So The Superbowl is Over (Unofficial 2007 NFL Draft/Free Agency Thread)

[albionmoonlight]

I totally see the Falcons trading into the top 2 or 3 picks to get Calvin Johnson.

Vick needs a WR; he seems to be as much of a sure thing as Fitzgerald was; and I imagine that picking a local boy can't hurt when you are trying to keep the Georgia Dome sold out.

[miami_fan]

How about free agents? Is there a website that shows potential free agents?

[sachmo71]

How about free agents? Is there a website that shows potential free agents?

http://www.footballsfuture.com/2007/nfl/freeagents.html

[Butter]

I think the FA's available are Nate Clements and 72 other stiffs.

[albionmoonlight]

How about free agents? Is there a website that shows potential free agents?

Good point. Title edited.

[sachmo71]

I think the FA's available are Nate Clements and 72 other stiffs.

Matt Schaub will get starter money somewhere.

[bulletsponge]

woot draft talk!

[cthomer5000]

I think the FA's available are Nate Clements and 72 other stiffs.

Dwight Freeney, who I imagine will be franchised.

[JonInMiddleGA]

I think the FA's available are Nate Clements and 72 other stiffs.

I imagine Dwight Freeney & Cato June will both do rather well in FA.

[Butter]

I was mostly joking with my post, I know that pretty much every time I hear talk about FA this offseason, it's led off with Nate Clements.

[cthomer5000]

I was mostly joking with my post, I know that pretty much every time I hear talk about FA this offseason, it's led off with Nate Clements.

honestly, you're not that far off though. Some positions just look like a total wasteland.

[albionmoonlight]

New Orleans Saints need a cornerback. Right now they have Mike McKinzie, who is a decent, but not great, #1, and a bunch of nickleback level players.

If they could get a solid #1 and move McKinzie to #2, that would be great. More realisticly, if they could get a solid #2, that would be an improvement.

In terms of players that we might lose, our starting right tackle, Jon Stinchcomb, and our starting defensive end, Charles Grant, are both UFAs. We have the money to keep both of them, but I don't know if we are going to spend it. Grant, in particular, may get an offer that he can't refuse if he hits the open market. Defensive ends who can play both the run and the pass well are hard to find.

[albionmoonlight]

Stinchcomb is an interesting prospect. He's been injured since we drafted him. This season, he stayed healthy and played great. So, do you give him a long term deal with a heavy signing bonus based on one year?

Personally, I am a fan of keeping together an offensive line unit to the extent possible, so I would pony up the cash for him. But even I acknowlege that there is a risk there.

[sachmo71]

The Saints have to resign Grant. I don't think they can afford Clemens.

[gottimd]

New Orleans Saints need a cornerback. Right now they have Mike McKinzie, who is a decent, but not great, #1, and a bunch of nickleback level players.

If they could get a solid #1 and move McKinzie to #2, that would be great. More realisticly, if they could get a solid #2, that would be an improvement.

In terms of players that we might lose, our starting right tackle, Jon Stinchcomb, and our starting defensive end, Charles Grant, are both UFAs. We have the money to keep both of them, but I don't know if we are going to spend it. Grant, in particular, may get an offer that he can't refuse if he hits the open market. Defensive ends who can play both the run and the pass well are hard to find.

Agree 1000%

I hope Fred Thomas forgets where New Orleans is and vanishes.:mad: The countless times I spent yelling at the TV in a crowded bar in DC because Fred Thomas was always the first to shake the WR's hand for burning him on the 30+ yard TD angers me still. I hope we keep Grant.

[molson]

Everybody's assuming the Pats won't make a competitive offer to Asante Samuel, which is shame. He'll be a better dollar for dollar value than Deion Branch.

[wade moore]

Ugh...

i'm just looking through this, and I don't know the Colts salary cap situation, but...

Dwight Freeney, Cato June, Rob Morris, Jason David, Nick Harper....

[Arles]

ugly WR/TE list. Packers will probably be looking at WR in the draft.

[Ksyrup]

How good was Dwight Freeney this year? Because last night, he might as well have not even been on the field.

[wade moore]

How good was Dwight Freeney this year? Because last night, he might as well have not even been on the field.

I thought Freeney did a lot of things that don't show up on stat sheets. He hurried Grossman a few times, or at least made him nervous.

It's hard to judge. Freeney only had 26 tackles and 5.5 sacks, but he changes the way an offense plays. He often had double teams whcih sometimes included the TE being forced to stay in (noteably agains the Chiefs in the playoffs Gonzalez was a non-factor because of having to block Freeney, I think Heap to an extent against Baltimore also).

I still think he's one of the best Pass Rushers in the league, even if his stats don't show it.

[RedKingGold]

How good was Dwight Freeney this year? Because last night, he might as well have not even been on the field.

Freeney is overrated, IMO. He only has one move; an upward swim over the left tackle. He'll expose slow/lumbering tackles (i.e. Ogden) but any LT with some speed can totally block him. Also, draws work extremely well against him which was why losing DT Corey Simon was a huge loss for the Colts and the addition of Booger McFarland was so important.

[wade moore]

Freeney is overrated, IMO. He only has one move; an upward swim over the left tackle. He'll expose slow/lumbering tackles (i.e. Ogden) but any LT with some speed can totally block him. Also, draws work extremely well against him which was why losing DT Corey Simon was a huge loss for the Colts and the addition of Booger McFarland was so important.

Man, did you watch many Colts games?

Freeney having one move is so 2002.

[sachmo71]

ugly WR/TE list. Packers will probably be looking at WR in the draft.

Kevin Curtis doesn't rock you socks off? LOL @ Drew Bennett making bank, but he will.

[gottimd]

I think the real question is which one of these players will receive an extremely high value contract from Daniel Snyder.

My bets are on London Fletcher. He fits the bill of being that player in the declining portion of his career that the Skins will offer a $100 Million/16 year deal to.

[rkmsuf]

I want to hear Drew Bennett use the term "make bank".

[albionmoonlight]

Joe Horn is scheduled to make a pretty penny next season.

If he does not agree to restructure and take a pay cut, I could see him hitting the FA market.

There seemed to be some conflict between him and the coaching staff this year, so the odds of him hitting free agency seem pretty good--especially considering what a weak WR market in free agency will do to his value.

He's not a long term solution for anyone, but if we cut him and he goes off with a chip on his shoulder and something to prove, he could be a nice 1-2 year player for some team looking for short term help. I'm thinking that the Falcons or the Packers make a lot of sense.

[rkmsuf]

Joe Horn is scheduled to make a pretty penny next season.

If he does not agree to restructure and take a pay cut, I could see him hitting the FA market.

There seemed to be some conflict between him and the coaching staff this year, so the odds of him hitting free agency seem pretty good--especially considering what a weak WR market in free agency will do to his value.

He's not a long term solution for anyone, but if we cut him and he goes off with a chip on his shoulder and something to prove, he could be a nice 1-2 year player for some team looking for short term help. I'm thinking that the Falcons or the Packers make a lot of sense.

Joe Horn is over. He had a nice run but it would be foolish for anything other than a team on the brink bringing him in as a 2 or 3 for short money.

[gottimd]

Joe Horn is over. He had a nice run but it would be foolish for anything other than a team on the brink bringing him in as a 2 or 3 for short money.

I agree with rkmsuf. Horn is getting up there in age and has about 2 years left in him. He is also a team leader, I'd bet he restructures his contract to stay in New Orleans for the remainder of his career.

What is this conflict you are talking about though? Are you saying that he wasn't actually injured in the latter half of the season, but that he was having issues with team management.

I don't recall hearing anything about that, can you refresh my "remembers".

[albionmoonlight]

I agree with rkmsuf. Horn is getting up there in age and has about 2 years left in him. He is also a team leader, I'd bet he restructures his contract to stay in New Orleans for the remainder of his career.

What is this conflict you are talking about though? Are you saying that he wasn't actually injured in the latter half of the season, but that he was having issues with team management.

I don't recall hearing anything about that, can you refresh my "remembers".

This thread alludes to it http://www.saintsreport.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18044

Basically, there are rumors that the coaching staff thought that he was not taking his injury and rehab seriously.

Re-reading my post, I gave this rumor way more validity than it deserved. Basically, there was talk about Joe and the coaching staff not getting along because of his approach to rehab, but I don't think that anyone confirmed that one way or the other. It might be true, or it might be mere speculation that ended up being seen as true through sheer repetition.

[Daimyo]

Colts will have to franchise Freeney. He is overrated in the sense he was getting praise as the best defensive player in the league last year, but he is still a very good player who really changes opposing team's gameplans. He's just not Seymour level and never will be. His numbers were poor this year, but no way Mathis gets ~10 sacks/season without Freeney on the other side.

I'm not sure what will happen with Cato June. He was a pro-bowler last year, but wasn't good this year. He is really such a system guy and like most of the Colt defenders he will never find a situation as good as what he has in Indy. Usually the Colts refuse to pay anything for their LB (Washington, Petersen, Thornton) and instead just churn young guys. Unfortunately Gardner was a bust and needs to be replaced so letting June go would mean they need to find two LBs in the draft this year (or resign Morris and find one starter). I have a feeling someone will give June big money based on his pro-bowl credentials and the Colts will be unable to bring him back.

[Ksyrup]

Joe Horn is no Randy Moss.

[Logan]

Everybody's assuming the Pats won't make a competitive offer to Asante Samuel, which is shame. He'll be a better dollar for dollar value than Deion Branch.

If they don't franchise him, they're crazy. He should definitely be the #1 CB target, ahead of Clements, and I'll be extremely upset if the Niners choose to look at Clements ahead of an available Samuel.

I heard Clements was a lock to Washington, with Springs leaving.

[Vinatieri for Prez]

If they don't franchise him, they're crazy. He should definitely be the #1 CB target, ahead of Clements, and I'll be extremely upset if the Niners choose to look at Clements ahead of an available Samuel.

I heard Clements was a lock to Washington, with Springs leaving.

I will be extremely pissed if Samuel is not re-signed or franchised. I think they will do either one because I believe of all the positions, BB values CB near the top, unlike WR. But who knows.

Sadly, Samuel's agent stated that the teams were "very close" to agreement after week 7, at which time both sides agreed to wait until season's end. Oops.

[Doug5984]

I think the Saints will franchise Charles Grant...I dont see how you could let a good DE like him just walk. Stinchcomb is different- I think he will want to stay if we make a reasonable offer. I thought he would have been cut before training camp but the coaching staff gave him a chance and he proved he could stay.

Don't forget Hollis Thomas is up for a new contract, as well as Scott Shanle. None of our FA's are big names (except Grant), so I think we will be able to bring most of them back for reasonable money. For once players might want to play in New Orleans because they have a chance to win.

I think Joe Horn is done in New Orleans. He didn't seem happy in the playoffs when he wasn't playing, and I think he should have been playing so there must be more to it than just an injury. What really got me was after the first game he missed someone claimed to have seen him playing golf the morning of the game.

As long as Fred Thomas is not our starting heading into next season I will be happy. I questioned a lot of the things Peyton did last offseason and he proved me completely wrong so I will blindly trust him and the front office this year. (I thought we should have traded down instead of Reggie Bush- I feel stupid)

[MikeVic]

I will be extremely pissed if Samuel is not re-signed or franchised. I think they will do either one because I believe of all the positions, BB values CB near the top, unlike WR. But who knows.

Sadly, Samuel's agent stated that the teams were "very close" to agreement after week 7, at which time both sides agreed to wait until season's end. Oops.

I forget the situation with Ty Law? Was he really declining and asked for too much money? Or was it a Branch-type situation, or...?

[Blade6119]

I forget the situation with Ty Law? Was he really declining and asked for too much money? Or was it a Branch-type situation, or...?

I think the patriots management read their own headlines and now believe they can work magic infinite times with late round picks and continue to win. I think thats why you see these stars they have defect

[dime]

the pats treat their players the way wal-mart treats its employees...and their fans and the media laud them for it.

[cthomer5000]

the pats treat their players the way wal-mart treats its employees...and their fans and the media laud them for it.

Unfortunately being totally heartless in regard to players is certainly the best way to manage a team. You'll be far more successful if you treat them like pieces of a puzzle rather than as actual people.

Sometimes a guy loses it quickly. Strategically it's better to dump him and replace him as quickly as possible, even if upsetting to some group of fans or disruptive to the locker room. You'll win everyone back quickly when they come to realize the replacement is better.

[molson]

the pats treat their players the way wal-mart treats its employees...and their fans and the media laud them for it.

This is a pretty popular line these days, I think the results have been fairly successful, haven't they?

I think the Pats are very good at looking ahead. They let guys like Willie Mcginest go, and everyone complains, but their eye was on locking up Richard Seymore. Now, I think the Pats have much more long term interest in Ty Warren and Vince Wilfork than Deion Branch.

[Vinatieri for Prez]

I forget the situation with Ty Law? Was he really declining and asked for too much money? Or was it a Branch-type situation, or...?

I was ok with that one. Law wanted astronomical money when he was (1) coming off a very serious season ending injury, and (2) beginning his decline due to age. I should add that he never got the money from anybody that he was asking from the Pats. The Jets signed him to a one year deal that ended up being less than the Pats would have given him after everything shook out. It's the exact opposite of Samuel's situation -- young and hitting his prime. Similar to Branch except BB just doesn't value WR like other positions.

[Vinatieri for Prez]

the pats treat their players the way wal-mart treats its employees...and their fans and the media laud them for it.

This is purely false. If you are getting older and declining in skills, then you are not going to break the bank with the Pats and I am fine with that. If you are young, up and coming skill wise and play a valuable position, they willl pay you the money. Just ask Seymour, Brady, Dillon (to some extent 2 season ago), Koppen, Light, etc.

In general, I have no problem with this strategy. It's needed to succeed year in and year out. However, Samuel hits the young, hitting prime, and valuable position categories, and so he should be kept.

[Vinatieri for Prez]

I think the patriots management read their own headlines and now believe they can work magic infinite times with late round picks and continue to win. I think thats why you see these stars they have defect

Yeah, you must be right.:rolleyes: No way did they come within 4 yards and a first down of beating the Colts and then likely then winning the SB against the Bears (if the same team had showed up like yesterday). And yes, if you want to call guys at the end of their careers stars, then you're right. Branch was the one and only exception to that.

[SteveMax58]

I like Robaire Smith-DT & Samuel-CB as a Giants fan.

Too bad the Giants have bad AI & will probably sign Vanderjagt instead. :(

[molson]

Yeah, you must be right.:rolleyes: No way did they come within 4 yards and a first down of beating the Colts and then likely then winning the SB against the Bears (if the same team had showed up like yesterday). And yes, if you want to call guys at the end of their careers stars, then you're right. Branch was the one and only exception to that.

And it isn't brought up much, but Branch has proved (thus far) to be undeserving of the money. Sure, the Pats would have been better with him, but Reche Caldwell actually had a better season, statistically. I'm very happy to see that money tied up elsewhere.

Also, the Pats have traditionally been middle-of-the-pack in the NFL in terms of payroll/room under cap. People talk like they're the Montreal Expos or something.

[Dunleavy]

reportedly (they have the same agent) Favre asked the Packers to enquire about (not long for Oakland) Randy Moss. the Pack have two good Wr's in Driver and Ferugson but having seen Moss from the sideline it's easy to see why (win now) Favre would want him, and at just a 3rd round pick (reportedly as-low-as price) why not if your the packers

my top 10 mock draft (visit the web site)...Russell, Quinn, Thomas, and Johnson will all go in the top 4, after that there's a drop off. Of the top 4 teams i'm paying most attention to detroit, will they draft another quote un-quote franchise QB

1. Oakland QB Jamarcus Russell LSU - The Radiers love size and Russell has it, Oakland needs a new start and Jamarcus is it
2. Detroit OT Joe Thomas Wisconsin - I'm not sure Brady Quinn is a Martz type of QB
3. Cleveland QB Brady Quinn Notre Dame - Brady Quinn is from Ohio, the Browns need a QB
4. Tampa Bay WR Calvin Johnson Georgia Tech - Offensive coach...offense is bad...draft best offensive player
5. Arizona S Reggie Nelson Florida - The Cardinals should be able to trade down a couple slots and still get saftey help
6. Washington DE Gaines Adams Clemson - The Redskins DE unit needs a blue chip addition
7. Minnesota WR Dwayne Jarret USC - Jarret a better complement to last years #1 Williamson then Ginn
8. Houston RB Adrian Peterson Olkahoma - Surley they won't pass on another stud RB
9. Miami DE Jamaal Anderson Arkansas - Jason Taylor to pull a Tiki? Having a talented book in on the otherside will entice him to stick around for a while
10. Atlanta S LaRon Landry LSU - Fills a need but wouldn't surprise me to see new offensive minded head coach draft a play maker to help Vick out

[rkmsuf]

I will be extremely pissed if Samuel is not re-signed or franchised. I think they will do either one because I believe of all the positions, BB values CB near the top, unlike WR. But who knows.

Sadly, Samuel's agent stated that the teams were "very close" to agreement after week 7, at which time both sides agreed to wait until season's end. Oops.

I think you've seen Samuel's last game as a Patriot. Problem with the franchise tag is if they use it on the guy I think his attitude and play suffers. Couple that with an overall philosophy they've shown at the position and it's likely he walks. Of course if the offers don't come in than maybe it's a different story but I think you'll see a team make him a career making type contract offer.

[sachmo71]

Moss is avaliable for a 3rd round pick?

[gottimd]

Moss is avaliable for a 3rd round pick?
If I were a GM, I'd offer a plastic bag full of warm, fresh diarrhea for Moss. I'd rather have an average receiver who won't cost as much who will play his heart out even when the team is way down.

[miami_fan]

I am sure Jamaal Anderson is a wonderful player and if it keeps Jason Taylor away fro Hollywood a little while longer, that is great. With that said, the Dolphins HAVE to address the O-line in both free agency and the draft.

[sachmo71]

If I were a GM, I'd offer a plastic bag full of warm, fresh diarrhea for Moss. I'd rather have an average receiver who won't cost as much who will play his heart out even when the team is way down.

I'm sure most of the NFL gm's would agree with you.

[gottimd]

I'm sure most of the NFL gm's would agree with you.
Show me one that doesn't and I'll send him the bag of diarrhea free of charge!

[sachmo71]

Show me one that doesn't and I'll send him the bag of diarrhea free of charge!

You better have a monster case of the runs...

[miami_fan]

I'm sure most of the NFL gm's would agree with you.

It only takes one. As long as it is not Randy Mueller.

[gottimd]

You better have a monster case of the runs...
Did I ever say it had to be my own?:eek: :D

[wade moore]

If I were a GM, I'd offer a plastic bag full of warm, fresh diarrhea for Moss. I'd rather have an average receiver who won't cost as much who will play his heart out even when the team is way down.

But wait.. what would be the actual cost of Moss to a new team? I imagine much of his money was in bonus?

I disagree with what seems to be the standard thought on Moss. I think, depending on his cap number, that there are several teams that he could be a very valuable addition to.

[gottimd]

But wait.. what would be the actual cost of Moss to a new team? I imagine much of his money was in bonus?

I disagree with what seems to be the standard thought on Moss. I think, depending on his cap number, that there are several teams that he could be a very valuable addition to.

Valuable addition to on paper, yes. But if the team doesn't perform to his standards, he basically takes himself out of the game becoming no more useful than a 7 year old out there.

[wade moore]

Valuable addition to on paper, yes. But if the team doesn't perform to his standards, he basically takes himself out of the game becoming no more useful than a 7 year old out there.

This is what everyone loves to say, and I know it's trendy to dog moss, but I just don't see it personally. He has had some issues, but let's face it, since culpepper left the vikings he hasn't been on a good team.

[rkmsuf]

This is what everyone loves to say, and I know it's trendy to dog moss, but I just don't see it personally. He has had some issues, but let's face it, since culpepper left the vikings he hasn't been on a good team.

there are plenty of guys on bad teams that try

[gottimd]

This is what everyone loves to say, and I know it's trendy to dog moss, but I just don't see it personally. He has had some issues, but let's face it, since culpepper left the vikings he hasn't been on a good team.

Yes, some of his play can be attributable to a poor QB, but to me, that is not an excuse. IMHO, to be considered a great WR, you should be able to perform no matter who is throwing to you. Culpepper isn't that great of a QB, and Moss does do well when he wants to play. Its just the risk factor of giving up alot for him and then he takes himself out of the game? Thats just ridiculous. You are paid to play the game 100%, there really isn't a "Play if you feel like it" clause in the contract.

That is my major issue with Moss. He has the talent, don't get me wrong, I just think that because he has no heart, it lowers his quality as a receiver.

Being near this area, Art Monk was a great receiver. Always put up consistent numbers no matter who the QB was. I'm not saying Randy Moss=Art Monk, but if Randy Moss wants to be considered one of the all time greats and be paid like one of them, he sets the bar high on himself and should play like that regardless of his teams status or QB.

[wade moore]

Yes, some of his play can be attributable to a poor QB, but to me, that is not an excuse. IMHO, to be considered a great WR, you should be able to perform no matter who is throwing to you. Culpepper isn't that great of a QB, and Moss does do well when he wants to play. Its just the risk factor of giving up alot for him and then he takes himself out of the game? Thats just ridiculous. You are paid to play the game 100%, there really isn't a "Play if you feel like it" clause in the contract.

That is my major issue with Moss. He has the talent, don't get me wrong, I just think that because he has no heart, it lowers his quality as a receiver.

Being near this area, Art Monk was a great receiver. Always put up consistent numbers no matter who the QB was. I'm not saying Randy Moss=Art Monk, but if Randy Moss wants to be considered one of the all time greats and be paid like one of them, he sets the bar high on himself and should play like that regardless of his teams status or QB.

Monk never had terrible QB's (ok, maybe Shroeder). Show me another stud WR who put up stud numbers with guys the likes of Aaron Brooks and Andrew Walter - I dare you.

[gottimd]

Monk never had terrible QB's (ok, maybe Shroeder). Show me another stud WR who put up stud numbers with guys the likes of Aaron Brooks and Andrew Walter - I dare you.

Stud numbers and just being able to play somewhat at a decent level because you are a great receiver are two different things. No receiver puts up 9 billion TD's a year. But look at the dramatic shift in his stats. Even with Culpepper, in the later years, when he decided he didn't want to play, his stats started to suffer.

[MikeVic]

Is this an offseason thread too? Steelers C Jeff Hartings retired. :(

[Tyrith]

Moss would certainly be capable of being at least a league average receiver if he decided he was going to actually try hard. To a small degree he'd make his really bad quarterback look slightly better because he'd be catching some badly thrown balls. But he decided to just lollygag around and now he's not a good receiver at all. He certainly has a higher level of performance than what he is at now, regardless of how good his QB is.

[wade moore]

I grew up with Monk and loved him and Clark (to this day Gary Clark is my favorite player of all time), but I think you're romanticizing him a bit. Look at these comparisons, Moss's first season with Oakland where they were terrible, would have been within the top 5 of Monk's career. If Moss plays 16 games ini 2004, it's quite possible he has 1 season without 1000 yards in his whole career. Sorry, this hating on Moss is just not justified when you actually look at the numbers. The only truely bad year he's had was 2006 when, come on, the offense was TERRIBLE on every level.



+--------------------------+-------------------------+
| Rushing | Receiving |
+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+
| Year TM | G | Att Yards Y/A TD | Rec Yards Y/R TD |
+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+
| 1998 (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/1998.htm) min (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/min1998.htm) | 16 (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/games/MossRa00.htm#1998) | 1 4 4.0 0 | 69 1313 19.0 17 |
| 1999 (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/1999.htm) min (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/min1999.htm) | 16 (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/games/MossRa00.htm#1999) | 4 43 10.8 0 | 80 1413 17.7 11 |
| 2000 (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2000.htm) min (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/min2000.htm) | 16 (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/games/MossRa00.htm#2000) | 3 5 1.7 0 | 77 1437 18.7 15 |
| 2001 (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2001.htm) min (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/min2001.htm) | 16 (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/games/MossRa00.htm#2001) | 3 38 12.7 0 | 82 1233 15.0 10 |
| 2002 (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2002.htm) min (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/min2002.htm) | 16 (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/games/MossRa00.htm#2002) | 6 51 8.5 0 | 106 1347 12.7 7 |
| 2003 (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2003.htm) min (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/min2003.htm) | 16 (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/games/MossRa00.htm#2003) | 6 18 3.0 0 | 111 1632 14.7 17 |
| 2004 (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2004.htm) min (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/min2004.htm) | 13 (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/games/MossRa00.htm#2004) | 0 0 0.0 0 | 49 767 15.7 13 |
| 2005 (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2005.htm) oak (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/rai2005.htm) | 16 (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/games/MossRa00.htm#2005) | 0 0 0.0 0 | 60 1005 16.8 8 |
| 2006 (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2006.htm) oak (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/rai2006.htm) | 13 (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/games/MossRa00.htm#2006) | 0 0 0.0 0 | 42 553 13.2 3 |
+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+
| TOTAL | 138 | 23 159 6.9 0 | 676 10700 15.8 101 |
+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+


+--------------------------+-------------------------+
| Rushing | Receiving |
+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+
| Year TM | G | Att Yards Y/A TD | Rec Yards Y/R TD |
+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+
| 1980 (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/1980.htm) was (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/was1980.htm) | 16 | 0 0 0.0 0 | 58 797 13.7 3 |
| 1981 (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/1981.htm) was (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/was1981.htm) | 16 | 1 -5 -5.0 0 | 56 894 16.0 6 |
| 1982 (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/1982.htm) was (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/was1982.htm) | 9 | 7 21 3.0 0 | 35 447 12.8 1 |
| 1983 (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/1983.htm) was (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/was1983.htm) | 12 | 3 -19 -6.3 0 | 47 746 15.9 5 |
| 1984 (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/1984.htm) was (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/was1984.htm) | 16 | 2 18 9.0 0 | 106 1372 12.9 7 |
| 1985 (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/1985.htm) was (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/was1985.htm) | 15 | 7 51 7.3 0 | 91 1226 13.5 2 |
| 1986 (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/1986.htm) was (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/was1986.htm) | 16 | 4 27 6.8 0 | 73 1068 14.6 4 |
| 1987 (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/1987.htm) was (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/was1987.htm) | 9 | 6 63 10.5 0 | 38 483 12.7 6 |
| 1988 (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/1988.htm) was (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/was1988.htm) | 16 | 7 46 6.6 0 | 72 946 13.1 5 |
| 1989 (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/1989.htm) was (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/was1989.htm) | 16 | 3 8 2.7 0 | 86 1186 13.8 8 |
| 1990 (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/1990.htm) was (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/was1990.htm) | 16 | 7 59 8.4 0 | 68 770 11.3 5 |
| 1991 (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/1991.htm) was (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/was1991.htm) | 16 | 9 19 2.1 0 | 71 1049 14.8 8 |
| 1992 (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/1992.htm) was (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/was1992.htm) | 16 | 6 45 7.5 0 | 46 644 14.0 3 |
| 1993 (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/1993.htm) was (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/was1993.htm) | 16 | 1 -1 -1.0 0 | 41 398 9.7 2 |
| 1994 (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/1994.htm) nyj (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/nyj1994.htm) | 16 | 0 0 0.0 0 | 46 581 12.6 3 |
| 1995 (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/1995.htm) phi (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/phi1995.htm) | 3 (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/games/MonkAr00.htm#1995) | 0 0 0.0 0 | 6 114 19.0 0 |
+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+
| TOTAL | 224 | 63 332 5.3 0 | 940 12721 13.5 68 |
+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+

[Bee]

I don't think there's any question that Moss has talent but lacks motivation. The real question IMO is does anyone think they can motivate him to live up to his talent and then can they actually succeed. I would think based on the egos in the NFL, there's quite a few coaches out there that think they can get Moss to be productive again. I think the liklihood of them being successful is much more up in the air.

[rkmsuf]

Monk never had terrible QB's (ok, maybe Shroeder). Show me another stud WR who put up stud numbers with guys the likes of Aaron Brooks and Andrew Walter - I dare you.

Chris Chambers 05 Dolphins? The great trigger man Gus Ferrote at the controls?

[TroyF]

Yeah, you must be right.:rolleyes: No way did they come within 4 yards and a first down of beating the Colts and then likely then winning the SB against the Bears (if the same team had showed up like yesterday). And yes, if you want to call guys at the end of their careers stars, then you're right. Branch was the one and only exception to that.

I'd add the guy in your screen name as a second.

Nobody can successfully argue that the Patriots strategy hasn't worked to this point. I do believe that if they have Branch that they would have won the title this year, but it's hard to argue with a 4 point loss on the road in the AFC title game.

As of now, the Patriots are doing a terrific job of finding fits for their system and it really can't be argued.

[wade moore]

I will also point out that two of Moss's best seasons, 2001 and 2002, The Vikings were 5-11 and 6-10 respectively.

[wade moore]

Chris Chambers 05 Dolphins? The great trigger man Gus Ferrote at the controls?

I think a lot more highly of Frerrote than most people, so this logic might not work with me.

[rkmsuf]

I think a lot more highly of Frerrote than most people, so this logic might not work with me.

well there are plenty of examples of productive receivers with 70ish rating quarterbacks.

[gottimd]

I will also point out that two of Moss's best seasons, 2001 and 2002, The Vikings were 5-11 and 6-10 respectively.

I was just throwing Monk out there for comparison. But the way Moss has shown inconsistency based on his feelings of "I'll play when I feel like it", is just an awful attitude. My point is that Moss doesn't have any heart, or at least shows very little. Would you want a superstar Caliber player on your team who won't play 100% or would you rather have just a decent receiver who will do what it takes to get the job done? That is what Moss lacks. He has the talent and potential, I understand that, but without any heart, it pretty much nullifies that. A team takes a huge risk in signing him, will he play or will he not? I think of someone of his potential and caliber and price, that shouldn't be a question a GM/Coach/teammate has to even think twice about. That is the problem with Moss.

[wade moore]

I was just throwing Monk out there for comparison. But the way Moss has shown inconsistency based on his feelings of "I'll play when I feel like it", is just an awful attitude. My point is that Moss doesn't have any heart, or at least shows very little. Would you want a superstar Caliber player on your team who won't play 100% or would you rather have just a decent receiver who will do what it takes to get the job done? That is what Moss lacks. He has the talent and potential, I understand that, but without any heart, it pretty much nullifies that. A team takes a huge risk in signing him, will he play or will he not? I think of someone of his potential and caliber and price, that shouldn't be a question a GM/Coach/teammate has to even think twice about. That is the problem with Moss.

What I'm saying is this "Moss doesn't try" is mostly trumped up by the media.

The stats just don't back up this theory at all. I would love to have Moss on most teams I root for, just that my two key teams right now need a lot more things before WR (Redskins and Colts).

[sachmo71]

I was just throwing Monk out there for comparison. But the way Moss has shown inconsistency based on his feelings of "I'll play when I feel like it", is just an awful attitude. My point is that Moss doesn't have any heart, or at least shows very little. Would you want a superstar Caliber player on your team who won't play 100% or would you rather have just a decent receiver who will do what it takes to get the job done? That is what Moss lacks. He has the talent and potential, I understand that, but without any heart, it pretty much nullifies that. A team takes a huge risk in signing him, will he play or will he not? I think of someone of his potential and caliber and price, that shouldn't be a question a GM/Coach/teammate has to even think twice about. That is the problem with Moss.

The disconnect is reality. A GM of a contending team, if they had the cap space, would jump at the chance to get Moss. I would argue that all of them would.

[gottimd]

I guess we could go on and on in circles, and everyone is entitled to their opinions.

I think the bottom line is that none of us will be making the decision in regards to Moss:D

I miss football already.

[wade moore]

I guess we could go on and on in circles, and everyone is entitled to their opinions.

I think the bottom line is that none of us will be making the decision in regards to Moss:D

I miss football already.

I think bottom line is, that as sachmo says, most NFL teams would love to have Moss. Now, the price is obviously part of the sticking point, but I still think that there are only a handful of guys that NFL teams would want over Moss.

[stevew]

Is this an offseason thread too? Steelers C Jeff Hartings retired. :(

Well, it was either that, or be released. He was a good one for a 3-4 year stretch in there. Although he totally sucked this year. I'm suprised someone as good as him came from the Lions.

[Vinatieri for Prez]

I think you've seen Samuel's last game as a Patriot. Problem with the franchise tag is if they use it on the guy I think his attitude and play suffers. Couple that with an overall philosophy they've shown at the position and it's likely he walks. Of course if the offers don't come in than maybe it's a different story but I think you'll see a team make him a career making type contract offer.

I agree there is a chance he's gone, but I will still be pissed. As far as the tag, they're not afraid to use it since they franchised Vinatieri twice (three times?) in a row. I'm not so sure Samuel's play would suffer if he was tagged. This is because he would be up for FA again the next season, and if he sucked then his potential dollars would go way down. I've seen other tagged players play well. I think you could see a franchise tag and another year of in-season re-negotiation before he either resigns or is gone.

[rkmsuf]

I agree there is a chance he's gone, but I will still be pissed. As far as the tag, they're not afraid to use it since they franchised Vinatieri twice (three times?) in a row. I'm not so sure Samuel's play would suffer if he was tagged. This is because he would be up for FA again the next season, and if he sucked then his potential dollars would go way down. I've seen other tagged players play well. I think you could see a franchise tag and another year of in-season re-negotiation before he either resigns or is gone.

I consider Vinatieri a different case. I just get the sense with Samuel you are going down the disgruntled/holdout path with a tag.

Him leaving for some reason doesn't upset or concern me that much. Good player but not a Champ Bailey type talent. Ok, who is but that's the dollars you may see.

[Vinatieri for Prez]

Ah, the dreaded holdout. That would throw a monkey wrench into things. This usually ends up with the Patriots getting a 1st rounder in exchange. That would be ok though.

[albionmoonlight]

With the recent increase in cap money through the new CBA, I think that you are going to see a lot of players curious to test the waters. I am sure that Samuel and his agent are looking at how many teams out there have stupid money that they may choose to throw at him.

All it takes is one Dan Snyder out there to make it worth someone's while to test the market.

[st.cronin]

I'd be sad if Samuel left. I think he's become one of the best cbs in the league. I'd rather have him than Rodney Harrison.

[Daimyo]

After the AFC championship, I really hope New England lets him go! :)

[Passacaglia]

After the AFC championship, I really hope New England lets him go! :)

Maybe they can sign Marlin Jackson instead.

[stevew]

Are people expecting Cleveland and Atlanta to switch first round picks(and maybe more), and ATL to send Schaub to cleveland? Cause he's certainly got quite a few votes as Cleve's starter in that new "where is the qb headed thread" game.

[RedKingGold]

Are people expecting Cleveland and Atlanta to switch first round picks(and maybe more), and ATL to send Schaub to cleveland? Cause he's certainly got quite a few votes as Cleve's starter in that new game.

I really don't see Schaub going anywhere this off-season with a new coach unsure of what exactly he has in Vick. Also, a team would be stupid to give up the first or second round Atlanta wants with that pick.

[AgustusM]

If the point of a football team is to produce nice statistics

then I might consider Moss

if the point is to win - I would pass no matter what point in his career you want to give him to me.

football statistics are easily the least important (because they are the most heavily influenced my other factors and the small amount of games makes for such a small sample size) of all sports statistics. Nothing accomplished in football is accomplished by an individual.

I let you pick all the skill position players from any team in the NFL and you let me pick your OL - you will be the worst offense in the league.

[st.cronin]

I can see some team going nuts and sending Atl a 2nd rounder for Schaub. Heck, I could see the Bears doing that. :D

[ISiddiqui]

I can see some team going nuts and sending Atl a 2nd rounder for Schaub. Heck, I could see the Bears doing that. :D

I'd so rather see a Cleveland do so. High 2nd = good :D.

[stevew]

From some other board...might be a PFT snippet though....

The Browns and Texans have progressed beyond preliminary talks about dealing David Carr to the Browns for LB Chaun Thompson and swapping 1st round picks, with the Browns getting a later extra pick. The Texans really want Adrian Peterson and are willing to dump Carr to get him. Apparently those Jake Plummer-to-Houston rumblings are serious too, though this person told me that he wouldn't rule out Byron Leftwich as the Texans QB next year. I'll believe that when I see it though...

[miami_fan]

So now they decide to give up on him?

[albionmoonlight]

So now they decide to give up on him?
2nd year under a new coach. The timing actually makes sense on that level. Kubiak wanted a year to see what he had in Carr. And, if these rumors are true, didn't like what he saw and now wants to rebuild at that position.

[albionmoonlight]

dola--

Though, for the life of me, I wonder if anyone can really know if David Carr sucks or not. I have some idea that if you put Tom Brady or Sage Rosenfels on that offense, the results would look about the same as with David Carr. At some point, you need more than 1 good WR on an offense in order to see how good a quarterback is.

[sachmo71]

From some other board...might be a PFT snippet though....

How are any of those QBs better than Carr? They need to trade for an o-line.

[bulletsponge]

the Texans missed thier opportunity to make me a fan when the passed on VY

[Butter]

I still scratch my head and wonder why the Texans didn't take either Young or Bush. Once in a decade situations on both players, and they said forget it to both and went with Mario Williams... who, even if he pans out is still not going to draw fans or interest. Good move.

[RedKingGold]

I still scratch my head and wonder why the Texans didn't take either Young or Bush. Once in a decade situations on both players, and they said forget it to both and went with Mario Williams... who, even if he pans out is still not going to draw fans or interest. Good move.

It's called overthinking. Similar to when a man, going to the laundromat, finds a check for $500 lying on the ground and $500 in cash. While standing there and thinking about which one to take, he decides to pick up the quarter on the ground because it gives him the easiest way to help pay for the cost of his laundry.

[Fonzie]

It's called overthinking. Similar to when a man, going to the laundromat, finds a check for $500 lying on the ground and $500 in cash. While standing there and thinking about which one to take, he decides to pick up the quarter on the ground because it gives him the easiest way to help pay for the cost of his laundry.

Plus it's nice and shiny.

[sony]

Freeney is overrated, IMO. He only has one move; an upward swim over the left tackle. He'll expose slow/lumbering tackles (i.e. Ogden) but any LT with some speed can totally block him. Also, draws work extremely well against him which was why losing DT Corey Simon was a huge loss for the Colts and the addition of Booger McFarland was so important.

To say Freeney only has `1 move, the upward swim` is pure stupidity:mad: . I'm not even a Colts/D.F. fan but I know NFL football. Watch some of the Colts game next year or perhaps do a YouTube of D.F. Maybe you'll see that he has one of the sickest spin move in the game today...

Of course the draws that MJD and the Jaguars, Tatum Bell and the Broncos ran on him were effective... He was playing pass rush... not run defense.... I'm 99% sure that Tony Dungy or the Defensive Line's coach wanted him to loop and play the QB....

-Sony

[RedKingGold]

To say Freeney only has `1 move, the upward swim` is pure stupidity:mad: . I'm not even a Colts/D.F. fan but I know NFL football. Watch some of the Colts game next year or perhaps do a YouTube of D.F. Maybe you'll see that he has one of the sickest spin move in the game today...

Of course the draws that MJD and the Jaguars, Tatum Bell and the Broncos ran on him were effective... He was playing pass rush... not run defense.... I'm 99% sure that Tony Dungy or the Defensive Line's coach wanted him to loop and play the QB....

-Sony

For future reference; stating an argument then discrediting in the next paragraph is usually not the best way to prove the validity of that argument.

[RedKingGold]

Maybe you'll see that he has one of the sickest spin move in the game today

Dola

Last I checked, Madden is nothing like how the NFL really is and the stature of a player.

D00dz, dat guys got a killerz spin move! (Up, Up, Down, Down, Left, Right, Left, Right, A, B, Select, Start)

[rkmsuf]

Dola

Last I checked, Madden is nothing like how the NFL really is and the stature of a player.

D00dz, dat guys got a killerz spin move! (Up, Up, Down, Down, Left, Right, Left, Right, A, B, Select, Start)

actually to be clear he has a 'sick' spin move. sick meaning good in this case.

[RedKingGold]

Also, nowhere did I say that Freeney "sucked". I simply think that he is a one dimensional power rusher who has little impact against the run (think Charles Haley). That does not mean I think he is not a good player, just not the next coming of Reggie White.

[wade moore]

For future reference; stating an argument then discrediting in the next paragraph is usually not the best way to prove the validity of that argument.

As I said earlier in this thread after you made this absurd statement. The idea that Freeney has just one move is circa 2001. He has broadened his game substantially. This is still his go-to move (and is very effective I might add), but he has a lot larger bag of tricks than just the spin move.

[st.cronin]

My impression of Freeney is that he is nowhere near as effective as he was a couple of years ago. I could be wrong, though.

[RedKingGold]

...but he has a lot larger bag of tricks than just the spin move.

Such as?

[Vinatieri for Prez]

Yeah, I think Freeney has regressed or people know how to play him better. I just see a lot of games where he has little or no impact. Now, I will discredit my comment with the next statement. DEs make their money with the pass rush, so it doesn't help when teams run a lot against the Colts. However . . . Freeney has not improved his run defense to help out there. I'm not sure his green bars are ever going to fill up on run defense.

[wade moore]

Such as?

A power rush, a speed rush just around the outside, the spin move, a move where he leverages low and then quickly comes back high and just goes past them...

I don't know all of the details.. there's only so many moves for a DE... But I know that the spin move is far from his only tool. If you think it is, you should watch some more Colts games.

I will grant you that his run defense is lacking, I'm not supporting him there.

[sony]

Dola

Last I checked, Madden is nothing like how the NFL really is and the stature of a player.

D00dz, dat guys got a killerz spin move! (Up, Up, Down, Down, Left, Right, Left, Right, A, B, Select, Start)

Huh? Who said anything about Madden? OOooookaaaaay.... So you're telling me D.F. is not capable of doing the spin move irl? Only in a a video game called Madden? Good 1... /sarcasm off

Besides I'm talking about you guys hating on D.F. saying he only has 1 move... rofl

[RedKingGold]

Huh? Who said anything about Madden? OOooookaaaaay.... So you're telling me D.F. is not capable of doing the spin move irl? Only in a a video game called Madden? Good 1... /sarcasm off

Besides I'm talking about you guys hating on D.F. saying he only has 1 move... rofl

The words are yours.

[TroyF]

Freeney is much more than just the spin move. He's got a nice bull rush and a quick little dipsy do move that can get him outside fast. (he probably overused that one this year, which hurt in the run game as well as making it easier for QB's to step up in the pocket)

The Colts were run on so much and were in so many close games because fo that, that they didn't get thrown on a lot. I don't think you can spin it, he had a pretty average year. But he's also not a one move guy and hasn't been for quite sometime. He has his warts, but I'd certainly love to have him rushing the passer for my team.

[miami_fan]

dola--

Though, for the life of me, I wonder if anyone can really know if David Carr sucks or not. I have some idea that if you put Tom Brady or Sage Rosenfels on that offense, the results would look about the same as with David Carr. At some point, you need more than 1 good WR on an offense in order to see how good a quarterback is.

This is my point. One year in a new system with no real upgrades in the offensive talent around him is a pretty short commitment. Especially when you gave up on the talent and potential at the QB position in the draft last year. Maybe he was terrible in practice or just unable to pick up on the changes that Kubiak wanted. I don't know. But after givng him an big bonus last year and giving up on the chances to get Bush, Young, Leinart, Cutler etc. in the draft, I think you have to give him one more shot. Upgrade the talent on the offfensive side of the ball this offseason and evaluate him then. If after that, he still has not shown you anything, then you look for a different QB.

[Daimyo]

Freeney sure draws a lot of double and triple teams for a guy with "only one move." Its always awesome when teams think he is overrated and try to play him without help. He usually ends up with 2-3 sacks and a FF in games like that...

This year more often than not teams changed their offense to account for him and it really hurt his stats. As an example re-watch the KC-Indy wildcard game when KC was forced to keep Gonzalez back as a blocker the whole game neutralizing a big part of their offense. Things like that just don't show up in the individual stats, but have a huge impact on games.

Everyone knows Freeney's strength is against the pass. The Colt's run defense (of which he was a part) was so terrible that no one threw on the Colts this year. That is a weakness of his (and why he will never be on the level of a guy like Seymour), but it is one that can be overcome at the team level. In the right system with the right help he can be the most dangerous guy on the field in any given week and that's why he is so valuable.

[RedKingGold]

Everyone knows Freeney's strength is against the pass. The Colt's run defense (of which he was a part) was so terrible that no one threw on the Colts this year. That is a weakness of his (and why he will never be on the level of a guy like Seymour), but it is one that can be overcome at the team level. In the right system with the right help he can be the most dangerous guy on the field in any given week and that's why he is so valuable.

This is pretty much my argument. I am not disputing that Freeney is a great pass rusher. However, a player who is great against the pass and so-so against the run is a "one-dimensional" player. That is its definition.

While I agree Freeney can have a great impact on a football game, it is probably only within that system. Freeney's going to be paid like the highest paid defensive lineman in the league this off-season. Because he is simply not a complete defensive end, he is going to be overpaid, IMO.

Also, (with you being the exception), I get a laugh out of all the people who say, "Freeney's sack total was down because of the Colt's horrible run defense and the team ran against them all the time." Isn't Freeney part of the Colt's horrible run defense? I sincerely doubt you can seperate the two.

[RedKingGold]

A power rush, a speed rush just around the outside, the spin move, a move where he leverages low and then quickly comes back high and just goes past them...

I don't know all of the details.. there's only so many moves for a DE... But I know that the spin move is far from his only tool. If you think it is, you should watch some more Colts games.

I will grant you that his run defense is lacking, I'm not supporting him there.

I think we're arguing about two seperate things and we're in agreement about more than we think.

You agree that Freeney is bad against the run, and I agree that Freeny is good against the pass. Maybe I was a little hasty in my "one-move" definition of Freeney as I honestly have not watched enough game tape to back that assertion.

However, I do stand by my point that he is overrated in the sense that he has little impact against the run and is mainly a Charles Haley type of player who is only concered with getting to the quarterback (not implying that Freeney is as mentally unstable as Haley, just that they have similar talents)

[wade moore]

I think we're arguing about two seperate things and we're in agreement about more than we think.

You agree that Freeney is bad against the run, and I agree that Freeny is good against the pass. Maybe I was a little hasty in my "one-move" definition of Freeney as I honestly have not watched enough game tape to back that assertion.

However, I do stand by my point that he is overrated in the sense that he has little impact against the run and is mainly a Charles Haley type of player who is only concered with getting to the quarterback (not implying that Freeney is as mentally unstable as Haley, just that they have similar talents)

I agree for the most part. I think he's not as bad at the run as many think, but he's certainly not very good either.

I was merely disputing the idea that he had the spin and that's it. If you say he has the pass rush and that's it, fine, i'm ok with that. He has a pass rush that includes a bag of tricks and a run defense that leads a lot to be desired.

And yes, he'll be "overpaid" based on the fact that a premier pass rusher is so hard to find. However, to find guys more valuable than him you're talking about the cream of the crop because he is just that good at rushing the passer imo.. so while he may not be as valuable as a Richard Seymour, you have to pay him because there just aren't many Richard Seymours out there.

[Dr. Sak]

I heard that the Giants are going to release Lavar Arrington

[Logan]

Already done, along with Carlos Emmons and Petitgout.

[st.cronin]

If I were a fan of any team but the Colts and Patriots I'd be thrilled to have David Carr.

[Daimyo]

Holy shit! Chargers fire Schottenheimer!

http://www.chargers.com/news/press-releases/press-release-20070212.php

[Vinatieri for Prez]

Hmmm, Lavar Arrington to the Patriots? I can't decide whether I like that idea or not. We need young and fast, but not undisciplined. As I see it, right now the Pats are looking at Lance Briggs, Adalius Thomas, Donnie Edwards, and Carlos Polk for some type of FA LB help. Man, we need some young LBs.

[st.cronin]

Man, we need some young LBs.

no joke

[st.cronin]

dola

Also the Pats could use a wr.

[Vinatieri for Prez]

dola

Also the Pats could use a wr.

no joke. unfortunately, there are virtually none in FA. I think we ought to be trading for one - and somebody better than Doug Gabriel.

We did it once before when we desperately needed a RB, and just before the draft, we traded for Cory Dillon. Seeing how we were damn close to trading for Javon Walker last year, I think this is probably going to happen. Not Moss though.

[wade moore]

dola

Also the Pats could use a wr.

I'm shocked this wasn't preceded with:

NEWSFLASH!!!

[albionmoonlight]

Not Moss though.

I know that I've bought too much into the whole media lovefest over Brady and Belichick.

But it seems that if any locker room has the ability to turn Randy Moss into a world class player again--even if just for a couple of seasons--it is the Patriots' locker room, controlled by Brady and Belichick.

I would never actually recommend that a team trade for Moss, but I wonder if maybe it is a chance worth taking for the Patriots. They did it once with Dillon and it worked wonders.

[st.cronin]

I would never actually recommend that a team trade for Moss, but I wonder if maybe it is a chance worth taking for the Patriots. They did it once with Dillon and it worked wonders.

Totally different situation. Moss doesn't make any sense for the Pats.

[albionmoonlight]

Totally different situation. Moss doesn't make any sense for the Pats.

I'll grant you that the Moss and Dillon situations do not have a one-to-one correspondence.

But why doesn't Moss make any sense for the Pats. They need a WR. He's a potentially great WR who made be on a fire-sale trading block. Does this not make sense as a football move?

Now, his attitude is the big question mark, of course, but, as noted above, if you beleive that Brady/Belichick can control his attitude, then I can't see why the Pats would not be interested.

Of course, if you don't beleive that Brady/Belichick can control him, then it makes no sense. And, if I had to put money on it, I would bet that Brady/Belechick can't control him.

Still, if they were to beleive their own press clippings about how they have created a team atmosphere of winning that transecends mere sports and begins to approach the aethereal plane . . . I could see it happening.

[st.cronin]

I'll grant you that the Moss and Dillon situations do not have a one-to-one correspondence.

But why doesn't Moss make any sense for the Pats. They need a WR. He's a potentially great WR who made be on a fire-sale trading block. Does this not make sense as a football move?

Now, his attitude is the big question mark, of course, but, as noted above, if you beleive that Brady/Belichick can control his attitude, then I can't see why the Pats would not be interested.

Of course, if you don't beleive that Brady/Belichick can control him, then it makes no sense. And, if I had to put money on it, I would bet that Brady/Belechick can't control him.

Still, if they were to beleive their own press clippings about how they have created a team atmosphere of winning that transecends mere sports and begins to approach the aethereal plane . . . I could see it happening.

Dillon was not an attitude guy in the same way that Moss is ... Dillon's issue with the Bengals was a contract/playing time dispute. It was a situation where the Pats looked at it, and said "well, we can make him happy." Not that they could control his attitude; that they could meet his demands. You can't do that with Moss and field a winning team.

Moss is a pot-smoking tool. The Pats won't touch him with a 100 foot pole.

[albionmoonlight]

Moss is a pot-smoking tool.

But see, he . . . umm . . .

I mean that it's always possible that he, uhh . . .

Urr . . . even if that's true, you aren't really considering . . . ummm . . .

Ah, fuck it. He's a pot-smoking tool.

Checkmate.

Well played, sir.

[Pumpy Tudors]

To say Freeney only has `1 move, the upward swim` is pure stupidity:mad: . I'm not even a Colts/D.F. fan but I know NFL football.
Well, finally, we have someone who knows NFL football here. So we have IMTG and Huckleberry to cover college football, and we have sony to handle the NFL.

Just as a warning, if any of you assholes on this board try to take over my Arena Football crown, I'll feed you to the VooDoo's mack linebacker.

HOLLA

[st.cronin]

Well, finally, we have someone who knows NFL football here. So we have IMTG and Huckleberry to cover college football, and we have sony to handle the NFL.

Just as a warning, if any of you assholes on this board try to take over my Arena Football crown, I'll feed you to the VooDoo's mack linebacker.

HOLLA

As long as we're signing up, I've got broomball.

[Bee]

As long as we're signing up, I've got broomball.


dibs on that sport they play in the rest of the world where you kick the ball.

[Galaril]

The Titans are likely to get either Samuel or Clements to go with Pacman. They are one of the top teams with Salary cap space and should be willing to spend some on aCB and maybe a MLB like Adalius or a DE but not Freeney.

[Pumpy Tudors]

As long as we're signing up, I've got broomball.
You spicy redhead, you.

[st.cronin]

You spicy redhead, you.

Every good broomball team needs a spicy redhead.

[Huckleberry]

This is my point. One year in a new system with no real upgrades in the offensive talent around him is a pretty short commitment. Especially when you gave up on the talent and potential at the QB position in the draft last year. Maybe he was terrible in practice or just unable to pick up on the changes that Kubiak wanted. I don't know. But after givng him an big bonus last year and giving up on the chances to get Bush, Young, Leinart, Cutler etc. in the draft, I think you have to give him one more shot. Upgrade the talent on the offfensive side of the ball this offseason and evaluate him then. If after that, he still has not shown you anything, then you look for a different QB.

I tended to think the same thing before I went to a Texans game. David Carr plays scared. Who knows, it's probably from playing behind a crap OL for so long. But the bottom line is that the Texans consistently had guys open beyond the line to gain but Carr would always bail out to his dump off. At times it looked to me like he wasn't even going through his progressions before hitting the RB or the 2-yard pattern. It seemed like he made up his mind before the snap where he was going with the ball and the difference between Carr and a guy that throws a lot of picks with that strategy is that Carr always picks the low-risk two yard pass. This kind of play does wonders for a QB's completion percentage but doesn't help his team win games.

[Vinatieri for Prez]

Dillon was not an attitude guy in the same way that Moss is ... Dillon's issue with the Bengals was a contract/playing time dispute. It was a situation where the Pats looked at it, and said "well, we can make him happy." Not that they could control his attitude; that they could meet his demands. You can't do that with Moss and field a winning team.

Moss is a pot-smoking tool. The Pats won't touch him with a 100 foot pole.

Yep, that's the big difference. Dillon played hard on the field. Moss takes plays off and doesn't try hard. I also believe Moss has lost a step. Regardless of his extracurricular stuff, I don't think the Pats are interested in a guy who loafs on the field.

[Vinatieri for Prez]

The Titans are likely to get either Samuel or Clements to go with Pacman. They are one of the top teams with Salary cap space and should be willing to spend some on aCB and maybe a MLB like Adalius or a DE but not Freeney.

I know they may want him, but I am almost positive that Samuel will be franchised.

[Greyroofoo]

Yep, that's the big difference. Dillon played hard on the field. Moss takes plays off and doesn't try hard. I also believe Moss has lost a step. Regardless of his extracurricular stuff, I don't think the Pats are interested in a guy who loafs on the field.

Well you just have to catch moss in a good mood.

[rkmsuf]

I know they may want him, but I am almost positive that Samuel will be franchised.

now how exactly could you be almost positive


ooh, maybe we have a mole

[Vinatieri for Prez]

now how exactly could you be almost positive


ooh, maybe we have a mole

I'm not saying Samuel will ever play for the Patriots again. I'm just saying he will be franchised. There is no way in hell the Patriots will let him walk. They would rather trade him a'la Tebucky Jones a couple of years ago.

[flere-imsaho]

Sorry, I'm probably late to the conversation.... :)

Also, (with you being the exception), I get a laugh out of all the people who say, "Freeney's sack total was down because of the Colt's horrible run defense and the team ran against them all the time." Isn't Freeney part of the Colt's horrible run defense? I sincerely doubt you can seperate the two.

I tend to think that Freeney's sack total wasn't down this year so much as it was inflated in years past. One thing the Colts really did differently this year was run more of a ball-control offense, perhaps to give their defense a bit of a break compared to years past, when they'd score in 2 minutes and hand it back to the defense.

In years past, the Colts would typically build up a big lead and other teams would chase. In this scenario, the Colts' pass rushers could tee off on the opposition's QB, and that's exactly what they did. Not as many opportunities this year.

Anyway, I don't know if that theory's borne out by the evidence, but it's the way I see it.

If I were a fan of any team but the Colts and Patriots I'd be thrilled to have David Carr.

Even the Saints (Brees' non-throwing elbow notwithstanding)?

[Galaril]

I'm not saying Samuel will ever play for the Patriots again. I'm just saying he will be franchised. There is no way in hell the Patriots will let him walk. They would rather trade him a'la Tebucky Jones a couple of years ago.

Sounds like what everyone said about D.Branch and Ty Law who was better and probably is better than Samuel but old.

[JPhillips]

Cronin left off several teams that wouldn't be better with Carr. Bengals, Saints, Chargers, 49ers, Rams at least.

[Honolulu_Blue]

The Lions have given Dre Bly permission to seek a trade. He's in the last year of his contract and is owed a lot of money. He's a pro-bowl corner (thought not really). He's a decent cover guy who has quite a knack for big plays. He's been the best player on the Lions secondary for years, but that's not really saying much.

[DeToxRox]

The Lions have given Dre Bly permission to seek a trade. He's in the last year of his contract and is owed a lot of money. He's a pro-bowl corner (thought not really). He's a decent cover guy who has quite a knack for big plays. He's been the best player on the Lions secondary for years, but that's not really saying much.

I say good riddance. Bly has been good but lets be honest, he gives up as many big plays as hes stopped and his knack for creating turnovers has suffered in the past year. While I shudder to think what we may look like in our secondary next year, it really can't be worse then what its been.

And hey, Daniel Bullocks is legit. So only three more spots to fill!

[TroyF]

If I were a fan of any team but the Colts and Patriots I'd be thrilled to have David Carr.

Ummm. . . what?

The Broncos, Titans and Cardinals all have young QB's of the future and I doubt any of their fans would be thrilled to have Carr over their guys. The Saints have Brees, the Chargers have Rivers, the Rams Bulger, the Eagles McNabb, the Seahawks have Hasselbach. Combined with Brady and Manning, we already have 10 cities who wouldn't be all that thrilled of Carr were their QB.

I have the same impression of Carr Huck does. I think the early years of being beaten to a pulp still impact him. He's always seemed jumpy to me.

[flere-imsaho]

Question is, does Carr go somewhere else as a starter, as a backup, or as an entrant into a fight for a starting place? Depending on the answer, there are definitely different teams who'd be interested (also considering the price).

Anyway, here's a list of NFL teams - if someone's bored, go to town! :D

Philadelphia Eagles
NY Giants
Dallas Cowboys
Washington Redskins
Green Bay Packers
Minnesota Vikings
Detroit Lions
Chicago Bears
Atlanta Falcons
New Orleans Saints
Carolina Panthers
Tampa Bay Buccaneers
Seattle Seahawks
St. Louis Rams
Arizona Cardinals
San Francisco 49ers
New England Patriots
New York Jets
Buffalo Bills
Miami Dolphins
Pittsburgh Steelers
Baltimore Ravens
Cincinnati Bengals
Cleveland Browns
Indianapolis Colts
Jacksonville Jaguars
Houston Texans
Tennessee Titans
San Diego Chargers
Denver Broncos
Kansas City Chiefs
Oakland Raiders

[stevew]

Question is, does Carr go somewhere else as a starter, as a backup, or as an entrant into a fight for a starting place? Depending on the answer, there are definitely different teams who'd be interested (also considering the price).

Anyway, here's a list of NFL teams - if someone's bored, go to town! :D

Philadelphia Eagles-backup
NY Giants-fight, probably backup though
Dallas Cowboys-backup
Washington Redskins-fight
Green Bay Packers-backup
Minnesota Vikings-fight
Detroit Lions-starter
Chicago Bears-fight
Atlanta Falcons-backup
New Orleans Saints-backup
Carolina Panthers-backup
Tampa Bay Buccaneers-starter
Seattle Seahawks-backup
St. Louis Rams-backup
Arizona Cardinals-backup
San Francisco 49ers-backup
New England Patriots-backup
New York Jets-backup
Buffalo Bills-fight
Miami Dolphins-starter/fight..depends on culpeckers knee
Pittsburgh Steelers-backup
Baltimore Ravens-backup
Cincinnati Bengals-backup
Cleveland Browns-starter
Indianapolis Colts-backup
Jacksonville Jaguars-fight
Houston Texans-not sure how to answer
Tennessee Titans-backup
San Diego Chargers-backup
Denver Broncos-backup
Kansas City Chiefs-backup
Oakland Raiders-starter


Yeah, so in actuality, like 3-4 teams would be happy to have him as a starter, and another half dozen or so would give him play for their top job.

[sachmo71]

Tampa Bay Buccaneers-starter


Do you think they are done with Simms?

[st.cronin]

I think only the Patriots and Colts have starters that there are zero question marks about, but I wasn't saying Carr would step into the job at every other team. I said I would be happy to have him on the roster if I were a fan.

[Vinatieri for Prez]

Sounds like what everyone said about D.Branch and Ty Law who was better and probably is better than Samuel but old.

Branch was already under contract and he was holding out. Law was hurt, coming off his lis franc injury where he missed almost the entire season prior, and getting older. The franchise number at that time (with a low salary cap compared to how its ballooned the last 2 seasons) made the franchise not a good idea for Law. Remember, if you franchise him and he signs, it is guaranteed money.

Samuel is young, there is a ton of cap room to accomodate the franchise salary of $7+, and he just came of an incredible season and is healthy. To me this is a no brainer franchise situation (if a long term deal cannot be reached). Then Samuel either signs the tender and plays or he holds out and gets traded. Either way, the Pats get something out of the deal.

[st.cronin]

Ty Law has never been better than Samuel.

[Arles]

It looks like the rumored deal of Moss to Green Bay for Bubba Franks and 3rd is dead in the water. GB GM Ted Thompson isn't sure Moss is the answer at WR.

Here's a new one I heard today:

GB sends KGB to Denver for Tatum Bell.

The Packers are also interested in Nate Clements, Arrington and Adalius Thomas (esp if the KGB deal goes through).

[stevew]

Ty Law has never been better than Samuel.

That's funny.

[Vinatieri for Prez]

Bengals just franchised DE Justin Smith. His franchise number is $8,644,000.


In Pats news, WR Coach Brian Daboll, 31, is going to NY to join Mangini for an unspecified job (probably QB coach).

[JPhillips]

The decision on Smith is a classic case of overpaying because you can't replace the guy. He'll never be a double digit sacker, but he makes a lot of tackles and plays hard every down. He's apparently very good at maintaining his assignment which is a big deal on a defense full of freelancers. He's also a good guy with no hint of outside problems.

I hope they can get a long term deal done so the cap hit is lower, but even with his limitations Smith is the best player the Bengals could get for their RE.

[albionmoonlight]

If Justin Smith is worth the franchise tag, then I wonder what that does to Charles Grant's value? I really wonder if the Saints are going to be able/willing to afford to keep him.

edit--In a weird way, teams overpaying to keep their own free agents off the market may have a snowball effect. If teams know that replacment players will not be out there, then they will be more likely to pay to keep their own players, which means that they will be even less free agents on the market, which makes it even more important to pay to keep the players that you have . . .

[stevew]

I'm suprised they didnt tag Steinbach instead.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Bengals just franchised DE Justin Smith. His franchise number is $8,644,000.

Huh. That's interesting. The Lions are going to have to make a decision regarding Cory Redding. They switched him to defensive tackle mid-way through the season due to injuries and he really played well. The Lions will keep him, most like franchise him, but it will be interesting to see if he's franchised as DE (which has was drafted as and played throughout his career until last year) or DT. The difference in money is significant.

I assume he'll be franchised as DE, though I have no idea how that works or what the rules governing it are.

[Logan]

If Justin Smith is worth the franchise tag, then I wonder what that does to Charles Grant's value? I really wonder if the Saints are going to be able/willing to afford to keep him.

edit--In a weird way, teams overpaying to keep their own free agents off the market may have a snowball effect. If teams know that replacment players will not be out there, then they will be more likely to pay to keep their own players, which means that they will be even less free agents on the market, which makes it even more important to pay to keep the players that you have . . .

There's so much cap room out there, I think nearly every team will end up franchising a player (pretty confident the Niners won't).

[albionmoonlight]

I assume he'll be franchised as DE, though I have no idea how that works or what the rules governing it are.

My story about a guy getting paid to watch football:

I worked for a year for Covington & Burling, the main outside legal counsel for the NFL. The Kansas City Chiefs placed the tag (or its precursor) on the defensive lineman who lined up on the end of their line (totally don't know the guy's name).

The team argued that he was actually a defensive tackle because Derrick Thomas lined up to the outside of this guy and rushed on every play--and this guy was really playing defensive tackle in that scheme.

The player argued that he was a defensive end.

So this guy at my firm got paid to watch every single defensive play that the Chiefs ran the previous season in order to determine what percentage of plays the guy played like a defensive tackle, and what percentage of plays the played like a defensive end.

And I totally forget how it came out. But the general point is that I think that sometimes you just get an arbitrator to determine what position someone plays.

[Honolulu_Blue]

My story about a guy getting paid to watch football:

I worked for a year for Covington & Burling, the main outside legal counsel for the NFL. The Kansas City Chiefs placed the tag (or its precursor) on the defensive lineman who lined up on the end of their line (totally don't know the guy's name).

The team argued that he was actually a defensive tackle because Derrick Thomas lined up to the outside of this guy and rushed on every play--and this guy was really playing defensive tackle in that scheme.

The player argued that he was a defensive end.

So this guy at my firm got paid to watch every single defensive play that the Chiefs ran the previous season in order to determine what percentage of plays the guy played like a defensive tackle, and what percentage of plays the played like a defensive end.

And I totally forget how it came out. But the general point is that I think that sometimes you just get an arbitrator to determine what position someone plays.

Interesting. Good to know!

I actually seriously considered working at Covington and Burling because they were outside counsel for the NFL. After doing a bit of digging, however, I decided that it really didn't seem like a place I wanted to work at. Very stuffy by all accounts.

Still, getting paid to watch every defensive play the Chiefs ran in a year is about 10,000x's more exciting than what I'm doing now.

[MikeVic]

So this guy at my firm got paid to watch every single defensive play that the Chiefs ran the previous season in order to determine what percentage of plays the guy played like a defensive tackle, and what percentage of plays the played like a defensive end.


A full-time job like this would be awesome. A couple weeks ago they showed how the instant replays are handled in the NHL, and it was about three guys sitting in a room watching plays over and over again, and then discussing what the outcome should be. I know I guess it was common sense that this is what is involved with reviewing plays, but it still seemed like an awesome job!

[albionmoonlight]

Interesting. Good to know!

I actually seriously considered working at Covington and Burling because they were outside counsel for the NFL. After doing a bit of digging, however, I decided that it really didn't seem like a place I wanted to work at. Very stuffy by all accounts.

Still, getting paid to watch every defensive play the Chiefs ran in a year is about 10,000x's more exciting than what I'm doing now.

I really liked Covington. I am not a big-city/big-firm guy it turns out, but they were very, very professional. I would recommend them to anyone who knows that they could be happy at a big firm.

That said, the NFL aspect to it is very overrated. That work is, as you would expect, very hard to get. And the vast majority of it has very little to do with football. Helping the Denver Broncos with financing and land use issues with their new stadium isn't really that much different (from the lawyer's perspective) than doing a big real estate deal for any large corporate client.

The "watching Derrick Thomas play" assignment was notable in part because it was so rare.

[Honolulu_Blue]

I really liked Covington. I am not a big-city/big-firm guy it turns out, but they were very, very professional. I would recommend them to anyone who knows that they could be happy at a big firm.

That said, the NFL aspect to it is very overrated. That work is, as you would expect, very hard to get. And the vast majority of it has very little to do with football. Helping the Denver Broncos with financing and land use issues with their new stadium isn't really that much different (from the lawyer's perspective) than doing a big real estate deal for any large corporate client.

The "watching Derrick Thomas play" assignment was notable in part because it was so rare.

Yeah. I could imagine that. Most of the NFL work would likely be quite dull. I would also imagine that the NFL could be a difficult client because, well, they're the NFL. At least that's the approach they seem to take in many other avenues of their business.

That's good to know about Covington. My big DC firm days are well behind me at this point, though the recent pay raises are really, really tempting.

[miami_fan]

The Bears have place the franchise tag on Lance Briggs. $7.206 million

[Vinatieri for Prez]

The Bears have place the franchise tag on Lance Briggs. $7.206 million

First time ever for Chicago.

[Vinatieri for Prez]

As I believed, Pats just franchised Samuel.

[molson]

As I believed, Pats just franchised Samuel.

$7.79 million - high enough that I didn't think it was a done deal, so that's good news.

[jeff061]

They have plenty of cap space this year, it only make sense. And Samuel, at least on the face of it, seems to be taking it in stride. Which I was not sure would happen.

[Vinatieri for Prez]

Freeney also tagged at $8,644,000 by Colts.

[albionmoonlight]

Saints tagged Charles Grant.

[miami_fan]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2771925


INDIANAPOLIS -- Indiana State police arrested Colts running back Dominic Rhodes on suspicion of driving under the influence Tuesday morning, police said.


Rhodes was driving 81 mph in a 55 mph on northbound Interstate 65 in Indianapolis about 3 a.m., said Indiana State Police spokesman Sgt. Dave Bursten.

"It was a normal run of the mill drunk driving arrest," Bursten said.

Colts officials could not immediately be reached for comment.

Indianapolis Metropolitan Police Lt. Doug Scheffel told RTV6 that Rhodes was taken to the adult processing center downtown early Tuesday morning.

Rhodes, who is currently a free agent, came off the bench to rush for 113 yards and a touchdown in the Colts' 29-17 victory over the Bears in Super Bowl XLI. It was Rhodes' first 100-yard game since 2001 and only the sixth of his career.

Information from The Associated Press was used in this report.

[albionmoonlight]

Potential interesting situation with Donte Stallworth and the Eagles (and some as yet unidentified team(s)) at the very beginning of Free Agency.

The Saints traded Stallworth to the Eagles for a 4th rounder. That pick, however, converts to a 3rd rounder if the Eagles re-sign Stallworth to a new deal before the start of Free Agency.

The Eagles and Stallworth have both talked about how they would like to do a longer term deal, so the popular thinking is that the Eagles already have a contract in principle with him and the parties are just waiting until midnight on the start of Free Agency for him to sign it. That would keep the Eagles from having to convert the 4th to a 3rd.

And that, probably, will happen.

The Eagles, are, however, taking a little bit of a risk here. If any team really wants Stallworth, then they are going to call his agent at 12:00.01 on the morning of Free Agency and say something to the effect of "whatever contract you have in principle with the Eagles, we will add 10% to it." I could totally see a Dan Snyder or a Jerry Jones pulling this move on a division rival.

Anyway, it may be much ado about nothing, but thanks to the strange nature of the trade between the Saints and Eagles, a pretty good (not great, but pretty good) wide receiver is going to hit the free agent market for a very brief time this season.

In a year where cap money is flowing like wine down a prom date and no great players are hitting the market, the whole thing might blow up in the Eagles' face.

[Logan]

I know the Niners are supposedly very interested in Stallworth, and the interest was pretty mutual. I say "was" because Stallworth was quoted as saying something along the lines of "Turner is still there as OC, I like that offense." With Norv gone, I think we're out of the running.

This offseason is going to be interesting. If you're a fan of pretty much any team in the NFL (excluding the few teams who have a low level of cap space), you see your team's cap room and think "Wow, we can really do some damage in FA this year." But then you look around and see that damn near every team has a ton of money available this year, which limits what your team can do.

As a result of all the cap room, we're beginning to see almost every team use their franchise tag on someone, with eventual long term deals most likely to be worked out for many players.

Now you have a ton of cap room, across a ton of teams, with probably 25% of the impact players available. Which then results in teams bidding against each other for the second-tier players. Something tells me that it won't take very long before some teams get in a lot of contract trouble with guys they signed this offseason.

[flere-imsaho]

It's amazing how good a receiver can look when Aaron Brooks isn't throwing passes to him. Though I can't explain how Joe Horn managed to look good during the Aaron Brooks era....

[miami_fan]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2771981


The Dallas Cowboys, fresh off their hiring of head coach Wade Phillips as Bill Parcells' replacement, resolved their top free agent priority by reaching agreement on a six-year deal with center Andre Gurode.

Terms on the contract were not immediately available, but it is safe to assume Gurode has become one of the highest-paid centers in the league. The start of free agency is only two weeks away and Gurode and New York Giants center Shaun O'Hara were going to be a hottest free agents at their position. To get Gurode off the market, the Cowboys had to strike the right kind of deal and did just that.

Gurode's agent, Kennard McGuire, was unavailable for comment Tuesday.

Negotiations with the 6-foot-4, 314-pound Gurode began last week and turned hot and heavy during the weekend. The Cowboys wanted to maintain continuity along their offensive line but faced the possibility of losing Gurode at center and Marc Colombo at right tackle. Gurode's backup, Al Johnson, is also a free agent.

The Cowboys drafted Gurode in the second round in 2002 and he's been starting since his rookie season.

Matt Birk of the Vikings is the currently the league's highest-paid center at $4.3 million per year, but the 2007 market should take the price of top centers above $4.5 million and possibly to $5 million annually.

Senior writer John Clayton covers the NFL for ESPN.com.

[Raider_Nation]

Moss is avaliable for a 3rd round pick?

LMFAO we'd be lucky to get a third rounder after the way that bum played last season.
He also dissed our new coach and didn't return his calls.
We should be giving the packers a 3rd rounder to get rid of randy 'You'll never be in the hall of fame/not good enough to clean Jerry rices boots' Moss.....

[stevew]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2771981

I thought Bentley was making an average of 6 million annually? Either it's shoddy reporting(not suprising) or they figure his salary a different way.

[miami_fan]

I thought Bentley was making an average of 6 million annually? Either it's shoddy reporting(not suprising) or they figure his salary a different way.

I am assuming they are looking at the 2007 salary and not the average of the contract. You are right about Bentley's average salary.

[Vinatieri for Prez]

Potential interesting situation with Donte Stallworth and the Eagles (and some as yet unidentified team(s)) at the very beginning of Free Agency.

The Saints traded Stallworth to the Eagles for a 4th rounder. That pick, however, converts to a 3rd rounder if the Eagles re-sign Stallworth to a new deal before the start of Free Agency.

The Eagles and Stallworth have both talked about how they would like to do a longer term deal, so the popular thinking is that the Eagles already have a contract in principle with him and the parties are just waiting until midnight on the start of Free Agency for him to sign it. That would keep the Eagles from having to convert the 4th to a 3rd.

And that, probably, will happen.

The Eagles, are, however, taking a little bit of a risk here. If any team really wants Stallworth, then they are going to call his agent at 12:00.01 on the morning of Free Agency and say something to the effect of "whatever contract you have in principle with the Eagles, we will add 10% to it." I could totally see a Dan Snyder or a Jerry Jones pulling this move on a division rival.

Anyway, it may be much ado about nothing, but thanks to the strange nature of the trade between the Saints and Eagles, a pretty good (not great, but pretty good) wide receiver is going to hit the free agent market for a very brief time this season.

In a year where cap money is flowing like wine down a prom date and no great players are hitting the market, the whole thing might blow up in the Eagles' face.

First, I don't think for a second that every team abides by the no-contact rule until March 1. My guess is Stallworth's agent already has an idea of what's out there. Second, Stallworth's no dummy. I doubt he would have signed anything with the Eagles until after March 1 anyways, regardless of the draft arrangement with New Orleans. He wants to get paid and to not wait (in an offseason devoid of FA WR talent) until after March 1 is stupidity on his part. I have no doubt they have negotiated to see where they stand, but there is no way Stallworth is not testing the market regardless of the New Orleans situation.

[bulletsponge]

LMFAO we'd be lucky to get a third rounder after the way that bum played last season.
He also dissed our new coach and didn't return his calls.
We should be giving the packers a 3rd rounder to get rid of randy 'You'll never be in the hall of fame/not good enough to clean Jerry rices boots' Moss.....

Thanks for giving us a 1st and a good LB for him :p

[Ksyrup]

I'm not sure how I feel about this from Denver's perspective. Peterson is an injury risk and we have a lot of pressing needs.


There have been rumors Denver might send Jake Plummer, Tatum Bell and their first-round pick to Houston for the Texans No. 8 pick in the draft, in the hopes of drafting Adrian Peterson.
-- Rocky Mountain News

[gottimd]

Saints tagged Charles Grant.
:D :D :D :D :D

[wade moore]

I'm not sure how I feel about this from Denver's perspective. Peterson is an injury risk and we have a lot of pressing needs.


There have been rumors Denver might send Jake Plummer, Tatum Bell and their first-round pick to Houston for the Texans No. 8 pick in the draft, in the hopes of drafting Adrian Peterson.
-- Rocky Mountain News

Wouldn't this be pretty agaisnt the grain for Denver?

[RedKingGold]

Wouldn't this be pretty agaisnt the grain for Denver?

Hasn't Denver lost its OC, Running Backs coach, and offensive line coach over the past two years? If so, maybe Shanahan's banking on needing a stud RB to help out his loss in the running game.

[Suburban Rhythm]

Almost makes me feel bad for Cleveland...almost...

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/football/nfl/02/20/bc.fbn.browns.bentley.ap/index.html

Browns center LeCharles Bentley will likely undergo more surgery on a serious knee injury that cost him last season, is jeopardizing another and could end his NFL career.

[Ksyrup]

Wouldn't this be pretty agaisnt the grain for Denver?

Yes and no. Although much has been made of the draft "steals" Shanahan has gotten with RBs (Terrell Davis obviously comes to mind, and Olandis Gary, Mike Anderson, etc.), he's also not been afraid to take a RB high when he doesn't think he's got a good enough RB on the team. Clinton Portis was a relatively high draft choice.

[Butter]

Makes you wonder why Denver goes through RB's like crazy.

[Ksyrup]

Because they're expendable. I think all they want is production, and if they can get it on the cheap, great. If not, they spend a little more cash to get a high draft choice and use him until his price tag exceeds his value. If they pick Peterson and he's great, I could see him becoming Portis Ver. 2 in a few years. It would have been interesting to see what Denver would have done with Davis had injuries not derailed his career. Maybe they would have caved and paid him because of the SBs and how great he was. Apparently Denver didn't think all that much of Portis, despite his production.

[Butter]

RB's are not expendable, unless they suck. Shanahan's ego just leads him to think he'll rack up rushing yards despite the parade of no-names in the backfield, I think. Maybe he's realizing his error at this point. I mean, it's not as if Elway single-handedly won the Super Bowls for him. It was the strength of the running game that got them over the top.

[Ksyrup]

The running game was pretty strong last year, too. I think maybe he wants less of a committee approach and more one guy to handle the load, though. In the years when Davis and Portis weren't the go-to guys, we had one "no name" guy step up and carry the load. That's about the only difference between last year and previous years. He just hasn't found the draft steal who can handle the entire load. But I agree with his general premise - no need to overpay for a RB because good ones are out there.

[Logan]

Aren't Plummer and Bell both on the verge of being cut?

[Ksyrup]

Possibly, but since Kubiak is looking to recreate Denver in Houston, I guess he's willing to pay to get the first crack at them. Maybe Shanahan will throw in a mid-range mountain top to make the deal even more palatable to Kubiak. That way he'll have something Denver to look at when he's not staring out on the field.

[Logan]

Fair point...just saying, I don't think this deal gets anywhere near done with what's been posted.

[duckman]

Wonderful! An offensive coordinator with 2 years of coaching experience! :rolleyes:

IRVING, Texas -- Jason Garrett (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?statsId=2600) finally has a title with the Dallas Cowboys (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/clubhouse?team=dal) nearly a month after being hired to the coaching staff. And it's not a surprise.

Garrett was named the offensive coordinator Tuesday for new coach Wade Phillips, who also gave an extension to assistant head coach Tony Sparano through 2009.

The extension was first reported by ESPN.com's Matt Mosley.

Cowboys owner Jerry Jones hired the 40-year-old Garrett to the coaching staff Jan. 25 after interviewing him for the head coaching vacancy. It had been expected since then that Garrett would be the offensive coordinator, even though his only coaching experience was the last two seasons as quarterbacks coach in Miami.

"We believe that Jason is one of the bright young offensive minds in the NFL," Phillips said. "He has extensive experience in working with some outstanding offensive coaches through his years of professional football, and he is well prepared for this position."

Garrett was the backup to Hall of Fame quarterback Troy Aikman (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?statsId=615) for two Super Bowl titles in Dallas from 1993-99. He later played four seasons with the New York Giants (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/clubhouse?team=nyg) before splitting 2004 between Tampa Bay and Miami. He played in 40 regular season games, and his only nine starts came with the Cowboys.

Sparano, the offensive line coach, shared in play-calling duties for coach Bill Parcells' staff last season. Sparano will continue to coach the offensive line.

"Tony's past performance with the organization and the respect that he has from our players made this an easy decision," Phillips said. "His contract commitment will provide stability for our staff for a long time, and that was also an important factor in this decision."

The Cowboys scored 425 points (26.6 per game) and averaged 361 total yards per game last season. It was their most productive offense since 1995, when they won the last of their five Super Bowl titles.

[Vinatieri for Prez]

Tag deadline is tomorrow and Detroit's Cory Redding got the latest one (at the lesser DT salary).

Ravens LB Adalius Thomas was not franchised yet. Interesting.

Also, there was an interesting tidbit from Adam Schefter on how Atlanta's Patrick Kearney avoided the tag: "Kerney still has two years remaining on his contract, which he will void Feb. 23, one day after the deadline that teams can use their franchise tags. No player under contract can be tagged, meaning Kerney has found a loophole into free agency and will not be tagged the way Indianapolis' Dwight Freeney and Cincinnati's Justin Smith were. Some reports have said the Falcons were considering franchising Kerney, but that is not the case." Very creative.

[RedKingGold]

Smith's agent says talks with Bears have broken downESPN.com news services

Barring what Lovie Smith's agent calls an "unforseen breakthrough," the Chicago Bears coach expects to return for the 2007 season without a new contract.

Frank Bauer, Smith's agent, told ESPN's Chris Mortensen that talks between the team and coach were at a "stalemate."

"We're not close, we're not encouraged and based on where talks have gone recently, Lovie will be a free agent after next season," Bauer said on Wednesday night.

Smith has one year remaining on his original contract. He was the league's lowest-paid coach at $1.35 million in 2006 and will remain No. 32 on the paylist at $1.45 million in '07.

Smith suspended contract talks shortly before the playoffs when he led the Bears to their first Super Bowl appearance since 1985 after a 13-3 regular season. Negotiations picked up shortly after the Bears lost to the Colts in the championship game, but Bauer said there were significant gaps on the contract terms between management and the coach.

"It would take an unforseen breakthrough for this to get done," Bauer said. "And we are being more than reasonable in this market."

Coaches that have taken their teams to the Super Bowl, even in a losing effort, are making at least $5 million per year, such as Carolina's John Fox.

The Ravens just signed Brian Billick to a four-year extension. The deal, with one year left on his current contract, is valued at $28.5 million over the next five years, a league source said.

Chris Mortensen is an NFL analyst for ESPN.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2774459

I *almost* feel bad for Bear's fans.

[Ksyrup]

It would be funny if they brought back Ron Rivera as HC next season. Apparently, despite his recent issues, he remains on good terms with the team president, which pretty much confirms his leaving was a result of Lovie Smith wanting him gone.

[miami_fan]

I know the Bears were burned when they extended Dick Jauron's contract. This is getting ridiculous now.

[albionmoonlight]

The league has to love the fact that one of the two "First Black Coaches to Reach the Super Bowl" is going to end up as the worst paid coach in the league and possibly allowed to reach coaching free agency.

Way to turn a positive PR story on its head in less than a month.

[RedKingGold]

The league has to love the fact that one of the two "First Black Coaches to Reach the Super Bowl" is going to end up as the worst paid coach in the league and possibly allowed to reach coaching free agency.

Way to turn a positive PR story on its head in less than a month.

Well, I think Lovie still has one more year to go on his contract which might be one of the reasons for the stalemate.

However, when your coach (black, white, red, whatever color) takes your team to a Super Bowl, he deserves $5 million a year.

[albionmoonlight]

Charles Grant is unhappy with the Franchise Tag

http://www.nola.com/sports/t-p/index.ssf?/base/sports-29/1172039816203960.xml&coll=1

This makes him just like every player to ever receive the franchise tag.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Charles Grant is unhappy with the Franchise Tag

http://www.nola.com/sports/t-p/index.ssf?/base/sports-29/1172039816203960.xml&coll=1

This makes him just like every player to ever receive the franchise tag.

Agreed. Cory Redding wasn't happy either.

[stevew]

Charles Grant is unhappy with the Franchise Tag

http://www.nola.com/sports/t-p/index.ssf?/base/sports-29/1172039816203960.xml&coll=1

This makes him just like every player to ever receive the franchise tag.

A one year 8.4 million dollar contract is not chump change. What's he expecting, 20 million to sign? He should take out some insurance to cover a career ending injury and roll with it. There's little chance of him getting tagged again, but if he does it will be for like 10 million. 20 million guaranteed over 2 years is not chump change....most of those big contracts end up with the player not seeing the last 3 years anyways.

[flere-imsaho]

Ravens LB Adalius Thomas was not franchised yet. Interesting.

If Thomas hits free agency, I'd have to think he'll be landing the biggest FA contract this year.

[Vinatieri for Prez]

No surprise here, but the Raiders just cut Aaron Brooks to avoid a 5 million roster bonus.

[RedKingGold]

If Thomas hits free agency, I'd have to think he'll be landing the biggest FA contract this year.

And I'd bet it'd be with the 49er's.

[Logan]

And I'd bet it'd be with the 49er's.

Agreed. Word is he wants a $15 million bonus.

[miami_fan]

Thomas is going to be a free agent.

[Vinatieri for Prez]

Yep, Ravens confirmed it. Let the bidding begin. I believe he will sign fast and for huge dough, setting the playing field for the free agency period.

[Vinatieri for Prez]

Seahawks franchise K Josh Brown. That guy was money last season.

[finkenst]

A one year 8.4 million dollar contract is not chump change. What's he expecting, 20 million to sign? He should take out some insurance to cover a career ending injury and roll with it. There's little chance of him getting tagged again, but if he does it will be for like 10 million. 20 million guaranteed over 2 years is not chump change....most of those big contracts end up with the player not seeing the last 3 years anyways.

is it guaranteed 8.4m? Can't be cut? or you get 8.4m if you sign the offer?

i guess this is a difference between us people who will only earn $4-5m over our professional lifetimes and those who earn more than that in half a year...

[Logan]

is it guaranteed 8.4m? Can't be cut? or you get 8.4m if you sign the offer?

i guess this is a difference between us people who will only earn $4-5m over our professional lifetimes and those who earn more than that in half a year...

I think franchise offers are guaranteed. This would prevent a team from designating a player, keeping him away from FA...meanwhile, everyone else gets signed, cap room is filled, and you cut the guy leaving him with nothing and nowhere to go.

Edit: I could also be 110% wrong.

[miami_fan]

Who is more likely to play in the NFL next year? Aaron Brooks or Pacman Jones

[stevew]

I think franchise offers are guaranteed. This would prevent a team from designating a player, keeping him away from FA...meanwhile, everyone else gets signed, cap room is filled, and you cut the guy leaving him with nothing and nowhere to go.

Edit: I could also be 110% wrong.

As soon as the tender is signed/accepted, it becomes guaranteed. Usually, though, the players don't sign it right away, and opt to wait until the last minute to report. And in that meantime, the team can opt to remove the designation. Corey Simon got his pulled at the last possible minute a few years back by the Eagles.

[molson]

Corey Dillon is going to ask for his release from the Patriots, and he's planning on retiring. He was quite the steal for the Pats, but definitly looked slow in the playoffs.

[Vinatieri for Prez]

As soon as the tender is signed/accepted, it becomes guaranteed. Usually, though, the players don't sign it right away, and opt to wait until the last minute to report. And in that meantime, the team can opt to remove the designation. Corey Simon got his pulled at the last possible minute a few years back by the Eagles.

This is correct. Fully guaranteed once it is signed. But they only sign if they intend to report, otherwise the player is in contract breach and subject to fines if they don't report. Walter Jones made a cool 14-15 million in two years and never even had to endure a training camp. Two years in a row he showed up late preseason and signed the tender, happy and ready to go. Of course, he showed up in very good shape.

And some guys are happy to sign, like Charles Woodson did with Oakland. They franchised him hoping to trade him, and he signed right away for a whopper franchise salary number. This put Oakland in a pickle because they weren't really budgeting him for that. He ended up playing the season for them anyways. So, while most don't like the tag, some players are actually ok with it. Also, as we have seen with Nate Clements and Shaun Alexander, they were ok with the tag too as long as the team agreed not to franchise them a second time.

[Eaglesfan27]

Who is more likely to play in the NFL next year? Aaron Brooks or Pacman Jones


My money is on Aaron Brooks.

[st.cronin]

My money is on Aaron Brooks.

ditto

[stevew]

Browns win toss, will pick third
Zac Jackson, Staff Writer
02.23.2007

INDIANAPOLIS -- There was good news for the Browns Friday morning as they won the coin toss with Tampa Bay and will pick third overallin April's NFL Draft.

The teams gathered at 7:45 a.m. to toss the coin. Tampa Bay's representative called heads, and the coin came up tails.

The toss was necessary because both teams finished with identical 4-12 records and identical opponents' winning percentages.

The Browns also won a combine coin flip tiebreaker in 2002 with Atlanta for the 16th overall pick.

Stay tuned to ClevelandBrowns.com throughout the day for more from the combine.

[albionmoonlight]

Browns win toss, will pick third
Zac Jackson, Staff Writer
02.23.2007

INDIANAPOLIS -- There was good news for the Browns Friday morning as they won the coin toss with Tampa Bay and will pick third overallin April's NFL Draft.

The teams gathered at 7:45 a.m. to toss the coin. Tampa Bay's representative called heads, and the coin came up tails.

The toss was necessary because both teams finished with identical 4-12 records and identical opponents' winning percentages.

The Browns also won a combine coin flip tiebreaker in 2002 with Atlanta for the 16th overall pick.

Stay tuned to ClevelandBrowns.com throughout the day for more from the combine.

Of course, they also lost their former #6 overall pick to microfracture surgery:

http://news.cincypost.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070223/SPT0301/702230325/1013/SPT

It really is like the team is cursed or something.

They can't get two pieces of good news in a row.

[stevew]

He's a fucking soldja, microfracture ain't shit when you got tennessee gunning for your legs.

Kellen Winslow at 90% is still the best TE in the league.

[MikeVic]

They can't get two pieces of good news in a row.

Incremental sentence posting led us to this, ladies and genetlemen. :D

[stevew]

PacMan hired Ray Lewis's lawyers. He should be clear sailing from here on out.

[Honolulu_Blue]

PacMan hired Ray Lewis's lawyers. He should be clear sailing from here on out.

I wonder if that firm specializes in defending posse-related crimes. It would be a boutique practice for certain.

[stevew]

I wonder if that firm specializes in defending posse-related crimes. It would be a boutique practice for certain.

I wasn't joking actually.

from aolsportsblog thing...
Pacman Jones has apparently decided that it's time to lawyer up. Although he does not face any charges from a triple shooting that occurred Monday morning at a Las Vegas strip club, he has decided there is no better law firm to have on your side than the firm of Garland, Samuel & Loeb, P.C. of Atlanta.

Never heard of them? Actually you probably have. They're the firm that defended Ray Lewis after he was charged with murder after two men were killed in a fight involving members of Lewis' entourage. Lewis' murder charges were eventually pled down to a misdemeanor charge of obstructing justice that carried no jail time. Now the same firm will be representing Jones if he has to face any more questions from the Las Vegas police.

[Honolulu_Blue]

I wasn't joking actually.

I didn't think you were (though I was). I read the same thing on profootballtalk.com.

[Vinatieri for Prez]

Adam Schefter is reporting that Dwight Freeney has asked for a $30 MILLION signing bonus from the Colts. And an average of $9 million per year for the contract. Obviously, that's a starting position, but good god, that's $3 million less than Peyton's signing bonus just 2 years ago!

[stevew]

Adam Schefter is reporting that Dwight Freeney has asked for a $30 MILLION signing bonus from the Colts. And an average of $9 million per year for the contract. Obviously, that's a starting position, but good god, that's $3 million less than Peyton's signing bonus just 2 years ago!

Wow.

[flere-imsaho]

If he had as many sacks and Manning had TDs, then maybe.

[ISiddiqui]

Adam Schefter is reporting that Dwight Freeney has asked for a $30 MILLION signing bonus from the Colts. And an average of $9 million per year for the contract. Obviously, that's a starting position, but good god, that's $3 million less than Peyton's signing bonus just 2 years ago!

Good lord.

[Kodos]

He's good, but he's not worth anywhere near that kind of money.

[Vinatieri for Prez]

Bills reportedly shopping RB Willis McGahee (in the last year of rookie contract) for trade. Giants show interest. Looks like the Bills anticipate future problems with McGahee and looking to get something for him now.

Corey Dillon reportedly requested his release from Patriots when FA starts. Patriots likely to grant his request. Dillon is said not to want to be a backup and mulling retirement if can't start anywhere. No surprise here. Despite his 13 TDs last season, he looked out of shape and a little disinterested.

[Ksyrup]

I wasn't sure whether to put this in the "are you smarter than a 5th grader?" thread or here, but I guess it belongs here. Keep in mind that this is from an FSU blog, which is why it's a more entertaining read than the subject otherwise deserves, but the general news is still relevant to the draft:


Chris Leak- dumber than a shovel?


For those of you unfamiliar with the yearly cattle call known as the NFL Draft combine, allow me to impart some knowledge before telling you just how dumb former Gator quarterback Chris Leak (http://i.cnn.net/si/2003/writers/stewart_mandel/08/20/leak.insider/leak_150x210.jpg) might actually be.

The Wonderlic test (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wonderlic) is a short exam used to assess a person's problem-solving abilities and general fitness for any number of jobs. Since the 1970s it has been featured prominently at the combine as a quick and easy way to gauge the intelligence of players. It isn't an IQ test or the SAT, and only takes 12 minutes to complete but also can give an indication as to the intellectual horsepower of the 20-something year old young man your football team is going to invest millions of dollars in. Consequently the Wonderlic does carry some weight with some organizations in the NFL. If you would like to convert your Wonderlic score to an IQ estimate, there is a rough equation for this: IQ = 2W + 60, where W is your Wonderlic score. Seems simple enough right? For perspective, the average high school student scores a 27 on the Wonderlic, while most NFL QB prospects rack up a 24.

Now that you're an expert on the intricacies of intelligence testing among the verbose and gifted young men at the NFL Draft combine, let's turn to the subject at hand: one Chris Leak, quarterback, University of Florida. You may remember him as the hero of the Gators' run to the national championship, when he wasn't dodging hate mail from Bull Gators about not being good enough to hold Tim Tebow's garter belt. Chris' time in blue and orange is over for now (ruling out any possible stays in the correctional systems) and like so many young Gators he's trying to escape the sucking vortex of Gainesville as rapidly as possible. In order to do so he's working out for NFL teams in preparation for the NFL Draft. Good for him. There is only one problem with Chris' pro football ambition: he might be too dumb to distinguish a football from his former offensive coordinator, Dan Mullen's head. (http://www.gatorzone.com/football/images/coaches2/mullen.jpg) (which is large and oddly shaped, apropos of nothing) It seems that Leak had a rough time when he tangled with the feared Wonderlic test at the combine over the weekend. He may, in fact, have been talked out of completing the test by his pencil. Whatever the case, when the carnage was done, Chris left plenty to be desired in the testing department.

He scored an 8. (http://www.everydayshouldbesaturday.com/?p=3160) Substantiated here (http://loserwithsocks.wordpress.com/2007/02/25/chris-leak-racks-up-an-8-on-the-wonderlic-calgary-or-bust-bitches/). And here (http://thewizardofodds.blogspot.com/2007/02/site-says-leak-scored-8-on-wonderlic.html). 8. Most Gators have more pairs of jean shorts (http://www.blogcadre.com/files/images/rednecks.preview.jpg) than that, and at least as many John Deere hats.

That's right, his uniform number is higher than his Wonderlic score. Congratulations son, you are just barely smart enough to be legally eligible for capital punishment. According to our rough formula, you have an IQ of 76. Now, I know this doesn't mean that Chris won't be a successful NFL quarterback, (his lack of pocket presence, nightmares about pass rushers, bed-wetting and diminutive size should hurt him more than being unable to answer simple test questions) but I'm concerned.
Does this mean that UF is not the bastion of higher education we've been led to believe it is? Could it be that Gator athletes such as Joakim Noah (http://www.themightymjd.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/03/noahdress.jpg) and Marcus Thomas (http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/college/orl-thomas2507feb25,0,2146772.story?coll=tf-main-sports) are in fact the true intelligentsia around Gainesville?

They had such high hopes for you Chris, but perhaps Brock Berlin and Doug Johnson will save a seat for you in the Pantheon of Forgettable Gator Quarterbacks. Or, maybe one day you'll just wander into a greyhound track and see if they'll let you race alongside some intellectual peers. Whatever the case, I miss you already Chris. Tebow's vacant gaze (http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:EgsLgzXmvPSTmM:http://img499.imageshack.us/img499/1285/tt63ou.jpg) has nothing on your smiley face that seems to say "I can't figure out how they get the peanut butter into the jar." (http://www.decaturdaily.com/decaturdaily/sports/060822/sec1.jpg)

[cthomer5000]

dumb question, did Leak leave school early? Did he have another season of eligibilit? If not, these last 4 years absolutely flew by.

[Ksyrup]

No, he was a senior.

[Suburban Rhythm]

Steelers sign DE Aaron Smith to a 4 year extension. He was entering the final year of his deal.

No word on any salary or bonus numbers yet.

Of interesting note though, is apparently the coaching staff feels Smith (6'5", 300 lbs) can play the under tackle position, if/when Mike Tomlin phases out the 3-4 set, and moves the Steelers into a 4-3.

[Vinatieri for Prez]

Some reports say Smith got 5 years/25 million. Not sure about the bonus. Huge deal for him.

[stevew]

Smith takes another reasonable contract, which is nice to see. Now it's time to shitcan Porter and move onward.

[Vinatieri for Prez]

Ok, this is more accurate information on the Smith contract:

Defensive end Aaron Smith, who was entering the last year of his contract, has signed a four-year extension with Pittsburgh.

The deal, which runs through the 2011 season, is for roughly $25 million and rewrites the final year the 31-year-old Smith's current contract, under which he was due a $1 million roster bonus and a salary of $3.5 million.

The new deal is worth about $12 million between now and next season, including a signing bonus.

[QuikSand]

So, a decent guess might be that Smith's new contract looks something like:

Bonus 6.0
2007 Salary 2.0
2008 Salary 2.0
2009 Salary 4.0
2010 Salary 4.0
2011 Salary 7.0

(to simplify a little and put this into FOF terms, ignoring things like reachable incentives, etc.)

[stevew]

I believe the signing bonus is for nearly 8 million. Essentially they "cap out" his whole entire contract for this year, and then add a 4 year/20 million deal with a 4 million bonus on top of it. I think I can live with it.

[stevew]

dola-

Now it's time to try to work out something with Faneca and Polamalu. Even if they end up paying Polamalu every dollar that Ed Reed got, I can deal with it. He's just that important to the defense. Now Faneca, I would hope will take similar money to Smith, but I don't think he's as much of a given to resign for cheap. A lot will depend on what other interior linemen get this offseason, basically he's like 8 months older than hutchinson, and Hutch got that huge deal last offseason.

[Suburban Rhythm]

dola-

Now it's time to try to work out something with Faneca and Polamalu. Even if they end up paying Polamalu every dollar that Ed Reed got, I can deal with it. He's just that important to the defense. Now Faneca, I would hope will take similar money to Smith, but I don't think he's as much of a given to resign for cheap. A lot will depend on what other interior linemen get this offseason, basically he's like 8 months older than hutchinson, and Hutch got that huge deal last offseason.

There is a weekly chat on the Post Gazette website--normally with the editor (Jerry Micco) but this week "guest hosted" by good old Bob Smizik. He fielded my question about those 3 gettings re-signed.

I questioned like you, does Smith's signing preclude them from signing Faneca. He feels all 3 (including Troy) will be given extensions. Take that for what it is worth.

My feeling is that doesn follow the "Steeler Way", but he disagreed saying they will not overpay to keep the guys, but will go after these 3 because they are important to the team.

[JPhillips]

The Bengals are in a similar predicament with Steinbach and they have chosen to let him walk. He's younger than Faneca, but only has two Pro-Bowl alternates. Bengals.com is expecting a 5 to 6 mil per year contract for Steinbach with a large signing bonus. If Steinbach's worth that much, Faneca should really break the bank.

Which brings up the question, how much is an interior lineman worth? The best are getting nearly the same as the top tackles and I don't think they're worth as much.

[albionmoonlight]

but he disagreed saying they will not overpay to keep the guys, but will go after these 3 because they are important to the team.

The problem is that any player who hits the open market will get overpaid this offseason. Lots of unexpected cap room and very few marquee free agents hitting the market means that a lot of second-tier guys will get paid like first tier guys.

And, when first tier guys like Polamalu and Faneca see that, they will likely adjust their extension demands accordingly.

Every team is going to have to deal with the increase in money, and eventually things will seem normal again once we are all used to dealing with the larger numbers. After all, player salaries only really matter as a percentage of the cap anyway.

But, I could see a team like the Steelers, which has always practiced fiscal caution, suffering some short term player defections while teams and agents try to learn the new math.

[Butter]

The Bengals are in a similar predicament with Steinbach and they have chosen to let him walk. He's younger than Faneca, but only has two Pro-Bowl alternates. Bengals.com is expecting a 5 to 6 mil per year contract for Steinbach with a large signing bonus. If Steinbach's worth that much, Faneca should really break the bank.

I think the Bengals would be just as good off with Whitworth or Andrews, and then let the money be used next year with a better crop of defensive FA's. Or something like that. Steinbach is a very good guard, but it seems to me that it is a lot easier to find a good guard than a good tackle.

[MikeVic]

Jamal Lewis waived by the Ravens:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2783192

Where do you think he'll end up?