Werewolf XVII: Return of the Wolves

[Raiders Army]

That said...I'm not saying you should treat me with kid gloves or anything! I think you should believe me, as long as no one else claims to be the herbalist! If someone does claim it, there's a decision to be made. But don't let the wolves get the herbalist without showing themselves!
Post #206. Bolded part mine. I find it highly disconcerting that he says this since he looks like he's going to be lynched at that point. I may be looking for something out of nothing though.

I have to take my daughter to karate and then I'm pretty much out for the night. Good luck everyone. I have a really bad feeling that maybe RPI and Pass are villagers and the wolves are just laughing right now.

That being said, I agree with McSweeny's earlier logic of Pass is pretty much useless to us now as a herbalist if it's true, so I'm sticking with that.

[Raiders Army]

Dola, forgot to bold:

But don't let the wolves get the herbalist without showing themselves!

[Poli]

Checking in, man there's a lot to read and I simply don't have the time to read it while here on my roomie's pc. Hopefully, cross your fingers, I'll have my pc up later today.

[pennywisesb]

Well, from past experiences in games, RPI is always pushing really hard at the beginning of games with absolutely no evidence at all. I think thats just the way he plays. I think at this point that one of the two (Pass and RPI) is probably a wolf, but I'm kinda with RA on this one in thinking it'd be alittle ridiculous to draw this much attention on himself if he were a wolf (RPI). I'm really confused at this point. :confused:

[SnDvls]

so many opinins. I think we're barking up the wrong tree with both Pass & RPI. Like has been said before the wolves are just loving this right now. Being a past baddie, I know when stuff like this happened we just sat back and watched. My gut says they're both good. I have to stick w/ SirFozzie only because he hasn't posted much after acussing me of the same.

I'm out for the night. Let's hope we get a wolf and my gut is wrong on this one.

[Barkeep49]

I agree with SnDVls.

I believe Pass. Based on what I've seen of his gameplay this is consistent with how he's played. I also think that having him around for a Vizzini's Cup scenerio with the wolves is good for the villagers. I support his move.

I also believe that RPI is innocent. I think he's an aggressive player and truly believes Pass is guilty.

And so I'm going to vote for neither. That said I don't really have a good feel for anyone else. However, I think it's MORE of a mistake to vote for someone who I am confident about being good. Looking around there's only one other person with votes at this point so that's what I'm doing. I don't think I'm right, but I feel better about it than RPI and Pass.

UNVOTE PASSACAGALIA

VOTE MCSWEENY

[st.cronin]

so many opinins. I think we're barking up the wrong tree with both Pass & RPI. Like has been said before the wolves are just loving this right now. Being a past baddie, I know when stuff like this happened we just sat back and watched. My gut says they're both good. I have to stick w/ SirFozzie only because he hasn't posted much after acussing me of the same.

I'm out for the night. Let's hope we get a wolf and my gut is wrong on this one.

sold

UNVOTE PASSACAGLIA


VOTE SIRFOZZIE

[McSweeny]

doesn't Fozzie work all night? could that be why he's been so silent?

[Barkeep49]

Anyone have a vote count? I'm not really sold on McSweeny and if there looks like a different viable third contender for votes emerging I'd like to through my vote that away.

[Blade6119]

Im heading out and will be gone until about an hour after vote deadline...im sticking on pass, best of luck to the group in a suddenly wide open vote

[pennywisesb]

UNVOTE ARDENT ENTHUSIEST

At this point my vote was worthless. I'm going to wait until more info is brought forth at this point before casting a vote. Personally, I don't think Pass would pretend to be the herbalist if he really wasn't....

[Passacaglia]

Dola, forgot to bold:

But don't let the wolves get the herbalist without showing themselves!

I'm not sure what's so disconcerting about this. I try to present things objectively, as I think that will help my case. However, in that case, I spoke from my viewpoint, as the herbalist. If I'm not going to be believed, at least let me not be believed by having someone else say they're the herbalist!

[st.cronin]

rule clarification

If a wolf votes, his vote will not count, right? So we can at least somewhat logically reverse-vote count to figure out who may or may not be a wolf? Is that how this works?

[Passacaglia]

rule clarification

If a wolf votes, his vote will not count, right? So we can at least somewhat logically reverse-vote count to figure out who may or may not be a wolf? Is that how this works?

Wolf votes count. If they didn't count, it would be easier to find out who's a wolf.

[Passacaglia]

Here's my vote count:

SNDVLS -- SirFozzie
Pennywiseb -- ardent
PASSACAGLIA -- RPI, RA, Blade
McSweeny -- kingfc22, dubb, Barkeep
RPI-FAN -- MrW, Sack, Pass
SirFozzie -- st.cronin

Still anyone's lynching.

EDITED because Blade voted me as just PASS, not PASSACAGLIA, and I had a separate row for that. Just in case I have the secret 'lawyer' role, who can nitpick his way out of a lynching!

[Passacaglia]

so we've got a handfull of guys trying to deflect votes from Pass and some guys trying to deflect votes from RPI.

i don't know what the hell is really going on

That's the fun of werewolf!
:)

[dubb93]

Well, I did tend to believe Pass with his first reveal, although painting a scenario where he is a wolf, and a brilliant one at that here:

Option B -- I'm a wolf, trying to out the herbalist. Not a bad ploy, since I was already on the block before this, and I might as well try to get something out of it. And I went for a mild target -- I mean, I know the seer won't speak up if I claim I'm the seer.

Why would Pass even present that argument? Its something I've NEVER done when I've been on the block, I always deny, deny, deny. I never admit to seeing where the other camp is coming from, but that is exactly what Pass did here, and he even admitted the herbalist is a mild target.
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I firmly believe that RPI is innocent. There is no way a wolf would push this hard on day one. There is no point to it. If Pass is innocent RPI is pretty well dead, and if RPI was a wolf he would know if Pass was a wolf or not. I can't even think of a way where RPI is a wolf, although.....

McSweeny has been very fishy, jumping his vote all around and changing his mind. Appears he tried to jump on RPI's side and then when RPI's side became the losing side he switched his vote to him. Mcsweeny has been acting crazy today and my vote isn't going to be changed.

[dubb93]

so if Pass does get lynched tonight and turns out to be the herbalist, that means that RPI will be following him to the gallows tomorrow. One of the two will turn out to be a wolf right?

Wrong, there is just as good of a chance that both are innocent than there are that 1 is the wolf. If Pass turns out to be the herbalist then RPI is innocent. He's a vetern, and wouldn't be stupid enough to push this hard to lynch an "outted" herbalist on day 1 if he were a wolf. Your thought process has been all over today, passing blame from person to person depending on the bandwagon.

[McSweeny]

so when is the deadline?

[Poli]

UNVOTE ARDENT ENTHUSIEST

At this point my vote was worthless. I'm going to wait until more info is brought forth at this point before casting a vote. Personally, I don't think Pass would pretend to be the herbalist if he really wasn't....

You, sir, are a gentleman. That said, I'm at least temporarily online here on my computer. I don't know much about routers, but I assume I'm going to need one or something. I suppose I should just call Comcast and tell them to hook me up.

[dubb93]

8:07 here right now, he said the deadline was 9, although I'm not real sure what time zone we are on now, or what time zone the deadline was based on.

[Passacaglia]

He said 9 eastern. So we've got less than an hour.

[McSweeny]

ok so it looks like it's going to be Passacaglia, RPI, or myself

-I have no idea if Pass or RPI is a wolf, but i'd like to think that one of them is a wolf.
-I know i'm not a wolf and i was just trying to protect myself earlier this evening when it looked like i had my neck in the noose. It looks like that respite was only temporary...
-RPI came on too strong with his accusations
-Pass claimed to be the herbalist

is this all we have to go on? is it coin-flip time?

[hoopsguy]

I thought I would have a little time between work and heading out tonight to catch up on the action but the weather has slammed that window shut. Good luck to everyone tonight/tomorrow. I hope to be around before the deadline and in time to see where today's actions have taken us.

[Poli]

This weather here in Chicago sucks.

[SirFozzie]

so many opinins. I think we're barking up the wrong tree with both Pass & RPI. Like has been said before the wolves are just loving this right now. Being a past baddie, I know when stuff like this happened we just sat back and watched. My gut says they're both good. I have to stick w/ SirFozzie only because he hasn't posted much after acussing me of the same.

I'm out for the night. Let's hope we get a wolf and my gut is wrong on this one.

*laughs* I was asleep. I had my drug test today for my new job.. I go to work, I come home, then go to the oral surgeon.

But if it makes you feel better..

UNVOTE SNDVLS

VOTE PASSACAGLIA

Although I do note that RPI is pushing way strong here. Perhaps a wolf v wolf fight (one of them is the cunning wolf?) that conclusively "Clears" one in our eyes, to have the Cunning Wolf hide in our midst.

[Blade6119]

So we still have another hour becuase i just got back?...i hate how Phoenix switches time zones, i never know my relation to east coast time

[SirFozzie]

Blade: It's 8:30 here on the east coast.

[Blade6119]

Although I do note that RPI is pushing way strong here. Perhaps a wolf v wolf fight (one of them is the cunning wolf?) that conclusively "Clears" one in our eyes, to have the Cunning Wolf hide in our midst.

I worry about this too, but the seer should clear that up eventually...my bet is one wolf is in the heat of the argument and and one has no one looking at him...the other one or two are making minor comments here or there...i still say take a shot on pass since this whole situation has been iffy

PING NEON: Does the cunning wolf appear to the seer as a villager too or just post mortem??

Also, people have said 4 wolves, but i feel strongly its no more then 3 right now...The cursed trait could add to their numbers, and neon said their could be more then one cursed indivdiual

[RPI-Fan]

The reason I'm "pushing this hard" is because it's the first time we have anything near concrete evidence of a wolf on Day 1. This is a rare opportunity and we MUST carpe diem.

Given the thought of most people that there's a 50/50 shot Pass is a wolf, that is about a 40-45% better chance than we ever have on Day 1!!!

[RPI-Fan]

He's done this before and ended up being a wolf, I think. Modus operandi?

UNVOTE HOOPSGUY

VOTE RPI-FAN

Nope. The one time I was a wolf I played the exact OPPOSITE way -- nobody ever brought up my name in the wolf discussion until at least one week into the game!

The only other game I ever played, I was certainly an agressive villager, and I like to think that near the end it ended up with us having pretty much total domination over the wolves before they forfeited.

[RPI-Fan]

Alright, it's a shame I have to post a "defense", but I guess I might as well:

Do you think I would call Pass's play "dumb" to claim herbalist (whether or not he actually is) and then go around screaming bloody murder that he's the wolf? The ONLY sense in doing so, as someone mentioned, is in some kind of wolf-wolf tandem play, and that simply isn't the case here. I'm not that smart -- I just call it like I see it, and right now I see that Pass has a very good chance of being the wolf.

[Blade6119]

By my count pass has 4 and mc and rpi have 3...whatever happens we cant have a tie, as the duke has to decide and in the past neon reveals who the duke is to break the tie...i cant stress no matter who it is, we must decide on someone...no tie

[Passacaglia]

Okay. I'll back off RPI-Fan for a while.

UNVOTE RPI-FAN

VOTE MCSWEENY

[McSweeny]

now it looks like a two horse race

VOTE PASSACAGLIA

[Blade6119]

Okay. I'll back off RPI-Fan for a while.

UNVOTE RPI-FAN

VOTE MCSWEENY

LOL, your not doing it to back off rpi...your doing it to create a fucking tie THE EXACT POST AFTER I SAY WE CANT HAVE A TIE!!!!.... :mad:

[Blade6119]

now it looks like a two horse race

VOTE PASSACAGLIA

dola, thank you for breaking the tie....lol, 5 minutes left...anyone else want to screw with my heart?

[RPI-Fan]

LOL, your not doing it to back off rpi...your doing it to create a fucking tie THE EXACT POST AFTER I SAY WE CANT HAVE A TIE!!!!.... :mad:

I agree it's a strategic wolf play, but in his defense his vote was changed exactly at the same time as your post.

I do agree with you that a tie would not be good here.

[st.cronin]

...anyone else want to screw with my heart?

i want to see other people

[Blade6119]

i want to see other people

FINE!! i was going to dump your ass tomorrow anyways!!

i had it all planned (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~fof/forums/showthread.php?t=19751)

[Blade6119]

What about the possibility of not lynching anyone on Day 1?

Haven't really let the consequences run through my mind, but I'm not seeing tons of negatives to it, necessarily.

i do find it odd, of course i see it post deadline when looking over the thread, that he first pushed for no lynch....then goes over kill to lynch the herbalist(i havent seen results, so dont know if he is or isnt)...seems really odd now that i see both of those pieces...i think i might have made the wrong call, dont know....i hate day 1

[McSweeny]

well that's that

i barely survived

[Blade6119]

During the Day Phase, everyone votes to lynch one player. In case of a tie, the player who got his first vote last will be lynched.

I didn't include that in the list of common Day 1 concepts because it didn't apply to this one. There are some games that require a certain number of votes to lynch someone, but it sounds like this one would invoke a lynch even if there was a 1-1 tie with everyone else abstaining.

With that in mind, not voting is generally bad form. Those voting patterns are important information later in the game when running "villager or wolf" scenarios.

My duke theory was also wrong...that is how a tie is decided per the rules...thank you to hoops for catching that back on page 2

[RPI-Fan]

i do find it odd, of course i see it post deadline when looking over the thread, that he first pushed for no lynch....then goes over kill to lynch the herbalist(i havent seen results, so dont know if he is or isnt)...seems really odd now that i see both of those pieces...i think i might have made the wrong call, dont know....i hate day 1

I wasn't "pushing" for no lynch... it was something I hadn't ever seen discussed in a WW game before (granted, I've only played in and even read just a handful of them), and thought it was worth putting on the table.

And if you made the wrong call, it's because it was villager vs. villager... I'm not a wolf.

[Blade6119]

Late villager checking in.

havent heared anything from king...something to watch for in the next few rounds

NOTE: Im reviewing all the pages and posting my thoughts

[Blade6119]

That's why I figure there has to be four wolves, Foz.

Because in the event that two werewolves were paired as lovers and one was lynched, the other would die. With two wolves, that ends the game instantly, and with three, that leaves only one. It would be a significant setback for them.

So I gotta figure we're dealing with probably four. That way if the unexpected does happen, there's still two wolves for us to root out.

I still say we have 3, due to the cursed trait which at least one if not more villagers have...its like the dons son, could be 4-5 if they get them, but right now id bet on 3

[Blade6119]

I'm bummed to see that there hasn't been any real conversation up to this point. I realize that first day sucks, but if we don't get any kind of conversation going then we end up 100% random (instead of 80-90% random, maybe?) on our lynch selection. Which makes it easier to hide a vote - huge advantage to wolves.

I'm hoping to be back online later this afternoon for a decent block of time prior to the vote.

As a general note, I know that several of us (me included) posted about availability issues for today and onwards. I would be cautious as the game moves on if people continue to have last-minute issues preventing them from contributing to the conversation. There have been several cases of wolves trying to keep a low-profile by posting about their real life commitments keeping them from contributing as much as they might like. This isn't meant to try and weed out the people who have activities beyond our message board, but make sure to hold people accountable for their votes (or lack thereof) throughout the game. Villagers generally want to play an active role in their team winning, not let the other villagers figure it out for them.

Ill echo this as its a good thought...just because someone says they have to go to X place at Y time, doesnt mean they arent a wolf just keeping a low profile

[Blade6119]

I think Blade's post asking Neon for clarifications is very suspicious, but I don't want to spread the votes around right now. Whether or not he's a wolf, I like his reasoning on his vote.

Vote Passacaglia

Care to elaborate on what you found suspicious about it(yes, im asking you to draw up reasons why im bad)...id be interested in why my tryign to better understand a new role is fishy?

[Blade6119]

Here is the next thought - if someone else is the herbalist should they come forward and condemn Pass directly or try to be subtle about it? I think a one-to-one trade is probably worth it, but it would be even better to succeed in guiding the group to hang the fake herbalist while maintaining their secrecy. I think this would be very hard to do but would stand up and applaud at the end of the game if someone does pull that off.

I dont love hoops quietly pushing to get the real herbalist out of the shadows(if pass wasnt it)...could be nothing, but hoops is very smart and this would be a subtle way to push it that way

[SirFozzie]

My quick thoughts: No matter what happens, I think we need the seer to check out RPI tonight. UNLESS Neon states that the seer cannot detect the Cunning Wolf.

[Passacaglia]

You guys ever play Worms? A friend of mine had this thing where all hiw worms would have a voice like James Brown. Whenever one of his worms died, the worm would say, "I'm dead!"

"I'm dead!"

[Blade6119]

Exactly. The positives he can offer (if he is the herbalist) at this point are negligible, so we'll say zero. The odds of this, we'll say, are 70% (VERY generous, I think).

What the hell don't you get? If you managed to keep yourself alive for just a couple days you become EXTREMELY valuable!!!

edit: Assuming you're telling the truth, of course. (which I don't think you are)

Pass mentioned this, but i find it odd to hear him say the role is now useless and its super important...

[RPI-Fan]

Pass mentioned this, but i find it odd to hear him say the role is now useless and its super important...

It's important if you don't ruin it on the first day from a lazy, unthoughtful play.

[Barkeep49]

The most suspensful time of the day for me is always between the end of voting and the results. At least Blade is give us something interesting to read in the interim.

[Blade6119]

It's important if you don't ruin it on the first day from a lazy, unthoughtful play.

fair enough...just making comments, not trying to attack you(even if most are about you)...no worries

[RPI-Fan]

My quick thoughts: No matter what happens, I think we need the seer to check out RPI tonight. UNLESS Neon states that the seer cannot detect the Cunning Wolf.

Check me out if you want, but I'd rather see the seer look at someone who actually has a chance of being a wolf.

I have a shortlist right now (4-5 people) that I think contains a couple of wolves, but don't think it'd do a heck of a lot of good to reveal that list and exactly why I feel the way I do, right now.

[RPI-Fan]

The most suspensful time of the day for me is always between the end of voting and the results. At least Blade is give us something interesting to read in the interim.

I agree, especially on the game where the role of overnight kills was not revealed (so lynching was ever so important).

[Blade6119]

well let's see

if pass is a werewolf, lynching him is a great thing

if he is the herbalist he's now pretty much useless and will be picked off by the wolves pretty quickly

if he's a villager just trying to save himself... well i'm not sure what to think about that possibility


anyway, it seems lynching him at this point wouldn't be such a terrible thing

While i was reading, numerous posts by this fellow seemed odd...i dont really want to re-read the first 5 pages again to get them all, but he just seemed to always be getting someone else lynched...it wasnt soo much a matter of facts, but who had the momentum against them at the time...he supported whatever the popular idea was at the time, cast the deciding vote against pass(though it could have been self-preservation), and just generally seemed to be kill happy...not much insight, but a lot of instigating

[McSweeny]

well to be fair the vote for Pass was to keep myself alive for at least another day

[Blade6119]

Fair enough - I wasn't willing to assume that a villager would value self-preservation above team success. But you are correct in indicating that this may not be a universal set of ethics.

One more question: do people generally think we are better off without Passacaglia at this point even if he is the herbalist? The herbalist is a significant weapon against the wolves. Like or hate his play up to this point, if he is in fact the herbalist then he does have the ability to protect tonight if we don't lynch him. And repeat every night that he stays alive.

Another way of asking the same question - are people optimistic about our chances of rooting out three wolves without a herbalist and with three sets of lovers dying in tandem?

Finally, why do I have the feeling that I'm walking down the same path I did defending the wolf digamma a few games back (was that Village of the Damned?) and having to defend myself like crazy for the rest of the game?

If the group is satisfied with this course of action, and feels like the above points are not applicable/salient/whatever then I'll join in the bandwagon. AE is certainly not my leading suspect at this point.

Another suspicious but subtle post by hoops...he starts by saying hes a villager working for the team(in more words), then he discusses if its really bad at all to kill the herbalist, but the final part is the kicker...he says he will switch to pass and is worried hes defending a wolf....if pass is bad, hoops could be someone to look at closely

[Blade6119]

cast the deciding vote against pass(though it could have been self-preservation)

well to be fair the vote for Pass was to keep myself alive for at least another day

....noted that, but im glad you felt it important to repeat that point

[McSweeny]

hahaha

i was just confirming your speculation

[Blade6119]

For the record, when the lynch happens, I'd like someone to make a note that RPI-Fan was by far the most against me.

while rereading this i got a really bad thought in my head...if pass comes up as villager(possible), pass might have been the decieving wolf and looks to clear a fellow wolf as he dies...at the time of the post, pass was up like 4 votes on anyone else...

sorry rpi, but since he was attacking you your the center of a lot of these thoughts

[Blade6119]

i pretty much agree with this

Another one i came across, it was in regards to the seer looking at RPI tonight regardless of what happens...another situation of mc trying to put attention on anyone but him

[Blade6119]

the thing is, Pass can protect himself tonight. The wolves will figure that's what he'll do and they'll pick someone else off. After that, Pass has to protect someone else and the wolves will take him out then.

in other words, pass as a herbalist is really of no value to us

DOLA, another

[Blade6119]

I'm guessing that if Pass is hung as the herbalist that the seer will not need to intervene to hang RPI, but might consider exerting influence to save him if it turns out he is a villager.

I think I'm getting a little bit ahead of myself on some of these "what if" scenarios. But I don't have the luxury of posting them tonight because I'm out of the mix for the next 24-30 hours. So I'm trying to put out my thoughts now and hope to come back to a good situation Thursday night.

Hoops again subtly(spelling?) looking to out a key villager role

[SirFozzie]

That's why I said no matter what, Blade, whoever the seer is has to check RPI tonight.

[RPI-Fan]

while rereading this i got a really bad thought in my head...if pass comes up as villager(possible), pass might have been the decieving wolf and looks to clear a fellow wolf as he dies...at the time of the post, pass was up like 4 votes on anyone else...

sorry rpi, but since he was attacking you your the center of a lot of these thoughts

That's fine. That's why immediately after that post I screamed wolf, because his game has been so obvious the whole time.

(I realize that this looks like a wolf play, setting myself up to claim he's the cunning villager). This shouldn't be an issue, though, because as Pass mentioned he's either the herbalist or the wolf, not a regular villager.

[Blade6119]

well i just read through all the posts after pass claimed to be the herbalist. I'm starting to agree that RPI did come on waaay to strong. Notice the post where i just tossed out the various scenarios. Everyone seemed to be discussing what to do and RPI jumps on my post and starts hollering "Lynch him! Lynch him!"

so now that i've rationalized it a bit:

UNVOTE PASSACAGLIA

VOTE RPI-FAN

Immediatly after momentum shifted to rpi and people started to vote for him

[McSweeny]

so does this mean that i'm a wolf, after self preservation, or just playing a brilliant game :)

[Blade6119]

Well, I did tend to believe Pass with his first reveal, although painting a scenario where he is a wolf, and a brilliant one at that here:



Why would Pass even present that argument? Its something I've NEVER done when I've been on the block, I always deny, deny, deny. I never admit to seeing where the other camp is coming from, but that is exactly what Pass did here, and he even admitted the herbalist is a mild target.
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I firmly believe that RPI is innocent. There is no way a wolf would push this hard on day one. There is no point to it. If Pass is innocent RPI is pretty well dead, and if RPI was a wolf he would know if Pass was a wolf or not. I can't even think of a way where RPI is a wolf, although.....

McSweeny has been very fishy, jumping his vote all around and changing his mind. Appears he tried to jump on RPI's side and then when RPI's side became the losing side he switched his vote to him. Mcsweeny has been acting crazy today and my vote isn't going to be changed.

Wrong, there is just as good of a chance that both are innocent than there are that 1 is the wolf. If Pass turns out to be the herbalist then RPI is innocent. He's a vetern, and wouldn't be stupid enough to push this hard to lynch an "outted" herbalist on day 1 if he were a wolf. Your thought process has been all over today, passing blame from person to person depending on the bandwagon.

So far i like dubbs analysis...he seems to be on the same track as i am...

[SirFozzie]

anyone in favor of lynching Neon Chaos? :D

[Barkeep49]

So as I read the rules we don't find out info for the nightime kill. Is that correct? If so I'm feeling a little better about Pass. If he comes up, as I suspect, as the herbalist, I think we'll have some excellent information that we wouldn't necessarily have had if he was a night time kill.

[Blade6119]

so does this mean that i'm a wolf, after self preservation, or just playing a brilliant game :)

I have no idea, and barring a seer reveal on you i wont until you die or game is over...im just throwing out tons of little thoughts for discussion...so far its just been people defending my thoughts...im just sharing my thoughts for the good of the group

[Blade6119]

anyone in favor of lynching Neon Chaos? :D

he died last night, fyi...i understand the joke, but the wolves killed him night 0 according to him

[Blade6119]

AND IM DONE WITH MY THOUGHTS FOR NOW....so ya...

[SirFozzie]

I have no idea, and barring a seer reveal on you i wont until you die or game is over...im just throwing out tons of little thoughts for discussion...so far its just been people defending my thoughts...im just sharing my thoughts for the good of the group

Blade, the last time you shared your thoughts with the group, you were a known vampire, doing it at my order so I could hide as the Master Vampire.

Are you sure you want to bring up those memories for everyone? :D :D :D

(Just teasing)

[st.cronin]

If we don't know who the seer is, how do we know what he sees? And what about the witness? These are, like the herbalist, meant to be secret roles? So if somebody says "I am the seer and I saw such and such..." we don't actually know that he is the seer, do we?

I feel so confuzzled.

[Poli]

Seems like we may have the most interesting discussion on the first day(s) since I started playing.

[Blade6119]

Blade, the last time you shared your thoughts with the group, you were a known vampire, doing it at my order so I could hide as the Master Vampire.

Are you sure you want to bring up those memories for everyone? :D :D :D

(Just teasing)

LOL, that was a fun game...we covered your tracks soo well...but at the same time, my thoughts were meant as jokes and i was like "IM A VAMPIRE AND YOU CANT KILL ME!! HAHAHAHAHA"...im not really doing that right now....i dont think ;) :p :D

[Blade6119]

If we don't know who the seer is, how do we know what he sees? And what about the witness? These are, like the herbalist, meant to be secret roles? So if somebody says "I am the seer and I saw such and such..." we don't actually know that he is the seer, do we?

I feel so confuzzled.

No we wont, and i hope for our sake we dont find out who it is till late in the game...we wont know whatt the seer sees unless he decides to tell us, but it would be stupid to reveal himself right now

[Blade6119]

Seems like we may have the most interesting discussion on the first day(s) since I started playing.

I think its due to the fact we have 3 days before the first lynch, and we started the voting before night zero even happened...

oh, and its the first game since the break

[SirFozzie]

st.cronin: Usually the seer will drop cryptic hints if he detects a wolf early on.. hoping that the villagers will pick up on it, and the wolves won't.

If the #'s are favorable, that revealing a wolf will tip the balance, he may drop all pretense and say "Guys.. this is what I saw on Night 1, Night 2, and last night I viewed X and he is a wolf.." The Wolves WILL get him, but reducing the amount of wolves helps, and you can sometimes track the other wolves by seeing who votes in a block with that wolf.

Normally.. if the "seer" names a villager.. (could always be the cunning wolf, of course), the "seer" knows that the next name for the lynching will be him. So it's subtle at times, and quite blatant others, but usually, if you go blatant, you're in the end stages of a game, and you're going to go either way.

The witness should tell everyone the second he sees a wolf kill.. he only gets to use it once, and if he sees a kill, he's just a normal villager from that point on.. so if he dies before he can tell.. he's become a wasted special villager ability.

[Barkeep49]

Seems like we may have the most interesting discussion on the first day(s) since I started playing.
I agree 100% and was happy how game oriented it was. I think we've laid a good ground work for future success rather than hurt feelings :).

If we don't know who the seer is, how do we know what he sees? And what about the witness? These are, like the herbalist, meant to be secret roles? So if somebody says "I am the seer and I saw such and such..." we don't actually know that he is the seer, do we?

I feel so confuzzled.

That's the whole game. Trying to discern fact from fiction. It's what makes it like virtual crack for some of us since things can turn on the smallest of clues.

[Neon_Chaos]

I have the votes as follows (went through it twice)

Passacaglia - RPI-Fan, Raiders Army, Sir Fozzie, McSweeny
McSweeny - dubb93, Barkeep49, Passacaglia
SirFozzie - SnDvls, st.cronin
RPI-Fan - Mr. Wednesday, Sack Attack
ardent enthusiast - hoopsguy

no votes (I warned you guys twice about the vote format, bold and all caps): Blade6119 (invalid vote format), kingfc22 (invalid vote format), pennywisesb

The vote is in, and you decide to take Passacaglia and bind his arms and legs together. He struggles and starts begging for his life. He pleads to you that he can protect you from the wolves, that he is a herbalist of the highest order. You do not listen. You string him up, tie a noose around his neck and take him to the small village barn. You swing the rope over a ledge and pull. Passacaglia's body is hoisted up in the air, he thrashes for a few moments, before breathing his last.

You quickly search his belongings. There are several books about herbology, and some herbs. Of course, you would not know what one herb did from the other. You realize what you have done, and now fear ever more what will happen tongiht.

Passacaglia was the Herbalist!

It is now Night (1). Send in your night actions, please.

Player List:
SackAttack
st.cronin
kingfc22
Raiders Army
Passacaglia - Herbalist, lynched Day 1.
hoopsguy
RPI-Fan
ardent enthusiast
pennywisesb
SnDvls
McSweeny
Mr. Wednesday
SirFozzie
dubb93
Barkeep49

[Blade6119]

that kinda what i expected after the reading i did post deadline...fun...

[st.cronin]

pffffffffft

[SirFozzie]

Well, fuck..

Ok.. RPI.. you do know what this means, right?

[RPI-Fan]

Well, fuck..

Ok.. RPI.. you do know what this means, right?

Kill me if you want. Passacaglia made a play screaming wolf, so as a villager our best play was to go get him.

You can come get me blindly if you want, but it's not going to do us any good. I think the wolves know I do have a pretty good read on them anyways, so I doubt I'll make it through the nite.

[Neon_Chaos]

Last night, you heard screams.... screams of terror.

You wake up, and look around. Noone is missing. You're not sure if that is a good thing, or a bad thing.

What you are sure of, however, is that you must lynch someone today.

It is now Day (2), votes are due at 8 PM EST.

[dubb93]

You can come get me blindly if you want, but it's not going to do us any good. I think the wolves know I do have a pretty good read on them anyways, so I doubt I'll make it through the nite.

If you have a good read on them and are think you are going to die tonight why don't you share your insights with the group.

[dubb93]

Last night, you heard screams.... screams of terror.

You wake up, and look around. Noone is missing. You're not sure if that is a good thing, or a bad thing.

What you are sure of, however, is that you must lynch someone today.

It is now Day (2), votes are due at 8 PM EST.

It appears we have another wolf among us. My guess is the cursed was hit.

[McSweeny]

could have been the Blessed

[st.cronin]

Well, I may as well reveal myself. I saw SnDvls turn into a wolf. I used my one-time witness ability last night, and that is what I saw. I assume we should lynch him today ... can't see the point in lynching anybody else.

VOTE SNDVLS

[JonInMiddleGA]

One of these days I'm gonna play in one of these things instead of kibbutzing ... and that ought to be a downright fascinating experience all the way 'round ;)

[SirFozzie]

Well now..we're starting early now with it, aren't we..

Interesting..

apparently st.cronin is taking my advice, or he's trying to poison the witness well.

[SirFozzie]

I don't see how it would help a newbie to play the witness card when we had a custom made target in RPI...

So, unless I hear differently..

VOTE SNDVLS

[RPI-Fan]

SnDvls was someone I thought was a wolf (which was obviously wrong, as he would have been thinking he was a villager all today), but it's good enough for me, certainly.

VOTE SNDVLS

[Blade6119]

Since hes sooo new and you told him too, im inclined to believe him....either that or the rook plays a good rook...odd though is that usually the witness sees one of the attackers, not the victim...but neon does like to switch things up...either way

VOTE SNDVLS

[st.cronin]

Well now..we're starting early now with it, aren't we..

Interesting..

apparently st.cronin is taking my advice, or he's trying to poison the witness well.

I used my one-time look on the first night, figuring I should use it before getting either eaten or lynched. Since I no longer have the ability, I assume I should just come out and say I saw such and such.

Really, the only question I have is does it make any sense to lynch anybody other than SnDvls.

[RPI-Fan]

Wait just a minute here...

Witness - As a one-time skill, you may choose to view the killing of an innocent during the night. If noone is killed, then you waste your view.

Either, the rules are miswritten, or st.cronin is pulling one over on us.

No one was killed last night, so the view was wasted.

UNVOTE SNDVLS

VOTE ST.CRONIN

[st.cronin]

Since hes sooo new and you told him too, im inclined to believe him....either that or the rook plays a good rook...odd though is that usually the witness sees one of the attackers, not the victim...but neon does like to switch things up...either way

VOTE SNDVLS

I did see the attacker, I think. I saw no victim.

[Blade6119]

Interesting....very interesting....I say we kill sundvls, and if hes bad, RPI fan goes next

[SirFozzie]

Hmm..

Could it be that SNDVLS is not the cursed, but the attacker? Be it that way.. I gotta think about this, what happens here..

UNVOTE SNDVLS (butI'm still leaning heavy towards him)

[SirFozzie]

Interesting....very interesting....I say we kill sundvls, and if hes bad, RPI fan goes next

For pointing out a legitimate question about the rules, Blade? what if he's good? SNDVLS could always be the cunning wolf..

[RPI-Fan]

Interesting....very interesting....I say we kill sundvls, and if hes bad, RPI fan goes next

For now, I trust Neon_Chaos' rules more than st.cronin.

Either way, I think we make out alright tomorrow, since if N_C doesn't clear anything up, we know st.cronin is lying.

Neon_Chaos: Just want to confirm -- the rules are AS WRITTEN in the first post, right?

[RPI-Fan]

I don't see what the issue is right now. According to the rules, when there is no kill the witness is "wasted". I take that to mean no information was gained.

Some clarification from N_C on the role of the witness would be appreciated (and appropriate, I think).

[st.cronin]

Wait just a minute here...



Either, the rules are miswritten, or st.cronin is pulling one over on us.

No one was killed last night, so the view was wasted.

UNVOTE SNDVLS

VOTE ST.CRONIN

That could imply that whoever was attacked was 'blessed' - since blessed is given 'a second chance at life.' The wording could imply a technical kill ... either way, it would be an incredibly stupid thing to do if I were a wolf, considering the way the rules are written.

[Blade6119]

For pointing out a legitimate question about the rules, Blade? what if he's good? SNDVLS could always be the cunning wolf..

i mean if hes a wolf, he was already suspicious, and now someone claims to have witnessed a wolf and he tries to protect him with the rules....my bet is neon still treats it as a kill, just wording

[RPI-Fan]

i mean if hes a wolf, he was already suspicious, and now someone claims to have witnessed a wolf and he tries to protect him with the rules....my bet is neon still treats it as a kill, just wording

If that's the case, it's horrendously poor wording.

[SirFozzie]

The problem is, if Neon Chaos clarifies it, it will be seen as a tell for one side for the other.. I had the same issue in the X-Com game, mind you.

[Poli]

Vote Sndvls.

I'll go out on a limb and trust st.cronin. Don't let me down, Blue.

[Blade6119]

i know all too well, so he may not...i personally feel neon allowed thw witness to see an attack, it occured(be it blessed or cursed) and counted it as a kill and told the witness...my idea of the rule is he wont see anything if the herbalist protects that person, which isnt the case

[st.cronin]

i know all too well, so he may not...i personally feel neon allowed thw witness to see an attack, it occured(be it blessed or cursed) and counted it as a kill and told the witness...my idea of the rule is he wont see anything if the herbalist protects that person, which isnt the case

Or if, for some reason, the wolves don't attack. I thought the balance was that the wolves could stay hidden on a given night (to foil the witness one-time ability). Anyway, I'll *not* post the precise words I got in my pm.

[Blade6119]

DONT POST PMs!!!.....please dont!!!

[Blade6119]

Thats a big no-no...i didnt that in the past and got in trouble...please dont do it

[st.cronin]

Sorry ... edited

[Blade6119]

its all good, just know that in the future...i dont think it was mentioned here yet so you have no way of knowing....but ya, theres no way i cant believe you now

[st.cronin]

I didn't post that to make anybody believe me, because, you know, I could have easily written it myself. I was just looking to be more specific about what I "saw" because there was some question ... anyway, SnDvls changed into a wolf, and THEN there WAS an attack. It's just that, apparently, nobody was killed.

[Poli]

Well, like I said before, I trust Cronin. I'll be interested in seeing the arguments of A) Sndvls and B) anyone who challenges Cronin's vision, or whatever you call it.

[RPI-Fan]

UNVOTE ST.CRONIN

Looks like Neon was just far too vague in his wording...

Will leave my vote open, for now.

[st.cronin]

I am pretty sure that the only way the witness doesn't see something is if the wolves don't attack anybody. That was my understanding of the rules...

[RPI-Fan]

I am pretty sure that the only way the witness doesn't see something is if the wolves don't attack anybody. That was my understanding of the rules...

Well, the time would be rare when the wolves don't attack anyone (in fact, I think you'd have to be an idiot like me to do so!).

I do agree that it appears the only time the witness does no good is when the herbalist is active.

[dubb93]

Well, the time would be rare when the wolves don't attack anyone (in fact, I think you'd have to be an idiot like me to do so!).


I think its safe to say looking back that I PWNED you that game.

[SirFozzie]

ok.. my suspicions are somewhat allayed by the recent discussion.. enought to reinstate my vote.

VOTE SNDVLS

[Mr. Wednesday]

Kill me if you want. Passacaglia made a play screaming wolf, so as a villager our best play was to go get him.Um, no. He made a play screaming "you idiots are going to off the herbalist before he can do anything", and you proceeded to ignore the evidence as to why it was a good idea to leave him alive for at least one more day. Nice going.

[Mr. Wednesday]

ardent, your vote is not valid, it needs to be bold and all caps.

At this time, as much as any, one-for-one trades work to our benefit. If st. cronin is lying, then he's gone tomorrow.

VOTE SNDVLS

[McSweeny]

well since we've sorted out the rules bit

VOTE SNDVLS

[SackAttack]

VOTE RPI-FAN

Seems like you all have SnDvls targeted pretty well, but I still don't get a good vibe about RPI. With Passacaglia being the herbalist, and with RPI being pretty vehement at one point, referring to Pass as "you and your wolf buddies," I just gotta think he was being a little too ardent (sorry, AE!) to be anything but a wolf.

My two cents.

[RPI-Fan]

Um, no. He made a play screaming "you idiots are going to off the herbalist before he can do anything", and you proceeded to ignore the evidence as to why it was a good idea to leave him alive for at least one more day. Nice going.

He had a couple random first-day votes thrown on him, and he came out swinging, which was a very strange response. He could have been a lot more subtle and probably had things work out alright.

[Mr. Wednesday]

At the point he came out swinging, it wasn't "a couple random first-day votes", it was a full-fledged first-day bandwagon. It's all well and good to say that he could have been more subtle, but not everyone is blessed with the skill to make the subtle play. In hindsight, maybe it would have been better to try to talk people out of it quicker without pulling out the herbalist info until later, but it's really easy to get caught up in the "you idiots are screwing everything up" emotion and jump the gun.

[kingfc22]

What a wild first day. I'm going to go along with the SnDvls crowd and obviously if he is a villager then st. cronin is the next to go.

VOTE SNDVLS

[Poli]

VOTE SNDVLS


Thanks, Mr. W.

[dubb93]

IJ'm drunkm and assee sn0onty rason to chnge my vote

VOTE MCSEENY

[Neon_Chaos]

Did we get our very first drunken WW post?

[Raiders Army]

Holy cow, a lot of stuff happened since yesterday. I think it will take me the morning to figure out what happened.

[Poli]

I'll be at work most of the day, and I'll be lucky if I can even browse the discussion. Don't take my silence in a bad way.

[Barkeep49]

I'm really torn here.

On the one hand I think the witness using his ability the first night is almost always the correct play. Even if it takes two nights and requires a 1 for 1 trade when things are so tilted towards the villagers that is worth it.

On the other hand the rules state pretty clearly
As a one-time skill, you may choose to view the killing of an innocent during the night. If noone is killed, then you waste your view.

No one was killed last night so how could this be true?

On the otherhand, there is no reason to make this play if a wolf wasn't spotted last night. It doesn't make sense for the wolves since unless they somehow know that SnDvls is the Seer why would they sacrifice one of their own so early on? Since there is no indication in the rules that the wolves can find the seer, then either SnDvls or St. Cronin has to be the witness with other being a wolf.

Based on what's been posted I'm leaning towards believing St. Cronin. However, I learned my lesson a couple games back not to vote before both sides have been heard so I am holding off my vote until we hear from SnDvls.

[Raiders Army]

Well, a lot has happened, and at this point the only thing I know is that we have a two-horse race today with St. Cronin and SnDvls.

Barkeep brings up a good point, but then again I'm always suspicious of everything.

[SnDvls]

Wow a lot has gone on since last nigth.

St. Cronin, good play, but not correct. I was attacked last night, as you stated, but I was blessed. And therefor saved. I must have ruffeled some feathers or should I say fur when I said Pass & RPI were good, and looks like I was right there too. Again you all are barking up the wrong tree and losing another villager who can help get the wolves to come out is a bad move. I hope I'm not too late in stopping this wrongly started band wagon. I just wish St. Cronin would have waited until I said something before accusing me so quickly.

[SnDvls]

I was given permission by Neon to pharaphrase a PM from him last night, since st. cronin has already done so for my defense. It when something like this..again I'm phraphrasing and putting this in my own words per Neon's approval and permission.

While out at night you feel like someone is following you. Suddenly you are attacked and left for dead. You are lucky tonight as you are Blessed and get a second chance at life.

[Barkeep49]

Well I remain unconvinced. Perhaps today's discussion will change this, but for now I VOTE SNDVLS

Off to work for me now. Will be back a few hours before lynch. I hope to see the kind of good discussion we had yesterday.

[Raiders Army]

I was given permission by Neon to pharaphrase a PM from him last night, since st. cronin has already done so for my defense. It when something like this..again I'm phraphrasing and putting this in my own words per Neon's approval and permission.

While out at night you feel like someone is following you. Suddenly you are attacked and left for dead. You are lucky tonight as you are Blessed and get a second chance at life.
Hmpf. At first I thought it would be easy to discount this if someone else came forward to say that they were blessed and then it would be st. cronin and that person against SnDvls' word....but then I remembered that the blessed doesn't know if he is blessed. Doh.

I'll go with st. cronin, but if he's wrong, he's out. VOTE SNDVLS

[SnDvls]

Hmpf. At first I thought it would be easy to discount this if someone else came forward to say that they were blessed and then it would be st. cronin and that person against SnDvls' word....but then I remembered that the blessed doesn't know if he is blessed. Doh.

I'll go with st. cronin, but if he's wrong, he's out. VOTE SNDVLS

I don't know I'm blessed until I'm attacked that's the point. I'm given a second chance at life. I'm telling you St. C did see me get attacked I'm not disputting that. I'm saying you are going after the wrong person. Have you noticed I haven't thrown St. C under the bus? I believe he is who he says he is because I was attacked last night. Like I said I pissed off some wolves last night in what I did or said, probally because Pass was innocent. I guess I have to again go with my gut and vote who I thought was bad on day 1.

VOTE SIRFOZZIE

[RPI-Fan]

I don't think this has to be an either-or scenario. I think we were cut some slack by the poor wording in the rules (N_C letting people post summaries of their PM's indicates this), and we might have two people we can consider "safe".

I'm going to go with SnDvls here, as SirFozzie was semi-defending Pass yesterday, and then trying to push things my way today.

VOTE SIRFOZZIE

[Raiders Army]

I don't think this has to be an either-or scenario. I think we were cut some slack by the poor wording in the rules (N_C letting people post summaries of their PM's indicates this), and we might have two people we can consider "safe".

I'm going to go with SnDvls here, as SirFozzie was semi-defending Pass yesterday, and then trying to push things my way today.

VOTE SIRFOZZIE
Whoooooa. This is completely out of left field. Why would you think that SirFozzie is a wolf when he was defending a known villager? (who incidentally was telling the truth...sorry about voting for you, Pass!)

I gave you benefit of the doubt yesterday when you were pushing hard for Pass, but now this just seems like you're trying to save SnDvls by voting for someone who's not even on the chopping block.

[Raiders Army]

Dola, I also don't get how you don't get it's an either or scenario. Either st. cronin is telling the truth or SnDvls is telling the truth. It can't be both.

[RPI-Fan]

Dola, I also don't get how you don't get it's an either or scenario. Either st. cronin is telling the truth or SnDvls is telling the truth. It can't be both.

Doh! Really tired this morning... I was thinking st.cronin had ONLY said SnDvls was attacked (not that he actually became a wolf).

Re-reading what he says...

UNVOTE SIRFOZZIE

[Mr. Wednesday]

OK, this is turning into a mess, and if it turns out that st. cronin is the witness and SnDvls the blessed, we're liable to have a complete train wreck here. We really need to nail a wolf on this one or we're seriously behind the 8-ball.

UNVOTE SNDVLS

[pennywisesb]

OK, this is turning into a mess, and if it turns out that st. cronin is the witness and SnDvls the blessed, we're liable to have a complete train wreck here. We really need to nail a wolf on this one or we're seriously behind the 8-ball.

Dang. Alot to read through and alot has gone on since I last signed in. I'm kinda following this train of thought as well. I think that St. C did see SnDvls get attacked, but I'm also leaning towards thinking SnDvls was the blessed as well. I think we are barking up the wrong tree here because both are potentially villagers. I'm not POSITIVE on this however.

[RPI-Fan]

st.cronin: Did your witness yield you seeing SnDvls attacked, or seeing him converted? Makes a big difference, and I'm not sure if I've yet seen it cleared up directly from you.

[pennywisesb]

st.cronin: Did your witness yield you seeing SnDvls attacked, or seeing him converted? Makes a big difference, and I'm not sure if I've yet seen it cleared up directly from you.

Agreed. I think this information is pertinent to our voting patterns today.

[st.cronin]

I followed SnDvls and saw him turn into a wolf, and attack a villager. I assume if he were blessed, he would not have turned into a wolf. I assume the villager he attacked was, in fact, blessed. It's the only way I can make sense of what I saw.

[McSweeny]

what a mess

UNVOTE SNDVLS

we're already down the herbalist and now we may or may not have had a botched witness attempt? things aren't looking good

[Raiders Army]

I followed SnDvls and saw him turn into a wolf, and attack a villager. I assume if he were blessed, he would not have turned into a wolf. I assume the villager he attacked was, in fact, blessed. It's the only way I can make sense of what I saw.
I think this clears it up.

[st.cronin]

what a mess

UNVOTE SNDVLS

we're already down the herbalist and now we may or may not have had a botched witness attempt? things aren't looking good

Let me be clear: I saw SnDvls turn into a wolf. The attack took place *after* he turned into a wolf.

[pennywisesb]

Let me be clear: I saw SnDvls turn into a wolf. The attack took place *after* he turned into a wolf.

So your witnessing powers allowed you to both a) witness SnDvls be attacked and transformed into a wolf and b) watch him attack someone else all in the same night?

[SnDvls]

Let me be clear: I saw SnDvls turn into a wolf. The attack took place *after* he turned into a wolf.


I originally thought you were in fact a witness, but now I'm more convinced you were the person attacking me. The witness role clearly says that you can choose to view the killing. You claim you saw me turn into a wolf and then attack. I don't buy it. I know I was attacked, I don't know by whom. The only other person who would know I was attacked was the attacker and that my friend seems to be clear to me know it's you. I was given a second chance by being blessed, like I said before I'm onto some wolves and they don't like it. Now they are again just sitting back and watching us lynch another villager. Don't let this happen I'm begging you all. St. Cronin and his wolf boys are still out there, stop the innocent killing now.

[SnDvls]

should have added

UNVOTE SIRFOZZIZE

VOTE ST.CRONIN

[pennywisesb]

At this point there is obviously alot of suspicion cast on SnDvls, which is the main reason why I don't want to ally myself with him, but I do feel that St. Cronin's ability would not have allowed him to both watch SnDvls become converted as well as watch him then go on and attack someone. Just my .02. it'd be nice if we can get some other thoughts out there.

[Mr. Wednesday]

I followed SnDvls and saw him turn into a wolf, and attack a villager. I assume if he were blessed, he would not have turned into a wolf. I assume the villager he attacked was, in fact, blessed. It's the only way I can make sense of what I saw.Hmm... this does seem like it would fit with the rules if we assume that the blessed was killed in the attack, and then resurrected due to the blessing.

[Mr. Wednesday]

SnDvls, who are you onto besides st. cronin?

pennywise, the way I read it st. cronin is clearly accusing SnDvls of being a wolf, period, not of being attacked and converted. i.e. SnDvls is the one who carried out the attack, and it failed only because the one taken was the blessed.

[Mr. Wednesday]

BTW, I find st. cronin's story credible. The main reason to fake a witnessing is because you yourself are witnessed, and yet that's not SnDvls counterargument. Also, I read the blessed as a one-shot deal, so we would at least not be losing the role if we're wrong.

VOTE SNDVLS

[SnDvls]

BTW, I find st. cronin's story credible. The main reason to fake a witnessing is because you yourself are witnessed, and yet that's not SnDvls counterargument. Also, I read the blessed as a one-shot deal, so we would at least not be losing the role if we're wrong.

VOTE SNDVLS

That's because he knows who the witness is, it's someone who either hasn't spoken up today because they haven't posted yet, or someone like hoops who is gone all day. It was a great play by St. C. He knew hoops (not sure who else stated they'd be gone all day) would be gone all day so no one to refute that we wasn't the witness. With everyone posting their avaliability it gave him an easy out.

SnDvls, who are you onto besides st. cronin?



reread some of my prior posts, but most of them are quiet ones again. Look I was a bad guy in several games. You lay low and say nothing or very minimal when two villagers are fighting and pile on once you see a chance. It makes your numbers stronger.

edit to fix quote bracket

[pennywisesb]

pennywise, the way I read it st. cronin is clearly accusing SnDvls of being a wolf, period, not of being attacked and converted. i.e. SnDvls is the one who carried out the attack, and it failed only because the one taken was the blessed.

Good point, I misread what he had stated. I thought he meant that SnDvls was converted and then after the conversion attacked someone which sounded alittle far fetched to me. This makes sense now, at least enough for me to

VOTE SNDVLS

[Mr. Wednesday]

I wouldn't use my witnessing ability prior to a day where I wouldn't be available, but I suppose stranger things have happened.

[pennywisesb]

That's because he knows who the witness is, it's someone who either hasn't spoken up today because they haven't posted yet, or someone like hoops who is gone all day. It was a great play by St. C. He knew hoops (not sure who else stated they'd be gone all day) would be gone all day so no one to refute that we wasn't the witness. With everyone posting their avaliability it gave him an easy out.


I think you are reaching alittle bit here. Pretty much everyone said they'd have a chance to sign on before the vote ended tonight, so wouldn't they be able to refute St. C's claims at that point? Sounds like a pretty ballsy move on St. Cronin's part. More of a delay than anything else.

[st.cronin]

So your witnessing powers allowed you to both a) witness SnDvls be attacked and transformed into a wolf and b) watch him attack someone else all in the same night?

Apparently. I didn't see who was attacked.

SnDvls story makes no sense. If I wasn't the witness, how would I know who the witness is? Obviously there are reasons for a wolf to pretend to be the witness, but the problem is that if I am *not* the witness, the real witness hasn't stepped forward. I don't know why SnDvls (or some other wolf) hasn't played that card yet - because, as far as I can figure, it's the only way to discredit me.

Also, I would assume that SnDvls is the cunning wolf, assuming that he is aware he is the cunning wolf. The sensible strategy on the wolves part would be to attack with the cunning wolf the first night, figuring the attack would be witnessed, and then the following day's lynching would discredit the witness. I don't see any other logical opening move, although this *is* my first werewolf game.

[Mr. Wednesday]

If you take the POV that st. cronin is a wolf who is falsely claiming to be a witness, you would have to presume that he had been witnessed. However, it would be a surprising play (to me) to not accuse the actual witness. I don't really see what the benefit in that would be, at least if you accuse the actual witness, you get a he said/she said that can wind up being a coin flip (or a "who got to post it first" race).

[st.cronin]

If you take the POV that st. cronin is a wolf who is falsely claiming to be a witness, you would have to presume that he had been witnessed. However, it would be a surprising play (to me) to not accuse the actual witness. I don't really see what the benefit in that would be, at least if you accuse the actual witness, you get a he said/she said that can wind up being a coin flip (or a "who got to post it first" race).

I'm confused. Several posts, including yours, seem to indicate that the wolves *know* who the witness is? How?

[Mr. Wednesday]

Dola, come to think of it, there is a very interesting play for the cunning wolf to do if witnessed. Accuse someone else, let the witness wade in, and you have the potential to implicate two villagers (the witness and the accused) and not just one. I gotta think some more about our best approach to this situation... though whatever else happens, I think we need to stick to SnDvls and st. cronin. It's pretty much a certainty that one of the two is a wolf. I'm still leaning to st. cronin's story being more credible right now.

[Mr. Wednesday]

I'm confused. Several posts, including yours, seem to indicate that the wolves *know* who the witness is? How? Typically, when the witnessing occurs, the bad guys see the witness and learn who s/he is. That's not in the rules for this game, I don't know if Neon_Chaos forgot to include it, or if the bad guys actually don't learn the identity of the witness when witnessed.

[pennywisesb]

Typically, when the witnessing occurs, the bad guys see the witness and learn who s/he is. That's not in the rules for this game, I don't know if Neon_Chaos forgot to include it, or if the bad guys actually don't learn the identity of the witness when witnessed.


Good point. Maybe Neon can clarify that for us.

Mr. Wed is definately in my circle of trust at the moment. His analysis so far has me believing he's definately a villager.

[dubb93]

Here are my two cents....

I see no reason not to believe the rules. The rules state:

If noone is killed, then you waste your view.

The night action post also clearly states:

Last night, you heard screams.... screams of terror.

You wake up, and look around. Noone is missing. You're not sure if that is a good thing, or a bad thing.

What you are sure of, however, is that you must lynch someone today.

What could the screams of terror indicate? I would say someone being blessed and coming back to life, per the rules. So it would fit with the rules, and plus, Sndvls has been making some desperate posts so far. My only concern is why the true blessed hasn't spoken up yet. There is no reason for him to hide now that his role has been used up. Unless another blessed speaks up I must believe both of them and assume St. Cronin mis-read his PM.

UNVOTE "MCSEENY"

[SackAttack]

I'm trying to grasp the events and my head is spinning. I have several Gamenikki things to do today, but I will check back in before the deadline and catch up on everything.

Until then, my previous vote stands as-is.

[st.cronin]

Nobody has yet said that they were attacked last night, right? and nobody has said they were the blessed? I would assume, then, that whoever was attacked was cursed.

[SackAttack]

Nobody has yet said that they were attacked last night, right? and nobody has said they were the blessed? I would assume, then, that whoever was attacked was cursed.

No, that much I do remember from when I read the thread a couple hours ago. There was one dude claiming to be blessed.

[dubb93]

Nobody has yet said that they were attacked last night, right? and nobody has said they were the blessed? I would assume, then, that whoever was attacked was cursed.

But being cursed and turning into a wolf does not involve death, which would have rendered your view worthless. The only way your story works is if the blessed was attacked and killed and then brought back to life.

[dubb93]

Nobody has yet said that they were attacked last night, right? and nobody has said they were the blessed? I would assume, then, that whoever was attacked was cursed.

And Sndvls said he was blessed.

[Mr. Wednesday]

Right now, the only claims I've seen are that st. cronin is the witness and SnDvls is blessed -- and st. cronin's claim is such that both cannot be true as he claims that SnDvls was the attacker, not the attacked. Both cannot be true, so it certainly would help for the person actually being spoofed to speak up.

[dubb93]

Right now, the only claims I've seen are that st. cronin is the witness and SnDvls is blessed -- and st. cronin's claim is such that both cannot be true as he claims that SnDvls was the attacker, not the attacked. Both cannot be true, so it certainly would help for the person actually being spoofed to speak up.

Neon likes to get creative with his PM's. Prehaps St. Cronin is mis-reading it? It may not be as likely as one of either him or SnDvls flat out telling a lie, but this is Cronin's first game and he could be mis-reading the PM.

[Blade6119]

Neon likes to get creative with his PM's. Prehaps St. Cronin is mis-reading it? It may not be as likely as one of either him or SnDvls flat out telling a lie, but this is Cronin's first game and he could be mis-reading the PM.

Dubb, cronin originally posted the PM before editing it out....it was quite clear in that he followed sundvls, saw him turn into a warewolf and attack a villager...

He did it in quote form from a neon chaos quote, which i might have said was fake but the whole quote just reeked of neon chaos...it sounded like PMs ive gotten from him in past games.

[Mr. Wednesday]

I thought his last description of what he viewed was pretty straightforward -- SnDvls turned into a wolf and attacked someone, the one attacked not seen by st. cronin. The only thing to confuse there is the thing that did get confused, which was whether SnDvls was getting attacked and turned into a wolf, or was the attacker.

If you presume that st. cronin is telling the truth and SnDvls is the cunning wolf, then his play at being blessed might actually make more sense than claiming to be the witness -- we risk having to hang st. cronin to verify his role if we lynch SnDvls tonight and he appears to not be a wolf.

[Mr. Wednesday]

Blade, I'd suggest you not go there. You're compounding st. cronin's error. I'm going to try to forget I saw you post that.

[Blade6119]

He said sundvls turned into a wolf and attacked someone....sundvls was not the victim as per the PM he posted...no blessed or cursed about it, sundvls was the attacker

[Blade6119]

Blade, I'd suggest you not go there. You're compounding st. cronin's error. I'm going to try to forget I saw you post that.

Its only fair that if one or two saw it then everyone should know what it says...not fair for just two or three to know

[Mr. Wednesday]

Dude, it's bad enough that he posted the PM, at least he was good enough to edit it. Let's pretend it wasn't posted at all and not discuss the exact contents!

[Mr. Wednesday]

Dola, I realize you can't undo seeing it yourself, but it's best for the game IMO if it doesn't get discussed further.

[McSweeny]

well i'm heading out for the night and won't be back until sometime tomorrow.

VOTE SNDVLS

[dubb93]

Well I guess this is pretty clear then.

VOTE SNDVLS

[RPI-Fan]

Ok, here's what I feel happened.

SnDvls is the cunning wolf, and that's the "transformation" st.cronin witnessed. The wolves attacked the Blessed, or more likely the Cursed last night, and for some reason the real Blessed (or for more obvious reasons the Cursed) does not want to step up -- maybe they have a grand scheme, so I'm not really going to question that.

Bottom line:

VOTE SNDVLS

[st.cronin]

Neon likes to get creative with his PM's. Prehaps St. Cronin is mis-reading it? It may not be as likely as one of either him or SnDvls flat out telling a lie, but this is Cronin's first game and he could be mis-reading the PM.

I don't think I am mis-reading it. It seems to me to be very clear:

SnDvls changes into wolf
wolf attacks anonymous villager
at that point I run away

[st.cronin]

Ok, here's what I feel happened.

SnDvls is the cunning wolf, and that's the "transformation" st.cronin witnessed. The wolves attacked the Blessed last night, and for some reason the real blessed does not want to step up -- maybe they have a grand scheme, so I'm not really going to question that.

Bottom line:

VOTE SNDVLS

That is my interpretation as well ... although I think it is also possible that the victim was 'cursed,' which is why the victim has not spoken up. I'm a little bit unsure how to interpret the rules.

I suppose there are other possibilities as well; the one thing I am sure of is that SnDvls is a wolf.

[Mr. Wednesday]

At this point, we're taking SnDvls word for it that the blessed is the one attacked. With nobody coming forward on the point (that is, neither another supposed witness nor someone else claiming to be blessed), I think it's looking more and more likely that the one attacked was cursed, not blessed.

[Blade6119]

Sundvls said cronin wasnt the one that attacked him, but wouldnt that mean cronin had to be the witness? Sundvls attacked someone last night, they got lucky and hit a cursed, and now we have 4 wolves and one less villager after we lynched pass...

i wanted to post this in case any of my thoughts get me killed...this is who i am intersted in besides sun:
RPI
Hoops
Mcsweeney
Kingfc
(not necessarily in that order)...

[SnDvls]

Sundvls said cronin wasnt the one that attacked him, but wouldnt that mean cronin had to be the witness? Sundvls attacked someone last night, they got lucky and hit a cursed, and now we have 4 wolves and one less villager after we lynched pass...




don't misquote me now. I said I was attacked. I don't know by whom, but if St. Cronin says it was him and by posting a fake PM that you belive and no one else here saw except Blade and St. C (which is against the rules, written or not, it's understood it's bad form) then go with that. I am the blessed I was attacked. St. C know's I was attacked which means one of two things. He attacked me or he was the witness. With him and Blade teaming up against me it looks like St. C is probally the wolf who once killed looks to be a villager and Blade is his wolf friend.

it's gonna really suck to be lynched by a bogus PM that's all.

[SnDvls]

cunning wolf is the role I was looking for re: St. C in my last post, just looked at the rules again.

[SnDvls]

Ok, here's what I feel happened.

SnDvls is the cunning wolf, and that's the "transformation" st.cronin witnessed. The wolves attacked the Blessed, or more likely the Cursed last night, and for some reason the real Blessed (or for more obvious reasons the Cursed) does not want to step up -- maybe they have a grand scheme, so I'm not really going to question that.

Bottom line:

VOTE SNDVLS


why is this the bottom line? St. C has you all fooled. I'm blessed, I was attacked. Who else would know I was attacked. reread the rules, no one was killed how could a witness see if no one was killed.

[SnDvls]

Neon likes to get creative with his PM's. Prehaps St. Cronin is mis-reading it? It may not be as likely as one of either him or SnDvls flat out telling a lie, but this is Cronin's first game and he could be mis-reading the PM.


or making up a PM. All he had to do is get one person wolf or villager in Blade to read it and buy in. Hook, line, and sinker. Now Blade is spewing his lies about me being a wolf.

[st.cronin]

this game is fun

[Raiders Army]

Ok, here's what I feel happened.

SnDvls is the cunning wolf, and that's the "transformation" st.cronin witnessed. The wolves attacked the Blessed, or more likely the Cursed last night, and for some reason the real Blessed (or for more obvious reasons the Cursed) does not want to step up -- maybe they have a grand scheme, so I'm not really going to question that.

Bottom line:

VOTE SNDVLS

I don't get this: if SnDvls isn't the blessed, and the blessed wasn't attacked, there would be no one to come forward to say they are blessed because they wouldn't know if they're blessed or not....so the "real" blessed couldn't stand up. There is also that possibility.

[RPI-Fan]

I don't get this: if SnDvls isn't the blessed, and the blessed wasn't attacked, there would be no one to come forward to say they are blessed because they wouldn't know if they're blessed or not....so the "real" blessed couldn't stand up. There is also that possibility.

Doh, right.

SnDvls defense here just smacks of wolf trying to play the sympathy card ("it's going to suck dying by a bogus PM"), and I'm not buying into it.

[SnDvls]

I don't get this: if SnDvls isn't the blessed, and the blessed wasn't attacked, there would be no one to come forward to say they are blessed because they wouldn't know if they're blessed or not....so the "real" blessed couldn't stand up. There is also that possibility.


there is no other blessed. I'm the blessed. I've admitted I was attacked. I don't know by who, but St. C seems to know I was attacked, he was on late last night after the night roles and quickly posted a fake PM to get in the early line that I was bad. The attack failed last night, the wolves are fighting to get another villager since the attack on me failed. St. C just didn't read the witness role correctly and now is trying to pass it off as such. No one was killed no witness.

[Barkeep49]

I don't get this: if SnDvls isn't the blessed, and the blessed wasn't attacked, there would be no one to come forward to say they are blessed because they wouldn't know if they're blessed or not....so the "real" blessed couldn't stand up. There is also that possibility.
Well the thing is if no one is willing to step and say they're blessed, and St. Cronin is telling the truth, then the only other scenario I can think of that fits the description is that the wolves got a cursed person. So even IF sndvls is lying today and is a wolf we're not all that better off than we were after our lynch yesterday.

[pennywisesb]

this game is fun

And just think, its only day 2! :)

[Blade6119]

Here are the the scenarios i see right now:

1.Cronin is the witness, saw sundvls turn into a warewolf and attack someone...with no blessed person coming forward, they hit a cursed and we now have one more wolf

2.Sundvls was blessed and got attacked, cronin knew sun was out, either by atatcking him or being the witness...if hes the witness though, that leads back to #1.

3.Their both warewolfs trying to get one or the other cleared

Any other situations anyone sees? I think #1 is the most likely, due to the PM, whether or not others got to see it he paraphrased it anyways...you can draw your own conclusions

[Raiders Army]

Very true. I guess we'll find out tonight.

[Raiders Army]

Ok, here's what I feel happened.

SnDvls is the cunning wolf, and that's the "transformation" st.cronin witnessed. The wolves attacked the Blessed, or more likely the Cursed last night, and for some reason the real Blessed (or for more obvious reasons the Cursed) does not want to step up -- maybe they have a grand scheme, so I'm not really going to question that.

Bottom line:

VOTE SNDVLS
Hey also, you're on my "suspicious" list since you're editing your posts. Forgot to put that in there in my other post.

[SnDvls]

Doh, right.

SnDvls defense here just smacks of wolf trying to play the sympathy card ("it's going to suck dying by a bogus PM"), and I'm not buying into it.


did you read it? so what are you basing your vote on? Blade comfirming a fake PM?

[SnDvls]

Here are the the scenarios i see right now:

1.Cronin is the witness, saw sundvls turn into a warewolf and attack someone...with no blessed person coming forward, they hit a cursed and we now have one more wolf

2.Sundvls was blessed and got attacked, cronin knew sun was out, either by atatcking him or being the witness...if hes the witness though, that leads back to #1.

3.Their both warewolfs trying to get one or the other cleared

Any other situations anyone sees? I think #1 is the most likely, due to the PM, whether or not others got to see it he paraphrased it anyways...you can draw your own conclusions

how convinent for you to leave out if St. C was a wolf in #2 where it leads. you are the only one who can "back" the fake PM. and now you leave this out too! SOMETHINGS WRONG HERE!

[Blade6119]

did you read it? so what are you basing your vote on? Blade comfirming a fake PM?

If neon oks it since a few(at least me) have already seen it, he can repost it for ya im sure...i dont know it was real, i just said it seemed to me to sound like a neon PM...ive gotten ones from him in past games it it was similar...ive never been the witness though so i cant say if it fit that mold, i just had to draw my own conlcusions...no one has to believe me, and prob. better they dont if cronin is lying so other villagers besides myself dont die from the backlash

[SnDvls]

well my wife and daughter are home so it's time for dinner. hopefully I'll be back later tonight.

[Blade6119]

how convinent for you to leave out if St. C was a wolf in #2 where it leads. you are the only one who can "back" the fake PM. and now you leave this out too! SOMETHINGS WRONG HERE!

READ THE DAMN WRITING!!! I said either he was the attacker or witness....ATTACKER MEANS WOLF!!!! Bloody hell, read what i write

[SnDvls]

If neon oks it since a few(at least me) have already seen it, he can repost it for ya im sure...i dont know it was real, i just said it seemed to me to sound like a neon PM...ive gotten ones from him in past games it it was similar...ive never been the witness though so i cant say if it fit that mold, i just had to draw my own conlcusions...no one has to believe me, and prob. better they dont if cronin is lying so other villagers besides myself dont die from the backlash


did you post a fake PM from you friend in a previous WW game and get him killed as an innocent too? is this your M.O. as a bad guy to work up fake PM's and run with it?

[dubb93]

how convinent for you to leave out if St. C was a wolf in #2 where it leads. you are the only one who can "back" the fake PM. and now you leave this out too! SOMETHINGS WRONG HERE!

I tried to make a case for you and was actually leaning toward you untill Blade brought up the PM. I just don't see a wolf faking a PM and then deleteing it on day 2. Sorry man, but in your death we will all see that you were nothing more than a normal villager....but we'll all know you were indeed the cunning wolf.

[Blade6119]

did you post a fake PM from you friend in a previous WW game and get him killed as an innocent too? is this your M.O. as a bad guy to work up fake PM's and run with it?

It actually was a real PM, he confirmed he sent it...dont make crap up

[Poli]

I'm still down with my sndvls vote.

[pennywisesb]

I think SnDvls has reached complete panic mode and thats why he's getting so upset. I agree with Dubb on this one, I think once we lynch him, he'll look like a normal villager to all of us, but will have indeed been the cunning wolf.

[Barkeep49]

3.Their both warewolfs trying to get one or the other cleared

Boy this is quite an intersting ploy I didn't even consider. It would fit with a cursed having become a werewolf as well. Since the wolves got an additional wolf perhaps they figured by getting one of their own cleared they would be able to gain a large upperhand.

[Raiders Army]

How cunning.

[Poli]

Smells like that darn Ship game, if you ask me.

[pennywisesb]

How cunning.

LMAO

[st.cronin]

Boy this is quite an intersting ploy I didn't even consider. It would fit with a cursed having become a werewolf as well. Since the wolves got an additional wolf perhaps they figured by getting one of their own cleared they would be able to gain a large upperhand.

I don't think this makes any sense; when I first came forward as a witness, neither SnDvls nor me was much of a suspect. I don't think anybody was, really. This scenario would only make sense if we were BOTH suspects, but I don't think ANYBODY had suggested ME as a suspect.

Although it's possible I'm misunderstanding you.

[Barkeep49]

I don't think this makes any sense; when I first came forward as a witness, neither SnDvls nor me was much of a suspect. I don't think anybody was, really. This scenario would only make sense if we were BOTH suspects, but I don't think ANYBODY had suggested ME as a suspect.

Although it's possible I'm misunderstanding you.
That's why it would work. You do this early in the game, one of you goes down but the overall number of wolves doesn't change. Furthermore, either your or SnDvls, depending on who passes the lynch vote unharmed, are pretty much cleared when the lynch happens and the person is discovered to be a wolf.

Now I'm not saying that this is what happened, as it seems like a bit of a long shot. But it would be one hell of a good strategy.

[st.cronin]

But it would be one hell of a good strategy.

I disagree, because had I done nothing at all, the chances of lynching an actual wolf are less than even.

[hoopsguy]

Back - trying desperately to catch up on my reading before the deadline but I'm only up to Post #340 so have all of today's stuff to get through. I'll probably cut bait around 7:45 PM EST and work backwards to see where the vote is at and if there is a role I need to play in a close vote.

[pennywisesb]

Does anyone have a running tally on the votes for tonight?

[Raiders Army]

I disagree, because had I done nothing at all, the chances of lynching an actual wolf are less than even.
FWIW, I think what Barkeep's trying to say is that it's not looking at today, but at votes down the road. A sacrifice of one wolf for complete trust in another is not a bad tradeoff.

The problem with this is that if the cursed wasn't hit last night, no one should have complete trust throughout the entire game.

This is also a strategy that has never been done before (that I know of). The wolves are so low in number that I don't think they would ever sacrifice one of their own, no matter the benefit...unless it was endgame.

[Neon_Chaos]

I'm starting to tally votes. Remember, deadline is at 8:00 PM EST, board time.

[Poli]

Ladies and gentlemen, our very own Jeff Probst. :)

[hoopsguy]

I'm up to about Post #440. Is there any kind of a race going on or is SunDvls the runaway leader? If that is the case then I'll stop speed-reading ...

[pennywisesb]

I'm up to about Post #440. Is there any kind of a race going on or is SunDvls the runaway leader? If that is the case then I'll stop speed-reading ...

Its pretty much SnDvls. But I'm also interested in a vote tally.

[Neon_Chaos]

Current vote count (with votes arranged by the order of voting per player):

SnDvls - st.cronin, SirFozzie, Blade6119, Barkeep49, Raiders Army, Mr. Wednesday, pennywisesb, McSweeny, dubb93, RPI-Fan
RPI-Fan - SackAttack
st.cronin - SnDvls
No Votes - hoopsguy, kingfc22

[Blade6119]

Anyone else think Kings utter lack of participation is odd

[hoopsguy]

Vote SNDVLS

Yes, it amounts to a worthless bandwagon vote. But the vote also represents where my thoughts are after a rapid read through the posts. I don't think there is room for a villager vs villager conflict here. Which means that we are getting a one-to-one trade if St Cronin has pulled the wool over our eyes today. And a 1:1 trade still seems to have value at this point in the game.

The only point I haven't seen raised yet is if StC has conned us (I don't think this is the case) and there was a conversion last night (cursed) then we could potentially be in trouble:

Start:
13-3 Villager/Wolf
12-3 Lynch Herbalist
11-4 Conversion
10-4 St. Cronin with a very smooth con job
9-4 Wolf kill
9-3 Lynch StC
8-3 Wolf kill

All of these numbers assume that we are not seeing a double-death scenario with lovers. That is where I think our biggest danger is - we lynch a lover or a wolf bags two for the price of one. That will help them get down to the 1:1 ratio much faster.

Also, in the above scenario we don't have any more significant information on the wolves because we have accepted a trade-off of wolf/villager.

Bottom line - I hope that we are right on SnDvls as the cunning wolf or else we are really going to have our work cut out for us.

[Raiders Army]

Anyone else think Kings utter lack of participation is odd
Yes, as well as all of the editing of posts.

[hoopsguy]

DOLA

VOTE SNDVLS

Just in case the VOTE needed to be in caps as well as the name (while bolded).

[Blade6119]

Vote SNDVLS

Yes, it amounts to a worthless bandwagon vote. But the vote also represents where my thoughts are after a rapid read through the posts. I don't think there is room for a villager vs villager conflict here. Which means that we are getting a one-to-one trade if St Cronin has pulled the wool over our eyes today. And a 1:1 trade still seems to have value at this point in the game.

The only point I haven't seen raised yet is if StC has conned us (I don't think this is the case) and there was a conversion last night (cursed) then we could potentially be in trouble:

Start:
13-3 Villager/Wolf
12-3 Lynch Herbalist
11-4 Conversion
10-4 St. Cronin with a very smooth con job
9-4 Wolf kill
9-3 Lynch StC
8-3 Wolf kill

All of these numbers assume that we are not seeing a double-death scenario with lovers. That is where I think our biggest danger is - we lynch a lover or a wolf bags two for the price of one. That will help them get down to the 1:1 ratio much faster.

Also, in the above scenario we don't have any more significant information on the wolves because we have accepted a trade-off of wolf/villager.

Bottom line - I hope that we are right on SnDvls as the cunning wolf or else we are really going to have our work cut out for us.

Big question is if he comes up as villager do we take it as he was blessed or the cunning wolf?

[RPI-Fan]

Big question is if he comes up as villager do we take it as he was blessed or the cunning wolf?

I think he'd come up as "Blessed" if that's what he was.

[Neon_Chaos]

Ding ding ding.

Also, I'd like to remind everyone not to edit their posts. Unless it was a valid in-game reason. You don't want to be labelled as having "Blackaddared" yourself in a game, now, would you?

[RPI-Fan]

Ding ding ding.

Also, I'd like to remind everyone not to edit their posts. Unless it was a valid in-game reason. You don't want to be labelled as having "Blackaddared" yourself in a game, now, would you?

Guess this is directed a little bit at me, huh?

I just have to get out of the habit. I hate spelling and grammar errors, so I love to just go and fix them real quick. In addition, upon re-reading right after I post, I often see a thought I wanted to throw in there. Need to remember to just type it in a new post.

BTW, what did Blackadar do?

[Poli]

I think my vote may have been misplaced. I'm sure it's in there, somewhere.

[Neon_Chaos]

Votes: (edited to correct it, missed kingfc's and ardent's vote)
SnDvls - st.cronin, SirFozzie, kingfc22, ardent enthusiast, Blade6119, Barkeep49, Raiders Army, Mr. Wednesday, pennywisesb, McSweeny, dubb93, RPI-Fan, hoopsguy
RPI-Fan - SackAttack
st.cronin - SnDvls


You gather around SnDvls, quite convinced that he is a werewolf. You grab him by the arms and start tying him up. He struggles, and starts to fight back. You feel him growing stronger! He turns himself into that which you fear the most! Of course, everyone starts running for their lives. Fortunately a noose has already been tied around his neck, and a couple of you manage to hoist the rope up a ledge. You pull, hard... and soon everyone joins in. SnDvls' wolf form is lifted from the ground, and you hear him whimper like a dog as he gasps for air. You leave him there as he thrashes about, and wait until he is no more.

SnDvls was a werewolf!

It is now Night (2), kindly send in your actions.

Player List:
SackAttack
st.cronin
kingfc22
Raiders Army
Passacaglia - Herbalist, lynched Day 1.
hoopsguy
RPI-Fan
ardent enthusiast
pennywisesb
SnDvls - Werewolf, lynched Day 2
McSweeny
Mr. Wednesday
SirFozzie
dubb93
Barkeep49

[Neon_Chaos]

BTW, what did Blackadar do?

Anyone would like to recall that wonderful childish tantrum 'adar pulled?

[st.cronin]

well, that comes as a surprise to me - i thought for sure he would be cunning ...

[Neon_Chaos]

Anyone would like to recall that wonderful childish tantrum 'adar pulled?

It was Blackaddar, wasn't it? Hmmm. I might have had my memory messed up a bit.

[hoopsguy]

Nice job, all!

Weird play by team wolf - why have the regular wolf as the executioner? The cunning wolf would create dissention. The brutal wolf would take someone with him.

Well, we no longer have a herbalist or a witness so the seer is of paramount importance now. I would urge whoever has this role to try and steer conversation towards a wolf without revealing your role. Blade, please make sure to add this to any quotes you might have suggesting that I'm trying to "out" the special villagers. Is that un-subtle enough?

If there are 3 (or more? general assumpion is that we started with 3) wolves then we still have a lot of work ahead of us and not many unique assets remaining.

[hoopsguy]

Neon, did you ever post on the seer/cunning wolf question? How does the cunning wolf appear to the seer? Human or wolf?

[Poli]

Go team villager! :)

[SnDvls]

well looks like the error in pm posting got me. I'll be watching closely, but I'm pretty confident the wolves will win. Thanks Neon for a fun game while it lasted.

Go Wolves!!!