Maximum Football???

[Bubba Wheels]

Leaving aside the fact that this game has been advertised forever, anyone still looking to buy this game? Should be out in the next month or so. Would have been out already from what I understand, but when Matrix Games picked it up as the distributor they wanted the career thing added and so the delay resulted.

One of the posters over on that board really hit what I think. You would think that great as the text-sims may be, would it really be that hard to add even some rudimentary graphics to the game? Not even 3d, just something to add movement and a sense of 'being there' while it unfolds. Can't believe this far into game developement and its either all or nothing. Madden or FOFC (good as the latter may be.)

[Riggins44]

I imagine I'll give it a looksie when it ever comes out. Wonder if it will beat Time Killer 2.0 (aka QB Challenge) to market? ;)

[AgustusM]

Forgive my pessimism, but this thing has been on eminent release for about two years now.

[FBPro]

I'll probably check it out IF it ever comes out.

[QuikSand]

Teaseware.

[JeffR]

One of the posters over on that board really hit what I think. You would think that great as the text-sims may be, would it really be that hard to add even some rudimentary graphics to the game? Not even 3d, just something to add movement and a sense of 'being there' while it unfolds. Can't believe this far into game developement and its either all or nothing. Madden or FOFC (good as the latter may be.)

To do that, you'd either need several people working on the game, or give up pretty much any other advancements in the rest of the game for the version that added the graphics (assuming we're talking about a new version of an existing game.) The latter is a big risk; you'd be gambling the ongoing viability of your game on a new and unproven feature, rather than improving and polishing things that you already know work. As for the former, I don't think any company making these games outside of SI (and EA, I suppose) has the resources to have development teams with several full-time employees.

[biological warrior]

Forgive my pessimism, but this thing has been on eminent release for about two years now. More like 3-4. I remember talks about this in 2001, when I was a senor in high school. When is the ''scheduled'' release as of right now?

[QuikSand]

When is the ''scheduled'' release as of right now?

Interestingly enough, on their web site, there is *still* a thread posted with details of their expected relase date, and linking there you will see the disappointment that ensued when they announced that the game was, alas, not going to b available until Superbowl weekend. That would have been last year's Superbowl, by the way, and the thread was from November or so of 2004.

There are other, more recent items in other places on their board, but that one is still the eye-grabber, still front and center. Talk about leading with your chin...

[Bubba Wheels]

Reading the current website over at Matrixgames, I'm still pretty pumped about this game. Release should be any day now, I think reconfiguring everything for career play caused an unavoidable delay, and looks like its going to hit the ground running with plenty of leagues/teams/uniforms/past and present already made and waiting for it.

[Pumpy Tudors]

I was excited about this game, but Black Ice Hockey has fulfilled all of my sports gaming needs for the next several years, so I won't need to buy Maximum Football. Sorry.

[Bubba Wheels]

I was excited about this game, but Black Ice Hockey has fulfilled all of my sports gaming needs for the next several years, so I won't need to buy Maximum Football. Sorry.

Why do I think that when this game finally does come out, you'll have your copy inside of the first week?

[Coffee Warlord]

Obviously because you've finally realized Pumpy knows the secret to immortality, and will thusly still be alive in 2514 when the game is finally released.

[thrym]

Reading the current website over at Matrixgames... Release should be any day now...

Pardon my disbelief, but this game has been at the "Should be released any day now" stage for about 2 years. EveryTIME there is something more to add or tweek or a bug to squash...

A new question is forming in me brain...is anyone here a part of the Beta test team? Hummmm.

Anyway, I'll believe its NOT 'vapor-ware' when it's actually released and reviews surface...until then...

[Pumpy Tudors]

Why do I think that when this game finally does come out, you'll have your copy inside of the first week?http://img229.imageshack.us/img229/2637/thejoke3wf.jpg

[thrym]

I was excited about this game, but Black Ice Hockey has fulfilled all of my sports gaming needs for the next several years, so I won't need to buy Maximum Football. Sorry.

Ahhh, Black Ice Hockey...the memories...like my first prostate exam, only without the Vaseline!

[Bubba Wheels]

You folks remind me of Lions fans. As long as they stay angry they show they care. When apathy hits, then the real trouble for them begins.

[Pumpy Tudors]

Ahhh, Black Ice Hockey...the memories...like my first prostate exam, only without the Vaseline!
Indeed.

Hey, I'm just judging by your location, but are you Scottie Pippen?

[thrym]

Indeed.

Hey, I'm just judging by your location, but are you Scottie Pippen?

No, not Scottie...I played BBall with him a few times at the local rec (McGee) center. That's my brush with greatness... :)

[QuikSand]

Don't know if many here are following this, but Maximum Football is all set and ready to go, Matrix Games is distributing it. Look under General and then Done Deal.http://maxfb.iphost.com/

Reading the current website over at Matrixgames, I'm still pretty pumped about this game. Release should be any day now...

Forgive me if I don’t wet myself on your say-so, Bubs.

[ice4277]

I belive him. I think I heard a psychic on "Coast to Coast AM" mention that it was going to be ready soon ;)

[Bubba Wheels]

Forgive me if I don’t wet myself on your say-so, Bubs.

Well, if they hadn't delayed due to implementing the career play I would better see your point. My point is, despite all the setbacks, ect, there is still nothing like this game out there and hasn't been since the FB Pro series. So the fact that it is coming out makes all the difference in the world to me.

[Bubba Wheels]

I belive him. I think I heard a psychic on "Coast to Coast AM" mention that it was going to be ready soon ;)

Nah, that was the Jon Stewart Show, where all the credible people go on! ;)

[Ben E Lou]

Well, if they hadn't delayed due to implementing the career play I would better see your point. My point is, despite all the setbacks, ect, there is still nothing like this game out there and hasn't been since the FB Pro series. So the fact that it is coming out makes all the difference in the world to me.Bubba, what makes you believe that it is really coming out this time? When I was young, my daddy often said to me, "Son, when a dog bites a man once, that's the dog's fault, but when that SAME dog bites that SAME man again, that's the man's fault."

[Bubba Wheels]

Bubba, what makes you believe that it is really coming out this time? When I was young, my daddy often said to me, "Son, when a dog bites a man once, that's the dog's fault, but when that SAME dog bites that SAME man again, that's the man's fault."

Only because 1. Matrix Games hasn't pulled the plug on it, and they would have more to lose by promoting vaporware than David Winters would.

2. Beta-testers are answering questions in the forums even at this date.

3. David Winters himself is still answering questions, so even he knows that despite the delay this thing is going to be huge when it hits.

[Apathetic Lurker]

I for one plan on getting this game just to try out the CFL. I have been following it's progress(or lack of if you will) since it's inception. If I can wait for 5 or so years whats the problem waiting 1 or 2 months more? Preferably it will come out June 30 since I get 2 months vacation at that time :)

[Ben E Lou]

<table border="0" cellpadding="4" cellspacing="1" width="100%"> <tbody><tr><td class="cat" colspan="2" bgcolor="#d8d8db"><table border="0" cellpadding="1" cellspacing="0" width="100%"><tbody><tr><td width="*"> RE: Update - 10/5/2005 12:15:56 AM </td> <td align="right" nowrap="nowrap"> <table border="0" cellpadding="2" cellspacing="0" width="10"> <tbody><tr> <td align="right"> http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/image/replyflat1.gif (javascript:void(powin('post.asp?do=reply&messageID=958386&toStyle=tm')))</td> <td align="right"> http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/image/replyflat.gif (javascript:void(powin('post.asp?do=reply&q=1&messageID=958386&toStyle=tm')))</td> <td align="right"> http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/image/forwardflat.gif (javascript:void(fwdwin('fwd.asp?messageID=958386')))</td> <td align="right"><script>showPicture("10/4/2005 7:15:56 PM",0,0,0,926725,154)</script>http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/image/board_s.gif</td> </tr> </tbody></table> </td> </tr> </tbody></table> </td> </tr> <tr> <td class="ultrasmall" bgcolor="#e1e1e1" nowrap="nowrap" valign="top" width="150"> Title95 (http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/showProfile.asp?memid=17865)
<script>titleAndStar(89,0,0,false,"","")</script>Matrix Trooper
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Posts: 89
Joined: 8/23/2005
Status: online http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/image/blank.gif </td> <td class="msg" bgcolor="#e1e1e1" valign="top" width="100%"> Okay, let's try it this way. Is there a chance the game will be released before Halloween? http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/image/s4.gif
(in reply to Title95 (http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=926725&mpage=4&key=#957317))
</td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" bgcolor="#d8d8db" width="100%"> <table border="0" cellpadding="1" cellspacing="1" width="100%"> <tbody><tr> <td>http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/image/emailToAuthor.gif (http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=926725&mpage=4&key=#) http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/image/address.gif (http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/address.asp?memID=17865&mode=addindividual) http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/image/block.gif (http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/address.asp?memID=17865&mode=block&pg=tm&m=958386)</td> <td align="right"> Report (http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=926725&mpage=4&key=#) | Post #: 109 (http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=926725&mpage=4&key=#) http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/image/asc.gif (http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=926725&mpage=4&key=#)</td> </tr> </tbody></table> </td> </tr> </tbody> </table> <table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="98%"> <tbody><tr> <td align="center" bgcolor="#336699"> <table border="0" cellpadding="4" cellspacing="1" width="100%"> <tbody><tr> <td class="cat" colspan="2" bgcolor="#d8d8db"> <table border="0" cellpadding="1" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr> <td width="*"> http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/micons/m1.gif RE: Update - 10/5/2005 1:15:20 AM </td> <td align="right" nowrap="nowrap"> <table border="0" cellpadding="2" cellspacing="0" width="10"> <tbody><tr> <td align="right"> http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/image/replyflat1.gif (javascript:void(powin('post.asp?do=reply&messageID=958421&toStyle=tm')))</td> <td align="right"> http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/image/replyflat.gif (javascript:void(powin('post.asp?do=reply&q=1&messageID=958421&toStyle=tm')))</td> <td align="right"> http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/image/forwardflat.gif (javascript:void(fwdwin('fwd.asp?messageID=958421')))</td> <td align="right"><script>showPicture("10/4/2005 8:15:20 PM",0,0,0,926725,154)</script>http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/image/board_s.gif</td> </tr> </tbody></table> </td> </tr> </tbody></table> </td> </tr> <tr> <td class="ultrasmall" bgcolor="#e1e1e1" nowrap="nowrap" valign="top" width="150"> AxnXcamr (http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/showProfile.asp?memid=18189)
<script>titleAndStar(11,0,0,false,"","")</script>Matrix Recruit
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Posts: 11
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Status: offline http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/image/blank.gif </td> <td class="msg" bgcolor="#e1e1e1" valign="top" width="100%"> Please god say yes

_____________________________

FOOTBALL 4tw!!!
(in reply to Title95 (http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=926725&mpage=4&key=#958386))
</td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" bgcolor="#d8d8db" width="100%"> <table border="0" cellpadding="1" cellspacing="1" width="100%"> <tbody><tr> <td>http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/image/emailToAuthor.gif (http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=926725&mpage=4&key=#) http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/image/pm.gif (http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=926725&mpage=4&key=#) http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/image/address.gif (http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/address.asp?memID=18189&mode=addindividual) http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/image/block.gif (http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/address.asp?memID=18189&mode=block&pg=tm&m=958421)</td> <td align="right"> Report (http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=926725&mpage=4&key=#) | Post #: 110 (http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=926725&mpage=4&key=#) http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/image/asc.gif (http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=926725&mpage=4&key=#)</td> </tr> </tbody></table> </td> </tr> </tbody></table> </td> </tr> </tbody> </table> <table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="98%"> <tbody><tr> <td align="center" bgcolor="#336699"> <table border="0" cellpadding="4" cellspacing="1" width="100%"> <tbody><tr> <td class="cat" colspan="2" bgcolor="#d8d8db"> <table border="0" cellpadding="1" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr> <td width="*"> http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/micons/m1.gif RE: Update - 10/5/2005 2:03:09 AM </td> <td align="right" nowrap="nowrap"> <table border="0" cellpadding="2" cellspacing="0" width="10"> <tbody><tr> <td align="right"> http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/image/replyflat1.gif (javascript:void(powin('post.asp?do=reply&messageID=958433&toStyle=tm')))</td> <td align="right"> http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/image/replyflat.gif (javascript:void(powin('post.asp?do=reply&q=1&messageID=958433&toStyle=tm')))</td> <td align="right"> http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/image/forwardflat.gif (javascript:void(fwdwin('fwd.asp?messageID=958433')))</td> <td align="right"><script>showPicture("10/4/2005 9:03:09 PM",0,0,0,926725,154)</script>http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/image/board_s.gif</td> </tr> </tbody></table> </td> </tr> </tbody></table> </td> </tr> <tr> <td class="ultrasmall" bgcolor="#e1e1e1" nowrap="nowrap" valign="top" width="150"> Title95 (http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/showProfile.asp?memid=17865)
<script>titleAndStar(89,0,0,false,"","")</script>Matrix Trooper
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Posts: 89
Joined: 8/23/2005
Status: online http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/image/blank.gif </td> <td class="msg" bgcolor="#e1e1e1" valign="top" width="100%"> AxnXcamr,

I agree unreservedly. I have had all I can stand of Madden 2005 and 2006. http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/image/s4.gif
(in reply to AxnXcamr (http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=926725&mpage=4&key=#958421))
</td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" bgcolor="#d8d8db" width="100%"> <table border="0" cellpadding="1" cellspacing="1" width="100%"> <tbody><tr> <td>http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/image/emailToAuthor.gif (http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=926725&mpage=4&key=#) http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/image/address.gif (http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/address.asp?memID=17865&mode=addindividual) http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/image/block.gif (http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/address.asp?memID=17865&mode=block&pg=tm&m=958433)</td> <td align="right"> Report (http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=926725&mpage=4&key=#) | Post #: 111 (http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=926725&mpage=4&key=#) http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/image/asc.gif (http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=926725&mpage=4&key=#)</td> </tr> </tbody></table> </td> </tr> </tbody></table> </td> </tr> </tbody> </table> <table border="0" cellpadding="4" cellspacing="1" width="100%"> <tbody><tr> <td class="cat" colspan="2" bgcolor="#d8d8db"> <table border="0" cellpadding="1" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr> <td width="*"> http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/micons/m1.gif RE: Update - 10/5/2005 3:51:12 AM </td> <td align="right" nowrap="nowrap"> <table border="0" cellpadding="2" cellspacing="0" width="10"> <tbody><tr> <td align="right"> http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/image/replyflat1.gif (javascript:void(powin('post.asp?do=reply&messageID=958496&toStyle=tm')))</td> <td align="right"> http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/image/replyflat.gif (javascript:void(powin('post.asp?do=reply&q=1&messageID=958496&toStyle=tm')))</td> <td align="right"> http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/image/forwardflat.gif (javascript:void(fwdwin('fwd.asp?messageID=958496')))</td> <td align="right"><script>showPicture("10/4/2005 10:51:12 PM",0,0,0,926725,154)</script>http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/image/board_s.gif</td> </tr> </tbody></table> </td> </tr> </tbody></table> </td> </tr> <tr> <td class="ultrasmall" bgcolor="#e1e1e1" nowrap="nowrap" valign="top" width="150"> David Winter (http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/showProfile.asp?memid=14718)
<script>titleAndStar(310,0,0,false,"","")</script>Matrix Hero
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Posts: 310
Joined: 11/23/2004
Status: offline http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/image/blank.gif </td> <td class="msg" bgcolor="#e1e1e1" valign="top" width="100%"> I posted a new build for the testers on Sunday night. Lets see what happens with that.
</td></tr></tbody> </table>

[Ben E Lou]

Aha! MAybe THIS is why Bubba thinks release is imminent:

<table border="0" cellpadding="4" cellspacing="1" width="100%"> <tbody><tr><td class="cat" colspan="2" bgcolor="#d8d8db"><table border="0" cellpadding="1" cellspacing="0" width="100%"><tbody><tr><td width="*"> RE: Update - 10/12/2005 2:08:39 PM </td> <td align="right" nowrap="nowrap"> <table border="0" cellpadding="2" cellspacing="0" width="10"> <tbody><tr> <td align="right"> http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/image/replyflat1.gif (javascript:void(powin('post.asp?do=reply&messageID=964300&toStyle=tm')))</td> <td align="right"> http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/image/replyflat.gif (javascript:void(powin('post.asp?do=reply&q=1&messageID=964300&toStyle=tm')))</td> <td align="right"> http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/image/forwardflat.gif (javascript:void(fwdwin('fwd.asp?messageID=964300')))</td> <td align="right"><script>showPicture("10/12/2005 9:08:39 AM",0,0,0,926725,154)</script>http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/image/board_s.gif</td> </tr> </tbody></table> </td> </tr> </tbody></table> </td> </tr> <tr> <td class="ultrasmall" bgcolor="#e1e1e1" nowrap="nowrap" valign="top" width="150"> Erik Rutins (http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/showProfile.asp?memid=9)
<script>titleAndStar(6321,0,0,true,"Administrator","")</script>Administrator
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Posts: 6321
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: Vermont, USA
Status: offline http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/image/blank.gif </td> <td class="msg" bgcolor="#e1e1e1" valign="top" width="100%"> The information that has already been posted on the release date (before the end of the year, once beta testing is complete) is the best we can provide right now. No more detailed info will be forthcoming at this time, sorry. When we have a more precise estimate, we'll post here. Beta testing and fixes are an iterative process that is not as easily predicted as some may think, particularly at this scale of development.

Regards,

- Erik

_____________________________

Erik Rutins
Director of Product Development and Business Relations
http://www.matrixgames.com/images/sig-logo-02.gif</td></tr></tbody> </table>

[Ben E Lou]

But then...

<table border="0" cellpadding="4" cellspacing="1" width="100%"> <tbody><tr><td class="cat" colspan="2" bgcolor="#d8d8db"><table border="0" cellpadding="1" cellspacing="0" width="100%"><tbody><tr><td width="*"> Update - 8/18/2005 5:29:13 PM </td> <td align="right" nowrap="nowrap"> <table border="0" cellpadding="2" cellspacing="0" width="10"> <tbody><tr> <td align="right"> http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/image/replyflat1.gif (javascript:void(powin('post.asp?do=reply&messageID=926725&toStyle=tm')))</td> <td align="right"> http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/image/replyflat.gif (javascript:void(powin('post.asp?do=reply&q=1&messageID=926725&toStyle=tm')))</td> <td align="right"> http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/image/forwardflat.gif (javascript:void(fwdwin('fwd.asp?messageID=926725')))</td> <td align="right"><script>showPicture("8/18/2005 12:29:13 PM",0,0,0,926725,154)</script>http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/image/board_s.gif</td> </tr> </tbody></table> </td> </tr> </tbody></table> </td> </tr> <tr> <td class="ultrasmall" bgcolor="#e1e1e1" nowrap="nowrap" valign="top" width="150"> David Winter (http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/showProfile.asp?memid=14718)
<script>titleAndStar(310,0,0,false,"","")</script>Matrix Hero
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Posts: 310
Joined: 11/23/2004
Status: offline http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/image/blank.gif </td> <td class="msg" bgcolor="#e1e1e1" valign="top" width="100%"> Everyone.

I'm going to be gone for nearly a month starting on Saturday. I won't be back until the second week of September.

I'm going to be in Orlando on business. A few weeks ago I started a new job that takes me between Vancouver and Orlando a lot. Then I am getting married and going away for a couple of weeks.

I'm going to be providing a build to Matrix (and all testers) on Saturday (Aug 20). This I hope to make the GM based on any remaining Matrix feed back. Once we're okay on the GM we have some promotional artwork and packaging to finalize.

Thanks
David Winter </td></tr></tbody> </table>
That's must be some SERIOUS artwork and packaging.

[Ben E Lou]

Oh...and just to clarify...

<table border="0" cellpadding="4" cellspacing="1" width="100%"> <tbody><tr><td class="cat" colspan="2" bgcolor="#d8d8db"><table border="0" cellpadding="1" cellspacing="0" width="100%"><tbody><tr><td width="*">http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/micons/m1.gif RE: Update - 8/18/2005 6:39:32 PM </td> <td align="right" nowrap="nowrap"> <table border="0" cellpadding="2" cellspacing="0" width="10"> <tbody><tr> <td align="right"> http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/image/replyflat1.gif (javascript:void(powin('post.asp?do=reply&messageID=926771&toStyle=tm')))</td> <td align="right"> http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/image/replyflat.gif (javascript:void(powin('post.asp?do=reply&q=1&messageID=926771&toStyle=tm')))</td> <td align="right"> http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/image/forwardflat.gif (javascript:void(fwdwin('fwd.asp?messageID=926771')))</td> <td align="right"><script>showPicture("8/18/2005 1:39:32 PM",0,0,0,926725,154)</script>http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/image/board_s.gif</td> </tr> </tbody></table> </td> </tr> </tbody></table> </td> </tr> <tr> <td class="ultrasmall" bgcolor="#e1e1e1" nowrap="nowrap" valign="top" width="150"> Tullius (http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/showProfile.asp?memid=14669)
<script>titleAndStar(124,0,0,false,"","")</script>Matrix Veteran
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Posts: 124
Joined: 11/18/2004
Status: online http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/image/blank.gif </td> <td class="msg" bgcolor="#e1e1e1" valign="top" width="100%"> Sorry, but what is "GM" ?
(in reply to David Winter (http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=926725&mpage=1&key=#926725))
</td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" bgcolor="#d8d8db" width="100%"> <table border="0" cellpadding="1" cellspacing="1" width="100%"> <tbody><tr> <td>http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/image/emailToAuthor.gif (http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=926725&mpage=1&key=#) http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/image/pm.gif (http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=926725&mpage=1&key=#) http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/image/address.gif (http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/address.asp?memID=14669&mode=addindividual) http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/image/block.gif (http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/address.asp?memID=14669&mode=block&pg=tm&m=926771)</td> <td align="right"> Report (http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=926725&mpage=1&key=#) | Post #: 2 (http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=926725&mpage=1&key=#) http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/image/asc.gif (http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=926725&mpage=1&key=#)</td> </tr> </tbody></table> </td> </tr> </tbody> </table> <table border="0" cellpadding="4" cellspacing="1" width="100%"> <tbody><tr> <td class="cat" colspan="2" bgcolor="#d8d8db"> <table border="0" cellpadding="1" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr> <td width="*"> http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/micons/m1.gif RE: Update - 8/18/2005 7:27:02 PM </td> <td align="right" nowrap="nowrap"> <table border="0" cellpadding="2" cellspacing="0" width="10"> <tbody><tr> <td align="right"> http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/image/replyflat1.gif (javascript:void(powin('post.asp?do=reply&messageID=926809&toStyle=tm')))</td> <td align="right"> http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/image/replyflat.gif (javascript:void(powin('post.asp?do=reply&q=1&messageID=926809&toStyle=tm')))</td> <td align="right"> http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/image/forwardflat.gif (javascript:void(fwdwin('fwd.asp?messageID=926809')))</td> <td align="right"><script>showPicture("8/18/2005 2:27:02 PM",0,0,0,926725,154)</script>http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/image/board_s.gif</td> </tr> </tbody></table> </td> </tr> </tbody></table> </td> </tr> <tr> <td class="ultrasmall" bgcolor="#e1e1e1" nowrap="nowrap" valign="top" width="150"> David Winter (http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/showProfile.asp?memid=14718)
<script>titleAndStar(310,0,0,false,"","")</script>Matrix Hero
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Posts: 310
Joined: 11/23/2004
Status: offline http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/image/blank.gif </td> <td class="msg" bgcolor="#e1e1e1" valign="top" width="100%"> Oh.. sorry.. GM = Gold Master. Basically it's software design babble meaning "the release build".

</td></tr></tbody> </table>

[Ben E Lou]

Good night. This is the opposite of it-will-be-released-when-it-is-ready:

<table border="0" cellpadding="4" cellspacing="1" width="100%"> <tbody><tr><td class="cat" colspan="2" bgcolor="#d8d8db"><table border="0" cellpadding="1" cellspacing="0" width="100%"><tbody><tr><td width="*"> RE: Release? - 6/7/2005 2:09:52 PM </td> <td align="right" nowrap="nowrap"> <table border="0" cellpadding="2" cellspacing="0" width="10"> <tbody><tr> <td align="right"> http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/image/replyflat1.gif (javascript:void(powin('post.asp?do=reply&messageID=875163&toStyle=tm')))</td> <td align="right"> http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/image/replyflat.gif (javascript:void(powin('post.asp?do=reply&q=1&messageID=875163&toStyle=tm')))</td> <td align="right"> http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/image/forwardflat.gif (javascript:void(fwdwin('fwd.asp?messageID=875163')))</td> <td align="right"><script>showPicture("6/7/2005 9:09:52 AM",0,0,0,870539,154)</script>http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/image/board_s.gif</td> </tr> </tbody></table> </td> </tr> </tbody></table> </td> </tr> <tr> <td class="ultrasmall" bgcolor="#e1e1e1" nowrap="nowrap" valign="top" width="150"> Erik Rutins (http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/showProfile.asp?memid=9)
<script>titleAndStar(6321,0,0,true,"Administrator","")</script>Administrator
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Posts: 6321
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: Vermont, USA
Status: offline http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/image/blank.gif </td> <td class="msg" bgcolor="#e1e1e1" valign="top" width="100%"> To answer the original poster, it's definitely coming and we're aiming for a Summer release. Can't be more specific at this time.

Regards,

- Erik

_____________________________

Erik Rutins
Director of Product Development and Business Relations
http://www.matrixgames.com/images/sig-logo-02.gif</td></tr></tbody> </table>

[Ben E Lou]

Don't shoot the messenger.

<table border="0" cellpadding="4" cellspacing="1" width="100%"> <tbody><tr><td class="cat" colspan="2" bgcolor="#d8d8db"><table border="0" cellpadding="1" cellspacing="0" width="100%"><tbody><tr><td width="*"> RE: Release? - 12/20/2005 1:29:01 PM </td> <td align="right" nowrap="nowrap"> <table border="0" cellpadding="2" cellspacing="0" width="10"> <tbody><tr> <td align="right"> http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/image/replyflat1.gif (javascript:void(powin('post.asp?do=reply&messageID=1014129&toStyle=tm')))</td> <td align="right"> http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/image/replyflat.gif (javascript:void(powin('post.asp?do=reply&q=1&messageID=1014129&toStyle=tm')))</td> <td align="right"> http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/image/forwardflat.gif (javascript:void(fwdwin('fwd.asp?messageID=1014129')))</td> <td align="right"><script>showPicture("12/20/2005 8:29:01 AM",0,0,0,870539,154)</script>http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/image/board_sn.gif</td> </tr> </tbody></table> </td> </tr> </tbody></table> </td> </tr> <tr> <td class="ultrasmall" bgcolor="#e1e1e1" nowrap="nowrap" valign="top" width="150"> Erik Rutins (http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/showProfile.asp?memid=9)
<script>titleAndStar(6321,0,0,true,"Administrator","")</script>Administrator
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Posts: 6321
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: Vermont, USA
Status: offline http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/image/blank.gif </td> <td class="msg" bgcolor="#e1e1e1" valign="top" width="100%"> Wow, this thread was raised from the grave... a quick update for you all. We appear to be very close to a release candidate. We need more testing on the latest build from David, but progress in the last two months has been very good and we're optimistic about a release in the near future.

Regards,

- Erik

_____________________________

Erik Rutins
Director of Product Development and Business Relations
http://www.matrixgames.com/images/sig-logo-02.gif</td></tr></tbody> </table>

[digamma]

I think that board may be the closest thing we see to the FOFC purgatory board we all desire.

[sovereignstar]

Some bright guys over there...

If I recall, Sierra was also going to make a Baseball Pro and Basketball Pro game similar to Football Pro 99 before the divison shot down. It would have been interesting too see what those games would have been like.

[FBPro]

I saw that as well and wondered what planet he'd been on.

[Rizon]

I'm going to buy a copy when the game is released in 2007.

[cthomer5000]

Honestly, it's to the point where i think SkyDog should start banning anyone that mentions this game before it's actually available for purchase.

[yabanci]

what this means is it's crap. They can't release it because it's crap.

[Bubba Wheels]

Still say this is the best chance we get at the game most of us want. What else is there even remotely down the pike? Division Rivals?

[Pumpy Tudors]

Still say this is the best chance we get at the game most of us want. What else is there even remotely down the pike? Division Rivals?
Do you seriously not get it? Regardless of what this game promises to be, its vision has been pimped out for years with absolutely no public results. Obviously, there's a test team out there who's been playing SOMETHING, but what does that do for the rest of us? Most of us have absolutely no reason to believe that the release of this game is imminent. We have heard it all before. This game is no longer news. When it is actually released, THEN it is news.

[Bubba Wheels]

Do you seriously not get it? Regardless of what this game promises to be, its vision has been pimped out for years with absolutely no public results. Obviously, there's a test team out there who's been playing SOMETHING, but what does that do for the rest of us? Most of us have absolutely no reason to believe that the release of this game is imminent. We have heard it all before. This game is no longer news. When it is actually released, THEN it is news.

Bah Humbug to you to. I'm already designing my leagues in my head. Throw-back leagues, future leagues, restructured leagues, college leagues. This game will be out shortly, before the super bowl at the latest.

[QuikSand]

This game will be out shortly, before the super bowl at the latest.

As long as we keep having a Super Bowl every year, you can't be proven wrong. Smartest contribution so far.

[cthomer5000]

I'm already designing my leagues in my head.
And this is quite likely the only place they will ever exist.

[Zippo]

Bah Humbug to you to. I'm already designing my leagues in my head. Throw-back leagues, future leagues, restructured leagues, college leagues. This game will be out shortly, before the super bowl at the latest.
somebody should start a betting pool for this. ;)

[Galaril]

You know what I think this thread needs is an appearance by Derek Smart to tell us about the inner workings of the Gaming software development industry. :D

[Neuqua]

As long as we keep having a Super Bowl every year, you can't be proven wrong. Smartest contribution so far.

Nice.

[Deattribution]

As long as we keep having a Super Bowl every year, you can't be proven wrong. Smartest contribution so far.


When you consider the odds of the NFL having a full season strike are higher then this game being released, it's not such a smart contribution :)

[CraigSca]

I just pre-ordered!

[tucker rocky]

I just pre-ordered!

For 2010. :D

[ice4277]

I'm already designing my leagues in my head. Throw-back leagues, future leagues, restructured leagues, college leagues. This game will be out shortly, before the super bowl at the latest.
I can design a million leagues in my head too, but, if the game plays like ass, it won't make a difference.

[BradS]

LOL funny as hell thread, ppl still believe this is coming out soon. You should go to the Combat Leader board there. Same deal, been in development for over 4 years now. Until recently the developers decided they did not like the direction the game is going and development halts. What a joke.

[biological warrior]

Any newes on Division Rivals?

[thrym]

LOL funny as hell thread, ppl still believe this is coming out soon. You should go to the Combat Leader board there. Same deal, been in development for over 4 years now. Until recently the developers decided they did not like the direction the game is going and development halts. What a joke.

That reminds me...haven't I been waiting on Team Fortress 2(or whatever Sierra is calling it now) since Spring of 1999, it might even go back farther if I wanted to dig at it...but I don't :rolleyes:

[tucker rocky]

Nice screens of this game, to bad it'll never be fullfilled.

[Bee]

Just finished reading some of the threads over there...I'm not sure if it's hilarious or just sad...

[Ragone]

Anyone got word on black ice hockey by chance?

Ooh, and i hear duke nukem forever is nearing release!

[tucker rocky]

Just finished reading some of the threads over there...I'm not sure if it's hilarious or just sad...

Threads are there, just nothing but a blank page loads. Unless I'm being impatient.

[tucker rocky]

Threads are there, just nothing but a blank page loads. Unless I'm being impatient.

yes I am, patience is the thing.

So much hope, but nothing will ever happen with this game.

[Tigercat]

As for the idea about it being a good simulation finally with real graphics:

1) By the time this game goes out the graphics will be dated. Whats the point of the product supposedly appealing as something like FOF+Madden if the graphics are way worse than the latest Madden?

2)This guy doesn't exactly have the kind of experience in releasing several versions of good simulation titles that the best sport sim developers do. Whats the point of the product supposedly appealing as something like FOF+Madden if the simulation is way worse than the latest FOF?

I would think there is a high chance that this game is bad FOF + bad Madden with more customability. I said something similiar before, who cares if you can play with 6 quarters on a 140 yard field if the game is subpar in the more important aspects?

[Grammaticus]

Who knows, until the game comes out it is just some guys fantasy. Or maybe many guys fantasy. What do you say, you wanna nail Pam Anderson?

[Desmond]

I want this game to come out so it will be easier to make pictures for my FOFMP League.

[Ben E Lou]

Reading the current website over at Matrixgames, I'm still pretty pumped about this game. Release should be any day now, I think reconfiguring everything for career play caused an unavoidable delay, and looks like its going to hit the ground running with plenty of leagues/teams/uniforms/past and present already made and waiting for it.Any update?

[CraigSca]

It's my understanding he's having problems with the Maximum Football Power Poll feature :D

[Galaril]

This game is a joke.

[A-Husker-4-Life]

This game is a joke.

I call it vaporware.... Put this game in with Duke Nukem Forever....

[Bonegavel]

Quik wins the award for best comments in a vaporware thread.

[Riggins44]

I hope the operating system(s) he's developing for is still relevant when he releases the game. Might be like 4 or 5 version of Windows released before it comes out.

[ahbrady]

Any update?

I'm expecting it to be released any minute now.

[Coffee Warlord]

The true secret is it's done, they just have to upload it to their server. Unfortunately, when this game entered development, it was back in the days of 300 baud modems. Having never upgraded their hardware, it's taken several years to upload it to the web.

Expect the upload to finish in 2014.

[ice4277]

I think it is going to be released right.........................now.

[ice4277]

Damn.

[Bubba Wheels]

Any update?

Well, since you ask...I checked the website last weekend and the update they had at the time was the box-cover art was being finished and some last minute 'honing' going on. Check it out for yourselves over at Matrixgames.com.

[QuikSand]

Well, since you ask...I checked the website last weekend and the update they had at the time was the box-cover art was being finished and some last minute 'honing' going on. Check it out for yourselves over at Matrixgames.com.

Well, then I'm convinced. Just 13 months of last minute "honing" eh? Great. Where do I pre-buy?

[yabanci]

Takes a long time to "hone" that box art.

12/14/2004
The staff of Matrix games and I have worked out a tentative release schedule of Super Bowl week. The exact day is TBA but it should be that week. The reason for the extra delay is rather simple. Matrix and Wintervalley simply teamed up too late to have a good Christmas release. Box art, promotional materials, etc are still being created.

[Eaglesfan27]

Well, the box art is certainly going to make or break this game.

[Bubba Wheels]

Well, they have it featured in the 'game recon' box on the Matrixgames site...so Matrixgames seems willing to bet its cred on a release pretty soon.

[biological warrior]

This is what happens when you do too much with too little. Just release the frequent game and develop ot over time.

[CraigSca]

To hell with the game, I can't wait for the promotional materials! Maybe it'll be a jar of Vick's Vap-o-rub?

[Emiliano]

Takes a long time to "hone" that box art.
:D

[Pumpy Tudors]

Oh, shit, I just noticed what year that "box art" notice was from. I had originally thought that that message was from a month ago. :eek:

[Bubba Wheels]

Well, the forum over there says that David Winter, developer has finished and its all in Matrixgames hands right now.

[Bubba Wheels]

C'mon, you can design and play games from any period in history. Check out these leather helmet days and tell me you aren't going to get this game.http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=997248

[MJ4H]

oh

[vex]

C'mon, you can design and play games from any period in history. Check out these leather helmet days and tell me you aren't going to get this game.http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=997248
I'm not going to get this game.

[st.cronin]

So, if this game is released, how long will it take them to get a patch out?

Or, will a patch not be needed?

[biological warrior]

I'll give it a shot, providing it is around the 24-25$ price range.

[Tigercat]

C'mon, you can design and play games from any period in history. Check out these leather helmet days and tell me you aren't going to get this game.http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=997248


Butt ugly graphics? Yea, that will get me to buy the game. Hell, stubby console Madden characters from the mid 90s look just as good as that attempt to make 3D players. Do some of those guys have white halloween masks over their faces?

Again, explain to my why a customizeable game with bad graphics and a who knows how good sim engine(probably sub par compared to whats out there) could possibly get you this excited? Or better yet, why should it get US excited? Answer: It Shouldn't.

[sovereignstar]

Butt ugly graphics? Yea, that will get me to buy the game. Hell, stubby console Madden characters from the mid 90s look just as good as that attempt to make 3D players. Do some of those guys have white halloween masks over their faces?

I think everything is customizable, so those white halloween masks could be gorilla masks or maybe even teenage mutant ninja turtle masks.

[Tigercat]

I think everything is customizable, so those white halloween masks could be gorilla masks or maybe even teenage mutant ninja turtle masks.

Sweet! I always wanted a game of Mike Ditka vs a team full of Michael Myers played on the surface of the moon!

[MizzouRah]

Might be the most un-anticipated football game ever for me. I want the FPS Series to RIP in my mind. :)

[Ben E Lou]

So, if this game is released, how long will it take them to get a patch out?

Or, will a patch not be needed?Based on how long everything else has taken, IF it is released, there's zero chance that I'm buying it unless I hear lots of positive reviews and feedbacks. There's no reason at this point to have any confidence that timely patches would be released.

[MalcPow]

Based on how long everything else has taken, IF it is released, there's zero chance that I'm buying it unless I hear lots of positive reviews and feedbacks. There's no reason at this point to have any confidence that timely patches would be released.

But patches don't need nearly as much box art work :D

[Pumpy Tudors]

Can you get banned for posting a fake Maximum Football release thread?

[Eaglesfan27]

Based on how long everything else has taken, IF it is released, there's zero chance that I'm buying it unless I hear lots of positive reviews and feedbacks. There's no reason at this point to have any confidence that timely patches would be released.
Ditto.

[MalcPow]

Only if you bash Michelle Wie and link to tubgirl AND fake a Maximum Football release...

[Bubba Wheels]

I still give alot of credit to David Winter for making this game. Consider that the sales of computer sports games are a fraction of that of the console games. Then consider that everybody who makes computer sports games makes them as text sims. So I don't care at all about the delays.

And any fair-minded person has to acknowledge that this game should have and would have already been out if the 'career-play' option hadn't been pushed so much. But it will just make for a better game when it does happen.

[yabanci]

those graphics look horrible. They remind me of that old tabletop football game where the field vibrates and the little figures buzz around mindlessly. Look at screenshot #3. Where is that defensive player running to? Someone needs to pause the vibration and reorient him in the right direction. Look at screenshot #5. The running back is taking it in for a score and the two safeties are frozen flatfooted deep in the end zone like statutes. This is going to be a disaster.

[biological warrior]

I still give alot of credit to David Winter for making this game. Consider that the sales of computer sports games are a fraction of that of the console games. Then consider that everybody who makes computer sports games makes them as text sims. So I don't care at all about the delays.

And any fair-minded person has to acknowledge that this game should have and would have already been out if the 'career-play' option hadn't been pushed so much. But it will just make for a better game when it does happen. I hope you are right because the genre needs a solid simulation, but right now it looks like crap but the release will tell I guess.
Right now Im hoping someone would remake Accolade's Legends of Football.

[sovereignstar]

those graphics look horrible. They remind me of that old tabletop football game where the field vibrates and the little figures buzz around mindlessly. Look at screenshot #3. Where is that defensive player running to? Someone needs to pause the vibration and reorient him in the right direction. Look at screenshot #5. The running back is taking it in for a score and the two safeties are frozen flatfooted deep in the end zone like statutes. This is going to be a disaster.

#5 is *really* funny.

[Desmond]

Ill buy everyone here a copy of the game just to see the glory that would ensue from a "Alright Boys, Maximum Football First Impressions" Thread over on those forums.

[astrosfan64]

those graphics look horrible. They remind me of that old tabletop football game where the field vibrates and the little figures buzz around mindlessly. Look at screenshot #3. Where is that defensive player running to? Someone needs to pause the vibration and reorient him in the right direction. Look at screenshot #5. The running back is taking it in for a score and the two safeties are frozen flatfooted deep in the end zone like statutes. This is going to be a disaster.

Classic Post.

[stevew]

Those screenshots look like Lego characters playing Football.

[biological warrior]

Bring back Legends of Football.

[Bonegavel]

Without intending to sounding too negative, this game is going to suck the most enormous donkey testicles that have ever been produced by ID/Evolution.

There isn't one post on that forum that leads me to believe that this game will be anything but a waste of time.

Besides, more money has been thrown at the madden franchise than any other football game in history and they still can't get the 3d aspect of the game right... how does this game have any chance?

Folks that play these types of sim games demand absolute accuracy. There is no way on earth this guy is going to be able to accomplish anything near satisfactory simulations.

At least madden has pretty graphics... from a simulation standpoint, madden is terrible. At this point in technology, you cannot have a football sim with the spreadsheet power of FOF and an accurate on the field simulation (again,that not even the front-runner madden gets right). Football is just too complex for our slow computers.

Someday? Yes. Now? No, especially by an indie developer with only a track record of missed deadlines.

[sabotai]

Football is just too complex for our slow computers.I could not disagree with this statement more.

Everything said about Maximum Football, however, I do agree with.

[gstelmack]

At this point in technology, you cannot have a football sim with the spreadsheet power of FOF and an accurate on the field simulation (again,that not even the front-runner madden gets right). Football is just too complex for our slow computers.
B.S. Madden hasn't done it yet because Madden focuses on joystick jockeys, not armchair coaches.

[Ragone]

Hmm... i may get this game.. just to see if a 8088 processor can handle those bad ass graphix!

[Samdari]

At this point in technology, you cannot have a football sim with the spreadsheet power of FOF and an accurate on the field simulation (again,that not even the front-runner madden gets right). Football is just too complex for our slow computers

To pile one, you are really wrong about this.

The reasons that nobody has released a game that does both well is economics. To develop such a game would cost more money than developing a game that does one well, and they would not be able to raise the price (since the only acceptable price for a new game is $50).

Football pro 97 did both well, and was released in 96. I don't think football has gotten much more complicated, or computers slower, in that time.

[ice4277]

I just re-read some of what SD posted on page 1 from the Maximum Football forum. I loved this from the designer/programmer/whatever:

"I posted a new build for the testers on Sunday night. Lets see what happens with that."

Gotta love the confidence!

[Bonegavel]

I could not disagree with this statement more.

Everything said about Maximum Football, however, I do agree with.So you are of the opinion that it is possible to accurately model 22 individual A.I.s on the field so as to be indistinguishable from the real thing?

Somebody needs to include this in a memo to the Madden Team.

I may not have the most knowledge of football, but I know it when I see it. The current state of computer power isn't enough to model the game exactly as we watch it on Sundays.

I don't want a graphical representation of the game until it can perfectly match life (and someday technology and programming will get there), otherwise-- what is the point? We nitpick with Jim and Arlie to get the text portion of it right; imagine how crazy you would be watching the game unfold in 3d on your screen and you see the AI doing stupid shit.

Maybe Jim or Arlie could weigh-in on this and tell me I'm full of shit and that we can do this with today's machines, but I highly doubt it.

[rkmsuf]

I've never seen so much talk about such a ham and egg project.

[gstelmack]

So you are of the opinion that it is possible to accurately model 22 individual A.I.s on the field so as to be indistinguishable from the real thing?Yes. Or at least close enough for gaming purposes. Heck, most of the football games out there really only have one or two annoying AI gaps, and they don't focus on AI really much at all (again, they're building AIs that are good opponents for joystick jockeys, not AIs that are good football players). If this were the focus of a game (a 3D football SIM rather than a 3D football action game), there's no reason it couldn't be very solid.

[John Galt]

I think the only thing missing from this thread is a post by Wrongway saying "this will be the greatest selling game of all time. And Wie sucks." Sadly, that can't happen.

[MizzouRah]

So you are of the opinion that it is possible to accurately model 22 individual A.I.s on the field so as to be indistinguishable from the real thing?

Somebody needs to include this in a memo to the Madden Team.

I may not have the most knowledge of football, but I know it when I see it. The current state of computer power isn't enough to model the game exactly as we watch it on Sundays.

I don't want a graphical representation of the game until it can perfectly match life (and someday technology and programming will get there), otherwise-- what is the point? We nitpick with Jim and Arlie to get the text portion of it right; imagine how crazy you would be watching the game unfold in 3d on your screen and you see the AI doing stupid shit.

Maybe Jim or Arlie could weigh-in on this and tell me I'm full of shit and that we can do this with today's machines, but I highly doubt it.
You may be right with the "perfectly match life" portion of your statement, but the FPS series was/is/might always be the best of both worlds. It had some problems, but it did a lot right. The series was evolving like Madden does in terms of graphics, but Sierra pulled the plug. :(

[dawgfan]

So you are of the opinion that it is possible to accurately model 22 individual A.I.s on the field so as to be indistinguishable from the real thing?
Absolutely. The reason they don't doesn't have to do with computational power so much as it does economics - the amount of time and energy to tweak the AI algorithms to approach 95% of reality is simply not worth the payoff.

And even if they did, people would still bitch. Think about every time an AI player misread/forgot/blew the play call and was wildly out of position (just like what happens every Sunday in reality) - the gamer would bitch and moan about what a "stupid" AI it is.

Now, what may also be limiting the AI is the connection to the 3D engine. There's a range of possibilities that can happen when you connect the logic code of the game to the 3D engine, ranging from the logic has absolute control over the movement of the players at the expense of the animations to the animations have complete control at the expense of the logic. Madden runs closer to the first extreme - they realize it's more important to get the player in the right spot than to have the animation run smoothly. That's why you see foot sliding and awkward looking transitions. But I think they do provide a slight amount of concession to the animations at the expense of the logic to keep the animations from looking too awful.

As game console processors get more powerful, this will allow for more sophisticated blending systems to be integrated into the 3D engines which will allow the logic code to completely govern movement in the games while also providing very realistic animations and transitions.

[Surtt]

It is a trade off.
AI takes lots of cpu time.
Graphics takes lots of cpu time.
Which do you think Madden chooses?

[CraigSca]

I'll be the lone dissenting vote here. If I was a solo developer, I'd be pretty damn proud if these were the graphics I was able to offer.

[Bee]

The graphics don't bother me at all, I'd be more concerned about how well the AI and career play turns out (assuming the game is actually released at some point).

[astrosfan64]

So you are of the opinion that it is possible to accurately model 22 individual A.I.s on the field so as to be indistinguishable from the real thing?

Somebody needs to include this in a memo to the Madden Team.

I may not have the most knowledge of football, but I know it when I see it. The current state of computer power isn't enough to model the game exactly as we watch it on Sundays.

I don't want a graphical representation of the game until it can perfectly match life (and someday technology and programming will get there), otherwise-- what is the point? We nitpick with Jim and Arlie to get the text portion of it right; imagine how crazy you would be watching the game unfold in 3d on your screen and you see the AI doing stupid shit.

Maybe Jim or Arlie could weigh-in on this and tell me I'm full of shit and that we can do this with today's machines, but I highly doubt it.

They can do it in SIGAMES Football Manager. What makes you think they can't do it in American Football.

[astrosfan64]

It is a trade off.
AI takes lots of cpu time.
Graphics takes lots of cpu time.
Which do you think Madden chooses?

Wrong.

Graphics are generally done with the video card now. The Processor has very little to do with the graphics.

[sovereignstar]

My face

Wrong!

[astrosfan64]

Wrong!

I don't get it.

[dawgfan]

Wrong.

Graphics are generally done with the video card now. The Processor has very little to do with the graphics.
This is correct - most (if not all) of the graphics processing is handled by the GPU, not the CPU.

[JeffR]

They can do it in SIGAMES Football Manager. What makes you think they can't do it in American Football.

If anything, the real trick is having the players make mistakes. An AI quarterback can look at all his receivers on a play and make the highest-percentage pass 100% of the time. To be a realistic model, though, he has to make bad choices occasionally, and his reaction time has to be slowed down to something less than instant.

[gstelmack]

Wrong.

Graphics are generally done with the video card now. The Processor has very little to do with the graphics.Hehehe. You're funny.

Maybe for actually DRAWING the graphics, but there is still a TON of setup work in deciding what to draw. Trust me, the rendering folks still want access to PLENTY of CPU for their work.

[Bonegavel]

They can do it in SIGAMES Football Manager. What makes you think they can't do it in American Football.I'll concede that Soccer must be a little more complicated than just running around on a big field trying to kick a little ball in a giant goal, but please, American Football is way more complicated than Soccer.

[sabotai]

So you are of the opinion that it is possible to accurately model 22 individual A.I.s on the field so as to be indistinguishable from the real thing?Absolutely.

I may not have the most knowledge of footballAnd exactly how knowledgable are you in the field of computer programming and artificial intelligence?

[astrosfan64]

I'll concede that Soccer must be a little more complicated than just running around on a big field trying to kick a little ball in a giant goal, but please, American Football is way more complicated than Soccer.

I don't think so. American football is only 4 to 10 seconds long per play. Soccer is continous flow.
When a player has a ball in soccer he must make a ton of decisions.

In football, a lineman either blocks or well blocks. Granted he must decided who to block. But, in general he either man blocks or zone blocks. Now there are positions that require more thought such as the QB, but in general on a play a person is given a command. He is supposed to perform the action the playbook tells him too.

Either game can be modeled accurately. I believe both would take years of tweaking the engine and input from experts in the field. Years meaning, it took SI Games about 8 years or more to accurately depict 2d gameplay. I don't believe you can say one is easier or harder then the other.

All I want is a 2d model, simple x and o for a football game. That will prove the engine.

[Bonegavel]

And exactly how knowledgable are you in the field of computer programming and artificial intelligence?I forget which version of Quake it was (maybe III) but John Carmack (a man that knows a little about this stuff) spoke about AI and how extremely difficult it is to code. He also mentioned the amount of CPU that needs to be dedicated to each "bot" and the number wasn't small (even for that time), and that is just for simple FPS games.

Keep in mind that this is all way beyond simple if/then logic.

Yes, I know you are a coder. I've written my share of c++ apps in my day, so, while I'm not making a living at it, I at least can look at this with some knowledge of how this stuff is structured.

[moriarty]

I forget which version of Quake it was (maybe III) but John Carmack (a man that knows a little about this stuff) spoke about AI and how extremely difficult it is to code. He also mentioned the amount of CPU that needs to be dedicated to each "bot" and the number wasn't small (even for that time), and that is just for simple FPS games.

Keep in mind that this is all way beyond simple if/then logic.

Yes, I know you are a coder. I've written my share of c++ apps in my day, so, while I'm not making a living at it, I at least can look at this with some knowledge of how this stuff is structured.

I think the issue is that a FPS like Quake has to run at so many frames per second to look good (regardless of whether the GPU is doing the rendering work). If you have multiple logic/movement decisions going on, they all have to be able to occur within that frame rate timespan. Perhaps if you took a less graphics intensive appraoch like FM, you can get by with a lower framerate and have more time to run logic intensive routines between each frame.

[sabotai]

I forget which version of Quake it was (maybe III) but John Carmack (a man that knows a little about this stuff) spoke about AI and how extremely difficult it is to code. He also mentioned the amount of CPU that needs to be dedicated to each "bot" and the number wasn't small (even for that time), and that is just for simple FPS games.

Keep in mind that this is all way beyond simple if/then logic.I spend more time reading, designing and coding AI than I do any one other thing, so I know a bit about this too. And if the AI bots for Quake 3 were the pinnicle of his AI expertise, I hope he sticks to just the math and graphics engine programming (Carmack is a genius, and I do look up to him, but he's not going to be god at everything. For instance, he's just not that good of a game designer and he's even acknowledged that. And AI is more about design than it is technical.).

Besides, an AI bot for Q3 is not an AI bot for football. They are two very different things.

I have a pretty good idea as to what would be needed to create a (2D top down) simulation of football and the AI required (and yes, well beyond simple if/then logic). It's very do-able.

[Groundhog]

I'll concede that Soccer must be a little more complicated than just running around on a big field trying to kick a little ball in a giant goal, but please, American Football is way more complicated than Soccer.

Out of the major sports, I can think of few that would be easier (note: this does still not mean easy) to have a fluid 2D display for than American football, except for of course baseball. Basketball/soccer/ice hockey/rugby etc. are all fluid sports that are, by and large, continous. With American football it's a down at a time, and the offense and defense are both coming out with set plays. Of course there's still a heck of a lot that goes on down on the field, but after the play is over, the whole thing resets and everyone is back in position.

[kcchief19]

To pile one, you are really wrong about this.

The reasons that nobody has released a game that does both well is economics. To develop such a game would cost more money than developing a game that does one well, and they would not be able to raise the price (since the only acceptable price for a new game is $50).

Football pro 97 did both well, and was released in 96. I don't think football has gotten much more complicated, or computers slower, in that time.Largely I agree. To have a game with the graphics of a Madden game with the financial engine of FOF has nothing to do with CPU resources, video cards or anything else -- it has to do with the fact that you are talking about double the development time and resources. You're essential designing two games.

Sierra's FPS was a hybrid -- but I'd say that rather than double development time, they spend the same amount of development time as say Madden did, but re-allocated resources from graphics to the spreadsheet side. As a result, you got a game that wasn't as good as Madden graphically and a game that wasn't as good as FOF spreadsheet wise. I think Sierra also wisely built onto the game each year rather than starting from scratch. Unfortunately, with '99 they decided to do just that and showed that you can't do high-end graphics and high-end spreadsheet within the traditional development cycle. Given another six months and another $15/game, they could have pulled it off.

You can't get a football game with Madden-esque graphics and a FOF-esque engine without adding another $15 in price at least, and the market simply won't bare that. Joystick jockeys won't pay it.

[stevew]

Out of the major sports, I can think of few that would be easier (note: this does still not mean easy) to have a fluid 2D display for than American football, except for of course baseball. Basketball/soccer/ice hockey/rugby etc. are all fluid sports that are, by and large, continous. With American football it's a down at a time, and the offense and defense are both coming out with set plays. Of course there's still a heck of a lot that goes on down on the field, but after the play is over, the whole thing resets and everyone is back in position.


Yeah, especially because of the set plays. Which is not to argue that other sports dont have them, but in football, you'd already have a basis for where the AI is planning to run/pass the ball, so that you could work the options off of that. And in many cases, 2-3 members of the defense wouldnt even be involved in the first level of the play, so you could probably mimic their AI without much intensive use.

[gstelmack]

I spend more time reading, designing and coding AI than I do any one other thing, so I know a bit about this too. And if the AI bots for Quake 3 were the pinnicle of his AI expertise, I hope he sticks to just the math and graphics engine programming (Carmack is a genius, and I do look up to him, but he's not going to be god at everything. For instance, he's just not that good of a game designer and he's even acknowledged that. And AI is more about design than it is technical.).
You ain't kidding. I call the original Quake AI a "PacMan" AI, because that's pretty much all the monsters did. It boiled down to:

Do I see the player? If so, attack!
Have I seen the player in the last 5 seconds? If so, run after him!
Otherwise, go back to stomping around in the room I was placed in.

That's pretty much it.

[DaddyTorgo]

you mean this game STILL hasn't been released?? I thought we were assuming it would be out weeks ago!!

http://www.operationsports.com/fofc/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

[QuikSand]

According to the web site, its release will coincide nicely with last year's Superbowl. Fear not.

[duckman]

Best. Thread. Ever.

[DaddyTorgo]

oh i don't fear, because i have no intention of buying it. i fall in the same camp as SD really...if the game took this long to come out, i can't imagine the support for it is going to be where it needs to be for a first-gen game.

[MizzouRah]

According to the web site, its release will coincide nicely with last year's Superbowl. Fear not.
:D

[Desmond]

Give the dude some time god damnit, Matrix is still working on the box and manual.

[Desmond]

I've never seen so much talk about such a ham and egg project.

Ham and Eggs you say? Tell me more.

[JPhillips]

They should offer a pre-release discount like OOTP.

[Groundhog]

I finally went to the website just now and as soon as I saw the first screen shot I went "Oooooohhh...... THIS game, I remember looking at these screenshots 3 years ago and thinking that this had potential"...

[Bonegavel]

Ham and Eggs you say? Tell me more.
FUNEX?
IFX.
FUNEM?
IFM.
IFMNX.

[sovereignstar]

We are in the home stretch, no question about it, but we are not going to make it before the weekend. Keep an eye out for a gone gold press release and it shouldn't be more than a week after that. Given the way things are going, I would say a February release is certain and likely to be by mid-February.

Regards,

- Erik

.

[rkmsuf]

Ham and Eggs you say? Tell me more.

Calling someone a ham and egger back in the day meant you were a street tough.

[CraigSca]

.
This is great news. I wonder if it comes with the 2002 rosters?

[Bee]

Taking a step into fantasy land for a moment and assuming the game is released mid-February...considering the game's been in development for 5-6 years (or whatever it is now), how smart is it to release it AFTER the football season is over?

[SFL Cat]

After 5-6 years, i would think just getting the thing out is something of a moral victory, whether football season is over or not.

[bbor]

I'm thinking of releasing a hockey sim....the day baseball season starts.

I am a marketing god.

[bbor]

After 5-6 years, i would think just getting the thing out is something of a morONISH victory, whether football season is over or not.

Fixed

:D

[SFL Cat]

Fixed

:D

Well, yes...if it plays like something that should be running on a Commodore 64!
;)

[Ragone]

Duke Nukem Forever 2 could be out before this.. its still possible!

[Wolfpack]

Duke Nukem Forever 2 could be out before this.. its still possible!

Maybe, but does Duke Nukem Forever 2 beat Duke Nukem Forever for release? :)

[Bee]

This game is going to be so bad it's not even funny...

I love this comment when asked if the game would have a college draft:


All seasons must start with a draft from the free agent pool.

The draft is free agents.. not a true "college draft". The game doesn't know anything about colleges per se.


Sounds like the game doesn't know anything about pro football per se, either. :D

[John Galt]

Sounds like the game doesn't know anything about pro football per se, either. :D

I know this is a horrible joke, but wouldn't it make sense to rename the game "Minimum Football."

[Bee]

And this when asked if there would be a demo of the game:


I've given some thought to a demo and I'm not convinced there is a good way to do one. So much of the game is open source that it would be virtually impossible to have a demo that couldn't be modified into an almost full version of the game.

The only way around this is to actually branch from the full release code base and create a code stream for a demo with hard coded values for quarter time and and whatever other restrictions the demo would include. This introduces a bunch of logistical issues I really can't deal with at the moment. That and the fact that you would be restricting the user from experiencing the core feature of the game, which is its flexibility.

In other words...No demo. :D

[Bee]

I know this is a horrible joke, but wouldn't it make sense to rename the game "Minimum Football."

Or maybe just Minimum. ;)

[sovereignstar]

In other words...No demo. :D

Someone is gonna have to be the guineau pig then. And someone we can trust. Just might have to hunt down Suicane for this job.

[CraigSca]

I'm glad the game will be flexible enough for me to play with 6 downs, 18 yards for a first down and 7 quarters like I've always wanted. When you have that, who needs something silly like a college football draft? Purely extraneous.

[MalcPow]

I made a suggestion about a year ago that number of appendages should be an editable feature in a player's profile. I was primarily interested in creating a historical league that would try to simulate the kind of success Lawrence Taylor might have had if he were equipped with three arms instead of two. The suggestion was met pretty warmly, so I was initially excited. Looking back though, I'm thinking this may have caused some difficult coding challenges and probably some serious box art issues. I can't help but think that I have contributed pretty significantly to the delay of this game. I guess I just wanted to apologize.

[Ben E Lou]

I'm glad the game will be flexible enough for me to play with 6 downs, 18 yards for a first down and 7 quarters like I've always wanted. When you have that, who needs something silly like a college football draft? Purely extraneous.They spent six years coming up with this? Who is their lead programmer? Lucy Ewing?

[gstelmack]

Now, to be fair, they are trying to create a customizable football sim, and not all football leagues have drafts. For example, what about a college league?

Of course, since the delay has been to add career mode, I have no clue why they don't consider a draft part of career mode...

[Ben E Lou]

All seasons must start with a draft from the free agent pool.

The draft is free agents.. not a true "college draft". The game doesn't know anything about colleges per se.The more I think about this, the more incredulous I am. If there's already a "draft" in place, one would assume (yeah, I know...) that there is Draft AI in place. How long would it take to assign rookies to a college??? 15 minutes?

Oh wait, that must be it. Clearly he's concerned about the vital importance of getting his game out in a timely fashion.

[Coffee Warlord]

How long would it take to assign rookies to a college??? 15 minutes?

15 months. Why? Because the manual and the box would have to be completely redone were he to put such groundbreaking things as "college drafts" in.

[Ben E Lou]

Now, to be fair, they are trying to create a customizable football sim, and not all football leagues have drafts. For example, what about a college league.A college league where you "draft" players onto your team rather than recruit them? That sounds like fun...

[SFL Cat]

A college league where you "draft" players onto your team rather than recruit them? That sounds like fun...

True! I can pull out my checkbook and build a football power at Temple University that current school officials can only dream about.
:cool:

[Bee]

True! I can pull out my checkbook and build a football power at Temple University that current school officials can only dream about.
:cool:

You think the game has financials, salaries, etc. I'm afraid to look it up myself. :D

[Eaglesfan27]

You think the game has financials, salaries, etc. I'm afraid to look it up myself. :D
I don't believe it does, but I think there were database fields for modders to add those if they wanted to do so....

I know I won't be the guinea pig on this one :)

[moriarty]

Yeah, I want to know which one of you is going to actually buy this when it first comes out (if it comes out). I know it will be someone ... just not sure if you'll be willing to admit it.

[gstelmack]

I may take a look. IF (and that's a big IF) the sim engine is solid, I have no problem adding on the league management tools I want. One of my first game utilities was a draft-file generator / player aging manager for Head Coach Football on the Commodore Amiga, which also had absolutely no career mode support but had all the data files as an open text format...

[rkmsuf]

pigs flying or maximum football release


Too close to call!

[yabanci]

Yeah, I want to know which one of you is going to actually buy this when it first comes out (if it comes out). I know it will be someone ... just not sure if you'll be willing to admit it.

bubba wheels, and he'll give it glowing 10 star reviews, just to save face for pimping the game for the last 12 years.

[duckman]

I love this thread! One gem after another.

[Ben E Lou]

I just HAVE to know.

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/image/asc.gif (http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=1044098&mpage=1&key=&#) <table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="98%"> <tbody><tr> <td align="center" bgcolor="#336699"> <table border="0" cellpadding="4" cellspacing="1" width="100%"> <tbody><tr> <td class="cat" colspan="2" bgcolor="#d8d8db"> <table border="0" cellpadding="1" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr> <td width="*"> http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/micons/m1.gif RE: Drafting in Maximum Football - 2/4/2006 12:19:11 AM </td> <td align="right" nowrap="nowrap"> <table border="0" cellpadding="2" cellspacing="0" width="10"> <tbody><tr> <td align="right"> http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/image/replyflat1.gif (http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:void%28powin%28%27post.asp?do=reply&messageID=1051892&toStyle=tm%27%29%29)</td> <td align="right"> http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/image/replyflat.gif (http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:void%28powin%28%27post.asp?do=reply&q=1&messageID=1051892&toStyle=tm%27%29%29)</td><td align="right"> http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/image/editflat.gif (http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:void%28powin%28%27edit.asp?messageID=1051892&toStyle=tm%27%29%29)</td> <td align="right"> http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/image/forwardflat.gif (http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:void%28fwdwin%28%27fwd.asp?messageID=1051892%27%29%29)</td> <td align="right"><script>showPicture("2/3/2006 7:19:11 PM",0,0,0,1044098,154)</script>http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/image/board_s.gif</td> </tr> </tbody></table> </td> </tr> </tbody></table> </td> </tr> <tr> <td class="ultrasmall" bgcolor="#e1e1e1" nowrap="nowrap" valign="top" width="150"> SkyDog (http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/showProfile.asp?memid=17821)
<script>titleAndStar(2,0,0,false,"","")</script>Matrix Recruit
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/image/0star.gif


Posts: 2
Joined: 8/20/2005
Status: online http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/image/blank.gif </td> <td class="msg" bgcolor="#e1e1e1" valign="top" width="100%"> quote:

ORIGINAL: David Winter

All seasons must start with a draft from the free agent pool.

The draft is free agents.. not a true "college draft". The game doesn't know anything about colleges per se.
You have GOT to be kidding me. A "career" mode in a football game without a college draft, and (it would certainly appear) no bidding for free agents? Please elucidate as to your thinking on this decision.
(in reply to David Winter (http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=1044098&mpage=1&key=&#1045735))
</td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" bgcolor="#d8d8db" width="100%"> <table border="0" cellpadding="1" cellspacing="1" width="100%"> <tbody><tr> <td>
</td> <td align="right"> Post #: 5 (http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=1044098&mpage=1&key=&#) http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/image/asc.gif (http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=1044098&mpage=1&key=&#)</td> </tr> </tbody></table> </td> </tr> </tbody></table> </td> </tr> </tbody> </table> <!-- Message Ends Here --> Page: [1]

[JeeberD]

Ooh! Shit just got serious now!

[Icy]

No draft? what has the career mode then? I hope that at least the games are played with a ball.

If i had any doubt about purchasing it all them are gone now.

[st.cronin]

Who's going to commish the fofc multiplayer league?

[dervack]

I just HAVE to know.

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/image/asc.gif (http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=1044098&mpage=1&key=&#) <table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="98%"> <tbody><tr> <td align="center" bgcolor="#336699"> <table border="0" cellpadding="4" cellspacing="1" width="100%"> <tbody><tr> <td class="cat" colspan="2" bgcolor="#d8d8db"> <table border="0" cellpadding="1" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr> <td width="*"> http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/micons/m1.gif RE: Drafting in Maximum Football - 2/4/2006 12:19:11 AM </td> <td align="right" nowrap="nowrap"> <table border="0" cellpadding="2" cellspacing="0" width="10"> <tbody><tr> <td align="right"> http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/image/replyflat1.gif (http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:void%28powin%28%27post.asp?do=reply&messageID=1051892&toStyle=tm%27%29%29)</td> <td align="right"> http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/image/replyflat.gif (http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:void%28powin%28%27post.asp?do=reply&q=1&messageID=1051892&toStyle=tm%27%29%29)</td><td align="right"> http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/image/editflat.gif (http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:void%28powin%28%27edit.asp?messageID=1051892&toStyle=tm%27%29%29)</td> <td align="right"> http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/image/forwardflat.gif (http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:void%28fwdwin%28%27fwd.asp?messageID=1051892%27%29%29)</td> <td align="right"><script>showPicture("2/3/2006 7:19:11 PM",0,0,0,1044098,154)</script>http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/image/board_s.gif</td> </tr> </tbody></table> </td> </tr> </tbody></table> </td> </tr> <tr> <td class="ultrasmall" bgcolor="#e1e1e1" nowrap="nowrap" valign="top" width="150"> SkyDog (http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/showProfile.asp?memid=17821)
<script>titleAndStar(2,0,0,false,"","")</script>Matrix Recruit
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/image/0star.gif


Posts: 2
Joined: 8/20/2005
Status: online http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/image/blank.gif </td> <td class="msg" bgcolor="#e1e1e1" valign="top" width="100%"> quote:

ORIGINAL: David Winter

All seasons must start with a draft from the free agent pool.

The draft is free agents.. not a true "college draft". The game doesn't know anything about colleges per se.
You have GOT to be kidding me. A "career" mode in a football game without a college draft, and (it would certainly appear) no bidding for free agents? Please elucidate as to your thinking on this decision.
(in reply to David Winter (http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=1044098&mpage=1&key=&#1045735))
</td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" bgcolor="#d8d8db" width="100%"> <table border="0" cellpadding="1" cellspacing="1" width="100%"> <tbody><tr> <td>
</td> <td align="right"> Post #: 5 (http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=1044098&mpage=1&key=&#) http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/image/asc.gif (http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=1044098&mpage=1&key=&#)</td> </tr> </tbody></table> </td> </tr> </tbody></table> </td> </tr> </tbody> </table> <!-- Message Ends Here --> Page: [1]
Oh man. His reply to this is just priceless. Why does one need a college draft? The way he makes it sound, is that there is a career mode, but no aging modifier therefore no players retiring, therefore no need for college players. WTF?

[sovereignstar]

Who's going to commish the fofc multiplayer league?

Multiplayer? Let's not get ahead of ourselves here. Priorities in order are:

Box art
Draft
Free Agency
Multiplayer

[DaddyTorgo]

post the reply dervack? i don't wanna go looking for it

[sovereignstar]

Oh man. His reply to this is just priceless. Why does one need a college draft? The way he makes it sound, is that there is a career mode, but no aging modifier therefore no players retiring, therefore no need for college players. WTF?

Oh boy. Someone just get it over with and link him to this thread so this party can really get started.

[Neuqua]

A career mode has nothing to do with what sort of draft you have. You only need the ability to replace lost players via a draft of a collection of players. Whether or not they're from college means nothing. College is just a pool of free agents that have no pro experience.

His response.

[dervack]

A career mode has nothing to do with what sort of draft you have. You only need the ability to replace lost players via a draft of a collection of players. Whether or not they're from college means nothing. College is just a pool of free agents that have no pro experience.

Besides, the game lets you create college and highschool (and pee wee for that matter) leagues.. where would a "college draft" fit in?

.

[yabanci]

At least the future looks bright:

What are the plans for the future?

Eventually the goal is to approach one of the many sports networks for sponsorship. This will provide some capital to add to the development staff and make overall improvements to the game. Would this include a professional license? That is not known. Any pro league that would sign on would have to agree to keep the customizable rules system in place. It is hard to imagine the CFL licensing a game product that allowed playing the game with 4 downs.

Maximum-Football is going to be the flagship in a line of sports titles for the PC. All bearing the Maximum mark. In the next year you will see Maximum-Hockey and Maximum-Lacrosse. In the distant future I hope to also have Maximum-Baseball.

But for now, Maximum-Football is king.

[DaddyTorgo]

in some sense I suppose that makes sense. i mean i can understand where he's coming from with that answer, in terms of maximum customizability, but it certainly doesn't make the game appealing.

[st.cronin]

I know what those words mean, but that response makes no sense.

[sovereignstar]

In all seriousness, what are guys actually going to do with this game?

[DaddyTorgo]

not buy it

[QuikSand]

I love this thread.

[Bee]

Since I didn't understand what the hell he was getting at with his response to SkyDog's post, I posted this on their forums:


So you didn't want to do a "college draft" because it doesn't fit in with a league simulating, for example, college football ...but you still have a "draft of a collection of players" just without the ability to associate them to some previous school, correct? Does that really simulate college recruiting better than a "college draft" where the school names would be editable? Am I missing something here because that makes absolutely no sense to me.

Also, what about the free agency bidding question raised by SkyDog, is his assumption accurate?

[KWhit]

Just went to the website. Wow...

News: July 12, 2001


The Maximum-Football play editor and playbook editor beta 1 will be released for public use/testing in the next short while.
The player model has been completed and the uniform pattern has been passed to artists for creation of uniform sets. Screen shots of the player will be added once the first uniforms have been created.
The database engine is nearing completion.
The 3D engine (http://www.truevision3dsdk.com/) issues have been worked out. The engine now supports all the functions required and is currently undergoing optimization. Please note: Due to our selection of engine, this game will require a modern 3D card such as the ATI Radeon or GeForce2 cards. Older cards such as the Voodoo4 and below series may not play the game properly due to their use of 3Dfx chipsets.
Expect to see the first serious game screens in the coming weeks.

[sovereignstar]

To expand on my question above a little:

We've got: FOF/TPF, Action PC!, Sierra's FBPRO, Football Mogul, and Madden

Does this game offer ANYTHING else new besides the rules customization?

[astrosfan64]

In all seriousness, what are guys actually going to do with this game?

Good question. Head to Head online play isn't included. That is the biggest reason, I would want to play this game. Assuming it is not crap and it is a good simmulation. I was hoping to recapture some the feel of the FBPro online leagues. With no head to head, it isn't going to be possible.

[Ben E Lou]

He answered you, Bee, and it would appear from his answer that he sees no difference between a draft and free agency. "There simply needed to be a way to fill empty spots on a roster at the beginning of every season."

[Ben E Lou]

Dola:

Seriously, they delayed the game by a YEAR to add a career mode that offers.....what?

[sovereignstar]

Dola:

Seriously, they delayed the game by a YEAR to add a career mode that offers.....what?

Experience + 1 ??? I haven't been able to find what else. Sounds like nothing else is going to be automated.

[sabotai]

Dola:

Seriously, they delayed the game by a YEAR to add a career mode that offers.....what?Hey now, come on. As a programmer, I feel the need to step in here and say something...

It takes a LONG time to write out and test:

m_GameFile->SetYear(CurrentYear + 1);
m_GameFile->SaveFile();

Ok. Now leave the guy alone.

;)

[Bee]

It sounds like "career play" basically means you can play more than one season. And that's all it seems to mean...

I'm sure someone with plenty of time on their hands could build a game around this somehow with a bunch of mods for taking care of all the real career stuff, but seriously if someone is going to put forth that much effort they should just design their own game and sell it.

[IwasHere]

Someone is gonna have to be the guineau pig then.


Lets get WrongWay to do it, he hates everything! :D

[sovereignstar]

Well FWIW, I did some searching over at the Matrix Games forums and saw that someone quoted David saying this (in Jan '05):

... players now age and retire. Number of seasons played, and injuries are currently the only items that are taken into account for "retirements". Age effects the physical SA's of players (SPD, STR, etc...)

To begin a new season you'll be asked to do the following in the order of.

- Create New Season (schedule generated, players retire, new ones added to FA listing). Once you have started playing the season you can't add or remove teams.

- Complete league draft.

- Run Training Camp to hone player skills.

- Teams must be at league required roster sizes before playing a league game.

- Injured players are listed on the team roster, but not counted toward the active roster.

- Quick play games have no impact whatsoever on any of this and the only thing it checks for is the correct active roster size.

There are a couple of other things too but I'm in the process of working all that out.

A good chunk of this is already working and that's really all I have the time to do. I can't give any more details until the game is released as things are subject to change.

[sovereignstar]

Dola..

It's entirely possible that the box art caused an item or three to be abandoned off that list.

[ahbrady]

Maximum-Football is going to be the flagship in a line of sports titles for the PC. All bearing the Maximum mark. In the next year you will see Maximum-Hockey and Maximum-Lacrosse. In the distant future I hope to also have Maximum-Baseball.

So we can expect Maximum-Baseball by early next century. I can't wait.

[IwasHere]

So we can expect Maximum-Baseball by early next century. I can't wait.
I thought that was the release date of the demo? :)

[JPhillips]

Actually there will be no demo.

Without box art what's the point?

[sabotai]

Hahaha.

The guy actually claimed that his project was 8 times as complex as Jim's or Alrie's because his has a play editor and 3D graphics, even though he readily acknowledges his game has an almost complete lack of any team management AI (plus no college drafts, free agent signing period, contract negotioations, and who knows what else).


Oh, but you can have as many teams in your league as you want. Well there you go...much more complex.

[Eaglesfan27]

Hahaha.

The guy actually claimed that his project was 8 times as complex as Jim's or Alrie's because his has a play editor and 3D graphics, even though he readily acknowledges his game has an almost complete lack of any team management AI (plus no college drafts, free agent signing period, contract negotioations, and who knows what else).


Oh, but you can have as many teams in your league as you want. Well there you go...much more complex.
Where did he make that claim? I want to read it and laugh :)

[sabotai]

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=1044098&mpage=1&key=&#

[Eaglesfan27]

Thanks. Just finished reading that thread. Now, I'm even more resolute not to be the guinea pig.

[stevew]

Man, if ever there was a reason for Warez, this would be it.

[Izulde]

This game is going to be so unbelievably bad it'll make playing Barbie games thrilling.

Here's to hoping Division Rivals comes through with a demo sometime in the next couple years. They at least have an idea of wtf a multi-tiered leagues game should be like.

[Bee]

So basically, from what I can gather...this is taking a game that's 11 years old, updating the graphics to circa 1999, adding flexibility to rules/league customization and reducing what little career mode ability the original game had?

Anyone want to guess how well this game's going to sell?

[Dutch]

So basically, from what I can gather...this is taking a game that's 11 years old, updating the graphics to circa 1999, adding flexibility to rules/league customization and reducing what little career mode ability the original game had?

Anyone want to guess how well this game's going to sell?

But imagine how many people have a GF2 or better card! The game can be played on modded out typewriters in North Korea.

[Solecismic]

I really do not care what other independent guys do. I really don't. They are not building this game. They have their games with a few spread sheets and some dialog boxes. Big whoop. I did that in 1990.

Ouch. Got me there. I was still in school in 1990.

I think he's forgetting my 3-D instant replay function from TCY, though.

This guy is a real trip. Can't wait to see how he reacts to the first few bug reports.

[Ben E Lou]

Can't wait to see how he reacts to the first few bug reports.What bugs? It has been in beta for two years now, hasn't it? There won't be bugs, right?

[timmynausea]

I think he meant that he first announced that this game would be finished in 1990, which is also when people stopped saying "Big Whoop".

[Gary Gorski]

I really do not care what other independent guys do. I really don't. They are not building this game. They have their games with a few spread sheets and some dialog boxes. Big whoop. I did that in 1990.

That must have been the basis for maximum football - back in 1990 the feature list he has would have been something to look at. He probably did all the AI stuff with the spreadsheets and dialog boxes then and spent the last 16 years working on the 3D engine, manual, box art and adding a revolutionary aging process - imagine making players get a year older after a season! If only some of us independent guys could do that. We need to stop wasting our time with trading, drafting, recruiting and financial AI and do more important things like making sure you can have 9 chances for your lego people to make a first down.

[digamma]

So he's touting that his game works very similarly to games released 10-11 years ago?

[Dutch]

So he's touting that his game works very similarly to games released 10-11 years ago?

Are you suggesting that if I loaded up Front Page Sports '95 that I'd have a working demo of the product? :)

[Bee]

Are you suggesting that if I loaded up Front Page Sports '95 that I'd have a working demo of the product? :)

Playing FPS95 to evaluate Maximum Football would probably more like playing last year's version of Madden to evaluate this year's version, but yeah something like that.

[Solecismic]

We need to stop wasting our time with trading, drafting, recruiting and financial AI and do more important things like making sure you can have 9 chances for your lego people to make a first down.

Gary, my game plan dialog boxes only have room for four downs' worth of choices when it comes to game planning. To go to nine downs would require a completely different dialog box.

I'm afraid I just don't have the flexibility to do that. It would take me at least a year to add that kind of flexibility option.

[stevew]

Lego sports football rulez!

[digamma]

The weather system has been updated. Snow and rain effect uniforms as can be seen in the last screen shot. Players hitting the ground have their uniforms effected. No effect on game play, but I think it looks better.
Apparently the new weather system makes all players wear snowboarding boots.

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/upfiles/14718/5ED4FB9896F2470DAFC8F93811734642.jpg

[Tigercat]

The grounds crew did a terrific job of seperating the snow perfectly away from the field lines. Such a good job that both teams can only stand and look at the field in awe.

[albionmoonlight]

This is a top 5 thread of all time. Especially when you combine it with the thread from the other board.

Also, I think that David Winter is just one of our regulars in disguise messing with us. No one can be THAT clueless.

[Bubba Wheels]

Winters reports on site that final has been given to Matrix for distribution. Video killed the radio star. Bad graphics are still graphics.

[Ben E Lou]

Bad graphics are still graphics.It is time to restore the QOTM.

[Bee]

This is a top 5 thread of all time. Especially when you combine it with the thread from the other board.

Also, I think that David Winter is just one of our regulars in disguise messing with us. No one can be THAT clueless.

Since he's from Canada, my guess is it's FrogMan. :D

[Solecismic]

The grounds crew did a terrific job of seperating the snow perfectly away from the field lines. Such a good job that both teams can only stand and look at the field in awe.

I know I wouldn't want to walk on that pristine snow any more than these players. With those giant feet, the footprints might mark even the dry grass.

It does make me feel warm inside to know that his engine is flexible enough to allow for players with giant feet. As someone who wears a size 13 shoe myself, I'm tired of archaic games like Madden that only cater to those in the 10-12 range.

[digamma]

My heart does a little flutter when I click on "General Discussion" and see that Bubba has the last reply in this thread.

[Desmond]

Yall are just being mean at this point. You poo poo'd on the idea that the game would ever be released for so long instead of posting this stuff over there then. Now that the game, who's features and lack thereof have been known all along, is close to release all you're doing is piling on. It doesn't sound like David is much more than a guy who has spent a long time trying to make a game he wanted to make, it may suck, but really, why do you have to be so vicious at this point?

And yeah, I know i'm gonna get flamed. And I also find alot of it amusing, but lets try and not be bullies.

[sovereignstar]

Yall are just being mean at this point. You poo poo'd on the idea that the game would ever be released for so long instead of posting this stuff over there then. Now that the game, who's features and lack thereof have been known all along, is close to release all you're doing is piling on. It doesn't sound like David is much more than a guy who has spent a long time trying to make a game he wanted to make, it may suck, but really, why do you have to be so vicious at this point?

And yeah, I know i'm gonna get flamed. And I also find alot of it amusing, but lets try and not be bullies.

Fair enough. I've got a couple of questions for you though.

a) Are you going to buy the game

and most important

b) HOW ARE YOU GOING TO PLAY THE GAME? (sorry for the caps, but I seriously want to know what audience this game is going to cater to). How is this game going to be better than anything else out there? You can coach in Madden. You can coach in Action PC! or FBPRO. Am I missing something here?

[Ben E Lou]

who's features and lack thereof have been known all alongWrong. I dismissed this game a long time ago because of lack of career play. Only recently did I become aware that career play was being added, but since it had taken so long, I never checked the feature list. I recently did, and I was stunned.

[Bee]

Wrong. I dismissed this game a long time ago because of lack of career play. Only recently did I become aware that career play was being added, but since it had taken so long, I never checked the feature list. I recently did, and I was stunned.

Same for me. I also dismissed it because I didn't think it was ever coming out. I still don't know if it will, but since it appears there's a chance this game may actually be released, I started looking into the career play. Boggles the mind that what's being released is being called "career play".

[Ben E Lou]

Boggles the mind that what's being released is being called "career play".Yup.

[Coffee Warlord]

Somebody HAS to buy this, just so they can report on the hilarity.

[Ben E Lou]

Somebody HAS to buy this, just so they can report on the hilarity.It may not be horrible at what it does. The issue is what it doesn't do.

[Desmond]

Wrong. I dismissed this game a long time ago because of lack of career play. Only recently did I become aware that career play was being added, but since it had taken so long, I never checked the feature list. I recently did, and I was stunned.

Fair enough. But you decided not to pay attention to it. At this point all you're doing is kicking a dead horse.

I realize that all you're doing is trying to get him to realize his game could have alot more mass appeal but does it honestly seem like that dream will ever be realized? :)

[Ben E Lou]

Fair enough. But you decided not to pay attention to it. At this point all you're doing is kicking a dead horse.

I realize that all you're doing is trying to get him to realize his game could have alot more mass appeal but does it honestly seem like that dream will ever be realized? :)Well, I guess not. I'm also quite sure I'm reacting out of just pure shock, too. When I read the stuff that this guy is posting, it is reminsicent of the moment when I read the words "I will not accept a banning.":

"No, it doesn't say that. That CAN'T be what he wrote. Wait, let me go back and read that again. I must have misread it. {Pause} Wow. He really said that. OK, Let me read further and see where the punch line is....."

[Coffee Warlord]

It may not be horrible at what it does. The issue is what it doesn't do.

I'd put serious money on a total and complete debacle. The half-assed way of implementing things and the sheer Daikatana-esque delays scream epic flop to me.

[JeeberD]

Yeesh...you gotta give a guy a warning that he's gonna run into druez over there.

[cthomer5000]

Depending on the price, I'll consider buying this game. It's got to be worth the laughs, right?

[twothree]

Yeesh...you gotta give a guy a warning that he's gonna run into druez over there.

It is time to restore the QOTM.

Yes, bring back the QOTM. :D

[Bee]

It may not be horrible at what it does. The issue is what it doesn't do.

And from what I've read, there's a lot it doesn't do...:D

[theclassic]

If this game is $20-25 dollars I'll buy it. I have always wanted to setup a football game for high school football. With the rules being flexible, as well as the number of the teams, this might be the best way to go about it. Needless to say though, if it's anything over the previous mentioned price I'll forget it.

Some of the post that designer has written are awfully confusing, and he himself sounds confused when writing them. For example.

Aa I mentioned, there are no contracts to deal with. There is no AI for salaries. teams can't keep players forever because they leave the team for various reasons. Only eligible free agents can be brought back to play. Players that are retired, injuried, or other wise not eligible, are not able to be kept.

Actually you could go and bring back a retired player for one year, but that's the limit.

Am I the only one who is just outwardly confused about this? You can bring back a retired player, but only for a year. Alright Jim Brown, how well can you run for the Browns again! It's only one year, per game rules. How far back are players going to be unretired? Some of the post on the draft were just as confusing. Free agents could be drafted again for example. To the best of my knowledge, and without reading a lot of the post within the thread posted at their forums, this means that career player, is basically just a re-drafting of the league every year. I hope I am wrong on that.

This game has potential. I have never really been into the whole financial part of football sims, so the fact that there won't be one isn't a total deal breaker for me. But in replace you must have a decent system of a college draft, and a smart trading AI. Something I think this game will probably lack.

I'm just holding my breathe that this game can simulate high school football with a few user created mods.

[dervack]

Oh man. The game will have weather events, but it won't effect the gameplay. If it won't effect the game play, does it really matter?

[yabanci]

One thing that appeals to me with Maximum Football is the ability to simulate pee wee leagues. I can't wait to see the state of the art graphical representations of pee wees. This is something the independent developers with their spreadsheets and dialog boxes can only dream about.

http://www.leaguelineup.com/middletownpeewee/photos/buckeyk2_PEEWEEDAY9.jpg

[dervack]

One thing that appeals to me with Maximum Football is the ability to simulate pee wee leagues. I can't wait to see the state of the art graphical representations of pee wees. This is something the independent developers with their spreadsheets and dialog boxes can only dream about.

http://www.leaguelineup.com/middletownpeewee/photos/buckeyk2_PEEWEEDAY9.jpg
Hey, that's an illegal formation. I hope Maximum Football will penalize them for that.

[Dutch]

To go along with pee-wee football, I hope you can recreate Jack in the Box's son for that league.

http://www.anatomorphex.com/picts/hero_props/HP010_PRINT.jpg

[sabotai]

We need to stop wasting our time with trading, drafting, recruiting and financial AI and do more important things like making sure you can have 9 chances for your lego people to make a first down.
But....but...AI is so simple, it doesn't factor into how complex a game is! How much time could you really spend on something that's easy!?

I think all of the text sim people are jerking us around with all of this AI crap and really dropping the ball on the big feet issue. We've gone so long without big feet and it's time for a change!