NFL Week 5

[sabotai]

Dallas takes a 30-3 lead over the Eagles. I know the Eagles came back last week, but this is about twice as big of a lead they have to overcome.

[bhlloy]

Bidding war. they have serious o-line issues, and really need to adress that first. If you can trade down for 2 1st rounders, you spend them both on lineman.

What he said... Carr can be at least a serviceable NFL QB, he's only looked really bad when he gets sacked 6-7 times a game and has to force passes just to get them off in time. Somebody will want Leinart (or Young even if he keeps his season on track) bad enough that they can probably get a real nice package of picks for the #1

[miami_fan]

How long until they pull McNabb?

[ISiddiqui]

This loss doesn't bother me one bit, fyi.Especially if every other team in the NFC South loses... COME ON ARIZONA!

[ISiddiqui]

What's up with Peyton? 169 yards and 2 INTs, no TDs.

[sabotai]

How long until they pull McNabb? Probably now. 3rd Quarter is just about over. Of course, just as I type that, Philly intercepts the ball and takes it back for a TD. Still, McNabb is hurt and they are still down 20 points with a minute left in the 3rd.

[DaddyTorgo]

get the ball to T.O. get the ball to T.O. !!!!!

for the love of my fantasy team!!!

[miami_fan]

And here I was wondering when TO was going to explode on the sidelines. Should have known it would have been Keyshawn

[Buccaneer]

Especially if every other team in the NFC South loses... COME ON ARIZONA!
I know, I really wish Tampa had won. :(

[ISiddiqui]

I know, I really wish Tampa had won. :(You lost to the Vinnie led Jets! HAW HAW!

[Greyroofoo]

Gosh, facing the Colts D on your first start, you really gotta feel for Alex Smith

[timmynausea]

Is Tatum Bell finally taking over for Anderson? They are both on my fantasy team.

[RendeR]

Who was considered the better prospect in college, Leinart or Palmer?



According to the NFL Live and Playbook guys: Palmer was much more complete package and had a cooler demeonor under pressure.

[Thomkal]

Ugh. Why on 4th and 5 late in the game would you throw down the field to the endzone and a jump ball? Mccown threw for near 400 yards again, but really showed some nerves late in the game. Cards really should have won that game.

[Buccaneer]

Shit. Redskins 2-pt conversion failed after driving 95 yards for a score. :(

[TroyF]

Shit. Redskins 2-pt conversion failed after driving 95 yards for a score. :(


You didn't think they'd luck into a win 4 weeks in a row, did you? :)

The Redskins of this year really remind me a lot of last years Broncos. They can do some things on offense to frustrate you, but they are inconsistent as hell and make mistakes. The defense is just solid. You look up at the end of the game and say "wow, look at that, 220 total yards, only a td or two given up." Then you realize they didn't have a single game changing play in the game. No sacks, no forced turnovers, no stuffs for four yard losses.

That type of defense can work if you have an offense that can put points on the board. But when you have an offense like Denver or Washington, you need your D to give you a short field once in awhile. The Broncos have forced turnovers this year and have put pressure on the QB. (though today the pressure only came in spurts, it did come, it never came for Washington)

If the turnovers and the pressure stops, so will the W's. And for the Skins, I'm not sure they can win unless their defense starts to make things happen.

[TroyF]

Who was considered the better prospect in college, Leinart or Palmer?

By the NFL scouts? Leinhart. Right now he's considered the best QB prospect to come down the pike sinse Peyton Manning left school. There are almost zero questions about him. Strong arm, pro style offense, big game pedigree, consistent both years as a starter. . .

That could always change as the microscope gets shown on him this year, but it isn't likely.

[Buccaneer]

If Wash's D put no pressure on Plummer, how the hell did he only come up with 9 completions and 92 yards passing?

[TroyF]

If Wash's D put no pressure on Plummer, how the hell did he only come up with 9 completions and 92 yards passing?

Simple, he sucks.

Tell me one time when Plummer hit the deck on a passing play Buc. He simply wasn't hit. The coverage was great (the CB's play on Lelie late in the game was incredible).

But Plummer was rarely even made to move on a pocket pass. He never once had to scramble (his only runs were on rollouts when everyone was covered and he took off) He never once had his arm hit, a pass tipped at the line, or anything like that.

Again, the Redskins D is very good, they just don't make plays. Four games played now, 4 turnovers forced and 4 sacks. That's against the Bears rookie QB making his first start, the Cowboys, the turnover/sack prone Seahawks and Denver.

[TazFTW]

# of teams in the NFC East with a record over .500: 4
# of teams in the rest of the NFC with a record over .500: 4

Can we eliminate the playoff spots for the NFC North and West winners and just have the entire NFC East, the winner of NFC South and a wildcard in the playoffs?

[Honolulu_Blue]

# of teams in the NFC East with a record over .500: 4
# of teams in the rest of the NFC with a record over .500: 4

Can we eliminate the playoff spots for the NFC North and West winners and just have the entire NFC East, the winner of NFC South and a wildcard in the playoffs?
No.

The Lions are in sole possession of first place in the NFC North. Playoffs, baybee!!!!

[Honolulu_Blue]

If Wash's D put no pressure on Plummer, how the hell did he only come up with 9 completions and 92 yards passing?
Wow. Those are Harrington-like numbers there.

[TroyF]

Wow. Those are Harrington-like numbers there.


Yeah, they were, but you ahve to factor in a few things there:

1) It was freezing rain all game. Plummer plays horribly in the rain/snow and always has.

2) Washington has a solid D, even if they don't make enough game changing plays.

3) The Broncos played in horrible field possession for much of the second half, being backed up inside the twenty multiple times.

Still, an ugly performence. The good thing is he didn't make the killer mistake (or any mistake for that matter) No fumbles, no INT's. If he's going to suck, it's nice when he sucks without turning the ball over. At least we have a chance to win if he can do that.

[Neuqua]

The more I watch of Carson Palmer/Chad Johnson, the more I like.

[miami_fan]

That was a hell of a kick

[cthomer5000]

Cincy's TE just alligator-armed a pass pretty badly just now.

[Greyroofoo]

Colts only unbeaten team, SWEET!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[RendeR]

*sigh* tough game to lose, this game like many this weekend were horribly officiated. The lack of holding calls on boths sides of the ball was apalling.

Congrats Jags, you made the plays you had to.

Cincinnati really has to figure out how to play run defense. it still sucks. Taylor won that game for the jags, period. Leftwich was awful. but when you rip off 20 yard runs regularly, the passing game really isn't all that important.

4-1 still a damned good record. Do we still have more wins than all but what? 5-6 teams in the NFC? Gotta get ready for the Division games coming up. Big stuff the next few weeks.

[stevew]

Who Dey?

[Northwood_DK]

Cincy's TE just alligator-armed a pass pretty badly just now.

Sorry that’s and expression I have never heard before. Can some one please explain for the European what “alligator-armed” is all about?

[Eaglesfan27]

Sorry that’s and expression I have never heard before. Can some one please explain for the European what “alligator-armed” is all about?
It's a phrase to indicate that the player didn't really extend his arms to try to catch the ball because he was too worried about protecting himself from a big hit.

[Eaglesfan27]

Dola -

Ricky Watters back when he was with Philly was infamous for repeatedly doing this.

[cthomer5000]

Sorry that’s and expression I have never heard before. Can some one please explain for the European what “alligator-armed” is all about?
EaglesFan prettymuch nailed it. Alligators have tiny little arms, so it's slang for when a guy doesn't extend his arms out, because he knows he might be about to take a hit.

Schoebel alligator-armed a totally catchable ball that would have gone for about a 15 yard gain. Next play Palmer is hit and fumbles, Jags recover, game over. Makes you wonder what might have happened.

[Ragone]

Oh, and this just in. . . the Texans are a HORRIBLE football team. If they get the #1 pick, I could see them taking Leinhart and trading Carr. Capers may as well get the resume printed up there is no way in hell he coaches this team next year.


You know.. still can't blame carr.. he's on a pace to be sacked 111 times.. what good is picking leinart gonna do.. sure he's made some terrible reads/decisions.. but most of them are out of self preservation :)

[st.cronin]

It wasn't his best game but I was REALLY impressed with Palmer's performance. There were multiple Jaguars in the backfield on every play just about, but his demeanor was real sharp; he always seemed to know what was going on.

[Radii]

Especially if every other team in the NFC South loses... COME ON ARIZONA!


Whew, go Panthers. I still can't figure out if Carolina is a good team or not. Detroit next week, then Minnesota before a big game against Tampa. If Harrington throws for 300+ next week then I know Carolina is in big trouble.

[Wolfpack]

Yep, the Cats are unfortunately playing to their level of opposition, which likely means another close game next week in Detroit.

BTW, that opening day loss to New Orleans is going to loom larger and larger. I heard on the radio coming back from lunch that Deuce's done for the hear after tearing up his knee, which means the Saints are pretty much toast now.

[korme]

McAllister out for the year, confirmed.

[DaddyTorgo]

just heard this myself on the radio. big blow for whatever hopes the saints had of salvaging the season.

[Raiders Army]

Not to be opportunistic, but should I pick up Aaron Stecker or Antwain Smith?

[DaddyTorgo]

twain i'd think

[Solecismic]

McAllister out for the year, confirmed.

One of the sports sites I visit had the headline, "New Orleans Drops a Deuce" for a few minutes. They thought better of it.

[cthomer5000]

The Chargers are wearing their throwback unis tonight. It's amazing how refreshing a white helmet is, since they're pretty rare. White pants are even more rare these days, I absolutely hate the dark-on-dark trend that almost every team in the league seems to have adopted.

[Fonzie]

The Chargers are wearing their throwback unis tonight. It's amazing how refreshing a white helmet is, since they're pretty rare. White pants are even more rare these days, I absolutely hate the dark-on-dark trend that almost every team in the league seems to have adopted.
Agreed. Good stuff, those uniforms.

[cthomer5000]

Roethlisberger doesn't get enough credit for his mobility. He has unbelivable running instincts, which is way more important than flat-out speed. I'm impressed every time I see him play.

[st.cronin]

Roethlisberger doesn't get enough credit for his mobility. He has unbelivable running instincts, which is way more important than flat-out speed. I'm impressed every time I see him play.

More than once I've seen linebackers just bounce off him. He's a beast.

[ISiddiqui]

Agreed. Good stuff, those uniforms.It may be oversaid by analysts, but they really ARE the best uniforms in the NFL.

[miami_fan]

Ahhh the Chargers are following the examples of the Ravens and the Dolphins I see

[stevew]

Chargers are just imploding on penalties. Nice to see Bettis getting some work.

[MikeVic]

Nice punt return San Diego. :)

edit: Bah. "unmolested." What kind of call was that. I agree with Madden. Dumb rule.

[Swaggs]

What a crock of shit.

[stevew]

These refs suck....screwing both sides over nicely.

[GrantDawg]

What? If he drops it, he still has a right to allow him to try to catch it? Some screwed up stuff there.

[ISiddiqui]

What an utterly idiotic rule (fair catch rule). Madden was spot on there. Just a dumb rule.

[Swaggs]

It wasn't even like he was bobbling it. It was in the air over his head.

[sabotai]

Yeah, dumb rule. According to the rule, it probably has to hit the ground for it to be a muff. But yeah, dumb rule.

On another note, this is one of the worst games I've seen in quite awhile.

[hukarez]

My buddy's at the stadium right now, hoping to get some airtime with a glittery sign he made: "Cowher needs more Cow Bell". Of course, I don't envy the traffic he's going to hit trying to get home from the game. Ugh.

[RendeR]

The return man has to be allowed an unmolested chance to catch the ball, this includes the time it takes him to get the ball under control if he bobbles it at first, the player hit him during that time and by rule, that is a penalty. I don't think its dumb at all, get your body under control, set up in front of the guy and wack him AFTER he catches the ball, not during the attempt.

I stand by my stance: Madden is a fucking moron. They shoulda retired his decrepit ass years ago.

[RendeR]

My buddy's at the stadium right now, hoping to get some airtime with a glittery sign he made: "Cowher needs more Cow Bell". Of course, I don't envy the traffic he's going to hit trying to get home from the game. Ugh.


I won't argue with that sentiment, there are only 2 roads in or out of that place, its situated at the very basin of an old ocean inlet that dried up. its the worst possible place anywhere in the area to have put a stadium complex.

[kingfc22]

I won't argue with that sentiment, there are only 2 roads in or out of that place, its situated at the very basin of an old ocean inlet that dried up. its the worst possible place anywhere in the area to have put a stadium complex.
I'd have to say that Candlestick Park is right up there with "worst possible location" ever.

[kingfc22]

That was a quick drive.

[RendeR]

I'd have to say that Candlestick Park is right up there with "worst possible location" ever.


Yeah it ranks right up there, but the view from the stick is gorgious, where as the view from San Diego is shyte.

[sabotai]

The return man has to be allowed an unmolested chance to catch the ball, this includes the time it takes him to get the ball under control if he bobbles it at first, the player hit him during that time and by rule, that is a penalty.
He HAD his chance and he didn't catch it. It bounced off his hands and into the air. The rule is dumb.

I don't think its dumb at all, get your body under control, set up in front of the guy and wack him AFTER he catches the ball, not during the attempt.
Even when he calls for a fair catch, which is what happened on the play? :p

[RendeR]

Antonio Gates is a fucking BEAST.

[TroyF]

OK, so the Patriots smack the Steelers in Pittsburgh. (with Pitt looking like a junior high team for a majority of the second half)

SD just destroys NE. Dominates them and makes them look like a junior high team.

Now Pitt is dominating the Chargers in SD. Even with the score close, the Chargers are getting destroyed in TOP and Tomlinson can't get loose on the ground for anything. (and the reffing has been poor on both sides of the ball)

So if this were to continue for another quarter, who is better than who?

My vote:

NE are the champs, they get the benefit of the doubt until they get beat.
Pittsburgh would have beaten the Chargers on the road, they'd have to get the nod IMO.

And SD, despite lighting up NE, would be 2-3 and two games back in their own division. (really 2 1/2 as they lost to the team they are behind)

And if the Chargers come back and win this one, the Steelers will be the team 2 games back in their own division.

Funny how quickly things can change in the NFL, even at this early stage of the year.

[TroyF]

Oh, and those Chargers uniforms are the best in the NFL, period. I'm still baffled as to why they don't just make them the every week uniforms.

[RendeR]

Thats making my point even further, he called for a FAIR CATCH, the steelers by RULE can't even TOUCH him. Period.

The play was called perfectly, the steeler player needs to learn some disciplne.

[hukarez]

I won't argue with that sentiment, there are only 2 roads in or out of that place, its situated at the very basin of an old ocean inlet that dried up. its the worst possible place anywhere in the area to have put a stadium complex.
I always avoid the 15 as much as possible. Hell, Mission Valley alone...some of those 163 merges are death traps. I told my buddy to hang out for an hour and a half or something, or hang out at the Fenton Marketplace for traffic to die down. If I'm not mistaken, last I recall, it was stated that Qualcomm has the 'second' largest parking lot among stadiums? Doesn't help much with traffic, that's for sure.

[RendeR]

Oh, and those Chargers uniforms are the best in the NFL, period. I'm still baffled as to why they don't just make them the every week uniforms.


Can everyone try deep throating those uniforms just a LITTLE bit more? cmon, you cant ake another inch or two! I have faith...


Sheesh, yeah they're great, wtf is the repetition for? :D

[ISiddiqui]

Can everyone try deep throating those uniforms just a LITTLE bit more? cmon, you cant ake another inch or two! I have faith...


Sheesh, yeah they're great, wtf is the repetition for? :DCause we have to put up with all the other uniforms every week ;).

[sabotai]

Thats making my point even further, he called for a FAIR CATCH, the steelers by RULE can't even TOUCH him. Period.
They CAN touch him after he muffs the catch. The ball bounced off his hands and into the air. That should count as a muff. It wasn't just a simple bobble. It hit his hands, went into the air and the Steelers' player grabbed it.

[cthomer5000]

Roethlisberger down and writhing in pain (knee).

[kingfc22]

All the Steelers fans are holding their breath right now.

[cthomer5000]

Charlie Batch time (*gulp*).

[Eaglesfan27]

That doesn't look good.

[ThunderingHERD]

That replay didn't look good at all.

[hukarez]

Roethlisberger down and writhing in pain (knee).
Was it the knee? Or his shin? Either way, that looked extremely painful..

[Ksyrup]

I swear I just saw his left leg nearly dangling from below the knee when they turned him over. Maybe not a break, but it looked really loose. Not good at all.

[sabotai]

Ouch...

[zums]

looked like a cheap shot - castillo was down and kinda rolled when its obvious to me he didnt need to roll

-zums

[cthomer5000]

I mean from my lay-person point of view at least there was no twisting impact there, no? Couldn't it just be some sort of hyper-extension or just a bad shot to his kneecap? (trying to look on the bright side)

[Honolulu_Blue]

Ow.

[sabotai]

Time to just run the ball and kick the FG. Don't let Batch throw it! :)

[Fonzie]

Knees aren't supposed to bend that way.

[cthomer5000]

looked like a cheap shot - castillo was down and kinda rolled when its obvious to me he didnt need to roll

-zums
I strongly disagree, it was all in the course of the play. everything looks like a cheap shot in slow-motion.

[Fonzie]

I mean from my lay-person point of view at least there was no twisting impact there, no? Couldn't it just be some sort of hyper-extension or just a bad shot to his kneecap? (trying to look on the bright side)
Possibly. But it looked hurty either way.

[CHEMICAL SOLDIER]

That knee didnt look good.

[zums]

I strongly disagree, it was all in the course of the play. everything looks like a cheap shot in slow-motion.


yeah after i thought about it more, not really a cheap shot - but i maintain castillo rolled into him on purpose (in an effort to knock him down, not hurt him.

-zums

[cthomer5000]

That knee didnt look good.
Of course it didn't look good, but in all honestly most serious knee injuries look much worse upon initial viewing. It looked bad, but not "oh my got turn away from the screen!" bad.

[RendeR]

They CAN touch him after he muffs the catch. The ball bounced off his hands and into the air. That should count as a muff. It wasn't just a simple bobble. It hit his hands, went into the air and the Steelers' player grabbed it.


By rule a the ball must touch the turf to be considered a "muff", players bobble the ball making catches all the time, catching a punt is no different. The rule is plain as day and he broke it.

[ISiddiqui]

Wow.. there really are a lot of Steelers fans there... lots of Pittsburgh people migrating to San Diego? ;)

[Honolulu_Blue]

Charlie Batch time (*gulp*).
If this were FOF2, the Steeler's would be fine.

[ISiddiqui]

Good... Pitt up by 2 now.

[kingfc22]

Tough loss for San Diego.

[zums]

Of course it didn't look good, but in all honestly most serious knee injuries look much worse upon initial viewing. It looked bad, but not "oh my got turn away from the screen!" bad.


yeah but not all bad injuries look horrible either - hell, look at mcallister yesterday. looked like a lil twist, came out expecting nothing serious, then today a torn acl. curtis enis played the second half of a game w/ a torn acl back in the day. the truth is with knees you just dont know.

-zums

[RendeR]

Have I mentioned just how much I despise Pittsburgh?

Gah. Fucking black and Gold in my nightmares from age 10.......

[MikeVic]

Have I mentioned just how much I despise Pittsburgh?

Gah. Fucking black and Gold in my nightmares from age 10.......

Explains your agreement with the dumb NFL rule. ;)

[TroyF]

By rule a the ball must touch the turf to be considered a "muff", players bobble the ball making catches all the time, catching a punt is no different. The rule is plain as day and he broke it.


Maybe so, but I don't think Madden ever argued what the rule was, he argued that it was an idiotic rule. And I agree with him. If the return man can't catch the ball cleanly, he should become a live player on the field.

The rule is clear and the officials made the correct call. But we have every right to disagree with the rule.

The tuck rule is another one I disagree with strongly and it went for my team yesterday. There was no doubt about the definition of the rule there either. Plummers arm was going forward, and he never tucked it. It's an incomplete pass. I know they've reviewed the rule, but I think they are fools. This is another one that should be altered. Doubt it will, but it should be.

[sabotai]

By rule a the ball must touch the turf to be considered a "muff", players bobble the ball making catches all the time, catching a punt is no different. The rule is plain as day and he broke it.
Yeah, I know that's the rule. Hence the reason I call it a "dumb rule". It's one thing to bobble the ball a bit and it's another to have it hit off your hands and go flying away from your body. The rules should reflect that. Once the ball hits off his hands, it should be considered live. The rule book doesn't state that, so I call it a "dumb rule".

[RendeR]

Explains your agreement with the dumb NFL rule. ;)


Actually it does nothing of the kind, same thing got called on my Bengals last week, I agreed with the call then too.

[TroyF]

Can everyone try deep throating those uniforms just a LITTLE bit more? cmon, you cant ake another inch or two! I have faith...


Sheesh, yeah they're great, wtf is the repetition for? :D


We are hoping if we keep saying it enough the Chargers will grow some brains and make them the standard uniform again.

[RendeR]

Yeah, I know that's the rule. Hence the reason I call it a "dumb rule". It's one thing to bobble the ball a bit and it's another to have it hit off your hands and go flying away from your body. The rules should reflect that. Once the ball hits off his hands, it should be considered live. The rule book doesn't state that, so I call it a "dumb rule".


And you are entitled to cling to an "dumb" opinion of an established rule. The Fair catch rule doesn't end simply because the guy bobbles a ball. Watch the replay, the Pitt player was going to hit him even if he had caught it cleanly, they would STILL have had an interference penalty. The steelers were using the bobble as en excuse to negate a valid flag.

[sabotai]

And you are entitled to cling to an "dumb" opinion of an established rule.
Heh. Nice, start throwing insults at people because they don't agree with you. I think we're done here.

[Swaggs]

OK, so the Patriots smack the Steelers in Pittsburgh. (with Pitt looking like a junior high team for a majority of the second half)

SD just destroys NE. Dominates them and makes them look like a junior high team.

Now Pitt is dominating the Chargers in SD. Even with the score close, the Chargers are getting destroyed in TOP and Tomlinson can't get loose on the ground for anything. (and the reffing has been poor on both sides of the ball)

So if this were to continue for another quarter, who is better than who?

My vote:

NE are the champs, they get the benefit of the doubt until they get beat.
Pittsburgh would have beaten the Chargers on the road, they'd have to get the nod IMO.

And SD, despite lighting up NE, would be 2-3 and two games back in their own division. (really 2 1/2 as they lost to the team they are behind)

And if the Chargers come back and win this one, the Steelers will be the team 2 games back in their own division.

Funny how quickly things can change in the NFL, even at this early stage of the year.

How do you figure the Patriots "smacked Pittsburgh" and made them look like "a junior high team in the second half?" You obviously did not watch the game.

The Patriots won on a great individual performance by Brady and another FG by Vinatieri. The score was 23-20. The dominating second half amounted to the Pats outscoring the Steelers 16-10.

[Solecismic]

Given the situation in New Orleans, don't you think it would be nice if the rest of the teams in the NFL banded together and provided a replacement for McAllister? We're not doing enough to compensate the people of the Crescent City for their loss.

I think San Diego should send them LT. It's not like he did all that much against Pittsburgh.

[TazFTW]

Eli and Tiki. Tiki for the loss of Deuce. Eli because he's from the area so it would be a story that warms the cockles of your heart. It'll also even up the 9th home game the Giants got.

[stevew]

Figures that a Roider would take out the steelers QB. Day gum.

[TroyF]

How do you figure the Patriots "smacked Pittsburgh" and made them look like "a junior high team in the second half?" You obviously did not watch the game.

The Patriots won on a great individual performance by Brady and another FG by Vinatieri. The score was 23-20. The dominating second half amounted to the Pats outscoring the Steelers 16-10.

I watched the entire game. Outside of one drive in the second half, the Steelers couldn't do crap. (their FG in the second half was set up when the Pats fumbled the ball on their own 25 or so)

The Steelers led in total yards 181-175 at halftime. In the second half they were outgained 250-88.

The Steelers fought hard. They kept the Patriots out of the end zone and held them to FG's and FG attempts and they came up with one hell of a final drive after a great kickoff return. But there was NO question who the better football team was on the field that day. None at all.

And I was cheering for the Steelers in that game. I wanted them to look like the better team and I wanted them to win.

[Aylmar]

And you are entitled to cling to an "dumb" opinion of an established rule. The Fair catch rule doesn't end simply because the guy bobbles a ball. Watch the replay, the Pitt player was going to hit him even if he had caught it cleanly, they would STILL have had an interference penalty. The steelers were using the bobble as en excuse to negate a valid flag.

Take off the Bengals glasses. It's a dumb rule. Insulting people's opinions won't change that. Just because a rule is 'established' doesn't mean that it's good or that it makes sense. If he muffs the catch, he should become a live player. It's questionable whether or not there would have been a collision without the muffed catch. To claim otherwise is allowing your bias to bleed into your analysis.

I edited for clarification. I originally said if he bobbled the catch, he should be a live player. I changed it to muffed. There was no way he was going to bring that ball back to his body. It bounced two yards forward off his chest. The rule is designed to prevent players from getting creamed when they slightly bobble the catch. Not to keep a ball that has bounced totally off a player from being plucked out the air by the defense. What if it had bounced off his helmet and gone ten yards upfield? Can the defense not recover it until it hits the ground?

[albionmoonlight]

Given the situation in New Orleans, don't you think it would be nice if the rest of the teams in the NFL banded together and provided a replacement for McAllister? We're not doing enough to compensate the people of the Crescent City for their loss.

I think San Diego should send them LT. It's not like he did all that much against Pittsburgh.
Maybe make playing for the Saints a punishment for violating league rules. That would deter me more than a four game suspension.

[RendeR]

assinine BS edited for clarity....

What if it had bounced off his helmet and gone ten yards upfield? Can the defense not recover it until it hits the ground?


YES, because the definition of a FAIR catch means they can't do ANYTHING to the ball or the player until it hits the ground, hitting the ground determines wether he catches the ball or not. Period. Why is this a fucking issue? Can the Steeler homers not accept that their player fucked up? How am *I* the one with a bias here? I already stated this call went against us before and I stand by the call then TOO. WTF dude? Read the posts!

What is more rediculous? My statement that the rule is acceptable and valid or the crying at the wind because "its a dumb rule"?? You guys sound like 5 yr olds who got tackled a yard short of the endzone "No way man DO OVER! Thats a dumb rule, you can't call that!"

Sheesh, give it a fucking rest.

[albionmoonlight]

Take off the Bengals glasses. It's a dumb rule. Insulting people's opinions won't change that. Just because a rule is 'established' doesn't mean that it's good or that it makes sense. If he muffs the catch, he should become a live player. It's questionable whether or not there would have been a collision without the muffed catch. To claim otherwise is allowing your bias to bleed into your analysis.

I edited for clarification. I originally said if he bobbled the catch, he should be a live player. I changed it to muffed. There was no way he was going to bring that ball back to his body. It bounced two yards forward off his chest. The rule is designed to prevent players from getting creamed when they slightly bobble the catch. Not to keep a ball that has bounced totally off a player from being plucked out the air by the defense. What if it had bounced off his helmet and gone ten yards upfield? Can the defense not recover it until it hits the ground?
Isn't a bright line rule better than leaving yet one more thing up to the discretion of the refs? Right now, it is very clear: you cannot interfere with a player who calls for a fair catch unless the ball hits the ground.

The replacement rule would be: you cannot interfere with a player who calls for a fair catch unless the ball hits the ground, or--in the view of the official, the ball contacts the returner and bounces in the air in such a way that the returner would not have been able to obtain possession of the ball before it hit the ground.

For players on the kick coverage team who have to make a split second decision while running at 4.4 speed and who see the ball bounce--I think that the bright line rule makes more sense than something that the official will have to adjudicate post hoc.

Remember, this isn't like the force out rule where the defender will be doing the same thing regardless of what the ref decides. This is a situation where a player has to decide what the ref will say after the fact--and what hangs in the balance is the difference between possibly losing a turnover or getting a 15 yard penalty.

The rule makes sense as it is written and is a lot better than the alternative. Even if the ball bounces 100 yards away from the returner.

[Aylmar]

YES, because the definition of a FAIR catch means they can't do ANYTHING to the ball or the player until it hits the ground, hitting the ground determines wether he catches the ball or not. Period. Why is this a fucking issue? Can the Steeler homers not accept that their player fucked up? How am *I* the one with a bias here? I already stated this call went against us before and I stand by the call then TOO. WTF dude? Read the posts!

What is more rediculous? My statement that the rule is acceptable and valid or the crying at the wind because "its a dumb rule"?? You guys sound like 5 yr olds who got tackled a yard short of the endzone "No way man DO OVER! Thats a dumb rule, you can't call that!"

Sheesh, give it a fucking rest.

It's fun to debate people who just dismiss points arbitrarily because they don't agree, isn't it?

I did read it. Saying "It went against my Bengals and I agreed with it" doesn't make a bit of difference in the discussion of this particular instance. Was the call against the Bengals the exact same circumstance? You state that Chidi would have run into the guy anyway. I disagree. Apparently, though, I'm not allowed to do that. Apparently, your interpretation is the only valid one that exists. Ironic stance for a guy who feels the way you do about religion.

[Aylmar]

Isn't a bright line rule better than leaving yet one more thing up to the discretion of the refs? Right now, it is very clear: you cannot interfere with a player who calls for a fair catch unless the ball hits the ground.

The replacement rule would be: you cannot interfere with a player who calls for a fair catch unless the ball hits the ground, or--in the view of the official, the ball contacts the returner and bounces in the air in such a way that the returner would not have been able to obtain possession of the ball before it hit the ground.

For players on the kick coverage team who have to make a split second decision while running at 4.4 speed and who see the ball bounce--I think that the bright line rule makes more sense than something that the official will have to adjudicate post hoc.

Remember, this isn't like the force out rule where the defender will be doing the same thing regardless of what the ref decides. This is a situation where a player has to decide what the ref will say after the fact--and what hangs in the balance is the difference between possibly losing a turnover or getting a 15 yard penalty.

The rule makes sense as it is written and is a lot better than the alternative. Even if the ball bounces 100 yards away from the returner.


Now this is an argument that actually attempts to discuss the point. Bravo.

I think the split second decision is a good point, but to me, there is a clear difference between muffing a catch and bobbling it a bit. As soon as the ball hit him last night, didn't you know that it was a muffed catch? That he wouldn't catch it again. It's totally unlike a ball that say...turns a bit in the retuner's hands and then settles or bounces up a little bit. That ball wasn't going to be brought in by the returner. No chance. Everyone watching it knew that was the case, including the defender.

From the other side, that ball bounced right at Iwouma. I don't think he could have avoided it if he tried. Despite what others have said, Chidi actually threw off the Charger block and hesitated in front of the guy. Looked like a million other fair catch routines until the ball popped up into the air. So, if you're the defender, what do you do in that case? Try not to catch it? You're a coach trying to teach someone how to play within the confines of the rules. What is your instruction to the gunner in that case? Wait it out?

[ISiddiqui]

Why is this a fucking issue?
Because it's a dumb ass rule.

[Aylmar]

Just for reference, I think the fair catch should be eliminated. Catch the ball in play. If it's not safe to do that, let it bounce and take it where it is downed.

[Butter]

You know what Bill Cowher needs? A chin extension.

[RendeR]

Perhaps Steeler fans should take after their coach:

Bill Cowher after the game : "It was the right call."

As for what I would teach my players: If its a fair catch signal stop, stand near him and be ready for a fumble. He can't advance the ball in any way and youu can't touch HIM OR THE BALL until it hits the ground. Be ready for that.

and yes, they are professionals, they can handle that, even at 4.4 speeds. its what they are paid to do.

[Aylmar]

Of course Cowher will agree with the call. To do otherwise is to be fined by the NFL. Unless it's a heat of battle thing after a very tough loss, Cowher never criticizes the officials. Stuffs pictures in their pockets at halftime, yes. Criticizes, almost never (almost forgot about that Tenn loss in the 2002 divisional playoff). :)

[TroyF]

Perhaps Steeler fans should take after their coach:

Bill Cowher after the game : "It was the right call."

As for what I would teach my players: If its a fair catch signal stop, stand near him and be ready for a fumble. He can't advance the ball in any way and youu can't touch HIM OR THE BALL until it hits the ground. Be ready for that.

and yes, they are professionals, they can handle that, even at 4.4 speeds. its what they are paid to do.

This thing happens so rarely, I doubt it's something that coaches spend a lot of time on or a rule many players know about. In fact, you didn't see a SINGLE Charger player arguing the call when it went Pitt's way to start.

They all walked off the field with their heads down and the defense started to trot onto the field.

It was a fluke play, period. The Steelers guy reacted to a loose ball the way almost all of us would. He jumped on it.

The refs got the call RIGHT. Again, I'll say that. NOBODY here is arguing that the officials missed that call. Not a single person. We are arguing that the rule is idiotic. Just like I doubt many Redskin fans will complain about the Plummer "incomplete" pass. That's what the rule is and life sucks sometimes.

But we don't have to like it. The ball bounced 2 yards in front of him. This wasn't a "bobble", this was a pure miss. He wasn't getting it back. To me, that ball is live. (I guess I should add one more time that I understand what the rule says and that I know the refs got the call right, as some people here seem to think the arguement against the rule means we think the official blew the call in someway or that we are all Pittsburgh homers. .. I guess Madden and Michaels are Pitt homers as well because they both called the rule dumb too)

[albionmoonlight]

The ball bounced 2 yards in front of him. This wasn't a "bobble", this was a pure miss. He wasn't getting it back. To me, that ball is live.
But doesn't the rule you are proposing put a lot of burden on the gunners. As it stands now, they can know the rule. Don't interfere with the player or the ball until it hits the ground.

Under the changed rule, they would have to make a decision (do I risk a 15 yard penalty or do I risk missing a chance to get a turnover)--the correct result of which will depend on what the official says after the play is over.

The rules should, to the extent possible, be clear and allow the players to play all-out. Every time you interject rules that leave things to post-hoc analysis, you have players playing more tentatively.

Sometimes, rules like that are just necessary, but I don't think that this is one of those cases. The bright line rule works well enough.

Agree to disagree, I guess.

[Wolfpack]

Bill Cowher after the game : "It was the right call."

He may have said that after the game, but given one camera shot they had on him after the particular play in question, he didn't think so at the time. He looked to be about thisclose to snapping and ripping the linesman's head off. Either that or his head just exploding spontaneously. Yeah, it's true, he generally looks like that but that was a particularly intense look even for him.

[rkmsuf]

Cowher is the king of face time on those broadcasts. They love to show him on the sidelines. He by far gets the most camera shots out there.

[albionmoonlight]

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2005/writers/dr_z/10/12/ranks.week5/index.html

Looks like the rule may not be what we thought. See the San Diego writeup.

[stevew]

Triplett's team is incapable of making a judgement call. How these guys still have their jobs is beyond me.

[Kozure]

What the league should allow is replays of certain penalties, especially penalties that require a judgement call from an official. But they won't becuase they want to save the face of officials. When it gets down to it, the league would rather protect the integrity of its officiating crews rather than the actual outcomes of games.

I know that someone can say that all penalties are judgement calls, but I think certain penalties could be categorized easily as reviewable, such as a muffed punt.

[rkmsuf]

Way too many penalties in the NFL as it is. The last thing we need is more replay.

Every single kickoff and punt has a penalty. Every time there is a big play you have to pray there is no flag.

I think it's a big problem the way they call the games now. Hopefully they address this in the offseason but I doubt it. NFL is as big as ever.