Wrestling: ECW One Night Stand Thread

[DeToxRox]

So far the crowd is going nuts.

Angle/Orton is on right now and the crowd is so behind Angle it's sick. I'm loving the atmosphere.

People posting make sure you acknolwedge spoilers.

[DeToxRox]

so far a lot of fun

tazz/lawler wasnt much a match

orton vs angle had amazing crowd energy. angle was so over with the crowd, and orton was as hated as anyone i've seen in ecw.

tajiri/crazy vs fbi was amazing. amazing tag match.

[Terps]

I liked the "You can't wrestle chants" directed towards Orton.

[DeToxRox]

I liked the "You can't wrestle chants" directed towards Orton.

the fans fucking destroyed orton lol. some amazing work.

[DeToxRox]

Terps -- That Sabu/Rey finish had to be a work right?

If not my god, how are either of them but especially Rey walking?

Amazing match.

[Terps]

I would think so. I didn't like how it ended though. But that table didn't really break the right way.

[Joe]

Kind of surprised Rey kept the title. I would've thought they'd have Sabu win, turn it to the ECW title, and set up some tournament on smackdown which Batista would win.

[Terps]

The other title match better end clean.

[DeToxRox]

I would think so. I didn't like how it ended though. But that table didn't really break the right way.

Yeah, how loud the guy said it's over seemed like it was a work, but Rey landed head first perfectly vertical on the floor. Floor mat or not that was sick.

[Terps]

haha. Beulah, haven't seen her in a LONG time.

[Joe]

why isnt sandman on tonight?

[Terps]

Dave Meltzer on the Rey/Sabu ending:

The finish was spectacular. Sabu did a triple jump DDT on a table to the floor. Ugly landing, as designed. The doctor then stopped the match and it was ruled no contest. They acted as if both were hurt, but it was clearly designed as it was. It wouldn't shock me to see them brought back later because they don't have non-finishes, or this was the only way they could protect both sides.<!-- / message --><!-- sig -->

[DeToxRox]

Wow. This tag team match was INSANE. barbed wire, fire, oh my god.

[Terps]

Another dumb ending for the Dreamer/Funk/Beulah vs. Edge/ Foley/Lita match.

[DeToxRox]

Another dumb ending for the Dreamer/Funk/Beulah vs. Edge/ Foley/Lita match.

The ending in this match didnt matter to me, it was just insane.

[Terps]

Nice to see Tanaka back, wish he had a better opponent than Balls Mahoney though.

[Terps]

Lame match, Tanaka could've been used a lot better than that.

[Terps]

Cena is gonna get DESTROYED by the crowd. Even more so if he retains the title.

[JeffNights]

tanaka? he bites, balls mahoney should be pissed if anybody.

[Terps]

So Sandman gets to come out to beat up on Eugene. *yawn*

[Terps]

Fan sign of the night: If Cena Wins We Riot.

[DeToxRox]

Jesus. Cena throws his hat, it gets thrown back. He throws his shirt in the crowd. Its thrown back. He repeatedly tries, repeatedly tossed back. Then a guy wipes his ass with it and throws it back. Then they throw TP at Cena

And now they're chanting "Cena swallows" and "You can't wrestle"

[DeToxRox]

I have honestly never seen an atmosphere like this for any match ever. Not even Hogan vs Rock compares to the intensity of this crowd for this match.

[Pumpy Tudors]

What channel was all of this on?

[DeToxRox]

What channel was all of this on?

PPV

[DeToxRox]

these fans are rabid. I love them calling out Cena with "You Can't Wrestle" and "Same Old Shit"

[Terps]

Yeah, apparently they haven't watched ECW too much either then cause RVD has been doing the 'Same Old Shit' forever.

[DeToxRox]

As this match goes on I am not doubting a riot if Cena wins.

[Joe]

http://www.wwe.com/content/media/touts/splash/images/2898300

[DeToxRox]

About the ending I suspected but damn did I love the THANK YOU EDGE chants

[Terps]

At least the spinner belt will be gone. Ok show overall.

[Schmidty]

The hate for Cena is ridiculous. I've been watching wrestling for 23-24 years, and have seen MUCH worse wrestlers (charisma and ability) than Cena get nothing but love. The whole hate thing started on the internet when a few self-styled "experts" convinced the rest of the sheep to hate him.

I really like the guy. I'm not saying he's even remotely one of the best wrestlers I've seen, but he sure as hell doesn't deserve the venom he recieves.

I'm sure someone will rebutt with a list of reasons to hate him, with detailed critiques of every move he does, and the flaws in gimmick. That's fine, but there are a ton of guys that are over who have just as many flaws, including Triple H (who I happen to like too).

[Joe]

RVD winning is so predictable

[DeToxRox]

I think the reason Cena is so hated is because they took him when he was popular and tried turning him into something hes not. He pulled an opposite Rock. Rock started off as forced down our throats, too nice, etc. He evolved into a guy people loved to cheer, and he could work both ways.

Cena has only worked his best as a heel, then he was forced into being a face and he just got old and repetitive fast.

I never liked him but thats how I've seen it anyway.

[Neuqua]

I miss The Rock.

[Schmidty]

I think the reason Cena is so hated is because they took him when he was popular and tried turning him into something hes not. He pulled an opposite Rock. Rock started off as forced down our throats, too nice, etc. He evolved into a guy people loved to cheer, and he could work both ways.

Cena has only worked his best as a heel, then he was forced into being a face and he just got old and repetitive fast.

I never liked him but thats how I've seen it anyway.

You make a good point, but I also don't think it's his fault that the bookers (or whoever) pushed him into his current role.

He's a talented, hard-working guy, and it's a shame to see him get so much crap. At this point, I hope the WWE doesn't give in and put him on the backburner.

[Terps]

I'd bet the decision gets reversed on RAW tomorrow.

[duckman]

I'd bet the decision gets reversed on RAW tomorrow.

Ya think? ;)

[Schmidty]

I'd bet the decision gets reversed on RAW tomorrow.

I hope it does. :)

[Terps]

I'd rather Rhino come back (if he really is leaving TNA soon) with the ECW World Title, since he never lost it.

[duckman]

You make a good point, but I also don't think it's his fault that the bookers (or whoever) pushed him into his current role.

He's a talented, hard-working guy, and it's a shame to see him get so much crap. At this point, I hope the WWE doesn't give in and put him on the backburner.

What I find amusing is the dweebs on the internets (;) ) that wish Cena's death or to suffer a career ending injury. All the guy does is do what he is told to do and people wish the worst things for him.

[JonInMiddleGA]

I'd rather Rhino come back (if he really is leaving TNA soon) with the ECW World Title, since he never lost it.

FWIW, Rhino told the crowd at a TNA houseshow this weekend that he had turned down a contract offer from the WWE.

Like I said take that FWIW, could have been a work, could have been the truth, I guess we'll find out eventually.

[Terps]

From WWE.com:

"Controversy reigns supreme over the result of the WWE Championship match at ECW One Night Stand. Did John Cena really lose the WWE Championship? The Championship situation will be addressed right when RAW goes on the air tonight at 9/8 CT"

[Joe]

http://www.wwe.com/content/media/touts/large/29062/2899700

[Ryche]

I'm guessing they'll hold up the title and have a three way match between Cena, Edge and RVD at the next ppv. Or Van Dam might say screw that, I'm the ECW title holder now, leaving the WWE belt to be decided between Edge and Cena.

You have to love the "You can't wrestle" chants directed at Cena and Orton, and then the fans going nuts cheering for guys like Dreamer. I don't have a problem with Cena, but I think they will have to figure out a way to turn him heel soon. But that really can't happen until after his movie.

[MikeVic]

I enjoyed the PPV, but still liked the first One Night Stand better overall. The heat for the matches was awesome. I love this new Angle. No bullshit, just wrestle. The two tag matches were really fun too. Also, even if the ending for the Sabu/Rey match was a work, they both must have gotten hurt from that bump... especially Rey. That was one of the sickest DDTs ever.

There were just too many stupid endings for my liking...

As for why the hate on Cena... I liked him when he first started and had the funny raps. Then he just stopped doing them all of a sudden. The first time in a loooong time that I heard something funny from him was on Wednesday, when he said something like:

"The homocidal, suicidal, genocidal, dance recital sheik of the week." :)

[JonInMiddleGA]

Speaking of TNA earlier in the thread (and reasonably related to the "new" ECW as well) ... here's some video from the TNA show in Philly over the weekend, as the fans sort of recreated one of ECW's legendary moments.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=vWPCrvMWZ1U&search=tna

(That's Bubba Ray Dudley cheering the crowd on, that's the James Gang wandering around trying not to get hit with chairs. Still not sure whether it was a shoot or a work, but the James Gang walked out & refused to finish the match afterwards)

[Terps]

FWIW, Rhino told the crowd at a TNA houseshow this weekend that he had turned down a contract offer from the WWE.

Like I said take that FWIW, could have been a work, could have been the truth, I guess we'll find out eventually.

Yup,

PWInsider.com

Rhino has just signed a multi-year deal with TNA so he's not going to ECW as rumored. His TNA deal was set to expire this July.

[Schmidty]

I love TNA, but I just wish they had more than an hour to work with. It makes the wrestlers seem too cardboard as far as their gimmicks and such. That isn't to say that I want it to become another WWE (or even close), but I think the "characters" could be more interesting.

[Desmond]

I love TNA, but I just wish they had more than an hour to work with. It makes the wrestlers seem too cardboard as far as their gimmicks and such. That isn't to say that I want it to become another WWE (or even close), but I think the "characters" could be more interesting.

TNA is just now figuring out how to pace a 1 hour show, give em some time before asking for an extra hour.

I disliked the show last for 2 reasons.

1) It's clear that this is simply a Vince McMahon run show. Heyman can talk all he wants about having control and reviving the name of ECW but in the end this was nothing more than a RAW show from a storyline perspective.

2) The crowd. Alot of people are praising the crowd but I absolutely hated them. They were a faux ECW crowd at best and a mark crowd at worst. A real ECW crowd would of shit all over the angles and finishes, especially in the Sabu/Rey match. In the main event they could of given 2 shits for RVD, all they wanted to do was boo Cena because thats what "all the smarts are doing". They just came off as a total poser ECW wannabe crowd to me.

The end of the show with Joey and Taz declaring RVD the new WWECW champion was....so, fucking retarded. If you're gonna do an angle, do it, don't half ass it. The people running this company have no idea how to book wrestling.

[Maple Leafs]

They just came off as a total poser ECW wannabe crowd to me.
You just descirbed 90% of the ECW fans I've ever known.

[Schmidty]

You just descirbed 90% of the ECW fans I've ever known.

Nothing to do with this, but are you having trouble getting onto the RWBL forums too?

[molson]

I think the reason Cena is so hated is because they took him when he was popular and tried turning him into something hes not. He pulled an opposite Rock. Rock started off as forced down our throats, too nice, etc. He evolved into a guy people loved to cheer, and he could work both ways.

Cena has only worked his best as a heel, then he was forced into being a face and he just got old and repetitive fast.

I never liked him but thats how I've seen it anyway.

I've come full circle with him, where I'm back to liking him. It would have easy and obvious for WWE to have him drop the title and turn him heel when the fans started boing him. Instead, the WWE basically said, "screw it, we're going with this guy". Essentially, the WWE kept Cena face, and turned the fans heel. It's been kind of fun to hear the smarks whining after every single Cena win.

[Desmond]

You just descirbed 90% of the ECW fans I've ever known.

fans and crowds are 2 different things. The atmosphere and dare I say it "wrestling intelligence" at every (9) ECW show I was ever at was very high. The crowd last night was nowhere near that.


And I think Cena is a very nice guy, and he's good at reacting to the crowd. His problem more and more is that he really isn't very good inside the ring (his punches last night were atrocious, the entire punching segment last night looked like day 1 of wrestling school. He literaly would punch RVD and hold his head out there for 2 seconds waiting for the retaliation.) And most importantly he isn't being allowed to cut promos on his own. Having to cut scripted, lame ass promos can kill anybodies heat but moreso for a guy like him he has shown he has very good promo ability on his own.

[DeToxRox]

fans and crowds are 2 different things. The atmosphere and dare I say it "wrestling intelligence" at every (9) ECW show I was ever at was very high. The crowd last night was nowhere near that.

I taped ONS so I rewatched it. It seemed like the crowds were more ROH then anything, which would fall in with your assumption of a marky crowd.

Stil, they definetly provided me with a lot of laughs.

[Desmond]

I taped ONS so I rewatched it. It seemed like the crowds were more ROH then anything, which would fall in with your assumption of a marky crowd.

Stil, they definetly provided me with a lot of laughs.

Yeah, it was kind of like that, though I would give ROH crowds more credit than that. It just seemed like they were reacting to what they thought they should rather than what they were knowledgable of.

The Big Show run in, The Rey/Sabu ending, The Sandman music, The screwjob finish, all those things would of been unmercifully shit on in a real ECW environment.

I suppose it's my own fault for believing that this would actually be a Heyman run subset and not just another Vince run "brand", but I did buy in to it, and last night totaly let me down.

[DeToxRox]

Yeah, it was kind of like that, though I would give ROH crowds more credit than that. It just seemed like they were reacting to what they thought they should rather than what they were knowledgable of.

The Big Show run in, The Rey/Sabu ending, The Sandman music, The screwjob finish, all those things would of been unmercifully shit on in a real ECW environment.

I suppose it's my own fault for believing that this would actually be a Heyman run subset and not just another Vince run "brand", but I did buy in to it, and last night totaly let me down.

Yeah

Also don't get me wrong, ROH is awesome, but the crowds there can be very holier than thou.

My main reason for still having hope for the new ECW is so I can see CM Punk, who is just the absolute man. Ever since I saw him with ROH in Detroit, I've been hooked as a huge fan.

[Desmond]

Yeah

Also don't get me wrong, ROH is awesome, but the crowds there can be very holier than thou.

My main reason for still having hope for the new ECW is so I can see CM Punk, who is just the absolute man. Ever since I saw him with ROH in Detroit, I've been hooked as a huge fan.

Punk is fuckin awesome. If they bring him up I do hope it's in ECW so at least he'll be away from the RAW mindset and be given at least a little latitude as to what he can do in the ring.

[DeToxRox]

Punk is fuckin awesome. If they bring him up I do hope it's in ECW so at least he'll be away from the RAW mindset and be given at least a little latitude as to what he can do in the ring.

Yup. I just wish they'd sign Colt Cabana too. I can see him being a definite star. Great wrestler and just amazingly funny.

[Desmond]

I forget which show it was on but I saw a Nigel Mcguiness/Colt Cabana match last year which was all fluff, a little chain wrestling and some goofy spots and it was just ten shades of awesome. He's the kind of guy that a secondary promotion (hint: TNA) should be building around.

[Maple Leafs]

Nothing to do with this, but are you having trouble getting onto the RWBL forums too?
Yeah, they've been down all night.

[JonInMiddleGA]

I love TNA, but I just wish they had more than an hour to work with. It makes the wrestlers seem too cardboard as far as their gimmicks and such. That isn't to say that I want it to become another WWE (or even close), but I think the "characters" could be more interesting.

While too much TNA in this thread might get me accused of threadjacking, I'm going to risk it since I think the ultimate fates of the new ECW & TNA are going to end up being pretty intertwined. (besides, I don't think there's enough pro wrestling folks around these parts to generate too much bitching about a sidebar). Anyhoo ...

I'm almost torn on the 1 hr vs 2 hr thing for TNA. They've increased the talk vs action ratio, cutting most episodes down to 3 matches or 4 at most since the change to the new timeslot. My fear is that 2 hours wouldn't improve the ratio of action to talk but rather that it would stay the same & I'm not at all sure there's enough decent mic skills there to support that much talking.

There's two basic groups of wrestlers in TNA - the old guys that are known from their work in other promotions & the younger guys who are known best for their work in TNA. The biggest challenge they've got with booking right now is how to handle not enough time for all the bodies, and subsequently trying to get the mix of the two parts of the roster right, and I'm not sure that they're hitting the mark with that at the moment.

I understand why the Sting/Jarrett/Steiner angle is running, heck I got a kick out of Sting's return and it was done pretty well IMO, but I'm not at all sure that they haven't given it too much time over the long haul. I believe there's room for other established names to be added over time, but I'm a little worried that they wouldn't be overdone a bit the same way.

Meanwhile there's a number of people that seem to be stuck on hold or in the wrong roles at the moment:
1) Samoa Joe is carrying around the X-Division title, the thing most identified with TNA ... but carrying it around is about all he's doing with it at the moment. I understand (and don't disagree with) why they're moving him away from that division, but I don't like the side effect of stagnating the X title.

2) Speaking of the X Division title, Styles & Daniels find themselves stuck in a program with AMW that hasn't given any indication of a title change forthcoming. The impending heel turn of The Naturals might be the catalyst to get the belts off Storm/Harris and onto faces for the Naturals to feud over the belts with but I'm not sure whether Styles/Daniels should be stuck in that loop at all & certainly not for too long. And what the heck to do with Storm & Harris if they're out of the tag title loop for any length of time? Both talented guys that could probably work singles but I think they might be better together than they could ever be apart.

3) Meanwhile, as AMW/Naturals/Styles-Daniels seem to be the tag title focus, the Dudleys & the James Gang (nee New Age Outlaws) are stuck in a feud that has them both playing faces while acting like heels. And neither team is anywhere near the tag titles which is questionable booking to me.

4) And, speaking again of the X Division, some of the most talented guys in the company can barely get any screen time much less any sort of angle (the piss poor idea of Nash vs Sabin not withstanding). Alex Shelly, Jay Lethal, Sonjay Dutt, Petey Williams, Johnny Devine, Matt Bentley all deserve a lot more time than they're getting lately. And the logjam gets a lot worse now that Senshi (TAFKA Low Ki) is wrapping up his committments in Japan.

5) Rumors have Team Canada being split soon, which makes a certain amount of sense I suppose. But I'm not sure what the heck they'll do with any of the guys outside of that gimmick either.

6) The one thing I believe has worked far better than expected has been the title reign of Christian Cage. He's been a very credible champ IMO, and resisting the urge to hotshot the title over to Abyss was one of the best decisions I've seen from a wrestling company in years. Cage has been exactly what the World Title needed at this point, a stable champion who has both represented the belt well and elevated himself by wearing it in the process. The list of potential challengers for the belt and whoever follows Cage bodes well for it too I think, with several of the aforementioned workers along with Rhino, Abyss, Killings, Raven (if he can get healthy), Monty Brown (if the rumors of backstage problems don't send him packing). That's a wealth of talent at the top of the card, more than enough for any promotion to work with for an extended period of time. In fact, maybe too much talent, which brings me to:

7) I'm starting to think that it's almost time for another title to be added to the TNA mix. There's at least ten guys who could justifably wear the top title in the company right now but in the current era of booking there's generally only one challenger posing a serious threat to a reigning champion at any given moment. Seems to me that there's a need for something else for some of the guys to fight over/for, a United States or IC level title, even something like the old ECW or NWA Television Title. Throw Bobby Roode into the mix along with the bottom half of the top contenders already discussed & you've opened up some more possibilities.

8) There's a good collection of lower midcard guys on the roster -- David Young, Cassidy Reilly, Eric Young, Simon Diamond, A1, Roderick Strong, Shark Boy -- all of them are skilled workers in various ways, all probably lack some element that could take them to upper midcard or beyond, but they're entertaining enough to deserve some time as well.

Y'know, I think I just talked myself into being an advocate for a second hour after all ... IF they'll use it to spread the spotlight around more instead of giving us more chitchat of questionable value.

Probably not the most organized post I've ever made, I'm a little scatter brained at the moment apparently, but maybe it wasn't too hard to follow as I jumped around all over the place.

[jbmagic]

ECW will be only one hour show too

[JonInMiddleGA]

I've had only limited looks at a lot of the ROH talent but ...

re: Colt Cabana -- just stinkin' brilliant. This guy deserves a much bigger stage than he's gotten to date. (And if you haven't seen it yet, watch him break up Bryan Danielson during a promo (mms://68.178.174.134/ROH/sVideo_recap_6_7_06.wmv) in the latest highlight video at www.rohvideos.com -- The promo itself isn't anything too unusual, but watching American Dragon fighting hard not to crack up at around the 1:30 mark was just a fun thing)

re: CM Punk -- I'm not quite as sold on him as some of you are, but he's an extremely talented guy both athletically & as a character. Definitely deserves a shot at bigger things in the business.

[JonInMiddleGA]

ECW will be only one hour show too

But I'm not sure that's a problem at the moment. The announced roster to date simply isn't all that deep.

[DeToxRox]

I've had only limited looks at a lot of the ROH talent but ...

re: Colt Cabana -- just stinkin' brilliant. This guy deserves a much bigger stage than he's gotten to date. (And if you haven't seen it yet, watch him break up Bryan Danielson during a promo (mms://68.178.174.134/ROH/sVideo_recap_6_7_06.wmv) in the latest highlight video at www.rohvideos.com -- The promo itself isn't anything too unusual, but watching American Dragon fighting hard not to crack up at around the 1:30 mark was just a fun thing)

re: CM Punk -- I'm not quite as sold on him as some of you are, but he's an extremely talented guy both athletically & as a character. Definitely deserves a shot at bigger things in the business.

Thanks for the link, Jon. Appreciated. I had heard something about this but seeing it is pretty awesome. Colt can work too, but he's so awesome with the crowd it's often overlooked.

[Terps]

C.M. Punk is very overrated.

[WVUFAN]

I loved the ECW crowd myself. I thought what they gave Cena was well-deserved. Cena is the most overrated WWF/E Champion since Hogan and does not deserve to be anywhere near close to a title.

[DeToxRox]

C.M. Punk is very overrated.

Maybe I'm partial but I find that CM Punk is vastly underrated, while Samoa Joe is the most overrated guy going. Joe is great, but he isn't God as hes portrayed.

Joe vs Kenta = Most overrated, overhyped match I've ever seen.

[Flasch186]

I disagree. The WWE or F for that matter is not and maybe will never be about who is the best wrestler, ever again. It is only about who is the best entertainer, which is a blend of many things, one of which is the ability to wrestle. He has good mic skills, he is passionate, good looking, athletic, satisfactorily able to wrestle, witty, etc. I have seen much worse hold the title, even for short reigns and for the fans to be so rabidly disdainful for him is stupid in my opinion for it is those very same fans that created the marketplace where the WWE attendences are up 5 straight quarters and so is their stock, which is quite a valid reflection of their popularity and their champs, to some extent.

[Schmidty]

Cena is the most overrated WWF/E Champion since Hogan and does not deserve to be anywhere near close to a title.

Hey, look son, an internet genius!!!!!!!!!!!

[saldana]

thought this article was rather interesting...especially the next to last line about US T-bills

http://money.cnn.com/2006/06/12/news/companies/wwe/index.htm?cnn=yes

[WVUFAN]

Hey, look son, an internet genius!!!!!!!!!!!

Say what you will, but there's a reason why Cena is getting booed heavily whereever he goes -- he's not entertaining to a majority of wrestling fans. Put the belt on Edge -- he can carry it well, plus he has talent on the mic and in the ring. Cena does neither well.

A good bit of wrestling fans dislike Cena.

[WVUFAN]

dola -- of course, unlike some of you on this thread, I found the atmosphere at last night's PPV compelling. It made the show the most entertaining wrestling PPV in quite a long time.

Hell, I even liked Cena on it, but he was a heel. Maybe a heel turn is in order.

[Schmidty]

Say what you will, but there's a reason why Cena is getting booed heavily whereever he goes

Yes. The order of the internet geniuses. I'm not saying people can't dislike him, but this whole thing is getting lame. I'm suprised you lemmings aren't all wearing nehru jackets while booing him. You guys are so hip and knowledgeable!!!

[Schmidty]

Honestly, I don't care if people don't like Cena if they REALLY don't like him, instead of all this "wrestling-smarts" garbage, or the mindless bandwagon garbage.

[Neon_Chaos]

Yes. The order of the internet geniuses. I'm not saying people can't dislike him, but this whole thing is getting lame. I'm suprised you lemmings aren't all wearing nehru jackets while booing him. You guys are so hip and knowledgeable!!!

Personally, I like the guy, and he really does know how to draw a crowd into a match.

I just don't like the whole "underdog" theme. The guy's held the title for 12+ months, save a couple of weeks. And he's supposed to be the underdog each time? The schtick just got really stale, really quick. And the 'E kept shoving him down the fans throats.

I'm glad the title's off him now. Gives him a fresh new start... make him more edgy and start chasing this time around.

[Schmidty]

I'm glad the title's off him now. Gives him a fresh new start... make him more edgy and start chasing this time around.

That's actually a very good point. Hopefully this will help his career.

[WVUFAN]

Yes. The order of the internet geniuses. I'm not saying people can't dislike him, but this whole thing is getting lame. I'm suprised you lemmings aren't all wearing nehru jackets while booing him. You guys are so hip and knowledgeable!!!

Since when have I said I'm an internet genius? I've not liked Cena from the start. I prefer quieter, more wrestling-oriented people like Benoit and Benjamin. My favorite wrestler currently is Kurt Angle.

But I never said I was an internet genius. I just know what I like and what I don't.

[molson]

Cena compels an audience - positively or negatively. That's why I think he'll be a major player for many years. His matches always feel like a big deal. I think the WWE has handled him perfectly - he's a huge babyface with the casual fans (and anywhere outside the Northeast), and he sells a TON of merchandise. Simulataneously, he can be a huge, monster heel at the ECW event in front of the cynical internet types (and in NYC, Philly). Best of both worlds. It's pretty similar to the Bret Hart US/Canada thing in 96-97.

[duckman]

I prefer quieter, more wrestling-oriented people like Benoit and Benjamin. My favorite wrestler currently is Kurt Angle.

The huge difference between Angle and Benoit or Benjamin is that Angle has charisma. Benoit and Benjamin both couldn't give a compelling statement with a gun pointed to their heads. Plus, Angle is far from quiet.

[WVUFAN]

The huge difference between Angle and Benoit or Benjamin is that Angle has charisma. Benoit and Benjamin both couldn't give a compelling statement with a gun pointed to their heads. Plus, Angle is far from quiet.

Agreed, but I enjoy watching wrestling more than the silly storylines. That's why I think I'll enjoy ECW more than WWE.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Cena compels an audience - positively or negatively.

Well, he certainly compelled Heyman's head right there (although the camera was a tad behind the shot)

Meanwhile, I guess they've decided to have a little fun with the "Sci-Fi wants an alien wrestler character" ... or at least I HOPE this is part of a gag.

[Schmidty]

I need to not read wrestling threads before the shows come on, since I live out west. :(

[JonInMiddleGA]

I need to not read wrestling threads before the shows come on, since I live out west. :(

If my comment was a spoiler for you it was unintentional. Actually I didn't really think about it. But I think I was vague enough that you haven't been hurt too badly, Cena's appearance was about as predictable as anything could have been & the alien reference alludes to something but doesn't say what actually happened.

[Neuqua]

purrty girl.

[Schmidty]

If my comment was a spoiler for you it was unintentional. Actually I didn't really think about it. But I think I was vague enough that you haven't been hurt too badly, Cena's appearance was about as predictable as anything could have been & the alien reference alludes to something but doesn't say what actually happened.

Actually, I guess it's actually on right now. I just turned it on, and some hooker was holding her tits.

It's obvious that this is just more of the same garbage.

My grandpa, the biggest wrestling fan I've ever known, would have said "Just wrestle, you jackasses. I gots me some Playboys. I don't need this shit".

Yes, he was a WW2 hero (to me) from the swamps of Polk County, FL. I miss him so much. :(

[SirFozzie]

well.. That was a huge amount of.. nothing.

[Maple Leafs]

Apparently the show wasn't live after all, after TV execs got worried about the profanity in the ECW crowd's chants. It will be interesting to see if the ECW fans really are smarter and tone down the chants because they know the TV show has to succeed, or whether they just like to shout four-letter words.

[Schmidty]

well.. That was a huge amount of.. nothing.

Yeah. I saw the last 20 minutes or so, and it was the worst wrestling show I've seen on TV since the early '90s.

[Desmond]

That was perhaps the saddest wrestling show i've seen since TNA gave us the Dupp cup and midgets masturbating in trash cans. VivalaECW!!!!

[TLK]

oh well.

[Maple Leafs]

So wait, they're taping ECW at the same show where they do the Smackdown tapings? Are they insane? They really think they can have rival "brands" but film both shows in front of the exact same crowd?

[SirFozzie]

Gimme TNA anyday. Sure it's got the talkies, but it also has you know, wrestling?

ECW is playing to the "Hardcore" crowd while forgetting it wasn't just hardcore that made it so huge. Rey/Psicosis. Eddie/Dean. Ring a bell, ECW?

[Schmidty]

I can only hope that ECW fans will realize how crappy their beloved wrestlers (and owner) were, and urge the WWE to end this pathetic charade of ALTERNATIVE WRESTLING (YEAH EXTREME)!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Desmond]

Apparently the show wasn't live after all, after TV execs got worried about the profanity in the ECW crowd's chants. It will be interesting to see if the ECW fans really are smarter and tone down the chants because they know the TV show has to succeed, or whether they just like to shout four-letter words.

Dude, there were about 10 ECW fans in the crowd. Execs were upset over Sundays chants, I have a feeling they needn't have been worried tonight. It was great hearing about 3 dudes yell at RVD to throw down the belt.

This is an unmitigated dissaster. LOL.

[Schmidty]

Gimme TNA anyday. Sure it's got the talkies, but it also has you know, wrestling?

ECW is playing to the "Hardcore" crowd while forgetting it wasn't just hardcore that made it so huge. Rey/Psicosis. Eddie/Dean. Ring a bell, ECW?

The only reason ECW was ever so popular was because it was small and branded itself as the underdog. Other than that (and more fake blood-letting), it was the same fucking thing.

I like the WWE because, other than the slut wrestling crap, it reminds me of my childhood, and I love TNA, because it reminds me of watching wrestling with my grandpa in Florida in the '80s and very early '90s. The ECW is, and always was, shit.

[Maple Leafs]

This is an unmitigated dissaster. LOL.
That's certianly the impression I'm getting from the sheet sites. (We don't get the show in Canada.)

[jbmagic]

I remember when NWO try to have there own show from wcw.

It didnt last long.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Well, Will was happy that Sabu won, I guess that's something.

Otherwise, I'm afraid the problem with ECW is just what I was afraid of (other than McMahon's fingerprints) -- the lack of depth on the current roster. I don't watch the WWE, could barely care less about them, but the Cena bit was about as compelling as anything they did all night. And that ain't good news.

I got a chuckle out of the nod-and-wink to the 'net with the parody characters for Sci-Fi, and it was mildly interesting to see Roadkill, Doring, Snow, and Credible, but otherwise ... meh.

And will somebody please tell Taz to cut back on the Schiavone-esque shilling? It's more than a little over the top and is already bordering on being cartoonish.

[Schmidty]

That's certianly the impression I'm getting from the sheet sites. (We don't get the show in Canada.)

Everything's better (other than your driving ability) in Canada. I think I should move there.

[Desmond]

The only reason ECW was ever so popular was because it was small and branded itself as the underdog. Other than that (and more fake blood-letting), it was the same fucking thing.

Are you insane?

[Schmidty]

I remember when NWO try to have there own show from wcw.

It didnt last long.

I long for the days of the original NWO. That was fun. To me.

[SirFozzie]

To use an old analogy by Mick Foley

WWF was the same thing. Clowns all the time.
WCW had wrestling, but the clowns were taking over
ECW had a little bit of everything. Humor. Real Wrestling. Brawling. Hardcore. Didn't like what was on your screen? Wait ten minutes, you'd like what's next.

At the end, ECW was basically a guy getting shot out of a cannon over and over.

[JonInMiddleGA]

(and more fake blood-letting)

Umm, while there were certainly a number of bladejobs, there was also a good bit of hardway blood in ECW.

I would agree that the passage of time has caused memories to fade on some of the lower moments and embellished the better moments, it was also often the best booked of any national fed ever. There was always a feeling that anything could actually happen, that anybody could lose, anybody could win & that hasn't been seen or felt very often in the past 20 years of wrestling (and possibly at all since the end of kayfabe).

[dubb93]

Honestly, I don't care if people don't like Cena if they REALLY don't like him, instead of all this "wrestling-smarts" garbage, or the mindless bandwagon garbage.

I don't watch wrestling anymore, but one of the major reasons for that is guys like Cena. I wish the companies now adays would build around people that actually can wrestle. I may be in the minority, but when I watched wrestling I watched it for the wrestling. I think todays "wrestling" has gotten very far away from that, however I don't think they are doing too bad for themselves without me watching;)

[Schmidty]

At the end, ECW was basically a guy getting shot out of a cannon over and over.

Thank you for describing the exact reason I hated ECW.

[Schmidty]

I don't watch wrestling anymore, but one of the major reasons for that is guys like Cena. I wish the companies now adays would build around people that actually can wrestle. I may be in the minority, but when I watched wrestling I watched it for the wrestling. I think todays "wrestling" has gotten very far away from that, however I don't think they are doing too bad for themselves without me watching;)

Watch TNA.

I like both styles, but I understand your point.

[Desmond]

ECW was popular because they presented a real and exciting alternative to what WWF and WCW were doing. They took from the past and the future the way no company had ever done. From Psycosis vs Mistero, Guerrero vs Malenko, Raven vs Dreamer, up and down the line they presented Lucha, Hardcore, mat based and classic NWA style main events.

If you think tonight was anything like the old ECW then I submit that just havn't watched enough or any old ECW.

Edit: You can't qualify it by saying "at the end" that's like me shitting on Harley Races legacy because Mike Awesome played "That 70's guy" at the end of WCW.

By the end of ECW they had no money, no creative vision and essentially ran the same shows over and over with garbage wrestling and midcard guys being pushed to the top.

In it's prime it was one of the most fantastic mix of matches and storytelling ever.

[Schmidty]

There was always a feeling that anything could actually happen, that anybody could lose, anybody could win & that hasn't been seen or felt very often in the past 20 years of wrestling (and possibly at all since the end of kayfabe).

That's actually a VERY good point Jon. Thanks for that. I still hated ECW, but it would be nice if we could see that kind of thing happen again.

But it won't because of huge contracts.

[Schmidty]

If you think tonight was anything like the old ECW then I submit that just havn't watched enough or any old ECW.

I hated the old ECW for what it was, and I hated tonight for what it foretells. The two are not the same thing, but I dislike them both.

What do I know though, I'm insane right?

[JonInMiddleGA]

I wish the companies now adays would build around people that actually can wrestle.

What Schmidty said, give TNA a try.

I admit in advance that I think they're a little off on the booking right now, that the product isn't as good as I think it could be, but there's still a decent amount of good wrestling amidst the occasional ill-advised chat chat.

[MikeVic]

But it won't because of huge contracts.

Before Samoa Joe went into the X-Division, I felt like anyone could be the X-Title holder at any given moment. I really enjoyed that aspect. Sure, you'd have the bigger stars (relatively to the others) like Styles and Daniels... but when Petey Williams won the title, I didn't think he would. Or Matt Bentley (Michael Shane)...

[Desmond]

I hated the old ECW for what it was, and I hated tonight for what it foretells. The two are not the same thing, but I dislike them both.

What do I know though, I'm insane right?

I dont know dude, if you didn't enjoy Jericho, Misterio, Benoit, Snow, Malenko, Psicosis, Scorpio putting on matches unincumbered and just doing their thing then that's your perogative, I just dont understand how someone couldn't enjoy those matches.

I think too many people think of ECW as all Sandman, New Jack and Dreamer doing hardcore spots. Also there were 2 distinctly different time periods, 1 when Heyman was overflowing creatively and one where he just didn't give two shits.

It's cool though, i didn't mean sound like a prick. I just don't see how tonight could seem to anyone anything remotely like the old ECW.

[JonInMiddleGA]

But it won't because of huge contracts.

Actually, I'm afraid we're probably more to blame for that than the contracts, or at least equally so :(

We simply know too much now to be surprised very often. It damages the product, or maybe more accurately the enjoyment of it, in a lot of ways but at the same time it's interesting in & of itself. We know what's a work, we sometimes know what's a shoot, we know who's coming in, we know who's going out, and we've watched long enough to know how those things influence the outcomes. We've learned to connect who is going to get a push or at least stick around with what we see new on the merchandise table. We've learned how to judge gimmicks by the pops they get or don't get, regardless of what we personally think of the gimmick we still know what's over & what isn't. We are "smarts" or "smart marks", which is symptomatic of a lot more things than just the negative reactions to things like John Cena's gimmick or his in-ring ability/lack thereof (YMMV).

The genie isn't going back in the bottle though, so I'm not sure there anything that can be done about it except the occasional chit-chat about it like this ... which is probably more interesting than 75% of the wrestling currently on television, so maybe there's some good from it after all ;)

[JonInMiddleGA]

It's cool though, i didn't mean sound like a prick. I just don't see how tonight could seem to anyone anything remotely like the old ECW.

I forgot to mention this earlier, but there was at least one thing tonight that reminded me of the old ECW: the camera work was seriously for shit. Several times they were behind the action, enough so that I think it was intentionally meant to look like the old days. The commercial for the upcoming live shows that ran about halfway through the show was also very reminisicent of the look used in the old ECW TV (pre-TNN).

[sabotai]

I long for the days of the original NWO. That was fun. To me.

For the first few months. When they started having NWO PPVs, referees and their own midcarders and jobbers....they just took it way too far. If they had left it at 5 or 6 people and kept the "invasion" angle going instead of the "promotion competition" angle, it would have been so much better.

[WVUFAN]

I think me and Schmidy are the two extremes(no pun intended) of what we like out of pro wrestling.

I enjoyed the old ECW for many of the reasons mentioned above, but mostly because it lacked much of the silly angle-driven crap that the WWE and especially WCW was putting out at the time. The crowds were CRAZY, and the whole atmosphere of the shows just felt more interesting than anything anyone else was putting out. Plus seeing Malenko and Guerrero putting out good technically-based matches and getting appreciated by the crowd for doing so made me feel good.

Conversely, I would watch the first part of WCW for the lucha/CW matches, and the rest of the stuff, ESPECIALLY the NWO nonsense, I left alone. I felt it was, quite frankly, stupid, and the gimmick were by three people (Hogan, Nash, Hall) that couldn't wrestle if they tried. Hall's days, for reasons apparently outside of wrestling, were long behind him. It was just boring, useless drivel that I couldn't stand.

Different strokes, though.

[saldana]

ok, so i tivo'd this show, and so far, it is the worst thing i have ever seen...the crowd sucks...the best part of old ecw crowds were the spontaneous and original chants, but these people at this show didnt even seem to care about the talent...i didnt even thing RVD got over well with them....15 minutes into the show, and i am wondering how long vince will let this crap go on...

[Deattribution]

The next "supernatural" style character you can expect to see in ECW will be a tarot card reading witch portrayed by Shelly Martinez as WWE filmed vignettes with her tonight in Trenton, New Jersey.

I can't wait :rolleyes:

[Neon_Chaos]

Alright. THIS IS WRONG.

ECW taped on a Smackdown crowd. IT WILL NOT WORK.

They need to tape to an exclusive ECW crowd... or this shit is going down the drain.

[Joe]

So wait, they're taping ECW at the same show where they do the Smackdown tapings? Are they insane? They really think they can have rival "brands" but film both shows in front of the exact same crowd?

they tape RAW and Smackdown together sometimes as well

[Pumpy Tudors]

Ever since WCCW lost its steam in the mid-'80s, the only wrestling I watched was ECW. I don't know anything about the stories that were going on, and I don't know which guys were good technical wrestlers or anything. I'm just not into wrestling enough to let those things grip me. I watched it because it was hilarious. I really felt like I didn't know what was going to happen in the ring, and I always got entertaining surprises.

For a guy like me, last night's ECW show was just stupid. My favorite part was The Zombie getting the shit kicked out of him by Sandman, and that's only because it was the most off-the-wall piece of crap I've seen in a long time. With the DVR, I kept rewinding to the beginning of the "match" when The Zombie starts doing his zombie walk and then got clocked with the cane. As stupid as the whole Zombie setup was, that one moment with the first cane hit was the kind of stuff that I liked about ECW. After that, it just got really, really bad. I'll probably watch the show again next week just to see if it's any better, but I'm not expecting much.

Last night did leave me with a couple of questions:
1. Has Tazz taken broadcasting lessons from Joey Styles? I couldn't tell which one of them was saying "OH MY GOD" over and over again. They were both doing it.

2. Does Kurt Angle always do this head-slapping thing? He jumped onto Justin Credible's back and just started slapping the back of Justin's head. That was the least masculine wrestling move I'd ever seen in my life. At that moment, I was not proud to be an American.

[Guelph Spartan]

First off, I sincerely hope that the first episode of ECW on Sci-Fi was just a test run, because I have nothing positive to say about it.

When looking back at what ECW was back in 1992-1999, it was Nirvana alternative to the glam rock of the WWF and WCW. ECW forced the WWF and WCW to change the way they did wrestling, sometimes for the better (the introduction of lucha stars), sometimes for the worse (anyone remember “hardcore Hak”). What I saw last night though, was anything but an alternative. It was the same crap we see every Monday and Friday from the WWE, with essentially the SAME PEOPLE! If there is one things Vince has proven to everybody is that he refuses to learn from his mistakes. With every passing week this ECW resembles more and more the “Invasion” ECW. If Stephanie shows up then I quit...

[Ryche]

Bringing Angle and TBS into the new ECW was a huge mistake. They would have been so much better off bringing in guys like Matt Hardy and Charlie Haas, guys who can wrestle but are not going anywhere in WWE, and mixing them in with the others they are using. Keep the big name guys away and take some time to develop it.

But instead of letting the attitude and skill sell the product, they're trying to hotshot it. Maybe that was necessary to get SciFi to pick up the show. But after Vengence, they need to have the products totally separate or it has no chance.

[Terps]

Alright. THIS IS WRONG.

ECW taped on a Smackdown crowd. IT WILL NOT WORK.

They need to tape to an exclusive ECW crowd... or this shit is going down the drain.

Agreed. It's not going to work without an ECW crowd. RVD got booed when he came out because it was a WWE crowd. But, ECW is going to be lumped with the Smackdown taping through July at least.

Maybe it would've been better had they put them on after the Smackdown taping and not before. That way the WWE fans can leave and the ECW fans can stay.

It wasn't a very good show though. I'm not going to like the running joke of characters like the zombie (played by some OVW guy), and the vampire standing outside the arena (played by the former WWE wrestler Mordecai.) Although, that's probably the same way they'll bring Gangrel in. With the WWE talent on the show, it makes it just seem like another brand extension.

[Schmidty]

or this shit is going down the drain.

It's definitely shit, and I hope it gets flushed soon, regardless of the crowd's make-up.

[saldana]

2. Does Kurt Angle always do this head-slapping thing? He jumped onto Justin Credible's back and just started slapping the back of Justin's head. That was the least masculine wrestling move I'd ever seen in my life. At that moment, I was not proud to be an American.

apparently you havent seen norman smiley or golddust recently

[Terps]

http://www.wwe.com/shows/ecw/ecwphotos/514.jpg

[JonInMiddleGA]

Pretty good spoof of the sci-fi & wrestling possibilities here:
http://www.thewrestlingfan.com/ecwscifi.html

Meanwhile, the reviews from last night are suitably brutal. Here's one of my favorites so far from http://www.pwtorch.com/artman/publish/article_17073.shtml

Let’s do a quick review: WWE main-eventers interrupt the opening segment. Some blonde chick promises to strip. Kurt Angle, WWE beats a former ECW Heavyweight Champion with ease. Then a f****ing Zombie appears and is canned to um, death I guess, I mean it is a zombie after all. Then the blonde girl promises to strip again. Then she sort of does and then walks off. Finally a Battle Royal takes place where no one does much of anything but stand around hitting each other with metal objects while the seven foot Big Show is setup to look like a big loser. Oh man this got off to a bad start. Oh I forgot vampires, Sci-Fi did get their vampires.

Meanwhile The first episode of ECW on Sci Fi dre a 2.7 rating with a 2.6 in the male 18-49 demo and a 3.1 in the 18-34 demo with an average audience of 3.4 million. That's around triple what TNA has been getting on Spike.

[duckman]

Here is what PWInsider is saying about the creative aspect of the show:

As reported, Paul Heyman did write the ECW show for last night but it ended up being heavily tweaked by Vince McMahon and Kevin Dunn. Word is that Heyman and McMahon & Dunn had fights about certain things with McMahon & Dunn winning out.

What's the point of Heyman writing the damn show if Vince is going to "tweak" it? :mad:

[saldana]

5 bucks says vince wrote the zombie angle.


and can someone teach the stupid hot girl how to undo her bra...she spend about 5 minutes trying to get the hook undone and still never got it off...i can work one of those things in about 2 seconds.

[Toddzilla]

ZOMG - that was probably the worst wrestling show I have EVER seen, and I've seen just about all of them.

[Neon_Chaos]

5 bucks says vince wrote the zombie angle.


From what I've read, it was Paul's idea. He wanted to make a satiric/comedic segment, using an alien and having him get beaten up by The Sandman.

Apparently, Sci-Fi didn't want an alien beaten up on their show, and Vince had it changed into a zombie.

We all know how THAT went.