October Console Sales Numbers...........

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

I'm getting the hell out of this one!!!

LOL. Pumpy, you're shying away from something? Pray tell why? :)

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Did you have someone read them to you recently or something?

Yeah, but it was an Arkansas graduate reading it (which took FOREVER), so I just grabbed them and read them myself.

[Bee]

The holiday sales boost has started in Japan. PS3 and Wii sales both actually increased this week with the PS3 outselling the Wii for a 3rd straight week. 360 sales dropped and is now being outsold by the PS3 at a 10:1 ratio.

The following numbers are from Famitsu for the week of 11/17.........

DS : 116K
PSP : 89K
PS3 : 58K
Wii : 47K
PS2 : 15K
360 : 5.8K

What's up with your fascination with Japan anyway...

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

What's up with your fascination with Japan anyway...

I post numbers from all three regions. Not sure why that makes a fascination over Japan because I posted those numbers today. It's certainly relevant to the discussion.

[Bee]

Last couple weeks the only thing I see you posting are the Japan numbers. Seems like it's more important to you than say the US numbers, just curious why.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Last couple weeks the only thing I see you posting are the Japan numbers. Seems like it's more important to you than say the US numbers, just curious why.

Nope, no more important. The only problem with the US and PAL territories is that they only have VGChartz.com as an estimate of sales. I posted those numbers for the month of October showing that the 360 sold over 600K units in North America, only to later find out through the NPD numbers that those sales numbers for the 360 were overestimated by 250K units. They haven't usually been that far off, so I'm not sure if those numbers should be posted as being accurate numbers for that reason. Without those numbers, NPD is the only other source which only comes out once a month.

Japan has Media Create and Famitsu weekly numbers for both software and hardware sales. They are generally much more accurate than anything that North America or PAL territories have. I'll post those numbers without concern because they generally are very accurate.

[Pumpy Tudors]

What exactly is the discussion here, anyway?

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

What exactly is the discussion here, anyway?

Primarily console sales numbers with discussion on new games that could affect those sales.

[wade moore]

Primarily a pissing match over which console is better and will sell better.

Fixed.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Fixed.

Certainly another way to put it. :)

I think there's been a lot of good info passed on about releases and upcoming games in this thread along with the sales numbers. I certainly don't think that's a bad thing.

[wade moore]

Certainly another way to put it. :)

I think there's been a lot of good info passed on about releases and upcoming games in this thread along with the sales numbers. I certainly don't think that's a bad thing.
Agreed. There is good info mixed in, but the core purpose of the thread is certainly a pissing match.

Don't get me wrong, as far as internet message boards go they're mild pissing matches, but pissing matches nonetheless.

[Kodos]

My piss is yellower than yours!

[DeToxRox]

My piss is yellower than yours!

Drink some water

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Drink some water

This deserves a thread on its own.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Interesting interview with the developer of Burnout Paradise. He's evidently pretty happy with how easily the PS3-developed game is porting over to the Xbox 360. Says that the development on the PS3 may actually result in a better Xbox 360 game.

http://xboxer.tv/2007/11/ps3_dev_makes_for_better_360_g.html

I sat down yesterday with Nick Channon, the thoroughly nice man behind the surprisingly enticing Burnout Paradise. I played the game, and it felt pretty **** fun, but of most interest were Channon's comments on choosing the PS3 as the lead development platform. I asked him to elaborate on his claim that "development on the PS3 has made for a better 360 game".

Specifically, I asked him if he felt developing the other way, from 360 to PS3 might not make for such great titles. His answer? "I think you’ve seen that maybe. That the transition has meant people aren’t always as able to deliver to the same standard, but we certainly have".

So, Burnout Paradise hasn't suffered, but maybe, just maybe others have. He continues: "From our point of view, we’ve had no issues with dealing with either machine; that’s what I mean by that. It seems that some games haven’t always transitioned between the two well. From our perspective leading on Playstation3 has meant Xbox 360 has given us a great product."

It's a hard one to call. If he's right we get the better games and have PS3 to thank. If he's wrong, then we have nothing to lose. In the end, it's his opinion based on his experience, and he's entitled to that. If my time with Burnout Paradise is anything to go, then he's very experienced indeed, as it's a truly impressive title at this preview stage.

[Pumpy Tudors]

To completely send this thread in another direction (at least temporarily), does anyone want to get on Xbox Live and play some Test Drive Unlimited tonight? I bought that game months ago and only played it once.

[spleen1015]

To completely send this thread in another direction (at least temporarily), does anyone want to get on Xbox Live and play some Test Drive Unlimited tonight? I bought that game months ago and only played it once.

No.

[SackAttack]

To completely send this thread in another direction (at least temporarily), does anyone want to get on Xbox Live and play some Test Drive Unlimited tonight? I bought that game months ago and only played it once.

I'm game, Pumpy. What time does "tonight" constitute?

[Pumpy Tudors]

I'm game, Pumpy. What time does "tonight" constitute?
Hmm. That's a good question. I'm east coast, you're west coast, and I'm busy from 9pm to 11pm EST. Before 9pm my time is probably too early for you, huh?

[Pumpy Tudors]

No.
Dude, did I kick your Cabbage Patch Doll back in college or something?

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Dude, did I kick your Cabbage Patch Doll back in college or something?

No, but he's still pissed that you stole his ultra-rare Garbage Pail Kid card.

[Pumpy Tudors]

No, but he's still pissed that you stole his ultra-rare Garbage Pail Kid card.
The spleen1015 card is going for big bucks on eBay these days, that's for sure.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Release dates set for two new Sega games. The Club has been scheduled for release on Feb. 8th. Condemned 2 is scheduled for a release in February.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Who knew that Blue Dragon, Naruto, Viva Pinata: Party Animals, Ace Combat 6, and Scene It were all 'genre-defining games'? :)

Xbox 360 Boasts Greatest Release Schedule Ever

2007 offers Xbox 360 owners the greatest range of games yet

LONDON — 29th November, 2007 — 2007 will be a year to remember for Xbox 360™ players – a packed release schedule offers a wide range of incredible titles including exclusive, genre-defining games such as Blue Dragon™ (Microsoft Game Studios - MGS), Project Gotham Racing® 4 (MGS), Naruto™ Rise of a Ninja (Ubisoft), Viva Piñata®: Party Animals (MGS), Ace Combat® 6: Fires of Liberation™ (Namco Bandai Games) and Scene It?® Lights, Camera, Action (MGS), not to mention some of the highest scoring games of all time in the form of BioShock (2K Games), Mass Effect (MGS), The Orange Box (EA) and the legendary Halo® 3 (MGS), all of which have already been released or are set to arrive before the end of the year.

From the end of summer to the festive period, Xbox 360 boasts over 60 new releases contributing to a portfolio of over 300 high-definition titles.

Two of the most epic adventures of the year arrived in August in Blue Dragon and BioShock. Role-playing game Blue Dragon casts players as Shu, a young boy, who with a party of four must battle the evil that has invaded their world, controlling phantom shadow creatures ranging from Minotaur, to phoenix and of course, dragon.

BioShock is a “genetically-enhanced” first person shooter that lets players do things never before possible in the genre, in the unique art deco world of Rapture, an underwater utopia torn apart by civil war.

September and October were the hottest months since records began seeing the release of the epic Halo 3 and the turbocharged Project Gotham Racing 4.

Halo 3, the third and final chapter in the “Halo trilogy” smashed day-one entertainment sales records when it launched in September with players finally getting the chance to take Master Chief™ into his most crucial battle yet.

October saw Project Gotham Racing 4 return with another garage-full of the world’s most iconic cars. A brand new dynamic weather system makes for an even more exhilarating experience.

Football fans are enjoying a season of highlights on Xbox 360 with the release of FIFA 08 at the end of September and Pro Evolution Soccer 2008 at the end of October.

FIFA 08 brings you closer to the action than ever before with new Pro Skills moves that increase user-control by enabling you to combine tricks and skill moves together to recreate signature moves from the real-world superstars, the new Be A Pro: Offline Training mode, and even greater depths of authenticity, while Konami’s latest edition to the multi-million-selling Pro Evolution Soccer series returns as PES 2008, boasting a proprietary AI system, all new moves and set pieces - and even more realism than ever. PES 2008’s rosters of licensed players enjoy a wide range of flicks, nutmegs, and set-pieces, while the less savoury elements of the game appear in the form of shirt-pulling, ugly fouls and diving.

November offers something for everyone. Mass Effect, the science-fiction action-role playing game offers a whole galaxy full of difficult decisions to make as players lead an elite team to bring down a rogue agent.

Sociable fun is also on the cards - both Viva Piñata: Party Animals and Scene It? Lights, Camera, Action offer their own unique blend of party play – Viva Piñata: Party Animals putting the colourful piñatas into a succession of addictive mini games and Scene It? offering a host of movie-related trivia to answer.

Naruto Rise of a Ninja kick flips into November featuring the perfect blend of adventure, platforming and fighting and enables fans of the show to challenge fellow gamers on Xbox LIVE®.

Finally, top guns will fulfil their aviation dreams in Ace Combat 6: Fires of Liberation, thrusting players into the heat of realistic air combat.

The review scores garnered by many of these titles have been astounding, confirming the excellence of the Xbox 360 line up. Halo 3’s score of 94 at Metacritic and 93 at Gamerankings makes it the perfect conclusion to the Halo trilogy, arriving just weeks after BioShock which wowed critics, scoring 96 and 95 at Metacritic and Gamerankings respectively.

Just when review scores looked like they couldn’t get any higher The Orange Box arrived - five innovative games from Valve®, creators of the blockbuster Half-Life franchise, in one action-packed box - scoring an astonishing 96 point average at both Metacritic and Gamerankings. Finally, Mass Effect is the most recent Xbox 360 release to garner 90+ review averages claiming 93 at both sites and rounding off simply the greatest portfolio of video games ever seen. *

These unprecedented scores demonstrate exactly why Xbox 360 continues to hold the record for highest games attach rate across the globe, at 6.3 games sold per console. With life-to-date sales of 13.4 million consoles worldwide this represents incredible software sales.

BioShock, Blue Dragon, Project Gotham Racing 4, Naruto Rise of a Ninja, Viva Piñata: Party Animals, Mass Effect, Scene It? Lights, Camera, Action, FIFA 08, PES 2008, Ace Combat 6: Fires of Liberation, The Orange Box and Halo 3 spearhead the unparalleled selection of Xbox 360 titles that players will be able to enjoy this year.

“This year’s line up of titles on Xbox 360 is without doubt the strongest I have seen, offering incredible Microsoft-published titles such as Blue Dragon, PGR 4, Viva Piñata Party Animals, Mass Effect, Scene It? Lights, Camera, Action and Halo 3, and incredible exclusives from our partners such as BioShock, Naruto Rise of a Ninja and Ace Combat 6. It’s an amazing year for Xbox 360 players,” said Michael Newey, Group Product Marketing Manager, Microsoft.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Haze developers confirm that Haze and Timesplitters 4 will be PS3 exclusive. 360 and PC development have been dropped.

http://www.n4g.com/ps3/News-88891.aspx

PSU talks with Free Radical - Haze and Timesplitters 4
Published: 6 hours ago | Interview | PlayStation 3 Info Report


PSU talks with Free Radical's Rob Yescombe and Derek Littlewood.

PSU: What was the reason behind dropping development on the Xbox 360 and PC?

Derek Littlewood: From a development point of view, exclusive development is attractive because you can really focus on getting the best out of just one platform, rather than always needing to split your efforts across multiple versions of the game. And this is why exclusive PS3 development has been so useful to us, as the entire team has been able to work very closely with the PS3 hardware.

As for why the PS3 was our platform of choice, the company has a history of getting good results out of PlayStation hardware from our days working on the PS2, but also, out of the three platforms, the PS3 is still the youngest and so represented the best opportunity for us to get a game out into an uncrowded market where it was likely to get the best recognition.

[Pumpy Tudors]

lol they're putting the games out for ps3 because there's no competition

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

lol they're putting the games out for ps3 because there's no competition

Is this a surprise? The 360 is filled with shooters. The PS3 only has a couple out for it currently. I'm not sure why this is a laughable strategy. Gears of War was similar in that they came out as one of the first original shooters a year into the 360's life cycle hoping to become a franchise on a new console before it was flooded with too much competition. It was highly successful, both as a game and as a strategy.

[Pumpy Tudors]

Is this a surprise? The 360 is filled with shooters. The PS3 only has a couple out for it currently. I'm not sure why this is a laughable strategy. Gears of War was similar in that they came out as one of the first original shooters a year into the 360's life cycle hoping to become a franchise on a new console before it was flooded with too much competition. It was highly successful, both as a game and as a strategy.
My jokes fall flat a lot. I think I probably should have typed it as follows (still not being serious):

HAHAHA NOBODY MAKES GAMES FOR THE PS3 AND THESE GUYS FIGURE THAT THEY CAN JUST MAKE ANY OLD SHIT AND PUT IT ON PS3 AND PEOPLE HAVE TO BUY IT BECAUSE THERE AREN'T ANY OTHER GAMES OUT THERE HAHAHA

HA

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

My jokes fall flat a lot. I think I probably should have typed it as follows (still not being serious):

HAHAHA NOBODY MAKES GAMES FOR THE PS3 AND THESE GUYS FIGURE THAT THEY CAN JUST MAKE ANY OLD SHIT AND PUT IT ON PS3 AND PEOPLE HAVE TO BUY IT BECAUSE THERE AREN'T ANY OTHER GAMES OUT THERE HAHAHA

HA

Naw, it didn't fall flat. I just decided that discussion was a better option than "HAHA, PUMPY SUX CUZ HE'S A VIDEO GAME DUM-DUM AND LIKES 12 YEAR OLD BOYZ!!!!"

;)

[Pumpy Tudors]

Naw, it didn't fall flat. I just decided that discussion was a better option than "HAHA, PUMPY SUX CUZ HE'S A VIDEO GAME DUM-DUM AND LIKES 12 YEAR OLD BOYZ!!!!"

;)
But I like being a dum-dum!

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Xbox 360 sales numbers for Black Friday at the bottom of this article.......

http://www.cnbc.com/id/22025587

More than 310,000 Xbox 360 consoles sold in the U.S. for the week of Nov. 18, including Black Friday, rounding out its third holiday season on the market. While Xbox 360 consoles continue to generate great consumer demand, the strength of the Xbox 360 ecosystem remains unmatched by any console on the market.

[Kang]

The Timesplitters series is one of my favorites. Used to have a blast playing with my roommate and our girlfriends.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Used to have a blast playing with my roommate and our girlfriends.

pics plz k thx

[Bee]

Holy crap a Kang sighting!

[Kang]

pics plz k thx


Your Earth humor is so very primitive. On the other hand, you folks are quite tasty.

[sterlingice]

The Timesplitters series is one of my favorites. Used to have a blast playing with my roommate and our girlfriends.

Always seems to be a slightly underdeveloped game series (some stuff just always lacks polish) but good to play and a great sense of fun.

SI

[sterlingice]

Holy crap a Kang sighting!

I wonder if it's Kodos and he's going to try to get to 10000 with "Kang" now ;)

SI

[SackAttack]

Hmm. That's a good question. I'm east coast, you're west coast, and I'm busy from 9pm to 11pm EST. Before 9pm my time is probably too early for you, huh?

Yeah, it was.

I'm free all day Sunday, though. Just let me know.

[Big Fo]

Well, there's no reason to ever go to gamespot.com again for reviews or anything really. It looks like long-time reviewer Jeff Gerstmann has been fired for his 6.0 review of Kane and Lynch after Eidos (the publisher) complained to CNET (which owns gamespot). Pathetic.

http://blog.wired.com/games/

http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic

Gerstmann's video review of the game on Youtube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5FuJ81sDR2o)

[wade moore]

If this is true I will never, ever go to the gamespot site again.

[Kang]

I wonder if it's Kodos and he's going to try to get to 10000 with "Kang" now ;)

SI


I wonder about that too.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Interesting little numbers spat between MS and Sony. MS claimed a 2:1 margin over the PS3 over the weekend sales, but Sony has uncharacteristicly released a mid-month statement about the numbers, saying that the MS numbers for the PS3 were "way off". It'll be interesting to see who ends up being more correct when the NPD numbers come out for November.

http://blog.seattlepi.nwsource.com/microsoft/archives/126846.asp

[MikeVic]

Something I've noticed today that is good for Sony... in the flyers we received today, they're listing the PS3 and 360 at the same price. To the casual gamer, he only difference is that the 360 comes with one extra game. Other than that, all it says about either package is that the PS3 is a 40GB version. It doesn't say what kind of 360 it is. So if I'm a parent, two equally priced consoles is much harder to choose from than one priced at $100 more. Up until now (or maybe a week or two ago, I don't know, but I've just noticed today), the PS3 was always shown at $100 more.

[wade moore]

We want to by a Wii for my in-laws. So I went to Target and Gamestop to find out when they get trucks to try and get one.

Apparently the Gamestop has the UPS guy come around 11:30-12:00. Yesterday they got 3 in with 8 guys waiting for one. Apparently there was an "incident".

Sweet.

[stevew]

We want to by a Wii for my in-laws. So I went to Target and Gamestop to find out when they get trucks to try and get one.

Apparently the Gamestop has the UPS guy come around 11:30-12:00. Yesterday they got 3 in with 8 guys waiting for one. Apparently there was an "incident".

Sweet.

Supposedly Bestbuy, this sunday. I'd guess if i were you, i'd go to the one out in Greenbriar, although that's a helluva drive. But it keeps you out of Bad Newz too.

[wade moore]

Supposedly Bestbuy, this sunday. I'd guess if i were you, i'd go to the one out in Greenbriar, although that's a helluva drive. But it keeps you out of Bad Newz too.
Greenbriar? UGH ;)

They're building one in Williamsburg, but unfortunately it won't be up until after Christmas.

Thanks for the tip, I may go ahead and brave Newport News though, Greenbriar is just a hell of a trek.

[albionmoonlight]

Greenbriar? UGH ;)

They're building one in Williamsburg, but unfortunately it won't be up until after Christmas.

Thanks for the tip, I may go ahead and brave Newport News though, Greenbriar is just a hell of a trek.

How many of you are there? Perhaps you could hit different stores and stay in touch with your cell phones to make sure that you don't buy more than one.

(And even if you do buy more than one accidently, it isn't like you would have trouble unloading the extra one).

[stevew]

Greenbriar? UGH ;)

They're building one in Williamsburg, but unfortunately it won't be up until after Christmas.

Thanks for the tip, I may go ahead and brave Newport News though, Greenbriar is just a hell of a trek.

Godspeed then. Make sure you invest in kevlar. And yeah, the idea to hit multiple locations sounds like a good one.

[wade moore]

How many of you are there? Perhaps you could hit different stores and stay in touch with your cell phones to make sure that you don't buy more than one.

(And even if you do buy more than one accidently, it isn't like you would have trouble unloading the extra one).

Godspeed then. Make sure you invest in kevlar. And yeah, the idea to hit multiple locations sounds like a good one.

This all comes down to "how badly do I want it"...

We think it's a clever idea for my in-laws that could fall falt on it's face and they may look at us like we're crazy. So i'm not going to absolutely kill myself to get it, so yeah.. The local target gets stuff in overnight and I can call at 8:00 and see if they have any.. *shurg*

[Calis]

Supposedly Bestbuy, this sunday. I'd guess if i were you, i'd go to the one out in Greenbriar, although that's a helluva drive. But it keeps you out of Bad Newz too.

I've been hearing rumors that Best Buy is having stores hold them until December 17th, so they can really push people to get there that last weekend before Christmas. No idea if it's true but it's been talked about on several different sites.

I'm curious myself because my Mom is trying to hunt down a Wii for my brother for Christmas and we're having a helluva time trying to catch one.

I don't understand why it should still be this difficult to get one.

Edit: Nevermind, I need to learn to look at years not just dates when people send me links. :) It was for last year, so maybe Best Buy will have some ready Sunday.

[Atocep]

Well, there's no reason to ever go to gamespot.com again for reviews or anything really. It looks like long-time reviewer Jeff Gerstmann has been fired for his 6.0 review of Kane and Lynch after Eidos (the publisher) complained to CNET (which owns gamespot). Pathetic.

http://blog.wired.com/games/

http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic

Gerstmann's video review of the game on Youtube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5FuJ81sDR2o)

I think the Gamespot community made a statement. About 40 pages of 1.0 user review scores which drove the overall score down to 2.6.

http://www.gamespot.com/xbox360/action/kanelynchdeadmen/players.html?tag=hotslot;yousay

[wade moore]

I think the Gamespot community made a statement. About 40 pages of 1.0 user review scores which drove the overall score down to 2.6.

http://www.gamespot.com/xbox360/action/kanelynchdeadmen/players.html?tag=hotslot;yousay

That's awesome. The Interwebs rule.

[sterlingice]

I just don't see that review as very bad. Oh well, I've always liked IGN more than Gamespot anyways. They actually seem to like video games rather than grading things on hype even if there is a lot of grade inflation.

SI

[dervack]

Some Toys R Us have been selling the Wii on Sunday mornings, so if you want one, that might be a good spot for you as well.

[Eaglesfan27]

Big news in the video game world as Activision and Vivendi have negotiated a merger that would make them the biggest 3rd party publisher out there, ahead of EA.

http://www.gamespot.com/news/6183557.html?om_act=convert&om_clk=newstop&tag=newstop;title;2

[rjolley]

Isn't Take2 under the Vivendi umbrella?

Hmmm, looks like they aren't, but Sierra Games is. Anyone know anyone high up at Activision to talk them into starting up FBPro again? :)

[spleen1015]

As long as they don't fuck with Blizzard, everything will be okay.

[dawgfan]

Wow...that's huge news.

[Calis]

It will also give Activision's Guitar Hero franchise direct access to the library of Vivendi's Universal Music Group, the world's largest record label.

That news excites me the most out of this.

[SackAttack]

Where that might be even more impactful is if it locks Rock Band *out* of the UMG.

I can't imagine Vivendi would do that, revenue is revenue, but that would sure be a huge trump card for Guitar Hero.

[Calis]

Where that might be even more impactful is if it locks Rock Band *out* of the UMG.

I can't imagine Vivendi would do that, revenue is revenue, but that would sure be a huge trump card for Guitar Hero.

Oh yeah, complete brain dump there. I was assuming Rock Band was under that as well. I completely forgot that it was EA.

I take back some of my excitement.

[RainMaker]

I think the Gamespot community made a statement. About 40 pages of 1.0 user review scores which drove the overall score down to 2.6.

http://www.gamespot.com/xbox360/action/kanelynchdeadmen/players.html?tag=hotslot;yousay

That's pretty fucking hilarious.

Kane and Lynch came out 2 months early and it really shows. I think if they took their time with it, it would have been a real fun game. The storyline is actually interesting but the gameplay is unpolished and the AI blows. The ending also is the worst ending I've ever seen in a video game.

They probably made good money on it pushing it for the Christmas rush. But I think if they had waited till early next year, this could have been a good game. Otherwise I'd say to just wait till it's in the bargain bin in a year.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

More sales numbers from last week as the holiday season kicks into gear.

Japan sales numbers for week starting November 25th:

Wii : 71K
PS3 : 41K
PS2 : 15K
360 : 5.2K

The Wii finally got back on track in Japan with the release of Wii Fit. The Wii numbers were boosted by about 30K units with the Wii Fit release. Interestingly enough, that's a bigger unit sales jump than the one created by the release of Super Mario Galaxy. The PS3 continues to sell above 40K units for the 4th straight week (well above the weekly average of 15K units/week before the price drop). The PS3 won the November sales battle in Japan despite falling behind the Wii in the weekly numbers last week. The PS2 and 360 had no change in sales numbers over previous weeks.

European sales numbers for week starting November 25th:

Wii : 244K
PS2 : 168K
PS3 : 159K
360 : 105K

The Wii continues to lead the pack in Europe. It appears that the Wii will sell around 900-950K units for November. The PS2 continues to sell extremely well in Europe people gobble up the cheap console. The PS3 sold slightly less than the PS2 this week, but did outsell the 360 by roughly 50%.

[MJ4H]

Japan has never been big on Mario games, oddly.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Wal-Mart will be having a 2 day special (December 7th and 8th) on the PS3. Wal-Mart is offering a free $50 gift card with the purchase of a 40 GB PS3. The 5 free BR movie deal also applies. An effective price of $350 seems like a pretty good deal.

[SackAttack]

Japan has never been big on Mario games, oddly.

Yeah. Mario was always a much bigger icon over here than there. Heck, in an abstract way, Mario was what saved Nintendo over here and ultimately made them into an industry giant. I mean, yeah, technically, it was Donkey Kong, but that was Mario's first appearance, and his subsequent games were bigger than anything Donkey Kong has since done.

[Kang]

Wal-Mart will be having a 2 day special (December 7th and 8th) on the PS3. Wal-Mart is offering a free $50 gift card with the purchase of a 40 GB PS3. The 5 free BR movie deal also applies. An effective price of $350 seems like a pretty good deal.

Wish they'd apply that to the 60 GB model.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Wish they'd apply that to the 60 GB model.

They're becoming really hard to find anymore. Pretty sure Wal-Mart doesn't have enough in stock to do that nationwide. They'd have some 'bait and switch' issues if they did that sale because they have to guarantee a certain number in stock at each store by law.

[SackAttack]

We're effectively sold out of the 60 GB at work. We've had a few units keep peeking their heads up, but we were, for all intent and purposes, sold out as of Black Friday.

I'd imagine the free controller + Heavenly Sword/Lair we had running for a couple weeks up to that had a lot to do with it.

[Kang]

Bastards!

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

We're effectively sold out of the 60 GB at work. We've had a few units keep peeking their heads up, but we were, for all intent and purposes, sold out as of Black Friday.

I'd imagine the free controller + Heavenly Sword/Lair we had running for a couple weeks up to that had a lot to do with it.

Probably the best place to get a 60 GB machine is used at a place like Gamestop. You'd have to do some hunting, but I'm sure some are around. For that matter, you can pick up used 20 GB machines for relatively cheap and just upgrade the HDD if you want more room. Those machines also have full BC.

[rjolley]

Speaking of upgrading HDs in consoles, can you upgrade the HDs in the 360s?

[dawgfan]

Speaking of upgrading HDs in consoles, can you upgrade the HDs in the 360s?
The 360 hard drives are removable, so yes - you could buy a larger/different hard drive if you wanted (or add one to a core unit if you have that).

[SackAttack]

Worth pointing out that while dawgfan is correct in that you can upgrade the HDD, you cannot use just any old HDD. It's gotta be one of the proprietary 360 hard drives.

Little different from the way the PS3 is designed.

[Big Fo]

More sales numbers from last week as the holiday season kicks into gear.

Japan sales numbers for week starting November 25th:

Wii : 71K
PS3 : 41K
PS2 : 15K
360 : 5.2K

The Wii finally got back on track in Japan with the release of Wii Fit. The Wii numbers were boosted by about 30K units with the Wii Fit release. Interestingly enough, that's a bigger unit sales jump than the one created by the release of Super Mario Galaxy. The PS3 continues to sell above 40K units for the 4th straight week (well above the weekly average of 15K units/week before the price drop). The PS3 won the November sales battle in Japan despite falling behind the Wii in the weekly numbers last week. The PS2 and 360 had no change in sales numbers over previous weeks.


Wii Fit sold an impressive 254k out of a shipment rumored to be around 300k. The few impressions I've read from people living in Japan are positive, the game sounds like it's actually pretty fun. Initially I was going to hope for an eventual 1080 Snowboarding or Super Punch-Out game (or some kind of more traditional game) utilizing the balance board before picking it up, but now I think I'll be too curious to not buy it when it comes out in the US.

Super Mario Galaxy had it's third straight week in the 35-40k range, it could be a sign that it could have New Super Mario Bros. or Mario Kart DS type legs.

[rjolley]

Worth pointing out that while dawgfan is correct in that you can upgrade the HDD, you cannot use just any old HDD. It's gotta be one of the proprietary 360 hard drives.

Little different from the way the PS3 is designed.Yeah, that's what I thought. You can't just buy a 120G HD and put it in a 360 for $100, you have to buy the drive from Microsoft.

Bummer.

[dawgfan]

Yeah, that's what I thought. You can't just buy a 120G HD and put it in a 360 for $100, you have to buy the drive from Microsoft.

Bummer.
Yeah, sorry - I assumed you meant a 360 hard drive.

[rjolley]

Microsoft cuts the price of the HD-DVD player by 30% to $129.

edit: http://www.engadget.com/2007/12/04/xbox-360-hd-dvd-player-stoops-to-129/

[stevew]

Hmmm, I guess I should probably buy one now. That's too low to pass up.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Microsoft cuts the price of the HD-DVD player by 30% to $129.

edit: http://www.engadget.com/2007/12/04/xbox-360-hd-dvd-player-stoops-to-129/

They almost had to do that. Wal-Mart really screwed up that HD-DVD player market with their $99 clearance of the old model. As a result, any player over $99 since then has simply been gathering dust on retail shelves as consumers now have a new price that they feel comfortable spending for a HD-DVD player.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Looks like the replacement 360's that Microsoft is shipping out could be just as prone to the RROD as the old consoles. One of the guys over at Loot Ninja just had another console fail after only a month. This is now his 8th Xbox 360 to get the RROD since release.

http://loot-ninja.com/2007/12/05/fall-dashboard-update-kills-my-8th-xbox-360-yes-8th/

The 4 writers over at Loot Ninja have now had 16 Xbox 360's lost to RROD failures since release.

In related news, reports are leaking out that Microsoft may be increasing the repair time on Xbox 360's to try to avoid revising upward the estimated cost for RROD failure replacements. Replacement times are between 4-6 weeks, when they only took 2 weeks as little as 6 months ago.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Sony has reinstituted the Sony Style PS3 deal. Sign up for a Sony Style credit card (can be cancelled immediately afterwards) and get $100 off a PS3. So you can pick up a 40 GB machine for $299 or a 80 GB machine for $399.

[Bee]

Let's revisit what David Reeves, president of SCEE had this to say 5 or 6 months ago:

“PlayStation 3, you will see, will be far and away the winner when you look at it by March ‘08. They really, really will,” he predicted. It’s something that is going to be a slow burner, and suddenly it’s like a tsunami; it will just overtake you.”

Did I miss the tsunami? Really, realy did I? :D

[Pumpy Tudors]

In related news, reports are leaking out that Microsoft may be increasing the repair time on Xbox 360's to try to avoid revising upward the estimated cost for RROD failure replacements. Replacement times are between 4-6 weeks, when they only took 2 weeks as little as 6 months ago.
From what I've read, the replacement times were only 2 weeks for a handful of customers. Mine took about 4 weeks, and that seems to be the standard time right now. I hope I don't have to go through that whole replacement process again. It sucked. :(

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Let's revisit what David Reeves, president of SCEE had this to say 5 or 6 months ago:

Did I miss the tsunami? Really, realy did I? :D

Is he really that wrong? Note that he is the president of SCEE, which is the Sony Corp. division in Europe. The PS3 is currently outselling the Xbox 360 by roughly 50,000 units a week in Europe. Granted, we'll have to see whether they can keep the momentum going in PAL territories. Perhaps the 'tsunami' comparison was a bit dramatic, but given the good sales of the PS3 in Europe, it's far too early to say his comments are incorrect.

Also, it should be noted that he expected a March '08 release of MGS4. That portion of the 'tsunami' has been moved to the April/May timeframe. The boost will be there in that case, but just a month or two later than he anticipated.

[Bee]

Is he really that wrong? Note that he is the president of SCEE, which is the Sony Corp. division in Europe. The PS3 is currently outselling the Xbox 360 by roughly 50,000 units a week in Europe. Granted, we'll have to see whether they can keep the momentum going in PAL territories. Perhaps the 'tsunami' comparison was a bit dramatic, but given the good sales of the PS3 in Europe, it's far too early to say his comments are incorrect.

Also, it should be noted that he expected a March '08 release of MGS4. That portion of the 'tsunami' has been moved to the April/May timeframe. The boost will be there in that case, but just a month or two later than he anticipated.

You make me laugh. Thank you. :D

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

You make me laugh. Thank you. :D

Since you didn't explain your comment in any way, I'm assuming you believe that the trend will reverse and the 360 will retake the week-over-week lead in the near future? Just curious. I'd honestly be pretty surprised if that occurred. My thought is that it will be an even race or in the PS3's favor in Europe over the coming 6 month timeframe.

[Bee]

To clarify my statement for you. Everytime I read your spin it makes me laugh. :D

And btw the quote was concerning worldwide sales, not european sales although that wasn't clear in my snipped quote.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

To clarify my statement for you. Everytime I read your spin it makes me laugh. :D

And btw the quote was concerning worldwide sales, not european sales although that wasn't clear in my snipped quote.

Worldwide isn't all that cut and dry anymore either. In November, the PS3 outsold the 360 by nearly 200K units in Japan. In Europe, the PS3 is going to end up outselling the 360 by around 100K units for the month. That's 300K units that the 360 needs to make up in North America just to break even. They did not have that big of a margin worldwide last month, even with a Halo-boosted sales figure. It's going to be very interesting to see how close the worldwide numbers have drawn this month. Losing a 200K margin in one month would not be the best of signs.

[Atocep]

PS3 is to tsunami as Wii is to ________

[Bee]

shhh...we don't talk about the Wii. ;)

[Kang]

shhh...we don't talk about the Wii. ;)

Agreed. This is about Next Gen consoles!

[Bee]

Worldwide isn't all that cut and dry anymore either. In November, the PS3 outsold the 360 by nearly 200K units in Japan. In Europe, the PS3 is going to end up outselling the 360 by around 100K units for the month. That's 300K units that the 360 needs to make up in North America just to break even. They did not have that big of a margin worldwide last month, even with a Halo-boosted sales figure. It's going to be very interesting to see how close the worldwide numbers have drawn this month. Losing a 200K margin in one month would not be the best of signs.

Wii 15.56 Million
360 14.14 Million
PS3 6.73 Million

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Wii 15.56 Million
360 14.14 Million
PS3 6.73 Million

That's fine, but that has little to do with the current trend. As badly as the PS3 launched, the 360 should have this console war already won. The fact that they're already breaking even in sales on a monthly basis with the PS3 after only a year is very telling. Three months ago, I could have got 100-1 odds that the PS3 would have increased their sales to the level they have in 3 short months.

[Eaglesfan27]

That's fine, but that has little to do with the current trend. As badly as the PS3 launched, the 360 should have this console war already won. The fact that they're already breaking even in sales on a monthly basis with the PS3 after only a year is very telling. Three months ago, I could have got 100-1 odds that the PS3 would have increased their sales to the level they have in 3 short months.


And yet at the current world wide pace they won't ever catch the 360 or the Wii. That is one powerful Tsunami.

[Bee]

I don't know...they could catch up to the 360 in 6 or 7 years if they can keep the "tsunami" going. :D

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

And yet at the current world wide pace they won't ever catch the 360 or the Wii. That is one powerful Tsunami.

I'm going to disagree with you on that point as well. I think it may take until sometime in 2009, but I do think the PS3 will surpass the 360 at that point. I think the major hurdle is obviously catching back up in North America. The PS3 will catch up in Europe sometime next year and will obviously win in Japan. If Sony can continue to win those two regions by somewhere between 150-300K units, it's going to put a lot of pressure on MS to keep a large margin going in North America. I'm not sure that MS will be able to keep that much of a lead in North America to offset those gains overseas.

The games in North America are coming next year, so that should resolve the gaming quantiy/quality problem. Another key for the PS3 in North America, like it or not, is the HD format war. Although the BR format holds a 2:1 movie sales lead, Sony really needs to finish off this format war by the end of the holidays next year. Any further than that could really hurt the PS3's growth potential.

[spleen1015]

Really, no one expected things to be the way they are now. Everyone thought that the PS3 would be the clear cut winner and the 360 would have just gained MS some ground. No one expected Nintendo to be in the picture at all.

So, regardless, this generation is a win for MS.

Yeah, you also said Lair was going to be a good game....

[MikeVic]

I'm going to disagree with you on that point as well. I think it may take until sometime in 2009, but I do think the PS3 will surpass the 360 at that point. I think the major hurdle is obviously catching back up in North America. The PS3 will catch up in Europe sometime next year and will obviously win in Japan. If Sony can continue to win those two regions by somewhere between 150-300K units, it's going to put a lot of pressure on MS to keep a large margin going in North America. I'm not sure that MS will be able to keep that much of a lead in North America to offset those gains overseas.

The games in North America are coming next year, so that should resolve the gaming quantiy/quality problem. Another key for the PS3 in North America, like it or not, is the HD format war. Although the BR format holds a 2:1 movie sales lead, Sony really needs to finish off this format war by the end of the holidays next year. Any further than that could really hurt the PS3's growth potential.

Maybe my math is off... but here goes:

If Sony outsells the 360 and Wii by 225k units a month in each of Europe and Japan... so that's 450k units a month of selling if we put the Wii and 360 just flat-out selling 0 units... it'll take a year and a half to get in the 15M units range world-wide... am I wrong here?

450,000 units*18 months = 8,100,000 units.
8,100,000 units + 6,730,000 units so far = 14,830,000 units.

Please someone tell me I'm not mathing properly.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

So, regardless, this generation is a win for MS.

Short-term win for MS? Yes, probably so. Long-term? Hard to tell. The quality control issues have caused some major PR hits for the 360. There's going to be lingering concerns on that for the rest of this console's lifecycle and most certainly questions when the new console comes along. With that said, I'm hoping that the RROD mess was a big wake-up call and that all companies in the console business avoid any issues like that in the future.

Really, no one expected things to be the way they are now. Everyone thought that the PS3 would be the clear cut winner and the 360 would have just gained MS some ground. No one expected Nintendo to be in the picture at all.

Yeah, you also said Lair was going to be a good game....

Much like your first point in this post, most thought Lair would be a good game. With the library that the 360 has, I could point out plenty of bad games, but those games don't define the console, much like Lair doesn't define the PS3. There's plenty of good games on both consoles at this point. Bad games go ignored rather than define a console.

[gstelmack]

The quality control issues have caused some major PR hits for the 360.

Yeah, they really killed their October sales number and just took all the steam out of the Black Friday push :rolleyes:

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Maybe my math is off... but here goes:

I'll simplify it somewhat. Sony has to cut the console difference between the 360 and Sony by let say 7M units (this holiday isn't over yet obviously). Sony has to outsell the 360 worldwide by 3.5M each year to do it by the end of 2009. That's roughly 300K units/month worldwide for two straight years. Certainly a tremendous task to complete.

I believe there are going to be some boosts along the way that will decrease the margin needed in other months. I think the first major boost in 2008 worldwide will obviously be MGS4 in the April timeframe. GT5 should be another big boost month. God of War 3 could be coming as soon as Holiday season 2008 along with Resistance 2. FF games will come likely in late 2008 or early 2009 and will provide a huge boost.

On the MS side, while they have had some good exclusives, the only true system seller at this point is the Halo franchise. They need to prep another Halo game as soon as possible. I think that Gears has also reached the level where it will boost sales as well, though to a lesser degree than Halo.

Either way, the competition is wonderful. With the narrowing of the sales gap, developers are going to be on both systems creating some great titles for both user bases.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Yeah, they really killed their October sales number and just took all the steam out of the Black Friday push :rolleyes:

As has been mentioned before, the sales figures for that weekend have been highly debated. Until we see the NPD figures, it's hard to tell who's telling the truth. But we'll know in the next week or so.

[Kodos]

I had an open-box 60 GB PS3 in my cart today for $399, but I just couldn't get myself to pull the trigger. I have a lot of games for the 360 that I haven't even played yet. Figured I would wait for another price drop on the 80 GB model and for a rumble-enabled controller to come around.

Does anyone know when the new controller is supposed to be available?

Main problem with my 360 is that I am pretty sure it is going to crap out soon, as it has been acting up a bit recently with RRODs.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Does anyone know when the new controller is supposed to be available?

Pretty sure the rumble is available in North America in February.

[Daimyo]

I'll simplify it somewhat. Sony has to cut the console difference between the 360 and Sony by let say 7M units (this holiday isn't over yet obviously). Sony has to outsell the 360 worldwide by 3.5M each year to do it by the end of 2009. That's roughly 300K units/month worldwide for two straight years. Certainly a tremendous task to complete.

I believe there are going to be some boosts along the way that will decrease the margin needed in other months. I think the first major boost in 2008 worldwide will obviously be MGS4 in the April timeframe. GT5 should be another big boost month. God of War 3 could be coming as soon as Holiday season 2008 along with Resistance 2. FF games will come likely in late 2008 or early 2009 and will provide a huge boost.

On the MS side, while they have had some good exclusives, the only true system seller at this point is the Halo franchise. They need to prep another Halo game as soon as possible. I think that Gears has also reached the level where it will boost sales as well, though to a lesser degree than Halo.

Either way, the competition is wonderful. With the narrowing of the sales gap, developers are going to be on both systems creating some great titles for both user bases.

Reading what you type, it almost sounds like you think all the great Xbox 360 games have already been released... almost like you think there won't be another game released for the xbox this generation. Sure PS3 has some system selling games coming, buts its pretty silly to think Xbox won't at the very least keep pace from here out.

[Eaglesfan27]

On the MS side, while they have had some good exclusives, the only true system seller at this point is the Halo franchise. They need to prep another Halo game as soon as possible. I think that Gears has also reached the level where it will boost sales as well, though to a lesser degree than Halo.

Either way, the competition is wonderful. With the narrowing of the sales gap, developers are going to be on both systems creating some great titles for both user bases.

As usual, you don't give enough credits to the 360 exclusives. Bioshock has become a player in the race. So has Mass Effect which has done very well in sales. Those games will have sequels and Bioshock's may be out in 2008. GOW 2 will likely be out in 08. Also, Ninja Gaiden was a major seller and the 360 exclusive of that will be out in 08. There are dozens of exclusives coming out for the 360, and some of them will be good enough to keep the sales of 360's flowing, not to mention the superior library that the 360 already has out. As far as the narrowing of the sales gap, that isn't even a foregone conclusion. I wouldn't be surprised if the final numbers for this holiday season show that the 360 has increased the gap.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

As usual, you don't give enough credits to the 360 exclusives. Bioshock has become a player in the race. So has Mass Effect which has done very well in sales. Those games will have sequels and Bioshock's may be out in 2008. GOW 2 will likely be out in 08. Also, Ninja Gaiden was a major seller and the 360 exclusive of that will be out in 08. There are dozens of exclusives coming out for the 360, and some of them will be good enough to keep the sales of 360's flowing, not to mention the superior library that the 360 already has out. As far as the narrowing of the sales gap, that isn't even a foregone conclusion. I wouldn't be surprised if the final numbers for this holiday season show that the 360 has increased the gap.

I agree that Bioshock, GOW2, NG2 and Mass Effect will all sell well. With that said, only Gears of War can be considered a console mover. Mass Effect is highly rated, but hasn't moved units at all. Bioshock provided a great game for existing owners, but didn't provide a substantial boost in console sales. NG2 is a niche game and will sell well, but no one's going to go out and buy a console to play that game. You highly overestimate the console moving power of 3 out of those 4 games. As I said before, Halo and GOW are the major console movers at this point.

In regards to the gap, the numbers will be here in a week. You stated earlier in this thread that we'd have to wait a long time to see the PS3 take a worldwide lead. This month's North American numbers should complete the picture and see just how close Sony gets.

[Atocep]

FWIW, despite the spin coming from Sony market analysts are predicting that the 360 rivals Wii sales in North America this holiday season with both outselling the PS3 roughly 2:1.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

FWIW, despite the spin coming from Sony market analysts are predicting that the 360 rivals Wii sales in North America this holiday season with both outselling the PS3 roughly 2:1.

Analysts are a dime a dozen in this industry. They all have an opinion, but usually end up being wrong. I would be greatly interested to see the link to the analyst who said that, as the number for November are going to make him look silly in regards to the 360. I'm not sure who you're referring to, but there's no way in God's green Earth that the 360 will rival the Wii sales during the holiday season. I'm all for discussion, but let's deal in some numbers that have some basis in fact.

Here's the raw numbers for November according to VGChartz (standard disclaimer applies as they overstated the Xbox 360 sales numbers by over 250K in October):

Worldwide Console Sales Numbers for November:

Wii: 3,219,000
PS3: 1,994,000
360: 1,769,000

Worldwide numbers show that the PS3 will outsell the 360 this month by over 200K units. Wii outsells the 360 by 82% and the PS3 by 61%.


November North American Totals:

Wii: 2,261K
360: 1,390K
PS3: 1,263K

Week beginning October 28th:

Wii: 279K
360: 197K
PS3: 145K

Week beginning November 4th:

wii: 264K
360: 201K
PS3: 200K

Week beginning November 11th:

Wii: 433K
360: 241K
PS3: 229K

Week beginning November 18th:

Wii: 640K
360: 391K
PS3: 338K

Week beginning November 25th:

Wii: 645K
360: 360K
PS3: 351K

North America is now the only region where the 360 is not in last place amongst the 3 major consoles. The 360 outsold the PS3 by roughly 130K units. The Wii leads by a sizable margin over the PS3 and 360.


November Japanese Totals:

Wii: 237K
PS3: 215K
360: 50K

Week beginning October 28th:

Wii: 40K
360: 18K
PS3: 17K

Week beginning November 4th:

PS3: 57K
wii: 35K
360: 7K

Week beginning November 11th:

PS3: 47K
Wii: 36K
360: 6K

Week beginning November 18th:

PS3: 55K
Wii: 51K
360: 7K

Week beginning November 25th:

Wii: 75K
PS3: 39K
360: 5K

The PS3 made a big run at the Wii in Japan, falling just short of first place. The 360 is being outsold by both the PS3 and Wii by over a 4:1 margin.


November PAL Totals:

Wii: 721K
PS3: 516K
360: 329K

Week beginning October 28th:

Wii: 93K
PS3: 73K
360: 41K

Week beginning November 4th:

wii: 83K
PS3: 79K
360: 49K

Week beginning November 11th:

Wii: 130K
PS3: 87K
360: 59K

Week beginning November 18th:

Wii: 171K
PS3: 108K
360: 75K

Week beginning November 25th:

Wii: 244K
PS3: 169K
360: 105K

The Wii wins this region as well, outselling the PS3 by 200K and the 360 by over 400K. Very discouraging numbers for MS as they hoped they could hold even in Europe with the PS3.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Bad news for PAL territory Wii owners.......Super Smash Bros. Brawl has been delayed until the 3rd quarter of 2008.

http://www.videogamer.com/news/06-12-2007-7051.html

[Atocep]

1.) The PS3 is still over 7 million consoles behind 360. It isn't catching MS in '08 and even '09 would be a major stretching considering the number of consoles sold is going to drop after the holiday season.

2.) Regardless of what happens Sony comes out of this generation as the big losers. Neither the PS3 nor Blu-Ray have performed anywhere near as well as Sony hoped and still trailing the 360 in '09 is still worst case scenario for Sony when you look at the expectations the PS3 had. There is no way to spin the way this generation has played out. It has been disaster after disaster for Sony.

3.) You spin absolutely everything in Sony's favor. You could look at those numbers and say that despite the much anticpated price drop the PS3 is still in last place in North America.

4.) The Wii is the winner this genration. There is no way around it, no way to spin it. Right now MS and Sony are battling for the bragging rights that come with 2nd place. The fact that both MS and Sony fanboys ignore the Wii is what makes it funny. They accept that they have no shot at catching it and just want to argue back and forth.

5.) Sony fanboys are a dime a dozen in the industry. They have an opinion, but this generation usually end up being wrong. I'm all in for discussion, but lets look at some numbers that have some basis in fact.

Wii 15.56 Million
360 14.14 Million
PS3 6.73 Million

For those keeping score at home. That is Sony in last place and even at the current rate if they outsell the 360 by 200k per month (unthinkable) then its still nearly 3 years before they catch the 360.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

1.) The PS3 is still over 7 million consoles behind 360. It isn't catching MS in '08 and even '09 would be a major stretching considering the number of consoles sold is going to drop after the holiday season.

2.) Regardless of what happens Sony comes out of this generation as the big losers. Neither the PS3 nor Blu-Ray have performed anywhere near as well as Sony hoped and still trailing the 360 in '09 is still worst case scenario for Sony when you look at the expectations the PS3 had. There is no way to spin the way this generation has played out. It has been disaster after disaster for Sony.

3.) You spin absolutely everything in Sony's favor. You could look at those numbers and say that despite the much anticpated price drop the PS3 is still in last place in North America.

4.) The Wii is the winner this genration. There is no way around it, no way to spin it. Right now MS and Sony are battling for the bragging rights that come with 2nd place. The fact that both MS and Sony fanboys ignore the Wii is what makes it funny. They accept that they have no shot at catching it and just want to argue back and forth.

5.) Sony fanboys are a dime a dozen in the industry. They have an opinion, but this generation usually end up being wrong. I'm all in for discussion, but lets look at some numbers that have some basis in fact.

For those keeping score at home. That is Sony in last place and even at the current rate if they outsell the 360 by 200k per month (unthinkable) then its still nearly 3 years before they catch the 360.

I'm still waiting for that analyst who said the 360 would match the Wii sales this holiday season and outsell the PS3 2:1.

1. Sony is behind. That was never questioned.

2. Sony did mess up this generation. That was also never questioned. I'm not sure there's been many disasters of late for Sony, as they have finally put some AAA titles into play and dropped the price, which has generated very positive press and sales numbers.

3. I didn't spin anything. The numbers are right there. The 360 will finish last in worldwide sales this month. One month ago, very few people would have even considered that a possiblity. EF27 countered my prediction that the PS3 would beat the 360 in worldwide numbers this month by saying that I'd have to wait awhile longer for that to happen. That would appear to be incorrect.

4. The Wii is the winner in this generation. That was never questioned and these numbers back that up. Not sure why there's any disagreement there.

5. Cute play on my comments, but I still haven't seen you cite the analyst's article. I didn't do any analysis outside of posting the raw numbers that show that I was correct at the start of this month. Certainly, I've already cited the uphill climb for Sony, but they still have a lot of bullets in the gun in regard to exclusives that will sell a lot of consoles. The next one to watch is the release later this month of Gran Turismo 5 Prologue. IMHO, it's nothing more than a glorified demo, but it should provide a nice numbers boost in Japan in December.

[Fidatelo]

I can't believe it's been almost a year and we are still arguing with MBBF about this.

[Atocep]

I'm still waiting for that analyst who said the 360 would match the Wii sales this holiday season and outsell the PS3 2:1.



There is no point to posting it. You don't believe anything written or spoken that goes against what you have already made up in your mind. I didn't say it was solid proof of anything either. If you noticed I opened the comment off with a "fwiw" not insuating in any way what I believe.

You seem to assume everyone in this thread is in one way or another as biased as you. Here are some facts. I do not own a PS3 or 360. I have never played a game on or touched either console. I bought a Wii for my son in March and bought exactly 1 game for myself on the console when I got it. None since. I do not visit fanboy sites for Sony or Microsoft, any info I read is from sites that cover all consoles and PC games (PC games is why I would be on the site in the first place).

Numbers can be posted again and again and again, but Sony is still just over 7 million consoles behind and their chances of catching the 360 before Microsoft launches their next console are slim at best. Its going to take more than a Tsunami to finish 2nd at this point.

My comment about the Wii is because every time you and others mention the console war and someone winning it is always talk between the 360 and PS3. You don't even have to leave this page to see it.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

There is no point to posting it.

Numbers can be posted again and again and again, but Sony is still just over 7 million consoles behind and their chances of catching the 360 before Microsoft launches their next console are slim at best. Its going to take more than a Tsunami to finish 2nd at this point.

My comment about the Wii is because every time you and others mention the console war and someone winning it is always talk between the 360 and PS3. You don't even have to leave this page to see it.

I certainly would love to see it, but I understand if you're unwilling to post it.

I totally disagree that the PS3 can't catch the 360 in 2 years time. I've stated my reasons for that belief at length.

The battle between next-gen consoles is between the 360 and the PS3 IMO. I fully understand that some may disagree with that. With that said, I cited the Wii's numbers in my post and stated that they were leading in all three regions. I'm not what more credit you would like to see for the Wii. I'd say that's pretty high praise.

[sterlingice]

The battle between next-gen consoles is between the 360 and the PS3 IMO. I fully understand that some may disagree with that. With that said, I cited the Wii's numbers in my post and stated that they were leading in all three regions. I'm not what more credit you would like to see for the Wii. I'd say that's pretty high praise.

Going out on a limb, but I'm guessing he was looking for you to actually acknowledge the Wii as a console for this gen. Just guessing, tho. I mean damning with faint praise is always appreciated, too.

SI

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Going out on a limb, but I'm guessing he was looking for you to actually acknowledge the Wii as a console for this gen. Just guessing, tho. I mean damning with faint praise is always appreciated, too.

SI

I have a Wii myself. I play it quite a bit and enjoy it. But it's not a next-gen system. That's my opinion and nothing more. I'm not sure why he would care whether or not I 'acknowledge' it. I don't see how it matters.

[MJ4H]

It is absolutely a next-gen system, and your opinion that it is not is stupid.

[stevew]

Fine....call it HD systems vs ED systems then. The Wii is what it is...pretty darn fun. But it's not an HD system like the 360 or ps3.

[gstelmack]

Fine....call it HD systems vs ED systems then. The Wii is what it is...pretty darn fun. But it's not an HD system like the 360 or ps3.

The Wii went for next-gen controller and user experience, rather than next-gen processor/video/sound. It's just different next-gen, and doing quite well for that.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

The Wii went for next-gen controller and user experience, rather than next-gen processor/video/sound. It's just different next-gen, and doing quite well for that.

I think that's a fair assessment. Just because it's different does not mean it's inferior.

[Big Fo]

People it's been over a year since these consoles came out. 360, PS3, and Wii are all current-gen now. Next-gen will be the stuff coming out sometime around 2012.

[MizzouRah]

Has anyone posted this ps3 $299 deal?

Glen from the Sports Gamer blog posted this link: http://sonycard.sony.com/sonygateway/gateway.asp?offerlink=adbrit100&PID=none&SPID=B7RZ&CELL=628Y&MSC=MO001001&AFFID=&CLICK=&CID=&PROMO=DF01

[Groundhog]

Are Wii systems region coded? I can't see myself buying one any point in the near future after spending so much cash on a PS3 and a Macbook over the past few months, but it's a possibility further down the track, if solely for the Mario and Zelda titles.

[MJ4H]

Yes.

[Pacersfan46]

Sony did well in November in part because on Black Friday they gave away TEN Blu Ray disc movies with the purchase of any PS3. At bare minimum price that's $250 worth of movies if they're the price of a Blu Ray movie the day it comes out, which is cheaper initially.

Microsoft didn't have any real deal, and still was fairly even with the PS3 in that month that they were giving away hundreds of dollars worth of movies to move a PS3.

That's really not such good news.

-- Steve --

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Sony did well in November in part because on Black Friday they gave away TEN Blu Ray disc movies with the purchase of any PS3. At bare minimum price that's $250 worth of movies if they're the price of a Blu Ray movie the day it comes out, which is cheaper initially.

Microsoft didn't have any real deal, and still was fairly even with the PS3 in that month that they were giving away hundreds of dollars worth of movies to move a PS3.

That's really not such good news.

-- Steve --

There were great bundle deals all over the place for the 360 on Black Friday and a lot of people bought them. Most of those bundle deals were store-offered, not MS.

Similarly, the BR offer was a store offer, not Sony. Also, those BR disks only probably cost Sony about $5-10 to create with the movie and the wholesale price was very cheap (not anything close to retail). They weren't giving away anything near the $250 you claim they were handing out.

2/3rds of the sales for the month occurred outside the Thanksgiving week. It wasn't solely based on sales for that week. MS actually claimed a 2:1 sales advantage for the Thanksgiving weekend in a press release. Obviously, those numbers were not even close to correct as Sony had asserted in their follow-up press release.

[wade moore]

To be fair, 5 of the free Blu-Ray discs were from Sony.

But, yeah - I got a 360 package with a free controller and it was one of several store deals (Guitar Hero II, etc) that i could have chosen from.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

To be fair, 5 of the free Blu-Ray discs were from Sony.

Actually, they weren't part of those 10 BR movies. The deal that Pacersfan is referring to was the Wal-Mart Black Friday PS3 deal. With a PS3 purchase, the buyer got 10 free BR movies from Wal-Mart instantly.

The 5 free BR movies deal that you're referring to was separate, making the total deal actually 15 free BR movies.

[CraigSca]

Random FOFC'er: The 360 outsold the PS3 X to 1 this week/month/year/century.

MBBF: No one questions that. Just this week the PS3 sold 4 more units in Kobe, Japan, that's what matters. Plus, the PS3 has a special this week where you get 3 copies of Ishtar on Blue Ray and a 4 dimensional-axis racing wheel. Celine Dion has announced that her next album will be a PS3 exclusive.

Random FOFC'er: But the 360 still outsells the PS3.

MBBF: No one questions that, moron. Sony will soon be announcing a new SKU with a built-in floppy drive and Betamax support. This should make Valentine's Day very interesting!

[CraigSca]

MBBF: From a purely analytical point of view - tell me, what vested interest do you have in Sony that you feel the need to support them here? Is there anything beyond the typical, "hey, I bought one and I don't want to feel bad that I possibly made the wrong decision"?

I suppose I could say the same for myself, but I'm really not that interested in the day-to-day upkeep that this "responsibility" requires.

[Bee]

Random FOFC'er: The 360 outsold the PS3 X to 1 this week/month/year/century.

MBBF: No one questions that. Just this week the PS3 sold 4 more units in Kobe, Japan, that's what matters. Plus, the PS3 has a special this week where you get 3 copies of Ishtar on Blue Ray and a 4 dimensional-axis racing wheel. Celine Dion has announced that her next album will be a PS3 exclusive.

Random FOFC'er: But the 360 still outsells the PS3.

MBBF: No one questions that, moron. Sony will soon be announcing a new SKU with a built-in floppy drive and Betamax support. This should Valentine's Day very interesting!

That was almost as funny as the actual posts he makes. :D

[Phototropic]

Random FOFC'er: The 360 outsold the PS3 X to 1 this week/month/year/century.

MBBF: No one questions that. Just this week the PS3 sold 4 more units in Kobe, Japan, that's what matters. Plus, the PS3 has a special this week where you get 3 copies of Ishtar on Blue Ray and a 4 dimensional-axis racing wheel. Celine Dion has announced that her next album will be a PS3 exclusive.

Random FOFC'er: But the 360 still outsells the PS3.

MBBF: No one questions that, moron. Sony will soon be announcing a new SKU with a built-in floppy drive and Betamax support. This should make Valentine's Day very interesting!
:D

[Butter]

I can't believe it's been almost a year and we are still arguing with MBBF about this.

Also confused about why these threads are still so long.

More fun to read than a political debate, though.

[albionmoonlight]

I still love these threads.

[wade moore]

Also confused about why these threads are still so long.

More fun to read than a political debate, though.

I still love these threads.

I think Butter hit it well. Because this is just video games it never gets THAT serious like a political thread, yet it still has all of the fun and drama of a good partisan fight that just never quite escalates too far.

[Eaglesfan27]

There is an interesting rumor out there. Based on a new patent applied for by Sega, there is speculation that a Dreamcast 2 might be in the works.

http://www.videogamer.com/news/06-12-2007-7049.html

[albionmoonlight]

There is an interesting rumor out there. Based on a new patent applied for by Sega, there is speculation that a Dreamcast 2 might be in the works.

http://www.videogamer.com/news/06-12-2007-7049.html

That might just be come patent/trademark lawyers trying to bill some more hours by convincing the company that it should renew.

I had a Dreamcast. Good system. Too bad it fell off the face of the Earth.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

MBBF: From a purely analytical point of view - tell me, what vested interest do you have in Sony that you feel the need to support them here? Is there anything beyond the typical, "hey, I bought one and I don't want to feel bad that I possibly made the wrong decision"?

I suppose I could say the same for myself, but I'm really not that interested in the day-to-day upkeep that this "responsibility" requires.

No one was bitching about my bias earlier in the month when I posted totals showing that the 360 had a good October and the PS3 crapped all over itself. No one complained when I was bashing Sony executives over their PR mismanagement. No backhanded comments were made when I posted news about a new 360 exclusive. Now, the sales numbers switch from heavily in the 360's favor to a slight PS3 advantage worldwide (which no one expected) and everyone tosses the verbal grenades. There's plenty of bias in these threads on all sides. Don't kid yourself. But that shouldn't detract from using information to carry on a discussion and provide points and counterpoints.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

There is an interesting rumor out there. Based on a new patent applied for by Sega, there is speculation that a Dreamcast 2 might be in the works.

http://www.videogamer.com/news/06-12-2007-7049.html

I'm not sure there's any room for a 4th console right now.

[Daimyo]

No one was bitching about my bias earlier in the month when I posted totals showing that the 360 had a good October and the PS3 crapped all over itself. No one complained when I was bashing Sony executives over their PR mismanagement. No backhanded comments were made when I posted news about a new 360 exclusive.
Actually people were doing all those things all along for a year now. You hadn't noticed?

[gstelmack]

No one was bitching about my bias earlier in the month when I posted totals showing that the 360 had a good October and the PS3 crapped all over itself.

First, the raw numbers (numbers are from VGChartz):

1. This month's 360 numbers demonstrate the impact that Halo 3 has on the North American market. Mass Effect is due this month for the 360. Should provide a good software sales boost for the 360.

2. The PS3 will likely overtake both the PS2 and Xbox 360 worldwide in the upcoming month as price cuts hit Japan and North America last week. Europe is also still reporting brisk sales of the 40 GB PS3 with low supply available at this point. The announcement that Singstar will now release in 2007 should help European sales as well (won't release in NA until 2008). Sony also received more good news this week as two third-party exclusives which were originally announced as delayed until 2008 (Haze and Unreal Tournament III), were both announced as being set for December 2007 releases in North America.


Where exactly where you talking about the PS3 crapping all over itself? Yes, you did say the 360 had a good month, but you still turned that into a positive for Sony with a lot of "likelies". THAT'S the point being made here, and you did it in post #1 of this thread!

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Where exactly where you talking about the PS3 crapping all over itself? Yes, you did say the 360 had a good month, but you still turned that into a positive for Sony with a lot of "likelies". THAT'S the point being made here, and you did it in post #1 of this thread!

Read carefully.............

.......when I posted totals showing that the 360 had a good October and the PS3 crapped all over itself.

I said I posted the totals, nothing more. I kept the points about the 360 and the PS3 in separate points. Point #1 of the post clearly stated that the 360 had a good October.

Regarding the rest of that post, that was obviously my opinion based on what the market held. Obviously, given the early November numbers I just posted, it would appear that my opinion concerning the worldwide November numbers was spot-on. Is it bias if I was right?

Since some other people said there was no way that the PS3 would win worldwide, is it bias fueling their posts since they were apparently wrong? No, it's opinion and it's a discussion. People have a right to say whatever they want without being attacked for their opinion, even if it does contain some level of bias on one side or the other.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Actually people were doing all those things all along for a year now. You hadn't noticed?

People were complaining that I was pointing out the weaknesses of the PS3 and its executive group? I'd love to see a link. I certainly haven't seen it, though I think it's blatently obvious why that is.

[Butter]

Don't understand why MBBF is so hung up on worldwide numbers? We're in the US, who gives a rat's ass if this thing is kicking ass in Sweden (sorry Icy and others)? I want to know what is going on here. And he should too, considering he is in Kansas City, the city in the US with highest ratio of XBox 360's to PS3's (I'll find a link... or maybe I won't).

[spleen1015]

Don't understand why MBBF is so hung up on worldwide numbers? We're in the US, who gives a rat's ass if this thing is kicking ass in Sweden (sorry Icy and others)? I want to know what is going on here. And he should too, considering he is in Kansas City, the city in the US with highest ratio of XBox 360's to PS3's (I'll find a link... or maybe I won't).

He doesn't have an argument if he only focuses on the US.

[Eaglesfan27]

Don't understand why MBBF is so hung up on worldwide numbers? We're in the US, who gives a rat's ass if this thing is kicking ass in Sweden (sorry Icy and others)? I want to know what is going on here. And he should too, considering he is in Kansas City, the city in the US with highest ratio of XBox 360's to PS3's (I'll find a link... or maybe I won't).

He doesn't have an argument if he only focuses on the US.

Completely agree on both points.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Don't understand why MBBF is so hung up on worldwide numbers? We're in the US, who gives a rat's ass if this thing is kicking ass in Sweden (sorry Icy and others)? I want to know what is going on here.

Obviously, North America is a major player now in the console war. Those numbers are very important. With that said, game libraries and console features are still heavily influenced by what happens in other regions. The region-free aspect of the PS3 highlights that influence even more. MS, Sony and Nintendo all need more than just one region to make these consoles successful and profitable.

He doesn't have an argument if he only focuses on the US.

American car companies thought that way for a long time as well. They nearly all went bankrupt until they finally figured out that a global economy actually existed. I'd also argue that Sony has learned that the hard way through the first year of the PS3's existence. They've had to learn that the economic world does not center on Japan. They're finally more active in the North American and PAL markets, which has resulted in much better results of late.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Lots of grumbling by developers over latest 'exclusive demo' move by Microsoft. MS has decided to only allow Gold users to access demos on XBL when they are initially released. After one week, Silver users can then access then access the demo. This obviously limits the number of users exposed to demos, which is something the developers/publishers are not happy about.

From Major Nelson:

Just a reminder that if you have a Silver account, you won’t have access to free content on the the Marketplace (like demos) when they are first posted. That content will be available to Gold level exclusively for one week, after which Silver members will have access to the free content.

The Fall update has a special message (above) to reflect this as well. If you have a Silver account and you see a piece of content that has a red circle with a slash through it (like the ‘Ryan Industries Plasmids and Gene Tonics’ content above) you’ll have to wait until a week after the content is released to access it.

This is not done to annoy our Silver members—limited time exclusive access to content is just one of the many benefits of having a Gold Xbox Live account.

[Mustang]

In keeping up with all the sales numbers and informaton and updating this thread, do you even have TIME to play with the PS3?

[gstelmack]

Read carefully.............



I said I posted the totals, nothing more. I kept the points about the 360 and the PS3 in separate points. Point #1 of the post clearly stated that the 360 had a good October.

Regarding the rest of that post, that was obviously my opinion based on what the market held. Obviously, given the early November numbers I just posted, it would appear that my opinion concerning the worldwide November numbers was spot-on. Is it bias if I was right?

Since some other people said there was no way that the PS3 would win worldwide, is it bias fueling their posts since they were apparently wrong? No, it's opinion and it's a discussion. People have a right to say whatever they want without being attacked for their opinion, even if it does contain some level of bias on one side or the other.

I'll try one last time. No one disputes that you will say positive things about Microsoft and negative things about Sony. What gets people laughing at what you have to say is your SPIN after those comments. As in the example I gave above. Yes, you posted numbers showing good things for Microsoft and bad things for Sony, but immediately said how good things were for Sony anyway. You do that pretty much every time. And you are very zealous about it. You can never let a negative thing for Sony or a positive thing for Microsoft go for long at all without twisting it somehow in Sony's favor. You have an opinion that favors Sony on every tiny little bit of video gaming news you can get your hands on, even when your opinion flies in the face of all the facts you just presented. THAT'S why you get the reputation as a spin-doctor. Pay close attention to the post that started this particular chain and I think you'll see the same thing said differently.

Yes, Sony had their second month where their numbers may have come close to the 360 (as you said, we'll wait for NPD, which may tilt them even more in Sony's favor). You then jump to the conclusion that this means they'll catch Microsoft soon. If they wait until 2009 to do so (which would take a huge jump AHEAD of the 360 in sales to do), they'll do it right near the end of what everyone believes is this generation of consoles (4th year for the 360). And you base all of this on maybe the second month in the last 5 or 6 where they actually gained anything at all on the 360.

No one can figure out where you get your opinions from, especially when you post facts that contradict your own opinion, yet somehow try to use those facts to bolster your opinion.

[TroyF]

1) I've told MBBF repeatedly that MS doesn't plan to win the Japan market. They know damned well they can't win that market. MS is concentrating mainly on US sales. It's the reason they beat the PS3 to market by a year and what they were going after. Trying to spin that in any other way (ie: automakers, blah, blah, blah) is idiotic.

2) The Wii is going to win this generation in terms of hardware sales. This industry is about more than hardware sales though. I think the 360 (and PS3 now that they have their heads out of their asses) can do some major damage in software sales over the life of the systems.

3) Sony makes a price cut, actually puts out advertising that is fairly good and they couldn't catch the 360 here. That's a disaster. The PS3 has now been out over a year and they are still coming up 127k short in the US market. This is the collapse of a brand name that is rarely seen. It'd be like RC Cola outselling Coke. Last gen saw the PS2 beat the Xbox by a count of 120 million (and counting) to 24 million. Now they are getting their asses handed to them. What a disaster.

[Big Fo]

You can't say MS hasn't been trying in Japan though. They've spent a lot of money to get games like Blue Dragon and Lost Odyssey as 360 exclusives to cater to Japanese gamers but it just didn't work.

There is an interesting rumor out there. Based on a new patent applied for by Sega, there is speculation that a Dreamcast 2 might be in the works.

That would be awesome, potentially a second console worth buying this generation. Unfortunately it's about a one in a million chance and anyhow Sega's games aren't half as good as they used to be.

[CraigSca]

1)3) Sony makes a price cut, actually puts out advertising that is fairly good and they couldn't catch the 360 here. That's a disaster. The PS3 has now been out over a year and they are still coming up 127k short in the US market. This is the collapse of a brand name that is rarely seen. It'd be like RC Cola outselling Coke. Last gen saw the PS2 beat the Xbox by a count of 120 million (and counting) to 24 million. Now they are getting their asses handed to them. What a disaster.

I was going to reply with my impression of MTBB's response to this, but I got bored. Something along the lines of, "Yeah, we know that already. I said that 6 weeks ago. Btw, Sony has announced that new PS3s will now come with a spare power cable and a contraceptive sponge, bringing the real cost down to $49."

Hmmm - I guess I was only half-bored.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

In keeping up with all the sales numbers and informaton and updating this thread, do you even have TIME to play with the PS3?

Baby goes to bed after 8:30 PM. Gaming time comes after that.

[TroyF]

You can't say MS hasn't been trying in Japan though. They've spent a lot of money to get games like Blue Dragon and Lost Odyssey as 360 exclusives to cater to Japanese gamers but it just didn't work.


They were trying to get a footprint. They spent some money to get games Japanese gamers like, but that money was also spent to give American gamers what they wanted as well. (those games were released in all territories)

MS never planned on winning in Japan. They never planned on finishing second in Japan. The goal was to try to carve out some market share. They aren't doing a good job with that, but lets not make it seem like MS had this great expectation of dominating in Japan. That's just false.

Hell, MS really only wanted to carve out some of Sony's market share in the US too. I don't think for a second they really believed they could win the battle with Sony this generation. Unless a miracle occurs, they'll do just that.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

1) I've told MBBF repeatedly that MS doesn't plan to win the Japan market. They know damned well they can't win that market. MS is concentrating mainly on US sales. It's the reason they beat the PS3 to market by a year and what they were going after. Trying to spin that in any other way (ie: automakers, blah, blah, blah) is idiotic.

2) The Wii is going to win this generation in terms of hardware sales. This industry is about more than hardware sales though. I think the 360 (and PS3 now that they have their heads out of their asses) can do some major damage in software sales over the life of the systems.

3) Sony makes a price cut, actually puts out advertising that is fairly good and they couldn't catch the 360 here. That's a disaster. The PS3 has now been out over a year and they are still coming up 127k short in the US market. This is the collapse of a brand name that is rarely seen. It'd be like RC Cola outselling Coke. Last gen saw the PS2 beat the Xbox by a count of 120 million (and counting) to 24 million. Now they are getting their asses handed to them. What a disaster.

1. MS has dumped hundreds of millions of dollars into both the Japanese and European markets. It's been pretty successful in Europe and a disaster in Japan. Saying that MS isn't trying in Japan is a farce.

2. Agreed.

3. I disagree with your statement here somewhat. I agree in that Sony has messed up in regard to market share. They should have easily held serve in this generation, but shot themselves in the foot with some of their decisions. I disagree in that I firmly believe that Sony will surpass the 360 in market share worldwide in 2 years' time.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

If they wait until 2009 to do so (which would take a huge jump AHEAD of the 360 in sales to do), they'll do it right near the end of what everyone believes is this generation of consoles (4th year for the 360). And you base all of this on maybe the second month in the last 5 or 6 where they actually gained anything at all on the 360.

This is certainly an interesting point here. If either company decides to bring out a new console in 2010, they're going to be doing a major disservice to their company. I'd argue that a new console any earlier than 2012-2013 would be a misstep similar to what the PS3 did this generation bringing out an overpriced console to a market that wasn't ready for it. Let's go with your assumption on the 360 that a new console comes in 2010. Retail it for $400 or so. Run that console up against the PS3, which likely will be retailing for around $200 or possibly even less. You're going to have some slow adoption rates on that new console, assuming that it's just a standard console with upgraded horsepower much like the PS3 or 360. But that's WAY in the future and makes a lot of assumptions. It's certainly a good discussion topic at face value.

[TroyF]

1. MS has dumped hundreds of millions of dollars into both the Japanese and European markets. It's been pretty successful in Europe and a disaster in Japan. Saying that MS isn't trying in Japan is a farce.

2. Agreed.

3. I disagree with your statement here somewhat. I agree in that Sony has messed up in regard to market share. They should have easily held serve in this generation, but shot themselves in the foot with some of their decisions. I disagree in that I firmly believe that Sony will surpass the 360 in market share worldwide in 2 years' time.


In two years time? You think the PS3 is going to outsell the 360 by over 7.4 million units in the next 24 months? You think they'll generate over 308 thousand more units a month than the 360 24 straight months? Okily dokily.

as far as MS in Japan, you are a fool if you think MS planned on winning or even getting solid market share in Japan. They aren't that stupid. They wanted to carve up a slice of the pie for themselves. There is no way in hell they planned on winning it or competing with Sony on their turf.

I hate to break it to you, but the MS guys are fairly good businessman. They didn't anticipate a situation that was 120 million to 24 million in favor of Sony to spin their way in one generation. They certainly didn't expect that in markets Sony has dominated in. If you honestly believe they did, there really is no hope for you and I'm convinced you are on the Sony payroll.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

as far as MS in Japan, you are a fool if you think MS planned on winning or even getting solid market share in Japan. They aren't that stupid. They wanted to carve up a slice of the pie for themselves. There is no way in hell they planned on winning it or competing with Sony on their turf.

I hate to break it to you, but the MS guys are fairly good businessman. They didn't anticipate a situation that was 120 million to 24 million in favor of Sony to spin their way in one generation. They certainly didn't expect that in markets Sony has dominated in. If you honestly believe they did, there really is no hope for you and I'm convinced you are on the Sony payroll.

No, they never expected to win Japan, but they expected to cut out a slice of the market no doubt. The fact that they've spent a lot more money on the 360 in Japan than the original Xbox and yet have nothing to show for it is a definite disappointment. They'd love to get a 15-20% share in that market, but it appears that it's not going to happen.

Those fairly good businessmen still haven't officially made a profit on the Xbox line of consoles. They're making in-roads in regard to market share, but it's come at a steep monetary price. Also, your implication that the console war has gone in their favor and has no chance to change is awfully premature given that several years still exist in this current console. The 360 has certainly done well thus far compared to the last generation and I'm sure MS hopes that continues.

The implication that I'm on Sony's payroll is laughable. Name-calling or implying that someone is on a payroll doesn't add anything to the discussion nor does it have any basis in fact.

[Bee]

They'd love to get a 15-20% share in that market, but it appears that it's not going to happen.



Who would have thought that we'd be saying the same thing about Sony in the US. :D

[TroyF]

No, they never expected to win Japan, but they expected to cut out a slice of the market no doubt. The fact that they've spent a lot more money on the 360 in Japan than the original Xbox and yet have nothing to show for it is a definite disappointment. They'd love to get a 15-20% share in that market, but it appears that it's not going to happen.

Those fairly good businessmen still haven't officially made a profit on the Xbox line of consoles. They're making in-roads in regard to market share, but it's come at a steep monetary price. Also, your implication that the console war has gone in their favor and has no chance to change is awfully premature given that several years still exist in this current console. The 360 has certainly done well thus far compared to the last generation and I'm sure MS hopes that continues.

The implication that I'm on Sony's payroll is laughable. Name-calling or implying that someone is on a payroll doesn't add anything to the discussion nor does it have any basis in fact.

Implication that the war is over? No chance to change? Where have I said that? I haven't said it once.

I stated fact: The Sony release is a disaster.

I stated fact: That if Sony were to catch the 360 in Worldwide numbers in 2 years time it'd force them to outsell the 360 by close to 310,000 units a month for the next 24 months.

I have never stated this war is over. I've never implied it's over. (outside of saying the Wii will win hardware in a landslide, but that's just obvious)

You are the one who is posting things with no basis in fact.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Who would have thought that we'd be saying the same thing about Sony in the US. :D

The Wii has obviously put both the 360 and the PS3 on their heels. Both of those consoles are going to be lucky to have 25% of the total consoles when the Wii is included in that market. It will have at least 50-60% of the market when it's all said and done if you consider it a 3 console race.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

You are the one who is posting things with no basis in fact.

Alright Troy. I fear your blood pressure may be out of control at this point. I'm going to let you have the last word.

[TroyF]

Alright Troy. I fear your blood pressure may be out of control at this point. I'm going to let you have the last word.


Don't worry about my blood pressure. I don't take this stuff seriously. It's just my writing style. This doesn't take away from the fact that what I wrote in my last post was accurate. You gave me the last word because you knew that, not because you were worried I'd have a heart attack.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Don't worry about my blood pressure. I don't take this stuff seriously. It's just my writing style. This doesn't take away from the fact that what I wrote in my last post was accurate. You gave me the last word because you knew that, not because you were worried I'd have a heart attack.

Glad to hear you health is in order.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Good news for Europeans who don't want to buy the 40 GB PS3. Multiple retailers are now listing the 80 GB PS3 machine with a release date in February. Sony really needed to provide another option as the 60 GB machine is all but gone, leaving Europe with only the 40 GB PS3 as an option.

[albionmoonlight]

Whatever we think about each other's thoughts about consoles and games, we can all agree that each of us knows a heck of a lot more than the New York Times.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/30/technology/30gadget_web.html

An article in Business Day on Friday about favorite gadgets of executives referred incorrectly to the video game Gran Turismo 5. It has not yet been released, and thus is not a best-selling game. The article also referred imprecisely to the game <alt-code idsrc="nyt-classifier" value="Halo (Video Game)">Halo 3</alt-code>. It is the first game in the Halo series designed for the Xbox 360; the earlier games, though playable on the Xbox 360, were designed for the original Xbox. The chip in the Xbox 360 also was misidentified. It has a Xenon chip, not a Cell processor. And the article also misstated the price of the <classifier idsrc="nyt-classifier" class="Product" type="Product" value="technology::::::http://nytimes.com.com/consoles/sony-playstation-3-60gb/4505-10109_7-31355103.html?tag=api&part=nytimes&subj=re"><alt-code idsrc="nyt-classifier" value="Sony PlayStation">Sony PlayStation</alt-code> 3. The PlayStation 3 starts at $399, not $299.</classifier>

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Lots of gaming news this week:

New boxing game announced by 2K. Coming for Wii and 360 (no PS3 version announced). Created by the same group that made the 'Rocky' video game:

http://2ksports.com/games/prizefighter/

Codemasters is going after P2P downloaders of console games. They are reportedly asking for $1,000 per illegal download.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/12/06/codemasters_file_sharers/

PS3 users will reportedly get a price break on the Lost Planet port. It will be priced at $40. In related news, the upcoming Lost Planet Colonies is scheduled for a simultaneous release on the 360 and PS3.

Big week in Japan for the PS3 as Gran Turismo 5: Prologue is released. In the U.S., Unreal Tournament 3 for the PS3 will finally hit the shelves.

Capcom also announced that a sequel for Zack and Wiki is in the works.

God of War 3 has been officially confirmed for the PS3. Release currently set for early 2009.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

New footage of Little Big Planet shown last night during the 2007 Video Game Awards.

Trailer link:

http://www.psu.com/LittleBigPlanet-VGA-Premiere-Trailer--vid16539.php

[Big Fo]

Lots of gaming news this week:

New boxing game announced by 2K. Coming for Wii and 360 (no PS3 version announced). Created by the same group that made the 'Rocky' video game:

http://2ksports.com/games/prizefighter/

Capcom also announced that a sequel for Zack and Wiki is in the works.


Hopefully the boxing game is good, I'm not a big fan of Don King being in the title though. First time I've seen Wii/360/DS on a multiplatform game while the PlayStation family gets shunned.

Zack and Wiki must not have bombed nearly as hard here as it did in Japan for a sequel to be announced already. My copy of the first game is en route, looking forward to finally trying it out.

[Eaglesfan27]

Bioshock won Game of the Year award from Spike's Video Game Awards:

http://www.gamespot.com/news/6183845.html?action=convert&om_clk=latestnews&tag=latestnews;title;0

[MikeVic]

Bioshock won Game of the Year award from Spike's Video Game Awards:

http://www.gamespot.com/news/6183845.html?action=convert&om_clk=latestnews&tag=latestnews;title;0

Yet Call of Duty 4 beat it for Best Shooter. I will never even be curious about this dumb award show's results anymore.

[MizzouRah]

I thought COD 4 was better than Bioshock, but I'm silly like that.

[MikeVic]

I thought COD 4 was better than Bioshock, but I'm silly like that.

I don't know what the better game is, since I haven't really played either. Just played a demo for Bioshock on computer. But I think it's dumb for a game to lose its category, yet win the overall best game award.

[MizzouRah]

I don't know what the better game is, since I haven't really played either. Just played a demo for Bioshock on computer. But I think it's dumb for a game to lose its category, yet win the overall best game award.

Maybe they thought overall, it was the most complete game as COD 4 is shorter, game wise.

[Eaglesfan27]

Maybe they thought overall, it was the most complete game as COD 4 is shorter, game wise.

That was part of my thoughts on it. Also, maybe they thought the shooter mechanic on COD 4 is better, but the overall game including story, art, voice acting, etc was better done in Bioshock. *shrug*

[MikeVic]

Maybe they thought overall, it was the most complete game as COD 4 is shorter, game wise.

I don't know... I'm thinking something along the lines of:
"The best ice sport this year was hockey, and the best overall sport this year was curling."

How can curling not win its group and still go on to win best sport? It's my own opinion of course.

[Big Fo]

Yet Call of Duty 4 beat it for Best Shooter. I will never even be curious about this dumb award show's results anymore.

Not to mention the Orange Box winning best PC game over both. :D

It's a complete shambles that Super Mario Galaxy wasn't even nominated for the overall prize and confusing to see it listed as an action game, but hey it's GameSpot-affiliated and we all know what kind of credibility they have after the Gerstmann incident so who really cares.

[MJ4H]

It's a complete shambles that Super Mario Galaxy wasn't even nominated for the overall prize

I THINK THE PRIZE WAS ONLY FOR NEXT-GEN GAMES SO THAT WAS PROBABLY WHY

[Big Fo]

In EGM's rumor section this month it says that the new Tecmo Bowl game will be for the PS3/360 and come out in Summer 2008. I know absolutely nothing else about the game but hopefully it turns out good, Madden has become rather stale IMO and these sports games need as much competition as possible.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Bioshock won Game of the Year award from Spike's Video Game Awards:

http://www.gamespot.com/news/6183845.html?action=convert&om_clk=latestnews&tag=latestnews;title;0

Taking nothing away from Bioshock, this award show is more about advertising dollars than anything else.

A blatent example was the 'Innovation Award -- Powered by Dew'. The winner of the award was 'Halo 3'. Couple of points..........

1. Halo 3 is a good game, but it would be one of the last new releases that most people would call 'innovative'.

2. The award was sponsored by Mountain Dew, which was a major corporate sponsor and advertiser of................Halo 3.

I don't think I need to connect the dots any further for you.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

More game announcements and sales numbers. European sales numbers for the week ending December 9th are in. Wii and PS3 both sell 25K more units than the previous week. 360 sold 35K more units than the previous week.

Wii: 269,649
PS3: 195,606
PS2: 170,607
360: 143,621


Xbox 360 will get an exclusive version of 'Front Mission'

Exclusive Square sequel for PS3 in the works (rumored to be a Parasite Eve sequel)

Mass Effect sequels (reportedly 2 more planned) will be published by Microsoft, ensuring that game remains on the 360.

Gears of War 2 will see release in late 2008 or early 2009 with Gears of War 3 already planned for a 2010 release.

Analysts at Economist.com believe that PS3 will surpass the 360 in worldwide consoles sold in late 2008 and pull even with the Wii in 2011.......

http://economist.com/business/displaystory.cfm?story_id=10251308

This week's deal shows how the software business is changing; and things are happening in hardware too. Microsoft's Xbox 360, Sony's PS3 and Nintendo's Wii are fighting for supremacy. In September the Xbox 360, which was launched in late 2005, a year ahead of its two rivals, was overtaken by the Wii as the most popular of the present generation of consoles (see chart). Mr Bach says he is unfazed. “It's not even a statistic I track all that closely,” he says. The Wii's popularity stems from its low price and its innovative motion-sensitive controller, which can be pointed and waved to control the on-screen action and encourages novices to give gaming a try. But the Wii lacks the high-definition graphics of its two rivals, so it could soon start to look dated. The real battle is between the Xbox 360 and the PS3, Mr Bach suggests.

Sales of the PS3, which have been sluggish, seem to have taken off after Sony removed some features and dropped the price. In Japan the PS3 even outsold the Wii in November, according to Enterbrain, a market-research firm. As more games become available for the PS3 next year, sales are expected to rise even further, says Mr Harding-Rolls, so that by 2011 the PS3 will have caught up with the Wii. In short, each of the consoles will be in front at various points in the “console cycle”.

In the previous cycle, dominated by Sony, programmers could address most of the market simply by writing games for the PlayStation 2. But if all the consoles matter, games companies have to produce games that run on all of them. That strengthens the case for consolidation. In other words, expect more deals.

[Bee]

Based on how far off their predictions were from mid 2005, I'm placing the odds of them being right at about 10,000 to 1. :D

[gstelmack]

Analysts at Economist.com believe that PS3 will surpass the 360 in worldwide consoles sold in late 2008 and pull even with the Wii in 2011.......

That's a fun graph, and is based on a HUGE upswing in PS3 sales (just look how steep that line gets at the end of 2007) and a steady-or-declining-slightly 360 sales.

And of course the graph is end-of-year only and says NOTHING about individual month-to-month sales. They aren't predicting "late 2008", they are simply saying "by the end of 2008". And the only numbers on the chart that have any actual fact behind them are the end-of-2006 starting point numbers for each console.

And finally, they are all based on Microsoft and Nintendo doing absolutely nothing over the next few years.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Based on how far off their predictions were from mid 2005, I'm placing the odds of them being right at about 10,000 to 1. :D

Any link to the prediction you mention in 2005? I can't find any predictions from the same analyst during that time frame. The only mention I see from that site during that period is the Microsoft sales estimates, which weren't all that rosy at the time. But those sales estimates were from Microsoft, not this analyst. To be honest, given your logic, Microsoft shouldn't be trusted either. Their estimates were incorrect in 2005 as well (See update on November 1st, 2005).

http://www.screendigest.com/online_services/intelligence/games/updates

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

That's a fun graph, and is based on a HUGE upswing in PS3 sales (just look how steep that line gets at the end of 2007) and a steady-or-declining-slightly 360 sales.

And of course the graph is end-of-year only and says NOTHING about individual month-to-month sales. They aren't predicting "late 2008", they are simply saying "by the end of 2008". And the only numbers on the chart that have any actual fact behind them are the end-of-2006 starting point numbers for each console.

And finally, they are all based on Microsoft and Nintendo doing absolutely nothing over the next few years.

I don't disagree with anything you've stated here. I find it interesting that similar predictions keep coming out in multiple publications. I'd love for someone to ask some of these analysts how they can predict those major upswings in the PS3 sales given that the PS3 is only slightly outselling the 360 worldwide this month and is well behind the Wii in worldwide sales this month. Hell, maybe I'll fire off an e-mail to ask this guy. It's certainly an interesting discussion point.

[wade moore]

I don't disagree with anything you've stated here. I find it interesting that similar predictions keep coming out in multiple publications. I'd love for someone to ask some of these analysts how they can predict those major upswings in the PS3 sales given that the PS3 is only slightly outselling the 360 worldwide this month and is well behind the Wii in worldwide sales this month. Hell, maybe I'll fire off an e-mail to ask this guy. It's certainly an interesting discussion point.

I'll be honest and say I wouldn't be SHOCKED if this all comes to fruition. But, I just don't see where there is evidence right now to claim that it actually WILL happen.

One or two months of upswing after a price decrease without a decrease from your competitors, imo, is not enough to prove a trend.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

I'll be honest and say I wouldn't be SHOCKED if this all comes to fruition. But, I just don't see where there is evidence right now to claim that it actually WILL happen.

One or two months of upswing after a price decrease without a decrease from your competitors, imo, is not enough to prove a trend.

Part of the problem in this case is that we're dealing with inadequate information. In these kinds of articles, we get the basic overview of the analysis with very little of the actual data behind that final analysis overview. They have it all available at the website, but it's a paid data website similar to NPD, so it's tough to get the full information unless your company is one of the groups that subscribes to the data analysis. I'm pretty sure that they don't just go on a month of spiked sales, as they were predicting a 2008 PS3 surge this past summer even before the official price cut, but without the details, it's tough to put the pieces together.

[Bee]

Any link to the prediction you mention in 2005? I can't find any predictions from the same analyst during that time frame. The only mention I see from that site during that period is the Microsoft sales estimates, which weren't all that rosy at the time. But those sales estimates were from Microsoft, not this analyst. To be honest, given your logic, Microsoft shouldn't be trusted either. Their estimates were incorrect in 2005 as well (See update on November 1st, 2005).

http://www.screendigest.com/online_services/intelligence/games/updates

Well, if you don't see the difference between a company predicting their own success and an "independent" company forecast there's not a lot to discuss. But yes, for the record, I generally don't put a lot of stock in any company generated estimates when talking about their own future.

As far as the previous prediction, I saw it on another forum and I'm far to lazy to go find links and such. I only follow this stuff a little because I find your constant spin so hilariously entertaining. :D

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

As far as the previous prediction, I saw it on another forum and I'm far to lazy to go find links and such.

OK, I'll just take your word for it. :rolleyes:

[Bee]

OK, I'll just take your word for it. :rolleyes:

aw shucks...you're questioning my integrity. ouch. :D

It was on quarter to three if you want to go find it yourself. :p

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

aw shucks...you're questioning my integrity. ouch. :D

It was on quarter to three if you want to go find it yourself. :p

I don't question your integrity. I'll take the numbers that were predicted even without a link if that's what it takes. It's just awfully hard to carry on any discussion in relation to your points as you'd prefer to crack jokes rather than produce meaningful discussion.

[Fidatelo]

I don't get why MS doesn't just drop the price another $100 on the 360 and leave Sony in their dust, which would also force Nintendo to make a cut on the Wii.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

I don't get why MS doesn't just drop the price another $100 on the 360 and leave Sony in their dust, which would also force Nintendo to make a cut on the Wii.

I'm not sure they're able to do that right now. They're not making much on the current console as they just dropped the prices to compete with the Sony price drop. They're just now getting to the point where the 360 console is making some money on a per unit sales basis. A price drop would put them back into a loss per unit situation, when they're at a point in the life cycle where they should be able to reduce costs to the point where they make money on the console. Dropping the price $100 would kill any chances of that happening.

The Wii wouldn't need a price cut even if MS did drop the price $100. They're selling every console they can make right now. It's actually hurting them a bit right now because they could sell a whole lot more this holiday season if they weren't so supply constrained. Nintendo has actually cancelled future advertising in all three major regions because they don't need to build any further demand. I'm not sure that they should stop building demand just because supply is exceeded by demand, but we'll have to see what happens.

[IMetTrentGreen]

Yet Call of Duty 4 beat it for Best Shooter. I will never even be curious about this dumb award show's results anymore.

This makes sense to me, somewhat. As a complete package, Bioshock was great. The art design and atmosphere were excellent. As a shooter though? Boring. It added nothing to the genre.

My game of the year would've been Mass Effect or Mario Galaxy, anyhow.

[Synovia]

But the Wii lacks the high-definition graphics of its two rivals, so it could soon start to look dated. The real battle is between the Xbox 360 and the PS3, Mr Bach suggests.

They still don't get it. We live in a world where 60% of HD TVs are running composite feeds. I think the Wii has proven at this point that the HD thing isn't really all that relevant.

[TroyF]

I just finished Call of Duty 4. I've finished Mass Effect. I'm working my way thorugh Super Mario Galaxy.

Outside of RTS games and the Rock Band game, I've played just about everything else at one time or another this year.

Bioshock wins Game of the Year by a wide margain for me. Nothing else has come as close to immersing me in the character or environment.

I liked COD4. It's short, but it's a solid game. Some terrific moments in it. (I loved the chopper sequence in it where you shoot the guys around the church. I will replay that level for kicks)

Still, Bioshock was the more innovative game, the more immersive game, the prettier looking game and had 25x the story.

My overall game of year, console game of the year and 360 game of the year is Bioshock hands down. (and no, I don't have any advertising funding comgin my way) :)

[Fidatelo]

I'm not sure they're able to do that right now. They're not making much on the current console as they just dropped the prices to compete with the Sony price drop. They're just now getting to the point where the 360 console is making some money on a per unit sales basis. A price drop would put them back into a loss per unit situation, when they're at a point in the life cycle where they should be able to reduce costs to the point where they make money on the console. Dropping the price $100 would kill any chances of that happening.

This is Microsoft we're talking about. If there is a company in this world that can afford, and is often willing, to lose a few million to destroy their competition, it is Microsoft.

The Wii wouldn't need a price cut even if MS did drop the price $100. They're selling every console they can make right now. It's actually hurting them a bit right now because they could sell a whole lot more this holiday season if they weren't so supply constrained. Nintendo has actually cancelled future advertising in all three major regions because they don't need to build any further demand. I'm not sure that they should stop building demand just because supply is exceeded by demand, but we'll have to see what happens.

If MS were to drop the 360 by $100, I think the demand for the Wii would drop off quite appreciably. As much as I love my Wii, there is no denying that a lot of its greatness is the "bang for the buck" factor. If you had a 360 sitting next to a Wii for basically the same price, it becomes a harder sell.

[Arles]

I'll be honest and say I wouldn't be SHOCKED if this all comes to fruition. But, I just don't see where there is evidence right now to claim that it actually WILL happen.

One or two months of upswing after a price decrease without a decrease from your competitors, imo, is not enough to prove a trend.
In order for the PS3 to have a chance at catching the 360 by 2009, Blu-Ray needs to become the overall standard by early 2008. If that happens, I know many people (including two in my office right now) who would gladly pay an extra $50-100 to get the PS3 over a normal Blu-Ray player. But, everyone's afraid of putting money in the next "Betamax" until that happens and most people don't play games enough to rationalize a $300-$400 expense on a console-only purchase.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

This is Microsoft we're talking about. If there is a company in this world that can afford, and is often willing, to lose a few million to destroy their competition, it is Microsoft.

It would be much, MUCH more than 'a few million' that they'd lose. A few hundred million would probably be more accurate.

If MS were to drop the 360 by $100, I think the demand for the Wii would drop off quite appreciably. As much as I love my Wii, there is no denying that a lot of its greatness is the "bang for the buck" factor. If you had a 360 sitting next to a Wii for basically the same price, it becomes a harder sell.

They already have a 360 that's basically the same price as the Wii. The Core system (they call it something else now) is priced at $279. $30 isn't much of a difference at all. But it's not selling worth a lick when compared to the Wii or its more expensive 360 cousins. Price isn't everything, especially when the two products differ so much in what they offer.

[Fidatelo]

It would be much, MUCH more than 'a few million' that they'd lose. A few hundred million would probably be more accurate.

I still stand by what I said. MS put like $250 million into < 2% of a stake in Facebook. They risked an entire company restructuring to kill Netscape. They have more money than we can phathom, and they could (and should) be using it to destroy Sony right now.

They already have a 360 that's basically the same price as the Wii. The Core system (they call it something else now) is priced at $279. $30 isn't much of a difference at all. But it's not selling worth a lick when compared to the Wii or its more expensive 360 cousins. Price isn't everything, especially when the two products differ so much in what they offer.

Sorry, but much like you don't consider the Wii "next gen", I don't consider the Core system an Xbox 360.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Sorry, but much like you don't consider the Wii "next gen", I don't consider the Core system an Xbox 360.

In that case, I agree that if they get the Pro (20 GB) version down to $250, the 360 would hack into some of the Wii's market share. But I still don't think they're at a point financially where they can do that.

[Synovia]

If MS were to drop the 360 by $100, I think the demand for the Wii would drop off quite appreciably. As much as I love my Wii, there is no denying that a lot of its greatness is the "bang for the buck" factor. If you had a 360 sitting next to a Wii for basically the same price, it becomes a harder sell.

That argument would hold water if there weren't places selling Wii at a brisk pace at well above retail. The thing has hundreds to thousands of auctions on ebay ending every hour, all at above $400. Walmart/Bestbuy/Etc can't keep the $600 bundle deals in stock.


The bang for the buck is nice, but thats not whats driving sales.

[Fidatelo]

That argument would hold water if there weren't places selling Wii at a brisk pace at well above retail. The thing has hundreds to thousands of auctions on ebay ending every hour, all at above $400. Walmart/Bestbuy/Etc can't keep the $600 bundle deals in stock.


The bang for the buck is nice, but thats not whats driving sales.

This sounds like denying. I said no denying. Someone get this guy some reading glasses :P

[gstelmack]

In that case, I agree that if they get the Pro (20 GB) version down to $250, the 360 would hack into some of the Wii's market share. But I still don't think they're at a point financially where they can do that.

Wii + 2 games + 2 controllers = $400 (and coincidentally, is the bundle I ended up buying, but also fairly common when I checked sites)

360 Pro + 2 games + 2 controllers = $400 (Pro is $350 w/ 2 games included, extra controller is $50)

Wii and Pro 360 ARE the same price right now.

[Synovia]

Wii + 2 games + 2 controllers = $400 (and coincidentally, is the bundle I ended up buying, but also fairly common when I checked sites)

360 Pro + 2 games + 2 controllers = $400 (Pro is $350 w/ 2 games included, extra controller is $50)

Wii and Pro 360 ARE the same price right now.

Wii $249 w/ Wii Sports Included
Extra controller $60 (nunchuck included)
Extra game $49
-------------------
$358.


If you chose Wii Play as the extra game, you're looking at $309 for Wii, 2 games 2 controllers.



You're making my point though: the price isn't whats driving Wii sales.

[Kodos]

I think price is a huge part of the Wii's sales. People who want a 360 don't want the crappy version. If it was a decent version for cheap, people would be scooping it up.

[Synovia]

I think price is a huge part of the Wii's sales. People who want a 360 don't want the crappy version. If it was a decent version for cheap, people would be scooping it up.


My parents bought a Wii. Do you really think my parents would buy a 360 if they were the same price? (which they are)

[Butter]

I think price is a huge part of the Wii's sales. People who want a 360 don't want the crappy version. If it was a decent version for cheap, people would be scooping it up.

This is me. Would've bought a 360 if I could've gotten one with good features for the same as a Wii. As it is, I'm not going to buy a neutered version of the 360 even if it is $149.

[Synovia]

This is me. Would've bought a 360 if I could've gotten one with good features for the same as a Wii. As it is, I'm not going to buy a neutered version of the 360 even if it is $149.

yes, and you're surfing a website for a Text sim football game. You're not exactly the normal gamer (nor am I). What people like us like means relatively little.

What is appealing to the casual/mainstream gamer is NOT the same as whats appealing to the hardcore gamer.

[Kodos]

My parents bought a Wii. Do you really think my parents would buy a 360 if they were the same price? (which they are)

Yes. Yes they would.





I'm talking more about gamers. Casuals are a different story. The novelty effect of the Wii is appealing to them. But someone who plays a lot of games doesn't want a neutered console. So comparing sales of the fully-featured Wii versus a castrated version of the 360 is not a fair basis for saying that price is not driving much of the success of the Wii.

[Synovia]

Yes. Yes they would.





I'm talking more about gamers. Casuals are a different story. The novelty effect of the Wii is appealing to them. But someone who plays a lot of games doesn't want a neutered console. So comparing sales of the fully-featured Wii versus a castrated version of the 360 is not a fair basis for saying that price is not driving much of the success of the Wii.

Why not? The nuetered version of the 360 has more power/more HD outputs(than the wii), etc, and will play all the 360 games. Its nuetered in ways that your average gamer doesnt give a damn about.


You're confusing gamer with hardcore gamer. Your average gamer doesn't own multiple (next gen) consoles. Your average gamer isn't playing games on a 60" LCD. They're playing games on a 27-35" crt.


The Wii isn't winning because of price. Its winning for the same reason Guitar Hero is selling so well: theres nothing else like it.

[MizzouRah]

(I loved the chopper sequence in it where you shoot the guys around the church. I will replay that level for kicks)




That was such a cool level.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Wii $249 w/ Wii Sports Included
Extra controller $60 (nunchuck included)
Extra game $49
-------------------
$358.

If you chose Wii Play as the extra game, you're looking at $309 for Wii, 2 games 2 controllers.

You're making my point though: the price isn't whats driving Wii sales.

Agreed. We could make all kinds of value comparisons between all three consoles to show that the consoles are all priced the same when you add features/games to make the offers comparable. Main point is that the Wii wins on console price alone and also will still sell better if all things were equal regarding price. It's much more than price at this point.

[albionmoonlight]

Sample Size of 1:

I will get a Wii instead of a 360 for Christmas. (PS3 was never really an option due to price and lack of any friends with it).

I think that my decision was based like this:

60% Fear of RROD (maybe rational, maybe not, but my original XBOX has never quite worked right and I did not want to go through another few years of having to worry every time I turned the machine on).

20% thinking that it will appeal to Mrs. A (She is not a gamer anymore because she did not want to have to drop out of grad school to learn button combinations. But I think that she will like some of the Wii games, and it will be fun to play with her.)

20% appeal of the virtual console library and/or the gamecube library (No hassle hardware based BC is a nice touch. And I must say that I am looking forward to playing Super Metroid and SMBIII as much as any Wii game. And, not having had a Nintendo machine since the Super Nintendo, a LOT of games will be very cheap and new to me).

Again, take what you will from a sample size of one. But that's why I made up my mind.

[Daimyo]

I own a Wii and I would have purchased it over an Xbox even if they were the same price. Wii has, or will soon have, the games I want to play (SMG, Zelda, Paper Mario, Power Pros, Metroid, Mario Kart + Virtual Console). The price point was important because I wouldn't pay more than $300 for any gaming console, but it helped in the absolute sense and not the relative sense. I am certainly not a hardcore gamer... i can't imagine buying/playing more than 1 game every month or two.

Wii vs PS3 at the same price would be tough though as the PS3 can do Blu Ray and will eventually have games I'm interested.... but we won't see a $250 PS3 for years so that's academic.

[Synovia]

Wii vs PS3 at the same price would be tough though as the PS3 can do Blu Ray and will eventually have games I'm interested.... but we won't see a $250 PS3 for years so that's academic.


Well, its only $299 if you buy it from sonystyle.com.....

That being said, the big advantage the PS3/360 have over the Wii is shear power, which obviously translates to better graphics/resolution. Unfortunately, 80+% of households don't have HDTVs, and don't give a damn.


I bought a Wii because the only difference between the PS3 and PS2 to me was graphics, and that wasnt going to make a goddamn difference on my 27" sony Trinitron. I have since bought a 42" LCD 1080p Tv, so my decision may have been different, probably not though.

The PS3/360 just dont do anything that the PS2 doesn't do, other than higher resolution. The Wii does something completely different. I'll probably buy a PS3 next year, but Blu-Ray will be as much a part of that decision as the gaming.


If you don't have a 720P or better TV, most of the benefits of the next gen systems don't really matter.

[gstelmack]

That being said, the big advantage the PS3/360 have over the Wii is shear power, which obviously translates to better graphics/resolution.

It can also translate to gameplay and physics (more enemies, more destructible environments), but that is primarily of interest if you are into VR / simulation games (racing, FPS, flight, etc).

[sterlingice]

Not to mention the Orange Box winning best PC game over both. :D

It's a complete shambles that Super Mario Galaxy wasn't even nominated for the overall prize and confusing to see it listed as an action game, but hey it's GameSpot-affiliated and we all know what kind of credibility they have after the Gerstmann incident so who really cares.


FYI: Gamespot had limited credibility before that, even ;)

SI

[sterlingice]

Any link to the prediction you mention in 2005? I can't find any predictions from the same analyst during that time frame. The only mention I see from that site during that period is the Microsoft sales estimates, which weren't all that rosy at the time. But those sales estimates were from Microsoft, not this analyst. To be honest, given your logic, Microsoft shouldn't be trusted either. Their estimates were incorrect in 2005 as well (See update on November 1st, 2005).

http://www.screendigest.com/online_services/intelligence/games/updates

I have to echo that comparing Microsoft's analysis to an "unbiased" 3rd party analysis is hardly fair. Then again, these analyses and a couple of bucks will get you a cup of coffee. I'm pretty sure if I wanted to throw together a couple of powerpoint presentations and excel spreadsheets based on incomplete data, I could publish and claim results as a financial analyst.



http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/39549/Sony_PlayStation_3_Will_Win_Console_War_with_Nintendo_Wii_Finishing_Last_

Hamamura says cost will come down for manufacturing as demand increases, and it will outsell both Wii and Xbox 360 in the long run because of graphics and "rich pool of potentially popular games."

Enterbrain (what a name?!?!) predicts the following results by 2009:
Sony PS3 Sales: 34 million units
Xbox 360 Sales: 28 million units
Nintendo Wii Sales: 25 million units



http://www.gamespot.com/news/6153458.html

Analyst: PS3 could be third
DFC Intelligence says Sony could "easily go from first to worst"; thinks brand strength, market position can't overcome $600 price.



http://www.gamespot.com/news/6163625.html

The firm believes that the PS3 will ultimately carry the largest market share, with 75 million PS3s sold worldwide by 2010. However, the company doesn't expect the PS3 to dominate the new console cycle the same way the PlayStation 2 did last generation, due largely to European "late launch issues" and the head start of the Xbox 360.



http://www.gamespot.com/news/6155912.html

Analyst: PS3 to win next-gen war
The Yankee Group predicts 30 million PS3s, 27 million Xbox 360s, and 11 million Wiis sold in North America by 2011.



http://www.gamespot.com/news/6159876.html

Enterbrain: PS3 will lead Wii by Q4 2007

As a result, Enterbrain predicted that the PS3 will outsell its biggest next-gen rival in Japan, the Nintendo Wii, by the end of next year. However, in the near term, the company believes that the Wii will win out. It predicts that worldwide PS3 sales through the end of March will total 4.13 million units, while the Wii will move 5.47 million units during the same period.


SI

[Mustang]

I only bought a Wii because the end result was that it was free (buy 3, sell 2, keep 1)

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Japanese sales numbers for week ending December 9th:

Wii: 110K
PS3: 38K
PS2: 15K
360: 8K

Nintendo finally got a big boost from Wii Fit in the second week of it's release. Reportedly, lots of Wii's were diverted to Japan this week to take advantage of the Wii Fit rush. 360 sales numbers increased 50% due to the release of Lost Odyssey in Japan. PS3 sales dropped by 4K with no new games available. Release of Gran Turismo 5: Prologue next week should give the PS3 a renewed sales boost (250-300K units expected to sell in first week).

[MikeVic]

So much for the PS3 continually out-selling the Wii until 2009. :)

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

So much for the PS3 continually out-selling the Wii until 2009. :)

Did someone really predict that?

[MikeVic]

Did someone really predict that?

I don't think anyone predicted it, but I thought someone said something about the PS3 out-selling the Wii and 360 by an average of 250k units a month in Japan and Europe in order to catch up by 2009. And then I tried doing the math on it or something? Maybe I'm mistaken. :)

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

I don't think anyone predicted it, but I thought someone said something about the PS3 out-selling the Wii and 360 by an average of 250k units a month in Japan and Europe in order to catch up by 2009. And then I tried doing the math on it or something? Maybe I'm mistaken. :)

I said that the PS3 would catch the 360 worldwide by 2009.

The Wii is a totally different situation. No one has predicted that the PS3 will catch the Wii. The article I posted recently predicted that the PS3 might pull within 5M units by 2011. I find that to be optomistic at best.

[Synovia]

I said that the PS3 would catch the 360 worldwide by 2009.

The Wii is a totally different situation. No one has predicted that the PS3 will catch the Wii. The article I posted recently predicted that the PS3 might pull within 5M units by 2011. I find that to be optomistic at best.



See SterlingICe's post a couple posts back. People most definitely HAVE said the PS3 will catch the Wii.


They're nuts.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

See SterlingICe's post a couple posts back. People most definitely HAVE said the PS3 will catch the Wii.


They're nuts.

All of the articles in his post were articles before the PS3 and Wii were even released. He was posting those to show how predictions can go wrong. Those aren't current predictions.

I do agree with you that both the PS3 and 360 have an uphill climb at best.

[MikeVic]

Ok, sorry, I misinterpreted your post then. :)

[Bee]

I said that the PS3 would catch the 360 worldwide by 2009.

The Wii is a totally different situation. No one has predicted that the PS3 will catch the Wii. The article I posted recently predicted that the PS3 might pull within 5M units by 2011. I find that to be optomistic at best.

From your post yesterday:

says Mr Harding-Rolls, so that by 2011 the PS3 will have caught up with the Wii.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

From your post yesterday:

I stand corrected then. As I said before, I find that to be overly optimistic. I don't think there's any way the PS3 catches the Wii worldwide.

[Big Fo]

Japanese sales numbers for week ending December 9th:



Nintendo finally got a big boost from Wii Fit in the second week of it's release. Reportedly, lots of Wii's were diverted to Japan this week to take advantage of the Wii Fit rush. 360 sales numbers increased 50% due to the release of Lost Odyssey in Japan. PS3 sales dropped by 4K with no new games available. Release of Gran Turismo 5: Prologue next week should give the PS3 a renewed sales boost (250-300K units expected to sell in first week).

SMG sold 20k more than it did last week, good to see that Japan still has some taste. It finally broke a half-million over there, which only took one week to happen in the US.

Wii Fit is now over 400k+ in two weeks and has sold 95% of it's shipment, so that should stay up on the charts for awhile. With Smash Brothers in January and Mario Kart Wii in February or March Wii sales should stay healthy for the next few months.

It's a shame that No More Heroes couldn't do better than 13k in it's first week, hopefully it does better in the West.