2005-06 Soccer Thread

[SirFozzie]

Love to start it off with a story that just screams English Football Hooligans..

Hull City fans face lengthy bans after taunting QPR supporters with vile chants about the London suicide bombings. The FA last night promised to investigate reports that several Hull fans sang: "You're just a town full of bombers" and "Not enough Londoners dead" at Saturday's Championship match at the KC Stadium.

Ah.. footy fans.. bastions of taste and class.

Speaking of El Juego Bonito.. the ManYoo and Everton Champions League qualifiers are on Sentanta Sports this week. it should be fun!

[astrosfan64]

Love to start it off with a story that just screams English Football Hooligans..

Hull City fans face lengthy bans after taunting QPR supporters with vile chants about the London suicide bombings. The FA last night promised to investigate reports that several Hull fans sang: "You're just a town full of bombers" and "Not enough Londoners dead" at Saturday's Championship match at the KC Stadium.

Ah.. footy fans.. bastions of taste and class.

Speaking of El Juego Bonito.. the ManYoo and Everton Champions League qualifiers are on Sentanta Sports this week. it should be fun!

People think Eagles fans are bad....

[SirFozzie]

People think Eagles fans are bad....

Oh, they still are bad. But they're a bunch of prissy dancin nancy boys compared to a true group of 'ooligans, or an Ultra..

[Critch]

Interesting Hull City facts:

1. Hull is the biggest city in Britain to have never had a team in their nation's top division.

2. Hull City are the only team in the English league where you can't color in one of the letters.

Derby v Preston on Setanta this afternoon, two teams with a good chance of being in the running for a promotion to the Premiership at the end of this season. Setanta is finally worth the money, the Champions League qualifiers, the English and German games last weekend, and a great European World Cup qualifier schedule for the beginning of next month.

Very nice (and I'm not just saying that cos their showing Scotland live twice)

[Critch]

dola...

Chelsea v Arsenal yesterday afternoon:
Hleb looked great when he came on for Arsenal.
Gilberto made Arsenal look a good deal stronger in the middle in the second half, if they don't get Jenas, he'll have to replace Vieira on his own.
If Sol Campbell isn't back to his best when he comes back in a couple of weeks time, Arsenal can't win the league. Toure/Senderos isnt the middle of a championship winning defense.
Wright-Phillips for 21mil is an amazing amount of money for somebody who's probably not a regular.
Drogba looks ready to fight for his place.
Chelsea win the league (boring and easy prediction)

[terpkristin]

Almost makes Terps fans look good. :(
Looking forward to an Arsenal season!!! :D

/tk

[SirFozzie]

Almost makes Terps fans look good. :(
Looking forward to an Arsenal season of failure!!! :D

/tk

You said it, TK!

(grin, duck, RUN!)

[terpkristin]

Hmmm, SF, I may have to injure your OTHER shoulder.... :D :D ;) :p

/tk

[SirFozzie]

Eeep! Does it help that I only root for lowly Cambridge United? :D

And no hurting the other shoulder. How do you expect me to post with two bad arms..

Oh wait, FOFC would have a parade if that should happen :)

[terpkristin]

Eeep! Does it help that I only root for lowly Cambridge United? :D

And no hurting the other shoulder. How do you expect me to post with two bad arms..

Oh wait, FOFC would have a parade if that should happen :) Well, when I had each of my shoulder surgeries, I was using a piece of engineering software that required one hand to use the keyboard while the other used the mouse. Needless to say, with my arm in a sling, that was all but impossible, so I picked up the M$ Intellimouse that has buttons you can assign functions to. Best mouse I've ever used. And, it let me do my rotating and drawing of my designs (it was a 3-D CAD/CAM/FEA program).

Edit: And yes, you're somewhat let off the hook for rooting for lowly CU. :D

/tk

[MikeVick7]

I got up at 9am central, after going to bed at 4am, to watch the match live yesterday. Let's just say that I fell back asleep by halftime. That's not a reflection on the game mind you, just a reflection on how incredibly stupid I was for staying up until 4. :)

[GoldenEagle]

It looks like Owen to Man Utd is off. There is talks about Owen being loaned to Newcastle.

By the way, what are some sites that football fans use to get thier news? Any good ones out there besides Soccernet.

[SirFozzie]

football365, SkySports (if it's English, especially lower league)

[daedalus]

Hleb looked great when he came on for Arsenal.Some of the BigSoccer people are thinking of Hleb as Pires' successor but I think he's going to end up taking over for Bergkamp. Except maybe without the insane magic and finishing Bergkamp can pull out of his a, er, hat sometimes.Gilberto made Arsenal look a good deal stronger in the middle in the second half, if they don't get Jenas, he'll have to replace Vieira on his own.It's a suggestion that's been tossed about a few times but I agree with it: Gilberto was a bigger loss than Vieira or Edu was last season. He does the little things that covers a less-than-impressive defensive unit. My concern with him is how many games will his back hold up for and how many multiple-games-per-week weeks can he handle? Flamini is a hustler and a player of some talent but he can't provide the same protection as Gilberto can. I have a feeling Song is going to be groomed for this spot to replace Vieira. The other alternative is Fabrice Muamba, who is said to be highly rated by the club.

I don't think Wenger will do it, but I personally think Lauren should be given a look here as well since he's an experience midfielder. And he's kinda scary.If Sol Campbell isn't back to his best when he comes back in a couple of weeks time, Arsenal can't win the league. Toure/Senderos isnt the middle of a championship winning defense.I think it's going to take longer than expected for Campbell to come back. He's more brittle than a Detroit Lions wideout and he's getting up there in years. He's not been able to do much preparation work in the preseason because of the same calf issue. [Yet, amazingly, he's whining about playing time. Gah.]

It's going to be a struggle with Senderos/Toure in the back, especially since, y'know, that leaves Cygan withing striking distance of playing time. Ugh. Ugh. And ugh. But I think they can get it done. Maybe not beating Chelsea will be out of their capability but at least they can keep Mourinho from being more smug.

If that's possible.

[Katon]

Wright-Phillips for 21mil is an amazing amount of money for somebody who's probably not a regular.

That's the problem with buying at the top of the market - you don't have enough alternatives to keep the price down. Chelsea really needed a right winger and the only other player on the market who could match Wright-Phillips for talent was Joaquin, who didn't fancy moving to England at all. Add in the normal "young English player" tax (Crouch for £7M? Jenas for £15-20M?) and you get a silly fee. He'll be as much of a regular as anyone, though. Chelsea play about sixty matches in a season. Injuries permitting, I'd expect all four wingers to wind up with about thirty starts. It's too demanding a position not to rotate, especially when your backups are as good as Cole and Wright-Phillips. Last year Damien Duff had to start 42 games and he was dead on his feet by the end of the season. I don't think Mourinho will want to repeat the experience.


Drogba looks ready to fight for his place.

Definitely. As a Chelsea fan, that's one of the things I'm most looking forward to about this season: just how much improved our forward situation ought to be from last year. Drogba settled in and with some actual competition for his spot, Crespo replacing Kezman, even Carlton Cole coming in for Mutu should help. Wish I was going to be able to see more of it (I'm going off to the US for college, which obviously makes it a bit more difficult to get to matches).

[terpkristin]

As for websites, I second the recommendation for SkySports, and if you're a fan of EPL, the BBC's coverage isn't bad.

/tk

[AlexB]

Bloody stupid game anyway, you wait for three months for the new season and what happens? After being the better team for 75 minutes you get beat 4-1 :mad:

Good job our manager concentrated on tightening up the defence over the summer isn't it? And then proceeded to take off one of the defence, that was looking decent up to then, to play a new signing, only for the team to concede three goals in 15 minutes :(

Another season of pure unadulterated joy for Leicester fans then... :rolleyes:

Yes it is only the first game, and we did look half decent for 75 minutes, but I needed a rant

[MikeVick7]

I'm starting to dig http://msn.foxsports.com/foxsoccer for coverage.

[Critch]

Bloody stupid game anyway, you wait for three months for the new season and what happens? After being the better team for 75 minutes you get beat 4-1 :mad:

Thanks to Setanta US, I got to see this game. The penalty that put Sheff Utd 2-1 up and blew the game open was a joke. Good luck with Bob "The Builder" Douglas in goals, I used to love him when he played for Celtic and I'll miss him now he's gone.

I mainly use the BBC website for updates, The Times (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/section/0,,27,00.html) has some good articles, and soccernet for their weekly updates on German and Spanish soccer. Phil Ball (their Spanish reporter) and Ulrich Hesse-Lichtenberger (their German reporter) are both good writers, if you can find Ulrich Hesse-Lichtenberger's book on the history of German soccer ("Tor!"), it's a great read. Other than that I keep to my own team''s boards for update, and TalkSport (http://www.talksport.co.uk) can be worth listening to.

[GoldenEagle]

Katon, where are you going to school at?

Where I go I live off campus and get a digital cable package which includes Fox Soccer Channel. I get two live EPL matches a week. This channel is everywhere but you probably can not get it on campus.

[SirFozzie]

Critch: You watching the two Champ League qualifiers on Sentanta today?

ManYoo live, and Everton on tape delay..

(one of my friends is grumbling, seeing as Man Yoo should coast easily and Everton has a tough matchup.. "it's like CBS showing Duke vs the Campbell fighting camels where there's a tough 8-9 matchup to show.")

[GoldenEagle]

Well at least we are getting five EPL matches and the PDL final. FSC is worth every penny.

[Critch]

Critch: You watching the two Champ League qualifiers on Sentanta today?

Yeah, planning on it. TiVo set, I'll probably end up watching the Everton game first, won't be home til then. Just means I've got to get through the afternoon without finding out the result of those games, which means I won't be able to go to all my usual websites that get me through an afternoon at work..

[Katon]

Katon, where are you going to school at?

Where I go I live off campus and get a digital cable package which includes Fox Soccer Channel. I get two live EPL matches a week. This channel is everywhere but you probably can not get it on campus.

I'm going to Williams. No idea what the TV situation's like, but I'd guess you're right about the chances of getting Fox Soccer Channel on-campus. I'm sure I'll work something out, though. If nothing else, I can usually find highlights of Chelsea matches on the web.

[AlexB]

Thanks to Setanta US, I got to see this game. The penalty that put Sheff Utd 2-1 up and blew the game open was a joke. Good luck with Bob "The Builder" Douglas in goals, I used to love him when he played for Celtic and I'll miss him now he's gone.


Tbh I'm one of the few City fans that didn't mind the 2nd penalty decision (the 1st was a no brainer): even though I didn;t see it until the replay, the ref was in the right position, and if it was the other way round in the same circumstances I would have been hurling abuse at the ref for being a muppet! (which he was for the vast majority of the game, but I think he did get this one right)

What was worse was the way we collapsed afterwards.

And Rab made a shaky start, the 1st and last goals were without doubt his fault. I;ve not seen a lot of him, but am hoping that as he was Celtic 1st choice for a few seasons he must be half decent...

How desparate have I become, holding out hope on a Scottish goalkeeper? I need a drink... :D

[ice4277]

I just got around to watching the Community Shield today. I thought it was a pretty entertaining match, considering its the first game of the year. I think it should be an exciting season in the Premiership, but I also think Chelsea have to be far and away the favorites to take the title. The more interesting aspect to me will be how they perform in the Champions League, and it will be interesting to see how Liverpool copes with a massive amount of matches, especially so many early in the season.

[SirFozzie]

Tbh I'm one of the few City fans that didn't mind the 2nd penalty decision (the 1st was a no brainer): even though I didn;t see it until the replay, the ref was in the right position, and if it was the other way round in the same circumstances I would have been hurling abuse at the ref for being a muppet! (which he was for the vast majority of the game, but I think he did get this one right)


Ahem.

[Critch]

And Rab made a shaky start, the 1st and last goals were without doubt his fault. I;ve not seen a lot of him, but am hoping that as he was Celtic 1st choice for a few seasons he must be half decent...

I think the fact that I said I loved him and was sad to see him leave Glasgow Celtic should give you a clue. I'm a Glasgow Rangers fan. :D

He's prone to terrible, terrible mistakes, he can be having a good solid game then suddenly fumble a long shot into the net, never a dull moment.

[Critch]

I'm going to Williams. No idea what the TV situation's like, but I'd guess you're right about the chances of getting Fox Soccer Channel on-campus. I'm sure I'll work something out, though. If nothing else, I can usually find highlights of Chelsea matches on the web.

Fox Soccer Channel seems to be springing up on more and more cable systems, so you should have a good chance of getting it. Judging by last year, FSC will cover around 50% of the Chelsea games live. Add in the ppv games at $20 a time (or $300 for the whole season with directv, not sure if all cable companies offer the package) and you should be able to see virtually every Chelsea League game for the season.

For the FA Cup, it'll be on ppv. Last season 2 out of the 3 of the Chelsea FA Cup games were covered, they skipped the 3rd round tie v Scunthorpe. So basically it'll be on as long as it's not Chelsea v somebody lower league that they should crush.

For Champions League, some games will be on ESPN2, some won't.

If you can spring for it, Setanta would be a good idea. Currently it's only available on DirecTV, they'll cover any Champion's League game that ESPN skips, plus they have Carling Cup coverage, and also show a good deal of the Chelsea TV coverage including tape delay of all the Chelsea games.

Basically, the games should be available if you're desperate enough.

[daedalus]

Jenas for £15-20M?Out of curiosity, how well do you rate him? Not so much in terms of monetary value but as a player. I've read about him plenty but have never seen a full match with him.

[Desnudo]

Out of curiosity, how well do you rate him? Not so much in terms of monetary value but as a player. I've read about him plenty but have never seen a full match with him.

My opinion is that he's overvalued because he's English. Hard to tell in the garbage environment he played in, but I think it's telling that no major team outside England has come in for him.

[Katon]

My opinion is that he's overvalued because he's English. Hard to tell in the garbage environment he played in, but I think it's telling that no major team outside England has come in for him.

Agreed. I don't watch all that many Newcastle matches, but the impression I've always had is of a good-but-not-great player. He's only getting this much talk because of the English press's habit of assuming that a big team will naturally go after the best English player at a given position.

[MIJB#19]

Here's some interesting soccer news from the Netherlands.

The (to me) local amateur club Excelsior Maassluis has knocked out professional team FC Den Bosch in the first round of the Amstel Cup (the national cup competition) with a 2-1 victory at home. In the second round they play a home game again, this time versus another first division (second level) team in VVV-Venlo. It is extra cool to me because two of the players in the Excelsior M. selection are 'kids' I used to play soccer with on the grass all around the neighbourhood when I was in high school.

[andy m]

northampton 1 v 2 barnet

[Critch]

Out of curiosity, how well do you rate him? Not so much in terms of monetary value but as a player. I've read about him plenty but have never seen a full match with him.

He's a good player, he won Young Player of the Year a couple of years ago, but he seems to have gone backwards since then, prone to disappearing from a game. Nobody realizes he's playing til he gets subbed. A move might be a good idea for him, kickstart him.

15mil for him seems a lot though, there's even been hints that he's no longer a first teamer at Newcastle with Emre and Parker coming into their midfield, and one of his reasons for leaving is the pressure of playing for Newcastle. Doesn't sound like the guy that Arsenal can rely on to me.

[Northwood_DK]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/n/newcastle_united/4196760.stm

England striker Michael Owen has agreed to join Newcastle from Real Madrid. Good for him. After the show Robinho put on in his first game for Real Owen would have spend a LOT of time on the bench again this season.

[moriarty]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/n/newcastle_united/4196760.stm

England striker Michael Owen has agreed to join Newcastle from Real Madrid. Good for him. After the show Robinho put on in his first game for Real Owen would have spend a LOT of time on the bench again this season.

Damn, damn, damn. I was really hoping 'pool would take him back and go with a more enterprising approach than our boring 4-5-1/pray Morientes can score more than 5 goals in a season.

[Critch]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/n/newcastle_united/4196760.stm

England striker Michael Owen has agreed to join Newcastle from Real Madrid. Good for him. After the show Robinho put on in his first game for Real Owen would have spend a LOT of time on the bench again this season.

So do the signings of Luque and Owen mean that Shearer ends his career at Newcastle on the bench?

[Critch]

Damn, damn, damn. I was really hoping 'pool would take him back and go with a more enterprising approach than our boring 4-5-1/pray Morientes can score more than 5 goals in a season.

Look on the bright side, at least Owen going elsewhere probably means that Cisse won't be leaving :D Doubt he'll be allowed to go to Marseille now.

For the Champions League in two weeks time it looks like Betis v Liverpool and Chelsea v Anderlecht will be on Setanta and ESPN2 gets the pick of the day with Lyon v Real Madrid. According to soccertv.com anyway.

[Northwood_DK]

So do the signings of Luque and Owen mean that Shearer ends his career at Newcastle on the bench?

I don’t really understand why Real Madrid and Liverpool could not agree on a deal. The price was around $30mil but as I understand Real have still not made all the payments on the original deal.

Alan Shearer will still have a role to play in Newcastle. The team have only 1 pint after 4 games and have still not scored a single goal. They need all the firepower they can get.

[Ajaxab]

This move would seem to open up a space for Shearer in the manager's seat. With the signings of Owen and Luque, the Magpies now have some strikers they didn't have a couple of weeks ago. Bye bye Sounness, hello Shearer?

[moriarty]

Look on the bright side, at least Owen going elsewhere probably means that Cisse won't be leaving :D Doubt he'll be allowed to go to Marseille now.


Unfortunately, Rafa insists on playing Cisse out of position on the right wing. Sigh.

I'll feel better if we use the money we would have spent on Owen on actually getting a decent right winger and another central defender (the thought of Josemi getting more playing time gives me heart palpatations).

[Critch]

I don’t really understand why Real Madrid and Liverpool could not agree on a deal. The price was around $30mil but as I understand Real have still not made all the payments on the original deal.

The story so far is that Owen chose Newcastle over Liverpool because Benitez couldn't guarentee him a starting position, he'd have to challenge Morientes for the 1 in Liverpool's 4-5-1.

[moriarty]

I don’t really understand why Real Madrid and Liverpool could not agree on a deal. The price was around $30mil but as I understand Real have still not made all the payments on the original deal.

Alan Shearer will still have a role to play in Newcastle. The team have only 1 pint after 4 games and have still not scored a single goal. They need all the firepower they can get.


I'm not sure that Real and Liverpool didn't agree to a deal ... but rather that Rafa wouldn't guarantee Owen playing time where Souness did. (edit - critch beat me to it).

Owen will get some goals for Newcastle, but they're still not a good team IMO. The best thing they can do is replace Souness as quickly as possible. Unfortunately for them, this transfer might ensure he stays for a while.

[Critch]

Owen will get some goals for Newcastle, but they're still not a good team IMO. The best thing they can do is replace Souness as quickly as possible. Unfortunately for them, this transfer might ensure he stays for a while.

I think they're a better team than you're giving them credit for. They've started the season with a tough run (other than the West Ham game, which was their one truely terrible performance so far. Not that they were great at Bolton either). Their problem is that they arent creating anything from midfield, they haven't scored a goal yet because they arent creating chances, not because of striker problems.

Once Parker settles and Emre shakes his injury, they'll be in a far better position to show how good they can be. Emre has looked great in his brief appearances so far.

Souness's biggest problem is that his midfield is still stocked with underperforming big names on big contracts that he didn't sign, Dyer, Jenas and Bowyer. If there's a more over-rated player in England than Bowyer, I don't know who it is.

[moriarty]

I think they're a better team than you're giving them credit for. They've started the season with a though run (other than the West Ham game, which was their one truely terrible performance so far

I think they're a good team (i.e. they have talent) but will underperform with Souness. Maybe he'll prove me wrong, but I suspect he'll be gone after this season.

Agreed on Bowyer though.

[Butter]

So, what's the deal with FSC carrying a Serie A game this past Saturday? I thought the Italian stuff was only on GolTV. I must've missed something.

[Critch]

So, what's the deal with FSC carrying a Serie A game this past Saturday? I thought the Italian stuff was only on GolTV. I must've missed something.

Italian teams are allowed to sell their home games individually, FSC picked up the rights to 4 teams that GolTV didn't get. So FSC has the rights to Lazio home games and three relegation candidates home games (can't remember who, I think Messina is one of them). They're planning on showing 20 Italian games this season.

[Critch]

I think they're a good team (i.e. they have talent) but will underperform with Souness. Maybe he'll prove me wrong, but I suspect he'll be gone after this season.

Oh yeah, I agree with you there, Souness isn't a great manager and he's not going to turn them into challengers. I think the problem seems to be deeper than just the manager though, Newcastle have underperformed for year.

[Icy]

Ahh guys, saw Robinho past Sunday in the R.Madrid game vs Cadiz, he is the magic. The match was really boring, as past year, R.Madrid has no midfield, just the defensors passing long to the mid attackers (Zidane mainly) to make a fast pass to Ronaldo or Raul (Well i know Raul played that match because he was listed in the lineup, not because he touched the ball once, well he did once, scored a goal but Ronaldo gave it to him, hew could have scored himself). Then when Cadiz tied the match and was dominating it, Robinho entered in the game and the magic explosion started. What a change in the game, he gave the speed, the fast passes betwen lines, the weird stuff with the ball until he past the ball deep to Ronaldo, Ronaldo used his great speed to give the death pass to Raul to only push the ball to score.

I really enjoyed that 20 minutes and all the press in Spain says the same, this year is going to be really nice to watch R.Madrid with Robinho, now let's see how Luxemburgo can handle as much stars in the team. He needs to replace somebody, Raul is named by everybody including me after the last 2 or 3 years where he is not the player he used to be, and even more after this first game where he didn't appear until he scored (and he is not like Ronaldo who can sit for a hole game and then score).

Try to look for the images from Robinho in that game from past Sunday, it will show you how beautifull can soccer be.

[Critch]

Yeah, the Cadiz v Real Madrid game was on live on GolTV over here. There was one bit where Robinho got the ball wide right, chiped it over the defenders head, nipped round him and was gone before the defender could react. Great. He also seemed prepared to lay the ball off, not just try to beat the whole team on his own like certain other high skill players do.

He's going to be great to watch this year.

[daedalus]

Want. To. Cry.

There was a brief - very brief - moment when Robinho considered Arsenal. Then went back to his original decision to join Real. Oh well.

I still think Real screwed up by signing Baptista for the hell of it then try to shoehorn him into a midfield slot. And I can't believe they'll be making money off of Owen. Damn them.

[ISiddiqui]

I think they're a good team (i.e. they have talent) but will underperform with Souness. Maybe he'll prove me wrong, but I suspect he'll be gone after this season.

Agreed on Bowyer though.
I think with Owen and Luque along with Parker and Emre, Newcastle will probablt do well enough to make the UEFA Cup with that talent. Souness's job should be ok for this year.

Oh, and I saw Robinho as well on GolTV.. wow... he'll be something in Europe.

[Critch]

Jermaine Jenas has signed for Spurs for 8mil pounds, less than the 15-20mil he was earlier rumored to be worth. Probably a good move for both sides, Newcastle were not getting much from Jenas and they've upgraded midfield with the aforementioned Emre and Parker, Spurs are getting an England international for a relatively cheap price. He'll be worth 8mil and more if he can recapture his earlier form.

It's the transfer deadline today, so far Jenas and the confirmation of the Owen move are the big news. Other than that it's still fairly quiet, Lee Young-Pyo to Spurs from PSV and Simao Sabrosa rumored to be signing for Liverpool from Benfica.

[Icy]

Ok with the money from Owen, R.Madrid is finishing negotiations today to bring the best young promissing defender in Spain, Sergio Ramos from Sevilla (19 years old and already into the Spanish national team). F.C Barcelona offered Saviola and money for him but he wanteds to come to R.Madrid. The deal has been published today as done, they just need to finish some details.

I'm happy for having him in our team but also for not letting Barcelona to get him :)

[ISiddiqui]

He'll be worth 8mil and more if he can recapture his earlier form.
Jenas is seriously overrated. He isn't worth the 8 mil, but we'll take it. He's too lazy to be anything decent... and will be on the bench most likely at Tottenham.

He was really only good for 1 year and has sucked horribly the last two seasons.

[ISiddiqui]

Speaking of Newcastle transfer news... ;).

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/story?id=341274&cc=5901

Peruvian midfielder Nolberto Solano was tonight on the verge of making a shock return to Newcastle just 19 months after leaving for Aston Villa.

The 30-year-old winger was undergoing a medical this evening after the two clubs agreed an undisclosed fee, believed to be in the region of the £1.5million for which he initially moved, with James Milner travelling in the opposite direction on loan for the rest of the season.

Newcastle confirmed the development, although with time running out before the closure of the transfer window at midnight, they were working desperately behind the scenes to complete the deal.

[moriarty]

Wow, Liverpool got exactly nobody before the trade deadline. Not only losing out on Michael Owen, but also missing out on Solano (who they could have desperately used on the right wing) and all their prospects.

While I'm glad we didn't throw money around foolishly (see Diouf, Diao, Cheryrou, etc...) we really needed someone ANYONE on the right wing. Could have used another defender too, although I hope Whitbread gets some opportunities to step up now. I'm trying to reamin optimistic .... but 4th place may be the best we can hope for this year.

[daedalus]

According to Sky, they seemed to have been chasing Simao from Benfica more than Solano. Looks like Benitez's attention was mainly in players from La Liga. Which makes sense, given that he probably know those players a lot better than players from the Premiership.

I still think they could be duking it out with Arsenal for 3rd (how pathetic is THAT?), especially if Benitez would be willing to play less defensively on the road in league games. Especially against lesser opponents who they should bury anyway.

[moriarty]

According to Sky, they seemed to have been chasing Simao from Benfica more than Solano. Looks like Benitez's attention was mainly in players from La Liga. Which makes sense, given that he probably know those players a lot better than players from the Premiership.

I still think they could be duking it out with Arsenal for 3rd (how pathetic is THAT?), especially if Benitez would be willing to play less defensively on the road in league games. Especially against lesser opponents who they should bury anyway.

That's the problem. They initially made overtures to Solano (who was very affordable given his age), and several others but then they made a last minute dally after Simao. The deal fell through, and by the time they went back to Solano, he was rightly miffed and signed with Newcastle. Don't get me wrong if they had pulled off Simao i would be happy, but they fact that they came away with nothing suggests they really botched the transfer process. This after they miscalculated on the Gonazlez work permit deal earlier.

They're still a better team than last year, but watching Arsenal play, Arsenal has much more class in the premier league - they are much more creative on offense. And I say that as a Liverpool supporter. We'll see what happens, and what occurs at the midseason transfer window, but I'd take 4th place at the moment.

[daedalus]

I think it's because Wenger has Arsenal on constant attack so everyone has to play defensive against us, especially the lower rated teams in the premiership. Where Benitez's policy of playing 4-5-1 on the road helps in European play, in my opinion, it hurts in league play since they don't offer the same "fear".

I don't really care about Owens (I don't think he fits Arsenal) or Jenas. In fact, I'm even over not getting Baptista and don't really care that Vieira was sold. I am miffed that we didn't bother with Davids and Bouma. No, Davids isn't what he once was. But he would have been someone who could have provided bite in the back and allow Fabregas to do his thing in attack. Especially given Gilberto's past issue with his back and the fact that I think trying to 50 games on him is silly. And, damn it, we're relying on two brittle commanding centrebacks and one very good and durable centreback who needs a commanding centreback to pair with to excel. With Bouma on hand, Cygan and his newfound big-scoring way could have just waited out his return to Ligue 1 on the bench in the reserves.

[Mac Howard]

I was surprised that Bouma went to the Premiership without much more competition for his signature. I would have been happy to see him at Utd :(

[daedalus]

I wouldn't have been. I don't really relish the possibility of a Bouma-Ferdinand pairing when Arsenal is trying to chase the Evil Empire. :D

[ISiddiqui]

US-Mexico tomorrow night folks! Winner gets in the WC (loser probably will as well sometime in the future). Of course, it goes against Boise St v. Georgia (thanks USSF!)

[Mac Howard]

I wouldn't have been. I don't really relish the possibility of a Bouma-Ferdinand pairing when Arsenal is trying to chase the Evil Empire. :D

You mean Silvestre doesn't do it for you? ;)

[daedalus]

Oh, no knock on Silvestre since I was under the impression that he was solid (although other seems to be down on him). I just dig both Bouma and Ferdinand. :)

[moriarty]

Uh-oh, England down to NIreland w/ 10 minutes to play. There's going to be holy hell to play if this holds up.

[andy m]

this is great news. the sooner sven gets fired the better, hopefully it will happen tomorrow.

it just shocks me repeatedly that he is unable to get such a decent bunch of players to play good football.

[moriarty]

this is great news. the sooner sven gets fired the better, hopefully it will happen tomorrow.

it just shocks me repeatedly that he is unable to get such a decent bunch of players to play good football.

I'm just listening to the commentary, but they sound totally uninspired and the 4-5-1 is apparently a dud.

[andy m]

well, the formation was a solid one, rooney and wright phillips playing off owen should work well, and beckham in the holding role is a good idea too, he can spray passes all over the field. but the team just seems to lack any desire or genuine will to win. and i feel that must be the managers fault. either he is unable to motivate them, or the players are unmotivatable, in which case he should drop them and pick someone else.

[SirFozzie]

belfast is burning... :)

Red Sox 1916-2004
N.Ireland over England 1927-2005

You Gotta Believe

[moriarty]

Is this enough to do in Sven?

[SirFozzie]

BTW, if Sven still has his job on sunday, he'll be lucky...

[andy m]

so long sven, and thanks for all the shite.

[Critch]

"Lord Nelson, Lord Beaverbrook, Sir Winston Churchill, Sir Anthony Eden, Clement Attlee, Henry Cooper, Lady Diana, Maggie Thatcher, can you hear me? Maggie Thatcher [...] your boys took a hell of a beating! Your boys took a hell of a beating!"

Great stuff, and made all the better by a Scotland win in Norway.

[Katon]

Have I ever mentioned how grateful I am to Peter Kenyon for screwing up his negotiations with Eriksson?

[AlexB]

well, the formation was a solid one, rooney and wright phillips playing off owen should work well, and beckham in the holding role is a good idea too, he can spray passes all over the field. but the team just seems to lack any desire or genuine will to win. and i feel that must be the managers fault. either he is unable to motivate them, or the players are unmotivatable, in which case he should drop them and pick someone else.

Have to disagree: we shoould not be trying to play off a 5 foot nothing centre forward (Owen): he should be playing off/with another forward. Rooney is wasted out wide as he does not get into the areas where he is really dangerous. Similarly Beckham looks excellent spraying the passes around but he is not doing damage with the passes from the position he is in (not his fault - it's the position he has been asked to play in). Plus with Beckham hitting these balls, it takes Gerrard and Lampard almost completely out of the game.

Out of our 6 attacking players, only Beckham and Wright-Phillips were in their natural positions, and it showed - they were the best two players in the first half when we were marginally better than the dire second half.

4-4-2 is our set-up, and unfortunately we have to drop one of Lampard/Gerrard - or Stevie G gets the wide left spot as in the Euros (beacuse I think Wright-Phillips has shown enough to start on the right)

I'm not sure if Sven should go, just because we are at a very critical point in the WC qualifiers - but having said that is the risk of a change less than the risk of him continuing to fail to generate performances?

His substitutions were strange: took Wright-Phillips off who, although he did have a slow start to the second half, was the main link with Beckham and our best attacking threat, while Gerrard and Lampard were anonymous all game (due to the 4-5-1 in my opinion). So we take off SWP, but then put Joe Cole on the right (when he has generally done OK on the left, apart from the Wales game), Beckham in the middle and Rooney out wide, which clearly wasn;t working.

Then he gets it right and takes off Gerrard and Lampard, for Defoe (who is too similar to Owen and I honestly can;t remember Defoe doing anything at all today, maybe beacuse of this), and then puts on Hargreaves to win the game! Can anyone tell me what Hargreaves actually does? All he did today was give the ball away once 25 yards out (for which we were lucky the ref gave a FK as the ball was about to run on to another NI player 20 yards out) and then very nearly does it again 5 minutes later?

We need to look at the forwards in the squad - we need something different: Owen and Defoe are like-for-like, Rooney isn't too far removed but far more skilful, and AJ is just not good enough. So we have very limited options. Heskey appears to be out of the picture, but he does give you different options - maybe Crouch is the alternative forward, but given his injury surely we should include Emile on the bench in Crouch's absence, as he gives you a physical presence up front, and he's got 3(?) goals this year, so is in form...

I'm not convinced by Sven, but it's clear the 4-5-1 was a knee jerk response to a horrendous performance in the Denmark friendly. It's also clear this doesn't work, and there are severe question marks over his motivational and tactical acumen (can anybody tell me one game in which Sven's England have looked better in the 2nd half than the 1st?).

Having said that, you have to admire Northern Ireland's work rate, belief and organisation - they deserved a result, created the best chance and put it away. We did nothing.

[AlexB]

Dola - (my first dola! Used correctly?)

Darren Bent was on the bench, who was kept out of the crunch U-21 game for this match, and is a bit more physical, and has also started the season very well, but maybe it was a bit unfair on him to throw him on for his first game in the circumstances...

Which begs the question why have him on the bench in the first place if you weren't going to use him?

[Critch]

belfast is burning... :)

Only one half of belfast will be celebrating tonight, the other half's team got beat 1-0 by France in Dublin. Great goal by Henry.

[McSweeny]

yep, we're crying for The Republic as they lost 1-0 against France in Dublin. They now have to win at Cyprus and win in Dublin against Switzerland and hope for some other favorable results to qualify. Very frustrating, i had thought that Ireland had a very good chance to win the group.

[Critch]

I was thinking it looked bad for Ireland, being 3 points behind both France and Switzerland, but looking at the remaining fixtures I'd still expect them to get the playoff. France have still to play Switzerland, so they're both not getting full points.

As long as Ireland can get full points in Cyprus, they'll pretty much be going into the final game (home to Switzerland) knowing that a win gets them the playoff. Cyprus is the key.

[Mr. Wednesday]

Ugh, sucks that Ireland lost as that puts France in good shape to qualify. :(

(One less shot for the U.S. to vulture a seed...)

[bhlloy]

A few thoughts from a non-England fan:

The substitutions almost deserve to get Sven fired on their own. What the hell Hargreaves is going to add to the attack in a (pretty much - they must have known Poland were winning) must win game I have no idea. Wright Phillips was the only England player that looked dangerous. Defoe and Owen are the exact same player and Bent has been on fire so far this season. Just some dumb, dumb moves.

The 4-5-1 just doesn't seem to work. I don't know if Gerrard, Beckham and Lampard just can't play together together (too many cooks and all that) but none of them is shining. When you have players that world-class, a formation shift really shouldn't matter that much to their individual play.

Owen has always seemed to play well off somebody else. I'm not sure he can create his own chances in a 4-5-1.

Rooney is not a left winger in a million years. Playing behind the striker or in a free role fine, but he can't play as an out and out winger. He looked to be completely wasted in this role.

Carragher again seemed to be way below international standard. That shouldn't be a long term issue, but I'd maybe give Upson a go instead if Terry or Campbell are out.

[bhlloy]

DOLA - wow I just read Jari's post and we pretty much said the same thing. I guess great minds and all that...

[AlexB]

DOLA - wow I just read Jari's post and we pretty much said the same thing. I guess great minds and all that...

At least it reassures me that my blow off steam post retained a sense of objectivity ;)

But if we can see this, as I assume normal fans, why cant somebody paid £4m a year see it?

[Mac Howard]

I dislike the 4-5-1/4-3-3 system intensely. It's particularly useless against bunker defences. If your two front wide men stay out wide your central striker is massively outnumbered. If they play narrow then the opposition fullbacks become centre backs and their wide midfielders central midfielders. You're running into a brick wall of two banks of four defenders. The opposition penalty area looks like Picadilly Circus.

Not only that but at least one and sometimes two of your central midfielders become surplus to requirements - hence Lampard's and Gerrard's performances in this game.

And in England's case, in Rooney and Owen they have a natural front pairing - not two of an effective front three.

Against the bunker defence you need to two wide men to stretch them and two men in the middle up front to finish. That comes from 4-4-2 or 3-5-2. With little attacking pressure to cope with two men in CM are enough.

Go, Sven, go! England have the best collection of individuals they've had for a long time - and the worst team.

[terpkristin]

Reminds me of the USA Basketball team during the 2004 Olympics...a great team, talent-wise (ok, somewaht arguable, but anyway), but they couldn't figure out how to work together and play as a team..

That WILL be the downfall of most teams in situations like this. Including England, me thinks...

/tk

[ISiddiqui]

Ugh, sucks that Ireland lost as that puts France in good shape to qualify. :(

(One less shot for the U.S. to vulture a seed...)
Did you REALLY think France was going to muck it up that badly, earlier results notwithstanding?


I will say that the England - Northern Ireland result was funny as Hell. I mean if you stuck with Sven this long, you deserve it, frankly.

[andy m]

the fans don't deserve any of this at all, they can't influence the ridiculous decision to keep sven in charge for so long when its plain he has the tactical genius of a squid.

[Sadalia]

Odds are they still won't qualify, but

Norway 1 : Scotland 2

made me very happy indeed. If only they'd managed to hold on against Italy the other night I'd be more optimistic. Probably just as well: optimism and following Scotland usually do not mix well.

Didn't get to see the game (I'm in Chicago), but from the papers it sounds like Kenny Miller, of all people, is all of a sudden striking fear into international defences. Weird.

[Critch]

Didn't get to see the game (I'm in Chicago), but from the papers it sounds like Kenny Miller, of all people, is all of a sudden striking fear into international defences. Weird.

Hey, that's no excuse, it was on Setanta USA :) Surprisingly we looked good. Took our chances well, then looked controlled in the second half. Ferguson and Fletcher ran midfield. Despite having a lot of posession in the second half, Norway didnt look like getting back into it.

Pity we hung on with Berti Vogts for so long, Walter Smith a couple of games earlier and we'd be top of the group
:D

[Sadalia]

Hey, that's no excuse, it was on Setanta USA :) Surprisingly we looked good. Took our chances well, then looked controlled in the second half. Ferguson and Fletcher ran midfield. Despite having a lot of posession in the second half, Norway didnt look like getting back into it.

Pity we hung on with Berti Vogts for so long, Walter Smith a couple of games earlier and we'd be top of the group
:D

Yes, Vogts should have gone long before he did: any time you have a team looking repeatedly clueless (bit like England's recent games from the sound of it) you should take a good look at the manager. So, Scotland have to win their last two games and hope Norway lose one of theirs. Otherwise, it'll be another Scottish "if only...", but with hope for a good qualifying campaign for the next European Championships. Which, according to The Scotsman, might be tougher, since Scotland could slip into the fifth band of seeds due to recent awfulness. Thanks, Berti.

[andy m]

scotland fans know whats coming though. this always happens. a false dawn, raised hopes, shattered dreams. :(

[Critch]

Not this time, we're already pretty much out and we're blaming it all on Berti. So anything that happens now is a happy shock, no heartbreak if we don't make it.

Heartbreak will be making it's summer home further south, hopefully.

To be honest there's not really been any heartbreak about the Scotland World Cup team since '78. Since then it's been more knowing that we arent going to win and quite happy when the team comes back having not made asses of themselves on an international stage.

[terpkristin]

Just saw in my BBC Daily Email (where I get soccer news and international news and Arsenal news) that it's been said that Sven's position is safe...that's usually the kiss of death here in the States. As soon as someone is told that they're going to keep their job, they get ousted pretty quickly (at least, in sports)...

Link (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/internationals/4228608.stm)
England manager Sven-Goran Eriksson held talks with Football Association officials on the flight home after his side's defeat in Northern Ireland. But FA sources have told BBC Sport that Eriksson's job is not in immediate danger and that the Swede still has the support of the players.

The 1-0 defeat left England five points behind leaders Poland in Group Six.

Eriksson has cancelled plans to attend the Ashes Test at The Oval to avoid taking the focus away from the cricket.


Eriksson had indicated before the defeat in Belfast that he would attempt to rearrange his diary to watch the second day's action at The Oval.


"I hope to go see it on Friday. If you live in England, you should go to see it at least once to know something about it," he revealed earlier this week.

England now need to win their final two home games to be sure of qualifying for the finals in Germany next summer.

"According to one FA source I spoke to, 'Sven has a lot of thinking to do', particularly about the midfield and about the formations," said BBC Five Live football correspondent Jonathan Legard.

"But nobody I spoke to believes those thoughts should involve resignation, and nor was anyone at the FA looking to sack him.

"He's got this contract until 2008. They are confident he will still take England to the World Cup.

"I was told also that he has not lost the players, although one person did tell me he thought David Beckham was running the show, which is a possible explanation why Steven Gerrard and Frank Lampard are not quite on the same wavelength at the moment."

There were calls for Eriksson's sacking from England fans during and after the game in Belfast on Wednesday.

But Eriksson, whose contract runs until 2008, insists he has no intention of quitting.


"If you want to know who is responsible, then it's always me. I have to turn it right," he said.

"It's about working, talking and not panicking. I could not even dream of not qualifying for the World Cup.

"We have to win the next two games. Will I quit if we don't? We are going to win them and that's it."

/tk

[Galaxy]

Though I would bump this:

The biggest suprise is in Scotland with Hearts. Are they for real? Where did this team come from to take on The Old Firm?

[Critch]

They were bought over by a Lithuanian businessman with money to burn, he's brought in a good manager (George Burley) and brought in a number of good players, mainly on loan deals. Whether he's serious about Hearts and is an Abramovich-lite, or whether he's a money maker with some scam going on remains to be seen. Rumors that he may be the later, some fairly shady things are rumored to be going on. Hearts are also helped by the fact that the Old Firm are as disjounted and as ordinary as they have been in a long time, it's probably over 20 years since they were both this poor at the same time.

Good luck to the Jambos though, hopefully they don't mess it up on the last day of the season like they did last time they were serious challengers. The sight of grown men openly crying in the streets while wearing maroon and white scarfs is something that still haunts me even now, 20 years later. If something that you thought was really funny can haunt you.

[Galaxy]

They were bought over by a Lithuanian businessman with money to burn, he's brought in a good manager (George Burley) and brought in a number of good players, mainly on loan deals. Whether he's serious about Hearts and is an Abramovich-lite, or whether he's a money maker with some scam going on remains to be seen. Rumors that he may be the later, some fairly shady things are rumored to be going on. Hearts are also helped by the fact that the Old Firm are as disjounted and as ordinary as they have been in a long time, it's probably over 20 years since they were both this poor at the same time.

Good luck to the Jambos though, hopefully they don't mess it up on the last day of the season like they did last time they were serious challengers. The sight of grown men openly crying in the streets while wearing maroon and white scarfs is something that still haunts me even now, 20 years later. If something that you thought was really funny can haunt you.

Shady things, such as?

[Critch]

The Lithuanian who owns Hearts (Vladimir Romanov, an ethnic Russian with a fairly shady past in black marketeering) also owns a handful of other teams in Eastern Europe, it's hard to be sure who he owns though. Officially he doesn't own a single share in Hearts either, he just has a controlling interest in some companies that do own some Hearts shares.

Allegedly none of the players signed by Hearts are officially registered with Hearts, they're all officially owned by another of Romanov's teams, Kaunus in Lithuania and only at Hearts on loan deals. So when/if Hearts sell on these players, they'll see none of the profits. It gives the impression that Romanov is signing players (he's been signing players without the consent of the Hearts team manager), using Hearts as a shopwindow to show them off with a view to selling them on with the profit being directed elsewhere. Recently Romanov has also been in talks with another Scottish club about finding them players and adding them to his stable of clubs (something that breaks UEFA rules, but is hard to prove if the trail to who actually owns the shares is muddy enough, like with Abramovich's Chelsea/CSKA/Corinthians rumors.)

When Romanov took control of Hearts they were in serious debt, now they still have the same debt. The fact that reducing the debts seems to have been overlooked raises questions about how long term the plans for Hearts are.

Or maybe it's all just distrust of a shady Eastern European businessman who buys over a Scottish club, with the press assuming he's being driven by something more than a love of soccer. Who knows? Maybe it'll all turn out ok for Hearts.

[SirFozzie]

Interesting situation (brought up over on BigSoccer)


Forgive the wholesale quote from a guy from BarraBrava, but he does such a good job of summing up the situation:

Quote:
Originally Posted by BBBulldog
Not sure if anyone's aware of this but since Red Bull owner took over Austria Salzburg he

1) changed club name from SV Austria Salzburg to Redbull Salzburg
2) changed their colors from violet/white to red/white/blue
3) changed traditional AS sign to a sign with red bull logo
4) violet is prohibited color on stadium, people wearing it are banned from grounds/arrested
5) changed club est. year from 1933 to 2005
6) new matches are like a disco show, they have laser lights going around stands during game
.......

http://www.tgs92.com/tradition/index-uk.html

http://www.violett-weiss.at/index.en.php


Emphasis mine.

Barra Brava have done their part for solidarity with Salzburg:
http://www.violett-weiss.at/img/solidaritaet/us2.jpg

And as a former Salzburger myself I'd like to do something similar. OK with everyone?

Oh, and by the way - Boycott Red Bull.

-Doug

[Critch]

I read about the Salzburg thing on another website, pretty sad. Name changes seem to be fairly common in Austria though, Not that long since Austria Salzburg were Casino Salzburg.

It's not all bad though, Sturm Graz in Austria are apparently officially now called Puntigamer Sturm Graz after an Austrian beer, and if they hadn't done that I would never have gone to the Puntigamer website and discovered the greatest German language drinking song ever :)

hxxp://www.puntigamer.at/

[Critch]

I refuse to let this thread die :D

So, anybody see the Arsenal second penalty at the weekend? One of the most creative missed penalties of all time.

Other than that, boring boring Chelsea.

[FrogMan]

Well, I could start posting in this thread since I've now found my new most favourite TV channel: FSW :D

Just a couple of weeks ago, I saw that my digital TV provider had just started including that channel in our regular listing. My new favourite TV show is the "EPL Review Show" that runs on Sunday night, simply an awesome hour with only highlights, wow...

Well, that's all for now...

FM

[moriarty]

Well, I could start posting in this thread since I've now found my new most favourite TV channel: FSW :D

Just a couple of weeks ago, I saw that my digital TV provider had just started including that channel in our regular listing. My new favourite TV show is the "EPL Review Show" that runs on Sunday night, simply an awesome hour with only highlights, wow...

Well, that's all for now...

FM

I'd also recommend Fox Football Friday (Friday evenings). Basically a cheesily produced soccer show with two dorky guys sitting in a bar discussing the upcoming weekend games and any soccer related issues. Goofy, but I like it for some reason.

[moriarty]

So, anybody see the Arsenal second penalty at the weekend? One of the most creative missed penalties of all time.


Dola,

I was really hoping they would lose/tie the game on account of that missed penalty ... but there's no justice in the world.

BTW - I'm increasingly having a love/hate relationship w/ my Liverpool team. Every time they win in Europe I cheer, every time they look like crap in the premiership I curse. You think Chelsea is boring .... we've got 4 strikers (for about 40MM pounds) who can't score a goal to save their lives.

[FrogMan]

I'd also recommend Fox Football Friday (Friday evenings). Basically a cheesily produced soccer show with two dorky guys sitting in a bar discussing the upcoming weekend games and any soccer related issues. Goofy, but I like it for some reason.
oh, thanks for the recommendation. I'll have to see when it's on cause I'm usually out of the house on Friday evening. The review show is nice since they have it on Sunday from 8 to 9 or something like that, when the wife is sleeping and I don't have access to the computer, yet kids are either sleeping, or playing by themselves :)

FM

[Young Drachma]

Anyone know what the deal is with Freddy Adu and whether he's warranted in bitching or if he's just becoming a spoiled athlete? I wasn't sure what to make of it.

[ISiddiqui]

Whether he is or isn't, MLS better watch out. He's close to the age where he can just jump ship to Europe. Or maybe part of this is preparing for that.

[terpkristin]

Anyone know what the deal is with Freddy Adu and whether he's warranted in bitching or if he's just becoming a spoiled athlete? I wasn't sure what to make of it.
As a DC United fan, as I see it, there are two sides to the Adu coin.
1) He's a superstar player in terms of popularity. He doesn't get play time, fans get upset, they stop coming to games, team loses revenue, etc etc. That's not good.

2) He hasn't been playing well lately. Period. The most recent few games I've seen him in, he was downright dreadful. He wasn't keeping up with the play, he wasn't getting to the ball on passes, wasn't distributing the ball well (bad passes) and if he decided to hang on to the ball, he would dribble into a veritable pack of defenders and lose the ball there. That's just not good soccer, which doesn't help the team win, which means they don't win championships, so fans get upset and stop coming to games, so team loses revenue, etc etc.

Personally I think he's being a whiny baby and if he really thinks it's time to move on, so be it, just do it already. He's not getting a lot of play time right now because though he's good, he's not playing well and there are other DCU players that are playing better. It's not rocket science to figure out that you play the players who are playing better if you want to win...

Just my $0.02. I side with Coach Nowak on this one.

/tk

[SirFozzie]

Guh, you're a Dog Crap United fan, tk?

I liked you so much too.. ;)

(Just teasing ya :D)

Adu was whiny, but some of the details coming out about Nowak, who's insisting that Adu apologize to the full team after players told Adu that no apology was necessary.. urgh.. no good guys in this one.

[Neuqua]

As a Chicago Fire supporter, Nowak can do no wrong.

:)

[Critch]

BTW - I'm increasingly having a love/hate relationship w/ my Liverpool team. Every time they win in Europe I cheer, every time they look like crap in the premiership I curse. You think Chelsea is boring .... we've got 4 strikers (for about 40MM pounds) who can't score a goal to save their lives.

I don't really think Chelsea are boring, I just think Chelsea winning and running away with the league is boring. Though they didn't win this week, so my timing wasn't very good. Chelsea are worth watching just to see Makelele, one of the true top class players around at the moment, everything he does just oozes calmness and a remarkable reading of the game.

Liverpool, on the other hand, are very boring :D

[moriarty]

Anyone know what the deal is with Freddy Adu and whether he's warranted in bitching or if he's just becoming a spoiled athlete? I wasn't sure what to make of it.

IMO - Adu isn't entirely in the wrong, but his statements show more frustration than anything. Adu has been very streaky, he has a game where he looks great followed by a game where he looks like a 16 year old. In his defense, you could argue that regular playing time (starting every game) would make him more consistent. Also in his defense, his starting/non-starting seems somewhat random. You would think he would be rewarded for playing a good game with a start next game, and penalized for a bad game by not starting the next game, etc... It doesn't normally work that way though. As Adu pointed out, he was MLS player of the week one week and not even starting the next game. Not a lot of logic to some his starts/subs appearances.

On the other end of the stick ... Adu has been very inconsistent. When he's off, he clearly doesn't belong in their starting eleven. Adu also has made comments about how not starting consistently has hurt his chances for making the World Cup team in 2006. This is clearly silly as having watched him in Holland for the Under 19 (I think it was 19?) championships ... he really struggled. I can't imagine him have a legitimate case to make the WC team.

I think Freddy is frustrated because his development has stalled. I fully expect him to get sent to NY next year and make a jump to Europe as soon as he is old enough (although i think his suitors over there will decline unless he progresses more in the next couple of years).

[daedalus]

Not sure how many of y'all are really interested but here's a pretty spiffy highlight of Titi's second goal (http://daedalus.fastmail.fm/files/Sunderland-11.05_Henry_Hit.avi) [*warning* - file is 7.4mb] against Sunderland this week. I'm obviously biased but I thought it was a darn spiffy looking goal.

Also, pretty impressive to look at was this miss (http://daedalus.fastmail.fm/files/Sunderland-11.05_Henry_Miss.avi) [*warning* - file is 4.5mb]. Even if one gets the sense that it was a bit too damn cheeky and if he would have just brought the ball down, he would have had a one-on-one against the keeper and probably had a fairly easy one to go on.

[GoldenEagle]

Did anyone catch that Chasetown-Oldham game? I was hoping for the upset. Chasetown just could not pull it off. Chris Day was the starting keeper for Oldham. If you read FM's dynasty, you should know him. Mark Hughes sounds real familar as well.

Chasetown is a part of some lower-league. I think it is two divisions below the Conference North/South but I am not sure.

[Critch]

So Chelsea aren't unbeatable after all. That's nice.

Fletcher was trying to head the ball back across goal and got luck though, if you ask me. RvN was lurking over there. And it was some desperation defending for the last 30 minutes or so, changed days when a team can go to Old Trafford and have Man Utd scrambling to hold on for the victory.

Don't know if everybody caught the fallout from Roy Keane's interview on MUTV last week, he was a bit outspoken about some of his teammates. So outspoken that the interview was pulled and not shown. Alledgedly he named a number of players who were not good enough to play for Man Utd (Richardson, Alan Smith, Fletcher, O'Shea, Liam Miller) and then got stuck into Rio Ferdinand for acting like a superstar and taking things easy (something about it taking more than 20 good minutes against Spurs to be a superstar). Probably mainly true, but maybe not good for team morale for him to say it in such a way. They got the win today though, so maybe it worked.

[Critch]

Did anyone catch that Chasetown-Oldham game?

Yeah, I caught it. Not a bad game, definetly not the worst I've seen this weekend (that honor goes to the M'gladbach v Hamburg game this morning, which stunk even more than the Lazio v Inter game yesterday). The small crowd and the microphones near the field of play showed that while the players on show might not be the best players in the world, they can swear with the best of them :)

The tie might be the best result Chasetown could hope for, a replay at Oldham should bring them in more cash than they normally see in a season. Could make the club financially secure for a few seasons.

[SirFozzie]

Did anyone catch that Chasetown-Oldham game? I was hoping for the upset. Chasetown just could not pull it off. Chris Day was the starting keeper for Oldham. If you read FM's dynasty, you should know him. Mark Hughes sounds real familar as well.

Chasetown is a part of some lower-league. I think it is two divisions below the Conference North/South but I am not sure.

The difference between Oldham and Chasetown was SEVEN divisions.

Even in the 100+ year history of the FA CUp, no team has ever pulled off such a differential upset

[SirFozzie]

Oldham are in League 1..

League Two
Conference National
Conference Regional

Northern Premier/Southern Premier/Isthmien Premier
Norhtern/Southern/Isthmien First division
15 Feeder leagues, one of which is the Midland Football Alliance, which Chasetown is currently 14th in that league.

[GoldenEagle]

That is pretty amazing stuff. I wonder if those guys knew they were watched in the United States. They could have won too, if not from a great save from Chris Day.

[Critch]

The replay of the Oldham v Chasetown tie was this afternoon. No fairytale upset though, Oldham won 4-0. Still a nice earner for Chasetown.

[AlexB]

Breaking news: Roy Keane has left Man Utd by mutual consent, as his position has become untenable after his recent criticisms of certain players (rumoured to include Darren Fletcher, John O'Shea, Alan Smith, Liam Miller)

Appoarently while the infamous interview was not released to the public, it was played to the team, and Keane stood by his comments.

As such, it's hardly surprising that his position has become untenable.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/m/man_utd/4449396.stm

[Mac Howard]

Just read the reports myself. I'm stunned!

Whether it's because of the criticism we don't know - I suspect the bbc is merely trying to make sense of this with Keane and Utd publicly insisting on what a wonderul club/servant Utd/Keane has been. There's also a report of a bust-up between Keane and Ferguson this week in which Keane walked out.

[Critch]

Wonder where he'll end up next? There have been constant rumors that he wants to sign for Glasgow Celtic to end his career there, but early indications are that Gordon Strachan (the new Celtic manager) isn't interested. Keane would be too expensive on the salary front, plus Strachan is trying to turn Celtic into more of a fast passing team so Keane wouldn't fit that style so well. They've already got Neil Lennon as their immobile aging midfield anchor.

(edit to save dola - Early rumors are that Keane threw a punch at Sir Awex, hence the early departure. Probably just a rumor, but not really out of character.)

[Crapshoot]

Wow. End of an era. Didn't always like the man, but impossible not to respect him. The single player most responsible for United's success over the last 12 years. Best 3.75 million pounds Ferguson ever spent.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Okay, I understand the Keane/ManU thing in terms of their place in English football reasonably well I think, but I'm wondering ... what would be an American sport parallel for this? I first thought of something involving the Yankees but they've always got some sort of turmoil going on. Next thought was Favre taking a poke at his head coach ... IF his coach was Vince Lombardi.

Anybody who understands this better wanna come up with a more fitting parallel?

[Sadalia]

I can't think of any close parallels to Keane in American sports, but add to Favre a violent temper expressed both on and off the field and, recently at least, a significant lack of respect for his younger teammates and your analogy might come fairly close. Though you'd have to make Lombardi a little more prone to purple-faced rages, as well.

Keane has looked constantly on the verge on snapping for a while now. If he wants to keep playing I'm sure a club will pick him up, but I wouldn't want him on my team. Of course, chances of him signing for Aberdeen are pretty slim.

[Mac Howard]

To describe it as a "violent temper" is to grossly over-simplify it. He's a driven player who has enormous iinfluence on the commitment and effort of his colleagues. His leadership more than anything else is what Utd will miss and what they'll find hardest to replace.

[Sadalia]

To describe it as a "violent temper" is to grossly over-simplify it. He's a driven player who has enormous iinfluence on the commitment and effort of his colleagues. His leadership more than anything else is what Utd will miss and what they'll find hardest to replace.

I agree he has those qualities; I think Favre does too, and my post was a comparison of the two. The temper is one of the significant differences between them.

[AlexB]

If Rodney Harrison had been at the Pats for a few more years, and they had had success all that time, would have been a similar scenario: used to be a dirty player - now is physical, but a veteran leader.

The main problems in finding an NFL analogy are that there have been no teams constantly at the top as long as Man U, and few players at a single team for 12 years like Roy Keane. Harrison's the best I got,

[Desnudo]

If Rodney Harrison had been at the Pats for a few more years, and they had had success all that time, would have been a similar scenario: used to be a dirty player - now is physical, but a veteran leader.

The main problems in finding an NFL analogy are that there have been no teams constantly at the top as long as Man U, and few players at a single team for 12 years like Roy Keane. Harrison's the best I got,

I think hockey could provide a comparison. Maybe Mark Messier on the old Edmonton Oilers or Rangers teams.

[Galaxy]

What's the deal with Henry? Will Arsenal try to move him next year for a fee, if they can't get him sign a new deal?

Also, ManU seems ready to make the defender from Bayern Munichen (forgot his name)the highest paid player in the Premiership next summer.

[Katon]

Midfielder. Michael Ballack. Who's not really a direct replacement for Keane stylistically, but is still the best midfielder available, so this news probably makes the transfer even more likely.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Though you'd have to make Lombardi a little more prone to purple-faced rages, as well.

So ... Bill Parcells with Lombardi's prestige then.

[SirFozzie]

Wow.. a friend tipped me to a site where a brave intrepid soul tracks the average home attendance for every single team in English Football (in the semi-pro leagues and up).

The breakaway ManYoo Fans who created FC United Of Manchester? They have their club in 92nd place in all of English soccer in average attendance.. ahead of a couple League Two teams and most of the Conference (including, sadly my Cambridge United). Just having FC United come to your team For a North West Counties Division 2 game, can boost your TOTAL attendance for the year by 200%. Sheesh.

The Official List from 1-534. (http://www.tonykempster.btinternet.co.uk/attcomp.htm)

[AlexB]

Wow.. a friend tipped me to a site where a brave intrepid soul tracks the average home attendance for every single team in English Football (in the semi-pro leagues and up).

The breakaway ManYoo Fans who created FC United Of Manchester? They have their club in 92nd place in all of English soccer in average attendance.. ahead of a couple League Two teams and most of the Conference (including, sadly my Cambridge United). Just having FC United come to your team For a North West Counties Division 2 game, can boost your TOTAL attendance for the year by 200%. Sheesh.

The Official List from 1-534. (http://www.tonykempster.btinternet.co.uk/attcomp.htm)

Gotta admire the hardcore support at Weston St Johns, Bookham and British American Tobacco Sports - season lows for all three the grand total of two!

They would have had a gateman, maybe a steward and maybe someone selling tea/burgers: there was a good chance that there were more staff than spectators - and they still had to queue for 20 minutes to use the toilet at half time - go figure :D

[Abe Sargent]

Hello Bolton.

-Anxiety

[Crapshoot]

So ... Bill Parcells with Lombardi's prestige then.

Pretty much. Heck, thing of Alex Ferguson as Tom Landry in Dallas - and Roy Keane is Roger Staubach. Except he wasn't the sexy star, but the inspirational midfield leader.

[Icy]

Big bad news in Spanish La Liga, Raul from R.Madrid broke his knee and said bye to the rest of the season. This is his first big injury in his career.

[daedalus]

Ow. I like Raul. :(

[kingfc22]

Will Raul be ready for the WC?

[AlexB]

Sad news: one of the players considered by many to be alongside Pele (including by Pele himself) as the greatest player eve, George Best is in his final hours. :(

After a life struggle against alcoholism, and diminishing health, although he pulled through a near fatal lung infection last month, he has relapsed and the doctor says he is extremely unlikely to see it through tomorrow.

Although I am not old enough to have ever seen him play live, his highlight reel is pretty amazing, and despite suffering a period of ridicule for his drunkeness, over the last few years he has refound the respect of the sports media.

I had the opportunity to sit at the same 10-seat table as him at a sportsman's dinner a few years back, and he was sober, funny and intelligent: nothing like the tabloid image he had been given, at least on that one occasion.

[There are still many who callously are saying that because he has had a liver transplant and by all accounts occasionally fell off the wagon, that he deserves to die??? FWIW I really don't get this - how can people wish this upon anyone, especially somebody that 99.99% of those saying this have never met the man and cannot say with any certainty what he has/hasn't done?]

Whatever the truth, George Best is/was/will always be footballing legend, and one of the all-time greats. He will be missed.

[Icy]

Will Raul be ready for the WC?
Nobody is sure, he will be recovered from the injury... but probably not in good form.

[Super Ugly]

Sad news: one of the players considered by many to be alongside Pele (including by Pele himself) as the greatest player eve, George Best is in his final hours. :(

After a life struggle against alcoholism, and diminishing health, although he pulled through a near fatal lung infection last month, he has relapsed and the doctor says he is extremely unlikely to see it through tomorrow.

Although I am not old enough to have ever seen him play live, his highlight reel is pretty amazing, and despite suffering a period of ridicule for his drunkeness, over the last few years he has refound the respect of the sports media.

I had the opportunity to sit at the same 10-seat table as him at a sportsman's dinner a few years back, and he was sober, funny and intelligent: nothing like the tabloid image he had been given, at least on that one occasion.

[There are still many who callously are saying that because he has had a liver transplant and by all accounts occasionally fell off the wagon, that he deserves to die??? FWIW I really don't get this - how can people wish this upon anyone, especially somebody that 99.99% of those saying this have never met the man and cannot say with any certainty what he has/hasn't done?]

Whatever the truth, George Best is/was/will always be footballing legend, and one of the all-time greats. He will be missed.



Very sad indeed, and I have no interest in football. Not wishing to sound dippy, but I hope he finds peace. I was driving home from work this evening and heard the doctor's statement on Radio 4 ... I dunno, I just felt like it wasn't necessary. I know that George Best is/was a legend to so many people, but it seemed a little undignified to me, to be hearing his condition relayed like that.

And all this comes just as we get our 24-hour licencing laws ... :(

[Mac Howard]

I was privileged to see Best play live. I recall a shudder of expectation would go through the Old Trafford crowd whenever he was on the ball. There was something simply magical about his play.

Fortunately, in time, he will be remembered by all soccer fans for what he did on the field and not for the manner of his death.

Glazer, Keane and now Best. It's not been a great year for Utd fans :( :(

[Critch]

Not sure if this would be best in here or in the FM2006 thread.

One of the documents that Jose Mourinho uses to prepare for games has been leaked onto the internet, it's from the recent Chelsea v Newcastle Utd game and is a breakdown on how Newcastle play from one of his scouts (Andre Vilas Boas, apparently).

Main points are that Boumsong is a disaster waiting to happen and Shea Given is seriously inconsistent, but there's a lot of stuff that isn't obvious too :)

5 page pdf, full of notes and diagrams. Interesting stuff.

hxxp://www.badongo.com/file.php?file=Chelsea+Briefing+of+NUFC__2005-11-29_19-11-2005.pdf

[AlexB]

Two stunning incidents in the lower echelons of English football today:

QPR goalkeeper Simon Royce was attacked by a fan after the final whistle: Royce is big enough that it was basically a wrestling match in the net, although the fan got a couple of punches in. The stewards were just stood there watching though! It only got stopped as players and coaches from both sides rushed to help Royce, at which would a couple of stewards obviously felt strength in numbers and joined in trying to stop the guy and another who came on to the pitch at the same time as the rest of the players came to the scene. No-one was hurt at all, but this could have been scary - Stoke fans are absolute nutters.

Even worse than this, in the Northampton/Stevenage FA Cup 2nd round match, the cameras clearly caught a row between the two sides' goalkeeper coaches: as they were surrounded by fellow coaches, the Stevenage coach (Lionel Perez) did the old two fingers into the eyes of Dave Watson. The guy deserves to be banned for life tbh, no matter what the provocation: at least if you're gonna row with the other team, be a man and throw a punch - don't stick your fingers in someone's eyes: that is bang out of order.

Police are investigating both incidents.

[terpkristin]

Both of those stories are absolutely crazy, JRS!

I can't believe the stewards didn't jump in to protect Royce.

Those types of things should NOT be a part of soccer/football. That's just absurd.

/tk

[SirFozzie]

and more fun stuff from the wacky world of footy.. Two teams both took a lap of honor as champions in Brazil today. It's up to the courts to decide..

Court throws Brazilian league finale in to chaos

RIO DE JANEIRO, Dec 4 (Reuters) - Corinthians claimed the Brazilian championship in chaotic circumstances on Sunday, despite losing their final game 3-2 at Goias and a court injunction declaring the competition sub judice.

The Brazilian Football Confederation (CBF) proclaimed them 2005 champions on its official website and the team completed a lap of honour while thousands of Corinthians fans in Sao Paulo celebrated.

However Internacional, who finished second after losing 1-0 to Coritiba, said they were the legitimate champions and also completed a lap of honour after their match.

Corinthians finished with 81 points from 42 games, three more than Internacional, in a competition marred by a match-fixing scandal involving referee Edilson Pereira de Carvalho.

Carvalho, who officiated at 11 matches during the competition, was banned for life after admitting he had taken money from a gambling ring to swing results.

In October, the Brazilian Sporting Tribunal (STJD) ordered the 11 games be replayed amid protests from Internacional, who argued that most of the fixtures refereed by Carvalho were unaffected by the scandal.

Corinthians, who played in two of Carvalho's games and lost both, picked up an extra four points in the replays.

Internacional were involved in one of Carvalho's games, winning both the original and the replay.

Had the original results stood, Internacional would have won the championship by a point.

Earlier on Sunday, a judge in the city of Porto Alegre ruled in favour of an Internacional supporter who went to court against the STJD's decision to replay the 11 games.

The judge, Mauro Borba, ruled that the STJD's decision needed to be re-examined and was only provisional. Corinthians dismissed the injunction.

"They forgot to do their part and gave us the championship," said Corinthians coach Antonio Lopes, referring to Internacional's defeat.

"We won these four points on the pitch. They're trying to spoil our conquest but they won't do it."

Internacional goalkeeper Clemer disagreed: "Everyone in Brazil is aware who the real champions are and that is Internacional."

Striker Fernandao said: "Unfortunately, a marvellous championship is going to be decided off the field."

Coach Muricy Ramalho added: "Corinthians are trying to pass over the law."

Goias took the lead just before halftime through Paulo Baier before goals by Argentine forward Carlos Tevez and Coelho put Corinthians ahead.

Goias, however, hit back with goals from Souza and substitute Romerito to win an entertaining but rough game marred by more than 60 fouls and a Corinthians fan who ran on to the field to hug Tevez.

A second-minute penalty scored by Alcimar gave Coritiba their win over Internacional.

Despite their victory, Coritiba will join Paysandu, Atletico Mineiro and Brasiliense in the second division next year if the present positions stand.

Thirty-nine-year-old striker Romario finished as the championship's leading scorer after striking twice, including one penalty, in Vasco da Gama's 3-1 win over Parana.

Brazil's 1994 World Cup striker finished with 22 goals, one more than Paysandu's Robson who failed to hit the target in his side's 4-1 defeat by Flamengo.

Palmeiras joined Corinthians, Internacional, Goias in next year's Libertadores Cup when they beat Fluminense 3-2 to finish fourth.

Fluminense, who began the day in fourth spot needing only a draw to qualify for the Cup, led 2-1 before a Dejan Petkovic own goal and a Correa free kick which was misjudged by goalkeeper Kleber.

[DaddyTorgo]

hxxp://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/story?id=351498&cc=5901

Man U out of the Champions League in the Group Stage!! WOOHOO!!

[TazFTW]

San Jose Earthquakes move to Houston.

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/story?id=352315&cc=5901

[moriarty]

LIverpool is in the finals of the Fifa World Club Championships (yawn). Could be an interesting final against a Brazilian squad though. Talk about different styles of play.

[Critch]

Scottish Cup - Clyde 2-1 Celtic. Woohoo!!

Clyde have been on the verge of bankruptcy for a while and haven't been in the top division in over 30 years. They only had 3 players going into this season so built the rest of the squad from young players released by other teams and players picked up from open try outs. Celtic on the other hand are one of the two big teams in Scotland, are big budget, full of international players, and were unveiling new signing Roy Keane.

But in one of those great cup upset days Clyde overcame having two good goals disallowed and missed a penalty and still managed to pull out the shock win.

I wasn't going to bother paying for the Burton Albion v Manchester United game on ppv as it'll be a walk over, but if Clyde can beat Celtic maybe I should break out my $15 and cheer on Burton Albion too :D

[Desnudo]

FA Cup: Burton Albion 0 - Man U 0. :D

[AlexB]

And the mighty Foxes are one of two teams to defeat Premier opposition, coming back from 2 down to beat Spurs 3-2! De Vries scores the winner in injury time - :)

Levein (our manager) had said that if we win we can get a few new players, which we desperately need as we're only 1 place off the relegation zone in the Championship - we need a left back, a striker and a right winger at the very least...

[MIJB#19]

Scottish Cup - Clyde 2-1 Celtic. Woohoo!!

Clyde have been on the verge of bankruptcy for a while and haven't been in the top division in over 30 years. They only had 3 players going into this season so built the rest of the squad from young players released by other teams and players picked up from open try outs. Celtic on the other hand are one of the two big teams in Scotland, are big budget, full of international players, and were unveiling new signing Roy Keane.

But in one of those great cup upset days Clyde overcame having two good goals disallowed and missed a penalty and still managed to pull out the shock win.

I wasn't going to bother paying for the Burton Albion v Manchester United game on ppv as it'll be a walk over, but if Clyde can beat Celtic maybe I should break out my $15 and cheer on Burton Albion too :DSo, alre Celtic and Rangers brushing up the image of Scottish football this season by letting other teams win the silverware for a change? Smart decission. :D

[MIJB#19]

And the mighty Foxes are one of two teams to defeat Premier opposition, coming back from 2 down to beat Spurs 3-2! De Vries scores the winner in injury time - :)Someone has been trying to impress Martin Jol so he can team up with Edgar Davids for real games in the future, in stead of charity games.

[Critch]

So, alre Celtic and Rangers brushing up the image of Scottish football this season by letting other teams win the silverware for a change? Smart decission. :D

No, because Celtic are till going to win the league and Rangers will still win the Cup :)

It has been a bit more competitive this season, but I think that's more to do with bad Rangers and Celtic teams than it has to do with a general rise in quality from the rest.

[BreizhManu]

Poll for the world best goalkeeper



The World's best Goalkeeper 2005
Welt-Torhüter 2005
El Mejor Portero del Mundo 2005
Meilleur Gardien de But du Monde 200
by IFFHS


<table border="1" cellspacing="0" cols="5" frame="void" rules="groups"><colgroup><col width="44"><col width="340"><col width="364"><col width="225"><col width="56"></colgroup> <tbody> <tr> <td align="center" height="20" width="44">
</td> <td align="left" width="340">
</td> <td align="left" width="364">
</td> <td align="left" width="225">
</td> <td align="left" width="56"> points</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="center" height="20">1.</td> <td align="left">Petr Čech</td> <td align="left">Chelsea FC London</td> <td align="left">Česká Republika</td> <td align="right">175</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="center" height="20">2.</td> <td align="left">Nélson de Jesús e Silva "Dida"</td> <td align="left">Milan AC</td> <td align="left">Brasil</td> <td align="right">91</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="center" height="20">3.</td> <td align="left">Gianluigi Buffon</td> <td align="left">Juventus FC Torino</td> <td align="left">Italia</td> <td align="right">78</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="center" height="20">4.</td> <td align="left">Grégory Coupet</td> <td align="left">Olympique Lyonnais</td> <td align="left">France</td> <td align="right">43</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="center" height="20">5.</td> <td align="left">Oliver Kahn</td> <td align="left">FC Bayern München</td> <td align="left">Deutschland</td> <td align="right">42</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="center" height="20">6.</td> <td align="left">Iker Casillas</td> <td align="left">Real Madrid CF</td> <td align="left">España</td> <td align="right">41</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="center" height="20">7.</td> <td align="left">Jerzy Dudek</td> <td align="left">Liverpool FC</td> <td align="left">Polska</td> <td align="right">34</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="center" height="20">8.</td> <td align="left">Edwin van der Sar</td> <td align="left">Manchester United FC</td> <td align="left">Nederland</td> <td align="right">32</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="center" height="20">9.</td> <td align="left">Rogério Ceni</td> <td align="left">São Paulo FC</td> <td align="left">Brasil</td> <td align="right">31</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="center" height="20">10.</td> <td align="left">Roberto Carlos Abbondanzieri</td> <td align="left">CA Boca Juniors Buenos Aires</td> <td align="left">Argentina</td> <td align="right">26</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="center" height="20">11.</td> <td align="left">Heurelho da Silva Gomes</td> <td align="left">PSV Eindhoven</td> <td align="left">Brasil</td> <td align="right">17</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="center" height="20">12.</td> <td align="left">Igor Akinfeyev</td> <td align="left">CSKA Moscow</td> <td align="left">Russia</td> <td align="right">12</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="center" height="20">13.</td> <td align="left">Víctor Valdés Arribas</td> <td align="left">FC Barcelona</td> <td align="left">España</td> <td align="right">11</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="center" height="20">
</td> <td align="left">Jens Lehmann</td> <td align="left">Arsenal FC London</td> <td align="left">Deutschland</td> <td align="right">11</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="center" height="20">
</td> <td align="left">José Manuel Reina Páez</td> <td align="left">Liverpool FC</td> <td align="left">España</td> <td align="right">11</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="center" height="20">16.</td> <td align="left">Carlos Fernando Navarro Montoya</td> <td align="left">Club de Gimnasia y Esgrima La Plata</td> <td align="left">Colombia/Argentina</td> <td align="right">10</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="center" height="20">
</td> <td align="left">Oswaldo Sánchez</td> <td align="left">CD Guadalajara</td> <td align="left">México</td> <td align="right">10</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="center" height="20">
</td> <td align="left">Mark Schwarzer</td> <td align="left">Middlesbrough FC</td> <td align="left">Australia</td> <td align="right">10</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="center" height="20">19.</td> <td align="left">Andreas Isaksson</td> <td align="left">Stade Rennais FC</td> <td align="left">Sverige</td> <td align="right">8</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="center" height="20">20.</td> <td align="left">Fabien Barthez</td> <td align="left">Olympique de Marseille</td> <td align="left">France</td> <td align="right">6</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="center" height="20">
</td> <td align="left">José María Buljubasich</td> <td align="left">CD Universidad Católica Santiago</td> <td align="left">Argentina</td> <td align="right">6</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="center" height="20">
</td> <td align="left">Carlos Idriss Kameni</td> <td align="left">RCD Espanyol de Barcelona</td> <td align="left">Cameroun</td> <td align="right">6</td></tr></tbody></table>
hxxp://www.iffhs.de/?e4380bfd300bf17420d87452db2d0ae43110f32d00e41504e52d

wohoo with Cech and Isaksson that makes 2 players (or ex players) from Rennes http://www.operationsports.com/fofc/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

[Northwood_DK]

Im a bit suprised to find players like Fabien Barthez, Oliver Kahn and Víctor Valdés on the list.

Barthez and Oliver Kahn is way over their peaks and Valdés is lucky to play on a very good team.

[BreizhManu]

I agree, they don't belong to that list (well kahn does but not that high anymore) but since it comes from a vote...

[bhlloy]

Yep, you also would have thought Paul Robinson would have found his way onto that list somehow. He's been outstanding for the past two years.

[daedalus]

The perils of toiling for Spurs. :D

[bhlloy]

Another thing I noticed was interesting but I was at work and shouldn't have been surfing the net is Jerzy Dudek well ahead of Bepe Reina. a) obviously not according to Rafa Benitez and b) it's amazing what a couple of penalty saves will do for you, even when you've been playing like crap all year :)

All in all, not a very reliable poll methinks

[Desnudo]

Rossi scores two in Man U's win. Granted not the best competition, but not too shabby. Now that he's starting to see limited first team action, and by all accounts is performing well, should the US add him to the shortlist? I can see an argument for finding a way to get him a CAP in the next WC.

[ISiddiqui]

IIRC, Rossi has already said he is holding out for the Italian team. He won't accept a cap by the US unless he is much older and Italy has said never.

[Desnudo]

He also said if the US makes an offer to call him up for this WC, it would be hard to turn down.

[ISiddiqui]

He also said if the US makes an offer to call him up for this WC, it would be hard to turn down.Hard, but not impossible... and with his potential, he'll probably wait. After all, he was one of Italy's U-19.

[Desnudo]

Sure, but he'll have to be realistic about his chances of making the Italian team. They have a lot of native talent at his position

[ISiddiqui]

Sure, but he'll have to be realistic about his chances of making the Italian team. They have a lot of native talent at his positionYet he is considered to be one of the best (if not the best) young player at that position for the Azzuri.

[Desnudo]

Iaquinta, Gilardino, Cassano - all basically locks to be the starting strikers for WC 2010. So realistically, Rossi is looking at WC 2014 before he might break into the starting line-up. That assumes that he beats out the other up and coming Italian talent who are mostly playing at home.

[Katon]

Given the Italian national team's persistent refusal to select anyone playing abroad, he's not looking too good at the moment.

[Crapshoot]

Well, Italy will give Cassano a shot - what with his move to Madrid and all. And Panucci and Zola both got their shots (well, I'm not certain about Zola) while playing outside the Serie A.

[Katon]

Nope. Zola got more of a shot at the team when he was playing for Cagliari at nearly forty than he ever did with Chelsea. And Carlo Cudicini, while he certainly shouldn't have started over Buffon, never even made the squad in spite of being probably the best keeper in the Premiership and playing regularly in Europe. Panucci I will grant you, but the only remotely competent Italian right-back at the time was Zambrotta - who, of course, was busy starting on the left. Given even slightly useful alternatives, Italy doesn't like selecting players outside Serie A.

[ISiddiqui]

Given the Italian national team's persistent refusal to select anyone playing abroad, he's not looking too good at the moment.He doesn't have to play for ManU forever ;). He hasn't in the past. He could always return to Serie A, and probably will.

[Butter]

Rossi scores two in Man U's win. Granted not the best competition, but not too shabby. Now that he's starting to see limited first team action, and by all accounts is performing well, should the US add him to the shortlist? I can see an argument for finding a way to get him a CAP in the next WC.

The US probably won't win the WC, but this thing only comes around once every 4 years. I can't see any argument for wasting a cap on a player who probably won't help you just so you can keep him for 2 or 3 future cups, where his presence may or may not make a difference. Actually, playing him in anything besides a 2-0 game could end up costing you points, so what would be a good argument for throwing him out there?

And I'm thinking the same thing about Adu here. But I think the US has a much lower chance of losing Adu than they do Rossi. If Rossi is only going to play for the US as his "safety", then would we really want him on the roster when we're in the same group as Italy?

[AlexB]

Marcus Hahneman is having an absolute stormer tonight for Reading against Palace: OK he gave away a penalty, but Andy Johnson would threaten the world long jump record if he was allowed to attempt his jump from just inside the penalty box - he has made a number of fantastic single and multiple saves...

Bobby Convey on the other hand...

[Desnudo]

The US probably won't win the WC, but this thing only comes around once every 4 years. I can't see any argument for wasting a cap on a player who probably won't help you just so you can keep him for 2 or 3 future cups, where his presence may or may not make a difference. Actually, playing him in anything besides a 2-0 game could end up costing you points, so what would be a good argument for throwing him out there?

And I'm thinking the same thing about Adu here. But I think the US has a much lower chance of losing Adu than they do Rossi. If Rossi is only going to play for the US as his "safety", then would we really want him on the roster when we're in the same group as Italy?

Adu and Rossi are in different situations. And there is always some dregs on the roster that could easily be replaced. Rossi is seeing some first team action for Man U and according to reports has been excellent, including a potential for goal of the season. Adu younger and much rawer. If Rossi continues to see playing time at Man U I see no reason not to call him up. And there are plenty of players on the US squad capable of costing the US points, hence the reason for calling him up.

[AlexB]

Wow :eek:

This is a first for me - fans of a country in the world's top ten clamouring for a striker to be included in a WC squad after scoring two goals at home against a team not even in the league structure...

[DaddyTorgo]

rossi can rot. i hope arena refuses to give in to his quasi-blackmail and doesn't even dial his number. if he doesn't want to play for us then why should we want him to play for us so badly that we in essence beg?? we're better than that. screw that.

[Desnudo]

Wow :eek:

This is a first for me - fans of a country in the world's top ten clamouring for a striker to be included in a WC squad after scoring two goals at home against a team not even in the league structure...

He's also been coming off the bench in EPL matches.

[AlexB]

He's also been coming off the bench in EPL matches.

He has played 47 minutes in the EPL this year, and has one goal.

Yes he could well be a great player, and is rumoured to be the best of the young Man Utd players along with the defender Pique, but come on - in the world cup thread many were arguing the case for the US being deservedly in the top 10 in the world: if this were the case a young kid who has played the equivalent only just over half a game in the EPL would not be considered for a WC spot.

Two examples spring to mind that may be the exception to this: Ronaldo was in the Brazil WC squad at 17, and Rooney played for England when he had made very few league appearances - nobody is saying Rossi is the same prodigy as Rooney/Ronaldo: seriously, unless Rossi comes in and plays an important part for Utd for the rest of the year this argument is a non starter.

Anybody that deserves a WC spot for a top 10 ranked country should at the absolute minimum be able to force himself above Louis Saha in the Utd squad. (Not that Saha is a bad player, we're just talking a high level here)

[Desnudo]

Rossi on the bench again for the Liverpool match. When Saha gets his inevitable injury, Rossi will see some time. I also count getting picked for the Man U line-up, even as a bench player, as being a pretty big accomplishment at that age. Yes the US is a "Top 10" nation according to FIFA, but realistically, look where most of the players are coming from. Not a whole lot playing in the top 3 leagues that aren't goalkeepers.

As for the "his first choice is Italy" argument, I've come around to the fact that I think he would be invaluable to the US and therefore should be offered a chance (already was for the Scotland friendly, so Arena obviously sees something too). He will be technically and creatively miles ahead than any other US player, except maybe Beasley, from first playing in Italy and now for Man U.

Honestly if there were more players, say Brazillians for example, that didn't have a realistic shot at playing for their national team and brought something the US team lacks, flair and creativity, I say suck up the national pride and let them play. This isn't a sport like basketball where we get to pick and choose from the best in the world. If anything, having a player like Rossi on the team could serve as a catalyst to focus more attention on the technical side of the game.

[TazFTW]

Sven will leave England after the World Cup.

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/story?id=356198&cc=5901

I don't follow soccer closely so I had no idea what

It follows successive weekends of damaging revelations in the News of the World, who duped Eriksson and his advisers into believing an undercover reporter was a rich Arab sheikh who wanted to give the Swede a new job.
was talking about.

Looking it up I found this, http://soccernet.espn.go.com/columns/story?id=355382&root=worldcup&cc=5901

A "sting" operation on a soccer manager? There's nothing else to report about?

[SirFozzie]

The paper that did it is notorious for that kinda stuff..

Footy is life over there.. one of their managers once said "football isn't a matter of life and death, it's more important then that"

The tabloids over there are notorious for that kinda thing.. oh yeah.. that and running pictures of topless women in the daily paper.

[Mac Howard]

England have the best squad they've had for a long, long time and have a real chance of reaching the later stages of the World Cup. What they didn't need was a trashy tabloid undermining the morale of the squad in order to sell a few more copies of its shabby rag :(

[Katon]

And the tabloids complain about SVEN hurting England's World Cup chances. Not that he's a great manager, but the alternatives are abysmal. There are only three remotely competent English managers in the Premiership at the moment: Sam Allardyce (would really suffer from not being able to bring in cheap Africans), Paul Jewell (more than one season managing successfully in the top flight, please), and Stuart Pearce (more than one season managing, please). Another foreigner, and you get the same how-can-our-national-team-not-be-managed-by-a-proper-Englishman junk from the tabloids.

[AlexB]

I think you could add Alan Curbishley to that list (Charlton) - yes he's had a rough period recently but he's done fantastically there for decade. Curbs deserves to be highlighted in the above, but as England manager though? Probably not.

[MIJB#19]

News around two Americans in the Dutch soccer league:

* Cory Gibbs is allowed to leave Feyenoord transfer free. After having missed the first half of the 2005/2006 season due to injuries, Gibbs is no longer a potential starter, or even a benchwarmer.

* Michael Bradley joins SC Heerenveen. Appraently he's a 18-year old MetroStars starter on their midfield. Any additional text by someone who follows the MLS, especially the MetroStars, to give me some input on Bradley? For example what kind of position he plays and what his skills are?

[bhlloy]

And the tabloids complain about SVEN hurting England's World Cup chances. Not that he's a great manager, but the alternatives are abysmal. There are only three remotely competent English managers in the Premiership at the moment: Sam Allardyce (would really suffer from not being able to bring in cheap Africans), Paul Jewell (more than one season managing successfully in the top flight, please), and Stuart Pearce (more than one season managing, please). Another foreigner, and you get the same how-can-our-national-team-not-be-managed-by-a-proper-Englishman junk from the tabloids.

I think you have to bear in mind that international management is not quite like club management - there are quite a few guys who have done very nicely with minimal club experience. International management seems to be way more about motivation and getting players behind the cause - see Mark Hughes as the Wales manager who did an incredible job with a poor squad despite being a complete rookie.

For whatever reason (I agree with you about the tabloid junk, but the attitude is there among the common fan as well), I don't think a foreign manager is going to have huge success with the England job.

I'm not English but I would love to see Stuart Pearce get the job with somebody more experienced as an advisor - bring back Bobby Robson :p

Jari is right - Alan Curbishley is an incredible manager when you look at what he's done with Charlton over the last 5-10 years. I think he would do well also.

Sam Allardyce would be a disaster IMO, but not for the reason you listed. He's a long ball, physical kind of manager, which would be a completely disasterous move given England's talent (especially in the midfield) and lack of a decent target man. Unless England fans want to see more of Kevin Davies in the national team ;)

[Katon]

Curbishley's stagnated at Charlton the last couple of seasons. Very impressive before that, certainly, but they've been stuck at the same level for a while now while teams with no more financial muscle (Bolton, Everton) have moved past them. In particular, the way the entire team always seems to start its summer vacation a month early doesn't speak well for his motivational skills. Probably should have been on my list, as he's certainly remotely competent, but not a good candidate for the job.

International management may involve motivation more than club management, but that doesn't mean you can ignore tactics. Just look at how Kevin Keegan worked out. Neither Pearce nor Jewell has any real experience dealing with Continental football, and they haven't got enough of a track record at the top level to know what they can do besides motivate (though David James up front was certainly imaginative).

I think Allardyce is more tactically flexible than you're giving him credit for - compared to Martin O'Neill, who some lunatics have actually been proposing as a serious candidate, his teams are a joy to watch - but I'm not sure we're really disagreeing. Let me rephrase my objection: Allardyce's most impressive skill is his ability to find cheap foreign talent that fits his preferred style and that's completely useless in the international game.

[Desnudo]

Is there any reason why it must be an Englishman? Why not just hire Mourinho part-time? He's already in London.

[bhlloy]

Curbishley's stagnated at Charlton the last couple of seasons. Very impressive before that, certainly, but they've been stuck at the same level for a while now while teams with no more financial muscle (Bolton, Everton) have moved past them. In particular, the way the entire team always seems to start its summer vacation a month early doesn't speak well for his motivational skills. Probably should have been on my list, as he's certainly remotely competent, but not a good candidate for the job.

International management may involve motivation more than club management, but that doesn't mean you can ignore tactics. Just look at how Kevin Keegan worked out. Neither Pearce nor Jewell has any real experience dealing with Continental football, and they haven't got enough of a track record at the top level to know what they can do besides motivate (though David James up front was certainly imaginative).

I think Allardyce is more tactically flexible than you're giving him credit for - compared to Martin O'Neill, who some lunatics have actually been proposing as a serious candidate, his teams are a joy to watch - but I'm not sure we're really disagreeing. Let me rephrase my objection: Allardyce's most impressive skill is his ability to find cheap foreign talent that fits his preferred style and that's completely useless in the international game.

Very well thought out post... I agree that you definitely can't discount tactics. Which is why I'd love to see Pearce with someone like Robson or Venables. I think you need a balance of the two - Eriksson's failing (real or imagined) is that he doesn't do enough to motivate the players and he doesn't really care.

Going back to Wales as an example, Toshack has an incredible pedigree and experience, but a lot of our more experienced players won't play for him. The right kind of manager needs the attitude and the tactical knowledge to succeed - way more than in club football. Add in the fact that it is inherently harder for a foreign manager to motivate players and get the country behind them - I think the FA would be crazy to appoint a foreign manager again.

The one exception I would make would be Mourinho. An incredible manager who players on the whole would die to play for. If the FA could get him that would be a huge coup, but I can't imagine him wanting the job given the history.

[AlexB]

I think Allardyce is more tactically flexible than you're giving him credit for - compared to Martin O'Neill, who some lunatics have actually been proposing as a serious candidate, his teams are a joy to watch - but I'm not sure we're really disagreeing. Let me rephrase my objection: Allardyce's most impressive skill is his ability to find cheap foreign talent that fits his preferred style and that's completely useless in the international game.

Wtf? Watching Bolton games is less boring than it used to be, but paint drying still gives it a run for it's money (OK I'm exaggerating, but they are in no way shape or form 'a joy to watch')

O'Neill got criticised at Celtic for the playing style, but as a Leciester fan, once he got the team stabilised, we played some great stuff. And the one game where we had the team he was building to, we destroyed Sunderland 5-2 with possibly the best performance I have ever seen from a Leicester side. I don't know about Celtic, and obviously they are a different beast, but his Leicester side played good stuff once we were consolidated in the PL.

If things had turned out differently (i.e. Collymore had not been the English version of TO, Eadie had not been injured, Heskey had not been sold) O'Neill firmly believed this side would have pushed for a Champions League spot.

Flowers, Sinclair, Taggart, Guppy, Savage, Elliott, Izzet, Lennon, Eadie, Collymore, Heskey.

And it might not be as far fetched as it might sound: the previous 4 years we were one of only five sides to win a trophy (EPL/FAC/LC - we won the LC twice), and one of only five sides to finish top half all 4 seasons.

(Great days as a Leicester fan, but oh how it has changed now... :( )

He will not manage England - his wife is still ill - but if it's motivation that you want, there's none better

[AlexB]

Dola - just seen your 'compared to'...

You obviously weren;t saying Allardyce's sides are like watching Brazil - apologies. But I'll leave the above it it's unabridged form: I enjoyed that reminisce!

[Katon]

Dola - just seen your 'compared to'...

You obviously weren;t saying Allardyce's sides are like watching Brazil - apologies. But I'll leave the above it it's unabridged form: I enjoyed that reminisce!

It was fun to read, too. I wasn't really thinking of O'Neill's Leicester sides; I was pretty young then, and my interest in non-Chelsea teams was somewhat spotty, so I don't have nearly a clear enough mental image to argue with someone who watched them regularly. I was thinking of the time at Celtic when he went out of his way in the transfer market to achieve a central midfield of Neil Lennon and Robbie Savage feeding John Hartson and Chris Sutton up front.

I'd also be less opposed to O'Neill if he hadn't left the Celtic job the way he did. Even a British coach is going to get a lot of stick from the press, and I'm not convinced he's going to be ready to shrug all that off any time soon.

[Katon]

Is there any reason why it must be an Englishman? Why not just hire Mourinho part-time? He's already in London.

First, part-time coaches aren't such a great option. Sven watches a lot of matches, looking for candidates to call up, and there's no way someone with a club job could match that; also, there's the question of how he could deal fairly with Chelsea players versus non-Chelsea players.

More generally, while the national team coach always gets a hard time from the press Sven's been having particular difficulty with some of the more xenophobic elements (in particular the News of the World & its like). Appointing someone like Mourinho might make the team more likely to win, but it wouldn't help much with the press criticism. Especially Mourinho; he doesn't get along very well with the English press.

[Critch]

I'd also be less opposed to O'Neill if he hadn't left the Celtic job the way he did. Even a British coach is going to get a lot of stick from the press, and I'm not convinced he's going to be ready to shrug all that off any time soon.

What was wrong with the way O'Neill left Celtic? His wife was ill and he left them to be with her, gave them warning he was going to go too. I'm not a fan of his, didn't like the way he acted, hated his tactics, but I can't see anything wrong with the way he left. And he didn't sign Savage for Celtic either. :)

I also don't agree that Sven gets any trouble due to xenophobia. He's just not a popular manager with the English fans and he's getting nothing worse than Bobby Robson or Graham Taylor got in the past. Not like he's been helping himself either.

I'm sure there is some feeling that a footballing country like England shouldn't need a foreign coach, although a special prize to anybody who can name the last English manager to win the English League :)

[Katon]

What was wrong with the way O'Neill left Celtic? His wife was ill and he left them to be with her, gave them warning he was going to go too.

Oh, I absolutely agree with him doing it. I just don't think that going straight from ill wife to high-pressure, press-screaming-at-you situations is a very good idea. And as much as I like to gripe about Sven's handling of the England midfield, his biggest problem in the job has always been with the press rather than getting results, so that side of things does need considering.

[Katon]

And on the amount-of-slack point: Sven's doing better results-wise than Taylor ever did. He's consistently doing as well as Robson at his best. If he's getting as much slack as they did, there's a reason for that. There are some columnists who are on his back because of the meeting with Kenyon (and have I mentioned how glad I am that deal got blown up) and the wide and varied sex life; there were also some - James Lawton of the Independent springs to mind - who hated the idea of a foreign manager and just never let up.

[Critch]

Oh, I absolutely agree with him doing it. I just don't think that going straight from ill wife to high-pressure, press-screaming-at-you situations is a very good idea.

Oh right, sorry. Misread what you were meaning.

O'Neill has apparently already said that he wouldn't take the job even if it was offered, but I guess it wouldn't be the first time somebody in sports said they would never do something before turning around and doing it when the cash was mentioned :)

[Coder]

Sure, I'm biased since I'm a Swede, but what the hell were they thinking conjuring up this whole Sheikh-business 4 months before the World Cup? Do they WANT England to struggle due to internal conflicts?

Too often it feels as if the British press are more interested in CREATING news than reporting them.. makes me furious just thinking about it because the Swedish press is slowly adapting this technique.

I have this theory that the British press are so all over him because the first probes they tried to rock his chair just slipped off of him, and he even managed to get some good results.. but THEY weren't able to get under his skin.. so they escalated their efforts.. and failed again.. then they increased the pace again.. and so on.. I just feel like no other manager has been so harassed by the press as Sven, and my theory is that it's because he failed to get frustrated with them earlier.. he just ignored them..

[AlexB]

Breaking news: Craig Levein leaves Leicester with immediate effect. We currently sit in the relegation zone of the Championship, having never in our history being outside the top two divisions (thank you Tony James - that was too close!).

We have some decent players, but no grafters - nobody who will get stuck in and grab the game by the scruff of the neck, Bizarrely, I think if we had had a decent start, the team would be OK, but we are in no way suited for a relegation fight.

One week to find a new manager and bring in a couple of veteran battlers to get us out of this mess before the transfer window closes...

The win over Spurs in the cup might be the worst thing for us: gave Levein a stay of execution that leaves us no time to get anyone else in...

[Crapshoot]

Sure, I'm biased since I'm a Swede, but what the hell were they thinking conjuring up this whole Sheikh-business 4 months before the World Cup? Do they WANT England to struggle due to internal conflicts?

Too often it feels as if the British press are more interested in CREATING news than reporting them.. makes me furious just thinking about it because the Swedish press is slowly adapting this technique.

I have this theory that the British press are so all over him because the first probes they tried to rock his chair just slipped off of him, and he even managed to get some good results.. but THEY weren't able to get under his skin.. so they escalated their efforts.. and failed again.. then they increased the pace again.. and so on.. I just feel like no other manager has been so harassed by the press as Sven, and my theory is that it's because he failed to get frustrated with them earlier.. he just ignored them..

Yup. The Tabloids are absolutely repulsive in their nature at times.

[AlexB]

I just feel like no other manager has been so harassed by the press as Sven, and my theory is that it's because he failed to get frustrated with them earlier.. he just ignored them..

Sven has been done up like a kipper by the red-tops, but he's had it no worse than many. Keegan was the same, as was Hoddle, and none of the three had anywhere the unfair treatment that Graham Taylor received.

Even the media darling El Tel (Terry Venables) didn;t get off scot-free, but he did have a better knack of handling the media - if you are stand-offish and not open to the press, they will dig around to find something. It's not right, but to coin a phrase, it is what it is, and unfortunately part of the job that press are going to be pricks towards you.

Everybody knows what these papers do, and IMHO Sven has been either poorly advised or is very naive if he thought he would be the exception.

The only way it will stop is if people stop buying the papers: unfortuantely other than the Liverpool area stopping buying the Sun after Hillsborough, which had far more of an personal emotional reason behind it, this is unlikely to happen beacuse of stories like Sven...

[Desnudo]

First, part-time coaches aren't such a great option. Sven watches a lot of matches, looking for candidates to call up, and there's no way someone with a club job could match that; also, there's the question of how he could deal fairly with Chelsea players versus non-Chelsea players.

More generally, while the national team coach always gets a hard time from the press Sven's been having particular difficulty with some of the more xenophobic elements (in particular the News of the World & its like). Appointing someone like Mourinho might make the team more likely to win, but it wouldn't help much with the press criticism. Especially Mourinho; he doesn't get along very well with the English press.

If he's watching all these matches, why is Beckham still starting? ;)

[SirFozzie]

wow, great first half in the ManYoo-Blackburn 2nd leg.. what a sav on the PK by Friedel

[AlexB]

I don;t know if I'm right on this, but I have the impression that there is a vastly lower conversion rate on wrongly awarded penalties - this was another example.

[daedalus]

Sven watches a lot of matches, looking for candidates to call upHow many matches does he have to watch to pencil in Beckham and Owen? :D

Partially tongue-in-cheek, really, since it's irritating that Sven simply refuses to deviate from that pair regardless of form or anything else.

[bhlloy]

How many matches does he have to watch to pencil in Beckham and Owen? :D

Partially tongue-in-cheek, really, since it's irritating that Sven simply refuses to deviate from that pair regardless of form or anything else.

Beckham definitely. It is stunning that he is still the captain and an automatic name on the team sheet given his indifferent performances over the last couple of years.

I would be interested to hear who you would consider a viable alternative for Owen (he has actually not looked bad when he has got onto the field for Newcastle this year) The only two other options I see for that particular role are Jermaine Defoe who can't get into the Tottenham team, and Darius Vassell who was never international quality in the first place. And despite everyone creaming themselves over Theo Walcott, I think at the moment he's a bit young :p

[AlexB]

Beckham definitely. It is stunning that he is still the captain and an automatic name on the team sheet given his indifferent performances over the last couple of years.

I would be interested to hear who you would consider a viable alternative for Owen (he has actually not looked bad when he has got onto the field for Newcastle this year) The only two other options I see for that particular role are Jermaine Defoe who can't get into the Tottenham team, and Darius Vassell who was never international quality in the first place. And despite everyone creaming themselves over Theo Walcott, I think at the moment he's a bit young :p

Agree with your analysis of Owen & the other forwards, although I would add that Owen should be in every important game for England - he by far our best forward, and his scoring record is fantastic.

Your opinions on Beckham though are simply misinformed - you appear to have swallowed the tabloid media message hook line and sinker (the same tabloid media who people cannot wait to jump on re: Sven). Beckham deserves his place in the England team, again in every important game, and he has been one of our best players on a regular basis for as long as I can remember (bar one short period).

I do agree that the captaincy side could be looked at, but dropping him is a ridiculous notion.

He is an easy target, being interested as much in fashion as football, has a cartoon-style wife, and comes across as being 'intellectually challenged' at times (although recently he has become much more worldly), and as such people get on his back. However, this is unjustified from his England performances, and from what I understand the majority of his Madrid performances.

[tanglewood]

Beckham as been one of Real's best players over the last 12 months. He really struggled when he first went over there, and his England form took a similar hit at the same time, but now he is playing as well as he ever has been. Even if Shaun Wright-Phillips was still getting regular football, he'd deserve to be ahead of him for the right midfield spot.

[Crapshoot]

Beckham gets more stick than he deserves. He's one of the 30 or 40 best players in the world IMO, and while he gets marketed like a top 10 guy - it doesn't make him a bad player. He's been doing a great job for Madrid, and if Sven realized that dropping Lampard for Carrick would actually give that midfield some defensive cover, things would be better IMO. My England line up:

GK: Robinson
Defense (R to L): G.Neville, J.Terry, R.Ferdinand, A. Cole
Midfield: D.Beckham, M.Carrick, S.Gerrard , Joe Cole
Playing Off the Striker: Rooney
Up Front: Owen

Put Lampard on the bench, giving you a good option there - the problem with playing Gerrard and Lampard together is that you force one of them into a defensive midfield role they're not really suited for - Gerrard can do the job, but he's better than Lampard, and it seems like a waste of his talent.

[ISiddiqui]

I'd take Lampard over Gerrard frankly.. make Gerrard sit the bench.

[Crapshoot]

I'd take Lampard over Gerrard frankly.. make Gerrard sit the bench.

Heathen! :D

I dunno - I think Lampard's a good player, but he's got one of the best defensive midfielders in the world and two of the best defenders in the world doing the hard work for him - and his defensive responsibilites are non-existent. Gerrard is a more end to end player (anyone recall him playing Right back on a bad hamstring in Istanbul ?) who has to shoulder so much more in terms of responsibility - he can't lurk outside the penalty area and score deflection after deflection. :D

[Wolfpack]

Briefly interjecting to note that the former San Jose Earthquakes shall henceforth be known as...(drum roll, crashing cymbals) "Houston 1836" (deafening silence...crickets chirping).

Right then. Carry on. :)

[moriarty]

I'd take Lampard over Gerrard frankly.. make Gerrard sit the bench.

What? Gerrard is having his best, most consistent year yet (last match vs. ManU withstanding). He's the only English player I've seen in the premier league (other than Rooney) capable of taking over a game single handedly.

If you want to get the best players on the field, I could see making a case for moving him to right back (although he'd probably be making forward runs more often than not) but I'd have a hard time sitting him on the bench.

[Critch]

Briefly interjecting to note that the former San Jose Earthquakes shall henceforth be known as...(drum roll, crashing cymbals) "Houston 1836" (deafening silence...crickets chirping).

What a crap name. Not Real Salt Lake crap, but crap nonetheless.

[tanglewood]

Beckham gets more stick than he deserves. He's one of the 30 or 40 best players in the world IMO, and while he gets marketed like a top 10 guy - it doesn't make him a bad player. He's been doing a great job for Madrid, and if Sven realized that dropping Lampard for Carrick would actually give that midfield some defensive cover, things would be better IMO. My England line up:

GK: Robinson
Defense (R to L): G.Neville, J.Terry, R.Ferdinand, A. Cole
Midfield: D.Beckham, M.Carrick, S.Gerrard , Joe Cole
Playing Off the Striker: Rooney
Up Front: Owen

Put Lampard on the bench, giving you a good option there - the problem with playing Gerrard and Lampard together is that you force one of them into a defensive midfield role they're not really suited for - Gerrard can do the job, but he's better than Lampard, and it seems like a waste of his talent.

Well, for the last couple of games Sven has gone with a midfield of Gerrard, Lampard, Beckham and Ledley King in the holding role. It worked very well against Poland and reasonably so verses Argentina. SOme have been saying that Carrick would be a better coice than King (especially considering Carrick actually plays in midfield for Spurs!) but I'm not so sure. Carrick is defensive in the sense that he isn't box to box and will control the tempo of a game, but he isn't that dynamic defensively and not that great a tackler. King is nothing above acceptable on the ball for a midfielder, but is pacy, excellent in the air, strong in the tackle and good positionaly. Of course, the build up friendlies will only tell so much, so we will only really find out if either of them are up to it in Germany.

[Crapshoot]

A great letter on football365.com about the next English management process:


ust Let The Tabloids Pick
Perhaps we could get the tabloids to set up a panel to decide the next England manager? After all, they decide when it’s time for them to be fired. Let’s make them accountable. Categories for assessment could be:

·Is your missus fit?
·How foreign are you? Because foreign coaches are all sh*t, let’s face it. Even the ones that have won the World Cup. And all English coaches are ace. Despite only one of them winning the World Cup and none in recent history winning the Champion’s League. Or the League. Or much.
·Do you have any relationship, however tentative, with a root vegetable? It will be a bonus if you do.
·Does your name rhyme amusingly with anything football related - or anything, for that matter?
·Have you ever had sex with anyone? Anyone will do, we'll find ‘em and they will tell us the sordid details. The nation needs to know who you have sex with. It’s important for the game.
·Does a vein start to bulge in your forehead when you are losing, or as half time approaches? Do you feel angry a lot? It helps with being a manager.
·Will you try and play all your best players at the same time, or listen to a million different opinions on what will definitely bring success from a million different people, none of whom have managed a football team at the top level?
·Can you really be arsed with this cr*p job where people expect success if you give it to them but are ever ready to flay you alive should you expose any human frailties or, God forbid, make a mistake occasionally?

I'm going to hide under my desk now.
Andy Woolnough

[Katon]

The problem with Beckham at the moment is that playing him on the right wing hurts both Lampard and Gerrard - the two English midfielders who definitely deserve to be ranked ahead of him. Lampard at club level has most of the play running through him; when Beckham plays for England, he tends to hog the ball somewhat, meaning Lampard starts looking significantly worse. When Beckham was suspended against Poland, the result was Lampard's best performance for England and the national team's most coherent midfield in years.

Gerrard can be a lethal player, but what makes him special is the surging runs he makes at the opposing defence. If you play him in a two-man central midfield, then there are two possibilities: he can keep making the runs, in which case he necessarily neglects his positional responsibilites and the midfield can get badly overrun, or he can stop making them in which case you've lost most of what made him special in the first place. This is why for years Liverpool did better with him out of the team than in it; he doesn't work well in the centre of a 4-4-2. For about a year now, Benitez has been using him either as a right winger or in a three-man midfield with Alonso and Hammann/Sissoko, both roles with far lighter defensive requirements; suddenly you've got the best Liverpool team in years and Gerrard is one of the best players in the Premiership.

The upshot of all this is that if the national team is going to play a 4-4-2, then there's only one spot where Gerrard can play anywhere near his best: right wing. Which is occupied by Beckham. So while Beckham is clearly a better player than any of his potential replacements either in the center or on the right, having him in the team severely discommodes two people who are among the top ten or so players in the world. Which means that in the long run England would probably be better off with a midfield of

Cole-Lampard-Carrick-Gerrard

or something to that effect.

[Desnudo]

Briefly interjecting to note that the former San Jose Earthquakes shall henceforth be known as...(drum roll, crashing cymbals) "Houston 1836" (deafening silence...crickets chirping).

Right then. Carry on. :)

The Alamo?

[Young Drachma]

Briefly interjecting to note that the former San Jose Earthquakes shall henceforth be known as...(drum roll, crashing cymbals) "Houston 1836" (deafening silence...crickets chirping).

Right then. Carry on. :)

I kinda like the name. I mean, obviously the names in MLS are becoming more "soccer-like" and less American sportesque. I think it shows at least they're being more creative.

[Desnudo]

Beckham as been one of Real's best players over the last 12 months. He really struggled when he first went over there, and his England form took a similar hit at the same time, but now he is playing as well as he ever has been. Even if Shaun Wright-Phillips was still getting regular football, he'd deserve to be ahead of him for the right midfield spot.

I haven't seen him play since EURO 2004, which is when I formed the opinion that he needed to be replaced. I still think they need more of a prototypical winger that can threaten defenses with pace and dribbling, but I guess England doesn't tend to produce a ton of those.

[Crapshoot]

I haven't seen him play since EURO 2004, which is when I formed the opinion that he needed to be replaced. I still think they need more of a prototypical winger that can threaten defenses with pace and dribbling, but I guess England doesn't tend to produce a ton of those.

Shaun Wright Phillips ? Beckham's still probably the best crosser of the ball around - its a shame England's strikers aren't always good enough to take advantage of that in the air. He's a good winger, IMO.

[AlexB]

...Which means that in the long run England would probably be better off with a midfield of

Cole-Lampard-Carrick-Gerrard

or something to that effect.

Agree with most of this.

So alternatively Gerrard-Lampard-plus one-Beckham (l-r), as Becks deserves the place ahead of Cole...

Admittedly Gerrard is not as good on the left as the right (see Euro 2004) but Becks' crossing is something that we cannot afford not to have. I would argue that the three are all good enough players that we have to find a way of getting all three in the side: this is the only way of doing so.

(If we had a decent left sided player who proves himself prior to the WC - only real hope is Downing, but I think it's likely too soon for him after his long injury - then the fight would be between Gerrard & Lampard for the central spot. As we have a need, and a great player who can do a job, use him, otherwise one of the two has to sit - as in the DC position between Terry/Ferdinand/Campbell with Woodgate in there if he can stay fit for longer than five minutes)

[Wolfpack]

The Alamo?

Close. Apparently the city was founded in 1836, hence the number in the name.

I kinda like the name. I mean, obviously the names in MLS are becoming more "soccer-like" and less American sportesque. I think it shows at least they're being more creative.

Creative in what way? They're basically getting ideas from other leagues. Chivas USA from Mexico, Real SL from Spain, DC United from England, FC Dallas from just about any Euro league, and now 1836 from Germany. Though I suppose it makes sense, a little, if you think about the fact that America is a melting pot of cultures, why not a melting pot of team name styles?

If they're going to keep doing this, go all the way and abolish the conferences and have one table. With the relative few number of teams (at the moment), play four against everyone else. Intersperse with games for the MLS Cup which feature everyone in MLS getting a crack at it and then you'll have domestic doubles and with the US Open Cup, a domestic treble. Still keep American ideas like the draft and a salary cap, though, because American soccer just doesn't have a strong enough base to survive being reduced to New York, LA and then a bunch of also-rans every year.

[Katon]

Agree with most of this.

So alternatively Gerrard-Lampard-plus one-Beckham (l-r), as Becks deserves the place ahead of Cole...

Admittedly Gerrard is not as good on the left as the right (see Euro 2004) but Becks' crossing is something that we cannot afford not to have. I would argue that the three are all good enough players that we have to find a way of getting all three in the side: this is the only way of doing so.

(If we had a decent left sided player who proves himself prior to the WC - only real hope is Downing, but I think it's likely too soon for him after his long injury - then the fight would be between Gerrard & Lampard for the central spot. As we have a need, and a great player who can do a job, use him, otherwise one of the two has to sit - as in the DC position between Terry/Ferdinand/Campbell with Woodgate in there if he can stay fit for longer than five minutes)

But England does have someone who has proven himself over nearly a year, has been one of the best players on one of the top 2-3 club teams in the world, and can play on the left wing quite easily. Joe Cole. He's been one of Chelsea's top players since February and has been probably the best winger in the Premiership this season. Beckham's been very good for Real recently, but it's still not nearly that clear-cut a decision.

There's also the problem of having Beckham and Lampard in the same team. It would be one thing if Beckham stuck to the flank and focussed on crossing (which I think he does for Real, though I haven't seen them play in a while), but for the national team he tends to drift infield and try to play quarterback which puts Lampard noticeably off his game. The difference between Beckham and Cole is not worth inconveniencing both Lampard and Gerrard over.

[ISiddiqui]

What? Gerrard is having his best, most consistent year yet (last match vs. ManU withstanding). He's the only English player I've seen in the premier league (other than Rooney) capable of taking over a game single handedly.

If you want to get the best players on the field, I could see making a case for moving him to right back (although he'd probably be making forward runs more often than not) but I'd have a hard time sitting him on the bench.
As stated by others, Gerrard is far more of an asset on the right wing. He's not that great in the center of the midfield. Of course the problem is that Beckham will NOT be sitting while Sven is in charge, so that means this WC. Lampard is a better CM and thus should start over Gerrard in that position.

[Desnudo]

Shaun Wright Phillips ? Beckham's still probably the best crosser of the ball around - its a shame England's strikers aren't always good enough to take advantage of that in the air. He's a good winger, IMO.

Yes, if he wasn't stuck on the bench.

[bhlloy]

Agree with your analysis of Owen & the other forwards, although I would add that Owen should be in every important game for England - he by far our best forward, and his scoring record is fantastic.

Your opinions on Beckham though are simply misinformed - you appear to have swallowed the tabloid media message hook line and sinker (the same tabloid media who people cannot wait to jump on re: Sven). Beckham deserves his place in the England team, again in every important game, and he has been one of our best players on a regular basis for as long as I can remember (bar one short period).

I do agree that the captaincy side could be looked at, but dropping him is a ridiculous notion.

He is an easy target, being interested as much in fashion as football, has a cartoon-style wife, and comes across as being 'intellectually challenged' at times (although recently he has become much more worldly), and as such people get on his back. However, this is unjustified from his England performances, and from what I understand the majority of his Madrid performances.

Not from the games I have seen him in, although I'm not an England fan and therefore probably haven't seen as many games as you.

He drifts in and out of the games I have seen, and you have a real problem in that he doesn't want to play right wing, and is clearly the third best option at center midfield. I agree with everyone else in this thread who says that England's midfield seems to be a lot more coherent without Beckham in. I think Cole-Gerrard-Lampard with Carrick as the holding player works very well and Beckham can then be an amazing option off the bench.

Don't get me wrong, I still think Beckham is a great player and still one of the best passers of the ball in the world. From what I have seen though he just doesn't seem to "fit" in the England team. By all means, he has been playing very well for Real and I don't know what role he plays for them. I could be completely wrong.

Regards the captaincy - I see no reason why it shouldn't be given now to John Terry. Clearly a better motivator than Beckham and he's been in the squad for long enough. I also don't see how Beckham can be a role model seeing how many times he has been petulantly sent off over the last couple of years.

[daedalus]

It's not really that I think they (Beckham and Owen) *should* be replaced as much as I don't necessarily think they should have a lock on their respective positions. For example, last year when Wright-Phillips was playing and showed great form . . . it didn't matter. Because you knew he would never start over Beckham as long as Eriksson was picking the squad.

As for a replacement for Owen, I honestly could not come up with one. I vaguely recall Defoe making a case for it last year but not so much this year. Vassell has always seemed the economy version of Owen . . . who is just nowhere near as deadly. Owen is probably the best bet for England right now, especially paired with Rooney [assuming he stays in the good graces of the referees]. I'm just annoyed that some like James Beattie and Andy Johnson can never, ever get a look, regardless of what they are doing. Am I saying those guys are overlooked Ronaldo and Adriano? Absolutely not. Am I saying that they should be starting over either Rooney or Owen? Absolutely not. But they are/were succeeding and it would have been nice for them to have had a chance to have earn that spot, especially when Owen was going through a rough patch.

[AlexB]

Beattie & AJ are simply not good enough - especially Beattie. AJ did score a lot of goals last year, but at high percentage (approx 50%?) were from penalties after he launched himself salmon like in the penalty box. If he was not taking pens for Palace last year, the clamour for him to get an England chance would have been pretty low...

[KeyserSoze]

As a Real Madrid fan, I´ve seen a lot of Beckham's games, and I think that he should play in any national team (well maybe in Brazil no for talent and style). For me he has three tools that made him vital in the R. Madrid and England.

1- Free kicks and corners. He masters in free kicks and corners. And these are the kind of situations that can change totally a stale game. For example, the last Liga game, the Real Madrid was losing with Cadiz, but two goals of free kick (one of Beckham, the other of R. Carlos) changed the game.

2- Midfield crosses. Beckham didn't need to make the crosses near the box. He can make very dangerous diagonal crosses from 2/3 of the field, and these balls arrive too low to give a great advantage to the goalkeeper.

These is very useful since it allows a team that is not dominating a game, to put the pressure in the other team defense and goallie. And maybe make some goal.

3- Attitude. In the Real Madrid always has showed a great attitude in the field. He works where he is needed, fight every ball, and never give up. Outside the field he could be a "star", but inside the field for me has been a worker.

So for me he should play in any national team

[MIJB#19]

Drawn today, Euro2008 qualifying groups. Top 2 per group join Austria and Switzerland.

Group A: Portugal, Poland, Serbia & Montenegro, Belgium, Finland, Armenia, Azerbaijan, Kazakhstan
Three WC'06 qualifiers (Portugal, Poland, S&M), while Belgium missed WC'06 after being present in the previous five WC's. An interesting group with Portugal and S&M as the top favorites, but not by far. Poland, Belgium and Finland could definately be in the mix. The draw of Armenia versus Azerbaijan brings a rivalry to this group, but more importantly gives the five top teams three difficulty road games in 'middle Russia'.

Group B: France, Italy, Ukraine, Scotland, Lithuania, Georgia, Faroe Islands
Say hello to the 'group of death'. France and Italy sound like the top dogs, but Ukraine has proven in WC'06 qualifying matches to have moved into the top-tier of European teams. These three WC'06 qualifiers should be the three teams to battle it out. Scotland always has had peaks every ten years, so who knows what happens in fall 2006 to fall 2007. Lithuania and especially Georgia are trap games on the road, while the Faroe Islands could be able to win or draw a few at home.

Group C: Greece, Turkey, Norway, Bosnia-Herzegovina, Hungary, Moldova, Malta
What kind of group is this? I mean, these countries combine for like 15 qualifications for finals in Euro or WC tournaments all-time. With the pre-70's Hungary taking the lionshare. None of these teams made WC'06. Greece and Turkey have been the big surprises of the recent big tournaments (Greece Euro'04 champs, Turkey WC'02 third place), but Norway isn't much worse, maybe even better recently. Moldova and B-H could be trap games, espeically on the road. And watch out for Hungary. With this draw it's their best shot in about 20 years to return to a big tournament. Oh, Malta is also here. The over/under is at one point in twelve games. Take the over, they might get two or three.

Group D: Czech Republic, Germany, Slovakia, Ireland, Wales, Cyprus, San Marino
Oh goody, some nice rivalries here. The Czecho-Slovak derby is going to big in this group. Germany hasn't exactly been a, say, top ten team in Europe for the past five years, except in the summer of 2002. Still, aside from the Czechs, none are better, so they'll have a shot at making it. Ireland gets through qualification once in a while since the '90s, but they'll need to get past Slovakia, which is possible, and either the Czechs or Germans. Wales should play a good role of spoilers, but I don't see them capable of a top two spot. Cyprus might be in the mix until the spring 2007. Oh and San Marino is also here. If they draw one game, it'll be a success.

Group E: England, Croatia, Russia, Israel, Estonia, Macedonia, Andorra
Oh my, three good teams and four trap game opponents. Israel went trough the WC'06 qualifiers unbeaten, but missed that tournament. Russia have done great choke jobs the past decade and thus the English and Croatians should be the early favorites. Estonia and Macedonia shouldn't be underestimated, but they're not going to finish in the top two seats. Same with Andorra, they're known for losing a lot of games by 1-0.

Group F: Sweden, Spain, Denmark, Latvia, Iceland, Northern Ireland, Liechtenstein
Nice, it's not 'the group of death', but it's pretty close. Four teams made Euro'04 (Spain, Sweden, Denmark, Latvia), two made WC'06 (Spain, Sweden). I expected Latvia to have been a once in a lifetime kind of lucky to make Euro'04, althought they were pretty competititve again for the WC'06 qualifiers. But with Spain, Sweden and Denmark around, it will probably be a tree horse race. Iceland and Northern Ireland are capable of a few upsets here or there, while Liechtenstein have also recently proven to not be a zero-points team.

Group G: Netherlands, Romania, Bulgaria, Slovenia, Albania, Belarus, Luxembourg
Welcome to the eastern Europe group, with invitations to the red-white-and-blue flagged countries. Clearly, the Netherlands are the top dogs, but you'll have to wait and see what WC'06 will do to them. Especially since Romania, Bulgaria and Slovenia are eager to return to the big tournaments. Albania and even more so Belarus can be dangerous underdogs to slip into third of fourth place, but with so many good teams, not much higher either. Luxembourg is some sort of filler. If they win one game, the qualification stage will be sort of a success.

[Desnudo]

Beattie & AJ are simply not good enough - especially Beattie. AJ did score a lot of goals last year, but at high percentage (approx 50%?) were from penalties after he launched himself salmon like in the penalty box. If he was not taking pens for Palace last year, the clamour for him to get an England chance would have been pretty low...

Peter Crouch. Perfect for receiving Beckham's crosses, if that's the strategy Sven wants to employ. Although I still stick to my belief that Beckham needs to be replaced by a more prototypical winger. IMO, he only person who is irreplaceable in the squad is Rooney.

[AlexB]

Got a lot of time for Peter Crouch as a footballer: certainly he gives you something nobody else can: holds the ball up well, skilful on the ball, decent in the air (although not as good as he should be given he's 11' tall)...

Irreplaceable? Nobody, although Rooney is close as he gives you a far better chance against top opposition. Key players who should be in if fit? Robinson, Gary Neville, Ashley Cole, Beckham, Gerrard, Lampard, Rooney, Owen. All are a class above their nearest rivals for their position. We have four excellent central defenders who you can in effect mix and match, and a spot in midfield for whoever suits the situation best.

[SirFozzie]

*blink blink*

wow.

Robbie Fowler goes back to Liverpool, after flaming out so spectacularly there and going to Man City.

[3ric]

Fantastic to see Robbie back with the Reds, even if it's only as a fourth striker and for sentimental value. Two more goals and he's overtaking Kenny Dagliesh as the fourth-best goal scorer in Liverpool history.

[Crapshoot]

Fantastic to see Robbie back with the Reds, even if it's only as a fourth striker and for sentimental value. Two more goals and he's overtaking Kenny Dagliesh as the fourth-best goal scorer in Liverpool history.

""

"God" is back at Anfield - and aint life grand.

[moriarty]

*blink blink*

wow.

Robbie Fowler goes back to Liverpool, after flaming out so spectacularly there and going to Man City.


WHAT? I missed this one. I wonder if this means Cisse or Pongolle is now on the move.

Hell, Fowler at least can poke in sitters right in front of the goal which is more than Cisse managed at Man U. I wonder if this is a "make up" for failing to bring back Owen to the club when they're desparate for a consistent scorer, or if it's just a thank you to Fowler, and they'll release him at year end.

[SirFozzie]

Cisse's in trouble for smacking his wife.

[Young Drachma]

Close. Apparently the city was founded in 1836, hence the number in the name.



Creative in what way? They're basically getting ideas from other leagues. Chivas USA from Mexico, Real SL from Spain, DC United from England, FC Dallas from just about any Euro league, and now 1836 from Germany. Though I suppose it makes sense, a little, if you think about the fact that America is a melting pot of cultures, why not a melting pot of team name styles?

If they're going to keep doing this, go all the way and abolish the conferences and have one table. With the relative few number of teams (at the moment), play four against everyone else. Intersperse with games for the MLS Cup which feature everyone in MLS getting a crack at it and then you'll have domestic doubles and with the US Open Cup, a domestic treble. Still keep American ideas like the draft and a salary cap, though, because American soccer just doesn't have a strong enough base to survive being reduced to New York, LA and then a bunch of also-rans every year.


I like all your dieas, really. I think the conferences are silly and it doesn't allow the best teams to make the playoffs.

I am far more in favour of them having the Euro-style names for teams, than having silly names like the KC Wizards. Revolution makes sense for New England and MetroStars is ok, but bugs me at the same time. DC United works okay, too and Real Salt Lake was just silly, though I get why they did it.

Of course, this is a league with a team that has USA in its name. I mean, what's that saying about your league when an expansion team can't find its own stadium and is really native of a totally different country?

[moriarty]

Cisse's in trouble for smacking his wife.

First he smacks a kid, now he smacks his preganant wife??? Geez, and just when we got rid of Diouf too.

Funny thing is (well, nothing funny about smacking his wife), but Liverpool strikers have trouble scoring, and the two strikers they have loaned out to premier league clubs (Mellor, LeTallec) both scored this weekend.

[Critch]

Cisse's in trouble for smacking his wife.

He should smack his hairdresser too.

[Marc Vaughan]

Shocked at Liverpool signing Fowler today ..... I know City wanted shot of him (because he hadn't been particularly stellar and had a whopping wage) but for Liverpool to take him on bearing that in mind (and I'm presuming they've taken his salary with him?).

[moriarty]

Shocked at Liverpool signing Fowler today ..... I know City wanted shot of him (because he hadn't been particularly stellar and had a whopping wage) but for Liverpool to take him on bearing that in mind (and I'm presuming they've taken his salary with him?).

Only thing I can figure is this is to appease the fans (unless they really feel he'll revert to his old Liverpool form which I can't see happening).

I mean they've failed for over a year now to get a right winger. Rafa has received some stick that he hasn't brought in any English players to the club above the age of 17. They failed to bring back Owen when he wanted to return from Real. So why not bring back 'God' to Liverpool so the fans forgive the transfer market woes?

Either that, or they're using him as cover for Cisse whom they're shipping to France in exchange for a right winger. When does the transfer window close?

[SirFozzie]

end of the month.

[daedalus]

Beattie & AJ are simply not good enough - especially Beattie. AJ did score a lot of goals last year, but at high percentage (approx 50%?) were from penalties after he launched himself salmon like in the penalty box. If he was not taking pens for Palace last year, the clamour for him to get an England chance would have been pretty low...In no way, shape or form, am I suggesting either should be handed the starting spot at WC '06. On the other hand, if a Defoe or a Johnson was doing well in the Premiership, I see little harm in giving them a chance. As it is, there isn't. Come Hell, high water or FA secretaries, Owen starts.Irreplaceable? Nobody, although Rooney is close as he gives you a far better chance against top opposition. Key players who should be in if fit? Robinson, Gary Neville, Ashley Cole, Beckham, Gerrard, Lampard, Rooney, Owen. All are a class above their nearest rivals for their position. We have four excellent central defenders who you can in effect mix and match, and a spot in midfield for whoever suits the situation best.Don't know how Ferdinand's form has been but, man, on recent form, Sol doesn't even deserve to be on the squad let alone be considered to partner Terry. Ugh, why did Sol have to go and become Cyganized?

I haven't seen Woodgate lately but has he been good enough to earn a recall?

[daedalus]

Really, I probably am just bitter that Wenger made zero play for Nigel de Jong and Dean Ashton. Especially given De Jong's quality and the price.

Meanwhile, y'know, teams are fighting it out for various supposedly well-rated defenders (Aggers, Latka, Pele . . . Portuguese defender from Belenenses, not the OTHER Pele) and we just stand by and watch. I mean, we're starting Pascal Friggin' Cygan for Goodness' Sake!