Who is the fourth best quarterback in the NFL?

[digamma]

(Stolen from Colin Cowherd this morning.)

If you take as a given that Brady, Manning and McNabb are the three best quarterbacks in the league (in some order), who is number four?

[rkmsuf]

Culpepper


creeping up the list
Carson Palmer

[Bea-Arthurs Hip]

Dante


crapping in his pants
Joey Harrington

[rkmsuf]

I'd like to meet the Brian Griese voters.

[gottimd]

I'd like to meet the Brian Griese voters.
I voted for him just so I could meet you.

[colt45]

vick - but in another few weeks, i'll be changing my vote to testaverde

[cthomer5000]

I'm imaging "If I could pick a QB from here to be my starter" and I'm debating between Vick, Palmer, and Leftwich.

[wade moore]

I think if you're talking about ability as a QB right now, I have to go Trent Green. He has shown the most consistent performance out of all of these guys over the last few years.

Now if you're talking about "upside" and who you would "build a team around" my answer might be different.

[st.cronin]

The Daunte voters have clearly never seen the man play.

[albionmoonlight]

Before this season, I would have said Culpepper without hesitation. Now, the jury is still out. Lighting up the Saints' defense does not mean anything. Let's see what he does with the rest of the season.

Leaving Culpepper aside, I think I would go with Trent Green, but Byron Leftwich sure is tempting.

[digamma]

vick - but in another few weeks, i'll be changing my vote to testaverde
In the end, I'm not sure if I can get past Vick's winning percentage as a starter.

But, Vinny is delicious.

[Bea-Arthurs Hip]

"The Daunte voters have clearly never seen the man play."

No but I have listened to Viking games on my Ham Radio. Does that count?

[Raiders Army]

McFagg isn't one of the top three, I'm sorry.

Speaking of him, did you hear that he got a McDonald's endorsement deal? They're going to call his sandwich the McFagg and it'll have a hot dog crammed in a bun with chocolate syrup on one end of it.

[gottimd]

McFagg isn't one of the top three, I'm sorry.

Speaking of him, did you hear that he got a McDonald's endorsement deal? They're going to call his sandwich the McFagg and it'll have a hot dog crammed in a bun with chocolate syrup on one end of it.
Now thats Faggoty.

[scooper]

Yes, this is a homer vote, but if we are basing it on this season, I'd have to go with Carson Palmer. He's gone head to head with Culpepper. You saw how that turned out.

[Kodos]

Gotta go with the IU alum. Even though he sucked at IU. Trent Green.

[st.cronin]

I voted for Palmer, but I would also go with Green, Brees, Hasselbeck, Leftwich, and Bulger over Culpepper. He's just not that good, folks. I've been watching him for years; he drops the ball, makes poor decisions, isn't very accurate, is easily confused by a good defense... he will never, ever play in a Super Bowl, I promise you.

[wade moore]

McFagg isn't one of the top three, I'm sorry.

Speaking of him, did you hear that he got a McDonald's endorsement deal? They're going to call his sandwich the McFagg and it'll have a hot dog crammed in a bun with chocolate syrup on one end of it.
I'm not very easily offended, but this offended me.


Just thought i'd share.

[Raiders Army]

My apologies.

[rkmsuf]

Leftwich? Not getting that one. Has almost zero athletic ablility and an endless windup in his delivery.

Gutsy, sure but outside of a huge body and pain tolerance, I don't see it.

[pennywisesb]

It seems as though Kerry Collins was left off the list :D

I'm gonna have to go Southern Cal alumni Carson Palmer at this point. We'll see if he continues his high performance level for the rest of the year though.

[MIJB#19]

Where's Trent Dilfer?

[Swaggs]

McNair and Big Ben are better than a lot of these guys, too.

[Johnny93g]

Matt Leinart.........



oops, thats for next season

[digamma]

McNair and Big Ben are better than a lot of these guys, too.
I think that's fair. I don't think I'd rank either of them fourth, but the probably deserve to be on the list.

[General Mike]

McNair and Big Ben are better than a lot of these guys, too.

A healthy McNair is in the top 3, but I doubt his ability to stay healthy.

[Bearcat729]

I've been VERY impressed with how Palmer has looked this season. So he got my vote

[QuikSand]

How long ago was it that there was a sizable contingent arguing that Culpepper belonged in the conversation for the #1 QB spot, right alongside Manning (and nobody else)? This was what - July of this year? Am I dreaming that this was an actual FOFC debate, with two reasonably robust sides (i.e. a fairly sizable contigent arguing they'd take Culpepper ahead of Manning or anyone else)?

And now Culpepper can hardly stand out when put in a field of ten for the #4 ranking in the exact same regard? But he is by "consensus" not in the top three?

What the hell happened? Is this all about having two lousy games to open this season?

[gottimd]

How long ago was it that there was a sizable contingent arguing that Culpepper belonged in the conversation for the #1 QB spot, right alongside Manning (and nobody else)? This was what - July of this year? Am I dreaming that this was an actual FOFC debate, with two reasonably robust sides (i.e. a fairly sizable contigent arguing they'd take Culpepper ahead of Manning or anyone else)?

And now Culpepper can hardly stand out when put in a field of ten for the #4 ranking in the exact same regard? But he is by "consensus" not in the top three?

What the hell happened? Is this all about having two lousy games to open this season?
http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~fof/forums/showthread.php?t=39031&highlight=Culpepper

[wade moore]

How long ago was it that there was a sizable contingent arguing that Culpepper belonged in the conversation for the #1 QB spot, right alongside Manning (and nobody else)? This was what - July of this year? Am I dreaming that this was an actual FOFC debate, with two reasonably robust sides (i.e. a fairly sizable contigent arguing they'd take Culpepper ahead of Manning or anyone else)?

And now Culpepper can hardly stand out when put in a field of ten for the #4 ranking in the exact same regard? But he is by "consensus" not in the top three?

What the hell happened? Is this all about having two lousy games to open this season?
I think it's about a perception that those two bad games are a sign of things to come without Randy Moss.

For what it's worth, I was on the Manning side of the fence in the previous argument.. but I wonder if those who changed all of a sudden are against Culpepper realize that he had good games without Moss last year....

[QuikSand]

Thanks, gottimd - looks like it was May, not July. Worlds apart.

[st.cronin]

How long ago was it that there was a sizable contingent arguing that Culpepper belonged in the conversation for the #1 QB spot, right alongside Manning (and nobody else)? This was what - July of this year? Am I dreaming that this was an actual FOFC debate, with two reasonably robust sides (i.e. a fairly sizable contigent arguing they'd take Culpepper ahead of Manning or anyone else)?

And now Culpepper can hardly stand out when put in a field of ten for the #4 ranking in the exact same regard? But he is by "consensus" not in the top three?

What the hell happened? Is this all about having two lousy games to open this season?

He's a very good athlete who has put up solid stats. He's a combination of very good strengths and very obvious, glaring weaknesses. In the dome, with the crowd and the right recievers, he looks very good. But he is constantly fumbling the ball, is very easily confused by a good defense, and makes really stupid decisions with frightening frequency. I don't think we will last more than 2 or 3 more years as a starter and I doubt he will ever play in a super bowl.

[QuikSand]

You don't need to sell me on Daunte's shortcomings... I just wonder at how quickly the "consensus" has seemingly changed. Just a few months ago (even after the last Superbowl) the insertion of Brady into the conversation was a novelty idea - a way to get in a "dig" that maybe intangibes count more than stats. Then, the battle of Peyton v. Daunte raged on, with something like a 70/30 split for Peyton as #1, but a sizable number of people arguing that Daunte deserved either the top spot, or perhaps a dead heat for it... but defending mightily the notion that he was the guy to be on the other side of that poll.

Now, a few months but only three real games later, Culpepper is suddenly relegated to this obvious second-tier status? Where are all these backers who, a very short time ago, were so strenuously arguing that Culpepper was #1a on this list, at the very least?

I for one, was arguing back then that a fairer contest would be Manning vs. "anyone else," and that Culpepper didn't merit such special consideration.

[QuikSand]

...I doubt he will ever play in a super bowl.

And I thought we had your personal guarantee on this.

[Ben E Lou]

McFagg isn't one of the top three, I'm sorry.

Speaking of him, did you hear that he got a McDonald's endorsement deal? They're going to call his sandwich the McFagg and it'll have a hot dog crammed in a bun with chocolate syrup on one end of it.To the person who CONTINUES to report every time someone calls him this:

It is said that one definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result. Man, this is getting annoying.

[rkmsuf]

Who reports posts?

[digamma]

You don't need to sell me on Daunte's shortcomings... I just wonder at how quickly the "consensus" has seemingly changed. Just a few months ago (even after the last Superbowl) the insertion of Brady into the conversation was a novelty idea - a way to get in a "dig" that maybe intangibes count more than stats. Then, the battle of Peyton v. Daunte raged on, with something like a 70/30 split for Peyton as #1, but a sizable number of people arguing that Daunte deserved either the top spot, or perhaps a dead heat for it... but defending mightily the notion that he was the guy to be on the other side of that poll.

Now, a few months but only three real games later, Culpepper is suddenly relegated to this obvious second-tier status? Where are all these backers who, a very short time ago, were so strenuously arguing that Culpepper was #1a on this list, at the very least?

I for one, was arguing back then that a fairer contest would be Manning vs. "anyone else," and that Culpepper didn't merit such special consideration.
The answer probably lies somewhere in albion's thread yesterday about making fantasy football more real. This season, Daunte isn't just frustrating Viking fans, he's frustrating fantasy owners.

But, I think a 24-27 record over the last three-plus seasons is enough to convince me he might not belong in the top three.

[gottimd]

Who reports posts?A post reporter.

[rkmsuf]

A ninny.

agreed

[st.cronin]

And I thought we had your personal guarantee on this.

heh

hyperbole, man, don't you get it????

I am not late to this party; I have thought Daunte was middle of the pack at best for 2 years now.

[gottimd]

Hahahaha, I called someone a ninny.

[rexallllsc]

The Daunte voters have clearly never seen the man play.

No kidding. The guy is not that good.

I also think the list goes Brady, Manning, then everyone else. Not sold on McNabb. Seems to be lights out one game, and bad the next. I'm big on Drew Brees.

[Ben E Lou]

Who reports posts?Lots of people, actually. I've never kept records, but I'd imagine that I only act on around 25-40% of the posts that get reported. You'd be surprised at how sensitive or vindictive (take your pick) some people around here can be.

[rkmsuf]

Lots of people, actually. I've never kept records, but I'd imagine that I only act on around 25-40% of the posts that get reported. You'd be surprised at how sensitive or vindictive (take your pick) some people around here can be.

ninnys

SkyDog, he looked at me funny and called me a baboon. Waaaaaaaaaaa.

[Ben E Lou]

ninnys

SkyDog, he looked at me funny and called me a baboon. Waaaaaaaaaaa.You'd be surprised, I'm sure.

Actually, upon further thought, I'd imagine that in the last 3-4 weeks, that 25-40% number is more like 5-20%. We have one guy in particular who keeps reporting really petty stuff. He's getting pretty close to getting publicly called out on it, actually.

[gottimd]

Someone is gonna be publicly called a ninny?

[rkmsuf]

A good public flogging is always a crowd pleaser.

I've trademarked Ninny(tm) as a petty post reporter.

[QuikSand]

*looks at rkmsuf funny*

[Desnudo]

Someone is gonna be publicly called a ninny?

I think that their nickname should be changed to Ninny.

[Kodos]

He's getting pretty close to getting publicly called out on it, actually.

Look, SkyDog -- I said I was sorry!
























:p

[wade moore]

You'd be surprised, I'm sure.

Actually, upon further thought, I'd imagine that in the last 3-4 weeks, that 25-40% number is more like 5-20%. We have one guy in particular who keeps reporting really petty stuff. He's getting pretty close to getting publicly called out on it, actually.
Not that anyone cares....

But my post in the thread is all I did... I felt it was in poor taste to say, but within his 'rights' on this board to say it.... I was practicing the "self-policing" of the board, rather than using the moderator in an instance like this...

[Ryche]

I picked Daunte, but the game this weekend will tell a lot about just how good he is. I think weeks 1 and 2 were flukes. (Ok, I'm praying they were).

[Ben E Lou]

Not that anyone cares....

But my post in the thread is all I did... I felt it was in poor taste to say, but within his 'rights' on this board to say it.... I was practicing the "self-policing" of the board, rather than using the moderator in an instance like this...Good point. Sorry wade, I didn't mean in any way to cast you in suspicion. Let me verify that it was not wade who reported this.

[John Galt]

Good point. Sorry wade, I didn't mean in any way to cast you in suspicion. Let me verify that it was not wade who reported this.

Although I was offended by the post (not surprisingly), I didn't report it. And I don't report posts as a general rule (only 1 report ever) despite some belief to the contrary.

[Ben E Lou]

(only 1 report ever)I don't pay all that close of attention to WHO reports posts normally, unless I say, "Hmmm, hasn't he reported a lot lately?" and start noticing it, as in the two cases I've mentioned in this thread. You've got me quite curious with this post. Of all the stuff here at FOFC, all the heated threads you've been in, there's been one and only one post that you saw the need to report, which leaves me to wonder what was the ONE thing you reported, and what did I do about it? PM if you'd prefer.

[John Galt]

I don't pay all that close of attention to WHO reports posts normally, unless I say, "Hmmm, hasn't he reported a lot lately?" and start noticing it, as in the two cases I've mentioned in this thread. You've got me quite curious with this post. Of all the stuff here at FOFC, all the heated threads you've been in, there's been one and only one post that you saw the need to report, which leaves me to wonder what was the ONE thing you reported, and what did I do about it? PM if you'd prefer.

The one I reported was pretty unique. A regular poster (I can't remember who) created a dummy account (I can't remember that either) to attack me and wouldn't admit to who they really were. Frankly, anyone can say anything about me and I won't report it as long as they are honest about their identity.

[MizzouRah]

I would still love to have Favre on my team.

[sabotai]

I voted for Vick, but if Palmer keeps playing the way he has, I'm sure he'll be #4 for me by midseason.

[vtbub]

I voted for Vick, but if Palmer keeps playing the way he has, I'm sure he'll be #4 for me by midseason.

*nods in agreement*

[RailsFS]

I still think it's Daunte. He's had quite a lot of bad breaks so far. Losing the most important part of his line (Birk). No rushing game (thank you Whizzinator). Playing with inexperienced/just plain bad receivers. I think if this poll would have been conducted before the season started, he would easily be the top guy in this list, if not mentioned in the Top 3 (sorry, McNabb). I know the NFL is a "what have you done for me lately" league, but it's amazing that most fans have the same stance.

By the way, this time next year, Palmer gets mention in the Top 3 discussion.

[condors]

I took the question as if i could have any of the above on my team i would want Palmer. The guy keeps improving and i think he has all of the tools although i also like Leftwhich but he isn't exactly mobile so i went with Palmer as the guy i want being my guy. If it was just one game i would go with Favre seen him pull something out of his butt too many time. (don't have any pics though)

[Raiders Army]

Daunte cuz he has a cool name, like Raiders Army.

[Super Ugly]

No Chad Pennington?

I voted Culpepper, but then I remembered McNair.

I think Leftwich will be up there in the next couple of years.

[Daimyo]

While I wouldn't put him in the top 10 list of "best passers" or feel very comfortable with him on my favorite team (too much risk/reward, too injury prone, etc) I think Vick is the best quarterback on the list of choices right now. I can forsee possibly bumping up Palmer and maybe Brees after this season though. I'm also think Leftwich has potential. Never been a big fan of Fraudpepper....

Two, maybe one, year(s) back it would have been McNair for sure... he should at least be on the list.

[Swaggs]

For what it is worth (and to my pain), I voted for Vick. I wanted to vote for Favre, who I feel is one of the best of all time, but it seems like he can no longer carry a team.

One thought to consider: take Manning out of Indy and sub another NFL QB in his place, who does the best? I think McNair does the most with the least amount of support.

[bhlloy]

I went for Culpepper (with Vick a close second). Can't discount a couple of seasons of production for a couple of bad games. Especially after the numbers he put up this week.

Who would I want on my team right now to build around - Carson Palmer. That's partly a USC homer pick, but he's the hot hand and if he keeps this up for a whole season he's clearly there with Culpepper and Vick.

[-Mojo Jojo-]

I voted for Vick, but if Palmer keeps playing the way he has, I'm sure he'll be #4 for me by midseason.

Oh, trust me, he keeps getting better. He led my eNFL Bengals to a Super Bowl title in 2009 (and he was the league MVP). Just wait and see.




;)

[B & B]

and the eNFL browns have Pennington who just blew his arm up.

Sign of things to come... I hope not.

BTW - I voted for the future HOF QB Favre. His supporting cast is so weak right now, but all things even, hes the right choice.

[Samdari]

Palmer.

And Vick doesn't even merit consideration.

I've never thought Culpepper was a particularly good QB. He had a lot of success chucking balls up to Moss that would be incomplete or INTs to any other player.

Right now I think Favre is the 4th best QB - in his divison. Great career, I loved to watch him throw the ball at the height of his ability/confidence. He's been done for a couple years now, he just does not know it yet.

[Izulde]

Favre doesn't have shit for receivers. But he's still a damn good QB and has great leadership ability. Basically the end of his career is going down a lot like Marino's did, where his targets sucked.

And Walker is the most overrated receiver in the NFL, the second most overrated player.

So I'd go with Favre for now, Brees for the future... though I did have to debate for a bit between Brees and Favre.

[Butter]

How many times a game does Favre just throw it up for grabs? 4? 5? That's not greatness. That's a wing and a prayer.

He WAS great. But now he just looks old and frustrated.

I voted for "other", as I can't believe David Klingler was not listed. He's coming back someday.

[Samdari]

Favre doesn't have shit for receivers. But he's still a damn good QB and has great leadership ability. Basically the end of his career is going down a lot like Marino's did, where his targets sucked.

His current corps of WR (before Walker was hurt) is generally considered the best group he has had in his career. He is NOT still a damn good QB. Stop looking through your Brett Favre of mid-late 90's glasses and you will see that.

[Blackadar]

I'm reading this as you can take 1 QB to play this season.

Farve, without a doubt.

The guy has thrown for 7,400 yards and 62 tds the last two years with a rating of about 91.4. Samdari and Butter need to look at the stats. I'd say a QB that averages 3,700 yards per season and 31tds with a 91.4 rating is a "damn good QB".

[Butter]

Have you seen Favre play this year? He looks below mediocre.

He is not the 4th best QB in the league. He is not great any more. We could argue the point all day, but I would take several of the QB's on that list above Favre RIGHT NOW. 5 years ago, probably not. But now, definitely.

[Blackadar]

Have you seen Favre play this year? He looks below mediocre.

He is not the 4th best QB in the league. He is not great any more. We could argue the point all day, but I would take several of the QB's on that list above Favre RIGHT NOW. 5 years ago, probably not. But now, definitely.

5 years ago? Try last year. And the year before. He's thrown for 15,000 yards and 121tds the last 4 years (with ratings of 94.1, 85.6, 90.4 and 92.4). Sounds like he's been better than good during that span. Hell, that's better than most QBs CAREERS.

Does he look good this year? Not particularly - he's thrown waaay too many picks. But it's only 3 games into the season. And if I had to pick 1 QB not named Manning or Brady to win 1 game for my team this year, I'd pick Farve. And I bet we'd win.

[Samdari]

Does he look good this year? Not particularly - he's thrown waaay too many picks. But it's only 3 games into the season. And if I had to pick 1 QB not named Manning or Brady to win 1 game for my team this year, I'd pick Farve. And I bet we'd win.

Really? Favre has not been able to beat mediocre to bad defenses. He'd throw 15 picks against the Patriots.

And you are using only stats to talk about how good Favre was the past two seasons. As has been mentioned in another thread this week, especially for QBs, stats don't tell the whole story. He has not looked anywhere near as good the past two seasons as he did in his prime, and did not look anywhere near as good as the 4th best QB the past two season - when he was putting up the stats you are so high on.

[Cringer]

Favre is worse this year do to a couple things.

Driver is the only sure WR the Packers have right now. As much hope as I had for Furgeson to step up, the guy pretty much sucks most of the time because he doesn't finish plays, pulls up shortof a catch, runs a bad pattern. Chatman is stepping up some so thats nice, but he is not a real good #2 WR right now.

The main thing in my mind, the Packers can't run the ball for shit. They didn't even try too much in the first two games to run the ball. This makes defending the pass a little easier for teams.

As far as Favre looking old, I don't see it. The guy breaks off a 20-25 yard run, he still slips away from defenders, and he is still dislocating his WR's fingers because he throws the ball so hard. Now, maybe he is 'older' in a different way, and the in mental and emotional areas he has a different perspective of football and his life.

The bad plays are something he has always done, everyone has always brought this up. He hasn't changed much in this area really. The big difference from one year to the next, or now to five years ago, is what he thinks he needs to do. There is very little defense in Green Bay, the running game sucks right now....this all means Favre is going to take chances and in some cases make things worse.

I don't think Favre has dropped of much at all, and I would still take him to lead my team. I would say #4 or #5 QB in the league is about right for him IMO right now.

[tucker342]

Forget Palmer, I'm picking the QB the heismen should have gone to in 2002 - Brad Banks (of course I don't even think he is in the NFL right now, but oh well....)

[tucker342]

dola-


seriously though, before this season my pick would have been either Culpepper or Favre, but now since they both suck, and because I refuse to pick Carson Palmer, I'm going with Trent Green

[scooper]

People who are picking Culpepper over Palmer have probably been watching figure skating the last few weeks. They were definately tuned in to something other than football in week two.

Hey guys, throw away your five months old fantasy football magazines and watch some football.

[Ryche]

People who are picking Culpepper over Palmer have probably been watching figure skating the last few weeks. They were definately tuned in to something other than football in week two.

Hey guys, throw away your five months old fantasy football magazines and watch some football.

Over the first two weeks, yes Palmer was better. But last year Culpepper threw for 4900 yards and 39 touchdowns. Palmer threw as many interceptions as touchdowns last year. 2 games do not wipe that out.

[RendeR]

Over the first two weeks, yes Palmer was better. But last year Culpepper threw for 4900 yards and 39 touchdowns. Palmer threw as many interceptions as touchdowns last year. 2 games do not wipe that out.


Then lets look at what does wipe it out, palmers last 6 games played: QB rating 125+

Culpepper's? PUH lEeeze.

Right now, over the recent play in the league, Palmer is at LEAST the 4th best guy if not in the top 3.

[scooper]

Over the first two weeks, yes Palmer was better. But last year Culpepper threw for 4900 yards and 39 touchdowns. Palmer threw as many interceptions as touchdowns last year. 2 games do not wipe that out.I apologize. I thought we were talking about this season. Well, as long as we want to be selective in order to decide the fourth best QB in the NFL TODAY, go back to the second half of last season. Heck, over his last few starts in 04, through today, Palmer is the highest rated QB in the league. If you are going to look at INT's last year, look at when they occurred. This is no longer early in the 04 season. Oh wait, Culpepper's numbers ARE bigger this year. Hopefully, as some point, Palmer's touchdowns in 2005 catch up with Culpepper's INT's.

Never mind the game when they played head to head.

[Cringer]

In defense of Culpepper, he has had a ton of changes this season and it will take some time to fully adjust I think. I admit I would take Favre over him right now simply because I am a Packer fan, otherwise I think Culpepper is pretty damn good.

He has lost Moss, his offensive coordinator......and come on, Mike Tice is the guys head coach.

[Ryche]

In defense of Culpepper, he has had a ton of changes this season and it will take some time to fully adjust I think. I admit I would take Favre over him right now simply because I am a Packer fan, otherwise I think Culpepper is pretty damn good.

He has lost Moss, his offensive coordinator......and come on, Mike Tice is the guys head coach.

And best offensive lineman and has had no running game to speak of.

Trust me, I am not saying Culpepper has been the 4th best quarterback this year. That would be completely laughable. Palmer looked damn good in that game against the Vikings and outplayed Culpepper by miles. But Culpepper still belongs in the discussion.

If we're just talking this season, the top 3 quarterbacks so far are Palmer, Brady and McNabb, not necessarily in that order.

[scooper]

And best offensive lineman and has had no running game to speak of.

Trust me, I am not saying Culpepper has been the 4th best quarterback this year. That would be completely laughable. Palmer looked damn good in that game against the Vikings and outplayed Culpepper by miles. But Culpepper still belongs in the discussion.

If we're just talking this season, the top 3 quarterbacks so far are Palmer, Brady and McNabb, not necessarily in that order.
The question is a bit vague, but I read it to mean currently the fourth best, so that would be this season. The great thing about it is, Palmer has started 17 games. He's going to get better.

[Ryche]

The question is a bit vague, but I read it to mean currently the fourth best, so that would be this season. The great thing about it is, Palmer has started 17 games. He's going to get better.

Totally agree, he's legit.

[Glengoyne]

I've was late to the table in seeing Culpepper's value, so late in fact, that he may have left the table before I got there. I certaintly don't consider him to be in Manning's league. IMO Manning is the best QB in football, without a doubt. Brady has certainly elevated himself above the rest of the pack with his play. McNabb, is someone who made me a believer over the last couple of years. Aside from his reported fade at the end of the last superbowl, he did much to place himself in that elite category.

I'm most disappointed that David Carr, Trent Dilfer, and Bill Volek weren't listed. Fresno has three QBs in the league, and they get no respecthttp://dynamic.gamespy.com/%7Efof/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif.

I think Duante is great in a fantasy league, well he has been to date, but I certainly don't think he's the answer in the NFL. I feel the same about Vick.

Palmer is doing very well right now, and has given little reason to believe he's not for real...but to elevate him to the very top, I don't think so. It takes more than seven games before I think he can lay claim to that "elite" group of QBs.


Edit to add that I've got to go with Favre. Even on the decline, I'd trust him for one more year.

[Abe Sargent]

Although I was offended by the post (not surprisingly), I didn't report it. And I don't report posts as a general rule (only 1 report ever) despite some belief to the contrary.


I agree with JG - I thought it to be an amazingly offensive post, but I never reported it, simply because I don't, ever, do that.


-Anxiety

[Abe Sargent]

I agree with JG - I thought it to be an amazingly offensive post, but I never reported it, simply because I don't, ever, do that.


-Anxiety


Dola-


And I voted for Leftwich.


-Anxiety

[Daimyo]

I for one, was arguing back then that a fairer contest would be Manning vs. "anyone else," and that Culpepper didn't merit such special consideration.
I've been thinking about this comment a bit with all the QB discussion threads and got me thinking about just how many quarterbacks I've heard being argued as better than Manning in the last six plus seasons. I've heard a lot of arguments over the best quarterback and in everyone of them Manning is offered as one of two "finalists." Since 1999, at one time or another I think you could have found a sizable portion of people arguing against Manning in favor of one of the guys below):

Manning vs Warner
Manning vs McNabb
Manning vs McNair
Manning vs Pennington
Manning vs Vick
Manning vs Culpepper
Manning vs Brady

I guess more that stats or records, that's about the best argument for him being the best quarterback in the NFL... for a while now any time someone wants to argue for someone as the best, without fail Manning is the standard of comparison. People might argue against him as the best, but it appears he's no worse than second on anyone's list -- I don't think you can say the same about anyone else.

[rkmsuf]

I mean what's "better" though?

Is "better" a guy I can have on my crappy team that will propel them to mediocre/somewhat good status just because we need to score points.

Or is "better" a guy on a good team that maximizes the offensive production, inspires and ultimately leads the franchise to multiple super bowl victories.

Can't anyone recognize that at least for Manning that he may not have fit in and excelled in the way Brady was asked to? Is that even possible?

[Daimyo]

Can't anyone recognize that at least for Manning that he may not have fit in and excelled in the way Brady was asked to? Is that even possible?

I will agree that

1) The Pats are clearly the best team in the NFL and probably the best (relative to their competition) in my lifetime. I am consistently in awe of what they've accomplished and how they always adapt perfectly to the competition.

2) Brady fits what the Pats do about as well as any QB can fit a system.

However, I think Manning would fit the Pat's system better than Brady would fit the Colt's system. I think there would be some dropoff putting Manning on the Pats (it would be hard to match Brady's success there!), but I think there would be a much larger dropoff putting Brady on the Colts.

Of course its impossible to really prove who is "better" as it is now. If you were somehow able to simulate NFL seasons accurately and put each starting QB onto each NFL team (1024 total combinations of QB + team), simmed a full season with each combination, and then summed each QB's total wins, Manning would be at the top of the list. I have no doubt Brady would be in the top 5 and likely the Brady + Pats combo would be the best of them, but Manning would have more success overall.

[gkb]

As a Denver Bronco fan and after seeing the poll results I find it...surprising that Brian Griese has received two votes. I haven't read the entire thread yet, maybe someone makes a good case for him......

I voted for Vick btw.

[Ryche]

Ok, I'm rescinding my vote for Culpepper. I don't know what has happened to him, maybe it's a lack of confidence in his offensive line or receivers, but he's having trouble hitting open receivers at this point. I'll jump on the Carson Palmer bandwagon now.

[gottimd]

As a Denver Bronco fan and after seeing the poll results I find it...surprising that Brian Griese has received two votes. I haven't read the entire thread yet, maybe someone makes a good case for him......

I voted for Vick btw.
Read posts #4 and #5.

[Solecismic]

I voted for Trent Green. Very consistent. He gets more yards per play than most, year after year, with generally crappy receivers. If the Chiefs had any playoff success, he'd be considered a star in the league.

Carson Palmer has looked great over the last ten games. And Eli Manning is stepping up. Drew Brees is another young guy who looks like he could be a star. Bret Favre is fading, but certainly would have been in the top three or four most of his career.

[Airhog]

Everyone knows that Dean Houston is the first, second, third, and fourth best QB in the league right now!