FOFC Draft: The Four Sport Challenge - Best Athletes in History

[Karlifornia]

I'm really waiting to see if one player gets picked at all.

[Sublime 2]

I've been waiting for someone to go too....I'm sure they will but it'll be interesting.

[Schmidty]

I'm really waiting to see if one player gets picked at all.

Richard Simmons - Wildcard

[Karlifornia]

lol Schmidty.


Seriously, though..I just thought of another athlete that may or may not go, but could also have gone in the first round

[Raiders Army]

I'm waiting on Herd right now. I've got my two picks ready.

[ISiddiqui]

With the 9th pick in the fourth round, Team Taz selects

Roger Clemens, baseballGREAT pick that late in the 4th... though there is one baseball player that I'm SHOCKED no one has picked yet.

And how in the world did Nolan Ryan get picked ahead of Ted Williams?! http://www.operationsports.com/fofc/images/smilies/eek.gif

[oykib]

Clemens and White are great picks.

But what's up with the speed of picks?

[Raiders Army]

I have three guys in mind right now. Unfortunately I'm pretty tired at this point and I'm going to bed soon. I'll be up bright and early if Herd makes his pick tonight sometime.

[DaddyTorgo]

That's what I ment when I said Lance Armstrong is clearly not the best ever.
There are a few more who can be claimed to be better all-time than Armstrong, but it's widely unaccepted to even question whether Eddy Merckx was the best ever.

I hope I didn't trigger that one though.nope. well not really. more like the pick of armstrong made me go "Hmmm isn't there someone who's a better biker than Armstong?" And so I googled it cuz I couldn't remember his name.

[ThunderingHERD]

Ok, with the 11th pick of the 4th round, I'll take:
<b>Stan Musial</b>
giving me the two greatest hitters of all time not named Babe Ruth.

[ThunderingHERD]

Yeah, you're right.

Lifetime .325 average, .978 fielding %, 3 time MVP, 13 time allstar, hit 361 HRs while only striking out 369 times in his career.

Oh, yeah, some 56 game hitting streak.

Overrated?

Hardly.

He was a great player who deserves no mention when talking about the greatest players ever. The hitting streak (even if it weren't illegitimately extended by generous scorers) is the quintessential meaningless vanity record--fitting that it's held by the quintessential overrated vanity player.

edit: also, 2 of his MVPs were complete jokes:

41 Dimaggio .357 .440 30hr 1.083
41 Williams .406 .553 37hr 1.287

47 Dimaggio .315 .391 20hr .913
47 Williams .343 .499 32hr 1.113

[Schmidty]

Ok, with the 11th pick of the 4th round, I'll take:
<b>Stan Musial</b>
giving me the two greatest hitters of all time not named Babe Ruth.

Ty Cobb is better than both IMO. Especially considering the fact that he played in the dead-ball era.

[ThunderingHERD]

Ty Cobb is better than both IMO. Especially considering the fact that he played in the dead-ball era.


You're missing one crucial point: Ty Cobb is not on my team. :)

edit: but I certainly wouldn't say Cobb was better than Williams.

[Schmidty]

edit: but I certainly wouldn't say Cobb was better than Williams.

I have to be honest - I debated that for like a half an hour. I decided on Cobb because of his abilities, lifetime average, and his longevity. I also feel he would have been the best player ever if he had played in the past 50 years....if he hadn't been banned for being a racist turd. :)

The case can be made for both though. I definitely would take both over Ruth.

[oykib]

Ty Cobb is better than both IMO. Especially considering the fact that he played in the dead-ball era.

Ty Cobb's not the only one...

There are a few guys that were better hitters than Musial still on the board.

[DaddyTorgo]

i have deliberately held off on baseball so far, because I feel that there are more "great" baseball players out there than in any other sport, with football a close second. musial isn't a bad pick, but it's too early for him IMO.

[ThunderingHERD]

Ty Cobb's not the only one...

There are a few guys that were better hitters than Musial dtill on the board.

There's one guy that's a better hitter--I believe he was being discussed without being discussed earlier. There's another guy out there that's a bigger name, and probably a better pick, but I would disagree that he was a better hitter.

[Schmidty]

i have deliberately held off on baseball so far, because I feel that there are more "great" baseball players out there than in any other sport, with football a close second. musial isn't a bad pick, but it's too early for him IMO.

I agree, but I couldn't turn down Cobb. He should be good for some votes.

[DaddyTorgo]

I agree, but I couldn't turn down Cobb. He should be good for some votes.i'd agree. he was one of the top 2/3 baseball guys I had my eye on. Fortunately the other two are both still out there.

[Karlifornia]

Two of the most controversial athletes of all time are still on the board. Both are in the same sport, and both have statistics that would put them 1st-5th all time in their sport. However, I understand the hesitation that comes with picking them, as you would possibly lose some votes by picking them.

[Raiders Army]

4.12: Pete Sampras-Other

Arguably the best tennis player ever. 286 weeks at #1. 6 time ATP player of the year. 64 singles titles. 14 Grand Slam titles.

5.1: Ronnie Lott-Football

The most feared defensive player in the secondary. Ballhawk. Four Superbowls. 10 time Pro Bowler.


I was going to wait on Sampras since it seemed as if others had already picked their "Other" category, but didn't want the few left picking him. I would've gone for LT, but since he was taken, I took Lott instead.

[kcchief19]

Sampras is a very nice pick. I would certainly argue that he is the best tennis player ever. Others have had better runs over short periods of time, but I don't think any male tennis player had the sustained excellence that Sampras had.

[Raiders Army]

Thanks. Since it's another 23 picks until I pick again I had to get him now.

Sort of same thing with Lott. I really wanted LT and thought about picking him instead of Nolan Ryan, but decided to wait. When LT came off the board, I didn't want Lott to come off either.

[kcchief19]

He was a great player who deserves no mention when talking about the greatest players ever. The hitting streak (even if it weren't illegitimately extended by generous scorers) is the quintessential meaningless vanity record--fitting that it's held by the quintessential overrated vanity player.

edit: also, 2 of his MVPs were complete jokes:

41 Dimaggio .357 .440 30hr 1.083
41 Williams .406 .553 37hr 1.287

47 Dimaggio .315 .391 20hr .913
47 Williams .343 .499 32hr 1.113You left out one bit of critical information.



41 NewYorkY (http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/NYY/1941.shtml) NYY 101 53 .656 --
41 BostonRS (http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/BOS/1941.shtml) BOS 84 70 .545 17.0

41 NewYorkY (http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/NYY/1947.shtml) NYY 97 57 .630 --
41 Detroit (http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/DET/1947.shtml) DET 85 69 .552 12.0
41 BostonRS (http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/BOS/1947.shtml) BOS 83 71 .539 14.0

I'll agree that Ted Williams was the superior hitter. I love Ted Williams. Personally I like him better than DiMaggio. But Joltin' Joe was the heart and soul of the Yankees while they won year in and year out and Williams never got a ring. That wins you MVP Awards and makes you beloved. It's hard to argue that DiMaggio wasn't a great player because all he did was win.

[MIJB#19]

Sampras' only downer has been his inability to win matches on the claycourts of Roland Garros. Although, compared to the rest of the tennis players in his era, only few others were able to win on all surfaces, let alone win a lot on all surfaces. Good value pick at 4.12/5.01 though, concidering other non-big4 sports greats went in the first and second round.

[Raiders Army]

Two of the most controversial athletes of all time are still on the board. Both are in the same sport, and both have statistics that would put them 1st-5th all time in their sport. However, I understand the hesitation that comes with picking them, as you would possibly lose some votes by picking them.
If who you're thinking of is who I'm thinking of, I agree with what you're thinking.

[oykib]

If who you're thinking of is who I'm thinking of, I agree with what you're thinking.

But it's hard to argue with taking him in the sixth or seventh round, which is where he'll likely go.

[oykib]

You left out one bit of critical information.



41 NewYorkY (http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/NYY/1941.shtml) NYY 101 53 .656 --
41 BostonRS (http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/BOS/1941.shtml) BOS 84 70 .545 17.0

41 NewYorkY (http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/NYY/1947.shtml) NYY 97 57 .630 --
41 Detroit (http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/DET/1947.shtml) DET 85 69 .552 12.0
41 BostonRS (http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/BOS/1947.shtml) BOS 83 71 .539 14.0

I'll agree that Ted Williams was the superior hitter. I love Ted Williams. Personally I like him better than DiMaggio. But Joltin' Joe was the heart and soul of the Yankees while they won year in and year out and Williams never got a ring. That wins you MVP Awards and makes you beloved. It's hard to argue that DiMaggio wasn't a great player because all he did was win.

Well, there's another critical bit of info that was left out. DiMaggio was a gold glove centerfielder. One of the greats as a matter of fact. Williams was a significantly superior hitter. But Joltin' Joe was the greater all-around athlete. He was a classic five-tool player.

[ISiddiqui]

Ty Cobb's not the only one...

There are a few guys that were better hitters than Musial still on the board.
Yeah, the guy I'm shocked hasn't been picked yet is one of them. And here's the kicker... he's not "controversial". At least not in the way I'm thinking people are saying "controversial" in baseball terms.

[Raiders Army]

But it's hard to argue with taking him in the sixth or seventh round, which is where he'll likely go.
I don't think I would take him unless the good heavily outweighs the bad, but somebody will probably take him.

[General Mike]

grumble grumble grumble

[oykib]

Yeah, the guy I'm shocked hasn't been picked yet is one of them. And here's the kicker... he's not "controversial". At least not in the way I'm thinking people are saying "controversial" in baseball terms.

There are actually a few of those guys.

The most valuable baseball card there is of one of the guys still left. That's probably the guy you mean. But there are others.

[ISiddiqui]

There are actually a few of those guys.

The most valuable baseball card there is of one of the guys still left. That's probably the guy you mean. But there are others.
No, it's not that guy... but he's a good one as well. I want to see how far he drops and then laugh at the losers who didn't take him ;).

[oykib]

No, it's not that guy... but he's a good one as well. I want to see how far he drops and then laugh at the losers who didn't take him ;).

I think a good game would be to try to put together a team of undrafted guys and see where they would place with these teams. The way it's going, I think I could probably come up with a middle of the pack team of undrafted guys.

[Schmidty]

Careful with your hints guys. If they're obvious to me (which they), then I think these can definitely figure it out. :)

[ISiddiqui]

I didn't drop any hints ;).

[General Mike]

you people need to shut your mouths before I take my belt off.

[ISiddiqui]

But then your pants will fall down.

[Maple Leafs]

But then your pants will fall down.
Is that some sort of hint about drafting David Cone?

[ISiddiqui]

Is that some sort of hint about drafting David Cone?
I thought I was hinting at John Kruk ;).

[General Mike]

Is that some sort of hint about drafting David Cone?

Yes. Where is ThunderingHERD?

[TazFTW]

He posted in the drunk guy thread.

I'm guessing hangover land.

[Raiders Army]

So....

[DaddyTorgo]

rarrrr....make your picks people. dammit!

[oykib]

Speculation will run wild until people start making picks.

I think Brandi Chastain's sports bra is going to be the next pick.

[vex]

Jeez, being away all evening I was sure people would be waiting on me...

[DaddyTorgo]

i'm starting to get bored between picks.

[Maple Leafs]

How about we all relieve the boredom by submitting some advance picks to Schmidty so that this doesn't happen again?

[DaddyTorgo]

i find it virtually impossible to do advance picks though. because you never know who someone else is going to pick. If I was to list everyone that I might pick, the list would likely start with some people who would be gone by the time it got back around to me too.

[Maple Leafs]

True, but it can't hurt. Now that we're out of the early rounds you'll be surprised how little overlap there is. If everyone just sent a top three, I bet we could start moving pretty quickly.

[DaddyTorgo]

i suppose you're right

[Schmidty]

How about we all relieve the boredom by submitting some advance picks to Schmidty so that this doesn't happen again?

I asked before, but I didn't want to look like a dictator. ;)

[Schmidty]

True, but it can't hurt. Now that we're out of the early rounds you'll be surprised how little overlap there is. If everyone just sent a top three, I bet we could start moving pretty quickly.

There seem to be some observers that are more active than our participants. Maybe we can send picks to one of them (if they agree) to get things moving.

Of course, there comes a point when people should be replaced....

[DaddyTorgo]

if an observer posts that they will accept picks, I will see what I can do to work up a list of my picks although I don't think I've ever left the draft hanging at all.

[ISiddiqui]

You know he's going to take Al Del Greco, so just get on with it.

[oykib]

YOu could have each guy post "{next guy} is on the clock." after each pick. That gives a clear time since every post is time-stamped. Give people an eight-hour time limit or something and just start letting people after them draft if they miss it until they get back in.

[Schmidty]

YOu could have each guy post "{next guy} is on the clock." after each pick. That gives a clear time since every post is time-stamped. Give people an eight-hour time limit or something and just start letting people after them draft if they miss it until they get back in.

Or you could volunteer to take people's picks.....

:)

[DaddyTorgo]

alright. well i'm going to be off to bed shortly here, and then i'm off to work until ~ 6pm EST tomorrow. I don't anticipate that it will be my pick even then, but just in case it is, know that I will be home to do them (barring some idiotic circumstances that force me to stay at work...which would still mean i'd be home by 10pm EST).

[ThunderingHERD]

Sorry, I had to work 'til midnight. You guys should get on a reasonable schedule. :)

Anyway, I'll take <b>Dick Butkus</b>.

[DaddyTorgo]

rargle. there's one of my NFL picks off the board. *grumble*

[Karlifornia]

butkus...interesting. I didn't even think about him. Nice pick.

[oykib]

Sorry, I had to work 'til midnight. You guys should get on a reasonable schedule. :)

Anyway, I'll take <b>Dick Butkus</b>.

That's one of the guys I was talking about earlier during my RB review. Although he's not in any of the position groups I mentioned, He's more a top one or two guy than any RB that's left.

[General Mike]

I guess it's time for me to take my other sport guy. I'll go with one of the greatest heavyweight boxers of all time, if not the greatest.

Rocky Marciano, other.

[oykib]

I guess it's time for me to take my other sport guy. I'll go with one of the greatest heavyweight boxers of all time, if not the greatest.

Rocky Marciano, other.

Cue Eddie Murphy quote from "Coming to America."

[General Mike]

Cue Eddie Murphy quote from "Coming to America."

:confused:

[kcchief19]

Oh there they go. There they go, every time I start talkin 'bout boxing, a white man got to pull Rocky Marciano out their ass. That's their one, that's their one. Rocky Marciano. Rocky Marciano. Let me tell you something once and for all. Rocky Marciano was good, but compared to Joe Louis, Rocky Marciano ain't shit.

[Raiders Army]

Oh there they go. There they go, every time I start talkin 'bout boxing, a white man got to pull Rocky Marciano out their ass. That's their one, that's their one. Rocky Marciano. Rocky Marciano. Let me tell you something once and for all. Rocky Marciano was good, but compared to Joe Louis, Rocky Marciano ain't shit.
This is coming from a guy who has all white dudes on his team? :D

[TazFTW]

Damn the torpedoes. Full spead ahead.

With the fourth pick in the fifth round, Team Taz selects

Barry Bonds, Baseball

[Maple Leafs]

5.5 Mickey Mantle, baseball.

Schmidty is up.

[Schmidty]

Pete Rose

All time hits leader, one ahead of my first baseball pick - Cobb

[Maple Leafs]

kcchief sent his pick. He takes Whoopi Goldberg.

Woops, wrong PM. Hold on...

kcchief takes Julius Erving, basketball

[ISiddiqui]

5.5 Mickey Mantle, baseball.

Schmidty is up.
That's the one... it took THAT long for Mantle to get picked?! Wow! Maple Leafs, you are getting an absolute STEAL in the 5th round. I'd easily have taken him over Nolan Ryan or Joe Dimaggio.

[vex]

5.8 - Sammy Baugh - Football

He still holds the NFL punting record for highest average in a career (45.1 yards) and has the best (51.4 in 1940) and third best (48.7 in 1941) season marks. He was the first NFL player to intercept four passes in a game, a record he shares today. And he is the only player to lead the league in passing, punting and interceptions in the same season.

Baugh was among the 17 charter members to the Pro Football Hall of Fame in 1963. He also was elected to the College Football Hall of Fame.

[Travis]

5.9 - Jerry West - Basketball

25,192 points scored (27.0 career average)
6,238 assists
League First Team All Star 10 times
All Defensive Team 4 times
14 All Star Games
1972 League MVP
Playoff MVP in 69 (even though they didn't win)
Helped his team to 9 finals appearances in 14 seasons
29.1 playoff ppg average

[vtbub]

<b>Maurice Richard</b>- Hockey

[Travis]

<b>Maurice Richard</b>- Hockey

Huh, so much for him falling to my next pick. Had a hard time choosing between him and somebody (ANYBODY!) in basketball seeing as how that's my weakest area of knowledge and the bar seemed to be falling at an alarming rate.

Nice pick!

[DaddyTorgo]

some great steals coming off the board in this round, but I've still got my original two picks that I had in mind going in so I'm pleased. I'm ready to post whenever my turn next rolls around.

although losing Sammy Baugh as one of my NFL options does hurt.

edit: thanks kcchief for taking Dr. J. I was wavering between him and someone else in this round and that just makes my decision simpler.

[DeToxRox]

5.11 - Cue the lame posts, or nerds, but for my wildcard I select Your Olympic Hero Kurt Angle.

The guy is an Olympic Gold Medal Wrestler, and one of the best "wrestlers" in WWF history.

More of a pick from the heart, but I love the guy.

so ..

5.11 - Kurt Angle (Wildcard)

[Raiders Army]

Uhhhhh...I like him, but not that much. I voted for you in the Comedy Draft!!!

[Travis]

some great steals coming off the board in this round, but I've still got my original two picks that I had in mind going in so I'm pleased. I'm ready to post whenever my turn next rolls around.

although losing Sammy Baugh as one of my NFL options does hurt.

edit: thanks kcchief for taking Dr. J. I was wavering between him and someone else in this round and that just makes my decision simpler.

Heh, glad you're happy about it, I went in hoping to nab Dr. J and Richard with my 5th and 6th picks. That certainly didn't work out quite the way I had hoped.

Ah well, contingency plans are never a bad thing.

[Raiders Army]

5.11 - Cue the lame posts, or nerds, but for my wildcard I select Your Olympic Hero Kurt Angle.

The guy is an Olympic Gold Medal Wrestler, and one of the best "wrestlers" in WWF history.

More of a pick from the heart, but I love the guy.

so ..

5.11 - Kurt Angle (Wildcard)
I also believed he defeated a tag team of midgets.

[DaddyTorgo]

i'm doing this as two seperate picks because I'm sure of the first but still debating the second.

5 (12) John Havlicek - Basketball


edit: fixed the fact that I picked an already drafted player cuz I was being smart.

[ISiddiqui]

Magic was a 3rd round pick.

[DaddyTorgo]

hah. i thought i couldnt' be that lucky. sorry i didn't look quicker. i'll go back to my original (that was off the board for me anyways)

[DaddyTorgo]

okay. after much debate, and going off my personal board again to make sure I snag this guy

6 (1) Denton "Cy" Young - Baseball

one man whose record will NEVER be beaten. The dominant pitcher not just of one decade, but TWO decades. And they named the damm award that all the other pitchers compete to win after HIM.

[DeToxRox]

6.2 - LeBron James (Basketball)

New kid .. But what he's already done for the game is incredible.

[oykib]

Wow... I'm suprised some of these guys (James, Angle, Rose) got picked at all-- let alone in the fifth and sixth rounds.

Rose, at least is an all-time great. But there are a good thirty or forty guys that are on a level beyond him that haven't been picked yet.

[Schmidty]

Rose, at least is an all-time great. But there are a good thirty or forty guys that are on a level beyond him that haven't been picked yet.

I would dispute that strongly. He was a champion, and his statistics (especially hits) don't lie.

[ISiddiqui]

I would dispute that strongly. He was a champion, and his statistics (especially hits) don't lie.Neither does his OPS+ ;)

[Schmidty]

Neither does his OPS+ ;)

OPS= Over-rated Poopy Stat. ;)

Seriosly, one stat (OPS) can't be used to judge a person's impact, and think most people would agree that Rose's impact was huge.

[oykib]

I would dispute that strongly. He was a champion, and his statistics (especially hits) don't lie.

He was, indeed, a champion. But there are, literally, thousands of champions in the history of pro baseball. You only select two baseball players. Looking at Rose's championship team, there were two better players.

As I admitted earlier, Rose was a great player. But you still flubbed that pick.

[Schmidty]

He was, indeed, a champion. But there are, literally, thousands of champions in the history of pro baseball. You only select two baseball players. Looking at Rose's championship team, there were two better players.

As I admitted earlier, Rose was a great player. But you still flubbed that pick.

You're kind of irritating and abrasive. :)

I hope you play in one of these drafts so I can pick you apart too.

[Grammaticus]

OPS= Over-rated Poopy Stat. ;)

Seriosly, one stat (OPS) can't be used to judge a person's impact, and think most people would agree that Rose's impact was huge.
Rose is Da Bomb! The common man's hero. Hell yeah he belongs!

[oykib]

Dola--

Although not nearly as bad as the Bo Jackson, Lebron James, or Kurt Angle picks.

It's about on the same level as the Nolan Ryan pick.

[Schmidty]

By the way, oykib: You're only irritating and abrasive when you criticize my picks. :D

[oykib]

You're kind of irritating and abrasive. :)

I hope you play in one of these drafts so I can pick you apart too.

I would have been a part of this draft. But there's a fourteen hour time difference between Japan and EST. So it had filled up by the time I noticed it.

You can retroactively go back and make fun of the Baseball Auction or the Movie Star draft from a few years back if you want to laugh at my picks.

[Schmidty]

You can retroactively go back and make fun of the Baseball Auction or the Movie Star draft from a few years back if you want to laugh at my picks.

I'm there, dude.

[Maple Leafs]

I believe Detox is up, with pick 6.2, correct?

By the way, just a reminder that vtbub has my pick for this round.

[TazFTW]

I believe Detox is up, with pick 6.2, correct?

By the way, just a reminder that vtbub has my pick for this round.
Detox selected Lebron in post 336 (it wasn't bolded).

[Maple Leafs]

Ah... OK. So bub is up?

[vtbub]

gimmie a few

[vtbub]

<b>Sandy Koufax</b>-Baseball

[Travis]

4.4 - Vladislav Tretiak - Hockey

My personal choice as top goalie in hockey history. His 1.78 GAA in 98 international games against the best in the world is simply an astounding statistic.

Led the Soviet team to golds in the 72, 76 and 84 Olympics.
Won 10 World Championships and 9 European Titles.

Quote from Hockey Legends (http://www.legendsofhockey.net:8080/LegendsOfHockey/jsp/LegendsMember.jsp?mem=P198903 )

"From 1971 to 1984, he was the Soviet league's First Team All-Star goalie, spending 14 consecutive seasons as the number one man in the Soviet cage. During this amazing string with the Central Red Army squad, Tretiak won 13 league titles, captured the MVP honors in the Soviet league five times, was awarded the Order of Lenin for his service to the USSR in 1978 and won the coveted Golden Hockey Stick as the outstanding player in all of Europe in 1981, 1982 and 1983. In the 1981 Canada Cup, he was the tournament MVP and the First All-Star Team goalie, posting an amazing 1.33 goal-against average over six games against the world's best teams."

[DaddyTorgo]

tretiak?? niiiice....niiiiice pick

[Maple Leafs]

Tretiak is a very interesting pick. He's certainly a great pick for this sort of draft -- he's a good value, and will get you some votes for the cleverness factor alone.

That said, there's also plenty of debate about him. Many fans are convinced he was the best ever, but many so-called experts don't see it that way. Guy who played against him (notably Bobby Clarke) have said he was vastly over-rated, and the Hockey News recently argued that he would have been only an average NHL goaltender.

[vex]

Whoa, sorry, didn't realize it was my turn.

[vex]

6.5 - Isiah Thomas - Basketball

[Travis]

Tretiak is a very interesting pick. He's certainly a great pick for this sort of draft -- he's a good value, and will get you some votes for the cleverness factor alone.

That said, there's also plenty of debate about him. Many fans are convinced he was the best ever, but many so-called experts don't see it that way. Guy who played against him (notably Bobby Clarke) have said he was vastly over-rated, and the Hockey News recently argued that he would have been only an average NHL goaltender.

I think it's hard for a lot of experts to a) let go of their intial opinion of Tretiak (when they all thought he was going to be the weak link on that squad) and to b) even consider that somebody who didn't play in the NHL should ever be considered one of the top 3 or 5 goalies of all time.

It's hard to really figure where he would have fit in as a full time goalie int he NHL, but I find it nearly impossible to believe that he would have been "average". Brodeur is/was widely considered Canada's best goalie (if not the current best goalie in the world) while playing internationally for us and behind a very solid defensive team in NJ. His numbers have taken a bit of a hit this year with all the talent that team lost (though he is having a great January), but there is still no doubt that he's going to start for Canada come the Olympics.

With Tretiak, even if you want to throw out the stats he accumulated playing in leagues, it's almost impossible to really back up any theory of his being a great goalie when he faced the finest players other teams/countries could throw at him.

I can definitely see a debate amongst the top 3 or 5 goalies of all time, but I just couldn't understand if this guy wasn't included in it.

As far as Bobby Clarke goes, well, this wouldn't be his first opinion on something that I've had a slightly different view on ;)

[Schmidty]

6.5 - Isiah Thomas - Basketball

DAMNIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :mad:

[Maple Leafs]

With Tretiak, even if you want to throw out the stats he accumulated playing in leagues, it's almost impossible to really back up any theory of his being a great goalie when he faced the finest players other teams/countries could throw at him.
I guess the counter argument to that would be that he was also playing behind some of the greatest defensive teams of all time -- and those teams played together full-time, unlike the Canadian squads that were thrown together.

I never got to see him play, so I can't really say. I know he didn't play well at all during the crucial final games of the 1972 Summit Series, which were probably the biggest of his career. That said, if we were just going by that then Paul Henderson would be a first round pick in this draft.

And yes, both I and recent history will agree, Bobby Clarke isn't exactly an expert when it comes to juding goaltender talent.

[General Mike]

This draft will NEVER~! end.

[Schmidty]

This draft will NEVER~! end.

If people would fucking send in their fucking picks, it fucking would.

[kcchief19]

Sorry for the delay ... I would e-mailed a list, but the last time I was near the comuter with more than two seconds to consider this I was too far away in the draft to make a decision.

Since there are still some good choices in some of the other sports, I'm going to go for my final hockey guy - Terry Sawchuck.

Us old school guys will tell you that he was the best goalie of all time. Patrick Roy put up the glossy win totals thanks to the benefit of better teams, but their goals against averages were comparable, but Sawchuck recorded an amazing 103 shutouts -- nearly 1/4 of his wins were shutouts. He was also a tragic story. He battled depression throughout his life and died as a result of injuries from a drunken fight with a teammate just after finishing his 21st season in the league. The Hall of Fame waived its eligibility period and inducted him in 1971.

He was also amazingly tough; he played more than half his career without a mask and had more than 400 stitches to his face over his career.

[vex]

He was also amazingly tough; he played more than half his career without a mask and had more than 400 stitches to his face over his career.
Amazingly stupid, more like it.

[Schmidty]

Sorry for the delay ... I would e-mailed a list, but the last time I was near the comuter with more than two seconds to consider this I was too far away in the draft to make a decision.

Since there are still some good choices in some of the other sports, I'm going to go for my final hockey guy - Terry Sawchuck.

Us old school guys will tell you that he was the best goalie of all time. Patrick Roy put up the glossy win totals thanks to the benefit of better teams, but their goals against averages were comparable, but Sawchuck recorded an amazing 103 shutouts -- nearly 1/4 of his wins were shutouts. He was also a tragic story. He battled depression throughout his life and died as a result of injuries from a drunken fight with a teammate just after finishing his 21st season in the league. The Hall of Fame waived its eligibility period and inducted him in 1971.

He was also amazingly tough; he played more than half his career without a mask and had more than 400 stitches to his face over his career.

DAMNIT, YOU TURDS, STOP TAKING DETROIT HOFers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Maple Leafs]

I will cast another vote for Sawchuck as the top goalie of all time.

[Schmidty]

I will cast another vote for Sawchuck as the top goalie of all time.

I've wanted to take him a long time. I suck at these drafts. :(

[vtbub]

whose up

[Maple Leafs]

I think Schmidty is.

Hopefully he sent himself a pick.

[Schmidty]

This is a pick where I don't give a shit if I get criticized. He's my favorite hockey player, one of the best players of his time, and the greatest captain ever (if you disagreem you're wrong):

Steve Yzerman - Hockey

[Maple Leafs]

vtbub is up... he has my sixth round pick.

[Schmidty]

vtbub is up... he has my sixth round pick.

No one ever says shit about my picks......except for okyibjib. :mad:

[oykib]

No one ever says shit about my picks......except for okyibjib. :mad:

Hockey's my weakest area among the big four. So I can't really dispute your pick.

[vtbub]

<b>Mike Singletary</b>-Football

[General Mike]

whos up now?

[vex]

whos up now?
Taz is, I think.

IMO, picks shouldn't be traded, just makes things too difficult to follow.

[Maple Leafs]

IMO, picks shouldn't be traded, just makes things too difficult to follow.
Me saying "bub has my pick", followed by bub making a pick, is really too difficult to follow?

[TazFTW]

With the ninth pick in the sixth round, Team Taz selects

Shaquille O'neal, basketball

[Sublime 2]

I'm a little surprised he lasted this late.

[DaddyTorgo]

i'm not surprised shaq lasted this long. i don't think if you look at any of the bball players taken before him you'd take shaq over any of them.

[General Mike]

With the 10th pick in the 6th round, and I can't believe he's lasted this long, the General Mike All-Stars select "The Flying Dutchman" Honus Wagner, baseball

[Maple Leafs]

Solid pick.

[oykib]

With the 10th pick in the 6th round, and I can't believe he's lasted this long, the General Mike All-Stars select "The Flying Dutchman" Honus Wagner, baseball

Finally.

[DaddyTorgo]

great pick! i was wondering if he was going to end up lasting until my next pick at this point! i'm surprised he's lasted too, but I suppose that's a function of the bias towards players of "this era"

[ThunderingHERD]

With the 11th pick in the 6th round, I am thrilled to select the greatest boxer of all time: <b>Sugar Ray Robinson</b>.

[Schmidty]

General Mike has a really, really good team.

[Schmidty]

With the 11th pick in the 6th round, I am thrilled to select the greatest boxer of all time

Joe Louis has already been drafted. :D

[General Mike]

General Mike has a really, really good team.

It will be even better after my next pick.

[Schmidty]

Via draft list, Raiders Army selects:

6.12 Doug Harvey - Hockey

7.1 Jaromir Jagr - Hockey

[ThunderingHERD]

Ok, with 7.2 I'll take <b>George Mikan</b>.

[oykib]

With the 11th pick in the 6th round, I am thrilled to select the greatest boxer of all time: <b>Sugar Ray Robinson</b>.

Another great pick.

[General Mike]

7.3 Deacon Jones, football

[oykib]

That's it. General Mike oficially has the best team to this point in the draft.

[Schmidty]

That's it. General Mike oficially has the best team to this point in the draft.

As I said above, I agree.

[Raiders Army]

Via draft list, Raiders Army selects:

6.12 Doug Harvey - Hockey

7.1 Jaromir Jagr - Hockey
Thanks. Had to get the hockey picks in there, since it seems as if they're going quickly.

[General Mike]

who is Doug Harvey?

[Raiders Army]

Doug Harvey is probably one of the best defensemen in Hockey. He won the James Norris Memorial Trophy seven times, the Stanley Cup six times, was inducted into the Hockey Hall of Fame in 1973, and was on a Canadian postage stamp in 2000.

[Maple Leafs]

Harvey was named the sixth best player in NHL history by the Hockey News a few years back.

[TazFTW]

Don't think I've seen his name yet, so with the fourth pick in the seventh round, Team Taz selects


Elgin Baylor, basketball

[Maple Leafs]

I'll take Jean Beliveau, hockey.

[Raiders Army]

Don't think I've seen his name yet, so with the fourth pick in the seventh round, Team Taz selects


Elgin Baylor, basketball
Interesting pick. Do you believe in curses?

[TazFTW]

Interesting pick. Do you believe in curses?
For a fantasy draft? No.

[Schmidty]

Rogers Hornsby - Wildcard

Second highest BA in history (behind my guy Cobb) and is widely considered to be one of the greatest baseball players ever.

[DaddyTorgo]

Rogers Hornsby - Wildcard

Second highest BA in history (behind my guy Cobb) and is widely considered to be one of the greatest baseball players ever.balls. there goes another great player

[kcchief19]

Can't believe he's still around:

Gale Sayers - football

[Schmidty]

Can't believe he's still around:

Gale Sayers - football

Nice pick.

[vex]

7.8 - Red Grange - Football

[kcchief19]

7.8 - Red Grange - FootballHe's been on my board for a long time now. I didn't want to run the risk of ending up with too many old geezers. But he's clearly one of the most influential football players of all time. He is really the one who helped moved professional football into the limelight. Before Grange, this was a college football country and nobody cared about pro football.

[Travis]

7.9 - Bob Cousy - Basketball

[vtbub]

<b>7.10 Walt Frazier-</b> Basketball

[Schmidty]

New rule: If I do not have a list from you, and you do not make your pick within 5 hours of the previous pick, I will auto-pick from this list: http://espn.go.com/sportscentury/athletes.html

The 5 hour rule (should be 4 hours, but I'm nice) will be in effect from 10 A.M. EST until 9 P.M. EST. If you miss 2 pick in a row, you will be replaced.

This draft has been very disappointing, because of how slow it's gone. There's no reason for this, since I've asked on multiple occasions for people to send their picks in.

Detox has until 6 P.M. EST to make his pick.

[Raiders Army]

I'm good with that rule.

Edit--especially when I see Detox posting a new thread about 15 minutes ago and he didn't make his pick here.

[Schmidty]

I'm good with that rule.

Edit--especially when I see Detox posting a new thread about 15 minutes ago and he didn't make his pick here.

Wow. That's not cool. I'm shortening his time. He now has until 4 p.m. EST.

[DaddyTorgo]

i think there might be hesitation of people to send their lists to you schmidty. if we had an non-participating person who was watching over the lists that would have made more sense from the beginning. Perhaps someone like Jeeber who is here constantly anyways

[Schmidty]

Detox started a new post, hung around the board for awhile, and even though this thread was at the top, he left the board. I am pissed. :mad:

DeToxRoxDVHStyle selects:

7.11 Mark Spitz (via ESPN list)

I am actively trying to replace Detox.

[Schmidty]

i think there might be hesitation of people to send their lists to you schmidty. if we had an non-participating person who was watching over the lists that would have made more sense from the beginning. Perhaps someone like Jeeber who is here constantly anyways

People have been sending in their lists to non-participants. Not only that, but if very close to your pick, there's no reason you can't send a short list to someone 7-8 + picks away from you. This draft has been ridiculous.

[DaddyTorgo]

well that's certainly true. it has been kinda...dragging the fuck on. alright so i'm up for two hmm? give me a couple minutes, i have a few people in mind

[Raiders Army]

i think there might be hesitation of people to send their lists to you schmidty. if we had an non-participating person who was watching over the lists that would have made more sense from the beginning. Perhaps someone like Jeeber who is here constantly anyways
That is true. Although I sent my list to Schmidty on Saturday, I was a little hesitant. The purpose of the list is to keep the draft going although you won't be on the board for a certain length of time. Because I pick two guys at once, I have to send at least three names...otherwise, it would be pointless to send a list to someone since you would be waiting anyhow if my list didn't cover the two picks. I tried to get okiyb to do it, but he's in a much different timezone. So, I sent my picks to Schmidty. As it is, he knows who my next pick will be if he's available.

That being said, I think that Schmidty did right by me in the beginning of the game when I didn't understand that it was an all-time draft instead of a current draft, so I think that he's pretty scrupulous. The problem is that it puts him in a bad position as well. If he picks my #3 pick I sent him even though he would've done so already, it would look like I gave him the idea...and that's not really fair to him either.

[Raiders Army]

Detox started a new post, hung around the board for awhile, and even though this thread was at the top, he left the board. I am pissed. :mad:

DeToxRoxDVHStyle selects:

7.11 Mark Spitz (via ESPN list)

I am actively trying to replace Detox.
Oh, and since you've taken control of Detox's team, I would like to submit the following trade to you:

Ronnie Lott for Lawrence Taylor and Jaromir Jagr for Bobby Orr. :D

[DaddyTorgo]

7.12 Steve Young - Football

8.1 Dan Marino - Football


i can't believe these two guys lasted this long.

[Raiders Army]

7.12 Steve Young - Football

8.1 Dan Marino - Football


i can't believe these two guys lasted this long.


Good picks. I might've gone with another guy over Dan in football, though...

[DaddyTorgo]

Good picks. I might've gone with another guy over Dan in football, though...Peyton Manning again??

LOL

Personally I'm not a Marino fan (actually I am a hater) but it's difficult to argue that he was one of the best passers of all time...and that he did it for years and years without a running game and without any HOF-caliber receivers.

and Steve Young...well he stands on his own. He was just amazing.

[MIJB#19]

Detox started a new post, hung around the board for awhile, and even though this thread was at the top, he left the board. I am pissed. :mad:

DeToxRoxDVHStyle selects:

7.11 Mark Spitz (via ESPN list)

I am actively trying to replace Detox.You should have given him Martina Navratilova. That'll teach him! :D

[Schmidty]

You should have given him Martina Navratilova. That'll teach him! :D

I came oh so close to doing just that. ;)

[Schmidty]

Ronnie Lott for Lawrence Taylor and Jaromir Jagr for Bobby Orr. :D

Sounds good to me. :D

[Karlifornia]

Schmidty gave me the go ahead to replace Detox, who is apparently MIA.....

With RFUS's first fill-in selection, he takes:

Rickey Henderson-Baseball

[Raiders Army]

Nice first pick/welcome to the draft!

Seriously, though...wanna trade Ronnie Lott and Jaromir Jagr for LT and Bobby Orr?

[Karlifornia]

In a word: NO! :)

[Maple Leafs]

I have bub's pick.

8.3 Arnold Palmer, wildcard

Travis is up.

[Sublime 2]

i like that pick

[Buccaneer]

So far, 10 of the 12 teams look really good, 2 of them suck.

[oykib]

Schmidty gave me the go ahead to replace Detox, who is apparently MIA.....

With RFUS's first fill-in selection, he takes:

Rickey Henderson-Baseball

Schmidty, this'll make you happy:

Rickey was a great player. But this pick is a bit of a reach. I can think of five baseball players off-hand that were better than Rickey and are still on the board.

[DaddyTorgo]

Schmidty, this'll make you happy:

Rickey was a great player. But this pick is a bit of a reach. I can think of five baseball players off-hand that were better than Rickey and are still on the board.doesn't that depend on your criterion? i don't think ricky is the best of the best, but then again how do you measure who is a "better" baseball player?? Who's to say if HR's are more important that OBP in the context of "best athlete"

not to be snitty oykib, but the tone of your posts really gets to me. different people have different opinions, yours isn't the only one out there

[Schmidty]

doesn't that depend on your criterion? i don't think ricky is the best of the best, but then again how do you measure who is a "better" baseball player?? Who's to say if HR's are more important that OBP in the context of "best athlete"

not to be snitty oykib, but the tone of your posts really gets to me. different people have different opinions, yours isn't the only one out there

Ditto all that.

[oykib]

doesn't that depend on your criterion? i don't think ricky is the best of the best, but then again how do you measure who is a "better" baseball player?? Who's to say if HR's are more important that OBP in the context of "best athlete"

not to be snitty oykib, but the tone of your posts really gets to me. different people have different opinions, yours isn't the only one out there

I think based on just about any top 100 list. Rickey's a great player and, had he been taken in a few rounds, a great pick. But since we can't post undrafted guys, I can't really make my point.

As a sidebar, Rickey was my favorite player growing up. I'm a Yankee fan and I remember literally doing flips when the trade with Oakland came through. He turned out to be better than I even expected at the time.

It's tough thing to say about the all-time Runs and steals leader, just like it was tough to say about the all-time hits leader, Rose. But it doesn't change the fact that both statements are true.

And, by the way, who said anything about homers?

[DaddyTorgo]

I think based on just about any top 100 list. Rickey's a great player and, had he been taken in a few rounds, a great pick. But since we can't post undrafted guys, I can't really make my point.

As a sidebar, Rickey was my favorite player growing up. I'm a Yankee fan and I remember literally doing flips when the trade with Oakland came through. He turned out to be better than I even expected at the time.

It's tough thing to say about the all-time Runs and steals leader, just like it was tough to say about the all-time hits leader, Rose. But it doesn't change the fact that both statements are true.

And, by the way, who said anything about homers?oh i was just picking a statistic at random (re: homers). And that's fine...like I said I wouldn't have taken Ricky there either, unless I was going to go all in with the "you can't win without scoring runs" argument. but honestly, on my list of baseball players, he's not even on there.

I was just saying, you come off sounding a little...abrupt, condescending.

[oykib]

oh i was just picking a statistic at random (re: homers). And that's fine...like I said I wouldn't have taken Ricky there either, unless I was going to go all in with the "you can't win without scoring runs" argument. but honestly, on my list of baseball players, he's not even on there.

I was just saying, you come off sounding a little...abrupt, condescending.

That might be true. But it's a sports argument. When a guy flubs a pick, you've gotta give him the business.

It's like Cal Ripken going at the beginning of the fourth round and Honus Wagner going at the end of the sixth.

But it goes both ways. I've got nothing but prasie for General Mike. He's had both excellent picks and excellent draft strategy. I doubt I'd have done as well to this point.

[Karlifornia]

Oh so those statements are true, Oykib? Uh, no.. Those statements are your opinions. There is nothing factual about them.

Ok, let me run down Rickey's line for you, and I'll defend my selection of him:

-All-time leader in Stolen Bases with 1,406..second place Lou Brock has 938.

-All-time leader in runs scored with 2,295...ahead of Ty Cobb who has 2,246.

-Second all-time in walks with 2,190..ahead of Babe Ruth and Ted Williams..only Barry Bonds has more....

-Led the league in steals TWELVE times. The first time being in 1981, and the last time being 1999. That's SEVENTEEN YEARS. Most players aren't even in the league more than 10 years.

-10 time All-Star

-1981 Gold Glove Winner

-1990 AL MVP..doesn't happen much for leadoff hitters

-Over 3,000 hits

-297 Homers

I don't know how many players can say they played at such a high level for such a long time. He had speed and base-stealing ability that nobody else has ever had, but he wasn't just a track star. He had bona-fide All-Star talent. I don't think he's a reach at all.

[Schmidty]

That might be true. But it's a sports argument. When a guy flubs a pick, you've gotta give him the business.

that's totally cool, but "flubbing" is more often than not, a personal opinion. No offense, but you make your opinions sound like they were written in stone next to the Ten Commandments. :)

[oykib]

Oh so those statements are true, Oykib? Uh, no.. Those statements are your opinions. There is nothing factual about them.

Ok, let me run down Rickey's line for you, and I'll defend my selection of him:

-All-time leader in Stolen Bases with 1,406..second place Lou Brock has 938.

-All-time leader in runs scored with 2,295...ahead of Ty Cobb who has 2,246.

-Second all-time in walks with 2,190..ahead of Babe Ruth and Ted Williams..only Barry Bonds has more....

-Led the league in steals TWELVE times. The first time being in 1981, and the last time being 1999. That's SEVENTEEN YEARS. Most players aren't even in the league more than 10 years.

-10 time All-Star

-1981 Gold Glove Winner

-1990 AL MVP..doesn't happen much for leadoff hitters

-Over 3,000 hits

-297 Homers

I don't know how many players can say they played at such a high level for such a long time. He had speed and base-stealing ability that nobody else has ever had, but he wasn't just a track star. He had bona-fide All-Star talent. I don't think he's a reach at all.

I already stated that he was the all-time steals and Runs leader.

His career OBP is .401 against a league average of .327. That's amazing. But his SLG is .419 against a league average of .401. His OPS+ is 127.

Jim Rice's OPS+ is 128. OPS+ is adjusted for park. He was twice the ballplayer Jim Rice was. The extra bases Rickey picked up stealing aren't included in that number. But the number does put things in perspective.

Joe D's OPS+ was 155. He played in the era before gold gloves. But would have likely won ten as a CF rather than playing pretty good defense in a corner for most of his career.

When Joltin' Joe was picked, admittedly early, people said it was a mistake, too.

That's not mentioning players that haven't been picked yet that are better than Joe D.

[DaddyTorgo]

that's totally cool, but "flubbing" is more often than not, a personal opinion. No offense, but you make your opinions sound like they were written in stone next to the Ten Commandments. :)that about says it

[Travis]

8.4 - Walter Johnson - Baseball

2.17 career ERA
417 wins
110 shutouts
531 complete games in 666 starts
7 consecutive 25+ win seasons
20+ game winner 12 times in 21 seasons
Initial inductee into the Baseball HOF with Ruth, Cobb, Wagner and Mathewson

[ISiddiqui]

Btw, for what its worth, I think Travis' pick was FAR better than RFUS's pick. That's one of the players I'd have easily picked over Henderson. Yeah, I guess I agree with oykib on Rickey.

[Travis]

Just wanted to mention there is a typo in the team lists on the first page. Walt Frazier is listed on my team when he was the next pick as I selected Cousy.

[Schmidty]

Just wanted to mention there is a typo in the team lists on the first page. Walt Frazier is listed on my team when he was the next pick as I selected Cousy.

I know. I've been so frazzled, I've been lazy. It'l be fixed when I wake up tommorrow morning. :)

[vex]

8.5 - Brooks Robinson - Baseball

16 gold gloves.

[oykib]

I love the Walter Johnson pick. He was the first guy I was thinking about when I was talking about five guys clearly better than Rickey.

Brooks Robinson I'm not so in love with.

[ISiddiqui]

Robinson is definetly a defense-first pick, but its hard to evaluate defense, really. How much did that defense help? Does it make up for his 104 career OPS+? Its a difficult question IMO.

[oykib]

Robinson is definetly a defense-first pick, but its hard to evaluate defense, really. How much did that defense help? Does it make up for his 104 career OPS+? Its a difficult question IMO.

It's not too difficult IMO. I don't think it makes up for it. I think he's rightly in the HOF. But being selected in this group means that he's one of the 24 or so best players in baseball history.

I don't want to give away any hints. But in a round or two, I think someone's going to make a pick that gives us a Ripken/Wagner situation with Robinson.

[General Mike]

Walter Johnson is a great pick. I was hoping he would slip a little bit further, so I could grab him here. Oh well.

[ISiddiqui]

I don't want to give away any hints. But in a round or two, I think someone's going to make a pick that gives us a Ripken/Wagner situation with Robinson.
I'd say that's way too big of a hint, but I have two in mind that could fit the criteria ;).

[Schmidty]

Via list, kcchief selects:

8.6 Brett Favre - Football

[Schmidty]

I was shocked to see that he's still around:

8.7 John Elway - Football

[Raiders Army]

I would've taken Elway over Marino.

[ISiddiqui]

I would have taken Farve over both ;). Then again, I may be a bit biased, since Farve is my favorite NFL player.

[Maple Leafs]

Not sure if voters will "get" the pick, but he seems like excellent value here:

8.8 Don Hutson, football

[kcchief19]

I wanted to take Hutson, but I went with Favre because I thought he would have a bit more recognition. Forget Jerry Rice; Hutson was the receiver who revolutionized football. Just think how long his receiving touchdowns record stood -- and he played in an era when nobody threw the ball. Something like 1/4 of his career receptions were touchdowns, and he regularly had more yards receiving than entire teams had. When he retired, he had twice as many catches as the next best guy. He was the Babe Ruth of wide receivers.

Inevitably, my pick came down between Elway and Favre. I like that Elway was a two-sport star, had probably the strongest arm in league history and could drive teams nutty with his scrambles, but I went with Favre for his heart and grittiness. This is a guy who would play with his eyes popping out of his skull. He dragged the Packers to respectibility and finally won a Super Bowl because the team finally got him a defense. Elway finally won a Super Bowl when he had a great running back, a great receiver and a chop-blocking offensive line.

So, yes, I really picked Favre because I can't stand Old Horseface. Bastard.

[TazFTW]

With the ninth pick in the eigth round, Team Taz selects

Ray Bourque, hockey

[Sublime 2]

I love Raymond Bourque!

[DaddyTorgo]

Elway over Marino...that's questionable at best.

[Schmidty]

Elway over Marino...that's questionable at best.

Do you mean in order of picks? Because you obviously took Marino before Elway. I tend to think of them as similar, but I give the edge to Elway because of his mobility and championship rings.

I was actually a little suprised you took Young first before the other two. He was great, but not Marino-Elway-Favre great.

[DaddyTorgo]

oh i plan on giving a little summarizing of my picks and making a good case for young. 1st ballet HOF, owns the highest lifetime QB rating (unless it was just surpassed)...dual threat both as a passer and a runner.

and marino I took over Elway because of the records man. the records the records. and marino did it all (relatively) alone versus Elway who had Sterling Sharpe and Terrell Davis, etc.

[Schmidty]

oh i plan on giving a little summarizing of my picks and making a good case for young. 1st ballet HOF, owns the highest lifetime QB rating (unless it was just surpassed)...dual threat both as a passer and a runner.

and marino I took over Elway because of the records man. the records the records. and marino did it all (relatively) alone versus Elway who had Sterling Sharpe and Terrell Davis, etc.

Meh, Elway is a winner, and Marino isn't. They have similar talents (other than running ability), but Elway got it done in the clutch. People can make excuses about talent around him, but getting it done is getting it done.

[ThunderingHERD]

Shit, I figured with Favre, Marino, and Elway still on the board that one might fall to me.

[kcchief19]

Young was a great athlete, but to me the knock against him is that early in his career both in the USFL and in Tampa Bay he was absolutely horrific ... not Ryan Leaf/Joey Harrington horrific, but horrific nonetheless. His one great statistic -- quarterback rating -- is a by-product of the fact that during his erratic youth when he would have made his most mistakes he spent four years mopping up after Joe Montana's victories and learning from the master. By the time of Montana's injury when he finally got his break, Young was much better prepared to succeed than Elway, Favre and Marino were who were thrust into being The Man with less experience and much greater success. If Young had spent those four years in Tampa Bay, he might have still one day found his greatness, but you could shave 10 points off his career quarterback rating.

Still, a great athlete, but I'd take the other three over him.

[DaddyTorgo]

Young was a great athlete, but to me the knock against him is that early in his career both in the USFL and in Tampa Bay he was absolutely horrific ... not Ryan Leaf/Joey Harrington horrific, but horrific nonetheless. His one great statistic -- quarterback rating -- is a by-product of the fact that during his erratic youth when he would have made his most mistakes he spent four years mopping up after Joe Montana's victories and learning from the master. By the time of Montana's injury when he finally got his break, Young was much better prepared to succeed than Elway, Favre and Marino were who were thrust into being The Man with less experience and much greater success. If Young had spent those four years in Tampa Bay, he might have still one day found his greatness, but you could shave 10 points off his career quarterback rating.

Still, a great athlete, but I'd take the other three over him.I could have taken Elway over him I suppose, and in hindsight i might have. but i would never take farve over young. no way

[General Mike]

With the ninth pick in the eigth round, Team Taz selects

Ray Bourque, hockey

f*cker

[General Mike]

with the 10th pick, of the 8th round, the General Mike All-Stars select, Hakeem "the Dream" Olajuwon, basketball

[Raiders Army]

I got my two pix ready.

[ThunderingHERD]

With the 11th pick of the 8th round, I'll take <b>Charles Barkley</b>, basketball.

[Raiders Army]

8.11: Tom Seaver, Baseball
9.1: George "Meadowlark" Lemon, Basketball

Edit--That's George "Meadowlark" Lemon from the Harlem Globetrotters in case you guys didn't know. He was the heart and soul of the Harlem Globetrotters and was forever immortalized when he helped Scooby Doo solve mysteries.

[Raiders Army]

Less than 24 picks left to go in the draft!

[vtbub]

8.11: Tom Seaver, Baseball
9.1: George Lemon, Basketball
Is George "Meadowlark"?

[ThunderingHERD]

9.2: <b>O.J. Simpson</b>

Yeh, I said it.

[Raiders Army]

I was wondering if anyone would recognize his name.

[Raiders Army]

9.2: <b>O.J. Simpson</b>

Yeh, I said it.
Is that for football or for murder?

[ThunderingHERD]

Is that for football or for murder?

:D

[Travis]

I love the Seaver pick. Played ball with a guy for a few years that had nearly identical pitching form. Ended up learning a lot about Seaver because of that similarity (prompted me to do some research and reading about his career). Good pick!

[General Mike]

9.3 Mike Bossy, hockey

[TazFTW]

With the fourth pick of the ninth round, Team Taz selects

Deion Sanders, football

[ISiddiqui]

8.11: Tom Seaver, BaseballGreat pick! I just couldn't believe he fell to the end of the 8th round.

[oykib]

I feel the same way about Hakeem Olajouwan. A truly excellent pick.

[Maple Leafs]

Mixed feelings about this pick... he's probably in the top ten all time and he's an unbeatable value at this spot. But I'm very hesitant because I suspect the voters won't know who he is. Ah well, let's go with...

9.5 Eddie Shore, hockey

[Schmidty]

9.6 "Pistol" Pete Maravich

This is a vote for a player I have seen a lot of video of (since he's a top 3 favorite), even though he never won anything in the NBA, but he was possibly the greatest college player ever. One thing is for sure (in my opinion), he was the most electric, exciting player EVER.

[DaddyTorgo]

Mixed feelings about this pick... he's probably in the top ten all time and he's an unbeatable value at this spot. But I'm very hesitant because I suspect the voters won't know who he is. Ah well, let's go with...

9.5 Eddie Shore, hockeydamm. i was hoping he'd slide down to me.

[kcchief19]

I was wondering when OJ would go. Should have been an early round pick, but his stock falls for obvious reasons.

My last two picks will be interesting. First up is:

Dominique Wilkins- basketball

Top 10 all-time in scoring and the original "Human Highlight Reel."

[Grammaticus]

Hey, where is Lou Alcinder and Cassius Clay?

[vex]

9.8 - Guy Lafleur - Hockey

[Travis]

9.9 - Paul Coffey - Hockey

4 Stanley Cups
3 Norris Trophies
5 100+ point seasons
1409 GP, 396 G, 1135 A, 1531 Pts, 1800 PIM

[vtbub]

<b>9.10 Ken Dryden</b>- Hockey

[Schmidty]

Via list, RFUS selects:

9.11 Jacques Plante - Hockey

[Schmidty]

Via list, Daddy Torgo selects:

9.12 Marcel Dionne - Hockey

10.1 Josh "The Black Babe Ruth" Gibson - Baseball

[Schmidty]

Via list, RFUS selects:

10.2 George Gervin - Basketball

[vtbub]

<b>10.3 Steffi Graf</b>- Wildcard

[Travis]

10.4 - Warren Moon - Football

In all of professional football, nobody has thrown for more yards than he has. Had he spent his entire career in the NFL instead of being forced to choose an alternate route for the first 6 years of his career, Marino would likely be forced into second place in the record books.

Had it all during his prime, could make it happen with his legs, his head and his arm. Part of 5 straight Grey Cup Champions in 6 years playing in the CFL before going down to NFL where he continued his torrid pace.

CFL Awards

Grey Cup Champion: 1978-1982
CFL MVP: 1983

NFL Awards

AFC Player of the Year: 1989
AFC Offensive Player of the Year: 1990
Pro Bowl: 1988-95, 1997

Statistics

CFL: 1369 com, 2382 att, 21,228 yds, 144 TD, 77 Int
NFL: 3988 com, 6823 att, 49,325 yds, 291 TD, 233 Int
Tot: 5357 com, 9205 att, 70,553 yds, 435 TD, 310 Int

Yes, it's hard to compare his CFL years statistically, but what his numbers could have been with 6 more full seasons in the NFL would have been amazing.

[oykib]

Via list, Daddy Torgo selects:

9.12 Marcel Dionne - Hockey

10.1 Josh "The Black Babe Ruth" Gibson - Baseball

Love the Josh Gibson pick. The fact that you got him in the tenth round really makes it great.

[Schmidty]

Vexroid was on an our ago, but didn't make a pick. It's been almost 6 hours since the last pick. I think I should make the autopick for him since I made a rule and want to stick by it. Do you guys think that would be too harsh?

[DaddyTorgo]

Love the Josh Gibson pick. The fact that you got him in the tenth round really makes it great.yeah. i'd been eyeing him for the last probably...two sets of picks that I've made, but since I hadn't noticed anyone even leaning in that direction with their baseball picks I figured I was safe leaving him.

and you love the dionne pick too. 1300 NHL games, 1700 points. Best player to never hoist Lord Stanley's cup. Overshadowed by Gretzkey while he played, but no doubt a great hockey player.

edit: and RFUS stole Plante who was the other guy I was considering for that pick.

[DaddyTorgo]

Vexroid was on an our ago, but didn't make a pick. It's been almost 6 hours since the last pick. I think I should make the autopick for him since I made a rule and want to stick by it. Do you guys think that would be too harsh?i hate to see that resorted to. maybe wait another hour or two, since he may be having dinner and mulling over his picks or something?

[Schmidty]

i hate to see that resorted to. maybe wait another hour or two, since he may be having dinner and mulling over his picks or something?

Yeah, I guess so, but this draft has been going on for 13 days. That's just insane. And mostly because people have failed to send their picks in. It's just frustrating.