Katrina hits Category 5.

[sterlingice]

What about the zoo? :(
They had a story on CNN about how one of the zoos (I think in Mississippi) had two dolphins and they loaded them up, transported them to a local hotel pool, treated it so it was salt water, and they were swimming fairly happily.

SI

[Tigercat]

Ah crap, I didn't even think of the zoo and the aquarium. The New Orleans aquarium is perhaps the best in the nation, hopefully since it was all constructed within the last 15 or so years, its somewhat stormproof, but there is so much glass in its construction, even on the outside... Worse yet the Aquarium is RIGHT on the riverfront.

The Audobon Zoo in New Orleans has also become one of the better zoos in the nation. Its build up a little higher than the surouding area and its well enough run that there are places to shelter most animals in the zoo. Hopefully both survived the storm well enough...

[sachmo71]

Ah crap, I didn't even think of the zoo and the aquarium. The New Orleans aquarium is perhaps the best in the nation, hopefully since it was all constructed within the last 15 or so years, its somewhat stormproof, but there is so much glass in its construction, even on the outside... Worse yet the Aquarium is RIGHT on the riverfront.

The Audobon Zoo in New Orleans has also become one of the better zoos in the nation. Its build up a little higher than the surouding area and its well enough run that there are places to shelter most animals in the zoo. Hopefully both survived the storm well enough...


Yes, if the river had overflowed, the zoo would be in deep trouble.

Also, I was just looking at the slides at WWL. Slidell got the shit kicked out of it.

[Tigercat]

I should have just searched right away. If this article is well informed, Audubon came out pretty good in the storm, the zoo and aquirium are ok, and only animal deaths are flamingos.

http://news.mongabay.com/2005/0830-new_orleans_aquarium.html

[SFL Cat]

I'm feeling very blessed and thankful when looking at the damage in LA, MI, and AL. When Katrina came through South Florida it was a Cat 1 and was much less severe than the storms we got last year. Palm Beach County was especially lucky since she jogged more to South. We got some strong wind gusts and some rain, but we didn't even lose power this time, except for a few times it flicked out and back on (we were without power for about a week and a half at this time last year). My heart goes out to everyone who got slammed by the monster it became out over the gulf.

[duckman]

FOX News is reporting that gunmen have fired their AK-47's at a New Orleans police station.

As looters stripped stores of items, sometimes in front of police, violence broke out in the Big Easy. At around 11 p.m. EDT, two gunmen with AK-47s fired shots into a police station. No one was hurt, and the men fled into the city's French quarter section.
Edit-- added excerpt from FOX News.

[Eaglesfan27]

I just got home from buying some extra food and stuff for at the hotel. This is just so sad to see police officers shot, hostages taken, and now AK-47's being fired :(


Edit: Wierd that I referred to the hotel as "home."

[JonInMiddleGA]

Edit: Wierd that I referred to the hotel as "home."

You've got a lot of people you care about right there with you ... using the word "home" doesn't seem all that weird to me ;)

Just remember, this is temporary, not permanent.

[DaddyTorgo]

Mayor what's-his-name is now saying that another levee is about to break and they've stopped trying to plug the 17th street one, the water is expected to rise to 3 feet above sea level all across the city. So a street that is 3 feet below sea level will end up with 6 feet of water.

doesn't look good. doesn't look good at all.

[Jesse_Ewiak]

Ya' know, I don't buy the bull Bush is an idiot but...

http://us.news3.yimg.com/us.i2.yimg.com/p/ap/20050830/capt.capm10208301856.bush__capm102.jpg

...but is the best thing to be seen doing if you're the President?

[CHEMICAL SOLDIER]

Small firefights in N.O. needs to be taken care of with force. Those yahoos need to be taught a lesson that they dont run the show.

[Loren]

While we have already donated a bunch of board games for the kids and some sports gear, it's not enough to satify a need to help. So I'll be pulling an all-nighter with the Red Cross tommorrow night starting at Midnight to help with whatever they need (boxing up supplies, taking care of pets that are stacked up in kennels, or running food lines. Thankfully, being in the Air Force, it doesn't take much to get the bosses to give you a day off so you can do that and then recover. It's not that easy for the private sector and why the Red Cross is hurtnig for help.

Since I'm in the area, it's the only thing I can really do to help, and you just can't help but feel a sense of urgency to help folks during times like this. It's pretty horrible to see this.

was watching the Texas news channel earlier and I know they said the statewide groecery store chain we have here, H-E-B is getting together in San Antonio and they're trying to find a place near ORleans where they might be able to plug in their huge mobile kitchens, they bring them around to poor communities int he state normally so they're going off to help..they're going to donate a lot of food and gather volunteers from the state and take them out there as well, im going to try to find out about that tomorrow. Im also waiting to see if Cringe's company that he drives for will start up a donation matching, that way whatever money we give we can make it bigger, i know they have companies they go to in some fo the affected areas so im thinking they will. I just cant believe these stupid ppl going around looting and shooting, like i KNOW it happens all the time with these disasters but come on, guess you HOPE soo bad it wont happen this time, that it's a million times more depressing when you see it does, it's just so senseless...I'd love to volunteer, but i cant leave town until my client has her baby, im sure there will still be much to do late next month so id like to then:( it's all very odd to me because I had the chance to go up there earlier this month, just a freak chance that i got asked to go by a friend..glad i took it and was able to see the city before all this happened, but it makes it pretty damn sad..k im done babbling:(

[Peregrine]

Ya' know, I don't buy the bull Bush is an idiot but...

http://us.news3.yimg.com/us.i2.yimg.com/p/ap/20050830/capt.capm10208301856.bush__capm102.jpg

...but is the best thing to be seen doing if you're the President?

Nice, there's even the Presidential seal on the guitar!

[Peregrine]

dola - Saw this on Slashdot, and it's pretty interesting! 9 weeks or more just to pump the water out of the city!


http://www.colorado.edu/hazards/o/nov04/nov04c.html

[Galaril]

I remember someone mentioned how was the Children's Hospital? I just heard on the radio that looters had surrounded the hospital and were trying to break in. The administrator said I guess by cell phone that the hospital was locked and secure but Police and national guardsmen couldn't get there do to the rising flood waters. :(

[JonInMiddleGA]

Wildlife and Fisheries workers rescued more than 3,000 people Tuesday, Sen. Mary Landrieu told a reporter.

This is a tiny sentence from one of the CNN stories online, but it's one of my favorite sidebars to the big picture so far.

I heard the director of the W&F division on TV yesterday afternoon & was struck by how common-sense their involvement in the rescue operations has been. I can't quote him, but the gist of it was "we're equipped for this sort of thing, with headlights & such on our boats, we're trained for this in so far as our people are used to working at night & in close quarters, we figured we could help, so that's what we're doing".

I probably don't do that nearly enough justice trying to explain it, the thing that impressed me was that here's an agency that seemed to be saying "here's something we can definitely do ... so let's go DO it". And that sort of common sense understanding of both needs & capabilities just impressed the hell out of me.

[chris3627]

This might sound like a stupid question, but is there any place that has satellite imagery of New Orleans and the damage there?

My brother is afraid that everything he has (had?) is gone, since the levees broke on the Ponchtrain and he's heard that 80% of New Orleans is underwater.

Any ideas of where I might find this kind of info?

/tk


Saw this info on that forum that Jim had recommended. The satellite pictures shown are just general pictures, not of specific areas. Warning, takes a while to load up on a slow connection.

hxxp://www.easternuswx.com/bb/index.php?showtopic=48689

[HomerJSimpson]

Before-

http://rapidfire.sci.gsfc.nasa.gov/gallery/2005239-0827/Louisaiana.A2005239.1925.721.1km.jpg


After-

http://rapidfire.sci.gsfc.nasa.gov/gallery/2005242-0830/Louisaiana.A2005242.1645.721.1km.jpg

[HomerJSimpson]

Look at how much wider the rivers are and how the land between the lakes just disappeared.

[Fonzie]

I just got home from buying some extra food and stuff for at the hotel. This is just so sad to see police officers shot, hostages taken, and now AK-47's being fired :(


Edit: Wierd that I referred to the hotel as "home."
I'm a bit late getting to this thread, but I'm glad to hear you and yours are OK. Hang in there EF27.

[Fonzie]

Dola-

Look at how much wider the rivers are and how the land between the lakes just disappeared.
Amazing.

[sachmo71]

Where did the news about the prison riots come from?

[Tigercat]

Wow, lake pontchartrain ate lake maurepas. I wonder if that will become a permanent feature now? Its something to see such a geographic change in one's lifetime, especially overnight.

Most of two parishes, Plaquemines parish (which was mostly the skinny land mass that lines the river after New Orleans) and St Benard parish (the penisula north of the river/plaquemines and east of NO), look to be totally wiped off the face of the earth.

[gstelmack]

Nice, there's even the Presidential seal on the guitar!
Can we please cut the political garbage once and for all, folks? Getting sick and tired of the handful of jabs against the President and Conservatives...

[Crapshoot]

Looters should be shot on sight. Harsh, yes, but the justice system isn't exactly working down there right now, and the only way to keep the thugs at bay is to demostrate zero tolerance.

In terms of dumbass statements, this certainly takes the cake. The priorities are getting people back and what not - not shooting people trying to get baby formula.

[Farrah Whitworth-Rahn]

In terms of dumbass statements, this certainly takes the cake.
I thought so too yesterday.

Then a police officer was shot in the head by looters, and a band of looters attempted to break into a children's hospital late last night. A children's hospital with patients still locked inside.

Franklin and JIMGA were 100% correct.

(link (http://www.nola.com/newslogs/breakingtp/index.ssf?/mtlogs/nola_Times-Picayune/archives/2005_08.html#075290) for hospital story - last story under Aug 30.)

[Farrah Whitworth-Rahn]

Dola - and the Saints are headed to San Antonio.

Saints to go to San Antonio

Wednesday, 12:50 a.m.

The Saints will fly to San Antonio following their 8 p.m. Thursday game at the Oakland Raiders and will make it their home base for the immediate future, said director of media and public relations Greg Bensel.

Several teams and communities offered assistance, but Saints owner Tom Benson has long-standing ties to San Antonio, his second home. The team evacuated to San Antonio before Hurricane Ivan last year.

The Saints are planning to practice in San Antonio until their season-opener Sept. 11 at the Carolina Panthers.

Where they will play the home opener, against the New York Giants on Sept. 18, is uncertain. General Manager Mickey Loomis and the NFL are looking into potential sites, and that would include college stadiums.

linky (http://www.nola.com/newslogs/breakingtp/index.ssf?/mtlogs/nola_Times-Picayune/archives/2005_08.html#075290)

[JeeberD]

Dola - and the Saints are headed to San Antonio.


There are rumors on the UTEP board that Tulane may play its entire season on the road this year. If that's true, I hope the teams that gain an extra home game both donate all the profits to Tulane/New Orleans and hold some sort of fund raising event in conjuction with the game...

[CamEdwards]

They're evacuating the Superdome refugees and putting them in... the Astrodome.

via the Associated Press.

[HomerJSimpson]

They're evacuating the Superdome refugees and putting them in... the Astrodome.

via the Associated Press.


That is surreal.

[Ben E Lou]

Governor about to hold press conference.

[Ben E Lou]

{My next few comments will be from the press conference, if it lasts any length of time}

--Confirming that all in Superdome (approx. 10,000) will be moved to Astrodome.

--Asking President for military presence so that National Guard can be freed up for security

[Ben E Lou]

President has authorized army to assist. Ships coming to help evacuation and provide supplies.

[Ben E Lou]

Now, the evacuation spokeperson says 23,000 are in Superdome.

[Ben E Lou]

Buses are on the way to Superdome now. Hospital patients also to be evacuated.

[Ben E Lou]

Purposes of military ships...


command and control
"assets" (supplies?)
housing (mainly of personnel, but could be a last resort for housing evacuees)

[Wolfpack]

How are the buses able to get there? I thought the Superdome was surrounded by water, not to mention all the roads leading into NOLA being submerged as well. I had visions of the evacuation of the embassy in Saigon in '75 (people clinging desperately to choppers and so forth).

[Masked]

I remember someone mentioned how was the Children's Hospital? I just heard on the radio that looters had surrounded the hospital and were trying to break in. The administrator said I guess by cell phone that the hospital was locked and secure but Police and national guardsmen couldn't get there do to the rising flood waters. :(
My parents are at Children's Hospital and I was very worried when I saw this report. I called my parents at about 1:45 central last night (about two hours after the report was first published), and apparently this story at nola.com was erroneous or at least geatly exaggerated. Security at the hospital is good; there is a SWAT team therel.

Children's Hospital has power, water (even hot water), and food; but it is one of the few buildings with even just one of the those three. So my parents are far more comfortable than most others in the city.

And for EaglesFan27, there is still no flooding in that area, and apparently the water is rising extremely slowly, if at all.

[CamEdwards]

apparently you can still get out (for now) as long as you're heading west. not sure how much longer that will be feasible.

[Ben E Lou]

How are the buses able to get there? I thought the Superdome was surrounded by water, not to mention all the roads leading into NOLA being submerged as well. I had visions of the evacuation of the embassy in Saigon in '75 (people clinging desperately to choppers and so forth).They said that's part of the problem of getting them there. If they've gotten specific about how they're going to get through the water, I haven't heard it. They've gotten bogged down in some very detailed discussion about how the evac is going to happen (names of roads/parishes/townships/etc.), and I haven't paid full attention to that at times.

[Galaxy]

My parents are at Children's Hospital and I was very worried when I saw this report. I called my parents at about 1:45 central last night (about two hours after the report was first published), and apparently this story at nola.com was erroneous or at least geatly exaggerated. Security at the hospital is good; there is a SWAT team therel.

Children's Hospital has power, water (even hot water), and food; but it is one of the few buildings with even just one of the those three. So my parents are far more comfortable than most others in the city.

And for EaglesFan27, there is still no flooding in that area, and apparently the water is rising extremely slowly, if at all.
I'm alittle confused, why are looters trying to gun down and break in to the Children's Hospital?

[Wolfpack]

I'm alittle confused, why are looters trying to gun down and break in to the Children's Hospital?


Children's Hospital has power, water (even hot water), and food

That'd do it in a place like New Orleans right now.

[Galaxy]

That'd do it in a place like New Orleans right now.

Oh yeah. But is the hospital not flooded and out of power?

[Ben E Lou]

Conference over....total evac may take up to 2 days.

[Masked]

How are the buses able to get there? I thought the Superdome was surrounded by water, not to mention all the roads leading into NOLA being submerged as well. I had visions of the evacuation of the embassy in Saigon in '75 (people clinging desperately to choppers and so forth).
There is still one way out of the city from downtown which has only minor flooding (2-3ft). The buses can cross the river to bypass the flooded parts of lakeview, Metairie, and Kenner. The interstate bridges to the west of the city were not affected by the storm surge.

[CamEdwards]

I'm alittle confused, why are looters trying to gun down and break in to the Children's Hospital?

There are also a great deal of narcotics inside of hospitals. I've heard reports of at least one drugstore looted not for diapers and formula, but for the drugs inside.

[Crapshoot]

Im curious - how many helicopters are available for this evacuation ? Surely they can commandeer private copters from Houston and all for this purpose, correct /

[FrogMan]

There are also a great deal of narcotics inside of hospitals. I've heard reports of at least one drugstore looted not for diapers and formula, but for the drugs inside.
That was my first thought about looters trying to break into the hospital. Power, hot water and such can't be taken and brought with you, drugs can...

FM

[Galaxy]

That was my first thought about looters trying to break into the hospital. Power, hot water and such can't be taken and brought with you, drugs can...

FM

Thats what I was trying to figure out.

[Wolfpack]

Fair point. Hadn't considered that junkies would be part of the (what is now becoming) Thunderdome crowd.

I do wonder whether New Orleans is a total loss at this point. I know there will be efforts to rebuild, but is it possible that it might not come to pass? One nightmare scenario to consider is that yet another storm may come out of the Gulf in September and deliver the coup de grace while the city struggles to recover. At this point, even a Cat 1 or 2 may be enough to finish the job.

[Galaxy]

Also, the alligators and snakes (I've heard sharks as well) in the streets. Thats scary as well.

[Ben E Lou]

They're showing some more video right now at wwltv

http://www.wwltv.com/perl/common/video/wmPlayer.pl?title=beloint_khou&props=livenoad

[Ben E Lou]

Fair point. Hadn't considered that junkies would be part of the (what is now becoming) Thunderdome crowd.

I do wonder whether New Orleans is a total loss at this point. I know there will be efforts to rebuild, but is it possible that it might not come to pass? One nightmare scenario to consider is that yet another storm may come out of the Gulf in September and deliver the coup de grace while the city struggles to recover. At this point, even a Cat 1 or 2 may be enough to finish the job.I wonder if the question of should it be fully rebuilt will be considered, actually. In light of the information regarding the 20th-century additions to the levees, I wonder if it shouldn't simply become truly "The Crescent City" once again.

[Wolfpack]

I would think an area with such historical significance as the French Quarter will likely be rebuilt and may effectively be the core of a newer (and probably smaller) city. But if so much is unrecoverable, do people displace around New Orleans, move to Baton Rouge, or what? Also, should agencies raze and remove what can't be recovered if an attempt to reduce the city to it's "crescent" origins is done?

[JonInMiddleGA]

http://apnews.myway.com//article/20050831/D8CASVK01.html
... New Orleans' homeland security chief, Terry Ebbert, said looters were breaking into stores all over town and stealing guns. He said there are gangs of armed men moving around the city.

The Times-Picayune newspaper reported that the gun section at a new Wal-Mart in the Lower Garden District had been cleaned out by looters.

Gunshots were heard throughout the night in Carrollton.

Police spokesman Marlon Defilo said an officer and a looter were wounded in a shootout. Defilo had no word on their condition. Three or four others were also arrested, he said.

One looter shot and wounded a fellow looter, who was taken to a hospital and survived.

Staff members at Children's Hospital huddled with sick youngsters and waited in vain for help to arrive as looters tried to break through the locked door, Blanco spokeswoman Denise Bottcher told the newspaper. Neither the police nor the National Guard arrived.

Authorities planned to send more than 70 additional officers and an armed personnel carrier into the city.

On New Orleans' Canal Street, dozens of looters ripped open the steel gates on clothing and jewelry stores and grabbed merchandise. In Biloxi, Miss., people picked through casino slot machines for coins and ransacked other businesses. In some cases, the looting was in full view of police and National Guardsmen.

What this looks to be turning into is a whole lot of prey for a smaller group of hunters.
If this isn't brought under control very soon, I stand by my belief that the aftermath may have a higher death toll than the storm. I feel sorry for the prey, I have no mercy at all where the predators are concerned.

[Ben E Lou]

I would think an area with such historical significance as the French Quarter will likely be rebuilt and may effectively be the core of a newer (and probably smaller) city. But if so much is unrecoverable, do people displace around New Orleans, move to Baton Rouge, or what? Also, do we (and when I say "we", I mean "we" as Americans and taxpayers to the federal government, which will likely bear the brunt of rebuilding costs) just raze and remove what can't be recovered if an attempt to reduce the city to it's "crescent" origins is done?I don't know all the answers, and I don't think anything should be mandated, but I can't escape the feeling that listening to A. Baldwin Wood in the early part of the 20th century was a bad, bad idea.

http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~fof/forums/showthread.php?t=42188

[capsicum]

After reading JonInMiddleGA last post all I can say is "Sick Bastards."

[Ben E Lou]

Mayor has suggested to parents that they should enroll their kids in schools in places to which they've evacuated. :(

[Greyroofoo]

After reading JonInMiddleGA last post all I can say is "Sick Bastards."

kill em all i say

[JonInMiddleGA]

Mayor has suggested to parents that they should enroll their kids in schools in places to which they've evacuated. :(

A statement that I'll bet is going to make him really popular with the destinations. One that may ultimately make it harder for them to find destinations for the refugees too.

[Klinglerware]

A statement that I'll bet is going to make him really popular with the destinations. One that may ultimately make it harder for them to find destinations for the refugees too.

But what is the alternative?

[vtbub]

Texas will open up it's schools. That's what their governor just said.

[Ben E Lou]

Wwltv is reporting that the water is still rising, and is starting to impact homes that are on "higher ground."

[Tigercat]

Yea, my family thats evacuated in Houston says Houston schools are already working on ways to bring in evacuated kids.

[Tigercat]

Something to remember about New Orleans and this situation and the question of if it should be rebuilt is that the city avoided a situation of this magnitude for hundreds of years. I don't see how New Orleans now is any different than if another big one hit San Fran. It would be different if New Orleans flooded like this even every 100 years, but... Hell with more attention to the wetland buffer zones and a little more work on the levees, this wouldn't have happened to this degree at all. New Orleans' situation will never be perfect, far far from it, but don't be so quick to amputate or cut apart a finger just because its badly broken. New Orleans adds culture to this country that no place else can replace, in a land of Mcdonalds and strip malls we can use all of that that we can get.

[Ben E Lou]

Something to remember about New Orleans and this situation and the question of if it should be rebuilt is that the city avoided a situation of this magnitude for hundreds of years. I don't see how New Orleans now is any different than if another big one hit San Fran. It would be different if New Orleans flooded like this even every 100 years, but... Hell with more attention to the wetland buffer zones and a little more work on the levees, this wouldn't have happened to this degree at all. New Orleans' situation will never be perfect, far far from it, but don't be so quick to amputate or cut apart a finger just because its badly broken. New Orleans adds culture to this country that no place else can replace, in a land of Mcdonalds and strip malls we can use all of that that we can get.According to the articles I've read, it has been less than 100 years since they built significantly anywhere but on the higher ground. Until the early 20th century (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/20th_century), construction was largely limited to the slightly higher ground along old natural river levees and bayous (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bayou), since much of the rest of the land was swampy and subject to frequent flooding. This gave the 19th century city the shape of a crescent along a bend of the Mississippi, the origin of the nickname (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nickname) The Crescent City. In the 1910s (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1910s) engineer and inventor A. Baldwin Wood (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A._Baldwin_Wood) enacted his ambitious plan to drain the city, including large pumps of his own design which are still used. All rain water must be pumped up to the canals which drain into Lake Pontchartrain. Wood's pumps and drainage allowed the city to expand greatly in area. However, pumping of groundwater (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Groundwater) from underneath the city has resulted in subsidence (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subsidence). This has greatly increased the flood risk, should the levees be breached or precipitation be in excess of pumping capacity, as would later happen in 2005 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005) in the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hurricane_Katrina). A major hurricane (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hurricane) could create a lake in the central city as much as 30 feet deep, which could take months to pump dry.

[Ben E Lou]

Looters in N.O. commandeered a forklift to break into a store.

[Buzzbee]

Something to remember about New Orleans and this situation and the question of if it should be rebuilt is that the city avoided a situation of this magnitude for hundreds of years. I don't see how New Orleans now is any different than if another big one hit San Fran. It would be different if New Orleans flooded like this even every 100 years, but... Hell with more attention to the wetland buffer zones and a little more work on the levees, this wouldn't have happened to this degree at all. New Orleans' situation will never be perfect, far far from it, but don't be so quick to amputate or cut apart a finger just because its badly broken. New Orleans adds culture to this country that no place else can replace, in a land of Mcdonalds and strip malls we can use all of that that we can get.
While I agree to a large degree, realize that the culture of which you speak is submerged under 20 feet of water. Sure, some of that will resurface, but the 'culture' of New Orleans has been changed forever.

[JonInMiddleGA]

But what is the alternative?

One thought (hey, I'm sitting here working, one is all I've had time for on this) might be temporarily double-shifting classrooms, facilities etc. AND use some of the currently unemployed N.O./LA teachers to staff the Louisiana classes. That would serve several purposes -- among them, jobs for the unemployed AND avoiding the cost burden falling on other systems quite so heavily. (although given the response from Texas, I strongly suspect the cost element has already been worked out, either with Louisiana or Federal funding).

[JonInMiddleGA]

New Orleans adds culture to this country that no place else can replace, in a land of Mcdonalds and strip malls we can use all of that that we can get.

And some of that "culture" is also what we see looting, and what we saw unwilling to take shelter as ordered, and unable/unwilling to leave entirely.

That may sound harsh, but it's also the straight truth.

[Klinglerware]

While I agree to a large degree, realize that the culture of which you speak is submerged under 20 feet of water. Sure, some of that will resurface, but the 'culture' of New Orleans has been changed forever.

I think people are more resilient than that. Remember all the hysteria after 9/11 about the end of American culture as we knew it (e.g., some pundits even thought that comedy would never be appropriate again)? Sure, some things have changed, but the essential character of NYC resurfaced quickly and the city just kept chugging along. I expect no less from New Orleans in a few years...

[Tigercat]

The problem is, nothing in south louisiana should exist as it does. This includes places that are relatively higher than others. All of it should be swamp land, home to a river that either expands all over the place distributing setiment in all directions, or home to a river that shifts depositing setiment to different places at different times.

Even if we are to just have a smaller seemingly safe New Orleans, it too will be unsafe one day unless the bigger concept is thought about and treated. And that concept is that the reason south louisiana exists was because of the river doing its own thing and depositing setiment over a wide area for millenia. And now that we have confined that river we MUST address its consequences, the erosion of wetlands. I am fairly confident, that if we had the wetlands we had 100 years ago, and still had the levees we have today, we would not be in this situation in New Orleans today.

But for years and years, for the most part the Federal government has turned a blind eye to wetlands erosion..... And even if we have a smaller higher New Orleans, gradually the wetlands will erode even more, until water is even further knocking down the door to the smaller supposedly safer New Orleans. A line has to be drawn eventually. I am confident ways can be found to protect whats left of the wetlands and coastlines. But I don't think giving up parts of the area as hopeless is the right way to go or the right mentality to take.

[GoldenEagle]

Gas stations here are swamped. There are rumors that you will not be able to get gas for a couple of days and that when they do reopen, it will be $4 a gallon.

I also heard a thing on the local radio that evacuees were looking for temp work. There is a common solution to this all. The government should open up hubs in Houston, Memphis, etc and put them to work. They could open up temp schools, etc near by.

[Crapshoot]

One thought (hey, I'm sitting here working, one is all I've had time for on this) might be temporarily double-shifting classrooms, facilities etc. AND use some of the currently unemployed N.O./LA teachers to staff the Louisiana classes. That would serve several purposes -- among them, jobs for the unemployed AND avoiding the cost burden falling on other systems quite so heavily. (although given the response from Texas, I strongly suspect the cost element has already been worked out, either with Louisiana or Federal funding).

Interesting - where would this be ? In LA ? itself ?

[sachmo71]

Trying to find my relatives who made it to Dallas some jobs right now. Starting me thinking about how many will even go back once the city is habitable again.
But it will be rebuilt. Too much industry there to just walk away.

[GoldenEagle]

Remember how I was saying my sister's boyfriend is in the MS National Guard? Well, he did not have to go down to the coast (already doing a tour in Iraq does wonders for getting out of stuff) but he talked to one of his friends down there. Again, this heresay, but the friend said there are dead bodies everywhere. They are washing up, caught in trees, etc. He said the death total in MS alone will shock people. :(

[JonInMiddleGA]

There are rumors that you will not be able to get gas for a couple of days and that when they do reopen, it will be $4 a gallon.

Although it's probably scant consolation, at least you can know you aren't alone on this one.

This is from, and about, Atlanta, http://www.ajc.com/news/content/business/0805/31bizgasprices.html

Some suppliers are rationing gasoline to retailers, so some stations may already be near empty.

With supplies uncertain, oil companies and larger wholesalers are ratcheting up prices, partly to slow demand. Some local wholesalers already are paying 65 to 80 cents per gallon more than they paid three days ago. That kind of price increase will hit the pumps within a few days.

On Monday, the scare talk was about prices hitting $3 a gallon at the pump. By Tuesday, that line had changed for the worse, said Tex Pitfield, president of Saraguay Petroleum Corp., which delivers gas to retailers.

"Depending on how much damage has actually taken place and the time involved in getting the infrastructure up and running, is $4 a gallon out of the question? Not necessarily," he said.

[FrogMan]

There are talks in the Quebec media that gas prices are about to jump from 1.094 $cdn per liter to 1.34 $cdn per liter in Quebec City. That is about 4.15 $us per gallon...

FM

edit: as a comparison, 1.09 $cdn per liter is about 3.40 $us per gallon

[HomerJSimpson]

Something is going down in a Bank in Gulfport. Armed officers are entering the building.

[albionmoonlight]

The breach of the levee and the inability to fix the breach has turned this from a disaster into the total destruction of the city.

[Ben E Lou]

Live news conference. Update on the 17th street canal's breach:



100 sandbags (300 pounds each) put there
This afternoon more will be dropped from copters
Levees on lake and river and secure
Attempting to close at breach
Attempting to close entrance from lake to canals
Lake level has equalized with interior water in city, should be no more new flow into city until high tide this evening (half a foot)
They've ordered more slings for sandbags*
1200 concrete barriers are being brought in, 250 have been delivered.

*--Slings get dropped from 'copters WITH the sandbags. They had run out of them.

[Ben E Lou]

I've got to run, but the news conference is being shown live on the wwltv site.

[sachmo71]

Something is going down in a Bank in Gulfport. Armed officers are entering the building.

I was wondering how long that would take.

[Buzzbee]

I think people are more resilient than that. Remember all the hysteria after 9/11 about the end of American culture as we knew it (e.g., some pundits even thought that comedy would never be appropriate again)? Sure, some things have changed, but the essential character of NYC resurfaced quickly and the city just kept chugging along. I expect no less from New Orleans in a few years...
80% of NYC wasn't flooded. The damage in Manhattan, while horrific, in no way compares to the damage seen along the Gulf Coast. Yes, people are resilient, and they will bounce back, but the lifestyle that was will never be again, at least not for a very long time.

I think 9/11's economic impact will end up being much greater (a negative effect whereas Katrina may end up bringing positive long-term economic effect due to rebuilding), but the cultural impact of the flooding associated with Katrina will be much, much more dramatic.

[HomerJSimpson]

I was wondering how long that would take.


Yeah, hasn't anyone seen "Hard Rain?"

[Crapshoot]

Okay, this level of looting is repulsive. I don't like drawing lines in the sand on it, but I think its one thing to try and get food because you have no options other than grocery stores- stealing Jeans and DVD players is a different thing. I recognize there is some level of hypocrisy in this - but they really can't buy food at this point- commerce doesnt seem to be happening.

[albionmoonlight]

I don't know why they are happy that the situation with the lake and the flood water has "equalized." It equalized because the lake totally flooded the city. It got as bad as it could get. We lost.

[JonInMiddleGA]

... whereas Katrina may end up bringing positive long-term economic effect due to rebuilding ...

I've already seen debate about whether there'll be any rebuilding in a large part of the Mississippi Gulf Coast. The gist of it was that the area was already so poor & underinsured that the money simply won't exist to RE-build for a lot of the damage/destruction.

Now what you brought up raises, in my mind at least, a point that I haven't seen discussed: there is a difference between rebuilding and new construction.

Maybe what the MS Gulf Coast economy looks like after Katrina is very different than what it looked like before?

[Ben E Lou]

Back. Anything new or interesting from the wwltv news conference?

[Mustang]

- stealing Jeans and DVD players is a different thing.

Could make a case for jeans since it is clothing...

[Farrah Whitworth-Rahn]

Could make a case for jeans since it is clothing...
A body can survive naked. Can't survive without food and water.

[Mustang]

A body can survive naked.

Sure.. ask the people to walk around naked..

[JonInMiddleGA]

My wife just left me a voice mail, telling me to try to find somewhere to fill up the car.
When she picked Will up at school for an dental appointment, the school was trying to find somewhere to fill up the buses ... the biggest gas station in our little town is out of gas & doesn't know when they'll be resupplied.

More than likely I think this is a product of Hooterville being at the low priority end of a very taxed supply chain, but it's still enough to be a worrisome harbinger of things that may be coming.

[Eaglesfan27]

My parents are at Children's Hospital and I was very worried when I saw this report. I called my parents at about 1:45 central last night (about two hours after the report was first published), and apparently this story at nola.com was erroneous or at least geatly exaggerated. Security at the hospital is good; there is a SWAT team therel.

Children's Hospital has power, water (even hot water), and food; but it is one of the few buildings with even just one of the those three. So my parents are far more comfortable than most others in the city.

And for EaglesFan27, there is still no flooding in that area, and apparently the water is rising extremely slowly, if at all.
I wonder if those SWAT teams are going around NOAH as well. In any case, at least your parents and the kids are ok. Our stuff can always be replaced. Thanks for the continued updates (our internet at the hotel was out for the last 3 hours to much consternation on my part.)

[Buzzbee]

My wife just left me a voice mail, telling me to try to find somewhere to fill up the car.
When she picked Will up at school for an dental appointment, the school was trying to find somewhere to fill up the buses ... the biggest gas station in our little town is out of gas & doesn't know when they'll be resupplied.

More than likely I think this is a product of Hooterville being at the low priority end of a very taxed supply chain, but it's still enough to be a worrisome harbinger of things that may be coming.
Interesting. My wife called about 15 minutes ago to tell me that at a little podunk gas station near her work there were 8 cars at the pumps and 15 cars waiting in line.

[Ben E Lou]

To N.O. exiles: apparently text messaging IS working on 504 area code phones.

[Eaglesfan27]

Another frustrating thing for me is that LSU Medical School is waiting until tomorrow to have a phone conference of all of the department heads. I was strongly contemplating starting to head to NJ tomorrow morning. Should I extend the room one more night now and wait til after that conference?

[KevinNU7]

I wonder if those SWAT teams are going around NOAH as well. In any case, at least your parents and the kids are ok. Our stuff can always be replaced. Thanks for the continued updates (our internet at the hotel was out for the last 3 hours to much consternation on my part.)
I'm curious, since you are a resident of the areas affected what are your plans for the next month?

[terpkristin]

Thanks SD for pointing that out.
I'd mentioned it before, but it's something so few of us think about when regular voice service doesn't work.

/tk

[Eaglesfan27]

To N.O. exiles: apparently text messaging IS working on 540 area code phones.
That is true. My MIL realized that the first night we were here. It's 504 area code by the way (I know it was probably just a typo.)

[albionmoonlight]

To N.O. exiles: apparently text messaging IS working on 504 area code phones.
I heard that. And have been sending. Of course, it will take something more than that to teach my Mom how to realize that she has a text message and send one in reply.

[Eaglesfan27]

I'm curious, since you are a resident of the areas affected what are your plans for the next month?
Good question. One I realized from looking at the cross-sectional topography maps that our place is actually one of the higher elevation levels in the city since it is very close to the Mississippi River. So, if looters don't break into our home (a big if) and if the roof and windows weren't damaged, we should have a home to go back to.

The plan right now is to head to NJ, which is where I'm originally from and where my very large family still lives. My mom is 1 of 13 kids and we have lots of uncles, aunts, and such that are offering us a place to stay.

The questions I'm trying to determine is:

Does LSU Medical School want me to move to Baton Rouge and find a place to live there and are we going to be working there?

If LSU tells me, sorry we don't have a paying job for you right now, than I'll almost certainly head to NJ until it is safe to return to New Orleans (a few months?)

I imagine I will try to find a job at a clinic or something temporarily in NJ. I know my medical school desperately wanted to hire me as staff for their psychiatry department last year. Are they going to want me to work for 3 months? Doubtful.

Also, I'd have to get a temporary license and a permanent license to practice medicine in NJ (really just a matter of paperwork) as I've put off getting my NJ license for the past year or two. I've put that off because I figured I still had time to do so in case we ever wanted to move back to NJ (It has to be done within 10 years of graduating medical school or you have to take tests if you wait longer.)

If it is only going to be a month (which seems more doubtful) than I probably won't work as hard to make sure that I find a job.

I guess ultimately, there are just many questions still. Least I have a big family that wants to see me, and I also have a fairly good amount of money built up (we were saving for a target of 100k down on a home by June of next year.) So, we'll be able to pay for our food and whatever while we are up in NJ staying at my relatives (rather than just being leeches.)

However, I think I'm going to talk to Mrs. Eaglesfan in a bit and see about extending the room one more day, so that I can see if there is anything posted from the LSU Medical School conference tomorrow to make sure they don't want us to return to Baton Rouge or some other area.

[HomerJSimpson]

I'd wait, EF. I'd say there is a pretty good chance you'll be heading to Baton Rouge.

[WSUCougar]

On CNN.com:
New Orleans mayor says Katrina killed hundreds -- maybe thousands -- of people in city, Associated Press reports.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Interesting. My wife called about 15 minutes ago to tell me that at a little podunk gas station near her work there were 8 cars at the pumps and 15 cars waiting in line.

Mini-version of gas hell around here right now. Lines are into the street at every station in town, price literally jumped 50 cents while I was in line, it's up 71 cents since 10 a.m. Adjacent county (Putnam) is out of gas, school officials are rumored to be trying to determine if they have enough on hand to run buses tomorrow or if they'll go ahead & shut down for the week. Reports of most stations being out in at least northern Bibb County as well (that's Macon area).

And the people in line? Well, let's just say I appeared to be one of the calmest & least agitated people trying to get gas. When I'm the voice of reason ... well, at that point you're probably pretty screwed.

[Wolfpack]

I am sooooooo glad I tanked up on Sunday.

[Galaxy]

Good question. One I realized from looking at the cross-sectional topography maps that our place is actually one of the higher elevation levels in the city since it is very close to the Mississippi River. So, if looters don't break into our home (a big if) and if the roof and windows weren't damaged, we should have a home to go back to.

The plan right now is to head to NJ, which is where I'm originally from and where my very large family still lives. My mom is 1 of 13 kids and we have lots of uncles, aunts, and such that are offering us a place to stay.

The questions I'm trying to determine is:

Does LSU Medical School want me to move to Baton Rouge and find a place to live there and are we going to be working there?

If LSU tells me, sorry we don't have a paying job for you right now, than I'll almost certainly head to NJ until it is safe to return to New Orleans (a few months?)

I imagine I will try to find a job at a clinic or something temporarily in NJ. I know my medical school desperately wanted to hire me as staff for their psychiatry department last year. Are they going to want me to work for 3 months? Doubtful.

Also, I'd have to get a temporary license and a permanent license to practice medicine in NJ (really just a matter of paperwork) as I've put off getting my NJ license for the past year or two. I've put that off because I figured I still had time to do so in case we ever wanted to move back to NJ (It has to be done within 10 years of graduating medical school or you have to take tests if you wait longer.)

If it is only going to be a month (which seems more doubtful) than I probably won't work as hard to make sure that I find a job.

I guess ultimately, there are just many questions still. Least I have a big family that wants to see me, and I also have a fairly good amount of money built up (we were saving for a target of 100k down on a home by June of next year.) So, we'll be able to pay for our food and whatever while we are up in NJ staying at my relatives (rather than just being leeches.)

However, I think I'm going to talk to Mrs. Eaglesfan in a bit and see about extending the room one more day, so that I can see if there is anything posted from the LSU Medical School conference tomorrow to make sure they don't want us to return to Baton Rouge or some other area.

EF, I didn't realize LSU was the school you were offer a contract to?

I would personally stay one more night, and wait to see what happens. At least the lone bright spot is you get to be with your wife (which doesn't happen often, correct?) and family.

I am curious, how is the NO airport? Is that flooded or damaged? Are flights grounded?

[Eaglesfan27]

Yeah, I work for LSU Medical School. I just extended the rooms for one more night (til Friday morning) so I can see what happens with the conference tomorrow. Hopefully, they post results of the conference and a plan tomorrow.

The NO Airport is reportedly in very good condition. It is open only for humanitarian flights such as evacuating medical emergencies or flying in supply/personel to help the region.


Edit: I was also offered a job as a professor at Tulane's Medical School and it was a very tough decision for a variety of reasons.

[GoldenEagle]

The rumor around my school is that we will be getting some students from Tulane and other schools damaged by the storm. It turns out we have quite a few openings in our dorm. That would be quite a drop off, going from Tulane to Delta State.

[Galaxy]

Yeah, I work for LSU Medical School. I just extended the rooms for one more night (til Friday morning) so I can see what happens with the conference tomorrow. Hopefully, they post results of the conference and a plan tomorrow.

The NO Airport is reportedly in very good condition. It is open only for humanitarian flights such as evacuating medical emergencies or flying in supply/personel to help the region.


Edit: I was also offered a job as a professor at Tulane's Medical School and it was a very tough decision for a variety of reasons.

Sounds like your wife and yourself are very good at what you do, so at least you have plenty of options in terms of jobs.

[JeeberD]

I am sooooooo glad I tanked up on Sunday.

I meant to fill up before I went to work Monday morning but forgot. Gas was at $2.50 at that point. When I got off of work eight hours later I filled up (luckily I was only down a 1/4 tank) at $2.53. Yesterday gas was up to $2.65. A couple of hours ago it was up to $2.79.

I'm really glad that I have a very short drive to work and that my car gets good mileage...

[Crapshoot]

Roffle- I told my roommate Sunday night to go out and get gas, and to buy foreign based oil stock (those without Gulf of Mexico operations) - so far, fine on that end. That being said, I dont think the oil disruption will be that immense, as it appears- those rigs are built to withstand pretty much everything/

[wbatl1]

Roffle- I told my roommate Sunday night to go out and get gas, and to buy foreign based oil stock (those without Gulf of Mexico operations) - so far, fine on that end. That being said, I dont think the oil disruption will be that immense, as it appears- those rigs are built to withstand pretty much everything/

Good news is most of the Gulf oil equipment was not damaged badly. Problem is that the shore based stuff needs powere, and also the gas is being rationed.

[JonInMiddleGA]

http://www.macon.com/mld/macon/12524944.htm

First reports of gas outtages in central Georgia (the places they're talking about are 1+ hours south of me, but similarly located kinda away from the bigger cities of Atlanta & Macon).

[HomerJSimpson]

I don't get paid till tommorow. I have about enough right to buy 1 gallon of gas. One vehicle is totally out of gas, and the other has a quarter of a tank. I'm screwed.

[KevinNU7]

EF thanks for sharing. It's good to know you have a place to turn. It is also great to know you have a bit of a nest egg to live on (I wish I did). From your reading I determined that you weren't a home owner, I guess that's good news considering the trouble you'd have to go through with that right now.

I hope all your stuff stays safe

[CHEMICAL SOLDIER]

Gas stations here are swamped. There are rumors that you will not be able to get gas for a couple of days and that when they do reopen, it will be $4 a gallon.

I also heard a thing on the local radio that evacuees were looking for temp work. There is a common solution to this all. The government should open up hubs in Houston, Memphis, etc and put them to work. They could open up temp schools, etc near by.
Opening up Public works program akin to the CCC of the 1930's should put them back to work.

[CHEMICAL SOLDIER]

On CNN.com:
I wouldnt doubt it. I wouldnt doubt the final overall too to be in the 4 if not 5 figure range. :(

[sterlingice]

Remember how I was saying my sister's boyfriend is in the MS National Guard? Well, he did not have to go down to the coast (already doing a tour in Iraq does wonders for getting out of stuff) but he talked to one of his friends down there. Again, this heresay, but the friend said there are dead bodies everywhere. They are washing up, caught in trees, etc. He said the death total in MS alone will shock people. :( I don't mean to sound insensitive but when Wolf Blizter was acting almost surprised that the mayor of New Orleans said maybe thouands were dead, I just wanted to dope lap him and say "no kidding".

SI

[WSUCougar]

A grim assessment that I read on another board:

I've got an engineering background. I do understand the magnitude of this disaster for New Orleans. It will be a massive undertaking just to restore the levees, pump all the water out of the city, and begin drying out. And that's just the water issue, for a city that exists below sea level next to the Gulf Coast prone to terrible hurricanes which have historically hit with comparable devastating results.

Beyond the water issue, the city will have to contend with the fact that most everything has been submerged for an extended period of time. Buildings, roads and bridges, utilities, all electrical equipment and everything else not designed for submersion will most likely fail to meet applicable regulatory codes and require complete replacement or significant repairs. The cost of doing that for an entire major city is mind boggling.

And then there's the environmental issue. Besides dead bodies and filth and vermin and such, there's toxic chemicals and other hazardous materials being released which will saturate the city. The cost to decontaminate the city to meet EPA regulatory standards will also be mind boggling, unless of course they're waived which then begs the question why we even have such stringent standards.

So. That's just a blunt assessment of the situation, as engineers are wont to do, and I don't mean to sound negative. The emotional reaction is of course to "rebuild the city - just like before!" and "do whatever it takes!" Maybe. But the real costs of recovering from this particular disaster may well prove to be prohibitive. We might just see officials reach a conclusion to completely evacuate and condemn an entire major US city. But probably not. Regardless of what decision is ultimately made, the recovery effort and cost is going to be mind boggling.

Prayers and best wishes for the people who lived there.

[Ben E Lou]

A grim assessment that I read on another board:That's more along the lines of what I was thinking when I posed the question about rebuilding on a much smaller scale.

[albionmoonlight]

Even if/when you spend the money to rebuild the city, how many businesses just won't exist anymore. My brother in law works for a refrigeration supply company whose main competition is based in Wisconsin. There is a good chance that by the time they are able to be up and running, there won't be any clients left.

Multiply that by the thousands of small businesses in the area and you start to get a sense of it.

[CHEMICAL SOLDIER]

I don't mean to sound insensitive but when Wolf Blizter was acting almost surprised that the mayor of New Orleans said maybe thouands were dead, I just wanted to slap him and say "no kidding, you dope".

SI
Saw that too. I cant believe someone who has been in the news busuness can act soo naive.

[Eaglesfan27]

EF thanks for sharing. It's good to know you have a place to turn. It is also great to know you have a bit of a nest egg to live on (I wish I did). From your reading I determined that you weren't a home owner, I guess that's good news considering the trouble you'd have to go through with that right now.

I hope all your stuff stays safe
Thanks. Nope, I'm not a home owner. At worst, I lose about 10-15,000 dollars worth of stuff (plus some sentimental stuff that we just couldn't fit into the cars.)

[Wolfpack]

He may be naive, but quite honestly, no one went into this thing looking for a Galveston-style body count. We just don't have huge numbers of casualties in hurricanes in this country anymore, so to start talking "thousands dead" is something that's a little challenging to get the mind around. Sure, intellectually, you can size up the deficiences and failures in New Orleans and come to a conclusion that hundreds or thousands died, but the actual acceptance of that is a little tougher to do, especially since, unlike 9/11, we could anticipate this disaster and still lost all those people.

[WSUCougar]

I didn't see it, but I wouldn't be surprised if Wolf's reaction was done for effect.

[Eaglesfan27]

I just emailed the person in charge of coordinating medical care on behalf of the state's disaster management response because I read on wwltv's website that they are looking for doctors (and an email address was given.) If they are willing to guarantee that an apartment will be available for rent that will house my family, or that another similar housing arrangement will be available to house my family (including pets) I'll head back to either Baton Rouge or one of the other medical staging areas to help treat patients.

I'm anxiously waiting for a reply (but realize it might take some time depending upon how many doctor's are writing her.)

[GoldenEagle]

Here is an interesting article from a UK paper:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlatest/story/0,1280,-5246049,00.html

[WSUCougar]

For the click-challenged:

By DANICA KIRKA

Associated Press Writer

VIENNA, Austria (AP) - From papal prayers to telegrams from China, the world reacted with an outpouring of compassion Wednesday for the victims of Hurricane Katrina in messages tinged by shock that a disaster of this scale could occur in the United States.

Islamic extremists rejoiced in America's misfortune, giving the storm a military rank and declaring in Internet chatter that ``Private'' Katrina had joined the global jihad, or holy war. With ``God's help,'' they declared, oil prices would hit $100 a barrel this year.

Venezuela's government, which has had tense relations with Washington, offered humanitarian aid and fuel if requested.

The storm was seen as an equalizer - proof that any country, weak or strong, can be victimized by a natural disaster. Images of flood-ravaged New Orleans earned particular sympathy in central Europe, where dozens died in raging floodwaters only days ago.

``Nature proved that no matter how rich and economically developed you are, you can't fight it,'' says Danut Afasei, a local official in Romania's Harghita county, where flooding killed 13 people last week.

Throughout Europe, concerned citizens lamented the loss of life and the damage caused to New Orleans, often described as one of North America's most ``European'' cities.

French President Jacques Chirac and German Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder sent messages of sympathy to President Bush. Chirac, who has famously quarreled with Bush over the Iraq war, addressed this letter, ``Dear George.''

Pope Benedict XVI said he was praying for victims of the ``tragic'' hurricane while China's President Hu Jintao expressed his ``belief that that the American people will definitely overcome the natural disaster and rebuild their beautiful homeland.''

Britain's Queen Elizabeth II also sent a message to Bush saying she was ``deeply shocked and saddened'' at the devastation caused by the hurricane and expressing her condolences, ``especially to the families of those who have lost their lives, to the injured and to all who have been affected by this terrible disaster.''

The U.S. Embassy in Bern, Switzerland - a capital at the foot of the Alps hit by flooding last week - said calls were rushing in from Swiss individuals and institutions looking for a way to donate to relief efforts.

``We are getting calls from the Swiss public looking to express their condolences, (and) people are also asking for an account number where they can make donations,'' said spokesman Daniel Wendell.

The Internet-edition Vienna daily Der Standard had recorded 820 postings commenting on a front-page story on the hurricane. In one of the postings, signature ``Emerald'' asked where money could be donated to the victims, but the question sparked a debate about whether a rich country like the United States needed such aid.

In response, one posting, from signature ``far out,'' argued that hurricane victims who are poor still needed support.

Amid the sympathy, however, there was criticism.

As U.S. military engineers struggled to shore up breached levees, experts in the Netherlands expressed surprise that New Orleans' flood systems failed to restrain the raging waters.

With half of the country's population of 16 million living below sea level, the Netherlands prepared for a ``perfect storm'' soon after floods in 1953 killed 2,000 people. The nation installed massive hydraulic sea walls.

``I don't want to sound overly critical, but it's hard to imagine that (the damage caused by Katrina) could happen in a Western country,'' said Ted Sluijter, spokesman for the park where the sea walls are exhibited. ``It seemed like plans for protection and evacuation weren't really in place, and once it happened, the coordination was on loose hinges.''

The sympathy was muted in some corners by a sense that the United States reaped what it sowed, since the country is seen as the main contributor to global warming.

Joern Ehlers, a spokesman for World Wildlife Fund Germany, said global warming had increased the intensity of hurricanes.

``The Americans have a big impact on the greenhouse effect,'' Ehlers said.

But Harlan L. Watson, the U.S. envoy for negotiations on climate change, denied any link between global warming and the strength of storms.

``Our scientists are telling us right now that there's not a linkage,'' he said in Geneva. ``I'll rely on their information.''

[JonInMiddleGA]

The U.S. Embassy in Bern, Switzerland - a capital at the foot of the Alps hit by flooding last week - said calls were rushing in from Swiss individuals and institutions looking for a way to donate to relief efforts.

``We are getting calls from the Swiss public looking to express their condolences, (and) people are also asking for an account number where they can make donations,'' said spokesman Daniel Wendell.

Not meaning to belittle any of the other expressions at all, but I thought this was particularly classy on their part.

[CHEMICAL SOLDIER]

For the click-challenged:
Seems like the ''enlightened'' dutch and europeans try to spit on our face again. Lets see something big like this happen to their country.

[Ben E Lou]

Here's one thing I haven't heard yet: now that the water has reached equilibrium, I assume that the agenda would be (broadly speaking)...

1. fix the breaches in the levees
2. get the water out
3. assess rebuilding needs

My main question would be regarding #2. How long is it expected to take to get all that water out of the city? This isn't a normal flood scenario, where the waters eventually recede.

[Chubby]

Here's one thing I haven't heard yet: now that the water has reached equilibrium, I assume that the agenda would be (broadly speaking)...

1. fix the breaches in the levees
2. get the water out
3. assess rebuilding needs

My main question would be regarding #2. How long is it expected to take to get all that water out of the city? This isn't a normal flood scenario, where the waters eventually recede.
using the pumps they already have I guess? but i think it gets pumped into the lake which is obviously well above normal levels so I have no idea...

[terpkristin]

In terms of pictures, I've also been scouting through the flickr Hurricane Katrina pool of pictures, to see if there's any more information that can be gleaned from those pictures.

http://www.flickr.com/groups/45871688@N00/

/tk

[WSUCougar]

Here's one thing I haven't heard yet: now that the water has reached equilibrium, I assume that the agenda would be (broadly speaking)...

1. fix the breaches in the levees
2. get the water out
3. assess rebuilding needs

My main question would be regarding #2. How long is it expected to take to get all that water out of the city? This isn't a normal flood scenario, where the waters eventually recede.
I've seen a Corps of Engineers estimate of 30 days once the levee is repaired.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Seems like the ''enlightened'' dutch and europeans try to spit on our face again. Lets see something big like this happen to their country.
Well, the Dutch do tend to be a very blunt people. It's part of their charm. And based on the diagrams of the city in the "New Orleans" threads, if the Duthcman is right and there are superior technologies available that could have prevented the breach of the levies (assuming it's not completely outrageous, and if the Netherlands can do it, I assume it's not), he has a point.

[KevinNU7]

The Dutch don't have hurricanes. It's completely different then what their system is set-up to take

[HomerJSimpson]

Seems like the ''enlightened'' dutch and europeans try to spit on our face again. Lets see something big like this happen to their country.


Huh? That's some selective reading there, chief. There is only a few of comments for criticism (and some hit right on the mark, honestly), but the majority of it is people actually saying they want to help. I don't know why, but it is nice to see.

[GoldenEagle]

In terms of pictures, I've also been scouting through the flickr Hurricane Katrina pool of pictures, to see if there's any more information that can be gleaned from those pictures.

http://www.flickr.com/groups/45871688@N00/

/tk
Some of those pictures are from damage of Mississippi College which is about two and half hours inland. You can only imagine what the coast looks like. There is a report that one of the 4A high schools, D'Iberville, has completely vanished. Also, the MHSAA has cancelled all high school football games for the state.

[Eaglesfan27]

I think the logistical problems behind building that gate between Lake Ponchartrain and the Gulf would seem to be quite significant. The Lake isn't right against the Gulf and it would seem there would be multiple problems in making that work. However, I certainly hope they come up with some plan that works to protect the city in the future.

[KevinNU7]

I think the logistical problems behind building that gate between Lake Ponchartrain and the Gulf would seem to be quite significant. The Lake isn't right against the Gulf and it would seem there would be multiple problems in making that work. However, I certainly hope they come up with some plan that works to protect the city in the future.
And I don't know if it would work. As the water level in the Gulf rises as the hurricane approaches it could fill the Lake up and spill into the City that way

[GoldenEagle]

Is anyone else having trouble getting cell phone access? I use Cellular South and I really can not make any calls. I am not sure if anyone has been trying to call me. I am sure it has something do with maybe a tower or two being knocked down and overload the functioning towers.

[Peregrine]

I think the logistical problems behind building that gate between Lake Ponchartrain and the Gulf would seem to be quite significant. The Lake isn't right against the Gulf and it would seem there would be multiple problems in making that work. However, I certainly hope they come up with some plan that works to protect the city in the future.

From what I've read, the system is so complicated that a lot of things they do to help against hurricanes often have unexpected consequences. For example I read that a new hurricane baffle/bridge that was built across the canal that has now broken is too low for barges with construction cranes to get across, slowing the effort to seal the breach.

[cartman]

Is anyone else having trouble getting cell phone access? I use Cellular South and I really can not make any calls. I am not sure if anyone has been trying to call me. I am sure it has something do with maybe a tower or two being knocked down and overload the functioning towers.

Plus the towers have to hook back into landlines at some point, so I'm sure that there are tons of substations that are still flooded or without power.

[CHEMICAL SOLDIER]

To anyone in Atlanta area: CNN is reporting that gas is as high as $4.99 and is strictly rationed because of a 10 day supply. can anyone confirm this?

[Ben E Lou]

To anyone in Atlanta area: CNN is reporting that gas is as high as $4.99 and is strictly rationed because of a 10 day supply. can anyone confirm this?I'm heading out the door of the office in a few moments. I'll pass several gas stations on the way home. I'll let you know the prices.

--Ben

[KevinNU7]

To anyone in Atlanta area: CNN is reporting that gas is as high as $4.99 and is strictly rationed because of a 10 day supply. can anyone confirm this?
Good god! If this moves up north I won't be able to drive to work

[panerd]

Call this the skeptic in me, but weren't gas prices on Sept 11, 2001 spiking like 75-100%? And within a few days they were back to a somewhat reasonable price. I am in the belief that our worries of a major 70's like oil crisis are way overblown and those who are buying the gas at $3/$4 a gallon are just being bullied by the gas stations.

[Radii]

My wife was driving home and saw 10+ car lines going out into the streets and highways at many gas stations in the Duluth and Norcross areas(NE Atlanta), but the highest price she saw was $3.27. Someone I know at work said that his wife saw gas nearing $5.00 on Memorial Drive near Stone Mountain. I don't know that area well though to point out an exacat location.

[Chubby]

I would love to know how they can justify the hurricane spiking gas prices right now since the gas was obviously drilled and refined a while ago and certainly well before the hurricane.

it's just people making a buck

[Radii]

I'm driving home as well, I pass 7 or 8 gas stations, will report on the lines and prices when I get home.

[Airhog]

EF, I didn't realize LSU was the school you were offer a contract to?

I would personally stay one more night, and wait to see what happens. At least the lone bright spot is you get to be with your wife (which doesn't happen often, correct?) and family.

I am curious, how is the NO airport? Is that flooded or damaged? Are flights grounded?


From what I heard at lunch, the airport was not significantly damaged. However, there is no electricity to the airport, and all communications is being done by hand-held equipment. As was posted earlier they are using the airport for humanitarian aid, and also a staging ground for all of the emergency services.

[KevinNU7]

http://www.atlantagasprices.com/

Scroll down and check out the highest prices in the last 24 hours

[bob]

I heard 4.75 off of Haynes Bridge in Alpharetta, but that was only one station.

[HomerJSimpson]

The gas station near the house was so full that I couldn't get close enough to see the price. It is mass hysteria at its finest.

[Franklinnoble]

The opportunistic oil company executives and gas station owners should be shot along with the looters.

[HomerJSimpson]

FEMA: Some people will not be able to get back to their homes for months, if ever.

[sterlingice]

Call this the skeptic in me, but weren't gas prices on Sept 11, 2001 spiking like 75-100%? And within a few days they were back to a somewhat reasonable price. I am in the belief that our worries of a major 70's like oil crisis are way overblown and those who are buying the gas at $3/$4 a gallon are just being bullied by the gas stations.
Well, there were some places that went from around $1.50 to over $5. But, in general, prices didn't spike that much. That said, the places in Kansas and Missouri who did that were prosecuted by the Attorney Generals for price gouging.

SI

[wbatl1]

Atlanta prices are anywhere between 3.30 and 5.50, depending on the capitalist nature of the owners. All the stations are jammed. However, there is no shortage, according to the government, because we, GA, get most of our gas from our ports. We do not have a problem with gas shortages, it's just mass hysteria.

[bob]

They just showed a BP selling gas for 5.57 in Atlanta - across the street from another station (Amoco maybe) at 3.69.

Edit - Shown on Fox News, it was actually at 5.87.

[Tigercat]

Well in case anyone wanted to hear some personal good news, my parents house in the western suburbs apparently came out nice and dry on the inside. Also, people can even return tomorrow if they wanted to, they just wouldn't have all the utilities. The thing is, apparently its going to be the first area in New Orleans to get the electric companies in starting now until next week.

I was planning on moving back to N.O. today or tomorrow, as my lease up here ran out today and I had my last day at work yesturday. I couldn't go down there right away however, but my apartment complex heard my situation and offered me a week by week lease(normally just a year lease place). It sure beats my plan of camping out for a while. Always good to have people help you out even a little in situations like this.

But it looks like we, as part of our larger family, I will be heading to my parents house and we will be serving as home base and a place to stay for our relatives in the New Orleans area. And I wouldn't be surprised if St Charles Parish ends up serving as the same for lots of people all over the city.

[Airhog]

It jumped up to about 3.00 a gallon on average around here. But Ive seen it as low as 2.87 this evening....

[Masked]

Gas prices appear relatively unchanged around San Jose - about 2.80/gallon

[cartman]

Gas prices appear relatively unchanged around San Jose - about 2.80/gallon

Since there is are refineries in Richmond, I don't expect the Bay Area to see a spike, unless the pipelines to the refineries are supplied from the Gulf Coast area.

[chris3627]

Here's one thing I haven't heard yet: now that the water has reached equilibrium, I assume that the agenda would be (broadly speaking)...

1. fix the breaches in the levees
2. get the water out
3. assess rebuilding needs

My main question would be regarding #2. How long is it expected to take to get all that water out of the city? This isn't a normal flood scenario, where the waters eventually recede.

I've seen a Corps of Engineers estimate of 30 days once the levee is repaired.

In reading an article from the Times-Picayune....

In the two-pronged operation, the huge sandbags and “concrete jersey-barriers are being dumped into the flood-wall breach,” by the Corps, the general said at a press conference in Baton Rouge early Wednesday afternoon where a New Orleans Sewer and Water official and U.S. Sens. Mary Landrieu and David Vitter also spoke.

“We’ll certainly have to build it up quite a bit just to restore temporary integrity,” the general said.

If these two attempts are successful, and the lake recedes more, the next step will start as soon as the city gets power to their pumps, he said. The temporary plug at the lakeshore will then be removed so that pumping station Number 6, which he said handles about 10,000 cubic feet of water per second, can began pushing water out of that canal into the lake, he said.

“It should take a minimum of 30 days to get the water out of the system,” he said. “Then of course after that there’s quite a lot of sediment and debris and a lot of material to be removed, and it will take much longer to get that,” he said.

“We have a contractor with three barges of rock that’s out on the lake now,” he said. “The challenge is getting access to the site –- inside the canal to the flood-wall, but it possibly can be used at the entrance to the lake although we prefer to use something more temporary that we can remove quickly.”

Thirty days is a long time and the general in the army corps put that as the minimum. Seems like if everything goes well and this or that doesn't get messed up. Then there's the cleanup of everything else that is in the water now and cleaning up once of all this once the water leaves.

[Ben E Lou]

Prices ranged from 2.79 to 3.99 between my office and home. Lines were incredibly long. Gov. Purdue says that we will *not* run out, that it is an urban legend.

[Radii]

Good to hear Tigercat!


On my drive home, I did not see a single gas station over $3.00. $2.89 and $2.99 all over the place. The brand new Kroger gas station had a *line* of at least 30 cars. they were $2.89 and offer 3 cents off to anyone with a kroger card, 10 cents off if you've spent $100 at the store.

The biggest station I pass is a RaceTrac on Pleasant Hill, 24 pumps. All 24 were full, there were cars in line for most of them and about 12 cars in line out onto Pleasant Hill itself. I would guess there were 50-55 cars in total there. Gas was $2.99 there.

A small Texaco a bit further away from the mall/interstate has simply taken its prices down, so I don't know what they are there, though I suspect gouging. It's a small station with 10 pumps I believe, and there were about 15 cars in all at that station.

Insantiy.

[Eaglesfan27]

Well in case anyone wanted to hear some personal good news, my parents house in the western suburbs apparently came out nice and dry on the inside. Also, people can even return tomorrow if they wanted to, they just wouldn't have all the utilities. The thing is, apparently its going to be the first area in New Orleans to get the electric companies in starting now until next week.

I was planning on moving back to N.O. today or tomorrow, as my lease up here ran out today and I had my last day at work yesturday. I couldn't go down there right away however, but my apartment complex heard my situation and offered me a week by week lease(normally just a year lease place). It sure beats my plan of camping out for a while. Always good to have people help you out even a little in situations like this.

But it looks like we, as part of our larger family, I will be heading to my parents house and we will be serving as home base and a place to stay for our relatives in the New Orleans area. And I wouldn't be surprised if St Charles Parish ends up serving as the same for lots of people all over the city.
That is very good news :)

[sterlingice]

Since there is are refineries in Richmond, I don't expect the Bay Area to see a spike, unless the pipelines to the refineries are supplied from the Gulf Coast area.
See- that's the thing. It's not about refineries or anything at this point. It's about seeing how much cash you can squeeze out of a paranoid populace.

SI

[Ben E Lou]

Prices ranged from 2.79 to 3.99 between my office and home.Oh, and that range is particularly strange because...

I live less than 5 miles from my office.
The first gas station I pass is around 2 miles from my office.
The last gas station I pass is around 1 mile from my home.
So, the prices ranged from 2.79 to 3.99 in less than a 2-mile span.

[Eaglesfan27]

I'm starting to look at "corporate furnished apartments" in the Baton Rouge area to see if any have vacancies for the next months as a possible plan. I left messages with a few of them and we'll see if any of them get back to me today or tomorrow.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Prices ranged from 2.79 to 3.99 between my office and home. Lines were incredibly long. Gov. Purdue says that we will *not* run out, that it is an urban legend.

Problem with that is ... we're ALREADY out in some places.

Now, is that because of a shortage or panic buying or whatever ... {shrug}.
The "why" isn't as important as the "what" out here in the boonies today.

We've got police trying to direct traffic around a couple of the stations now, the lines at running about 45 minutes as of 4pm or so, and there's already been several pushing/shoving/nose-to-nose confrontations. It doesn't take much for tempers to flare in long lines, add the heat, and add the pressure of "no gas, no job" & this may get ugly in at least isolated areas.

I think the guv's prepared text (I haven't heard him directly but I've seen the planned transcript) will prove accurate -- basically a 3-5 day wrinkle with scattered outtages/shortages. Problem is, that's all that matters if you're in one of those areas that are high & dry.

edit to add: Oh, btw, I appear to have hit the prize-gouging lottery when I bought my gas earlier. Station two blocks away is fifty cents cheaper, and that's about what all the others who still have gas are pricing as of 4pm.

[Masked]

The (very) good news: My parents are safely out of the city now. They had no trouble driving out of the city from Children's Hospital earlier today.

The bad news: Our house was a quarter block from the 17th St. canal, and I have seen pictures of the neighborhood several times on the WWL-TV feed. There is at least 10 ft of water in the street, and thus anywhere from 6-8 feet of water in the house.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Well in case anyone wanted to hear some personal good news, my parents house in the western suburbs apparently came out nice and dry on the inside.

Glad to hear it, all good news is welcome AFAIC.

[sterlingice]

The (very) good news: My parents are safely out of the city now. They had no trouble driving out of the city from Children's Hospital earlier today.

The bad news: Our house was a quarter block from the 17th St. canal, and I have seen pictures of the neighborhood several times on the WWL-TV feed. There is at least 10 ft of water in the street, and thus anywhere from 6-8 feet of water in the house.
Yay! and Suck :(

SI

[wbatl1]

Georgia governor Perdue says Price Gouging is going on. http://www.ajc.com/news/content/news/breaking/katrina/31perdue.html


Perdue declares state of emergency
> Fuel prices prompt move to prevent price gouging

> By JAMES SALZER, NANCY BADERTSCHER
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
> Published on: 08/31/05
Declaring that there's "credible evidence" of price-gouging at the gas pumps, Gov. Sonny Perdue late Wednesday signed an executive order threatening to impose heavy fines on gasoline retailers who overcharge Georgia drivers.

"When you prey upon the fears and the paranoia, it is akin to looting, and it is abominable," Perdue said at a hastily called, 6 p.m. press conference.

"I'm frankly embarrassed to have to do this," the governor said.

Less than four hours earlier, Perdue said there was little he could do. But he told reporters that, after hearing reports of gas prices in the $4, $5 and $6 range, he and his staff determined that they could declare a state of emergency and put into place the state's anti-price gouging law.

That law was last used last year to keep hotels and motels from overcharging people fleeing from Hurricane Ivan.

Derrick Dickey, a Perdue spokesman, said retailers who violate the law could be hit with a fine of up to $5,000 for each person they overcharge and up to $15,000 if the victim is a senior citizen.

The governor told reporters that the state can track what retailers pay for their gas at the terminal and what they then charge consumers.

"I want it stopped, and I want it stopped now," Perdue said.

The state anti-gouging law does not prevent retailers from selling gas at higher rates but bars them from charging what the governor called "unreasonable or egregious" prices.

It was last used after Hurricane Ivan hit Georgia.

"We will not tolerate the exploitation of Georgia consumers as we recover from the effects of Hurricane Katrina, Perdue said, adding that violators will be punished to the fullest extent of the law.

The price gouging law allows retailers to increase prices based on the increases they are experiencing in transportation and market forces.

Perdue, in an earlier press conference, suggested that Georgians stay home over the Labor Day weekend to cut fuel consumption and make sure the state doesn't run out of gas because of supply disruptions caused by Hurricane Katrina.

"Forgoing our trips over the Labor Day weekend and staying home and enjoying our families ... is one of the better things we can do," Perdue said during a press conference at the American Red Cross headquarters in Atlanta. "Just hang out with your families and enjoy their company. Any discretionary driving you planned, why don't you just relax and spend the time with your children, with your parents, and with your families at home."

Perdue said there is no reason to panic about gas shortages and rising prices. He told reporters that fuel shipments are continuing to arrive at Georgia Ports, and that Colonial Pipeline, the largest pipeline distributing fuel into Georgia, expects to be largely operational by the Labor Day weekend.

"There does appear to be some spot shortages in unbranded, spot-purchasing service stations," he said. "We expect that to be a temporary problem.

"There is no reason to panic. There is plenty of gas on the way. The only way we would have problems is if people rush out and try to horde and try to accumulate gasoline they won't need for a while."

Perdue said the DOT is lifting truck driving restrictions to allow deliveries 24 hours a day. Perdue encouraged companies to allow more employees to tele-work this week.

He also called on Georgians to give cash donations to charities like the Red Cross to help the hundreds of thousands of people from Gulf states having to deal with the disaster. Georgia has opened seven shelters around the state to provide a place for refugees to go, and the state has sent three National Guard CH-47 Chinook heavy-lift helicopters and personnel to the region to help in the relief efforts.


Georgia Hurricane Katrina shelter locations:


Adamsville Recreation Center, 3201 MLK Jr. Drive, Atlanta, GA


Georgia FFA SCCA Center, 720 FFA Road, Covington, GA


SW GA Chapter, Henderson Gym, 701 Willard Street, Albany, GA


Central Avenue Church of Christ, 304E Central Avenue, Valdosta, GA


Hilton Terrace Baptist Church, 2236 Warm Springs Road, Columbus, GA


First Baptist Church on the Square, 207 West Haralson Street, LaGrange, GA

[Easy Mac]

Prices ranged from 2.79 to 3.99 between my office and home. Lines were incredibly long. Gov. Purdue says that we will *not* run out, that it is an urban legend.
My father in law told us not to come up to greenville this weekend because he stopped at 3 different stations and they were all out of gas. He doesn't want us to get stuck up there. I got gas this morning. It was 2.63. Not too bad actually. Only $.20 higher than 3 weeks ago.

[QuikSand]

Oh, and that range is particularly strange because...

I live less than 5 miles from my office.
The first gas station I pass is around 2 miles from my office.
The last gas station I pass is around 1 mile from my home.
So, the prices ranged from 2.79 to 3.99 in less than a 2-mile span.

We are seeing crazy pricing here, too -- driving today I saw prices of 2.59 and 3.45 within ten miles of one another.

[Buccaneer]

I think there is a major pipeline running to the East Coast from the Gulf that is down for now. Here in the West, we get our supplies somewhere else and there was only a slight bump: from $2.65 to $2.79, and no lines in any of the stations I passed on the way home.

Regarding the news that I've been following all day (mostly wwltv), you guys are on top of things and good discussions. What is starting to piss me off a little is the hyperbole we've been hearing: "total" destruction, "completely" rebuild, and so on. I understand the nature of flooding in what it does to interior walls as well as the foundation, but in New Orleans, most of the buildings still stand - including everything except one brick building in the FQ. Foundations can and will be shored up, as well as decontaminated so it's not like a H-bomb went off and leveled a city.

The most important thing is the infrastructure and that will take time.

However, I do like Jim's analogy in comparing the aftermath to the race riots of the late 60s (esp. Detroit) and what they left the city as. I think we will see this to some extent in NO. We are already seeing some near-future relocations spread across Texas, et al (bless them) and it might turn to something more permanent, esp. after the insurance claims.

[Ben E Lou]

I must say that I'm pleasantly surprised that no news agencies that I know of have shown video of bodies in the water--although it sounds like there are a lot of them.

[Buccaneer]

But we really don't how many of them were corpses from the above-ground cemeteries. Nor do we know if they were clustered along a certain street or area.

[wbatl1]

I must say that I'm pleasantly surprised that no news agencies that I know of have shown video of bodies in the water--although it sounds like there are a lot of them.

Yeah, I heard Shep Smith talk about how they have rolls of tape they will not show on the air, because they are too horrific.

[JonInMiddleGA]

The state anti-gouging law does not prevent retailers from selling gas at higher rates but bars them from charging what the governor called "unreasonable or egregious" prices.

Heh.

Just got a call from my wife's best friend. She works for an airline & was airborne when my wife left her a little warning voicemail about the lack of gas she might run into on the way home & suggested she get it as she left the airport (she's one of those "oh shit, the gas light is on" types, might run out of gas on a normal day muchless today) .

1st place she tried to stop was on Mt.Zion Blvd -- $4.99 for regular ... and a parking lot full of cops. Two of the police were working with a customer to make sure everything was documented in order to charge & eventually nail the gouging station owner. The other cops were re-directing motorists who tried to pull into Mr. $4.99 to the Racetrack just over the hill, where the price was $2.99.

Ya gotta love it when you catch cops doing the whole "serve & protect" thing :D

[dawgfan]

Regarding the news that I've been following all day (mostly wwltv), you guys are on top of things and good discussions. What is starting to piss me off a little is the hyperbole we've been hearing: "total" destruction, "completely" rebuild, and so on. I understand the nature of flooding in what it does to interior walls as well as the foundation, but in New Orleans, most of the buildings still stand - including everything except one brick building in the FQ. Foundations can and will be shored up, as well as decontaminated so it's not like a H-bomb went off and leveled a city.

It's not just structural integrity that's an issue in the aftermath of these buildings being soaked for weeks on end (though that's a major one in and of itself) - it's related issues like mold that prove extremely pervasive, and more importantly it's the spread of toxic chemicals all around the city which may well leave much of the soil at levels far higher than is normally allowed by the EPA. What to do then? Undertake a massive Superfund cleanup and the related expense and time to do so, or waive the rules and let the 'buyer beware' so to speak regarding health risks of living, working and visiting the area?

[Farrah Whitworth-Rahn]

Yeah, I heard Shep Smith talk about how they have rolls of tape they will not show on the air, because they are too horrific.
Which is a shame.

[Buccaneer]

It's not just structural integrity that's an issue in the aftermath of these buildings being soaked for weeks on end (though that's a major one in and of itself) - it's related issues like mold that prove extremely pervasive, and more importantly it's the spread of toxic chemicals all around the city which may well leave much of the soil at levels far higher than is normally allowed by the EPA. What to do then? Undertake a massive Superfund cleanup and the related expense and time to do so, or waive the rules and let the 'buyer beware' so to speak regarding health risks of living, working and visiting the area?
Which goes back to my earlier comment about "parts in billions". In my city and others as well, they condemn, confiscate and abandone property that had less contamination than what most structures in NO will face. If they apply the same rules, then much of NO will never, ever be inhabitable again. But I am guess that for the sake of economics, cultural considerations and logistics, they are going to have to compromise the rules - as you said.

My guess is that the region will focus on its resources and to maintain a working population to run those resources (oil, gas, refineries, sugar? etc.). The rest will 1) become an enclave centered around the FQ and 2) become a shell - East Bank particularly. I don't see core NO become a consumer-centric city in the near future, unless Congress authorize hundreds of billions.

[dawgfan]

Which goes back to my earlier comment about "parts in billions". In my city and others as well, they condemn, confiscate and abandone property that had less contamination than what most structures in NO will face. If they apply the same rules, then much of NO will never, ever be inhabitable again. But I am guess that for the sake of economics, cultural considerations and logistics, they are going to have to compromise the rules - as you said.

Here's the thing though - those rules weren't put in place by drawing a number out of a hat - you might have quibbles about the exact level that should be considered safe, but I can't imagine it will be possible to allow a level on orders of magnitude higher in terms of pollution, both in the water and the soil as well as existing structures. This is going to be a very expensive and probably long-term reconstruction.

My guess is that the region will focus on its resources and to maintain a working population to run those resources (oil, gas, refineries, sugar? etc.). The rest will 1) become an enclave centered around the FQ and 2) become a shell - East Bank particularly. I don't see core NO become a consumer-centric city in the near future, unless Congress authorize hundreds of billions.

This will be fascinating to watch - I can't think of any American city of this size that's basically faced a near-total reconstruction. Urban planners are going to go crazy figuring out how New Orleans will be rebuilt. I think you're right - I think essentials will be the first thing rebuilt and then the historic (and least damaged) areas, with the rest possibly left alone or the focus of a massive, very long cleanup process.

[JonInMiddleGA]

... unless Congress authorize hundreds of billions.

And if that starts to happen, I imagine you'll see some very serious grassroots opposition, especially if the geography of the area is made clear to the average Joe/Jane.

[CHEMICAL SOLDIER]

Did anyone see Anderson Cooper 360? It seems that they are finding bodies of whole families just about in every house in I think it was Biloxi.

As for the floating bodies: I think that those are pretty much ''FRESH'' ones. Correct me if Im wrong but I think the bodies tend to stay in the coffin in most cases and just float or sink in them, I could be wrong though.

Shepard Smith's coverage and commentaries are top notched. With alot of emotion and
sounds real genuine.
Also: Steve McNair's mom is reported ''missing.'' according to a local sports talk radioshow. Mc Nair was talking with his mom and she said something along the lines of ''The tiles in the roof are being tossed around ...'' and the line went dead.

[dawgfan]

And if that starts to happen, I imagine you'll see some very serious grassroots opposition, especially if the geography of the area is made clear to the average Joe/Jane.

No doubt. I don't think there's any doubt, based on the existing industry in the area as well as the history that some parts of New Orleans will be rebuilt. But the extent of that rebuild (and the amount the federal government pays for) I think is going to be subject to serious questioning due to the likely cost of doing so.

That said, I've already seen some economists talking about how this should work out to be a boost to the economy, so I suspect much of the argument for rebuilding New Orleans will be along those lines.

[Eaglesfan27]

The (very) good news: My parents are safely out of the city now. They had no trouble driving out of the city from Children's Hospital earlier today.

The bad news: Our house was a quarter block from the 17th St. canal, and I have seen pictures of the neighborhood several times on the WWL-TV feed. There is at least 10 ft of water in the street, and thus anywhere from 6-8 feet of water in the house.
Well I'm glad to hear your parents are safe :)

[ISiddiqui]

Heh.

Just got a call from my wife's best friend. She works for an airline & was airborne when my wife left her a little warning voicemail about the lack of gas she might run into on the way home & suggested she get it as she left the airport (she's one of those "oh shit, the gas light is on" types, might run out of gas on a normal day muchless today) .

1st place she tried to stop was on Mt.Zion Blvd -- $4.99 for regular ... and a parking lot full of cops. Two of the police were working with a customer to make sure everything was documented in order to charge & eventually nail the gouging station owner. The other cops were re-directing motorists who tried to pull into Mr. $4.99 to the Racetrack just over the hill, where the price was $2.99.

Ya gotta love it when you catch cops doing the whole "serve & protect" thing :D
Very nice :D. I hope the guy gets a very hefty fine!

[Buccaneer]

Interesting. The Mayor just ordered 1,500 police to leave their search and rescue mission and take care of the looters.

I think there are going to be books written - in hindsight of course - of all of the crises and decisions being made this week.

[CHEMICAL SOLDIER]

Interesting. The Mayor just ordered 1,500 police to leave their search and rescue mission and take care of the looters.

I think there are going to be books written - in hindsight of course - of all of the crises and decisions being made this week.
Not to mention the interest in sociology and the chaos theory thats gonna abound the next few months.

[dawgfan]

I think there are going to be books written - in hindsight of course - of all of the crises and decisions being made this week.

There will be at least three kinds of books - the ones focusing strictly on this event and the aftermath, the academic ones looking at this as a case study in a lot of areas such as sociology, and those that look at how New Orleans got to this point. There's been a lot of talk already about the role the declining wetlands in the delta have played in exacerbating this tragedy.

[Eaglesfan27]

Checking the website, it says that LSU School of Medicine will resume classes and operations within the next 3 weeks in Baton Rouge. Decisions made from the meeting of Department heads tomorrow will be posted in the next 24-48 hours on the emergency website. Tomorrow, I'll intensify my search for a furnished apartment(s) for our crew (5 people and 4 pets counting Mrs. Eaglesfan and myself) in the Baton Rouge area via the internet and phone.

It doesn't look like we'll try to drive up to NJ.

[Farrah Whitworth-Rahn]

I think there are going to be books written - in hindsight of course - of all of the crises and decisions being made this week.
After all the lawsuits are settled.

[JonInMiddleGA]

O'Reilly Factor just did something that really made me uncomfortable ... Bill was talking with three different people who had been rescued, or as it turned out, two rescued ppl & a 77 y/o woman that is still trapped in her home along with her 98 y/o mother.

O'Reilly had her give out her specific street address on national TV, basically promising to get her out of there one way or another. While I realize the number of predators with access to the Factor is probably pretty limited, I just really got a bad feeling giving out that address did as much to put a bullseye on her forehead as it did to get her rescued.

I'll give him credit for very good intentions (and a healthy dose of ego), but a D- for his judgement on not having her give the info to producers off-air instead of on-air.

[Buccaneer]

O'Reilly Factor just did something that really made me uncomfortable ... Bill was talking with three different people who had been rescued, or as it turned out, two rescued ppl & a 77 y/o woman that is still trapped in her home along with her 98 y/o mother.

O'Reilly had her give out her specific street address on national TV, basically promising to get her out of there one way or another. While I realize the number of predators with access to the Factor is probably pretty limited, I just really got a bad feeling giving out that address did as much to put a bullseye on her forehead as it did to get her rescued.

I'll give him credit for very good intentions (and a healthy dose of ego), but a D- for his judgement on not having her give the info to producers off-air instead of on-air.
Except in many places, the house addresses are underwater (or damaged) and going have to go on landmarks instead.

[Eaglesfan27]

Nagin has finally declared martial law. Perhaps, this is old news. However, it is listed as breaking news on wwltv and is the first I've heard of it. It also mentioned that Nagin is furious with the looters and is changing the 1500 police officer's focus to stopping those looters via any means necessary.

I hope other agencies are going to be rescuing people, but I'm glad to see something being done to stop those who are looting non-necessity items.

[Buccaneer]

After all the lawsuits are settled.
...and a recall effort against the Mayor.

[JonInMiddleGA]

I hope other agencies are going to be rescuing people, but I'm glad to see something being done to stop those who are looting non-necessity items.

From what I understand, the feds,volunteers & the military are in the process of taking on the S&R roles in order to free up both police & national guard troops for getting the looting under control. That need appears to be growing pretty critical:

http://apnews.myway.com//article/20050901/D8CB55082.html
Managers at a nursing home were prepared to cope with the power outages and had enough food for days, but then the looting began. The home's bus driver was forced to surrender the vehicle to carjackers.

Bands of people drove by the nursing home, shouting to residents, "Get out!" Eighty residents, most of them in wheelchairs, were being evacuated to other nursing homes in the state.

"We had enough food for 10 days," said Peggy Hoffman, the home's executive director. "Now we'll have to equip our department heads with guns and teach them how to shoot."

I also believe, although it isn't being talked about in much more than hints right now, that there's a growing belief that the search & rescue phase is starting to transition into body recovery sooner rather than later.

[Eaglesfan27]

The following link shows satellite imagery from around noon today, and I'm quite happy to say that my MIL and my place are two of the few dry areas in the town. If the looters can just be kept away, we might be in good shape..

However, my grandfather (wife's GF) has called the fire department and they say his house is almost under water in Kenner :( (which it looks like on the satellite.)


Edit: Forgot the link:
http://www.wwltv.com/perl/common/video/wmPlayer.pl?title=www.khou.com/flooding_083105.wmv

[Farrah Whitworth-Rahn]

Ok I have to say this - the Governor of LA really irritates me. She needs to suck it up, and get her emotions in check. It really drives me nuts when female politicos act like a bunch of blubbering women.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Although I'm sure Sen.Landrieu (D-LA) will manage to tick me off royally at some time in the future, I thought she did a pretty good job on Larry King Live just now.

She basically said that everybody - Congressmen, Senators, the President, the Feds, the state government, the local sheriffs, the mayor & staff, basically Everybody - is doing every thing they can as fast as they can.

She mentioned that the military was coming, adding a "hurry" to the end of it, but I really didn't get the feeling even that was a slam about their timeline, just an honest plea for the help they can bring. She also mentioned that her brother, the Lt. Governor (I don't think I realized they were related) had spent the past two days recovering bodies & helping with rescues, came across not as a "oh what a great guy my brother" but more like "My God, the Lt.Governor of a state is out there in a rowboat, if we're doing that don't you think we're doing everything humanly possible?"

She appeared to me to be taking the high road tonight, didn't try to score any political points nor make any political statements. She also scored high for getting visibly ticked off at Larry in an earlier segment.

I guess it just stood out to me because I'd just finished reading a piece on how strategists are already working on how to use Katrina against the President shortly & her performance was a pretty stark contrast vs what I'd read just minutes earlier. Props to her.

[ScottVib]

Reading one of the blogs at nola.com and you see more and more reports from hospitals that armed looters are breaking in and taking over the hospitals.

Sad. :(

[miami_fan]

Ok I have to say this - the Governor of LA really irritates me. She needs to suck it up, and get her emotions in check. It really drives me nuts when female politicos act like a bunch of blubbering women.

I can't blame the female politicos. I have seen and heard more men crying over this on radio, TV, and on the phone (military friends who are have been called up) than any other event outside of 9/11

[Masked]

Reading one of the blogs at nola.com and you see more and more reports from hospitals that armed looters are breaking in and taking over the hospitals.

Sad. :(
At the very least, the initial report of looters breaking in to Children's Hospital were completely false. The staff at the hospital apparently had to exert a lot of effort debunking that rumor today.

Hopefully, the other reports are also false; although, I fear conditions in the city tonight are going to be very bad.

[Galaxy]

This mean that a "Shoot to Kill" order is out on the looters then?

[Galaxy]

Ok I have to say this - the Governor of LA really irritates me. She needs to suck it up, and get her emotions in check. It really drives me nuts when female politicos act like a bunch of blubbering women.

Haven't watch her. Is she crying alot, flip-flopping?

[Buccaneer]

Ok I have to say this - the Governor of LA really irritates me. She needs to suck it up, and get her emotions in check. It really drives me nuts when female politicos act like a bunch of blubbering women.
I believe in the end, people are going say they (the governor and mayor) were constantly a day late and a dollar short. For example, the mandatory evac orders should have gone out the day before and that martial (<--- look, I can spell that right - unlike some of the news media) law should have been declared yesterday. Of course there were political, legal and cultural ramifications that kept things from happening quicker. Even Dr Maestri is alluding to that.

[Buccaneer]

This mean that a "Shoot to Kill" order is out on the looters then?
Damned if you do, damned if you don't. I think the black civil liberty leaders will have the mayor crucified.

[Farrah Whitworth-Rahn]

Just saw on my local news here that two little boys, both 8 years old, saw the hurricane coverage on the news and wanted to help. They took their piggy banks down to the Salvation Army headquarters downtown and donated all their money. About $60 total.

Warm fuzzies.

[CamEdwards]

Damned if you do, damned if you don't. I think the black civil liberty leaders will have the mayor crucified.

it comes down to this: what's more important to you, your integrity or your reputation afterwards.

[Ksyrup]

Can we merge this with the "people suck" thread? Fucking looters destroying their own communities. I hope they each catch some hideous disease as a result of running around town slogging through debris, waste, and whatever other biohazards are out there. Would be quite deserving.

[Solecismic]

I'm hating the politicizing of this from the media. I just watched Aaron "Smacky" Brown's report on CNN, and he's just itching to blame everything on Bush*.

He was interviewing correspondents, and asking very leading questions about the speed in which Washington has provided aid. He was clearly upset when one answered that the Guard was on the scene very quickly (Bush had signed the National Disaster declarations in advance to make that easier).

So then he asked if the "military" part of the Guard was on the scene fast enough (something the governor would have had to request) then encouraged speculation that perhaps it didn't because everyone's in Iraq.

Just disgusting. I know every news outlet does this, and CNN is no exception. I know Brown is one of the worst. But to use all this suffering to make your case against Bush should be beneath the network. Not so, I guess.

I feel like making fun of Brown's stupid toupee right now.

* standard disclaimer - I have never voted for anyone named Bush, nor did I support W.'s candadacy in 2000 or 2004.

[Farrah Whitworth-Rahn]

Just saw on my local news here that two little boys, both 8 years old, saw the hurricane coverage on the news and wanted to help. They took their piggy banks down to the Salvation Army headquarters downtown and donated all their money. About $60 total.

Warm fuzzies.
Actually, it looks like this news channel (Phoenix Channel 3) is running a telethon for the Salvation Army throughout their broadcast. They have news anchors answering phones during the breaks. How cool is that?

Do feel a tad guilty now for ragging on journalists earlier this afternoon.

[Buccaneer]

Something else crossed my mind while wwltv again. Knowing how much donations to Red Cross (and Salv Army) will go directly to helping, do you think it might be more cost beneficial for the Federal Govt to give some of their millions to them as well? Seems to me it could do a lot of good very quickly.

[Farrah Whitworth-Rahn]

Something else crossed my mind while wwltv again. Knowing how much donations to Red Cross (and Salv Army) will go directly to helping, do you think it might be more cost beneficial for the Federal Govt to give some of their millions to them as well? Seems to me it could do a lot of good very quickly.
Wasn't there a controversy over how the Red Cross handled the 9/11 donations?

And as far as the Salvation Army goes - I can hear the ACLU lawyering up on that one now.

[HomerJSimpson]

The following link shows satellite imagery from around noon today, and I'm quite happy to say that my MIL and my place are two of the few dry areas in the town. If the looters can just be kept away, we might be in good shape..

However, my grandfather (wife's GF) has called the fire department and they say his house is almost under water in Kenner :( (which it looks like on the satellite.)


Edit: Forgot the link:
http://www.wwltv.com/perl/common/video/wmPlayer.pl?title=www.khou.com/flooding_083105.wmv


Really? I was just told tonight that Kenner is in good shape, considering. I think maybe a certain lady is telling her daughter fairy tales so that she'll let her go back home (she is afraid she is losing too much Real Estate business. What Real Estate business?).

[Buccaneer]

That's a good point (from wwltv) in that the news have been dominated by the outlawness but there are much more good going with tremendous humanitarian efforts being performed by many. Wonder why we don't see more of this? Oh wait....

[Dutch]

That's a good point (from wwltv) in that the news have been dominated by the outlawness but there are much more good going with tremendous humanitarian efforts being performed by many. Wonder why we don't see more of this? Oh wait....

The local news here has been giving the local efforts a lot of press (because everybody is tuned in around here). But as for the national coverage? Of course, you go with what butters the bread...

[Galaxy]

And Nancy Grace is covering the Natalie-Aruba case. Kinda interesting.

[clintl]

And Nancy Grace is covering the Natalie-Aruba case. Kinda interesting.

What else would you want her doing? She has a specialty: court proceedings.

[Tigercat]

From what I've heard and seen Kenner has water problems all over. Its hard to tell how deep exactly though. It could just be a foot of water everywhere, it could be more. But the word was everything from the lake to the interstate had a good amount of water.

The only video evidence I saw of Jefferson Parish was a quick shot of what looked like Williams Blvd near the Treasure Chest under water(which obviously would be no surprise) and the often shown shot of Clerview Mall and Vets with water. Both shots it was hard to tell how much water exactly.

[Eaglesfan27]

Really? I was just told tonight that Kenner is in good shape, considering. I think maybe a certain lady is telling her daughter fairy tales so that she'll let her go back home (she is afraid she is losing too much Real Estate business. What Real Estate business?).
My Grand Father (I love the guy and consider him my GF - he is really Mrs. Eaglesfan's GF - He is VERY colorful) is a retired fireman and has many friends that still serve. The information is very accurate. His home has between 8-10 feet of water in Kenner unfortunately :(

[Jesse_Ewiak]

That's a good point (from wwltv) in that the news have been dominated by the outlawness but there are much more good going with tremendous humanitarian efforts being performed by many. Wonder why we don't see more of this? Oh wait....

"It bleeds, it leads." In the end, people really don't care about the humanitarian mission, they want to see action, whether it's rescues or lootings. We're an ADD nation, and it needs to be exciting and dynamic to keep our attention for five seconds.

[Arles]

This is cool and I think more sports teams could help with this as well:

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/wire?section=nfl&id=2148336

Packers' team plane also carried supplies to South

GREEN BAY, Wis. -- The Green Bay Packers flew to Nashville on Wednesday for their final preseason game -- but only after loading the team airplane with generators and other emergency supplies to help victims of Hurricane Katrina.

Quarterback Brett Favre was among the Packers with relatives and friends in the Gulf Coast region that has been devastated by the hurricane.

Favre had the blessing of coach Mike Sherman to drive a truck with supplies to Hattiesburg, Miss., where his wife and children were at home, after the team got to Nashville. But with many of the roads in Mississippi impassable and the airports closed, Favre reconsidered.

For now, "what I've done is try to get the word out," he said.

Favre, with the help of equipment manager Red Batty, rounded up supplies, including generators, food and water, that were loaded onto the chartered plane.

"When we get to Nashville, there's going to be a guy who drives (the supplies) to Hattiesburg," Favre said after the team has a workout in the Don Hutson Center. "From there, hopefully, we can disperse this even further south."

"To think that we're going to try to play football and enjoy it, it's difficult.

Favre's childhood home in the Gulf Coast town of Kiln, Miss., was destroyed by the storm.

Wide receiver Javon Walker also was among the players profoundly affected by the disaster.

He said he received a phone call Wednesday morning from his mother. She informed him that his grandparents and two uncles can't be found in Moss Point, Miss., which is just outside Biloxi.

Walker's parents drove from their home in Texas to search for Lucille and Paul Goldsmith, both of whom are in their 80s, and their sons, Paul and Earl Goldsmith.

"Obviously, dealing with what they're going through, it puts a lot of things in perspective for me, as far as family and friends," Walker said. "I just want them to be safe because sometimes, you take for granted what our grandparents do for us.

"I'm just going to pray for them and hope that everything is OK."

With lines of communication wiped out, Packers linebacker Ray Thompson isn't sure how many of his family members are holding up.

Thompson's mother, grandmother and a number of aunts and cousins reside in various parts of battered New Orleans.

"I just can't watch the news. Everything is just bad news," Thompson said.

[Tigercat]

Where in Kenner is that EF? All my Aunts and Uncles and my Grandmother live in one little area of Kenner. They are on the West Esplanade side of Vintage(right off of Power), so I am hoping they didn't get 10 feet of water, but nothing short of no water in their homes would surpise me now.

[Eaglesfan27]

Where in Kenner is that EF? All my Aunts and Uncles and my Grandmother live in one little area of Kenner. They are on the West Esplanade side of Vintage(right off of Power), so I am hoping they didn't get 10 feet of water, but nothing short of no water in their homes would surpise me now.

Mrs. Eaglesfan is already asleep, so I can't tell you exactly where they are at. However, I think they are west of Loyola. I know they are a little west and north of the Esplanade Mall. However, Mrs. Eaglesfan usually drives and I think she takes exit 221 (Loyola I believe) and we go a bit north and west from there.

[Eaglesfan27]

Dola - Actually it is a fair distance north of I-10 (at least 2 miles) and is close to the lake. I know we pass some very nice houses on the right that I was considering as possible buys. We also were looking at some houses a bit further north of their place that were very close to the lake.

[Tigercat]

Ack yea, I am not too surprised that that area would be hit hard, unfortunately. As if sinking houses in Kenner weren't bad enough. I wonder what impact, if any, standing water for a long period of time will have on houses that are still sinking in that area? It can't be good.

[dawgfan]

I'm a bit surprised given the inevitable stories with a sports angle that I haven't seen any articles talking about the Manning family. I'm assuming Archie and his wife got out of town ahead of the hurricane, and maybe Peyton and Eli don't want to make a big deal out of their connection to New Orleans at the moment.

[Doug5984]

I'm a bit surprised given the inevitable stories with a sports angle that I haven't seen any articles talking about the Manning family. I'm assuming Archie and his wife got out of town ahead of the hurricane, and maybe Peyton and Eli don't want to make a big deal out of their connection to New Orleans at the moment.

I did see they interviewed Peyton on espn after the hurricane, but there are so many players from the New Orleans / South Mississippi area it would be hard to talk to them all...

[Masked]

These links may have already been posted, but they are some of the best images I have seen of the city.

Before: http://www.digitalglobe.com/images/katrina/new_orleans_msi_march9_2004_dg.jpg

After: http://www.digitalglobe.com/images/katrina/new_orleans_msi_aug31_2005_dg.jpg

The 17th St canal is on the left edge. You can see the breech about 1/6 from the top.

The older areas of the city are along the river and are dry. The French Quarter is in the lower right corner right at the big bend in the river.

The 9th ward is east of the image and is severely flooded, and uptown is south of the image and did not flood. The small bit of land in the very bottom right is the west bank which did not flood.

Kenner is significantly west of this image.

[Galaxy]

What else would you want her doing? She has a specialty: court proceedings.

You don't think she could talk about other things? She does also have a show on Court TV.

[Masked]

dola

On the left side near the center of the image you see a what appear to be many very small buildings. These are a couple of large cementaries with the above ground crypts.

Let me know if you would like any other landmarks pointed out.

[CHEMICAL SOLDIER]

Breaking News now: AOne of the buses that got to Houston WASN'T from the superdome!
As per CNN. Seems that it was commandeered from someplace. This should have been coordinated beforehand.

[CHEMICAL SOLDIER]

Dola: It seems that stories from riders didnt gel with actual things that took place in the dome. Seems that there's no security and coordination. Youd think that there wuld be escorts on these things and a running password and checkpoiint checks. Damn what a mess.

[sterlingice]

Breaking News now: AOne of the buses that got to Houston WASN'T from the superdome!
As per CNN. Seems that it was commandeered from someplace. This should have been coordinated beforehand.
While true, in a perfect world, either everyone can do all the paperwork, dot all the i's and cross all the t's, and make sure everything is perfectly coordinated (mind you, on something of this scale, we're talking about there still being a 5% chance of a screw up due to the number of people involved) and they could head out tomorrow or Friday or do it as fast as possible and hope to do the best they can.

SI

[CHEMICAL SOLDIER]

While true, in a perfect world, either everyone can do all the paperwork, dot all the i's and cross all the t's, and make sure everything is perfectly coordinated (mind you, on something of this scale, we're talking about there still being a 5% chance of a screw up due to the number of people involved) and they could head out tomorrow or Friday or do it as fast as possible and hope to do the best they can.

SI
It's not about paper work it's about OPSEC (Operational Security) and following SOP's for Convoy ops and such. Just gets me irritated how those ''infiltrators'' breached the system and got into a ''secure'' area. Operations this big you'd think there would be verification of manifests and id cards and such.

[Peregrine]

I don't know why the media acts so surprised that others (not in the Superdome) would be trying to evacuate once they saw all the announcements, I know if I had a bus I'd be loading it with people to try to evacuate the place.

[Farrah Whitworth-Rahn]

FNC (Phil Keating live report) is reporting there were gunshots in the Superdome just now.

[HomerJSimpson]

FNC (Phil Keating live report) is reporting there were gunshots in the Superdome just now.


CNN is reporting shot fired at a helicopter involved at the Superdome.

[Farrah Whitworth-Rahn]

CNN is reporting shot fired at a helicopter involved at the Superdome.
Why on earth would someone shoot at a helicopter right now?

[HomerJSimpson]

Why on earth would someone shoot at a helicopter right now?


I have no idea. People are crazy?

[Ben E Lou]

Is wwltv down for everyone right now?

[JonInMiddleGA]

Why on earth would someone shoot at a helicopter right now?

Those aren't people shooting at a helicopter ... those are animals who happen to walk on two legs.

[JonInMiddleGA]

CNN is reporting shot fired at a helicopter involved at the Superdome.

I spent much of yesterday thinking this but I don't believe I ever said it here.
NOW I'm ready to say it: we've got the wrong kind of helicopters in the air over New Orleans. Time to move the S&R choppers out & the gunships in.

[HomerJSimpson]

Who is this idiot on CNN, and who exactly pissed in his cheerios? When he he was interviewing Haley Barbor awhile ago, he kept pushing him and pushing him to say the Feds aren't doing enuogh to the point Barber was like "look, I don't have time to argue. I'm just trying to give you an update on the situation." Then he interviewed a woman at the Astrodome, and was basically throwing gasoline on her anger to get her to break down.