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MacroGuru
10-20-2005, 03:06 PM
On the news this morning they had a report that a 13 year old girl and a 12 year old boy were both charged with Child Sex Abuse......for having sex with each other.....well, the girl ended up getting pregnant...the case is in court.....

Now for me, that is overkill....let me find an article on it though...

http://www.standard.net/standard/65662/



Court asked to rule on teen sex


Thursday, October 20, 2005


By Tim Gurrister
Standard-Examiner staff
[email protected] ([email protected])






The Utah Court of Appeals was asked Wednesday to rule on the legality of a case of underage sex in Ogden. Very underage.



The case involves a 13-year-old girl and a 12-year-old boy, each considered both a perpetrator and a victim. The two had sex together several times. A child resulted from the intercourse and the girl, now 14, kept the baby.



Both were charged last fall with sexual abuse of a minor, a second-degree felony, in 2nd District Juvenile Court in Ogden. They were both eventually convicted.



The problem for defense attorney Randy Richards, who is appealing the girl's conviction, is that state law doesn't fully address sexual relations between participants that young. He claims his client has been treated unfairly as a result.



By statute, no one under the age of 14 is considered capable of consenting to sex, he said, so even though the two had intercourse willingly, it amounts to statutory rape because of their age.



But the law becomes uneven after that, Richards argues, raising the question of just how illegal was the behavior of his client, as well as her victim and co-defendant.



For two 14-year-olds to engage in sex in Utah is only a class B misdemeanor, he said. It becomes a third-degree felony if one participant is four or more years older than the other.



For 16- and 17-year-olds, intercourse is illegal only if one participant is 10 years older than the other, he said.



And Utah still has laws on the books, which haven't been enforced in 50 years, Richards said, that make adultery and any kind of fornication illegal, but only a class B misdemeanor.



His client, however, stands convicted of a second-degree felony.



That, Richards argues, is a violation of the Fourteenth Amendment guarantee of equal protection under the law.



"I don't think the Legislature ever contemplated a 12-year-old and a 13-year-old having sex," Richards said. "This is Utah."



The boy, he said, has apparently not appealed his conviction.



Richards argued his motion before the Utah Court of Appeals Wednesday morning, seeking dismissal of Juvenile Court Judge Michael Andrus' conviction of his client or a reduction of the charge.



The case was reported to authorities by a doctor during the girl's pregnancy, Richards said.



Richards worries that any violation of her probation, which could extend another seven years, could result in her having her child taken away from her.



"For now she has a juvenile felony record," he said.



He expects a decision within a few months from the three members of the seven-member Court of Appeals who sat for Wednesday's oral arguments. An assistant Utah attorney general argued the state's case.



Efforts to reach prosecutors for comment were unsuccessful Wednesday afternoon.



Richards teaches a class in constitutional law at Ogden High School, and he brought about a dozen of his students along for Wednesday's appellate session.



"It's a crazy case. And a good example of the issues under the equal protection of the law guarantees. I can't believe there wasn't another way to handle this case," he said.

vtbub
10-20-2005, 03:09 PM
Dear lord.

KevinNU7
10-20-2005, 03:09 PM
Jesus. Most states have had laws for situations like this laid out for like 10 years.

SackAttack
10-20-2005, 03:10 PM
"I don't think the Legislature ever contemplated a 12-year-old and a 13-year-old having sex," Richards said. "This is Utah."

I don't think those two statements necessarily square with one another.

I mean...it's Utah. What else is there to do, really?

MacroGuru
10-20-2005, 03:13 PM
I don't think those two statements necessarily square with one another.

I mean...it's Utah. What else is there to do, really?
Tip Cows.....have multiple wives :D one and the same in some areas areound here..

cuervo72
10-20-2005, 03:13 PM
I don't think those two statements necessarily square with one another.

I mean...it's Utah. What else is there to do, really?

Pray. And sing. Maybe a little door to door work. Then home for more prayer.

MacroGuru
10-20-2005, 03:15 PM
Pray. And sing. Maybe a little door to door work. Then home for more prayer.
Come to my neighborhood.....only house with the Neon sign above it that says spawn of evil lives here....Trust me...I do not fit in here....

Subby
10-20-2005, 03:17 PM
Utah has some of the best skiing in the country...I would love to live there.

Subby
10-20-2005, 03:17 PM
Plus the 12-year olds are sluts.

JediKooter
10-20-2005, 03:17 PM
Hmmm, if Utah law states that anyone under 14 is incapable of consenting to having sex, then to me, by default, they would be incapable of knowing they are breaking the law. Freaking leave those kids alone, they have enough to worry about now.

sovereignstar
10-20-2005, 03:19 PM
They should split Utah into to separate states. The southern part would be 'Cool Utah' and the northern part would be 'Uncool Utah'.

finketr
10-20-2005, 03:23 PM
Plus the 12-year olds are sluts.

no, the 12yos are studs.
the 13yos are sluts.

Raiders Army
10-20-2005, 03:25 PM
Gotta give that boy some props. He got an older girl...then again, I wonder what she looked like...no, scratch that.

MacroGuru
10-20-2005, 03:26 PM
They should split Utah into to separate states. The southern part would be 'Cool Utah' and the northern part would be 'Uncool Utah'.
Depends on what you are into....All the best skiing and hiking are in Northern Utah, all the best rock climbing, Mountain Biking and Golfing are in Southern....although it does have a good blend down there.....

Where I live, I am about 45 minutes away from everything, Skiing, Hiking, Rock Climing, Golfing, Fishing, Camping, and Hunting....

sovereignstar
10-20-2005, 03:28 PM
Yeah, I went hiking in Southern Utah a few years ago and I loved it. I ski, but only of the cross-country variety. :)

Edit: And the ride up the interstate (I-5 is it?) through the metropolis that is SLC-Provo-Ogden just about gave me a heart attack.

hukarez
10-20-2005, 03:29 PM
http://ia.imdb.com/media/imdb/01/I/01/37/12m.jpg

I've been fucking, since I was 10!

Fonzie
10-20-2005, 03:29 PM
The court has been asked to rule on teen sex - and the court has ruled in favor!

vtbub
10-20-2005, 03:30 PM
http://ia.imdb.com/media/imdb/01/I/01/37/12m.jpg

I've been fucking, since I was 10!


U live in California, home of the hot babysitter.

sterlingice
10-20-2005, 03:32 PM
Watch Jazz games?

SI

MacroGuru
10-20-2005, 03:35 PM
Yeah, I went hiking in Southern Utah a few years ago and I loved it. I ski, but only of the cross-country variety. :)

Edit: And the ride up the interstate (I-5 is it?) through the metropolis that is SLC-Provo-Ogden just about gave me a heart attack.
1-15, and that has gotten a bit wider....We added a HOV lane finally

Farrah Whitworth-Rahn
10-20-2005, 03:42 PM
Tip Cows.....have multiple wives :D one and the same in some areas areound here..
See I would never live in Utah. Only men can have multiple spouses. Why can't women have multiple husbands? It's only fair.

Young Drachma
10-20-2005, 05:03 PM
Wow...what a story. Don't the courts have better things to do?

Tekneek
10-20-2005, 05:13 PM
Apparently all the serious crimes have been stopped, so they've moved onto this.

Surtt
10-20-2005, 06:31 PM
Last year there was an article in the paper about a 14 year old girl, think she was from Duluth, MN, who took nude pictures of herself and posted them on the internet.

They charged her with child abuse.

Blade6119
10-20-2005, 06:49 PM
The youngest parents in history were a 10 year old boy and a 9 year old girl in china circa 1910...she delivered at 9 years old....sorry, random fact

Buccaneer
10-20-2005, 06:53 PM
Some of you needs to study a map of Utah better. The best way to split the state is vertically just slightly to the east of I-15. All the cool stuff would then be East Utah.

Rizon
10-20-2005, 07:38 PM
I almost got killed by a moose in Utah in the 90s.

MacroGuru
10-20-2005, 08:16 PM
Some of you needs to study a map of Utah better. The best way to split the state is vertically just slightly to the east of I-15. All the cool stuff would then be East Utah.
You are correct there....Not much to the west, except for the Bonneville Salt Flats.....

Buccaneer
10-20-2005, 09:11 PM
...and a whole bunch of Mormons.

sovereignstar
10-20-2005, 09:12 PM
So you'll just totally write off southwest Utah?

Buccaneer
10-20-2005, 09:29 PM
So you'll just totally write off southwest Utah?
Go look at a map, dude. I-15 goes nearly right to the SW corner, so east of it would still include Zion, Bryce, Angels Canyon, Cedar Breaks and where I learned to ski at Brian Head.

Lathum
10-21-2005, 02:38 AM
any thoughts about maybe holding the parents responsible?

SackAttack
10-21-2005, 02:45 AM
I think in this case if you do that, you remove the support structure for the girl who's now raising a baby of her own and either put the burden on another relative to help her do that, or else take her child away from her, which would cause far more mental traume for a girl who chose to keep her baby than letting her deal with the consequences of her own actions ever could.

Just my two cents.

Lathum
10-21-2005, 02:52 AM
I don't mean the girls parents should be responsible for her child. I mean it more along the lines of criminal charges. Lets say a 12 year old boys accidentaly kills a 13 year old girl, you can bet the boys parents would be held accountable. In my opinion the parents of both kids should have been more responsible and should know what their kids are up to.

SackAttack
10-21-2005, 02:55 AM
I don't mean the girls parents should be responsible for her child. I mean it more along the lines of criminal charges. Lets say a 12 year old boys accidentaly kills a 13 year old girl, you can bet the boys parents would be held accountable. In my opinion the parents of both kids should have been more responsible and should know what their kids are up to.

No, that's what I mean. If you press criminal charges and send her parents to jail, you've just knocked the support structure out from underneath the girl and created a bigger mess than there already was.

Parents should be informed about their children's behavior. Absolutely. But I think in this particular case having the parents face criminal charges could end up doing the children more long-term harm than has already occurred.

Lathum
10-21-2005, 03:00 AM
No, that's what I mean. If you press criminal charges and send her parents to jail, you've just knocked the support structure out from underneath the girl and created a bigger mess than there already was.

Parents should be informed about their children's behavior. Absolutely. But I think in this particular case having the parents face criminal charges could end up doing the children more long-term harm than has already occurred.
I agree but it is a lose/lose situation. The girl could lose the baby based on the criminal convictions anyway. I think the issue of overall accountability needs to come into play.

Tekneek
10-21-2005, 04:15 AM
Lets say a 12 year old boys accidentaly kills a 13 year old girl, you can bet the boys parents would be held accountable.

I don't know what happens most of the time, but I've seen some incidents similar to that in the news where the parents had no charges and the boy was "charged as an adult." That's another thing I have a problem with.

Butter
10-21-2005, 07:20 AM
I almost got killed by a moose in Utah in the 90s.

A moose once bit my sister....

Wolfpack
10-21-2005, 09:23 AM
I almost got killed by a moose in Utah in the 90s.

"I can't figure out why I went to Utah for the morning."

sachmo71
10-21-2005, 09:50 AM
A moose once bit my sister....


I love to bite mousse.

gi
10-21-2005, 10:10 AM
A moose once bit my sister....
I think you need to be sacked.

MalcPow
10-21-2005, 10:16 AM
Hmmm, if Utah law states that anyone under 14 is incapable of consenting to having sex, then to me, by default, they would be incapable of knowing they are breaking the law. Freaking leave those kids alone, they have enough to worry about now.

This is pretty much it for me as well. Most of the time the law only holds someone accountable if they meet some reasonable "normal standard." Here the law seems to say they don't meet that standard, but they're being held to it anyway. Unless Utah has some wild precedents this should be thrown out the window.

ntndeacon
10-21-2005, 11:13 AM
A moose once bit my sister....
Mind You Moose bites can be quite Nasty

sterlingice
10-21-2005, 12:17 PM
I think you need to be sacked.
Those responsible for his sacking need to be sacked.

SI

Wolfpack
10-21-2005, 12:41 PM
The rest of this thread will be completed in an entirely different style at great expense and at the last minute.