LOL...Wie misses cut at the Casino World Open, Japan.

[WrongWay]

Maybe she just need to find a men's tournament that doesn't have enough players in it.

I love this blog.
hxxp://www.travelgolf.com/blogs/chris.baldwin/2005/11/25/michelle_wie_shows_she_can_fold_in_japan


The news came in the middle of the night in most of America, news that's fast becoming as predictable as snow in Michigan in January for all but the Wie Warriors.

Marketing monster Michelle Wie folded again when faced with a little pressure, bogeyed the last two holes in her second round to miss the cut at the Casio World Open. At some point, you have to start feeling sorry for this 16-year-old who obviously knows nothing about winning or performing in the clutch.

The only funny thing is how the Wie Warriors get so pumped up, convinced they are finally going to be proven right, only to see the wheels fall off the bus yet again.

Michelle Wie's now proven she cannot win, or even do anything artificially significant, in America, Canada and Japan. Maybe she'll try her hand at Liechtenstein next. It's obvious she needs a smaller stage.

Then again, she couldn't win big tournaments in the Juniors either.

Remember, this was the Casino World Open, a Japanese Tour event with a field less impressive than some major college tournaments. This is the tournament that Tiger Woods thought she might be able to contend in. Making the cut seemed to be a given with Tiger declaring, "there's no reason why she can't make the cut."

Well, no reason except the fact Wie would likely blow a three-foot putt playing for a local country club's beer round trophy.

Now we know why Tiger Woods is no Phil Mickelson when it comes to sports betting. Of course, working for Nike, Tiger has to play nice to Michelle.

The Wie camp cannot acknowledge the farce this has become of course. If only it wasn't all about dollar signs and Wie could go back and try to learn how to handle anything stressful in low-level amateur tournaments.





I think my local high school has a boy's tournament comming up soon. :D

[cthomer5000]

She's laughing all the way to the bank.

[WrongWay]

I guess she can always get Financial advise from Tennis legend Anna Kournikova. :)

[sachmo71]

Uppity women!

[Honolulu_Blue]

Uppity women!
Indeed! Hah hah! Stupid 16 year old girls thinking they are as good as men! What's next? Women will want to vote? Bah! Get back in the kitchen and fix me a potpie!

[duckman]

Indeed! Hah hah! Stupid 16 year old girls thinking they are as good as men! What's next? Women will want to vote? Bah! Get back in the kitchen and fix me a potpie!
:D

[sovereignstar]

I'm gonna buy WrongWay a club for X-mas.

Edit: Oh yeah, this kind.

http://www.giantpartystore.com/Images/PID_4808.jpg

[WrongWay]

This is what made me laugh the most about his article.
The only funny thing is how the Wie Warriors get so pumped up, convinced they are finally going to be proven right, only to see the wheels fall off the bus yet again.

I know we have more than a few Wie Warriors running around here. :D

[miami_fan]

Am I the only one who finds no real interest in Michelle Wie or her golf game one way or the other?

[Joe]

I'd hit it

[TroyF]

I took you off ignore just so I could read your babble.

She's finished in the top five of MAJOR tournaments. Multiple major tournaments. She just turned 16 a little over a month ago.

She was also the youngest player ever to win the US Amateur public links, beating a 21 year old in the final when she was 13.

Please write back with your wisdom when she wins her first major LPGA title, which will likely come before her 18th birthday, ok?

Until then, back on ignore you go.

[Anthony]

Am I the only one who finds no real interest in Michelle Wie or her golf game one way or the other?

i get satisfaction out of seeing her fail.

[Super Ugly]

i get satisfaction out of seeing her fail.

Why?

[Anthony]

Why?

i don't like women who insist on playing sports with men. i especially hate overhyped teenagers who think they can do it. and i'm not particularly fond of asians.

[Greyroofoo]

Because I'm insecure.

just a little paraphrasing ;)

[WrongWay]

I took you off ignore just so I could read your babble.

She's finished in the top five of MAJOR tournaments. Multiple major tournaments. She just turned 16 a little over a month ago.

She was also the youngest player ever to win the US Amateur public links, beating a 21 year old in the final when she was 13.

Please write back with your wisdom when she wins her first major LPGA title, which will likely come before her 18th birthday, ok?

Until then, back on ignore you go.
This comming from the same guy who predicted Maurice Clarett would be Denver's starting running back by midseason. And then went on to tell me how I didn't know anything because I claimed Mike Anderson was going to earn the starting job in Denver this offseason.

Hey Wie Warrior, You so crazy.

[BrianD]

I think my biggest problem with Wie is the whole "manufactured hero" syndrome. Golf needs some publicity. It needs some major stories to get people's interest up. This is especially true in Women's Golf. Rather than waiting for a story to develop somewhere, they jump on this young girl who has some major talent but not a lot of experience. They are going to show her name and face everywhere and talk about how she can play with the men. At this point in her life, I'm not even sure she can play with the women yet. If people would let her develop and possibly become a major golf story, I think more people would be interested in her. Since the media has pushed this story on us, I think people like to see her (and the media) fail. People want to pick their own heroes.

[Anthony]

just a little paraphrasing ;)

if guys could play in the women's league i wouldn't have a prob.

there's nothing wrong with keeping things separate. separate can be good sometimes.

[RendeR]

I don't much give a shit about Michelle Wei or golf in general, but for all of you Wie-Warriors and Wei-Bashers:

When you make that amount of money doing something you love doing against the very BEST the sport can offer in the world, yeah, maybe THEN you can open your pie holes.

Till that happens, crawl back under a rock.

[kcchief19]

and i'm not particularly fond of asians. Nice, man. You're a true ambassador for mankind.

[BrianD]

I don't much give a shit about Michelle Wei or golf in general, but for all of you Wie-Warriors and Wei-Bashers:

When you make that amount of money doing something you love doing against the very BEST the sport can offer in the world, yeah, maybe THEN you can open your pie holes.

Till that happens, crawl back under a rock.

From what I can find, her current career earnings are $0.

[Anthony]

I don't much give a shit about Michelle Wei or golf in general, but for all of you Wie-Warriors and Wei-Bashers:

When you make that amount of money doing something you love doing against the very BEST the sport can offer in the world, yeah, maybe THEN you can open your pie holes.

Till that happens, crawl back under a rock.

you don't have to be as good as the artist to be a critic of his/her work.

and so far it seems all that money is much ado about nothing, until she delivers. until she actually achieves something she's no better than Ryan Leaf or any other first round bust who essentially "stole" money cuz they didn't turn out to be the real deal.

[Anthony]

Nice, man. You're a true ambassador for mankind.

i'm entitled to my opinion. you might not come across many where you live, but in NYC, and particularly Flushing, Queens, they've basically have taken over. it's quite insane, really, how many asians are in Queens.

[Anthony]

case in point:

http://www.thirteen.org/queens/images/site_pic9a.jpg

hint...that ain't Shanghai you're looking at.

http://www.southofboston.net/specialreports/chinatown/day2-main.html

[Tekneek]

Wow. She has proven she can never do anything significant? What a great take that is. As if everything about her life hinges on this. Given that, she might as well just off herself since she has proven she will never succeed at anything...according to that blogger.

[Samdari]

From what I can find, her current career earnings are $0.

Off by ~10 million.

You get to spend the money whether it comes from an endorsement contract or tournament purses.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Am I the only one who finds no real interest in golf one way or the other?
Fixed.

[cthomer5000]

i'm entitled to my opinion. you might not come across many where you live, but in NYC, and particularly Flushing, Queens, they've basically have taken over. it's quite insane, really, how many asians are in Queens.
Racism: catch the spirit!

[cthomer5000]

Off by ~10 million.

You get to spend the money whether it comes from an endorsement contract or tournament purses.
Yeah, Brian was just slightly off on that one.

[kcchief19]

Well, Brian was playing a "loophole" in that Wie has no actually winnings because she has competed as an amateur and thus could not claim any winnings from her pro performances. If she had been a pro the last two years, she would have ranked in the top 20 on the LPGA tour in winnings, despite playing in more than eight tournaments per year. This year should would have won around $600,000 and placed 12th -- while in high school.

You don't have to be a fan of Wie's -- this isn't Russia and no one is forcing you. But if you are critizing her based on her performance, the facts suggest that your criticism is based on something else -- jealousy, apparently racism or an inferiority complex -- other than performance.

[streetballer22]

She has come pretty close this time and a previous time in a decent US tournament.

[Joe]

i'm entitled to my opinion. you might not come across many where you live, but in NYC, and particularly Flushing, Queens, they've basically have taken over. it's quite insane, really, how many asians are in Queens.


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v453/Mopower/Awesome.gif

[sovereignstar]

She was born in Hawaii, you fuck knob. She's American.

[BrianD]

Well, Brian was playing a "loophole" in that Wie has no actually winnings because she has competed as an amateur and thus could not claim any winnings from her pro performances. If she had been a pro the last two years, she would have ranked in the top 20 on the LPGA tour in winnings, despite playing in more than eight tournaments per year. This year should would have won around $600,000 and placed 12th -- while in high school.

You don't have to be a fan of Wie's -- this isn't Russia and no one is forcing you. But if you are critizing her based on her performance, the facts suggest that your criticism is based on something else -- jealousy, apparently racism or an inferiority complex -- other than performance.

No loophole, I was just responding to RendeR. She has gotten plenty of endorsements, but to this point she hasn't made any money on the tour yet. True she hasn't been pro very long, but my argument is that she isn't worth the hype yet. She may become worth the hype, and at that point I'll be a fan. The media is trying too hard to make her a star, but it is premature.

[WrongWay]

I will bring up my Anna Kournikova again. Right now Wie has as many golf title as Kournikova does tennis titles.

All flash and no results. A complete flop, you know a bust. Has yet to place in any pro tournament.

I look forward to seeing her compete against boy scout troup 407 next week. Go Michelle. :)

[BrianD]

I will bring up my Anna Kournikova again. Right now Wie has as many golf title as Kournikova does tennis titles.

All flash and no results. A complete flop, you know a bust. Has yet to place in any pro tournament.

I look forward to seeing her compete against boy scout troup 407 next week. Go Michelle. :)

To better explain my position, I agree with the first half of this post, but not the second. I don't think she is all flash, or a bust. She is a 16 (?) year old golfer. She has talent, but she isn't a superstar. She is being positioned as a superstar, but it isn't warranted yet. One of the big knocks on her so far is that she can't perform when it counts. Being 16, that isn't terribly surprising. With all of the media attention she is getting and all of the added pressure, we may see her confidence and golf ability destroyed before it fully develops. I think it would be much better for her if she had stayed in the amateur ranks and continued to develop, but it is hard to turn down the money that was waiting for her. We'll have to wait and see if she ever becomes great.

[kcchief19]

I will bring up my Anna Kournikova again. Right now Wie has as many golf title as Kournikova does tennis titles.

All flash and no results. A complete flop, you know a bust. Has yet to place in any pro tournament.

I look forward to seeing her compete against boy scout troup 407 next week. Go Michelle. :) This is what I meant by lack of facts. In women's PROFESSIONAL majors alone, she has played and qualified in eight tournaments and has four top 10 finishes, including a second place finish at the LPGA Championship. How is that "yet to place in any pro tournament" and "a complete flop, you know a bust?" That's a career for some golfers, and she's just 16.

Wie has played in three men's tournaments and has a scoring average of 71.67. Remarkable for a 16-year-old, regardless of sex. For an interesting comparison, Tiger Woods had a scoring average 74.83 for the first three pro tournaments he played as an amateur at age 16-17.

I don't disagree with the notion that Michelle Wie is getting more attention than her results deserve -- unless you bring age into consideration. If you bring age into the equation, I would content that she is one of if not the most accomplished 16-year-old golfer ever, regardless of sex. That is based on results. How can you knock those results?

The Anna Kournikova comparison is ridiculous. Kournikova was never a prodigy. She didn't get attention with her game -- she got it with her looks. Wie's attention is earned with her game.

Would it be better if she had taken the Tiger approach and maybe gone to college and put off turning pro until she was 20 or 21? Maybe. College might mature her a bit like it clearly did with Tiger. The drawback is that few if any women's college golf programs are very far advanced and she wouldn't have gotten the challenge that Tiger did at Stanford. And at this point, I think there is more pressure on her in amateur tournaments than in pro tournaments -- if she plays a pro tournament, all the eyes are on her, but in an amatuer tournament all the eyes would be on her and anything less than first would be considered a failure.

Like I said, it doesn't matter to me whether you like Wie or not. But I'm not one who will let someone get run down with no facts simply because they are a woman or a minority.

[WrongWay]

Would it be better if she had taken the Tiger approach and maybe gone to college and put off turning pro until she was 20 or 21? Maybe..

You mean an actually won some tournaments? Please tell me about all the major tournaments she has won as a Pro or an Amateur?

Just the facts right?

[Subby]

This thread is a doofus magnet.

[Schmidty]

Men who constantly demean female athletes have tiny ding-dongs.

[Pumpy Tudors]

This thread is a doofus magnet.
This is the correct answer.

[Crapshoot]

HA proves once again that just when you think he's reached the limits of his stupidity, he can discover new levels.

[ThunderingHERD]

I could care less about who will be the next great female golfer for the same reason I could care less about who will be the next great white running back--but some people here are embarrassing themselves with hateful, senseless vitriol.

[Samdari]

You mean an actually won some tournaments? Please tell me about all the major tournaments she has won as a Pro or an Amateur?


She won the USGA women's publinx - an adult championship - as a 13 year old.

And her finishes in 8 events would have placed her in the top 15 on the LPGA tour. Her average finish per start was like 2nd or third best of anybody. She had a good year. Is the hype outpacing her performance so far? Sure, but during most of that time, she had no publicist, and no part of the hype. Should she drop the charade of competing with men? Absolutely, she'll never be more than a fringe PGA player or minor tour player. But come on, give her credit for what she has done.

[TroyF]

This is what I meant by lack of facts. In women's PROFESSIONAL majors alone, she has played and qualified in eight tournaments and has four top 10 finishes, including a second place finish at the LPGA Championship. How is that "yet to place in any pro tournament" and "a complete flop, you know a bust?" That's a career for some golfers, and she's just 16.

Wie has played in three men's tournaments and has a scoring average of 71.67. Remarkable for a 16-year-old, regardless of sex. For an interesting comparison, Tiger Woods had a scoring average 74.83 for the first three pro tournaments he played as an amateur at age 16-17.

I don't disagree with the notion that Michelle Wie is getting more attention than her results deserve -- unless you bring age into consideration. If you bring age into the equation, I would content that she is one of if not the most accomplished 16-year-old golfer ever, regardless of sex. That is based on results. How can you knock those results?

The Anna Kournikova comparison is ridiculous. Kournikova was never a prodigy. She didn't get attention with her game -- she got it with her looks. Wie's attention is earned with her game.

Would it be better if she had taken the Tiger approach and maybe gone to college and put off turning pro until she was 20 or 21? Maybe. College might mature her a bit like it clearly did with Tiger. The drawback is that few if any women's college golf programs are very far advanced and she wouldn't have gotten the challenge that Tiger did at Stanford. And at this point, I think there is more pressure on her in amateur tournaments than in pro tournaments -- if she plays a pro tournament, all the eyes are on her, but in an amatuer tournament all the eyes would be on her and anything less than first would be considered a failure.

Like I said, it doesn't matter to me whether you like Wie or not. But I'm not one who will let someone get run down with no facts simply because they are a woman or a minority.


No idea how he responded to this, but my guess is something along the lines of "SHE HASN'T WON"

As if Tiger had won at the age of 16. (and indeed, you pointed this out in the post, but he certainly won't give you that point)

Hell, look at his first post. Anna Kournikova? Well, it's been mentioned repeatedly, but Wie WON the US Public Link Amateur at the age of 13, the youngest person in history to do so. I'd say that alone blows the Kournikova thing out of the water.

Tiger won his first Major tournament at the age of 21. I'll bet anyone that Wie wins her first LPGA major before that. My guess is she'll be on her third or fourth by that point, considering her success in them now.

I just can't grasp this "she's a flop" thing. She's allowed to take money, she ends up being the 12th ranked womens money winner in less than ten tournaments. That's a bust?

Look, she could just stay at that level, never winning a thing and she's Phil Mickleson. Meaning she'll rip off 2 or 3 wins a year on the tour, finish in the top 3 on the money list and eventually win a major by accident. That's here WORST case scenario. I wish I could flop like that.

[Galaxy]

i'm entitled to my opinion. you might not come across many where you live, but in NYC, and particularly Flushing, Queens, they've basically have taken over. it's quite insane, really, how many asians are in Queens.

This is America, land of the melting pot. We're all mutts.

[GrantDawg]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v76/psychedelicategirl/6thsense.jpg

[Chief Rum]

This thread is a doofus magnet.

You see the irony, right? :D

[WrongWay]

Tiger won his first Major tournament at the age of 21. I'll bet anyone that Wie wins her first LPGA major before that. My guess is she'll be on her third or fourth by that point, considering her success in them now.


I would love to take that bet, but watching her play some crap tournamant like The Casino World Open in Japan shows how low she and her publicity people will sink. So, you are probably right, by the time she is 21 she will probably of won the Hackensack Womens County Open once. ;)

Now if you are saying she will be the #1 ranked golfer in the world by then, I will say your can't miss Denver running back Maurice Clarrett has a better chance of making the Hall of Fame than Wie does of ever being Ranked #1.



See, I understand why the #1 ranked women's golfer in the world Anna Sorenstam would want to play against the men for the competition, but I don't understand why someone who has never won a single major tournament on any level would want to?

[kcchief19]

You mean an actually won some tournaments? Please tell me about all the major tournaments she has won as a Pro or an Amateur?

Just the facts right? She won the USGA women's publinx - an adult championship - as a 13 year old. Oh, snap. And pwned.

When she won the Public Links title, she became the youngest PERSON to win an adult USGA title. By age 16, she had won one adult USGA title and Tiger won two juniors. the biggest difference is that Tiger continued to play junior golf until he was 17. Wie decided the "been there, done that" philosophy was better for here, and chose to play adult and "men" championships instead. She played the Publinx tournament this year instead of the women's Publinx event, losing in the quarterfinals to the eventual champion.

Man, I hate it when facts screw up a good debate. You guys have critized her for not playing well in pro tournaments (false), not winning amateur tournaments (false) and for being Asian (false). Congratulations on a job well done.

If you would stop proving my point, you could certainly build an argument that Wie is overhyped. She is succeeding on pure, raw talent. Her short game is erratic. She has sometimes lost focus in key situations, such as bogeying the final two holes and missing the cut or squandering a lead in match play. She has been accused of being arrogant. Her disqualification earlier this year was seen by some as a lack of understanding of the rules or even a blatant attempt to cheat. As good as she, Morgan Pressel and Paula Creamer may be just as good if not better, but critics say she ducked them by choosing to play adult tournaments rather than junior tournaments.

But no, you choose to go for the sex card.

[WrongWay]

She won the USGA women's publinx - an adult championship - as a 13 year old.

I said major tournament. Not some local thingy.

Here are the 3 major amateur tournament. You win won of these and you can call yourself the best amateur golfer in the world,

1. US Amateur
2. British Amateur
3. NCGA Championship

Tiger won the US Amateur 3 times.


BTW here is the info on Wie's big win :D
The US Women's Publinx is a championship event for golfers who are "publinx" players - that is, who play public links courses rather than belonging to a country club.
I guess that would be like being the Best Men's Softball player out there.

[kcchief19]

I would love to take that bet, but watching her play some crap tournamant like The Casino World Open in Japan shows how low she and her publicity people will sink. Sigh. One of the first professional tournaments Tiger Woods played in as an amateur at age 18 was the Johnnie Walker Asian Classic in Thailand. You don't think that was for publicity and promotion?

See, I understand why the #1 ranked women's golfer in the world Anna Sorenstam would want to play against the men for the competition, but I don't understand why someone who has never won a single major tournament on any level would want to? That's why she has $10 million and you don't. Anyone who can't understand why someone would challenge themselves by going up against the best in the world and and try to beat them will never get it. It's the difference between champions and everybody else. In "Rocky" terms, it's the Eye of the Tiger. If you don't challenge yourself, how do you ever expect to be the best?

That's the point everybody misses about women playing men's events. It has nothing to do with money or fame -- it has to do with challenging and testing yourelf against the best and seeing how you stack up. Anybody who is a winner wants to do that. Mesauring yourself against the best is how you get better.

I'm with Troy -- I have no doubt it is a matter of time before Wie breaks through and wins some women's events, especially now that she's playing for real and not the "novelty." I say there's a 50/50 shot she wins a women's major this year.

[Anthony]

I said major tournament. Not some local thingy.

Here are the 3 major amateur tournament. You win won of these and you can call yourself the best amateur golfer in the world,

1. US Amateur
2. British Amateur
3. NCGA Championship

Tiger won the US Amateur 3 times.


BTW here is the info on Wie's big win :D

I guess that would be like being the Best Men's Softball player out there.

WOW, so, uh, did you have the decency to pull out before you ejaculated from sticking it in kcchief's colon?

[Schmidty]

I said major tournament. Not some local thingy.

Here are the 3 major amateur tournament. You win won of these and you can call yourself the best amateur golfer in the world,

1. US Amateur
2. British Amateur
3. NCGA Championship

Tiger won the US Amateur 3 times.


BTW here is the info on Wie's big win :D

I guess that would be like being the Best Men's Softball player out there.

Bottom line: Wie has done more with her life before the age of 16 then you will do in yours by the time you're dead. Maybe that's what makes you so hostile toward her.

[kcchief19]

I said major tournament. Not some local thingy.

I guess that would be like being the Best Men's Softball player out there. Well, that just shows that you don't know what you're talking about. The USGA PubLinx is actually just a notch below the USGA Amateur -- and several spots ahead of the USGA Junior Amateur. That's right -- the Public Links championship is a bigger championship than than the Junior Amateur. And it's not a "local thingy" -- it's a national championship played exclusively on public courses.

[kcchief19]

WOW, so, uh, did you have the decency to pull out before you ejaculated from sticking it in kcchief's colon?
Bottom line: Wie has done more with her life before the age of 16 then you will do in yours by the time you're dead. Maybe that's what makes you so hostile toward her. Ditto for him too.

[WrongWay]

Well, that just shows that you don't know what you're talking about. The USGA PubLinx is actually just a notch below the USGA Amateur

So, how many times did she win the US Amateur?



Zero
Nada
None
Nill
Zip
...
..
.

[Anthony]

Bottom line: Wie has done more with her life before the age of 16 then you will do in yours by the time you're dead. Maybe that's what makes you so hostile toward her.

what makes me so hostile is yeah, she can drive the ball farther than your average teenage chick, but that in and of itself means jack unless she can win some actual games that matter.

put it this way - if she was a pro golfer in her 30's performing at that level she'd have to have a night time job to help pay the bills.

[Tekneek]

Well, that just shows that you don't know what you're talking about. The USGA PubLinx is actually just a notch below the USGA Amateur -- and several spots ahead of the USGA Junior Amateur. That's right -- the Public Links championship is a bigger championship than than the Junior Amateur. And it's not a "local thingy" -- it's a national championship played exclusively on public courses.

You are really wasting your time. Wrong Way is a troll.

[Pumpy Tudors]

You are really wasting your time. Wrong Way is a troll.
And the worst gimmick that this forum has ever seen.

[Galaxy]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michelle_Wie

Here's a good review of her career so far. Pretty cool of her to donate a half-a-million to the Hurricane victims.

[sterlingice]

This thread is a doofus magnet.
Subby, you magnificent bastard! :)

SI

[TroyF]

what makes me so hostile is yeah, she can drive the ball farther than your average teenage chick, but that in and of itself means jack unless she can win some actual games that matter.

put it this way - if she was a pro golfer in her 30's performing at that level she'd have to have a night time job to help pay the bills.


Sorry HA, but you're off base with this one. Again, had she been allowed to take money she would have finished 12th on the money list for the LPGA in EIGHT events. Keep in mind, most women play 25 or more events each year. If she plays the exact way she played this year in 8 tournaments and carries it over for a full season, she'd finish in the top three on the money list on the LPGA tour.

To put this into perspective, she would have earned $750,000 this year in 8 tournament events. Were she to get into the top five, she'd earn over million for her play RIGHT NOW. This is assuming she never improves. She stays stangnant and never does a single thing better. In other words HA, you are wrong with your assessment. Even taking away her endorsement contract, I'm fairly certain she could live on 3/4 of a million a year without resorting to a part time job.

That's about as likely to happen as Wrong Way winning a Nobel Prize for Literacy. She isn't getting the hype only because she can drive the ball a mile or that she's a 16 year old minority women.

She's getting the hype because at the age of 15, she was not only competing on the LPGA tour, she was in the final groups at major events. And the "she's never won anything" card just rings hollow. How many male athletes have won anything of importance by the time they hit 16? A handful.

I'm with Chief, there is a 50/50 chance this girl wins a major this year. At the age of 16. That's mind boggling.

[sterlingice]

I do have a question and I'm asking this with all sincerity: why are there so many people who get super defensive when someone suggests a woman in sports or a women's league isn't that good? It's like the Swoopes WNBA thread all over again.

People come in and thread crap in NHL and NBA (and soccer, but I don't really view them) threads all the time about how they suck and we just ignore them or give a little harmless razzing back ("hey, don't you have a thread where you can go back to talking about how much the Lions suck", etc). But if you say something about how a women's sport is useless- you clearly have a small penis or are intimidated by women or are a giant bigot. Suddenly it's not about the sport, but you hate all the people in that sport.

Personally, I don't care about Wie because I could give two rips about golf. And even less about women's golf. Why do I like the NCAA tourney and not the women's NCAA tourney when they're practically the same thing? Heck, they've even had a 16 knock off a 1 on the women's side so there are no "unwinnable" games. I don't see CBS forking over $3B for the women's tourney- it's just not as fun to watch and not nearly as mainstream. And that's not because CBS or the rest of society hates women.

SI

[Schmidty]

I do have a question and I'm asking this with all sincerity: why are there so many people who get super defensive when someone suggests a woman in sports or a women's league isn't that good? It's like the Swoopes WNBA thread all over again.

First, I think people get "defensive" about female athletes in the same way that people get "defensive" about other minority groups (not just race) that are under siege for unfair reasons.

Second, I think people would get less upset if the criticism had a solid basis from which to agrue. Whether you like her or not, I don't think it's fair to say that Wei "isn't that good", especially for her age.

[ThunderingHERD]

Now if you are saying she will be the #1 ranked golfer in the world by then, I will say your can't miss Denver running back Maurice Clarrett has a better chance of making the Hall of Fame than Wie does of ever being Ranked #1.


I've seen you mention this several times in this thread, but I'm still not sure what your point is. I mean, obviously it would seem like your point is that because someone has made a bad prediction in the past, anything that they say is irrelevant because they don't have the brilliant foresight/crystal ball that you do. You know, the crystal ball that compels you to vigorously deny that the most successful teenager if the history of women's golf is going to be anything but a complete bust.

But then I realized that couldn't be the case--after all, you have quite a history of being a <a href="http://www.operationsports.com/fofc/showthread.php?t=38885&highlight=2007">laughably cocksure blowhard</a>. And how could you reconcile that with your desperate ad hominem?

I'd stick to the paper thin analogies if I were you.

[WrongWay]

the crystal ball that compels you to vigorously deny that the most successful teenager if the history of women's golf is going to be anything but a complete bust.
The most successful teenager???

Can you please point to a major tournament she has won?

I can find you a couple of dozen tournament she has lost, but no big tournament she has won.

I say she has already peaked physically and will get no better from here. So I will take your bet as I count 4 teenagers that I think will be better the Wei in a couple of years.



Would of been nice if instead of playing in the Casino World Tournament she could of played in the Asia in Lexus Cup. Except for the little Indian girl who has not turned pro yet, this would of brought here face to face with most of the rising stars in women's golf.

[CraigSca]

Did you ask Wie to the prom and she turned you down or something? What gives?

[Joe]

he'd like her if she was white and her name was Michelle Smith

[Tekneek]

Would of been nice if instead of playing in the Casino World Tournament she could of played in the Asia in Lexus Cup. Except for the little Indian girl who has not turned pro yet, this would of brought here face to face with most of the rising stars in women's golf.

And what the hell is this "Would of been nice..." shit?

Don't you mean "Would've been nice..." there?

What does "would of brought" mean?

[CraigSca]

He could of been having trouble with the word "have". Maybe he should of checked a dictionary. He would of responded much more eloquently if he used one.

[Samdari]

I said major tournament. Not some local thingy.

Here are the 3 major amateur tournament. You win won of these and you can call yourself the best amateur golfer in the world,

1. US Amateur
2. British Amateur
3. NCGA Championship


You really go out of your way to prove you are a dumbass.

The publinx is a major, national amateur event. It attracts much the same field as the amateur.

[Samdari]

put it this way - if she was a pro golfer in her 30's performing at that level she'd have to have a night time job to help pay the bills.

Not at all accurate. Had she gotten paid for the 10 events she played in this year, she would have made more - at 16 - than you will ever make in a year. That only counts earned prize money, not endorsements.

[TroyF]

I do have a question and I'm asking this with all sincerity: why are there so many people who get super defensive when someone suggests a woman in sports or a women's league isn't that good? It's like the Swoopes WNBA thread all over again.

People come in and thread crap in NHL and NBA (and soccer, but I don't really view them) threads all the time about how they suck and we just ignore them or give a little harmless razzing back ("hey, don't you have a thread where you can go back to talking about how much the Lions suck", etc). But if you say something about how a women's sport is useless- you clearly have a small penis or are intimidated by women or are a giant bigot. Suddenly it's not about the sport, but you hate all the people in that sport.

Personally, I don't care about Wie because I could give two rips about golf. And even less about women's golf. Why do I like the NCAA tourney and not the women's NCAA tourney when they're practically the same thing? Heck, they've even had a 16 knock off a 1 on the women's side so there are no "unwinnable" games. I don't see CBS forking over $3B for the women's tourney- it's just not as fun to watch and not nearly as mainstream. And that's not because CBS or the rest of society hates women.

SI


I think you'd see the same defensiveness on this were the thread to have been about how horrible Andy Roddick is if this had been made about him when he was 16. This isn't about her being female, a minority or any of that.

This is about the fact she's walked in the final groupings at major events at the age of 15 and you have people spewing out garbage about how she's a bust and how she would have to have a part time job if she played this way in her thirties.

This is just about facts. The fact is, at 15, she accomplished more than many female golfers ever do and it seems like people want to shred her apart for no other reason than petty jealousy. I think it's lunacy and I'm going to comment about it.

Again, were this thread about some white athlete with identical accomplishments I'd bash them to.

As for the Swoops debate, I missed that one, but I'm not sure what someone could say about her. All she's done is win a national title, multiple WNBA titles, gold medals, MVP's, etc. Even if you hate women's basketball, you have to realize she's excelled in that sport like only a handful of women in the history of the game. And again, that has nothing to do with her being a women.

[lighthousekeeper]

...Would of been nice if instead of playing in the Casino World Tournament ...

You doofuses do realize that it's the Casio World Open, not Casino.

:rolleyes:

[WrongWay]

You really go out of your way to prove you are a dumbass.

The publinx is a major, national amateur event. It attracts much the same field as the amateur.
Fine, if this amateur tournament is so great how many times did Tiger Woods play in it during his long amateur career?

I know he won the actual US Amateur 3 times. Funny no one seems to mention Tiger Woods and this little publinx tournament you keep talking about.


Up next Wie goes head to head with the men of the Dade County Retirement Home. :)

[WrongWay]

You doofuses do realize that it's the Casio World Open, not Casino.
Are you sure?

All my links say Casino
http://www.allheadlinenews.com/articles/7001190336

Wie Falls Short At Casino Open



November 26, 2005 2:39 a.m. EST


Danielle George - All Headline News Staff Reporter

Tokyo, Japan (AHN) - Michelle Wie did not make the cut for the Casino World Open. Wie has started six men's professional events but has yet to make the cut.

The 16-year-old had been on target after a first-round 73 but, after bogeying her final two holes on Friday, carded a 75 and finished four over.

Wie says that she is disappointed, by the loss but plans to learn from her mistakes and move on.

"I played as well as I could. I tried my best but things just didn't work out.

"The bogeys I made were pretty stupid. I wish I could've prevented that but obviously it was not meant to be."

[Joe]

http://news.google.com/news?q=casio%20world%20open&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&sa=N&tab=wn

[Tekneek]

Are you sure?

All my links say Casino
http://www.allheadlinenews.com/articles/7001190336

Yes, everyone is sure, big guy. Try going to news.google.com and throwing them both in the search engine. It seems only "All Headline News" has bungled the name. What other URLs were you looking at that have it as "Casino World Open" besides that one?

[WrongWay]

My original article I quoted from Travel Golf.

[WrongWay]

No wonder I couldn't find any more news on this tournament.

I wanted to see if she was competing against any "Real" pro golfers in this tournament. After Woods pretty much guaranteed that anyone should be able to make the cut against this field, you had to wonder what kind of Weekend Warrriors she was going up against.


If someone will do me the honor and tell me how great these golfers are.
First place: Toru Taniguchi
Second Place: Kim Jong Duck


I have never heard of either one of them. Are these golfers I should know?

[cthomer5000]

So... what personal problems are you trying to work through right now?

[Tekneek]

If someone will do me the honor and tell me how great these golfers are.
First place: Toru Taniguchi
Second Place: Kim Jong Duck


I have never heard of either one of them. Are these golfers I should know?

Considering it is part of the Japanese Tour, I suspect only fans of golf on a worldwide basis and those in Japan would have heard of them before. Do you think it proves that Wie is a complete failure in life because Japanese golfers are not household names in the US?

[miami_fan]

You know what is ironic about this thread. It is suggested that Michelle Wie is an overhyped teenager who has not earned nor deserves the attention she has received. Yet a quick search of all the golf threads on this board over the last year reveals that the majority of the threads that involve play on the course involve.....yes you guessed it Michelle Wie. Not Tiger. not Vijay. Not Annika. Not Phil. Not any of the folks who have accomplish great success over a long time. Maybe she is overhyped, maybe she is not. But evidently in this small of corner, she is a rather important part of the golf landscape.

[WrongWay]

Do you think it proves that Wie is a complete failure in life because Japanese golfers are not household names in the US?
I was just trying to show how Wie is searching the Bottom of the Barrel to get her first men's win. Did you miss the fact that I ended most of my messages with a joke about who Wie would be playing next.


In most major golf tournaments I can spot at least 3 or 4 players I have heard of before; no matter what continent they are played on.



UP next on ESPN, Wie goes head to head with the men in St. Mary's amputee ward. ;)

[MIJB#19]

I will bring up my Anna Kournikova again. Right now Wie has as many golf title as Kournikova does tennis titles.

All flash and no results. A complete flop, you know a bust. Has yet to place in any pro tournament.

I look forward to seeing her compete against boy scout troup 407 next week. Go Michelle. :)Don't drag Kournikova into this. She won two ITF tournaments and sixteen doubles' tournaments, including two Australian Open titles.


Maybe we can drag Freddy much-Adu-about nothing into this?

[WrongWay]

Now all we need is someone to bash Crosby and the circle will be complete.

[sterlingice]

As for the Swoops debate, I missed that one, but I'm not sure what someone could say about her. All she's done is win a national title, multiple WNBA titles, gold medals, MVP's, etc. Even if you hate women's basketball, you have to realize she's excelled in that sport like only a handful of women in the history of the game. And again, that has nothing to do with her being a women.
That one was basically a lot of saying "who cares" or "it's the WNBA" and people getting really defensive to that. I just know that in our NHL threads, when it gets thread crapped, we pretty much ignore them but if it's a thread about women's sports, people go nuts.

SI

[vtbub]

I think her free pass comes with her ability at her age.

[GrantDawg]

Now all we need is someone to bash Crosby and the circle will be complete.

I always thought Stills and Nash had more talent.

[Young Drachma]

what makes me so hostile is yeah, she can drive the ball farther than your average teenage chick, but that in and of itself means jack unless she can win some actual games that matter.

put it this way - if she was a pro golfer in her 30's performing at that level she'd have to have a night time job to help pay the bills.

But she's not 30 and that's the point. If she was, no one would care. But she's not and all the other teenager phenoms who are females are fully aware that they couldn't go to a men's tourney and miss the cut by one stroke more than once. Annika couldn't even do that and she's the best in the world.

Wie doesn't go into tournies very battle tested or with a whole lot of momentum and that never helps her cause either. She'll get it together and going pro was smart, because she'll have to play some semblence of a regular schedule.

But consider she'd be in the Top 15 on the LPGA Money List had she been a pro in the events she played, hardly makes her some slouch hack who isn't deserving and someday, that'll be evident.

[kcchief19]

what makes me so hostile is yeah, she can drive the ball farther than your average teenage chick, but that in and of itself means jack unless she can win some actual games that matter.

put it this way - if she was a pro golfer in her 30's performing at that level she'd have to have a night time job to help pay the bills. Correction: she can drive the ball further that almost everyone else her age, male or female. "Average chick" has nothing to do with this. You seem hostile because she's a "chick," and perhaps because she's supposedly "Asian," although I don't think the people of Hawaii consider themselves that.

If she were a male golfer in her 30s, we wouldn't be talking about her because that's not a story. As it is, she is the single-most accomplished female golfer at her age ever. There is an argument to be made that the only more successful golfers at her age ever were Tiger Woods and Jack Nicklaus. Her performance at this point in her career is unprecedented.

You guys are critizing her for not doing things that NO ONE has ever done. Was Tiger Woods a failure at 16 because he hadn't won The Masters yet?

If you can't enjoy watching someone do things in sports that haven't been done before, then I don't know what you enjoy about sports.

[Joe]

Correction: she can drive the ball further that almost everyone else her age, male or female. "Average chick" has nothing to do with this. You seem hostile because she's a "chick," and perhaps because she's supposedly "Asian," although I don't think the people of Hawaii consider themselves that.


She was just born in Hawaii, she is actually Korean. And yes, most Koreans consider themselves Asian.

[Schmidty]

...but if it's a thread about women's sports, people go nuts.

SI

It's because people are unfairly vicious with their criticism, and a large part of the criticism (said or unsaid) is because they're woman. You never hear someone take shots at a male athlete because he's male, it's because he's unathletic, and asshole, too young to come out of college, etc.....

To me, if people don't get that this is wrong, they never will.

[Samdari]

She was just born in Hawaii, she is actually Korean. And yes, most Koreans consider themselves Asian.

Hawaii is part of the United States, not Korea. That makes her American.

[Joe]

Hawaii is part of the United States, not Korea. That makes her American.

So her Korean heritage is wiped away because she was born in Hawaii? LOL

[sovereignstar]

So her Korean heritage is wiped away because she was born in Hawaii? LOL

Yep. You totally nailed it, genius.

[RendeR]

GW bush showing an amazing ability to ignore geography: 2 posts

HA proving once again he's a rascist pig fucker: 5 posts

Wrongway proving he knows next to nothing about Women's golf : 10 posts

KCChief and others smacking down all of the above with well thought out and fact driven arguments:

Priceless.

[Galaxy]

So her Korean heritage is wiped away because she was born in Hawaii? LOL


Kinda like people who say they are "Irish", but they are really Americans with Irish ancestors. But hey, is Tiger Woods Asian because he has Asian roots?

I do say this, I bet Wie can beat the shit out of WrongWay and Hell Atlantic on the course.

As a racing fan, this is happening with Danica Patrick.

[WrongWay]

I am still waiting for someone to tell me all about Wie's tournament win at some little unknown BS amateur tournament. If it is a big amateur tournament how many times did Tiger Woods play in it?

I consider Tiger to be the 2nd greatest Amateur golfer the world has ever seen. I have Bobby Jones as the greatest Amateur golfer of all time, but that was a different time.

No Tiger in this "Puberty-Linx" tournament would mean it probably is some little piece of crap tournament like the "Casino" world open where Wie faild to even make the cut.



Wie will not be playing in the upcomming Asia tournament with Anna in December, but will instead be taking on the Boys from Sunshine Elementary School in a 9 hole tournament. :)

[Samdari]

I am still waiting for someone to tell me all about Wie's tournament win at some little unknown BS amateur tournament. If it is a big amateur tournament how many times did Tiger Woods play in it?

I consider Tiger to be the 2nd greatest Amateur golfer the world has ever seen. I have Bobby Jones as the greatest Amateur golfer of all time, but that was a different time.

No Tiger in this "Puberty-Linx" tournament would mean it probably is some little piece of crap tournament like the "Casino" world open where Wie faild to even make the cut.


Its 80-90% the same exact people who enter the amateur.

Do you have any facts that are actually correct to back up your assertions?

[Butter]

Die thread die!

*plunges stake into heart of thread*

*realizes that this post kept thread alive*

(annoyed grunt)

[WrongWay]

Why can't you just tell me how many times Tiger Woods played in the Puberty-Linx?



I say this is such a crap tournament that elite amateur golfers like Tiger Woods never even bothered with it.

[Joe]

Wie is hot, leave her alone.

[miked]

This could be one of the most retarded threads in history. I think we have a new Bubba. Why do you really care if she wins or loses? If it gives you some personal satisfaction to see people fail, that's really sad. I think you are most likely jealous that she attracts as much attention and $$ when she is 16, but there are about 1000000 people in the world that make as much, if not more $$, and do a lot less for society.

Why don't you spend your time ragging on T.O., Bill O'Reilly, Ken Lay and all the other jackasses that make millions while acting like idiots and criminals.

[rkmsuf]

I didn't even know she was playing. shurg. I was distracted by Fred Funk's skirt.

[Pumpy Tudors]

This thread is now about Jaromir Jagr.

http://img371.imageshack.us/img371/4465/jaromir0ok.jpg

[Joe]

This thread is now about Jaromir Jagr.

WrongWay would hit it.

[st.cronin]

Don't drag Kournikova into this. She won two ITF tournaments and sixteen doubles' tournaments, including two Australian Open titles.


Maybe we can drag Freddy much-Adu-about nothing into this?

Thank you. I am far from a tennis fan, but Kournikova was actually a good tennis player - one of the 25-50 best women players in the world.

[Pumpy Tudors]

I don't care what Jaromir Jagr has won, and I don't care how well he's playing this year. He still sucks.

LOL JAGR LOL

[Raiders Army]

GW bush showing an amazing ability to ignore geography: 2 posts

HA proving once again he's a rascist pig fucker: 5 posts

Wrongway proving he knows next to nothing about Women's golf : 10 posts

KCChief and others smacking down all of the above with well thought out and fact driven arguments:

Priceless.
Nice!

[Anthony]

i'm not racist. i'm prejudiced. there's a difference. i looked it up and i found this little snippet that defined the two:

What is Racism?

The prejudice that members of one race are intrinsically
superior to members of other races ; discriminatory or abusive behavior
towards members of another race.

What is Prejudice?

A partiality that prevents objective consideration of an
issue or situation ; an opinion that is preconceived and
usually unfavorable.

[Schmidty]

What is Prejudice?

A partiality that prevents objective consideration of an
issue or situation ; an opinion that is preconceived and
usually unfavorable.

So basically you are admitting that you're close-minded and unable to see beyond you're own world-view? If so, why should anyone ever take anything you say seriously?

[RendeR]

Wrongway:

Why should anyone prove Wei's worth based on Tiger Woods? They are entirely different players from different worlds. They do no correlate to one another in any way. They took differeing paths to get to where they are now and where they were at age 16.

A true comparison was done 3 pages back that shows at age 16 Wei has done far more than Tiger, given time, I have little doubt she will be a highly respected and feared golfer. its too bad she makes you feel so inferior.

Just because Tiger didn't play in a given tournament does not invalidate that tournaments stature in the golfing world, and if you new your putter from that toothpick you seem to have for a penis, you MIGHt just understand that. Stop letting a 16 yr old girl take away what little dignity you may still still retain.

[RendeR]

i'm not racist. i'm prejudiced. there's a difference. i looked it up and i found this little snippet that defined the two:

What is Racism?

The prejudice that members of one race are intrinsically
superior to members of other races ; discriminatory or abusive behavior
towards members of another race.

What is Prejudice?

A partiality that prevents objective consideration of an
issue or situation ; an opinion that is preconceived and
usually unfavorable.
But HA, you statted that you dislike her BECAUSE YOU DISLIKE ASIANS.

therfore your "prejudice" IS racist by definition.

[st.cronin]

If wrongway was aware of how his posts made him appear, he would stfu immediately. I hope he doesn't; he's kind of entertaining.

[Anthony]

But HA, you statted that you dislike her BECAUSE YOU DISLIKE ASIANS.

therfore your "prejudice" IS racist by definition.

so then i'm racist, whatever. i prefer to be around certain kinds of people, and prefer to not be around others. if that's a classic definition of "racism" then far be it for me to argue.

yet there is no hatred. i don't act on that hatred. i don't go out of my way really to act with any sort of malicious animosity towards people i don't like. i only discuss my dislike for certain types of people in my own circles with likeminded friends and family. this really isn't an issue, it's actually quite a waste of time on your/anyone else's part to discuss it any further because further discussion won't change my views/opinions. :)

[rkmsuf]

For example, anyone with a Subway Club Card is ok by HA.

[ThunderingHERD]

What's more entertaining WrongWay's steadfast ignorance is how he continues to make the same unfunny jokes.

[RendeR]

so then i'm racist, whatever. i prefer to be around certain kinds of people, and prefer to not be around others. if that's a classic definition of "racism" then far be it for me to argue.

yet there is no hatred. i don't act on that hatred. i don't go out of my way really to act with any sort of malicious animosity towards people i don't like. i only discuss my dislike for certain types of people in my own circles with likeminded friends and family. this really isn't an issue, it's actually quite a waste of time on your/anyone else's part to discuss it any further because further discussion won't change my views/opinions. :)

Just because you don't "hate" people doesn't alleviate you from being a racist, it also doesn't make being a racist right.

[Anthony]

Just because you don't "hate" people doesn't alleviate you from being a racist, it also doesn't make being a racist right.

this isn't a standardized test, there is no right or wrong. all preference and opinion. you aren't right if you prefer cats over dogs. and by prefering cats to dogs doesn't necessarily make you prejudiced or prone to hatred towards dogs. there is no right or wrong to prefering to surround yourself with whom/whatever you choose to surround yourself with.

which is why you wasting time to write "you're a racist" or write "you're wrong" is indeed just that - a waste of time. i'm firm in my beliefs (although always open to considering different angles), if my beliefs were so frivolous and weak that they could be easily changed by someone expressing distaste for my personal opinions/preferences in a message board then i'd never be able to make up my own mind on any given topic without consulting popular opinion first.

leave it be.

[Joe]

I thought you were asian, HA?

[Anthony]

I thought you were asian, HA?

unfortunately no, not asian. i'm half italian, half spanish. :)

[kcchief19]

this isn't a standardized test, there is no right or wrong. all preference and opinion. you aren't right if you prefer cats over dogs. and by prefering cats to dogs doesn't necessarily make you prejudiced or prone to hatred towards dogs. there is no right or wrong to prefering to surround yourself with whom/whatever you choose to surround yourself with.

which is why you wasting time to write "you're a racist" or write "you're wrong" is indeed just that - a waste of time. i'm firm in my beliefs (although always open to considering different angles), if my beliefs were so frivolous and weak that they could be easily changed by someone expressing distaste for my personal opinions/preferences in a message board then i'd never be able to make up my own mind on any given topic without consulting popular opinion first.

leave it be. You're wasting time defending youself. Leave it be.

Oh, wait. I forgot. That would mean stepping out of the limelight. My bad. Go about your business then.

[Anthony]

You're wasting time defending youself. Leave it be.

Oh, wait. I forgot. That would mean stepping out of the limelight. My bad. Go about your business then.

i prefer to talk about my dislike of Wie and wanting to see her overrated ass fail.

[Raiders Army]

i prefer to talk about my dislike of Wie and wanting to see her overrated ass fail.
At least it's not an overweight ass. That would be worse.

[WrongWay]

What's more entertaining WrongWay's steadfast ignorance is how he continues to make the same unfunny jokes.
Unfunny, now that is just rude. :)

[Subby]

Unfunny, now that is just rude. :) What was your screenname before you became WrongWay? My vote is Mrs Kippy, but I would be interested to see who you were...

[WrongWay]

What was your screenname before you became WrongWay? My vote is Mrs Kippy, but I would be interested to see who you were...
I don't understand the refrence as this probably pre-dates me. But, I will tell you I am a man if you haven't figured that out already. And, I only post here under one name...WrongWay


Don't feel bad subby; The all powerfull one himself, Jim, blasted me and accused me of being "One of the Usual suspects" on a comment I made about last years "No Release" of TCY2. Had something to do with what happened over 3 years ago. Since I wasn't here then I had no clue as to what the hell he was talking about.

Whatever.



BTW-- RendeR
Why should anyone prove Wei's worth based on Tiger Woods? I was talking about Tiger to prove that the "Puberty-Linxs" tournament was a crap tournament that Tiger would of never lowered his standards to play as an amateur.

In one of my comments I asked what Wei had ever won. And, someone out there dug this crap tournament up as proof she was a winner? :rolleyes:




And I still like the phrase "would of" :p

[Raiders Army]

Talk about digging a hole deeper...

[RendeR]

I don't understand the refrence as this probably pre-dates me. But, I will tell you I am a man if you haven't figured that out already. And, I only post here under one name...WrongWay


Don't feel bad subby; The all powerfull one himself, Jim, blasted me and accused me of being "One of the Usual suspects" on a comment I made about last years "No Release" of TCY2. Had something to do with what happened over 3 years ago. Since I wasn't here then I had no clue as to what the hell he was talking about.

Whatever.



BTW-- RendeR
I was talking about Tiger to prove that the "Puberty-Linxs" tournament was a crap tournament that Tiger would of never lowered his standards to play as an amateur.

In one of my comments I asked what Wei had ever won. And, someone out there dug this crap tournament up as proof she was a winner? :rolleyes:




And I still like the phrase "would of" :p
And you still ignore the fact that thousands of people, far more knowledgable about golf than say: You, believe that its not a crap tournament, that it is a major event and unfortunately for you, Tiger Woods isn't the do all and end all of Golfing in the universe. perhaps you need to pull your head out of his ass long enough to comprehend that.

And "Could Of" is not a phrase, its an incomplete fracture of the language and you simply prove your stupidity by maintaining its validity.

Sheesh, you'd think even a rock would HAVE learned by now.

[Huckleberry]

Comparing Wei to Woods at age 16 is not a good strategy because it ignores the fact that females develop differently than males.

Martina Hingis > Pete Sampras if you follow that line of reasoning.

Just a minor point of fact.

Please do not mistake this post to mean that I am on the same side of the argument as our clearly obsessed friend.

[Schmidty]

Hey WrongWay - Do you still wear nurse's shoes?

[WrongWay]

Hey WrongWay - Do you still wear nurse's shoes?
What.




RendeR.. Thousand people my ass...Maybe you and the other 999 Nike employees. You Foot Locker employee of the month wanna-be. :D

[RendeR]

What.




RendeR.. Thousand people my ass...Maybe you and the other 999 Nike employees. You Foot Locker employee of the month wanna-be. :D
You could at least come out and admit that you have no factual basis for your opinion and that it is nothing more than your dislike of Wei that drives your insanity.

Then we'd probably stop blasting your unfounded opinions to shreds and you could stop making yourself look like more of a complete ass than you already have.



nevermind, I'm not sure you can anymore.....

[Joe]

And "Could Of" is not a phrase, its an incomplete fracture of the language and you simply prove your stupidity by maintaining its validity.




At least he's not the only one making that mistake of the english language:

http://www.operationsports.com/fofc/showpost.php?p=971004&postcount=64

[RendeR]

At least he's not the only one making that mistake of the english language:

http://www.operationsports.com/fofc/showpost.php?p=971004&postcount=64
No but he's the only one trying to defend its use in some ignorant way. So he gets the hammer. Schmidty, meh, he's just a casualty of friendly fire.

[WrongWay]

No but he's the only one trying to defend its use in some ignorant way. So he gets the hammer. Schmidty, meh, he's just a casualty of friendly fire.
WTF are you taking about?

What defense? I smell a civil servant in our ranks. Cliff Claven is that you? :D

[kcchief19]

I was talking about Tiger to prove that the "Puberty-Linxs" tournament was a crap tournament that Tiger would of never lowered his standards to play as an amateur. Actually, many future pros play the U.S Publinx. Billy Mayfair won it one year, but you probably don't know who that is given your golf knowledge.

The reason Tiger never played the Publinx is that the qualifying overlaps with the Junior Amateur and the tournaments are held consecutively. If Tiger wanted to try to do a double win, he would have had to play in the Publinx for 6 straight days including 36-hole match play, then travel to the Junior Amateur and do it again. That's too grueling. So once he was older he played the Junior Amateur and Men's Amateur. Most juniors play the junior amateur until they are too old and then play in the Publinx if they want to. In 2004 Ryan Moore won both the Amateur and the APL. Again, he's a great young player so I doubt you would know who he was.

As for Tiger not playing "crap tournaments," his own Web site shows with great pride his championship in the Optimist International Junior World and the Insurance Youth Golf Classic and Orange Bowl Junior International. Never heard of those? Me neither.

[Pumpy Tudors]

Die thread die!

*plunges stake into heart of thread*

*realizes that this post kept thread alive*

(annoyed grunt)
!!!

[Anthony]

!!!

then why you still reading? :confused:

[Pumpy Tudors]

then why you still reading? :confused:
!!!

[GrantDawg]

then why you still reading? :confused:
Because this is just one of those threads. You know. Like the really dumb friend who keeps trying to impress a girl in really idiotic ways. You really don't want to look because it is painfull, but you keep looking just to see how stupid he gets.

[Axxon]

this isn't a standardized test, there is no right or wrong. all preference and opinion. you aren't right if you prefer cats over dogs. and by prefering cats to dogs doesn't necessarily make you prejudiced or prone to hatred towards dogs. there is no right or wrong to prefering to surround yourself with whom/whatever you choose to surround yourself with.

which is why you wasting time to write "you're a racist" or write "you're wrong" is indeed just that - a waste of time. i'm firm in my beliefs (although always open to considering different angles), if my beliefs were so frivolous and weak that they could be easily changed by someone expressing distaste for my personal opinions/preferences in a message board then i'd never be able to make up my own mind on any given topic without consulting popular opinion first.

leave it be.

As much as it pains me to do so, I agree with HA on this one.

The issue came to mind a while back when I read someone call someone else a racist because they wouldn't have sex with someone of a different race.

WHOA!

So, I am somehow prejudiced against homosexuals unless I sleep with a man?

This is where this political correctness attitude is heading.

I found the definitions worthy of comment too.


What is Racism?

The prejudice that members of one race are intrinsically
superior to members of other races ; discriminatory or abusive behavior
towards members of another race.

The first part is truly absurd. It has no practical reality. It simply addresses thoughts not actions. It's a thought police concept.

Hey, I don't care how superior you think you are because of your race. That being equal. you'd think the same thing because of my address or my religion or my paycheck or my whatever anyway so we have that territory well covered.

Just don't hold me being me against me.

That's all I want. I don't want to be invited to your house; I don't like you all that much either.

Where does HA admit to breaking part two of the definition which is the valid one?

He can root for an asian to lose but how is that discriminatory or abusive?

I don't think it is


What is Prejudice?

A partiality that prevents objective consideration of an
issue or situation ; an opinion that is preconceived and
usually unfavorable.


I really, really like this.

I've always said everyone is prejudiced because I've always thought of the first definition and you can't exist without partialities because to exist means to experience and we color our reality with our experiences.

The second one lost me on unfavorable. If the view is only unfavorable then see the racist definition and go from there. But the common prejudice that asians are smart fits everything but the last part and I'd consider it a prejudice as well.

[Anthony]

As much as it pains me to do so, I agree with HA on this one.

The issue came to mind a while back when I read someone call someone else a racist because they wouldn't have sex with someone of a different race.

WHOA!

So, I am somehow prejudiced against homosexuals unless I sleep with a man?

This is where this political correctness attitude is heading.

I found the definitions worthy of comment too.



The first part is truly absurd. It has no practical reality. It simply addresses thoughts not actions. It's a thought police concept.

Hey, I don't care how superior you think you are because of your race. That being equal. you'd think the same thing because of my address or my religion or my paycheck or my whatever anyway so we have that territory well covered.

Just don't hold me being me against me.

That's all I want. I don't want to be invited to your house; I don't like you all that much either.

Where does HA admit to breaking part two of the definition which is the valid one?

He can root for an asian to lose but how is that discriminatory or abusive?

I don't think it is



I really, really like this.

I've always said everyone is prejudiced because I've always thought of the first definition and you can't exist without partialities because to exist means to experience and we color our reality with our experiences.

The second one lost me on unfavorable. If the view is only unfavorable then see the racist definition and go from there. But the common prejudice that asians are smart fits everything but the last part and I'd consider it a prejudice as well.

very well written, and well thought out. i don't mind taking this discussion further if other posts could be just like yours (not cuz you agree with me, but because you cast no judgement on me for my opinions).

That's all I want. I don't want to be invited to your house; I don't like you all that much either.

this is essentially what i'm about. that line is basically the extent of my "prejudice". i'm not going to go around lighting crosses on fire, if i were a hiring manager i wouldn't not hire someone based on their race. pure racism precludes someone from accepting another, under any circumstance. the hatred is a underlying current in that person's world - it's something they can't get past. myself, on the other hand, have my preferences, nothing more and nothing less. that means someone from a group that i prefer not to associate with is not automatically written off in my book - a good person is a good person in my view and i'll break bread with any good person.

my point is this is a big world, lots of space and room to spread out - enough room where i don't feel i need to associate with anyone i don't want to associate with. it's big enough where i can live my life out with the people i choose to be in my social circle and be content with that. i accept people on my own time - i don't like having people forced down my throat for the sake of political correctness.

also, and i've said this on several occasions, i'm a very tolerant person. i tolerate people of other races, religion and sexual preference. my belief is that i have no right to tread on another person's happiness. someone who is actually racist wants to deny other people's right to happiness. so i take exception when someone uses that word on me, not only for it's negative connotation, but due to it being such an extreme way of describing my opinions. so again, it's just a matter of there's people i prefer associating with in my social circle, and others i prefer not to associate with.

[Subby]

Don't feel bad subby; The all powerfull one himself, Jim, blasted me and accused me of being "One of the Usual suspects" on a comment I made about last years "No Release" of TCY2. Had something to do with what happened over 3 years ago. Since I wasn't here then I had no clue as to what the hell he was talking about. Okay, well kippy was a complete fucking imbecile, so you'll understand how I made what I thought was a logical conclusion.

[WrongWay]

The reason Tiger never played the Publinx is that the qualifying overlaps with the Junior Amateur and the tournaments are held consecutively. If Tiger wanted to try to do a double win, he would have had to play in the Publinx for 6 straight days including 36-hole match play, then travel to the Junior Amateur and do it again. That's too grueling.
That is very interesting as a post above yours claimed this
Its 80-90% the same exact people who enter the amateur.

I knew I was right all along and everyone else was wrong. :D

So, which one of you is lying their ass off?

[Axxon]

That is very interesting as a post above yours claimed this

I knew I was right all along and everyone else was wrong. :D

So, which one of you is lying their ass off?

So Tiger himself is actually more than 10-20% of the people who enter the amateur?

Thats the only way you can use this quote


Its 80-90% the same exact people who enter the amateur.


as any type of "proof" of anything in regards to the first statement which explained why he didn't play it. There could only be four people who enter the amateurs because if there were five and he didn't play but the rest did then still the 80 % statement would be correct.

Ah well, with scintillating logic like this it doesn't surprise me that you'd realize that literally everyone thought differently than you. That's no accident.

On the good side, HA will never mistake you for an asian for as we all know, they're smart. :D

[kcchief19]

That is very interesting as a post above yours claimed this

I knew I was right all along and everyone else was wrong. :D

So, which one of you is lying their ass off? Re-read ... it's the JUNIOR amateur that overlaps with the Publinx, not the adult amateur. Players are much more likely to play both the amateur and Publinx, but very unlikely to play both the Publinx and the Junior Amateur. I don't know the percentage of players who play both, but the fact is that the Publinx field is more competive than the Junior Amateur.

This thread will never die. This and the Harry Potter to DVD prediction thread will eternal reminders of the prognosticating powers of WrongWay.

[kcchief19]

So, I am somehow prejudiced against homosexuals unless I sleep with a man? No. You're kind of comparing apples to oranges -- sexuality and race are two separate issues. Is a Catholic automatically prejudiced against Lutherans because they don't go to the same church? I don't like roller coasters, so does that make me prejudiced against carnival workers? No. But if I said I hate carnival workers and I don't want want to be around them, then yes I would be prejudiced.

Let me be clear -- I don't grant the above definitions of racism and prejudice. I don't know where they came from, but I think they are highly flawed.



rac·ism http://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/AHD4/JPG/pron.jpg (https://secure.reference.com/premium/login.html?rd=2&u=http%3A%2F%2Fdictionary.reference.com%2Fsearch%3Fq%3Dracism) ( P ) Pronunciation Key (http://dictionary.reference.com/help/ahd4/pronkey.html) (rhttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/AHD4/GIF/amacr.gifhttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/AHD4/GIF/prime.gifshttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/AHD4/GIF/ibreve.gifzhttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/AHD4/GIF/lprime.gifhttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/AHD4/GIF/schwa.gifm)
n.
The belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability and that a particular race is superior to others.
Discrimination or prejudice based on race.
prej·u·dice http://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/AHD4/JPG/pron.jpg (https://secure.reference.com/premium/login.html?rd=2&u=http%3A%2F%2Fdictionary.reference.com%2Fsearch%3Fq%3Dprejudiced) ( P ) Pronunciation Key (http://dictionary.reference.com/help/ahd4/pronkey.html) (prhttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/AHD4/GIF/ebreve.gifjhttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/AHD4/GIF/prime.gifhttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/AHD4/GIF/schwa.gif-dhttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/AHD4/GIF/ibreve.gifs)
n.

An adverse judgment or opinion formed beforehand or without knowledge or examination of the facts.
A preconceived preference or idea.

The act or state of holding unreasonable preconceived judgments or convictions. See Synonyms at predilection (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=predilection).
Irrational suspicion or hatred of a particular group, race, or religion.
Detriment or injury caused to a person by the preconceived, unfavorable conviction of another or others.

Where does HA admit to breaking part two of the definition which is the valid one?
so then i'm racist, whatever. i prefer to be around certain kinds of people, and prefer to not be around others. if that's a classic definition of "racism" then far be it for me to argue. HA himself admitted he is prejudiced, and that prejudice is based on race, which to many pretty much slams the book shut -- it's the textbook definition of racism.

[Anthony]

i'm very prejudiced, for the record. this isn't something you're likely to see me being ashamed about. the world is a big place, can't like everyone. that's what Utopia is for.

[Axxon]

No. You're kind of comparing apples to oranges -- sexuality and race are two separate issues. Is a Catholic automatically prejudiced against Lutherans because they don't go to the same church? I don't like roller coasters, so does that make me prejudiced against carnival workers? No. But if I said I hate carnival workers and I don't want want to be around them, then yes I would be prejudiced.

Let me be clear -- I don't grant the above definitions of racism and prejudice. I don't know where they came from, but I think they are highly flawed.


Ok, well, you're now trying to adjectivise the argument. Racism, sexism etc, these are adjectives that describe the real issue, discrimination. Anything else is semantics.

Are we discussing apples and oranges? Yep, they're both fruit.



HA himself admitted he is prejudiced, and that prejudice is based on race, which to many pretty much slams the book shut -- it's the textbook definition of racism.

So, if you won't sleep with a man then you're admitting a prejudice and it's a prejudice that's based on sex, which to many pretty much slams the book shut -- it's a textbook definition of sexism.

Now, are you a sexist or will you sleep with a man ( assuming you're not a homosexual of course ) you know, so you won't be labelled as such?

Nope, so you're sexist. Would you actively use this built in bias to do harm to someone of the same sex? I'm presuming no and therein lies the real issue. Neither would HA by his own admission harm an asian on that basis alone.

All I'm saying is that IMHO HA is the more honest one in the discussion.

[Anthony]

i think it's remarkable at how well Axxon has debated this issue. well done. i'd like to read more on what you have to say on the topic, you've exhibited the ability to cut through the bs and nonsense and your posts are in tune with what i've been trying to say.

[Axxon]

i think it's remarkable at how well Axxon has debated this issue. well done. i'd like to read more on what you have to say on the topic, you've exhibited the ability to cut through the bs and nonsense and your posts are in tune with what i've been trying to say.

Thanks HA. I really have given the issue a lot of thought and have tons I'd like to say but I'm better off responding to posts than exrapolating. It's hard enough forming my thoughts into a hopefully understandable form when I have a clear goal to shoot for.

I think it would really hard to take the lead and have to deal with all the shots that my thoughts would deservedly get. Deservedly in the fact that any position put forward should be challenged not that my thoughts are suspect. I think I like taking the shots a little bit better. :)

I would like to ask one thing. I have always had better responses with this from minorities than from ( here goes a loaded term but I don't have a better more neutral one ) the white apologists. I think it's because what I'm describing is really all we're really asking for and for the most part anything else isn't fair. Nobody in general wants preferential treatment and no one particularly enjoys granting it but when we travel this semantic road we're ensuring that this is what's going to happen and neither side is going to be happy with the results.

You simply cannot control what a person feels, only what he does and it's a foolish endeavor to force someone to feel a certain way. It's even worse to try and force some bogus "loyalty oath" kind of speech in order to avoid a pretty undeserved label.

I will quote the great Hank Hill now. "My god Peggy, what kind of world is it when you can't hate a man unless he's white."

[Axxon]

Is a Catholic automatically prejudiced against Lutherans because they don't go to the same church?


Actually, I don't know about Lutherans but there's evidence that this may be so.

From the absolutely fantastic Tom Lehrer in his 1965 album That Was the Year That Was.


One week of every year is designated National Brotherhood Week. This is just one of many such weeks honoring various worthy causes. One of my favorites is National Make-fun-of-the-handicapped Week which Frank Fontaine and Jerry Lewis are in charge of as you know. During National Brotherhood Week various special events are arranged to drive home the message of brotherhood. This year, for example, on the first day of the week Malcolm X was killed which gives you an idea of how effective the whole thing is. I'm sure we all agree that we ought to love one another and I know there are people in the world that do not love their fellow human beings and I hate people like that. Here's a song about National Brotherhood Week.

Oh, the white folks hate the black folks,
And the black folks hate the white folks.
To hate all but the right folks
Is an old established rule.

But during National Brotherhood Week, National Brotherhood Week,
Lena Horne and Sheriff Clarke are dancing cheek to cheek.
It's fun to eulogize
The people you despise,
As long as you don't let 'em in your school.

Oh, the poor folks hate the rich folks,
And the rich folks hate the poor folks.
All of my folks hate all of your folks,
It's American as apple pie.

But during National Brotherhood Week, National Brotherhood Week,
New Yorkers love the Puerto Ricans 'cause it's very chic.
Step up and shake the hand
Of someone you can't stand.
You can tolerate him if you try.

Oh, the Protestants hate the Catholics,
And the Catholics hate the Protestants,
And the Hindus hate the Moslems,
And everybody hates the Jews.

But during National Brotherhood Week, National Brotherhood Week,
It's National Everyone-smile-at-one-another-hood Week.
Be nice to people who
Are inferior to you.
It's only for a week, so have no fear.
Be grateful that it doesn't last all year!


The fact about Malcolm X is dead true. He was killed on the first day of national brotherhood week. That's irony.

Note how the catholics feel about the protestants. They're both christians. No wait, protestants don't consider catholics christians so they can hate them. My point is, using religion as a counter to race is not really a good way to go.

Ok, my real point is to point out Tom Lehrer one of the truly great ones. :)

[Schmidty]

I will quote the great Hank Hill now. "My god Peggy, what kind of world is it when you can't hate a man unless he's white."

I love King of the Hill. It's one of my favorite shows, and I love that quote; however, you are using it out of context and it no way supports your and HA's arguments.

Hank was making a very cogent remark about how political correctness has gone overboard in the way people search for a means to unfairly vilify and twist someone's words because of racial differences. Hank didn't say "My god Peggy, what kind of world is it when you can't hate being around a certain racial group unless they're white?", which is essentially what you and HA are saying (although it seems that you are trying to make it more palatable by using the phrase "not comfortable").

It is your choice and right to be prejudiced or "uncomfortable" toward certain races or cultures, but other people have the same right to call you out on it.

[Schmidty]

By the way, I need to go to bed, but I'll read your likely 10 page rebuttal tommorrow. For the record though, I have no desire to get into a prolonged argument with you over the issues in this thread, since we have both stated our views and neither one of us is going to budge.

I just had to comment on the KotH quote, because I can't stand by and watch Hank's name get dragged through the mud. :)

[Axxon]

I love King of the Hill. It's one of my favorite shows, and I love that quote; however, you are using it out of context and it no way supports your and HA's arguments.

Hank was making a very cogent remark about how political correctness has gone overboard in the way people search for a means to unfairly vilify and twist someone's words because of racial differences. Hank didn't say "My god Peggy, what kind of world is it when you can't hate being around a certain racial group unless they're white?", which is essentially what you and HA are saying (although it seems that you are trying to make it more palatable by using the phrase "not comfortable").

It is your choice and right to be prejudiced or "uncomfortable" toward certain races or cultures, but other people have the same right to call you out on it.

Well, hate is an extremely strong way to describe what HA is talking about. For the record I haven't expressed any feelings regarding any race. I've simply expressed that any race has the freedom to have prejudices as they will as long as they don't harm anyone by having them.

I am willing to allow people that freedom. I won't express negative feelings at someone simply because they may have a built in bias towards me. In my life, more often than not, being myself has been enough to overcome those biases. I'm happy with my track record.

What we're talking about here is this. Stereotypes. People form opinions based on stereotypes and form likes and dislikes based on the stereotype. Even the religious hatred is fueled by stereotypes. Ditto the political hatred. Everyone users stereotypes and it's pretty near impossible not to be at least aware of them if not influenced by them.

Most people, however, are intelligent enough to judge someone they meet vs the stereotype and when they don't meet the criteria of the stereotype they are ok.

That's how you get the guy who's prejudiced against blacks but who's best friend is a black man. He'll say, "Oh, I hate ni%%ers but Joe, oh no, he's not a ni%%er, he's good people." We all know this happens all the time.

What he's saying is he dislikes the stereotype of the Young Urban Culture but Joe, not being of that culture is a solid person in the persons view. This is life and plays out in so many ways it's incredible. We all form loyalties and we form them around different prejudices that we've acquired in our lives.

As long as the person is willing to judge against the stereotype as opposed to arbitrarily judge based on the stereotype then as far as I'm concerned we're on solid ground. It's fine for us to do this with any criteria that we may or may not like. There's nothing wrong with it and it's natural. Once we do the latter though, then there's a problem if we act on that judgement.

[Axxon]

By the way, I need to go to bed, but I'll read your likely 10 page rebuttal tommorrow. For the record though, I have no desire to get into a prolonged argument with you over the issues in this thread, since we have both stated our views and neither one of us is going to budge.

I just had to comment on the KotH quote, because I can't stand by and watch Hank's name get dragged through the mud. :)

Don't worry, if the thought is right it doesn't take 10 pages to argue it so my response is suitably short.

I'll admit though on retrospection that I did indeed did a disservice to Hank by stealing his quote and using it in a different context. I'll retract that one. :)

[Young Drachma]

Wow..I just came in to see what all the hoopla that was going on. Geez. :)

[Axxon]

You know, I don't like lawyers. I really can't stand them. Read these.


A Dublin lawyer died in poverty and many barristers of the city subscribed to a fund for his funeral. The Lord Chief Justice of Orbury was asked to donate a shilling. "Only a shilling?" said the Justice, "Only a shilling to bury an attorney? Here's a guinea; go and bury 20 more of them."

A lawyer and a physician had a dispute over precedence. They referred it to Diogenes, who gave it in favor of the lawyer as follows: "Let the thief go first, and the executioner follow."

"How can I ever thank you?" gushed a woman to Clarence Darrow, after he had solved her legal troubles.

"My dear woman," Darrow replied, "ever since the Phoenicians invented money there has been only one answer to that question."

"You seem to have more than the average share of intelligence for a man of your background," sneered the lawyer at a witness on the stand.

"If I wasn't under oath, I'd return the compliment," replied the witness.

Diogenes went to look for an honest lawyer. "How's it going?", someone asked. "Not too bad", said Diogenes. "I still have my lantern."

The defendent who pleads their own case has a fool for a client, but at least there will be no problem with fee-splitting.

God decided to take the devil to court and settle their differences once and for all.

When Satan heard this, he laughed and said, "And where do you think you're going to find a lawyer?"

Santa Claus, the tooth fairy, an honest lawyer and an old drunk are walking down the street together when they simultaneously spot a hundred dollar bill. Who gets it? The old drunk, of course, the other three are mythological creatures.

------------------------- cut here and insert in wallet --------------------

Ben Dover
And
C. Howlett Fields

Attorneys At Law

---------------------------------------------------------------------------


When a lawyer tells his clients he has a sliding fee schedule what he means is that after he bills you it's financially hard to get back on your feet.

It was so cold last winter that I saw a lawyer with his hands in his own pockets.

A man walked into a bar with his alligator and asked the bartender, "Do you serve lawyers here?".

"Sure do," replied the bartender.

"Good," said the man. "Give me a beer, and I'll have a lawyer for my 'gator."

There was the cartoon showing two people fighting over a cow. One was pulling the cow by the tail; the other was pulling on the horns. Underneath was a lawyer milking the cow.

If you laid all of the lawyers in the world, end to end, on the equator ---- It would be a good idea to just leave them there.

Legal business card:

Dewey, Cheatham, & Howe Attorneys at Law

A countryman between two lawyers is like a fish between two cats.

...Benjamin Franklin.


Yep, can't stand em. I mean, we have people on this board I respect and enjoy reading who are in the legal profession but they're not, you know, lawyers. No, they're good people. Lawyers suck.

[Axxon]

Did anyone mention blondes? Wow, they're so dumb.


Q: Why did the blonde die in a helicopter crash?
A: She got cold and turned off the fan.

Q: Why did the blonde have square tits?
A: Because she forgot to take the tissues out of the boxes.

Q: Did you hear about the blonde that invented the solar flashlight?
Submitted by: Anthony Sandoval

Q: What do you call a blonde with half a brain?
A: Gifted!

Q: How do blonde brain cells die?
A: Alone.

Q: What do you call a blonde with 2 brain cells?
A: Pregnant.

Q: What was the blonde psychic's greatest achievement?
A: An IN-body experience!

Q: What does a blonde and a beer bottle have in common?
A: They're both empty from the neck up.

Q: What's the difference between a blonde and a supermarket trolley?
A: The supermarket trolley has a mind of its own.

Q: Why do blondes wear their hair up?
A: To catch everything that goes over their heads.

Q: How do you make a blonde's eyes light up?
A: Shine a flashlight in their ear.

Q: How do you get a blondes eyes to twinkle?
A: Shine a torch in her ears.


Ok, I hope these jokes amuse a little bit but I picked the first of the google lot so they're not so good. :) It does make my point though. We're human. We need to feel superior and we'll judge against the stereotype no matter what it's based on, laugh, feel good about ourselves and go on with life.

We're not a pleasant species. We laugh at peoples pain, embarassment and even their death. We mock that which we don't perceive as us. We are xenophobic to a fault.

But again, most of us know where the line is drawn and where a disservice is being done and most of us won't cross that line. Calling out the people who won't cross the line while there are still those who are dancing all over both sides of the line is doing a disservice. It's trivializing a very real problem because those who may not realize there's a real problem going on will listen to your false protestations and go "what the hell are they talking about"?

[st.cronin]

I don't think it is useful to suggest (or, for that matter, true) that HA is wrong or bad for holding the views he does and behaving the way he does.

The criticism he faces has two aspects. First, irrational discrimination is bad for the agent (HA in this case). Secondly, and more importantly, irrational discrimination is bad for society.

Neither point implies anything at all about his rights in the matter; I have the right to waste my life in a dead-end job and bitch about my circumstances, but it's bad for me, and bad for society to do so, and I would justly be criticized for living that way. I think this is a comparable situation.

[Axxon]

I don't think it is useful to suggest (or, for that matter, true) that HA is wrong or bad for holding the views he does and behaving the way he does.

The criticism he faces has two aspects. First, irrational discrimination is bad for the agent (HA in this case). Secondly, and more importantly, irrational discrimination is bad for society.

Neither point implies anything at all about his rights in the matter; I have the right to waste my life in a dead-end job and bitch about my circumstances, but it's bad for me, and bad for society to do so, and I would justly be criticized for living that way. I think this is a comparable situation.

I agree with you but I wonder about the one part.

How is it bad for society what views you hold or what you bitch about as long as you perform your societal obligations regardless of your view?

If you perform your job well and are a productive citizen both on the job and off then how is society hurt if you hate your life?

[TroyF]

I don't think it is useful to suggest (or, for that matter, true) that HA is wrong or bad for holding the views he does and behaving the way he does.

The criticism he faces has two aspects. First, irrational discrimination is bad for the agent (HA in this case). Secondly, and more importantly, irrational discrimination is bad for society.

Neither point implies anything at all about his rights in the matter; I have the right to waste my life in a dead-end job and bitch about my circumstances, but it's bad for me, and bad for society to do so, and I would justly be criticized for living that way. I think this is a comparable situation.


Agreed. HA has the right to despist anyone he wants for any reason he wants to do so.

I'm thankful I don't hold those views and think it's sad that someone out there does, but that's the way it goes. I hope he's sincere about not actually acting out on any of those thoughts, as all forms of racism do not involve white sheets and violence.

The line here is a very narrow one and I find it hard to believe someone with that viewpoint who is so open to expressing it hasn't crossed the line a few times into some forms of racism. (minor things no doubt, but I find it hard to believe it hasn't happened at some point)

But I'll take him at his word. He is being honest about it, I just think he's being wrong. That's an opinion as well. Nothing more, nothing less.

[Galaril]

First, I never understood why a few here hated Wie so much. Now I know why. I am actually a little surprised at some of what I have read here. I guess I was alittle foolish to expect it to be any different then the real world. Anyways, being that my wife is asian and I am not .I lived in my wife's country for 10 years and I found some of the issues in this thread reminiscent to the racist behavior/prejudice treatment I received.

[Anthony]

Agreed. HA has the right to despist anyone he wants for any reason he wants to do so.

I'm thankful I don't hold those views and think it's sad that someone out there does, but that's the way it goes. I hope he's sincere about not actually acting out on any of those thoughts, as all forms of racism do not involve white sheets and violence.

The line here is a very narrow one and I find it hard to believe someone with that viewpoint who is so open to expressing it hasn't crossed the line a few times into some forms of racism. (minor things no doubt, but I find it hard to believe it hasn't happened at some point)

But I'll take him at his word. He is being honest about it, I just think he's being wrong. That's an opinion as well. Nothing more, nothing less.

good post.

to me, in my mind - i'm not racist. in my opinion, what separates racism from being prejudiced is racism requires an action of some sort, whereas prejudism (is that even a word?) is a state of mind or an opinion. racism requires hate, prejudism is merely the presence of having reservations against a particular group of people. racism requires hate at all times (at no point could a white man who hates blacks ever consider being friends with a black man), prejudism is merely "i don't like you because of who you are, but i'm open to allowing you to change my opinion of you - you might actually be different from others of your kind. until then, stay away from me" (this is my stance, btw). racist people act out on their hatred (spanning the spectrum from donning the white hood and burning crosses to subtle things such as not hiring someone based on their race), prejudism is is something you can feel - an unwarranted opinion formed on overgeneralizations, if you will (the "people of your type do certain things, i will assume you're the same way" line of thinking), and doesn't require action.

rest assured, i don't act of my feelings or opinions. that is why i say i'm prejudiced, and not racist. it is also why i told kcchief "if that makes me racist" (per a more official definition), then call it what you want. i know at the end of the day if someone from a group that i dislike were to move next door to me, i wouldn't like it, but i wouldn't throw rocks through their window. i might even smile and say "hello" and "goodbye". in the comfort and safety of our own homes and social circles i think it's perfectly ok to think however you want to think. i'm open and honest with my prejudism partly due to the anonyminity of the internet, partly because i don't think it's proper to disregard one's feelings just because it's not in line with popular opinion. in my circle i'm rather vocal and opinionated, i feel one's opinions shouldn't be things to be ashamed of. again, so i can not like cats and just as long as i don't go kicking one every time i see it then i think it's ok to have that opinion.

[RendeR]

This is where you are mistaken HA, Racism does not require hate, so you're opinion is wrong. Prejudice based on race, wether acted on or not is still racism.Rationalize your "prejudice" towards asians any way you wish, if its because they are asian, your still a racist. Hatred is not required.

[kcchief19]

For the record, I realize this was a waste of time four pages ago, but as has been said in the past by others on this board, I'm not going to let falsehoods or misimpressions stand as the fact.
Ok, well, you're now trying to adjectivise the argument. Racism, sexism etc, these are adjectives that describe the real issue, discrimination. Anything else is semantics. I wouldn't necessarily disagree with this -- to me, prejudice in all forms -- racist, sexists, you name it -- is wrong. HA is the one arguing semantics bying try to say he is prejudiced but not a racist, as though it's "better" to only be prejudiced. He's trying to argue that racism and prejudiced are two different things. I'm saying that if you're prejudiced against a race, you're a racist. If you're prejudiced against another sex, you're a sexist.

So, if you won't sleep with a man then you're admitting a prejudice and it's a prejudice that's based on sex, which to many pretty much slams the book shut -- it's a textbook definition of sexism.

Now, are you a sexist or will you sleep with a man ( assuming you're not a homosexual of course ) you know, so you won't be labelled as such?

Nope, so you're sexist. Would you actively use this built in bias to do harm to someone of the same sex? I'm presuming no and therein lies the real issue. I have a cat. I won't have sex with it. Therefore I'm prejudiced against cats? It's a male cat. Therefore I'm sexist? Is that an absurd comparison? Absolutely, as is the comparison that if you're not bisexual you're a sexist.
All I'm saying is that IMHO HA is the more honest one in the discussion. I would disagree with that on multiple levels -- but I'd also say that his "honesty" is nothing to be proud of.
i think it's remarkable at how well Axxon has debated this issue. well done. i'd like to read more on what you have to say on the topic, you've exhibited the ability to cut through the bs and nonsense and your posts are in tune with what i've been trying to say. Watch out, Axxon. I got a private message from HA once after I defended him when I thought he got a raw deal -- I was 100 percent dead wrong, by the way -- and he stabbed me in the back on another board about a week later. This is the kiss of death.

[Anthony]

Watch out, Axxon. I got a private message from HA once after I defended him when I thought he got a raw deal -- I was 100 percent dead wrong, by the way -- and he stabbed me in the back on another board about a week later. This is the kiss of death.

and if Axxon were to offer me a ridiculously horrible trade in a OOTP league, i would publicly make fun of him too as i did with you (thereby "stabbing you in the back"). so he can take that for what it's worth.

smooooch. ;)

[Subby]

Hey look who just won an LPGA tourney...TWENTY FOUR YEAR OLD Michelle Wie.

Michelle Wie wins LPGA LOTTE Championship - ESPN (http://espn.go.com/golf/story/_/id/10810474/michelle-wie-wins-lpga-lotte-championship)

[Matthean]

Odd she has so few wins considering her current ranking.

[kcchief19]

And now she's U.S. Open champ. Oh, WrongWay, where have you gone? I need to know what will be the top toy this Christmas.

[nol]

And now she's U.S. Open champ. Oh, WrongWay, where have you gone? I need to know what will be the top toy this Christmas.

U.S. Open champ in a tournament full of women. Why did they even think they could get into Augusta in the first place?! Yeah, that's right, I'm a WrongWay sleeper account coming back to get the last laugh on you.

Just kidding, what a shithead that guy must have been.

[Young Drachma]

Was just coming to bump this after her US Open win.

Was just looking at it earlier, she played in 13 men's events AS A TEENAGER. (golf.about.com/od/michellewie/f/michelle-wie-mens-tournaments.htm) That's just mindblowing in retrospect.

Wie had several close calls as far as making the cut. She missed the cut by one stroke at the 2004 Sony Open and by one stroke at the 2005 Casio World Open; and by two strokes at the 2005 John Deere Classic.

Odd she has so few wins considering her current ranking.

Well she basically played four years part-time while attending Stanford.

[Matthean]

Well she basically played four years part-time while attending Stanford.

I guess that's the thing. She hasn't played that much and thus the lower number of wins but yet is highly ranked and the money leader.

[JonInMiddleGA]

In & of itself, I'm not a big fan of Wie ... nor of women's golf in general frankly.

That said, after her comments about the 11 yr old, I was quite delighted that pretty much anyone other than Bryant won this weekend.

[EagleFan]

Good for her. But then I am generally a sucker for any good looking female athlete (unless she is a total jackass).

[DaddyTorgo]

I always figured WrongWay had some like...fetish for young asian girls or something and it was a self-hatred kinda thing.

[Subby]

Best legs in sports? Best legs in sports.

[digamma]

You always were a sucker for compression sleeves, Subby.

[stevew]

Michelle Wie Twerks, Refuses To Turn Down After U.S. Open Win (http://deadspin.com/michelle-wie-twerks-refuses-to-turn-down-after-u-s-op-1594767175?utm_campaign=socialflow_deadspin_facebook&utm_source=deadspin_facebook&utm_medium=socialflow)


somewhere WrongWay is watching this video and crying

[Logan]

Or ejaculating.

[molson]

Crying and ejaculating are not mutually exclusive.

[cuervo72]

Best legs in sports? Best legs in sports.

Bah, I called this six (six? ok, six) years ago.

[Desnudo]

Michelle Wie Twerks, Refuses To Turn Down After U.S. Open Win (http://deadspin.com/michelle-wie-twerks-refuses-to-turn-down-after-u-s-op-1594767175?utm_campaign=socialflow_deadspin_facebook&utm_source=deadspin_facebook&utm_medium=socialflow)


somewhere WrongWay is watching this video and crying

Dem stems