Pro Wrestling Discussion Thread **Spoilers Possible**

[Desmond]

Can't talk a lick? WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAT?

[wade moore]

wade - Somewhere up the thread a few pages should be a link to a blog/column/something that explained the some of the backstory behind the angle & how it was being portrayed as a shoot instead of a work.

DeTox is right that it seems kind of hard to explain without reading how they set it up. It's questionable, IMO, because of some of the recent events in real life but right now I'm getting more of a "this is stupid" vibe than a "this is so wrong" vibe. Might be the first serious misstep I can recall from ROH storytelling, and might be poorly timed considering they're now available nationally.

I gotcha. I used to be pretty into WCW then WWE a bit, but have been out of it for awhile and just check this thread now and then - so yeah, i'll have to read up...

[Desmond]

Jimmy Jacobs as a clockwork orange esque emo cult leader with Necro Butcher as his enforcer is so verily awesome.

[General Mike]

And in news that probably no one cares about, Marcus Cor Von/Monty Brown was released this by WWE.

Poor guy has the look to some extent but can't talk a lick and hasn't improved in the ring one bit in several years. I can't help but think that's related to a lack of work ethic rather than having topped out his potential.

Part of Brown's problem was that he just didn't wrestle enough to get better. When he was in TNA he made more money in his other job as a personal trainer than he would make working indy dates, so there was no reason for him to get those extra matches in. When he was in WWE, he was working the house shows, but with who? There is no one on the ECW roster that you can really learn how to work from. In WWE period, there isn't really anyone wrestling currently that is gonna teach you alot.

[Desmond]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1uP-vqklHY

Guys got more natural charisma than most anyone in the biz today.

[DeToxRox]

Jimmy Jacobs as a clockwork orange esque emo cult leader with Necro Butcher as his enforcer is so verily awesome.

QFT. Next ROH PPV is in Jersey, you going?

[JonInMiddleGA]

Guys got more natural charisma than most anyone in the biz today.

I was so expecting that to be a link to a Colt Cabana video.
Or a Larry Sweeney video.
Or even a Delerious video.

[DeToxRox]

I was so expecting that to be a link to a Colt Cabana video.
Or a Larry Sweeney video.
Or even a Delerious video.

Colt vs Sweeny vs Delirious .. look for it on youtube .. its a Chris Candido tribute match for IWA-MS. Totally fucking priceless.

[DeToxRox]

Not sure on the credibility but a lot of people say this guy is legit ..

-- Widley known wrestling journalist Irvin Muchnick posted a blog on his web site in which he claims to have spoken with a number of WWE sources who say that Randy Orton had recently attempted suicide.




A rumor is swirling that World Wrestling Entertainment star Randy Orton attempted suicide within the last year. Very well-placed wrestling sources tell me that the rumor is true. In the wake of the June murder-suicide of Chris Benoit and the scandal involving scads of WWE performers who ordered steroids and human growth hormone from the Internet gray-market dealer Signature Pharmacy, this is serious stuff.

It’s already clear that WWE’s response to the Signature revelations — generated by the district attorney in Albany, New York, and reported by Sports Illustrated and others — is a joke. Some vague number of the miscreant wrestlers, not named, were “suspended,” but the suspension appears to have consisted of simply being downgraded for a few weeks in TV storylines.

From the same evidence, Randy Orton was not touched at all. That is more than a little strange. Orton’s Signature Pharmacy order marked, at the very least, his second “strike” under WWE’s so-called wellness policy, which would have called for a 60-day (rather than a 30-day) suspension.

The suicide whispers mark the problem as more than a game of “gotcha” or even taste (Orton acquired the gimmick “Legend Killer” after WWE blithely turned Eddie Guerrero’s 2005 death into just another “angle”). It’s a matter of life and death.

Orton, 27, is a third-generation wrestler. He is engaged to marry Samantha Speno, a part-time gymnastics teacher, this fall. Last year Randy and Samantha moved into a country-club estate in High Ridge, Missouri (suburban St. Louis), complete with a gym, a hot tub, and four decks.

Over to you, WWE.

[DeToxRox]

Ditto .. Meltzer apparently mentioned something about it today

[General Mike]

Muchnick was on Figure 4 Daily today, but I haven't downloaded it yet.

[Neon_Chaos]

The suicide whispers mark the problem as more than a game of “gotcha” or even taste (Orton acquired the gimmick “Legend Killer” after WWE blithely turned Eddie Guerrero’s 2005 death into just another “angle”). It’s a matter of life and death.

Uninformed and completely stupid assumption. He donned the "Legend Killer" monicker in 2003, and Eddie died in 2005.

[Desmond]

I was so expecting that to be a link to a Colt Cabana video.
Or a Larry Sweeney video.
Or even a Delerious video.

And those guys are awesome as well. But to say that Brown is bad on the stick is just wrong. Granted he has a tendency to ramble and to lose himself but that's part of his charm.

I forget the name of the show, but the TNA PPV where there was a small fire and they evacuated the building for a short time, and they sent Brown out to just riff for like 5 minutes was one the most awesome things i've ever seen.



QFT. Next ROH PPV is in Jersey, you going?

Not likely. Nobody i run with has much interest in it and I just don't dig on going solo. My best "wrestling friend" is a huge HHH mark, so you can see where my problem lies.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Granted he has a tendency to ramble and to lose himself but that's part of his charm.

This is definitely one of those cases where we'll have to agree to disagree. There's nothing in his schtick, even when he hits what he intends to say, that does anything to get him over at this point. Most of his promos were barely coherent during at least the last six months of his TNA run, his catchphrases were more like punchlines, and it had reached the point where I thought they might be sending him out more as a comedy act than anything that was supposed to be taken seriously (suspension of disbelief aside).

[Toddzilla]

I don't get it, what's supposedly so bad?after watching it, I find myself asking the same question. This is maybe a 4 out of 10 in the "holy crap, I can't believe someone let that happen" scale.

However, the image of Brisco hanging upside down 10 feet above the ring while Jacobs cuts a promo in a long white jacket standing directly under Brisco, bleeding all over Jacobs was pretty inspired - very "Heyman-esque".

[JonInMiddleGA]

Nice to see (although kind of weird) Nash putting Sting over in a segment with the Angles.

Just sounded kind of weird to hear that sort of thing from Nash (who looks like he's lost 50 pounds).

[General Mike]

From Figure 4 Weekly, the week before last:

TNA Something Or Other

I really thought this show was "Hard Justice." Honest to God. Like it matters.

My issue was this show was the issue I have with TNA every month it seems, and that is its great tragedy of having to make life difficult for everyone involved. If you took out all the bullshit and just concentrated on the bell-to-bell in-ring action, this was a really good show. Unfortunately, it's impossible to ignore all the bullshit.

With TNA officially going to two hours on October 4th (9-11 PM on Spike), a punishment if I've ever heard one, I hereby respectfully call for the following people to be fired from TNA, or at least moved to other areas of the company where preferably they have no input whatsoever into the product. This is for the good of the company, and thus the good of the wrestling business.

1. Vince Russo. Gotta go. As in, right now, immediately, before another show is taped. I have been watching Vince Russo's wrestling product since the mid-90s. I watched every single solitary Raw he had input in, I watched every single WCW show he had input in, and I've watched every single TNA show since their inception five years ago, which personally I feel I should be awarded some sort of medal for. Vince Russo's influence on the TNA product, regardless of what anyone says, has stepped up dramatically in the last two months and it is for the worst. Impact has become completely, totally unwatchable 95% of the time. I have determined that it is, no joke, the single worst television show I've ever seen in my life. It fails on every conceivable level. It's not entertaining, it almost never features any good wrestling, the angles often make absolutely no sense, its skits are embarrassing, they haven't created a single star, it is not leading to more people watching the product and it is not leading to more people buying pay-per-views. It is like watching the worst of Russo in WCW all over again, though somehow it doesn't even have the comedy factor that Nitro and Thunder had at the end. It is pure shit.

2. Jeff Jarrett. For not understanding that Vince Russo is a failure after all these years, and for not having learned a goddamn thing from the death of WCW.

3. Dutch Mantell. Probably the lesser of the three evils, but still, one-third of what has to be the most inept booking committee I have ever seen. It is inconceivable that any other three humans on the planet Earth could create a worse wrestling program.

4. David Sahadi. The worst director there has ever been, and this includes Ed Wood who died decades ago and is still revered today because there was a charm to the horrible shit he produced. Sahadi's video packages in WWE were awesome. His promos early on in TNA were awesome. Now, they're all the same. "Dramatic" packages with the guy (Sahadi) who has the Darth Vader voice, over and over again for every feud on every show. As the man in charge of directing TV and live PPV, he sets new standards. He misses finishes (including Pacman Jones actually winning the belts, which takes an immense amount of incompetence, and the finish to the main event), he misses awesome highspots, he provides us with random crowd shots at inappropriate moments, and he switches the cameras with such frequency that it causes nausea. Worse than useless, because at least useless would not be detrimental to the enjoyment of the product.

5. Mike Tenay and Don West. God bless Mike Tenay. He used to be so great. Now, for whatever reason, he's a shill for the company and his constant screaming and talking over people while they're doing interviews hurts the product. When Jim Mitchell is telling us that his son is coming, we don't need Mike Tenay explaining to us what Jim Mitchell is saying AS he's saying it. I guarantee Jim Mitchell is doing a better job. And God bless Don West, but he's worse than a parody of himself. He was endearing early on as the clueless guy with the enthusiasm, but it's been five years. He is portrayed as the single dumbest person on the Earth (he's the only one who was surprised that Karen Angle turned on Joe, for example) and he gets dumber by the show. I realize this is probably not his fault. I realize that both guys are probably directed to do what they do. But the problem is that their credibility is zero right now due to months and years of being portrayed this way, and I don't think that can be easily remedied. Time for a new crew.

That's the list. If a compromise is needed and only half the people are to be fired, I'll be fine with Russo, Jarrett and Dutch. I'm not going to sit here and throw out replacement names and suggestions as people have done in the past. I seriously don't care. As noted, I would be fine with ANYONE IN THE WORLD replacing them. Sonjay Dutt, Tomko and Scott Steiner I guarantee would be a better writing crew, and you can insert any three random names that you'd like. It's not about who could do better, because anyone could. The bottom line is that these three men are proven failures in their roles and thus need to be replaced.

[Flasch186]

who writes that?

[General Mike]

who writes that?

Bryan Alvarez

[molson]

http://video.tinypic.com/player.php?v=102mkqo&s=2

Anybody catch this on RAW last night? A promo for....something. People with a lot of time on their hands have isolated and slowed down the audio and have apparently heard "break the walls down" twice, so speculation is that it has something to do with Jericho. Also, someone pointed out that that the WWE's 222nd all-time PPV is coming up in a few months (the number 222 is featured prominently)

[General Mike]

http://video.tinypic.com/player.php?v=102mkqo&s=2

Anybody catch this on RAW last night? A promo for....something. People with a lot of time on their hands have isolated and slowed down the audio and have apparently heard "break the walls down" twice, so speculation is that it has something to do with Jericho. Also, someone pointed out that that the WWE's 222nd all-time PPV is coming up in a few months (the number 222 is featured prominently)

I saw it, but had no clue what to make of it at the time.

Here is some other stuff people saw in it, I guess. I really don't know.

CHAMP_HARD
SMACK_BROUGHT1
RAW_LOWER_DISP
CD_VOLUME4_1 (WWE Music Volume 4 CD - First Track = "Break the Walls Down" )
RAW_WAR_BUMPER
WM99_MATCH
WM00_MATCH
WM99_PROMO
SURVIVOR_RF
LIVEWIRE (A song made by Fozzy)
TALENT_PRE
BAT_ASS_WEEK
JVC_FIX (former sponsor)

[Neon_Chaos]

It's most likely Chris Jericho.

Also saw:

Save_Us.222

[Neon_Chaos]

John Cena Possibly Injured at Raw
Posted by Larry Csonka (http://www.411mania.com/user_profile.php?user_id=399) on 10.02.2007

A possible bad injury for John Cena.

Details are not for certain right now, but John <nobr>Cenahttp://images.intellitxt.com/ast/adTypes/2.gif</nobr> (http://www.411mania.com/wrestling/news/60793/John-Cena-Possibly-Injured-at-Raw.htm#) looks to have suffered a possible torn right pectoral muscle during his match against Ken Kennedy. Cena is scheduled to undergo a MRI tomorrow to examine the severity of the injury. If he has a torn pectoral, he could be gone for several months to recover. The injury appeared to happen during a hip toss on Kennedy that ended oddly with Kennedy landing on top of Cena. Cena then nailed an arm drag and the two ended up in the corner. Cena backed up to the opposite corner and was obviously favoring his arm immediately. Cena did go through with the after match angle with Randy <nobr>Ortonhttp://images.intellitxt.com/ast/adTypes/2.gif</nobr> (http://www.411mania.com/wrestling/news/60793/John-Cena-Possibly-Injured-at-Raw.htm#) while in severe pain.

Cena is scheduled to main event the No Mercy PPV against Randy Orton.

Credit: Pwinsider.com

Update on John Cena
Posted by Larry Csonka (http://www.411mania.com/user_profile.php?user_id=399) on 10.02.2007

It still isn’t looking good.

The <nobr>WWEhttp://images.intellitxt.com/ast/adTypes/2.gif</nobr> (http://www.411mania.com/wrestling/news/60797/Update-on-John-Cena.htm#) is proceeding as if John <nobr>Cenahttp://images.intellitxt.com/ast/adTypes/2.gif</nobr> (http://www.411mania.com/wrestling/news/60797/Update-on-John-Cena.htm#) does indeed have a right pectoral tear. There is a ton of concern internally as Cena has been the man for the last year, and many look at him as the "MVP" of the company. Cena is currently headed to Birmingham, Alabama to have his injury examined and diagnosed by Dr. James Andrews. After Dr. Andrews makes the final diagnosis, WWE will move on from there with their Sunday No Mercy PPV plans, which are now in jeopardy.

Credit: Pwinsider.com


BAM.

[Maple Leafs]

Wow, yet another WWE performer suffers a serious muscle tear. They have the worst luck with that stuff.

[Neon_Chaos]

Any chance they hotshot Kennedy as a face? :P

Randy Orton vs. MISSSSSSTTTTTTTTTTTTTEEEERRRRRRRR KENNNNNNNNNNNEEEEEDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!

Hopefully. Lol.

[Maple Leafs]

In the last month, Kennedy has:
- embarassed the company by speaking out about there being no steroid problem, then getting busted for steroids
- been suspended, ruining their big "Mr. McMahon's son" angle
- injured their biggest draw in his first match back by blowing a simple hip toss spot

I'm guessing they don't really want to boost him into the main event right now.

[Neon_Chaos]

In the last month, Kennedy has:
- embarassed the company by speaking out about there being no steroid problem, then getting busted for steroids
- been suspended, ruining their big "Mr. McMahon's son" angle
- injured their biggest draw in his first match back by blowing a simple hip toss spot

I'm guessing they don't really want to boost him into the main event right now.

KENNEDY!

[JonInMiddleGA]

I'm guessing they don't really want to boost him into the main event right now.

Yet, in spite of all those things, he's still the most elevatable guy on the roster I can think of at the moment.

[Neon_Chaos]

Yet, in spite of all those things, he's still the most elevatable guy on the roster I can think of at the moment.

Aside from Triple H, Kennedy is the only guy capable of being hotshotted into the main event. Of course, the H's are tied up with the Umaga match.

Unless they decide to move Rey Mysterio or The Undertaker from Smackdown to RAW.

OR

They could bring back Jericho waaaaay too early.

[JonInMiddleGA]

They could bring back Jericho waaaaay too early.

Current rumors seem to be pointing to this Sunday.

[Toddzilla]

KENNEDY!KEEEEEEEEEEN-NEEEEEEEEEEE-DYYYYYYYYYYYYYY

[molson]

The one positive the WWE has is the advertised gimmick for the Orton/Cena main event, and the nature of the feud. Even if he's going to be out for a while, it might be possible that like Taker a few months ago, he could gut out one hardcore brawl-type match to drop the title to Orton. If word gets out on the internet, you might even pop a better buyrate with the smarks paying to see him lose.

The much-maligned brand split has actually helped the company a ton though these injuries. Pre-brand split, the company would usually have only around 3-4 main eventers at a time that could main event PPVs. With that split, that number's more like 8-9 now, even with the injuries.

[Maple Leafs]

Aside from Triple H, Kennedy is the only guy capable of being hotshotted into the main event. Of course, the H's are tied up with the Umaga match.
I would assume Cena will be in the PPV. Even if he's extremely limited, they have to let him get in there unless he's risking permanent damage.

As for who the next main eventer could be, why not Jeff Hardy? I've never been a huge fan, but he gets a huge pop every time he shows up. If he's clean again (big if, I guess) he'd be a guy who could have a short run to freshen things up.

[DeToxRox]

Hes being stripped of the title at No Mercy and a new Main Event will take place/

[molson]

Hes being stripped of the title at No Mercy and a new Main Event will take place/

Shit. New main event meaning Orton v. someone else, or a battle royal or something?

[molson]

Maybe they'll do one of those 6-ways like at Judgement Day. Just throw in the HHH/Umaga match into that, maybe fly in Mick Foley again.

Edit: WWE says he's gone 6-8 months.

[DeToxRox]

Shit. New main event meaning Orton v. someone else, or a battle royal or something?

No one knows and truthfully I doubt WWE knows.

Also, Edge is officially announced to return at Survivor Series.

[DeToxRox]

A battle royal similiar to when Angle won the World Title last year makes senses with someone like Jericho or even a guy from SD like Matt Hardy coming over to win it.

[molson]

PWTorch says the rumor is Orton v. HHH v. Umaga, which makes a lot of sense.

I think Orton ends up with it, and that was the plan for No Mercy even before Cena got injured.

[DeToxRox]

PWTorch says the rumor is Orton v. HHH v. Umaga, which makes a lot of sense.

I think Orton ends up with it, and that was the plan for No Mercy even before Cena got injured.

And once Orton gets it, he'll lose it to Triple H by Royal Rumble

[Neon_Chaos]

The good thing about this is that they could play up Orton absolutely destroying John Cena with the steel steps last night. Momentum and the ball is now in Orton's hands.

[Maple Leafs]

I assume they'll play this up as Cena getting hurt from the Orton attack, not from throwing a hip toss in the Kennedy match.

If so, that actually gives them a decent program for his return that could make them some money.

[Deattribution]

I think they should change Kennedy's finisher to a hiptoss and name it The Destroyer.

[Neon_Chaos]

Vinnie Mac just vacated the WWE title on ECW. They showed how Orton dismantled Cena, and announced that he would be gone for 6 months to a year (big boos from the crowd).

McMahon says that a new champion will be decided at No Mercy and history will be made.

Interesting.

[DeToxRox]

WPXI in Pittsburgh is reporting that TNA champion Kurt Angle was arrested last Friday in Moon Township, PA on a DUI charge. After getting a report of an erratic driver that matched Angle and his vehicle, police went to his home. The story stated that Angle admitted driving his car home from a local bar. They said that Angle failed a field sobriety test but refused a blood test. Angle was the charged with driving under the influence and careless driving.

[PilotMan]

On a totally different note, I worked with Malia Hosaka today. The name didn't ring a bell at all, but after talking with her and reading her bio, I was impressed. You would never, ever guess that she had a whole other life. Very cool.

[Flasch186]

On a totally different note, I worked with Malia Hosaka today. The name didn't ring a bell at all, but after talking with her and reading her bio, I was impressed. You would never, ever guess that she had a whole other life. Very cool.

what do you do, so you had the pleasure of working with such a hottie?

[PilotMan]

what do you do, so you had the pleasure of working with such a hottie?


I am an airline pilot. It sounds more fun than it has been the past few years.

[molson]

Flasch asked PilotMan what he does for a living. Awseome.

[JonInMiddleGA]

A nice little intro package to begin the two hour era of TNA Impact. And after all that build up about heart, people who wouldn't quit, people who gave their all through the five year struggle, what's the first thing viewers see?

Dustin Rhodes.

Sigh.

[Neon_Chaos]

It's actually shaped up to be a very entertaining Impact.

Love Angle doing the ESPN shit. :)

[Maple Leafs]

Hey Jon, Flasch would like to know what area of Georgia you live in.

[Neon_Chaos]

Very very good Impact, IMO. What a way to start off 2 hours' worth of TV every week. :) Quite a refreshing change from the WWE's shows.

[DeToxRox]

Meh. Main Event was okay but that was nothing more then Raw in my eyes. Lot's of awful segments that dragged and considering the talent, a lot of underwhelming matches.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Hey Jon, Flasch would like to know what area of Georgia you live in.

Northeast, of course.
:D

[JonInMiddleGA]

Meh. Main Event was okay but that was nothing more then Raw in my eyes. Lot's of awful segments that dragged and considering the talent, a lot of underwhelming matches.

I'm somewhere in between this and the other end of things.

I could have gone an entire lifetime without the Angle angle. Ditto for Pacman
and the Leticia/Generic Other Chick argument.

But the gauntlet was pretty good at times, as was the main event. And we didn't have to endure Karen Angle this week IIRC.

So basically it was about one good hour worth of TV.

[General Mike]

TNA went from trying to fit 84 minutes of action into 42 minutes to putting 168 minutes into 84.

[Toddzilla]

TNA went from trying to fit 84 minutes of horseshit into 42 minutes to putting 168 minutes into 84.fixed that for ya

[Flasch186]

so what exactly does Duckman do? ;)

[General Mike]

so what exactly does Duckman do? ;)

Private Investigator

[AlexB]

Private Investigator

nice http://www.operationsports.com/fofc/images/icons/icon14.gif

[duckman]

I'm actually a serial killer that picks his victims from message boards. What's your address, Flasch? ;)

[AZSpeechCoach]

Oooohhh ooooohhhh...guess my job next, Flasch!

[SirFozzie]

Ok.. this is the most bizarre thing that I've seen in wrestling for a while.

Apparently one of the women's organizations in Japan has been training the next generations of workers early. How early? They're putting on matches between 13 year olds. And I have to admit, the level of skill shown by these girls puts about 3/4ths of the indy wrestlers in America to shame.. but still it seems kinda wrong..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OCt_0KaCuCM

[Flasch186]

Gastrointestinal doctor?

[Neon_Chaos]

Orton is awarded the belt at the top of the PPV.

TITLE MATCH next, as HHH challenges.

HHH WINS the belt.

So the WWE title switches hands twice in one night, and it's not over yet.

[DeToxRox]

Orton is awarded the belt at the top of the PPV.

TITLE MATCH next, as HHH challenges.

HHH WINS the belt.

So the WWE title switches hands twice in one night, and it's not over yet.

Before people bitch .. it was obvious this was going to happen.

[Neon_Chaos]

Before people bitch .. it was obvious this was going to happen.

It's the safe business move.

The night is still young, though. Anything can happen.

[molson]

HHH is hugely over, and hasn't had a world title in 2 1/2 years.

Still, odd that they would do that off the bat, after this show was largely sold as a "mystery WWE title match" event.

The night's not over indeed - but does the Punjabi Prison Match HAVE to be last, with all the time it might take to tear it down?

[Neon_Chaos]

And HHH defends the title against Umaga.

So, we have Orton given the title, HHH win the title, and then HHH defend the title all in one night.

[DeToxRox]

HHH vs Orton tonight, Last Man Standing .. yes apparently the third defense of the night.

[Neon_Chaos]

Jesus christ. Are they treating this like a toy? :D

[Deattribution]

Before people bitch .. it was obvious this was going to happen.

I think that's the reason people would bitch - everything they do is obvious and predictable.

[DeToxRox]

I think that's the reason people would bitch - everything they do is obvious and predictable.

Exactly so there hopes shouldn't be up.

[DeToxRox]

Apparently Orton wins the belt clean and the show ends. No Save_US. Nothing.

[hoosierdude]

Well I have to say I am surprised, HHH giving the belt up. :) There isn't anyone else to hold it right now either HHH or Orton. I was hoping they would wait for Jericho just a little longer... glad to see he didnt come.

[molson]

I wonder if the people complaining actually watched the show, or if they're just pissed that Jericho wasn't there (even though he wasn't advertised, and they haven't even announced he's back with the company).

The main event was a great match.

[Toddzilla]

A guy recapping for the Torch said the title switches were probably just to increase the number of times Hunter has held the title, so he can eventually pass Flair. Feh.

[hoosierdude]

Flair is a legend, and HHH will never be able to match Rick's long storied career. The guy is a good wrestler, but, I don't think he would have the run he has if he wasn't married to Stephanie.

I just believe Rick carried a huge load all his career until the late 90's when WCW fell. He sold out arenas and small towns, and even if Hogan had a flashier run at WWF, Flair did it the match by match all over the country.

I think HHH is a great Heel. I just don't think he is a guy that can carry a company like others from the old NWA territories. Backlund, Flair, Rhodes, Von Erichs, Freebirds, Steamboat, etc....so many wrestlers... so little time. :)

[molson]

A guy recapping for the Torch said the title switches were probably just to increase the number of times Hunter has held the title, so he can eventually pass Flair. Feh.

I'm sure that's part if it (though you gotta love the torch watching something, speculating, and then reporting it as news on their website), but the other issue is that you have a PPV with a main event that was going to have zero build whatsoever. Typically, a main event storyline has been built for AT LEAST 6 weeks, usually longer. (Orton/Cena had been built for more than three months). Here, they could have just thrown two (or more) guys into the main event, or they could have made some attempt to build up a storyline over the course of 3 hours. They went for the latter.

[Neon_Chaos]

Singing Santino is the greatest thing ever on RAW.

:D

[Neon_Chaos]

SHAAAAAAAAWWWWWWWWWNNNNN MICHAAAAAAAAAAAEELLLLLLLSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


MOTHER FUCKER!!!!!

[Neon_Chaos]

He's looks fruity with that cowboy hat and vest though. :)

[Neon_Chaos]

Oh my. That was a fun RAW. :) Wow. Nice. :D

[JonInMiddleGA]

Okay, this is bad.

Last night, coming off a PPV even, Raw posted the lowest rating it's had in 10 YEARS, a 2.8 cable rating. The last time so few people watched, Austin was throwing Rock's Intercontinental title into the river in December '97.

And since Smackdown did a 2.5 broadcast rating (larger universe than cable) that means more people watched Smackdown last Friday than watched the flagship last night.

If Jericho doesn't pull the numbers up (since he's reportedly a specific request by USA), things may start to get awfully tense around the office.

Here's the link to Scherer's article on PW Insider
http://pwinsider.com/ViewArticle.asp?id=26982&p=1

Meanwhile, that same article notes that AM Raw (the Saturday morning recap show) did a 0.8 cable rating this past weekend and that's not too danged shabby considered TNA still can't beat a 1.2 in primetime and has recently dipped back down to around a 1.0 and even into a 0.9 for some quarter-hours for last week's two hour debut. Also worth noting, IMO, from the TNA ratings is that their highest rated demographic cell is still M12-17, almost 25% higher than their M18-34 rating.

What it suggests to me, based on this partial data, is that wrestling may be drifting back toward having middle school & high school viewers as the core again, much like the Rock N' Wrestling era in spite of a very different product. I've seen this in my own household so it isn't a totally foreign idea to me, but it is a little surprising that the it may not be such an isolated thing as I would have thought. What I've been seeing at local indies would also match up to that possibility, as the audiences are getting younger & younger in the past year or so.

[Deattribution]

I actually hope it continues to go down for a few more weeks until they decide to really shake things up and not just pretend to change things for the shake of a ratings pop.

Just bringing in Jericho won't be enough if he just ends up being an eventual job boy for HHH, HBK and Orton.

[Maple Leafs]

Wow, that rating is terrible.

People must be really mad that HHH didn't keep the belt.

&lt;/wwe thinking&gt;

[molson]

What it suggests to me, based on this partial data, is that wrestling may be drifting back toward having middle school & high school viewers as the core again, much like the Rock N' Wrestling era in spite of a very different product. I've seen this in my own household so it isn't a totally foreign idea to me, but it is a little surprising that the it may not be such an isolated thing as I would have thought. What I've been seeing at local indies would also match up to that possibility, as the audiences are getting younger & younger in the past year or so.

Could be. The thing about wrestling is that overall rating numbers are largely meaningless (except for morale, etc). Wrestling works well on TV because it attracts a demo that is otherwise difficult to get consistently (young males). Raw ads are sold, I would guess, pretty much exclusively on that young male demo (though those numbers are never reported - it's logical that they're declining too, of course).

So if they're striking out with a more mainstream audience, it makes perfect sense to focus on their old niche again. 16-year olds aren't going to watch much else on network prime time.

[JonInMiddleGA]

A couple of things I found interesting on PWI today.

Looks like Teddy Hart is abruptly gone from the WWE (no explanation yet) and with his departure so ends the New Hart Family angle that was believed by many to be just weeks away from starting.

http://pwinsider.com/ViewArticle.asp?id=27007&p=1

And although I personally despise the sumbitch so much that I rarely read his opinion stuff anymore, this might be the best column I ever recall Mike Johnson writing.
I don't agree with everything in it, but he's a lot closer to getting it right than anyone on the TNA staff seems to be
http://pwinsider.com/ViewArticle.asp?id=27004&p=1

[finketr]

What is TNA?

for me, TNA is the X division from way back during the team canada days (sorry i know there not synch) but that's what caught my eye and kept it in my tivo. now i can watch impact in <= 20 minutes by ff'ing through all the crap.

[Maple Leafs]

Were there any details about the new Hart angle? I'm afraid to click on pwinsider links...

[finketr]

Were there any details about the new Hart angle? I'm afraid to click on pwinsider links...

i didn't see any in that article and yeah.. i had to restart firefox since it was taking an insane amount of memory..

[Neon_Chaos]

Okay, this is bad.

Last night, coming off a PPV even, Raw posted the lowest rating it's had in 10 YEARS, a 2.8 cable rating. The last time so few people watched, Austin was throwing Rock's Intercontinental title into the river in December '97.

And since Smackdown did a 2.5 broadcast rating (larger universe than cable) that means more people watched Smackdown last Friday than watched the flagship last night.

If Jericho doesn't pull the numbers up (since he's reportedly a specific request by USA), things may start to get awfully tense around the office.

Here's the link to Scherer's article on PW Insider
http://pwinsider.com/ViewArticle.asp?id=26982&p=1

Meanwhile, that same article notes that AM Raw (the Saturday morning recap show) did a 0.8 cable rating this past weekend and that's not too danged shabby considered TNA still can't beat a 1.2 in primetime and has recently dipped back down to around a 1.0 and even into a 0.9 for some quarter-hours for last week's two hour debut. Also worth noting, IMO, from the TNA ratings is that their highest rated demographic cell is still M12-17, almost 25% higher than their M18-34 rating.

What it suggests to me, based on this partial data, is that wrestling may be drifting back toward having middle school & high school viewers as the core again, much like the Rock N' Wrestling era in spite of a very different product. I've seen this in my own household so it isn't a totally foreign idea to me, but it is a little surprising that the it may not be such an isolated thing as I would have thought. What I've been seeing at local indies would also match up to that possibility, as the audiences are getting younger & younger in the past year or so.

Expect the numbers to be low all October (MNF and Baseball Postseason). If they pop up at below 3.0 in November, that's when you push the panic button.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Expect the numbers to be low all October (MNF and Baseball Postseason). If they pop up at below 3.0 in November, that's when you push the panic button.

Agreed to a point, but those things have existed before but haven't been able to drive them down to this level for a decade, making this a little more concerning (if you're them or USA at least).

[JonInMiddleGA]

Home from Bound For Glory.

Not really one highlight that stands out above the others, just a darned solid show from top to bottom. Crowd was smaller than they might have hoped for I suspect, but it was consistently hot throughout. Very very cool to see "Consequences Creed" and recognize him as one-half of the NWA-Anarchy tag team champions (apparently a last minute fill-in for their first choice, 2 Cold Scorpio). I've talked to Creed a little bit at the indy shows, seems like a really down to earth nice young guy & I'm thrilled for him to have gotten such an opportunity and to have done a more than respectable job in the role he had to play.

Best match of the night? Probably the one you didn't see at home. Motor City Machine Guns versus the debuting team of Johnny Parisi (Swinger) and Joey Matthews (Mercury). Oddest thing I noticed might have been facey pops for Killings even though the crowd was pretty solidly behind Styles & Tomko. Skipper's dive from the rigging looked scary sick in person. And while it might not be the greatest long term booking move in the world, I have no problem with Sting getting one more title on his resume in what really has to be like a second hometown for him, he certainly was treated as though he was one of our own. And after the cameras went dark, he stopped at the top of the ramp & acknowledged the crowd with several "I'm not worthy" bows to the fans, which I thought was a nice touch.

Probably not a perfect show, but a darned fun experience all the way around.
Some quality family time with my son afterwards, as the hour drive home just flew by and we were both kind of shocked to realize that we were home & had been talking non-stop the whole way.

[Toddzilla]

Some quality family time with my son afterwards, as the hour drive home just flew by and we were both kind of shocked to realize that we were home & had been talking non-stop the whole way.Best part of the recap :) Glad you guys had fun together!

[JonInMiddleGA]

And now that I've read all the online recaps, backstage stuff and all that, I'm happy to report that we were on the side opposite where Kong was dumped over the top rope & missed her wardrobe malfunction entirely ... thank God.

[molson]

I wish Jon was my dad growing up. My older brother got me into wrestling, and I was right in the middle of WWF country in the mid-80s. But my parents would never, ever, let me go to a show at the Boston Garden. One time for my birthday, a friend's father got me tickets (he was going to take me and my friend) and they STILL didn't let me go. They wouldn't even let me go to a friends house if they had ordered a PPV, and were having a wrestlemania party or something. I've never completely forgiven them.

[SirFozzie]

And now that I've read all the online recaps, backstage stuff and all that, I'm happy to report that we were on the side opposite where Kong was dumped over the top rope & missed her wardrobe malfunction entirely ... thank God.

what would have been worse, explaining it to your kid, or the nightmares it would have caused? :)

[JonInMiddleGA]

what would have been worse, explaining it to your kid, or the nightmares it would have caused? :)

Probably the worst would have been trying to find my way out of the club level to the first aid station to get a ride to the hospital to get treatment for my suddenly vacant & burning eye sockets.

[JonInMiddleGA]

From pwinsider.com

In what isn't much of a surprise at this point, WWE.com has posted the following:

WWE has come to terms on the release of WWE Superstar Booker T and WWE Diva Sharmell as of October 27. We wish both Booker & Sharmell he best in all their future endeavors.

[DeToxRox]

And if you read TNA spoilers they've managed to undo most of the good that came out of BFG

[Neon_Chaos]

And if you read TNA spoilers they've managed to undo most of the good that came out of BFG

NO NO NO NO NO.

:(

Really?

[DeToxRox]

NO NO NO NO NO.

:(

Really?

If you're a Joe fan be ready for the impending feud with a guy whos name happens to rhyme with feud.

[DeToxRox]

Oh and everyones favorite Disco Stu impersonator is back in TNA

[DeToxRox]

ECW & SD are apparently going to be a joint brand as Sci Fi isn't sure they'll renew the ECW deal in December.

[Flasch186]

ECW & SD are apparently going to be a joint brand as Sci Fi isn't sure they'll renew the ECW deal in December.

hip hip hooray!! now if they'll just combine two more all will be swell.

[DeToxRox]

And TNA outdoes themselves tonight with even more perplexing booking then last night

[JonInMiddleGA]

DeTox beat me to it I see.

Who the FUCK is booking this shit? Dusty fucking Rhodes?

Come out of a kickass PPV, manage to sell ME two shirts (not counting the two for my son) and then you try to pawn off idiotic bullshit like this as something worth watching? Fuck you Jeff Jarret, fuck you Vince Russo, fuck you Dutch Mantell, fuck you Kurt Angle, and fuck you Dixie Carter you dimwitted jocksniffing silverspooned twat.

[DeToxRox]

DeTox beat me to it I see.

Who the FUCK is booking this shit? Dusty fucking Rhodes?

Come out of a kickass PPV, manage to sell ME two shirts (not counting the two for my son) and then you try to pawn off idiotic bullshit like this as something worth watching? Fuck you Jeff Jarret, fuck you Vince Russo, fuck you Dutch Mantell, fuck you Kurt Angle, and fuck you Dixie Carter you dimwitted jocksniffing silverspooned twat.

And to make matters worse the rumored mystery man at the next PPV is Scott Hall lol

[Comey]

Where are the spoilers? I'd like to see them.

Can someone provide a link?

[DeToxRox]

http://www.411mania.com/wrestling/news/61615/TNA-Impact-Taping-Results-(SPOILERS).htm

http://www.411mania.com/wrestling/news/61685/Complete-TNA-Impact-Taping-Results-(SPOILERS).htm

[JonInMiddleGA]

Where are the spoilers? I'd like to see them.

Can someone provide a link?

Try tnawrestlingnews.com (just make sure you've got a pop-up blocker working)

[Comey]

Thanks. What a load of crap.

[molson]

Davari released by the WWE today also.

I still hope we see Muhammad Hussan again someday - the guy was a decent wrestler, but had very good charisma and was a heat machine whenever he did anything.

Maybe I'm old school - but the fact that we don't have any big-time middle eastern heels on the wrestling scene just seems......wrong.

[molson]

A few more details on Teddy Hart, which I found amusing - from PWInsider:

"While Teddy Hart had been very much more behaved than in previous years, this was just a case once again of Teddy being Teddy. While in developmental recently during the course of matches, Teddy would randomly springboard in off the ropes or do unexpected moonsaults, etc.. Basically going in to business for himself. He would be admonished, reprimanded, and told that he can not do that. Then at the next show he'd do it again. If WWE instructed everyone to dress business casual, Teddy would show up in his glittery pink outfits and so on and so forth.

The breaking point was when Teddy was admonished and told he needed to learn better ring psychology, and he gave what was described as "A Teddy Hart Answer". Vince McMahon was in one of his "on the warpath" moods on that day during talent evaluations, and it was decided that Teddy was not worth the trouble.

Following his release he's contracted TNA, to which Mike couldn't get any answers in regards to a possible deal there. He also contacted Ring of Honor several times, who immediately said they had no interest. He also contacted Jersey All Pro, and Mike expects to see him showing up there.

Just Teddy being Teddy."

[JonInMiddleGA]

{checks calendar} Nope, it's not April 1st.

I can only hope that this is either some sort of joke or that someone has hacked their site or something but ... well, let's just say that it doesn't really surprise me all that much at this point. Sigh.

http://www.tnawrestlingnews.com/headlines/194672371.shtml
TNAWrestlingNews.com has learned that TNA is apparently talking to former WCW World Heavyweight champion David Arquette.

Arquette called Jonny Fairplay about managing him.

We'll have a full detailed update on this here on TNAWrestlingNews.com on Friday.

[molson]

I really hate that that got leaked.

Now TNA can't announce that they've signed a "former World Champion", try to sell a PPV based on that, and then have it be David Arquette.

[Neon_Chaos]

Harry Smith vs. Carlito on RAW!

[Neon_Chaos]

Wow. That Candice Michelle/Beth Phoenix segment reeked of HLA. :)

[molson]

Wow. That Candice Michelle/Beth Phoenix segment reeked of HLA. :)

Brutal Fall at the end knocked her out. WWE.com says just a shoulder injury though:

http://www.dailymotion.com/relevance/search/Beth+Phoenix/video/x3a3cu_102207-candice-michelle-vs-beth-ph

[saldana]

Brutal Fall at the end knocked her out. WWE.com says just a shoulder injury though:

http://www.dailymotion.com/relevance/search/Beth+Phoenix/video/x3a3cu_102207-candice-michelle-vs-beth-ph

if she wasnt out cold, that was one of the best sells i have ever seen.

[saldana]

dola, and it appeared that those emts were actually doing their jobs right, as opposed to the ones that normally come out...again...if that was an angle, it was run better than anything i have seen them do before.

[JonInMiddleGA]

pwinsider now says concussion & broken clavicle for Candice Michelle.

[Toddzilla]

Sorry, not buying it. They've gone down that road way too many times. The referee giving the "X" sign with his forearms right in front of the camera was way too obvious.

Work work work work work work work work work work work work work work.

[molson]

Sorry, not buying it. They've gone down that road way too many times. The referee giving the "X" sign with his forearms right in front of the camera was way too obvious.

Work work work work work work work work work work work work work work.

Did you see the bump?

I don't recall a fake injury every being reported as real by both WWE.com and pwinsider.

[Toddzilla]

Yeah, I saw it, and to be honest it reminded me of every in-ring injury angle the WWE has ever done. To me it looked scripted, from the bump all the way to the commentary to the backboard. We've seen angles like this to give wrestlers extended time off from injury, so nothing the WWE has done or is doing convinces me that this is even slightly real.

That being said, everyone on pwtorch.com is convinced it's legit, so I'll begrudgingly admit it's probably real, but that is in spite of what I saw on Raw, not because of it.

[Neon_Chaos]

Yeah, I saw it, and to be honest it reminded me of every in-ring injury angle the WWE has ever done. To me it looked scripted, from the bump all the way to the commentary to the backboard. We've seen angles like this to give wrestlers extended time off from injury, so nothing the WWE has done or is doing convinces me that this is even slightly real.

That being said, everyone on pwtorch.com is convinced it's legit, so I'll begrudgingly admit it's probably real, but that is in spite of what I saw on Raw, not because of it.

The bump was wicked. As much as the smart inside me would like to say it's a work, Candice didn't have her hands up, and she just landed face-first on the mat. I'm glad she's alright... but daaaaaaaaaaaamn, that must've hurt like a bitch.

[molson]

Yeah, I saw it, and to be honest it reminded me of every in-ring injury angle the WWE has ever done. To me it looked scripted, from the bump all the way to the commentary to the backboard. We've seen angles like this to give wrestlers extended time off from injury, so nothing the WWE has done or is doing convinces me that this is even slightly real.

That being said, everyone on pwtorch.com is convinced it's legit, so I'll begrudgingly admit it's probably real, but that is in spite of what I saw on Raw, not because of it.

The WWE does the "serious hushed tone injury angle" way too often, so they sort of deserve this kind of reaction.

But there was little things that were different - trying to give her a water bottle, actually taking their time to get her on the backboard, etc.

But the bump was the thing. No one's ever taken a worked unprotected face first bump like that in the history of wrestling.

[Toddzilla]

But the bump was the thing. No one's ever taken a worked unprotected face first bump like that in the history of wrestling.Intentionally, anyway :)

[Toddzilla]

I actually like what Wade Keller had to say on the subject. Paraphrasing, he suggests that with the rising popularity of MMA, fans would accept a referee simply running over, covering up the wreslter, and calling for the bell. Problem is, the WWE would start to use it in angles, natch.

[molson]

I actually like what Wade Keller had to say on the subject. Paraphrasing, he suggests that with the rising popularity of MMA, fans would accept a referee simply running over, covering up the wreslter, and calling for the bell. Problem is, the WWE would start to use it in angles, natch.

It's actually weird that they insist on finishing matches when this happens. Beth Phoenix could have easily made the injury worse by pulling her hair and arm to bring her to the middle of the ring (and she wasn't exactly gentle).

And then there's Steve Austin actually getting a roll-up pin on Owen Hart a few seconds after breaking his neck.

[Neon_Chaos]

It's actually weird that they insist on finishing matches when this happens. Beth Phoenix could have easily made the injury worse by pulling her hair and arm to bring her to the middle of the ring (and she wasn't exactly gentle).

And then there's Steve Austin actually getting a roll-up pin on Owen Hart a few seconds after breaking his neck.

In what could be considered the WEAKEST roll-up and pin in the history of wrestling!

[molson]

In what could be considered the WEAKEST roll-up and pin in the history of wrestling!

Yes, though I prefer to look at is as the best roll-up and pin in the history of wrestling ever performed by a guy with a broken neck.

[Neon_Chaos]

Her feet caught the ropes. She landed on her face/shoulder. Goddamn. That must've hurt.

http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb320/Lthomascsonka/NearCandiceDeath.gif

[SirFozzie]

Apparently they did a similar spot a few days ago... so it was a planned spot (that she would get caught on the top rope).. but a legitimate injury.

From a DVDVR thread (it's about a house show in Ireland)

Match 7 – Beth Phoenix v Candice Michelle for the Women’s Championship. This was a decent WWE women’s match, including Candice hitting a huracanrana from the top. There were two botched spots though, which almost made the match memorable for all the wrong reasons. Candice seemed to miss a headlock takedown, and landed hard on her back, which seemed to wind her for a little bit. But about 2 minutes before the end of the match, Candice was on the top and Beth went to crotch her, but Candice missed the top turnbuckle and fell face first to the mat, narrowly missing landing head and neck first. Thankfully she was ok. Beth pinned her shortly afterwards.

So apparently this was the 2nd time in a week they had screwed up the spot.

[Travis]

Yeah, I love how you can see her land *hard* on her left shoulder, then a hair pull and (left) arm yank to pull her out for the pin.

Nothing like complete disregard for any potential injury to just wrap up the match.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Y'know, the whole Angle-Sting-Nash mess is some horrible booking IMO and I don't see much that would redeem it.

That said however, I thought Don West actually did some of his best work as a solo commentator during Cornette's segment with Tenay. He's always, at least in theory I guess, been the "voice of the fan" and I thought his incredulous reaction to the decision was pretty appropriate for that role.

Sure doesn't make me feel better about the WCW-esque state of booking affairs (Dudleys vs the X-Division is actually even worse than the World Title mess) but it was a slim bright spot in the otherwise dismal picture.

(Yeah, I know how screwed you are when Don West is your bright spot)

[Scarecrow]

Expect to see Flair vs. Sting in TNA soon...

no proof, just a hunch.


Doesn't Sting need a partner for his next PPV?????


Once again: no proof, just a hunch

[JonInMiddleGA]

Can't see it happening 'Crow, and apparently neither can Flair. He's making that pretty clear as recently as last week. I've multiple reports on this interview with all having about the same take, just linking to the one that Googled up first.

http://www.prowrestling.com/article/news/6772
I heard Ric Flair on "The Drive" on Fox Sports Radio around 2:45 PM CST, 10/19/07. He spoke about Benoit, his love for the WWE, how the 4 horsemen were created, Wrestlemania in Orlando, FL, and a caller asked him if he would ever go to TNA. He said he would never go to TNA. He said no disrespect to them but he is WWE for the rest of his career.

[finketr]

Y'know, the whole Angle-Sting-Nash mess is some horrible booking IMO and I don't see much that would redeem it.

That said however, I thought Don West actually did some of his best work as a solo commentator during Cornette's segment with Tenay. He's always, at least in theory I guess, been the "voice of the fan" and I thought his incredulous reaction to the decision was pretty appropriate for that role.

Sure doesn't make me feel better about the WCW-esque state of booking affairs (Dudleys vs the X-Division is actually even worse than the World Title mess) but it was a slim bright spot in the otherwise dismal picture.

(Yeah, I know how screwed you are when Don West is your bright spot)

so, nash gets pushed to main event for messing with the x-division . . . now it's the dudley's turn.. lovely... now i know why i fast-forward most of impact now...

depressing.

[finketr]

oh.. i look forward to spolierish type info along the lines of:

you must see the petey williams - aj styles match, for example.

[miami_fan]

WWE is saddened by the passing of Lillian Ellison, who was known to sports-entertainment fans as Hall of Famer Fabulous Moolah. She passed away last night in Columbia, S.C.

In the world of women’s wrestling, there will always be one irrefutable legend that stands head and shoulders above the rest: The Fabulous Moolah. She was the longest reigning champion in the history of her chosen sport, or any sport for that matter. And with more than 50 years in the business to her credit, she established a legacy that will never be forgotten, making her name synonymous with female wrestling.



http://www.wwe.com/inside/news/fabulousmoolahpasses

[JonInMiddleGA]

Credit where it's due, nice cheap heat line from Santino (in LA for Raw)

"Steve Austin is like Kobe Bryant. He's bald. He's popular. He doesn't want to be in Los Angeles."

edit to add: The rest of the segment was fairly predictable, stunner & all, but the beer truck with a hose wasn't a bad touch to finish it & Santino sold the comedy spot nicely, ass whip & all :)

[bulletsponge]

Credit where it's due, nice cheap heat line from Santino (in LA for Raw)

"Steve Austin is like Kobe Bryant. He's bald. He's popular. He doesn't want to be in Los Angeles."

edit to add: The rest of the segment was fairly predictable, stunner & all, but the beer truck with a hose wasn't a bad touch to finish it & Santino sold the comedy spot nicely, ass whip & all :)


they should have Santino ambush and ass whoop Austin soon, maybe with a little help from the legend killer. that would put massive heat on those 2

[molson]

My favorite Santino line of the night:

"There will be no Steve Austin here tonight. There will be no JR reaching the point of orgasm".

[molson]

The WWE has finally cut loose Chris Masters, just a couple of days into his "second" suspension (though I've read he's actually failed 4 or 5 wellness tests).

[thesloppy]

http://icanhascheezburger.files.wordpress.com/2007/04/masterlock.jpg?w=480&h=640

[bulletsponge]

kitty wrestling!

[JonInMiddleGA]

I'm not all that thrilled with some of the storylines but I will say that I kind of like the new pacing for Impact. The first segment tonight almost has an old ECW feel to it, including the camera angle & feel of the Christian interview in the second segment.

[SirFozzie]

Just over 2 years ago, wrestling's downturn began.

Hope you're up there in heaven, Eddy.

[JonInMiddleGA]

"Hornswoggle spits in the face of people who are not cool"

[DeToxRox]

Carlito on the way out of WWE it appears. He apparently asked for his release and losing to 'Swoggle will probably prove that to be true.

But who cares?

Almost time for Y2j!

[JonInMiddleGA]

10
9
8
7
6
5
4
3
2
1
0

[JonInMiddleGA]

Heh heh heh

"... your SuperCuts haircut & your subscription to Blue Ball Magazine"

[DeToxRox]

Classic Y2J right there

[Neon_Chaos]

EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEVAR!

[JonInMiddleGA]

I'm kind of disappointed to see that the clip on wwe.com is edited. We lost the best part of the list we're being saved from (guess the magazine crack wasn't considered kid friendly).

[Toddzilla]

It was great to see Jericho back - well 80% of him anyway - but that was seriously the most anti-climactic segment ever. I think everyone pretty much knew beforehand what should happen when Jericho returned:

Heel cuts a promo in the ring
Rediculously long Titantron video
Copiuos amounts of pyro
Jehrico comes out and insults the heel
People cheer

Yawn.

They had how many years to come up with something and *that* was the best they could do?

[Flasch186]

It was great to see Jericho back - well 80% of him anyway - but that was seriously the most anti-climactic segment ever. I think everyone pretty much knew beforehand what should happen when Jericho returned:

Heel cuts a promo in the ring
Rediculously long Titantron video
Copiuos amounts of pyro
Jehrico comes out and insults the heel
People cheer

Yawn.

They had how many years to come up with something and *that* was the best they could do?

agreed, whole heartedly and Im a Jericho mark.

It seemed his character is going to be a little more "Sexual?" or something like that? I dunno, there were few head scratching moments. Im hoping it was just rust but he seemed to be really overly-done to me.

[JonInMiddleGA]

It was great to see Jericho back ... but that was seriously the most anti-climactic segment ever. They had how many years to come up with something and *that* was the best they could do?

I think you bring up the thing that bothers me most about this situation:
last night was most likely the highlight of the whole return.

He might have a great match (or several), he might cut killer promos left & right, but I don't believe any of them will have the sense of excitement that came with the anticipation last night.

Should be a ratings spike for the last hour last night, probably get another boost next week from whatever casual fans didn't know he was coming back/didn't know it was last night, but after that I'm not sure that there will be much in the way of a "Jericho Effect". Truth is, I don't think there's anybody who could do that right now other than maybe Rock.

Meanwhile Flasch said
It seemed his character is going to be a little more "Sexual?" or something like that? I dunno, there were few head scratching moments. Im hoping it was just rust but he seemed to be really overly-done to me.

I think there was always a certain amount of the hair-band bad boy that went with the character. Even when it's not blatant it's always been a strong influence on his mic work. Best example last night (other than the outfit) was the pronunciation of the word "again". That was just CJ channeling Dickinson/Halford/Lemmy. And he's spent a lot of his time off working on his music, so I expect those influences to be even more obvious now even if it isn't entirely intentional

I think the most, I dunno, "disturbing" thing for me last night was how much I thought his build resembled Benoit, especially his arms. That look, plus knowing that HBK used a crossface Sunday night, just all struck me a little uncomfortable. It was distracting I guess is the word I'm looking for.

[Toddzilla]

I think you bring up the thing that bothers me most about this situation:
last night was most likely the highlight of the whole return.I tend to disagree, since last night was such a let-down in some ways, I'd expect Jericho to be capable of busting out a 4-4.5 star match down the road. That would be the highlight to me, but in 5 years, people will most likely still only remember the promo.

[Toddzilla]

I read the Sean Waltman interview over on the Torch a few weeks ago, and they touch on Jericho's first run in the WWE which was very very interesting. Waltman's take was that Jericho wasn't used to the WWE "style" which led to Jericho not really getting over in the ring both to the fans or backstage. It really frustrated him, but after a few months he got a better idea of how the WWE paces a match psychologically, and he started to have better matches.

Keller disagreed to a point, because when Jericho came over, he was known mostly for a series of very good matches in WCW with Mysterio, Malenko, etc. The key difference being the expectations of what a good match is in WCW and WWE.

Stll, Jericho has a handful of moves that haven't been co-opted in the WWE yet (lionsault, springboard dropkick to the apron, face crusher, and the Boston crab) so his wrestling should still be "fresh".

And that's what I'm looking forward to, his run in the ring. I can do without a bunch of promos for now.

[molson]

There's no way Jericho can live up to the hype the internet has put on him over the last few months. I mean, I'm glad he's back, the roster definitely needs some fresh bodies, but Jericho has never really worked as a WWE main eventer (with the possible exception of his last heel run against Cena).

And he looked - weird to me last night. A combination of being two years older, the haircut, and his build looked odd. Late 30s Jericho needs to look and be booked differently than Mid 20s Jericho.

He's never worked well in a WWE ring to me because his offense is so soft. He's a good wrestler, and can be exciting against the right opponents, but compared to others in the WWE, it always kind of looks like he's prancing or tip-toing around the ring. His high impact stuff doesn't have much impact.

I've always saw him as a guy who can bring energy to the upper-midcard, but putting the hopes of the company behind him is a bad idea. This run will be a dissapointment, and as usual, the response will be that the "WWE didn't use him right".

[Fidatelo]

When did Jericho become gay? What the hell is with the hair and vest?

[molson]

When did Jericho become gay? What the hell is with the hair and vest?

The whole look was disturbing.

It's kind of like HBK - a good looking guy in his 20s can get away with over the top gay antics to some extent in a way a guy in his 30s just can't. HBK still gets away with it for some reason, though he's unique. (But can you imagine someone watching wrestling for the 1st time and seeing this balding, 42-year old guy prance to the ring?).

Jericho, on the other hand, desperately needs a new look, (or a full heel turn where he could gay out all he wants).

[Deattribution]

That's how they blew it, the hype was good - the entrance itsself was memorable but once I actually saw Jericho - I was thinking damn this guy needs a new look and he's JUST redeubted. Then he talked, and then I'm thinking damn, this guy is still using stuff from 1999 and again, he JUST redeubted.

He wasn't funny, he was awkward. Child bearing hips? super-cuts? (with his hair looking like he cut it himself) amongst other lines. It felt like a TNA debut where they go back 5 years on a guys personality so they can use his WWE persona.

[Fidatelo]

I gotta say, Y2J is starting to seem a little odd in 2007. There are kids watching wrestling now that probably don't even know what Y2K was...

[Toddzilla]

My wife asked as I watched the intro again this morning, "When did Jon Bon Jovi become a wrestler?"

[saldana]

I gotta say, Y2J is starting to seem a little odd in 2007. There are kids watching wrestling now that probably don't even know what Y2K was...

i havent watched raw in about 6 weeks, but tuned in for the last 15 minutes last night to see the return, and the whole time, all i was thinking (other than "who the hell wears a 5 foot watch chain") was "its 2007...you couldnt come up with a new line in 8 years?"...the ever bit and the raw is jericho bit were fine, but Y2J needs to go

[DeToxRox]

WWE makes a great move by putting Shelton Benjamin on ECW and giving him Elijah Burke as his hype man. Burke is great on the mic and with Benjamin's in ring abilities, he may finally catch on.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Me ... want ... title ... match.

Heh heh.

But I wonder if they paid CTW for that Cookie Monster picture.

And, hate to admit it, but Santino's "KYJ" riff wasn't bad.

...

but the end of the segment was awfully doggoned random.

[Schmidty]

Just watched RAW.

Not much to say, other than the fact that Orton is horrifically boring, Umaga is even more boring, and Jericho is just as lame and boring as ever. A hundred wrestlers have done Jericho's schtick, and 85% of them have done it much, much better. BLECH.

Can't wait until Cena gets back. Love him or hate him, at least he (along with HHH, Michaels, Morella, etc.) has charisma and a personality.

[Schmidty]

Oh, and when are these dipshits going to realize that "Damn" isn't remotely funny anymore?

Oh wait, 80% of the idiots in the crowd still say "What" after every pause, even though it hasn't been funny since....ever. Guess we're stuck with repitive, uncreative crap until some competition comes along. Too bad TNA is a giant pile of shit.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Okay Schmidty, "Damn" bothers you enough to comment on it but a spray painted door on the wall for a leprechaun to run through isn't something worth even a quick mention?

And as for "What", consider who is in the crowd at a live WWE event (or not, since they apparently only drew 1500 people in Greenville, SC). And then consider that my 9 y/o occasionally uses "What" on me for a quick laugh for himself from time to time. Put those together & suddenly it's lingering appeal makes a lot more sense.

[Schmidty]

Okay Schmidty, "Damn" bothers you enough to comment on it but a spray painted door on the wall for a leprechaun to run through isn't something worth even a quick mention?

And as for "What", consider who is in the crowd at a live WWE event (or not, since they apparently only drew 1500 people in Greenville, SC). And then consider that my 9 y/o occasionally uses "What" on me for a quick laugh for himself from time to time. Put those together & suddenly it's lingering appeal makes a lot more sense.

The door was dumb too, but at least it hasn't been repeated ad nauseum.

As far as "what", it was funny for a bit after Stone Cold did it, but now it's just disruptive and irritating. I understand that it appeals to kids and stuff (if I was under 12, I'd likely do it too), but it still annoys me. It just feels like a forced fad trying to become a tradition, and it ain't working.

[JonInMiddleGA]

It just feels like a forced fad trying to become a tradition, and it ain't working.

I really hate to break it to you, but I think it's already worked. It's not to the level of the iconic response to a chop to the chest, but it's niche is pretty well established. I've heard it at too many indy shows to believe it hasn't taken hold.

[Calis]

So I have this on again off again deal with wrestling. I can't stand the WWE presently and TNA is pretty bad as well but occasional has a match that I'll watch, but I usually end up going back and watching old stuff over again. Anyway, for my birthday this year I ended up getting several "shoot" DVD's which I didn't even realize were that big.

Anyway, I've been spending the last few days ripping the audio out of them and listening to them at work or when I go exercise and some of them are pretty interesting. I have a series of 3 with Bobby Heenan/Jim Cornette that have some great stuff, and mentioned Mantaur which I had managed to completely block out of my memory, but I got a laugh out of that. Anyway, pretty funny stuff.

I've started listening to one by the Iron Sheik which I thought might be interesting because the guy is crazy as hell and seems to have no ability to differentiate his character from real life, and it's amusing but moreso because it's so painful. He's obviously either punch drunk or just stoned out of his mind, and I believe 95% of what he is saying is complete crap but it's funny to hear nonetheless.

Tomorrow night is probably going to end up being the first wrestling PPV I've ordered since I think the last old school ECW one. I'm really considering picking up the Ring of Honor one, as it looks pretty solid and I'm interested in seeing the Briscoes in a ladder match. I'm still pretty amazed with the Briscoes. I only watch RoH sporadically so I saw them when they were really green and they've made such improvements in a short amount of time it's pretty staggering. They're still green in some respects, but they're incredibly young and they seem to have this ability to just completely take over a show, and you can't even piece together why. I don't particularly love them, and you're not usually wow'ed by them, but their matches always seem to stick out. I don't know how to explain it, but I enjoy seeing some legitimate tag teams, and not just throwing together a couple of low carders for the heck of it.

So I might just grab it.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Just a tiny trivial bit from last night's Raw. NWA-Anarchy workers played the roles for Kennedy's trip down memory lane for HBK.

TJ Mack = Jannetty
Phil Shatter = Razor
Mikal Judas = Diesel
Jeff Lewis = HBK

Small but nice opportunity for those guys -- even if it doesn't land them a job, you know it's got to be fun just to do the spot -- and really a great situation for Anarchy workers who regularly get chances to do little gigs for both TNA and the WWE.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Well that was unexpected (RVD just kicked Santino's ass).
Later tonight, it's Marty Jannetty vs Kennedy.

[molson]

Just a tiny trivial bit from last night's Raw. NWA-Anarchy workers played the roles for Kennedy's trip down memory lane for HBK.

TJ Mack = Jannetty
Phil Shatter = Razor
Mikal Judas = Diesel
Jeff Lewis = HBK

Small but nice opportunity for those guys -- even if it doesn't land them a job, you know it's got to be fun just to do the spot -- and really a great situation for Anarchy workers who regularly get chances to do little gigs for both TNA and the WWE.

Jeff Lewis was very good - he did his homework.

Fun show so far tonight. I wonder if the biggest surprise is yet to come.

[Joe]

did Ahmed Johnson come out yet?

[JonInMiddleGA]

Jeff Lewis was very good - he did his homework.

Although his Anarchy gimmick(s) haven't really showcased it, I've always thought he had a very expressive face that can play a pretty good range from comedy to downright psycho.

[JonInMiddleGA]

did Ahmed Johnson come out yet?

I missed the first little bit of the show so I'm not sure but I don't believe he has.

Actually I've kind of been surprised by the limited number of guests so far (not so much limited, just not the straight nostalgia show I was kind of expecting)

[molson]

There's a few more bizarre names I've heard have signed on but I won't spoil them.

But if you missed the beginning, you missed Bastian Booger, Abe "Knuckleball" Schwartz and Sunny.

[JonInMiddleGA]

In that case (if that was the first segment) then I saw most of it. We flipped it on as Vince was explaining when/why/how he slept with someone (Mae Young maybe?)

[rjolley]

Ok, who is/was Abe "Knuckleball" Schwartz?

[molson]

Ok, who is/was Abe "Knuckleball" Schwartz?

Played by Brooklyn Brawler/Steve Lombardi. I think he used for a couple of weeks during the '94 baseball strike.

[rjolley]

Ah. So why wasn't he Brooklyn Brawler? Doesn't have the rights to the name?

[JonInMiddleGA]

Hey Hulkster, let's promo that new NBC show American Gladiators on USA Network ... owned by NBC Universal, so it's cool ;)

15 man battle royal coming up next, including: Al Snow, Bart Gunn, Doink, Repo Man, Steve Blackman, Pete Gas, Bob Backlund ... and others to be introduced after this break.

[molson]

Ah. So why wasn't he Brooklyn Brawler? Doesn't have the rights to the name?

For tonight's purposes, Schwartz is just more obscure and ridiculous. The WWE has dusted off the Brooklyn Brawler now and then over the years.

Definitely didn't expect to see Bob Backlund.

[SirFozzie]

damn, Blackman looks like he could go a fifteen minute match now.

And Scotty 2 Hotty looks like.. well.. he's more flamboyant then ever. Let's just leave it there.

The Anvil!

GILLBERG! *laughs*

[JonInMiddleGA]

Ah. So why wasn't he Brooklyn Brawler? Doesn't have the rights to the name?

Nah, BB was a Vince creation.

Presumably the decision was made in order to set up Trips joke about "the Brooklyn Brawler apparently not being available tonight".

[JonInMiddleGA]

Gangrel, Scotty 2 Hotty, ... who was the black dude I just got a glimpse of ... never mind, that's Flash Funk. And Steve "Skinner" Keirn. Jim Neidhardt. And Sgt Slaughter ... and a frightening Gillberg (that is Duane Gill, right?)

[JonInMiddleGA]

Woot ! I.R.S. (aka Rotundo) wins the BR but Ted DiBiase shows up to prove every man has his price.

[molson]

I don't think these fans have any clue who any of these people are.

They should have done this show in Boston or NYC or Philly.

[molson]

Gangrel, Scotty 2 Hotty, ... who was the black dude I just got a glimpse of ... never mind, that's Flash Funk. And Steve "Skinner" Keirn. Jim Neidhardt. And Sgt Slaughter ... and a frightening Gillberg (that is Duane Gill, right?)

Bill "Goon" Irwin & The Mean Street Posse's Pete Gas round it out, I believe.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Y'know, I kind of respect the fact that Bischoff doesn't try to hide his gray hair.

[Joe]

yessssssss DiBiase!

[JonInMiddleGA]

Bill "Goon" Irwin & The Mean Street Posse's Pete Gas round it out, I believe.

I had totally forgotten about Wild Bill Irwin even doing the Goon gimmick.
I'll admit to having to look that one up.

[Neuqua]

My wife asked as I watched the intro again this morning, "When did Jon Bon Jovi become a wrestler?"

I admit, I LOL'ed.

[molson]

I didn't quite catch it, but Dusty Rhodes said something about "finally" having a son wrestle on RAW. Uhh.

[bulletsponge]

damn, i want to wrestle Trish, id even let her pin me :)

[SirFozzie]

Anyone want to lay odds that Janetty turns on HBK?

[SirFozzie]

Well, I was wrong. But that was the least surprising ending to Raw ever.

KICKWHAMSTUNNER

[DeToxRox]

Kudos to Regal and Punk (amongst those I saw) for have a Pop bash. Punk sporting his usual Pepsi and Regal with the Coke.

[Schmidty]

That was the worst crowd I have ever seen. They should be embarrassed, and the city should never be given another big show. Brutal.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Kudos to Regal and Punk (amongst those I saw) for have a Pop bash. Punk sporting his usual Pepsi and Regal with the Coke.

I didn't see Punk but I did notice Regal & appreciated it.
Also noticed Jericho basically faked his sip.

[Toddzilla]

No Rock?

LAME

[Joe]

No Bret.. and I don't think that was actually Foley under the Mankind mask

[JonInMiddleGA]

No Rock?

That absence was basically a given, as he's pretty much bigger than the show at this point.


No Bret.. and I don't think that was actually Foley under the Mankind mask


I wasn't too surprised about Bret not being there, and I had the same thought about Mankind /= Foley.

[TazFTW]

Well that was unexpected (RVD just kicked Santino's ass).

A squash. :eek:

[saldana]

mark out time for dibiase

i admit it...it totally marked out when his music hit...that was the highlight of the show for me.

[Flasch186]

From the hour I saw the audience wouldnt pop for anything. I agree, they sucked the life out of the show although I think I though the show sucked anyways, from what I saw.

[JonInMiddleGA]

One of the more interesting things about last night's show will come later, when we see the ratings for it. Kind of a damned-if-you-do situation. If they're good, they're supposed to be, especially considering the advance hype. But if they're bad then that might be the worst sign yet for the ratings (although with the new contract they just signed I guess it doesn't matter nearly as much as it might have).

[Toddzilla]

i admit it...it totally marked out when his music hit...that was the highlight of the show for me.I can't believe they didn't have DiBiase shaft some fan like he used to - that would have been the highlight of the show.

[Toddzilla]

One of the more interesting things about last night's show will come later, when we see the ratings for it. Kind of a damned-if-you-do situation. If they're good, they're supposed to be, especially considering the advance hype. But if they're bad then that might be the worst sign yet for the ratings (although with the new contract they just signed I guess it doesn't matter nearly as much as it might have).Last week Raw was up against the highest-rated Monday Night Football, and the highest rated cable show ever. This week it's the Saints and Falcons, so not many people were watching football I imagine.

[Maple Leafs]

I can't believe they didn't have DiBiase shaft some fan like he used to - that would have been the highlight of the show.
They should have had that kid he kicked the basketball away from 20 years ago show up and beat him down.

[Dr. Sak]

I guess this goes a little hand in hand with wrestling. I was visiting my aunt in the hospital last night. She was watching People's Court and one of the defendants ended up being none other than Jimmy "Mouth of the South" Hart.

[TLK]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v230/TheLionKing/sunny.jpg

This makes me happy.

edit: (yes.... in more ways than one. :))

[albionmoonlight]

They should have had that kid he kicked the basketball away from 20 years ago show up and beat him down.

That would have gone down as one of the top five greatest moments in wrestling history. Especially if (though they never would have done this) he just showed up out of the blue, beat him up, and then only made a comment about the basketball as he was walking away from the beatdown.

[molson]

No Bret.. and I don't think that was actually Foley under the Mankind mask

The Foley thing was very strange. He was defintitely at the show, I saw backstage pictures of him, but it definitiely was not him in the ring. The hair didn't match up with the backstage picture, and was clearly a wig. And there was zero closeups up his face (and about a billion closeups a few minutes later of Taker and Austin).

Either he had an early flight to catch, or someone made a bet that they could pull off an impersonation.

[Toddzilla]

Wow - Sunny lost about 200 pounds - good for her.

[molson]

One of the more interesting things about last night's show will come later, when we see the ratings for it. Kind of a damned-if-you-do situation. If they're good, they're supposed to be, especially considering the advance hype. But if they're bad then that might be the worst sign yet for the ratings (although with the new contract they just signed I guess it doesn't matter nearly as much as it might have).

4.1 off of hours of 3.4, 4.5 and 4.3. (So a 4.4 in the regular time slot).

The last time they had higher than 4.4 was January-February 2006. (Edge's 1st WWE Title Reign, Including the infamous "Live Sex Celebration".) Before that, you have to go back to early 2002 to find back to back weeks of 4.4 or higher.

So a very solid rating, but for a novelty show - I would expect them to be back to normal next week.

[Maple Leafs]

So a very solid rating, but for a novelty show - I would expect them to be back to normal next week.
Especially since there really wasn't anything in the show that would make somebody who had stopped watching but tuned in out of curiousity want to stick around for future weeks.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Especially since there really wasn't anything in the show that would make somebody who had stopped watching but tuned in out of curiousity want to stick around for future weeks.

It does sort of illustrate their problem when you look at the comments in this thread during last night's show.

We popped over DiBiase, seemed like everybody enjoyed the surprise (apparently one night only) return of RVD. We noticed Hogan, I almost always get a kick out of seeing Austin be Austin, we talked about The Goon.

And virtually none of us seemed to give a damn about anything that involved the active roster (even I thought last night's Jericho outing was just so-so).

[DeToxRox]

Watching Man Up on inDemand. Definetly the best PPV of the year. No question. Only cost 10 bones. Can't beat it.

[DeToxRox]

Briscoes vs Steen & Generico Ladder Wars match is probably better then any TLC match WWE has done. It's brutal. It's sick. It's fucking amazing.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Briscoes vs Steen & Generico Ladder Wars match is probably better then any TLC match WWE has done. It's brutal. It's sick. It's fucking amazing.

We watched it Sunday evening. Although it was very damned good, to be completely honest I thought NWA-Anarchy had a better ladder match at their Hostile Environment show back in June.

The always incredible recap from Larry Goodman (http://www.nwawrestling.com/PHP-Nuke/modules.php?name=News&file=print&sid=327) read as follows:
6) Awesome Attraction (Austin Creed & Hayden Young) beat Hollywood Brunettes (Kyle Matthews & Andrew Alexander) and Seth Delay & Adrian Hawkins in a Ladder Match to retain the NWA Anarchy Tag Team Titles (19:10). This was nuts. The belt was hung 15 feet above the ring. Three ladders of various sizes were ready and waiting. There was some comedy stuff early with the heel teams trying to get to the belt from an impossible distance below. Hawkins knocked Attraction off an 8 foot ladder with a springboard back elbow. That looked dumb. The action started to pick up. Alexander took a top rope bump onto the 6 foot ladder. Matthews ran up the ladder for a great dropkick on Creed. What followed were some of the most psychotic spots in Anarchy history. Two of them involved Young. From the top turnbuckle, he vaulted over the 8 foot ladder for a legdrop from the heavens onto Matthews. He topped himself by climbing to the top of the twelve foot ladder for a frogsplash onto Delay, who sold it like he was about to puke up a kidney. Delay launched a huracanrana off the 12 foot ladder onto Alexander, who was about halfway up the 8 foot ladder.Delay busted out the reverse 450 for a great crash and burn spot. Brunettes did the Sheeney Curse (double knee gutbuster/double stomp) off the ladder. Hawkins was the first to climb the 12 foot ladder and reach the belt, before getting knocked off. Matthew also got a touch. Matthews absolutely risked his life by taking a backdrop over the top of the 12 foot ladder onto a bridged ladder some 10 feet below. Creed appeared to have a clear path to the belt, but Delay whacked his ankle with a chair and climbed. Young slipped off the ropes on a springboard to the ladder ala Shelton Benjamin. Too bad. It would have made for a killer finish if he had hit it. Delay took a bump from near the top of the 12 footer and Young grabbed the gold. In victory, Young’s face showed his disappointment with missed spot. Creed was selling like his ankle was shot. All of the heels needed help from security to make it to the back. A jaw dropper of a match.

Best match I've ever seen in person, best ladder match I've ever seen period.
You know it's some sick stuff when my son turned to me during the match and said "they need to stop now, somebody is going get hurt or killed for real".

[DeToxRox]

Jon - Pick up PWG Battle of Los Angeles. You can get all three nights for like 35 bucks. I got mine the other day. It's unreal. Definetly a great pick up.

[TazFTW]

The Foley thing was very strange. He was defintitely at the show, I saw backstage pictures of him, but it definitiely was not him in the ring. The hair didn't match up with the backstage picture, and was clearly a wig. And there was zero closeups up his face (and about a billion closeups a few minutes later of Taker and Austin).

Either he had an early flight to catch, or someone made a bet that they could pull off an impersonation.

They showed clips from the show on ECW and showed a picture of Foley with the Mankind mask off during the beer bash, so it was him.

[Maple Leafs]

And virtually none of us seemed to give a damn about anything that involved the active roster (even I thought last night's Jericho outing was just so-so).
True, but that's because they didn't even try to give any of the current guys a "rub" from the old stars.

Just as an example, how do you have a show like this without Cena? I know he's hurt and probably can't do much, but he can't come out and do some mic work? This is the guy they're building around for the future, wouldn't it have been worth it to fly him in and let him have some screen time with Austin?

You can't even say that they're keeping him out of the spotlight while he's hurt so that his return will have a big impact, since he was all over the interview and highlight packages.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Just noticed that a quick cut of Foley exiting up the ramp & removing the Mankind mask to grin at the camera was included in the "last week on Raw" opening montage tonight.

[JonInMiddleGA]

I thought this was a pretty interesting ratings note. I can't think it bodes well for TNA overall.

http://www.tnawrestlingnews.com/headlines/199941729.shtml
Last Thursday's edition of iMPACT! drew a 1.14 rating, with an average audience of 1.5 million viewers.

Despite the star power of various former WWE stars and home-grown stars, not to mention the "Deal or No Deal" briefcase storyline that took place throughout the show, the top-rated quarter hour of the show featured the match between Velvet Sky & Angelina Love vs. Ms. Brooks and Ms. Jackie Moore. Their segment drew an impressive 1.3 rating, which looks to be the high-rated, non-gimmick quarter hour in the history of iMPACT! (non-gimmick means when it's not measuring based on another show, such as the lengthy CSI overrun that ran the week before, or the first quarter hour after UFC's Ultimate Fighter). This marks the second week in a row in which the women's match was the highest-rated portion of iMPACT! as the Gail Kim vs. ODB match with the Awesome Kong run-in gained 165,000 viewers and drew a 1.27 rating. The show's overall rating was a 1.09.

Furthermore, when they put all that star power out to build the main event during the same show (the 12/6 iMPACT!); Samoa Joe, Nash, Booker T, Young & Kaz vs. Kurt Angle, Christian, AJ Styles, Tomko & Roode, it drew a pretty good 1.16 quarter hour rating. However, the main event later in the show featuring all that talent drew a lackluster 0.97 rating. Additionally, the ladder match featuring Team 3D vs. Alex Shelley, Chris Sabin & Jay Lethal lost 248,000 viewers. And a match between Christopher Daniels & Senshi lost 234,000 viewers.

[molson]

TNA just needs to go head to head with RAW. Give casual WWE fans (who can't really remember when TNA is on) something to flip to during commercials and slow segments. I'm not saying they're anywhere close to competing, I just believe that they'll get better numbers opposite RAW than some random other night during the week. Monday night is wrestling night.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Monday night is wrestling night.

Except for much of the opening 25 minutes tonight apparently.

That was one of the more bizarre wastes of TV airtime I've seen in a long time.

[molson]

Except for much of the opening 25 minutes tonight apparently.

That was one of the more bizarre wastes of TV airtime I've seen in a long time.

A friend called and I was watching it on mute - please tell me it would have made more sense with the sound on. (Though I'm guessing not).

[JonInMiddleGA]

A friend called and I was watching it on mute - please tell me it would have made more sense with the sound on. (Though I'm guessing not).

Maybe marginally but that's about it I'm afraid.

Trips was reasonably okay , Hardy let his NC accent show more than usual which was interesting in a way, but on the whole ... dreadful.

[molson]

Jeff Hardy must have really kicked the meth - I never in a million years thought the WWE would trust him with high profile angles.

[Raiders Army]

What the hell happened with the 3 Edges?

[JonInMiddleGA]

What the hell happened with the 3 Edges?

The Major Brothers are apparently going to become a sort of undercard stable for Edge.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Also, before I forget to mention it, I really enjoyed seeing the run sheet for TNA that was floating around on the internet last night. Kind of cool if for no reason other than it revealed the producers of each segment (most of which were Russo) and that I can't recall ever seeing one for a wrestling show before.

[Raiders Army]

The Major Brothers are apparently going to become a sort of undercard stable for Edge.

Roger. Thanks.

[molson]

Also, before I forget to mention it, I really enjoyed seeing the run sheet for TNA that was floating around on the internet last night. Kind of cool if for no reason other than it revealed the producers of each segment (most of which were Russo) and that I can't recall ever seeing one for a wrestling show before.

There's 1 or 2 floating around for old RAW shows (Of course, on a quick Google search, all I could find was a on-camera D/X reference to "run sheets")

Very interesting though - to see what matches were "assigned" to Ricky Steamboat or Arn Anderson.

[molson]

The WWE WCCW DVD kicks ass.

Shameless plug (only because I've been inspired to do more regular updates).

http://www.operationsports.com/fofc/showthread.php?t=58343

[JonInMiddleGA]

Y'know, VKM may indeed be the Devil himself but the stuff they do with the troops overseas is praiseworthy.

edit to add: Kind of funny to see the commanding General of the area getting into the show a little bit too.

[DaddyTorgo]

Furthermore, when they put all that star power out to build the main event during the same show (the 12/6 iMPACT!); Samoa Joe, Nash, Booker T, Young & Kaz vs. Kurt Angle, Christian, AJ Styles, Tomko & Roode, it drew a pretty good 1.16 quarter hour rating. However, the main event later in the show featuring all that talent drew a lackluster 0.97 rating. Additionally, the ladder match featuring Team 3D vs. Alex Shelley, Chris Sabin & Jay Lethal lost 248,000 viewers. And a match between Christopher Daniels & Senshi lost 234,000 viewers.


I wonder (and maybe i'm giving the fans too much credit) to what extent this reflects the old "no matter how much starpower they put in the Main Event it will have a screwjob ending / be unsatisfying" mentality that I as well as any of my friends that used to watch wrestling had as far back as 1998/1999?? Maybe we were a minority of fans, but TV show undercard matches were always more appealing because they'd let the guys wrestle without 80,000 run-in's.

Dating mysel here, but I would MUCH rather have watched Rey Mysterio jr. vs. Psicosis on the undercard than Hogan vs. Sting in the Main Event.

[JonInMiddleGA]

I think there's probably some of that happening but in TNA's case I really believe that it's more a reflection on how bad the booking has been for more than a year now. Basically to the point that even the regular viewers (heck maybe especially the regular viewers) have reached the point of expecting to see things screwed up. Which means that you can watch the early part of the show to keep track of the storyline but that the matches themselves aren't really required viewing.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Meanwhile, at the risk (I guess) of the tiniest bit of social commentary ...
I think DX sparking the first U-S-A chant of the night kind of says a lot about where we are these days ;)

(although I kind of wonder how many of the people in uniform in Iraq really remember the DX heyday clearly)

[DaddyTorgo]

I think there's probably some of that happening but in TNA's case I really believe that it's more a reflection on how bad the booking has been for more than a year now. Basically to the point that even the regular viewers (heck maybe especially the regular viewers) have reached the point of expecting to see things screwed up. Which means that you can watch the early part of the show to keep track of the storyline but that the matches themselves aren't really required viewing.

so you're pretty much agreeing with me then?