Pro Wrestling Discussion Thread **Spoilers Possible**

[duckman]

Today, I learn that Vince McMahon really loves Dicks. :D

[duckman]

The championship match tonight was done really well. I like how they let both Cena and RVD come down the ramp before Lillian did her announcing. It gave it a championsip match feel.

[klayman]

I'm not positive, but I think pro wrestling might be fake.

and some of the athletes might be using steroids. :D

/Post made in jest
//former Pro Wrestling Fan

[duckman]

I'm not positive, but I think pro wrestling might be fake.

and some of the athletes might be using steroids. :D

/Post made in jest
//former Pro Wrestling Fan

HAR!

[klayman]

Sorry

[JonInMiddleGA]

Today, I learn that Vince McMahon really loves Dicks. :D

Does the name Pat Patterson mean anything to you?
;)

[duckman]

Does the name Pat Patterson mean anything to you?
;)

Never heard of him. ;)

[Vegas Vic]

I'm not positive, but I think pro wrestling might be fake.



A more accurate description would be "choreographed”. There’s nothing fake about the torn anterior cruciate ligaments, herniated disks, separated shoulders, concussions, broken collarbones, etc.

[Joe]

A more accurate description would be "choreographed”. There’s nothing fake about the torn anterior cruciate ligaments, herniated disks, separated shoulders, concussions, broken collarbones, etc.

there is when they claim a fake injury on TV to get a guy some time off :D

[klayman]

A more accurate description would be "choreographed”. There’s nothing fake about the torn anterior cruciate ligaments, herniated disks, separated shoulders, concussions, broken collarbones, etc.

Hey, I said I wasn't positive :)

[molson]

Check out this video of the Undertaker's highly controversial new gimmick. I think it could really take off.

hxxp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c27mDqVjyqc&search=breaking%20fab

Oh ya, and TV is absolutely littered with fake entertainment - pro wrestling, Law and Order, CSI, Desperate Housewives, The Simpsons, American Idol, Survivor, and the NBA, just to name a few.

[duckman]

Here's some news regarding the new ECW show:

hxxp://www.411mania.com/wrestling/news/42324/Vince-McMahon-Looks-To-Be-Taking-Control-of-ECW.htm

The latest word on the power struggle for control of the new ECW is that Vince McMahon has taken back most of the control and is moving it forward in the direction he wants it to go. Paul Heyman was given control last week after the negative response to the debut episode of ECW On Sci-Fi in which his ideas were mostly changed/dropped by McMahon, but McMahon now seems to be back in control.

Credit: WrestlingObserver.com

So it looks like ole Vinny Mac is going to pry the one thing that Paul Heyman can do right away from him: To run a show. I guess he'll be like Eric Bischoff and just be a character on the show.

[duckman]

dola

ECW did a 2.2 last night. It's been slowly going down each week. I wonder if Sci-Fi will keep the show if it continues to slip in the ratings?

[Schmidty]

dola

ECW did a 2.2 last night. It's been slowly going down each week. I wonder if Sci-Fi will keep the show if it continues to slip in the ratings?

It's an awful show. It's like TNA's ugly step-sister.

[duckman]

It's an awful show. It's like TNA's ugly step-sister.

Personally, I like the last two shows because of the main events. The rest of the show was pretty bland.

[Schmidty]

Personally, I like the last two shows because of the main events. The rest of the show was pretty bland.

I have always hated ECW. Add in the fact that the shows have been poor, and you can see that I am pretty biased.

[Neuqua]

Check out this video of the Undertaker's highly controversial new gimmick. I think it could really take off.



lol

[Jas_lov]

It's the same show every week. An opening match, a stupid vampire, the exhibitionist stripping which gets stopped, sandmann hits someone with a stick 3 times, big show destroys tommy dreamer, main event. Has that not been the ECW show the past 2 weeks? There's only one hour and they waste it by filling it with crap instead of longer matches.

[duckman]

It's the same show every week. An opening match, a stupid vampire, the exhibitionist stripping which gets stopped, sandmann hits someone with a stick 3 times, big show destroys tommy dreamer, main event. Has that not been the ECW show the past 2 weeks? There's only one hour and they waste it by filling it with crap instead of longer matches.

I agree with you. I think that they would be better served if they had 3-4 long matches (10-20 minutes apiece). Eventually, the audience (both the live and TV) is going to get tired of the same matches.

I hope the Dreamer/Big Show angle pays off eventually as well.

[Neon_Chaos]

"THANK YOU SIR. MAY I HAVE ANOTHER!?" classic.

[Ryche]

According to one of the websites I read, SciFi was hoping to pull in a 1.1 rating for the show, so they are probably quite happy with how well it has been doing.

The first show was awful, the last couple have been improving. They're going to be losing Angle for awhile as he needs to take some time off to heal some injuries, but it sounds like CM Punk will be showing up soon, so I have some hope. Especially once they get the WWE belt off Van Dam so Edge and Cena will go away.

[jbmagic]

Test is coming too.

[Terps]

Punk, Doring & Roadkill, Francine, and C.W. Anderson have been appearing on house shows. Not sure why they haven't been on TV yet.

[Toddzilla]

I read on the Torch website that VKM has indeed taken control of the show. Jeez, what a power trip that guy is on. I mean, would it be so bad if Heyman was allowed to have control of the "promotion", let him book it himself, tape it in a small arena? Heaven forbid ECW become a compelling viable product.

[Guelph Spartan]

I think the biggest problem with the way the ECW show's are being run right now is that Vince genuinely thought that he could slap the letters ECW on ANYTHING and people would turn out in droves, just like they did for the previous ECW DVD releases. That hasn't exactly happened, but I wouldn't call it a failure either.

Enough has been said about the first episode of ECW TV and I would prefer not to acknowledge it's existence anymore, but I can honestly say that I have enjoyed the last two shows. Both had some of the better TV matches I have seen in awhile, and I love that they have turned RVD into "everybody’s favorite wrestler" again. :) In fact, the only thing I really can't stand are the "Kelly" segments. Jim Cornette (sp) said it best, "if I wanted porn, I'd watch porn".

Does it feel like the "old ECW"? No. One of the key ingredients that it's lacking is the fan interaction. You don't have the intimacy of a smaller venue taping after Smackdown!. But it does feel different from RAW, even if everybody that gets significant air time is actually from RAW.

ECW will not exist long if it is just a one hour ad for RAW, and that is my biggest fear as to where it is going.

[Toddzilla]

Yep - I bought tix to see Smackdown in DC on the 15th of August. It is billed as "Smackdown / ECW", so they plan on keeping ECW far removed from what helped to make it popular and tape it in a giant arena.

[JonInMiddleGA]

re: TNA Impact 6/29

See, it's not impossible to have storylines that make sense. The whole Sting/Cage sub-plot makes sense in the context that it's being presented in. And Cage's acting is actually selling the storyline. Okay, it's not Oscar-worthy stuff but it does enhance the plot, his facial expressions & body language match the story that's being told. And that's how it's supposed to work.

Meanwhile, they've done what had to be done by getting the X Division Title back in play and TAFKA Lo-Ki is the right man to carry the belt for a while.

Of course, nothing is without problems. The LAX storyline needs to be dropped muy pronto. I'm also not happy that Diamonds in the Rough have basically been told they aren't needed for the rest of the summer (although I'm mostly unhappy about that because I know David Young a little bit & think he's a helluva good guy and one of the best sellers on the roster). They also still have to produce the only satisfactory ending to the Nash-Sabin feud and since Nash reportedly has complete creative control of his storylines I'm not going to relax until Sabin pins him clean.

And I like the Eric Young comedy bits, it's good usage of him at the moment & plays well into the impending dissolution of Team Canada.

[DeToxRox]

re: TNA Impact 6/29

See, it's not impossible to have storylines that make sense. The whole Sting/Cage sub-plot makes sense in the context that it's being presented in. And Cage's acting is actually selling the storyline. Okay, it's not Oscar-worthy stuff but it does enhance the plot, his facial expressions & body language match the story that's being told. And that's how it's supposed to work.

Meanwhile, they've done what had to be done by getting the X Division Title back in play and TAFKA Lo-Ki is the right man to carry the belt for a while.

Of course, nothing is without problems. The LAX storyline needs to be dropped muy pronto. I'm also not happy that Diamonds in the Rough have basically been told they aren't needed for the rest of the summer (although I'm mostly unhappy about that because I know David Young a little bit & think he's a helluva good guy and one of the best sellers on the roster). They also still have to produce the only satisfactory ending to the Nash-Sabin feud and since Nash reportedly has complete creative control of his storylines I'm not going to relax until Sabin pins him clean.

And I like the Eric Young comedy bits, it's good usage of him at the moment & plays well into the impending dissolution of Team Canada.


It's a shame TNA's best mix of compelling character/awesome wrestler Homicide is relegated to a stupid racisim angle. The guy can go hardcore and wrestle. Imagine New Jack with talent and not so pyscho. A Homicide/Low Ki(Senshi) feud would be awesome, but it won't happen.

[JonInMiddleGA]

It's a shame TNA's best mix of compelling character/awesome wrestler Homicide is relegated to a stupid racisim angle.

If the dirt sheets are accurate, Homicide's status is compromised because of some backstage heat. For whatever reason(s) the guy has been apparently about as popular with management as a case of the clap. But in an old interview (http://www.obsessedwithwrestling.com/columns/interviews/homicide.html)(July 2004) he speaks highly of Cornette so that's at least one more relationship that he might build on & get back into the mix.

Yeah, I know, Cornette's not really running the show but often it seems that the more people you have saying things in your favor backstage then the better your standing becomes.

[General Mike]

They also still have to produce the only satisfactory ending to the Nash-Sabin feud and since Nash reportedly has complete creative control of his storylines I'm not going to relax until Sabin pins him clean.

Nash isn't going to relax until he pins Joe clean, so I guess we have a bit of a problem. The best thing to do is pray for Nash to blow out his knee seconds after climbing into the ring, and then we don't have to see him for another year.

[saldana]

going back to Monday night's episode of raw, was anyone else laughing out loud at Vince's music video...i meant to slow it down and look at the "musicians" to see who they were, i know one was jake roberts, but i could have sworn the one in the middle was jerry lawler. that was some funny ass shit, imo.

[duckman]

going back to Monday night's episode of raw, was anyone else laughing out loud at Vince's music video...i meant to slow it down and look at the "musicians" to see who they were, i know one was jake roberts, but i could have sworn the one in the middle was jerry lawler. that was some funny ass shit, imo.

Yeah, that whole segment with DX was hilarious. Shawn hopping around like he had ADHD was a riot. HHH doing his worst Vinny Mac impersonation was golden. The video was just the icing on the cake for me. :D

[Schmidty]

:kiss: going back to Monday night's episode of raw, was anyone else laughing out loud at Vince's music video...i meant to slow it down and look at the "musicians" to see who they were, i know one was jake roberts, but i could have sworn the one in the middle was jerry lawler. that was some funny ass shit, imo.

I was totally laughing, but I think it went on a bit long.

[duckman]

Doh!

hxxp://www.411mania.com/wrestling/news/42445/WWE-ECW-News:-RVD-and-Sabu-Cited-on-Drug-Charges.htm
In a story reported by The Ironton Tribune today, Rob Van Dam and Sabu were stopped Sunday night by the Ohio State Highway Patrol and cited for drug possession.

Troopers found RVD in possession of 18 grams of marijuana and five Vicodin, while Sabu was charged with possession of drug paraphernalia and also had nine pills that were not immediately identifiable, but were known to be controlled substances. They were both cited and then posted bond.

They are scheduled to appear at 10 a.m. Thursday in Ironton Municipal Court. No word on what, if any, punishment will be served up by WWE.


This will be the first major test for the new Wellness Program now that their champion and a major player in their new brand extension have been caught with illegal drugs.

I have a feeling that the punishments will not be severe though. They have too much riding with getting the new ECW off the ground. I will suspect that they may strip the title off of RVD and job them both to death, but I don't think that they will lose any days at work.

[duckman]

Are they going to be terminated?

hxxp://www.wwe.com/inside/news/22092481
13. DISCIPLINE FOR VIOLATION OF LAW
Any Talent who is arrested, convicted or who admits to a violation of law relating to use, possession, purchase, sale or distribution of prohibited drugs will be in material breach of contract and subject to immediate dismissal.


Edit--found the article on WWE.com

[Deattribution]

I doubt anyone in the WWE is surprised RVD smokes pot, who doesn't know he is a pot-head? I'd say that's a big reason why he never got a push, and low and behold when they give him one.....


And as far as the vicodin go, it's reasonable to think that after the guy wrestled 3 nights in a row, and 4 times in a week that he may have been using them for actual medical purposes.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Are they going to be terminated?

I'd be amazed if VKM actually stepped up & did that, but then again, him doing anything right qualifies as amazing.

Personally, I'd just like to take a baseball bat to both guys for their stupidity. Sucks to be a parent & try to explain crap like this to your kid. Then again, my son's most common question about baseball is "do you think XYZ is using steroids" so I guess this wasn't a big shock to him either, just disappointing.

[Flasch186]

shoot, i d think Sabu Couldnt get out of bed without prescription drugs to dull the pain of destroying his body over the life of his wrestling career.

[Joe]

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c199/dcbinator/Ext_cov.gif

[Terps]

WWE.com:

In the wake of being faced with five violations, including drug possession, by the Ohio State Highway Patrol, WWE.com reports that Rob Van Dam and Sabu arrived at the Wachovia Center in Philadelphia at 1:30 p.m. today and immediately went into a meeting with Vice President of Talent Relations John Laurinaitis.

Following the meeting, Mr. Laurinaitis told WWE.com that Rob Van Dam and Sabu will be eligible to compete tonight on RAW and tomorrow night at ECW on Sci Fi while an ongoing investigation is being conducted by World Wrestling Entertainment. The two men will be appearing in court Thursday morning at Ironton Municipal Court.

Will be interesting to see how they deal with it. I could care less if either of them, or both of them, were fired.

Doubt that they will be since Masters is just off of TV for being on the juice, and Joey Mercury is off TV for drugs as well. So they might just do the same with RVD & Sabu.

[duckman]

Looks like they are taking the title off RVD.

[MacroGuru]

In all honesty, I am trying to watch this....and I can't, I really can't take it......

[duckman]

Vince loves cocks! hahaha

[Deattribution]

No surprise with that finish, RVD can say goodbye to his push for a long time - too bad since he was working pretty hard.

[Terps]

lol @ The King: "RVD's title run goes up in smoke."

HHH also took a dig at the creative team during the BBQ segment: "Who's writing this shit?"

[Terps]

Dola,

I'm assuming RVD will be losing the ECW title tomorrow now.

[duckman]

Dola,

I'm assuming RVD will be losing the ECW title tomorrow now.

I would think so. He's probably going to rehab if he wants to keep his job.

[Schmidty]

I would think so. He's probably going to rehab if he wants to keep his job.

Rehab for POT?

I've never smoked ANYTHING, and have certainly never used drugs, but isn't rehab a little ridiculous for a pot smoker? That's like sending a guy who's found with a 12 pack of Natty Light to the Betty Ford clinic.

[duckman]

Rehab for POT?

I've never smoked ANYTHING, and have certainly never used drugs, but isn't rehab a little ridiculous for a pot smoker? That's like sending a guy who's found with a 12 pack of Natty Light to the Betty Ford clinic.

The dude is a pill popper too.

[Joe]

Big Show is the new ECW champ.

ECW is officially dead.

[duckman]

I think it was brilliant. The reaction by the crowd was priceless.

[Schmidty]

Big Show is the new ECW champ.

ECW is officially dead.

Thank goodness.

[jbmagic]

So RVD and Sabu is suspended for awhile now?

[Joe]

So RVD and Sabu is suspended for awhile now?

probably at least suspended. Chris Masters has been suspended since late May for steroids, so probably it will be worse for them for the drugs + being arrested.

[Flasch186]

Thank goodness.

unbelievable how snuffed out our expectations can bewhen it comes to VKM.

[Neuqua]

I tried. I really did, but I can't watch it.

[TazFTW]

So RVD and Sabu is suspended for awhile now?

The WWE website has RVD being suspended for 30 days.

[Ryche]

Not sure where ECW goes from here. Who exactly do they put up against the Big Show with RVD and Sabu suspended and Kurt Angle out of action to let some injuries heal. The storyline could actually work well, but I don't know that they have the players needed.

At least CM Punk made his debut, even if it was only a quick vignette. Looks like they're not changing his persona, so he could move up pretty quickly.

[TazFTW]

Despite the result I thought the RVD/Big Show match wasn't half bad. I liked the powerbomb/chair shot spot and the crowd reaction to the ending was great.

Loved the "You take steroids" chant at Test and the "Marijuana" chant during the RVD match. Dang, smart marks...

[Neon_Chaos]

Looks like it's put up or shut-up time for the WWE Wellness program.

http://www.wwe.com/inside/news/22092481

13. DISCIPLINE FOR VIOLATION OF LAW
Any Talent who is arrested, convicted or who admits to a violation of law relating to use, possession, purchase, sale or distribution of prohibited drugs will be in material breach of contract and subject to immediate dismissal.

[Maple Leafs]

Well, "subject to" means the company has the option. It does not mean it's a mandatory result.

[duckman]

According to WWE.com, RVD has been suspended for 30 days (at least in the storyline).

[MikeVic]

I wonder what happens to Sabu? Considering he had a promo on last night's show... I don't think he'll get more than the same suspension RVD got.

I don't know about Big Show as ECW champ. Will he feud with Dreamer now over the title?

[Desmond]

I don't know about Big Show as ECW champ. Will he feud with Dreamer now over the title?

Battle of the backfat?

[Guelph Spartan]

I am desperately trying to remain positive about this whole situation so here are few thoughts...

1) This could actually be a good thing... wrestling almost always works better with a heel champion with a face chasing the title. So if they can turn this into RVD chasing the title back (which really never happened considering he was given the ECW belt) it could end up being a very strong program. Big Show represents everything ECW should not be, and at the same time, is exactly what Vince's ECW has become. It all depends on Dreamer and Big Show keeping the fire hot for the next 30 days.

2) The debut of CM Punk could not have come at a more perfect time considering his “straight edge” lifestyle/gimmick. Would have liked him to have a little more time to get that across, but hopefully this will come next week.

3) OK, so there isn’t a third good point, this sux :(

[Desmond]

Heres the deal, old ECW fans could give a shit about the product at this point. WWE fans could give a shit about the product at this point. See where the problem lies? Outside of CM Punk I have zero need to watch this show ever again so i'll just take to downloading it and skipping to his segment.

[duckman]

Here are the punishments regarding RVD and Sabu:

hxxp://www.wwe.com/inside/news/rvdsabucharges
WWE announced today that based on information gathered over the past few days, Van Dam has been suspended without pay for 30 days and Sabu has been fined $1000.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Just an odd curiosity that's crossed my mind a few times over the years -- how exactly is Terry Brunk "fined" X amount by the WWE?

I mean, is being subject to "fines" for guys who are ultimately just contract employees of a corporation something that is spelled out contractually or in a case like this is it merely a euphemism for "we're docking your pay by X amount".

edit to attempt to clarify what I mean -- Usually wrestlers are "fined" in the context of kayfabe but in this case (and a couple of recent TNA mentions in the dirt sheets), the word is being used in the same manner that an organization like MLB or the NFL levies a fine as a penalty. In those cases, I assume that it's something spelled out as a possibility in the collective bargaining process, or in the case of NASCAR it'd be a disciplinary process spelled out as part of the membership agreement ... but pro wrestling really has neither of those things, so I'm wondering how these types of fines are actually handled.

[MikeVic]

Here are the punishments regarding RVD and Sabu:

hxxp://www.wwe.com/inside/news/rvdsabucharges

Only a $1000 fine for Sabu? I thought he was charged with the more serious offense? No suspension at all is a joke.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Meanwhile, back in the Impact Zone ... Samoa Joe channels both Mike Tyson & Taz to cut a promo for Victory Road ;)

Meanwhile, Rhino's taped promo really was what Don West said: the most passionate thing we've ever heard from him.

Y'know, between Rhino & Joe and the recent body of work from Christian, I believe TNA is fully one step closer to being able to transition away from using the older workers to provide personality. Of course, on the other end of the spectrum there's Monty Brown, a man who should be kept as far away from a microphone as possible. If anything, I think he may be regressing ... and that's a scary thought.

Meanwhile, somebody ought to have Andy Douglas checked for brain damage.
If the dirt sheets are accurate & he's risked both the planned push and perhaps even his job because he didn't want to get his hair cut for the angle, he's gotta be nuts.

[Toddzilla]

Of course, on the other end of the spectrum there's Monty Brown, a man who should be kept as far away from a microphone as possible. If anything, I think he may be regressing ... and that's a scary thought.Truer words have never been spoken - egads he's awful.

[Guelph Spartan]

Y'know, between Rhino & Joe and the recent body of work from Christian, I believe TNA is fully one step closer to being able to transition away from using the older workers to provide personality

I could not agree more... the thing that has really held TNA back (aside from the juvenile name, why don't they just call it NWA?), has been it's reliance on Jarrett in the main event spot. But something tells me that's not going to change anytime soon.

[Ryche]

Truer words have never been spoken - egads he's awful.

And the Pounce is just flat out awful. If he hits it perfectly it looks ok. More often it looks like he jumps in his opponent's general direction and they fall like a soccer player.

[albionmoonlight]

Just an odd curiosity that's crossed my mind a few times over the years -- how exactly is Terry Brunk "fined" X amount by the WWE?

I mean, is being subject to "fines" for guys who are ultimately just contract employees of a corporation something that is spelled out contractually or in a case like this is it merely a euphemism for "we're docking your pay by X amount".

edit to attempt to clarify what I mean -- Usually wrestlers are "fined" in the context of kayfabe but in this case (and a couple of recent TNA mentions in the dirt sheets), the word is being used in the same manner that an organization like MLB or the NFL levies a fine as a penalty. In those cases, I assume that it's something spelled out as a possibility in the collective bargaining process, or in the case of NASCAR it'd be a disciplinary process spelled out as part of the membership agreement ... but pro wrestling really has neither of those things, so I'm wondering how these types of fines are actually handled.

Me, too. MLB, NFL, etc. have a collective bargaining agreement where the process for fines is created. And, I am sure, the fines all end up going to some third party charity that is neither the league or the union.

Here, does WWE just keep the money? I guess that it does not really matter in the end since they have the right to fire him and I am sure that he'd just rather give up the cash.

But it would be really strange for me to show up for work on Monday and have my boss say, "We caught you stealing paperclips from the supply closet last week, so we are going to pay you $1,000 less this month."

Fines are just weird outside of the organized sports context.

[molson]

Just an odd curiosity that's crossed my mind a few times over the years -- how exactly is Terry Brunk "fined" X amount by the WWE?

I mean, is being subject to "fines" for guys who are ultimately just contract employees of a corporation something that is spelled out contractually or in a case like this is it merely a euphemism for "we're docking your pay by X amount".


It's another example of the many benefits the WWE gets from making sure that the talent are legally considered "independent contractors" rather than "employees".

I'm sure the WWE's lawyers work to maintain this distinction, but it sure does seem teneous, considering that the talent isn't allowed to work in a wrestling capacity for anyone else, and the WWE controls every aspect of how the talent does their job.

[Guelph Spartan]

Not to get too lawyer on you all but, it would be next to impossible for Vince to maintain his roster as independent contractors.

Taken from the IRS website:
Who is an Independent Contractor?
A general rule is that you, the payer, have the right to control or direct only the result of the work done by an independent contractor, and not the means and methods of accomplishing the result

Which leads to the argument that since Vince/Pat Patterson/whoever lays out the match, then they are exhibiting control over their work. What happens when a workers such as Flair, who likes to call it in the ring, is probably not a situation that the IRS intended on deciding.

Further,

To determine whether an individual is an employee or independent contractor under the common law, the relationship of the worker and the business must be examined. All evidence of control and independence must be considered. In an employee-independent contractor determination, all information that provides evidence of the degree of control and degree of independence must be considered.

The bottom line is this: Vince controls what matches they will have, what public appearances they will have, what TV show they will appear on, how much TV time they will get, and most importantly; the ultimate winner of their match. If the key in determining independent contractor/employee is control, there is no doubt that Vince has the control.

[molson]

Not to get too lawyer on you all but, it would be next to impossible for Vince to maintain his roster as independent contractors.


I absolutely agree, which is why I'm so puzzled that the distinction has apparently survived in the business.

Of course, wrestlers aren't likely to challenge the WWE legally, for fear of being blacklisted

[Guelph Spartan]

You are completely right... the key word is "blacklisted".

It's the same reason that there are no wrestling unions... nobody will dare stand up to Vince. Especially now that he is the only show in town (TNA isn't a truly viable option yet).

[Toddzilla]

Getting back to TNA potentially using older wreslters primarily to give the younger guys a rub...that is why I really like them signing Scott Steiner. He may be awful in the ring - not as bad as most old guys - but he's always been willing to put a younger guy over in the ring. He did it in WCW a ton in the last months of the company, and he'll probably be a good company guy for TNA. Hell, he did the job for Joe, didn't he?

[JonInMiddleGA]

and he'll probably be a good company guy for TNA. Hell, he did the job for Joe, didn't he?

He's a guy that I was truly & genuinely disgusted by seeing get a contract at all but I can't disagree one bit that, to this point at least, has performed not only a valuable role but performed it well in the process.

I still don't trust him not to cause problems outside the ring, heck I still don't trust TNA not to screw this up & decide to start putting the guy over, but I can't argue with the usage or the results so far.

Which brings me to continued concerns about whether the Nash/Sabin angle will get screwed up when all is said & done. The upcoming tag match is obviously feud filler and is meant to extend the storyline another month. It's not exciting but at least I understand the purpose of it. But the payoff needs to come in August, and nothing other than a clean pin by Sabin is an acceptable outcome. But the phrase "creative control" worries me greatly, especially when Nash is involved.

edit to add -- You also brought up a good general point about the use of the overall use of veterans to provide a rub. I think it's been interesting to watch how Sting has actually provided that for Christian through an angle, rather than by losing. Not unheard of, but not the most common way of doing it either. I think that's roughly the same thing that was underway with Shane Douglas & The Naturals, albeit to a far lesser degree.

A bigger topic for another time perhaps, but it might be interesting to go back sometime & look at various stars to see how much "the rub" affected their careers versus those who never got one but got over in spite of that. That notion came to mind as I was thinking about some guys who are over but haven't gone that route to get there, Styles particularly came to mind as someone who got over on their own skill set more than anything else.

[DeToxRox]

TNA signed Homicide.

About f'ing time.

Now they need to use the guy.

[saldana]

this weeks raw blows....over an hour into the show, and there has only been one match plus a diva match....and dx hasnt even shown up yet.

[saldana]

dola, and who exactly are they trying to entice to watch ECW tomorrow by setting up a Big Show vs. Ric Flair title match.....that is destined to be shitty.

[MikeVic]

I couldn't watch all of RAW. Not because I didn't set aside the time, but because it sucked. Since when can another brand's wrestlers just show up on the other brands? I ignored it for a bit, but hate it now. These are supposed to be three separate "brands," yet with ECW recaps on RAW and Smackdown and Heyman and Big Show showing up on RAW freely... this is stupid.

[Terps]

I hate all the brand extensions. I haven't watched Smackdown since it became it's own brand. ECW may as well be considered another extension, named WWECW. Vince should rename Smackdown to WCW.

If that's not bad enough, rumors are that Vince wants to add two more brand extensions in the next couple of years. Ugh.

[saldana]

i barely finished watching it last night....possibly the worst episode of raw ever....i didnt even tivo the disaster that is sure to be ecw for tonight...it would hurt too much

[Joe]

Big Show vs. Ric Flair. Just like the good old days in ECW

[saldana]

Big Show vs. Ric Flair. Just like the good old days in ECW

yeah, 10 years ago before flair was collecting social security!!! there is absolutley no spot those two can run tonight or angle they can play that will not suck

[DeToxRox]

I am watching ECW tonight to see CM Punk. He's my only reason for watching.

[DeToxRox]

Dola - no garunteers he even debuts in the ring tonight.

[JonInMiddleGA]

As bad as this WWECW trainwreck is, there could be at least some trivial value in having Flair pull off the upset tonight, as it would make him the only person to have won World Titles in the NWA, WCW, WWF/E, and ECW.

Odd bit of wrestling trivia for you: prior to RVD & Big Slow accomplishing the feat in the new (mockery of) ECW, there were two previous wrestlers that had won both an ECW World Title and another recognized World Title (as acknowledged by PWI)

Can you name them (without looking it up)?

For the record, one of them I would have gotten but the other had slipped my mind.

[TazFTW]

Snuka and Shane Douglas?

[saldana]

eddie guerrero and chris benoit? (never watched a ton of ecw, so i dont know if they ever had the belt)

[molson]

Terry Funk would be one. No idea about the other - Neither Benoit nor guerrero were ECW champs.

[molson]

Dola - would Raven count? (TNA and ECW)

[WVUFAN]

eddie guerrero and chris benoit? (never watched a ton of ecw, so i dont know if they ever had the belt)

TazFTW is right -- Snuka was the first ECW Champion, and Shane Douglas is a former NWA Champion.

[JonInMiddleGA]

TazFTW -- Nope. Snuka never won any other top title despite challenging for them on numerious occasions and Douglas isn't counted because the ECW WHT was not "recognized" as a World Title until after the show debuted on TNN in 1999.

saldana -- Nope. Neither of those two great young lions ever won the top title in ECW.

[Maple Leafs]

Steve Corino and Rhino have been TNA/NWA champs.

[JonInMiddleGA]

molson - Funk misses the same way Snuka & Douglas missed, the "recognition" stipulation I mentioned. Ditto Raven.

That's actually an even bigger "catch" to the question than I first realized (as I had forgotten that Funk would also qualify).

By my own reckoning (as opposed to PWI's), I would have counted Douglas' second reign (the night he threw down the NWA title marking the starting point & not truly a double) as the first, then Funk in April '97, and Raven's ECW reign in early '96 becoming eligible as the third when he won the NWA title in June of '06.

But none of those are the two I was referring to.

[JonInMiddleGA]

And MapleLeafs gets the answers I was looking for. Rhino was obvious to me but Corino's 2 month run in ECW was what I initially forgot about.

Another odd thing about Corino's reigns was that he lost both belts in 3-way dances -- ECW's to Sandman & Justin Credible and the NWA to Shinya Hashimoto & Gary Steele. Maybe not unique, but it seems unusual to lose two world titles that way.

[Joe]

As bad as this WWECW trainwreck is, there could be at least some trivial value in having Flair pull off the upset tonight, as it would make him the only person to have won World Titles in the NWA, WCW, WWF/E, and ECW.

Odd bit of wrestling trivia for you: prior to RVD & Big Slow accomplishing the feat in the new (mockery of) ECW, there were two previous wrestlers that had won both an ECW World Title and another recognized World Title (as acknowledged by PWI)

Can you name them (without looking it up)?

For the record, one of them I would have gotten but the other had slipped my mind.

Mike Awesome

[sabotai]

Was Chris Jericho one of them?

[duckman]

Was Chris Jericho one of them?

I don't think so. I believe that his stint was very short there before jumping to WCW.

[sabotai]

I don't think so. I believe that his stint was very short there before jumping to WCW.

I looked him up and he had the ECW World TV Title (don't know if Jon meant "any" World title or "the" World title)

[JonInMiddleGA]

Well, that was ... gratuitious.

As well as unfulfilling and sad in a number of ways.

[duckman]

Well, that was ... gratuitious.

As well as unfulfilling and sad in a number of ways.

I find it funny how Flair went on in his book about Foley yet he allowed himself to be booked in this style of match. He did a lot of the things Foley did in his prime. I guess the almighty dollar speaks loudly. *shrug*

[General Mike]

Odd bit of wrestling trivia for you: prior to RVD & Big Slow accomplishing the feat in the new (mockery of) ECW, there were two previous wrestlers that had won both an ECW World Title and another recognized World Title (as acknowledged by PWI)

Can you name them (without looking it up)?

For the record, one of them I would have gotten but the other had slipped my mind.

Terry Funk is one of them.

Edit: I really should read more before I post.

[condors]

didn't "superstar" steve austin lose the title to mikey? maybe he didn't have the title though i can't remember exactly but mick foley and steve austin are my guesses

[JonInMiddleGA]

didn't "superstar" steve austin lose the title to mikey? maybe he didn't have the title though i can't remember exactly but mick foley and steve austin are my guesses

Whipwreck won the title from Sandman & then lost it back to Sandman about six weeks later in a 3-way match that also included Austin.

Meanwhile, MapleLeafs answered the question about 10 posts ago -- Rhino & Steve Corino were the two that the question was looking for.

[TazFTW]

So RVD loses 2 titles and is suspended for 30 days while Sabu gets a week off and a DQ because it wasn't an extreme rules match?

[General Mike]

So RVD loses 2 titles and is suspended for 30 days while Sabu gets a week off and a DQ because it wasn't an extreme rules match?

Well the weed was RVD's, and he had a prescription for the mystery pills.

[duckman]

Looks like people are still tuning in:

ECW On Sci-Fi last night did a 2.4 rating, its second best rating yet. Despite heavy criticism towards the show, it continues to perform well beyond the expectations from both WWE and Sci-Fi.

Credit: WrestlingObserver.com

I've been watching strictly for the main events. There has been some good ones the past few weeks.

Okay, maybe to see Kelly too. :)

[TazFTW]

Ugh, Big Show = Ratings?

[Toddzilla]

Man, TNA looks better and better all the time. Kinda strange for a company that rarely, if ever, does house shows. I haven't been to see wrestling since Starrcade 2000 (Bret Hart's 1st appearance in WCW as guest referee), and I would be all over a TNA house show in DC.

[saldana]

Man, TNA looks better and better all the time. Kinda strange for a company that rarely, if ever, does house shows. I haven't been to see wrestling since Starrcade 2000 (Bret Hart's 1st appearance in WCW as guest referee), and I would be all over a TNA house show in DC.


their shows are free to anyone at Universal Studios Orlando...they just recently started doing shows outside of that arena, but i dont know where a listing of them is.

[DeToxRox]

their shows are free to anyone at Universal Studios Orlando...they just recently started doing shows outside of that arena, but i dont know where a listing of them is.

Their first non Orlando PPV is next month (I believe, but October kind of sounds familiar too) in Detroit. I'll be there.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Only 2 events outside of Orlando currently scheduled for TNA, both are promoted in conjunction with the UWF (Hermie Sadler's promotion)

July 21, 2006
Senator Bob Martin Eastern Agricultural Center
Williamston, NC 27892 (252) 792-5802

July 22, 2006
Jacksonville Commons Recreation Center
Jacksonville, NC 28541

from http://www.tnawrestling.com/news/fullnews2.php?all=683

[DeToxRox]

Only 2 events outside of Orlando currently scheduled for TNA, both are promoted in conjunction with the UWF (Hermie Sadler's promotion)

July 21, 2006
Senator Bob Martin Eastern Agricultural Center
Williamston, NC 27892 (252) 792-5802

July 22, 2006
Jacksonville Commons Recreation Center
Jacksonville, NC 28541

from http://www.tnawrestling.com/news/fullnews2.php?all=683

Yeah -- I think it's October. My buddy is currently training with Truth Martini, who trained a lot of guys (Like Alex Shelley) and Martini told them about it, assuming he heard it from a Shelley or the like.

[molson]

Man, TNA looks better and better all the time. Kinda strange for a company that rarely, if ever, does house shows. I haven't been to see wrestling since Starrcade 2000 (Bret Hart's 1st appearance in WCW as guest referee), and I would be all over a TNA house show in DC.

There's also a lot of small promotions that essentially run TNA cards, with TNA wrestlers, even though they're not promoting under the TNA banner. (Most of the TNA guys aren't exclusive). You might be able to find a show like that in the DC area.

[MikeVic]

I would love for a Winnipeg show to include guys like Joe, Styles, Daniels, and Petey Williams...

[JonInMiddleGA]

There's also a lot of small promotions that essentially run TNA cards, with TNA wrestlers, even though they're not promoting under the TNA banner. (Most of the TNA guys aren't exclusive). You might be able to find a show like that in the DC area.

And there's even more promotions that include 1 or 2 TNA guys on a given night.

Senshi lost in the main event at a suburban roller rink north of Atlanta the night before appearing at the last PPV in Orlando. He's booked to return (ostensibly for revenge) the night before the upcoming PPV. And this is a pretty low end indy we're talking about, very likely that nobody here has ever heard of any of the other wrestlers they use regularly.

Point being, a lot of the guys work a lot outside of TNA, it just takes some digging to find them sometimes.

[JonInMiddleGA]

See folks, every comedy bit doesn't have to be overdone.

It wasn't the Big Wiggle that made me LOL, it was the crossing guard stop sign Norman threw up before it that provided the humor.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Meanwhile, considering the (seemingly) fairly kayfabe fan tendencies of the TNA audience, explain to me exactly how the heck Samoa Joe has remained a face.

I mean, he already broke the unwritten code of the X Division by trying to injure Daniels after winning a match, he abandoned Sting to the hands of Jarrett & Steiner after their tag match. He cuts promos like a heel, his expressions & mannerisms are largely heelish ... but he's arguably the most over guy in the company.

Don't get me wrong, he's a helluva talent & I understand completely why he's such a rising star ... I just don't understand why he generates such overwhelming support from fans that appear oriented toward more traditional faces.

edit to add: There's a lot about Joe that reminds me of Taz in his prime, but that was in front on an ECW crowd that often had reactions that ran contrary to traditional face/heel roles.

[General Mike]

Meanwhile, considering the (seemingly) fairly kayfabe fan tendencies of the TNA audience, explain to me exactly how the heck Samoa Joe has remained a face.

I mean, he already broke the unwritten code of the X Division by trying to injure Daniels after winning a match, he abandoned Sting to the hands of Jarrett & Steiner after their tag match. He cuts promos like a heel, his expressions & mannerisms are largely heelish ... but he's arguably the most over guy in the company.

Don't get me wrong, he's a helluva talent & I understand completely why he's such a rising star ... I just don't understand why he generates such overwhelming support from fans that appear oriented toward more traditional faces.

edit to add: There's a lot about Joe that reminds me of Taz in his prime, but that was in front on an ECW crowd that often had reactions that ran contrary to traditional face/heel roles.

The TNA fans are smarks. There were a heck of a lot more marks in the WWF audience in 97 when Austin became the biggest face in the universe than there are in the "Impact Zone", and I mean percentage wise.

[JonInMiddleGA]

The TNA fans are smarks. There were a heck of a lot more marks in the WWF audience in 97 when Austin became the biggest face in the universe than there are in the "Impact Zone", and I mean percentage wise.

My initial tendency was to chalk it up to the same thing, that it's just the nature of a different modern audience ... until I realized that he was also high on the list of my 8 y/o son's favorites too. Granted, he knows it's all a work, he knows about bookers, angles, shoots, etc. at least in a basic way. But the rest of his reactions to characters are pretty much exclusively along kayfabe lines -- he thinks AJ is the most talented guy he's ever seen, marks big for Sting, hates Jarrett & Steiner, etc., all pretty much the reactions that viewers are "supposed" to have -- except that he's made a clear exception for Joe.

I guess that's what throws me, I don't quite get how he gets the free pass even from the marks.

Shrug. It's not like it matters, I was just sort of intrigued by the anamoly. Maybe he's more of a smart than I'm giving him credit for. After all, after watching the Sabu/Sandman Highway to Hell match for the first time last night, he said he now understood why I've not been excited by the "new" ECW ;)

[SirFozzie]

BTW, that was one hell of a promo by Rhino last night on IMPACT. Goosebump worthy.

[JonInMiddleGA]

BTW, that was one hell of a promo by Rhino last night on IMPACT. Goosebump worthy.

Agreed. 2nd straight week for strong work from him too.

[molson]

I finally just got around to watching Monday's RAW. The Diva search segment was hilarious. That Miz guy flubbed his lines worse than anyone I've ever seen on a nationally televised wrestling show.

[jbmagic]

I finally just got around to watching Monday's RAW. The Diva search segment was hilarious. That Miz guy flubbed his lines worse than anyone I've ever seen on a nationally televised wrestling show.


IF Miz continues to do that, I won't be surprise if he gets replace with the Coach.

[molson]

IF Miz continues to do that, I won't be surprise if he gets replace with the Coach.

I wouldn't be surprised if they made it part of his gimmick.

[wade moore]

Miz? Is this the Miz from Real World/Road Rules?

[albionmoonlight]

My initial tendency was to chalk it up to the same thing, that it's just the nature of a different modern audience ... until I realized that he was also high on the list of my 8 y/o son's favorites too. Granted, he knows it's all a work, he knows about bookers, angles, shoots, etc. at least in a basic way. But the rest of his reactions to characters are pretty much exclusively along kayfabe lines -- he thinks AJ is the most talented guy he's ever seen, marks big for Sting, hates Jarrett & Steiner, etc., all pretty much the reactions that viewers are "supposed" to have -- except that he's made a clear exception for Joe.

I guess that's what throws me, I don't quite get how he gets the free pass even from the marks.

One of the cool things about wrestling is how some guys just get heat, and no one can really explain why. I always give the example of Hacksaw Jim Duggan. I LOVED Duggan growing up. All of my friends loved him. He was totally awesome.

Now, looking back, he was just a guy who said "HOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!" a lot and stomped around the ring for a while. There was no reason to like him. But we did. Now, granted, he was pushed as a face--so it is not quite the same thing as Joe--but I see some similarity there.

Some guys just get the crowd support. And some guys don't. And sometimes (if you are a good booker) you don't try to figure it out. You just work with it.

[jbmagic]

Miz? Is this the Miz from Real World/Road Rules?


yes

He also on Smackdown.

[jbmagic]

One of the cool things about wrestling is how some guys just get heat, and no one can really explain why. I always give the example of Hacksaw Jim Duggan. I LOVED Duggan growing up. All of my friends loved him. He was totally awesome.

Now, looking back, he was just a guy who said "HOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!" a lot and stomped around the ring for a while. There was no reason to like him. But we did. Now, granted, he was pushed as a face--so it is not quite the same thing as Joe--but I see some similarity there.

Some guys just get the crowd support. And some guys don't. And sometimes (if you are a good booker) you don't try to figure it out. You just work with it.


He was a heel too on WCW.

[wade moore]

yes

He also on Smackdown.

Interesting... I might have to watch just to see how he does...

[jbmagic]

Interesting... I might have to watch just to see how he does...


He is not a wrestler.

They got him on Smackdown just doing the introduction who will be wrestling that night.

On raw, they got him being the host for the Diva competition.

[molson]

He is not a wrestler.



He has wrestled in the past, and I've heard he's decent. Not sure if WWE will go that way with him though.

[JonInMiddleGA]

He has wrestled in the past, and I've heard he's decent. Not sure if WWE will go that way with him though.

They seem to be hoping he'll develop into something they can use, looks like he's been given a decent enough run through their developmental territories. He was the champion of Deep South Wrestling (basically their AA minor league territory) before being moved up to work at OVW where he got a run as tag champ.

http://www.obsessedwithwrestling.com/profiles/m/mike-mizanin.html

[saldana]

He has wrestled in the past, and I've heard he's decent. Not sure if WWE will go that way with him though.


he won the last Tough Enough contest, the one that didnt actually have a show of its own, but was intermingled into smackdown....then they did the same thing they always do with those guys...sent him to work in the developmental schools and promotions until he could actually not suck...i am sure at some point they will run an angle to get him into the ring, but from what i have heard, all the guys in the locker room fucking hate him, so i think they are a little apprehensive about actually putting him into matches.

[General Mike]

he won the last Tough Enough contest, the one that didnt actually have a show of its own, but was intermingled into smackdown....then they did the same thing they always do with those guys...sent him to work in the developmental schools and promotions until he could actually not suck...i am sure at some point they will run an angle to get him into the ring, but from what i have heard, all the guys in the locker room fucking hate him, so i think they are a little apprehensive about actually putting him into matches.

Actually Daniel Puder won the last Tough Enough.

[saldana]

Actually Daniel Puder won the last Tough Enough.
you sure? then did miz come in second? they always give contracts to the top 2 finishers, and i cant imagine any other reason that they would have kept miz around.

[jbmagic]

you sure? then did miz come in second? they always give contracts to the top 2 finishers, and i cant imagine any other reason that they would have kept miz around.

Miz never won.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tough_Enough


Tough enough 1 was

Maven (winner)
Nidia (winner)

Tough Enough #2 was

Shaniqua
Jackie

Tough Enough #3 was

John (Johhny Nitro)
Matt Cappotelli (cancel his career because of brain tumor)

[jbmagic]

dola

the 4th Tough Enough was called $1,000,000 Tough Enough.

Miz didn't win it.

Only one winner

Daniel Puder. Puder competed in his first (and only) WWE pay-per-view event on January 30, 2005, being the third entrant in the 2005 Royal Rumble match. Soon after, he was sent to OVW before eventually being released in September 2005.

[jbmagic]

Why did the first diva winner Christy Hemme leave WWE and went to TNA?

[jbmagic]

Interesting things on $1,000,000 Tough Enough

Some finalist that was on the show is on WWE now.

Nick Mitchell (later became part of the Spirit Squad)

Marty Wright (who was cut before the finalists were selected for lying about his age, but was later hired by WWE. He now wrestles as 'The Boogeyman')

Mike Mizanin (who was later hired by WWE, currently working in OVW; Debuted on Smackdown! on the June 2, 2006 edition.)

[Joe]

Why did the first diva winner Christy Hemme leave WWE and went to TNA?

she was released from the WWE due to "budget cuts"

[JonInMiddleGA]

re: TNA House shows

3 new shows under the UWF banner announced this week, tickets went on sale this morning for
Thurs Aug 10 - Charleston, SC
Fri Aug 11 - Columbia, SC
Sat Aug 12 - Anderson, SC

TNA stars scheduled to appear include: AJ Styles, "The Fallen Angel" Christopher Daniels, Samao Joe, The James Gang, America's Most Wanted, Petey Williams, Jay Lethal, Chris Sabin, Rhino, Ron Killings and the monster Abyss (Jeff Jarrett also scheduled for the first two shows)

And guess who has a pair of "Ultimate Fan Package" (pre-show meet & greet, autograph session, and guaranteed seating in either row 1 or 2) for the show in Anderson? :D :D :D

And, lest anyone think I've suddenly gone mark, I thought the pre-show stuff would be extremely cool for Will otherwise I wouldn't have done it. He goes back to school 2 days later, so I thought this would be a killer last-weekend- of-summer thing to do for him, and it works great since Anderson, SC is just 80 miles from our new house (that we are supposedly going to be living in by then).

Anyhow, not really posting cause I'm going, just posting in case there's anybody else who is the area & would be interested.

[DeToxRox]

Some huge Indy matches are signed for ROH after tonights Death Before Dishonor.

KENTA comes back to ROH to take on Bryan Danielson* 9/16 in NYC for the ROH Title.

* Danielson takes on Samoa Joe next month for the title, furthered tonight by Danielson turning on Joe and ROH in the Cage of Death.

Homicide made the save however as it appeared Cornette gave into his 3 demands. Cornette said he gives into 2, which were a rematch with Steve Corino (Presumably at Glory by Honor, same night/place as Danielson/Kenta) and a title shot. His third demand was a match with Low Ki, but Cornette said no, then turned heel on him as Adam Pearce beat down 'Cide.

All in all, definetly things are looking pretty intriguing for ROH down the road.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Indeed, the ROH plot does appear to have thickened. Although I only follow it on the 'net, I really didn't see a Danielson turn coming at all.

[Raiders Army]

I'm sorry, but I can't watch this. The six man tag last night of Mark Henry, King Booker T, and Fit Findlay against Bastista, Rey Misterio Jr., and Bobby (?) Lasher was horrible.

Okay, I get that wrestling is scripted. I also believe that what they do is real to a certain extent. Any way you cut it, you can't fake getting hit with a steel chair (although you can throw your arms up to take the impact). But that six man tag was the worst. Rey Misterio gets beat on and instead of tagging he tries to beat on his opponent, setting it up for no tag. Then Bastista runs out to save him, but the ref holds him back. There is no way a ref is going to hold back Bastista but they made it look like it. It wasn't the whole "he's got his fist in the air" and the ref is holding up his hands to stop him; it was Bastista charging into the ring and the ref physically stopping him. Now, I'm supposed to believe that Bastista wins the match with his fearsome Bastista Bomb when he's stopped by a puny ref?

At least script the matches so they look more realistic. I can handle the midget running out to help Fit Findlay. I can handle DX winning a handicap match (after all, both were multiple WWE champs and Shawn outlasted 29 other people to win the Royal Rumble). I can handle the obvious skits setting up Vince McMahon. I can handle Viscera and (can't remember) fighting over Lillian. What I can't handle is bad scripting during the matches. Ugh.

[DeToxRox]

Mark Henry fractured his patella and tore a tendon in that match, so it looks like his match with Batista is off Sunday.

Smackdown can't catch a break. It's time to just end brand extension once and for all

[DeToxRox]

Indeed, the ROH plot does appear to have thickened. Although I only follow it on the 'net, I really didn't see a Danielson turn coming at all.

Yeah, I've gone to a few ROH shows. I'll; be there October 7th when they're back in Detroit. It's a lot of fun. Some of the fans are obnoxious because they're predominatley marks, but beyond that it's a great time.

[molson]

Mark Henry fractured his patella and tore a tendon in that match, so it looks like his match with Batista is off Sunday.

Smackdown can't catch a break. It's time to just end brand extension once and for all

That sucks for Henry, right in the middle of the biggest push of his career.

I still like the brand extension though. It gives so many more guys a chance, rather than just watching the same angles twice a week.

[DeToxRox]

That sucks for Henry, right in the middle of the biggest push of his career.

I still like the brand extension though. It gives so many more guys a chance, rather than just watching the same angles twice a week.

Yeah I don't mind it if they book it right, but they keep taking all the stars away from SD and treat it like a B rate show.

[duckman]

Yeah I don't mind it if they book it right, but they keep taking all the stars away from SD and treat it like a B rate show.

It's not unusual for them to pull stars during the summer months because they get pre-empted a lot. They usually start putting them back when the fall comes around.

This is why I wished they had moved them to cable. They would get a guaranteed slot instead of having to worry about pre-emption on network television.

[molson]

Yeah I don't mind it if they book it right, but they keep taking all the stars away from SD and treat it like a B rate show.

I'd actually rather see Finlay, etc. than watch DX twice a week.

[DeToxRox]

I'd actually rather see Finlay, etc. than watch DX twice a week.

Oh I agree. I just don't like how they have it mixed. Ratings would improve with an HBK on SD, as well as a Kane. Put some bigger names on it. Opens up more things for everyone.

[JonInMiddleGA]

TNA Victory Road is tonight on PPV
Pre-show match (just started) is Johnny Devine (w/Alex Shelley) vs Shark Boy

I mention this mostly because it just dawned on me how much Shelley reminds me of a young (but post-ECW) Chris Jericho.

[SirFozzie]

Danielson has been rather heelish for a while in RoH.. this was just apparently a ploy to enjure Joe before their title match next month (some folks thought it was because Joe had a TNA main event PPV match the next night.. but the owners of RoH have denied that)

[DeToxRox]

Danielson has been rather heelish for a while in RoH.. this was just apparently a ploy to enjure Joe before their title match next month (some folks thought it was because Joe had a TNA main event PPV match the next night.. but the owners of RoH have denied that)

Yeah, they wanted a true heel in the match and Joe is so over in ROH it'd have to be Danielson. Seems mute at this point, with Danielson vs KENTA in September and the subsequent Danielson/Homicide showdown that will be Mr. ROH vs Mr. Sellout to ROH. That could be the match of the year with how much emotion that ought to be in it

[JonInMiddleGA]

Danielson has been rather heelish for a while in RoH.. this was just apparently a ploy to enjure Joe before their title match next month (some folks thought it was because Joe had a TNA main event PPV match the next night.. but the owners of RoH have denied that)

I managed to find a fairly detailed recap of ROH events last night & according to those, the turn of Cornette and Pearce was planned several months ago but delayed in order to let the CZW angle run its course.

Meanwhile, the Danielson thing sounded somewhat similar to what Joe did to Sting (albeit for different motivation & with different stakes) but I wouldn't be completely surprised if this was less of a heel turn than making AmDrag more of a neutral in the long run. And since Joe's ROH bookings were being scaled down anyway, and Homicide's TNA committments are going to be ramped up considerably next year, I'm not sure whether there's more than 3-6 months left for the two storylines. Yeah, that's plenty of time of course (especially these days), but it almost seems like a lot of effort to put into a pair of feuds that have rather limited options over the long term.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Naturals vs Diamonds In the Rough -- kinda sorry to see the victims of the anticipated squash include David Young, who is much better than he's been allowed ... oops, literally while I was typing this David busted out a moonsault to the floor. If they're gonna be leaving TNA soon as the 'net claims, at least he goes out with a highlight moment.

Meanwhile, I'm not sure I'm ready to buy The Naturals new image. Douglas is trying like hell to sell it for them, but I'm afraid they may have been jobbed too regularly lately for me to be ready to take them seriously yet.

[JonInMiddleGA]

TNA Victory Road Match 2: Monty Brown vs Rhino -- the guy who's been streaking through jobberland vs the guy who has turned up the heat with consecutive killer promos.

This was thrown onto the card nearly at the last minute, not sure that I like the booking here. It feels too random plus it seems likely to damage what they've tried to accomplish with each of them for the past month. (As of the ref bump, while I'm typing this) I expect Brown to get a cheap win & them to set up a month long feud for these two.

edit to add: double countout as they brawl through the crowd, through security and out the back door. Almost looked like they were booking on the fly after Thomas took a Gore from Rhino, clearly Rhino was calling a spot when they were on the guardrail, so I'm not sure this was exactly the way it was booked in detail although it looks like the eventual result I expected. I suppose there's not much else for these two to be doing right now, so the pairing is set. I'm kind of "meh" about it, mostly because I don't see Brown improving.

Next up: LAX vs Killings & Dutt -- previewed by looong taped promo for LAX. I really dislike the angle they're using for them, partly because it's so predictable in some ways & partly because I know Homicide could get over without the crappy angle and I think Hernandez is more than serviceable in his own right.

[SirFozzie]

The LAX intro is a plus for me. It does more in 30 seconds to get over then one of their rambling promos

[JonInMiddleGA]

Minor quibble amidst a helluva match -- when you run in to break up a pin attempt, shouldn't it actually break up the pin? Instead, nowadays, the pinner almost always remains in a pinning position AND the victim usually doesn't get his shoulder up. I suppose the theory is that the interference breaks the referee's count, but it just bugs me the way it's done now, it looks sloppy.

[JonInMiddleGA]

D'Amore just gave the farewell to Team Canada segment everything he had. Not bad, IMO. And the push for Eric Young, albeit maybe only from jobber to lower midcarder, is definitely underway :)

[JonInMiddleGA]

It's official -- Bound For Glory, 10/22, in Detroit.

edit to add: And, it's official - Kazarian returns to TNA, taking on Senshi for the X-Division title.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Senshi handles Kazarian, in a match that featured {gasp} psychology, as his offense focused on making it hard for the returning former X-champ to breath, perfect considering his finisher. Crowd was kind of dead for a good bit of the match though.

[Flasch186]

Minor quibble amidst a helluva match -- when you run in to break up a pin attempt, shouldn't it actually break up the pin? Instead, nowadays, the pinner almost always remains in a pinning position AND the victim usually doesn't get his shoulder up. I suppose the theory is that the interference breaks the referee's count, but it just bugs me the way it's done now, it looks sloppy.

and add that most of the time, that Ive seen, they dont even make contact enough to technically break up the pin count....which may have been what you mean anyways.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Sabin rolls up Shelley to win the tag match, 3-on-2 afterwards as the heels have strength in numbers. Effective (IMO) run-in save by Jerry Lynn, who tosses down his "employee badge" and tells Nash to bring it.

Sets up an obvious 3-on-3 I guess, which could extend the angle for another month I suppose, but if Lynn can still go, it'd be good to see him back in the ring.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Abyss slams Runt onto a table to win the six-man match. I said "onto" instead of "through" since the table didn't really break until Abyss put his weight into it after the move. Bad luck for little Spike there, I gotta figure that hurts a good bit more when the table doesn't give & there's a 350 pound monster on top of you.

Next up: AMW+Gail Kim vs AJ/Daniels/Sirelda. Sidebar, I really like the work that Storm & Harris do on the mic, it's old school & their experience in Nashville (where I first saw them work in one of Bert Prentice's indy feds) shows in it a little bit.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Well, maybe that sequence will put to rest the "Brokeback Mountain" chants at AMW ;)

[JonInMiddleGA]

Styles/Daniels/Sirelda win after a botched spot by AMW, further teasing a possible split of the former tag champions.

Sirelda did okay, I guess, for her first big event. She's very green but she served her purpose. Gail Kim, on the other hand, I really think could work quite capably in at least the lower echelon of the X-Division. Like a lot of female wrestlers who have an aerial package, she's a spot monkey but I really like the workrate she brings especially for her size. 'd really like to see her against some of the Japanese ladies in a set of serious matches.

[JonInMiddleGA]

4-way for the title shot -- Jarrett posed as a camera man, then sprayed gasoline in Sting's eyes early in the match, effectively eliminating him contention. Leaves it as a 3-way dance (at least for now).

[General Mike]

Naturals vs Diamonds In the Rough -- kinda sorry to see the victims of the anticipated squash include David Young, who is much better than he's been allowed ... oops, literally while I was typing this David busted out a moonsault to the floor. If they're gonna be leaving TNA soon as the 'net claims, at least he goes out with a highlight moment.

Meanwhile, I'm not sure I'm ready to buy The Naturals new image. Douglas is trying like hell to sell it for them, but I'm afraid they may have been jobbed too regularly lately for me to be ready to take them seriously yet.

Their utter lack of charisma doesn't help.

[JonInMiddleGA]

(As even my 8 y/o predicted) Sting returns from the back with his eyes bandanged, prevents Cage from pinning Steiner, short exchange with all four men leads to Sting pinning Steiner to earn the title shot.

And, as you might expect, an angry Christian confronts Sting in the ring afterwards. Nose to nose, eyeball to eyeball, chest to chest ... you could clearly see Cage tell Sting to "back away from me" ... and Sting does, asking Cage "what do you want from me" ... Christian pauses ... pauses ... and offers his hand to Sting. ... Sting shakes his hand ... and Cage hugs him, exits the ring & applauds Sting from the apron, leaving Sting alone to celebrate his victory in the ring as we fade to black.

What this eventually leads to is almost painfully predictable, but credit to the writers for not going for the obvious ending tonight.

[General Mike]

Christian needs to be a heel.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Christian needs to be a heel.

And I'll be shocked if you don't get your wish about 30 days from now ;)

[General Mike]

Well,I don't think they will have Christian turn heel at the next PPV because Sting needs to be the guy Joe beats for the title.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Okay, I still worry that Nash will f' up this angle with Sabin, but ...
That bit about "Madagascar" was funny.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Meanwhile, I do believe the profile of Homicide & Hernandez has just officially been raised.

[duckman]

For some reason I can't get into the TNA product. Maybe I've been conditioned by watching WWE for all these years?

[SirFozzie]

BTW, Homicide's move (dunno what TNA called it the Gringo something or other), known as the Cop Killa elsewhere.. is the new Muscle Buster.. a "DANGEROUS!" finish.

[JonInMiddleGA]

BTW, Homicide's move (dunno what TNA called it the Gringo something or other), known as the Cop Killa elsewhere.. is the new Muscle Buster.. a "DANGEROUS!" finish.

I mentioned that to Will, that I don't know what they called it but I bet they won't use the name that he uses for it everywhere else.

And it does look nasty (thanks in part to AJ selling it like he'd been shot).

------
Meanwhile, credit to Jay Lethal for being prepared (real life prepared, not kayfabe prepared) to bring an A game for what will probably be the only match in his life for a World Title. And (grudgingly) credit to Jarrett for selling for him and making it look credible. The psychology of the match was well above the norm for the past several years IMO -- Lethal attacking just before the bell, following Jarrett outside the ring and continuing his offense not once but twice, pretty much everything he did except trying to plead his case with the ref was spot on for a guy who knew he had one big chance. And that mistake also made sense in the context of "the youngest guy on the roster".

On the whole, I think it's still a mixed bag for the big picture booking but in isolation I thought the script for this one was quite well done.

[SirFozzie]

Gringo Killa is what they're calling it apparently..

BTW, nice Southern style heat, with LAX suckering AJ Styles and Christopher Daniels over to "Their turf" to sign the deal for a title shot (especially since Styles/Daniels appear to be "fighting cha,pions"), only to beat them down, and signing the contract with Daniels's blood is a CHOICE visual.

[Toddzilla]

BTW, Homicide's move (dunno what TNA called it the Gringo something or other), known as the Cop Killa elsewhere.. is the new Muscle Buster.. a "DANGEROUS!" finish.It is the "Vertebreaker" that Shane Helms used to use in WCW before he stopped after dropping someone (Chavo?) right on his neck. I believe he came up with the move himself - he used to have some cool videos of it on his website.

[Deattribution]

In addition to Mark Henry off this week's smackdown PPV, they just pulled Bobby Lashley off the ppv for rumored 'medical reasons'...

[JonInMiddleGA]

It is the "Vertebreaker" that Shane Helms used to use in WCW before he stopped after dropping someone (Chavo?) right on his neck. I believe he came up with the move himself - he used to have some cool videos of it on his website.

Nice memory Todd, better memory than me at least.

The CopKilla is indeed a Reverse Gory Special Piledriver, and ...

from http://www.deathvalleydriver.com/bbbowm/part1.htm
Piledriver, Reverse Gory Special
Used by : Megumi Kudoh, Shane Helms
AKA : Spinning Kudoh Driver (Megumi Kudoh), Vertibreaker (Helms)
Description : The victim is behind the attacker. The attacker places the victim's head between their legs and hooks both their arms. The attacker turns around so the victim is now in front of the attacker facing the same direction, at the same time, the victim ducks down and sticks their head between the victim's legs and stands up while still having the arms hooked. The victim is lifted up so they are now upside down, the attacker suspends the victim by keeping their arms trapped. The attacker holds the victim's arms and grabs the victim's legs. The attacker sits down, dropping the victim on their head/back of the neck.

[duckman]

In addition to Mark Henry off this week's smackdown PPV, they just pulled Bobby Lashley off the ppv for rumored 'medical reasons'...

They are saying it is from elevated liver enzymes. :confused:

[JonInMiddleGA]

They are saying it is from elevated liver enzymes. :confused:

from http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/elevated-liver-enzymes/HQ01011

Common causes of elevated liver enzymes include:

* Medications, such as certain nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory drugs, cholesterol-lowering medications, antibiotics and anti-seizure medications
* Drinking too much alcohol
* Obesity
* Diabetes
* Elevated triglycerides
* Infection, such as viral hepatitis and mononucleosis
* Autoimmune disorders of the liver and bile ducts, such as autoimmune hepatitis and primary sclerosing cholangitis and primary biliary cirrhosis
* Metabolic liver disease, such as hemochromatosis and Wilson's disease
* Excessive use of vitamin supplements and certain herbal supplements
* Tumors of the liver or bile ducts

Treatment of elevated liver enzyme depends on the underlying cause.

[molson]

Wow - The Great Khali has now been pulled from the Great American Bash, as he too has a diseased liver.

The WWE sure is taking the wellness program seriously - which is good to see.

[Toddzilla]

Nice memory Todd, better memory than me at least.Thanks, dude. I actually used to write a recap of WCW Monday Nitro for R.S.P-W (The Definitive Monday Nitro Report under the moniker "Peter the Great" :rolleyes:. I'll bet you could search Google Groups and find one,) and on a small web site I had when I was in college. Every match, every move, every result. When they movedfrom 1 hour to 2 it became a chore, then when they toyd with 3 it was a nightmare.

[saldana]

is any one getting the G.A.B. tonight....i am pondering it, but am leaning against it as i dont watch the smackdown brand very much.

[SirFozzie]

From a Wrestling standpoint, this shouldbe one of the better WWE PPV's this year...

From a storyline standpoint, one of the worst.

[jbmagic]

From a Wrestling standpoint, this shouldbe one of the better WWE PPV's this year...

From a storyline standpoint, one of the worst.


Not after two major injuries. The card is kinda weak now.

[SirFozzie]

Bobby Lashley isn't a great wrestler, so instead of a three way, we get Regal vs Finlay, and that should be a really good match depending on what they do with it.

Great Khali is a HORRIBLE wrestler (so much so that he was responsible for the death of a wrestler in training, if I remember correctly).. and Big Show is the best wrestling big man around... that match improved 100x over.

[Joe]

Bobby Lashley isn't a great wrestler, so instead of a three way, we get Regal vs Finlay, and that should be a really good match depending on what they do with it.

Great Khali is a HORRIBLE wrestler (so much so that he was responsible for the death of a wrestler in training, if I remember correctly).. and Big Show is the best wrestling big man around... that match improved 100x over.

But it wasn't really his fault.

"On May 28, 2001, Brian Ong volunteered to receive a flapjack from Dalip Singh, a wrestler being specially trained by All Pro Wrestling. Singh did this move with two others in the gym that night, including one of the trainers, so Ong could see how it was done. Ong botched receiving the move, as he grabbed Singh's shirt instead of pushing off his back as the coaches had instructed him. He landed wrong and suffered a severe injury. He had a previous concussion and the second consecutive concussion proved fatal for Ong. This led to Singh inadvertently causing his death. All Pro Wrestling lost a lawsuit brought by Ong's family over his death, and were forced to award damages of over $1.3 million to his parents."

[JonInMiddleGA]

The general take on the Khali training death seems to be that the victim, Brian Ong, was even greener than Khali & basically botched taking the bump himself.

Best I can tell, the jury that eventually awarded Ong's family over $1m in damages did so because they felt the fed/school shouldn't have put the student in the ring to take the bump in the first place, not because Dalip Singh did anything wrong in delivering the flapjack (or at least that's the impression I got from reading a few articles).

[Deattribution]

The card looks horrible, if I were anyone thinking on ordering it - I'd save my money for Summerslam. They've practically went back to their 'In your house' format where there are only 4 real PPVs and the rest is garbage to just get your money.

[JonInMiddleGA]

I'd save my money for ordering a DVD from a fed with a half decent roster

Fixed that for ya ;)

[Deattribution]

Hah, yeah well that's not too bad of an idea either... Although they have a ton of talent, they have no idea what to do with any of them.

Wrestling is in a pretty sad state, especially compared to the days where WWE couldn't afford to mail in a PPV (Monday night wars era).

It isn't the wrestlers fault, they all work really hard but they have NOTHING to work with.

[General Mike]

Big Show is the best wrestling big man around

Depends on your definition of Big Man.

[saldana]

Depends on your definition of Big Man.

i agree, because it also depends on how you are assessing him...i consider Batista to be a 'big man' and if you consider his ring work, his mic work, and how well he gets over, i think he is far superior to big show.

[EagleFan]

Wrestling is soooo yesterday. UFC baby!!!!!!! No scripts, assinine interviews or fake injuries.

And yes, I used to watch it for the quasi-entertainment factor but that gets used up very quickly when it's the same crap over and over.

[Toddzilla]

Khalil's gonna kill you....

[molson]

i agree, because it also depends on how you are assessing him...i consider Batista to be a 'big man' and if you consider his ring work, his mic work, and how well he gets over, i think he is far superior to big show.

You can't really compare Big Show with very many other guys (do people expect him to be able to do planchas and stuff?) It's hard to imagine someone of Show's size being any more capable in the ring that he is.

As long as the internet has been around, people have people have been complaining about wrestling. Even at the industry's peak, the tone on the internet has always been negative. You'd think people would just watch something else. I think the WWE product has been relatively solid for a while now - coherent stories, long-term planning, a greater emphasis on wrestling than at any other time in the company's history. Go watch some tapes from the early-mid 90s, or even 2000-2001 - the current product is pretty good.

[molson]

Wrestling is soooo yesterday. UFC baby!!!!!!! No scripts, assinine interviews or fake injuries.



Thery're definitly becoming a player, but it's interesting that fake fighting still has 3 times the TV audience of real fighting.

[Deattribution]

As long as the internet has been around, people have people have been complaining about wrestling. Even at the industry's peak, the tone on the internet has always been negative. You'd think people would just watch something else. I think the WWE product has been relatively solid for a while now - coherent stories, long-term planning, a greater emphasis on wrestling than at any other time in the company's history. Go watch some tapes from the early-mid 90s, or even 2000-2001 - the current product is pretty good.


Big difference of opinion here, the stories and long term planning has been terrible. The only people who get any effort put into anything done for them is two or three guys at the top (guess who). At best, it's background noise anymore... so predictable and half-hearted.

Not exactly a coincidence that the only two factions in the last 5 years(which I always thought were a GREAT way to get some guys over) both involved one guy who didn't need any help getting over anymore - Triple H.

[Joe]

Big difference of opinion here, the stories and long term planning has been terrible. The only people who get any effort put into anything done for them is two or three guys at the top (guess who). At best, it's background noise anymore... so predictable and half-hearted.

Not exactly a coincidence that the only two factions in the last 5 years(which I always thought were a GREAT way to get some guys over) both involved one guy who didn't need any help getting over anymore - Triple H.

At least it helped establish Batista and Orton

[Deattribution]

Dola

And the problem I see with the UFC is they've yet to really have a big money match that has lived up to the hype... Huge hype over Ortiz-Shamrock, Hughes-Gracie and the matches lasted a combined 3 minutes.

Their PPVs are like 75% commercial and 25% fighting. They were big for a while in the 90's and fizzled out, and it wouldn't surprise me if it happens again within the next year.

[Deattribution]

At least it helped establish Batista and Orton


Yeah, in the case of Evolution it did - but my point was that they're under utilized. Even with Evolution, it was kind of dumb since they didn't have another faction to fight with. It was simply shoving them down peoples throats.

[molson]

Yeah, in the case of Evolution it did - but my point was that they're under utilized. Even with Evolution, it was kind of dumb since they didn't have another faction to fight with. It was simply shoving them down peoples throats.

If the internet as we know it today was around in the 80s, they'd be saying this same thing about the four horseman.

That's fine if you don't like the product, but it's possible you've just outgrown it. The current WWE isn't as good as it was in 97-98, and possibly 86-87 (though the wrestling now is way better than it was then), but I think it holds up against any other era. Just my opinion of course.

[Joe]

All Hail King Booker -- New Champ. Guess he's a transitional champ to get it back to Batista.

[Schmidty]

At least it helped establish Batista and Orton

Orton is the biggest fraud-ass piece of crap wrestler I've seen in 10 years. And no, I don't mean his gimmick. He just plain sucks.

[Schmidty]

If the internet as we know it today was around in the 80s, they'd be saying this same thing about the four horseman.

I grew up on 80's wrestling in the south (central FL), and the 4 horsemen had charisma. Orton has nothing other than a gimmicky arm-raised thing, and a shitty "finishing move".

[JonInMiddleGA]

Go watch some tapes from the early-mid 90s, or even 2000-2001 - the current product is pretty good.

Umm ... I suspect a lot of those (including me) who aren't impressed very often now weren't impressed much then either.

On the other hand, I just finished reading a recap of last night's NWA-Anarchy (formerly NWA-Wildside) show. The conclusion to a long-running feud involving the promoter ended with him on the wrong end of a bloody beatdown, complete with an ambulance crew taking him away to the hospital. When the ambulance arrived, there were some 70 people (of 225 in attendance) waiting there to see if he was going to be okay.

Now THAT'S getting an angle over.

[molson]

Orton is the biggest fraud-ass piece of crap wrestler I've seen in 10 years. And no, I don't mean his gimmick. He just plain sucks.

He's got a ways to go before he can be the main eventer the WWE obviously wants him to be. But, he's still really young, he's had some excellent matches with Benoit (so he can be carried), and he has that prick/rapist aura about him that can make him a legit heel (as oppossed to a "cool heel"). I think he'll be OK in time. .

[jbmagic]

Kennedy injured at The Great American Bash
July 23, 2006

At The Great American Bash, Mr. Kennedy was busted open during his match with Batista when he was rammed into the steel ring steps.

When examined in the locker room, he was found to have a severe laceration of the scalp that exposed his cranium. According to WWE physician Dr. Ferdinand Rios, Kennedy required more than 20 stitches to close the wound.

[jbmagic]

King Booker added some new bling by pinning Rey Mysterio to become the new World Heavyweight Champion. Booker was victorious thanks in part to Chavo Guerrero, who shocked the world by nailing supposed friend Mysterio with a chair.

[duckman]

Triple H is about to become a daddy:

hxxp://www.411mania.com/wrestling/news/43237/More-WWE-News:-Big-Changes-for-Raw-Tonight.htm
Stephanie McMahon has reportedly gone into labor. Vince McMahon and Triple H made the call to head back to Connecticut to be with her, thus causing a lot of craziness backstage and changes for tonight's show. It is not known what exactly will be changed, but tonight if they go to further the DX vs. McMahons angle it looks as if it will be up to Shane McMahon and Shawn Michaels.

Credit: PWInsider.com

[duckman]

Looks like the DX/McMahon angle is on hold tonight:

As reported earlier, Stephanie McMahon has gone into labor and both Vince McMahon and Triple H have decided to be with her and thus won't be on RAW tonight. Some speculated earlier than if WWE wanted to continue the McMahons/DX angle tonight on RAW, it would be up to Shane McMahon and Shawn Michaels. However, it appears Shane McMahon is also not at RAW tonight.

Credit: PWInsider.com

[Toddzilla]

I swear, if she gives birth to a rubber hand, I'm never watching wrestling again ;)

[DeToxRox]

Super Crazy was to face Gregory Helms at the Great American Bash PPV last night, but has also been taken off the road due to issues with his liver.

Kid Kash is expected to be suspended and taken off of the road after tomorrow's Smackdown tapings. The reason is not known, but is speculated to be because of an infraction against the Wellness policy.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Okay, one elevated liver enzyme is kinda unusual.
Two liver issues in one week is rather odd.

But THREE?

WTF, is there a hepatitis outbreak in the lockeroom or something?

[duckman]

Okay, one elevated liver enzyme is kinda unusual.
Two liver issues in one week is rather odd.

But THREE?

WTF, is there a hepatitis outbreak in the lockeroom or something?

It could be caused by pain killer abuse which would be likely with all the bumps these wrestlers take on a weekly basis.

[saldana]

Okay, one elevated liver enzyme is kinda unusual.
Two liver issues in one week is rather odd.

But THREE?

WTF, is there a hepatitis outbreak in the lockeroom or something?


iirc, Creatine can do very nasty things to a persons liver....theoretically, these guys would eat the stuff by the bucketful since its still legal and presumably not banned by anyone but the IOC

[duckman]

iirc, Creatine can do very nasty things to a persons liver....theoretically, these guys would eat the stuff by the bucketful since its still legal and presumably not banned by anyone but the IOC

If you keep yourself well hydrated, you usually don't have these problems. I don't see that as a problem for most of these guys. I'm going to stick with my pain killer theory.

[saldana]

If you keep yourself well hydrated, you usually don't have these problems. I don't see that as a problem for most of these guys. I'm going to stick with my pain killer theory.
i actually missed that theory (post)...i could buy that theory as well...i cant imagine these guys arent in perpetual pain

[SirFozzie]

right now, I'm sure that Vince (well, when not worrying about his daughter in labor) wishes he never heard the word "Wellness Program"

[saldana]

i actually missed that theory (post)...i could buy that theory as well...i cant imagine these guys arent in perpetual pain

dola, we posted at the same time, thats why i missed it...like i said though, i could easily see either of these things as the wide spread cause of the issue...i am sure NSAID's are in the bucket right next to the Creatine in the weight rooms.

[Deattribution]

Anabolic steroid use is often associated with an increased plasma activity of liver enzymes, according to SportsSci.org.


That little bit was from a LoP column, it sounds plausible (especially in Lashley's case) although I don't know how relevant it is.

[saldana]

That little bit was from a LoP column, it sounds plausible (especially in Lashley's case) although I don't know how relevant it is.

i totally agree its plausible (probable)...i was trying to come up with alternative options in the hope that the Wellness Program is actually doing some good. i have noticed a lot of physique changes since eddie died, so i was working from the probably naive position that these guys are off the roids.

[Deattribution]

I think regardless what the issues are caused from, this is a great sign because these guys were going to continue doing whatever they were doing and also wrestling without the wellness program.... actually kind of crazy they've went on this long without some sort of bi-monthly phyiscal or something.

[General Mike]

That little bit was from a LoP column, it sounds plausible (especially in Lashley's case) although I don't know how relevant it is.

100% relevant. If you don't think Khali or Lashley are on the juice, I've got a bridge to sell you.

[saldana]

100% relevant. If you don't think Khali or Lashley are on the juice, I've got a bridge to sell you.
is it a pretty bridge.....i guess what i should have said above was that i think there are certain people that definitely stopped juicing...not that i think it is gone from the sport.

[DeToxRox]

"The main concern right now is that the wrestlers testing with high levels (Great Khali, Bobby Lashley) may have Hepatitis C, a high-contagious incurable condition that is easily spread, which is why contact between anyone testing positive with high liver enzymes and other wrestlers is not allowed.

Great Khali's test level was very minimal over the normal level, and he was re-tested earlier today, so if that test comes back normal, he could be back in the ring as soon as this week as long as everything else checks out.

The others who have tested with high levels have been "off the charts high," according to once source, and further tests are being done on them."

[SirFozzie]

Oh my god. This is why WWE never wants to give John Cena a microphone and tell him to say whatever's on his mind.

The promo had no purpose, but god was it funny.

[duckman]

Looks like I'm wrong about the pain killer theory:

- There is concern in WWE right now that the wrestlers testing with high enzyme levels could possibly have Hepatitis C which is incurable and easily spread. This is why guys like Bobby Lashley, Super Crazy, and the Great Khali were all pulled from wrestling right away after testing high.

- The Great Khali's test level was apparently only slightly over the normal level and he was apparently re-tested today. If that test comes back OK, he could return to the active roster as early as this week.

- The tests on Lashley and Super Crazy were apparently "off the charts" high.

Credit: PWtorch.com

[Terps]

Didn't Cowboy Bob Orton have Hepatitis C back when he and Randy were feuding with the Undertaker, and they didn't make it public for a while? He got fired not too long after that.

[duckman]

I don't remember reading anything about it.

[Deattribution]

Yeah, supposedly the Undertaker got really pissed off (understandably) that they let Cowboy Bob bleed without UT knowing he had hepatitis C.


I wonder though, if Lashley gets diagnosed with HC does that effectively put an end to his career?

I'd still say it's more likely roids but...

[Schmidty]

Didn't Cowboy Bob Orton have Hepatitis C back when he and Randy were feuding with the Undertaker, and they didn't make it public for a while? He got fired not too long after that.

Damn, that's awful. I can't stand UT, but that would be beyond horrible if he got that disease because of Orton's irresponsibility.

[Terps]

This is from Wikipedia, but this was all over wrestling news sites when it happened:


At Armageddon 2005 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WWE_Armageddon#2005), Orton (still holding the urn) accompanied Randy to ringside for his Hell in a Cell (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hell_in_a_Cell) match with The Undertaker. He interfered in the match several times, but was ultimately unable to prevent The Undertaker from delivering a Tombstone Piledriver (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piledriver_%28professional_wrestling%29#Tombstone_Piledriver) to both Ortons and then covering Randy for the win. Orton bladed (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blading_%28professional_wrestling%29) during the match and bled on both Randy and The Undertaker; controversially, he was later widely reported to be suffering from the blood-borne disease (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood-borne_disease) hepatitis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hepatitis).
On February 13 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/February_13), 2006 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006), Orton was released from WWE.

[saldana]

This is from Wikipedia, but this was all over wrestling news sites when it happened:
it doesnt say which form of Hep though...i know that a and b have innoculations, but i dont know if they have vaccines as well. c and d are different stories though, as they dont even have innoculants.

[Schmidty]

it doesnt say which form of Hep though...i know that a and b have innoculations, but i dont know if they have vaccines as well. c and d are different stories though, as they dont even have innoculants.

Either way, if you know you have any disease that can be spread by blood, and you blade yourself in a match, you deserve to get you head stomped in. But I guess that would get the stomper blood on him, so it would defeat the purpose.

[Terps]

Well the story was that he got it a long time ago, and "forgot." John 'Johnny Ace' Laurenitius was the only one who knew about it though and did not tell anyone, not even Vince.

[molson]

Damn, that's awful. I can't stand UT, but that would be beyond horrible if he got that disease because of Orton's irresponsibility.

It was a messy situation for a while. Apparently, Johnny Ace (one of the WWE hire ups in charge of "talen relations") knew that Orton had hep, and didn't speak up when he knew Orton would be spilling blood all over the Undertaker and Randy in that Hell in the Cell match. Undertaker took a sabatical after that, and then came back, so it was assumed he was clean.

It's amazing to me that the WWE is being so stringent about the wellness program. It's just a complete change from their treatement of wrestlers in the past. The physique shrinkage is pretty noticeable, even in the top guys (Edge is tiny, HHH has gotten pretty fat).

[Schmidty]

It's amazing to me that the WWE is being so stringent about the wellness program. It's just a complete change from their treatement of wrestlers in the past. The physique shrinkage is pretty noticeable, even in the top guys (Edge is tiny, HHH has gotten pretty fat).

Pretty soon everyone's going to have a gut like Jim Duggan, and bigger tits that Trish Stratus.

[duckman]

Here is the video of the RVD/Sabu arrest:

hxxp://us.video.aol.com/video.index.adp?mode=1&pmmsid=1680640

[molson]

Here is the video of the RVD/Sabu arrest:

hxxp://us.video.aol.com/video.index.adp?mode=1&pmmsid=1680640

Liberally stolen from another site:

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y13/kunswwfmark/rvddrugs.jpg