Werewolf LI Major League (GAME OVER!!! INDIANS--GOOD GUYS--WIN!!!)

[hoopsguy]

hoops: I think Gonzo's story checks out all around though. I agree the timeline is conducive to the argument you're giving, but Gonzo's explanation is reasonable.

Help me understand which of the following is reasonable:
- he scanned me for supporting DT's Internet story after the deadline to submit that scan result?
- he got the result saying I was a wolf, but voted first for another player?
- I decided to get cute as a wolf by not only winning games, but also by burying another wolf? Barkeep, you were the 2nd vote on Pass - guess who was first?

For people who have played with me as a wolf before, I'm absolutely shocked that you think I would sabotage my own team to generate trust. As a wolf, I know I'm a likely scan candidate early in games. I'll go out of my way to draw the attention to me, not to set one of them up to die.

Look at the last 30 minutes of yesterday with Pass, if you don't think it is compelling enough that I cast the blame on him initially and left the vote there for the duration. I had every opportunity to help him out prior to him going with the fake reveal.

The idea that I'm playing the game as a wolf Scout is also pretty preposterous when Chief replied directly to the question about the good guy roles. No one has come forward to claim that role - because I am the Scout. I know it isn't as sexy as being the seer and giving you a wolf, but the information I'm providing is accurate. Which I would really hope counted for something.

[hoopsguy]

Do we take this to mean that it's possible that a wolf has one of the roles? This could be the balancing mechanism for only 2 wolves, as the source material would only suggest two bad guys.

I'm not going to spell anything outright, but this is a standard WW game underneath the hood.

Here is the material on the use of good guy roles - asked initially by Barkeep last night and answered by Chief Rum.

If you accept that the good guy roles are equally likely to have started with villagers - which I think you have to based on the response here - then it should be equally damning that no one has come forward to refute either the Seer claim or the Scout claim.

However, since there is no one coming forward to refute the seer claim, despite the fact that there was no kill last night, I'm dead today on a fake seer reveal.

[Gonzo]

- he scanned me for supporting DT's Internet story after the deadline to submit that scan result?

I scanned you beacuse I thought you were good and was wanting to build a COT. Nothing to do with DT's internet story.

[Barkeep49]

Hoops: Why isn't it just as likely that you were converted last night as Gonzo? In that way you play against Pass was correct for the team you were on at the time, but then last night, prior to your scan, you were converted?

[Barkeep49]

Help me understand which of the following is reasonable:
- he scanned me for supporting DT's Internet story after the deadline to submit that scan result?
- he got the result saying I was a wolf, but voted first for another player?
- I decided to get cute as a wolf by not only winning games, but also by burying another wolf? Barkeep, you were the 2nd vote on Pass - guess who was first?

For people who have played with me as a wolf before, I'm absolutely shocked that you think I would sabotage my own team to generate trust. As a wolf, I know I'm a likely scan candidate early in games. I'll go out of my way to draw the attention to me, not to set one of them up to die.

Look at the last 30 minutes of yesterday with Pass, if you don't think it is compelling enough that I cast the blame on him initially and left the vote there for the duration. I had every opportunity to help him out prior to him going with the fake reveal.

The idea that I'm playing the game as a wolf Scout is also pretty preposterous when Chief replied directly to the question about the good guy roles. No one has come forward to claim that role - because I am the Scout. I know it isn't as sexy as being the seer and giving you a wolf, but the information I'm providing is accurate. Which I would really hope counted for something.
Well as I stated in my last post, perhaps you're the on who was converted, not Gonzo. And I think it's entirely possible that a seer wouldn't come right out and finger a wolf.

I admit you have me doubting things, but even with that doubt I feel like you're the smarter play, for reasons discussed earlier in the day.

[hoopsguy]

Possible Questions/Answers to today's events.

Question #1: Why wouldn't hoops, if he was evil, counter-claim seer?
Incorrect Answer: Because he isn't a smart enough player to recognize optimal strategy.
Correct Answer: I would counter-claim seer in this position, and get into a contest of PM details with Gonzo, looking to craft an emotional response that is more in line with people's expectations than the factual information given by the seer. But since I'm not a wolf, I'm sticking to the information I have rather than polluting you with fiction.

Question #2: Why would Hoops sacrifice one of his wolf teammates yesterday when he was in no immediate danger at the outset of the day?
Incorrect Answer: Because Hoops decided to get "too cute" in building trust and it blew up in his face.
Correct Answer: Hoops would look out for his teammates early in the game - there is a certain amount of attention that comes with being the guy who has 2x as many posts as anyone else in the game. That works to the benefit of the other wolves and the detriment of Hoops (who is talking like Jack Partman in this post).

Question #3: Why would the wolves have targetted Gonzo last night to convert? How in the world would they know he is the seer given his lack of posts?
Incorrect Answer: The wolves would not have done this. Hoops is lying and making arguments to try and support his lie.
Correct Answer: Gonzo showed his hand, along with JE, by quickly voting for Pass after the fake seer reveal last night. The wolves responded with their best guess for the seer and hit the 50% call.

Question #4: Why would Hoops support DT all game long if they were fellow wolves?
Incorrect Answer: Because that is what wolves do, they support each other.
Correct Answer: I don't know if DT is a wolf or not, but I'm not willing to accept that his actions match those of a calculating wolf. I think they are much more in line with a badly misguided villager. If I'm wrong on this, then DT has done a better job of mixing up his play than I expected.

[hoopsguy]

Hoops: Why isn't it just as likely that you were converted last night as Gonzo? In that way you play against Pass was correct for the team you were on at the time, but then last night, prior to your scan, you were converted?

Thank you for finally asking the question that I've been waiting for someone to ask!

Chief Rum, can you confirm for me, one way or the other, what the order of actions would have been last night if the seer went to scan someone who was also targetted for conversion?

If he is willing to answer that question, then I think it would potentially go a long ways towards clearing me. Unless, of course, the argument will then switch to "well, Hoops must have started as a wolf".

[hoopsguy]

Barkeep, with the vote at 6-2 I'll take having someone who is seems to be considering that I might be telling the truth here.

The last time I found myself up against it like this, in terms of the vote, was back in Alan's game. That time, I had only myself to blame because of misreading Lathum's post. I fought very hard to stay alive that game because I knew that we were goner's if I was mis-lynched. I'm in the same position this game - I don't know why the wolves are making this move today, but I have to assume that they feel like the numbers make sense to prompt it. Otherwise, fake reveal three villagers or wait another day for the reveal.

[Lathum]

Barkeep asked the question I wanted to know.

Why couldn't hoops have been converted last night?

It would explain wht CR didn't wasnt Gonzo to make any moves yet, plus hoops is a pretty good candidate for conversion since at this point the seer hadn't reveald, however, it would be a good guess that hoops would be one of the top 2 players scanned so when the seer did reveal hoops would come back good .

[Lathum]

dola- good show so far hoops!!

[Lathum]

I also see no reason why the scout can't be a wolf.

[hoopsguy]

Gonzo is getting so much more leeway here than I am it is ridiculous. He posts that he was told not to make any moves. So he interprets this as "I'm dead". OK.

He then is freed up to make his move, so his first action is not to disclose that he viewed me as a wolf, but to vote for DaddyTorgo.

Then, ten minutes later, he comes back to this and says, "Nope, not sure why I voted for the non-wolf when I'm the seer and viewed a wolf".

[hoopsguy]

Lathum, if the Scout can be a wolf then could the Duke be a wolf? The bodyguard? The seer?

Or is it only the role that I've revealed gets to be a wolf in this game?

Seriously, I know this is going to deflate your "I've been onto him all game!" thought process, but take a minute and think if you would set up a game in this manner? And if you did, if you would answer the question on roles the way that Chief Rum did last night.

[hoopsguy]

If Chief Rum answer the question that I could not have been converted, based on the order of actions, is that going to change anyone's votes? Or will it just change your arguments to state that I've been a wolf the whole time?

Because the latter is pretty frustrating to try and counter and at some point I'll decide I've got better things to do on a Friday afternoon.

[Barkeep49]

Possible Questions/Answers to today's events.

Question #1: Why wouldn't hoops, if he was evil, counter-claim seer?
Because the second claim rarely works. I can't remember a time where it did in fact. And because this clashes with the truth, that is you are the scout.

Question #2: Why would Hoops sacrifice one of his wolf teammates yesterday when he was in no immediate danger at the outset of the day?
You were converted last night. I really kind of like Lathum's suggestion that you are frequently scanned early, and after yesterday would have been pretty much the closest thing we had to a trusted villager. It was perfect timing, I would think, to convert you. And let's not forget that there was no night kill last night, only FURTHER suggesting a conversion.

Question #4: Why would Hoops support DT all game long if they were fellow wolves?
DT being a wolf is just speculation to me. The more I think about it, the more likely it is, to me, that you were a convert.

[Barkeep49]

If Chief Rum answer the question that I could not have been converted, based on the order of actions, is that going to change anyone's votes? Or will it just change your arguments to state that I've been a wolf the whole time?

Because the latter is pretty frustrating to try and counter and at some point I'll decide I've got better things to do on a Friday afternoon.
If answered, I'd seriously have to re-evaulate things, if it was answered in your favor.

[Lathum]

You are claiming the seer could be converted so why not the scout.

[Barkeep49]

You are claiming the seer could be converted so why not the scout.
No reason, but I think hoops is claiming that the seer would not get his scan after the conversion.

[Lathum]

No reason, but I think hoops is claiming that the seer would not get his scan after the conversion.

I understand that

[path12]

Personal rant ... I'm extremely bitter about how this is going down, as it will be the first time I've ever been hung as a villager by the villagers in 30+ games of playing WW. Particularly after I've played what I thought was one of my best villager games.


Jack Parkman is confident that your streak will remain intact, since you are a wolf.

[DaddyTorgo]

seriously. I think gonzo is going to try to skate through without having to explain his strange actions last night so that they can get the lynch on you hoops. Has he explained them enough to satisfy anyone?

[Lathum]

Hoops puts up a compeling argument but I agree that 90% of the risk would be lynching Gonzo considering he can clear someone else hopefully before he is night killed

[hoopsguy]

Actually, that isn't what I'm claiming.

I'm asking Chief to clarify the order of actions to show that it would be impossible for the seer to view the convert. If the seer view goes before the conversion attempt, then the seer would see a villager, not a wolf.

Which would prove I was not converted last night.

I have no idea what Chief's answer will be, or if he will answer the question, but if he answers it I have a 50% chance of being "cleared" of being converted last night. Which means that you have to examine my full body of work in evaluating the "seer claim".

[path12]

Path, and others who are putting credence in the "no other seer has come forward" argument.

No one has come forward to dispute me as the Scout either. Chief has said that this is a straight-forward game. If no one disputes that I'm the scout, then why does the lack of contention on Gonzo's claim mean more than the lack of contention on my claim?

I don't have time to find it because of being swamped today, and I don't know whether or not I'll be back before deadline, but I recall a post from Chief where he was very non-specific about the ability of the wolves to have a role. I remember because someone said how much would that suck to have a wolf seer........

[Lathum]

seriously. I think gonzo is going to try to skate through without having to explain his strange actions last night so that they can get the lynch on you hoops. Has he explained them enough to satisfy anyone?

it doesn't matter. All the risk lies in trusting hoops.

Lets say we believe hoops and lynch Gonzo and it ends up he was telling the truth about being the seer? The obviously we lynch hoops next but IMO anyone who feels we should do this the other way around doesn't have the teams best interests at heart

Hoops has to go first

[hoopsguy]

As a wolf, I would not ask that question of Chief because I would know the answer damns me.

As a wolf, I basically try to play it like a trial attorney, only asking questions that I already know the answer. And, of course, that are favorable to me.

As a villager, I'm trying to keep my streak alive with whatever tools are available to me.

[path12]

ya know what. fuck that. Maybe gonzo is the seer, but he's wrong about me and he's pushing extremely hard considering he has no information. Not a very seer-esque thing to do. I can't vote with him on the basis of that.

VOTE GONZO

*shakes head*

Jack Parkman repeats: No no no no no no no no no no no. That is not the play DT, and you should know that.

[hoopsguy]

I don't have time to find it because of being swamped today, and I don't know whether or not I'll be back before deadline, but I recall a post from Chief where he was very non-specific about the ability of the wolves to have a role. I remember because someone said how much would that suck to have a wolf seer........

I've quoted it again, along with Chief's response, in Post #1002.

[hoopsguy]

it doesn't matter. All the risk lies in trusting hoops.

Lets say we believe hoops and lynch Gonzo and it ends up he was telling the truth about being the seer? The obviously we lynch hoops next but IMO anyone who feels we should do this the other way around doesn't have the teams best interests at heart

Hoops has to go first

I hope you guys have the opportunity to win the game after the 1:1 trade. I'm very concerned that it won't work out quite that way, given that the wolves initiated this action today.

I would have been just fine being in this position yesterday because I would have 100% believed that we would benefit from the exchange, even if it ended up as a 2:1 somehow.

[Lathum]

Seems like DT is desperate.

He is the leader to get my vote tomorrow.

[Gonzo]

Give it a rest Hoops. I'm the seer, I've scanned you, you're a wolf. All this BSing "he might have been converted!" is clutching at straws.

[hoopsguy]

*shakes head*

Jack Parkman repeats: No no no no no no no no no no no. That is not the play DT, and you should know that.

Why wouldn't you want him to vote for the person he believes is a wolf? When I show up as a villager, do you guys benefit from a unanimous block on me?

If you are going to suspect him for this move, it should be because you are worried that he knows exactly how this story will end rather than he isn't making the "correct math play".

Path, you've been convinced I'm a wolf two times in the past where we've gone to war as villagers. Have I acted "too much like Hoops" this game? Your certainty in this, and your vocal actions to keep people from even considering my position, don't strike me as being the measured, considered responses you normally bring to the table. You know that Gonzo's story sucks, but you haven't even considered that based on your posts. Don't hide behind the numbers tomorrow.

[Lathum]

I hope you guys have the opportunity to win the game after the 1:1 trade. I'm very concerned that it won't work out quite that way, given that the wolves initiated this action today.

I would have been just fine being in this position yesterday because I would have 100% believed that we would benefit from the exchange, even if it ended up as a 2:1 somehow.

Well considering there are 9 people left, including a the BG I don't see a scenerio where the wolves feel the need to make this play here.

Lets say 3 wolves started and the converted last night. Thats still a 6-3 ratio, no need for them to make that play.

I think it likely you are a wolf and DT is the other, you guys know he will be next and are making the strong play today towards Gonzo.

[DaddyTorgo]

maybe not. but we'll wait to see what CR has to say about the order of night actions.

[path12]

Possible Questions/Answers to today's events.

Question #1: Why wouldn't hoops, if he was evil, counter-claim seer?
Incorrect Answer: Because he isn't a smart enough player to recognize optimal strategy.
Correct Answer: I would counter-claim seer in this position, and get into a contest of PM details with Gonzo, looking to craft an emotional response that is more in line with people's expectations than the factual information given by the seer. But since I'm not a wolf, I'm sticking to the information I have rather than polluting you with fiction.

Question #2: Why would Hoops sacrifice one of his wolf teammates yesterday when he was in no immediate danger at the outset of the day?
Incorrect Answer: Because Hoops decided to get "too cute" in building trust and it blew up in his face.
Correct Answer: Hoops would look out for his teammates early in the game - there is a certain amount of attention that comes with being the guy who has 2x as many posts as anyone else in the game. That works to the benefit of the other wolves and the detriment of Hoops (who is talking like Jack Partman in this post).

Question #3: Why would the wolves have targetted Gonzo last night to convert? How in the world would they know he is the seer given his lack of posts?
Incorrect Answer: The wolves would not have done this. Hoops is lying and making arguments to try and support his lie.
Correct Answer: Gonzo showed his hand, along with JE, by quickly voting for Pass after the fake seer reveal last night. The wolves responded with their best guess for the seer and hit the 50% call.

Question #4: Why would Hoops support DT all game long if they were fellow wolves?
Incorrect Answer: Because that is what wolves do, they support each other.
Correct Answer: I don't know if DT is a wolf or not, but I'm not willing to accept that his actions match those of a calculating wolf. I think they are much more in line with a badly misguided villager. If I'm wrong on this, then DT has done a better job of mixing up his play than I expected.

My God, Pedro is good. This is amazing to catch up on. Jack Parkman is suitably impressed.

But the fact is, THERE HAS BEEN NO COUNTER TO GONZO'S REVEAL! And in that case, YOU GIVE HIM THE BENEFIT OF THE DOUBT!

Jack Parkman is not worried about conversions at this point, he is not concerned that a scout may or may not be a wolf, he is not concerned with anything other than GETTING THE SCANNED WOLF LYNCHED!

If Gonzo is fake, he is a wolf and is lynched tomorrow. There is no benefit otherwise for the move, and even if you take conversion as a possibility you are going to have a helluva time explaining to Jack Parkman how a 8-1 or 7-2 villager/wolf count before conversion has gotten bad enough that we are about to lose.

[hoopsguy]

Give it a rest Hoops. I'm the seer, I've scanned you, you're a wolf. All this BSing "he might have been converted!" is clutching at straws.

If you wanted someone to go quietly into the night, you picked the wrong guy to finger. That is 100% true no matter what side of the game I'm playing.

[Lathum]

Give it a rest Hoops. I'm the seer, I've scanned you, you're a wolf. All this BSing "he might have been converted!" is clutching at straws.

yes but it is fun.

Also I know this is only your second game but Hoops in many peoples opinions is the best overall player ( mine included) so I think people are more inclined to give him the respect he deserves rather then write him off in a situation like this.

That being said I hope Gonzo is right, allthough I won't feel to bad if I am wrong about this one ;)

[path12]

seriously. I think gonzo is going to try to skate through without having to explain his strange actions last night so that they can get the lynch on you hoops. Has he explained them enough to satisfy anyone?

He doesn't have to explain them. We will know by what hoops comes up as. You're really overthinking this.

[DaddyTorgo]

i'm with hoops on this one. Suspect me if you want, but it worries me that one way or another the wolves initiated this and thus feel like they have something to gain out of it.

and like hoops said, what sort of benefit would we get from a unanimous block on him?

think lathum...if hoops and I were both wolves, would I be so vocal here today? no...i would have voted gonzo and then dissapeared all day more or less, instead of sitting here bringing this stuff up again anda gain.

[path12]

Actually, that isn't what I'm claiming.

I'm asking Chief to clarify the order of actions to show that it would be impossible for the seer to view the convert. If the seer view goes before the conversion attempt, then the seer would see a villager, not a wolf.

Which would prove I was not converted last night.

I have no idea what Chief's answer will be, or if he will answer the question, but if he answers it I have a 50% chance of being "cleared" of being converted last night. Which means that you have to examine my full body of work in evaluating the "seer claim".

No it doesn't. I don't think you've been converted. I think you've been a wolf from the start.

[path12]

I've quoted it again, along with Chief's response, in Post #1002.

Yeah, and I noticed you didn't include the original quote from Chief. Whereabouts in the thread is that?

[Lathum]

think lathum...if hoops and I were both wolves, would I be so vocal here today? no...i would have voted gonzo and then dissapeared all day more or less, instead of sitting here bringing this stuff up again anda gain.

I disagree with this. Either way a vote on Gonzo looks bad if hoops comes up wolf. I think you guys ( as wolves) realize you are cooked and are making a last ditch effort.

[path12]

Path, you've been convinced I'm a wolf two times in the past where we've gone to war as villagers. Have I acted "too much like Hoops" this game? Your certainty in this, and your vocal actions to keep people from even considering my position, don't strike me as being the measured, considered responses you normally bring to the table. You know that Gonzo's story sucks, but you haven't even considered that based on your posts. Don't hide behind the numbers tomorrow.

Very simple, hoops. You were scanned as a wolf this game by someone who hasn't been countered. Not the same thing at all as my read on you being wrong before.

[Gonzo]

think lathum...if hoops and I were both wolves, would I be so vocal here today? no...i would have voted gonzo and then dissapeared all day more or less, instead of sitting here bringing this stuff up again anda gain.

So...voting for the Seer after he's revealed means you're good?

[hoopsguy]

My God, Pedro is good. This is amazing to catch up on. Jack Parkman is suitably impressed.

But the fact is, THERE HAS BEEN NO COUNTER TO GONZO'S REVEAL! And in that case, YOU GIVE HIM THE BENEFIT OF THE DOUBT!

Jack Parkman is not worried about conversions at this point, he is not concerned that a scout may or may not be a wolf, he is not concerned with anything other than GETTING THE SCANNED WOLF LYNCHED!

If Gonzo is fake, he is a wolf and is lynched tomorrow. There is no benefit otherwise for the move, and even if you take conversion as a possibility you are going to have a helluva time explaining to Jack Parkman how a 8-1 or 7-2 villager/wolf count before conversion has gotten bad enough that we are about to lose.

I give him credit for no counter-claim, just as I would ask that you give me credit for my role with no counter-claim.

No kill last night screams conversion to me. You absolutely, positively should be worried about conversions under those circumstances.

As far as the numbers, I don't believe that we started with two wolves. I posted on this last night - there is absolutely nothing in the rules that suggests that there were two wolves at the outset. There were two named bad guys, but the language is very neutral on the number of wolves. I think that we've been making a very bad assumption on this point all game long. There were four named good-guy roles to start the game. 14 players, 4 good roles, 2 wolves? Nah, that doesn't add up at all.

As far as not getting a one-for-one trade, I'm concerned about something like a brutal wolf, an ability to dodge a lynch, or some other wolf mechanism. That almost has to be there for them to launch this initiative today.

[path12]

And dola, if you were'nt so friggin' good at this game, there would be no reason for me to shout at people. But you are effectively confusing them and sewing doubt, and for that I tip my hat to you. There is nobody else who plays this game who could get even this close to escaping this position.

[Gonzo]

No kill last night screams conversion to me.

It's screams bodyguard to me, you know, the role that's actually public rather than some hidden game mechanic you might be making up.

[hoopsguy]

No it doesn't. I don't think you've been converted. I think you've been a wolf from the start.

Cool, so why did I take such an active role in derailing Pass yesterday when we were playing together as wolves?

Seriously, I'm interested in this not just from the perspective of this game, but to understand just how twisted you guys think I am as a wolf.

[Lathum]

There is nobody else who plays this game who could get even this close to escaping this position.

I resent that!!!

and coming from YOU of all people ;)

[path12]

And Jack Parkman is out. He will be stepping up tonight.

Pedro, don't worry, Jack Parkman will not hide behind the numbers if by some infintestimal chance you are good. Jack Parkman will be happy to be lynched if wrong. Right after Gonzo of course.

[path12]

I resent that!!!

and coming from YOU of all people ;)

:D

[hoopsguy]

It's screams bodyguard to me, you know, the role that's actually public rather than some hidden game mechanic you might be making up.

I think we both know that isn't the case.

You know it because you are fake revealing here - likely after having been converted.
I know it because I'm the target of your fake reveal.

If there was a bodyguard block to report, I highly doubt they would sit tight on the sidelines and let this have escalated to the point it has without helping us make a better decision.

[path12]

Cool, so why did I take such an active role in derailing Pass yesterday when we were playing together as wolves?

Seriously, I'm interested in this not just from the perspective of this game, but to understand just how twisted you guys think I am as a wolf.

Wolves toss other wolves under the bus all the time. You gained a lot of early trust with stepping up (which probably got you safe from scan in the first couple nights), and then to cement it you offer up Pass. I don't think it's a strange play at all as a wolf, especially if you did get a conversion last night. And I think it is 100% a play you would be willing to make.

[hoopsguy]

I was hoping Jack would answer Post #1048 before returning to his droolers ... er, fans.

[path12]

This has been a very fun game so far. OK, now I'm really out.

[Lathum]

I think it's more likely conversion, however if it was a BG block I think the smart play is to stay quiet.

If the BG reveals today they become a night target since the obvious wolf play is to go for Gonzo.

IF I was the BG I would protect Gonzo tonight, reveal tomorrow since they will have to kill Gonzo tomorrow you buy yourself more time.

[hoopsguy]

Wolves toss other wolves under the bus all the time. You gained a lot of early trust with stepping up (which probably got you safe from scan in the first couple nights), and then to cement it you offer up Pass. I don't think it's a strange play at all as a wolf, especially if you did get a conversion last night. And I think it is 100% a play you would be willing to make.

There would be zero need to do it in a game where the wolves have jumped to a 4-0 lead and have no meaningful pressure on them.

I don't think you are going to bother reading the first two days all over again, but I posted my suspicions of Pass on Day 1 before my vote, and then returned to this subject on Day 3 with my published trust list. I don't believe anyone mentioned him as a suspect at all in between those two posts. He was free and clear, and that isn't something that I just toss away as a wolf.

I'll look to ditch a troubled teammate if I think it is a better long-term play for our team, but I don't think that Pass or I were in any trouble at the time I started cranking up the heat on him. There was zero incentive to do this. I try really hard not to make zero-value plays in werewolf.

[hoopsguy]

I think it's more likely conversion, however if it was a BG block I think the smart play is to stay quiet.

If the BG reveals today they become a night target since the obvious wolf play is to go for Gonzo.

IF I was the BG I would protect Gonzo tonight, reveal tomorrow since they will have to kill Gonzo tomorrow you buy yourself more time.

Or the bodyguard can guard the next most likely candidate, hoping that the wolves won't go to Gonzo for fear of being blocked.

This is a really fun part of being the bodyguard. And a scenario that maps out to Cronin's "ideal play" scenario, where I usually end up having answers that are much more situation-driven than math-driven.

[Lathum]

I don't think you are going to bother reading the first two days all over again, but I posted my suspicions of Pass on Day 1 before my vote, and then returned to this subject on Day 3 with my published trust list. I don't believe anyone mentioned him as a suspect at all in between those two posts. He was free and clear, and that isn't something that I just toss away as a wolf.


so that when you were in this situation you could go back and try to use that to your advantage

[Gonzo]

If there was a bodyguard block to report, I highly doubt they would sit tight on the sidelines and let this have escalated to the point it has without helping us make a better decision.

If I were the bodyguard and did block the wolf night kill, I'd argue for lynching you since there is no pressing need to reveal. It's pretty obvious you are a wolf, so it wouldn't make sense to reveal when you're going to be lynched anyway.

[hoopsguy]

Sure, and I posted the list on Day 3, and pressured him to start on Day 3, so I could use that to my advantage, right?

I stepped it up each of the first two days to use it for my advantage, right?

I did all of this, while practically begging to be viewed with my high-profile actions and constant posting, as a wolf looking to earn trust, right?

[hoopsguy]

Gonzo, I'm glad you've been able to spend so much time in the thread today. In the 1.5 games you've played I've never seen you as active as you've been.

I'm sure it is because you want to make sure that we lynch a wolf, right? No other motivations, no concerns about having to massage your story if/when people actually start looking at the chain of events, right?

[hoopsguy]

Out for a couple of hours.

If people have any questions that they would like for me to respond to, please post them. I understand why you are following Gonzo here, but I don't have to like seeing you guys make a wrong decision. If there is anything that is unclear about my arguments, please allow me the opportunity to respond.

If there is nothing that I can say that will move you guys, then just go ahead and put in a Nightfall vote. Again, it is bad for the Indians to do so but we don't have to waste each others time on a Friday night when site participation is usually low already. If there are enough of them in there to where I can't win today, I'll put in the Nightfall as well if Chief's answer to my question does not exonerate me as a conversion candidate.

[Lathum]

Ouy until deadline.

If we are wrong sorry hoops

[Barkeep49]

I honestly believe hoops was a villager on days 1, 2, & 3, and was converted last night. His being the scout matches up all too well to his desire to see us win games. His pointing us towards pass, says the same.

[hoopsguy]

So if Chief Rum comes back with an explanation for mechanic order that makes it impossible for me to have been converted last night, yet viewed as a villager by a seer, then I'm hoping you would change your vote.

And I'm hoping that there are enough other people around to do the same. Fact is, I don't think that Chief will comment on the game mechanics under these circumstances. I hope he will, but I also hoped that you would consider the issues with the reveal and that hasn't happened except for Torgo.

I hope you guys enjoy being taunted all weekend long by Gonzo once results are posted :( :( :(

[PurdueBrad]

Guys, I am gone until late, late tonight. Hoops, if we are wrong (me wrong for the second night in a row), I give you my sincerest apologies (and my embarrassment should be fun as well). Good luck guys, hope we're right.

[Jonathan Ezarik]

Getting caught up on all of today's goodness.

Well I'm dead. See you all.

Alright then.

VOTE DADDYTORGO

For the reasons stated above, re the "when I'm a wolf I blame internet connections for not voting" thing.

Phew. I thought I'd been killed that night.

Anyway, I'm the Seer. Night one I scanned Lathum (good, no role), night two was Barkeep (good, no role) and night three was Hoopsguy (wolf).

In summary, I found it interesting that once DaddyTorgo was caught out with his "faulty internet connection" play, Hoopsguy jumped to defend him along with Ezarik. This leads me to believe that Torgo is a wolf, along with Hoopsguy and possibly JE.

I'll probably be scanning Ezarik next night to confirm his suspected wolfiness, so long as the Bodyguard wasn't protecting me this night. If by some miracle I survive after that, I might try out KWhit or that Parkman fellow.

Anyway.

UNVOTE DADDYTORGO (for now)
VOTE HOOPSGUY

I know he tried to explain this later, but what was his excuse again for believing that he had been killed?


After I got the PM saying you were a wolf, Chief Rum said: "Do me a favor and don't say anything (if you were planning to) until I post the night game action. I am writing right now. Thanks!". I thought I was a goner.

So what happened during the night PM? Why did you think you were dead? Were you attacked by the wolves or just happen to scan one?

As I was just saying to Cronin, it's probably Sod's law that the bodyguard's protected me last night and stopped them killing. Oh well.

If the BG protected you and you knew that from your PM, why did you think you were dead?

It's screams bodyguard to me, you know, the role that's actually public rather than some hidden game mechanic you might be making up.

I'll probably be scanning Ezarik next night to confirm his suspected wolfiness, so long as the Bodyguard wasn't protecting me this night.

Which is it? Did the bodyguard protect you last night or not? Were you attacked last night or not?

[hoopsguy]

JE, have fun catching up with this. See you in a few.

[Jonathan Ezarik]

JE, have fun catching up with this. See you in a few.

I'm all caught up. I haven't read anything from Gonzo to persuade me. The thing that really gets me is him thinking that he's dead. If the PM made it clear that he was attacked and the bodyguard saved him, why did he think he was dead?

[Jonathan Ezarik]

Since you're in the thread, Gonzo, do you have an answer for me? If the bodyguard protected you last night and you know this from your PM, why did you think you had been killed?

[Gonzo]

I may or may not have been attacked, I have no idea. I thought I was dead because Chief Rum told me not to say anything before the night actions had been posted.

[Jonathan Ezarik]

I may or may not have been attacked, I have no idea. I thought I was dead because Chief Rum told me not to say anything before the night actions had been posted.

How does that mesh with this?

As I was just saying to Cronin, it's probably Sod's law that the bodyguard's protected me last night and stopped them killing. Oh well.

[Gonzo]

...what?

How do they contradict each other?

[Jonathan Ezarik]

Really? The second post about Sod's law sure makes it sound like you thought you were attacked last night and the bodyguard saved you.

[Gonzo]

Really? The second post about Sod's law sure makes it sound like you thought you were attacked last night and the bodyguard saved you.

*shrug*

Your guess is as good as mine.

[Jonathan Ezarik]

*shrug*

Your guess is as good as mine.

Pardon? You don't know what you meant when you said that the bodyguard must have protected you last night?

[Gonzo]

Pardon? You don't know what you meant when you said that the bodyguard must have protected you last night?

I said that it would probably be my luck if the bodyguard did happen to protect me last night. It was a philosophical musing more than anything.

[DaddyTorgo]

guys...gonzo appears to clearly be full of it.

[Jonathan Ezarik]

guys...gonzo appears to clearly be full of it.

I don't think it matters for tonight's vote. Hoopsguy is going down. There aren't enough people around to change their votes, and I don't get the impression that they would even if they were around. Hell, I'm not even sure where I'm going to vote yet.

[Gonzo]

guys...gonzo appears to clearly be full of it.

You would say that, since you are quite clearly Hoopsguy's packmate. ;)

[hoopsguy]

Jonathan, if you believe Gonzo is lying then vote for him. That will put it at 6-3. Who knows what the last 100 minutes might bring? But the chances of getting the right lynch only go down if you don't cast a vote. And you would also lose a step-it-up in the process, so get it in one way or the other.

[Gonzo]

And you would also lose a step-it-up in the process, so get it in one way or the other.

I guess that you used your last "step up" to sabotage the game last night.

[hoopsguy]

I would like to have the opportunity to use my last step up tonight.

[hoopsguy]

JE, KWhit - if you guys have questions about the positions, Gonzo and I are both around. I know I'll be happy to answer.

[Jonathan Ezarik]

In thinking all this over dinner, I've come to a decision. I don't doubt that hoopsguy is the scout since no one has come out and claimed the role. I also don't doubt that Gonzo is the seer for the same reasons. Therefore since both are telling the truth, the question is: Which one could be evil?

I think the seer being evil/being converted is a horrible blow to the good guys and I just don't see that as being a game mechanic.

The scout, on the other hand, almost reads like an anti-seer. Which role does that benefit the most? The villagers? How does the scout knowing who the best players are benefit other villagers if he can't talk about it? Because once he mentions which players are more likely to win games, they become targets for the wolves.

So I don't see how it's a helpful role to the villagers, but it is a very helpful role for the wolves. Want to know who to take out with a night kill? How about the guy that has the best chance to win the game for us?

While I'm tempted to give hoopsguy a pass just because of his brilliant attempt to deflect blame, in the end I'm here to win the game.

VOTE HOOPSGUY

[Jonathan Ezarik]

Oh, and Gonzo, scan DT tonight. I'm willing to bet my life that he's a wolf. If he's not, you can lynch me tomorrow. That's how sure I am of his guilt.

[hoopsguy]

JE, so be it. But there is no reason to think that one role could be converted and another role would be immune.

I'm not here to deflect blame, I'm also here to win the game. It looks like you guys get to try and do it without me.

[Gonzo]

Oh, and Gonzo, scan DT tonight. I'm willing to bet my life that he's a wolf. If he's not, you can lynch me tomorrow. That's how sure I am of his guilt.

I'm scanning you tomorrow. No need to waste a scan on someone who I'm 99% sure is a wolf.

[Jonathan Ezarik]

JE, so be it. But there is no reason to think that one role could be converted and another role would be immune.

Except I don't buy the conversion angle. The scout would start as a wolf.

[hoopsguy]

Oh, and Gonzo, scan DT tonight. I'm willing to bet my life that he's a wolf. If he's not, you can lynch me tomorrow. That's how sure I am of his guilt.

See, that's the thing. There is almost no chance that he is a wolf given his steadfast defense of me today.

You aren't going to trust a single word that Gonzo says tomorrow, so telling him to scan Daddy Torgo is pretty useless. But I would encourage you to not turn towards DT as a default selection. Look at the people who made wrong votes on Passacaglia first. I know DT didn't make a vote there, but that is far better than voting for Lathum on that day.

[Jonathan Ezarik]

I'm scanning you tomorrow. No need to waste a scan on someone who I'm 99% sure is a wolf.

I'm confused again. Are you 99% sure I'm a wolf?

[Jonathan Ezarik]

See, that's the thing. There is almost no chance that he is a wolf given his steadfast defense of me today.

Are you admitting that you're a wolf now? :)

[hoopsguy]

Except I don't buy the conversion angle. The scout would start as a wolf.

Then I've got yet another person who really has no idea how I would play as a wolf. I've argued time and time again that I would not be as destructive to my own team as my track record this game suggests (as a wolf). But everyone seems to believe "Hoops is crazy enough to do anything". I'm not - there are generally pretty straight-forward principles behind my actions.

[Gonzo]

See, that's the thing. There is almost no chance that he is a wolf given his steadfast defense of me today.

The evidence for DaddyTorgo:

He used the play whereby he blamed faulty internet connection for not voting/being around at the deadline which he freely admitted in previous games he uses when he is a wolf.

As soon as me and the good Lathum pointed this out to the village, you instantly jumped to defend him (before I revealed).

After I revealed, he was the first to try and defend you.

You are now defending him again.

Seems pretty airtight to me.

[Gonzo]

I'm confused again. Are you 99% sure I'm a wolf?

I'm a bit iffy with regards to you, but a scan'll clear things up.

[hoopsguy]

Are you admitting that you're a wolf now? :)

Nope, and I'm not the seer either. But try to put yourself in the position of a wolf as you consider a vote. Why would he put himself out there like this, being the only person defending me?

When I die a villager, people will say "only a wolf could know that Hoops was a villager".

[hoopsguy]

The evidence for DaddyTorgo:

He used the play whereby he blamed faulty internet connection for not voting/being around at the deadline which he freely admitted in previous games he uses when he is a wolf.

As soon as me and the good Lathum pointed this out to the village, you instantly jumped to defend him (before I revealed).

After I revealed, he was the first to try and defend you.

You are now defending him again.

Seems pretty airtight to me.

I was kind of confused reading along with last game. Have you played werewolf before FOFC?

Airtight - I do not think it means what you think it means.

[Jonathan Ezarik]

But everyone seems to believe "Hoops is crazy enough to do anything". I'm not - there are generally pretty straight-forward principles behind my actions.

Trust me, I don't think your play is crazy. Maybe crazy like a fox, but not crazy. For example, you calling out Celeval on day one asking if he got his step up in right before we learned of his death is pretty clever. How do we know that his character is rated as high as you say it is? We have to take you for your word on that. And since you knew he was going to be the first wolf target, it was simple to call him out like that right before he died. Well, not simple, but smart. That takes some serious forethought and I applaud you.

[hoopsguy]

JE, the easier explanation is that I've told the truth. Seriously, I just brought that out as a single example. If I showed you every example of a quote where I was giving info on being the scout, you would have to think I'm not just clever but compulsive to the point of being unhinged.

[DaddyTorgo]

don't let gonzo lead a charge on me without scanning me. That would be irresponsible.

I am a villager. The fact that gonzo refuses to scan me and calls that a "wasted" scan should give you all pause.

[DaddyTorgo]

clearly this is the play: get hoops lynched and then prey on my play this game to call me "99% a wolf" and get my lynched and you guys are just about at endgame, if not there.

[Jonathan Ezarik]

clearly this is the play: get hoops lynched and then prey on my play this game to call me "99% a wolf" and get my lynched and you guys are just about at endgame, if not there.

If hoopsguy turns up good, Gonzo goes tomorrow. You won't have to worry about that.

[Gonzo]

clearly this is the play: get hoops lynched and then prey on my play this game to call me "99% a wolf" and get my lynched and you guys are just about at endgame, if not there.

If I get hoops lynched and he's a villager, then I get lynched the day after. That play wouldn't work.

[KWhit]

JE, KWhit - if you guys have questions about the positions, Gonzo and I are both around. I know I'll be happy to answer.


Heh. Sorry, but I'm not moving my vote. I'm not sure who's telling the truth, but there are two things that make me keep my vote on you.

Would a new player - who's just had 1-2 games under his belt make a fake seer reveal? It's not likely.
Even if he's lying, it is a LOT less of a risk voting for you and losing a scout than it is losing a SEER! You have GOT to see that % play.I'm happy with the 1 for 1 trade at this point and the fact that you don't see that makes me even more suspicious of you.

[KWhit]

clearly this is the play: get hoops lynched and then prey on my play this game to call me "99% a wolf" and get my lynched and you guys are just about at endgame, if not there.

Umm.... No.

If Gonzo's lying he'll go next.

[hoopsguy]

KWhit, I see it but I have the advantage over the rest of the Indians in knowing it is BS.

New player - werewolf is a team sport unless we've got them whittled down to one player. I believe Gonzo changed gears with his play when a teammate shared the new plan with him - that would explain why he started voting for one person and then moved in another direction.

If you want someone who screams wolf to me, it is KWhit. He has been a follower all game long, not the independent thinker that I'm used to playing with in these games.

Gonzo, PurdueBrad, and KWhit - that is what I think you guys are facing the rest of the way. We'll see at the end how close I've been with my guesses this game, I guess.

[hoopsguy]

I'm happy with the 1 for 1 trade at this point and the fact that you don't see that makes me even more suspicious of you.

I'm fine with it if you guys have a 1:1 trade, but I don't see the wolves making this move if it truly is a 1:1 trade. I suspect you will end up paying 2:1 at least for this transaction.

[KWhit]

Hoops, you really do play a good game - even when you're cornered.

:)

[hoopsguy]

Chief, would really appreciate a ruling on my order-of-actions question posted in the thread ...

[Gonzo]

I don't see the wolves making this move if it truly is a 1:1 trade.

Nor do I. The wolves wouldn't make a 1:1 trade after losing a wolf in the day and then not killing at night now, would they?

[hoopsguy]

Hoops, you really do play a good game - even when you're cornered.

:)

In the times I've been down in the vote like this as a wolf I've called it quits and tried to have fun with people leading up to the deadline.

In the times I've been down in the vote like this as a villager I've fought like crazy to try and live another day to help my team. Like ... hmm, like now actually.

[hoopsguy]

Nor do I. The wolves wouldn't make a 1:1 trade after losing a wolf in the day and then not killing at night now, would they?

Hmm, you have some knowledge on the night kill abilities of the wolves? I certainly don't :mad:

[DaddyTorgo]

if hoops is a villager I think we're screwed and we've lost the game. Otherwise no way the wolves do this.

[Gonzo]

Hmm, you have some knowledge on the night kill abilities of the wolves? I certainly don't :mad:

Well the only thing that would expain it with the ruleset is that the bodyguard blocked the kill. Apart from, of course, some crazy conversion mechanic that you've invented to keep yourself from being lynched.

[KWhit]

KWhit, I see it but I have the advantage over the rest of the Indians in knowing it is BS.

But we don't, so we have to play the percentages. I'm not willing to risk losing the seer when we could possibly *gasp* save the scout!

[hoopsguy]

Gonzo, I find it very interesting that you are the only person who thinks that a conversion ability in a game of werewolf is crazy. Of course it is in your best interests to discredit my story, but conversions exist in probably half of our games. The theme of this game is about a wealthy owner trying to get her team to tank games - conversion absolutely fits with the theme of this game.

And it is the only explanation I can fathom for your seer claim not being contradicted when the seer is still alive.

[Gonzo]

Gonzo, I find it very interesting that you are the only person who thinks that a conversion ability in a game of werewolf is crazy. Of course it is in your best interests to discredit my story, but conversions exist in probably half of our games. The theme of this game is about a wealthy owner trying to get her team to tank games - conversion absolutely fits with the theme of this game.

Yes, it might well fit in with the theme of the game in theory. But there's no proof or evidence to support you assuming that I must be converted.

[hoopsguy]

But we don't, so we have to play the percentages. I'm not willing to risk losing the seer when we could possibly *gasp* save the scout!

Playing the percentages will kill a villager and save a wolf. I know this, and the wolves know this. The rest of you can comfort yourself with the knowledge that you played percentages instead of actually trusting your gut, interpreting posts, and playing the game to win.

[DaddyTorgo]

Playing the percentages will kill a villager and save a wolf. I know this, and the wolves know this. The rest of you can comfort yourself with the knowledge that you played percentages instead of actually trusting your gut, interpreting posts, and playing the game to win.

i'm either going to feel really good about this post in like 25 minutes, or look really stupid.

[Barkeep49]

Hoops, I am playing to win and that is why my vote is on you.

[hoopsguy]

Good luck with that. I don't think there is anything more to say.

[Chief Rum]

Thank you for finally asking the question that I've been waiting for someone to ask!

Chief Rum, can you confirm for me, one way or the other, what the order of actions would have been last night if the seer went to scan someone who was also targetted for conversion?

If he is willing to answer that question, then I think it would potentially go a long ways towards clearing me. Unless, of course, the argument will then switch to "well, Hoops must have started as a wolf".

From the exterior perspective, these actions happen at exactly the same time. So order of action doesn't come into play. I have private rules in play to govern eventualities in which two such actions conflict. But they will have to remain private.

This is not to be used as reasoning that any such conflict occurred last night. I am merely answering hoopsguy's question within the confines of my own rule set, as a hypothetical.

[KWhit]

From the exterior perspective, these actions happen at exactly the same time. So order of action doesn't come into play. I have private rules in play to govern eventualities in which two such actions conflict. But they will have to remain private.

This is not to be used as reasoning that any such conflict occurred last night. I am merely answering hoopsguy's question within the confines of my own rule set, as a hypothetical.

That's a hell of a non-answer.

Are you an attorney?

:)

[hoopsguy]

Very helpful :rolleyes: Would have obviously liked a clarification that benefitted my position, but didn't hold out too much hope of getting a direct answer.

[hoopsguy]

Gonzo, having seen you living in this thread all day with me I will never, ever give you the benefit of the doubt for your schedule or time zone as a a reason for not posting. That has come up a few times with Tanglewood (your brother, correct?).

[Barkeep49]

Very helpful :rolleyes: Would have obviously liked a clarification that benefitted my position, but didn't hold out too much hope of getting a direct answer.
I actually think this makes it clear that a seer could scan a converted player and have them come up wolf.

[Barkeep49]

I'm amazed. I really don't think hoops could fake this kind of bitterness.

[hoopsguy]

But we don't, so we have to play the percentages. I'm not willing to risk losing the seer when we could possibly *gasp* save the scout!

Nicely played here, although I think your vote/unvote on me earlier is going to make it very hard to escape scrutiny.

Since it is now down to you, I think you have to take your shot at Gonzo tonight. We can't have him adding another person to the CoT. After that, I would go after the guys you fear the most in an end-game situation. I think Lathum is probably the most experienced, toughest out of the remaining guys.

Major kudos to you if you can take this more than another two days - sorry I wasn't able to stretch this out a little further, but you guys were fricking nuts to convert me last night. As previously stated/ranted/whatever ...

[Chief Rum]

Barkeep asked the question I wanted to know.

Why couldn't hoops have been converted last night?

It would explain wht CR didn't wasnt Gonzo to make any moves yet, plus hoops is a pretty good candidate for conversion since at this point the seer hadn't reveald, however, it would be a good guess that hoops would be one of the top 2 players scanned so when the seer did reveal hoops would come back good .



NOTE: I am posting this close to deadline. This will not affect voting. If you are in a rush to read, do NOT stop to read this post. Come back to it after deadline. THANKS

I am disturbed by a couple issues here, although willingly admit that my approach to things and lack of foresight in putting a rule clamping down on revealing anything from PMs in the deadline interim have contributed largely to this.

The first issue is that Gonzo pretty much revealed my PM, in direct violation of a posted rule regarding PMs. I am allowing some leeway here, because I know he was trying to defend himself from scrutiny, and my PM was the primary reason he did what he did (although I disagree with Gonzo and Barkeep in that what I posted should automatically lead to the conclusion he made). Still, copying PMs is against the rules, and I am assessing a warning to Gonzo to not do that again.

The second issue is that my PM, which was not meant for consumption in this thread, should become a tool affecting the game. I would ask the villagers to disregard this if they can, as this is essentially a meta-game situation. But I know that will be difficult to do (witness the DC/oliegirl issue in the last game, for instance).

Lastly, new rule to be in place here forward. No one is allowed to react in the thread to private PMs received during the interim period from the posting of the lynch to the final night action post until after said night action post has been made.

There are several people who may or may not be receiving PMs from me and to carry on public conversations with deadline information when not everyone else has been properly informed is, IMO, not fair to the spirit of the game and is bad form.

Very serious note: I am not saying Gonzo acted out of turn, and other than his direct quoting of my PM, I have no problems with his action. I am actually more embarrassed for myself for not planning that better. But there is no reason to allow that potential issue to crop up again for the remainder of the game. Thus the new rule.

Thanks and you may now return to your deadline voting.

[Chief Rum]

That's a hell of a non-answer.

Are you an attorney?

:)

No, but I play one on TV. :p

[KWhit]

Nicely played here, although I think your vote/unvote on me earlier is going to make it very hard to escape scrutiny.

Since it is now down to you, I think you have to take your shot at Gonzo tonight. We can't have him adding another person to the CoT. After that, I would go after the guys you fear the most in an end-game situation. I think Lathum is probably the most experienced, toughest out of the remaining guys.

Major kudos to you if you can take this more than another two days - sorry I wasn't able to stretch this out a little further, but you guys were fricking nuts to convert me last night. As previously stated/ranted/whatever ...

Say WHAT?!?!

[Gonzo]

Gonzo, having seen you living in this thread all day with me I will never, ever give you the benefit of the doubt for your schedule or time zone as a a reason for not posting. That has come up a few times with Tanglewood (your brother, correct?).

I wouldn't know about Tangle (correct), but I have had nothing to do at all today so I thought I might as well make sure you were lynched. ;)

[hoopsguy]

Jobu made me do it.

[Chief Rum]

Time's up.

Tabulating votes.

[hoopsguy]

Say WHAT?!?!

Do you think Path is a tougher out? I'm not sure what part you don't understand :confused:

[Barkeep49]

(although I disagree with Gonzo and Barkeep in that what I posted should automatically lead to the conclusion he made).

I didn't say automatically, but I thought it was logical. I do apologize fo rany contribution towards rule breaking I might have participated in.

[Barkeep49]

Jobu made me do it.
Well played.

[DaddyTorgo]

wtf was that post hoops?

[Barkeep49]

It's his final way of sowing confusion. We're better off ignoring it.

[DaddyTorgo]

i'm confused

[DaddyTorgo]

aah

[Gonzo]

NOTE: I am posting this close to deadline. This will not affect voting. If you are in a rush to read, do NOT stop to read this post. Come back to it after deadline. THANKS

I am disturbed by a couple issues here, although willingly admit that my approach to things and lack of foresight in putting a rule clamping down on revealing anything from PMs in the deadline interim have contributed largely to this.

The first issue is that Gonzo pretty much revealed my PM, in direct violation of a posted rule regarding PMs. I am allowing some leeway here, because I know he was trying to defend himself from scrutiny, and my PM was the primary reason he did what he did (although I disagree with Gonzo and Barkeep in that what I posted should automatically lead to the conclusion he made). Still, copying PMs is against the rules, and I am assessing a warning to Gonzo to not do that again.

The second issue is that my PM, which was not meant for consumption in this thread, should become a tool affecting the game. I would ask the villagers to disregard this if they can, as this is essentially a meta-game situation. But I know that will be difficult to do (witness the DC/oliegirl issue in the last game, for instance).

Lastly, new rule to be in place here forward. No one is allowed to react in the thread to private PMs received during the interim period from the posting of the lynch to the final night action post until after said night action post has been made.

There are several people who may or may not be receiving PMs from me and to carry on public conversations with deadline information when not everyone else has been properly informed is, IMO, not fair to the spirit of the game and is bad form.

Very serious note: I am not saying Gonzo acted out of turn, and other than his direct quoting of my PM, I have no problems with his action. I am actually more embarrassed for myself for not planning that better. But there is no reason to allow that potential issue to crop up again for the remainder of the game. Thus the new rule.

Thanks and you may now return to your deadline voting.

Sorry Chief Rum. I didn't think it was a big deal at all and would be ignored by everyone.

[KWhit]

Do you think Path is a tougher out? I'm not sure what part you don't understand :confused:


Whatever, wolf.

[Gonzo]

I'm amazed. I really don't think hoops could fake this kind of bitterness.

It seemed pretty transparent to me, but then again I had the benefit of knowing 100% he was bad.

[Barkeep49]

It seemed pretty transparent to me, but then again I had the benefit of knowing 100% he was bad.
Yes you do :).

[DaddyTorgo]

and you're going to fail to scan me and lead a lynch ru on a villager here next.

i'm not going to spend my whole Saturday getting upset and defending myself though.

If you all are determined to go that way, go ahead and vote and vote nightfall on it tonight.

I'd rather look elsewhere, but I don't think I have any credibility left to get that to happen.

[Barkeep49]

Also, I have to admit I'm sorry about something. When everyone was posting how they'd apologize to hoops if they're wrong, I really wanted to go "I won't". :) There's a reason that the high percentage play is high percentage: it's going to be right FAR FAR more often then it's going to be wrong.

[Chief Rum]

My Day Four vote count:

Hoopsguy (7)-- Gonzo (915), Lathum (916), PurdueBrad (921), path12 (931), Barkeep49 (936), KWhit (982), Jonathan Ezarik (1086)
Gonzo (1)-- hoopsguy (933)

Hoopsguy gets the vote. Writing it up.

Posting about private PMs received from now until the final night action is posted is not allowed. You may freely post about PMs received prior to the deadline.

[Barkeep49]

DT: I'm by no means ready to condemn you yet. I'd like to see how this night plays out, but it's seemed to me that the evidence against you isn't great. Perhaps I'm the one missing something, but it surprises me that there is so much anti-you sentiment out there at the moment.

[DaddyTorgo]

DT: I'm by no means ready to condemn you yet. I'd like to see how this night plays out, but it's seemed to me that the evidence against you isn't great. Perhaps I'm the one missing something, but it surprises me that there is so much anti-you sentiment out there at the moment.


thanky barkeep.

[Chief Rum]

After the bewildering events of last night's game, in which the team caught its first wolf and did not see one of its own leave the team, there was a lot of room for confusion.

One player wanted to be sure there was none, though. It was Gonzo who came to the team right from the start and pointed the finger at hoopsguy.

"I have been doing some night time investigating from the start, and last night, hoopsguy came out unequivocally as a wolf," Gonzo said.

Hoopsguy aka Pedro Cerrano and the hero of the team's only two victories thus far, was shocked at the accusation. Surprisingly, few others were and the votes immediately started to pile on. hoopsguy argued for his innocence, pointing out the inconsistencies in Gonzo's stories and actions and how he himself had done so much to help the team. How could he be on the take with the owner?

His pleas fell on deaf ears. By the end of the day, he was fuming and never let go of his bat. No one would come near him. Finally, it was time. Lou Brown--from the other side of the dugout with the rest of the team--called out to hoopsguy.

"Sorry, Pedro," he drawled. "But you're sitting now."

That's when Tanaka spoke up and said some jibberish. After some charades, the team figured out he was wondering where Pedro's Jobu was. Tanaka had noticed it had disappeared from Cerrano's locker.

Pedro broke down, hanging his big bald head.

"She took it," he choked out. "She took my Jobu."

He looked at the players with pleading in his eyes.

"I would never turn on my back on you all, my teammates," he said. "But she has my Jobu and there was nothing I could do."

The players watched in sad silence as he got up and slowly walked out of the clubhouse.

hoopsguy was a wolf, and was at one point, The Scout.

Congratulations on your second wolf.

NIGHT ACTIONS COMING.

[Gonzo]

Now let's see if I can survive the night.

[st.cronin]

I can't believe hoops has NEVER been lynched as a villager. That's absolutely ridiculous.

[Barkeep49]

I can't believe hoops has NEVER been lynched as a villager. That's absolutely ridiculous.
Why would he? He's very consistent, meaning he doesn't draw suspicion that way, people know he's a valuable villager, so they give him the benefit of the doubt, and he's a master of persuasion as was proven even today when he had a seer reveal against him.

[hoopsguy]

I can't believe hoops has NEVER been lynched as a villager. That's absolutely ridiculous.

I just hope that my fellow villagers will give that appropriate consideration when I actually am a villager. It didn't seem to hold much sway in this game :mad::p

Good game, all. Talk to you in the post-game.

[st.cronin]

Why would he? He's very consistent, meaning he doesn't draw suspicion that way, people know he's a valuable villager, so they give him the benefit of the doubt, and he's a master of persuasion as was proven even today when he had a seer reveal against him.

All of those things are true of other players as well, who I am sure have been lynched as villagers - including Barkeep49, for example.

[Barkeep49]

I don't think there as true, frankly.

[Chief Rum]

Spirits are high as you run out to the field, knowing you have found two wolves in two days. But your lineup takes a mighty hit without its big bat. Can you beat the Twins tonight, coming into town for a three game series?

It's another tightly pitched ballgame. The Twins have Santana on the mound, and he's really on his game. It's just, 1-1, going into the seventh inning when Willie Mays Hayes steps to the plate. The speedster was relatively quiet in the Baltimore series, but new day, new hero. Putting his assets to their best use, Hayes drops a perfect bun down the line and beats out the throw to first by a couple steps.

After drawing several throws from Santana, Hayes breaks for second on a pitchout. He should be a goner! But nothing is easy when it comes to stopping Hayes on the basepaths. He extends his hand and touches second before the tag hits him.

He is quick to move over to third on a right side ground ball, and now the go ahead run is just 90 feet away. And ole Lou Brown has an idea from his National League days. He makes the call and Hayes nods, as does Tomlinson at the plate.

Santana starts his windup...and Hayes breaks for the plate! It's a great jump! Tomlinson squares on the pitch--it's a squeeze play! But something is wrong. Santana's pitch busts Tomlinson inside, and he misses it. Is Hayes dead to rights?

Anyone else would have been. Not this guy. The pitch carries the catcher to the far side of the plate, so Hayes slides wide to the near corner, foot sweeping toward the plate. The toe of his cleat brushes the plate an instant before the catcher's sweeping tag. SAFE! 2-1 Indians!

And that's how it would end! Hayes was the star today and put the Indians up half a game. The Yankees would beat the Bluejays later that night to tie it up again, though.

It's only after the game that one of you notices Ken Parkhurst isn't around. You find a note in his now empty locker. It reads:

"I'm not a nobody! I don't care who you guys are. Just because I'm not star in a movie doesn't mean I'm not a damn good ballplayer. So you can all kiss my ass!"

Signed, "Anonymous Ballplayer"

"Hmm," Lou Brown says, "only reason I didn't look for him tonight was we didn't need a pinch hitter. Go figure."

One more villager, Barkeep49, is now out of the game. He did not have a role. He may have not been an important piece of the team on field, but he will be missed in the clubhouse.

DAY FIVE HAS NOW BEGUN. EXTENDED DEADLINE OVER WEEKEND. THE END OF DAY FIVE WILL BE 3 P.M. EST/12 P.M. PDT SUNDAY AFTERNOON.

GOOD LUCK, EVERYONE, AND HAVE A GOOD WEEKEND.

P.S. Posting about night time PMs may now commence.

[Gonzo]

Scanned Jonothan Ezarik. Good, no role.

So today, we should take care of DaddyTorgo.

VOTE DADDYTORGO

[Lathum]

well that actualy worked out well.

[Jonathan Ezarik]

Sigh. I had really hoped you wouldn't have scanned me.

[Lathum]

OK, so 7 left.

Gonzo- seer

Lathum, JE, - cleared by seer

That leaves Path, KWhit, DT, PurdueBrad. Of these 4 the BG and Duke exist.

[Chief Rum]

BTW, apologies to Gonzo and Barkeep if I came down harsh. That's a tone thing on the Internet. I'm actually tremendously embarrassed. The tone comes out worse because I write like a lawyer (as noted) when it comes to rules and such. In reality, I am only annoyed at myself for not forseeing what happened and preparing for it.

Of course, that happens to GMs a lot. We try to plan for everything and you gosh darn humans still manage to find the loopholes in our plans, knowingly or unknowingly, and cause the unexpected to happen. :)

[Barkeep49]

BTW, apologies to Gonzo and Barkeep if I came down harsh. That's a tone thing on the Internet. I'm actually tremendously embarrassed. The tone comes out worse because I write like a lawyer (as noted) when it comes to rules and such. In reality, I am only annoyed at myself for not forseeing what happened and preparing for it.

Of course, that happens to GMs a lot. We try to plan for everything and you gosh darn humans still manage to find the loopholes in our plans, knowingly or unknowingly, and cause the unexpected to happen. :)
Understood :D. It was a fun game Chief.

[Passacaglia]

It was a fun game Chief.


+1

[st.cronin]

Chief, from the sidelines I thought you handled it just right.

[DaddyTorgo]

dammit. Lost my long post.

okay: why would i if I was a wolf lynch someone who thought I was a villager?? makes no sense.

let's break this down:

gonzo: seer
lathum/je: good
dt: good (humor me here)

path/kwhit/brad: 2/3 wolves?

where are the bodyguard and duke? I know i'm not either. so one of path/kwhit/brad has a role and is good and the other 2 are wolves, and lathum/je have roles and maybe gonzo doesn't get role info?

or could we have an evil duke?

[DaddyTorgo]

or of path/kwhit/brad 2 can have roles and be good and we could be down to 1 last wolf I suppose?

[Lathum]

We would have to operate under the assumption that you are good DT, which I don't think you are.

[path12]

DT: I'm by no means ready to condemn you yet. I'd like to see how this night plays out, but it's seemed to me that the evidence against you isn't great. Perhaps I'm the one missing something, but it surprises me that there is so much anti-you sentiment out there at the moment.

I kinda feel the same way. But I'm sure we'll be going back through it over the weekend.

[path12]

I just hope that my fellow villagers will give that appropriate consideration when I actually am a villager. It didn't seem to hold much sway in this game :mad::p

Good game, all. Talk to you in the post-game.

Man, talk about giving it the old college try. You worked hard today.

*hat tip*

[DaddyTorgo]

We would have to operate under the assumption that you are good DT, which I don't think you are.

I am though.

[path12]

Such an odd move to convert hoops in the middle part of the game. I don't know if that was the best move the wolves could have made, which makes me want to look at those who may not be the most experienced wolves......

[DaddyTorgo]

Such an odd move to convert hoops in the middle part of the game. I don't know if that was the best move the wolves could have made, which makes me want to look at those who may not be the most experienced wolves......

aka...? purdue?

[path12]

Maybe. Jack Parkman doesn't think you've been a wolf that often either.

[DaddyTorgo]

Maybe. Jack Parkman doesn't think you've been a wolf that often either.

has jack parkman been hit in the head by too many pitches?? :confused::confused::confused:

i've been a wolf many many times. so many that if I were the wolf I would have gone for the conversion on someone other than hoops.

i'm a much better wolf than villager, as this game shows, with my horrid villager play.

[DaddyTorgo]

VOTE PATH12

Path knows I've been a wolf many many times. It's not like he's new and that's a mistake he'd make.

[Lathum]

I think Hoops is a great candidate and it is a move an expierienced player makes. It is VERY likely hoops would be scanned in the first 2-3 days. As soon as we started talking about the seer reveealing I think the wolves would want to try and convert someone who had been scanned already and Hoops is a good candidate.

[Jonathan Ezarik]

I think Hoops is a great candidate and it is a move an expierienced player makes. It is VERY likely hoops would be scanned in the first 2-3 days. As soon as we started talking about the seer reveealing I think the wolves would want to try and convert someone who had been scanned already and Hoops is a good candidate.

My thoughts exactly. Well, not exactly, but pretty darn close.

[Jonathan Ezarik]

Can someone give me a reason to vote for DT? I know he's been drawing a lot of heat for most of the game, but I'm not really sure why. Other than the internet problems the other night and hitching his cause to hoopsguy yesterday, what other signs point to him being a wolf?

[DaddyTorgo]

Can someone give me a reason to vote for DT? I know he's been drawing a lot of heat for most of the game, but I'm not really sure why. Other than the internet problems the other night and hitching his cause to hoopsguy yesterday, what other signs point to him being a wolf?

allow me to give you the best reason not to vote for me: i'm a villager

[Lathum]

VOTE DADDYTORGO

[PurdueBrad]

We're getting close, way to go team!!! AND WE WON ANOTHER GAME!!! As a Red Sox fan, I love trying to beat the Yankees. Anyway, for now I'm voting:

Vote Daddytorgo

[DaddyTorgo]

i'm not a wolf. Stop voting for me villagers. I expect the wolves or potential wolves to vote for me...no big surprise there.

[DaddyTorgo]

but if you're a cleared villager you shouldn't be voting for me. You should be voting for purdue or path or kwhit.

The wolves are in that bunch

if the BG can shed any light on things, that might be nice? not necessarily reveal just...maybe they saw something one night and have reason to suspect someone...if so if they could make a case for that person without revealing, that'd be great

[path12]

if the BG can shed any light on things, that might be nice? not necessarily reveal just...maybe they saw something one night and have reason to suspect someone...if so if they could make a case for that person without revealing, that'd be great

And how exactly would they do that? What a strange request. There's no way the BG should reveal.

[KWhit]

Yeah, DT's made a few strange requests. Sounds like he's fishing for information.

VOTE DADDYTORGO

[DaddyTorgo]

i'm fishing for which of you three are the wolves. Trying to help the village before they lynch me.

[DaddyTorgo]

goddammit...can someone frigging trust me!?!?!?! :mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

[Lathum]

if the BG can shed any light on things, that might be nice? not necessarily reveal just...maybe they saw something one night and have reason to suspect someone...if so if they could make a case for that person without revealing, that'd be great

lol.

[Lathum]

goddammit...can someone frigging trust me!?!?!?! :mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

ummm, no.

[DaddyTorgo]

well you're all going to lynch another villager then

and you'll be in a position where you HAVE TO get it right for the rest of the game and hope you get BG blocks to win or you've screwed the village

[DaddyTorgo]

fuckit.

it's obvious i'm not going to be able to talk sense into anyone, so i'm not going to waste anymore time refreshing the thread and trying to talk sense into anyone.

i'd assume you have 2 wolves left, and I havn't done the math but just off the top of my head i'd think that after you lynch me and I show up good you don't have anymore margin for error, and indeed you're going to need to hope for some BG blocks of the night-kills in order to make it out.

gl village. Way to lynch someone you havn't even scanned and have no idea if they're good or not. Has my play really seemed wolfish this game? lathum...you've played with me as a wolf...we've talked wolf-strategy...are any of the plays i've made in this game characteristic of the way I play as a wolf?? they're not. I'm not a damm wolf!

[Lathum]

If we have 2 wolves left then I will concied defet

[Lathum]

yes i am drunk

[DaddyTorgo]

you know...if the BG and Duke reveal then the lone remaining wolf (if it is indeed just one) will be forced to do a fake-reveal and challenge them and then we'd be down to just two choices...50/50 shot instead of a 1/4 chance (and that's if you include me as evil, even though i'm not, which would make it 1/3).

Assuming we have 1 wolf (for discussion):

1) If the BG+Duke reveal, we have (to me) a 50% chance of finding the one remaining wolf. (33% chance for the rest of you, if you continue to refuse to assume I'm a villager).


If we have 2 remaining wolves then yeah, we must have a wolf-duke or a wolf in the existing CoT somehow...and that leaves you all at 5-2 and seriously fucked, because a wolf-duke will be able to duke the lynch of a wolf onto a villager and you guys will be done. That's why this is so critical.

[Lathum]

Like I kind of said last night, I would be shoked if there were 2 wolves left.

I also think any reveal would be countered with a fake reveal and create more chaos.

Our best move is to lynch DaddyTorgo then hope for the best.

[DaddyTorgo]

Like I kind of said last night, I would be shoked if there were 2 wolves left.

I also think any reveal would be countered with a fake reveal and create more chaos.

Our best move is to lynch DaddyTorgo then hope for the best.
yeah but with a fake reveal you are left with a 50/50 shot whereas without one you are still left with a 33% chance, not including possible info from gonzo if he survives.

call me selfish, but with my way I get to live to the end as a villager and win versus getting lynched at the end.

plus, if the wolf kills gonzo or converts again (possible) you guys are in trouble. he kills gonzo and you have a 33% chance. he converts someone in the CoT and you are likely fucked

[Lathum]

plus, if the wolf kills gonzo or converts again (possible) you guys are in trouble. he kills gonzo and you have a 33% chance. he converts someone in the CoT and you are likely fucked

lol, 2 conversions in a row in a 14 person game?

[Lathum]

dola and since barkeep was killed last night it seems unlikely

[PurdueBrad]

DT, I said it to Hoops (twice, once I would've been wrong, the second time I was right) and I'll say it to you as well, if we're wrong, I'm sorry. Right now I admit I'm kind of bandwagon-jumping because I'm not quite sure how many are left and I don't really have a feeling for who. There are four (including myself) that I can eliminate as being potential wolves, that just leaves a small handful and I guess I'm willing to work through those at this point and hope that it is just one wolf left.

[DaddyTorgo]

lol, 2 conversions in a row in a 14 person game?

hey...i dunno. just trying to cover all the potential bases

[DaddyTorgo]

DT, I said it to Hoops (twice, once I would've been wrong, the second time I was right) and I'll say it to you as well, if we're wrong, I'm sorry. Right now I admit I'm kind of bandwagon-jumping because I'm not quite sure how many are left and I don't really have a feeling for who. There are four (including myself) that I can eliminate as being potential wolves, that just leaves a small handful and I guess I'm willing to work through those at this point and hope that it is just one wolf left.

okay. Well you're going to be sorry, but nothing I can do about that it appears

[PurdueBrad]

DT, I very well may be sorry, like I said, I just have little to no guesses right now and am kind of picking from those that I'm not sure of. Even if I switch votes, it's not enough so I guess I'll stay in solidarity with my other villagers until it backfires.

[Lathum]

This may sound odd but I think if DT was a villager he would be fighting alot harder for his life.

I think he is playing the whole " It's no big deal if you lynch me since I am a villager" card.

I am out for now. I am hopefull the game will be over when I return.

[DaddyTorgo]

This may sound odd but I think if DT was a villager he would be fighting alot harder for his life.

I think he is playing the whole " It's no big deal if you lynch me since I am a villager" card.

I am out for now. I am hopefull the game will be over when I return.

I said before that I wasn't going to wate my whole day fighting for my life.

The game won't be over when you return.

at this point, wouldn't surprise me if you were a wolf somehow.

[Jonathan Ezarik]

Not that my vote really matters, but here it is.

VOTE DADDYTORGO

I'm not sold on him being a wolf, but no one else is striking me as evil, so he gets the vote.

[DaddyTorgo]

this sucks. I hate when my teammates lynch me.

[DaddyTorgo]

I don't have anymore insight into anything.

I'd like to think that path/kwhit/purdue contains the last wolf hopefully, because if it doesn't you guys are screwed

[Chief Rum]

Deadline.

Tabulating results now.

[DaddyTorgo]

Deadline.

Tabulating results now.


save you the trouble. I'm dead

[Chief Rum]

My Day Four vote count:

DaddyTorgo (5)-- Gonzo (1160), Lathum (1183), PurdueBrad (1184), KWhit (1188), Jonathan Ezarik (1208)
path12 (1)-- DaddyTorgo (1178)

DaddyTorgo is the lynch candidate. Writeup coming.

[Chief Rum]

There seems to be little doubt today. After a tough fight against hoopsguy aka Pedro Cerrano, team hero, actually revealed a wolf, Gonzo had tons of credibility. And today, he pointed his finger at DaddyTorgo.

DaddyTorgo protested his innocence in both broken English and his native Spanish, but it was to no avail. The team stood as one.

Lou Brown, in that sad voice he can sometimes muster, said, "Asta la vista, Ivan."

DaddyTorgo aka Ivan Molina, middle infield defensive specialist, threw out a mad string of Spanish that was hard to understand, but, really, no one much needed the translation. Molina flipped the team off and stormed out of the lockerroom to start winter ball in the Dominican early.

It is unfortunately clear that he was just a villager.

DADDYTORGO WAS A VILLAGER WITH NO ROLE.

NIGHT ACTIONS COMING.

[DaddyTorgo]

told you guys

[PurdueBrad]

DT, I'm very sorry, more than you could know because I think now we're kind of lost about who to suspect.

[Chief Rum]

There is some shock in the clubhouse for the team as DaddyTorgo leaves. You caught two wolves in a row, and Gonzo, who was also, strangely enough, not around when DaddyTorgo was told to leave, had been the most trusted player in the clubhouse. What went wrong? And where was Gonzo?

You take the field to do some hitting and infield practice. Ten minutes before the game, Lou Brown calls you all around and says he has news.

"Guys, I am afraid I have some bad news," he grumps. "We just got a call from Willie Mays Hayes' agent. He's in the hospital with some sort of head gigantism thing. It appears someone got him hooked on this brain tonic stuff that's a little 'off the market', and it's some bad stuff. He's going to be fine, but he's also not going to be able to play with us the rest of the way."

Hayes, perhaps the Indians' best remaining player, is out for the season! And so is Gonzo aka Hayes. Clearly, Rachel Phelps got to him, too.

With heavy hearts, you hit the field against the Twins. It doesn't help that you're facing some guy named Boof. Who the hell names their kid Boof? Half the time you're laughing up there.

Still, first baseman Jake Tomlinson finally gets a hold of a good pitch and drives it into the stands for a three-run homer and a 3-2 lead! We have a new hero today, it seems!

Lou Brown goes to the pen to try to lock it down. There's a hotshot rookie back there now, with no more Vaughan or Harris. The rookie, unfortunately, doesn't have his best stuff. The Twins come back on him and score three to get back into it, 5-3. And their closer, Joe Nathan, is one of the best in the biz. He shuts it down, and the Indians fall.

After the game, no one can find the rookie. Finally, the bullpen coach calls in--the rook's in the pen, sleeping! He is passed out beside a bottle of very expensive champagne with a little note that says, "Congrats on getting to the bigs! Rachel. <3"

Your owner strikes again! The rookie musta been plum drunk out there. Phelps sabotaged your game.

And to make matters worse, the Yankees stomped all over the Jays again. You're down a game in the standings now.

DAY SIX HAS NOW BEGUN.

GONZO WAS THE SEER.

I HAVE WORK TOMORROW LIKE LAST TUESDAY, SO DEADLINE IS EARLY.

DEADLINE SET AT 7 P.M. EST/4 P.M. PDT

[PurdueBrad]

Alright, I'm taking a chance here and doing what I think is right. I'm revealing as the bodyguard. I could not protect Gonzo last night because I protected him the night before. So far, I protected (in order):
Hoops
Path
Me (this is also the night that nobody died but it was NOT because of my doing)
Gonzo
Lathum (I assumed that they would go after Gonzo but just in case, I protected one of our safe bets)

So I can guarantee this, J.E., Lathum, and I are villagers. That leaves two and I can't begin to guess one way or another. KWhit or Path, Path or KWhit, I have no idea.

[PurdueBrad]

Yes, I realize my stupid mistake in that post and I'm an idiot (glad it says nOOb under my name) but since we aren't supposed to edit (believe me, I would love to) I am leaving it. Sorry to my fellow villagers on that.

[path12]

Alright, I'm taking a chance here and doing what I think is right. I'm revealing as the bodyguard. I could not protect Gonzo last night because I protected him the night before. So far, I protected (in order):
Hoops
Path
Me (this is also the night that nobody died but it was NOT because of my doing)
Gonzo
Lathum (I assumed that they would go after Gonzo but just in case, I protected one of our safe bets)

So I can guarantee this, J.E., Lathum, and I are villagers. That leaves two and I can't begin to guess one way or another. KWhit or Path, Path or KWhit, I have no idea.

Sorry to miss the vote, it's been a very hectic weekend.

If this is true, then you've got to lynch KWhit and I. I doubt it's anything other than 4-1 right now. Whichever order doesn't matter in the long run, but
Jack Parkman knows Jack Parkman is good. That leaves one.

VOTE KWHIT

[PurdueBrad]

Lathum, JE, any thoughts or feelings on which way to vote?

[Jonathan Ezarik]

The last vote I went against my gut and voted for DT, this time I'm going with it.

VOTE PATH

I've had a bad feeling about him all game. Time to find out which side he's on.

[PurdueBrad]

Path, I'm a huge fan of how you played this game (made it entertaining) but I'll follow J.E. and

Vote Path

[Jonathan Ezarik]

To follow up, for all the bluster about how awesome Jack Parkman is, he hasn't helped us win a game yet. And I'm pretty sure he's claimed to have stepped it up twice (first night when hoopsguy was the hero, and the night that Gonzo (as Hayes) stepped up).

Hoopsguy listed path as the fourth best player on the team. Celeval was number 2 and I assume hoopsguy was number 1. Do we really think Hayes was the third best player on the team? Or did path really send in a step up order?

[KWhit]

JE and PB have pretty much said it. I think the step ups from Parkman have been a total bust. Makes me think he hasn't actually been sending them in.

VOTE PATH12

[Lathum]

I am gonna have to do some investigating before I decide

[path12]

I sent one in the first night and Pedro got the win instead. The second time was when I hit the home run but we lost. I meant to do it last night but real life intervened and I didn't get it in, or my vote, so my three are up now anyway.

[Lathum]

VOTE KWHIT

early in the game we had a chancew to lynch either barkeep or hoopsguy. I know as a wolf I would want one of them gone, yet Path put a second vote on NTT deacon instead of keeping it close between BK and Hoops.

[PurdueBrad]

Alright, Lathum, I'll follow you...

Unvote Path

Vote KWhit

[Lathum]

Brad, will you be able to protect yourself tonight?

I think you can unless I am mistaken

[PurdueBrad]

Lathum, I can protect myself tonight if need be. I had submitted something else but will change it.

[Lathum]

Lathum, I can protect myself tonight if need be. I had submitted something else but will change it.

Brad, it is never good to give information away like that.

I strongly suggest protecting yourself, If we don't get a wolf today I die tonight then you guys take out either path/kwhit.

[KWhit]

I highly suggest you guys rethink the vote for me today. I am a villager.

[KWhit]

Path, I'm a huge fan of how you played this game (made it entertaining) but I'll follow J.E. and

Vote Path


Alright, Lathum, I'll follow you...

Unvote Path

Vote KWhit


Why don't you actually try to decide who you think is the wolf instead of just following someone. If you have been paying attention, you'll know that I have been doing everything I can to help find the wolves. Path has been pretty funny with his roleplaying, but has he really helped us out?

[KWhit]

And don't forget, I pushed hard for the lynch of Hoops. I saw the importance of lynching Hoops who best case scenario was a villager/scout over lynching Gonzo who was possibly the seer.


Heh. Sorry, but I'm not moving my vote. I'm not sure who's telling the truth, but there are two things that make me keep my vote on you.

Would a new player - who's just had 1-2 games under his belt make a fake seer reveal? It's not likely.
Even if he's lying, it is a LOT less of a risk voting for you and losing a scout than it is losing a SEER! You have GOT to see that % play.I'm happy with the 1 for 1 trade at this point and the fact that you don't see that makes me even more suspicious of you.


But we don't, so we have to play the percentages. I'm not willing to risk losing the seer when we could possibly *gasp* save the scout!

[path12]

Doesn't matter to me at all which order you lynch us in, just as long as you lynch both myself and KWhit.

Seems to matter a bit more to him though. Wonder what that could mean....

[path12]

Path has been pretty funny with his roleplaying, but has he really helped us out?

Ouch. I think I'd get some credit for pushing the lynch on hoops so hard, but guess not.

I'm out until late. Good luck.

[Chief Rum]

Deadline.

Tabulating votes.

[DaddyTorgo]

DEADLINE

[Chief Rum]

My final vote count for Day Six:

KWhit (3)-- path12 (1220), Lathum (1228), PurdueBrad (1229)
path12 (2)-- Jonathan Ezarik (1222), KWhit (1225)

KWhit is the choice. Writeup coming.

[Chief Rum]

After the fiasco surrounding Hayes and his loss from the team, there was a lot of mixed feelings going into today. You all know you're nearing the end. There are only five of you left in the voting, and at least one of you is a vote.

The consensus settles on either KWhit aka Tom Kettner, your last remaining regular starting pitcher, and path12, the well-known vain-glorious Jack Parkman. The early votes point to path12, whose self worship seems to have far outweighed his contributions to the team's cause, at least in some estimations. But the Japanese import Tanaka aka Lathum speaks out on Parkman's behalf. No one understands a word of it.

But Lou Brown aka PurdueBrad can see the passion and belief in Tanaka's eyes, and he is swayed. He changes from Parkman to Kettner, and refuses to change his vote.

And with that, the vote is settled. Tom Kettner, KWhit, is approached to be escorted from the clubhouse. But just as you reach him, club security comes rushing in and blocks your path! And you realize that Tom Kettner is none other than Rachel Phelps herself! KWhit was the King (or Queen) Wolf!

She fires all sorts of curses at you all from behind her army of security, and you know you can't tell her to leave. But you can tell her she can't pitch, because that's the power of public opinion. Up to now, these machinations have stayed behind closed doors. If her actions get out, she will be done as an owner in the major leagues.

So you ignore her threats and run out onto the field. You win that night, and the next, and the next. You catch the Yankees, and then you pass them! When the final day comes, the champagne comes out--bought by Brown, of course, since the club wasn't going to do it--and you have won the division!

CONGRATS, INDIANS, THE LAST WOLF HAS BEEN FOUND.

THE GOOD GUYS WIN.

[DaddyTorgo]

PARTY PARTY PARTY PARTY IN THE STREETS!!!

WOOHOOO!!!!

gg wolves. Closer than it ended up.

thnx CR

[Lathum]

SWEET

[DaddyTorgo]

haha. Kwhit was a chick.

[Lathum]

thanks for running the game CR, it was fun

[DaddyTorgo]

VOTE LATHUM MVP

[Lathum]

VOTE LATHUM MVP

thanks but Jack Parkman won't like that

[Chief Rum]

Heh...thanks.

You guys would finish this on the day I am heading off to work. So I can't really post too much about mechanics or respond to things right now. I'm sure there will be questions and what not, so feel free to post them, and I'll respond when I get back.

The short and sweet was opening wolves were Pass and KWhit, and opening good guys roles were Gonzo (Seer), hoopsguy (Scout), PurdueBrad (Bodyguard) and Jonathan Ezarik (Duke). hoopsguy was converted on Day Three.

Here was the opening talent ranking. Movie role was a heavy influence.

1. Hayes
2. Vaughan (wolf)
3. Taylor
4. Dorn
5. Brown
6. Cerrano
**wolves**
7. Parkman
8. Baker
9. Tanaka
10. Harris
11. Kettner (wolf)
12. Molina
13. Tomlinson
14. Parkhurst

The reason for the **wolves** listing is that that is the point at which their sabotage action (they each had one) would take its effect. Their action would immediately turn any winning bid from below that line into a loser, and would make any above a 50-50 shot to win. The wolves are still listed in the talent ranking, because they would still give the Scout a talent ranking when scouted.

That's probably about all I have time to say right now.

[Chief Rum]

I think the MVP should go to Gonzo, who chose to scan hoopsguy at the right time, and who revealed at the right time, too. He also won the Indians a game, too, with his stepitup action, although overall that was a misused aspect of this game.

The scan and reveal of hoopsguy was the stroke of luck the good guys needed. If he gets scanned before that or not at all, this game probably goes to the wolves, who largely played a very solid game.

[Alan T]

Was fun to follow along while I was out of town. Since I couldn't play due to my schedule, I figured I would try to figure things out as if I was a villager. Was a pretty interesting experience for me and might lead me to change some things about how I play in the future..

Anyways this is what I sent in as my unofficial guesses via PM during the game:

Kwhit and Passacaglia wolves (figured them by day 2-3)
Hoopsguy, Barkeep, Path12, Gonzo, Cronin I all figured were no role good guys by day 2-3.

I figured DaddyTorgo and Mike Vic were both good guys with roles.

I was leaning to Lathum being a no role good guy as well day 2-3 and had no feel on J.E or Purdue Brad.

The night that Cronin died then the following morning I had made up my mind if I was playing, that I would go on one of my "crusades" against Passacaglia, for the same reason I went after Chief Rum last game.. fitting a specific type of game play pattern that probably makes no sense, and I probably just got lucky in those two cases.

I think the next day (4 or 5) I finally realized Lathum was probably the duke and JE was probably the seer. (I was wrong on the seer until Gonzo revealed).

I was told when Hoopsguy was converted, so I didn't get to try to guess during that day at what all was happening, but would like to believe that I would have made the same move (You never risk possibly killing off your seer in a 1 v 1 matchup).

Its weird, I feel I usually am a lousy villager when I play in games, but when I sit out, I seem to nail alot of the roles.. I think I put myself too close to the action when I play and it blurs my vision perhaps.