This pissed me off... [Archive] - Front Office Football Central

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Kodos

03-13-2006, 09:31 AM

Randle El signs on with Washington
The Associated Press
WASHINGTON

The Washington Redskins snagged their second receiver in two days of free agency Sunday, agreeing to terms with Antwaan Randle El for a seven-year contract that could be worth up to $31 million.

The signing comes one day after the Redskins sent a third-round pick in this year's draft and a fourth-round selection in 2007 for San Francisco receiver Brandon Lloyd. Randle El and Lloyd are expected to be formally introduced at Redskins Park today.

Randle El caught 35 passes for 558 yards last season.

I wish he'd stayed with the Steelers, since his other choices seemed to be Chicago and most of the NFC East. Stupid Dan Snyder... :mad:

Butter

03-13-2006, 09:33 AM

Anything that hurts the Steelers gets the thumbs-up from me.

QuikSand

03-13-2006, 09:34 AM

I realize that he's a pretty exciting player, but an $11m signing bonus for a guy who has basically proven that he isn't an every down receiver seems too much to me. I like him a bit... I'd like to have him on my team as my 3rd wideout... but i'm not sure I'd pay top-starter money for the privilege.

Of course, I woudln't have given David Patten (?!?!?) a big contract, either.

stevew

03-13-2006, 09:37 AM

Anything that hurts the Steelers gets the thumbs-up from me.

Other than Punt returns, I certainly won't be missing the mental midget.

Chas in Cinti

03-13-2006, 09:45 AM

Mental Midget?

The guys plays WR, lines up at QB and RB, plus plays special teams. Pittsburgh's execution during "gimmick" plays directly correlates to his ability and expertise. That doesn't really make any sense to me?

-Chas

Butter

03-13-2006, 09:46 AM

He DID throw their only TD in the Super Bowl.

stevew

03-13-2006, 09:50 AM

He made approximately 6 big plays this whole season. Meanwhile he missed a bunch of catchable balls, ran east west on too many punt returns. Plus you get the added bonus of seeing him bitch to the ref about interference at any given opportunity, probably once every game. Even the daggar play vs Cincy, he ran about 10 yards way too far on that flea flicker, and almost screwed it up. I did like some of the things he brought to the table, but definately not a player worth more than 3 million a season, and that is even sketchy.

Kodos

03-13-2006, 09:55 AM

He's my favorite current player not named Peyton Manning, but I think he's best suited as a third WR. And Washington definitely overpaid.

I just wanted him to go to a team that I could root for.

rkmsuf

03-13-2006, 10:05 AM

wow, that's way too much for him and the 49er guy.

Ksyrup

03-13-2006, 10:05 AM

WSUCougar

03-13-2006, 10:14 AM

And seven years to boot. Yikes.

moriarty

03-13-2006, 10:28 AM

I thought the Redskins learned their lessons from the Deon/Bruce Smith overspending days.

Ahh, I guess getting lucky with Santana Moss last year spoiled ole Danny Boy, and he's back to his crazy spending ways.

muns

03-13-2006, 10:38 AM

Im with Stevew on this one. I like Randel El but not for that amount of money, i was glad the Steelers didnt try to counter. I really dont think we will miss much of a beat without him. As a WR he is average, a good returner even tho he does run east west too much, but the thing i hated about him was the way he would complain about not getting a call basically on every play. Good luck to the Redskins with him

wade moore

03-13-2006, 10:56 AM

As a Skins fan I'm excited and scared about getting Randle El and Lloyd... Do I think it will help the offense on the field after watching the shmucks out there that called themselves WRs and weren't named Moss? Most definately YES!... Do I understand putting this much money behind these two guys? Ummm, no...

MikeVic

03-13-2006, 11:00 AM

I wonder who the Steelers will use/get now?

QuikSand

03-13-2006, 11:00 AM

And seven years to boot. Yikes.

I think it's fairly obvious that the seven years does not reflect more commitment in the deal, but probably less. In all likelihood, this is a 7 year deal with $11.5m in bonus, where the first 2-3 years are for minimal salaries, and then there will be a "reckoning" after year three (or so) where the team will have to decide whether to renegotiate or cut him. The 7 year deal, rather than (say) a 5 year deal, is just an accounting gimmick to reduce the cap for this season.

The guaranteed money is the thing. $11.5m is a good deal more than even the Bears were offering.

QuikSand

03-13-2006, 11:01 AM

MikeVic

03-13-2006, 11:03 AM

I wonder who the Steelers will use/get now?

wade moore

03-13-2006, 11:14 AM

I think it's fairly obvious that the seven years does not reflect more commitment in the deal, but probably less. In all likelihood, this is a 7 year deal with $11.5m in bonus, where the first 2-3 years are for minimal salaries, and then there will be a "reckoning" after year three (or so) where the team will have to decide whether to renegotiate or cut him. The 7 year deal, rather than (say) a 5 year deal, is just an accounting gimmick to reduce the cap for this season.

The guaranteed money is the thing. $11.5m is a good deal more than even the Bears were offering.

THe one thing I will say... After the first few years, Snyder (or his crew) seem to have really figured the salary cap out...

Cringer

03-13-2006, 11:18 AM

Woohoo! Bears didn't get him. Good.

IwasHere

03-13-2006, 11:20 AM

I wonder who the Steelers will use/get now?

Please don't forget that Hines Ward was a college QB.

If anything this will force the Steelers to bring in a real #2 WR and let Hines run the trick plays. I see this as an improvement in two ares for the Steelers.

I would of threw a fit if the Steelers tried to match the offer.

MikeVic

03-13-2006, 01:12 PM

Please don't forget that Hines Ward was a college QB.

If anything this will force the Steelers to bring in a real #2 WR and let Hines run the trick plays. I see this as an improvement in two ares for the Steelers.

I would of threw a fit if the Steelers tried to match the offer.

I remembered Hines was a QB, but I thought it was high school only? I meant who will the Steelers use as their 2nd WR? Anyone have a list of WR FA? :)

Subby

03-13-2006, 01:15 PM

What a great signing. Couldn't be happier...

Now the 'Skins need to go out and grab Archuleta.

wade moore

03-13-2006, 02:58 PM

What a great signing. Couldn't be happier...

Now the 'Skins need to go out and grab Archuleta.

um, already done ;).

Raiders Army

03-13-2006, 03:09 PM

I remembered Hines was a QB, but I thought it was high school only? I meant who will the Steelers use as their 2nd WR? Anyone have a list of WR FA? :)
He was a WR, RB, and QB in college.

Pyser

03-13-2006, 03:09 PM

i used to be jealous of all the skins signings, every offseason.

now, i laugh. enjoy your cap hell.

signed, a giants fan.

wade moore

03-13-2006, 03:14 PM

i used to be jealous of all the skins signings, every offseason.

now, i laugh. enjoy your cap hell.

signed, a giants fan.

That cap hell that we're in this season that everyone said we would be in?

I do enjoy it, I really do!

kcchief19

03-13-2006, 03:17 PM

I think it's fairly obvious that the seven years does not reflect more commitment in the deal, but probably less. In all likelihood, this is a 7 year deal with $11.5m in bonus, where the first 2-3 years are for minimal salaries, and then there will be a "reckoning" after year three (or so) where the team will have to decide whether to renegotiate or cut him. The 7 year deal, rather than (say) a 5 year deal, is just an accounting gimmick to reduce the cap for this season.

The guaranteed money is the thing. $11.5m is a good deal more than even the Bears were offering.
What's interesting to me is that this is the the third year in a row the Redskins have overpaid for talent in free agency. Have they discovered a new salary cap gimmick, or is it just a matter of time until their salary cap day of reckoning comes they end up with an FOF salary cap hell season where they can only carry 51 players without cutting their starting quarterback?

Pyser

03-13-2006, 03:27 PM

That cap hell that we're in this season that everyone said we would be in?

I do enjoy it, I really do!

well, the cap went up $17m this year. that was unexpected, but helped you this time.

Subby

03-13-2006, 03:30 PM

i used to be jealous of all the skins signings, every offseason.

now, i laugh. enjoy your cap hell.

signed, a giants fan.That's funny - you could have cut and pasted that from some other 'Skins hater's post for the past six off-seasons...say what you want about the 'Skins front office, but they do a great job managing the cap.

Subby

03-13-2006, 03:31 PM

matt - i think the "secret" is they give these guys lots of showy upfront money but have them on real long deals. Plus, they renegotiate the bejesus out of their roster every season...

stevew

03-13-2006, 03:34 PM

What's interesting to me is that this is the the third year in a row the Redskins have overpaid for talent in free agency. Have they discovered a new salary cap gimmick, or is it just a matter of time until their salary cap day of reckoning comes they end up with an FOF salary cap hell season where they can only carry 51 players without cutting their starting quarterback?

Looks actually like it was fairly easy.

http://redskins.scout.com/2/507127.html

Some 48 hours after being on the brink of being very limited in the free agent market, the Redskins are breathing much easier. Thanks to the CBA extension, with a few simple moves and player releases, the Redskins will be able to create plenty of cap space to fill their needs. Our resident Capologist looks at the potential moves and adds up the savings.

In Joe Gibbs own words “We (the Redskins) are very aggressive in free agency”. With the chances of an extension to the CBA looking in the balance for the last week, the Redskins could have been looking at an offseason of restraint instead of aggressive buying. However, when the owners agreed to the last obstacle in the way of a new labor agreement - a revenue sharing deal – on Wednesday evening, the Redskins were back in an “aggressive mood”.

With the new labor agreement now in place, the restrictions of the 30 percent rule and the prorating of bonus monies for only 4 years are washed away, so the Redskins can look at creating cap space to be an active player if free agency.

The first order of business is getting under the new cap limit for 2006 which has been set at $102.0m and we will start at the figure of $115.5m. Three occurrences have helped the Skins already without having to barely raise a finger:

* The mutually agreed release of LaVar Arrington and his killer contract (saving nearly $4.3m off his previous cap figure)
* The automatic spreading of option bonuses due in 2006 over the next 5 years instead of 4 (for those players who will have 5+ years left on their contracts after the options are exercised), saving $1.2m. The players involved Santana Moss ([body].350m savings), Chris Samuels ([body].350m), Casey Rabach ([body].1m) and Carlos Rogers ([body].4m), and
* The automatic voiding of likely to be earned (LTBE) incentive clauses tied to “no new CBA” in the contracts of Samuels ($3.5m), David Patten ([body].6m), Rabach ($1.6m) and Renaldo Wynn (0.4m), totalling $6.0m in savings.

The team has also tendered offers to three of its restricted free agents at the lower tender of [body].712m – Dockery, Jimoh and Chris Clemons.

Also the new CBA deal has increased base salaries across the board by $40,000 per player and this has a $1m impact on the Skins cap number.

This would leave the team at a cap figure of $105.4m, just $3.4m over the cap.

The Redskins also have 8 key players who have large roster bonuses due in 2006 (totalling $13.650m) that could be guaranteed and spread out over the remaining life of the contract or to 2010 if the tenure is longer. This move would result in a further $10.4m in savings for 2006, bringing the Redskins into cap compliance with $7m in cap space already created.

All this and the team has yet to cut or trade a player in the process.

So what other moves could assist in creating additional cap space and potential free agent dollars? Those likely to happen are the following:

* Patrick Ramsey could be traded (saving $1.7m)
* Brandon Noble ($1.7m), Cory Raymer ($1.0m), Matt Bowen ($2.0m), Tom Tupa ([body].6m) and Walt Harris ($2.0m) will probably be released within the next 48 hours (saving $7.3m)
* Jon Jansen and Randy Thomas could undertake a basic 2006 base salary to bonus conversion restructure in thier contracts that could save a further $5.1m.

If all these moves were made (allowing for replacement of released players under the Rule of 51), another $12.2m would be saved, pushing the projected cap number down to $18.2m below the NFL limit.

The Redskins may also be eligible for LTBE incentive cap credits carried over from 2005 would increase this gap even further.

So Washington has plenty of cap room to pursue its needs in free agency in 2006

2007 impact

At this point in time the Redskins have 51 players under contract in 2007 with Ladell Betts and Ethan Albright being the only notable UFA’s. These players currently count $93.730m – and that’s before any 2006 roster bonuses or other contract maniplutions are taken into account. The NFL salary cap in 2007 is predicted at around $109.0m. However, the new labor deal contains a mechanism to adjust the salary cap based on how much the teams collectively spend on player compensation. If the teams collectively spend more than the salary cap in a season -- which is possible since the cap is a flexible spending limit -- the cap would be automatically adjusted downward in subsequent seasons. If the teams collectively spend less than the salary cap in a season, the cap would be automatically adjusted upward in the future

IwasHere

03-13-2006, 04:33 PM

Ward became the starting QB for Georgia his Freshman year after an injury to the regular starter. But, he started that year at the RB position.

Hines WArd was the Peach Bowl MVP after throwing for over 400yds and rush for over 50yds.

IwasHere

03-13-2006, 04:35 PM

That's funny - you could have cut and pasted that from some other 'Skins hater's post for the past six off-seasons...say what you want about the 'Skins front office, but they do a great job managing the cap.
LOL And, this is why I will see Pro Bowl LB Lavar Arrington in a Skins uniform this year? :eek:

Pyser

03-13-2006, 06:03 PM

another 6 yr, 30m deal handed out by wash today. this time to de/olb carter.

i continue to love it

still signed, a giants fan

jamesUMD

03-13-2006, 06:19 PM

Arrington did not fit into their plans so his reluctance to renegotiate his deal meant he was gone. The Redskins have done a great job of managing the cap considering that they let guys go but manage to keep moving forward.

We let Pierce and Smoot go last year and got by fine. I really hope that Arrington goes to the Giants so you can feel our pain. All that talnet and desire and yet no discipline to channell the immense talent he has.

One of my friends is a Steelers fan and convinced me that it would be a good pick up for us. Pittsburgh is a run first team and Randle El will do well for us. If he can catch 40 balls a year it will be worth it. We just need someone to soften the coverage for Moss.

Mark my words the Redskins will:
Sign Todd Collins to mentor Jason Campbell in Saunders offense
On gameday the Skins will dress Brunell, Randle El, and Campbell, and leave Collins inactive for an extra spot on gameday.

wade moore

03-14-2006, 08:10 AM

well, the cap went up $17m this year. that was unexpected, but helped you this time.

Ummm.. maybe the STUPID owners didn't expect it, but the Skins and other teams did.

sachmo71

03-14-2006, 08:19 AM

This is very good news for the Cowboys.

duckman

03-14-2006, 08:22 AM

This is very good news for the Cowboys.

Indeed. :D

Daimyo

03-14-2006, 10:07 AM

Randel-El makes Wayne's look like a blue light special!

Kodos

03-14-2006, 10:30 AM

I wanted him to go to Indy as the third WR.

Bee

03-14-2006, 10:50 AM

I think it's hard to criticize the Redskins for overpaying for talent (which I think they do overpay). Six years ago I thought they were going to be in cap hell in 3 years. It never happened and every year it's the same thing. I think they understand the cap better than anyone else in the NFL and with an owner who's willing to spend cash up front they seem to stay out of too much trouble. Also, overpaying players tends to create good will with them so most are willing to restructure their deals to help keep the system going.

MIJB#19

03-14-2006, 11:33 AM

Bee

03-14-2006, 11:36 AM

If they would have spent the money from Randle El or Lloyd on Drew Brees, I think they'd have been in much better shape. Of course, I'm not a HOF coach. :D

wade moore

03-14-2006, 11:36 AM

That explains why the Redskins have all that cap room. I mean, they don't even have a starting quarterback, do they?

but they pay someone like they are one...

<table> <tbody><tr><td class="tabledata">2004</td> <td class="tabledata" align="right">760000.00</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="tabledata">2005</td> <td class="tabledata" align="right">765000.00</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="tabledata">2006</td> <td class="tabledata" align="right">4000000.00</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="tabledata">2007</td> <td class="tabledata" align="right">5200000.00</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="tabledata">2008</td> <td class="tabledata" align="right">6400000.00</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="tabledata">2009</td> <td class="tabledata" align="right">7600000.00</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="tabledata">2010</td> <td class="tabledata" align="right">8800000.00</td></tr></tbody> </table>

wade moore

03-14-2006, 11:37 AM

Dola: What the hell is with that formatting?!

Daimyo

03-14-2006, 02:03 PM

wade moore

03-14-2006, 02:15 PM

rkmsuf

03-14-2006, 02:19 PM

But would you agree that the Skins are not headed for some impending cap doom?

It's not even that. You end up with a collection of big headed fat cats. Kills the team concept and overachivement if you have enough money to burn for 2 lifetimes.

Overpaying for good talent(not superstars, elite) is just a bad way to go about it.

Bee

03-14-2006, 02:30 PM

I don't know that I'd say the Skins understand the cap better than anyone, but they definitely have an owner willing to spend what it takes to get players. I doubt most owners are that willing to put out that much in signing bonuses every year.

I don't know...I've seen several articles in the last couple years where the writer says that another team's cap expert says the Redskins will be in trouble in free agency and every time they end up bringing in as much if not more than anyone else. The last one was just a couple weeks ago where either Peter King or Len Pasquelli (sp?) reported that according to another teams capologist even with a new CBA the Redskins wouldn't be able to sign both a WR and a DE. They've signed 2 expensive WRs, an expensive DE and a high dollar S.

wade moore

03-14-2006, 03:01 PM

It's not even that. You end up with a collection of big headed fat cats. Kills the team concept and overachivement if you have enough money to burn for 2 lifetimes.

Overpaying for good talent(not superstars, elite) is just a bad way to go about it.

I'm not saying that you're wrong... the only thing I'm argueing against here is the Cowgirls fans who keep saying "the Skins are headed for cap hell!"... I don't necessarily think the money we're throwing around is good, and I've even said it on here... but I don't buy the "cap hell" garbage...

Subby

03-14-2006, 03:02 PM

It's not even that. You end up with a collection of big headed fat cats. Kills the team concept and overachivement if you have enough money to burn for 2 lifetimes.
I don't think you really understand the 'Skins as currently constructed. They are a team through and through - no real "me" guys on the team. Clinton Portis is a good example - that guy gives more of himself on every play than I have ever seen from another RB - he's a small dude but he is a blocking maniac. He also has a monster contract - but he seems to play harder for us than he did in Denver.

Everyone looks at these deals and starts saying..."Oh Danny's at it again...", but these are simply guys that the Gibbs coaching staff wants and Snyder and the front office is charged with making it happen. They are able to sign these players under the same rules to which every other team is beholden.

Most of the guys they are adding are young guys...this is much different from the famous Bruce Smith-Mark Carrier-Deion Sanders-Jeff George offseason from last decade when Snyder had just acquired the team and had no idea what he was doing. I think it reasonable to assume that Snyder actually had a learning curve and maybe he is actually *good* at owning a team now...

rkmsuf

03-14-2006, 03:03 PM

I don't think you really understand the 'Skins as currently constructed. They are a team through and through - no real "me" guys on the team. Clinton Portis is a good example - that guy gives more of himself on every play than I have ever seen from another RB - he's a small dude but he is a blocking maniac. He also has a monster contract - but he seems to play harder for us than he did in Denver.

Everyone looks at these deals and starts saying..."Oh Danny's at it again...", but these are simply guys that the Gibbs coaching staff wants and Snyder and the front office is charged with making it happen. They are able to sign these players under the same rules to which every other team is beholden.

Most of the guys they are adding are young guys...this is much different from the famous Bruce Smith-Mark Carrier-Deion Sanders-Jeff George offseason from last decade when Snyder had just acquired the team and had no idea what he was doing. I think it reasonable to assume that Snyder actually had a learning curve and maybe he is actually *good* at owning a team now...

I guess I was speaking in general of the philosophy. More power to the Skins if they can find motivated guys.

IwasHere

03-14-2006, 03:19 PM

Daimyo

03-14-2006, 03:20 PM

But would you agree that the Skins are not headed for some impending cap doom?
I don't know... Since the details of these deals are never really public I don't think I'm qualified to say whether or not they're headed for cap hell. I do think a lot of these big deals are for guys who have potential, but haven't really played up to their new deals yet. It depends a lot on how well these guys perform. I'm sure Randel-El's deal is very cap friendly for the first two or three years, but if they have to cut him after year three, the $5M cap hit the next season will suck. On the other hand, if he pans out and they can reneg him it will be a great deal. If two or three have to get cut in three years they very well could end up with a season of cap hell.

If you have an owner who can afford to keep dropping $12M bonuses on 7 year deals to get the lower base salaries in the first two or three seasons (knowing you'll never pay years 4-7 anyway) I think its a great strategy, my only point is that I don't think a lot of owners can handle (or want to handle) all that upfront cash. I do give them a lot of credit for being able to structure deals so they appear huge when they're actually probably very cap friendly up front, but i don't think they're alone there either. :)

Daimyo

03-14-2006, 03:22 PM

Spin it any way you want, but this is going to kill the Skins next year. Arrington was the heart and sole of that defense last year.
From the bench?

Subby

03-14-2006, 03:39 PM

On what planet is losing your best player and Defensive Captain a good idea? In order to sign these new contracts they had to release ALL PRO Lavar Arrington.

Spin it any way you want, but this is going to kill the Skins next year. Arrington was the heart and sole of that defense last year.This is wrong on so many levels I don't even know where to start. :)

For starters, it is obvious you don't follow the 'Skins, because Cornelus Griffin was the "heart and soul" of that defense last season. Arrington wasn't even the best linebacker on the team (that would be Marcus Washington, who has been an all-pro more recently than Arrington).

Renaldo Wynn is the captain of the Redskins defense, unless you were using the term "captain" as some sort of geeky "oh captain my captain" modifier.

Sorry. but you'll have to do a better job convincing me of why losing an overpaid linebacker who didn't play on passing downs is going to "kill" the 'Skins.

wade moore

03-14-2006, 03:51 PM

This is wrong on so many levels I don't even know where to start. :)

For starters, it is obvious you don't follow the 'Skins, because Cornelus Griffin was the "heart and soul" of that defense last season. Arrington wasn't even the best linebacker on the team (that would be Marcus Washington, who has been an all-pro more recently than Arrington).

Renaldo Wynn is the captain of the Redskins defense, unless you were using the term "captain" as some sort of geeky "oh captain my captain" modifier.

Sorry. but you'll have to do a better job convincing me of why losing an overpaid linebacker who didn't play on passing downs is going to "kill" the 'Skins.

You forgot to mention he wasn't even AT at least one game...

Franklinnoble

03-14-2006, 05:20 PM

Funny how in all the free-agency frenzy, Mr. All-Pro, Heart and Soul Arrington hasn't gotten a sniff from anybody yet.

Kodos

03-14-2006, 05:26 PM

He's got it all, hot lovin' every night!
He's heart and soul!

jamesUMD

03-14-2006, 06:25 PM

Definitely a misguided sole with the Arrington comment. He is more like a highlight reel. He makes a great play that they show on ESPN, and then edit out the 4-5 that hes missed a tackle, assignment, or was too busy basking in his own glory to realize that there were 10 other guys on the field with him.

I will root for him in the right climate (AFC, or at the very least not in the NFC East) but still think we have gotten more coming in than we let go out.

stevew

03-15-2006, 01:55 AM

Franklinnoble

03-15-2006, 02:19 AM

Snyder would get kicked out of any non-gmac league for giving out this deal.

2006 585000.00
2007 595000.00
2008 820000.00
2009 4000000.00
2010 4250000.00
2011 4500000.00
2012 5000000.00

8 million to sign. 3.5 million dollar roster bonus before year 2 I believe.

I believe the cap hits look like this(roughly).
2.185
2.37
2.6
6.2
6.45
5.1
5.6

Funny... there are rules in FOF to keep you from doing that... otherwise, EVERYONE would do that.

Which makes you wonder... there are no restrictions against these sort of contracts in the NFL. Why aren't more owners doing this? Snyder can't be the only one with the cash to afford it...

Subby

03-15-2006, 07:34 AM

Snyder would get kicked out of any non-gmac league for giving out this deal.
FOF still allows backloaded deals. In FOFL we have a rule stating that any contract worth more than 10 times the veteran minimum must be comprised of at least 20% bonus money. So if the vet minimum is 1m and and I give a guy a 5 year deal at 20m total, 4m must be bonus money.

I think these Redskins deals are fine, because there is a ton of guaranteed money in them. As the contracts become unwieldy, productive players will get re-negotiated and underperforming players will get released.

Equating them to cheating is kind of silly.

cuervo72

03-15-2006, 07:42 AM

Definitely a misguided sole

Is this like a fish that swims upstream?