Werewolf LI Major League (GAME OVER!!! INDIANS--GOOD GUYS--WIN!!!)

[Chief Rum]

http://images.starpulse.com/AMGPhotos/video/cov120/drv300/v352/v35208wnvef.jpg



Harry Doyle: In case you haven't noticed, and judging by the attendance you haven't, the Indians have managed to win a few ball games, and are threatening to climb out of the cellar.


Intro

Welcome to Cleveland, circa 1989, where the most sad sack franchise in baseball history is trying to pull off an amazing comeback and earn a long awaited trip to the playoffs.

New owner Rachel Phelps instructed new GM Charlie Donovan to find some players who could earn her a sweet stadium in Florida, along with a membership at a ritzy countryclub. That meant losing, and Donovan went at it with gusto. He found society's rejects and put them in a uniform. He found them in Mexico, in Cuba, in the California State Penitentiary.

But these guys were ball players once, and now their pride has been tested. They know no matter what they do, they will be traded or outright released at the end of the year. So there's only one thing left to do.

"Win the whole damn thing!"

Rules

This will be a 24 hour, one deadline per day WW game. Night actions and day actions will be due at the same time, and all actions run at once. The daily deadline will be at 10 p.m. EST (7 p.m. PDT), except when changed by the GM (the most notable exception is Day One is tentatively scheduled on Tuesday for 7 p.m. EST/4 p.m. PDT). Roles will go out Sunday night.

Everyone will get a role, although, depending on the numbers, not everyone will be a character from the movie. Everyone will start the game with an action they can choose to take every day.

Most of you will be members of Major League's Cleveland Indians, and all of you, for appearances sake, will start that way. As a team, your goal is to win ballgames every night, and to catch the Yankees for the division championship. You are a game back of the mighty, evil Bronx Bombers at the start of the game. The time left in the season is indeterminate from the game's point of view, but will end shortly after the WW game within ends.

Not all are on your side. Phelps and Donovan are around to cause trouble, and you have seen signs not everyone in the clubhouse is giving their all. Is there one amongst you whom has succumbed to a bribe? Or is someone half assing it in expectation of a sweetheart deal from Phelps in the offseason?

Manager Lou Brown comes up with a solution. Every day, you will vote for a player to sit the rest of the season, until the slackers have been eradicated, and you can concentrate on catching the Yankees. And every day, one more baseball game will be played. If you find the traitors throwing the game, you should win the rest of your games and catch the Yankees (if you haven't fallen too far behind, that is). If Phelps and her cronies get as many in their numbers as team members left playing, you will fail to catch the Yankees--and that's a certainty.

Can you get Cleveland back to the playoffs for the first time in over 30 years?

The Opening Roster

The following players and associated members of the Cleveland Indians may or may not be represented in the game.

Owner: Rachel Phelps (Margaret Whitton)
GM: Charlie Donovan (Charles Cyphers)
Manager: Lou Brown (James Gammon)

C: Jake Taylor (Tom Berenger)
C: Rube Baker (Eric Bruskotter)
C/DH: Jack Parkman (David Keith)
3B: Roger Dorn (Corbin Bernsen)
LF: Pedro Cerrano (Dennis Haysbert)
CF: Willie Mays Hayes (Wesley Snipes--but if you squint real hard, Omar Epps)
RF: Isuro Tanaka (Takaaki Ishibashi)
P: Rick "Wild Thing" Vaughan (Charlie Sheen)
P: Eddie Harris (Chelcie Ross)

Other possible names (to fill out the roster):

Ivan Molina
Jake Tomlinson
Tom Kettner
Ken Parkhurst

Good luck and Go Indians!

[Chief Rum]

Expanded Rules and Role Information

Daily Schedule

The deadline schedule will be as follows:

Day One (Tuesday, 7 p.m. EST)
Day Two (Wednesday, 10 p.m. EST)
Day Three (Thursday, 10 p.m. EST)
Day Four (Friday, 10 p.m. EST)
Day Five (Sunday, 3 p.m. EST--tentative)
Day Six (Monday, 7 p.m. EST)

Further scheduling beyond Day Six will be announced as we go forward and if necessary.

All actions and voting for the day are due by that day's deadlines. This is a hard deadline. No votes or actions received after the deadline, as it is shown in the forum time stamps, will count for that day. They will count for the following day if allowed to stand.

There may be occasion when I will hit traffic on the way home and not be at the computer at deadline. If this happens, the deadline is still in effect, and I will carry out the deadline when I am able.

Standard Rules

All of the usual rules of WW apply. There are no direct quoting of PMs except where I myself have allowed it or posted it. No editing of posts is allowed in this thread except by me, or by Barkeep, and only in his role as the forum moderator. Unless expressly given the ability to do so, no one may communicate with anyone else in the game about this game outside of this thread. No one is allowed to post in this red color, which will be reserved solely for use by the GM.

Votes will be made in bold and at the end of posts like this:

VOTE PLAYER X

In order to vote for a new player, you must unvote any previous vote for that day.

All players must vote every day. Please see the Baseball Game Actions section for the consequecne of not voting. "No lynch" votes are not allowed. Votes must be for players still active in the game. In the case of a tie, the lynch candidate will be the one who received the first vote that day, regardless of whether that first voter still holds to that vote.

If you are voted out, you are allowed one "in-character" post to react/say goodbyes. You may continue to read and post in the thread, but you are no longer a part of the game as a playing member, so please respect your "death" within the game.

Actions are to be PM'd to me. Conditional actions are allowed within reason. If you have any questions as to what is or is not allowed, you may PM me.

Some antagonism is to be expected in contentious games like WW, but please keep personal attacks out of this thread.

Most day times I am unavailable here at the forum. If it is a critical question that cannot wait, I can be reached at [email protected]. I would ask I only be contacted there, though, if the answer to the question would be one that could have significant impact on the day's proceedings.

Victory Conditions and the Two Games

There are two games running concurrently in this thread. There is the common WW game. And the game within the game, the daily baseball game. There are actions related to both, and not all players will be given the ability to affect both games.

For villagers, a major victory is achieved if all wolves have been exposed AND the Indians win the division. A minor victory is achieved if the wolves have been exposed, but a pennant was not won.

For the wolves, a major victory is achieved if the wolves drop the villager numbers to an even ratio with the wolves. This automatically loses the pennant for the Indians. A minor victory is achieved if the Indians do not win the pennant, even if the wolves are exposed before reaching their major victory.

Here is the order of actions at the deadline.

1. The day's "lynch" will be carried out, and any actions attached to it.
2. Non-baseball game actions from remaining players will be enacted, with results.
3. Baseball game actions from remaining players will be enacted, with results.
4. The baseball game results will be calculated and announced, followed shortly by any remaining PMs.

For most players, steps 2 thru 4 will be just one final action post following the lynch post.

Baseball Game Actions

Every baseball player will get three "step it up" actions for the entire game. This is an action where your on field character will step up his game for that night and perhaps help the team win the game. Only one player's action will be chosen every night. If you choose to use one of your three actions and it is not used, you still lose it, so use them wisely. When you are out of these actions, you will no longer be able to affect the outcome of the nightly game any more than any other player. Some baseball players will be more able than others to affect the outcome of the nightly baseball game. The best player's action will be considered before those of lesser talent.

IMPORTANT NOTE: Any player who does not vote in the daily lynch will lose one of his three baseball game actions.

Not everyone will be a character from the movies, although everyone will have a name. Roles and allegiance are not related to the character names. The only characters that are absolutely allied one way are Rachel Phelps and Charlie Donovan, the owner and GM, and they will be wolves.

Some or all of the players listed in the roster in Post #1 could be in the game. The wolves will know which ones are in the game, and so will be able to assume absent character identities, so as to not limit the potential pool of wolves based on name.

WW Roles

Whereas the baseball game roles and abilities are spelled out, the WW role abilities will largely be hidden, except for what follows here. These roles will be handed out at random, and can end on any player in the game.

BODYGUARD: This is the traditional bodyguard role. This character will be able to protect himself or another character of his choice from the wolves' actions.

SEER: This is the traditional seer role. This character will be able to investigate one player every day to determine his true identity and allegiance.

SCOUT: This is a nontraditional seer role. There is an in-game talent ranking for all players in the game which will determine how they can affect the nightly baseball game. The scout can investigate one player per day and will be told where in this ranking that player's character lies, be it first, second, third, last, etc. This ranking will remain static regardless of whether the players in are still alive. So if the fourth ranked talent is the top remaining talent in the game, the scout will still nonetheless be told that player has the ranking of fourth. The scout will NOT be told the player's in-game identity or allegiance. Wolves will also have talent rankings.

DUKE: This is the traditional duke role. This player, who is particularly well-liked in the clubhouse, will have the option to stop the "lynch" of any player once in the game, including his own. There will be no lynch that day when this happens.

Everyone will receive two PMs, one with their real names, roles and other instructions. The other will be a generic PM of instructions that is being sent to all players. In many cases, the first post will contradict what is sent in the second. The first post will always take precedence with respect to abilities and instructions. The generic post will only cover those areas not already addressed in the first post.

GAME START

The game will begin when the generic PMs have been sent out, and a post announcing the game has been posted in this thread. Final PMs are currently being written and sent out.

GOOD LUCK, EVERYONE!

[Chief Rum]

Player List

1. DaddyTorgo-- LYNCHED DAY FIVE Ivan Molina (regular ballplayer)
2. Barkeep-- KILLED NIGHT FOUR Ken Parkhurst (regular ballplayer)
3. KWhit LYNCHED DAY SIX Rachel Phelps (WOLF! faking Tom Kettner)
4. Passacaglia-- LYNCHED DAY THREE Charlie Donovan (WOLF! faking Rocky "Wild Thing" Vaughan)
5. Celeval-- KILLED DAY ONE Jake Taylor (regular ballplayer)
6. Lathum
7. MikeVic-- KILLED DAY TWO Roger Dorn (regular ballplayer)
8. hoopsguy-- LYNCHED DAY FOUR Pedro Cerrano (the Scout; converted WOLF!)
9. path12
10. Jonathan Ezarik
11. ntndeacon-- LYNCHED DAY ONE Rube Baker (regular ballplayer)
12. Gonzo-- KILLED NIGHT FIVE Willie Mays Hayes (the Seer)
13. PurdueBrad
14. st.cronin-- LYNCHED DAY TWO Eddie Harris (regular ballplayer)

[DaddyTorgo]

in

[Barkeep49]

I will play.

[KWhit]

I'm in.

Cool idea.

[Passacaglia]

Cleveland Rocks (oops, wrong one).

I'm in.

[Celeval]

What the hell, it's been a while. In.

[Pumpy Tudors]

CF: Willie Mays Hayes (Wesley Snipes--but if you squint real hard, Omar Epps)
I'm not playing, but I loved this. :D

[Lathum]

in

[MikeVic]

I've never played, but I would like to try since this is one of my favourite movies. So I'd like to join the game, but please don't throw rocks at me if I don't play te game "correctly." :)

[Passacaglia]

I've never played, but I would like to try since this is one of my favourite movies. So I'd like to join the game, but please don't throw rocks at me if I don't play te game "correctly." :)

Welcome to WW! We'll go easy on you! ;)

[hoopsguy]

I'll play. The deadline is going to be problematic for me, but I'm guessing it will be for a few others as well.

[KWhit]

I'll play. The deadline is going to be problematic for me, but I'm guessing it will be for a few others as well.

Yep. Me too. I won't be able to be around for any of the lynch deadlines.

[path12]

I'll play.

[Jonathan Ezarik]

I'll play. The early deadline will be a problem for me as well, but hopefully with the 24 hour deadline it shouldn't be too big of a deal.

[ntndeacon]

I will play too

[Gonzo]

I'm in...despite knowing absolutely nil about baseball.

[PurdueBrad]

Another newcomer, but I would like to give it a shot as well.

[RendeR]

I'd love to join but we'll be camping the weekend of the 10th-12th and will be utterly out of touch.

Sounds like a great concept though! I'll be watching!

[hoopsguy]

Purdue, congratulations on racing ahead of Gonzo on total FOFC posts.

[DaddyTorgo]

7pm EST deadline means that I will normally post my vote before I leave work (at 5pm EST), as typically I don't get back to the house until around 6:30 and then I have to shower and have dinner before I can think about getting online, and that will be way after 7. There is the possibility of me voting from my super-phone, but the web browser has been not working lately and i'm not entirely sure why.

[st.cronin]

I'll play.

[Lathum]

I'm excited to taste some new blood, err, see some new blood in the games.

[MikeVic]

I think 0 posts is a sign of the werewolf.

Is that how you play this game?

[Swaggs]

This looks like a good one and I enjoyed CR's last game, but the deadline and the fact that I'll be out of town next weekend knocks me out.

[hoopsguy]

I think 0 posts is a sign of the werewolf.

Is that how you play this game?

Easy for a Grizzled Veteran to say :)

And yes, that is pretty much how you play on Day 1. After that, some logic and reasoning should start to bleed into the process.

[Chief Rum]

Question: I felt that keeping the deadline at 7 p.m. EST (4 p.m. PDT) was important for consistency, but knew I had to do it because of work schedule early in the week.

But I only work that other job Monday and Tuesday during the work week (Saturday, too, but with malleable weekend schedules and the like I wasn't worried about Saturday).

So how about this? I push the game back one day, to start on Tuesday. Roles will still go out late Sunday night, so you get them early enough, so a bit of an extended Day One. Pushing the game back one day eliminates one of my work nights.

Then on Tuesday we have the 7 p.m. EST (4 p.m. PDT) deadline for Day One. The rest of the week it would be 10 p.m. EST (7 p.m. PDT), weekends to be determined (a lighter schedule, I presume).

By the time we get to next Monday, when the deadline would have to drop to 4 p.m. again for two days, most people will likely be out of the game (if it's still going).

So would that be more workable from a deadline perspective?

[DaddyTorgo]

I don't mind inconsistent deadlines. As long as everyone is made aware of them. So how about mon+tues 7pm EDT, and then the rest of the week 10pm EDT ??

[MikeVic]

I don't mind pushing the game to start Tuesday, and then having the times as you mentioned. It's a holiday here on Monday so I won't be on too much. ;)

[DaddyTorgo]

I don't mind pushing the game to start Tuesday, and then having the times as you mentioned. It's a holiday here on Monday so I won't be on too much. ;)


you canadians and your wacky holidays

[MikeVic]

you canadians and your wacky holidays

Hah.

[hoopsguy]

I would prefer to start when:
1.) the game is ready
2.) we have our numbers

I don't have any issue at all with deadlines at different times, as long as they are communicated ahead of time and properly reflected in the thread title.

[Chief Rum]

I think this might be a good way to do it, since even some of you who are participating admitted you might have troubles with the early deadline. I will include a projected schedule in post #2 or post #3 once the game gets going as well (along with mentions at the deadline and in the thread title). So making people aware shouldn't be an issue.

I think the only thing to be sure about right now is whether we should push the game back one day to simply take Monday night out of the equation. I can go either way, but am leaning toward pushing it back, because Day Two is starting to get rolling in the game (usually), and it would be better done at the later deadline.

I'm not too worried about numbers at this point, just making sure those who are playing will be able to play at the times which work best for them.

[Gonzo]

I've never played, but I would like to try since this is one of my favourite movies.

It's a film?? I did not know that.

[KWhit]

I like the idea of the later deadlines when possible. I'm fine with starting Monday or Tuesday.

[Chief Rum]

It's a film?? I did not know that.

Yup, it's one of the most popular baseball films ever made and considered by most fans, I believe, as the funniest of what I believe are the big four of baseball movies (Field of Dreams, The Natural, Bull Durham being the others, with all due respect to other baseball movies). Here's a link to its IMDB's page.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0097815/

Knowledge of the movie is not a prerequisite for playing in the game. You can know nothing about the movie, but follow the game rules, and you will be fine. But of course knowing about the movie certainly helps you get in to the theme.

[Lathum]

It's a film?? I did not know that.

:eek:

[Lathum]

I am good either way but since I died early last game I would love to star Monday!!

[Gonzo]

Yup, it's one of the most popular baseball films ever made and considered by most fans, I believe, as the funniest of what I believe are the big four of baseball movies (Field of Dreams, The Natural, Bull Durham being the others, with all due respect to other baseball movies). Here's a link to its IMDB's page.

Field of Dreams: vaguely familliar

The Natural: never heard of it

Bull Durham: is that a person?

[Gonzo]

They all star Kevin Costner!

[st.cronin]

O, those wacky brits.

[MikeVic]

They all star Kevin Costner!

Bull Durham is funny too. But it has more seriousness than Major League, and less funny (to me).

[Jonathan Ezarik]

Field of Dreams: vaguely familliar

The Natural: never heard of it

Bull Durham: is that a person?

I know who's getting my day one vote. :)

[Chief Rum]

They all star Kevin Costner!

LMAO. Only two of them.

He is well known for his baseball movies, though (also did For The Love of the Game; decent, not anywhere near the top four in quality), and for his other sports characters (Tin Cup leaps to mind, a movie I do think is good enough to belong with most great sports movies; it's about golf).

[Chief Rum]

Bull Durham is funny too. But it has more seriousness than Major League, and less funny (to me).

Yup, the serious side of Bull Durham brings it below Major League for comedic quality, IMO. But it is as funny in moments and quoteable as Major League.

[MikeVic]

Yup, the serious side of Bull Durham brings it below Major League for comedic quality, IMO. But it is as funny in moments and quoteable as Major League.

Yeah I still like Bull Durham a lot.

[Alan T]

LMAO. Only two of them.

He is well known for his baseball movies, though (also did For The Love of the Game; decent, not anywhere near the top four in quality), and for his other sports characters (Tin Cup leaps to mind, a movie I do think is good enough to belong with most great sports movies; it's about golf).


In order of my favorites:

Bull Durham
Major League
Field of Dreams
For the Love of the game.

In order of which I watch the most:

For the love of the game
Field of Dreams
Bull Durham
Major league..

Dunno why.. but something about For the Love of the Game just speaks to me.

[Passacaglia]

No love for Summer Catch? :)

[Chief Rum]

Dunno why.. but something about For the Love of the Game just speaks to me.

Actually, I really enjoy For the Love of the Game as well, but I know that's not really consensus opinion, so I leave it out when discussing great baseball movies.

[KWhit]

Bull Durham is the best baseball movie ever.

[DaddyTorgo]

Actually, I really enjoy For the Love of the Game as well, but I know that's not really consensus opinion, so I leave it out when discussing great baseball movies.


I enjoy it too. It was on the other night ya know.

[Chief Rum]

I enjoy it too. It was on the other night ya know.

Was it? What channel's playing it now (usually just one channel will hold cable rights to something that new)? I'll keep an eye out.

Speaking of which, out here at least, the signature movie of this thread is currently on Bravo.

[DaddyTorgo]

Was it? What channel's playing it now (usually just one channel will hold cable rights to something that new)? I'll keep an eye out.

Speaking of which, out here at least, the signature movie of this thread is currently on Bravo.

yep. It's on Bravo here too.

damm...ya know...i don't remember which channel it was.

[RendeR]

Bull Durham is the best baseball movie ever.

QFT

[Barkeep49]

As I am going to bed and don't have my role, I will just let you know now, much to what I am sure is your relief, that I am a villager. No need to vote here.

[Celeval]

Actually, I really enjoy For the Love of the Game as well, but I know that's not really consensus opinion, so I leave it out when discussing great baseball movies.

I've always enjoyed this one too.

[DaddyTorgo]

I'm apparently the A-Gon of Major League. My name's Ivan Molina.

Simple villager too.

[Lathum]

villegar checking in

[path12]

Jack Parkman checking in. You kids just stay out of the way and let me win these games for us.

[Passacaglia]

Wild Thing checking in. I wish I remembered this movie more, but if I recall, he was pretty funny.

[Chief Rum]

All PMs have been sent. Game startup post coming shortly.

Here is the text of the generic PM that everyone has received:

This is the generic PM referred to in your first PM (everyone has received another PM).

Your first PM takes precedence anywhere there is a contradiction.

You are all members of the Cleveland Indians organization. You all have names, roles and actions you may take. All actions for the day are due to me by that day's deadline.

Every member of the Indians can choose to affect the baseball game that night. Each member has three such actions. If you choose to use it, you lose it, regardless of whether or not your action figured in the winning of the game. Some players' actions will carry more weight than others, based on where they are in the talent rankings on the team. The most talented player's action offered to be used will be considered first. Only one player's action will actually be used in the game that night.

This PM is being sent to five people at a time, alphasbetically, regardless of allegiance.

As to that last sentence, Passacaglia and DaddyTorgo accidentally received theirs out of order. This is due to the rather significantly poor alphabetizing skills of the GM and nothing more.

[PurdueBrad]

Lou Brown checking in. Every newspaper in the country has picked us to finish dead last. But I'm for wasting sportswriters time so let's go out there and give them a nice big ****burger to eat.

[Chief Rum]

Harry Doyle: "Remember, fans, Tuesday is Die Hard Night. Free admission for anyone who was actually alive the last time the Indians won the pennant."


You're in the last days of the season and you're in a tight race for the pennant. And that witch of an owner you have is doing everything in her power to stop you. Can you avoid her treacherous traps and win it all? Or will Cleveland go through another awful, pennant-less winter?

The game has now officially begun.

GAME ON AND GOOD LUCK!!!

Day One is an extended day.

Day One Deadline is Tuesday, 7 P.M. EST/4 P.M. PDT

[hoopsguy]

Is there any reason to divulge which player on the roster we are? I don't really want to give an advantage to the rats that are working to keep our team from catching the stinking Yankees.

There were certain players on the roster that would seem more likely to be turncoats. Similarly, there are players on the roster who would seem more likely to benefit the team. I would like to hear some discussion on tipping our hands with player info before coming out and saying that I'm "Player X".

Because, obviously, I have a super-important villager role. Mondo important. Or else I just like playing contrarian. One or the other.

[path12]

I don't think it matters since the wolves already know which characters are or aren't in the game.

Of course, you're not as studly as Jack Parkman, so I can imagine why you would want to remain anonymous.

I wonder if it might not be helpful if we end up trying to strategize the times we use our game powers to try and win. After all, since nobody on this team is as good as I am, we'd want to make sure when I use my game power that one of you lesser lights isn't shut out......

(OOC, I can't believe I've never seen this movie. I'm not sure how accurate I'm being with this role.....)

[Barkeep49]

Is there any reason to divulge which player on the roster we are? I don't really want to give an advantage to the rats that are working to keep our team from catching the stinking Yankees.

There were certain players on the roster that would seem more likely to be turncoats. Similarly, there are players on the roster who would seem more likely to benefit the team. I would like to hear some discussion on tipping our hands with player info before coming out and saying that I'm "Player X".

Because, obviously, I have a super-important villager role. Mondo important. Or else I just like playing contrarian. One or the other.
The rules explicitly say there is no linkage between names and roles except for two of the bad guys. We know all of the names which are in the game. I think we ought to all be revealing our names. Mine is Ken Parkhurst.

[Barkeep49]

Path: Just confirming: You're claiming to be Jack Parkman?

[Celeval]

*bleary-eyed* Damnit, this is starting already? Christ, I'm hung over, my knees are killin' me and if you're going to pull this shit at least you could've said you were from the Yankees.

[DaddyTorgo]

one of the problems with revealing names though is it gives the wolves a target of who the more powerful players "Major League" wise are though, and thus a blueprint to pick them off that way...

[DaddyTorgo]

of course that may not be all bad if it keeps them away from traditionally stronger-WW players to go after people with important names/game affecting ability

[Barkeep49]

one of the problems with revealing names though is it gives the wolves a target of who the more powerful players "Major League" wise are though, and thus a blueprint to pick them off that way...
True and I thought of that. To me winning needs to be our first priority. Winning really well would just be a bonus.

[hoopsguy]

The rules explicitly say there is no linkage between names and roles except for two of the bad guys. We know all of the names which are in the game. I think we ought to all be revealing our names. Mine is Ken Parkhurst.

one of the problems with revealing names though is it gives the wolves a target of who the more powerful players "Major League" wise are though, and thus a blueprint to pick them off that way...

Don't you think the wolves would prefer to go after Jake Taylor than after "Random Dude #1"? Who is more likely to influence the wins? If there is something in the rules that suggests that there is no relation between role name and their ability to impact the win, then I'm a little more inclined to release information.

No, I'm not Jake Taylor. I might not even be someone cool. But based on my understanding of the rules I think our strategy of revealing names is flawed at the moment.

[Barkeep49]

Don't you think the wolves would prefer to go after Jake Taylor than after "Random Dude #1"? Who is more likely to influence the wins? If there is something in the rules that suggests that there is no relation between role name and their ability to impact the win, then I'm a little more inclined to release information.

No, I'm not Jake Taylor. I might not even be someone cool. But based on my understanding of the rules I think our strategy of revealing names is flawed at the moment.
Based on this post I'm going to go ahead and vote for Hoops. I've never known him to be so oblivious to the rules. "If there is something in the rules"? C'mon, hoops would have gone back and found the important part, without much effort. So this is my vote for him. Next post will be a real response where I quote the rules explaining why we need to role reveal.

Vote Hoopsguy

[Lathum]

VOTE HOOPSGUY

I still owe you this one.

[Passacaglia]

I'm not sure what I think about names. I was all for it in Alan's game, but then we got distracted by all the shiny potions and such. After getting myself into trouble about it in the first day, it turned out they were pretty meaningless.

I gotta admit, my inclination is to be suspicious of folks that don't want to reveal names, but I like DT's point. Like I said, it's been a while since I've seen the movie -- is it pretty obvious who is more talented on the team?

[Barkeep49]

No editing of posts is allowed in this thread except by me, or by Barkeep, and only in his role as the forum moderator.
First let me thank CR for the love.

The only characters that are absolutely allied one way are Rachel Phelps and Charlie Donovan, the owner and GM, and they will be wolves.

Whoever has these roles are allied and are bad. There are two extra roles, presumably for these two characters, but I would love to start to force the wolves to lie from the get go.

These roles will be handed out at random, and can end on any player in the game.

Here's where we learn there's no correlation between baseball ability and WW finding ability.

[hoopsguy]

Not everyone will be a character from the movies, although everyone will have a name. Roles and allegiance are not related to the character names. The only characters that are absolutely allied one way are Rachel Phelps and Charlie Donovan, the owner and GM, and they will be wolves.

That is in the rules. I see nothing that talks about order of action, which is a key component of the effectiveness of a player.

I'm not suggesting that Jake Taylor is the bodyguard or something like that. I'm suggesting, without knowing one way or the other, that he is more likely to have the ability to impact the outcome of the game.

I'm more than willing to pose this question to the GM to answer. If he says that was determined through random.org, then I'm fine with coming forward with information on role.

[hoopsguy]

Now if you want to try and put the squeeze on Phelps and Donovan by making them declare a role - there are 14 players and 16 listed names - then I completely get that strategy. I would expect them to flock to one of the four random-ish names rather than one of the name players in an attempt to avoid conflict.

I'm not either Phelps or Donovan and I won't be making a play at one of the random names at the bottom, some of which have already been claimed.

I wasn't intending to dig into this position as vehemently as I'm having to, but I don't think you are seeing the whole picture here Barkeep. And firing away with a 9:00 AM vote, before trying to have a discussion on this (which was my goal here) seems aggressive and outright dumb from where I'm sitting.

[Passacaglia]

Whoa, I almost missed lathum's vote in that slew. Is that another lathum joke-vote?

[hoopsguy]

Some or all of the players listed in the roster in Post #1 could be in the game. The wolves will know which ones are in the game, and so will be able to assume absent character identities, so as to not limit the potential pool of wolves based on name.

If anything, I'm inclined to be more suspicious of the people leaping to claim names because the wolves know they are going to be able to avoid conflicts. So, contrary to the possible reason to reveal names listed in my last post, there is no reason that I can see to give the wolves a list of targets who are more likely to influence the outcome of a game with their "step it up" performance, by virtue of being a better baseball player.

And, I would suggest that some of the other "name" players agree with me as I've seen very few of the Indians marquee players come forward up to this point.

[hoopsguy]

Whoa, I almost missed lathum's vote in that slew. Is that another lathum joke-vote?

Barkeep is the one who has put me in position to be lynched in event of a tie, based on the tie-breaker rules in this game. So while I'm not thrilled with either vote, the first one is the one that annoys me more.

[Barkeep49]

I'm announcing right now that I'm going to do my best to shut up early on in the next game. Hoops is already angling towards going after me and so I think I'll just quietly face my fate next game rather than inviting it in.

[hoopsguy]

Barkeep, can you continue demonstrating for me just how oblivious I am about the rules?

Since the reveals are already out there for the wolves to see, here are the notes that I'm using to track what people want to divulge. I'll continue tracking these, but I'm hoping not to have a ton more names to work with until we get some kind of consensus on whether reveals help/hurt our cause.


DaddyT - Ivan Molina (random dude)
Lathum - undeclared villager
Path - Jack Parkman (C/DH)
Pass - Wild Thing (P)
Purdue - Lou Brown (Mgr)
Ceveval - hints at Jake Taylor (C)
Hoops - undeclared position player

[hoopsguy]

I'm announcing right now that I'm going to do my best to shut up early on in the next game. Hoops is already angling towards going after me and so I think I'll just quietly face my fate next game rather than inviting it in.

Angling to go after you? Dude, you came out blazing after me with your vote! You accuse me of not reading the rules, which MUST make me a wolf, and were wrong on both counts. I don't retaliate with a vote immediately, as we have 1.5 days before deadline, but I'M THE ONE GOING AFTER YOU?

What kind of Bizarro world are you living in?

[Passacaglia]

Barkeep, can you continue demonstrating for me just how oblivious I am about the rules?

Since the reveals are already out there for the wolves to see, here are the notes that I'm using to track what people want to divulge. I'll continue tracking these, but I'm hoping not to have a ton more names to work with until we get some kind of consensus on whether reveals help/hurt our cause.


DaddyT - Ivan Molina (random dude)
Lathum - undeclared villager
Path - Jack Parkman (C/DH)
Pass - Wild Thing (P)
Purdue - Lou Brown (Mgr)
Ceveval - hints at Jake Taylor (C)
Hoops - undeclared position player

Thanks for this, hoops. But do we need to worry about the names giving an indication of talent? I mean, aren't we all supposed to be pretty talentless?

[hoopsguy]

Can someone refresh my memory on who Jack Parkman is in the game? I did a search for the name against the movie script and didn't see it. Nor do I see an actor "David Keith" listed in the imdb.com cast page.

[Passacaglia]

I think I've lost track of the argument here. :)

[hoopsguy]

Thanks for this, hoops. But do we need to worry about the names giving an indication of talent? I mean, aren't we all supposed to be pretty talentless?

Given that the team is competing for a division title, we obviously are not talentless. Given that the rules state that some players have more ability to impact a win with their night actions, we obviously are not equally talented.

[Barkeep49]

The rules explicitly say there is no linkage between names and roles except for two of the bad guys. We know all of the names which are in the game. I think we ought to all be revealing our names. Mine is Ken Parkhurst.
My reveal is here. I'm a pinch hitting specialist.

[KWhit]

Kind of surprised that votes are already flying around.

Anyway.... Not sure about the name thing. I don't know if it makes sense to reveal them yet or not.

So for now, I'll just state that I'm a normal villager/ballplayer checking in.

[hoopsguy]

I think I've lost track of the argument here. :)

Summary below:

Hoops - why are we all revealing our names? We might be giving away free info to the wolves.

Barkeep - read the rules, Hoops. Vote Hoops

Barkeep - post rules

Hoops - hmm, those rules don't make your point about night actions.

Barkeep - Hoops is gunning for me

Hoops - scratches head, continues trying to get meaning out of Day 1

[Passacaglia]

Summary below:

Hoops - why are we all revealing our names? We might be giving away free info to the wolves.

Barkeep - read the rules, Hoops. Vote Hoops

Barkeep - post rules

Hoops - hmm, those rules don't make your point about night actions.

Barkeep - Hoops is gunning for me

Hoops - scratches head, continues trying to get meaning out of Day 1

Thanks. Can I get Barkeeps's side now? :)

[hoopsguy]

Looks like Parkman makes his appearance in Major League 2, which I have not seen. So Path, no idea if you are "playing" him correctly.

[hoopsguy]

Thanks. Can I get Barkeeps's side now? :)

I'm not paranoid/delusional enough to adequately capture his state of mind at the moment, I'm afraid.

[Lathum]

So I am confused. There are 16 names and 14 players. Why shouldn't we reveal our names. The wolves would have to try and fake reveal. The odds are they will pick a name already taken and we can go from there?

I am Isuro Tanaka

[hoopsguy]

So I am confused. There are 16 names and 14 players. Why shouldn't we reveal our names. The wolves would have to try and fake reveal. The odds are they will pick a name already taken and we can go from there?

I am Isuro Tanaka

No, they won't.

From Post #2, by Chief Rum
Some or all of the players listed in the roster in Post #1 could be in the game. The wolves will know which ones are in the game, and so will be able to assume absent character identities, so as to not limit the potential pool of wolves based on name.

[KWhit]

I don't want to be left as one of the last to reveal my name if that's going to draw suspicion later.

I am Tom Kettner.

[Gonzo]

I'm Willie Mays Hays. I can hit faster than "Mays" and run faster than..."Hays". Or it might be the other way round. And I'm a villager too.

[KWhit]

No, they won't.

From Post #2, by Chief Rum
Some or all of the players listed in the roster in Post #1 could be in the game. The wolves will know which ones are in the game, and so will be able to assume absent character identities, so as to not limit the potential pool of wolves based on name.

If that's the case, why wouldn't we want to reveal?

Do you think that the ability to influence the game is tied to the player name? I would imagine that CR would randomize that for the game (at least I'd hope so). Otherwise it would be too easy for the wolves to pick off the best players, don't you think?

[Lathum]

SCOUT: This is a nontraditional seer role. There is an in-game talent ranking for all players in the game which will determine how they can affect the nightly baseball game. The scout can investigate one player per day and will be told where in this ranking that player's character lies, be it first, second, third, last, etc. This ranking will remain static regardless of whether the players in are still alive. So if the fourth ranked talent is the top remaining talent in the game, the scout will still nonetheless be told that player has the ranking of fourth. The scout will NOT be told the player's in-game identity or allegiance. Wolves will also have talent rankings.

I think this answers the question about the player ranking.

[hoopsguy]

If that's the case, why wouldn't we want to reveal?

Do you think that the ability to influence the game is tied to the player name? I would imagine that CR would randomize that for the game (at least I'd hope so). Otherwise it would be too easy for the wolves to pick off the best players, don't you think?

He has said that the role is not related to the name (seer, bodyguard). But there is nothing that I've found, one way or the other, on ability to impact the game being related to role.

Chief only listed the roles in the game. He didn't compel us to publish them all in the thread. The players participating have done that before Chief was given an opportunity to respond to the question. Either way, 60% of the people in the game have claimed roles by now so if game-changing ability is related to the player name then we certainly have helped the Yankees in our first few hours today.

That is what I've been railing about this morning. Why are we rushing to put this info out there, when it is no benefit to the Indians? We aren't going to flush out traitors this way. If Chief comes back and says ability was generated through random.org then I would be happy to have everyone list their character name and enjoy role-playing them to their heart's content.

[Passacaglia]

I think this answers the question about the player ranking.

Does it? Are you thinking, then, that a player's baseball talent is random, and name has no effect on it? That's my thinking.

[hoopsguy]

I think this answers the question about the player ranking.

Right, so the scout can check out one of the stud players on Night 1 and start the ball rolling in terms of determining relative strength/weakness of players. But the scout description doesn't say anything, one way or the other, about how talent was assigned in the game.

[Barkeep49]

I'm not paranoid/delusional enough to adequately capture his state of mind at the moment, I'm afraid.
Shame on you for casting aspersions. Hoops, you're smart enough to know that if you keep laying out the case against me, as you've been doing with posts starting with 82 and continuing with this one hopping that someone else takes the bait and goes against me, so you can later climb aboard. I think your game has been off. And that's more than good enough for a D1 vote.

[hoopsguy]

Barkeep, I'm not even interested in having anargument with you about how I'm gunning for you. As of right now, I'm not. I just think you are making a rotten Day 1 play.

I'm playing to help us get to the World Series. You are trying to vote off a contributing player, which inadvertantly (or intentionally, I don't know) helps the management weasels on our team.

You suggested I wasn't paying attention to the rules. I did. However, I do from time to time like to see what other people are paying attention to the game. Based on your posts on the rules, you did not (in my opinion) adequately consider the potential mechanics for the villager night actions. As it relates to the player role information, which we have (again, my opinion) foolishly published for the wolves.

[Lathum]

Right, so the scout can check out one of the stud players on Night 1 and start the ball rolling in terms of determining relative strength/weakness of players. But the scout description doesn't say anything, one way or the other, about how talent was assigned in the game.

Well what would the point of the Scout role be if it wasn't assigned randomly?

[hoopsguy]

Well what would the point of the Scout role be if it wasn't assigned randomly?

Who is more likely to help win a game, Jake Taylor or Pedro Cerrano? Or Rick Vaughn? Or Lou Brown? Or Willie Mays Hayes? I'm not sure, and that is the kind of thing that the Scout would determine.

However, I would suggest that all five of those guys are more likely to help get a win than Ivan Molina if the talent is not assigned randomly.

[Lathum]

Who is more likely to help win a game, Jake Taylor or Pedro Cerrano? Or Rick Vaughn? Or Lou Brown? Or Willie Mays Hayes? I'm not sure, and that is the kind of thing that the Scout would determine.

However, I would suggest that all five of those guys are more likely to help get a win than Ivan Molina if the talent is not assigned randomly.

my point is that the role of the scout seems pointless if roles aren't assigned randomly.

[hoopsguy]

my point is that the role of the scout seems pointless if roles aren't assigned randomly.

I'm not sure how you can make that point while quoting my post. The Scout can help us by publishing information that allows us to coordinate our night actions to better win games and gain the pennant.

He can tell us that Lou Brown is more important than Rick Vaughn. He can tell us that Pedro Cerrano is the most important person to winning games, so if he says he tried to win and another players actions were processed then Cerrano is full of crap.

The Scout has the same value, regardless of how talent is assigned. Because if it wasn't random then we still don't know the rankings, but can only make more educated guesses. The Scout won't be making educated guesses with the players he visits - he will know exactly where they stand.

[Barkeep49]

Hoops, I said it before and I'll say it again: I'm not concerned about winning baseball games. I read that part, considered it, and decided it was far less important than killing off the wolves.

[Lathum]

which means the roles are randomly assigned!!

are we even discussing the same point?

[PurdueBrad]

Better teach these guys some control before they kill somebody!

[Barkeep49]

which means the roles are randomly assigned!!

are we even discussing the same point?
I don't think so. I think hoops is hung up on winning baseball games which is where his whole analysis is coming from. It's just fine if that's your priority, I just don't see what it should be ours.

[hoopsguy]

which means the roles are randomly assigned!!

are we even discussing the same point?

Roles - yes (per the rules)

Talent - I don't know (not in the rules)

The Scout is looking at Talent, not roles.

The Seer (per the rules) is looking at identity and allegiance.

So, where is the confusion with this?

[PurdueBrad]

I'm Willie Mays Hays. I can hit faster than "Mays" and run faster than..."Hays". Or it might be the other way round. And I'm a villager too.

You may run like Mays but you hit like ****!

Sorry, running out of Lou Brown quotes so I thought I should get them out here while I can.

[hoopsguy]

Hoops, I said it before and I'll say it again: I'm not concerned about winning baseball games. I read that part, considered it, and decided it was far less important than killing off the wolves.

Victory conditions suggest that we should be concerned about both.

There is no advantage to be gained by pushing for role reveals when it won't trap a wolf, per the rules.

[hoopsguy]

You may run like Mays but you hit like ****!

Sorry, running out of Lou Brown quotes so I thought I should get them out here while I can.

Don't be afraid to scare us, Lou. I've heard that works well for motivating a team.

[DaddyTorgo]

I see my troubles getting on the board didn't result in me missing much of anything.

I think we're getting very sidetracked, which is okay given that we have a long D1, but let's keep it in focus. We don't want to have this discussion define the entire game. that's how we get way off track and behind the 8-ball.

[hoopsguy]

I'm fine with hashing through this discussion as long as people want, but ultimately Chief Rum is going to give us an answer on how talent was determined (random or not random).

But I agree that by tomorrow we should be discussing how to coordinate our actions to win the baseball game (night action).

[Lathum]

Roles - yes (per the rules)

Talent - I don't know (not in the rules)

The Scout is looking at Talent, not roles.

The Seer (per the rules) is looking at identity and allegiance.

So, where is the confusion with this?

I meant talent is randomly assigned. Otherwise why have the scout?

[hoopsguy]

I meant talent is randomly assigned. Otherwise why have the scout?

OK, lets take another approach here. If it isn't randomly assigned, how would you rate the player names listed?

I'm guessing if you and I compared lists, we would have the same people at the top and the same people at the bottom, but the order would be different. Kind of like two sportswriters from different regions ranking college football teams. Which one of us would be closer to the computer rankings (Chief Rum, to extend the analogy)?

The Scout would have the ability to look at Chief Rum's rankings, and then help guide us to put together better rankings even if we have a rough idea of how they might sort themselves out.

Given that 60% of people have revealed already, I'm hoping that you are right and that my pet theory here is wrong. I hope talent is 100% assigned randomly. If/when Chief Rum says that, then I'll post my character name (although process of elimination has me down to a small set of selections, given that I've said I'm a position player) and happily move on with the rest of the game rather than continue to beat this badly bleeding horse.

[Passacaglia]

OK, lets take another approach here. If it isn't randomly assigned, how would you rate the player names listed?

I'm guessing if you and I compared lists, we would have the same people at the top and the same people at the bottom, but the order would be different. Kind of like two sportswriters from different regions ranking college football teams. Which one of us would be closer to the computer rankings (Chief Rum, to extend the analogy)?

The Scout would have the ability to look at Chief Rum's rankings, and then help guide us to put together better rankings even if we have a rough idea of how they might sort themselves out.

Given that 60% of people have revealed already, I'm hoping that you are right and that my pet theory here is wrong. I hope talent is 100% assigned randomly. If/when Chief Rum says that, then I'll post my character name (although process of elimination has me down to a small set of selections, given that I've said I'm a position player) and happily move on with the rest of the game rather than continue to beat this badly bleeding horse.

You really think so? I mean, from my memory of the movie, it's not like they really laid out who was more talented than others. I get what your saying about big names vs. unknown names, but for the rest, are you basing it off of how much screen time they get? I'm not sure how you can watch that movie and get an idea of who is more talented.

[path12]

Path: Just confirming: You're claiming to be Jack Parkman?

I am the one and only Jack Parkman.

[path12]

And, I would suggest that some of the other "name" players agree with me as I've seen very few of the Indians marquee players come forward up to this point.

There is only one "name" player on the Indians. Jack Parkman. I don't care who knows it.

[path12]

I will be number one in talent.

[path12]

Oops, meant to quote Pass on that.

[PurdueBrad]

I will be number one in talent.

Parkman, there is no I in team. With that kind of attitude, it is no wonder we are in the position we're in.

[MikeVic]

I see what hoopsguy is saying. Even if you say that it's impossible to rank the players in the movie on talent based on screen time, it makes sense to me that the "screen time" players would have more talent than the fake players.

I think with every "screen time" player, though, they each have a strenght and weakness from the movies that could make them good or bad talents. If we're assuming the players all have talent based on their end-of-movie performances, then a guy like Eddie Harris, with little screen time, can be possibly ranked high with regards to talent. I believe he pitched something like 7 or 8 solid innings in their make-it-or-break-it game, didn't he?

Name-revealing could be useful in the strategy for when we should each use our "step it up" powers... but I don't think we should get all gung-ho about revealing names until we get an answer from ChiefRum.

[ntndeacon]

I am hopeful that talent is randomly granted. Of course just being up in the show is an honor.

[ntndeacon]

another thing we might want to address as a group, is who tries to use thier step it up power. since we have 3 uses of it, we might want to have 4 a day using it. This would take away us wasting too many chances. I say 4 because we want to have at least 1 true member to the team. (I am including a chance that someone gets paid off in the estimate of 4)

[hoopsguy]

On the topic of "step it up" - how long do people expect the game to go? We have fourteen players, and we are going to be losing one per day and probably people at night as well.

Five days? Six days? Seven at most?

With that in mind, I think we can put out a list of 5-6 people per day who are responsible for making a judgement call to use, or not use, their power that night. Some of the people will use it and others won't - depending on their individual decisions and how they think the other people in the group will go. Those people can choose to communicate with each other in the thread however they want about the usage.

I don't like the idea of everyone in the game making the decision each and every day as our standard format. I'm worried that too many people will burn through their "step it up" stuff too early under that structure.

As far as a selection criteria, maybe something like number listed in the signup thread - if we go with a group of five, then the people are grouped like so:

Night 1: 1, 4, 7, 10, 13
Night 2: 2, 5, 8, 11, 14
Night 3: 3, 6, 9, 12, ?

Obviously we'll have to move people into slots to fill these numbers as people get bumped. But I figured I could put out a potential framework to see how people feel about it.

[Barkeep49]

another thing we might want to address as a group, is who tries to use thier step it up power. since we have 3 uses of it, we might want to have 4 a day using it. This would take away us wasting too many chances. I say 4 because we want to have at least 1 true member to the team. (I am including a chance that someone gets paid off in the estimate of 4)
Except only one person's step it up matters a day. So if more than one person uses it in a day one of them will be wasting theirs.

[MikeVic]

I didn't think of using more than one step-it-up power a night, but that makes 100% sense.

Since I'm indispensable to the team, I can use mine when we most need it.

Oh, and I'm a simple villager too.

[PurdueBrad]

Night 1: 1, 4, 7, 10, 13
Night 2: 2, 5, 8, 11, 14
Night 3: 3, 6, 9, 12, ?

Obviously we'll have to move people into slots to fill these numbers as people get bumped. But I figured I could put out a potential framework to see how people feel about it.

I appreciate the idea of a schedule but I'm concerned about the wolves picking off people based on who would be using their powers each night. Although I guess by process of elimination there, we might be able to figure out the wolves as well but we would be sacrificing some people for that info. I think we could ask people, last minute, to submit their powers in order to keep things concealed till last possible moment.

[MikeVic]

One more thing about revealing players...

There's 14 players, and 16 names. The wolves know which of the 14 are playing, so they can assume the role of the other two. But the wolves don't know who each other are.

However, if a wolf sees an identity being claimed that wasn't in the list of 14 players in the game, they now know who the other wolf is. This is a big advantage for them isn't it? We may have already tipped the scales in the wolves favour.

[hoopsguy]

Mike, did I miss something where the wolves don't know who each other?

[hoopsguy]

I appreciate the idea of a schedule but I'm concerned about the wolves picking off people based on who would be using their powers each night. Although I guess by process of elimination there, we might be able to figure out the wolves as well but we would be sacrificing some people for that info. I think we could ask people, last minute, to submit their powers in order to keep things concealed till last possible moment.

Yep, and they can also pick people off to try and stack the deck for the schedule the following night. There are all kinds of ways for the wolves to attack our plan if we publish it for them.

But the alternative is an "every man for himself" approach, which I worry will result in a very sub-optimal use of our "step up" performances.

If we don't adopt the approach I've put out I won't be heartbroken. But I do hope that we have some kind of structured plan from day-to-day.

[MikeVic]

Mike, did I miss something where the wolves don't know who each other?

(OOC, Umm I don't know, I thought they didn't know each other. I was reading another game where people were discussing almost accidentally lynching a fellow wolf. Do the wolves know who each other are in these games?)

[Passacaglia]

(OOC, Umm I don't know, I thought they didn't know each other. I was reading another game where people were discussing almost accidentally lynching a fellow wolf. Do the wolves know who each other are in these games?)

Yeah, with rare exceptions, the wolves know each other.

[MikeVic]

Yeah, with rare exceptions, the wolves know each other.

Ok thanks, disregard my previous "revelation" then. :)

[hoopsguy]

Chief - will we publicly learn when a player has successfully used a "Step It Up" action to influence the outcome of a game? Is this captured in a night actions summary post, for example?

[ntndeacon]

On the topic of "step it up" - how long do people expect the game to go? We have fourteen players, and we are going to be losing one per day and probably people at night as well.

Five days? Six days? Seven at most?

With that in mind, I think we can put out a list of 5-6 people per day who are responsible for making a judgement call to use, or not use, their power that night. Some of the people will use it and others won't - depending on their individual decisions and how they think the other people in the group will go. Those people can choose to communicate with each other in the thread however they want about the usage.

I don't like the idea of everyone in the game making the decision each and every day as our standard format. I'm worried that too many people will burn through their "step it up" stuff too early under that structure.

As far as a selection criteria, maybe something like number listed in the signup thread - if we go with a group of five, then the people are grouped like so:

Night 1: 1, 4, 7, 10, 13
Night 2: 2, 5, 8, 11, 14
Night 3: 3, 6, 9, 12, ?

Obviously we'll have to move people into slots to fill these numbers as people get bumped. But I figured I could put out a potential framework to see how people feel about it.

this is what I was talking about. I am ok with more than 4 but figured 4 was the minimum we should have trying at once. if we were to do it this way I would suggest just starting the list over like so:

Night 1: 1, 4, 7, 10, 13
Night 2: 2, 5, 8, 11, 14
Night 3: 3, 6, 9, 12, 1
Night 4: 4, 7, 10, 13, 2
Night 5: 5, 8, 11, 14, 3
Night 6: 6, 9, 12, 1, 4

[hoopsguy]

this is what I was talking about. I am ok with more than 4 but figured 4 was the minimum we should have trying at once. if we were to do it this way I would suggest just starting the list over like so:

Night 1: 1, 4, 7, 10, 13
Night 2: 2, 5, 8, 11, 14
Night 3: 3, 6, 9, 12, 1
Night 4: 4, 7, 10, 13, 2
Night 5: 5, 8, 11, 14, 3
Night 6: 6, 9, 12, 1, 4

Exactly, but the list is going to get edited by player deaths so forecasting out that far probably doesn't convey the results we are likely to get.

Since day and night actions are due at the same time it should help the Seer, Scout, and Bodyguard to have some idea of the people who will potentially be step-up performers. It doesn't mean they have to act in concert with one of those people, but it gives them more information to plan their action.

[path12]

Parkman, there is no I in team. With that kind of attitude, it is no wonder we are in the position we're in.

I am the drink that stirs the camel's hump. I am the wings beneath the airplane. I am an engine of swat. Women covet me, men envy me -- for good reason.

No problem with having a schedule -- even if the wolves try to pick one of the people on the list off, someone else is going to get the chance to step up. Besides, if I was a wolf (instead of the incredibly handsome and talented Jack Parkman), I'd be looking for the seer and bodyguard rather than worrying about the games.

[KWhit]

I think a list makes sense too. At the very least, it will keep everyone from using their action on the same day.

[hoopsguy]

So, I'm hoping that we get some chatter going on our approach for tomorrow. No rush, but it has been over four hours since the last post. That is pretty much unheard of on a Day 1.

Oh, and I would love for someone else to pick up some votes so I don't get the axe on Day 1. But that is just me being selfish, I suppose ...

[Jonathan Ezarik]

Another villager checking in here. I'm going to hold off giving my name until we hear from Chief Rum regarding the distribution of talent.

A couple of thoughts reading through the thread:

* Barkeep's play today has me scratching my head. I saw absolutely nothing wrong with what hoopsguy was saying, and it seemed to me like Barkeep took it completely out of proportion.

* I'm somewhat surprised that Lou Brown is in the game. I can see how the rest of us can "step up" to win a game, but what can a manager really do?

* I feel pretty strongly that at least one of the big name players is a wolf and we would be going way off base (get it?) going after the no name players.

[Passacaglia]

It is a wonder that today was so quiet. I guess there's something to be said about the fact that there's not much to go on during Day 1, then throwing in the fact that today comprised only half of Day 1. I am with JE in being confused about Barkeep today -- but I'm willing to wait and hear what he has to say tomorrow.

[PurdueBrad]

* I'm somewhat surprised that Lou Brown is in the game. I can see how the rest of us can "step up" to win a game, but what can a manager really do?



Ouch! Who are you, Dorn?!? Questioning my value! I have the ability to sway a baseball game through motivation, late game replacements, etc. Hell, worse comes to worse, I can have a heart attack and Jake Taylor can give one of those sappy win one for the Gipper speeches!

[Jonathan Ezarik]

Ouch! Who are you, Dorn?!? Questioning my value! I have the ability to sway a baseball game through motivation, late game replacements, etc. Hell, worse comes to worse, I can have a heart attack and Jake Taylor can give one of those sappy win one for the Gipper speeches!

Sorry. All these years of being a Pirates' fan has made me forget what a good manager can mean to a team. :)

[Jonathan Ezarik]

Ok, after going back and reading through the day again, I'm going to go ahead and throw a vote out there. I'm not convinced that he's evil, but what else do we have to go on today? Plus, I really don't like how he was so eager to get the first vote on hoopsguy, especially with the tie breakers being what they are. Throw in Lathum's vote immediately after Barkeep's and it smells fishy to me.

VOTE BARKEEP

[PurdueBrad]

Sorry. All these years of being a Pirates' fan has made me forget what a good manager can mean to a team. :)

Pirate fan here too, I'll just try to avoid bring Jim Tracy-like qualities to the Lou Brown era of the Indians!

[hoopsguy]

For what it is worth, I got my answer from Chief via PM. I'm hoping that he will state the answer here as well.

Short version - it is up to us to figure out how talent is allocated. I'm sure he'll give a longer answer if he is so inclined. He is Chief Rum, so I would expect the longer answer :)

[hoopsguy]

Barkeep, I'll accept an apology in the form of an unvote, even though you still have put me at risk on the vote tomorrow night.

[Chief Rum]

That is in the rules. I see nothing that talks about order of action, which is a key component of the effectiveness of a player.

I'm not suggesting that Jake Taylor is the bodyguard or something like that. I'm suggesting, without knowing one way or the other, that he is more likely to have the ability to impact the outcome of the game.

I'm more than willing to pose this question to the GM to answer. If he says that was determined through random.org, then I'm fine with coming forward with information on role.

I responded to hoops' query in a PM, but he wanted me to also state it here, which is fine.

I'm afriad I cannot offer any further guidance on if in-movie ability is related at all to the talent list. You all will have to work this out for yourselves.

[Chief Rum]

Chief - will we publicly learn when a player has successfully used a "Step It Up" action to influence the outcome of a game? Is this captured in a night actions summary post, for example?

Yes, it should be clear from the right up, whose action was used, as it will be the key play of the game. If not, though, you can ask, and I will say explicitly. This will be publically revealed information at every deadline.

[Chief Rum]

* I'm somewhat surprised that Lou Brown is in the game. I can see how the rest of us can "step up" to win a game, but what can a manager really do?.

You must be a sabermetrics fan. ;)

[st.cronin]

Crafty lefty just now checking in, haven't yet read the rules or the thread.

[st.cronin]

Vote PurdueBrad

Staying away from hoops and Barkeep today.

[KWhit]

Vote PurdueBrad

Staying away from hoops and Barkeep today.

Any real reason to vote for PB?

Other than the fact that we have to vote for someone and it's day one?

:)

[DaddyTorgo]

VOTE ST. CRONIN

says he hasn't read the thread, then 5 minutes later votes for PurdueBrad without explanation.

[MikeVic]

Ok, so we don't know if knowing which players we are affects the game at all. And I don't know who to vote for either.

Are we going to follow a schedule for the step-it-up?

[Passacaglia]

Morning check-in from me. I feel like BK and hoops just always need to find something to argue about on Day 1 (didn't this just happen a game or two ago?), so I'm inclined to vote elsewhere. On the other hand, Barkeep's game has been pretty confusing, so I'm inclined to vote for him. It's a tough call at this point.

[st.cronin]

Any real reason to vote for PB?

No.

Other than the fact that we have to vote for someone and it's day one?

:)

Pretty much. Also an unusually high ratio of posts to useful posts.

And I just don't want to vote for BK or hoops, it has the smell of villager on villager crime. I'm willing to revisit it down the road, but not on day 1.

[path12]

Ok, so we don't know if knowing which players we are affects the game at all. And I don't know who to vote for either.

Are we going to follow a schedule for the step-it-up?

Jack Parkman is steppin' it up tonight. Stand back.

[Barkeep49]

I'm glad we've settled on confusing for me this game rather than aggressive. I was so tired of aggressive. Confusing is new and different.

[st.cronin]

I was going to describe BK as "aggressively confusing," but never mind.

[Passacaglia]

I'm glad we've settled on confusing for me this game rather than aggressive. I was so tired of aggressive. Confusing is new and different.

Seriously? You'd rather whine about it than clear it up?

[MikeVic]

Jack Parkman is steppin' it up tonight. Stand back.

I'll have you know I'm a valuable member of this team, still able to contribute in any way I can. All that talk about retirement was nonsense.

[path12]

I'll have you know I'm a valuable member of this team, still able to contribute in any way I can. All that talk about retirement was nonsense.


Hey, Jack Parkman appreciates all that you little people do. I may even remember you when I give my Hall of Fame speech. But when it comes to winning the game, step aside old man.

[hoopsguy]

Current vote count:

Hoops - Barkeep (74), Lathum (75)
Barkeep - JE (152)
Purdue - Cronin (160)
Cronin - Torgo (162)

[KWhit]

I wish I could join in all of this roleplaying, but I'm a no-name sucha nd such.

Oh yeah, I have haven't seen the movie in about 20 years, so I don't remember anything about it anyway.

[hoopsguy]

I've got two goals for today:
1. Get someone to attract more votes than me (duh)
2. Get some more conversation on the "step it up" action plan. We need to have a structure in place with enough time for people to act upon it. A couple of us have floated an initial plan - do people see a better approach than the one listed in the thread? Weaknesses in the current plan that we can address?

[KWhit]

Obviously, that should read:

Oh yeah, I haven't seen the movie in about 20 years, so I don't remember anything about it anyway.

[Barkeep49]

Seriously? You'd rather whine about it than clear it up?
Wasn't a whine, was more relief.

Not sure what people find confusing about it at this point, as I thought I'd responded to anything specific. If you want to state what you find confusing I can respond to it.

[Barkeep49]

I've got two goals for today:
1. Get someone to attract more votes than me (duh)
2. Get some more conversation on the "step it up" action plan. We need to have a structure in place with enough time for people to act upon it. A couple of us have floated an initial plan - do people see a better approach than the one listed in the thread? Weaknesses in the current plan that we can address?
Biggest weakness is the uncertainty over who will still be around due to lynchings/kills. Otherwise I'm all for it and will step up my rather weak game whenever I'm asked.

[hoopsguy]

Barkeep, I'm confused why you have left your vote on me.

[hoopsguy]

Also, the "pity party" Barkeep is less fun than the aggressive Barkeep, who is less fun than the cerebral/engaged Barkeep. Just my $.02.

[Celeval]

I've been reading but not posting much yet - I, like most, don't see a very specific target for day one yet. Nor will I be stepping it up tonight. Not that I'm sure my stepping it up will help much - I would be very surprised if I was one of the better players on the team. And Parkman, despite being an ass, is a pretty good ballplayer, so if he's stepping it up tonight, I'll stay out of his way.

[hoopsguy]

Another note - I'm not looking to get people to reveal their character just yet but I am concerned that two different people have hinted at the Jake Taylor character. Now maybe I'm not reading the tea leaves correctly, as neither participant has outright claimed the role.

Has anyone else seen this? If you look back at my posted list from yesterday, you will see that I thought Celeval was claiming Jake (post #69) but today Mike Vic (post #170) said something about retirement. This was on top of him saying he was indispensible yesterday.

Looking at those two posts - I'll pull them up in a couple of minutes - do people see other players that those guys might be? I feel like I know the first movie pretty well, even if it has been years since I watched it, but there are undoubtedly others out there who know the movie better.

[hoopsguy]

*bleary-eyed* Damnit, this is starting already? Christ, I'm hung over, my knees are killin' me and if you're going to pull this shit at least you could've said you were from the Yankees.

I didn't think of using more than one step-it-up power a night, but that makes 100% sense.

Since I'm indispensable to the team, I can use mine when we most need it.

Oh, and I'm a simple villager too.

I'll have you know I'm a valuable member of this team, still able to contribute in any way I can. All that talk about retirement was nonsense.

Those are the quotes. Although I wasn't in favor of revealing roles with the bad guys knowing they had a safe haven when making a claim, I will try to analyze what people post. And these are the posts that, when taken together, had me wondering what is up with Jake Taylor.

Was there another member on the team that had bad knees who would be hung over?

Was there another member on the team that was talking about retirement?

[MikeVic]

Those are the quotes. Although I wasn't in favor of revealing roles with the bad guys knowing they had a safe haven when making a claim, I will try to analyze what people post. And these are the posts that, when taken together, had me wondering what is up with Jake Taylor.

Was there another member on the team that had bad knees who would be hung over?

Was there another member on the team that was talking about retirement?

I'm not Jake Taylor!

[KWhit]

Very interesting. I have no idea about the characters, so I can't help judge the meaning behind the two posts.

[hoopsguy]

I'm not Jake Taylor!

OK, that helps. I'll try and work out who else might have been considering retirement among the other remaining players.

Again, sorry for reading the hints, intended or inadvertant, incorrectly.

[hoopsguy]

Unclaimed - Rube Baker, Roger Dorn, Pedro Cerrano, Jake Tomlinson


I'm obviously one of these people. Jake Tomlinson is a generic dude. So that leaves two people for me to search for retirement info within the movie scripts. And I think the retirement could fit for one of them, if I'm correctly recalling what I read about ML2 yesterday ...

[Celeval]

OK, that helps. I'll try and work out who else might have been considering retirement among the other remaining players.

Again, sorry for reading the hints, intended or inadvertant, incorrectly.

FWIW, Dorn is semi-retired in the second movie, but only talks about plans for retirement during the first (and it's certainly not implied that he would be next season). Other than that, the only other serious veteran I can think of is the pitcher, but I think he's already been hinted at.

[PurdueBrad]

Pretty much. Also an unusually high ratio of posts to useful posts.

And I just don't want to vote for BK or hoops, it has the smell of villager on villager crime. I'm willing to revisit it down the road, but not on day 1.

Ouch! I'm going to have to blame my wife if I get lynched! She's out of town for a couple days and I'm bored so I've been on here spending time. But that's cool, another reason to guilt her for leaving me here with our crazy dogs.

[hoopsguy]

Yep, Dorn is the guy I had in mind.

From IMDB:
Roger Dorn retired and has replaced Rachel Phelps as the owner of the team. Catcher Jake Taylor has also retired to become one of the coaches who work for manager Lou Brown.

[MikeVic]

OK, that helps. I'll try and work out who else might have been considering retirement among the other remaining players.

Again, sorry for reading the hints, intended or inadvertant, incorrectly.

(OOC, I might be mixing Major League I and II together. I have a scene in my mind that I liked a lot (involving my character) that I thought for sure was from the first movie. I could be wrong).

[MikeVic]

(OOC, What movie had the scene where Dorn opened his trenchcoat to reveal that he wasn't retired anymore? I'm thinking that's the second movie now).

[Celeval]

Unclaimed - Rube Baker, Roger Dorn, Pedro Cerrano, Jake Tomlinson


I'm obviously one of these people. Jake Tomlinson is a generic dude. So that leaves two people for me to search for retirement info within the movie scripts. And I think the retirement could fit for one of them, if I'm correctly recalling what I read about ML2 yesterday ...

You're assuming he's not making up a background for a generic dude as well.

[Celeval]

(OOC, What movie had the scene where Dorn opened his trenchcoat to reveal that he wasn't retired anymore? I'm thinking that's the second movie now).

Second movie. First movie, Dorn plays the whole time and third movie is about a minor league team (not the Indians - the Salt Lake City Buzz?)

[Gonzo]

Does this whole name thing really matter? It sounds like its more for flavour than a serious game mechanic.

[hoopsguy]

Gonzo, only as it relates to the initial talent distribution. If it is based on Chief Rum's interpretations of their ability to step up, rather than randomly generated, then I think the names are pretty important.

If it is random.org then the names don't mean much at all and there is absolutely no harm done with the discussion of them up to this point.

[MikeVic]

I'm still not sure if the talent somehow relates to a character's role in the movie, but I just wanted to have some more fun with my character. And given my character, I don't think the talent would be very high.

[Barkeep49]

Barkeep, I'm confused why you have left your vote on me.
Haven't seen anywhere better to place it.

[DaddyTorgo]

my vote stays on cronin and I urge my fellow villagers to join me. There's just no way he checks in and says he hasn't read the thread or the rules and then 5 minutes later drops a vote on a guy who isn't a usual player. shit...100% of the time I don't even know who all is playing, let alone what the rules are 5 minutes after checking in.

something's fishy about that.

[Barkeep49]

Also, the "pity party" Barkeep is less fun than the aggressive Barkeep, who is less fun than the cerebral/engaged Barkeep. Just my $.02.
The cereberal/engaged BK doesn't come out until later in the game when there is stuff to engage.

[Barkeep49]

Gonzo, only as it relates to the initial talent distribution. If it is based on Chief Rum's interpretations of their ability to step up, rather than randomly generated, then I think the names are pretty important.

If it is random.org then the names don't mean much at all and there is absolutely no harm done with the discussion of them up to this point.
I would have to believe that position players have more abilities than someone like me who is a pinch hitter. Now whether it's random with-in those groups or not is up for debate. But if, as I believe, it's not completely random, then I am not sure I would believe it's at all random.

[Passacaglia]

So how do we resolve this debate? My suspicion is that it's random. That said, it's not like we want the scout to come in here and start telling us (and the wolves) everyone's rank. I think there's enough people on both sides of this argument that it's not going to help us spot any wolves, so maybe we should just let the scout do his thing and drop it. I think a better question is how we get meaningful info from the scout, without giving that info to the wolves.

[DaddyTorgo]

damm. That's going to be tough. that's why I think something like the listed stuff earlier or whatever might be useful.

although...bottom line is..it's about catching the wolves. Dunno if that type of stuff will really help us catch the wolves. I think if we want to do some complicated chart-thing or whatever...we need to get it setup today, not let it become too much of a distraction later on. If it keeps being a distraction past say...D2...i'm going to start looking at the people that are pushing it and keeping it in the forefront...getting the village sidetracked onto that would be a great wolf-play.

[DaddyTorgo]

dola "something like the list mentioned earlier" not "listed stuff"

[hoopsguy]

We'll get some information on who "steps up" based on the results post from Chief Rum. That should help us start getting a sense of who ranks where in terms of importance. The Scout should be able to augment that if/when he reveals info. I think his value comes in helping us catch a wolf in a lie - viewing someone as high talent who doesn't get their result to come into play when they say they step up, for example. But we should be able to start working on a rough list without his info as we get deeper in the game.

I'm clearly in favor of a structured approach to the "step it up" performances, but I don't want to cram it down people's throats. So, here are some questions I have on how to examine what I've put out there:
- is five the right number of people to have submit a "step it up" performance per night? Too many or too few?
- is there a better way of selecting who goes each night than the number listed in the "Player List"?

[Passacaglia]

I'm in favor of a structured approach as well, but I'm wondering -- what are we trying to learn from it?

[MikeVic]

That's a good point about using the scout to potentially sniff out a wolf...

As for the step-it-up... I think my math is correct:
We have 14 players, and each has three step-it-ups. 14x3=42.
We have six days to use our step-it-ups. 42/6=7.

So, if we never lose anyone (impossible), we can do seven step-it-ups a day. I think that means five is a bit too high, and I would like to use four at most instead.

[hoopsguy]

I'm in favor of a structured approach as well, but I'm wondering -- what are we trying to learn from it?

Well, we don't know what the results are going to be for the "night phase" so I'm not sure yet. However, a game is going to be played that has the potential to be influenced by players who "step it up". Not all players are equal. So we are looking to learn the relative value of the players.

Keep in mind, there are at least two people out there who have no interest in seeing us succeed. If they are going to "step it up" it will be to our detriment. They could also act by not acting - saying they will step up and not doing so.

So we are going to measure the value of the "step it up" performers based on their results. Those who are successful in helping the team move towards trusted. They also become targets for the wolves, so they probably go near the top of the list of candidates for the bodyguard to protect.

Those who do not end up providing a boost with their "step up" draw a little closer attention. They won't be moving into trust lists, and they become better targets for the Seer and the Scout.

That is how I think this should shake out. Of course, a natural conclusion I draw from this is that a set rotation of "step up" players being mapped out now probably doesn't give us our best value going forward - we should likely try to maximize our best performers before they are eliminated by the wolves. But we absolutely need to have a plan for today.

[MikeVic]

I don't know who to trust just yet, but I don't want hoopsguy gone yet either. Not sure who to vote for, but I would like if hoopsguy stayed onboard.

I'd like to hear more people's opinions about our strategy options too. It doesn't seem like enough people are voicing their opinions. I don't see a problem with having a few people use their step-it-up each day. It looks like our loud-mouth DH would like to step-it-up today.

[Barkeep49]

I think 3 or 4 per day is the right number.

[KWhit]

I like the plan to have about 4-5 step-it-uppers a night. That will at the very least give us more information to go on and more information is always a good thing for the villagers, especially early on.

[KWhit]

I like the plan to have about 4-5 step-it-uppers a night. That will at the very least give us more information to go on and more information is always a good thing for the villagers, especially early on.

That wasn't in response to you BK. Just a general statement.

[KWhit]

Well, I don't know how much time I'll have between now and lynch, so I want to get a vote out there. This is just due to low activity - just 4 posts in the thread (and one of those was saying he was in). Since we have nothing else to go on (not sold on the BK vs. Hoops thing):

VOTE NTNDEACON

[st.cronin]

I will volunteer to step it up today (tonight).

[path12]

Have the greatest player in the majors step it up tonight: Jack Parkman. Surround him with three others who aren't in my league (well, none of you are in my league, but you know what I mean).

[path12]

Dola, one of the others should be someone we think is a pretty good player so we can get a decent comparison.

[MikeVic]

I'm an excellent player, but maybe I can switch to DH.

[Passacaglia]

Why don't we just go by player number in the 3rd post?

[hoopsguy]

Why don't we just go by player number in the 3rd post?

That was my proposal to avoid having the process hijacked. I guess I would prefer to take my chances with random.org instead of having to trust people to have good intentions on Day 1. Starting with Day 2 we can make decisions based upon some results, but today we are flying blind.

[MikeVic]

Why don't we just go by player number in the 3rd post?

Because you're a no-good, wife-banging whore!

But seriously, I think there's merit in trying to put one supposed "big-name" guy to step-it-up, and then put a few lesser players. This could help us determine if players' talents are based on movie role. Parkman was very good in the movie.

However, Parkman was also pretty hairy if I remember correctly. So maybe he's a werewolf.

[Barkeep49]

I agree that we want a random distribution for step ups today, and likely tomorrow. I still think 5 is too many to give us good info though.

[Barkeep49]

Also a big hello to hahnkim who I see reading through the thread now. You should sign up for our next game.

[st.cronin]

I'm not sure I understand the random method being suggested, but if its actually random, I support it.

[hoopsguy]

Also, note that we have an earlier deadline than normal today.

Day One (Tuesday, 7 p.m. EST)

So we are just over five hours away from the time where actions need to be submitted. With that in mind, I would like to see some fairly quick agreement on the approach to take today. I haven't even looked yet at the sign-up numbers to see if I should be putting in an action yet because we have not come to a consensus on this point. I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one ...

Finally, I'll use this post to once again ask people to find someone besides me to vote off on Day 1. I would like to think that I'll be a help to the team in the days to come as an active participant who is trying to increase our understanding of the game and optimize our chances of winning. Right now I need a two vote swing, as I'm up one and also in position to lose any tie.

[DaddyTorgo]

don't let cronin step it up. Dude smells like a lycanthrope from here

[MikeVic]

I'm ok with completely random today too. Use that random.org thing.

I never thought about it in that way, but less people stepping-it-up would give us more information early on, since we could figure out relative talents between four people instead of five?

I also think we should keep hoopsguy on. I just don't know who to pile on to vote for, as no one has two votes yet other than hoopsguy.

[hoopsguy]

Player List

1. DaddyTorgo
2. Barkeep
3. KWhit
4. Passacaglia
5. Celeval
6. Lathum
7. MikeVic
8. hoopsguy
9. path12
10. Jonathan Ezarik
11. ntndeacon
12. Gonzo
13. PurdueBrad
14. st.cronin

Picking who steps up tonight based on their number in the Player List post - so if we went with four players tonight they would be 1,5,9, and 13. Or we start with 2 if there is any concern about player 1.

I would rather go with five tonight. We don't know that everyone who is supposed to submit actions will be back tonight before deadline, read that that they are supposed to act, and do it. I would also prefer to have more bullets in the gun (figuratively speaking) to see if we can avert the "wolf" getting to influence the game instead of us, if that enters into the success/failure of the mechanic.

Finally, we might want to avoid having people in the voting runoff flagged as step-up performers. I don't think they would get to influence the game if they are being removed from the team.

[st.cronin]

don't let cronin step it up. Dude smells like a lycanthrope from here

You are a) way off base, and b) not playing in the spirit of the game, imho. I can't explain the timestamps, but the posts that concern you were made approximately 1 hour apart. I'm a simple villager.

[KWhit]

don't let cronin step it up. Dude smells like a lycanthrope from here

Why are you pushing so hard for st.cronin?

[MikeVic]

You are a) way off base, and b) not playing in the spirit of the game, imho. I can't explain the timestamps, but the posts that concern you were made approximately 1 hour apart. I'm a simple villager.

Hmm, playing the ol' timestamp bug eh? I smell something trout-y.

[MikeVic]

Picking who steps up tonight based on their number in the Player List post - so if we went with four players tonight they would be 1,5,9, and 13. Or we start with 2 if there is any concern about player 1.

I would rather go with five tonight. We don't know that everyone who is supposed to submit actions will be back tonight before deadline, read that that they are supposed to act, and do it. I would also prefer to have more bullets in the gun (figuratively speaking) to see if we can avert the "wolf" getting to influence the game instead of us, if that enters into the success/failure of the mechanic.

Finally, we might want to avoid having people in the voting runoff flagged as step-up performers. I don't think they would get to influence the game if they are being removed from the team.


I think we should make it completely random. Why are we picking 1,5,9, and 13?

[hoopsguy]

I never thought about it in that way, but less people stepping-it-up would give us more information early on, since we could figure out relative talents between four people instead of five?

I think you are correct about less people stepping up, but it also gives the wolves a better chance to win the process - either through villagers not getting their actions in or not having enough clout.

Second, we are voting off one person per day and there are almost certainly going to be "night kills" for the wolves, given that this is werewolf and that we have a bodyguard role. So there are going to be people moving on that will never get to use their three step-ups. I would rather use them early than see people dying that could have used a step-up but were saving it. That is where the math earlier on # of players * 3 = total step-ups was off-base.

With what I know right now - that the wolves can win a victory if we fall too far behind the Yankees - I want to see us push hard to get the win as a priority with the night actions. We'll still get info whether it is 3, 4, 5, or 6 players but the higher number of players allows us the best chance at a victory on a given day.

[st.cronin]

Being that I'm no special role, I encourage people to vote for me if they want another candidate besides hoopsguy. Barring any other information, its my own opinion that day 1 the best move by the village is to remove somebody who doesn't contribute much. In that respect, I think we can do much better than hoops and myself.

[Passacaglia]

I'm all for random.org, but -- who do we trust to be the randomizer?

[DaddyTorgo]

not playing in the spirit of the game cronin? wtf is that supposed to mean?

[hoopsguy]

I think we should make it completely random. Why are we picking 1,5,9, and 13?

Who decides what is "completely random"? Someone has to input numbers at random.org - do you want a wolf doing that?

As far as 1,5,9, 13 that was based on (# of players)/(# of step-ups) and then rounding up to the nearest integer and adding that to #1. However, I would be fine with any other system that people feel grants more randomness. Start with #3, so the numbers are 2,6,10, and 14 today. Decide to use the first four prime numbers - whatever works, as long as there is reason to believe it is a truly random system for today.

[st.cronin]

not playing in the spirit of the game cronin? wtf is that supposed to mean?

Using "time of post" as a reason to vote.

[DaddyTorgo]

I'm all for random.org, but -- who do we trust to be the randomizer?

have 2 people do it at the same time and average their results, rounding down? stipulate that the results must be posted at a specific time (or within 1 minute) to avoid mathematical trickery

[hoopsguy]

Er, start with #2 in the above post for 2,6,10, and 14. I initially said 3, then realized that we only had 14 players so dropped back to 2. Sorry for the confusion - would edit the post if it was allowed.

[hoopsguy]

have 2 people do it at the same time and average their results, rounding down? stipulate that the results must be posted at a specific time (or within 1 minute) to avoid mathematical trickery

My gut says that this method increases the likelihood of players in the middle of the list being selected relative to the highs/lows.

[DaddyTorgo]

Using "time of post" as a reason to vote.

that's perfectly valid in my opinion.

what I smell here is a WW with someone clinging to a vote they wanted to be a throwaway who is frantic to get that person off

[path12]

However, Parkman was also pretty hairy if I remember correctly. So maybe he's a werewolf.


That's uncommonly high virility, my friend. Jack Parkman is extraordinary in every way. A man amongst boys, you might say. I certainly would.

I'm in favor of the numbers hoops posted, because it includes me.

[DaddyTorgo]

in hindsight...prolly doesn't matter if a wolf does it. They might keep it off their fellow wolves, but they won't have any better idea at this point who is talented in what way. We need to think about this anyways though for later in the game.

still not convinced that this really...matters that much. As i've said...come D2 I really hope we are focused on something other than this.

[st.cronin]

that's perfectly valid in my opinion.

what I smell here is a WW with someone clinging to a vote they wanted to be a throwaway who is frantic to get that person off

Who am I trying to get off, now?

[st.cronin]

hoops, why not simply do it like a reverse vote?

Everybody puts out a list of who they want to step up today. The player with the least amount of votes, we follow that list.

My list:

st.cronin
hoopsguy
KWhit
Barkeep49

I say we stick with 4 for now.

[DaddyTorgo]

Who am I trying to get off, now?

LOL

no hard feelings hmm man? I'm just calling em like I see em, and something about you has set off my internal "wolf-detector" in a way that only Izulde did in one of my first games way back when.

maybe i'm wrong. Maybe i'm right. But it's a D1 vote, and I'm just your average Ivan, so why not push it.

[hoopsguy]

Cronin, I'm fine with that approach if we get enough people to do it - I don't like it if we have less than half of the people participating. We also need to allow enough time for people to see that they are step-up performers and act accordingly via PM.

I suggest that we put a hard deadline on discussion and make a decision by 5PM EST. That gives two hours for people to act on the information.

[DaddyTorgo]

hoops, why not simply do it like a reverse vote?

Everybody puts out a list of who they want to step up today. The player with the least amount of votes, we follow that list.

My list:

st.cronin
hoopsguy
KWhit
Barkeep49

I say we stick with 4 for now.

takes too much time, and we're < 5 hours to deadline now.

plus it's susceptible to manipuation too.

howled at any moons lately cronin?

[st.cronin]

dola, for tiebreak go with whoever posted their list first.

[Passacaglia]

Wasn't a whine, was more relief.

Not sure what people find confusing about it at this point, as I thought I'd responded to anything specific. If you want to state what you find confusing I can respond to it.

I know we've got a lot going on now, but I want to get back to this point, which I didn't get to reply to this morning. First off, sorry I accused you of whining! Secondly, while I didn't follow a lot of what you said earlier yesterday, the thing that really makes me scratch my head is where you talk about hoops gunning for you, when all he had done was talk about the rules, and you had already put a vote on him, leading a mini-bandwagon (maybe lathum's vote would have come out for hoops either way, but the point remains that hoops is in the lead now). Can you explain what you meant by that?

[st.cronin]

Cronin, I'm fine with that approach if we get enough people to do it - I don't like it if we have less than half of the people participating. We also need to allow enough time for people to see that they are step-up performers and act accordingly via PM.

I suggest that we put a hard deadline on discussion and make a decision by 5PM EST. That gives two hours for people to act on the information.

I think we can make it happen, just go ahead and post yours now, and the bandwagon will start.