80's Historical League

[VPI97]

With all but a couple of ownership spots filled, it's time to bring together everyone to start informing owners and discuss any start up issues that there may be with the league.

For starters, here's the league structure that we'll be using:

AFC North
Baltimore Colts
Cincinnati Bengals
Cleveland Browns
Pittsburgh Steelers

AFC South
Arizona Outlaws
Houston Oilers
Jacksonville Bulls
Memphis Showboats

AFC East
Buffalo Bills
Miami Dolphins
New England Patriots
New York Jets

AFC West
Denver Broncos
Kansas City Chiefs
Oakland Raiders
San Diego Chargers

NFC North
Chicago Bears
Detroit Lions
Green Bay Packers
Minnesota Vikings

NFC South
Atlanta Falcons
Birmingham Stallions
New Orleans Saints
Tampa Bay Buccaneers

NFC East
Dallas Cowboys
New York Giants
Philadelphia Eagles
Washington Redskins

NFC West
Los Angeles Rams
San Francisco 49ers
Seattle Seahawks
St. Louis Cardinals

As you can see, I've replaced the four post-1980 expansion teams with USFL teams. It seemed more appropriate than to fast forward and include teams that would not be created for another 10-20 years.

Starting Rosters
The league will start with an allocation draft that uses the 1980 roster file (http://home.ripway.com/2005-5/318001/FOF1980PlayerFile.zip) that theclassic created and made available at the end of May. For subsequent years, we'll use the draft files that are available at the FOF Historical Society (http://www.cflfb.com/fof/fof.htm)

Allocation Draft
Our allocation draft will consist of 20-30 rounds of manual drafting using an online draft app, with the rest of the rosters filled out by switching the draft over to AI controlled within the game. You'll have input in to these automatic rounds by submitting a preference file (something which most MP leagues have used for their entire draft). My initial thought on the cutoff point between manual and automatic are to approach it when (if) a time comes in the draft process that things are looking like they are slowing down.

League Schedule
We'll have two games a week, with sims occurring on Mondays and Thursdays. Mid Week stages will be due on Tuesdays and Fridays (for those of you with no MP experience, I'll break down what is expected for each of these days once we get on our site)

Site
Speaking of the website, I've got things lined up with a host to start fleshing out our site/message board once we can come up with a name for the league. I'm not that creative, so suggestions are welcomed. The name should be something that is decided ASAP, so the rest of the start up process can begin.

X-Factor
Another thing that we will need to decide is whether or not to use the X-Factor when it comes to creating the league and seasonal drafting. For those of you not familiar with this option, the game allows for players to be created with more randomness to their ratings than what the player look like in the roster file. In short, with X-Factor on, Elway, Marino, et al could end up being scrubs while Joe Sixpack is the stud of the '83 draft class. With X-Factor off, the players that performed well in the NFL should enter our league with similar chances. Injuries and development time should make for some changes, but not to the extreme that X-Factor would give us. Personally, I'm torn between having it on or off....that's why I thought it best to discuss the issue prior to making a decision.

Owners
Currently, there are 31 owners have verified their interest in teams (see below), if you have changed your mind, please let me know. The remaining spots will be filled shortly.

Confirmed Owners
sovereignstar
VPI97
Shorty
Kodos
Dutch
Cringer
BOSS
MIJB#19
SegRat
theclassic
JeeberD
ardent enthusiast
Subby
KWhit
Vince
SackAttack
Matt
Suicane
digamma
stkelly52
fantastic flying froggies
mckerney
Allosaurus
primelord
sfl_cat
GrantDawg
daedalus
radii
kurtism
Taco
TheLionKing

Anyway, as I noted before, Step One should be a decision on the name....any suggestions? Any further questions about how things will work? Post away...

[fantastic flying froggies]

How will teams be allocated?

As far as the league name goes, it's pretty obvious to me - the Electric Boogaloo Football League! :D

[fantastic flying froggies]

dola - and I will be a very strong defender of having the X-factor turned off!

[Kodos]

Yay! I vote for no X-factor, by the way. I think for a historical league, a good part of the fun is playing with and against classic players who are rated similarly to how they really played. Who wants to see Joe Montana play like Danny White?

Classic Football League
Roselle Football League (in tribute to the great commissioner)
Modern Era Football League
Golden Era Football League

[VPI97]

How will teams be allocated? Ahhh...I knew I forgot something.

Obviously, some people have preferred teams and we'll try to accomodate as many people as we can. Once the new board is up and running, I'll ask for people to PM me their preferences and we'll work out team allocations by trying to match up as many owners as we can to what they want.

[digamma]

White Shoes Football League (I know I wore white cleats in the early 80s because of him.)

I lean very slightly to the X-Factor being turned on.

[Kodos]

I loved Billy White Shoes in those fabulous red Falcons unis!

[sovereignstar]

As you can see, I've replaced the four post-1980 expansion teams with USFL teams. It seemed more appropriate than to fast forward and include teams that would not be created for another 10-20 years. I like it, but I'll patiently wait to hear Suicane's "oxycotinzed" suggestions.

Starting Rosters
The league will start with an allocation draft that uses the 1980 roster file (http://home.ripway.com/2005-5/318001/FOF1980PlayerFile.zip) that theclassic created and made available at the end of May. For subsequent years, we'll use the draft files that are available at the FOF Historical Society (http://www.cflfb.com/fof/fof.htm)

Allocation Draft
Our allocation draft will consist of 20-30 rounds of manual drafting using an online draft app, with the rest of the rosters filled out by switching the draft over to AI controlled within the game. You'll have input in to these automatic rounds by submitting a preference file (something which most MP leagues have used for their entire draft). My initial thought on the cutoff point between manual and automatic are to approach it when (if) a time comes in the draft process that things are looking like they are slowing down. I've mentioned this to VPI before, but thought I'd bring it to everyone else's attention as well. theclassic's file, while done brilliantly, only contains 516 players. What this means is that there is approximately enough real players to fill up 9 teams (or 16 rounds of drafting). The rest of the players (around 1200 I think) will be of OPU caliber, aka roster fillers. I've suggested that we attempt to make the roster file meet the suggested requirements which are detailed in the Player File Generator help file (below):

Here's a list of the frequency Overall Player Ratings are assigned in the default data file:

9 - Rare Superstar - 0.3%
8 - Superstar - 1.4%
7 - Near Superstar - 1.8%
6 - Elite Starter - 1.7%
5 - Excellent Starter - 3.5%
4 - Very Good-Plus Starter - 4.3%
3 - Very Good Starter - 6.0%
2 - Good Starter - 16.2%
1 - Replacement-Level Starter (decent backup) - 27.2%
0 - Roster Filler - 37.6%

This balance applies to an initial player file with 1,758 players. When beginning a new game, Front Office Football will generate roster filler-level players to allow teams to fill their immediate needs. In future seasons, undrafted rookie players play that role.
The roster file, as it is, will create an amount of roster fillers about double the suggested level. I don't think the task of editing the file would be so tough. One would just have to take players out of one of the existing CSVs out there to even things up and then replace their names with fictional ones. I would be up to such a task if no one else was. Thoughts?

X-Factor
Another thing that we will need to decide is whether or not to use the X-Factor when it comes to creating the league and seasonal drafting. For those of you not familiar with this option, the game allows for players to be created with more randomness to their ratings than what the player look like in the roster file. In short, with X-Factor on, Elway, Marino, et al could end up being scrubs while Joe Sixpack is the stud of the '83 draft class. With X-Factor off, the players that performed well in the NFL should enter our league with similar chances. Injuries and development time should make for some changes, but not to the extreme that X-Factor would give us. Personally, I'm torn between having it on or off....that's why I thought it best to discuss the issue prior to making a decision. Also keep in mind that if you were to start multiple leagues with this file (or any other file), even with X-Factor turned off, there will be some variability. Reason being, is that a 1-9 scale is used to determind how good or bad players are overall. That alone lends itself to different results each time. Without giving it a large amount of thought, I think I'd be for having the X-Factor turned off.

[Radii]

Roselle Football League (in tribute to the great commissioner)
Modern Era Football League
Golden Era Football League

I like all of those, espicially the Roselle Football League (though RFL doesn't really have much of a ring to it, does it?)


I lean very slightly towards the X-Factor being turned off based on what I understand, but I am a newbie when it comes to recent incarnations of FOF and will go wherever the experienced people in this league take me.

[Suicane75]

I like Golden Era, has a ring to it. Im for X-Facotor turned off.
And my idea to was to use old franchises instead of USFL teams, but i'm cool like Raul.

My only question is this. What if we used only the scrubs instead of adding better players? Sure it would make teams not quite as good but we'd be building the league from scratch with ONLY 80's guys, it would sort of be an evolution of the league right before our eyes.

Those are my observations.

[sovereignstar]

My only question is this. What if we used only the scrubs instead of adding better players? Sure it would make teams not quite as good but we'd be building the league from scratch with ONLY 80's guys, it would sort of be an evolution of the league right before our eyes. Another thing to keep in mind is that the file is offensively-lopsided. By that I mean there are more offensive players in it than defensive players. The actual count:

292 off.
32 s.t.
173 def.

I haven't done tons of tests, but in the ones I have done I've seen a lot of 1,000 yard rushers and receivers. By a lot, I mean more than I've seen in any of my singleplayer careers or MP careers.

[korme]

Why an allocation draft? I was under the impression that starting with the 1980's Bengals I would inherit that roster.

[sovereignstar]

Why an allocation draft? I was under the impression that starting with the 1980's Bengals I would inherit that roster.
Firstly, the players are NOT on their actual teams in the file. Secondly, if you read ahead, you'll see that there are only 516 real players in the file (which I mention is only enough for 9 teams). I'm just not sure how feasible anything other than an allocation draft is or if it's even possible.

[korme]

Is there anywhere we can go to find out full rosters of 1980's teams so we can add more players to the file (more specifically so we even out the offense to defense disparity

[KWhit]

I like the idea of an allocation draft - I would much rather that than for the teams to be their actual rosters.

[KWhit]

Oh and I say X factor turned OFF. I want the stars to be stars. Isn't that why we all want to play in this league?

[sovereignstar]

Is there anywhere we can go to find out full rosters of 1980's teams so we can add more players to the file (more specifically so we even out the offense to defense disparity
I don't know, man. Coming up with reasonable ratings for 50-some players for each team can not be an easy task, especially with the lack of history there is on defensive players. You'd have to figure out what to do with the expansion teams as well.

[korme]

Had some free time, I think I like this (directly ripped off of ESPN's NBA Draft gallery)

http://img169.imageshack.us/my.php?image=riceexample6vm.jpg

I put RFL in there for filler, but we still don't know what this league will be called.

[SegRat]

For league name I am for Golden Era

[Poli]

X Factor off, Golden Era works for me.

[Subby]

X Factor off, Golden Era works for me. yeppers

[VPI97]

I like Golden Era Football League. Anyone opposed to that being the league name?

For the record, I liked White Shoes Football League, too...but I also like Dexy's Midnight Football, so you may or may not want to value my opinion on league names all that much. ;)

[korme]

Where will the league be hosted?

[Kodos]

My other idea was North American Football League, and instead of having the USFL teams, we'd add Canadian Football League teams. Just an idea I thought I'd throw out there. I obviously must like Golden Era since I came up with it. :)

[cthomer5000]

Where will the league be hosted?
come on, like VPI isn't going to handle that? You have seen IHOF, right?

[sovereignstar]

My other idea was North American Football League
North American Football League? (http://naflsim.com) :)

[Kodos]

North American Football League? (http://naflsim.com) :)

I swear, they stole the idea from me. :)

[SackAttack]

No preference either way here. As I told VPI, my knowledge of '80s era football is woefully limited (mostly because I didn't really start to pay attention until the mid '90s), so I'm fine with whatever.

[Dutch]

I'm all for no X-Factor....Golden Era works for me.

And while I'm thinking about it, I'm going to go out on a limb and say the '83 Draft is going to be a lot of fun!

[sovereignstar]

Mmm Ken O'Brien.

[korme]

come on, like VPI isn't going to handle that? You have seen IHOF, right?
I was just wondering if we had a www yet. http://dynamic.gamespy.com/%7Efof/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif

[sovereignstar]

I was just wondering if we had a www yet. http://dynamic.gamespy.com/%7Efof/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif
Donate your booze money and I'm sure we'll be able to hook up a domain for you.

[Suicane75]

Mmm Ken O'Brien.
May we all be moderately average!

[daedalus]

What SackAttack said.

[MIJB#19]

I'm fine with pretty much anything.

[KWhit]

I like Golden Era Football League. Anyone opposed to that being the league name?

For the record, I liked White Shoes Football League, too...but I also like Dexy's Midnight Football, so you may or may not want to value my opinion on league names all that much. ;)
I was thinking the same kind of thing last night, but I came up with the Axel F Football League.

[KWhit]

I've mentioned this to VPI before, but thought I'd bring it to everyone else's attention as well. theclassic's roster file, while done brilliantly, only contains 516 players. What this means is that there is approximately enough real players to fill up 9 teams (or 16 rounds of drafting). The rest of the players (around 1200 I think) will be of OPU caliber, aka roster fillers.
This worries me a little. I want the league balance to be as close to what we're used to in both the real NFL and in our FOF leagues. I know I had a hard time getting used to the HFL's rosters (there were NO decent kickers, everyone had a pro-bowl quality RB, and some other weirdness).

Are there any other options for roster files that are more complete? I don't want the league balance to be out of whack for the first few seasons (which equates to real-life years of playing with "flawed" rosters).

[VPI97]

I was just wondering if we had a www yet. Golden Era Football League is the choice, so www.fof-gefl.com has been registered. Should be up sometime in the next few days.

[VPI97]

This worries me a little. I want the league balance to be as close to what we're used to in both the real NFL and in our FOF leagues. I know I had a hard time getting used to the HFL's rosters (there were NO decent kickers, everyone had a pro-bowl quality RB, and some other weirdness).

Are there any other options for roster files that are more complete? I don't want the league balance to be out of whack for the first few seasons (which equates to real-life years of playing with "flawed" rosters).
I've ran through two 10 year careers in single player with the roster file + historical draft files and the situation you describe where some positions seem top heavy and some seem non-existant don't seem to be there. The idea that sov has is to create generic roster filler type players to get the total number of players in the file up to a point where the game doesn't feel the need to create some on it's own. By allowing the game to do that, you could have game-generated players outperforming the historical players by virtue of the in-game balancing. Balacing is essential to some degree, but if we edit the initial player file with this in mind, it shouldn't be that much of an issue.

[VPI97]

Ownership note: Taco and TheLionKing have joined and puts us at 31 owners.

[Kodos]

Just tossing out another idea to consider. What about starting with the 1970 file and letting the cpu run things for 10 years using historical players to get to 1980? That way, the league would have a little history, and it'd kinda be like the NFL having a history before the Super Bowl era. Of course, eliminating the ability to draft our own teams from scratch would probably be a big strike for this option. Figured I might as well mention it though.

[MIJB#19]

can't the pre-1980 files be merged into the intial 1980 file?

[Dutch]

Just tossing out another idea to consider. What about starting with the 1970 file and letting the cpu run things for 10 years using historical players to get to 1980? That way, the league would have a little history, and it'd kinda be like the NFL having a history before the Super Bowl era. Of course, eliminating the ability to draft our own teams from scratch would probably be a big strike for this option. Figured I might as well mention it though.

Too bad we can't do that and then cut everybody and have a draft.

But.....I wouldn't be opposed to that seeing how the allocation draft ain't much better.

[KWhit]

One of the things I'm really looking forward to in this league is the ability to draft my team from scratch - picking my own players (at least the first 15-20 or so rounds).

I'd hate to do anything to lose that.

[sachmo71]

congrats to those who were invited

[Dutch]

Yeah, manual drafting would be the best course of action. Then have a history of 10-13 years with WYSIWYG teams starting in 1980, THEN AI allocation draft.

[KWhit]

I don't really want to draft a team in 1970 and then wait 10 years to get them. They'd all be gone by then!

Is that what you're suggesting?

[fantastic flying froggies]

congrats to those who were invited
I believe there's 1 spot still open if you're interested.

[fantastic flying froggies]

Golden Era Football League is the choice...
GEFL doesn't quite roll off the tongue, but I really like the Golden Era name, so I can live with GEFL...

[sovereignstar]

To show exactly what I'm having a problem with here are a couple of screenshots. Houston's roster is the 16th-strongest in the league with a rating of 64. These are the top 38 players on their team (sorted by current ability).

http://the-dkbl.com/Clipboard01.jpg
http://the-dkbl.com/Clipboard02.jpg

What I want to do to alleviate the problem of weak rosters is instead of having the computer generate 1200 OPU-level players, add some better backups or guys with ratings alongs around the 40s and 30s. I want the overall level of the rosters to match those in the usual files we use.

[sachmo71]

I believe there's 1 spot still open if you're interested.


Well, I don't see a sign up, and I wasn't invited, so I'm not really sure how to go about doing that.

[sachmo71]

I guess the above post would be me stating my interesting in joining! :D

[VPI97]

Forum now open at: http://www.fof-gefl.com/phpbb2/index.php

[sovereignstar]

Sachmo is Mr. Irrelevant, aka our 32nd owner. :)

[sachmo71]

Sachmo is Mr. Irrelevant, aka our 32nd owner. :)

Don't care. LOVE the historical football leagues. Love em.

:)

[KWhit]

What I want to do to alleviate the problem of weak rosters is instead of having the computer generate 1200 OPU-level players, add some better backups or guys with ratings alongs around the 40s and 30s. I want the overall level of the rosters to match those in the usual files we use.
That sounds necessary based upon the looks of the rosted you posted.

Peeee-ewwww!

[jbmagic]

To show exactly what I'm having a problem with here are a couple of screenshots. Houston's roster is the 16th-strongest in the league with a rating of 64. These are the top 38 players on their team (sorted by current ability).

http://the-dkbl.com/Clipboard01.jpg
http://the-dkbl.com/Clipboard02.jpg

What I want to do to alleviate the problem of weak rosters is instead of having the computer generate 1200 OPU-level players, add some better backups or guys with ratings alongs around the 40s and 30s. I want the overall level of the rosters to match those in the usual files we use.


houston texans never played in the Eighties :) just kidding

[jbmagic]

Well, I don't see a sign up, and I wasn't invited, so I'm not really sure how to go about doing that.


It kinda hurts when your not worthy to get invited. :(

but all in serious, i would of probably decline it. Already in two FOF leagues.

but it would of been nice to be ask to join :)

[Taco]

Ownership note: Taco and TheLionKing have joined and puts us at 31 owners.

Woohoo! :) Thanks, VPI!

[SFL Cat]

Alright...let's get this party started!!!

[Suicane75]

If I may be so bold, i'd like to suggest an alternative alignment.
In this alignment all 80's division setups stay in tact, we have 1 division of rogue NFL franchises and 1 of USFL franchises, a little more streamlined IMO. Just a suggestion, don't make me drown the kittens.

AFC North
Houston Oilers
Cincinnati Bengals
Cleveland Browns
Pittsburgh Steelers

AFC South
Arizona Outlaws
Birmingham Stallions
Jacksonville Bulls
Memphis Showboats

AFC East
Buffalo Bills
Miami Dolphins
New England Patriots
New York Jets

AFC West
Denver Broncos
Kansas City Chiefs
Oakland Raiders
San Diego Chargers

NFC North
Chicago Bears
Detroit Lions
Green Bay Packers
Minnesota Vikings

NFC South
Baltimore Colts
Tampa Bay Buccaneers
Seattle Seahawks
St. Louis Cardinals

NFC East
Dallas Cowboys
New York Giants
Philadelphia Eagles
Washington Redskins

NFC West
Los Angeles Rams
San Francisco 49ers
Atlanta Falcons
New Orleans Saints

[SegRat]

If I may be so bold, i'd like to suggest an alternative alignment.
In this alignment all 80's division setups stay in tact, we have 1 division of rogue NFL franchises and 1 of USFL franchises, a little more streamlined IMO. Just a suggestion, don't make me drown the kittens.

AFC North
Houston Oilers
Cincinnati Bengals
Cleveland Browns
Pittsburgh Steelers

AFC South
Arizona Outlaws
Birmingham Stallions
Jacksonville Bulls
Memphis Showboats

AFC East
Buffalo Bills
Miami Dolphins
New England Patriots
New York Jets

AFC West
Denver Broncos
Kansas City Chiefs
Oakland Raiders
San Diego Chargers

NFC North
Chicago Bears
Detroit Lions
Green Bay Packers
Minnesota Vikings

NFC South
Baltimore Colts
Tampa Bay Buccaneers
Seattle Seahawks
St. Louis Cardinals

NFC East
Dallas Cowboys
New York Giants
Philadelphia Eagles
Washington Redskins

NFC West
Los Angeles Rams
San Francisco 49ers
Atlanta Falcons
New Orleans Saints
I really like that Idea!

[SFL Cat]

I'm partial to the Oklahoma Outlaws rather than the Arizona Outlaws since I actually went to several of their games in Tulsa the one year they played there! :)

If we do put the team in Arizona, I'd rather it be the Wranglers!!!

[MIJB#19]

It kinda hurts when your not worthy to get invited. :(

but all in serious, i would of probably decline it. Already in two FOF leagues.

but it would of been nice to be ask to join :)Who's acting all elitist now? :rolleyes:

[Vince]

Ok, well I'm about to go over to the other board. But it's good to see this thing up and running. We'll see if I can run ANOTHER team into the ground :)

[SFL Cat]

Here's my take on alignment:

AFC North
Houston Oilers
Cincinnati Bengals
Cleveland Browns
Pittsburgh Steelers

AFC South
Baltimore Colts
Birmingham Stallions
Jacksonville Bulls
Memphis Showboats

AFC East
Buffalo Bills
Miami Dolphins
New England Patriots
New York Jets

AFC West
Denver Broncos
Kansas City Chiefs
Oakland Raiders
San Diego Chargers

NFC North
Chicago Bears
Detroit Lions
Green Bay Packers
Minnesota Vikings

NFC South
Atlanta Falcons
Oklahoma Outlaws
St. Louis Cardinals
Tampa Bay Buccaneers

NFC East
Dallas Cowboys
New York Giants
Philadelphia Eagles
Washington Redskins

NFC West
Los Angeles Rams
New Orleans Saints
San Francisco 49ers
Seattle Seahawks

or for a radical departure from the standard alignment...

GEFL EASTERN CONFERENCE

Atlantic Division
New England Patriots
NY Giants
NY Jets
Philadelphia Eagles

Eastern Division
Baltimore Colts
Memphis Showboats
Tampa Bay Buccaneers
Washington Redskins

Northern Division
Buffalo Bills
Cincinnati Bengals
Cleveland Browns
Pittsburgh Steelers

Southern Division
Atlanta Falcons
Birmingham Stallions
Jacksonville Bulls
Miami Dolphins

GEFL WESTERN CONFERENCE

Central Division
Dallas Cowboys
Denver Broncos
Kansas City Chiefs
Saint Louis Cardinals

Northern Division
Chicago Bears
Detroit Lions
Green Bay Packers
Minnesota Vikings

Southern Division
Arizona Outlaws/Wranglers
Houston Oilers
New Orleans Saints
San Diego Chargers

Pacific Division
Los Angeles Rams
Oakland Raiders
San Francisco 49ers
Seattle Seahawks

*Imagine, a Cowboys-Redskins Super Bowl....or a Raiduhs-Steelers matchup! *

[JeeberD]

Don't screw with the NFC East, Cat... :mad:

[SFL Cat]

F*ing traditionalist elitist. :p