So The Superbowl is Over (Unofficial 2007 NFL Draft/Free Agency Thread)

[Ksyrup]

The point about touches is that the receptions don't factor in. Which is why guys like LT and Faulk are apt to still be productive, despite total touches exceeding 400 when their carries rarely exceed 350 (or 370, if you want to take the number FO uses). I also don't think it's fair to look at total yards in a particular season to determine whether someone was a "one-hit wonder." Foster was just as productive in the year before his big year; Anderson was up and down, but was productive in the 2 years before his big year. I don't think where they were drafted has any bearing on this at all, and ignoring running style doesn't make much sense, either (although admittedly, it is a more subjective determination).

I think trying to make specific comparisons is counter-productive. This isn't a "rule" to begin with, so trying to find exceptions to a non-existent rule, or differentiating between guys who might or might not fit within the rule, is pretty easy. My overall point remains that, regardless of whether LJ continues to be great, he is a significant risk right now, and KC should view him accordingly. There is plenty of information out there to suggest that he may significantly decline or get injured, if not this year, than within a year or two. Doesn't mean he won't put up 4 more 1700 yard seasons, but the odds of that are pretty slim.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Noticed today that the trade talk on LJ has cooled for now. Knowing the Chiefs' management, that likely means that they were using yesterday to feel out what they could get for LJ if they decide to trade on draft day. Whether they do the right thing or not remains to be seen. If they do trade him, they better get fair value. If he doesn't get traded, that doesn't mean that he wasn't being offered around. That just means they didn't get as much as they thought they would for him.

[albionmoonlight]

I've been following this whole dog fighting ring at Michael Vick's semi-occupied palatial estate story on profootballtalk.com. It seems like there's quite a bit of evidence that Vick's place was used as part of a dog fighting ring. 70 pit bulls, some with injuries and scars, many that are malnourished...

If it does turn out that Vick's been using his home for that, or even if he just knew/allowed his house to be used for that... fuck him. He's dead to me.

There are few things that get my blood boiling hotter than the whole dog fighting thing. I just find it repulsive.

There is still a good chance that Vick knew nothing about/had nothing to do with this.

But, if it turns out that he did, then that is a HUGE PR nightmare for the Falcons. I think that people are probably more willing to forgive and forget Pacman putting a guy in a wheelchair than they would Vick running a dog fighting ring.

Arthur Blank seems very concerned about the green stuff. He will not like having PETA and the ASPCA telling people to boycot Falcons games and Falcons' gear (if it comes to that).

[Honolulu_Blue]

At the moment I would be happy with the following two scenarios tomorrow:

1) The Lions draft Calvin Johnson and keep him. FOUR WIDEOUTS IN THE TOP TEN OF THE DRAFT IN FIVE YEARS BABY!

2) The Lions trade down with Atlanta, get a bunch of picks, and draft Patrick Willis. Linebacker will have become the new wideout...

[Arles]

The point about touches is that the receptions don't factor in. Which is why guys like LT and Faulk are apt to still be productive, despite total touches exceeding 400 when their carries rarely exceed 350 (or 370, if you want to take the number FO uses). I also don't think it's fair to look at total yards in a particular season to determine whether someone was a "one-hit wonder." Foster was just as productive in the year before his big year; Anderson was up and down, but was productive in the 2 years before his big year. I don't think where they were drafted has any bearing on this at all, and ignoring running style doesn't make much sense, either (although admittedly, it is a more subjective determination).
But you are talking about productive guys with under 1000 yards now with Foster and Anderson. There are a ton of guys like that every season (Mike Bell, Leon Washington, Maroney, Norwood, Barber and Michael Turner are examples of this from just 06). if you gave any of these guys 370 carries next season, there's a chance they could be nonproductive a couple seasons later. But there's that same chance if they get 200 carries next season.

I think trying to make specific comparisons is counter-productive. This isn't a "rule" to begin with, so trying to find exceptions to a non-existent rule, or differentiating between guys who might or might not fit within the rule, is pretty easy. My overall point remains that, regardless of whether LJ continues to be great, he is a significant risk right now, and KC should view him accordingly. There is plenty of information out there to suggest that he may significantly decline or get injured, if not this year, than within a year or two. Doesn't mean he won't put up 4 more 1700 yard seasons, but the odds of that are pretty slim.
In order to make a comparison, though, you need to find players with similar careers as a starter. In his first two seasons, LJ has averaged 1770 yards on 376 carries (4.7 ypc) and 18 TDs. From a total yard standpoint, he's at over 2000 yards per season. That is a level guys like Anderson, Foster and many other he's being compared to in this study didn't even come close to achieving.

If you look at the past 7-8 years, the only reasonably close comparisons to LJ in terms of age, production and workload are Faulk, LT, Alexander and Edge. And each of these guys went on to have very productive seasons 3-4 years after their first two seasons of high use. Expecting LJ to follow the career path of Jamal Anderson or Foster and not LT or Edge seems illogical given his talent/age/workload to this point.

Now, is there some risk? Sure, but there was risk with Edge after his first few seasons. There was risk with LT after his 700+ carries in years 1-2. There was risk with Faulk after his high workload to start his career. And there was risk with Alexander after his first two seasons as a fulltime starter. Yet each of these guys went on to have 3-4 extremely productive seasons after their first two years as a starter with high workload. They are all extremely talented backs who had under 1000 carries after this workload and that's exactly the situation LJ is in.

[Celeval]

Noticed today that the trade talk on LJ has cooled for now. Knowing the Chiefs' management, that likely means that they were using yesterday to feel out what they could get for LJ if they decide to trade on draft day. Whether they do the right thing or not remains to be seen. If they do trade him, they better get fair value. If he doesn't get traded, that doesn't mean that he wasn't being offered around. That just means they didn't get as much as they thought they would for him.

There's a rumor out and about that the Packers have offered a first and a fourth for LJ.

[Butter]

At the moment I would be happy with the following two scenarios tomorrow:

1) The Lions draft Calvin Johnson and keep him. FOUR WIDEOUTS IN THE TOP TEN OF THE DRAFT IN FIVE YEARS BABY!

It's no fun if you defuse the joke before we get to make it.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

There's a rumor out and about that the Packers have offered a first and a fourth for LJ.

Yeah, they haven't acted on that. The Chiefs publicly are saying they won't trade LJ, but that doesn't mean a whole lot when Carl Peterson is the one saying it.

[Ksyrup]

In order to make a comparison, though, you need to find players with similar careers as a starter. In his first two seasons, LJ has averaged 1770 yards on 376 carries (4.7 ypc) and 18 TDs. From a total yard standpoint, he's at over 2000 yards per season. That is a level guys like Anderson, Foster and many other he's being compared to in this study didn't even come close to achieving.

If you look at the past 7-8 years, the only reasonably close comparisons to LJ in terms of age, production and workload are Faulk, LT, Alexander and Edge. And each of these guys went on to have very productive seasons 3-4 years after their first two seasons of high use. Expecting LJ to follow the career path of Jamal Anderson or Foster and not LT or Edge seems illogical given his talent/age/workload to this point.

Now, is there some risk? Sure, but there was risk with Edge after his first few seasons. There was risk with LT after his 700+ carries in years 1-2. There was risk with Faulk after his high workload to start his career. And there was risk with Alexander after his first two seasons as a fulltime starter. Yet each of these guys went on to have 3-4 extremely productive seasons after their first two years as a starter with high workload. They are all extremely talented backs who had under 1000 carries after this workload and that's exactly the situation LJ is in.

Now you're actually making my argument for me, even limiting this to these 4 guys. First, I've already discussed LT and Faulk. Receptions do not factor in, as per the FO article, they have not been shown to increase the risk for injury or declining production the way additional carries do. Faulk cannot reasonably be considered a decent comparison since he only went over 300 carries twice in his entire carrier, and in neither regular season was he close to 350, let alone 370. a greater percentage of his touches came from receptions, so he's a bad comparision. LT appears to be an Emmitt-type, and I will grant you that players like this exist. Maybe LJ will be like him. I don't think they're the same kind of RB, though, so I disagree.

Now let's look at Edge and Alexander. First, Edge to me is again a similar style runner to LT and Faulk than LJ is - not a lot of direct hits, consistently catches more balls a season than LJ. Edge has been over 350 carries 3 times in his career, twice in the first two seasons. Notwithstanding his style, guess what happened in season 3? Knee injury. He didn't get his YPC back up over 4 until 2003. Yes, he came back relatively strong, but he's an LT-type, not an LJ-type. And he still was out or ineffective for the better part of 2 seasons.

Shaun Alexander...probably the only 1 of the 4 who is a similar back to LJ. Once he became a starter, he wasn't used nearly as much as LJ has been early in his career. I'm sorry, but there's a big difference between 325-350 carries and 415. That's roughly 2 games worth of extra carries. His first two full seasons he totalled 604 carries to LJ's 752. If you want to throw out Foster and Anderson's partial years, we'll throw out Alexander's and LJs, too. 750 to 600 carries in their first two full seasons. And then what happened when Alexander increased his workload from an average of 310 carries his first 3 full seasons to 362 the next two seasons(likely far more than 400 including the playoffs in 2005)? Injury. He sucked last year. Maybe he comes back strong, maybe he doesn't. We know one thing - LJ still has almost 50 more carries last year than Alexander ever had during a regular season.

Alexander and Edge both got injured after significant workloads. Faulk was not that type of back and should not be included in the comparison. LT appears to be one of the exceptions to the rule, which LJ could be as well. But I'm going to say more than likely not.

[BishopMVP]

LJ also had a big workload at Penn St, which might factor in.

[Arles]

Alexander and Edge both got injured after significant workloads. Faulk was not that type of back and should not be included in the comparison. LT appears to be one of the exceptions to the rule, which LJ could be as well. But I'm going to say more than likely not.
To me, you can go two ways with this and say LJ is more like LT or he's more like Edge and Alexander. I tend to think he's more like LT in that neither Edge (1600, 13 TDs, 4.4 ypc) or Alexander (1200, 15 TDs, 4.2 ypc) were what LJ (1770, 18 TDs, 4.7 ypc) was in his first two seasons. But even if LJ is like Edge or Alexander, he may have one subpar year in the next two but still go on to have 3-4 MVP-calibur seasons after that.

The point here is that when you are a talent like LT, LJ, Edge, Shawn Alexander, Emmitt, Bettis and others in that class, you can have a high workload early in your career and still bounce back to have a hall of fame career if injuries hit. LJ in the next 4 seasons will be a top 3 back and getting that for what amounts to the 14th-16th pick in the draft is a steal. Does anyone think Marshawn Lynch will be a top 3 back in the next four seasons? To me, if you can get LJ for a 1st and 3rd/4th and have the cap room to sign him (which GB and Buffalo do), it's the biggest no-brainer in the history of draft deals.

Is there risk? Sure, but the probable output you will get from LJ is well worth the chance he gets hurt due to a high workload in his first two starting seasons. And I would put chance that LJ continues at a 1400 yard, 4.5 ypc, 15 TD level at much higher than Marshawn Lynch or even Adrian Peterson reaching that level over the next 2-3 seasons. Heck, you can throw in the other available back (Ahman, Lewis, McGahee, Thomas Jones) in that pot as well. LJ is a class above everyone in this group outside of AP and he already has serious injury concerns (much more than LJ).

[Ksyrup]

So I guess it boils down to the fact that in your comparison, you side with the Edge/LT comparison based on his numbers, and I side with the comparison to running style and don't really put that much weight into the degree of success, just whether they had some success.

What about the comparison to someone like Terrell Davis? He put up numbers exceeding LJs (through 3 seasons) culminating in a 390 carry (plus playoffs) season and was never healthy again. Again, I think running style and how the team uses a guy plays a big factor. It'll be interesting not only to see how LJ does this year, but how Alexander does. He's where LJ might be in a couple of years.

[Arles]

So I guess it boils down to the fact that in your comparison, you side with the Edge/LT comparison based on his numbers, and I side with the comparison to running style and don't really put that much weight into the degree of success, just whether they had some success.
But talent/success is a huge factor. If you start out with the limited natural talent of Barry Foster and get hurt, you are probably done. If you start out with Elite talent like Edge, LT, LJ, Alexander and get hurt, you can still be productive. Every back is going to get hurt, it just comes down to how you handle that injury and your state the following season. Given LJ's high talentlevel and production, he could withstand an injury better than another less talented back with a similar style. So, not only do you have the chance that he doesn't get hurt, but you also have a higher chance at him returning to top form in the unfortunate event that he does get hurt.

What about the comparison to someone like Terrell Davis? He put up numbers exceeding LJs (through 3 seasons) culminating in a 390 carry (plus playoffs) season and was never healthy again.
TD had a serious ankle injury in HS (redshirted his first at Long Beach State). He had two serious injuries in college (the last being a very serious hamstring tear his senior season). It's why he slipped so far in the draft. In the pros he tore his ACL and MCL, had a stress fracture, got both knees scoped again and had all the issues with migranes. His whole career had been littered with injuries from HS to the pros.

LJ's career is nothing like that. He was extremely durable in HS (rushed for 2,159 yards and got 7 sacks playing LB). His college career was the definition of durability - he also averaged over 8 ypc so his carries were not very high. And he has yet to miss a game in the NFL as a starter. There is no reason to believe he will get hurt given his history.

Again, I think running style and how the team uses a guy plays a big factor. It'll be interesting not only to see how LJ does this year, but how Alexander does. He's where LJ might be in a couple of years.
Guys like Rudi Johnson and Corey Dillon ran with a similar style (and clean history prior to the NFL) and they haven't had the massive injuries.

It's just different for every back. Guys like LT, Rudi and LJ have avoided injuries in their entire careers to this point so there's really no reason to think they will suddenly get hurt.

[Ksyrup]

Rudy Johnson has at least had yearly carries in the mid-300s. Surprisingly, Dillon's yearly averages look more like Faulk's than Johnson's.

Anyway, we'll see. Like I said, LJ may be OK, he may not. I'm definitely interested in whether Alexander bounces back this year.

[Eaglesfan27]

There is still a good chance that Vick knew nothing about/had nothing to do with this.

But, if it turns out that he did, then that is a HUGE PR nightmare for the Falcons. I think that people are probably more willing to forgive and forget Pacman putting a guy in a wheelchair than they would Vick running a dog fighting ring.

Arthur Blank seems very concerned about the green stuff. He will not like having PETA and the ASPCA telling people to boycot Falcons games and Falcons' gear (if it comes to that).

PETA is already calling for Vick to be suspended while his involvement is investigated and is calling for him to be released if he is found to have had involvement:

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/6743208?MSNHPHCP&GT1=9331

[Arles]

To add more intrigue into the LJ dramafest, one of the fan sites I visit just stated that a local KC media person said the Chiefs have given permission to Packers to negociate with LJ. Reportedly, the Chiefs want a 1st and 4th this season and a 3rd in 08.

Again, this is all speculation and none has hit the major sites yet - just something interesting to post.

[IMetTrentGreen]

I would bet some of the Peterson injury issues are other teams trying to get him to fall. Not all, but some.

[moriarty]

I would bet some of the Peterson injury issues are other teams trying to get him to fall. Not all, but some.

If he really does need another surgery on his shoulder I'd be nervous. Surely any team thinking of drafting him could validate this ahead of time.

[Passacaglia]

If he really does need another surgery on his shoulder I'd be nervous. Surely any team thinking of drafting him could validate this ahead of time.

You're reading this all wrong. This totally points to the Lions ending up with him somehow, and him sucking.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

To add more intrigue into the LJ dramafest, one of the fan sites I visit just stated that a local KC media person said the Chiefs have given permission to Packers to negociate with LJ. Reportedly, the Chiefs want a 1st and 4th this season and a 3rd in 08.

Again, this is all speculation and none has hit the major sites yet - just something interesting to post.

That sounds pretty consistant with what was being circulated yesterday. Buffalo had supposedly offered a 1st and a 3rd this year and a conditional pick in '08. The offer you mention sounds very similar.

[Ksyrup]

To add more intrigue into the LJ dramafest, one of the fan sites I visit just stated that a local KC media person said the Chiefs have given permission to Packers to negociate with LJ. Reportedly, the Chiefs want a 1st and 4th this season and a 3rd in 08.

Again, this is all speculation and none has hit the major sites yet - just something interesting to post.

Where he ends up this year will determine whether I hope you're right or I'm right. If he stays with KC or goes to GB, I hope he turns into a poor man's Eddie George. If he goes to Buffalo, he can run wild. :)

[moriarty]

You're reading this all wrong. This totally points to the Lions ending up with him somehow, and him sucking.

:D

[MikeVic]

I'm definitely interested in whether Alexander bounces back this year.

Me too. I'm using him as a keeper in a league. :mad:

[Ksyrup]

PETA is already calling for Vick to be suspended while his involvement is investigated and is calling for him to be released if he is found to have had involvement:

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/6743208?MSNHPHCP&GT1=9331


http://www.profootballtalk.com/DogCages.jpg

[stevew]

Who didn't let the Dogs out?

Who
Who

[MikeVic]

Who didn't let the Dogs out?

Who
Who

Oh no you didn't.

[sachmo71]

Oh, screw PETA. Jeebsus.

[Eaglesfan27]

Sure. They should give Vick a pass if he had a part in running an illegal cruel dog fighting ring (not to mention the drug distribution charge that the original warrant was for.)

[Fonzie]

profootballtalk.com is reporting that there is a deal in place for Randy Moss, but they don't yet know the destination.

[Atocep]

profootballtalk.com is reporting that there is a deal in place for Randy Moss, but they don't yet know the destination.


I'll be suprised if it isn't Green Bay.

[Fonzie]

I'll be suprised if it isn't Green Bay.

I think Brett Favre would be surprised, too. He's been pushing this deal hard, according to profootballtalk.com.

[Arles]

here's a crazy twists on one of the blogs I read (guy is staying in the press hotel for the draft):
Clayton just got off the phone with Ted Thompson, GM for Green Bay. The Packers are really thinking about giving up their 1st Round pick NEXT YEAR for Michael Turner.

This is getting crazy. GB's been rumored to be going after every RB short of Eric Dickerson this week ;)

[Warhammer]

ABC announces today that Eric Dickerson will be returning to the sidelines this season... As a member of the Green Bay Packers...

[RedKingGold]

I heard a rumor that Larry Johnson and Michael Turner are gay lovers and they only want to be traded to the same team for a team's entire draft. Apparently, Mike Ditka is listening.

[WVUFAN]

PETA is already calling for Vick to be suspended while his involvement is investigated and is calling for him to be released if he is found to have had involvement:

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/6743208?MSNHPHCP&GT1=9331

Because PETA fans are noted for being big football fans, what with the football being made of leather and all.

PETA sucks, and each of its members should be forced to eat McDonald's Double Quarter-pounders.

[Fonzie]

here's a crazy twists on one of the blogs I read (guy is staying in the press hotel for the draft):


This is getting crazy. GB's been rumored to be going after every RB short of Eric Dickerson this week ;)

It is indeed crazy, especially considering how tight-lipped Ted Thompson tends to be. He's blabbing like crazy right now, which makes me think this trade-for-a-running back business is a smoke screen for his real draft plans. My guess is that he's also not serious about taking a running back in the 1st round (and he shouldn't be, given the general interchangeablility of backs in a zone-blocking scheme). Perhaps he wants someone else to grab Marshawn Lynch (or trade up to grab him) so that another player that he really wants drops.

Mix into this the fact that the Packers' medical staff cleared Lynch of back problems without even performing an MRI. Why would TT publicly state that the player most pundits have him picking is perfectly healthy based on limited medical information if he really, really wants that player? TT should be expressing some skepticism about Lynch's back if he wants to be sure of securing Lynch's services.

But then, who does TT want over Lynch? I don't have a clue. Perhaps his plan is simply to convince everyone that he's desperate to grab a RB, and that Lynch is great, just to drum up interest in pick #16. That way someone from the lower half of round one might trade spots with him and he can get more picks in the process.

[Atocep]

You just made me put my tinfoil hat on. :D

[st.cronin]

I've been following this whole dog fighting ring at Michael Vick's semi-occupied palatial estate story on profootballtalk.com. It seems like there's quite a bit of evidence that Vick's place was used as part of a dog fighting ring. 70 pit bulls, some with injuries and scars, many that are malnourished...

If it does turn out that Vick's been using his home for that, or even if he just knew/allowed his house to be used for that... fuck him. He's dead to me.

There are few things that get my blood boiling hotter than the whole dog fighting thing. I just find it repulsive.

Ditto.

[Fonzie]

profootballtalk.com is now reporting that the Patriots might be in the mix for Randy Moss.

They really need another receiver?

[DaddyTorgo]

profootballtalk.com is now reporting that the Patriots might be in the mix for Randy Moss.

They really need another receiver?

i'm going to hurl

[Arles]

But then, who does TT want over Lynch? I don't have a clue. Perhaps his plan is simply to convince everyone that he's desperate to grab a RB, and that Lynch is great, just to drum up interest in pick #16. That way someone from the lower half of round one might trade spots with him and he can get more picks in the process.
If I was pressed to guess what GB will do tomorrow, here's what I would say:

1. Trade down from 16 with KC to 23 and take S Michael Griffin from Texas (get KC's 3rd rounder as well). The Chiefs are reportedly high on 3-4 guys the may go by 20 (Staley, Revis, Lynch) and I could see them moving up for a 3rd.

2. Trade down from #47 with Philly to #57 and take RB Brandon Jackson (get Philly's fourth as well). Jackson is a zone-scheme back from Nebraska who can carry the load and has a nice size/speed combo. He'd be a nice fit with Morency. Philly wants the FB from Rutgers and he may not make it past 50.

3a. Take TE Ben Patrick with #78 (their pick).

3b. Trade KC's pick (#84, ironically enough) to Oakland for Randy Moss.

That would net GB a safety, RB, TE and WR. Then, GB would have 7 picks in day 2 to take shots on other spots (nickel corner, FB, depth). They could also go TE Olsen at #23 and Sabby Piscitelli with #78 and I would be happy.

[WVUFAN]

profootballtalk.com is now reporting that the Patriots might be in the mix for Randy Moss.

They really need another receiver?

The Patriots don't need him.

No, lemme rephrase -- the Patriots don't need the headaches associated with him.

[Fonzie]

If I was pressed to guess what GB will do tomorrow, here's what I would say:

1. Trade down from 16 with KC to 23 and take S Michael Griffin from Texas (get KC's 3rd rounder as well). The Chiefs are reportedly high on 3-4 guys the may go by 20 (Staley, Revis, Lynch) and I could see them moving up for a 3rd.

2. Trade down from #47 with Philly to #57 and take RB Brandon Jackson (get Philly's fourth as well). Jackson is a zone-scheme back from Nebraska who can carry the load and has a nice size/speed combo. He'd be a nice fit with Morency. Philly wants the FB from Rutgers and he may not make it past 50.

3a. Take TE Ben Patrick with #78 (their pick).

3b. Trade KC's pick (#84, ironically enough) to Oakland for Randy Moss.

That would net GB a safety, RB, TE and WR. Then, GB would have 7 picks in day 2 to take shots on other spots (nickel corner, FB, depth). They could also go TE Olsen at #23 and Sabby Piscitelli with #78 and I would be happy.

I would love to see either of those scenarios unfold. Which means, of course, that neither will. ;)

[johnnyshaka]

If I was pressed to guess what GB will do tomorrow, here's what I would say:

2. Trade down from #47 with Philly to #57 and take RB Brandon Jackson (get Philly's fourth as well).



Eagles don't have a 4th rounder this year...the Saints got it for Stallworth.

[JeeberD]

i'm going to hurl

Now you understand my pain...

[Swaggs]

profootballtalk.com is now reporting that the Patriots might be in the mix for Randy Moss.

They really need another receiver?

Would this be Bill Belichek's "I'm Keith Hernandez" moment?

[Arles]

Eagles don't have a 4th rounder this year...the Saints got it for Stallworth.
We could pretty much trade down with anyone from 55-62 and still get him. Maybe New Orleans at 58 would want to move up since they have 3 4th round picks.

[st.cronin]

profootballtalk.com is now reporting that the Patriots might be in the mix for Randy Moss.

They really need another receiver?

That could be like the inverse of the Irving Fryar story. Yeah, I'm a dreamer.

[stevew]

My Eyes burn of Heresy.....

http://media3.steelers.com/MediaContent/2007/04/27/09/75th_Ward_75985.jpg
http://media3.steelers.com/MediaContent/2007/04/27/09/75th_Ward_RooneyArt_75992.jpg

White pants, and piss colored domes.....fuck that. The Jersey, I can live with however. It's basic enough, yet not fugly like the Eagles one.

[Ryche]

If I was pressed to guess what GB will do tomorrow, here's what I would say:

1. Trade down from 16 with KC to 23 and take S Michael Griffin from Texas (get KC's 3rd rounder as well). The Chiefs are reportedly high on 3-4 guys the may go by 20 (Staley, Revis, Lynch) and I could see them moving up for a 3rd.

2. Trade down from #47 with Philly to #57 and take RB Brandon Jackson (get Philly's fourth as well). Jackson is a zone-scheme back from Nebraska who can carry the load and has a nice size/speed combo. He'd be a nice fit with Morency. Philly wants the FB from Rutgers and he may not make it past 50.

3a. Take TE Ben Patrick with #78 (their pick).

3b. Trade KC's pick (#84, ironically enough) to Oakland for Randy Moss.

That would net GB a safety, RB, TE and WR. Then, GB would have 7 picks in day 2 to take shots on other spots (nickel corner, FB, depth). They could also go TE Olsen at #23 and Sabby Piscitelli with #78 and I would be happy.


I had Green Bay trading up to get Adrian Peterson in the mock draft I made. I could easily see them doing that if Peterson gets past Minnesota. Possibly add Moss as well, and that's a potentially scary looking offense for Farve to end his career with.

[Logan]

Darrell Jackson is in San Francisco right now taking a physical. If everything clears, he'll become a Niner for a 4th rounder, #124 (3 of 4 in that round). I'm not a huge Jackson fan, given his injury problems, but to get him from a divisional rival for our lowest tradeable 4th is a steal. Especially for a team with very little in the WR dept.

[Bearcat729]

I swear if the Browns trade up to #1 I will hunt Phil Savage down and kick him repeatedly in the groin. And if Romeo Crennel had anything to do with it then he’ll be next on my list.

[Vinatieri for Prez]

Who better? Wes Welker for a 2nd rounder or Darrell Jackson for a 4th rounder?

[Swaggs]

My Eyes burn of Heresy.....

http://media3.steelers.com/MediaContent/2007/04/27/09/75th_Ward_75985.jpg
http://media3.steelers.com/MediaContent/2007/04/27/09/75th_Ward_RooneyArt_75992.jpg

White pants, and piss colored domes.....fuck that. The Jersey, I can live with however. It's basic enough, yet not fugly like the Eagles one.

and if you like that, you'll love their new mascot. :(

[MikeVic]

What are the steelers doing?? lol damnit.

[stevew]

and if you like that, you'll love their new mascot. :(

http://www.post-gazette.com/images4/steelersmascot1_230.jpg
Shirley they cannot be serious.

[albionmoonlight]

Rumor has it that Keyshawn Johnson was just cut.

I'm trying to decide if that is relevant or not.

[Logan]

Kinda funny when he was going on and on about tutoring Dwayne Jarrett.

[rkmsuf]

Kinda funny when he was going on and on about tutoring Dwayne Jarrett.

Guess the Panthers had a good handle on his tudor ratings. He's the furthest thing from a tudor that you could get I would think.

[MIJB#19]

I didn't know Bob the Builder was a Steelers fan...

[st.cronin]

Ping: Patriots

[Ksyrup]

I would pay 25 billion dollars to see Randy Moss, Keyshawn Johnson, and Terrell Owens line up in a 3 WR set for the Patriots.

I'd pay even more to see them fight over who lines up in a 2-WR set.

[Mike1409]

I could see Keyshawn going to the Eagles. He could prove he is better than TO by actually getting McNabb traded/ released. Or actually killing himself with an overdose of painkillers!

[johnnyshaka]

Hmmm...for the right price, I wouldn't mind seeing him in Philly one bit. Get him out there on 3rd down and in the red zone and he could be very effective...but would he settle for that kind of role and the appropriate dollars...probably not.

[ISiddiqui]

I hope the Falcons find a way to get Keyshawn. A possession reciever would be very helpful (and Keyshawn is better than Finneran at that).

[miami_fan]

I hope the Falcons find a way to get Keyshawn. A possession reciever would be very helpful (and Keyshawn is better than Finneran at that).

I thought that was Joe Horn's role at this point?

[Fonzie]

Given how terribly the Packers have whiffed at everybody in free agency, I probably shouldn't hold out any hope that Ted Thompson will take a stab at Keyshawn.

[QuikSand]

While I agree Keyshawn has a variety of liabilities, I also think that he could help several teams meaningfully. Atl and Phi both seem like reasonable candidates to me, as would KC and... oh, hell, dare I say Oakland?

[MikeVic]

Isn't Keyshawn a decent blocking WR? Maybe I'm completely wrong, but I was always under that impression.

[TazFTW]

Cowboys should bring back Key and not pay TO his roster bonus.

[ISiddiqui]

I thought that was Joe Horn's role at this point?

Oh, right.. the Falcons did get Horn... well, Keyshawn couldn't hurt ;).

[johnnyshaka]

While I agree Keyshawn has a variety of liabilities, I also think that he could help several teams meaningfully. Atl and Phi both seem like reasonable candidates to me, as would KC and... oh, hell, dare I say Oakland?

I would think Keyshawn would be more likely to end up on a "contender" and not a team undergoing a rebuild...so I would think that KC and Oakland probably wouldn't be on his radar.

[JeeberD]

Cowboys should bring back Key and not pay TO his roster bonus.

Word. Or just bring Key back. We need someone with decent hands out there...

[M GO BLUE!!!]

I would think Keyshawn would be more likely to end up on a "contender" and not a team undergoing a rebuild...so I would think that KC and Oakland probably wouldn't be on his radar.

I can think of another team in that division that could use a good posession receiver who can lay a block for a RB... That team could even be a contender.

But why would Keyshawn want to play an hour south of where he lives? :D

[SFL Cat]

Bad time to get released . FA is pretty much over.

He could find himself waiting by the phone hoping someone calls him about a teevee gig.

[Ksyrup]

Re Michael Vick and his issues, I hadn't heard about this one:


"Coming off a disappointing season that saw him fined $10,000 for flipping the bird to local fans, Vick hasn't exactly upped his image the past few months. A water bottle belonging to him was confiscated after security officers smelled pot and saw a hidden compartment on the bottle, a compartment Vick said he used to carry jewelry. Last week he missed a flight to D.C. to lobby before members of Congress for increased funding for after-school programs. Then came this bombshell: Local and federal investigators in Virginia are looking into a possible dog-fighting ring at property owned by Vick."

[Logan]

He talked about that with Suzy Kolber on the day of the draft.

No, he did not ask to kiss her.

[Atocep]

Re Michael Vick and his issues, I hadn't heard about this one:


"Coming off a disappointing season that saw him fined $10,000 for flipping the bird to local fans, Vick hasn't exactly upped his image the past few months. A water bottle belonging to him was confiscated after security officers smelled pot and saw a hidden compartment on the bottle, a compartment Vick said he used to carry jewelry. Last week he missed a flight to D.C. to lobby before members of Congress for increased funding for after-school programs. Then came this bombshell: Local and federal investigators in Virginia are looking into a possible dog-fighting ring at property owned by Vick."


He claims his flight was delayed and it forced him to miss his connecting flight. The airline company said he was never booked on the particular connecting flight he claimed to be booked for. He was instead booked for a flight that was a few hours later that he could have easily made. They had him down as a no-show for that flight.

[Ksyrup]

I was delayed in getting to the draft party I was never supposed to be at, so I guess I missed this story.

[JonInMiddleGA]

http://www.ajc.com/sports/content/sports/falcons/stories/2007/05/05/0506batman.html

Batman Carroll faces drugs, weapons charges
Published on: 05/06/07

Jacksonville Jaguars cornerback Ahmad Carroll, who played at Douglass High and Arkansas, was arrested in Atlanta early Saturday on gun and drugs charges. Carroll, 23, was releaased on bond after a morning court appearance.

At about 2:45 a.m. Saturday, police responded to a call of a disturbance involving a weapon at Beautiful Restaurant on Cascade Road in southwest Atlanta. Carroll, who was said to be involved in the disturbance, was questioned by officers and admitted that he had a weapon, Atlanta police Officer James Polite said. The NFL cornerback consented to a search of his person and his vehicle, Polite said.

Carroll was arrested on suspicion of possessing of a firearm in the commission of a crime; carrying a concealed weapon without a permit; carrying a pistol without a license; and possession of 11 pink tablets that police believe to be Ecstasy pills, Polite said. Carroll was taken to Fulton County jail.

[Ksyrup]

Updated: May 10, 2007, 9:56 AM ET
Report claims Vick has 'affinity' for dog-fighting culture
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-TOP: 10px" vAlign=top><!-- begin leftcol --><!-- template inline -->ATLANTA -- Two friends of Atlanta Falcons quarterback Michael Vick are convinced he has been involved in illegal dog fighting at a home he owns in Virginia, they told SI.com on Thursday, despite Vick's denials.

"He knows what's going on in that house in Virginia," one unnamed source told SI.com. "There's not a doubt in my mind he's involved with it."

A second source, quoted by SI.com, said Vick has a longtime "affinity" for the culture surrounding dog fighting.

On Wednesday, Falcons head coach Bobby Petrino said he hopes his star quarterback will soon be cleared of any connection to the dozens of dogs found last month at the home Vick owns in Smithfield, Va. Police were conducting a drug raid on the house at the time the dogs were discovered.

"I need to believe in Michael," said Petrino, the Falcons' coach since January. "Since I've been here, a couple of situations have come up and we've talked about them. His track record with me is that he's told me the truth. I'm going to believe what Michael tells me."

In interviews given during the NFL draft, Vick blamed wayward relatives for taking advantage of his generosity and insisted that he's rarely at the Virginia house -- even though he owns it.

Falcons owner Arthur Blank, contacted by SI.com by phone on Wednesday, also denied insinuations that he has been soft on his $130 million quarterback.

"There's no coddling going on here,'' Blank said to SI.com. "Whatever is 180 degrees from that, that's the reality. The [financial] investment we've made in him has nothing to do with the way we treat him. When Michael has done something wrong that has been documented, we've had very direct conversations with him. We don't have all the facts of the [dog fighting] investigation, but obviously the story's not developing well. Which is one of the reasons why I asked [commissioner Roger Goodell] to speak to Michael about the situation and to be as stern as he felt he needed to be.''

Vick told ESPN during the draft that he had met face-to-face with Goodell in late April. In the interview, Vick pledged he would make changes in his life.

"I'm taking it upon myself and giving everybody my word that things are going to get changed around," Vick said in the interview. "Things are going to get turned around. I have a game plan for it. ... The company I keep, a lot of things [have] got to change, and I mean that from the heart."

Blank added that he expects Vick's behavior to change.

"I would say Michael understands, and I told him he is in essence on a short leash,'' Blank told SI.com. "His behavior cannot go on this way. His actions need to be different; his decisions need to be different. He can't just talk about changing things, he has to change his life. He says he understands, and I'm hoping he's being truthful with us and wants to deal with it. I hope he has the personal strength. I think it's very appropriate to say he's at a crossroads.''

Vick does have an apparent interest in breeding animals such as pit bulls and Rottweilers. A Web site for "Mike Vick K-9 Kennels'' includes a disclaimer that any of its dogs are used for fighting, which is banned nationwide and is a felony in 48 states including Virginia and Georgia.

Another Web site for an Atlanta-area breeder, Sanders Kennels, shows a picture of Vick holding a Presa Canario puppy, an animal that it says is "bred for loyalty, protection, guarding, and peace of mind. They can and will protect.''

The Falcons begin a three-day minicamp this weekend, with Petrino looking to install his offense and see what several rookies might bring to his team.

"This weekend is a situation where we have to focus everything on football," Petrino said. "That's what I'm going to talk about over the weekend. We only have five practices and one mandatory minicamp. We've got to take all the distractions, put them on the shelf and concentrate on football. I'm going to instruct our team to do that."


</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

[rkmsuf]

dog fighting culture? who knew there was such a thing.

[Honolulu_Blue]

http://www.ajc.com/sports/content/sports/falcons/stories/2007/05/05/0506batman.html

Batman Carroll faces drugs, weapons charges
Published on: 05/06/07

Jacksonville Jaguars cornerback Ahmad Carroll, who played at Douglass High and Arkansas, was arrested in Atlanta early Saturday on gun and drugs charges. Carroll, 23, was releaased on bond after a morning court appearance.

At about 2:45 a.m. Saturday, police responded to a call of a disturbance involving a weapon at Beautiful Restaurant on Cascade Road in southwest Atlanta. Carroll, who was said to be involved in the disturbance, was questioned by officers and admitted that he had a weapon, Atlanta police Officer James Polite said. The NFL cornerback consented to a search of his person and his vehicle, Polite said.

Carroll was arrested on suspicion of possessing of a firearm in the commission of a crime; carrying a concealed weapon without a permit; carrying a pistol without a license; and possession of 11 pink tablets that police believe to be Ecstasy pills, Polite said. Carroll was taken to Fulton County jail.

I was really sad when the Packers cut this guy. He was good for at least 2-3 horrible pass interference type plays a game.

[flere-imsaho]

Watch any of those "animal rescue" shows on Animal Planet. Almost every show it seems they're rescueing some dog from a fighting ring.

[Comey]

My Eyes burn of Heresy.....

http://media3.steelers.com/MediaContent/2007/04/27/09/75th_Ward_75985.jpg
http://media3.steelers.com/MediaContent/2007/04/27/09/75th_Ward_RooneyArt_75992.jpg

White pants, and piss colored domes.....fuck that. The Jersey, I can live with however. It's basic enough, yet not fugly like the Eagles one.

Unsure if you are aware, but that's just for their 75th anniversary. They'll wear that for one game, like the Eagles will for one game (I believe that's 9/23, though I'm not remembering off the top of my head if that's right or not).

-John

[MikeVic]

http://www.ajc.com/sports/content/sports/falcons/stories/2007/05/05/0506batman.html

Batman Carroll faces drugs, weapons charges
Published on: 05/06/07

Jacksonville Jaguars cornerback Ahmad Carroll, who played at Douglass High and Arkansas, was arrested in Atlanta early Saturday on gun and drugs charges. Carroll, 23, was releaased on bond after a morning court appearance.

At about 2:45 a.m. Saturday, police responded to a call of a disturbance involving a weapon at Beautiful Restaurant on Cascade Road in southwest Atlanta. Carroll, who was said to be involved in the disturbance, was questioned by officers and admitted that he had a weapon, Atlanta police Officer James Polite said. The NFL cornerback consented to a search of his person and his vehicle, Polite said.

Carroll was arrested on suspicion of possessing of a firearm in the commission of a crime; carrying a concealed weapon without a permit; carrying a pistol without a license; and possession of 11 pink tablets that police believe to be Ecstasy pills, Polite said. Carroll was taken to Fulton County jail.

"Batman" Carroll?? What the.

[Ksyrup]

I didn't realize Culpepper was on the way out. I just thought they were bringing in Green for competition/depth.



Fins will swap Green for Culpepper (http://fannation.com/truth_and_rumors/view/2776)

Posted: Thursday May 10, 2007 10:26AM ET

Despite the apparent logic in giving Daunte Culpepper (http://fannation.com/tags/show_tag/600) and Ricky Williams (http://fannation.com/tags/show_tag/594) a chance, it has been reported Miami will trade or release Culpepper when the seemingly forever-imminent Trent Green (http://fannation.com/tags/show_tag/180) deal happens.

[moriarty]

I didn't realize Culpepper was on the way out. I just thought they were bringing in Green for competition/depth.



Fins will swap Green for Culpepper (http://fannation.com/truth_and_rumors/view/2776)

Posted: Thursday May 10, 2007 10:26AM ET

Despite the apparent logic in giving Daunte Culpepper (http://fannation.com/tags/show_tag/600) and Ricky Williams (http://fannation.com/tags/show_tag/594) a chance, it has been reported Miami will trade or release Culpepper when the seemingly forever-imminent Trent Green (http://fannation.com/tags/show_tag/180) deal happens.

I think they were trying to unload Culpepper to Oakland IIRC prior to the draft. Probably has more to do with cap issues "if" they can bring in Green.

[Bad-example]

From Rotoworld:

CBS 8 in Las Vegas reports LB Richard Siegler, who was released by the Steelers on Thursday, is being targeted by police for his alleged involvement in a juvenile prostitution ring on the streets of Las Vegas.
Siegler was arrested in Pittsburgh shortly after he was cut. The third-year player is charged with enticing women to become prostitutes and running an escort service. He faces three felony counts and ten years in jail.

[Vince]

Does this Draft Grade make anyone else smile?


A+
Oakland Raiders (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/teams/oak/;_ylt=AvGvXB9M81neNR1Nh9DAxXY.ubYF). They got their franchise QB in JaMarcus Russell (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/8255/;_ylt=AjV0i2kybFMXF03SAS0cMy4.ubYF), acquired the draft's best TE in Zach Miller (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/8292/;_ylt=Aq4dkB3Ftem7lV3AtUt94MY.ubYF) and picked up RB Michael Bush (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/8354/;_ylt=Avg.Ve6NOugN0WZQ9Yb4Pj8.ubYF), who could start in 2008 after a season of being a backup and getting healthy.
Miami Dolphins (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/teams/mia/;_ylt=AkOhMmGRKSHRiR3VDdKtfS8.ubYF). The first three picks--WR Ted Ginn Jr. (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/8263/;_ylt=Anb0tYp1em3bWdAIPk4f9r4.ubYF), QB John Beck (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/8294/;_ylt=AtWMjje0PKPhEQRmJ2gpz8c.ubYF) and C Samson Satele (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/8314/;_ylt=AlSKHFDre3bhztJa1Rw9xJ4.ubYF)--should all become starters quickly. The smart, mature Beck could be ready by opening day. RB Lorenzo Booker (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/8325/;_ylt=AiLQkUxx4J3JLvMS5aXdP08.ubYF) will help immediately as a third-down back.

Linky (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news;_ylt=AlYaZMHsJUAR52Rkt98mFfodsLYF?slug=gradingthenfldraft&prov=tsn&type=lgns).

[AlexB]

The description of the Dolphins picks futures, if not the grade, seems to be a general consensus. Even if you think that Ginn was not worth #9, he should be a starter soon given our other receivers, by all accounts Cameron's always been keen on Beck, which is why he was picked in the 2nd, and given the other QBs we have, and in particular Daunte's health, it's not too far fetched that he will be starting week 1, and given our not exactly stellar O-line Satele must have a shot as well.

And the whole point of Booker is apparently 3rd down back.

Given that even the coaches can't assess a draft until two or three years afterwards, let alone during rookie mini camp FFS, this type of bandwagon jumping 'opinion' has been done to death already by people who basically can say what they want because they can't be proved wrong. Yet. And in 2-3 years time, if the picks all work out, this type of insignificant self-serving smirking smugness on an internet message baord will be long forgotten. So you're in a can't lose situation of smirking at something that can't yet be assessed.

So no, doesn't really make me smile - seems not too far out if graded by how much the picks might be able to offer immediate improvment.

[albionmoonlight]

Reading this closely, there is still no direct link between Vick and the dog fighting. Granted, the circumstantial evidence is piled so high that it blocks out the sun, but nothing directly refutes his story that he was an unknowing landlord with a tennant engaged in illegal stuff.

Here, we have one friend who has "not a doubt in [his] mind" that Vick knew what was happening, and another friend who says that Vick has an affinity for dog fighting.

We have yet to have anyone that I have seen say "I know for a fact that Vick was directly involved in the dog fighting ring because I saw/helped/etc. him do it."

The media knows that this story goes away as soon as Vick's name drops off it, so they will do whatever they can to keep him linked to it.

Until we start hearing from official sources that he is a suspect in a felony investigation, I am going to look at this with some skepticism.

I guess, at the end of the day, I trust the media slightly less than I trust NFL players.


<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-TOP: 10px" vAlign=top><!-- begin leftcol --><!-- template inline -->ATLANTA -- Two friends of Atlanta Falcons quarterback Michael Vick are convinced he has been involved in illegal dog fighting at a home he owns in Virginia, they told SI.com on Thursday, despite Vick's denials.

"He knows what's going on in that house in Virginia," one unnamed source told SI.com. "There's not a doubt in my mind he's involved with it."

A second source, quoted by SI.com, said Vick has a longtime "affinity" for the culture surrounding dog fighting.
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

[miami_fan]

I just read an article about the Lions attempting to recoup a part of Charles Rogers' bonus. The interesting part was that Rogers has not been signed by another team. Is his career really over at this point?

[Logan]

Does this Draft Grade make anyone else smile?



Linky (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news;_ylt=AlYaZMHsJUAR52Rkt98mFfodsLYF?slug=gradingthenfldraft&prov=tsn&type=lgns).

I think I said this in the draft thread...but The Sporting News rated Quinn as a 3rd rounder and were getting killed for it all over. So giving an A+ to the team who famously passed on him would seem like the automatic thing to do.

[st.cronin]

Reading this closely, there is still no direct link between Vick and the dog fighting. Granted, the circumstantial evidence is piled so high that it blocks out the sun, but nothing directly refutes his story that he was an unknowing landlord with a tennant engaged in illegal stuff.

Here, we have one friend who has "not a doubt in [his] mind" that Vick knew what was happening, and another friend who says that Vick has an affinity for dog fighting.

We have yet to have anyone that I have seen say "I know for a fact that Vick was directly involved in the dog fighting ring because I saw/helped/etc. him do it."

The media knows that this story goes away as soon as Vick's name drops off it, so they will do whatever they can to keep him linked to it.

Until we start hearing from official sources that he is a suspect in a felony investigation, I am going to look at this with some skepticism.

I guess, at the end of the day, I trust the media slightly less than I trust NFL players.


I heard that there was a web site advertising dog fighting that had Vick's picture. Now, its POSSIBLE his picture was used without his consent... but added to everything else, its really stretching plausibility.

At the very least, he's guilty of being incredibly stupid.

[Ksyrup]

That article talks about his picture appearing on a website, but I think it is for dog breeding, not fighting.

If this is all "in the family," it's doubtful he will get hurt by this. However, coupled with his ownership of the property, if someone decides to crack and gives him up, he could be in some serious trouble. But it's doubtful that those peoples' statements would be enough to go forward on.

[rkmsuf]

Mike Vick is a farging corksucker.

[MikeVic]

Steelers sign RB Kevan Barlow.

http://news.steelers.com/article/76414/

[Ksyrup]

Mike Vick is a farging corksucker.

If he continues going down this path and is thrown out of the league, I will grant him an exception if he ever catches an extra point while attending an NFL game as a spectator. That ball will be a reminder of what he threw away. In fact, he should be forced to keep it.

[MikeVic]

If he continues going down this path and is thrown out of the league, I will grant him an exception if he ever catches an extra point while attending an NFL game as a spectator. That ball will be a reminder of what he threw away. In fact, he should be forced to keep it.

Hey man, I ain't no Rickey Henderson. I could only dream to be such a superior athlete.

[stevew]

we need one central "piss on Michael Vick" thread. All the good material is spread too far out.

[Pumpy Tudors]

My boss is really, really excited about the Kevan Barlow signing. I mean, he was literally dancing in my office and singing Kevan Barlow's name. I damn near reported his behavior to HR just because I fear for his sanity.

[sachmo71]

My boss is really, really excited about the Kevan Barlow signing. I mean, he was literally dancing in my office and singing Kevan Barlow's name. I damn near reported his behavior to HR just because I fear for his sanity.

not quite sure why...

[stevew]

Whenever I need 3 yards per carry, I put out the bat-signal for Kevan Barlow. Sigh, one legit running back on the entire roster, I suppose the closet pooper is okay, and we don't draft a single back. Make sure to trigger the stevew suicide watch if Willie Parker gets injured.

[rkmsuf]

love the closet pooping story

[stevew]

Guard Alan Faneca is apparently trying to get out. Sorry, not a good idea to invest money into a 30 year old guard that's declining.


This will be my last year as a Pittsburgh Steeler," Faneca declared.

"You go somewhere, you've been here for nine years; to do what I've done to help this team out. The things I've done for this team ... and the offer I get is pretty much a non-offer. What am I to think? What are the guys in this room to think? If they can do it to me and everybody else and let Joey [Porter] go and do things like that, what does that say to the rest of the guys?"

Faneca said he's talked to "everyone" in the front office, including Art Rooney, Dan Rooney and Kevin Colbert.

"I've been asking since February, to trade me, to let me go,'' Faneca said in such an emotional interview that at times his left hand was shaking slightly. "I've done my piece, I've done my time, I've done everything I can for this organization.

"I lived and breathed Steelers football for nine years and gave them everything I had, helped them win a Super Bowl. In my mind, I've earned the right to be treated fairly. To make me go out there this year, play football with no security ... for what I've done for this organization, in my mind is not right."

[Dr. Sak]

My boss is really, really excited about the Kevan Barlow signing. I mean, he was literally dancing in my office and singing Kevan Barlow's name. I damn near reported his behavior to HR just because I fear for his sanity.

Is he a Pitt fan?

[Butter]

So, with an outburst like that, would you cut Faneca prior to the season?

[Pumpy Tudors]

not quite sure why...
Not sure why my boss was dancing, or not quite sure why I fear for his sanity?

Is he a Pitt fan?
He claims to be.

[JeeberD]

From Rotoworld:

I'm not sure why this isn't getting more play from y'all (probably because it's a player that most of us have never heard of), but that's some seriously f'd up shit right there...

[albionmoonlight]

I'm not sure why this isn't getting more play from y'all (probably because it's a player that most of us have never heard of), but that's some seriously f'd up shit right there...

I agree. And 10 years in prison is the max penalty for that?

You would think that running a child sex ring would have larger maximum penalties behind it.

[Logan]

Guard Alan Faneca is apparently trying to get out. Sorry, not a good idea to invest money into a 30 year old guard that's declining.

Bring on Cam Stephensen baby!

[stevew]

So, with an outburst like that, would you cut Faneca prior to the season?

I'd switch him to punter first before I cut him, but yeah, he wouldn't be on my team next year. It's beyond posturing for a new deal, he whipped out his dick and pissed on the team. Fuck him.

We aren't the Browns, paying journeymen linemen(guys maybe a notch above) 5 to 7 million a year. Faneca has gotten every penny of the fair market 25 million dollar deal he signed 6 years ago. He's been among the highest paid guards every year except for the last 2.

I think we'll plug a big ugly in there, and be good to go next year. I don't really expect much out of the 2007 Steelers, so we can go 8-8 with or without him. I don't think we'll get a pick for him now, maybe we could have gotten one earlier in FA, but it's hard to say. Hell, if they knew he felt this way, I would have cut him the same time they cut Porter, and maybe tried to sign someone like Banta Cain harder, and drafted an o-line in the first.

[stevew]

Bring on Cam Stephensen baby!

Dude better make the farging team. I'm sure wrestling with Casey Hampton in the trenches daily at practice should make him a better player.

[stevew]

I'm not sure why this isn't getting more play from y'all (probably because it's a player that most of us have never heard of), but that's some seriously f'd up shit right there...

Yeah, I don't even know if I remember him playing either. It's that #95 jersey....Lloyd wore it, and then stuck his gun in his child's mouth. And Siegler likes to pimp teenagers. Sad thing is that if he wouldn't have gotten hurt last year, he may have been in the mix at starting OLB this season.

[stevew]

ANOTHER BOMBSHELL: BUCHANAN SAYS VICK FIGHTS DOGS

In a Friday afternoon interview with our buddy Steve Duemig of 620 WDAE in Tampa, Chris Landry of Fox Sports Radio said that former Atlanta Falcons defensive back Ray Buchanan told Landry on the weekend of the NFL draft that Vick is directly involved in dog fighting.

Said Landry of his discussion with Buchanan: "He tells me that Michael has been into this dog fighting for so long that . . . .he not only knew about, he is behind all of it, he's paying for all of it. . . . Apparently, he's into it big time."

Landry also said that Vick was actively recruiting teammates to become involved in the "sport." The audio of the Landry interview can be heard right here.

Buchanan was a member of the Falcons for the first three years of Vick's career.

It'll be interesting to see what Buchanan has to say when someone calls him up in response to this item.



Falcons looking good in offseason.

[st.cronin]

So, who's going to be the Falcons qb while Vick is suspended? Maybe they'll pick up Culpepper.

[SunDevil]

So, who's going to be the Falcons qb while Vick is suspended? Maybe they'll pick up Culpepper.

No Culpepper will get beat out again by Harrington. :D

[Eaglesfan27]

Have a nice vacation, Ron.

[Vinatieri for Prez]

If this is the case, then the feds will be interviewing these players (and no one is risking obstruction of justice and misleading federal investigators for Vick). And if it's true -- he's going to jail. And honestly cannot believe this is happening. Again, I say IF true.

[Eaglesfan27]

If this is the case, then the feds will be interviewing these players (and no one is risking obstruction of justice and misleading federal investigators for Vick). And if it's true -- he's going to jail. And honestly cannot believe this is happening. Again, I say IF true.

Exactly. If it was all in the family, I could see them protecting him and being quiet. However, I can't see former teammates staying quiet when facing legal repercussions.

[Honolulu_Blue]

If this is the case, then the feds will be interviewing these players (and no one is risking obstruction of justice and misleading federal investigators for Vick). And if it's true -- he's going to jail. And honestly cannot believe this is happening. Again, I say IF true.

Sadly, I think he's guilty and I don't think he'll go to jail. IF true, however, I'd rather see him get smothered with honey and thrown in a pit with a bear then go to jail.

I'd put $50 on the bear.

[st.cronin]

If this is the case, then the feds will be interviewing these players (and no one is risking obstruction of justice and misleading federal investigators for Vick). And if it's true -- he's going to jail. And honestly cannot believe this is happening. Again, I say IF true.

If true, I hope he goes to jail.

[Ksyrup]

If there's anything ordinary people hate, it's animal cruelty. If I gave my wife the child prostitute story and the dog fighting story, she'd be much more pissed about the dog fighting, I bet. If solid evidence develops on this, even if he plea bargains this away or does the Jamal Lewis off-season prison stay, I don't think he'll ever recover from this in the public eye. His career is already at a crossroads; without the money he could still make from endorsements, we may be looking at a punch line in 3 years.

Unbelieveable. You had to figure there was a bit of fire from all the smoke. The animal cruelty people saying they'd heard rumors of it long before any of us had an inkling somewhat surprised me. If he did try to recruit guys, and a number of them aren't still his teammate and don't feel particularly loyal to him, they may get their evidence.

Favre to the Falcons!!!

[Ksyrup]

Oh, and back on the Randy Moss thing, I find it hard to believe this guy is just going to turn it all around on a dime simply because he's with the Pats.


Ex-Raiders coordinator rips Moss (http://fannation.com/truth_and_rumors/view/3069)

Posted: Monday May 14, 2007 04:30AM ET

Former Raiders offensive coordinator Tom Walsh described a play in a loss to the Browns (http://fannation.com/tags/show_tag/5) in which a play-action pass was called and Randy Moss (http://fannation.com/tags/show_tag/469) was asked to run a square-in on the weak side. The linebacker was sucked up inside by the fake, according to Walsh, and Moss was expected to run the in-route. As Walsh recalled it, "He runs a 9 [deep go] route. "Andrew Walter (http://fannation.com/tags/show_tag/2298) makes the play-fake and a huge hole opens up for Randy in the middle of the field but he's running down the sideline. When Randy gets to the sidelines, [wide receivers coach] Freddie Biletnikoff says, 'What were you doing?' "Randy told Fred, 'I didn't feel like running the 6 route on the dirt part of the infield.' That's the Randy I coached. There were some games where out of 28 plays he'd have 13 or 14 busts. Wrong routes, wrong reads. Dogging it. Whatever."

[albionmoonlight]

Exactly. If it was all in the family, I could see them protecting him and being quiet. However, I can't see former teammates staying quiet when facing legal repercussions.

To pick your professional brain for a second here:

I have a sense that dog fighting is . . . jacked up is a way that other violent crimes are not. Like, sick in the head kind of jacked up--like pedophelia (sp?) or being a fire bug or that sort of thing.

Is that true? There just seems to be something different in kind about abusing animals for money than, for instance, being involved in the drug trade, or prostitution, or theft, etc.

[Ksyrup]

It'll be interesting to see what Buchanan says publicly, if anything, about this supposed conversation. Since it's about a subject totally off of football and about something that has come up as an issue with Vick after the conversation supposedly occurred, it's not like he can just say there was a misunderstanding.. He's probably going to have to say they never discussed it at all and the reporter is completely lying. Because really, what reason would a football reporter and a former player have for discussing dog fighting in any sense, let alone with Vick's name attached?

[sachmo71]

DEF - NE - Junior Seau Returning To New England?

Source: Jim Trotter, The San Diego Union-Tribune

A source familiar with the situation reported last night that veteran linebacker Junior Seau will re-sign with the New England Patriots late next week, pending a physical exam. Seau is 38 and would be entering his 18th season in the NFL.

[albionmoonlight]

It'll be interesting to see what Buchanan says publicly, if anything, about this supposed conversation. Since it's about a subject totally off of football and about something that has come up as an issue with Vick after the conversation supposedly occurred, it's not like he can just say there was a misunderstanding.. He's probably going to have to say they never discussed it at all and the reporter is completely lying. Because really, what reason would a football reporter and a former player have for discussing dog fighting in any sense, let alone with Vick's name attached?

It will also be interesting to see what he says if/when the FBI starts asking him about his conversation. I can't imagine that he would have any reason to set himself up for an obstruction charge by not telling the truth.

[stevew]

I would absoulutely love to be Mike Vick's lawyer right now. IF there is an indictment, and that's probably a big IF, there is no possible way that Vick can plead guilty to any sort of lesser charge and still expect to play in the NFL EVER again. I think Goddell has more than demonstrated he is a hard ass, and a justified hard ass. Dog fighting is among the lowest of the low things that you can do, and I see no reason why he won't at least try/get a lifetime ban for it.

Gone are the days of 2 games for Drug Dealing(J-lew) and 4 games for killing someone(Little). The commish actually GETS it, and is not going to tolerate shit like Tags did.

I wouldn't be suprised if his cousin flips, IF there is actually a link with Vick and the dog fighting.

[Ksyrup]

I guess Michael was a late bloomer, and Marcus peaked too early.

[st.cronin]

I would absoulutely love to be Mike Vick's lawyer right now. IF there is an indictment, and that's probably a big IF, there is no possible way that Vick can plead guilty to any sort of lesser charge and still expect to play in the NFL EVER again. I think Goddell has more than demonstrated he is a hard ass, and a justified hard ass. Dog fighting is among the lowest of the low things that you can do, and I see no reason why he won't at least try/get a lifetime ban for it.

Gone are the days of 2 games for Drug Dealing(J-lew) and 4 games for killing someone(Little). The commish actually GETS it, and is not going to tolerate shit like Tags did.

I wouldn't be suprised if his cousin flips, IF there is actually a link with Vick and the dog fighting.

I'm not sure why you would LOVE to be Vick's lawyer. It seems to me a very real possibility that Vick will never play again, and will then be unable to pay his lawyer.

[stevew]

I'm not sure why you would LOVE to be Vick's lawyer. It seems to me a very real possibility that Vick will never play again, and will then be unable to pay his lawyer.

He still has a lot of money for now, and to put together the potential defense he may need will be extremely expensive. And you're talking about YEARS worth of legal work if they suspend him....I know eventually the money train will end, but right now it's full steam ahead.

[Vinatieri for Prez]

I believe the Buchanana interviewed was taped. There's audio of it out there somewhere. Again though, what makes you think Buchanan is at all interested in covering for Vick at this stage of things?

[Vinatieri for Prez]

Oh, and back on the Randy Moss thing, I find it hard to believe this guy is just going to turn it all around on a dime simply because he's with the Pats.


Ex-Raiders coordinator rips Moss (http://fannation.com/truth_and_rumors/view/3069)

Posted: Monday May 14, 2007 04:30AM ET

Former Raiders offensive coordinator Tom Walsh described a play in a loss to the Browns (http://fannation.com/tags/show_tag/5) in which a play-action pass was called and Randy Moss (http://fannation.com/tags/show_tag/469) was asked to run a square-in on the weak side. The linebacker was sucked up inside by the fake, according to Walsh, and Moss was expected to run the in-route. As Walsh recalled it, "He runs a 9 [deep go] route. "Andrew Walter (http://fannation.com/tags/show_tag/2298) makes the play-fake and a huge hole opens up for Randy in the middle of the field but he's running down the sideline. When Randy gets to the sidelines, [wide receivers coach] Freddie Biletnikoff says, 'What were you doing?' "Randy told Fred, 'I didn't feel like running the 6 route on the dirt part of the infield.' That's the Randy I coached. There were some games where out of 28 plays he'd have 13 or 14 busts. Wrong routes, wrong reads. Dogging it. Whatever."

Thanks, but I'll pass on taking the incompetent and bitter Tom Walsh's word on anything.

[Vinatieri for Prez]

I'm not sure why you would LOVE to be Vick's lawyer. It seems to me a very real possibility that Vick will never play again, and will then be unable to pay his lawyer.

A nice healthy retainer takes care of all of that.

[Ksyrup]

You mean Buchanan's interview with Landry, or Landry's interview about Buchanan? I sure hope it's the former, then it's just a matter of tracking down others as opposed to an argument over whether he said those things or not.

[Ksyrup]

Thanks, but I'll pass on taking the incompetent and bitter Tom Walsh's word on anything.

Yes, I know the evidence throughout Moss' career tends to show that Walsh is just making it all up... :confused:

[Vinatieri for Prez]

Yes, I know the evidence throughout Moss' career tends to show that Walsh is just making it all up... :confused:

Um, no. My point is I can use my own eyes to see Randy's lack of dedication. And there has been plenty of that. I'll just pass on putting stock in a guy who probably is only months removed from believing he lost his coaching job due to Moss.

Let's put it this way. On a weaker team with a weaker locker room and weaker coach than in New England for a long term contract, I would pass on Moss most definitely because Moss cannot function in a situation like that. But in New England, he has a shot at it. That's all.

[Atocep]

My hate for the Patriots rivals my hate for the Yankees, but I think Moss will be fine in New England. He's the type of person that can't function in a losing environment. I'm not saying what he's done is ok or anything of that nature, but I really don't believe you'll see it in New England.

Moss for a 4th rounder will go down as the steal of the draft. He's going to play with a QB that he knows can get him the ball, a coach he'll respect, and he's playing for a contract.

[Vinatieri for Prez]

You mean Buchanan's interview with Landry, or Landry's interview about Buchanan? I sure hope it's the former, then it's just a matter of tracking down others as opposed to an argument over whether he said those things or not.

Right. I stand corrected. Only the Landry interview was on tape.

And as predicted by others, I believe Buchanana just recently issued his first denial.

[Ksyrup]

Um, no. My point is I can use my own eyes to see Randy's lack of dedication. And there has been plenty of that. I'll just pass on putting stock in a guy who probably is only months removed from believing he lost his coaching job due to Moss.

Let's put it this way. On a weaker team with a weaker locker room and weaker coach than in New England for a long term contract, I would pass on Moss most definitely because Moss cannot function in a situation like that. But in New England, he has a shot at it. That's all.

I still don't see what that has to do with what Walsh said. We've certainly seen plenty of evidence of exactly what he described, so the only reason not to "put stock" in what he's said is if you believe what he described didn't happen.

[Ksyrup]

Right. I stand corrected. Only the Landry interview was on tape.

And as predicted by others, I believe Buchanana just recently issued his first denial.

I like saying Buchanana. Keep spelling it that way. ;)

[Vinatieri for Prez]

I guess all I can say is I'll need other confirmation before I believe a bitter Walsh that Randy blew 14 of 28 assignments. I'm not saying it didn't happen. I'm not saying it did either.

[Eaglesfan27]

To pick your professional brain for a second here:

I have a sense that dog fighting is . . . jacked up is a way that other violent crimes are not. Like, sick in the head kind of jacked up--like pedophelia (sp?) or being a fire bug or that sort of thing.

Is that true? There just seems to be something different in kind about abusing animals for money than, for instance, being involved in the drug trade, or prostitution, or theft, etc.


There aren't many studies that have examined this issue, however, there are a few. Most experts in childhood development of sociopathy consider cruelty to animals (outside of hunting and eating them) to be one of the cardinal signs of sociopathy that is the worst prognostic factor (along with malicious fire starting and wetting/messing oneself intentionally.) Cruelty to common house hold pets is worse in that hierarchy than say cruelty to a bug or something repulsive. Those studies have been extended to include a belief that in adults animal cruelty is a marker for more severe forms of sociopathic behavior and lack of empathy for one's fellow man.

[albionmoonlight]

I guess that there could still be federal charges brought against Vick, but it looks like the state is not that interested in pursuing anything.

http://www.wvec.com/news/topstories/stories/wvec_local_051407_vick.6c10df24.html


Two different sources in law enforcement say NFL quarterback Michael Vick not only knew about the dog fighting at a house he owned, but that he was an active participant at the fights that allegedly took place behind the house.

When investigators took a peek behind Vick’s property last month, they found dozens of pit bulls with cuts and scars. They discovered a fighting ring, treadmills and blood soaked carpeting, but they also found documents they say, "Absolutely link Vick to the dog-fighting operation."

In the nearly three weeks since the bust, investigators tell 13News they've interviewed multiple people who say they went to dog fights on the property and saw Vick there.

They're also investigating posts on an underground dog fighting web site.

In 2003, a breeder with the name MV Kennels boasted about having dogs capable of killing in 14 minutes. An entry for a dog named Maggie Mae said, "Nothing lived long enough to fight back."

Two men identifying themselves as friends of Vick seemed to be doing landscape work at Vick’s home Monday, days after Vick sold the property.

Initially Vick said he'd never been to the house, though numerous neighbors told us he was there regularly.

In a weekend press conference, Vick declined to talk about the case.

"The situation is still under investigation," said Vick. "And my attorneys have advised me not to talk about it right now."

Yet with all this evidence, there are no charges yet. Investigators say they're frustrated with the Commonwealth's Attorney who'd be the one to file those charges. They say he has not even scheduled a meeting to review the evidence.

Commonwealth’s Attorney Gerald Poindexter would not talk to us on camera but said off-camera, "They have not requested a meeting with me. That is a lie."

But both sources said they've tried repeatedly to reach Poindexter.

One investigator had multiple attorneys with dog fighting case law experience call Poindexter to offer help. The investigator says Poindexter never called back, yet Poindexter told us the case is wrapping up.

"There should be a conclusion in 7 to 10 days," he said.

He would not disclose any parts of the investigation, saying lawyers who do that are despicable, and he would not say if now he plans to call a meeting with investigators.

[albionmoonlight]

dola-

Though having lived through the whole Duke Rape disgrace up here, I can say that I appreciate a prosecuting attorney who does not talk about charges in the media.

[Ksyrup]

If that evidence is there, this guy is going to get roasted for not bring charges against Vick. I mean, not only is there supposedly evidence that he actively participated, but he owns the damn property!

At some point, those witness statements will be made public and this guy will have to answer for what he did (or failed to do). Then again, it could be that he has the evidence and is keeping everything close to the vest so as not to allow leaks, which might mean he's planning to charge Vick. Who knows.

[Ksyrup]

Yeah, my last point is related to the Duke thing. Maybe he's keeping the investigators and other 3rd parties out of it to lessen the chances of information getting out before he decides what to do. If the evidence is what they say it is, maybe he doesn't need any help in making this decision - he just doesn't want many people knowing what the decision is.

[Ksyrup]

I wonder what he means by a "conclusion in 7 to 10 days." I guess that could mean the investigation concludes, or the case concludes. The author seems to think it means the case, but I don't necessarily read it that way.

[JPhillips]

There aren't many studies that have examined this issue, however, there are a few. Most experts in childhood development of sociopathy consider cruelty to animals (outside of hunting and eating them) to be one of the cardinal signs of sociopathy that is the worst prognostic factor (along with malicious fire starting and wetting/messing oneself intentionally.) Cruelty to common house hold pets is worse in that hierarchy than say cruelty to a bug or something repulsive. Those studies have been extended to include a belief that in adults animal cruelty is a marker for more severe forms of sociopathic behavior and lack of empathy for one's fellow man.

But isn't this also a cultural thing? I don't think all fans of bullfighting are sociopaths. I know a Filipino playwright that has included cock fighting in a number of his plays as a way to explore coming into manhood. I'm not trying to defend Vick in any way, but it would seem that cultural norms have to play a very big role in determining the meaning of a love for animal fighting.

I would also think that there is a difference between an organized fighting ring and animal torture, but I don't know about that.

[Eaglesfan27]

But isn't this also a cultural thing? I don't think all fans of bullfighting are sociopaths. I know a Filipino playwright that has included cock fighting in a number of his plays as a way to explore coming into manhood. I'm not trying to defend Vick in any way, but it would seem that cultural norms have to play a very big role in determining the meaning of a love for animal fighting.

I would also think that there is a difference between an organized fighting ring and animal torture, but I don't know about that.

Actually, at least one of the studies I know of is cross cultural. People who like to see animals kill each other usually have some degree of sociopathy, even if it is just a little. It is just a marker or indicator and doesn't mean that someone is a sociopath. However, it does indicate they are more likely to be one (at least if you believe the studies.)


My personal opinion is that it is among the most despicable things, and I'll never be a fan of Vick's again if this looks likely to be true.

[JPhillips]

Interesting. Thanks EF27.

[TazFTW]

Huh?


Packers | B. Jackson unable to attend team's minicamp
Thu, 17 May 2007 21:35:45 -0700
<A href="http://www.kffl.com/link/125">John Clayton, of ESPN.com (http://www.kffl.com/link/9), reports Green Bay Packers (http://www.kffl.com/team/17/nfl) RB Brandon Jackson (http://www.kffl.com/player/16207/nfl) will not be able to take part in the team's minicamp this weekend. He received an invitation to participate in this weekend's Premiere event in Los Angeles, where top selected skill players attend photo card shoots, contend for endorsements and receive television exposure. The NFLPA (http://www.kffl.com/link/194) and the Management Council ruled this week that Jackson must attend the Premiere event and not the minicamp. "I'm being held out against my will. I was told I either have to go home and do nothing or go to Los Angeles. They are locking me out against my will," Jackson said. Jackson used his agent, Gary Wichard, to notify the league of the conflict and informed officials he wanted to attend the minicamp. He did show up this week to get started on training and learning the playbook. "I feel like I need to learn the plays so I can come back and try to win a starting job in the fall. I've only had four or five practices with the veterans, but my agent told me the collective bargaining agreement couldn't let me go to the minicamp," Jackson added.

[stevew]

Yeah, I saw that bit about Jackson, and it really made no sense.

[JeeberD]

Finally, some GOOD news out of the NFL. At least one player has his priorities straight...

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/4815188.html

30 becomes someone's lucky number thanks to Texans' Green, Simmons

By MEGAN MANFULL
Copyright 2007 Houston Chronicle

Texans running back Ahman Green asked around the locker room before he even approached Jason Simmons. Green wanted to know if he was wasting his time.

He didn't know Simmons well, and, even more importantly, he didn't know how attached the Texans safety was to the No. 30.

"Everybody was like, 'He's a good guy. He's going to work something out with you someway or somehow,' " Green said.

Green, who started wearing 30 even before attending Nebraska, became optimistic but still wasn't sure what it might cost him. The tradition around the NFL is that if you want someone else's number, you pay them.

When Green finally asked, Simmons shocked him.

"He said, 'Sure, but I'd like you to make a down payment on a single-parent home through a foundation or charity,' " Green said. "I was like, 'Yeah I'm all on board. That's easy. Tell me where to write the check to.'

"So instead of putting the money into his pocket, he's going to put in into somebody else's home and help them get their life started."

Simmons had no personal connection to the number 30. He wore 23 for four seasons with the Pittsburgh Steelers. When he arrived in Houston as a free agent before the 2002 season, they handed him 30.

Now, he will wear No. 22.

"It was the first number I saw," Simmons said of 22. "I don't care. Just put me on the field, and I'll play with any number."

No. 30 does mean something to Simmons now, and he also knows it will soon mean something to a worthy family in the community.

Simmons always found it a little ridiculous that players pay each other for certain numbers. But now, he is excited about how that old NFL tradition will be put toward a good cause.

"It's kind of tough for me to take money from another guy," Simmons said. "I don't need that. We'll go out and help the community, because this city has stuck by us. If we can go out and show that we're with the community and we appreciate all that they've done, I think it's a good thing."


Attention will help

Simmons has worked with various charities during his 10-year career, but it's usually been done with little fanfare. This time it's going to be different. Green was the first to speak out about their plans, but Simmons doesn't mind the attention.

They will reveal more details once they finalize their plans.

"It's not about getting credit for it," Simmons said. "But the way I look at it now is that I can get more people involved. It's time now to broaden my horizons, and if I can follow the same game plan, we can help more people out instead of just one person."


'Good role models'

It's that type of collaboration between Green and Simmons that coach Gary Kubiak values. He wants to build the team around youth but puts value on players who set positive examples on and off the field.

"When Ahman Green walks on this football field, it's instant respect because of the way he has played and stuff," Kubiak said. "But the guys we have on this team that are up in years, so to speak, are classy guys. And that's what we want, because we have such a young group that they have to have good role models every day, and I think we have that right now."

[Logan]

Sweet, awesome job.

This should be cross-posted with the Braylon Edwards thread.

[Eaglesfan27]

Very cool. Thanks for posting Jeeber. Simmons immediately vaults to my list of players that I'll root for.

[SunDevil]

very cool. Maybe this happens all the time or not that often, but it is always good to hear about it.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

KC media outlets reporting that the Dolphins corporate jet is on the ground here in KC. Sounds like the deal for Trent Green may finally be done.

[jeff061]

Seau resigns with the Pats. He helped out much more on the field than I was expecting last year, so it's nice to have him back.

[Ksyrup]

Oops! Wanna Get Away?



Steelers employee e-mails porn to NFL (http://www.fannation.com/truth_and_rumors/view/4234)

Posted: Wednesday May 23, 2007 06:15AM ET

The Steelers (http://www.fannation.com/tags/show_tag/23) confirmed yesterday that one of their employees sent an "inappropriate e-mail" message from the club office to "unintended recipients" last week, violating club and NFL policy. ProFootballTalk.com first reported that Steelers (http://www.fannation.com/tags/show_tag/23) line coach Larry Zierlein inadvertently forwarded an e-mail he received from Doug Whaley, the Steelers (http://www.fannation.com/tags/show_tag/23)' pro personnel coordinator, to multiple high-level team employees and their secretaries throughout the NFL, including commissioner Roger Goodell.

[MikeVic]

Oops! Wanna Get Away?



Steelers employee e-mails porn to NFL (http://www.fannation.com/truth_and_rumors/view/4234)

Posted: Wednesday May 23, 2007 06:15AM ET

The Steelers (http://www.fannation.com/tags/show_tag/23) confirmed yesterday that one of their employees sent an "inappropriate e-mail" message from the club office to "unintended recipients" last week, violating club and NFL policy. ProFootballTalk.com first reported that Steelers (http://www.fannation.com/tags/show_tag/23) line coach Larry Zierlein inadvertently forwarded an e-mail he received from Doug Whaley, the Steelers (http://www.fannation.com/tags/show_tag/23)' pro personnel coordinator, to multiple high-level team employees and their secretaries throughout the NFL, including commissioner Roger Goodell.

Hahaha. I bet it was just one of those funny chain-letter type of e-mails that contain a humorours sexual pic and/or movie.

[larrymcg421]

KC media outlets reporting that the Dolphins corporate jet is on the ground here in KC. Sounds like the deal for Trent Green may finally be done.

That should be quite a training camp for the Dolphins. They'll have three guys battling for the starting job.

[B & B]

Hahaha. I bet it was just one of those funny chain-letter type of e-mails that contain a humorours sexual pic and/or movie.

Take it a step further. Its probably that Camel Toe music bit set to the Beach Boys thats flying around cyberspace.

[Ksyrup]

No surprise here:

Tank Johnson gets 8 game suspension.

[albionmoonlight]

Saints first round pick WR Robert Meachem is having arthroscopic surgery on his knee. He should be ready to go in time for training camp.

[DaddyTorgo]

Asante Samuel is threatening to not report till Week 10, since he hasn't signed the franchise tender yet.

[Dr. Sak]

Samuel says he feels unappreciated. Just shut the fuck up and play.

[rkmsuf]

don't play then sucka. you ain't all that and the pats will let you rot there I bet.

[stevew]

Samuel is going to probably make at least 3 times his previous 4 years earnings this year. Shut the fuck up and play, and sign your tender before they pull it. Next year he's guaranteed to make about 9.5 million if they refranchise, or he'll become a FA. Play your ass off this year, and it'll take care of itself....you ain't champ Bailey or even Nate Clements yet...close though I suppose.

[Ksyrup]

This feels like Groundhog's Day.

[rkmsuf]

This feels like Groundhog's Day.

Groundhog's Day?

Isn't it just Groundhog Day?

[Malificent]

I understand where he's coming from - he needs to make his money now while he's young and has the leverage. We all know that veterans have no weight in the NFL - that's the way the league works. If he signs the tender, plays, and blows out a knee or something in game 4, he's losing a huge amount of money. $7m+ is definitely a lot of money, but I can't fault him for thinking about future earnings. He and the Patriots don't take it personally, just part of the business of the NFL.

[st.cronin]

I appreciate Samuel.

[gottimd]

Groundhog's Day?

Isn't it just Groundhog Day?

Not the day the Groundhogs revolted against humanity, that is referred to as Groundhog's day.

[Ksyrup]

Let the groundhogs have their fucking day. It's just one day! I give them permission to own that one day.

[rkmsuf]

I can't wait for the "Pats tell Asante Samuel to s*ck it" thread.

[gottimd]

I can't wait for the "Pats tell Asante Samuel to s*ck it" thread.

Sack it? A CB blitz?

[BishopMVP]

Asante does assume some risk there though. If he comes back rusty in Week 10 and looks average/above-average for the remainder of the season, teams might dismiss 2006 as a career year and he'll cost himself some $$$, although not as much as an injury would.

From a team standpoint, it's not the worst thing. The Patriots are good enough to make the playoffs regardless of whether Asante is there the first half, so this lets them develop the Ellis Hobbs, Randall Gay's and Brandon Meriwether's of the team. Then if Asante comes back and gets to full speed by playoff time, they've got depth in case of injury (which recent years showed, and especially with Harrison and Gay back there, it's likely.)

Of course, I'd still love it if we signed him by July 15, or he showed up by Week 1, which still has a decent chance of happening.

[rkmsuf]

I don't want to see the Pats lock up a ton of money on this guy long term. Franchise tag makes all the sense in the world. He had a great year yes but he's looking for elite money probably and the guy just isn't an elite corner.

He's on the wrong team to push for a huge deal at corner. That is not the operating procedure of this staff.

[BishopMVP]

When I say I'd love if we signed him longer-term by July 15, that's if he's coming down near where what we wanted to pay, rather than us paying him close to what he's asking (which won't happen.)

[M GO BLUE!!!]

Well, 'Fins fans, you got your QB... better protect him!

[Groundhog]

Groundhog's Day?

Isn't it just Groundhog Day?

It's Groundhog's day everyday, MoFo! :p

[Vinatieri for Prez]

Two things:

Samuel, sign the tender and buy some FUCKING INSURANCE. Enough already about all these players whining about possible career injuries and I need my money now, and the media constantly buying into this crap. The real reason though is he wants his money now because teams will see after next season that indeed he is good, but no Champ Bailey.

Second, the Pats don't need a defense anyways. Randy Moss, baby. YEAH.

(I'll let you decide which of those two points I actually believe)

[Atocep]

At least his agent isn't Drew Rosenhaus.

[bulletsponge]

Two things:

Samuel, sign the tender and buy some FUCKING INSURANCE. Enough already about all these players whining about possible career injuries and I need my money now, and the media constantly buying into this crap. The real reason though is he wants his money now because teams will see after next season that indeed he is good, but no Champ Bailey.

Second, the Pats don't need a defense anyways. Randy Moss, baby. YEAH.

(I'll let you decide which of those two points I actually believe)


Hmmmm, you love Randy Moss?

[Vinatieri for Prez]

Incorrect sir!

[bhlloy]

Could the Raiders possibly be more of a joke right now? You are coming off one of the worst seasons in league history. Do you work hard in the offseason under your new coach, trying to turn things around for the new season? Fuck no... you go to the NFLPA and cry that the practices are too hard, and get a whole week of minicamp cancelled. Go team!

[k0ruptr]

it's the Raiders. You can't expect anything more.

[JeeberD]

I'm embarrassed that two Miners are part of that organization. At least they were drafted there and didn't have any say in the matter...

[Doug5984]

Yesterday the Saints cut WR/KR Michael "The Beerman" Lewis, and DT/DE Willie Whitehead. Both are veterans that should have a chance to make a roster somewhere else. Lewis was still a good return man last year, but didn't quite have the burst he had a few years ago- and with all the depth at the position there just wasn't room for him on the roster. I like that they cut him this early- it gives him plenty of time to find a team before training camp and hopefully catch on with someone else, he is a good guy so I wish him the best.

Willie Whitehead has never been a starting talent- but has always been a great backup, steps up when needed and is has veteran leadership, and again probably wouldn't have made the final roster with all the young talent on the team- so best to cut him now and give him a chance to catch on with someone else.

[TazFTW]

Rhodes looking good with Raiders...


Raiders | Rhodes suspended four games
Tue, 3 Jul 2007 18:30:02 -0700
Jason Jones, of the Sacramento Bee, reports Oakland Raiders (http://www.kffl.com/team/28/nfl) RB Dominic Rhodes (http://www.kffl.com/player/860/nfl) has been suspended the first four games of the 2007 season for violation of the NFL (http://www.kffl.com/team/77/nfl)'s Substance Abuse policy. He can return to the active roster Oct. 1 and is allowed to practice during training camp while also taking part in preseason games. His suspension begins Aug. 31.

[JonInMiddleGA]

http://apnews.myway.com//article/20070708/D8Q877980.html

Fox Sports Broadcaster Maas Arrested
Jul 8, 1:17 AM (ET)

PEORIA, Ill. (AP) - Former NFL player and Fox Sports broadcaster Bill Maas was charged with drug possession and weapons charges following a roadside safety check.

The 45-year-old Maas and a passenger in his Hummer, Sarah J. Murphy, 27, were arrested late Friday by Illinois State Police. During the stop, police indicated Maas seemed nervous, and he agreed to a search of his vehicle.

Police found a .22-caliber revolver, 5 grams of suspected marijuana, 6 grams of suspected cocaine and 28 pills of Ecstasy. Maas and Murphy were charged with possession of a controlled substance and possession of marijuana. Maas was also booked on a charge of unlawful use of a weapon.

"We didn't recognize him until about 5 p.m. this afternoon," Trooper Tony Halsey told the Journal Star of Peoria on Saturday.

Halsey said he had no idea why Maas and Murphy, both residents of Lee's Summit, Mo., were in the area.

They were taken to the Tazewell County Jail in Illinois and will appear for a bond hearing Sunday before a county circuit court judge.

Maas was drafted from the University of Pittsburgh by the Kansas City Chiefs in 1984, and was the NFL's Defensive Rookie of the Year. He was a two-time All-Pro selection. He played with the Chiefs until 1992 and joined the Green Bay Packers the following year.

Maas joined Fox in 1996. From 1998-01, he served as studio anchor and game analyst for NFL games. Last season he reported games for the network.

[Vinatieri for Prez]

he agreed to a search of his vehicle.


This has been the downfall of countless people. When asked this question, just say NO (if you actually have something). People think they will look innocent by agreeing to a search and will get lucky with the cops not finding anything. Wrong. If the cops have probable cause, they aren't going to bother to ask, they're just going to go searching. If they do ask, it's because they know they don't have probably cause; which was clearly the case here as the guy got stopped for a routine safety check. It's just dumb to say yes -- albeit dumb to have that crap in your car to begin with.

[RedKingGold]

If the cops have probable cause, they aren't going to bother to ask, they're just going to go searching. If they do ask, it's because they know they don't have probably cause; which was clearly the case here as the guy got stopped for a routine safety check.

Um.........no.

If they ask to search your car, that means they intend to search your car whether or not you agree. They've already established probable cause, and the outcome is the same whether or not you consent to the search.

They probably got asked the question in the first place because either the driver or passenger were visibly intoxicated or perhaps they noticed something odd in the backseat of the car after flashing their light inside of it.

[Vinatieri for Prez]

Um.........no.

If they ask to search your car, that means they intend to search your car whether or not you agree. They've already established probable cause, and the outcome is the same whether or not you consent to the search.

They probably got asked the question in the first place because either the driver or passenger were visibly intoxicated or perhaps they noticed something odd in the backseat of the car after flashing their light inside of it.

No, sorry. That is not right. I think you are confusing suspicion with the legal term "probable cause" which is what is legally required to search your car without your permission.

[wade moore]

I love it when you two argue legalize.

[Vinatieri for Prez]

I should add that the reporter who spoke with police wrote: "Police say Maas seemed nervous so they asked to check his car." Acting nervous is not probable cause.

[Vinatieri for Prez]

I love it when you two argue legalize.

It's especially enlightening in the FA thread.

[DeToxRox]

NO! Who's going to do PBP for Lions games this year?

[RedKingGold]

No, sorry. That is not right. I think you are confusing suspicion with the legal term "probable cause" which is what is legally required to search your car without your permission.

The line between reasonable suspicion and probable cause is very, very fine. Under Illinois v. Gates, probable cause is defined as "substantial chance" and does not even have to be more than 1/2.

Note that the story does not note the behavior of the driver of the car before it was pulled over. Nor does the story establish how the driver or passenger appeared (other than being "nervous") after being pulled over. I sincerely doubt that there was not "some" indication that either driver/passenger were impaired or were in the commission of violating a law.

The point is, that probable cause is not very difficult to establish. If the police pull you over and simply see that your eyes are bloodshot, they have probable cause to search the car for drug use (even if you are simply tired or have had a long day).

Thanks for making me pull open my crim law book for the first time in two months. :)

[Vinatieri for Prez]

The line between reasonable suspicion and probable cause is very, very fine. Under Illinois v. Gates, probable cause is defined as "substantial chance" and does not even have to be more than 1/2.

Note that the story does not note the behavior of the driver of the car before it was pulled over. Nor does the story establish how the driver or passenger appeared (other than being "nervous") after being pulled over. I sincerely doubt that there was not "some" indication that either driver/passenger were impaired or were in the commission of violating a law.

The point is, that probable cause is not very difficult to establish. If the police pull you over and simply see that your eyes are bloodshot, they have probable cause to search the car for drug use (even if you are simply tired or have had a long day).

Thanks for making me pull open my crim law book for the first time in two months. :)


The reporter talked to police and they're direct quote was he was "acting nervous." It was a roadside safety check. Clearly, this was not a case of erratic driving or a commission of violating the law, so in this particular instance I don't believe there is any probable cause from what I have heard so far. The police most likely would have stated if anything else suspicious was going on and they didn't.

Now to your broader point. Yes, there is a fine line between probable cause and suspicion. And bloodshot eyes "might" qualify depending on your jurisdiction, especially if coupled with other circumstances. However, none of this weakens my main point. Which is if you have something in your car, you NEVER say yes to a search when asked. There is absolutely nothing to be gained by consenting to the search. Nothing. People mistakenly believe that it makes them appear innocent and will help them, but it doesn't.

[Ksyrup]

It's especially enlightening in the FA thread.

My guess is that Bill Maas will soon be a free agent, so this is on-topic. :)

[Honolulu_Blue]

NO! Who's going to do PBP for Lions games this year?

Ron Pitts?

[RedKingGold]

Now to your broader point. Yes, there is a fine line between probable cause and suspicion. And bloodshot eyes "might" qualify depending on your jurisdiction, especially if coupled with other circumstances. However, none of this weakens my main point. Which is if you have something in your car, you NEVER say yes to a search when asked. There is absolutely nothing to be gained by consenting to the search. Nothing. People mistakenly believe that it makes them appear innocent and will help them, but it doesn't.

So, if a police officer asks to search your car, and you politely say no, the police officer will simply say, "ok" and walk away?

[RedKingGold]

It was a roadside safety check. Clearly, this was not a case of erratic driving or a commission of violating the law, so in this particular instance I don't believe there is any probable cause from what I have heard so far.

Ding, ding.

Also, roadside safety check is very vague. Perhaps it was a DUI Checkpoint, or Insurance checkpoint, or Seat Belt checkpoint.

There's not enough information or clarification in the above article cited to conclude that there was nothing to tip off police about something strange in the car which would satisfy probable cause.

[Clark]

So, if a police officer asks to search your car, and you politely say no, the police officer will simply say, "ok" and walk away?

Yes, if he is following the law he should. It's a running joke among law enforcement about how stupid people are for consenting to a search.

[RedKingGold]

Yes, if he is following the law he should. It's a running joke among law enforcement about how stupid people are for consenting to a search.

Which law is that?

[Vinatieri for Prez]

So, if a police officer asks to search your car, and you politely say no, the police officer will simply say, "ok" and walk away?

Sorry to say, but the answer to your question is often yes. And as I said before, regardless, there is no benefit whatsoever to saying yes. So, just say no, and then see what the cop does. And many times, they will walk away or whatever they find will be inadmissible in court -- so that's a win anyways for the driver.

[Vinatieri for Prez]

Which law is that?

The United States Constitution's prohibition against unlawful search and seizure and the case law that interprets it.

[Vinatieri for Prez]

Also, roadside safety check is very vague. Perhaps it was a DUI Checkpoint, or Insurance checkpoint, or Seat Belt checkpoint.



Yes, you're point being . . . . ? None of these provide probable cause for searching a car because someone is acting nervous. Not wearing a seatbelt, and not having insurance are not probable cause for a vehicle search.

[ISiddiqui]

The United States Constitution's prohibition against unlawful search and seizure and the case law that interprets it.

Yep... In crim law our prof even made it clear that you always have the right to say no to a search if the police officer asks if s/he can. If something is in clear view, or you're already violating a law (aforementioned lack of seat belt or not having insurance), then they'll search regardless of consent if they feel its worth the time/effort.

[JonInMiddleGA]

... or you're already violating a law (aforementioned lack of seat belt or not having insurance), then they'll search regardless of consent if they feel its worth the time/effort.

Yep.

US v Goddard
http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/cgi-bin/getcase.pl?court=11th&navby=case&no=0210962OPN

[Vinatieri for Prez]

Yes and no. In most instances, a search incident to an arrest is allowed -- of the person (one reason is to search for weapons), not necessarily a home or a car. You would still need to get a warrant for the search if the offense did not provide probable cause for a search (like a seatbelt violation). Moreover, the law breaking requires an arrest to even get to the stage that a search is allowable. No seat belts or insurance are misdemeanors, usually without jail time. While under the U.S. Constitution, I believe warrantless arrests for such minor misdemeanors are allowed, they may not be allowed in many jurisdicitions (states) that have chosen to impose more restrictive safeguards through statutes (or state constitutions) limiting warrantless arrests for minor offenses.

So, I submit once again, that to think a cop can go ahead and search your car because you weren't wearing a seatbelt or had insurance is a highly dubious proposition.

And again, regardless, there is still no benefit to consenting to the search.

[wade moore]

And again, regardless, there is still no benefit to consenting to the search.

This is where I'm with Vinatieri. If you know you have something illegal, there is just no benefit to saying "yes". I have absolutely no legal background, and I know that. Even if say 90% of the time the evidence is allowed, you've got that 10%. If you say "yes", that's 100% chance that evidence is allowed. (ok, well, probablly like 99% knowing about some defense attorneys)

[albionmoonlight]

Simple Rule: There is never any benefit to consenting to a search if you know that you have contraban in the area to be searched.

They might very well end up finding the stuff anyway, but there is no reason to make it easier on them.

[st.cronin]

I actually had my car searched once, by the Virginia State Police. I got a little nervous because I had bought the car used, and who knows what might be buried in the trunk - I had visions of a kilo of coke suddenly appearing.

I had gotten pulled over for having a brake light out, I think.

[MikeVic]

I actually had my car searched once, by the Virginia State Police. I got a little nervous because I had bought the car used, and who knows what might be buried in the trunk - I had visions of a kilo of coke suddenly appearing.

I had gotten pulled over for having a brake light out, I think.

Why does it seem like most stories-gone-wrong involve a car being pulled over for a tail light being out...

[wade moore]

Why does it seem like most stories-gone-wrong involve a car being pulled over for a tail light being out in Virginia...

Fixed ;).

[JonInMiddleGA]

from http://radio-info.com

J.T. "The Brick" adds NFL play-by-play – for the Raiders TV coverage – to his day (or evening) job, hosting "Fox GameTime React" for Fox Sports Radio.

[miami_fan]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2938519

Last year, Rod Marinelli moved Cory Redding from defensive end to defensive tackle in the belief he could be one of the best defensive tackles in football.

On Monday, the Lions backed up that belief by making him the highest-paid defensive tackle in football. Redding, the team's franchise player in 2007, agreed to a seven-year, $49 million contract that included $16 million in guarantees, including $13 million in signing bonus and roster guarantees.

Redding will receive a little more than $20 million over the first three years of his contract.

Redding's agreement beat a 4 p.m. Monday deadline for franchise players. Had he not reached an agreement, Redding would have been forced to only accept a one-year deal with no chance of an extension until next season. Under those circumstances, Redding might have held out the entire training camp.

Now, he will be present for the start of camp and will work with Shaun Rogers in what Marinelli believes will be one of the more dominating interior defensive lines in football.

Redding's agent, Kennard McGuire, was unavailable for comment while he worked out the final paperwork to submit to the league before the deadline.

Initially, Redding wanted to hit the free-agent market and leave the team. Marinelli and the organization decided to franchise him and try to talk him into taking a long-term deal. Last Monday, both sides had a major breakthrough in negotiations when the Lions came within $400,000 a year of Redding's demands.

Talks slowed down last Friday and Saturday and the possibility of no long-term deal existed. On Monday morning, the Lions increased their offer and signed him for $7 million a year.

The Redding deal tops the five-year, $33.24 million contract given to Vikings defensive tackle Kevin Williams.

The 6-foot-4, 290-pound Redding was taken in the third round of the 2003 draft and started nine games as a defensive end as a rookie. In the past three years, he had 48 starts. Last year, he had career highs in tackles (47) and sacks (eight).

Senior writer John Clayton covers the NFL for ESPN.com.

[Vinatieri for Prez]

Never even made a pro bowl yet.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Never even made a pro bowl yet.

Yet.

[rkmsuf]

Never even made a pro bowl yet.

he should be ultra motivated now

[Vinatieri for Prez]

Yet.

I usually like to plunk down my 49 million on "already" rather than "yet."

[molson]

Why does it seem like most stories-gone-wrong involve a car being pulled over for a tail light being out...

Because cops usually have good instincts. If they see someone they think is no good, they'll follow him around, looking for a reason to pull him over. The driver will see him, and won't speed, run a stop sign, etc, but the tail light is something they can't control.

(And criminals drive crappy cars).

[Honolulu_Blue]

I usually like to plunk down my 49 million on "already" rather than "yet."

Yes, but you, my friend, are not Matt Millen or William Clay Ford, Sr...

You also don't have a coach who has some strange fetish for defensive tackles.

In the Lions' world view:
Wide Receivers are to offense as defensive tackles are to defense.

[Vinatieri for Prez]

Ah, it all makes sense now.

[JPhillips]

16 million in guarantees isn't bad over seven years. It really doesn't sound like a bad deal given his stats.

[stevew]

Steelers fans can relax. Essentially it's a 5 year deal starting this year, with 15m in guarantees, and 33m total. Basically ends up being a 4 yr/30m extension.

LATROBE, Pa. — The Steelers announced they have signed veteran safety Troy Polamalu to a four-year contract extension. Financial terms of the deal, which keeps him with the team through 2011, were not disclosed.

Polamalu (5-10, 207), who is widely considered the NFL's premiere strong safety, has been named to the past three Pro Bowls, including two straight starts, and was a first-team All-Pro selection in 2005 and second-team All-Pro honoree in 2004.

"Troy Polamalu is a very special football player who has been a key ingredient to our success over the past few seasons," said Steelers President Art Rooney II. "We are excited to know he will be a Steeler for many seasons to come."

Despite battling shoulder and knee injuries for much of 2006, Polamalu finished third on the team last season with 82 tackles after posting a career-best 100 tackles during the 2005 campaign. The Steelers first-round draft pick (16th overall) in the 2003 NFL Draft, Polamalu received the Joe Greene Award, following his rookie season for being the team's top rookie.

For his career, Polamalu has 308 tackles (231 solo), 10 sacks and 10 interceptions.

[MikeVic]

Good. Now how's the Faneca situation coming?

[stevew]

Good. Now how's the Faneca situation coming?

Fuck faneca. His whiny ass will be somewhere else next year.

[rkmsuf]

Bears | Financial details on Tillman deal
Tue, 24 Jul 2007 16:22:02 -0700

Adam Schefter, of the NFL Network, reports the contract signed by Chicago Bears CB Charles Tillman is worth $41.5 million over six years with $18.5 million guaranteed.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------



Haha. Suck it, Asante Samuel.

[spleen1015]

Tarick Glenn only needs one ring, I guess. He retired.

At least this will eliminate 2-3 false starts per game for the Colts.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

I'm guessing Larry Johnson isn't going to be too happy with this latest development. I wonder if the Chiefs put in a secret phone call to make this happen..........


http://www.kansascity.com/sports/story/204520.html

Holmes tells Chiefs he wants to come to camp
By ADAM TEICHER
The Kansas City Star

Priest Holmes hurt his neck during an October 2005 game and hasn’t played or practiced since.Running back Priest Holmes could be returning to play for the Chiefs.

Holmes, who hasn’t played or practiced with the Chiefs in more than a year and a half, told president/general manager Carl Peterson he wanted to rejoin the Chiefs at training camp.

The Chiefs appear to be agreeable to the idea, so it’s possible Holmes could be with the Chiefs on Thursday when they leave for training camp in River Falls, Wis.

Holmes received a neck injury during an October 2005 game against the Chargers in San Diego and hasn’t played or practiced since. But he was one of the league’s premier running backs during the early years of the decade.

He led the NFL in rushing in 2001 and two years later set the NFL record for rushing touchdowns, a mark that has since been broken.

Holmes in October will turn 34, an advanced age for a running back. His age, combined with his recent inactivity, could limit his abilities.

But with the possibility of a Larry Johnson holdout, Holmes’ return could give the Chiefs some leverage and certainly more options at the position.

[MikeVic]

Doesn't it seem odd that he's introduced as Priest Holmes first, and then the next sentence specifies him as "Running back Proest Holmes?"

[rkmsuf]

But with the possibility of a Larry Johnson holdout, Holmes’ return could give the Chiefs some leverage and certainly more options at the position.


what leverage? holmes will be lucky to play at all.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Doesn't it seem odd that he's introduced as Priest Holmes first, and then the next sentence specifies him as "Running back Proest Holmes?"

They likely rushed out the article to be the first one to break the news. Editors be dammed. :)

[flere-imsaho]

Doesn't it seem odd that he's introduced as Priest Holmes first, and then the next sentence specifies him as "Running back Proest Holmes?"

If it's a cut-and-paste from a news website, then the second sentence is probably the caption for a picture.

Edit: Actually, it's the first sentence which is the caption.

[MikeVic]

Haha oh ok. I just clicked the link and saw that. I normally just read the pasted text and it seemed odd to me.

"Yes, the RB Priest Holmes. Not the other one. I just realized that you might have gotten confused."

[Vinatieri for Prez]

Bears | Financial details on Tillman deal
Tue, 24 Jul 2007 16:22:02 -0700

Adam Schefter, of the NFL Network, reports the contract signed by Chicago Bears CB Charles Tillman is worth $41.5 million over six years with $18.5 million guaranteed.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------



Haha. Suck it, Asante Samuel.

Apparently, the deal includes some phoney money -- 8-9 million in the last year and converting 3 million salary this year to a bonus. The deal is more like 5 years for $29 million in new money and about $15 million guaranteed.

I'd be willing to give Asante 35 for 5 with 18 guaranteed. But he won't take it.

[rkmsuf]

Apparently, the deal includes some phoney money -- 8-9 million in the last year and converting 3 million salary this year to a bonus. The deal is more like 5 years for $29 million in new money and about $15 million guaranteed.

I'd be willing to give Asante 35 for 5 with 18 guaranteed. But he won't take it.

thus the haha

guy is a fool for not taking 18 million guranteed up front

[Neuqua]

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/nationworld/wire/sns-ap-fbn-bears-briggs,1,7960235.story?coll=sns-ap-sports-headlines

Briggs and the Bears agreed on a one year deal.

[Eaglesfan27]

Wasn't that the amount of the franchise tag in the first place?

[Vinatieri for Prez]

thus the haha

guy is a fool for not taking 18 million guranteed up front

I don't believe the Pats have offered him that much up front or guaranteed. I'm just saying that is what I would offer him -- 18 guaranteed, maybe not up all front but spread over 2 years.

[Vinatieri for Prez]

Wasn't that the amount of the franchise tag in the first place?

Yes. Any deal had to involve at least the franchise number or higher - but it could be signing bonus instead of just guaranteed salary. So, it is likely for Lance to come to camp, he took most in a signing bonus (so he can blow the money right away instead of waiting each week to do it) AND an agreement not to tag him next year. That is my guess anyway.

[Vinatieri for Prez]

Yup, confirmed. Adam Schefter reports that the Bears will not apply the franchise tag to Briggs if he plays in at least 75 percent of the defensive snaps this season and that he was advanced $1 million of the $7.2 million base salary that becomes fully guaranteed once Briggs signs the tender.

[MrIllini]

Briggs is a joke. I'll be surprised if he puts up more than 60 tackles away from Urlacher for whomever signs him to a $9mm a year contract following this season.

Additionally, I love seeing Angelo make Rosenhaus look like a joke. "Lance thought it was best to be in camp, and in my experience, players who are not in camp do not perform as well." You mean you got worked like TO's publicist, Drew, because someone was willing to call your bluff. Thanks for playing.

[miami_fan]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2951390

By Chris Mortensen
ESPN

St. Louis Rams quarterback Marc Bulger, who skipped a mandatory meeting Thursday when the team reported to training camp, has agreed in principle to a six-year, $62.5 million contract that secures his future in St. Louis beyond 2007.



Bulger's new deal includes $26.5 million in guaranteed money, sources said. He participated in the team's first on-field practice Friday morning after missing Thursday's meeting meeting when the Rams reported to camp.



Bulger had recently suggested he could stage a training camp holdout only to soften the threat, but when he missed the meeting Thursday it raised the specter of a looming camp absence even though Rams coach Scott Linehan described it as "excused ... for personal reasons."



Bulger had one year remaining on a four-year, $19.1 million contract. His agent, Tom Condon, was finalizing contract language on the new deal this morning with Rams general manager Jay Zygmunt.



With a $10.25 million average salary, Bulger's new contract would place him in elite company, just behind Peyton Manning, Carson Palmer, Michael Vick, Tom Brady and Brett Favre as quarterbacks who make $10 million or more on average per year.

Chris Mortensen covers the NFL for ESPN.