Grey Dog announces Bowl Bound College Football

[Arles]

Here's the release. You can get more info by checking out the site and forums at http://www.greydogsoftware.com

Phoenix, AZ April 7, 2005 – Grey Dog Software, a Phoenix based developer of sports management simulation software for personal computers, today announced Bowl Bound College Football. BB is scheduled for a Q3 release and will be made available for digital download exclusively through Grey Dog Software for U.S. $34.95.

Tired of your alumni never getting to a bowl? Think a coach is past his prime? Or just tired of your team not getting the elite recruits? Then grab your playbook and prepare to challenge your football knowledge in Bowl Bound College Football. Critically acclaimed sports sim developer Arlie Rahn, lead developer of Total Pro Football 2004, Tournament Dreams College Basketball, and Coaching a Dynasty takes college football fans to the next level with professionally detailed game play, an in-depth recruiting process, an inntuitive, streamlined interface by Warholic Creative, and the most thorough AI to meet sport management sims.

Feature Set:

* Specialize in six distinct college offenses and seven college defenses
* Choose from 15 college-based offensive formations and 10 defensive formations
* Customizable playbook that can incorporate over 350 offensive and defensive plays
* Streamlined gameplan that makes use of your playbook preferences
* Accurate simulation engine
* In-depth recruiting process
* Full college budget involving college and recruit scouting, conditioning, assistant coaches, compliance and other main priorities
* Detailed play-by-play results that provide the actual play call, formations and specific results for better team management
* Full HTML reporting for both in-game and multiplayer use
* Online league management options

"I’m excited to announce we are planning to release Bowl Bound College Football in the third quarter,” said Arlie Rahn. "BB will provide an accurate sim engine, engaging interface and a great collection of features that should make the game a hit for both solo and multiplayer fans."

[Fritz]

congrats on the release, arles

[MizzouRah]

YES!!!!!!!!!!

Excellent news indeed!!!

I love TCY, after seeing TPB.. I'm anxious to see this one in action.


Todd

[EagleFan]

Sounds promising, will be keeping an eye on it.

[Suicane75]

Farrahs giving birth to a sports simulation!!@!

[Arles]

For those interested, here are a few screens as well:

http://www.greydogsoftware.com/bb/index.php?page=screens

Jason Warholic (wheels on this forum) is the designer.

[JeeberD]

Oooh, sounds very interesting...

[MizzouRah]

For those interested, here are a few screens as well:

http://www.greydogsoftware.com/bb/index.php?page=screens

Jason Warholic (wheels on this forum) is the designer.

He's good.... damn good.


Todd

[Balldog]

Wow, I like this idea :)

[sovereignstar]

Congratulations.. looks interesting

[wade moore]

If this was SP I would have no interest..

But it's MP.. so my interest is DEFINATELY piqued...

[Anthony]

ok, i'll take one please. :)

[Noop]

I knew it. I just hope you can make it equal to TCY stats wise but recruiting and other stuff should be easy to out-do.

[st.cronin]

If this was SP I would have no interest..

But it's MP.. so my interest is DEFINATELY piqued...

Agreed. Solecismic needs to get out a multi-player tcy!

[jbmagic]

YES!!!!!!!!!!

Excellent news indeed!!!

I love TCY, after seeing TPB.. I'm anxious to see this one in action.


Todd

Dont get too excited just yet.

Remember Total Pro Football By Arlie :)

Looks Promising. But i am going to make sure before i purchase it.

[Anthony]

this game sounds awesome. hope micromanagement is kept under control. about time some new text sim games were announced.

[Cuckoo]

Looks great. I'll definitely be keeping my eye on this. I loved TCY when it first came out, but the recruiting grew tedious to me.

Congrats on the two coming new releases Arles!

[MizzouRah]

Dont get too excited just yet.

Remember Total Pro Football By Arlie :)

Lots to be excited about jb. Would you harp on EA after that crappy NCAA 2005 college football release? :)


Todd

[cartman]

If it does indeed have good multiplayer...

:drool:

[Ben E Lou]

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jbmagic
</td> <td class="alt2" title="Replies: 0, Views: 1"> Today 12:41 PM
by jbmagic (http://www.greydogsoftware.com/forum/member.php?find=lastposter&t=2961) http://www.greydogsoftware.com/forum/images/buttons/lastpost.gif (http://www.greydogsoftware.com/forum/showthread.php?goto=lastpost&t=2961)
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Arlie Rahn
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by Arlie Rahn (http://www.greydogsoftware.com/forum/member.php?find=lastposter&t=2960) http://www.greydogsoftware.com/forum/images/buttons/lastpost.gif (http://www.greydogsoftware.com/forum/showthread.php?goto=lastpost&t=2960)
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[sabotai]

Lots to be excited about jb. Would you harp on EA after that crappy NCAA 2005 college football release? :)

Yes. In fact because of NCAA Football 2005, the 2006 game went from auto-buy to wait and see.

Anyway. The screens look nice. I hope the "Update" button on the title screen is what I think it is (It looks for and installs patches?). That'd be super-nice.

[jbmagic]

<table class="tborder" style="border-bottom-width: 0px;" align="center" border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="1" width="100%"> <tbody><tr><td class="tcat" width="100%">Threads in Forum: Bowl Bould Suggestions</td> <td style="cursor: pointer;" class="vbmenu_control" id="forumtools">Forum Tools (http://www.greydogsoftware.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=54#goto_forumtools) <script type="text/javascript"> vbmenu_register("forumtools"); </script>http://www.greydogsoftware.com/forum/images/misc/menu_open.gif</td> <td style="cursor: pointer;" class="vbmenu_control" id="forumsearch">Search this Forum (http://www.greydogsoftware.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=54#goto_forumsearch) <script type="text/javascript"> vbmenu_register("forumsearch"); </script>http://www.greydogsoftware.com/forum/images/misc/menu_open.gif</td> </tr> </tbody> </table> <table class="tborder" align="center" border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="1" width="100%"> <tbody><tr> <td class="thead" colspan="2"> </td> <td class="thead" width="100%"> Rating (http://www.greydogsoftware.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=54&daysprune=-1&order=desc&sort=voteavg) Thread (http://www.greydogsoftware.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=54&daysprune=-1&order=asc&sort=title) / Thread Starter (http://www.greydogsoftware.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=54&daysprune=-1&order=asc&sort=postusername) </td> <td class="thead" align="center" nowrap="nowrap" width="150">Last Post (http://www.greydogsoftware.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=54&daysprune=-1&order=desc&sort=lastpost) http://www.greydogsoftware.com/forum/images/buttons/sortasc.gif (http://www.greydogsoftware.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=54&daysprune=-1&order=asc&sort=lastpost&pp=20&page=1)</td> <td class="thead" align="center" nowrap="nowrap">Replies (http://www.greydogsoftware.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=54&daysprune=-1&order=desc&sort=replycount) </td> <td class="thead" align="center" nowrap="nowrap">Views (http://www.greydogsoftware.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=54&daysprune=-1&order=desc&sort=views) </td> </tr> <!-- show threads --> <tr> <td class="alt1">http://www.greydogsoftware.com/forum/images/statusicon/thread.gif</td> <td class="alt2">http://www.greydogsoftware.com/forum/images/icons/icon1.gif</td> <td class="alt1Active" id="t2961" title="Some Suggestions. Injuries Slider. customize League size Random Fictional Players. so when you start a new league, the players created are random and different everytime. you can sub players in and out for play by play games."> What is Bowl Bould? (http://www.greydogsoftware.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2961)
jbmagic
</td> <td class="alt2" title="Replies: 0, Views: 1"> Today 12:41 PM
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Arlie Rahn
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you sure like picking on me always. geez. Can you please stop.

i Honestly didnt know what it was Until i read this thread. i just went directly into the grey dog forum only. sorry

[QuikSand]

Sounds encouraging -- good news!

[SirFozzie]

Hey Arlie?

Just a heads up.. I'd look at making sure you don't conflict with the old Avalon Hill (I think) Bowl Bound board game (college football as well)

[cartman]

Also from the screenshots, it appears it won't be a NCAA licensed product. Will there be the ability to change names and logos?

[Danny]

Also from the screenshots, it appears it won't be a NCAA licensed product. Will there be the ability to change names and logos?

Yes, I am sure you will be able to change names and logos.

[jbmagic]

Also from the screenshots, it appears it won't be a NCAA licensed product. Will there be the ability to change names and logos?

i pretty sure it will be from 3rd party people that wil have to make roster and names and logos.

that how they have Total Pro Basketball.

[jbmagic]

Arlie has a suggestion forum.

please go there and post your suggestion for this game.

http://www.greydogsoftware.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=54

and he has a discussion forum for the game too.

http://www.greydogsoftware.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=53

[Ksyrup]

So it's twins, then, I take it?

[Franklinnoble]

So, can we export player files to FOF2k4 from this?

Seriously... why can't this happen?

[digamma]

I'm a sucker for college football games.

[Arles]

Hey Arlie?

Just a heads up.. I'd look at making sure you don't conflict with the old Avalon Hill (I think) Bowl Bound board game (college football as well)
Yeah, we saw it listed on a trademark check when making sure the name was OK (I had never played it). The trademark has expired in 2002 and the name is fair game now. Does anyone know when this game was out - I don't even remember it?

[Arles]

Also from the screenshots, it appears it won't be a NCAA licensed product. Will there be the ability to change names and logos?
Yes on both fronts. We won't have a license, but there will be a lot of skinning and customization allowed.

[sabotai]

Yeah, we saw it listed on a trademark check when making sure the name was OK (I had never played it). The trademark has expired in 2002 and the name is fair game now. Does anyone know when this game was out - I don't even remember it?

On eBay there are two from 1978. There were probably versions of it released before and after that year, though.

[Anthony]

Yes on both fronts. We won't have a license, but there will be a lot of skinning and customization allowed.


YES!

University of Astoria Heroes.

[JeffNights]

Those screen shots look sexy as hell.

lol

I hope in this game you'll be able to edit players..at least names and hometowns...maybe ratings too?

[Arles]

On eBay there are two from 1978. There were probably versions of it released before and after that year, though.
Thanks, it was a little before my time then (considering I was 2) :D

[Arles]

Those screen shots look sexy as hell.

lol

I hope in this game you'll be able to edit players..at least names and hometowns...maybe ratings too?
you will have the ability to edit player info and ratings.

[JeffNights]

you will have the ability to edit player info and ratings.


<Rips credit card out of wallet!!!>


definite buy!

[st.cronin]

you will have the ability to edit player info and ratings.

ZOUNDS

[sovereignstar]

YES!

University of Astoria Heroes.

Your obsession with such a gay name is really amusing.

[Ben E Lou]

YES!

University of Astoria Heroes.New Class Offering:

How To Put The Ass In Classy 101

[Anthony]

New Class Offering:

How To Put The Ass In Classy 101

hey, the athletes need easy classes to pad their GPA with.

[dawgfan]

Thanks, it was a little before my time then (considering I was 2) :D

I've still got a copy of Bowl Bound. I can't remember if my copy used the Sports Illustrated branding or not (Avalon Hill had a deal with SI for a while, kind of like how ESPN licenses their branding for video games).

It was a fun little game, but at the time I had it in the late '70's/early '80's, the roster of teams in the game were already kind of stale (they were mainly '60's era teams).

The Strat-O-Matic college football games in '86 and '88 were godsends for me - too bad they weren't more popular and more weren't made.

[dawgfan]

Dola -

Looking forward to the demo. Hopefully this release will reignite the college football sim market - I played the hell out of TCY, but I'm finally done with it. Hopefully Arlie has been carefully monitering the "TCY Suggestion" thread...

[Franklinnoble]

So, can we export player files to FOF2k4 from this?

Seriously... why can't this happen?


Arlie... seriously... why can't this happen???

[Galaril]

Arles,
Sounds promising.Will there be the option to call plays at all?

[Arles]

Arles,
Sounds promising.Will there be the option to call plays at all?
Yeah, the game will also have over 350 college plays that you can add into your own playbook that will follow you from team to team. But playcalling will be a big part of BB.

[Galaril]

awesome.

[jbmagic]

Arles

i see we will have the ability to edit ratings.

will be simple, like can you enter a player stats and it will produce the ratings for you?

[WSUCougar]

I've still got a copy of Bowl Bound. I can't remember if my copy used the Sports Illustrated branding or not (Avalon Hill had a deal with SI for a while, kind of like how ESPN licenses their branding for video games).

It was a fun little game, but at the time I had it in the late '70's/early '80's, the roster of teams in the game were already kind of stale (they were mainly '60's era teams).
I have that old puppy too. The epic Notre Dame vs. Michigan State battles from - I think - 1966 were what dominate my memory of the game.

Breakaway!

Anyway, sounds cool Arlie. Good luck with it.

[JeffNights]

So, you can edit school names and players?
and MP?

who needs TCY2?? :)

[Danny]

Arles
will be simple, like can you enter a player stats and it will produce the ratings for you?

Football doesnt work like that. I assume you are referring to how OOTP handles it. Baseball is a game of statistics, a hitter and pitcher have a lot more control over their stats then do a receiver, runningback, cornerback, etc... In football you simply cant identify a player's ability by their stats.

[Arles]

I don't want to get too much in the specifics right now, but I hope the editing process will be fairly easy for the gamer. We will be coming out with a FAQ down the road and deal more with specific features then.

[Balldog]

I don't want to get too much in the specifics right now, but I hope the editing process will be fairly easy for the gamer. We will be coming out with a FAQ down the road and deal more with specific features then.

Cool, cuz once my baseball season is over I would love to start working on some rosters, logos, etc.

[Galaril]

wow 53 posts in less than an hour.

[Eaglesfan27]

I don't want to get too much in the specifics right now, but I hope the editing process will be fairly easy for the gamer. We will be coming out with a FAQ down the road and deal more with specific features then.
I think that is a very smart business decision.

Good luck with the project. I'll eagerly await reviews from trusted members here after release.

[JeeberD]

wow 53 posts in less than an hour.

I was expecting the thread to grow faster than that, actually...

[Ben E Lou]

I was expecting the thread to grow faster than that, actually...No one else posts as fast as you do though, Jeeber. http://dynamic2.gamespy.com/%7Efof/forums/images/smilies/tongue.gif

[Ben E Lou]

Heh. I just read jbmagic's post to me in this thread. I wasn't picking on him, just picking on Arlie/Grey Dog for the typo.

[condors]

looking forward to it

[cody8200]

I'm super excited about this game. I have always wanted a game like TCY with the easy on the eyes look of TPF. I think this is it.

[I. J. Reilly]

Yeah, the game will also have over 350 college plays that you can add into your own playbook that will follow you from team to team. But playcalling will be a big part of BB.
Play calling, thank the heavens above!!!!! These next months waiting for this game will seem endless.
Finally, my Beavers are going to kick some ass!
(I know, the mental imagery is a little disturbing)

[MizzouRah]

So it's twins, then, I take it?

I think, "Yes" is the answer.


Todd

[Honolulu Blue]

Congrats Arlie & company. I hope it's a great success for you.

Sounds promising. Don't expect me to be an early adopter though. I'm sure there will be a hundred trillion zillion posts on the game within three days of its release. If it's a good game and worth my time & money, those will tell me.

One question - what's the limit on multiplayer teams in one league? 117?

[Arles]

We haven't set a limit yet on MP league size. I think the testing phase will show us more on where that needs to be set (if at all).

[Franklinnoble]

Man, I hate being ignored.

[jbmagic]

Arles

can you sub players in and out when playing games out on the play by play screen?

will each college coach have a offense and defense style they will run there program?

[Arles]

Man, I hate being ignored.
There will be all kind of reports for recruits (ratings and stats) in BB, but I have no idea on how Jim does his imports.

[Arles]

Arles

can you sub players in and out when playing games out on the play by play screen?

will each college coach have a offense and defense style they will run there program?
Not sure how item 1 will work at this point, but the answer to question 2 is yes.

[sovereignstar]

Man, I hate being ignored.

Dude, your question is retarded. Or are you just waiting for Arlie to waste his time in coming up with a one-liner followed by the sticking tongue out smiley?

[albionmoonlight]

Will I be able to filibuster head coach appointments if I disagree with them? ;)

Seriously, I wish Grey Dog the very best of luck with this and look forward to seeing the finished product.

[dubb93]

Can you please go out of your way to make sure the micro-managing isn't as out of control as TCY. It almost ruins that game, I would love a college game without any, or with much less micro player managing.

[Anthony]

i for one do not want to manage what players do with their time. who am i to tell someone how much time to spend with their g/f? so yeah, the less micromanaging the better.

[cody8200]

i for one do not want to manage what players do with their time. who am i to tell someone how much time to spend with their g/f? so yeah, the less micromanaging the better.

Agreed but I would like academics to be partly my responsibility.

[Ajaxab]

I'll also support the micromanagement point made above. If there's one thing I just couldn't get past with TCY, it was allocating the hours for players every single season. Even with the utility that optimized the process, it was still a pain to bother with.

[TazFTW]

I didn't find the micromanaging in TCY to be that much of a burden. For the first season, when you had to adjust all the players? Yes, it was a little tiring but after that I just would set it for the incoming freshman (maybe adjust study hall to keep some returnees eligible).


Is there going to be a national letter of intent day or is it like TCY when players can commit whenever?

[I. J. Reilly]

I would love to see the ability to control substitutions during the game. Getting young players on the field is such a huge part of developing talent in college that I think it has to be reflected in any true simulation.
And in recruiting, the chance for early playing time should be a main selling point, along with prestige, location, etc.

[Arles]

All great ideas. Feel free to post them on the suggestions forum at the GreyDog site.

[KWhit]

I didn't find the micromanaging in TCY to be that much of a burden. For the first season, when you had to adjust all the players? Yes, it was a little tiring but after that I just would set it for the incoming freshman (maybe adjust study hall to keep some returnees eligible).
I disagree completely. The time adjusting (and the importance of how good your school is academically) is what has kept me from being able to enjoy TCY.

I don't want to know which players have girlfriends or how long their study hall is. I have no idea if a division 1 coach deals with that kind of thing, but I don't want to. That's just not fun to me.

[KWhit]

Something that I would like to see extra attention paid to is the difficulty for small schools (or schools from weak conferences) to compete with the big boys for national titles. After 2-3 years playing one of EA's NCAA games, TCU or Marshall or Louisville is playing for the national championship.

That really bothers me.

[Cap Ologist]

Arlie... seriously... why can't this happen???
I'm guessing that there will be a professional football simulation in the future from GDS.

[st.cronin]

Something that I would like to see extra attention paid to is the difficulty for small schools (or schools from weak conferences) to compete with the big boys for national titles. After 2-3 years playing one of EA's NCAA games, TCU or Marshall or Louisville is playing for the national championship.

That really bothers me.

The same thing often happens in tcy.

[G-Man]

Dont get too excited just yet.

Remember Total Pro Football By Arlie :)

Looks Promising. But i am going to make sure before i purchase it.

Yep this has tempered my excitement as well. Though I am glad that we will have another College Football Game to play. I certainly hope that we can make rosters for this unlike TCY! :cool:

[dubb93]

Something that I would like to see extra attention paid to is the difficulty for small schools (or schools from weak conferences) to compete with the big boys for national titles. After 2-3 years playing one of EA's NCAA games, TCU or Marshall or Louisville is playing for the national championship.

That really bothers me.

My experience with EA games is that starting in the second season it is almost impossible to keep TCU out of the national championship game. My last Dynasty on NCAA Football TCU appeared in 8-14 national championship games and lost all but one[lost most of them bad]. A couple of them was to my Mississippi State team. One game that stands out was against my Mississippi State team where they lost 73-3. They also had some 50+ point loses to Oklahoma. Not sure how someone would program it where that doesn't happen, would have to a HEAVY bias toward the major conferences and strength of schedule, b/c in real life undefeated teams like that still would have a hard time getting in a BCS bowl. Prehaps they could take talent level into consideration for undefeated schools in weak conferences to see if they really should be playing in a major bowl game?

[Comey]

I still really enjoy Total Pro Football, and still run an online league with it.

[GoldenEagle]

Arlie -

What are the future plans of GD? I like see different products and I understand them from a business viewpoint. . But let’s be honest - no first generation game is going to knock everyone off their feet. Are you going to alternate between TPF and the college product? I guess I am just curious and I am sure you really do not know yet. But look at successful text simulation companies like SI Games and Solecismic. They have stuck with one product and developed it from the ground up. The first versions were not spectacular but they added features each year to make it an outstanding product. I am probably just babbling, but I am curious.

[Franklinnoble]

Dude, your question is retarded. Or are you just waiting for Arlie to waste his time in coming up with a one-liner followed by the sticking tongue out smiley?
Dude, fuck off.

Jim's game can turn a properly formatted *.csv file into a game import. I see no reason why it would be terribly difficult to program Bowl Bound College Football to export a draft file in a compatible format. It's a serious question, and I'm asking it now while the game is still in development.

I like TCY, but I'd love to give this game a shot, and I'd love to be able to import players from it into FOF. If that's retarded, then change my handle to "Corky" and sign me up.

[JeeberD]

Why would he want to export files to the competition? Especially when GD almost certainly will have their own pro football game in the works at some point...

[Airhog]

I can hear the market share that Jim had slipping away. It will be interesting to see if jim is forced to put out a college game this year!

[Anthony]

Why would he want to export files to the competition? Especially when GD almost certainly will have their own pro football game in the works at some point...


ding ding ding.

i don't even know why this much time has been wasted on this bad idea. i hate having to humor imbeciles.

[Franklinnoble]

Why would he want to export files to the competition? Especially when GD almost certainly will have their own pro football game in the works at some point...
Why not? That would make an outstanding feature, and I really doubt it would cost them business - if anything, they would get more customers from the established FOF fanbase. It's a simple thing to do.

This is not unprecedented. MS Word can open WordPerfect files, and vice-versa. Shutting out the competition is stupid. Embracing it makes sense.

Is there some animosity between GD and Solecismic that I don't know about? Because Jim has always welcomed competition in this genre, and I doubt he'd object to this new game making .csv exports available to FOF customers.

[Anthony]

I can hear the market share that Jim had slipping away. It will be interesting to see if jim is forced to put out a college game this year!


i don't know if what Jim had could qualify as a market share when he had the only college football game in the market. he had the monopoly, he wasn't sharing anything with another game company in that genre. jim makes great games but he does have a tendency to stick to "his vision" (almost feels as if we had to twist his arm to get MP put into the latest FOF, fortunately it solid), so who's to say someone else's vision of college football is any less viable?

[panerd]

Dude, fuck off.

Jim's game can turn a properly formatted *.csv file into a game import. I see no reason why it would be terribly difficult to program Bowl Bound College Football to export a draft file in a compatible format. It's a serious question, and I'm asking it now while the game is still in development.

I like TCY, but I'd love to give this game a shot, and I'd love to be able to import players from it into FOF. If that's retarded, then change my handle to "Corky" and sign me up.

Sorry, but it was a really dumb question. Why would Jim or Arle make their games compatible? So Jim can lose TCY sales? So Arle's company can never design a Pro Football game? Just because they are friends on a message board and a random user wants compatibility they are supposed to cut into each others finances?

Why don't X-Box games work on my playstation? Why doesn't Ford make Camero parts?

[LionsFan10]

What's that you said? I will be beta testing? Cool.

[HomerJSimpson]

College game with play calling? I'm there. I just hope there is a lot less micromanaging, and the recruiting is done better than TCY.

[maximus]

Great to hear Arlie. Congrats on the baby and the new game. :)

[Franklinnoble]

Sorry, but it was a really dumb question. Why would Jim or Arle make their games compatible? So Jim can lose TCY sales? So Arle's company can never design a Pro Football game? Just because they are friends on a message board and a random user wants compatibility they are supposed to cut into each others finances?

Why don't X-Box games work on my playstation? Why doesn't Ford make Camero parts?
Why should Sony make a VCR that works with VHS tapes?

Think about it.

Why did Apple make a Windows iTunes client?

Cross platform compatibility is NOT a bad thing, and in this case, it'd be so easy to do, it's almost stupid not to.

But, whatever. All you fucktards think I'm a moron for suggesting it. Fine.

[Easy Mac]

I think to be accurate it would be as follows:

Sony making their Betamax compatible with VHS tapes.
Apple making their DRM compatible with Windows portables.

Doing one would inhibit their ability to make inroads into another area.

[GoldenEagle]

I think PureSim allows to import OOTP leagues, so Franklin is not too far off base here.

[JeeberD]

Import, not export.

Does PureSim export to OOTP as well?

[Zippo]

I think PureSim allows to import OOTP leagues, so Franklin is not too far off base here.
No, I don't think that went through.

[Franklinnoble]

I think to be accurate it would be as follows:

Sony making their Betamax compatible with VHS tapes.
Apple making their DRM compatible with Windows portables.

Doing one would inhibit their ability to make inroads into another area.
Sony lost their asses on Betamax... that was my point... their proprietary format got killed.

Apple has been bitten by their proprietary format before, but making iTunes for Windows was smart. Now I can buy an IPod without having to own a Mac.

Same here - I want to be able to buy BBCF without having to give up my FOF.

Chances are, I'd give the Grey Dog pro football product a shot, too... but I see no drawback to making the products play nice together - especially since it's a simple thing to generate a .csv file.

[jbmagic]

I think PureSim allows to import OOTP leagues, so Franklin is not too far off base here.


its was an idea. and Markus from ootp told him not to do it. and he said ok.

[timmynausea]

Sony lost their asses on Betamax... that was my point... their proprietary format got killed.

Apple has been bitten by their proprietary format before, but making iTunes for Windows was smart. Now I can buy an IPod without having to own a Mac.

Same here - I want to be able to buy BBCF without having to give up my FOF.

Chances are, I'd give the Grey Dog pro football product a shot, too... but I see no drawback to making the products play nice together - especially since it's a simple thing to generate a .csv file.
I would think it'd be trickier than it would seem just because the ratings could be different and the way the engines work could be completely different. Businesswise, it'd make sense because both games have the same fanbase. I'd think many or even most people that own one will own both. I doubt it'll ever happen, though.

[Dutch]

I'm wishing you all the best Arles. And with Wheels at the helm on the graphics, you can't go wrong. I know a couple of screenshots means nothing in the long run, but it looks very promising!

[Ben E Lou]

I'm wishing you all the best Arles. And with Wheels at the helm on the graphics, you can't go wrong. I know a couple of screenshots means nothing in the long run, but it looks very promising!Of course, there's one problem with the screenies: recruiting not happening in-season. I understand Arlie's reasons for doing it this way, but it isn't going to feel realistic at all this way.

[Icy]

Good news from GDS, i'm already counting the days to 3rd quarter!

[Easy Mac]

yeah, not too keen on that skydog

[HomerJSimpson]

Of course, there's one problem with the screenies: recruiting not happening in-season. I understand Arlie's reasons for doing it this way, but it isn't going to feel realistic at all this way.


No, it will be better. Spending long periods dealing with recruiting during the season might be "realistic," but it certainly was a fun killer. And honestly, signing day is a month after the last bowl game. It isn't totally unrealistic to put much of the recruiting emphasis after the season is over.

[Eaglesfan27]

Of course, there's one problem with the screenies: recruiting not happening in-season. I understand Arlie's reasons for doing it this way, but it isn't going to feel realistic at all this way.

I can understand Arlie's possible reasons for doing this as well, but this might be a deal breaker for me. I think a good college football sim needs in-season recruiting.

[HomerJSimpson]

I can understand Arlie's possible reasons for doing this as well, but this might be a deal breaker for me. I think a good college football sim needs in-season recruiting.


If you'll notice the way it is broken down, it does have in season recruiting (starting in the 10th week, and going to three weeks after the championship game).

[Eaglesfan27]

No, it will be better. Spending long periods dealing with recruiting during the season might be "realistic," but it certainly was a fun killer. And honestly, signing day is a month after the last bowl game. It isn't totally unrealistic to put much of the recruiting emphasis after the season is over.
That piece of realism is a big part of my suspension of disbelief that I look for in a good immersive sports sim. I think TCY's recruiting was a fun killer for some because it was so prevalent and relatively time consuming, but I think no in season recruiting would be a mistake. Why can't there be a balance of some in-season recruiting with a period after the season to finish off the recruiting?

[TazFTW]

If you'll notice the way it is broken down, it does have in season recruiting (starting in the 10th week, and going to three weeks after the championship game).


I think that is referring to weeks 10-19 of the offseason.

[HomerJSimpson]

That piece of realism is a big part of my suspension of disbelief that I look for in a good immersive sports sim. I think TCY's recruiting was a fun killer for some because it was so prevalent and relatively time consuming, but I think no in season recruiting would be a mistake. Why can't there be a balance of some in-season recruiting with a period after the season to finish off the recruiting?

Notice post above this one. By the timetable, there is in-season recruiting.

[Easy Mac]

i greatly enjoyed in season recruiting.

[HomerJSimpson]

I think that is referring to weeks 10-19 of the offseason.


You may be right. Not the way I read it. Oh, well. I still prefer the focus of recruiting outside of the season.

[Eaglesfan27]

Notice post above this one. By the timetable, there is in-season recruiting.
We cross-posted, I read your post after I posted mine. I still think earlier recruiting is an important part of the process.

[HomerJSimpson]

We cross-posted, I read your post after I posted mine. I still think earlier recruiting is an important part of the process.

We disagree then. I hated recruiting in TCY with the passion of 1,000 suns. I thought it (and lack of playcalling) severely took away from the immersion factor of TCY, and made the game one I played very little. Heck, BM annoys the crap out of me, and I've played it longer than TCY, and I'm a much bigger college football fan.

[Dutch]

Notice post above this one. By the timetable, there is in-season recruiting.

Intersting point.

The season doesn't end until week 21 and off-season recruiting is weeks 10-19.

I think we will need a clarification on how this works.

[HomerJSimpson]

Intersting point.

The season doesn't end until week 21 and off-season recruiting is weeks 10-19.

I think we will need a clarification on how this works.


Looking at it again, I think I was wrong.

[Buccaneer]

Of course, there's one problem with the screenies: recruiting not happening in-season. I understand Arlie's reasons for doing it this way, but it isn't going to feel realistic at all this way.
And that will be the one reason why I will be buying this game.

SD, why the grouchiness in this thread?

[Dutch]

We disagree then. I hated recruiting in TCY with the passion of 1,000 suns. I thought it (and lack of playcalling) severely took away from the immersion factor of TCY, and made the game one I played very little. Heck, BM annoys the crap out of me, and I've played it longer than TCY, and I'm a much bigger college football fan.

I could care less about play-calling but agree with the recruiting process. I didn't like it. In the real world, there is a lot of time during the week to deal with your current team and deal with your future team (recruiting).

In game it happens so fast it's kind of a let down to have to switch back and forth, especially when you are winning. I would not be opposed to seeing it seperated, at all.

In a perfect world, the player might even be given the option.

[Ben E Lou]

It isn't totally unrealistic to put much of the recruiting emphasis after the season is over.Yes, it is. Kids are being recruited NOW for next February's signing day. Junior days have already happened at several (if not all) SEC schools. *Tons* of recruits are heading to the G-Day game in Athens this weekend, and a bunch were there watching practice last weekend. Texas already has 16 verbals. Most top-tier teams will have 16-20 verbals by the time the season starts. The December-February period may have a few blue-chippers left in it, but most of the big schools will have their classes 70-90% full by then. For big schools, Dec-Feb. is spent mainly making sure all those verbals don't de-commit, and then focusing on the small handful of target guys left. I like the FBCB model of having a continuous calendar, especially for college football:

January 2005: finish Bowl (or playoff) section, recruiting for 2005 Signing Day

February 2005: Signing day, underclassmen declare for NFL Draft

March 2005: 2006 Junior Days, visits to high schools, verbal commits for Class of 2006 begin

April 2005: spring practice (work on new formations, some particularly smart incoming signees already enrolled in school and can practice, getting a boost in development, chance of injuries if you decide to have a spring game, but if you DO have one, can increase alumni donations and loyalty, injured players like Kregg Lumpkin get minimal/no boost in development)

May 2005: visits to high school spring practices to evaluate players (can't tell you how many guys I saw at Tucker's spring practice last year), find out if your returning players remain academically eligible for 2006

June 2005: summer training for current players and incoming freshmen, host summer camps for high schools (BIG boost in both propensity to sign with you and in accurate evaluation of talent)

July 2005: practice begins for fall, players can potentially get injured (see Kregg Lumpkin again), first "accurate" evaluation of football skills of incoming freshmen, more high school summer camps to woo/evaluate 2006 recruits

August-December 2005: play games and host official visits

[Ben E Lou]

And that will be the one reason why I will be buying this game.

SD, why the grouchiness in this thread?Not sure where I'm grouchy... I haven't posted that much, have I?

[Ben E Lou]

I'm not disagreeing that happens, but TCY didn't show that, either.I know. That's one of my two primary beefs with it.

[HomerJSimpson]

Yes, it is. Kids are being recruited NOW for next February's signing day. Junior days have already happened at several (if not all) SEC schools. *Tons* of recruits are heading to the G-Day game in Athens this weekend, and a bunch were there watching practice last weekend. Texas already has 16 verbals. Most top-tier teams will have 16-20 verbals by the time the season starts. The December-February period may have a few blue-chippers left in it, but most of the big schools will have their classes 70-90% full by then. For big schools, Dec-Feb. is spent mainly making sure all those verbals don't de-commit, and then focusing on the small handful of target guys left. I like the FBCB model of having a continuous calendar, especially for college football:

January 2005: finish Bowl (or playoff) section, recruiting for 2005 Signing Day

February 2005: Signing day, underclassmen declare for NFL Draft

March 2005: 2006 Junior Days, visits to high schools, verbal commits for Class of 2006 begin

April 2005: spring practice (work on new formations, some particularly smart incoming signees already enrolled in school and can practice, getting a boost in development, chance of injuries if you decide to have a spring game, but if you DO have one, can increase alumni donations and loyalty, injured players like Kregg Lumpkin get minimal/no boost in development)

May 2005: visits to high school spring practices to evaluate players (can't tell you how many guys I saw at Tucker's spring practice last year), find out if your returning players remain academically eligible for 2006

June 2005: summer training for current players and incoming freshmen, host summer camps for high schools (BIG boost in both propensity to sign with you and in accurate evaluation of talent)

July 2005: practice begins for fall, players can potentially get injured (see Kregg Lumpkin again), first "accurate" evaluation of football skills of incoming freshmen, more high school summer camps to woo/evaluate 2006 recruits

August-December 2005: play games and host official visits

I'm not disagreeing that happens, but TCY didn't show that, either. So, you're trading one unrealistic model for another. A unrealistic model that allows me to keep in the game versus one that takes away from it is a no brainer to me.

[MizzouRah]

Must be nice being a sports sim programmer. The f'n game isn't much but two screenies and an announcement and already people are saying, "It's a dealbreaker for me for x or x, blah this feature and that feature".

I actually dread having recruiting during the season in TCY. I look foward to getting it done just so I can play a game. Heck FBCB is pretty much done in the offseason unless you can't sign a guy or two.


Todd

[Buccaneer]

I agree with Homer's view. It may be somewhat unrealistic but I guess gamers like compartmentalization to focus on a major task at a time. Playing these types of games does involve some suspension from reality, if not for its abstractness alone, so why not make it better for the gamer to play? FBCB does this very well where from July-Oct is nothing but recruiting. It does overlay into the season a little but most of the recruiting is done before you have to concentrate on training and playing the season.

One of the main beefs I had with TCY was the unrealistic travel model for recruiting (visit costs). I understand why but if I was going to have to do recruiting within season, at least tie them together better. Since it was like playing two different games at the same time, it got to be a drag.

SD, just a perception, sorry.

[Buccaneer]

I see that Todd said the same thing while I was typing. I have no idea how college hoops recruiting is done in real life. All I know is that the way it is done in FBCB is about perfect for playing the game.

[sovereignstar]

Lest me not forget that Jim's next game was said to be released around summertime and there's a good chance that it will be TCY 2.

[Ben E Lou]

Must be nice being a sports sim programmer. The f'n game isn't much but two screenies and an announcement and already people are saying, "It's a dealbreaker for me for x or x, blah this feature and that feature".From my observations, it would seem that now is the *exact* time to be giving this sort of feedback. Given that the only announcement date is "third quarter," it is safe to assume that the game isn't in beta yet. Seems like now's the time to give feedback.

[Eaglesfan27]

From my observations, it would seem that now is the *exact* time to be giving this sort of feedback. Given that the only announcement date is "third quarter," it is safe to assume that the game isn't in beta yet. Seems like now's the time to give feedback.

I totally agree.

[Buccaneer]

Lest me not forget that Jim's next game was said to be released around summertime and there's a good chance that it will be TCY 2.
It is my guess that we will see the same thing in TCY2 as we saw going from FOF4 to FOF5.

[Dutch]

From my observations, it would seem that now is the *exact* time to be giving this sort of feedback. Given that the only announcement date is "third quarter," it is safe to assume that the game isn't in beta yet. Seems like now's the time to give feedback.

Very true.

As for recruiting, I can't think of an instance (or at least, haven't experienced it) where college recruiting is seperated from the football season part of a simulation. It's something many people have asked for (myself included), so it's all theory on how well it works at this point.

[Dutch]

It is my guess that we will see the same thing in TCY2 as we saw going from FOF4 to FOF5.

Perhaps, and wouldn't it be interesting to have a MP College Football League feeding into IHOF? :)

[Franklinnoble]

Perhaps, and wouldn't it be interesting to have a MP College Football League feeding into IHOF? :)
Just what we need... 117 more elitists...

[MizzouRah]

From my observations, it would seem that now is the *exact* time to be giving this sort of feedback. Given that the only announcement date is "third quarter," it is safe to assume that the game isn't in beta yet. Seems like now's the time to give feedback.

I sure he has most of the game engine intact - and thinking of changing the recruiting model might be more work than you think. Although I just wanted to let him know I like his idea better than doing it during the season, I'd rather concentrate on my games.

I didn't mean to come off like an ass, sorry.


Todd

[sovereignstar]

Perhaps, and wouldn't it be interesting to have a MP College Football League feeding into IHOF? :)

*mumbles to self*

fucking elitists
;)

Edit: Stupid timestamp bug makes me look like I was late to the punch.

[wade moore]

Just what we need... 117 more elitists...

This reminds me of something brought up in a thread some time ago..

Do you think even this community could support a league of 117 people? I don't know that it could... I don't know that we even have 117 unique individuals playing in FOF Leagues.. sure we have 117 teams, but many of them are one owner with mutiple teams..

This is the potential big downfall of MP imo.

[Anthony]

I could care less about play-calling but agree with the recruiting process. I didn't like it. In the real world, there is a lot of time during the week to deal with your current team and deal with your future team (recruiting).

In game it happens so fast it's kind of a let down to have to switch back and forth, especially when you are winning. I would not be opposed to seeing it seperated, at all.

In a perfect world, the player might even be given the option.

i agree, i didn't like the switching back and forth between caring about my present team and going after my future team. i think i'd like it the way Arles has it - with recruiting getting its own allotment of attention, and not having to come at the expense of your current season.

[cartman]

This reminds me of something brought up in a thread some time ago..

Do you think even this community could support a league of 117 people? I don't know that it could... I don't know that we even have 117 unique individuals playing in FOF Leagues.. sure we have 117 teams, but many of them are one owner with mutiple teams..

This is the potential big downfall of MP imo.


We have almost 50 human owners in the FOFC FBCB league. I think we could easily get 75 to 80 in a college football multiplayer league.

[Lucky Jim]

Personally I'd be a huge fan of incorporating high school juniors into the recruiting mix if it's going to be done offseason. As SD has mentioned those are the majority of the guys that are being looked at during this timeframe. Having "two years" of evaluating and pursuing might create a lot more depth to the side game that is recruiting. As it stands with TCY, and even FBCB, there just isn't much of an attachment to recruits and the process happens much too quickly to really get a feeling of exctiement or disappointment about a player. Recruiting for me in these type games has always gotten incredibly mechanical, simply moving on to the next guy if someone drops or moving on to the next need if someone commits, I don't feel like I ever get any sort of attachment to these guys until they're on my roster. Something like this might give a greater feel for the player universe as well. You know and are involved with more players and keeping tabs on them might prevent that "on an island" feeling that creeps into solo careers. This may be too difficult to implement, but it would be interesting to try and might bridge the gap some between the realists and convenience-ists (yeah i made that up).

The biggest problem with this might be the first year of a career, where there are senior recruits that would need to have some level of junior year recruiting pre-generated. Players might be frustrated by a feeling of not having enough control over their first year of recruiting. Just some thoughts. Congrats on both fronts Arles.

[Abe Sargent]

We have almost 50 human owners in the FOFC FBCB league. I think we could easily get 75 to 80 in a college football multiplayer league.


Plus you'd get new peops. I only play TPF online, and just one league, but give me WVU and I'd be willing to jump onto a huge MP league in seconds. There's a lot of players out there like me.

-Anxiety

[st.cronin]

Plus you'd get new peops. I only play TPF online, and just one league, but give me WVU and I'd be willing to jump onto a huge MP league in seconds. There's a lot of players out there like me.

-Anxiety

I think college football has more fans than the nfl.

[JimboJ]

Arle, please, please, please, PLEASE allow an option to play a tournanment to determine the national championship. Don't make us be stuck with that ridiculous BCS system. I think that would be a deal breaker for me.

[HomerJSimpson]

Arle, please, please, please, PLEASE allow an option to play a tournanment to determine the national championship. Don't make us be stuck with that ridiculous BCS system. I think that would be a deal breaker for me.


Or make it ultra-realistic. Make it a BCS system, then change the BCS rules every year to "improve" it, and every year make the results still suck.

[Dutch]

IRT Fucking Elitists--trust me, if I can end up being a fucking elitist, anybody who likes to ramble enough to gather 2 or 3 thousand mindless posts over the course of 5 years or so can become a fucking elitist. :)

[DeToxRox]

I'd join a MP college football league with any team you offer. I think it'd be a blast.

[dubb93]

I hate to keep harping, but I kinda like the in-season recruiting in TCY. It was one of the only things that kept me going on that game. The only way I would trade in-season recruiting is if it was done BEFORE the season. I would like to know what my next years team was going to look like, kinda like in FBCB. Recruiting after the season would be a bad idea.

[Suicane75]

I call dibs on Colgate. Booyah.

[dubb93]

I call dibs on Colgate. Booyah.

They even D-1? Or are you calling a member of the GreyDog 8?

[Suicane75]

They even D-1? Or are you calling a member of the GreyDog 8?

Crap. Fine, i'll take Miami then.

[cartman]

I'll take the Longhorns.

I just might start to lay the groundwork for an FOFC online league. I've been dreaming of this for a long time. Back in the Prodigy days (late 80s, early 90s) I used to run an online league with All American College Football by Microleague Sports. There was no career mode, so we each picked a team and scheduled a season with that year's team. That was a blast.

So... to get the early ball rolling, if you are interested, PM me. The structure that I'm thinking about is an overall Commish, and if we have enough people, then a commish for each of the conferences as well. If I get a bunch of responses, I'll even get a board up and going.

Hopefully we aren't going to hype this up so much that it can't possibly meet expectations, but as we've found in most multi-player leagues, that the human element far outweighs any AI inconstencies.

[sovereignstar]

I'll take the Longhorns.

I just might start to lay the groundwork for an FOFC online league. I've been dreaming of this for a long time. Back in the Prodigy days (late 80s, early 90s) I used to run an online league with All American College Football by Microleague Sports. There was no career mode, so we each picked a team and scheduled a season with that year's team. That was a blast.

So... to get the early ball rolling, if you are interested, PM me. The structure that I'm thinking about is an overall Commish, and if we have enough people, then a commish for each of the conferences as well. If I get a bunch of responses, I'll even get a board up and going.

Hopefully we aren't going to hype this up so much that it can't possibly meet expectations, but as we've found in most multi-player leagues, that the human element far outweighs any AI inconstencies.

We should call this the FOF Legends League.

*ducks*

[Buccaneer]

...and potentially an incredible amount of work for commissioners of said leagues.

[cartman]

Of course, if TCY2 gets announced, and has multiplayer, there will be a parallel league.

[sovereignstar]

Seriously though. Third Quarter (and notice not Summer of 2005) means August at the earliest to me. Are you really going to start laying down the framework (for a league) for a game that is at least 4 months away?

I might puke if this thread turns into a 'I've got Team X' thread.

[sabotai]

I've got Team X!!!

[WSUCougar]

It's just my opinion, but you guys crack me up when you say you hated the recruiting in TCY because it interfered with playing the game. The recruiting is the foundation of the game!

[cartman]

Seriously though. Third Quarter (and notice not Summer of 2005) means August at the earliest to me. Are you really going to start laying down the framework for a game that is at least 4 months away?

I might puke if this thread turns into a 'I've got Team X' thread.


That's why I said PM me.... :D

I've already got several PMs, so I am going to get a bulletin board setup over the weekend. That way we can keep the bulk of the traffic over there, and not clutter this pristine place up too much... :D

[Suicane75]

Bitch, Bitch, Bitch, Bitch, Bitch, Bitch, Bitch, Bitch, Bitch, Bitch, Bitch, Bitch, Bitch, Bitch, Bitch, Bitch, Bitch, Bitch, Bitch, Bitch, Bitch, Bitch, Bitch, Bitch, Bitch, Bitch, Bitch, Bitch, Bitch, Bitch, Bitch, Bitch,

Don't worry, i've already reserved North Dakota Tech State for you.

[sovereignstar]

I'll consider PMing you in five months.

[sovereignstar]

Don't worry, i've already reserved North Dakota Tech State for you.

You know what?

http://squeat.com/images/spoon.jpg

http://www.gdusa.com/issue_2004/04_apr/seen/_pic/Skippy-Peanut-Butter-Jars.jpg

[cartman]

I'll consider PMing you in five months.

By that time, St. Mary's School of The Afoci Most Blessed-North Dakota Campus might already be taken...

:D

[sovereignstar]

By that time, St. Mary's School of The Afoci Most Blessed-North Dakota Campus might already be taken...

:D

PM sent

[stevew]

If the game is solid, with few flaws, I'd definately be down to join some online league. But honestly, I'm not even gonna think about it till this bitch is 99% complete and ready to release. And chances are, with the differing viewpoints here at FOFC(I'd probably prefer a much quicker league than some), Surely there will be several leagues to choose from. And If its a quality product, Im sure there will be multiple leagues.

And also, while we are on the GDS topic, anyone in a good TPB2k5 league with openings? Pm me, or post a link here

[Airhog]

I have to agree with SteveW here. I refuse to jump into anything before the game is released. What if for some unforseeable reason, they have to scrap MP this year? Unlikely? Yes But this game isnt even close to being released yet.

[cartman]

Im pretty sure all Cartman is doing is reserving teams for the future, that way when the time comes that part is all set. It's not like if it doesnt come to fruition we'll have thrown 1000 man hours away.

Yep, that's all it is at this stage. It never hurts to get the framework ready, so that when it does come time to throw the switch, we aren't starting from complete scratch.

[Suicane75]

I have to agree with SteveW here. I refuse to jump into anything before the game is released. What if for some unforseeable reason, they have to scrap MP this year? Unlikely? Yes But this game isnt even close to being released yet.

Im pretty sure all Cartman is doing is reserving teams for the future, that way when the time comes that part is all set. It's not like if it doesnt come to fruition we'll have thrown 1000 man hours away.

[sovereignstar]

Im pretty sure all Cartman is doing is reserving teams for the future, that way when the time comes that part is all set. It's not like if it doesnt come to fruition we'll have thrown 1000 man hours away.

True, but when a team like Texas is taken.. well does anyone else like Texas? Then a new league starts 4-5 months down the road. Well, I'll see you later first league. Repeat, then repeat...

[Adamski47]

If anyone would like to get used to Arlie's interface if you haven't already NFLsim (using TPF) has an opening for the New Orleans Saints.

Sorry to threadjack but I'm only interested in passionate GMs and it appears this thread is packed with them.

We also have an opening with the Arizona Cardinals.

We are entering Week 2 of the 2006 season and are the top TPF NFL league on the net hands down with GM participation (and creativity) second to none. That is a promise.

www.nflsim.net

Email me at [email protected] if you are interested.

[Adamski47]

Oh, and way to go Arlie I know our guys will be anxiously awaiting this release especially if we can somehow import draft files back into TPF (long shot)?

Good luck!

[Suicane75]

True, but when a team like Texas is taken.. well does anyone else like Texas? Then a new league starts 4-5 months down the road. Well, I'll see you later first league. Repeat, then repeat...

Thats gonna happen wether he starts now or then.

[Arles]

Of course, there's one problem with the screenies: recruiting not happening in-season. I understand Arlie's reasons for doing it this way, but it isn't going to feel realistic at all this way.
I've talked with Ben about this, but I will let everyone in on the reasons for splitting our recruiting from the in-season. Through talks with different people and my own experiences, asking a commish or solo gamer to manage an inseason process with recruiting is just too much to handle for most people. If we set it up that way, gamers would have to set depth charts, update their play books and gameplans on their matchup (plus more advance scouting), monitor the change in HS stats and JC recruits very closely, setup recruiting allocations, watch academics, monitor stats and deal with scholarships EACH week. That's just too much and would make the game more "work" than "fun" - especially for a poor commish (imagine having 40-50 teams, maybe even more).

In reality, much of the recruiting is done in the summer before the season as coaches are simply too busy to get involved during the season. And, of course, LOI's are signed in the Feb after the season.

It seems to me that in a lot of college games (including TDCB), you do everything during the season and then take a deep breath and breeze through the offseason before undertaking massive micromanagement the next season. So, I felt that having the active recruiting actions start after the season would break up the work for commissioners, as well as make the game flow a little better. In this setup, you handle non-conf scheduling, redshirts, off/def strategy and budgets in the "Camp" stage. Then, you turn your focus to winning games, gameplans, playbooks, monitoring your players and keeping a bird's eye view on recruits in the "Season" stage. Finally, in the Offseason, you adjust your staff, look for college transfers, take recruiting actions and setup a summer training program before starting the cycle over again.

Now, this is just my opinion, but I think this process makes each stage something to look forward to, yet nothing to really "dread". And, for both solo and multiplayer, it is very important to having people enjoy playing the game. I think the game will have a very real feel to it as you will get information on recruit breakdowns from Camp to the season and into the offseason. This process just helps break up the work to make the game more manageable to play.

[Arles]

Oh, and way to go Arlie I know our guys will be anxiously awaiting this release especially if we can somehow import draft files back into TPF (long shot)?

Good luck!
I would say that's not as much of a longshot as you may think ;)

[cody8200]

I would say that's not as much of a longshot as you may think ;)

Awesome!

[jbmagic]

Arles

you going to look at all the suggestions and ideas people want for TCY2.

http://dynamic2.gamespy.com/%7Efof/forums/showthread.php?t=10764&highlight=tcy2

that might give you ideas for your new college football game.

[Honolulu Blue]

Thanks for answering my question, Arlie.

Count me as one of the minority who generally liked TCY's recruiting. Sure it had its problems, but I didn't mind switching back & forth between recruiting and games.

[Ben E Lou]

I've talked with Ben about this, but I will let everyone in on the reasons for splitting our recruiting from the in-season. I've decided to dumb down the process to accomodate the weenies who don't really want a realistic sim of running a college football program.Fixed that for you, Arlie. http://dynamic2.gamespy.com/%7Efof/forums/images/smilies/tongue.gif

[Ben E Lou]

Dola:

I'm done giving Arlie a hard time about this now, but that was just TOO easy. :D

In all seriousness, my suggestion would keep most of the recruiting process for elite schools in the Feb-August timeframe (because they'd get most of their commits by the time the season began, and then just do maintenance/mopup during the season), and for bottom-tier schools in the Jan-Feb timeframe (because few/no kids commit to them until then). You could really choose when you do your recruiting by what kind of school you take. In FBCB, when I get up in the 80 and above Prestige, I've got most/all of my class either signed or virtually locked up by the time December 1 rolls around, but when I'm starting a career as Savannah State, I'm usually spending the months after I'm done playing 28 games on recruiting. When I'm in the 40ish-80ish range in Prestige, it is a mix of before season, in-season, and after the season. A number of text sim developers could learn from that game; any game that Buc and I actually *agree* is the best one-more-turn sports game around deserves a look. ;)

[stevew]

If we are talking online league, I would rather have recruiting done during the season, simultaneously with the games, so that each season could be completed much more quickly. For solo play, i'd probably like Recruiting to be separated, so that i dont have to focus on that when im in "game playing mode."

[Arles]

The problem with Sky Dog's suggestion is that it would be extremely difficult to manage for online leagues - ie, making the recruiting process essentially go from Feb to the next Feb would make seasons take eons in MP leagues.

Also, I don't think changing when the recruiting occurs equates a "dumbing down" of the process. It's not like I am making recruiting done in one week with all your recruits preset for you ;)

I understand not everyone loves this change I've made at this point, but I would say to wait until the game comes out and see how it goes. Skydog mentions FBCB and some of you have mentioned other games ranging from TDCB to TCY to CM/FM. Each of these games have things added to make the game play better that might not reflect real life 100%. It's a delicate balance trying to make a game both realistic, but also fun. I mean, in real life, a college football coach has to sign off on about 70-100 report cards numerous times during the season. And I don't see that being something most gamers would want to deal with ;)

[Ben E Lou]

The problem with Sky Dog's suggestion is that it would be extremely difficult to manage for online leagues - ie, making the recruiting process essentially go from Feb to the next Feb would make seasons take eons in MP leagues.Why? Wouldn't you upload everything in your export (recruiting and gameplan during the season, for example)? During the season, there'd be a stage per week, and during the offseason, a stage per month. I'm no programmer, but that seems like less stages...

[Anthony]

The problem with Sky Dog's suggestion is that it would be extremely difficult to manage for online leagues - ie, making the recruiting process essentially go from Feb to the next Feb would make seasons take eons in MP leagues.

Also, I don't think changing when the recruiting occurs equates a "dumbing down" of the process. It's not like I am making recruiting done in one week with all your recruits preset for you ;)

I understand not everyone loves this change I've made at this point, but I would say to wait until the game comes out and see how it goes. Skydog mentions FBCB and some of you have mentioned other games ranging from TDCB to TCY to CM/FM. Each of these games have things added to make the game play better that might not reflect real life 100%. It's a delicate balance trying to make a game both realistic, but also fun. I mean, in real life, a college football coach has to sign off on about 70-100 report cards numerous times during the season. And I don't see that being something most gamers would want to deal with ;)

that nerd QS would love to do that. :p

[Anthony]

Why? Wouldn't you upload everything in your export (recruiting and gameplan during the season, for example)? During the season, there'd be a stage per week, and during the offseason, a stage per month. I'm no programmer, but that seems like less stages...

SD's problem, as is most of the people from IHOF, is that they aren't really seasoned vets when it comes to MP leagues, and have a big problem being able to accept that you have to make sacrifices to your normal solo style of play in order to make things work in MP.

when recruiting starts is not a deal breaker. as long as it works right, is not a chore, one can get enjoyment out of doing it and there isn't micromanagement i don't see the need to beat this issue into the ground. i don't know if you remember or not, but for as good as TCY was/is - a lot of it felt like *work*.

i'm sure if/when TCY2 comes out you could play that one doing it Jim's way, not exactly sure why you have to pigeonhole every game developer into *one* way of doing things.

i for one like being able to separate the two stages, i was never able to get into TCY although i hear Jim made enough improvements to it over time.

[KWhit]

SD's problem, as is most of the people from IHOF, is that they aren't really seasoned vets when it comes to MP leagues, and have a big problem being able to accept that you have to make sacrifices to your normal solo style of play in order to make things work in MP.
Huh?

[VPI97]

Huh? I'll translate:

Hey look! Another opportunity to badmouth the people in IHOF! Cool!

[Arles]

Why? Wouldn't you upload everything in your export (recruiting and gameplan during the season, for example)? During the season, there'd be a stage per week, and during the offseason, a stage per month. I'm no programmer, but that seems like less stages...
The problem is the time it takes to be in a league for the team owners and commish. If you have to worry about recruiting every week of the season (in addition to the other tasks), it significantly increases the time for individual coaches. Instead of only having to gameplan your opponent and make a few depth chart changes, you have to also spend a lot of time scouting recruits, updating actions and dealing with scholarships. In the camp phase, instead of just scheduling opponents and focusing on your off/def focus, you have to also do all the recruiting stuff and so on.

In essence, instead of grouping most of the recruiting activities (ie, actions and scholarship) in one phase (10-15 weeks) where most people can concentrate on them, you are significantly extending the process. You are making it now take 30-52 weeks, with each week requiring a certain amount of effort until all your players have signed. Imagine waiting 40+ "weeks" for 50-60 owners to do all their normal work plus recruiting. With all the outside commitments most people have, it could take a real long time to sim a season.

when recruiting starts is not a deal breaker. as long as it works right, is not a chore, one can get enjoyment out of doing it and there isn't micromanagement i don't see the need to beat this issue into the ground.
This is the response I was hoping for from more people. My thinking was that if the recruiting process is engaging, fun and challenging, the location of the process on a calender hopefully won't be a big issue.

And, again, you will be able to follow the progress of the recruits in season and start thinking about you would like to target. You just won't be able to take "actions" to recruit them until after the season.

[Balldog]

Exactly. If the recruiting is good, it doesn't matter to me if it is in season or post season.

[albionmoonlight]

FWIW, I like to compartmentalize, so I like recuiting being a separate area. My favorite part of any sim is game play, and I like the season to be almost entirely gameplay. I like recuiting, drafting, free agenting, training, etc. to be separate from gameplay.

[Cuckoo]

Those who know me from multiplayer leagues know that I am typically a major "realism" kind of person. In solo play, I always play with real teams and real players, and if I can't have that, I'm not interested in the game.

However, in this case, I must agree with Arles. Put me in the camp that has no problem (in fact, sees an advantage certainly in MP) in having recruiting during the offseason, even though that's not necessarily "realistic."

[Ben E Lou]

The problem is the time it takes to be in a league for the team owners and commish. If you have to worry about recruiting every week of the season (in addition to the other tasks), it significantly increases the time for individual coaches. Instead of only having to gameplan your opponent and make a few depth chart changes, you have to also spend a lot of time scouting recruits, updating actions and dealing with scholarships.But here's the thing: gameplanning and depth chart changes take a very minimal amount of time. In IHOF, I spend maybe 5 minutes twice a real-time week on gameplanning and depth chart changes, and nearly everyone has reported similar activity. How long could recruiting take each week? 10-15 minutes maybe? Two 15-20 minute sessions per real-time week isn't that bad of a commitment at all. (Now, maybe in a college game you'd do three game weeks per real-time week because there'd be no need for FA signings in between game stages.)

In the camp phase, instead of just scheduling opponents and focusing on your off/def focus, you have to also do all the recruiting stuff and so on.But again, how long does it take to schedule an opponent per session, and deciding what to focus on? That's a *very* short amount of time, I'd imagine.

Imagine waiting 40+ "weeks" for 50-60 owners to do all their normal work plus recruiting. With all the outside commitments most people have, it could take a real long time to sim a season. Ok, I'm still confused. According to your screenie, there are 47 stages in a BBCF season. My suggestion would require 30-35 stages, assuming sticking with your 21 weeks for Sept-Dec, then one, MAYBE two, stages per month for Jan-Aug.

I'm not trying to tease or give you a hard time anymore, I'm truly trying to understand how the way it is being done is even more streamlined, because it is *definitely* unrealistic.

If I'm going to take the time to commit to a multiplayer league, I don't think it unreasonable at all to commit to 3 20-minute gaming sessions per real-time week, which, unless I *REALLY* am missing something, is what I'm proposing.

[DanGarion]

Arlie... seriously... why can't this happen???
...

[Anthony]

This is the response I was hoping for from more people. My thinking was that if the recruiting process is engaging, fun and challenging, the location of the process on a calender hopefully won't be a big issue.

And, again, you will be able to follow the progress of the recruits in season and start thinking about you would like to target. You just won't be able to take "actions" to recruit them until after the season.

also, one flaw in putting everything all together, to expand on your stance, is that missing an export under the way SD wants it potentially puts you behind the pack - by a wide margin.

right now, say for FOF MP, if you happen to miss an export the worst that happens is (barring the AI having to control your roster because it was not legal) you use the prior week's gameplan for your opponent. not the end of the world, obviously, you still aren't damning yourself to failure.

applying SD's request to the college game now means you not only use a gameplan that might not work PLUS you miss out on a week's worth of recruiting. that's a lot to forfeit just by missing one export, if you ask me.

[Ben E Lou]

applying SD's request to the college game now means you not only use a gameplan that might not work PLUS you miss out on a week's worth of recruiting. that's a lot to forfeit just by missing one export, if you ask me.But missing out on one week's worth of recruiting shouldn't make a huge difference when there would be a total of 30 recruiting stages, should it?

[Anthony]

But here's the thing: gameplanning and depth chart changes take a very minimal amount of time. In IHOF, I spend maybe 5 minutes twice a real-time week on gameplanning and depth chart changes, and nearly everyone has reported similar activity. How long could recruiting take each week? 10-15 minutes maybe? Two 15-20 minute sessions per real-time week isn't that bad of a commitment at all. (Now, maybe in a college game you'd do three game weeks per real-time week because there'd be no need for FA signings in between game stages.)

again, you want to project the way you do thing solo onto many people. you aren't making any concessions. who are you to dictate what is and what isn't an acceptable amount of time to devote to an online league? what if someone wants to do something silly and outlandish like, i don't know, be in more than one league?

i really don't think you're grapsing the concept man. you want to make someone go from casually being able to gameplan and look at stats in 5-10 minutes, to now obligating them to move things along at a brisk pace to make room for recruitment duties. with the thousands of high schoolers available, while i don't think it'd take 30 minutes to recruit i certainly don't think this is a 5 minute and you're done type of thing.

and judging by your success (or lack thereof) in IHOF perhaps the 5 minutes you devote to your team each game week isn't enough. :p

[Anthony]

But missing out on one week's worth of recruiting shouldn't make a huge difference when there would be a total of 30 recruiting stages, should it?

point taken.

[astrosfan64]

I've talked with Ben about this, but I will let everyone in on the reasons for splitting our recruiting from the in-season. Through talks with different people and my own experiences, asking a commish or solo gamer to manage an inseason process with recruiting is just too much to handle for most people. If we set it up that way, gamers would have to set depth charts, update their play books and gameplans on their matchup (plus more advance scouting), monitor the change in HS stats and JC recruits very closely, setup recruiting allocations, watch academics, monitor stats and deal with scholarships EACH week. That's just too much and would make the game more "work" than "fun" - especially for a poor commish (imagine having 40-50 teams, maybe even more).

In reality, much of the recruiting is done in the summer before the season as coaches are simply too busy to get involved during the season. And, of course, LOI's are signed in the Feb after the season.

It seems to me that in a lot of college games (including TDCB), you do everything during the season and then take a deep breath and breeze through the offseason before undertaking massive micromanagement the next season. So, I felt that having the active recruiting actions start after the season would break up the work for commissioners, as well as make the game flow a little better. In this setup, you handle non-conf scheduling, redshirts, off/def strategy and budgets in the "Camp" stage. Then, you turn your focus to winning games, gameplans, playbooks, monitoring your players and keeping a bird's eye view on recruits in the "Season" stage. Finally, in the Offseason, you adjust your staff, look for college transfers, take recruiting actions and setup a summer training program before starting the cycle over again.

Now, this is just my opinion, but I think this process makes each stage something to look forward to, yet nothing to really "dread". And, for both solo and multiplayer, it is very important to having people enjoy playing the game. I think the game will have a very real feel to it as you will get information on recruit breakdowns from Camp to the season and into the offseason. This process just helps break up the work to make the game more manageable to play.


I loved TCY, but I must say that this seems to appeal to me more. I know there were times, when I just wanted to play my game that week. e.g. big game coming up against a rival etc... I didn't want to waste my points or auto recruit so I had to micro all the damn recruiting.

To me it really screwded up the flow of the game.

Once it comes out I might think differently (doubt it) but I think this is the way to go.

[st.cronin]

One thing I like about TCY's integrating recruiting into the season is that it makes those occasional 1-10, 2-9 seasons a lot more fun to play.

[timmynausea]

again, you want to project the way you do thing solo onto many people. you aren't making any concessions. who are you to dictate what is and what isn't an acceptable amount of time to devote to an online league? what if someone wants to do something silly and outlandish like, i don't know, be in more than one league?

i really don't think you're grapsing the concept man. you want to make someone go from casually being able to gameplan and look at stats in 5-10 minutes, to now obligating them to move things along at a brisk pace to make room for recruitment duties. with the thousands of high schoolers available, while i don't think it'd take 30 minutes to recruit i certainly don't think this is a 5 minute and you're done type of thing.

and judging by your success (or lack thereof) in IHOF perhaps the 5 minutes you devote to your team each game week isn't enough. :p

This seems like a pretty nit-picky argument. I say that assuming that over the long haul with either plan you are going to spend the same amount of time recruiting. (If you have the recruiting compartmentalized you'll have to spend a lot of recruiting resources over a few game weeks, and with SkyDog's plan you spend the resources in small chunks over the course of the year. In the end you'd probably spend about the same amount of time to sign your 20 or 25 guys.) To me it makes no sense to refute SkyDog's plan on the basis of the time that will be spent.

[stevew]

Can we export the players from Bowl bound into OOTP7 from SI?

[Comey]

Can we export the players from Bowl bound into OOTP7 from SI? Dude, c'mon. Let's get real.




















Arlie, can we import from BB into Madden '98 for the Nintendo 64?

[KWhit]

I like the idea of having the recruiting separate from the games. I don't care if it's 100% realistic or not.

[KWhit]

I'll translate.
Oh, okay. Got it now.

Man, I'm so sad he's no longer in our league.

[cartman]

Can we export the players from Bowl bound into OOTP7 from SI?

Let's call this the Bo Jackson feature...

:)

[jbmagic]

Arlie

is there a way you can make Skydog plan for solo play only?

and for online league, do it the way you plan.

[stevew]

Arlie

is there a way you can make Skydog plan for solo play only?

and for online league, do it the way you plan.

Huh?

[Ben E Lou]

Huh?Now THAT idea sounds like a programming nightmare to me.

[Galaril]

Arlie

is there a way you can make Skydog plan for solo play only?

and for online league, do it the way you plan.


True not Everyone is look to play online league.

[sovereignstar]

Now THAT idea sounds like a programming nightmare to me.

My thoughts exactly.

[GoldenEagle]

The gaming will split into games that concentrate on single player and games that concentrate on multiplayer. This is only the beginning.

[stevew]

what about those wish to play online league with Barry Bond in it would they have to use LF Giant instead or would you do both version.

[jbmagic]

i think this game will be use mainly for solo play than online league.

if that the case, they should Follow Skydog's plan on recruiting.


i think most people will use this game for solo play over online league.

so if that the case, they should follow Skydog's plan.


Look at there other Game Total Pro Basketball 2005, most people play it as solo play over online league. there only a few online league since game came out. the game is great. but for some reason the popularity to play it online is not there.

So you have to address what the majority people that buy this college football game game is going to play solo or online.

[Samdari]

I've talked with Ben about this, but I will let everyone in on the reasons for splitting our recruiting from the in-season. Through talks with different people and my own experiences, asking a commish or solo gamer to manage an inseason process with recruiting is just too much to handle for most people. If we set it up that way, gamers would have to set depth charts, update their play books and gameplans on their matchup (plus more advance scouting), monitor the change in HS stats and JC recruits very closely, setup recruiting allocations, watch academics, monitor stats and deal with scholarships EACH week. That's just too much and would make the game more "work" than "fun" - especially for a poor commish (imagine having 40-50 teams, maybe even more).

In reality, much of the recruiting is done in the summer before the season as coaches are simply too busy to get involved during the season. And, of course, LOI's are signed in the Feb after the season.

It seems to me that in a lot of college games (including TDCB), you do everything during the season and then take a deep breath and breeze through the offseason before undertaking massive micromanagement the next season. So, I felt that having the active recruiting actions start after the season would break up the work for commissioners, as well as make the game flow a little better. In this setup, you handle non-conf scheduling, redshirts, off/def strategy and budgets in the "Camp" stage. Then, you turn your focus to winning games, gameplans, playbooks, monitoring your players and keeping a bird's eye view on recruits in the "Season" stage. Finally, in the Offseason, you adjust your staff, look for college transfers, take recruiting actions and setup a summer training program before starting the cycle over again.

Now, this is just my opinion, but I think this process makes each stage something to look forward to, yet nothing to really "dread". And, for both solo and multiplayer, it is very important to having people enjoy playing the game. I think the game will have a very real feel to it as you will get information on recruit breakdowns from Camp to the season and into the offseason. This process just helps break up the work to make the game more manageable to play.

Arlie - I actually think you have this completely backwards regards to multiplayer.

While I understand the idea that having too much involved in one step of the process can make it seem like micromanagement, and I agree from the standpoint of single player. I think in order to make any game better for MP, the key is to reduce the number of exports per season, where your current design minimizes the amount needing to be done per export in exchange for adding weeks (and thus exports) to the season.

The biggest drawback to MP leagues is the exceedingly slow pace. In most cases, this pace is necesary because not everyone can find time on the same days or the same time of day to play the game, thus two or three days are required between exports, to give everyone a chance to get to the game. If the number of tasks required once they got there were increased (by having recruiting in-season) it would not seem to me to slow too many leagues down.

The flaw in your thinking is that MP league players will have too much to do for a given export. In fact, the opposite is pretty much true. There is not nearly enough to do to for each export in FOF2k4, the big holdup is waiting for every other team in the league to do it.

[stevew]

Arlie - I actually think you have this completely backwards regards to multiplayer.

While I understand the idea that having too much involved in one step of the process can make it seem like micromanagement, and I agree from the standpoint of single player. I think in order to make any game better for MP, the key is to reduce the number of exports per season, where your current design minimizes the amount needing to be done per export in exchange for adding weeks (and thus exports) to the season.

The biggest drawback to MP leagues is the exceedingly slow pace. In most cases, this pace is necesary because not everyone can find time on the same days or the same time of day to play the game, thus two or three days are required between exports, to give everyone a chance to get to the game. If the number of tasks required once they got there were increased (by having recruiting in-season) it would not seem to me to slow too many leagues down.

The flaw in your thinking is that MP league players will have too much to do for a given export. In fact, the opposite is pretty much true. There is not nearly enough to do to for each export in FOF2k4, the big holdup is waiting for every other team in the league to do it.

What sam said.

[Cap Ologist]

I'm looking forward to this. I don't know if this would be feasible or not, but I'll throw it out anyway. It's definitely not totally realistic, but it might work. During the regular season, each team would have 5 exports per month. 4 of those would be games and 1 would be recruiting. I love how FBCB does recruiting. It happens once a month, not once a week. This way recruiting can still happen during the season for realism, but wouldn't add to much more of a burden. The program would have 2 export functions, one for game files and one for recruiting. That way, if someone knows they are going to be gone or might miss an export, they could work on the recruiting earlier in the month. This would also allow people to put as much time into recruiting as they want as far as personal time.

Ok, I have no idea if that would work or not, but I just thought I'd throw it out there.

[Ben E Lou]

What sam said.He did a good job of fleshing out what I was trying to ask here: Ok, I'm still confused. According to your screenie, there are 47 stages in a BBCF season. My suggestion would require 30-35 stages, assuming sticking with your 21 weeks for Sept-Dec, then one, MAYBE two, stages per month for Jan-Aug.

I'm not trying to tease or give you a hard time anymore, I'm truly trying to understand how the way it is being done is even more streamlined, because it is *definitely* unrealistic.

[st.cronin]

I'm looking forward to this. I don't know if this would be feasible or not, but I'll throw it out anyway. It's definitely not totally realistic, but it might work. During the regular season, each team would have 5 exports per month. 4 of those would be games and 1 would be recruiting. I love how FBCB does recruiting. It happens once a month, not once a week. This way recruiting can still happen during the season for realism, but wouldn't add to much more of a burden. The program would have 2 export functions, one for game files and one for recruiting. That way, if someone knows they are going to be gone or might miss an export, they could work on the recruiting earlier in the month. This would also allow people to put as much time into recruiting as they want as far as personal time.

Ok, I have no idea if that would work or not, but I just thought I'd throw it out there.

I think this sounds good.

[HomerJSimpson]

i think this game will be use mainly for solo play than online league.

if that the case, they should Follow Skydog's plan on recruiting.


i think most people will use this game for solo play over online league.

so if that the case, they should follow Skydog's plan.


Look at there other Game Total Pro Basketball 2005, most people play it as solo play over online league. there only a few online league since game came out. the game is great. but for some reason the popularity to play it online is not there.

So you have to address what the majority people that buy this college football game game is going to play solo or online.

Well, I'll probably play it solo, and if he follows Skydog plan, it will go from "immediate buy" to "big maybe buy." I doubt I'll buy TCY2 if it comes out and still has recruiting mostly done during the season.

Well, thinking about it, if it were completely Skydog's plan (heavy recruiting over the summer with just minor updates during the season for big programs, then heavy recruiting for the smaller programs in January-Feburary), then I'd probably go with that. Having the heaviest imphasis during the season? No.

[Bee]

Good luck with the game Arlie. Looking forward to trying the demo.

B

[ScottVib]

Interesting comments. I think I'd prefer it the way it's being done. When I'm playing the season I want to focus on the games. I want to pay attention to my lineups and strategies and watch/coach my game. If I have to split my attention/energy with recruiting I find that I'm not able to go through as much detail and look at all the data given that I might like, because I want to keep the season moving, and I'm anxious to get to the game.

Assuming recruiting is done right, IMO it becomes a fun "mini-game" within the main game. It provides something to look forward to during the offseason, rather then getting lost in the shuffle of the regular season (where at least for me focus should be on the actual games/season), and I'm able to devote more time to recruiting.

While the number of weeks I simulate may increase, personally I think the speed I go through each season in this fashion will increase. As now I don't have to shift gears, I can stay in "recruiting mode" for the period it's going on, or I can stay in "game mode" during the season. Rather then having to start then stop each frame of thinking, every week of the season. It means I don't have to keep as many notes and shifting from notepad to game window several times a week to remember what I was doing in recruiting, after I get wrapped up in the exciting finish of that weeks game. It means having more time to pour over my opponents stats to figure out how I'm going to stop the All-Conference WR, despite losing my top corner the week before, without saying to myself, I've really got to get cranking on my recruiting or I'll never get to play the game.

But that's just me, and it's still early. Ultimately once the game hits testing we'll see if it works or not.

[JasonC23]

Will we be able to go for 2 when the game is first released?


(Come on, someone had to say it.) ;)

[Samdari]

Interesting comments. I think I'd prefer it the way it's being done. When I'm playing the season I want to focus on the games. I want to pay attention to my lineups and strategies and watch/coach my game. If I have to split my attention/energy with recruiting I find that I'm not able to go through as much detail and look at all the data given that I might like, because I want to keep the season moving, and I'm anxious to get to the game.

Assuming recruiting is done right, IMO it becomes a fun "mini-game" within the main game. It provides something to look forward to during the offseason, rather then getting lost in the shuffle of the regular season (where at least for me focus should be on the actual games/season), and I'm able to devote more time to recruiting.

While the number of weeks I simulate may increase, personally I think the speed I go through each season in this fashion will increase. As now I don't have to shift gears, I can stay in "recruiting mode" for the period it's going on, or I can stay in "game mode" during the season. Rather then having to start then stop each frame of thinking, every week of the season. It means I don't have to keep as many notes and shifting from notepad to game window several times a week to remember what I was doing in recruiting, after I get wrapped up in the exciting finish of that weeks game. It means having more time to pour over my opponents stats to figure out how I'm going to stop the All-Conference WR, despite losing my top corner the week before, without saying to myself, I've really got to get cranking on my recruiting or I'll never get to play the game.

But that's just me, and it's still early. Ultimately once the game hits testing we'll see if it works or not.

Note - my comments apply only to multiplayer Scott. Generally someone playing on their own will accomplish a year's tasks in the same amount of time regardless of how they are distributed.

For single player - I agree with the sentiment that if recruiting is engaging, I don't really care if its in-season or out. However, between the various incarnations of FOF and TCY, I find myself not particularly enthralled by single player football sims, even excellent products such as FOF2k4 and TPF. It is only the addition of human opponents with personalities that these games become engaging enough to buy anymore.

I will add this though - if an MP season does indeed have 40+ exports per season, GDS will be wasting their time writing the MP module. With rare exceptions, leagues that were enthusiastically formed will quickly die through attrition, as coaches are forced to quit due to either (a) missing exports due to exports being required too frequently or (b) not enough going on in each export to make the experience fun.

[Balldog]

Will we be able to go for 2 when the game is first released?


(Come on, someone had to say it.) ;)

Haha, forgot about that!

Still looking forward to it :)

[Ben E Lou]

I will add this though - if an MP season does indeed have 40+ exports per season, GDS will be wasting their time writing the MP module.I agree with your general premise, but this ain't so. There are more than that in an FOF2K4 multiplayer season.

[sabotai]

Will we be able to go for 2 when the game is first released?


(Come on, someone had to say it.) ;)

Onside kicks would be a nice "feature" too. :D

[VPI97]

I will add this though - if an MP season does indeed have 40+ exports per season, GDS will be wasting their time writing the MP module. With rare exceptions, leagues that were enthusiastically formed will quickly die through attrition, as coaches are forced to quit due to either (a) missing exports due to exports being required too frequently or (b) not enough going on in each export to make the experience fun. It depends on what kind of exports they are...are they all mandatory? ...are there some optional ones? I don't know if you can really condemn an export schedule without knowing exactly how many are critical ones.

[Anthony]

However, between the various incarnations of FOF and TCY, I find myself not particularly enthralled by single player football sims, even excellent products such as FOF2k4 and TPF. It is only the addition of human opponents with personalities that these games become engaging enough to buy anymore.


i agree and disagree with you at the same time. i only really play text sim games to play against other people. if i were to win against the AI it just wouldn't *feel right*, like i'd have to put an asterisk next to my accomplishments cuz they weren't against a higher level of competition (human brains).

i disagree with you in the sense that text sim football games, even in single player mode, are light years ahead of what you can do in say Madden or any other console "franchise" mode, save for Madden PC, where you can see your players in your own jerseys/logos.

[VPI97]

I agree with your general premise, but this ain't so. There are more than that in an FOF2K4 multiplayer season. Yep...every league has a different schedule, but for us, the 2007 IHOF Bowl will be the 74th export of the season.

[dawgfan]

Question for Arlie about BBCF - can you expand a little bit on how you envision MP leagues working for this game?

Are there any minimum/maximum number of players for MP leagues?

Will all MP leagues have all 117 (or whatever the number is now) of D-1 teams?

What happens to the teams not run by a human?

Will all human players have to be in the same conference, or can they be spread around?

Will players be required to use the existing D-1 schools, or can they create a new school?

Is the game limited to D-1 teams?

In MP, will there be an option to equalize the human-run teams at the start of the league?

I love that there will be a new entry in the college football market, and I'm intrigued by the idea of MP for it, but I'm also somewhat skeptical of how this will actually work. Seems to me that it's all but impossible to expect leagues to have 117 active, involved players, so the MP experience would seem to be either one where human players have a large number of AI-run teams to contend with, which has the downside of the human-run teams are likely to quickly all rise to the top of the polls, or the MP leagues will scale back the size of number of teams to match the number of human players which would greatly affect the realism factor.

I look forward to hearing more about this Arlie.

[stevew]

I agree with your general premise, but this ain't so. There are more than that in an FOF2K4 multiplayer season.

Yeah, I'm suprised anyone plays FOF2k4(myself included)multiplayer with the amount of stages to just complete a season.

[Samdari]

It depends on what kind of exports they are...are they all mandatory? ...are there some optional ones? I don't know if you can really condemn an export schedule without knowing exactly how many are critical ones.

Sure I can. I love the IHOF, but I wish seasons would go by faster, but think that more frequent exports would restrict the pool of owners. The answer (IMO) is combining tasks to reduce the number of exports required per season.

IMO, the best MP experience requires involved owners. In part, that is dependent upon the personalities assembled, in part the game needs to involve them. Truly involved owners are not going to see many exports as optional.

[Anthony]

I agree with your general premise, but this ain't so. There are more than that in an FOF2K4 multiplayer season.

exactly:

4 preseason exports
16 regular season exports
10 FA stage exports (most leagues lump several FA stages into one stage)
7 ammy draft exports

that's 37 exports right there. minimum. could be more depending on how many stages are simmed during FA.

so 40 is the norm in my book. and i don't know if 40+ would be so outlandish if one were having *fun* actually participating in the league. since college seasons are shorter than pro seasons you're not looking at that much more exports.

[sovereignstar]

What are ammy draft exports?

[Coder]

Yeah, I'm suprised anyone plays FOF2k4(myself included)multiplayer with the amount of stages to just complete a season.

Having been the commissioner of a fantasy hockey league with 62 games per season, and only simulating one gameday per real day, I can tell you that people really do play that way and have fun. I ran my league for 7 years and out of 30 owners, 20 stayed with me the whole time. While they didn't have to send in lines every day, just about everyone sent in at least two "exports" per week.

[sovereignstar]

Having been the commissioner of a fantasy hockey league with 62 games per season, and only simulating one gameday per real day, I can tell you that people really do play that way and have fun. I ran my league for 7 years and out of 30 owners, 20 stayed with me the whole time. While they didn't have to send in lines every day, just about everyone sent in at least two "exports" per week.


Agreed. The ImperialFL only sims one week's worth of games each Sunday and the majority of the guys love it. It really feels like a football Sunday as you've been itching to see how your team will do.

[stevew]

exactly:

4 preseason exports
16 regular season exports
10 FA stage exports (most leagues lump several FA stages into one stage)
7 ammy draft exports

that's 37 exports right there. minimum. could be more depending on how many stages are simmed during FA.

so 40 is the norm in my book. and i don't know if 40+ would be so outlandish if one were having *fun* actually participating in the league. since college seasons are shorter than pro seasons you're not looking at that much more exports.

More like 5 preseason exports,
4 preseason "midweek" exports
Training camp

17 regular season games
17 "midweek exports"
4 playoff exports
4 playoff "midweek exports"
3 coach stage exports
franchise/ticket prices
10 FA exports(minimum)
1 draft preference export
4 secondary fa exports(minimum)

Holy god, thats like 71 exports a season at the minimum.

[sovereignstar]

More like 5 preseason exports,
4 preseason "midweek" exports
Training camp

17 regular season games
17 "midweek exports"
4 playoff exports
4 playoff "midweek exports"
3 coach stage exports
franchise/ticket prices
10 FA exports(minimum)
1 draft preference export
4 secondary fa exports(minimum)

Holy god, thats like 71 exports a season at the minimum.

I don't know you well enough to know if you're being sarcastic or not. But midweek files are definitely not mandatory. Hell, no one does them in the LXF.

[stevew]

I don't know you well enough to know if you're being sarcastic or not. But midweek files are definitely not mandatory. Hell, no one does them in the LXF.

Not being sarcastic, thats a TON of exporting. Midweek isnt mandatory, but if you want to ever sign someone you gotta do it from time to time.

[albionmoonlight]

Along those lines, if exports can be made in such a way that 1.) they can be done quick and dirty if need be and/or 2.) missing a stage does not hurt you too much, that will help online play.

If you make it that the AI will do something benign and sensible if you miss an export (say, keep recuiting the same players that you have been going after and/or keep your gameplan and roster the same for the next game), then the number and complexity of exports won't matter as much. If, however, you make it that the AI will play all of your redshirt players, change your option attack into a run n shoot, and not do any recuiting on the week that you miss an export, then you will have people getting mad at the AI.

[Anthony]

More like 5 preseason exports,
4 preseason "midweek" exports
Training camp

17 regular season games
17 "midweek exports"
4 playoff exports
4 playoff "midweek exports"
3 coach stage exports
franchise/ticket prices
10 FA exports(minimum)
1 draft preference export
4 secondary fa exports(minimum)

Holy god, thats like 71 exports a season at the minimum.


woof...i was waaay off. you're correct.

[sovereignstar]

How the hell else do you guys think that you can make a roster move, besides an export? Even if it's the smallest roster change it doesn't matter. You shouldn't be counting those as stages.

[Samdari]

How the hell else do you guys think that you can make a roster move, besides an export? Even if it's the smallest roster change it doesn't matter. You shouldn't be counting those as stages.

Remeber, this is college. The only roster moves you can make are lineup changes, which are only necesary in gameday exports. The only additions are through recruiting, which, whether done in season, or in an off-season, are always for next year.

[Ben E Lou]

Remeber, this is college. The only roster moves you can make are lineup changes, which are only necesary in gameday exports. The only additions are through recruiting, which, whether done in season, or in an off-season, are always for next year.Yup. Not only that, but there will probably be games where gameplanning and roster moves don't make a difference at all. This shouldn't be the "any-given-Sunday" feel of pro multiplayer football, where you should have at least a fighting chance to win every week. If I'm playing UGA, I'm not going to be remotely engaged by spending time gameplanning for Louisiana-Monroe, Vandy, Kentucky, etc...

[st.cronin]

Yup. Not only that, but there will probably be games where gameplanning and roster moves don't make a difference at all. This shouldn't be the "any-given-Sunday" feel of pro multiplayer football, where you should have at least a fighting chance to win every week. If I'm playing UGA, I'm not going to be remotely engaged by spending time gameplanning for Louisiana-Monroe, Vandy, Kentucky, etc...

And at the same time if you're playing as Central Florida you're going to be more interested n recruiting than gameplanning for Florida State.

[Samdari]

Yup. Not only that, but there will probably be games where gameplanning and roster moves don't make a difference at all. This shouldn't be the "any-given-Sunday" feel of pro multiplayer football, where you should have at least a fighting chance to win every week. If I'm playing UGA, I'm not going to be remotely engaged by spending time gameplanning for Louisiana-Monroe, Vandy, Kentucky, etc...

Don't scheduly ULM, you patsy lovin wuss.

[Ben E Lou]

Don't scheduly ULM, you patsy lovin wuss.I'm assuming that the game will have the real 2005 schedules. Plus, if I'm playing a week-to-week schedule, I want mainly patsies as the out-of-conference games anyway. :p

[sovereignstar]

Remeber, this is college. The only roster moves you can make are lineup changes, which are only necesary in gameday exports. The only additions are through recruiting, which, whether done in season, or in an off-season, are always for next year.

Why are you quoting me on that? I'm merely shooting down the ridiculous notion that 70 exports are needed in an FOF MP season.

[Samdari]

Why are you quoting me on that? I'm merely shooting down the ridiculous notion that 70 exports are needed in an FOF MP season.

Ah - I thought you were referring to the necesity of many export stages in the upcoming college sim. My mistake.