Interesting article on NBA all star weekend

[Lathum]

http://sports.aol.com/whitlock/_a/mayhem-main-event-at-nba-all-star/20070220103009990001

It become obvious the reporter has an agenda towards the end of the article but the fact this article was even published is really bad for the NBA. I'm not sure how much is accurate but if half of it is that isn't a good sign for the NBA.

[Logan]

These issues were brought up during Simmons' (long) column yesterday.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/070220

[Ksyrup]

Did Jason Whitlock get canned at ESPN.com, did he leave for a "better opportunity," or is he a "roving reporter" now? Man, that guy's ESPN.com articles sucked eggs.

[Ksyrup]

After reading that article, two thoughts came to mind - (1) I hate to admit it, but this is probably one of the reasons I'm no longer a basketball fan. Not just an NBA fan, but a basketball fan. I didn't intend it and I didn't make the conscious decision, but I can't help but believe the transformation of the game has mirrored the off-court issues; and (2) if Whitlock was white, he'd probably be getting a ton of shit for equating this event to Freaknik.

[KevinNU7]

All-Star Weekend can no longer remain the Woodstock for parolees, wannabe rap artists and baby's mamas on tax-refund vacations.,

[Atocep]

Did Jason Whitlock get canned at ESPN.com, did he leave for a "better opportunity," or is he a "roving reporter" now? Man, that guy's ESPN.com articles sucked eggs.


I believe Whitlock had a feud with Scoop Jackson and also felt he wasn't free to speak his mind at ESPN. He's now a sports writer for AOL.

Thats a 'promotion' only Ron Rivera could appreciate.

[Ksyrup]

Too bad he couldn't have coaxed Steven A Smith and Stuart Scott into a Resevoir Dogs-type end to the feud.

[Young Drachma]

The only way you're going to rid the NBA of that element is to somehow convince a whole lot of kids to start playing golf.

[Crapshoot]

After reading that article, two thoughts came to mind - (1) I hate to admit it, but this is probably one of the reasons I'm no longer a basketball fan. Not just an NBA fan, but a basketball fan. I didn't intend it and I didn't make the conscious decision, but I can't help but believe the transformation of the game has mirrored the off-court issues; and (2) if Whitlock was white, he'd probably be getting a ton of shit for equating this event to Freaknik.

Without pushing this too far, aren't you effectively saying the game the associated culture is "too black" for you now? (correct me if I'm off on this) I mean, I'm no fan of hip-hop per se, but its a part of American culture now. My impression is that there's an older generation (I'm not sure how old you are) of folk who are increasingly uncomfortable with some of the cultural changes around them.

And before this escalates, I just want to be clear I'm not calling you a racist or anything like that here.

[st.cronin]

Without pushing this too far, aren't you effectively saying the game the associated culture is "too black" for you now? (correct me if I'm off on this) I mean, I'm no fan of hip-hop per se, but its a part of American culture now. My impression is that there's an older generation (I'm not sure how old you are) of folk who are increasingly uncomfortable with some of the cultural changes around them.

And before this escalates, I just want to be clear I'm not calling you a racist or anything like that here.

I took his point to be that the NBA is no longer a good product, and that the off-the-court stuff is like an allegory for why the on-the-court is no longer interesting.

That's how I would put it, anyway.

[Ksyrup]

Without pushing this too far, aren't you effectively saying the game the associated culture is "too black" for you now? (correct me if I'm off on this) I mean, I'm no fan of hip-hop per se, but its a part of American culture now. My impression is that there's an older generation (I'm not sure how old you are) of folk who are increasingly uncomfortable with some of the cultural changes around them.

And before this escalates, I just want to be clear I'm not calling you a racist or anything like that here.

I don't think it necessarily has to equate to a racial element, but yes, I think the game of basketball has moved too far from what I appreciate and am comfortable with for me to enjoy it anymore. But I see the unfortunate elements of the culture surrounding the game to have affected the game itself, which is my greater concern. Frankly, I don't think I'd have even noticed cornrows if David Stern hadn't pointed them out. But I certainly have been aware of the individualism, the trash talking, etc., for years, and that wasn't part of the game (or was a small part of the game) years back.

Maybe in this example, the hip hop/gangsta thing has a racial element to it, but that's not really my focus. It's not that any one specific culture has taken over the game, just that the game has been negatively affected by a culture that obviously is less concerned with sports per se, and more concerned with promoting a violent, non-family oriented lifestyle. And where that culture/lifestyle intersects with my enjoyment of the pure sport, it's a problem. I could care less if it's a black culture, Italian mob culture, rich suburban white kid "rave" culture, etc.

[Subby]

Can we agree at least that Simmons' column was freaking hilarious? The NBA and Vegas are right in his wheelhouse...

[Lathum]

Can we agree at least that Simmons' column was freaking hilarious? The NBA and Vegas are right in his wheelhouse...

The simmons one was funny. The other one had much more of a to-the-point agenda.

[Logan]

Can we agree at least that Simmons' column was freaking hilarious? The NBA and Vegas are right in his wheelhouse...

Absolutely. As he said, "There was gambling and partying and Vegas and basketball -- four of my favorite things."

"Favorite" was probably an understatement...more like "his life."

[miami_fan]

I believe Whitlock had a feud with Scoop Jackson and also felt he wasn't free to speak his mind at ESPN. He's now a sports writer for AOL.

Thats a 'promotion' only Ron Rivera could appreciate.

Feud is putting it mildly. Whitlock (as is evident in the article) has an absolute HATE for the hip hop culture. He saw Scoop Jackson as a representative of of that culture in the basketball media and attacked him a few times on Page 2. I can only assume that ESPN did not appreciate one of its columist attacking another. Thus he was not allowed to speak his mind. As far as the article goes, it has pretty much become commonplace for Whitlock to criticize the hip hop culture's influence on the NBA and he has been frustrated by the lack of strong criticism of that influence by some of those who played the game in the past. I know he called out Oscar Robertson for not that at least once.

[BrianD]

We have had a number of conversations around here about whether NBA players are thugs, or whether the hip-hop culture is a good or a bad thing for the league, or about whether the league is too "black" for mainstream America. Has anybody looked into the violence statistics surrounding other sports all-star games or other games?

It would seem to me that no matter what your opinion of an "acceptable culture" would be, a culture of violence should never be acceptable. If the culture of violence surrounding the NBA is far out of line with other leagues, should something be done to change it?

There are also a number of discussions about whether age restrictions for the draft is an attempt to continue to hold African-Americans back, or if it is an attempt to bring more maturity to the league. Does this discussion change in light of the articles in this thread?

[miami_fan]

We have had a number of conversations around here about whether NBA players are thugs, or whether the hip-hop culture is a good or a bad thing for the league, or about whether the league is too "black" for mainstream America. Has anybody looked into the violence statistics surrounding other sports all-star games or other games?

It would seem to me that no matter what your opinion of an "acceptable culture" would be, a culture of violence should never be acceptable. If the culture of violence surrounding the NBA is far out of line with other leagues, should something be done to change it?

There are also a number of discussions about whether age restrictions for the draft is an attempt to continue to hold African-Americans back, or if it is an attempt to bring more maturity to the league. Does this discussion change in light of the articles in this thread?

But that is the question. Is the culture of violence around the NBA that far out of line with other leagues? The athlete in question at the strip club shooting was not a NBA player. He was an NFL player. We have talked about the Cincinati Bengals ad nauseum. The Chargers have had multiple incidents. Tank Johnson's situation etc. I am in no way defending the idiocy of some of the NBA players nor am I calling all NFL players "thugs". Both leagues have their issues.

[Ksyrup]

But that is the question. Is the culture of violence around the NBA that far out of line with other leagues? The athlete in question at the strip club shooting was not a NBA player. He was an NFL player. We have talked about the Cincinati Bengals ad nauseum. The Chargers have had multiple incidents. Tank Johnson's situation etc. I am in no way defending the idiocy of some of the NBA players nor am I calling all NFL players "thugs". Both leagues have their issues.

But I would argue that the NBA has taken to that culture within the four corners of the game much more obviously than the NFL has. Plus, football is a violent game by its very nature, so it tends to get a pass on this issue, since the violence is generalized and can't be traced to any one culture - and indeed, was alive and well before some cultures even existed. I think the NFL has much more in common with the illegal drug culture of the MLB than the thug culture of the NBA.

And again, it's hard not to see the general socio-economic issues that cross sports lines. Even though the NFL has these issues, they don't define the sport like they do the NBA. That's my perception, anyway.

[BrianD]

But that is the question. Is the culture of violence around the NBA that far out of line with other leagues? The athlete in question at the strip club shooting was not a NBA player. He was an NFL player. We have talked about the Cincinati Bengals ad nauseum. The Chargers have had multiple incidents. Tank Johnson's situation etc. I am in no way defending the idiocy of some of the NBA players nor am I calling all NFL players "thugs". Both leagues have their issues.

But isn't there a difference between individual players/incidents and an all-star weekend that brings a crowd that leads to 350 arrests and restaurants that have to close down for safety? I would also say there is a difference between players behaving badly and a general culture.

[lcjjdnh]

I believe Whitlock had a feud with Scoop Jackson and also felt he wasn't free to speak his mind at ESPN. He's now a sports writer for AOL.

Thats a 'promotion' only Ron Rivera could appreciate.

From hxxp://thebiglead.com/?p=1038


Q: Why’d you leave Page 2? Did your feud with Scoop Jackson have anything to do with you leaving?
I’ve always disagreed with Page 2 about the value of my column. But when I started, it was an opportunity to write alongside Ralph Wiley, Hunter S. Thompson and Bill Simmons. That’s a great lineup, and I just wanted to be in the middle of that order somewhere. Page 2 had a lot of energy. Ralph and Hunter passed, Simmons got his own page, the editor who kicked me ideas (Jay Lovinger) got promoted and suddenly I was batting in a very different lineup, and the new manager had me hitting a lot lower in the order. I wasn’t real comfortable, but I figured I’d let things play out. I quit doing radio and had more time to focus on my weekly ideas. The column was already game tight, but the frequency, consistency and content all improved. The compensation didn’t, the place in the batting order didn’t and the team started shopping for talent in remote locations.



He later said some not-so-nice things about Lupica later in the interview, which is the reason Whitlock no longer appears on Sports Reporters, I think.

Also, don't forget, he writes a column for the KC Star in addition to his AOL one. You can find his all-star one here: hxxp://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/sports/columnists/jason_whitlock/16730767.htm

[miami_fan]

But I would argue that the NBA has taken to that culture within the four corners of the game much more obviously than the NFL has. Plus, football is a violent game by its very nature, so it tends to get a pass on this issue, since the violence is generalized and can't be traced to any one culture - and indeed, was alive and well before some cultures even existed. I think the NFL has much more in common with the illegal drug culture of the MLB than the thug culture of the NBA.

And again, it's hard not to see the general socio-economic issues that cross sports lines. Even though the NFL has these issues, they don't define the sport like they do the NBA. That's my perception, anyway.

There was a discussion as to why it this culture was much more obvious in the NBA than in the NFL. NBA players are "seen" on the court while NFL players are helmets, pads etc.

You are right though. I guess it is all about perception. I don't perceive NBA players as a whole to be any more "thuggy" then any other league.

[lordscarlet]

There was a discussion as to why it this culture was much more obvious in the NBA than in the NFL. NBA players are "seen" on the court while NFL players are helmets, pads etc.

You are right though. I guess it is all about perception. I don't perceive NBA players as a whole to be any more "thuggy" then any other league.

I don't think the question here is as much about the players as it is about the culture around it.

[Ksyrup]

You are right though. I guess it is all about perception. I don't perceive NBA players as a whole to be any more "thuggy" then any other league.

I do. Like I said, it all goes back to how they play the game. The idea of being dissed and needing respect and trash talking and showing up the other guy...you see that all play out on th court in basketball far more than in football. In fact, the only football-related action I can think of that could be specifically linked to any particular culture is the throat-slashing gesture that was banned a few years back.

[miami_fan]

I do. Like I said, it all goes back to how they play the game. The idea of being dissed and needing respect and trash talking and showing up the other guy...you see that all play out on th court in basketball far more than in football. In fact, the only football-related action I can think of that could be specifically linked to any particular culture is the throat-slashing gesture that was banned a few years back.

You see it all play out more because it is easier to see it play out. You are kidding yourself if you think those things don't happen on the football field.

[BrianD]

I don't think the question here is as much about the players as it is about the culture around it.

That was the question I was asking.

[Subby]

You should see what the thousands of white people do that attend wizards games.

It is fucking off the hook, yo...the nba has a problem.

[BrianD]

You see it all play out more because it is easier to see it play out. You are kidding yourself if you think those things don't happen on the football field.

So are you saying that football players as just as much thugs as basketball players, but since basketball antics are so much more visible the basketball culture is much more thug-like than the football culture?

[miami_fan]

So are you saying that football players as just as much thugs as basketball players, but since basketball antics are so much more visible the basketball culture is much more thug-like than the football culture?

If I am reading your question correctly, no.

[Pumpy Tudors]

You should see what the thousands of white people do that attend wizards games.

It is fucking off the hook, yo...the nba has a problem.
Wait, what's this about white people attending NBA games? Wizards games, at that? Are there even any white people in DC?

[miami_fan]

I don't think the question here is as much about the players as it is about the culture around it.

Define the culture around basketball if it is not about the players.

[Ksyrup]

You see it all play out more because it is easier to see it play out. You are kidding yourself if you think those things don't happen on the football field.

I'm saying the culture has taken on a life of its own on the court that is largely absent from football. Football players get themselves in trouble, but I don't see the ties to the game itself that I see with basketball.

Let me just put it this way...take the NFL Pro Bowl out of Honolulu and put it in Las Vegas, and I don't think you have the same weekend that teh NBA just experienced.

[SirFozzie]

Wait, what's this about white people attending NBA games? Wizards games, at that? Are there even any white people in DC?

Yes. They're called politicians. Or Crooks. Interchangable, really.

[Pumpy Tudors]

Yes. They're called politicians. Or Crooks. Interchangable, really.
For kicks, I'd like to see a thread about whether politicians are crooks, the same way that we have the monthly thread about whether NBA players are thugs.

[molson]

The thing that bothers me about these discussions is everyone bases their opinions on their own anecdotal perceptions, which can obviously be distorted by many things, including life experiences and prejudices.

Most of the perceptions about the NBA presumably don't come from people actually watching the games. Typically, those negative perceptions are made by people that aren't fans. Instead, those perceptions come from things the brain chooses to remember and take extra stock in from things heard in the media that people choose to remember or to put extra stock in.

This kind of phenomenon, the forming of perceptions based on anecdotal evidence is, to me, is the clearest form of racism that I can perceive as still existing in the country (obviously, a black guy would be able to perceive a lot more).

Not calling anyone racists here.

[Subby]

For kicks, I'd like to see a thread about whether politicians are crooks, the same way that we have the monthly thread about whether NBA players are thugs.
Did you go to former President Gerald Ford's funeral? It was like Republican woodstock. I was so afraid that I was going to get shaken down or that someone was going to peddle influence or make an illegal campaign contribution to me.

White people and their scary culture scare me! The federal government has a real problem on its hands!

[Pumpy Tudors]

By the way, as a black man and a thug, I think that 111% of all NBA players are thugs, except Pau Gasol who is only 87% thug.

[Pumpy Tudors]

Did you go to former President Gerald Ford's funeral? It was like Republican woodstock. I was so afraid that I was going to get shaken down or that someone was going to peddle influence or make an illegal campaign contribution to me.

White people and their scary culture scare me! The federal government has a real problem on its hands!
I want to snuggle with you.

[BrianD]

Define the culture around basketball if it is not about the players.

The culture in basketball would center around the players and coaches.
The culture around basketball would include the fans and activities around the stadium/action.

[Subby]

The culture in basketball would center around the players and coaches.
The culture around basketball would include the fans and activities around the stadium/action.
Brian - in all seriousness, this is not something that happens around the large majority of basketball games. Hundreds of basketball games take place every year with no incidents. I just think all-star weekend has taken on a life of its own for whatever reason and the Las Vegas police department was ill-equipped to deal with it.

[BrianD]

For kicks, I'd like to see a thread about whether politicians are crooks, the same way that we have the monthly thread about whether NBA players are thugs.

But how fun would it be to have a whole thread where people agree that politicians are crooks?

[BrianD]

Brian - in all seriousness, this is not something that happens around the large majority of basketball games. Hundreds of basketball games take place every year with no incidents. I just think all-star weekend has taken on a life of its own for whatever reason and the Las Vegas police department was ill-equipped to deal with it.

Thank you for being the first person to seriously address my question.

I do realize that this sort of activity doesn't happen around normal games and is reserved for the all-star weekend...and championship winning teams.

My main question is whether this was one crazy weekend that got out of control? Is this a regular all-star weekend thing? Is this limited to all-star weekends for the NBA or does it also happen in other sports?

OK, that was three questions. Basically I want context so I can properly evaluate this story.

[Subby]

I do realize that this sort of activity doesn't happen around normal games and is reserved for the all-star weekend...and championship winning teams.

My main question is whether this was one crazy weekend that got out of control? Is this a regular all-star weekend thing? Is this limited to all-star weekends for the NBA or does it also happen in other sports?

OK, that was three questions. Basically I want context so I can properly evaluate this story.

Well championship winning teams cuts across all sports...I think we can both agree on that.

And in all honesty, I think having the all-star game in Vegas is the issue here. You already have an anything goes culture. Add to that an ill-prepared police presence. Then you have a place which basically exists on one street, so you have major traffic problems and lots of pedestrians to kind throw gasoline on the fire.

Big events attract this kind of behavior (see any number of SuperBowl stories), but I think the city itself is a big culprit here. I don't recall all-star games in years past being anywhere near this notorious.

[TheOhioStateUniversity]

Where is the major media coverage of this purported weekend of thug terror over Las Vegas. This seems like propaganda exaggerating a few or even several isolated events. I am sure many major events bring an increased criminal presence, but I'm just not buying this "Thug terror" "hip hop culture" BS.

[Subby]

Where is the major media coverage of this purported weekend of thug terror over Las Vegas. This seems like propaganda exaggerating a few or even several isolated events. I am sure many major events bring an increased criminal presence, but I'm just not buying this "Thug terror" "hip hop culture" BS.
espn.com and aol.com (Simmons and Whitlock both talk about it a lot)

[lordscarlet]

Wait, what's this about white people attending NBA games? Wizards games, at that? Are there even any white people in DC?

The District of Columbia was 30% white (http://www.census.gov/population/cen2000/phc-t6/tab02.pdf) in the last census.

Define the culture around basketball if it is not about the players.

It's about the fans that attend games, follow the sport, and give the "everyday face" of it to the general public (since most people don't watch the NBA, they only see people wearing the shwag around the mall).

Yes. They're called politicians. Or Crooks. Interchangable, really.

And lordscarlet.

[st.cronin]

I think having the all-star game in Vegas is the issue here.

+1

[Pumpy Tudors]

The District of Columbia was 30% white (http://www.census.gov/population/cen2000/phc-t6/tab02.pdf) in the last census.
Yeah, that's kinda what I'm saying.

[Buccaneer]

It would seem to me that no matter what your opinion of an "acceptable culture" would be, a culture of violence should never be acceptable. If the culture of violence surrounding the NBA is far out of line with other leagues, should something be done to change it?



That is where I am coming from: "a culture of violence" should never be acceptable (or glorified) for entertainment value, just like a culture of racism should not acceptable either. I don't care what color your skin is. I feel the same way about the culture of drugs because I come from a time where the anti-drugs message (right after the 60s) was drilled into me from every source. You can be understanding of where someone came from and the socio-economical conditions they grew up in but the motivation is do better through education and following the lead of role models - not those that want to glorify gangs, violence, drugs, etc. because somehow it lends them more credibility.

[Honolulu_Blue]

But that is the question. Is the culture of violence around the NBA that far out of line with other leagues? The athlete in question at the strip club shooting was not a NBA player. He was an NFL player. We have talked about the Cincinati Bengals ad nauseum. The Chargers have had multiple incidents. Tank Johnson's situation etc. I am in no way defending the idiocy of some of the NBA players nor am I calling all NFL players "thugs". Both leagues have their issues.

Given that one of the "big" incidents in Vegas over the weekend was curteousy of Adam "PacMan" Jones and his posse, it seems like the line trying to be drawn here has become a bit blurrier.

PacMan needs to be done. Over. No more.

[Logan]

Given that one of the "big" incidents in Vegas over the weekend was curteousy of Adam "PacMan" Jones and his posse, it seems like the line trying to be drawn here has become a bit blurrier.

PacMan needs to be done. Over. No more.

In all fairness, I think Pacman was only a witness to a shooting, and had zero to do with it.

Please go pick on him for one of his 67 other crimes.

[BishopMVP]

In all fairness, I think Pacman was only a witness to a shooting, and had zero to do with it.

Please go pick on him for one of his 67 other crimes.Club co-owner Robert Susnar "He denied any knowledge of the shooter, but he was sitting right next to him. Those guys came in together and left together (http://www.reviewjournal.com/lvrj_home/2007/Feb-21-Wed-2007/news/12722196.html)."

Susnar later said that Jones assaulted a stripper, and when a bouncer, Aaron Cudworth, intervened, Jones threatened to kill him. After a scuffle between the bouncer, Jones and Jones' posse, the group moved outside.

The club owner indicated shots came from Jones' group, hitting Cudworth, a female customer, and security guard Tom Urbanski. Urbanski is now permanently paralyzed from the waist down.

SbB has also learned from sources close to the victims that bouncer Cudworth was bit on the leg - near his ankle - and that Pacman may have been the biter. Police swabbed the scraping mark for DNA.

[Ksyrup]

The thing that bothers me about these discussions is everyone bases their opinions on their own anecdotal perceptions, which can obviously be distorted by many things, including life experiences and prejudices.

Most of the perceptions about the NBA presumably don't come from people actually watching the games. Typically, those negative perceptions are made by people that aren't fans. Instead, those perceptions come from things the brain chooses to remember and take extra stock in from things heard in the media that people choose to remember or to put extra stock in.

This kind of phenomenon, the forming of perceptions based on anecdotal evidence is, to me, is the clearest form of racism that I can perceive as still existing in the country (obviously, a black guy would be able to perceive a lot more).

Not calling anyone racists here.

I was a big NBA fan in the 80s and through the early part of the 90s. I gradually lost interest and haven't enjoyed the game since the mid-90s, I guess. And a lot of it has to do with the "disrespect" factor, the in your face mentality, and the focus on the individual as opposed to the team. A lot of what I respond to now may be anecdotal, but I was a fan at one point and they lost me.

[Logan]

Must've seen an article that was put up too quickly...I stand corrected.

[Honolulu_Blue]

In all fairness, I think Pacman was only a witness to a shooting, and had zero to do with it.

Please go pick on him for one of his 67 other crimes.


Club co-owner Robert Susnar "He denied any knowledge of the shooter, but he was sitting right next to him. Those guys came in together and left together (http://www.reviewjournal.com/lvrj_home/2007/Feb-21-Wed-2007/news/12722196.html)."

Susnar later said that Jones assaulted a stripper, and when a bouncer, Aaron Cudworth, intervened, Jones threatened to kill him. After a scuffle between the bouncer, Jones and Jones' posse, the group moved outside.

The club owner indicated shots came from Jones' group, hitting Cudworth, a female customer, and security guard Tom Urbanski. Urbanski is now permanently paralyzed from the waist down.

SbB has also learned from sources close to the victims that bouncer Cudworth was bit on the leg - near his ankle - and that Pacman may have been the biter. Police swabbed the scraping mark for DNA.

Must've seen an article that was put up too quickly...I stand corrected.

Yes. By all accounts PacMan started the whole incident when he slammed the stripper's head into the stage and then punched her because she wasn't following "Rain Dance" ettiquette or some such nonsense.

The guy's a fucking animal.

[Pumpy Tudors]

Yes. By all accounts PacMan started the whole incident when he slammed the stripper's head into the stage and then punched her because she wasn't following "Rain Dance" ettiquette or some such nonsense.

The guy's a fucking animal.
The scary thing is that I can't tell whether this is a joke or not. :(

[Buccaneer]

I was a big NBA fan in the 80s and through the early part of the 90s. I gradually lost interest and haven't enjoyed the game since the mid-90s, I guess. And a lot of it has to do with the "disrespect" factor, the in your face mentality, and the focus on the individual as opposed to the team. A lot of what I respond to now may be anecdotal, but I was a fan at one point and they lost me.

You know who I blame for that? ;)

[Pumpy Tudors]

You know who I blame for that? ;)
Cornrows?

[Buccaneer]

Cornrows?

Very funny.

Everyone wanted to Be Like Mike after that, play 1-on-5 playground hoops and be THE MAN with fundamentals and team play being ridiculed as being too boring.

[st.cronin]

I blame Rick Pitino.

[rkmsuf]

I blame Rick Pitino.

It was that g-damn world b free.

[JPhillips]

I blame Larry Bird and all his trash talking.

[miami_fan]

I blame Larry Bird and all his trash talking.

This is funny. I remember going to a Sixers-Celts game in the Spectrum with my uncle years ago. Larry Bird was hell on any Sixer that went to the foul line. Trash talk extraordinaire!

[Pumpy Tudors]

Very funny.

Everyone wanted to Be Like Mike after that, play 1-on-5 playground hoops and be THE MAN with fundamentals and team play being ridiculed as being too boring.
I understand your point, but I think "cornrows" would have been a funnier answer!

[Honolulu_Blue]

Very funny.

Everyone wanted to Be Like Mike after that, play 1-on-5 playground hoops and be THE MAN with fundamentals and team play being ridiculed as being too boring.

You need to watch a little more Deeeeeeetroit Basketbaaaaal! It's all about fundamentals and team play.

[Pumpy Tudors]

Remember that slam dunk contest a couple of years back when Steve Nash got shot in the head with a basketball? You knew it was all downhill from there.

[Buccaneer]

You need to watch a little more Deeeeeeetroit Basketbaaaaal! It's all about fundamentals and team play.

Same with the Spurs the past few seasons but I believe those are the exceptions.

Chocolate Thunder was right.

[Eaglesfan27]

Nm, you were already corrected and I need to pay closer attention to time stamps ;)

[stevew]

Some Jailtime for PacMan would be good for him. If he did this of course.

[Gary Gorski]

It was a bad idea to have the all-star weekend in Vegas. I also find it odd that despite the fact that a NFL player is the one who allegedly caused the most trouble the entire weekend that we're back on the NBA thugwagon here.

I just find it strange that some people can look at the NBA and see a bunch of thugs and look at other sports like the NFL and not see the same. There's "thugs" in the NBA along with druggies and adulterers and whatever else but those guys are in the NFL, MLB and NHL too yet the NBA is the one that gets the bad rap all the time. Obviously the NBA has an image problem but its interesting that the other sports don't get the same criticisms. Even when you have a team that has become a running joke for players being arrested the stigma of being "thugs" only goes so far as that team and not the league as a whole. Can anyone logically explain that? How many NBA players have been up for murder in the past few years?

The all-star weekend festivities are horrible and the game itself is worse - but so is everyone else's all-star game. I just fail to see how its another black eye on the NBA that an NFL player is allegedly very involved in the worst incident of the weekend. I can pretty much guarantee that if an NBA player and his posse shot someone at the pro bowl we'd be having the same discussion about thugs in the NBA.

[albionmoonlight]

It was a bad idea to have the all-star weekend in Vegas. I also find it odd that despite the fact that a NFL player is the one who allegedly caused the most trouble the entire weekend that we're back on the NBA thugwagon here.

I just find it strange that some people can look at the NBA and see a bunch of thugs and look at other sports like the NFL and not see the same. There's "thugs" in the NBA along with druggies and adulterers and whatever else but those guys are in the NFL, MLB and NHL too yet the NBA is the one that gets the bad rap all the time. Obviously the NBA has an image problem but its interesting that the other sports don't get the same criticisms. Even when you have a team that has become a running joke for players being arrested the stigma of being "thugs" only goes so far as that team and not the league as a whole. Can anyone logically explain that? How many NBA players have been up for murder in the past few years?

The all-star weekend festivities are horrible and the game itself is worse - but so is everyone else's all-star game. I just fail to see how its another black eye on the NBA that an NFL player is allegedly very involved in the worst incident of the weekend. I can pretty much guarantee that if an NBA player and his posse shot someone at the pro bowl we'd be having the same discussion about thugs in the NBA.

I think that people underestimate the uniform thing. If people saw NFL players with their cornrows and tats, they would have a more negative image of them.

As it is, the players are covered from head to toe, so we can't see their "thuggish" looks.

NBA players do not have uniforms that cover them, so we see their tats and cornrows and get a negative, thuggish, image of them.

[albionmoonlight]

dola--

And, of course, the dirty little secret is that golfers are the most thuggish athletes out there:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,253919,00.html


(You kinda have to stop reading after the headline to maintain the joke)

[stevew]

I think that people underestimate the uniform thing. If people saw NFL players with their cornrows and tats, they would have a more negative image of them.

As it is, the players are covered from head to toe, so we can't see their "thuggish" looks.

NBA players do not have uniforms that cover them, so we see their tats and cornrows and get a negative, thuggish, image of them.

That's pretty much my opinion as well.

[BrianD]

I think that people underestimate the uniform thing. If people saw NFL players with their cornrows and tats, they would have a more negative image of them.

As it is, the players are covered from head to toe, so we can't see their "thuggish" looks.

NBA players do not have uniforms that cover them, so we see their tats and cornrows and get a negative, thuggish, image of them.

I take back my comments. I am sure some people underestimate the uniform thing. I also think explaining everything away in those terms won't help to fix an image which (right or wrong) is present.

[lcjjdnh]

Apparently, some LV city officials are not very pleased with Mr. Whitlock's article. Although it's like they would have any incentive to cover things like this up other anything.

From Jason Whitlock himself on another board:

hxxp://www.sportsjournalists.com/forum/index.php/topic,38073.0.html

CJR (Columbia Journalism Review) reporter called me this afternoon. Says he's talked to the mayor's office, the Vegas police chief, casino heads and other journalists in Vegas for All-Star festivities and I pretty much made it all up. Things were quiet and peaceful in Vegas last weekend.

Not sure how I'll respond.


He has various other responses throughout the thread.

[lcjjdnh]

The CJR article (I haven't read it yet):

hxxp://www.cjrdaily.org/behind_the_news/jason_whitlock_had_a_great_tim.php

[bhlloy]

FWIW, I was in Vegas this weekend and a female shuttle driver told me that the All-Star game was the scariest night she had ever worked and she would rather quit and work off the strip if it ever came back to Vegas.

[ctmason]

It sounds like NBA All-Star Weekend was no worse than anything that happened when a bunch of white kids raise hell in Panama City Beach or a bunch of (mostly white) bikers raise hell in Sturgis.

I don't think its fair to equate this particular weekend to any sort of "NBA Culture." It's all relative to where you live. The NBA culture in Atlanta is definitely different than the NBA culture in Phoenix. The culture of Washington, D.C. is probably different than in San Antonio. Its no different than the baseball culture in New York being decidedly different than the baseball culture in Orange County....

By the way, is it just me or does Anaheim Stadium have more hard liquor booths in it than any other stadium? I swear I thought I was in a circular booze cruise the whole time.