2007 NBA Draft/Offseason Thread

[Groundhog]

It may be bad luck to start a thread like this when my team is still playing, but as a longtime-suffering Cavs fan my interest in the draft as a whole has steadily increased over the years.

Even the past few years when the Cavs didn't have much to work with in the way of draft picks, I tend to follow a couple of sleeper players that I root for in the draft and hope they wind up in good situations. They are usually kids who performed well at big-time colleges or conferences, but for one reason or another they aren't projected as first round picks.

This year the guy I'm rooting for is Boston College's Jared Dudley. I only saw three BC games last season but he struck me as the kind of guy you love to have as a teammate. In each game I saw he was all over the court doing pretty much everything to get his team the win.

As usual, he's a senior and not a great athlete, so he's projected to be a 2nd rounder regardless of the fact that he was probably the best player in his conference. He performed very well at the NBA pre-draft camp, but it's still unlikely he'll get selected in the first round, and will probably be an early 2nd rounder. He would do better as a role player on a winning team rather than a bit-time player on a lottery team, and with Dallas and San Antonio picking at #3 and #4 in the 2nd round, that's probably his best fit.

Another guy I'm rooting for is Pitt's Aaron Gray. I think he should wind up a serviceable big guy in the NBA, and It's looking like he'll be around in the 2nd round too. At best he could wind up a Brad Miller-esque guy, which isn't bad for the 2nd round.

[DaddyTorgo]

Dudley is a player. He may not be the most physically gifted player out there, but he's just a straight...player. He wants the ball in the clutch, decent rebounder for a big guy, solid range, good putting the ball on the floor.

You're right though. He will do much better doing in the second round and getting onto a decent team hopefully rather than going high. It will allow him time to make the leap without having the pressure of trying to carry a whole city on his back (which he may not have the physical freakishish ability to do a la Oden or LeBron). He will play and contribute well wherever he goes though, of that I have no doubt.

[miami_fan]

Sounds like Flip will be back for the Pistons.

[stevew]

Actually, seriously it's a lot better to be undrafted then to go in the 2nd round. Dudley could then get a chance to try out for a team where he has a chance to get into a good situation make their roster, or possibly go overseas for a year and show what he's got.

I also hope the Cavs can buy a first rounder this year...it'd be nice to get a developmental big guy to back up Z and hopefully take over in 3 years.

[BishopMVP]

Dudley is a whiny crybaby, but he'll be a solid player in the NBA. If he falls to the late 1st/2nd that would be similar to Josh Howard's drop after being ACC PoY. Another sleeper that I have been touting for months is UMass' Stephane Lasme. Only measured as 6'6, but he has hops and averaged 5 blocks a game at the Orlando pre-draft camp. He'll immediately come in and be a help defense presence, high-energy guy who hustles, and since he's only been playing for 5 years his offensive game should continue developing.

[st.cronin]

I'm just hoping Conley slips to #5. I think he's going to be crazy good.

[DaddyTorgo]

Dudley is a whiny crybaby, but he'll be a solid player in the NBA. If he falls to the late 1st/2nd that would be similar to Josh Howard's drop after being ACC PoY. Another sleeper that I have been touting for months is UMass' Stephane Lasme. Only measured as 6'6, but he has hops and averaged 5 blocks a game at the Orlando pre-draft camp. He'll immediately come in and be a help defense presence, high-energy guy who hustles, and since he's only been playing for 5 years his offensive game should continue developing.

whiny crybaby?

[Atocep]

I'm just hoping Conley slips to #5. I think he's going to be crazy good.

I wouldn't be suprised if Conley slips a bit. I've been reading that Atlanta thinks #3 is too high for him and they're leaning toward taking the best player on the board, Brandon Wright (another wing!).

He's a tough call. One year with the talent OSU had makes it tough to really judge a PG. Small-ish point guards are usually difficult to project.

[st.cronin]

I wouldn't be suprised if Conley slips a bit. I've been reading that Atlanta thinks #3 is too high for him and they're leaning toward taking the best player on the board, Brandon Wright (another wing!).

He's a tough call. One year with the talent OSU had makes it tough to really judge a PG. Small-ish point guards are usually difficult to project.

Wright's another guy I like a lot in the draft. If Conley and Wright go 3-4 ... I'll be sad.

[stevew]

I wouldn't be suprised if Conley slips a bit. I've been reading that Atlanta thinks #3 is too high for him and they're leaning toward taking the best player on the board, Brandon Wright (another wing!).

He's a tough call. One year with the talent OSU had makes it tough to really judge a PG. Small-ish point guards are usually difficult to project.

The Hawks are stooopid to pass on another PG for a wing. Then again they are the hawks....

I think Conley is going to be great....he's got a good head on his shoulders and comes from a good family. He should be a great defender with his speed and hands. Even if he's not a great shooter, I'd say he'll still be a good player for 10+ years, barring any major injuries.

[Sublime 2]

I wouldn't be suprised if Conley slips a bit. I've been reading that Atlanta thinks #3 is too high for him and they're leaning toward taking the best player on the board, Brandon Wright (another wing!).



Isn't Wright going to be a PF? He's 6'10" with a pretty big wingspan. I didn't see much of him, but from what I've read everywhere he's a 4 at least.

[Atocep]

Isn't Wright going to be a PF? He's 6'10" with a pretty big wingspan. I didn't see much of him, but from what I've read everywhere he's a 4 at least.

He's a Garnett-type wing. He's going to play the 3 unless he get stronger. The guy is built almost exactly the same way Garnett was at that age. He's going to have to work his ass of to grow into a 4.

[Sublime 2]

Wright's another guy I like a lot in the draft. If Conley and Wright go 3-4 ... I'll be sad.

Do you want the C's to take one of them, or are you looking for another team to jump up to #5 in a trade with the Celtics? I can't see the Celtics taking Conley, Wright is possible though I think. Before the measurements and physical tests I was really looking at Corey Brewer, but I think he faired the worst in Orlando and can't see him being taken as high as everyone thought now. Jeff Green would be an interesting pick, got kind of the point forward thing going for him, and I think he could definitely play the 4 along with the 3.

[Groundhog]

Over the past week or so Conley has taken a bit of a hit from the critics. The "critics" may just be sport journalists, but I think there are definately some question marks about his game that might prevent Atlanta grabbing him. I think he's definately the best choice for them because the only other options where they'll be selecting are either a PF or a tweener wing player, which they have 11 of already.

Still, I can totally see Atlanta passing on Conley at 3 with the hopes of either him falling to #11, or grabbing Acie Law/Crittenton at that spot, though those two would be a reach that high most likely.

Being Atlanta, they will probably grab Brandon Wright at #3, and Thaddeus Young at #11...

[Groundhog]

Excellent article up on draftexpress.com today regarding the NBA Pre-Draft combine:

http://www.draftexpress.com/viewarticle.php?a=2096

Absolutely crazy to see that Monta Ellis was ranked the worst athlete of all players measured in his draft class, and that J.J. Reddick verticle leap was measured one inch less than Andre Iguodala's.

[st.cronin]

Do you want the C's to take one of them, or are you looking for another team to jump up to #5 in a trade with the Celtics? I can't see the Celtics taking Conley, Wright is possible though I think. Before the measurements and physical tests I was really looking at Corey Brewer, but I think he faired the worst in Orlando and can't see him being taken as high as everyone thought now. Jeff Green would be an interesting pick, got kind of the point forward thing going for him, and I think he could definitely play the 4 along with the 3.

I want the C's to draft Conley, I think that's their best pick. I am not interested in Jeff Green, he doesn't really impress me at all. Brewer would be an ok pick, but he's kind of the same type of player as Pierce.

The Chinese guy keeps getting compared to Pau Gasol, which I find worrisome - Gasol is such an odd player, its almost like Jianlian doesn't remind the scouts of anybody good, so they're just making something up.

[Radii]

He's a Garnett-type wing. He's going to play the 3 unless he get stronger. The guy is built almost exactly the same way Garnett was at that age. He's going to have to work his ass of to grow into a 4.


Agreed there on Wright, he has nice touch and I could see him working on his shooting range and playing the 3 more easily than bulking up and banging down low primarily.

[stevew]

The Chinese guy keeps getting compared to Pau Gasol, which I find worrisome - Gasol is such an odd player, its almost like Jianlian doesn't remind the scouts of anybody good, so they're just making something up.

The Chinese Brad Lohaus.

[stevew]

dola....most likely the Hawks should take the BPA at #3, and then swap him for someone taken a bit later, and hope to get another asset back in a trade with that player.

[Groundhog]

dola....most likely the Hawks should take the BPA at #3, and then swap him for someone taken a bit later, and hope to get another asset back in a trade with that player.

No idea who is running the show in Atlanta, but I agree with you. Grab BPA, see where Conley ends up. In the unlikely event that Conley is there at #11, take him. If not, see who does and try and get Conley.

Maybe even swing a deal with the Sixers and try and grab a couple of their picks and Andre Miller.

[stevew]

I should clarify....i think Conley is probably the best player for the Hawks, but most likely they can get him and another asset by taking the BPA at #3 and doing a straight swap. I think the Celtics might nab him at 5, but they have about a million small players as it is. Set up a deal with someone like Milwaukee at 6, or Minnesota at #7.

[stevew]

Maybe even swing a deal with the Sixers and try and grab a couple of their picks and Andre Miller.

I'd love it if we could get Dre Miller or even Bibby for Goods this offseason. We are starting to have enough expiring deals that we can get something done.

[st.cronin]

I think the Celtics might nab him at 5, but they have about a million small players as it is.

How many of them are any good, though?

[Karlifornia]

Well, one endorsement Kevin Durant won't be getting is cover of Men's Fitness magazine.

[stevew]

How many of them are any good, though?

I heard they were planning on tanking for OJ Mayo or Derrick Rose anyways, so it's too early to nab that franchise PG.

[st.cronin]

I heard they were planning on tanking for OJ Mayo or Derrick Rose anyways, so it's too early to nab that franchise PG.

That's a good point.

[Logan]

Well, one endorsement Kevin Durant won't be getting is cover of Men's Fitness magazine.

For the unaware...

Kevin Durant Can't Bench 185 (http://sports.aol.com/fanhouse/2007/06/04/kevin-durant-cant-bench-185/)

[Atocep]

For the unaware...

Kevin Durant Can't Bench 185 (http://sports.aol.com/fanhouse/2007/06/04/kevin-durant-cant-bench-185/)

I know there's a ton of people that are very high on Durant, but I honestly think Brandon Wright's potential is much closer to Durant's than Durant is to Oden.

[Groundhog]

I'd love it if we could get Dre Miller or even Bibby for Goods this offseason. We are starting to have enough expiring deals that we can get something done.

I'd give my firstborn to get Dre back in Cleveland. I was a massive fan of his when he was at Utah U, and I've always regretted Cleveland parting ways with him. He's probably my favourite basketball player, and everything that I look for in a PG.

[st.cronin]

I know there's a ton of people that are very high on Durant, but I honestly think Brandon Wright's potential is much closer to Durant's than Durant is to Oden.

I don't think that's crazy at all. I'm pretty sure that Wright could jump over my house.

[Groundhog]

No argument from me about Brandan Wright, either - any other year and everyone would be drooling from the mouth over him.

My big problem with him is that, sure, he's a legit 6'10 in shoes, but the guy is 200lbs right now and doesn't have any kind of mid-range game (that I've seen) to speak of. Really needs to add at least 20lbs, but who knows how much that'll affect his athletic abililty.

[Groundhog]

I'm hoping he finds his way onto the Wizards roster as he'd be a nice backup with Haywood on the first train out of town.

Yeah, that might be a good fit for Gray actually. I don't know how strong a rebounder he'll be at the next level, but his style of play would probably fit well with the scorers that the Wizards have in their starting unit.

[Neon_Chaos]

It would be interesting to see who drafts Yi Jianlian. Basketball skills aside, he'll be a big boost to merchandise sales and his team will be able to get into a huge market in China (seeing as Yao and Yi are the only guys China are boasting about in basketball right now).

[miami_fan]

For the unaware...

Kevin Durant Can't Bench 185 (http://sports.aol.com/fanhouse/2007/06/04/kevin-durant-cant-bench-185/)

FWIW, this did not surprise me at all. I mean look at him. If he spent an hour in the weight room over the last 5 years, I would be shocked.

[BishopMVP]

whiny crybaby?In the Tim Duncan/Manu Ginobili sense where he's shocked any call went against him. Speaking of which, the Spurs would be a good fit for him late 1/early 2. He also is probably a model citizen if he made it through 4 years of BC basketball without being arrested once.

[rkmsuf]

I should clarify....i think Conley is probably the best player for the Hawks, but most likely they can get him and another asset by taking the BPA at #3 and doing a straight swap. I think the Celtics might nab him at 5, but they have about a million small players as it is. Set up a deal with someone like Milwaukee at 6, or Minnesota at #7.

If the C's take Conley at 5 Danny Ainge better not answer a strange knock at the door. At any hour.

[BishopMVP]

For those curious, NBA Pre-Draft measurements - http://www.draftexpress.com/measurements.php?year=2007

[Arles]

So, if Boston takes Conley at 5, they will have:
6-4 G Tony Allen (1st rounder in 04)
6-0 G Sabby Telfair (1st rounder in 04)
6-2 G Delonte West (1st rounder in 04)
6-1 G Rajon Rondo (1st rounder in 06)
6-0 G Mike Conley (1st rounder in 07)

And that's not even counting the 6-2 Allan Ray. That would be about a 7.5/10 on the unintentional comedy scale by Bill Simmons. Surpassed only by the SF collection in Atlanta and the WR group in Detroit.

[rkmsuf]

they aren't taking conley

and telfair is unlikely to be a celtic next season. it will be west/rondo.

[JPhillips]

But Telfair won't be back and Allen may not be the same player. Personally I think the two spots the Cs need are PG and C. They aren't going to get a center, so getting a PG is the best option.

I hope they trade the pick, but if they don't Conley makes a lot of sense.

[DeToxRox]

I will once again express my manlove for Acie Law, the best PG in this draft, and my hope the Pistons find a way to get him.

[st.cronin]

So, if Boston takes Conley at 5, they will have:
6-4 G Tony Allen (1st rounder in 04)
6-0 G Sabby Telfair (1st rounder in 04)
6-2 G Delonte West (1st rounder in 04)
6-1 G Rajon Rondo (1st rounder in 06)
6-0 G Mike Conley (1st rounder in 07)

And that's not even counting the 6-2 Allan Ray. That would be about a 7.5/10 on the unintentional comedy scale by Bill Simmons. Surpassed only by the SF collection in Atlanta and the WR group in Detroit.

How many of those can actually play point guard in the NBA? Other than Conley, none.

[rkmsuf]

How many of those can actually play point guard in the NBA? Other than Conley, none.

who says Conley can? The hype machine is in full force for this guy who is 5-11. I'm sure he's fine but people are getting carried away.

Rondo is their man and will probably get the most minutes at the PG next year. I have no issue with him and West out there unless of course Conley is like another Nash.

I like Brewer at the #5 spot. Guy that can actually play defense. C's need someone like that, not necessarily scoring.

[Atocep]

they aren't taking conley

and telfair is unlikely to be a celtic next season. it will be west/rondo.

I agree. I think Rondo showed enough last year that he deserves a good look. He was a 1st round pick last year and didn't suck, its way too early to give up on him.

If its Chris Paul sitting there at #5, its one thing. But you're looking at an undersized PG that played 1 year in college. Taking Conley would be a typical Danny Ainge mistake.

[st.cronin]

who says Conley can? The hype machine is in full force for this guy who is 5-11. I'm sure he's fine but people are getting carried away.

Rondo is their man and will probably get the most minutes at the PG next year. I have no issue with him and West out there unless of course Conley is like another Nash.

I like Brewer at the #5 spot. Guy that can actually play defense. C's need someone like that, not necessarily scoring.

Rondo and West are both Gil Arenas style guards, not really what you want for a point. And Conley can play defense.

Not that it really matters who they take, they're probably going to suck anyway.

[rkmsuf]

Taking Conley would be a typical Danny Ainge mistake.

I'm getting worried because I've heard very little about him out of C's camp. That means Ainge is all over this guy.

Farging dufus. Yeah, let's take on Wally and 15 billion dollars a year for the next 12 years.

[DeToxRox]

Seriously tho .. am I the only one who feels Law is the best PG in this draft? I think he is going to be Brandon Roy-like as a rookie.

[rkmsuf]

Seriously tho .. am I the only one who feels Law is the best PG in this draft? I think he is going to be Brandon Roy-like as a rookie.

No, Law looks like a good player. If you want a scoring type PG he is your man.

Think like Sam Cassell perhaps. Well maybe that's a knock in a way but you get the idea.

[st.cronin]

Seriously tho .. am I the only one who feels Law is the best PG in this draft? I think he is going to be Brandon Roy-like as a rookie.

I think he's ok, but there's no way he's as good as Conley. I only saw Acie play a couple of times, though.

[DeToxRox]

I think Law is going to be a solid contributor right away. He's a four year guy who plays with attitude and has that aura about him where he wants the ball in his hands at the end of the game.

Take away Conleys tournament and what'd he really do?

[rkmsuf]

I think he's ok, but there's no way he's as good as Conley. I only saw Acie play a couple of times, though.

manlove

[Atocep]

Seriously tho .. am I the only one who feels Law is the best PG in this draft? I think he is going to be Brandon Roy-like as a rookie.

I don't think there's a great PG in this draft. I think Law, Conley, and Crittenton on about the same level. In '05 none of these guys are anywhere near the lottery. All have multiple flaws in their game.

Its a great draft to be a PG.

[BishopMVP]

So, if Boston takes Conley at 5, they will have:
6-4 G Tony Allen (1st rounder in 04)
6-0 G Sabby Telfair (1st rounder in 04)
6-2 G Delonte West (1st rounder in 04)
6-1 G Rajon Rondo (1st rounder in 06)
6-0 G Mike Conley (1st rounder in 07)

And that's not even counting the 6-2 Allan Ray. That would be about a 7.5/10 on the unintentional comedy scale by Bill Simmons. Surpassed only by the SF collection in Atlanta and the WR group in Detroit.The difference is that none of the first 3 can play point guard, and the jury's out on Rondo. I'd love to take Brewer, but at the 2/3 we have

Paul Pierce
Wally Szczerbiak (please get rid of him)
Tony Allen
Delonte West
Gerald Green (supposedly our wing of the future, but I doubt he ever develops. I think he'd be lucky to score a 10 on the Wonderlic if this was the NFL.)

taking Brewer would essentially mean trading one of our three proven NBA players (Pierce/Wally/Jefferson) or giving up on the guy (Green) with the most "potential" on the team. Then, Jefferson is firmly entrenched at the 4 with Perkins a serviceable backup at the 4/5 but not starter material. Unless we can magically swing a deal for a center, or we switch to a small-ball lineup with Jefferson at the 5 (I wouldn't be entirely against the idea) PG is the only logical spot for improvement.

[rkmsuf]

wow, C's fans really think that conley is a big upgrade from rondo? that's amazing to me to consider that type talent at #5 in the draft.

[st.cronin]

wow, C's fans really think that conley is a big upgrade from rondo? that's amazing to me to consider that type talent at #5 in the draft.

There's a lot of 3-4 types available, like Wright, the Chinaman, Horford, Noah. But those guys are a dime a dozen, there's always a bunch of good ones in the draft. Good point guards and centers don't come around that often.

[rkmsuf]

There's a lot of 3-4 types available, like Wright, the Chinaman, Horford, Noah. But those guys are a dime a dozen, there's always a bunch of good ones in the draft. Good point guards and centers don't come around that often.

the central point revolves around the concept of "good" I guess

[BishopMVP]

the central point revolves around the concept of "good" I guess"Good" kind of means better in the next 3 years. I have no idea about the Chinese guy, but the three college players (that should be there at 5) that excite me are Brewer, Brandon Wright and Horford. Brewer I went over up top, Horford is basically the same player Jefferson is and Wright is not going to be a better SF than Pierce anytime soon. If Hibbert were still in the draft, we'd probably pick him and hope he turned into a good center.

[miami_fan]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2895185

Quin Snyder grew up a fan of Sonics great Dennis Johnson, a poster of Johnson gracing a bedroom wall in his childhood home in suburban Seattle.

Snyder, who was forced to resign as Missouri's head coach in February 2006, on Wednesday learned he will be replacing the late Johnson as head coach of the NBA Development League's Austin Toros. The 40-year-old Snyder said he has accepted a one-year contract to coach the team in the surging NBA minor league.

"I'm excited, but it is under bad circumstances and my heart goes out to his family," Snyder said of Johnson, who died suddenly at 52 on Feb. 22. "I grew up watching D.J."

Snyder was considered a rising star in the Division I coaching ranks, first as an assistant coach under Mike Krzyzewski at Duke and later when he was hired as head coach at Missouri. Snyder was 126-91 in seven seasons with the Tigers but only 42-42 in his final three, until he was forced out with two seasons remaining and seven games left in the 2005-06 season. Then-assistant Melvin Watkins finished out the season as coach, and that spring Missouri hired UAB coach Mike Anderson as Snyder's successor.

The tenure of Snyder, who led the Tigers to four NCAA Tournaments and an Elite Eight appearance in 2002, was marred by an NCAA investigation centering on Ricky Clemons. The former Missouri guard claimed he was paid by coaches at the university, and Snyder was named in 17 allegations between 1999 and 2004. Ultimately, Missouri avoided a postseason ban, was placed on three years' probation, and assistant coaches Lane Odom and Tony Harvey lost their jobs. Snyder, who at the time was ordered not to recruit off-campus for a year, reportedly received a buyout of $574,000 at the time of his firing.

Since leaving Missouri, Snyder said he has been traveling mostly and being somewhat nomadic.

"I came to the conclusion after looking at business stuff that I wanted to coach. That's my passion," Snyder said. "I'm excited about this opportunity. I missed the competition, the teaching and the coaching. This is a great opportunity for me."

Snyder said he isn't looking for the Toros job as a steppingstone to the NBA, which is exactly what the D-League is for its players. NBA teams are allowed to populate the D-League with their first and second-year players in the D-League. The 15-team league hopes to one day equal the NBA's 30-team membership.

"Quin has a tremendous upside and I see him one day, if he chooses this route, to be a head coach in the NBA," David Kahn, the former Indiana Pacers general manager who owns and operates the Austin franchise, said. "He's getting a chance to return to the roots of coaching basketball. We may have fewer games than the NBA but we have more practices."

Kahn said the team will be affiliated with the San Antonio Spurs and possibly the Boston Celtics. The Toros had been the affiliate of the Houston Rockets a year ago, Kahn said, but now that the D-League has a new team in the Rio Grande Valley, the Rockets are expected to be linked to it.

The Toros' season opens in November.

"I just want to coach, go to practices and play games. I'm not looking beyond that," Snyder said. "I'm just excited about the present. It's a new beginning for me in a place I really like."

Andy Katz is a senior writer for ESPN.com.



Really?:confused:

[Sublime 2]

Rondo and West are both Gil Arenas style guards, not really what you want for a point. And Conley can play defense.

Not that it really matters who they take, they're probably going to suck anyway.

I see no Arenas in Rondo. Rondo is no shoot first pg, he's def. about passing the rock and playing defense.

[Sublime 2]

dola

I'm pretty sure Ainge went on record as saying Rondo is their guy at PG. Not that that means a whole hell of a lot.

[Logan]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2895185



Really?:confused:

Are you fucking kidding me? "Upside" has progressed to describing coaches now?!

This world is screwed.

[Groundhog]

I don't see how the jury can be "out" on Rondo. He performed pretty well for a rookie IMO.

[Groundhog]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/draft2007/news/story?id=2894925&campaign=rss&source=NBAHeadlines

I think it's funny that what the article from draftexpress I posted back in post #2 of this thread said is coming true, as people instantly forget everything Durant did over the entire college season because he ranked behind such outstanding prospects as D.J. Strawberry and Demetris Nichols in the combine.

That says a lot more about the value of the pre-draft measurements than it does about the players measured IMO.

Like I said earlier, Andre Igoudala's vertical was measured just 1 inch greater than J.J. Reddick.

[Groundhog]

Interesting... Blazers are calling in Javaris Crittenton in for an individual workout on the day before the draft. They clearly won't be using the #1 on him and he figures to go late lottery at best and no worse than the 1st round, so why would they do this?

Speculation is that they have a trade worked out, and the current rumour is Jarrett Jack to Atlanta for the #11, which sounds like the kind of trade Atlanta would make. I think Jack took some big steps forward last season, but this is a deep draft and I don't know that you give up a #11 for him unless you are completely sure that the PGs in this class are not worth an #11. I'd argue that only Conley is a top 14 pick at PG as I think it's a bit of a Mateen Cleaves-esque reach to grab one of the others so early, so maybe if the Hawks don't take Conley at #3 and he's gone by #11 they make this trade based on need. Perhaps it might be better to grab the BPA who isn't a 6'8 wing, but it's hard to argue with the fact that the Hawks have needed a PG since, like, Mookie Blaylock hung up his sneakers.

It's probably all an unfounded rumour of course, but clearly the Blazers are exploring options to pick up a pick in the late lottery, given that they are also hosting Nick Young and Al Thornton, two other guys that figure to be taken around the #11ish pick.

[DeToxRox]

Rumored off-season deal:

To DET: Zach Randolph
To WAS: Rasheed Wallace
To POR: Antwan Jamison

Not sure how legitmate this could be but throwing it out there.

[JPhillips]

I don't like either Randolph or Wallace for the Wiz, but if they make a trade getting Randolph is way better than Wallace.

[Brian Swartz]

No way. Dumars isn't that stupid. And hopefully for their sake, Washington isn't that stupid either. Great deal for Portland obviously, but it's never gonna happen.

[Logan]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/draft2007/news/story?id=2894925&campaign=rss&source=NBAHeadlines

I think it's funny that what the article from draftexpress I posted back in post #2 of this thread said is coming true, as people instantly forget everything Durant did over the entire college season because he ranked behind such outstanding prospects as D.J. Strawberry and Demetris Nichols in the combine.

That says a lot more about the value of the pre-draft measurements than it does about the players measured IMO.

Like I said earlier, Andre Igoudala's vertical was measured just 1 inch greater than J.J. Reddick.

I was cracking up when I read that article earlier today. With what ridiculous criteria could you possibly rate SEVENTY SEVEN prospects above him?

Is this some sort of massive conspiracy orchestrated by Atlanta to get him to fall?

Shit like THIS is why the NBA is a joke.

[Atocep]

I was cracking up when I read that article earlier today. With what ridiculous criteria could you possibly rate SEVENTY SEVEN prospects above him?

Is this some sort of massive conspiracy orchestrated by Atlanta to get him to fall?

Shit like THIS is why the NBA is a joke.

Its the same workouts NBA teams put players through every year. He rated 78th because he finished almost dead last in every workout the players did. From what I've read the only red flag it's raised on Durant is work ethic, because there's no reason he should have worked out that poorly.

I don't see any conspiracy or anything out of the norm other than the fact the media caught onto this and ran with it. There's still no way he slips past #2.

[Groundhog]

I was cracking up when I read that article earlier today. With what ridiculous criteria could you possibly rate SEVENTY SEVEN prospects above him?

Is this some sort of massive conspiracy orchestrated by Atlanta to get him to fall?

Shit like THIS is why the NBA is a joke.

I think it's more to do with players just not having the same incentive at the NBA pre-draft workout as they do at the NFL, where a bad measurement can knock you out of being drafted on the first day pretty quickly.

Even so, it's surprising that people still take the NBA measurements seriously, as there is always at least one prospect who, while a borderline-2nd rounder pre-measurements, jumps up to the 1st round based on the 'enormous potential' revealed by these measurements.

[DeToxRox]

No way. Dumars isn't that stupid. And hopefully for their sake, Washington isn't that stupid either. Great deal for Portland obviously, but it's never gonna happen.

As a Pistons fan, I'd risk the temper and off the court nonsense of Randolphs for a legitimate post threat who averaged 23/10 last year. I don't sense it would ever happen but we lack any true toughness in the paint, and a guy like Randolph fits the mold potentially.

[Atocep]

As a Pistons fan, I'd risk the temper and off the court nonsense of Randolphs for a legitimate post threat who averaged 23/10 last year. I don't sense it would ever happen but we lack any true toughness in the paint, and a guy like Randolph fits the mold potentially.

Randolph is a poor fit for Detroit, though. He's a black hole. You give him the ball and he's putting up a shot. He will force the offense to run through him because of his unwillingness to pass the ball. He's also horrible defensively, so I don't think you'd be getting any toughness in the paint.

[DeToxRox]

Randolph is a poor fit for Detroit, though. He's a black hole. You give him the ball and he's putting up a shot. He will force the offense to run through him because of his unwillingness to pass the ball. He's also horrible defensively, so I don't think you'd be getting any toughness in the paint.

Well, I will agree there, I am just holding out hope playing on a team full of Vets would ease him out. Honestly, I'd much rather deal Sheed to the Knicks for a guy like David Lee as I also heard somewhere. Lee isnt very good defensivley but he plays hard and is a probably a 15/10 guy if he gets the minutes.

[Atocep]

Well, I will agree there, I am just holding out hope playing on a team full of Vets would ease him out. Honestly, I'd much rather deal Sheed to the Knicks for a guy like David Lee as I also heard somewhere. Lee isnt very good defensivley but he plays hard and is a probably a 15/10 guy if he gets the minutes.

Lee would be a good fit. I'm willing to bet Lee's defensive problems are technique and scheme rather than effort, like Randolph.

I think Rasheed needs to go. I think his meltdown in game 6 showed a lack of respect for his teammates and also showed that he's still pretty much the same guy he was in Portland. His All-Star appearances in Detroit have had more to do with the fact that he's a good player on the Eastern Conference's best team rather than how well he's played.

[DeToxRox]

Lee would be a good fit. I'm willing to bet Lee's defensive problems are technique and scheme rather than effort, like Randolph.

I think Rasheed needs to go. I think his meltdown in game 6 showed a lack of respect for his teammates and also showed that he's still pretty much the same guy he was in Portland. His All-Star appearances in Detroit have had more to do with the fact that he's a good player on the Eastern Conference's best team rather than how well he's played.

I'd agree. The hope with Randolph is he'd be close to Izzo who is the one guy who could control him, but unless Izzo is coaching the Pistons (which ain't happening) I don't see why that should play in.

[Groundhog]

I think Law is going to be a solid contributor right away. He's a four year guy who plays with attitude and has that aura about him where he wants the ball in his hands at the end of the game.

Take away Conleys tournament and what'd he really do?

FWIW, I agree with your take on Conley. I really like the kid, but like I said in the NCAA Tourney thread, I'd like to see him in college for at least another year. He's got great speed and I *think* he'll wind up a good NBA PG if he works on his shot, but in a draft as deep as this one it's hard to justify taking him top-5 as a "need" pick.

I didn't see Law play this year, but I liked what I saw of him in 2006 and most of what I've read about him has me liking him. Nbadraft.net has him around at 20, and to think that we'd be sitting at 24 with a possibility of getting a player of his calibre if not for a stupid Jiri Welsch trade is killing me.

[DeToxRox]

FWIW, I agree with your take on Conley. I really like the kid, but like I said in the NCAA Tourney thread, I'd like to see him in college for at least another year. He's got great speed and I *think* he'll wind up a good NBA PG if he works on his shot, but in a draft as deep as this one it's hard to justify taking him top-5 as a "need" pick.

I didn't see Law play this year, but I liked what I saw of him in 2006 and most of what I've read about him has me liking him. Nbadraft.net has him around at 20, and to think that we'd be sitting at 24 with a possibility of getting a player of his calibre if not for a stupid Jiri Welsch trade is killing me.

I agree, I think Conley will be a good PG down the line, but he won't be a guy to jump in and play awesomely.

Ford at ESPN has Law going 14 to the Clippers, one before the Pistons. I am hoping Detroit packages 14 and 28 to move up a few picks if he is available to land him as all signs point to Law being Dumars top choice.

[Sublime 2]

Ryen Russilo is saying that the Celtics and Wizards have inquired about the availability of Robert Swift.

[Groundhog]

Although Robert Swift put some good games together back in 05-06, man, I can't help but think it's just because nobody else on the court bothered to put a body on him.

Or maybe his ghostly complexion made him nearly impossible to see:

http://www.nba.com/media/act_robert_swift.jpg

[Logan]

Ryen Russilo is saying that the Celtics and Wizards have inquired about the availability of Robert Swift.

Anything that would solicit 1500 words out of Bill Simmons makes me happy.

[RedKingGold]

http://www.nba.com/media/act_robert_swift.jpg

Two things stuck out to me from this photo:

1. I really do not want to see up his shorts, thank you very much.
2. Where is that Blazer dude's left hand?

[Atocep]

Although Robert Swift put some good games together back in 05-06, man, I can't help but think it's just because nobody else on the court bothered to put a body on him.


I still remember him as the guy that was drafted #12 overall without doing a single workout or interview.

[stevew]

I still remember him as the guy that was drafted #12 overall without doing a single workout or interview.

Eh, my team took Luke Jackson at #10 in that draft, so even with his huge body of work(4 years in college) they still missed hard. Swift might be a decent center, it's too hard to say though. But some of those guys taken in the teens are going to be pretty damn good(Jefferson, Smith, etc).

[Gary Gorski]

Well, I will agree there, I am just holding out hope playing on a team full of Vets would ease him out. Honestly, I'd much rather deal Sheed to the Knicks for a guy like David Lee as I also heard somewhere. Lee isnt very good defensivley but he plays hard and is a probably a 15/10 guy if he gets the minutes.

I would gladly take David Lee in a trade for Sheed. Wallace is one of the most talented players in the league...when he wants to be and the problem is that he doesn't want to be that on most nights and seems to have reverted to the old Sheed in the past two years or so. Not only that but his attitude seems to have worn off on especially Hamilton but Prince and Billups as well. They accounted for 25 T's this year - more than double the combined 12 they had when Sheed first got here not to mention the increased complaining and whining from them. Don't get me wrong - without the trade for Wallace, Detroit doesn't get the ring they did but the honeymoon's been over for quite some time now and it's time to move him along. Lee averaged a double double coming off the bench for New York - he would be a tremendous addition.

[Logan]

I'm pretty sure even Isiah wouldn't trade Lee for Rasheed.

[Sublime 2]

Nothing to earth shattering but it appears the celtics top 6 list is: Wright, Horford, Yi, Jeff Green, Brewer, and Al Thornton.

[DeToxRox]

Chris Sharidan is reporting the Pistons want Amare and are potentially looking at offering Sheed and Rip for him. Not sure how I feel about that as I am not a big Amare fan but definelty like him more then Randolph.

[Eaglesfan27]

Chris Sharidan is reporting the Pistons want Amare and are potentially looking at offering Sheed and Rip for him. Not sure how I feel about that as I am not a big Amare fan but definelty like him more then Randolph.


I would think there is zero chance that Phoenix would make that trade.

[bulletsponge]

I'm pretty sure even Isiah wouldn't trade Lee for Rasheed.


Agreed. Isiah would throw in a first rounder too boot

[Atocep]

I would think there is zero chance that Phoenix would make that trade.

I agree. I don't think either are a good fit for what Phoenix does. Well, maybe Sheed is when motivated, but he hasn't been motivated since he won a title.

[DeToxRox]

I agree. I don't think either are a good fit for what Phoenix does. Well, maybe Sheed is when motivated, but he hasn't been motivated since he won a title.

I'd agree, tho' Sheed would probably have to be involved for salaries to match. I've heard Tayshaun & Rip for Marion too, which I'd much rather see. It'll be interesting.

[Arles]

The Suns don't *have* to trade Marion, unless they are getting better. Excerpt from AZ Republic:


A recent ESPN report said Sarver issued a mandate to take $8 million off the payroll. The Suns are facing about that much in a 2008 luxury tax if the payroll doesn't change.

"We don't have a mandate for anything," Sarver said. "Our payroll is going to end up in the upper group of NBA franchises. Exactly where it ends up partly is going to depend on what opportunities exist for us. We're going to be financially prudent, but we've been fortunate with good support from the fans and had good increases in revenue."

It was just reported that the Suns made $35 million with a $66 million dollar payroll last season. Why would they then need to dump Marion to keep the payroll under $70 million? If they want to save a little cash, they could package Banks, James Jones and their #29 pick to a team with cap space for a 2nd round pick. Still, even if they go into the season in the $75 million area, they would still make over $20 million after the tax.

The only way the Suns move Marion or Amare is if they get better. I can't see that happening with Amare and there are only a couple options that would do that for Marion (KG, Lewis+Wilcox, G.Wallace, Bulls or maybe Memphis). There is no deal Phoenix could do with Detroit involving Marion or Amare that would make them better. So, I don't see how one would happen. The Suns aren't the 1998 Marlins.

[Brian Swartz]

'Getting better' isn't a matter of raw talent evaluation. Marion's problem is that he wants to be more than the third option behind Nash and Stoudemire, and he tends to disappear offensively when Amare is on the floor. Personally I think if you ignore all other considerations and swap Tayshaun Prince and Marion, the Suns get better immediately. No, I don't think Prince is a better player, but it would make Phoenix a better team. Marion is also a guy who is much more energized defensively and on the boards when he is more involved offensively, so that hurts as well.

I think Phoenix needs to decide on a style and stick with it -- i.e., if they are going to run and gun, then leave Kurt Thomas on the bench because Marion plays much better at the 4 than he does at the 3. In that case you want to get the best SF you can find to upgrade.

As far the Amare trade, I don't see how it doesn't fit for Phoenix. If they have a lineup of Nash/Bell/Hamilton/Marion/R. Wallace ... I think that fits very well with what they do -- all five guys on the floor can hit the 3, and if the other team goes small Wallace can post up. If you want to go all scoring all the time like they do, no question that lineup can get it done(and of that five, you've got a great defender in Marion, very good one in Bell, while Hamilton and Wallace are good defenders as well). Depends on Sheeds motivation of course, but if its there and I think it would be playing for D'Antoni, could work out well.

[Arles]

Losing Amare for Sheed would be horrible. You're taking away a 24-year old averaging 20-10 with 58% shooting (58% eFG) and replacing him with a 32-year old averaging 12-7 with 42% shooting (48% eFG). Plus, Amare's jumpshot eFG% is very close (44%) to Sheed's (46%) and Amare is a much more dominant inside force. Prince for Marion is closer, but Marion is still a much better player in nearly every category (outside of 3s). You are basically talking about swapping two All-NBA players for a solid player in prince and a 32-year old hot-head on the downswing in his career. Plus, you say Marion "tends to disappear offensively when Amare is on the floor". According to 82 games.com, Marion played over 80% of his minutes with Amare and he put up almost 18 PPG on 52% shooting. I wish more players on the Suns would "disappear offensively" like that.

As to the second point of Nash/Hamilton/Bell/Marion/Wallace being better, I don't see it. The problem is Sheed is on the downswing and nowhere near the post presence of Amare and that lineup is very small. You have 5 jumpshooters on the floor with two more (Barbs, Diaw) coming off the bench. You basically have the 06-07 Chicago Bulls with that lineup (Heinrich-Gordon-Nocioni-Deng-Wallace). I don't see that being better than a more balanced attack of Nash-Bell-Marion-Amare-Thomas. Now, I would consider a Marion/Jones for Hamilton/Wallace type deal. That would give you Nash-Bell-Hamilton-Amare-Wallace.

If the Suns want to get better, they should move Kurt Thomas (expiring), James Jones ($2.8m) and the #24 pick to Denver for Camby. Then, they could have Nash-Bell-Marion-Amare-Camby. Denver would save almost $20 million, give them a strong rotation guy who shoots 38% from 3 (and can play 2-4), another first round pick and a solid replacement for the season in KT.

[stevew]

Amare has 32 year old knees. Keep that in mind.

[Arles]

Amare has 32 year old knees. Keep that in mind.
I don't know, he had one of least serious microfracture procedures (the area was the size of a dime) on one knee at the age of 23. This isn't Penny, Houston or K-Mart having a much more serious procedure at the age of 28-31. Heck, it was significantly less invasive/serious than the surgery Kidd had in his late 20s.

He didn't miss a game all season, put up very good numbers and was explosive. I think that all rational signs point to Amare being a very good to great player for another 8-10 seasons.

All that said, stevew's comments are exactly why Amare won't be traded. You can't get fair market for a guy coming off microfracture.

[Brian Swartz]

Losing Amare for Sheed would be horrible. You're taking away a 24-year old averaging 20-10 with 58% shooting (58% eFG) and replacing him with a 32-year old averaging 12-7 with 42% shooting (48% eFG). Plus, Amare's jumpshot eFG% is very close (44%) to Sheed's (46%) and Amare is a much more dominant inside force. Prince for Marion is closer, but Marion is still a much better player in nearly every category (outside of 3s). You are basically talking about swapping two All-NBA players for a solid player in prince and a 32-year old hot-head on the downswing in his career.

I think you misunderstood. I was saying Amare for Sheed AND Rip was a good trade. Amare for Sheed? No way. Yes Amare is a better inside force and more explosive. He is also a considerably inferior defender and Sheed makes it impossible for the opposing shotblockers(say, Duncan for example) to camp out in the lane on defense.

You're still doing the x + y = z raw talent evaluation and that's not the way to look at it. The way to look at is how good is Phoenix now, and how good can they be after the trade. The Amare trade gives them the ability to leave Kurt Thomas on the bench, allow Marion to play the 4 as he should, and a much, much better weapon at the 3. With Nash and Marion, you don't need a post prescence because those guys can get into the lane whenever they want to ... it doesn't matter how you get there and free up shooters as long as you can do it.

The problem is Sheed is on the downswing and nowhere near the post presence of Amare and that lineup is very small.

Phoenix doesn't have the option of building for the future ... Nash is 33. You either win a title now or you don't win a title. Secondly, the lineup I mentioned isn't any smaller than what the Suns have now ... Nash/Bell/Jones/Marion/Stoudemire. Furthermore they've never really concerned themselves all that much with being small, it's the style they play.

If the Suns want to get better, they should move Kurt Thomas (expiring), James Jones ($2.8m) and the #24 pick to Denver for Camby. Then, they could have Nash-Bell-Marion-Amare-Camby. Denver would save almost $20 million, give them a strong rotation guy who shoots 38% from 3 (and can play 2-4), another first round pick and a solid replacement for the season in KT.

No way Denver makes that trade, Iverson would go ballistic and be justified.

[JeeberD]

Son of a bitch! Apparently the Rockets are thinking about bringing in Ron Artest... :mad: :(

http://insider.espn.go.com/espn/blog/index?entryID=2897870&name=ford_chad


One possible destination for Ron Artest this summer? Houston, to be reunited with his former coach Rick Adelman.

I'm told the Rockets have been quietly putting out feelers about Artest, and the price might be right. I hear it would cost the Rockets Bob Sura (he has only $1 million in salary protection next year), Kirk Snyder, Vasilis Spanoulis and this year's first-round draft pick.

With Artest entering a player option year on his contract in the summer of 2008, it may be time to take the risk.

[bulletsponge]

Son of a bitch! Apparently the Rockets are thinking about bringing in Ron Artest... :mad: :(

http://insider.espn.go.com/espn/blog/index?entryID=2897870&name=ford_chad


One possible destination for Ron Artest this summer? Houston, to be reunited with his former coach Rick Adelman.

I'm told the Rockets have been quietly putting out feelers about Artest, and the price might be right. I hear it would cost the Rockets Bob Sura (he has only $1 million in salary protection next year), Kirk Snyder, Vasilis Spanoulis and this year's first-round draft pick.

With Artest entering a player option year on his contract in the summer of 2008, it may be time to take the risk.


as much as adding a talent like Artest to the team could put them over the top, i cant help but feel like im about to get kicked in the nuts by a man in wingtips. the guy is nothin but trouble, even if you can get him cheap.

btw what did he get in trouble for while he was in sacremento? im possitive he did get in trouble there even if i didnt hear about it. btw didnt the Rockets learn from Bonzi "asshat" Wells

[JeeberD]

And apparently Artest and Bonzi are tight, so if we brought him in Bonzi would probably stick around for his second year...

[bulletsponge]

And apparently Artest and Bonzi are tight, so if we brought him in Bonzi would probably stick around for his second year...

http://www.smileyhut.com/angry/swear.gif

[Groundhog]

Points of interest in Draftexpress.com's latest mock draft:

Celtics take Joakim Noah at #5. I really don't see this happening.
Bucks take Conley at #6. If they don't think they can bring Mo back, this pick makes a lot of sense.
Bobcats take Corey Brewer at #8. Bye-bye Gerald Wallace? Could be a steal at #8.
King take Yi Jianlian at #10. My condolonces Kings fans. :(
Hawks take Acie Law at #11. I like this pick. Law is a pretty good consolation prize for Conley IMO.
Wizards take Jason Smith at #16. Smith to me sounds like one of those guys that come from nowhere to get hyped up just before draft, and then when they report to camp they end up being the player that everyone thought they were prior to the predraft camp - ie. a borderline talent.
Nets take Josh McRoberts at #17. I think he'll be a good pickup in the late teens.
Jazz take Jared Dudley at #25. I really hope this happens. The Jazz are usually great at picking up late-round rookies who can work in their system and contribute early. Dudley fits.
Spurs take Aaron Gray at #28. I could see this happening. Gray has the tools to play spot-minutes in the Spurs system right away IMO.
Suns take Taurean Green at #29. I think Green will go 1st round, but not to Phoenix.
Sixers take Sean William at #30. Does this guy really deserve a first round pick? Great college-level shotblocker, but he doesn't do anything else. Reminds me of that guy who played in the middle at Ohio State back when Scoonie and Redd were on campus, with more athleticism to be sure, but still a long way off being a 1st round draft prospect.

[Sublime 2]

According to some ppl, there is a legitimate rumor of Theo Ratliff, some player (Ryan Gomes or Delonte West maybe?), and a future first for Rashard Lewis S&T. Certainly an upgrade for the Celtics, especially if they end up keeping #5.

[Groundhog]

According to some ppl, there is a legitimate rumor of Theo Ratliff, some player (Ryan Gomes or Delonte West maybe?), and a future first for Rashard Lewis S&T. Certainly an upgrade for the Celtics, especially if they end up keeping #5.

Not sure why the Sonics would make that deal, but that would give the Celtics: Rondo-Pierce-Lewis-Jefferson-Perkins, plus a lotto pick to come, presumably Conley or Wright. Not a bad lineup, but I can't see them playing much perimeter D.

The Sonics would probably be better to just let Lewis walk.

[Sublime 2]

Not sure why the Sonics would make that deal, but that would give the Celtics: Rondo-Pierce-Lewis-Jefferson-Perkins, plus a lotto pick to come, presumably Conley or Wright. Not a bad lineup, but I can't see them playing much perimeter D.

The Sonics would probably be better to just let Lewis walk.

Well I guess it's just the whole "can't let him walk for nothing" philosophy. A future first and a solid roleplayer isn't to bad if your expecting nothing. I'm sure this is one of 10-15 rumors that will be floated in the offseason, especially with Theo's expiring deal.

[stevew]

According to some ppl, there is a legitimate rumor of Theo Ratliff, some player (Ryan Gomes or Delonte West maybe?), and a future first for Rashard Lewis S&T. Certainly an upgrade for the Celtics, especially if they end up keeping #5.

Taking back Ratliff and a player, plus paying Durant, and then filling out their roster puts the sonics dangerously close to the luxury tax limit next year. Just looking at their contracts, it would seem that they would want to be sending out someone like Earl Watson, along w/ a resigned Lewis to make a deal work for them money wise.

[Arles]

According to some ppl, there is a legitimate rumor of Theo Ratliff, some player (Ryan Gomes or Delonte West maybe?), and a future first for Rashard Lewis S&T. Certainly an upgrade for the Celtics, especially if they end up keeping #5.
This deal makes no sense unless Seattle gets #5. You'd basically be paying $12 million next season for Gomes or West (Ratliff won't play) and a future 1st. That's a ton of cash for an average player. Seattle would be better off simply offering Matt Barnes a part of the MLE than paying big money (in essence) for Gomes.

[DeToxRox]

As per Joe Dumars on the radio

The asking price for Marion is two starters and both Pistons firsts.

Needless to say Dumars isn't going through with it.

[Groundhog]

Artest to Portland in some kind of deal involving Randolph? That's yet another rumour out there. I could see this one happening talent-wise, but do the Blazers really want to give up one headache to gain another?

[Groundhog]

With the drafting of Oden, Portland has immense low post depth. They would be getting rid of a headache at a position where he is redundant for a headache who plays great perimeter defense, isn't a black hole in the offense, and may be on his best behavior during his first year there. I wouldn't do it if I were them, but at least it makes sense from the basketball side of things.

I absolutely agree that from a basketball point of view it's a good deal for them, but I think the Blazers have worked hard to improve their image from the days of Jailblazers, so I don't know that they'd swing this.

Maybe a sign and trade with Seattle for Lewis?

[Ksyrup]

Saw this on CNN, but hadn't heard about it. Seems like an odd place to make such a cryptic, off the cuff statement:

Buss hinting of Kobe departure (http://www.fannation.com/truth_and_rumors/view/6301)

Posted: Tuesday June 12, 2007 09:55AM ET

Johnny Buss, the oldest son of Lakers (http://www.fannation.com/tags/show_tag/4553) owner Jerry Buss, sent a bulletin to friends on his MySpace.com page that contained a peculiar reference to the team's nine-time All-Star. 'If you've been following the Kobe drama, I want to let you know it's not really drama -- sometimes we all need to make a change in our lives and that's all it is,' Buss wrote. 'Popular or unpopular, when it's time, it's time. Good luck Kobe wherever you go!"

[bulletsponge]

Saw this on CNN, but hadn't heard about it. Seems like an odd place to make such a cryptic, off the cuff statement:

Buss hinting of Kobe departure (http://www.fannation.com/truth_and_rumors/view/6301)

Posted: Tuesday June 12, 2007 09:55AM ET

Johnny Buss, the oldest son of Lakers (http://www.fannation.com/tags/show_tag/4553) owner Jerry Buss, sent a bulletin to friends on his MySpace.com page that contained a peculiar reference to the team's nine-time All-Star. 'If you've been following the Kobe drama, I want to let you know it's not really drama -- sometimes we all need to make a change in our lives and that's all it is,' Buss wrote. 'Popular or unpopular, when it's time, it's time. Good luck Kobe wherever you go!"

oohh crap. the sports shows are going to circle-j**k over this

[Ksyrup]

But that was yesterday morning...you'd think they would be all over it by now.

[bulletsponge]

because they are all middle aged dudes, they dont know what myspace is. trust me once they hear of this they will be all over it

[Neon_Chaos]

I hope that if he does get traded, he goes straight to the East.

[Neuqua]

Bulls worked out Conley today, word is Duhon is going to be on the trading block.

[Chief Rum]

But that was yesterday morning...you'd think they would be all over it by now.

They have been. It was talked about all day yesterday. Of course, this is LA.

[JeeberD]

Juwan Howard out, Mike James back in...

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2903593

I'm not sure what to think...I was never as big a Mike James fan as some Rox fans are.

[Groundhog]

Juwan Howard out, Mike James back in...

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2903593

I'm not sure what to think...I was never as big a Mike James fan as some Rox fans are.

Kind of a 'meh' trade, though I'd probably prefer Howard on my roster than James. I guess it gives the Rockets a guy who can hit threes, but something about James rubs me the wrong way.

[miami_fan]

Kind of a 'meh' trade, though I'd probably prefer Howard on my roster than James. I guess it gives the Rockets a guy who can hit threes, but something about James rubs me the wrong way.

I guess this is the first step to getting smaller and quicker. James is a PG who shoots a bit too much for my personal taste.

[k0ruptr]

James shoots too much for a pg and doesnt make enough either. I really don't like him as a pg.

[JeeberD]

I guess this is the first step to getting smaller and quicker. James is a PG who shoots a bit too much for my personal taste.

Rafer v2, in other words. Great... :rolleyes:

[Ryche]

Good luck with James in Houston, he was a disaster for the Twolves last year. Basically ended up a scoring point guard who couldn't shoot. At best I think he could be an effective sparkplug as a third guard. Maybe playing at home will help his game. If nothing else Howard gives Minnesota a functional forward off the bench.

[Groundhog]

Groundhog's 2007 NBA Mock Draft

9 days to go now, and I think it's at the point where it's possible to try and take a stab at it because I don't think team's opinions are going to change a whole heap, even though there are still plenty of visits going on.

Format is pick #, team name, my selection, and then in brackets it's draftexpress/nbadraft.net's selection at the same spot in their current mocks.

1. Portland Trailblazers - C Greg Oden (Oden/Oden)
The no-brainer pick.
2. Seattle Supersonics - SF Kevin Durant (Durant/Durant)
The other no-brainer pick. Despite Durant apparently being the worst athlete tested at the pre-draft camp, he's certainty picked up here, even if Rashard Lewis is NOT a free agent after all (according to an article released today).
3. Atlanta Hawks - PF Brandan Wright (Wright/Hortford)
Hawks really need a PG, but I don't think they can pass on Wright, and it's a bit of a reach to take Conley here. I doubt very much that they'll take Hortford given that they drafted Shelden last season. Wright has star potential, where as Hortford is probably destined to be a very good role player at best.
4. Memphis Grizzlies - PF Al Hortford (Hortford/B.Wright)
Grizzlies could use help in the frontcourt and backcourt, but again it's probably too soon for Conley, so they should take either Wright or Hortford in that order, depending on who is still around.
5. Boston Celtics - PG Mike Conley (Noah/Jianlian)
Boston could do any number of things here. They apparently like Noah, but I'm thinking they'll grab Conley, even if it is probably a few picks too early. They could either keep him, or move down a few spots through a trade to say Atlanta for their next pick+a player. Might be wiser to keep him though, and a lot depends on what they decided to do via trades, with even the acquisition of Garnett a rumour.
6. Milwaukee Bucks - SF Corey Brewer (Conley/Brewer)
Conley is a real chance here if he's still on the board, but if he's not then Brewer is a good consolation prize. With all the scorers the Bucks have (when healthy, at least), Brewer should slot in nicely as a guy who can play a little D and run in transition.
7. Minnesota TWolves - SF Jeff Green (Hawes/Green)
I was thinking it'd be Noah or Hawes, but the addition of Juwan Howard might see them look to the wings instead, and Green would give them a guy who should ensure that Trenton Hassell isn't lining up as the team's starting SF next season, which would be a very good thing.
8. Charlotte Bobcats - C Spencer Hawes (Brewer/Noah)
I think their preference will be Brewer, Hawes, or Noah, in that order. Hawes gives them a big body, but he's probably a few seasons away from playing big minutes.
9. Chicago Bulls - PF/SF Yi Jianlian (Jianlian/J.Wright)
Bulls could also go a few different ways, with guys like Noah, Brewer, J. Wright, Conley, et al all possibilities, but I think they'll be the ones to bite on Yianlian if he's still around. I have a bad feeling about this guy, but the league scouts probably know better… right? Apparently his stock has taken a hit lately, so if he's not grabbed by now he could be on the board till the mid-teens.
10. Sacramento Kings - PF/C Joakim Noah (Green/Thornton)
Noah could easily go 5 spots higher, but I think his limitations might drop him to the fringe of the top-10. He has energy and enthusiasm, but I'm not sure that that will be enough at this level. Still, I'll be rooting for him, as I have to admit that I admired his passion when watching Florida the past couple of seasons.
11. Atlanta Hawks - PG Acie Law (Law/Conley)
I don't think there is any way in hell that Conley will still be around here, but if he is, then there preference should be Conley or Law, in that order. If Law isn't picked up here he could fall down to the 20s, thanks largely to some unflattering Troy Bell comparisons that keep getting thrown about. Hawks might elect to go for BPA instead, picking up Thornton, Julian Wright, or might even decide to take a chance on the taller PG Javaris Crittenton. I'm thinking they'll play it safe with Law or Conley though. A trade is another possibility, and a rumour about this pick being traded to Portland for Jarrett Jack has been around a while now.
12. Philadelphia Sixers - PF Jason Smith (J.Wright/Hawes)
I think the Sixers might go for a reach pick here, because they need height, and guys like Smith or McRoberts might not be the BPA, but they won't be around when the Sixers pick again at #22. I'm not too keen on Smith, but he's been getting hyped the past few weeks, and seems like this could be a possibility for him.
13. New Orleans Hornets - SF Julian Wright (N.Young/T.Young)
BPA. Wright could go as high as #7, so getting him here would be a nice move for the Hornets.
14. LA Clippers - SG/PG Rodney Stuckey (Thornton/Crittenton)
A lot of options for the Clippers here, but I think they'd be mad to not go with a backcourt player. Their most dire need is PG, and while Stuckey isn't a pure PG, but he's a small-school baller who has been getting Dwayne Wade comparisons, and could make the switch. It's a higher risk selection than Crittenton, but also with a potentially higher payout.
15. Detroit Pistons - PG Javaris Crittenton (Stuckey/Stuckey)
Billups is a FA, and Crittenton gives them a little bit of insurance. He's not ready to play big minutes from day one though, and would be better served backing up a re-signed Billups for a few years.
16. Washington Wizards - PF Tiago Splitter (Smith/Byars)
I've been seeing this guys name in mock drafts for what seems like a decade, but it's finally the year he gets selected. Wizards will probably look for size, and it might come down to Jason Smith, Tiago Splitter, or Josh McRoberts, in that order.
17. New Jersey Nets - SF/PF Al Thornton (McRoberts/Smith)
In the possibility that Thornton falls to #17, I don't think the Nets could pass him up, despite their need of a PF/C type. Thornton was highly touted a few weeks ago, so he is either dropping due to lack of interest, or teams around this slot of the draft are keeping quiet in the hope that he'll slide.
18. Golden State Warriors - PF Josh McRoberts (Splitter/Fernandez)
McRoberts was a lottery pick candidate last season, so the Warriors would probably be pretty happy picking him up at #18. He has the athleticism to play the Warriors style of basketball.
19. LA Lakers - SG/SF Nick Young (McRoberts/Smith)
Young is a guy that can put points on the board, and should be able to help Kobe out a little with his shooting touch. Could easily go 7-8 spots higher, so would be a great selection here.
20. Miami Heat - SG Daequan Cook (Young/Law)
Cook is a bit raw but has the talent to wind up being a steal at #20. The Heat might prefer a player a little more able to step in straight away, like Morris Almond or even Thaddeus Young if he's still available.
21. Philadelphia Sixers - SF Thaddeus Young(Fernandez/Cook)
BPA. Young's stock is hurt by this being a deep draft, especially with guys like Young, Green and Wright all in the mix and probably ranked above him.
22. Charlotte Bobcats - SG Rudy Fernandez (Almond/Splitter)
A great draft to have multiple first-rounders, and Fernandez is yet another guy who could easily go much higher than this. He draws comparisons with Manu and is, by all reports, a passionate and intelligent player with a great shooting touch.
23. New York Knicks - C Sean Williams (S.Williams/McRoberts)
Thomas has said that he doesn't give a damn about mock drafts and will take whichever player he wants at this spot. As much flak as I (along with everyone else) give Thomas, he has been pretty decent in the draft, and I'm expecting a surprise here. Wilson Chandler has been rumoured, but I think it's just way too high for him here, though the same was true of Balkman last year. I don't think there's any chance of them grabbing a guard, so it'll either be a forward or a C, and I think draftexpress may have hit the nail on the head with Sean Williams. Much, much too high for this poor-man's Theo Ratliff IMO, but it makes sense to me from an Isaiah Thomas mindset.
24. Phoenix Suns - C Kyrylo Fesenko (Cook/Belinelli)
Everyone has the Suns going with a backcourt guy, but I think they'll be looking for some size. They could opt to pick the BPA as well, or plan around what they intend to do with trades and signings in the offseason, but I think Fesenko is a good prospect, even if this is probably higher than he is expected to go. He has size, isn't a stiff, and would probably be able to give the Suns a couple of minutes a game straight away.
25. Utah Jazz - SF Jared Dudley (Belinelli/Pruitt)
I think this is a good fit, but in truth the Jazz have a lot of options and this is a hard one to make a guess at. There are a ton of wing players available, and any one of them could end up here. I think Dudley is a guy who could step right in and contribute in the Jazz system, but they may take a gamble on a younger and more athletic player.
26. Houston Rockets - PF Nick Fazekas (Fazekas/Afflalo)
The Draftexpress selection seems to make sense to me. Fazekas has size which will be a need now that Howard is gone, but the question will be whether he's strong enough to play at this level. Rockets could elect to go with one of the guards still available, but I think they should probably look big due to need.
27. Detroit Pistons - SG Marco Belinelli (Byars/Brooks)
If they don't pick up a PG at #15 the Pistons will almost certainly grab either Brooks or Green here, but if they do then I'm thinking it'll be BPA, coming down to Belinelli, Byars, or Almond.
28. San Antonio Spurs - C Aaron Gray (Dudley/Koponen)
Much like the Utah selection, this is one that makes sense to me. I think Gray would work very well in the Spurs system with his passing ability, but again the Spurs may elect to just take the BPA. Gray is a 2nd rounder on a lot of mock drafts, but I think his combination of size and smarts makes him a 1st round talent.
29. Phoenix Suns - SG/SF Derrick Byars (Koponen/Dudley)
BPA. Suns might go Euro here if they don't with their earlier selection, but if not it should be Byars, Almond, Pruitt, or maybe even the shooter Demetris Nichols.
30. Philadelphia Sixers - PG Taurean Green (Green/S.Williams)
Third 1st rounder of this deep draft, and the Sixers still find themselves with plenty of options. Presuming they grab a big with their first selection and a swingman with the second, I'm thinking Taurean Green is a real possibility here, because I just don't think that Louis Williams has shown that he is a legit backup in this league, where as Green might be capable of backing up Andre Miller from day one. Pruitt or Koponen are likely other selections here if either is still available, but I don't see Green slipping out of the first round. If he does, he'd be a Chris Duhon-esque steal in the 2nd IMO.

Other Potential First Rounders

In rough order: SG/SF Morris Almond, PG Gabe Pruitt, PG Petteri Koponen, SG/SF Arron Afflalo, SF/PF Wilson Chandler, SF Demetris Nichols, SF Alando Tucker, SG/SF Marcus Williams, PF Glen Davis.

Any of these guys could sneak in, where as Almond, Pruitt, and Koponen in particular could go as high as the late teens. It's definitely a deep draft, and I'm very disappointed that the Cavs have no selections at all.

[stevew]

I think Splitter will not go in the first round because of his buyout issues this year(not coming over til 08-09), and as well of the fact that he will be taking a large paycut most likely to play for teens/twenties type of NBA slotted money. If he goes in the 2nd, a team could possibly give him a large enough deal to buy out his contract by using the MLE(larger contract w/ a signing bonus to pay off his buyout), or they could use their MLE the following year and sign him for 2-3 million a year....which would be more than his Euro deal.

[Neuqua]

I have a feeling the Bulls are going to make some kind of move that isn't expected. I don't see them taking Yi, he just doesn't seem like the kidn of player that Paxson and Skiles are looking for. Last year, they traded up and out of no where grabbed Thabo which turned out to be a great move for us, and I think this year something similar will happen. We won't be trading up from 9, but I see us maybe trading down and grabbing another "asset" which Pax loves to horde.

[RedKingGold]

I think a team at the bottom of the 1st round will take a stab at Big Baby. He can be a dominant player or the next Tractor Traylor. I guess we'll see.

[RedKingGold]

dola

If the Sixers take who you (Groundhog) think they will, I think I'll vomit.

Hopefully, the team can package two of its picks to move up into the top seven.

[stevew]

I think a team at the bottom of the 1st round will take a stab at Big Baby. He can be a dominant player or the next Tractor Traylor. I guess we'll see.

Who?

[Neuqua]

Who?

I am assuming he means Glenn "Big Baby" Davis from LSU.

[RedKingGold]

I am assuming he means Glenn "Big Baby" Davis from LSU.

Yup

[MrBug708]

I'd be ecstatic if Nic Young is around at the 19th pick.

As for anything to do with Kobe, I think it's best to get the most value for him regardless of what conference he is in. The Lakers passed up a trade of Howard, Nash, and Jamison for Shaq. The Lakers can get much more value for Kobe if he goes to the Suns. Sure he'll torch you 4 times a year, but better to win 50+ games and face Kobe 4 times then face him twice a year and win 35 games

[Groundhog]

I think Splitter will not go in the first round because of his buyout issues this year(not coming over til 08-09), and as well of the fact that he will be taking a large paycut most likely to play for teens/twenties type of NBA slotted money. If he goes in the 2nd, a team could possibly give him a large enough deal to buy out his contract by using the MLE(larger contract w/ a signing bonus to pay off his buyout), or they could use their MLE the following year and sign him for 2-3 million a year....which would be more than his Euro deal.

I wasn't aware about this, and it surprises me because he is still ranked as a mid-1st rounder by most mocks out there, including draftexpress who are probably the mock I have the most faith in.

[Groundhog]

I have a feeling the Bulls are going to make some kind of move that isn't expected. I don't see them taking Yi, he just doesn't seem like the kidn of player that Paxson and Skiles are looking for. Last year, they traded up and out of no where grabbed Thabo which turned out to be a great move for us, and I think this year something similar will happen. We won't be trading up from 9, but I see us maybe trading down and grabbing another "asset" which Pax loves to horde.

The problem with Yi is that someone is going to take him, yet he doesn't really seem the kind of player that any of the teams picking high are looking for. I also have a very strong feeling that the Bulls are going to part with their pick via a trade-down though. This is a good draft to do it.

[Arles]

FYI, the Suns had Fesenko in for a workout and had little interest in him (according to the AZ republic):

Griffin, comparing Fesenko's workout to that of Jake Tsakalidis, questioned whether his half-court style fits the Suns.

Mike D likes big guys that can run the floor and, according to the workout report, you could time his full court sprint with a sundial.

IMO, the Suns will trade away #29 to save money and keep #24 to draft either SG Marco Belinelli or PF Nick Fazekas.

[Atocep]

IMO, the Suns will trade away #29 to save money and keep #24 to draft either SG Marco Belinelli or PF Nick Fazekas.

Another route that I have read the Sixers are also considering is drafting a guy like Splitter or another foreign prospect, letting him play elsewhere for a year or 2 to save money now, then bringing him over if they feel he's ready.

[Sublime 2]

I'm still pretty sure the Celtics won't take a pg. Rondo and West is more than adequate, what the Celt's really need is a big man to put next to Big Al or a defensive wing like Brewer. Noah is a hell of a hustler, but I can't see them taking him at 5...Horford is the prize after the first 2, but he's gone to Atl or Memphis. So I think that leaves: Yi, Brewer, Green, and Wright.

[Atocep]

I've read that Atlanta has locked onto Horford and are probably going to take him because they like his ability to contribute now and upside. Memphis reportedly has their decision down to Conley or Noah. I don't think Noah is top-5 material so they could end up taking Conley. That leaves Brewer or Yi for Boston and I'd be suprised if they didn't grab Brewer.

This is an interesting draft. There seems to be a very solid consensus on who the top 12 are going to be, but no one knows what order because 3-12 are so close. After the top 12 there's another 25 or so guys with first round grades, but they're all pretty close as well. Guys like Thaddeus and Nick Young would probably be in the top 10 in most years, this year they'll be lucky if they make the top 15-18.

[Groundhog]

I've read that Atlanta has locked onto Horford and are probably going to take him because they like his ability to contribute now and upside. Memphis reportedly has their decision down to Conley or Noah. I don't think Noah is top-5 material so they could end up taking Conley. That leaves Brewer or Yi for Boston and I'd be suprised if they didn't grab Brewer.

If Atlanta don't take Wright they are fools IMO, which probably means that they won't. If they do take Horford, I'd imagine Grizz would take Wright over Conley. The biggest factors that will determine how screwy this draft gets early on are Atlanta, and the trio of big guys Yi/Noah/Hawes.

This is an interesting draft. There seems to be a very solid consensus on who the top 12 are going to be, but no one knows what order because 3-12 are so close. After the top 12 there's another 25 or so guys with first round grades, but they're all pretty close as well. Guys like Thaddeus and Nick Young would probably be in the top 10 in most years, this year they'll be lucky if they make the top 15-18.

I think there's a legit 45ish players who could go in the first round, and probably 35 first round talents when compared with your average drafts. As you say, it's shocking that guys like Young, Thaddeus, Thornton and maybe even Julian Wright can slip right down to the late teens or early 20s. Most drafts these guys are maybe early-to-mid lottery selections.

It's definately a swingman draft though, being a little light on major talent PGs and, outside of the top 6 or so picks, starting quality bigmen.

[JeeberD]

Just say no to Fa-weak-ass, k thx...

[MrBug708]

Just say no to Fa-weak-ass, k thx...

I'd love to have him on the Lakers personally. When it comes to taking players for a pro team, I'll endorse PAC-10 players. I hope that Nic Young falls to the Lakers @19 myself

[miami_fan]

I'm still pretty sure the Celtics won't take a pg. Rondo and West is more than adequate, what the Celt's really need is a big man to put next to Big Al or a defensive wing like Brewer. Noah is a hell of a hustler, but I can't see them taking him at 5...Horford is the prize after the first 2, but he's gone to Atl or Memphis. So I think that leaves: Yi, Brewer, Green, and Wright.

I am coming around to the idea of the Celts making some kind of trade. Not a gut the team trade for a KG but a trade to bring in a reliable veteran and pick up a lower pick.

As far as the Heat goes, I would like to see them pick up a PG to replace the Jason Williams/Gary Payton combo. It would nice to see if Dorell Wright, Wayne Simien, and Earl Barron can get themselves off the bench and actually play. Riley's first round selection history has been less than stellar.

[rkmsuf]

I'm still pretty sure the Celtics won't take a pg. Rondo and West is more than adequate, what the Celt's really need is a big man to put next to Big Al or a defensive wing like Brewer. Noah is a hell of a hustler, but I can't see them taking him at 5...Horford is the prize after the first 2, but he's gone to Atl or Memphis. So I think that leaves: Yi, Brewer, Green, and Wright.

Correct, no Conley, at least not to keep for themselves.

Although the smart money says Ainge takes him to keep seeing as that might be the worst possible pick.

[JeeberD]

I'd love to have him on the Lakers personally. When it comes to taking players for a pro team, I'll endorse PAC-10 players.

You do know that Nevada is in the WAC, right? ;)

[Groundhog]

"I like rebounding," Fesenko said. "With Steve Nash on the court, I can rebound all the time. . . . After the rebound, you can dunk it. This is my favorite part of the game. Dunk over somebody and look in his eyes."

I love this Fesenko guy already. He sounds straight out of the movie Eddie: "Fesenko make basket!"

[Karlifornia]

Reggie Theus is the new coach of the Sacramento Kings

[JeeberD]

Oh, and speaking of the WAC...Reggie Theus has left NMSU for the Sacto Kings.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2909841

New Mexico State coach Reggie Theus is going home again -- back to the NBA and back to the Kings, but this time in Sacramento, not where he starred in Kansas City.

The Sacramento Kings will name Theus their next coach later Tuesday night, multiple sources told ESPN.com. A news conference will follow on Wednesday.

ESPN.com has learned that Theus will get a three-year deal, worth an estimated $6 million.

Theus will replace Eric Musselman, who was fired after the Kings went 33-49 and missed the playoffs in his only season as coach.

Sacramento first offered the job to Stan Van Gundy, but he went to Orlando once Billy Donovan asked out of his signed contract to return to the University of Florida.

Theus interviewed with the Kings twice and won the job over Lakers assistant Brian Shaw. The Kings also talked to another Lakers assistant, Kurt Rambis.

Theus led New Mexico State to the NCAA tournament after winning the WAC tournament in Las Cruces. The NCAA berth, which ended in a first-round loss to Texas, was the first for NMSU since 1999. Theus led NMSU to back-to-back winning seasons in his two seasons at the school. He coached them to a 25-9 record this past season. NMSU was 6-24 in the season before he arrived in 2005. Theus came to NMSU after a two-year stint as an assistant to Rick Pitino in Louisville.

Theus had a contract on the table from NMSU that would have bumped his annual salary from $355,000 to $466,000, with a new five-year rollover.

Theus had been outspoken this spring about his desire to return to NBA. He was an All-Star in the NBA. He played in the league for 13 seasons, mostly with Chicago and Kansas City which became Sacramento in 1985. He also played for Atlanta, Orlando and New Jersey before going to Europe in 1991. He played for Jerry Tarkanian at UNLV from 1976-78.

Theus coached as a volunteer at Cal State-Los Angeles, in the summer leagues for the Sixers and Nuggets, and then the ABA's Las Vegas Slam before Pitino hired him on a whim. Theus also worked in television as an actor.

But his dream was to get to the NBA as a coach, saying many times over the past month to ESPN.com that he was an "NBA guy" and could relate to a player as well as any other coach.

Andy Katz is a senior writer at ESPN.com.

[JeeberD]

Gah! Damn you, Karl!

[Karlifornia]

Gah! Damn you, Karl!

I saw you lurking in the thread.....I knew my time was limited

[Chief Rum]

Just saw the latest mock draft at www.nbadraft.net. Has the Lakers picking up another athletic stud project type big man in Jason Smith, and two Euro "who are they" bigs with their two second rounders.

lol...if that happens, Kupchak is going to need police protection from Kobe. :)

[miami_fan]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2912075

The proposed trade that would have sent Kevin Garnett to Boston, agreed to in principle by ex-teammates Kevin McHale and Danny Ainge, was taken off the table Thursday after Garnett got word to the Celtics that he doesn't want to play for them.

Garnett, according to sources close to the situation, is hoping for a trade to the Phoenix Suns if he has to leave the only team he has ever played for.

"The Boston trade isn't happening," Garnett's agent, Andy Miller, told ESPN.com's Chris Sheridan. "If a trade were to happen, that's not a destination that we're interested in pursuing."

It appears that Wolves management -- McHale and owner Glen Taylor -- is prepared for the first time to make a deal that would end the Garnett Era in Minneapolis after 12 seasons. Taylor, according to Wolves sources, has informed Garnett directly of that change in philosophy.

But Garnett will have a stronger-than-usual say in the destination if he is indeed moved before next season because of the ability to opt of his contract in the summer of 2008 and become a free agent just over a year from now if he forfeits his $23 million salary in 2008-09.

Without at least a strong indication that Garnett would be willing to sign an extension with the Celtics, Ainge would be parting with virtually every enticing trade chip Boston has for what amounts to a one-year rental.

Which pieces? The latest incarnation of the deal, according to sources, would have required the Celtics to send blossoming forward Al Jefferson, its No. 5 overall pick in next Thursday's draft and Theo Ratliff's cap-friendly contract in addition to Wolves alumnus Wally Szczerbiak and troubled guard Sebastian Telfair in exchange for Garnett and Wolves guard Troy Hudson.

"This would be a major trade that would affect a franchise and those in the organization, so you better be sure [he wants to be there long term]," said Miller, who informed the Wolves and Celtics late Wednesday that his client had no interest in playing for Boston.

Garnett rejected the move even though it would put him in the easier-to-conquer Eastern Conference and even though he is said to be friendly with Celtics star Paul Pierce.

Garnett has said for years that he doesn't want to leave his beloved "Sota" and has consistently refused to push for a trade.

Yet he is bracing for a trade now, after hearing of Taylor's new stance, which is said to have only increased his growing frustration with Taylor and McHale.

And Garnett, sources say, wants to move to a warm-weather city and a team that can claim legitimate championship potential.

All of which should help explain why the Suns are No. 1 on his list.

Another big factor: Garnett and Suns guard Steve Nash, sources say, have become good friends over the past few years, starting in 2005 when Garnett was one of the first players in the league to call Nash and congratulate him on his first MVP trophy.

The Wolves and Suns have also discussed a Garnett trade. The Wolves, though, naturally want to trade Garnett out of their conference if they can.

If it has to deal with the Suns -- given the strong possibility Garnett won't sanction a move elsewhere -- Minnesota is expected to demand that Phoenix part with Amare Stoudemire in the exchange, as well as a first-round pick from Atlanta in the 2008 draft that is fully unprotected.

It's considered unlikely that a Suns package built around Shawn Marion and that draft pick would be enough to pry Garnett away. Complicating matters further, Marion also has the right to become a free agent after the 2007-08 season and has also let it be known that he doesn't want to play in Minnesota or Boston, sources say. That stance quickly killed the possibility of a three-way deal involving Minnesota, Phoenix and Boston.

The Suns, meanwhile, are understandably hesitant to part with Stoudemire and have tried unsuccessfully to strike a deal without giving him up. Even though Garnett would certainly help Phoenix in the short term by supplying an instant boost of veteran savvy, while also likely improving team chemistry and addressing their biggest weakness -- matching up with San Antonio's Tim Duncan -- Stoudemire is only 24 and would appear to have limitless potential after making the most high-flying comeback from microfracture knee surgery that the league has ever seen.

Although Miller declined to specify a team when asked where Garnett would prefer to be dealt -- "Too early," he said -- it's believed that Phoenix will increase its efforts between now and Thursday's draft to assembling a Stoudemire-less package to satisfy Minnesota's requirements, perhaps by pulling in another team or two.

Or perhaps they'll reverse course and surrender Stoudemire, which would finally lead to a real Garnett deal after ceaseless KG trade speculation over the past several years.

Garnett has "a good handle on the possibility of being traded," Miller said. "Kevin is an extremely loyal person, and loyalty is not a common factor among pro athletes, but in this situation he understands he has to put his long-term considerations ahead of the Minnesota Timberwolves' long-term considerations."

Marc Stein is the senior NBA writer for ESPN.com. To e-mail him, click here. Information from The Associated Press was used in this report.

[bulletsponge]

LOL @ Boston

[stevew]

Wow, I can't imagine someone turning down the Celtics 20 years ago. How quickly things change.

[molson]

Ainge has no plan at all. It's desperation time.

[Ryche]

Ainge has no plan at all. It's desperation time.

Unfortunately, it's desperation time in Minnesota too.

[bulletsponge]

Unfortunately, it's desperation time in Minnesota too.

Dont forget LA! :D

[Atocep]

Unfortunately, it's desperation time in Minnesota too.

Indeed. The T'Wolves have to move Garnett. The Celtics with him would be better than the T'Wolves now so you know Garnett is looking at opting out in 2 years and probably going to whatever contender can pay him the most.

Next offseason it hits a point where teams know they have to move him, so right now is when they'll probably get the most for him. Otherwise they'll either end up holding onto him and getting nothing or trading him to the Knicks for 6 or 7 small forwards.

[Izulde]

Wow, the Celtics have really hit rock bottom :(

[Sublime 2]

Ainge has no plan at all. It's desperation time.

I thought ONE of his plans was to kick out the crummy old bums who were here, acquire new young talent, and trade the surplus talent for a sidekick to Pierce and roleplayers. While trading Jefferson for Garnett may be desperation, trading the #5, Theo, Green, and others for quality vets doesn't seem like a bad move.

[Neon_Chaos]

I think that whoever picks Yi from this draft is going to be pleasantly surprised. :) But that's just the Chinese in me talking. :P

[stevew]

I think trading Al would be a big mistake, and the Celtics would regret it a ton. Garnett is an all world player still, but Al's like 22 or 23, and he still has a ton of room to improve.

[miami_fan]

Ainge has no plan at all. It's desperation time.

Wasn't he supposed to be creating a team that played an up tempo fast break style of basketball?

[rkmsuf]

they should find a way to send Garnett to Memphis

or the Czech Republic

always thought that guy was a gigantic asshat

[rkmsuf]

dola, Marion said the same thing about not wanting to go to Boston.

someone throw a towel in Ainge's face.

[Atocep]

There's a rumor floating around that Garnett is pushing hard for a trade to Phoenix, but if that doesn't happen he'll seriously consider accepting a trade to Boston.

[k0ruptr]

oh god I hope Phoenix doesn't trade Marion for Jamison. That would be awful for them imo.

[Arles]

The second is Jamison to Phoenix for Marion. I'd do that one as well since Les Balles need something in the post and Marion may be able to better fit that in Jordan's offense.

In the East Valley trib:
Asked about a report of the Suns trading Marion for Jamison, the Washington Wizards’ high-scoring small forward, Suns vice president David Griffin said: “We never had a conversation with them, ever, about anything like that. Completely asinine.”

There is no chance that deal happens.

[JeeberD]

And apparently Artest and Bonzi are tight, so if we brought him in Bonzi would probably stick around for his second year...

Well, we haven't picked up Artest yet, but Bonzi is indeed coming back... :rolleyes:

http://www.clutchfans.net/news/1415/bonzi_wells_opting_to_stay_with_rockets/


Bonzi Wells opting to stay with Rockets
Bonzi Wells will return to the Rockets for the 2007-08 season, his agent told local Fox 26 late Saturday night.

"Bonzi has sent in the necessary paperwork and he is opting in and he will play for the Rockets this coming season," said Bonzi's agent Bill Duffy.

The 6-foot-5, 210 pound (cough) guard was a disaster last season in Houston as he seemed to dunk more donuts than basketballs. He came to camp out of shape, had run-ins with coach Jeff Van Gundy and staff and never could work his way in to the rotation consistently.

Bonzi also quit the Rockets with just 5 games remaining until the playoffs, doing it via text message to Rockets trainer Keith Jones. So it's been a little surprising to see management gushing about how hopeful they are of his return.

At the same time, at a cost of around $2.3 million for a potential strong rotation player, it's hard to blame them.

This season could be different for Wells. New Rockets coach Rick Adelman was Bonzi's coach in Sacramento when the guard averaged 13.6 points on over 46% shooting to go with 7.7 boards. Adelman could find ways to get Wells more involved, which was more difficult to do under Van Gundy's system, which placed a premium on three-point shooting.

"Basically last year was an incomplete year for Bonzi," said Duffy. "He feels very strongly about Rick Adelman. He feels the Rockets are a championship caliber team especially with the addition of Mike James."

[Groundhog]

"Basically last year was an incomplete year for Bonzi," said Duffy. "He feels very strongly about Rick Adelman. He feels the Rockets are a championship caliber team especially with the addition of Mike James." [/i]

Oh dear. Did Duffy just equate Mike James with an NBA championship?

[miami_fan]

Lakers get:
Kevin Garnett

Pacers get:
Andrew Bynum
LaMar Odom

Celtics get:
Jermaine O'Neal

The T-Wolves would get the #5 pick and a combination of the following but not limited to:
The #19 pick from the Lakers
Kwame Brown (exp. contract)
Theo Ratliff (exp. contract)
Al Jefferson
Other spare parts from Boston(Sebastian Telfair etc.)

It sounds like Kevin McHale is holding all the cards in this trade. If he can get the #5 and Al Jefferson plus the expiring contracts, I'll take back half of the bad stuff I said about him in the past.

[st.cronin]

Al Jefferson for Jermaine O'Neal? /vomit

[Sublime 2]

Al Jefferson for Jermaine O'Neal? /vomit

Chad Ford mentioned Gerald Green and #5 for JO...which is FAR more appealing, I can't fathom Ainge trading Jefferson and #5 for JO.

[mckerney]

Lakers get:
Kevin Garnett

Pacers get:
Andrew Bynum
LaMar Odom

Celtics get:
Jermaine O'Neal

The T-Wolves would get the #5 pick and a combination of the following but not limited to:
The #19 pick from the Lakers
Kwame Brown (exp. contract)
Theo Ratliff (exp. contract)
Al Jefferson
Other spare parts from Boston(Sebastian Telfair etc.)

It sounds like Kevin McHale is holding all the cards in this trade. If he can get the #5 and Al Jefferson plus the expiring contracts, I'll take back half of the bad stuff I said about him in the past.

Have Boston send back the Wolves pick they own and have someone take Jaric and Hudson and it's a possibility.


What would really make the offseason is regardless of whether or not this trade happens is the Wolves pull the trigger on the reported deal to get rid of Ricky Avis.

[miami_fan]

Chad Ford mentioned Gerald Green and #5 for JO...which is FAR more appealing, I can't fathom Ainge trading Jefferson and #5 for JO.

Why would McHale trade Garnett in order to get back Green? They already have too many guards.

Although we are talking about Kevin McHale

[mckerney]

Why would McHale trade Garnett in order to get back Green? They already have too many guards.

Although we are talking about Kevin McHale

No way should the wolves do this and get Green. If they're making a deal with picking up players from the Celtics, landing Jefferson should be a must.

[Sublime 2]

No way should the wolves do this and get Green. If they're making a deal with picking up players from the Celtics, landing Jefferson should be a must.

And trading Jefferson and #5 for JO is absolutely absurd...so I can't see this working either way.

[mckerney]

And trading Jefferson and #5 for JO is absolutely absurd...so I can't see this working either way.

As would be trading Garnett and getting the #5, #19, and Green.

[Arles]

Prediction, in 3 months:

KG will be a T-Wolve
Kobe will be a Laker
Jermaine O'Neal will be a Pacer
Al Jefferson will be a Celtic
Amare will be a Sun

;)

[Groundhog]

Arlie, Suns are working out Brewer and Noah tomorrow? Trade in the works?

[Groundhog]

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/basketball/nba/2007-06-24-yi-wows-scouts_N.htm?csp=34


China's Yi brings wow factor to NBA draft
By David Leon Moore, USA TODAY

LOS ANGELES — Yi Jianlian (pronounced yee chon-len), the likely top-10 NBA draft pick from China, is billed as the next Yao Ming, but don't be fooled.
He's 7 feet tall, 247 pounds and quite an athlete, more akin to a power or small forward than a center such as the Houston Rockets' Yao at 7-6, 310.

Yi is quicker, faster and much springier. He's an excellent shooter up to 18-20 feet and can hit three-pointers, too.

Ahead of Thursday's NBA draft he has worked out informally for and with a variety of veteran basketball people not affiliated with particular teams, and he has universally wowed them. Respected observers such as Pete Newell, Kiki Vandeweghe and Don MacLean have watched Yi up close, and they think he can be an immediate starter or major contributor.

Newell, the legendary Hall of Fame coach who has run the Big Man Camp for years, had Yi there four years ago. He renewed acquaintances last month, watching Yi work out at UCLA.

"Yi will end up being the best player in the NBA from China, and I know that's saying a lot," Newell, 91, says. "He has much more body control than Yao, and he's a much better jumper. I'm real high on him, and I think I'm right."

Yi has the full attention of teams with high picks in Thursday's draft. He worked out for the Atlanta Hawks (Nos. 3 and 11 picks), Boston Celtics (No. 5), Chicago Bulls (No. 9), Sacramento Kings (No. 10), Philadelphia 76ers (No. 12), Los Angeles Clippers (No. 14) and Golden State Warriors (No. 18).

ESPN analyst Vandeweghe, the former NBA player and Denver Nuggets general manager, says he was "blown away" by the Yi workouts he saw last month.

"What I didn't realize was how athletic he is," Vandeweghe says. "I've worked out big players for more than 20 years, and I compare Yi very favorably to when I first" worked out with Dirk Nowitzki."

Broadcaster MacLean, the former UCLA star and NBA forward, worked with Yi for a week recently.

"People say, 'Oh, he's good for a Chinese player.' No, he's good for good," MacLean says.

Yi, working out the past two months in Los Angeles, where his agent is based, still must prove he can mix it up inside, be a solid rebounder or capably defend the post. Then again, he's just 19.

His biggest promoters say he is not the next Yao, but The Next Generation — a Chinese player who can run and jump and dunk with a flourish.

Yi likes Yao personally but says he does not like the on-court comparisons to him. "Different positions," he says in English. "He's a center. He's very tall. I am not tall like that. I play the power forward. I can play some center, but it's not my favorite position."

Yi has a delightful personality, quick to smile, eager to please. He has been popular around L.A., taking in big Hollywood premieres of the new installments of the Pirates of the Caribbean and Shrek films.

He did two interviews for this story, one in slow, halting, basic English, another, much livelier, in Mandarin, with an interpreter. He takes English lessons daily. Every night, he has a one-on-one session with a tutor. How's it going?

"OK," he says in English, shaking his head. "It's very hard."

But he does not, apparently, scare easily.

"Yes, I have been driving," Yi says, chuckling.

On the freeways?

"Yes," he says, his eyes widening.

So far, no accidents, no tickets, no big deal.

"It's not so different," he says. "Driving in China is hard, too."

Questions remain

NBA teams are less interested in how he drives the L.A. freeways than in how he drives the lane against the likes of Tim Duncan, Kevin Garnett or Nowitzki.

Despite all the praise, he might be the biggest mystery in the draft. Some NBA teams have scouted him in the Chinese Basketball Association, where he led his Guangdong Tigers to three championships in four seasons.

He has an international track record, too, but it is spotty. He played only sparingly alongside Yao in the 2004 Olympics, averaging about three points and three rebounds.

Yi was more of a factor last year at the World Championships in Japan, averaging 6.2 points and 5.7 rebounds. He had a respectable showing against Dwight Howard, Elton Brand and the U.S. team, finishing with 13 points and seven rebounds in 24 minutes in a game the USA won in a rout.

His athleticism and potential are intriguing, although it's difficult to tell how that will translate to the NBA without seeing him regularly against high-caliber competition.

MacLean says it's a legitimate concern.

"I watched him on tape and saw him play in a couple games in that Chinese league," he says. "It would be like me playing against sixth-graders. One game he had like 42 points and 15 rebounds and 38 of them must have been dunks.

"You're taking a chance picking him real high without seeing him against guys who are going to play in the NBA."

Yi has strong, muscular legs, is lean in the belly and thin in the upper body and arms. He has worked off and on for nearly a year with strength and conditioning coach Joe Abunassar, who has trained such NBA players as Garnett, Chauncey Billups and Baron Davis.

Abunassar says Yi has less than 4% body fat, a vertical leap of 361/2 inches and can run the floor as fast as a lot of guards.

"He's at the top end of every kind of test for speed, strength and agility," Abunassar says. "I've rarely seen a guy with his athleticism and work ethic."

Four years ago, Yi got permission from Chinese officials to attend Newell's camp in Las Vegas. Yao had just finished his rookie season. Yi, then 15, was dreaming of following Yao to the NBA.

Last month, when Newell saw Yi work out at UCLA, Yi at one point executed a quick spin move that caught Newell's eye.

"Who in China taught you that move?" Newell asked Yi.

"You did," Yi said, smiling. "In Las Vegas."

Bottom line, MacLean says, is that Yi "should be a good power forward who can really step out. Nobody's going to ask him to get 25 (points) and 12 (rebounds) or be an immediate All-Star.

"But he's big enough and skilled enough to be a contributor and be a starter right away."

No contact in practice

Yi will be the fourth NBA player from China, but his agent, Dan Fegan, said he did not know how Yi's contract would be negotiated with the Chinese government. Yao, Wang Zhizhi and Menke Bateer had to give part of their salaries to the government.

Fegan has been protective of Yi on and off the court. He has allowed only a few interviews.

Yi has been staying in an apartment in Westwood, near the UCLA campus. His father, Yi Jinglin, 50, and mother, Mai Meiling, 49, are staying in a nearby apartment and will stay here until the draft. They are retired postal workers.

"They didn't need a job, so they just relax," says Yi, who has drawn a salary from his club team (around $250,000) and income from an endorsement deal with Nike — "a pittance," Fegan says.

Yi hasn't played in any pickup games in L.A., although the area is full of good runs with talented college and pro players.

"That's too dangerous," Fegan says. "Someone is always going to want to prove himself. It's a recipe for injury."

So Yi works day after day on his shooting, post moves, agility, strength — mostly against no one. On a typical day recently at the UCLA gym he worked out for about an hour on a court separated by a curtain from pickup games.

His mother and an official from his Chinese team sat on the baseline, expressionless, while a coach fed Yi for shot after shot, occasionally giving him pointers on his release or trying to get more leg in his shot. His father crouched on the far sideline, expressionless.

A week later, Yi held a formal workout for the Kings at Home Depot Center in Carson, about 20 miles southeast of the UCLA campus. Yi put on quite a show, hitting shots from all over, polishing off post moves with strong dunks, stroking three-pointers, running the court and finishing high above the rim.

What did Geoff Petrie, Kings president of basketball operations, think of it all?

"Good, for what you're allowed to do in these workouts," he said.

Fegan and Yi's parents say Yi is really is 19, although stories for several years suggest his age was doctored by the Chinese basketball federation, and he might be 22.

"I don't think anyone is worried about his age," Petrie says. "You're looking at whether or not the guy's a real good basketball player."

Less than a week before a monumental day for him, Yi says he is not nervous or afraid about what NBA clubs are thinking.

"I have talked to Yao, and he tells me you have to be aggressive and mentally strong," Yi says. "Some people have told me to be prepared for a little bit of a rocky start, so I am preparing as well as I can for that. I know I have to get stronger.

"But everything has gone well here in my training and my workouts. I am not really surprised. I think I have a good sense of what the competition will be like, and I know what I am capable of doing. I think I am ready."


I think this article does a good case of spelling out the pros and cons of taking this guy. Unless everybody is just getting ahead of themselves it sounds like Yi is more athletic than I first thought, and it looks like he does indeed have a nice shooting stroke out to three as it's been said.

However, he hasn't worked out against anybody, and that to me is a danger sign. He's hardly been dominant on the national team, and there are plenty of guys who look impressive in warm-ups before the game - nailing every shot, and throwing down big slams - who struggle to do the same during games. It's just too hard to tell from a non-contact workout what kind of a player he'll be in games, especially considering the "quality" of players he's been going up against in China.

My opinion of him has raised from a high-risk medium-payout to a medium-risk high-payout over the past week or so thanks to articles like this one, but I still don't know how happy I'd be if my team selected him higher than #10. I think there are enough other lower-risk high-payout guys around in the top 10 to pass on Yi.

Still, I'm sure he'll end up in the 5-9 range.

[Atocep]

I think this article does a good case of spelling out the pros and cons of taking this guy. Unless everybody is just getting ahead of themselves it sounds like Yi is more athletic than I first thought, and it looks like he does indeed have a nice shooting stroke out to three as it's been said.

However, he hasn't worked out against anybody, and that to me is a danger sign. He's hardly been dominant on the national team, and there are plenty of guys who look impressive in warm-ups before the game - nailing every shot, and throwing down big slams - who struggle to do the same during games. It's just too hard to tell from a non-contact workout what kind of a player he'll be in games, especially considering the "quality" of players he's been going up against in China.

My opinion of him has raised from a high-risk medium-payout to a medium-risk high-payout over the past week or so thanks to articles like this one, but I still don't know how happy I'd be if my team selected him higher than #10. I think there are enough other lower-risk high-payout guys around in the top 10 to pass on Yi.

Still, I'm sure he'll end up in the 5-9 range.

I've liked him what I've seen and heard of him (I've seen 2 videos of his workouts). For some reason every foreign player has a bust aura around them when they've actually been just as safe, if not more safe, than the American players drafted. He's going to be a 3 at first and probably ease into the 4 as he gets a bit older. The biggest knock on him is there's no way he's really 19, he's closer to 22, but scouts and GMs don't seem to worried about it. I think the "Chinese Brad Lohaus" tag Bill Simmons gave him came from him being pissed off that the Celtics aren't getting Oden or Durant.

I've read that a lot of the bad press about him is stuff from teams that are pissed because he wouldn't work out for them. Ainge and the other GMs that got to work him out say that they got to work him out however they wanted, were able to interview him, and saw what they wanted from him.

He didn't dominate in China, but the culture there is to defer to the American on the team. Yao went through the same transition when he came over here. He did look very good when China played the US team, so I wouldn't be worried about his talent, its more about being patient as he learns to play more aggresively.

If my team were drafting in the 5-6 range, I'd love to see them take him. I'd actually say he's a safer pick than Brandon Wright. I'd definitely take him over Conley, Noah, and Hawes.

[Groundhog]

If my team were drafting in the 5-6 range, I'd love to see them take him. I'd actually say he's a safer pick than Brandon Wright. I'd definitely take him over Conley, Noah, and Hawes.

I'd take him higher than Noah and Hawes (neither of whom I'm very fond of as NBA prospects - especially Hawes), but I don't think I'd pass on Conley for Yi.

Speaking of Hawes, draftexpress had a "by the numbers" feature on the centers in the draft the other day, and boy did he come out looking underwhelming. I've never seen the guy play in college but even before seeing that article I'd been doing a lot of reading on the guy, and I just fail to see what makes him such a better prospect than a guy like Nick Fazekas, outside of an inch or two of height and a couple of years of age.

Hawes has all the makings of a lightweight finesse C that will struggle against NBA pivots IMO, where as at least Fazekas hits the boards. They both have similar offensive games, yet Fazekas sounds a lot more polished, and will probably get picked 20 picks later.

[miami_fan]

We have discussed Yi before here and IMO the question remains the same. Which GM has enough confidence in his scouting and his ability to evaluate talent to pick Yi and take the initial criticism that their fan base will barrage them with. Fair or not, most NBA fans are not going to be as quick to trust the GM after Darko. Especially if that team bypasses a player that fanbase drooled over during March Madness.

[NYFAN]

Here is the thing. Nobody can predict how this guy is going to do.

Yi's strengths:
Athletic
Highly Skilled
Tall

Yi's weaknesses:
Needs to get stronger
Has never performed against athletes that are equally athletic and tall
Has never performed against athletes that are equally athletic and stronger
(note... by perform I mean compete and be successful - which he wasn't in international competition)

What will determine whether or not he succeeds?
#1 - Mental toughness (this is a very over used phrase, and a very misunderstood phrase by the common fan - but Yi needs to have it to succeed)

#2 - Work ethic

Unfortunately these two things are just about impossible to measure. There is no way to accurately measure mental toughness, especially when you are talking about transplanting a young person from one culture to another on top of the mental demands of competing at an entirely new level. Even a well prepared, mentally tough individual is being set up to fail in this situation.

Work ethic? You can ask references, watch him practice etc... but there is no way to get a true measure. References can have alternative motives. He can change behaviors while you are watching. It is very hard, if not possible, to judge this. Add in factors like receiving a new, huge contract, being placed in a very lavish lifestyle etc... and it becomes even harder.

How this guy does is a complete guess. He could be Maceij (sp?) Lampe, "Niki" (not even going to try and spell that guy's name), or he could be Dirk. It's impossible to tell.

I think if I'm an NBA GM I ask myself this question... How good is my team now? If I need one "solid" piece I don't take the risk. Then I ask myself what is my salary cap situation? If it's dismal then I need to take a risk, and go for that super mega star - if it's really good, maybe I try and get a 2nd tier player in hopes of luring a more stable super star in a year or two. Then I ask myself do I have market appeal? If you don't, Yi is attractive once again. So basically, if I'm a really bad franchise (see Celtics, Hawks, etc...) I take the gamble - it can't hurt. Nobody else has the huge upside, and I'm never going to lure a LeBron type player to Atlanta because the franchise has been so bad. If I'm the Bulls? I probably pass.

[Arles]

Arlie, Suns are working out Brewer and Noah tomorrow? Trade in the works?
it appears the Suns are targeting someone with a pick in the top 10. the rumored deal is Phoenix's #24 this season and the Atlanta pick in 2008 (plus maybe their own in 08) to move up. The rumored teams are Boston, Charlotte, memphis and maybe Sacramento.

[Atocep]

Sounds like a 3-team deal involving Garnett going to Phoenix, Amare going to Atlanta, and Minnesota getting a bunch of draft picks and maybe a couple spare parts has been ok'd by both Phoenix and Minnesota. Its comes down to whether Atlanta is ok with adding payroll, which is in no way a given.

[albionmoonlight]

Prediction, in 3 months:

KG will be a T-Wolve
Kobe will be a Laker
Jermaine O'Neal will be a Pacer
Al Jefferson will be a Celtic
Amare will be a Sun

;)

Arles understands how the NBA hot stove works. Lots of smoke. Rarely any fire.

[Jas_lov]

Sounds like a 3-team deal involving Garnett going to Phoenix, Amare going to Atlanta, and Minnesota getting a bunch of draft picks and maybe a couple spare parts has been ok'd by both Phoenix and Minnesota. Its comes down to whether Atlanta is ok with adding payroll, which is in no way a given.

Is KG that much better than Amare to do this deal? I don't think so. I know Nash is getting old and Marion is too expensive no matter what, but Amare had a good year coming off that injury and he's only 24. It's a good deal for the T-Wolves because they'd have #3, #7, and #11 in this year's draft. Atlanta would be getting an emerging star, but still wouldn't have a PG and no draft picks in the 1st round this year. Maybe they could attract better free agents with Amare and Joe Johnson, but a lot more players will have to be added to this deal to make the salaries work.

[MikeVic]

Is KG that much better than Amare to do this deal? I don't think so. I know Nash is getting old and Marion is too expensive no matter what, but Amare had a good year coming off that injury and he's only 24. It's a good deal for the T-Wolves because they'd have #3, #7, and #11 in this year's draft. Atlanta would be getting an emerging star, but still wouldn't have a PG and no draft picks in the 1st round this year. Maybe they could attract better free agents with Amare and Joe Johnson, but a lot more players will have to be added to this deal to make the salaries work.

Atlanta is slowly going to add Nash, Marion, and umm... Jake Tsilkilis or whatever. Then wonder why their team isn't winning, with a then 45-year-old Nash.

[Karlifornia]

The Warriors and the Hawks had a deal in place sending Monta Ellis to Atlanta for the #11 pick, but it fell through.

EDIT: Now the talk is the #11 to Seattle for Luke Ridnour.

[Anthony]

i'm just not seeing how Noah will translate into a star. i don't see anything dominate about his game that i would make him a top 10 pick. he'll be a great bench player.he'll have one of those nondescript careers like Shane Battier, you know, good enough to include in a trade, good enough to come off the bench, but won't put you over the top and will give you no more and no less than what's expected of him.

[digamma]

you under estimate your daddy.

[Groundhog]

The Warriors and the Hawks had a deal in place sending Monta Ellis to Atlanta for the #11 pick, but it fell through.

EDIT: Now the talk is the #11 to Seattle for Luke Ridnour.

I'd take Monta in a heartbeat for the #11, but not Ridnour.

Cavs apparently looking to get in to the 1st round through San Antonio, and I really hope it happens. My guess would be that nothing will happen until draft day, if the Spurs decide that there is no one there that they want.

[Groundhog]

Sounds like a 3-team deal involving Garnett going to Phoenix, Amare going to Atlanta, and Minnesota getting a bunch of draft picks and maybe a couple spare parts has been ok'd by both Phoenix and Minnesota. Its comes down to whether Atlanta is ok with adding payroll, which is in no way a given.

This sounds to me like a trade where everybody loses, except maybe Minnesota.

Atlanta wind up with Amare but not draft picks, no C, and no PG.

Phoenix get Garnett, who is better than Amare but far older, and not better by THAT much.

Minnesota get 3 lottery picks in a strong draft, but Ricky Davis becomes their top player, meaning they'll be lucky to win 20 games over the next few seasons. Puts them in a great position to try and rebuild however.

[Atocep]

This sounds to me like a trade where everybody loses, except maybe Minnesota.

Atlanta wind up with Amare but not draft picks, no C, and no PG.

Phoenix get Garnett, who is better than Amare but far older, and not better by THAT much.

Minnesota get 3 lottery picks in a strong draft, but Ricky Davis becomes their top player, meaning they'll be lucky to win 20 games over the next few seasons. Puts them in a great position to try and rebuild however.

I agree, except personally I'd rather have Garnett than Amare. Reason being the microfracture surgery. Its not a surgery that really fixes the joint. He's sort of a guinea pig for the surgery because of his age and how much he relies on his athletic ability. For the average person the surgery is supposed to last around 10 years, Amare will give people an idea of how long it will last for an athelete.

I'd be nervous having a long-term commitment to a guy that is probably going to have another microfracture surgery at some point down the line.

[mckerney]

This sounds to me like a trade where everybody loses, except maybe Minnesota.

Atlanta wind up with Amare but not draft picks, no C, and no PG.

Phoenix get Garnett, who is better than Amare but far older, and not better by THAT much.

Minnesota get 3 lottery picks in a strong draft, but Ricky Davis becomes their top player, meaning they'll be lucky to win 20 games over the next few seasons. Puts them in a great position to try and rebuild however.

I like the deal, but Ricky Avis needs to go whether or not the Wolves trade Garnett. Moving him should be just as much a priority as trying to find someone to take Hudson and Jaric.

[Groundhog]

Kind of obvious, but a little interesting none-the-less:

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/sports/AP-BKN-Draft-Findings.html?_r=1&oref=slogin


AP Analysis of NBA Drafts Reveals Trends
NEW YORK (AP) -- The best value in the first round of this week's NBA draft might come from a wing player picked in the top five who left college early. The worst value might be a senior big man selected late in the lottery.

That's what an analysis by The Associated Press of past NBA drafts suggests. An evaluation of the 10 first rounds from 1995-2004 revealed several trends:

-- Low-post players were the most popular selections but were much less likely than their counterparts at other positions to develop into All-Stars.

-- Players who stayed in college four years were less likely to become All-Stars than younger players picked in the same range of the draft.

-- Half of top-five picks became All-Star caliber players. That dropped to about one-quarter of draftees taken in spots six through 10. But the odds of getting a future All-Star were about the same -- 10 percent -- whether a team selected around No. 11 or No. 21.

-- The franchise that seemed to get the least bang for its buck was the Los Angeles Clippers, with eight top-10 picks in that span but no All-Stars to show for it.

-- There's huge variation from year to year in how many impact players are produced. The 1996 draft featured nine players who have made multiple All-Star appearances. The 2000, 2001 and 2002 drafts combined produced just seven who were chosen for even one All-Star team.

The abundance of -- and lack of production from -- big men drafted wasn't a surprise to some NBA front office personnel. But changes in the NBA's playing style may shift that trend.

The dearth of quality post players in the league leaves teams willing to take a chance on a big man.

''If you're going to make a mistake, you make a mistake big,'' the Utah Jazz's director of player personnel, Walt Perrin, said of the prevailing philosophy.

Low-post players accounted for 117 of the 286 selections from 1995-04 who played in the NBA. Only 17 of them (15 percent) went on to make an All-Star team (or, for players drafted in 2003 and '04, came close to that level early in their careers).

Eighty-nine of those big men (76 percent) had at best a limited impact in the league.

In contrast, 21 percent of other draftees went on to become All-Star caliber players, with 57 percent making no more than a limited impact.

Further complicating matters is that bigger guys tend to develop slower, so teams often have a harder time predicting how effective they will be.

Just because a post player never becomes a star, though, doesn't mean he was a wasted pick.

''The way the NBA is today, most people are getting their scoring out of other positions,'' said Donnie Nelson, the Dallas Mavericks' president of basketball operations and general manager.

''They may not be a great scorer,'' Perrin said, ''but they can still have legitimate NBA skills in rebounding and blocking shots.''

Are teams as desperate for big men these days, anyway, with the increased reliance on small ball? With power forwards becoming more skilled and perimeter-oriented, Nelson said, there's less demand for traditional post players.

That was reflected in the last two drafts, when just 16 of the 57 draftees who played in the league were big men.

The prevalence of players turning pro early has left few college seniors whom NBA executives deem worthy of high picks. But even the few who were taken in the top 10 have less of an impact than their younger counterparts.

Of the 19 seniors drafted that high, only three became All-Star caliber players (16 percent). That compares with 41 percent (31 of 75) of Americans picked in the top 10 who didn't attend college or didn't complete their eligibility.

The results do suggest that the rule keeping high school players out of the draft will increase the chances of elite prospects developing into stars. The production of players who turned pro out of high school was very all-or-nothing: for every LeBron James, there was a Kwame Brown.

Five of the 12 high schoolers taken in the top 10 became All-Star caliber players, but another five made limited contributions at best. Of the top-10 picks who spent some time in college but did not complete their eligibility, only 29 percent (18 of 63) had no more than a limited impact.

In addition to the Clippers, the Atlanta Hawks, Golden State Warriors, New York Knicks, Portland Trail Blazers and Seattle SuperSonics also got little out of their picks. The Blazers and Sonics can rectify that this season, drafting 1-2 with Greg Oden and Kevin Durant available.

Other teams seem to excel at taking players who thrive for other franchises. The Boston Celtics selected Chauncey Billups and Joe Johnson. The Phoenix Suns helped themselves with Amare Stoudemire and Shawn Marion, but Michael Finley and Steve Nash developed into All-Stars with the Mavericks (although, of course, Nash returned to the Suns and became a two-time MVP).

The part in red is perhaps the most interesting, though again pretty obvious. After the top 10 or so drafts get just about impossible to call as teams start picking for need, meaning that a #21 can be as good as an #11.

It's always seemed to me as well that teams picking in the lower lottery tend to gamble on projects rather than taking "sure things", leading to there still being guys around in the mid-teens/early 20s that can wind up being very good players.

[Arles]

This sounds to me like a trade where everybody loses, except maybe Minnesota.

Atlanta wind up with Amare but not draft picks, no C, and no PG.

Phoenix get Garnett, who is better than Amare but far older, and not better by THAT much.

Minnesota get 3 lottery picks in a strong draft, but Ricky Davis becomes their top player, meaning they'll be lucky to win 20 games over the next few seasons. Puts them in a great position to try and rebuild however.
It was just reported here locally (directly from Kerr) that the Suns were never even contacted on this deal. It sounds like a brain-child deal from Minny and Atlanta and both teams assumed Phoenix would be OK with an Amare-KG swap. Kerr was not going to do the deal and told Amare he would not be traded.

ESPN got played like a fiddle on this one. To run with a rumor as "almost done" when one team wasn't even contacted sounds silly. But, what do you expect when Jim Gray and Chad Ford are the authors...

[Groundhog]

It was just reported here locally (directly from Kerr) that the Suns were never even contacted on this deal. It sounds like a brain-child deal from Minny and Atlanta and both teams assumed Phoenix would be OK with an Amare-KG swap. Kerr was not going to do the deal and told Amare he would not be traded.

ESPN got played like a fiddle on this one. To run with a rumor as "almost done" when one team wasn't even contacted sounds silly. But, what do you expect when Jim Gray and Chad Ford are the authors...

Good to hear, because the trade was puzzling to me, even from Atlanta's side.

I personally think the Suns should just sit on what they have and look to add some pieces in the draft and maybe grab a guy like Grant Hill in FA. They aren't far off IMO, and there's no need to tweak things too much.

[Atocep]

It was just reported here locally (directly from Kerr) that the Suns were never even contacted on this deal. It sounds like a brain-child deal from Minny and Atlanta and both teams assumed Phoenix would be OK with an Amare-KG swap. Kerr was not going to do the deal and told Amare he would not be traded.

ESPN got played like a fiddle on this one. To run with a rumor as "almost done" when one team wasn't even contacted sounds silly. But, what do you expect when Jim Gray and Chad Ford are the authors...

They've actually been saying Phoenix purposely put themselves in a situation where they can could claim deniability. Minnesota was in a situation where they could shop Garnett and include Marion (preferably) or Amare in a deal. Then if they got something concrete then they'd officially make the offer to Phoenix.

All indications in the media right now are that this was the case. Contacts for the Suns said the Kerr never contacted Minnesota about the deal, but at the same time they're saying that Atlanta nixed the deal when Steve Belkin (the guy that made a huge deal over the Joe Johnson deal) vetoed it.

It seems to be becoming popular in both the NBA and MLB to use lower ranking team officials to initiate trade offers so GMs can claim ignorance. I've heard of it used by Minnesota earlier this offseason and by a couple MLB teams this past offseason.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Now the talk is the #11 to Seattle for Luke Ridnour.

Which would prove once & for all that Billy Knight is indeed the worst GM in the NBA, and one of the worst in league history.

[Groundhog]

All indications in the media right now are that this was the case. Contacts for the Suns said the Kerr never contacted Minnesota about the deal, but at the same time they're saying that Atlanta nixed the deal when Steve Belkin (the guy that made a huge deal over the Joe Johnson deal) vetoed it.


I thought Belkin was out already?

IMO he should be the one in charge there, as he seems to have a lot more sense than the rest of that crew.

[JonInMiddleGA]

... as he seems to have a lot more sense than the rest of that crew.

It doesn't take much.

[Atocep]

I thought Belkin was out already?

IMO he should be the one in charge there, as he seems to have a lot more sense than the rest of that crew.

A judge ordered last year (maybe early this year) that he could buy out the other owners and take control of the team. The other owners are currently appealing, but Belkin can still veto any moves the team makes that puts them over the luxury tax.

[MrBug708]

I still say trade Kobe, start all over. Bynum, Odom, and whoever we get in a trade isn't a bad starting place for 2 years down the line. F Jerry Buss and his small wallet

[stevew]

Which would prove once & for all that Billy Knight is indeed the worst GM in the NBA, and one of the worst in league history.

Eh, I don't really see anyone at 11 who will necessarily be better than Ridnour. The Hawks really need a PG, they'd at least be getting a guy who's in the middle tier of point guards. It's surely better than drafting another swingman, right?

[stevew]

For those keeping a Mock at home, Oden goes #1

[stevew]

The "stevew" top 10 mock draft.

1. Oden-Blazers
2. Durant-Sonics
3. Horford-Hawks
4. Green-Memphis(traded to Minnesota)
5. Chinaman-Celtics
6. Brewer-Bucks
7. Conley-TWolves(traded to Memphis)
8. Wright-Bobcats
9. Stuckey-Bulls
10. Noah-Kings

Eh, I worked on this for like two seconds, but I figure there will be at least one trade in the top 10. I think the Wolves send something like Ricky Davis to Memphis for Brian Cardinal, to facilitate the pick swap. I don't think Green gets past the Bucks, but I think he would be a good fit for Minnesota. Memphis has a number of different picks they can make, dropping from 4 to 7 and dumping a bad contract for Davis's expiring deal is a decent move. They like Brewer or Conley, so they make the trade.

Stuckey's my "suprise" pick for the top 10. I think the Bulls reach a bit, but grab a guy who can flat out put the ball in the hoop. At some point this offseason they'll trade Duhon, picking Stuckey up might also facilitate them moving Ben Gordon in some sort of larger package for a premiere big man.

The Chinese guy is a lock to the Celtics at #5.

[Neon_Chaos]

His name is Yi Jian Lian.

[mckerney]

The "stevew" top 10 mock draft.

1. Oden-Blazers
2. Durant-Sonics
3. Horford-Hawks
4. Green-Memphis(traded to Minnesota)
5. Chinaman-Celtics
6. Brewer-Bucks
7. Conley-TWolves(traded to Memphis)
8. Wright-Bobcats
9. Stuckey-Bulls

I will be upset if the wolves pass on a chance to get Conley. Two years in a row of drafting the best player they can get and dealing him will be a very bad thing, but typical of McHale.

[Sublime 2]

Some Seattle radio reported the Sonics had offered Ray Allen to the Celtics for Theo Ratliff and #5 pick. I think this would, at the very least, make Pierce quit complaining about having a 'co-star' (even if I think Big Al is waiting in the wings). Is Ray Allen the best we're going to get out of two of our biggest assets? Countdown to the draft is on...

[st.cronin]

Some Seattle radio reported the Sonics had offered Ray Allen to the Celtics for Theo Ratliff and #5 pick. I think this would, at the very least, make Pierce quit complaining about having a 'co-star' (even if I think Big Al is waiting in the wings). Is Ray Allen the best we're going to get out of two of our biggest assets? Countdown to the draft is on...

Seriously, I'd rather have Yi.

[Sublime 2]

Seriously, I'd rather have Yi.

I'd rather have Brewer or Green, and then use Ratliff's contract later on. But I can def. see Ainge taking Yi.

[Anthony]

why can't they just use Ratliff? not like the East is full of quality shotblocking Centers. expiring contract or not, i think he could contribute to a mediocre team that thinks it's one player away from the playoffs.

[rkmsuf]

uh yeah. it's almost like Ratliff played at all last year or plans on setting foot on the floor much this year.

guys back is a giant pretzel

[miami_fan]

why can't they just use Ratliff? not like the East is full of quality shotblocking Centers. expiring contract or not, i think he could contribute to a mediocre team that thinks it's one player away from the playoffs.

If he was the Theo of two years ago, then yes you use him. Theo has injury prone for the last couple of years.

[Anthony]

gotcha. didn't know he turned into a useless guy.

[rkmsuf]

gotcha. didn't know he turned into a useless guy.

the genius of it is that he's just able to not retire

[JonInMiddleGA]

Eh, I don't really see anyone at 11 who will necessarily be better than Ridnour.

No reason on earth they should be looking to fill the PG slot at 11.

There is simply no player in the draft available at #3 who has more value to this particular team than Conley ... which means the only likely way they'll draft him would be if they accidentally sent the wrong card to the podium.

Will St.Louis please take this team back? Or maybe Kansas City would like to pull off a two-fer today? Hell, Nashville is probably going to have a building with some vacancies on the schedule.

Hmm ... that last bit might make an interesting fall/winter challenge. Which team wins more games - the Hawks or the deconstructed Predators?

[rkmsuf]

No reason on earth they should be looking to fill the PG slot at 11.

There is simply no player in the draft available at #3 who has more value to this particular team than Conley ... which means the only likely way they'll draft him would be if they accidentally sent the wrong card to the podium.

Will St.Louis please take this team back? Or maybe Kansas City would like to pull off a two-fer today? Hell, Nashville is probably going to have a building with some vacancies on the schedule.

Hmm ... that last bit might make an interesting fall/winter challenge. Which team wins more games - the Hawks or the deconstructed Predators?

If they can get Herm Edwards to coach I'm going big money on the Predators.

[JonInMiddleGA]

If they can get Herm Edwards to coach I'm going big money on the Predators.

I'd take the Preds on that bet if they were coached by First Lady hopeful Elizabeth Edwards, former game show host Geoff Edwards, or former Olympic ski jumper Eddie "The Eagle" Edwards.

[MikeVic]

or former Olympic ski jumper Eddie "The Eagle" Edwards.

Hey pal, there's only one Eddie "The Eagle" and his name is Ed Belfour!!

[mckerney]

No reason on earth they should be looking to fill the PG slot at 11.

There is simply no player in the draft available at #3 who has more value to this particular team than Conley ... which means the only likely way they'll draft him would be if they accidentally sent the wrong card to the podium.

Will St.Louis please take this team back? Or maybe Kansas City would like to pull off a two-fer today? Hell, Nashville is probably going to have a building with some vacancies on the schedule.

Hmm ... that last bit might make an interesting fall/winter challenge. Which team wins more games - the Hawks or the deconstructed Predators?

Looks like they could be taking Yi. Gotta love it when the decision to draft someone at #3 is made because the owner wants the ability to market the team in China. Great way to build a winner.

[Atocep]

I don't think Conley would be a good choice at #3. The Hawks are in the position they're in because they need more talent, not just a point guard. Yes, PG is their biggest need, but drafting to need that high in the draft got them Sheldon Williams last year. Let someone else reach for him in a PG weak draft.

Conley is a mid 1st round pick thats living off of OSU's great season. He's not Chris Paul, he's not Deron Williams, and he's not even Rondo. Horford has all star talent thats NBA ready and they can get him at #3 because there's two once-a-decade players ahead of him.

Typical Atlanta would be to take the less talented player at #3 because he's a "need".

[JonInMiddleGA]

I don't think Conley would be a good choice at #3.

I guess that's where we disagree. I'd take Conley today, heads up, over Paul or Williams, and certainly Rondo. Matter of fact, I'll say he ends up with as many All-Star selections lifetime than any player in this draft except the top 2.

Atlanta has already seen what going the veteran PG route gets them - Claxton & Lue, a pair of overpaid career backups. They've already screwed up royally by not taking previous PG's available to them, and with the Keystone Cops front office they've got it's a lock they'll do the same again.

Instead, we'll waste a draft pick on an overhyped & unproven Chinese big who seems much more likely to me to finish his career closer to Koncak numbers than to Yao numbers. And then compliment that fuck up with wasting a selection on either another swing or PG's whose contracts will expire before they're able to contribute anything more than reserve minutes.

[Atocep]

I guess that's where we disagree. I'd take Conley today, heads up, over Paul or Williams, and certainly Rondo. Matter of fact, I'll say he ends up with as many All-Star selections lifetime than any player in this draft except the top 2.

Atlanta has already seen what going the veteran PG route gets them - Claxton & Lue, a pair of overpaid career backups. They've already screwed up royally by not taking previous PG's available to them, and with the Keystone Cops front office they've got it's a lock they'll do the same again.

Instead, we'll waste a draft pick on an overhyped & unproven Chinese big who seems much more likely to me to finish his career closer to Koncak numbers than to Yao numbers. And then compliment that fuck up with wasting a selection on either another swing or PG's whose contracts will expire before they're able to contribute anything more than reserve minutes.

Definitely where we disagree. I see Conley's upside as similar to where Devin Harris is now, which isn't bad, but its not top 3 or even top 10 good.

I just think this is a horrible year to draft a point guard. IMO Law will be a backup combo guard for a few years and then be out of the leagu. I think Crittendon has the most upside, but still not all-star caliber and he also has the biggest chance to completely bust. Pruit is probably better than Law, but not much better.

If I'm running the Hawks and I'm dead set on getting a PG I'd probably be trying to send the #11 pick somewhere to get a more established one (similar to the rumored Ridnour deal).

[Eaglesfan27]

I'm with Jon on this one at least in regards to potential. I wouldn't take Conley over Chris Paul right this second, but from the games I've seen I think he has the potential to be as good or better than Paul.

[miami_fan]

Zach Randolph to the Knicks?

Channing Frye and Stevie Franchise to the Blazers?

[ThunderingHERD]

I don't know if this has been brought up already, but everybody should check out John Hollinger's recent article rating the college prospects with a new formula he's devised. Half of me loved it, half of me was pissed because he has identified the major things that I've looked at for years when assessing a college player (e.g. STEALS, rebounds, age).

[miami_fan]

I don't know if this has been brought up already, but everybody should check out John Hollinger's recent article rating the college prospects with a new formula he's devised. Half of me loved it, half of me was pissed because he has identified the major things that I've looked at for years when assessing a college player (e.g. STEALS, rebounds, age).

I can't bring myself to get ESPN's Insider but I have seen him on ESPNews and I like his take on things.

[ThunderingHERD]

I can't bring myself to get ESPN's Insider but I have seen him on ESPNews and I like his take on things.

Damn, I see it's Insider only now... it wasn't the other day when it was first posted. I had a year's subscription but I think it ran out month ago.

[Groundhog]

From draftexpress.com:

-Mike Conley Jr. has been assured that he'll be drafted 4th. Arrangements have been made for his family to join him in Memphis for the press conference.

-Ike Diogu for the #26 pick is for real from what we are hearing. Or at least NBA people say it has legs. Houston already acquired a late 2nd round pick, but they are apparently trying to find a player who is willing to be stashed overseas because of roster spot concerns--either American or International.

-Atlanta is still seriously looking at the offer for Monta Ellis in exchange for the #11 pick.

-Wilson Chandler is going in the first round. He's in New York City.

[Atocep]

-Ike Diogu for the #26 pick is for real from what we are hearing. Or at least NBA people say it has legs. Houston already acquired a late 2nd round pick, but they are apparently trying to find a player who is willing to be stashed overseas because of roster spot concerns--either American or International.

Diogu for the #26 pick is a steal. On a per 48 minute basis he was one of the more productive players in the NBA last year and was nearly as good as a rookie. This is a guy screaming for more minutes.


-Atlanta is still seriously looking at the offer for Monta Ellis in exchange for the #11 pick.


I don't get this one. He's not a PG. He's a combo guard and wasn't as productive as his numbers show. He's not going to be as good on a team that doesn't push the ball every posession and if they ask him to play the point they'll regret it.

[ThunderingHERD]

BTW, looking at those stats is what I based my near certainty that Morrison would be a bust and crucified the Bobcats for taking him over Roy. It's also why I vehemently defended Rondo while everyone else here was bashing him (who, by the way, will be great. AVGed 13.0 PTS/5.8 REB/5.5 AST/2.5 STL/1.9 TO while shooting 55.3% starting at PG for the final 10 games of the season).

[st.cronin]

Definitely where we disagree. I see Conley's upside as similar to where Devin Harris is now, which isn't bad, but its not top 3 or even top 10 good.

wha

Conley was much more impressive in college than Devin Harris.

[Groundhog]

BTW, looking at those stats is what I based my near certainty that Morrison would be a bust and crucified the Bobcats for taking him over Roy. It's also why I vehemently defended Rondo while everyone else here was bashing him (who, by the way, will be great. AVGed 13.0 PTS/5.8 REB/5.5 AST/2.5 STL/1.9 TO while shooting 55.3% starting at PG for the final 10 games of the season).

The issue with Rondo was that he couldn't shoot worth a damn, and as someone else said in another thread, he played so bad in college he was accused of trying to throw games... He certainly played better than I and probably everyone else expected, no doubt.

[Groundhog]

Diogu for the #26 pick is a steal. On a per 48 minute basis he was one of the more productive players in the NBA last year and was nearly as good as a rookie. This is a guy screaming for more minutes.

Ike has problems with consistency, and Warriors fans weren't too sad to see him go. No idea what Indiana fans think of him though.

I don't get this one. He's not a PG. He's a combo guard and wasn't as productive as his numbers show. He's not going to be as good on a team that doesn't push the ball every posession and if they ask him to play the point they'll regret it.

Well, he's better than what they'll get at #11. He may not be a PG, but the Hawks have Joe Johnson as well, so he wont need to play the PG in the typical sense.

I think it's a good trade for the Hawks based on what Ellis showed pre-playoffs last season. If I'm the Warriors I don't make that trade unless there is someone at #11 that they are super excited about.

[Atocep]

wha

Conley was much more impressive in college than Devin Harris.

I think too many people have been driking the Conley Kool-aid. He's undersized, can't shoot, and will struggle to defend NBA guards. If Conley doesn't develop a jump shot he's a marginal starter, at best.

Stats aside (and he wasn't much more impressive), Conley looks like another Devin Harris to me at this point.

[ThunderingHERD]

The Minnesota Timberwolves' attempts to trade Kevin Garnett continued Thursday afternoon.

The Wolves have contacted the Charlotte Bobcats to try to help facilitate a deal for Garnett, one day after a potential three-way deal with the Phoenix Suns and the Atlanta Hawks hit a roadblock.

According to sources, the Wolves are asking the Bobcats to give up the No. 8 pick along with an undisclosed player. In the proposed deal, Garnett would go to Phoenix, and the Suns would send Amare Stoudemire to Charlotte. The Bobcats would also be required to take Suns guard Marcus Banks.

:eek: :eek: *drools*
...never happen, to good to be true...

[ThunderingHERD]

Stats aside (and he wasn't much more impressive), Conley looks like another Devin Harris to me at this point.

Try Tony Parker. I think Conley (or maybe Wright) is easily the 3rd best player in a deep draft.

[Atocep]

Ike has problems with consistency, and Warriors fans weren't too sad to see him go. No idea what Indiana fans think of him though.

Hard to be consistent when you don't get consistent minutes. :)

I think Nellie ball pushed him out more than anything. I think he'll thrive playing next to Yao in Houston. He needs minutes.



Well, he's better than what they'll get at #11. He may not be a PG, but the Hawks have Joe Johnson as well, so he wont need to play the PG in the typical sense.

I think it's a good trade for the Hawks based on what Ellis showed pre-playoffs last season. If I'm the Warriors I don't make that trade unless there is someone at #11 that they are super excited about.

On a per-posession basis he wasn't really anything more than average. I'd rather take a shot at a guy like Nick Young or Rodney Stuckey if they just plan on playing Joe Johnson at point and Ellis at the 2. If they think he can play the point (I don't), then I think the deal makes more sense.

[miami_fan]

Try Tony Parker. I think Conley (or maybe Wright) is easily the 3rd best player in a deep draft.

That is who I was thinking of as well.

[Groundhog]

Parker has 2-3 inches on Conley.

I think Conley is a good prospect and easily the best PG prospect in the draft, but I don't think he's even top 8 material. Not in a draft like this.

[Atocep]

Try Tony Parker. I think Conley (or maybe Wright) is easily the 3rd best player in a deep draft.

Name another player like Tony Parker. Parker is the rare small PG that can defend and gets by without 3-point range. Parker has developed one of the best mid-range games of any PG in the NBA, which Conley doesn't have yet.

Right now Conley can't score unless he's right next to the basket. To his credit, he realises it and doesn't try and do things he can't, but he has to have some sort of a jump shot or he won't make it.

Conley also won't get anywhere near the level of coaching Parker got in San Antonio.

[k0ruptr]

According to DraftExpress, Mike Conley has been assured he will be drafted 4th by memphis, and arangements have been made for his family to join him in Memphis for the press conference.

Also, apparently its the #5 pick, delonte west, and ratliff for Ray Allen.

seems a whole lot to give up for Allen.

[Groundhog]

I hope Atlanta takes him at 3, just to screw his folks around. ;)

[DeToxRox]

Danny Ainge is the worst GM in the NBA.

[Groundhog]

*shock* Oden number 1???

[miami_fan]

So we get another forward for the Hawks? Geesh

[st.cronin]

I don't think Tony Parker's the right comp for Conley. To me he's a dead ringer for Kevin Johnson.