Dolphins Fan: What do you want to happen this offseason?

[Kodos]

I guess the best scenario for me would involve Bill Cowher coming in to replace Cameron. Jason Taylor and Zach Thomas would be traded to the Colts so that they'd get a chance to go out as champions. This is all assuming that Huzienga wouldn't sell the team. If he would, that'd be even better.

[stevew]

I pity you if you look at Cowher as a potential saviour for the franchise.

[DeToxRox]

As an outsider, I think the most reasonable outlook for the off season is Miami trading Taylor for a 1st or 2nd, then hoping RB23 is healthy. I'd draft Jake Long #1 and build from the inside out so you put Beck in the best possibile position to win.

I don't know their cap situation but if they can sign some solid players to start for them that's icing on the cake.

I think this is a 3-4 year fix though.

[Dr. Sak]

I think you should get a kick returner to go with the punt returner you got last season. Special teams are 1/3rd of the game!

[rkmsuf]

Jason Taylor is 34. Doubt they get anything like a 1st or 2nd.

[Kodos]

Jason Taylor to the Pats makes too much sense not to happen.


God forbid.

[Kodos]

I pity you if you look at Cowher as a potential saviour for the franchise.

I'd actually prefer Jon Gruden or Mike Shanahan, but Cowher seems to be the best out of who will realistically be available.

[Aylmar]

I don't see Cowher wanting that job. The roster is in shambles. It would be two or three years before he could put the talent together to win on a regular basis. Sure, if he managed to do it, it would be a great feather in his cap, but he'd have to endure two or three years of people saying how he can't win without the support of the Steelers organization and infrastructure. I'm not sure his ego will allow that. No, I think Cowher would want a job similar to the one he got in Pittsburgh. A team with plenty of talent that just needs a new voice to grab their attention...

[MikeVic]

I don't see Cowher wanting that job. The roster is in shambles. It would be two or three years before he could put the talent together to win on a regular basis. Sure, if he managed to do it, it would be a great feather in his cap, but he'd have to endure two or three years of people saying how he can't win without the support of the Steelers organization and infrastructure. I'm not sure his ego will allow that. No, I think Cowher would want a job similar to the one he got in Pittsburgh. A team with plenty of talent that just needs a new voice to grab their attention...

Stay away from the Chargers Cowher!!

[stevew]

Jason Taylor is 34. Doubt they get anything like a 1st or 2nd.

"""

Maybe a 4th that turns into a 3rd, at the very very most.

[Logan]

[dick mode]

One thread about your team isn't enough?

[/dick mode]

[Kodos]

[dick mode]

One thread about your team isn't enough?

[/dick mode]

Tiny dick mode.

[Mustang]

How about 3 new months added between June and July so the 2008 season doesn't start too quickly?

[Toddzilla]

* fire the coach, GM, and personell director
* spend the giant bucks to being in new/fresh faces in the front office
* tear the team apart - trade everyone of value for picks
* rebuild from scratch - draft Matt Ryan / Colt Brennan
* punch Nick Saban in the yam bag

[Maple Leafs]

Here's a thought: don't trade any really good players to the best team in the league.

[Big Fo]

* fire the coach, GM, and personell director
* spend the giant bucks to being in new/fresh faces
* tear the team apart - trade everyone of value for picks
* rebuild from scratch - draft Matt Ryan / Colt Brennan
* punch Nick Saban in the yam bag

Basically this, at least points 1-3 and 5. Oh, and time gets fast-forwarded to 2010.

[Noop]

Trade the number 1 pick for a boatload of picks and draft OL, DL, and DBs. Fire Coach Cam and try to lure a Coach who is known for developing young talent. Then go out and sign the best G.M. in the business.

[Greyroofoo]

So by reading the title of this thread, i can assume there's only one Dolphins fan left?

[Izulde]

1. Get rid of everyone. Players, coaching staff, front office staff, everybody. Hell, an empty cupboard is the only way we don't turn into the Knicks of the NFL.

2. Try and get lots and lots of draft picks, that will be spent by a smart GM. Think Bill Polian would want a shot?

[MikeVic]

How can you get rid of everyone and rebuild, while signing big name free agents at the same time?

[Greyroofoo]

2. Try and get lots and lots of draft picks, that will be spent by a smart GM. Think Bill Polian would want a shot?


YOU KEEP THE DOLPHINS AWAY FROM BILL POLIAN!

[B & B]

Sign Wayne to a lifelong contract. Insist all players wear Isotoner gloves during practice and games. Change mascot to carp or guppie.

[Rizon]

The death of our owner is what I want most.
Followed by the deaths of Cameron and then Mueller.

[Johnny93g]

I dont want Zach or JT to go anywhere. Im a greedy Dolphins fan. I want them to be Dolphins for life.

As for this offseason. There are no quick answers. I am torn between Matt Ryan and Glen Dorsey in the draft right now. It's hard to be sold on Beck the way he has played. Ofcourse he doesnt have a RB right now, and is throwing to Ted Ginn.

[Johnny93g]

The death of our owner is what I want most.
Followed by the deaths of Cameron and then Mueller.

Firing them wouldnt be enough for ya, eh

[MrDNA]

How much has Beck even played?

Who could trade up in the draft and would want to, in order for the Dolphins to trade down?

Just askin'

[RedKingGold]

Get Jason Taylor and Zach Thomas together to make a sequel to "2 Girls, 1 Cup"

[Rizon]

Firing them wouldnt be enough for ya, eh

Firing at them would be ok with me.

[Crapshoot]

I think people underestimate the difficulty of trading down these days - how many teams want to make a rookie the highest payed player (in guarenteed money) in the league? Hell, I'd much rather have a pick at #15 than #1 the way the draft is shaping up.

[14ers]

As an outsider, I think the most reasonable outlook for the off season is Miami trading Taylor for a 1st or 2nd, then hoping RB23 is healthy. I'd draft Jake Long #1 and build from the inside out so you put Beck in the best possibile position to win.
John Beck is not an answer for the Dolphins at QB.

They must draft a QB #1 in this years draft and quit bringing in other teams problem QBs.


Can you demote a head coach to Coordinator? Cameron is signed until 2010 and would cost the dolphins some serious green to fire this year.


***In an alternate reality universe I would love to see the Dolphins sign both Colt Brennan and June Jones!

[Kodos]

***In an alternate reality universe I would love to see the Dolphins sign both Colt Brennan and June Jones!


But which one would start? ;)

[Synovia]

It's hard to be sold on Beck the way he has played.

I don't think the Dolphs should draft a QB this year. Theres absolutely no way to tell what Beck is with the abysmal talent on the rest of the offense. That being said, the fact that he's 26 now, and will be 29 or so when they finally get to the point where they're even close to competitive doesn't make his drafting all that bright.


What worries me about the dolphins is Welker. He was clearly their best receiver, and they wouldn't even give him the $1.8m tender

[rkmsuf]

I don't think the Dolphs should draft a QB this year. Theres absolutely no way to tell what Beck is with the abysmal talent on the rest of the offense. That being said, the fact that he's 26 now, and will be 29 or so when they finally get to the point where they're even close to competitive doesn't make his drafting all that bright.


What worries me about the dolphins is Welker. He was clearly their best receiver, and they wouldn't even give him the $1.8m tender

haven't seen any of beck but I've heard he has zero arm. throws a lolipop. that can't be good combined with his age.

why didn't they tender welker? because they are dumb. same reason they signed trent green.

[Synovia]

haven't seen any of beck but I've heard he has zero arm. throws a lolipop. that can't be good combined with his age.



His arm is fine. He's not Jamarcus Russel, but hes not Brad Johnson/Chad Pennington either.


Theres just no way you can tell what he is at this point. The offensive line play like a bunch of Matadors, and hes getting hit before he can even set his feet.

I agree, they need to rebuild, but the problem is, they need to replace the offensive line, and 2/3 of the defense, and thats going to take 3 years minimum, and at that point, Beck is starting to enter his prime, but hes only going to have a short career.

[rkmsuf]

they have a decent shot a beating the ravens this week

[Synovia]

Here's a thought: don't trade any really good players to the best team in the league.

The patriots aquisition of welker wasn't really a trade. The dolphins gave him the 1.3M/2nd Round RFA tag. The Patriots wanted him, and offered him a contract. The only way the Dolphins can keep him, is if they match the contract, which was reported to have a poision pill clause (something like "if player plays 5 games in miami, entire contract is guaranteed) and the last year of the contract was like $14m. He was gone, and the patriots had to send the dolphins a 2nd rounder.

The "trade" was essentially a 7th rounder for the right to sign Welker without the poison pill, and negotiate with him in a clean environment, instead of the "dolphins can match" hanging over. They basically traded a 7th for extra cap space.

[Synovia]

"I have read speculation that the Patriots would have pursued Welker even if it meant giving up the first. I think it comes down to the Dolphins not valuing Welker as much as other teams were sure to."

I wouldn't have been surprised about the Patriots going after Welker at a 1st and 3rd, considering how Bellichick spoke about him last year. Whats absurd is how little value they(MIA) placed on him when the rest of the NFL clearly felt he had quite a bit more value.


We're talking 1.3M vs 1.8M vs 2.3M for your receiver who caught 67 passes last year, led the league in catch percentage, was your kickoff and punt returner,and is only 26. We're talking that the dolphins weren't willing to give him 1.8M/2.3M, and the Patriots, a team that is usually lambasted for being cheap, give him an $18M contract with $5m guaranteed. Vet minimum is what, 1.3M anyways?


Its not that they got so little for him thats damning, but the clear inability to correctly judge talent/value. Porter is another example of this: clearly declining, and a team that is years away gives him a huge contract.


Whoever is making the personell decisions clearly has no idea what they're doing.

[rkmsuf]

I forgot about Porter. Seems like they thought they could gear up for a run with veterans. How else would you explain signing Green and Porter. How foolish considering their conference and division.

[Kodos]

Whoever is making the personell decisions clearly has no idea what they're doing.

Truer words have never been spoken.

[Synovia]

Seems like they thought they could gear up for a run with veterans.

This is partially hindsight, but thats just more evidence that whoever is running this team has no idea what they're doing. They were 6-10 last year, with a very old team. They had no offensive line, the defense was starting to fall apart, etc. Theres no reason to think that "now is the time"

So they went out and traded for a QB that another team was going to cut after being replaced by a career backup, and signed a OLB from a team that is famous for being able to pretty much plug anyone in at OLB. They basically gave away their best young receiver, and then wasted the number #9 pick in the draft to replace him with a player who will probably never be as good.

[Johnny93g]

Trade for Brady Quinn!!!

What kind of sining bonus did Quinn recieve this year. What would be the cap hit of the Browns trading him. I have read they ready to stick with Anderson next year. I know it is far fetched, but working out a deal for Quinn would be a start to getting back on track. We draft Dorsey at #1(I doubt we could move down in the draft)

That would give us Quinn, Crowder, Brown, and Dorsey. A solid young nucleus to build around.

[Izulde]

I'm not sold on Quinn, to be perfectly honest, so no, I wouldn't want to see a trade for him.

[Atocep]

The Browns have also said they have no problem with Quinn being a backup for the entirety of his contract since he was drafted in the latter half of the 1st round and his cap number isn't too big.

They'll keep Anderson/Quinn for another year, at least, and probably 2.

[Rizon]

I'm not sold on Quinn, to be perfectly honest, so no, I wouldn't want to see a trade for him.

I wasn't from the beginning either. I'm glad the Dolphins didn't pick him. He's going to bust.

[Groundhog]

I wasn't from the beginning either. I'm glad the Dolphins didn't pick him. He's going to bust.

I'd like to see him take a snap before I declare something like that.

[Izulde]

I wasn't from the beginning either. I'm glad the Dolphins didn't pick him. He's going to bust.

Yeah, I think he's going to bust myself and I was prepared to be disgruntled when the Dolphins picked him.

...But when they took Ginn, I went ballistic.

[RendeR]

they have a decent shot a beating the ravens this week



No...no they don't.

[miami_fan]

I don't think there is any chance that the Dolphins pick a QB next year. That would force them to admit that picking Beck and to a smaller degree Ginn was wrong. Also this year's draft was supposedly all about the offense. My hope would be that they use next year's draft to address the massive defensive shortcomings that they should have addressed this year.

[14ers]

I'm not sold on Quinn,
My thoughts exactly, before the 07' college season began.

Now, I am wondering how much of ND's success in 06' was Brady Quinn?

[Synovia]

Yeah, I think he's going to bust myself and I was prepared to be disgruntled when the Dolphins picked him.

...But when they took Ginn, I went ballistic.


Football Outsiders seems to think Quinn was the best QB in that draft, and so far they've been pretty much perfect on picking studs/duds with Dave Lewin's system (basically games started and completion percentage).


Ginn was a bad pick, but WRs not named Randy Moss usually take 2 or 3 years before they're effective.

[RomaGoth]

I guess the best scenario for me would involve Bill Cowher coming in to replace Cameron. Jason Taylor and Zach Thomas would be traded to the Colts so that they'd get a chance to go out as champions. This is all assuming that Huzienga wouldn't sell the team. If he would, that'd be even better.

Cowher is a horrid coach, and the Dolphins would not benefit from him joining them at all. I have been a Dolphins, Steelers, and Lions fan almost my entire life. Cowher did nothing in Pittsburgh to warrant such high praise. He is like Torre with the Yankees, he had good players and a good owner, yet he only won 1 super bowl and only went to 2 of them.

Miami needs to give Cameron another year or 2 to see what he can do as a coach in the NFL. One year is not enough time, especially with the crap he has had to deal with this season. At least they got a 2nd rounder for Chris Chambers.:(

[RomaGoth]

Jason Taylor is 34. Doubt they get anything like a 1st or 2nd.

True, but he is an absolute stud at DE. At 34, he is still one of the top 5 DE's in the NFL. A team like the Colts, Chargers, Packers, and even the Steelers could benefit from a player like Taylor. I doubt the Dolphins could get a 1st round pick for him, but a 2nd rounder is feasible.

[RomaGoth]

I'd actually prefer Jon Gruden or Mike Shanahan, but Cowher seems to be the best out of who will realistically be available.


None of the above. Cowher is way overrated, Shanahan is also overrated, Gruden is a jerk. I suppose Gruden would be ok if we can look past his personality. Realistically, Miami should stick with Cameron for another year or 2 at least to see what he can do. One season does not make a coaching career, especially with the garbage he has to deal with this season.

[st.cronin]

None of the above. Cowher is way overrated, Shanahan is also overrated, Gruden is a jerk. I suppose Gruden would be ok if we can look past his personality. Realistically, Miami should stick with Cameron for another year or 2 at least to see what he can do. One season does not make a coaching career, especially with the garbage he has to deal with this season.

How many coaches currently in the NFL are better than Cowher? All of them? Half of them? More than one?

[Synovia]

Cowher is a horrid coach, and the Dolphins would not benefit from him joining them at all. I have been a Dolphins, Steelers, and Lions fan almost my entire life. Cowher did nothing in Pittsburgh to warrant such high praise. He is like Torre with the Yankees, he had good players and a good owner, yet he only won 1 super bowl and only went to 2 of them.

Miami needs to give Cameron another year or 2 to see what he can do as a coach in the NFL. One year is not enough time, especially with the crap he has had to deal with this season. At least they got a 2nd rounder for Chris Chambers.:(


I don't understand all the Angst about Cameron. He's only been here a year, and the team was awful before him. They've got one star on offense (r. Brown) and one or two players on defense who are respectable (and are going to be around when the team is competitive again). This team needs a full rebuild, and swapping coaches every year isnt going to help.



The dolphins got way more than they should have trading Chambers. He's had the lowest catch rate in the nfl for the last 4 years. He's like a WR with 0 avoid drops, 0 adjust to the ball, and 100 route running. Tons of targets, mediocre stats.

[DaddyTorgo]

True, but he is an absolute stud at DE. At 34, he is still one of the top 5 DE's in the NFL. A team like the Colts, Chargers, Packers, and even the Steelers could benefit from a player like Taylor. I doubt the Dolphins could get a 1st round pick for him, but a 2nd rounder is feasible.

not to rip on you, but you're out of your mind.

The Raiders got a 4th for Randy Moss. Who is younger, and plays a harder-to-fill position.

given you can counter with "well randy had character issues and concerns." but then i counter with "but he is younger and plays a harder-to-fill with equivelent talent" position.

the fins would have to be satisfied with a 4th for Taylor. MAYBE a third depending on who they draft with. You're dreaming if you think they get a 2nd.

[DaddyTorgo]

The dolphins got way more than they should have trading Chambers. He's had the lowest catch rate in the nfl for the last 4 years. He's like a WR with 0 avoid drops, 0 adjust to the ball, and 100 route running. Tons of targets, mediocre stats.


HAHAHA...well said

[MikeVic]

I like Cowher. Great motivator.

[RomaGoth]

How many coaches currently in the NFL are better than Cowher? All of them? Half of them? More than one?

I am not sure how many are better, probably not very many. That is more of a reflection on how bad NFL coaching is than on how good Cowher is. Only 2 super bowls with one win in 15 years or something is not that great. Who cares if he won 10 games nearly every year? Super Bowls are what matters, and Cowher did not deliver. With that being said, there probably are not many coaches in the NFL whom are better than him. It is a sad state of affairs:

Tony Dungy - Colts
Bill Belichek - Patriots
Mike Holmgren - Seahawks
Jon Gruden - Buccaneers
Andy Reid - Eagles
Mike McCarthy - Packers
Jeff Fisher - Titans
Jack Del Rio - Jaguars

A few others are decent but unproven (Lane Kiffin - Raiders, Ken Whisenhut - Cardinals, Mike Tomlin - Steelers).

[Synovia]

The Raiders got a 4th for Randy Moss. Who is younger, and plays a harder-to-fill position.

WR is a harder to fill position than DE? Since when?


The NFL obviously disagrees (based on cap numbers)

[rkmsuf]

How many coaches currently in the NFL are better than Cowher? All of them? Half of them? More than one?

what better?

better
belichick
dungy
del rio
fisher
phillips?
mccarthy
holmgren



push
jauron
tomlin
crennel
kubiak
shannahannamontana
edwards
coughlin
reid
fox
gruden
payton
childress
marinara
whisenhunt



cowher better
cameron
mangina
lewis
bilick
kiffin
turner
gibbs
ghost of petrino
smith
nolan
linehan

[Kodos]

Look, I suffered through Cameron for years at IU. He needs to be fired NOW from the Dolphins. He is not head coach material.

[MikeVic]

I am not sure how many are better, probably not very many. That is more of a reflection on how bad NFL coaching is than on how good Cowher is. Only 2 super bowls with one win in 15 years or something is not that great. Who cares if he won 10 games nearly every year? Super Bowls are what matters, and Cowher did not deliver. With that being said, there probably are not many coaches in the NFL whom are better than him. It is a sad state of affairs:

Tony Dungy - Colts
Bill Belichek - Patriots
Mike Holmgren - Seahawks
Jon Gruden - Buccaneers
Andy Reid - Eagles
Mike McCarthy - Packers
Jeff Fisher - Titans
Jack Del Rio - Jaguars

A few others are decent but unproven (Lane Kiffin - Raiders, Ken Whisenhut - Cardinals, Mike Tomlin - Steelers).

Good luck getting one of these guys as your coach. If all you care about are Super Bowl wins, why are some of those guys even mentioned? And how are Kiffin, Whisenhut, and Tomlin even in the discussion?? You're bat-shit crazy.

[DaddyTorgo]

WR is a harder to fill position than DE? Since when?


The NFL obviously disagrees (based on cap numbers)


with an equivelent-caliber player. there are many more "Jason Taylor" -esque players in the league then there are "Randy Moss" -esque players

[MikeVic]

what better?



push
shannahannamontana


I watch that sometimes.

[RomaGoth]

WR is a harder to fill position than DE? Since when?


The NFL obviously disagrees (based on cap numbers)

I agree. A typical NFL team carries as many as 8 Wide Receivers, but usually only 4, maybe 5 Defensive Ends on the roster.

[Oilers9911]

Yeah, I think he's going to bust myself and I was prepared to be disgruntled when the Dolphins picked him.

...But when they took Ginn, I went ballistic.

It sucks when disgruntled is a huge step forward doesn't it? :)

[RomaGoth]

what better?

better
belichick
dungy
del rio
fisher
phillips?
mccarthy
holmgren



push
jauron
tomlin
crennel
kubiak
shannahannamontana
edwards
coughlin
reid
fox
gruden
payton
childress
marinara
whisenhunt



cowher better
cameron
mangina
lewis
bilick
kiffin
turner
gibbs
ghost of petrino
smith
nolan
linehan


LOL - ghost of petrino

[DaddyTorgo]

I agree. A typical NFL team carries as many as 8 Wide Receivers, but usually only 4, maybe 5 Defensive Ends on the roster.

i disagree. of those WR's...only 3 will see a decent % of the snaps on MOST teams.

the other 5 are practice team / kickoff team type guys. And of those 3, there's only one #1. Where with DE's you have teams that carry 2 pro-bowl caliber DE's, and teams like the Pats where they have 3-4 starting-caliber guys.

[Synovia]

with an equivelent-caliber player. there are many more "Jason Taylor" -esque players in the league then there are "Randy Moss" -esque players

Thats because Randy Moss is a singular talent. It has nothing to do with wide receivers as a whole.


And No, there aren't a lot of Jason Tayloresque players arount. Theres pretty much no one like him: as big as a DE, fast and agile enough to be a linebacker. Adalius Thomas is the closest thing, and hes making $8m a year.


Defensive Ends make more money than Wide Receivers. That means they're more valuable.

[DaddyTorgo]

Thats because Randy Moss is a singular talent. It has nothing to do with wide receivers as a whole.


And No, there aren't a lot of Jason Tayloresque players arount. Theres pretty much no one like him: as big as a DE, fast and agile enough to be a linebacker. Adalius Thomas is the closest thing, and hes making $8m a year.


Defensive Ends make more money than Wide Receivers. That means they're more valuable.

you just argued that randy moss was a singular talent and then basically said that jason taylor was too. correct? so normal "rules" should not necessarily apply to them.

that being said...you think the LOLphins get more for Taylor at 34 years old then the Raiders got for Moss at 30?

I'd take that bet anyday.

[Synovia]

i
the other 5 are practice team / kickoff team type guys. And of those 3, there's only one #1. Where with DE's you have teams that carry 2 pro-bowl caliber DE's, and teams like the Pats where they have 3-4 starting-caliber guys.

Teams like the Pats also carry 4-5 starting quality WRs. Teams like the Broncos don't carry a single Starting Quality DE.

A good DE makes more of a difference (and is worth more) than a good WR. Randy Moss is a game changing talent, like Reggie White.

[RomaGoth]

Good luck getting one of these guys as your coach. If all you care about are Super Bowl wins, why are some of those guys even mentioned? And how are Kiffin, Whisenhut, and Tomlin even in the discussion?? You're bat-shit crazy.

I may be crazy, but I ain't no bat-shit crazy :cool: .

Whisenhut has done pretty well with a pathetic, injury riddled Cardinals team. The same with Kiffin, although to a lesser degree. Tomlin has only gone 9-4 in his first season. Yes, the Steelers have talent, but teams don't just win with talent, it takes coaching too. If it didn't, Petrino would be preparing for the playoffs right now instead of jumping ship to Arkansas.

As for the other coaches, I was not looking to get one of them as a coach, I was only listing the ones I feel are better than Cowher.

[Synovia]

you just argued that randy moss was a singular talent and then basically said that jason taylor was too. correct? so normal "rules" should not necessarily apply to them.

that being said...you think the LOLphins get more for Taylor at 34 years old then the Raiders got for Moss at 30?

I'd take that bet anyday.

That I don't know. Randy is a once in a generation talent. Taylor is an extremely good player, but theres only a handful of teams that could use a 34 year old hybrid DE/OLB... the Steelers and Pats are the only teams I can think of. Nobody else has that same scheme and is close enough to a superbow that they'd trade for a 35 year old player.

Everyone could use a 30 year old WR.


If we were talking a 34 year old Dwight Freeney, I'd take that bet any day of the week.

[DaddyTorgo]

If we were talking a 34 year old Dwight Freeney, I'd take that bet any day of the week.


Really?

[rkmsuf]

57 year old ditka is the one I'd take

[Synovia]

Whisenhut has done pretty well with a pathetic, injury riddled Cardinals team. The same with Kiffin, although to a lesser degree. Tomlin has only gone 9-4 in his first season. Yes, the Steelers have talent, but teams don't just win with talent, it takes coaching too. If it didn't, Petrino would be preparing for the playoffs right now instead of jumping ship to Arkansas.

The falcons aren't in the playoffs because the team has no defense, no quarterback, and an offensive line that is built to zone block and is being asked to man-block.

Its got very little to do with coaching.


The steelers won a superbowl 2 years ago, and went 8-8 last year without their starting QB. I think their record this year has very little to do with coaching, and everything to do with talent.

If you want to say that Tomlin is doing a great job because the steelers are 9-4, then Norv Turner is doing a great job with the Chargers at 8-5. The teams have similar talent, and similar records.

[RomaGoth]

you just argued that randy moss was a singular talent and then basically said that jason taylor was too. correct? so normal "rules" should not necessarily apply to them.

that being said...you think the LOLphins get more for Taylor at 34 years old then the Raiders got for Moss at 30?

I'd take that bet anyday.

The Raiders have proven that they are just as stupid as Miami in regards to personnel moves. Raiders gave up Moss for a 4th round pick, Dolphins essentially let Wes Welker go for nothing. Both of those players are worth way more than the end cost to the Patriots. The same is true for Jason Taylor. He is a top talent at a usually thin position in the NFL. How many DE's in the NFL are better than him, even right now? Not many. Miami can draft a wide receiver in the first few rounds that could be a game-changer, but try doing that with a DE and it just doesn't happen? Who is the last star DE that didn't come in the first 2 rounds of the draft? Randy Moss is a game changing WR, just as Jason Taylor is at DE. Across the board, DE is a harder position to fill than WR.

[DaddyTorgo]

poll posted

[RomaGoth]

The falcons aren't in the playoffs because the team has no defense, no quarterback, and an offensive line that is built to zone block and is being asked to man-block.

Its got very little to do with coaching.


The steelers won a superbowl 2 years ago, and went 8-8 last year without their starting QB. I think their record this year has very little to do with coaching, and everything to do with talent.

If you want to say that Tomlin is doing a great job because the steelers are 9-4, then Norv Turner is doing a great job with the Chargers at 8-5. The teams have similar talent, and similar records.

Not true. The Steelers were not expected to be quite as successful as they have been so far this year. The Chargers, on the other hand, went 14-2 last year and were expected to go to the super bowl this year. A Chargers team at 8-5 is a disappointment, while a Steelers team at 9-4 is somewhat of a surprise considering the coaching change and loss of a star LB (Porter), albeit he is on a decline.

[Synovia]

The Raiders have proven that they are just as stupid as Miami in regards to personnel moves. Raiders gave up Moss for a 4th round pick, Dolphins essentially let Wes Welker go for nothing.

I don't think the Raiders did so badly in that.


Moss said he'd only renegotiate for the Patriots, so they were looking at trading (what appeared to be) a bad receiver with an $11M cap hit. He obviously wasn't going to play for the Raiders, so without the trade to the Pats, chances are he would have been cut.

[Synovia]

Not true. The Steelers were not expected to be quite as successful as they have been so far this year. The Chargers, on the other hand, went 14-2 last year and were expected to go to the super bowl this year. A Chargers team at 8-5 is a disappointment, while a Steelers team at 9-4 is somewhat of a surprise considering the coaching change and loss of a star LB (Porter), albeit he is on a decline.


The Steelers weren't expected to be good this year? By who? They were bad last year for the sole reason that Roethlisburger was hurt the whole year. Anyone who didn't expect them to win a couple more games is ridiculous.

[ISiddiqui]

The Steelers weren't expected to be good this year? By who? They were bad last year for the sole reason that Roethlisburger was hurt the whole year. Anyone who didn't expect them to win a couple more games is ridiculous.

Quickest I could find:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/preview07/news/story?id=2984130

It seems that only 5 out of the 16 ESPN experts thought the Steelers would make the playoffs and all but 1 thought it'd be as the Wild Card.

[RomaGoth]

Who is a bigger disaster, Cameron or Isiah?

hxxp://sportsyenta.blogspot.com/2007/12/tale-of-tape-cam-vs-zeke.html

Isiah is hands-down, the worst GM of any team, in any league, in history.:o

[Synovia]

Quickest I could find:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/preview07/news/story?id=2984130

It seems that only 5 out of the 16 ESPN experts thought the Steelers would make the playoffs and all but 1 thought it'd be as the Wild Card.


You do realize that almost all of the ESPN "experts" picked all of last years division winners to win their divisions this year, right?

[RomaGoth]

Quickest I could find:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/preview07/news/story?id=2984130

It seems that only 5 out of the 16 ESPN experts thought the Steelers would make the playoffs and all but 1 thought it'd be as the Wild Card.

Thank you for validating my argument. As I stated earlier, most people thought the Steelers were finished because:

1) Ben Roethlesberger was "overrated" (obviously not true)
2) A coaching change would doom the team (obviously not true)
3) Last year's 8-8 record was a sign of things to come (not true)

With a rookie coach, the Steelers will better last year's record even if they lose their remaining 3 games (unlikely).

[Synovia]

With a rookie coach, the Steelers will better last year's record even if they lose their remaining 3 games (unlikely).

With a Rookie coach and a healthy quarterback.


Kind of like the Jets last year. The difference between an good healthy starting QB and a fungible backup is 4 or 5 games a year.

[RomaGoth]

With a Rookie coach and a healthy quarterback.


Kind of like the Jets last year. The difference between an good healthy starting QB and a fungible backup is 4 or 5 games a year.

Very true.

[Atocep]

The Steelers weren't expected to be good this year? By who? They were bad last year for the sole reason that Roethlisburger was hurt the whole year. Anyone who didn't expect them to win a couple more games is ridiculous.

I think most, including the guys at Football Outsiders, had the Steelers as a borderline playoff team.

Pro Football Prospectus had their 2007 Mean Projection at 9.1 wins, Baltimore at 9.0, and Cincinatti at 8.7 so they basically saw the division as a toss up. So I wouldn't say they were expected to be bad, but I wouldn't call that good either. Considering they were coming into the season with a rookie head coach, I can understand the pessimism.

[Synovia]

I think most, including the guys at Football Outsiders, had the Steelers as a borderline playoff team.

Pro Football Prospectus had their 2007 Mean Projection at 9.1 wins, Baltimore at 9.0, and Cincinatti at 8.7 so they basically saw the division as a toss up. So I wouldn't say they were expected to be bad, but I wouldn't call that good either. Considering they were coming into the season with a rookie head coach, I can understand the pessimism.
Ending up as an 11-5 to 12-4 team seems fully within standard deviation of 9.1. The 9.1 was based on the assumption that Baltimore wouldn't lose McNair for almost the entire season, and fall into suck. Two more wins in the division because of that....




FO also doesn't account for Roethlisburger being healthy, and gave them a severe penalty in their predictions for a new coach.

[Big Fo]

Aww man, I saw that this thread had about 40 more posts since lunchtime, I came in expecting that the OP had finally snapped and murdered Wayne Huizenga or that Cam Cameron had resigned or something. Oh well.

[RomaGoth]

Aww man, I saw that this thread had about 40 more posts since lunchtime, I came in expecting that the OP had finally snapped and murdered Wayne Huizenga or that Cam Cameron had resigned or something. Oh well.

LOL - Huizenga is attempting to murder the Dolphin franchise much like he did to Blockbuster Video. Trade Ricky Williams for a 7th round pick and a song!!!

[Rizon]

LOL - Huizenga is attempting to murder the Dolphin franchise much like he did to Blockbuster Video. Trade Ricky Williams for a 7th round pick and a song!!!

Attempting? He already has.

[larrymcg421]

What do I want to happen this offseason? I want someone to wake me up and tell me that the last 10 years were a nightmare and that Huizenga is stupid but he'd never be stupid enough to hire a sub-.500 college coach to run an NFL team and that Jimmy has just taken Randy Moss in the 1st round.

[Vinatieri for Prez]

As a Pats fan, I heartily endorse Cam Cameron to remain as Dolphins coach for the next decade.

As for Taylor, one can argue in his favor all you want, but he is too old for any team to pay a high price in picks. Over the years I have noticed that youth as much as talent plays a big role in trade value. Nobody wants to shell out a high pick for a guy that will only contribute maybe for another year or two (but usually want a renegotiated contract well beyond his "sell by" date).

[astrosfan64]

I am not sure how many are better, probably not very many. That is more of a reflection on how bad NFL coaching is than on how good Cowher is. Only 2 super bowls with one win in 15 years or something is not that great. Who cares if he won 10 games nearly every year? Super Bowls are what matters, and Cowher did not deliver. With that being said, there probably are not many coaches in the NFL whom are better than him. It is a sad state of affairs:

Tony Dungy - Colts
Bill Belichek - Patriots
Mike Holmgren - Seahawks
Jon Gruden - Buccaneers
Andy Reid - Eagles
Mike McCarthy - Packers
Jeff Fisher - Titans
Jack Del Rio - Jaguars

A few others are decent but unproven (Lane Kiffin - Raiders, Ken Whisenhut - Cardinals, Mike Tomlin - Steelers).

Ok, you are making 0 sense. You say the point to measure them by is Superbowls.

Yet Andy Reid has only been to 1 and lost.
Mike McCarth has been to zero.
Jeff Fisher has been to one and lost.
Del Rio been to zero.
Dungy has been to one.
Homgren has been to 3 but has lost 2 of them.

[Toddzilla]

Um, Jeff Fisher stinks. Seriously, what about his record and playoff history makes people think this guy is a decent coach?

[Kodos]

He came up a yard short in a Super Bowl?

[RomaGoth]

As a Pats fan, I heartily endorse Cam Cameron to remain as Dolphins coach for the next decade.

As for Taylor, one can argue in his favor all you want, but he is too old for any team to pay a high price in picks. Over the years I have noticed that youth as much as talent plays a big role in trade value. Nobody wants to shell out a high pick for a guy that will only contribute maybe for another year or two (but usually want a renegotiated contract well beyond his "sell by" date).


Very good points. I would guess that Taylor has 2-3 years left, and probably 1 or 2 after that where he should have retired already. Either way, if I was close to a super bowl, (i.e. San Diego, Indianapolis, Green Bay), I would consider picking up a guy like Taylor because all you need him for is 2-3 more years. At that point, a guy like Favre will retire anyway (if not sooner) and your window has closed again to win a super bowl.

[RomaGoth]

Ok, you are making 0 sense. You say the point to measure them by is Superbowls.

Yet Andy Reid has only been to 1 and lost.
Mike McCarth has been to zero.
Jeff Fisher has been to one and lost.
Del Rio been to zero.
Dungy has been to one.
Homgren has been to 3 but has lost 2 of them.


I see your point. Perhaps I should explain it differently. Most of the people whom love Bill Cowher are saying "oh wow, he got us a super bowl win". So what???? For as long as he coached in Pittsburgh, he only won 1 freaking super bowl and lost the other one he went to. Let me compare the other coaches again:

Andy Reid = 1 super bowl (lost) - true, but he is arguably in one of the most difficult cities to coach a sports team in. He has, however, underachieved.

Mike McCarthy = 0 super bowls - true, but he has only been the coach in Green Bay for 2 years (including this one). Considering that, he has done an excellent job so far, especially with little to no running game.

Jeff Fisher = 1 super bowl (lost) - true, but he has done a decent job with a team that is not a major sports market for pro sports.

Jack Del Rio = 0 super bowl - true, he has also done a decent job in a small market area, and he is still pretty young for a coach.

Tony Dungy = 1 super bowl (won) - true, he is a good coach whom does not get the credit he deserves for turning Tampa Bay around. Gruden is a good coach, but Dungy is the reason that Tampa team won the super bowl.

Mike Holmgren = 3 super bowls (1 win, 2 losses) - true, but how many current or recent coaches have been to 3 super bowls? Bill Belichek, and who else?

So, yes you are correct in that I was making no sense. I will place less emphasis on super bowl wins over a shorter career, but more on a longer career and other factors, such as where the team is located, the market size, and the ownership. Bill Cowher underachieved in Pittsburgh. He had some awesome defenses and a decent offense most of the time he was there, yet he barely won 1 super bowl. I guarantee if he goes to Miami he will fail miserably and retire again. Of course, Miami right now is a giant cesspool as a pro franchise. So I digress......:D

[jeheinz72]

Here's what I'd like to see

1) Fire Cameron. There's just no saving it.

2) Surprisingly, and I'm sure people will rip this, hire Marty Schottenheimer. I don't think Cowher is that great and I don't think he'd take the Fins gig anyhow. Marty will be available and at the very least has proven proficient at getting to the playoffs. At this point, I'll take that. Baby steps.

3) Deal Taylor for a 3rd that can get bumped to a 2nd in the '09 draft. Someone will bite on that.

4) Draft Long, Long or Dorsey with the #1. Not a QB in the first or 2nd, look to fill that in maybe the 5th-ish round.

5) Continue to draft O and D-Line with at least 2 of our 3 2nd rounders, with the 3rd 2nd rounder being a WR

6) Fire Mueller so there is a slim chance that we'll have a GM who could implement any kind of plan to improve the team

[Toddzilla]

Fisher is 14 games over .500 in 14 years as a head coach, so he may not stink, but he's not good.

[RomaGoth]

Here's what I'd like to see

1) Fire Cameron. There's just no saving it.

2) Surprisingly, and I'm sure people will rip this, hire Marty Schottenheimer. I don't think Cowher is that great and I don't think he'd take the Fins gig anyhow. Marty will be available and at the very least has proven proficient at getting to the playoffs. At this point, I'll take that. Baby steps.

3) Deal Taylor for a 3rd that can get bumped to a 2nd in the '09 draft. Someone will bite on that.

4) Draft Long, Long or Dorsey with the #1. Not a QB in the first or 2nd, look to fill that in maybe the 5th-ish round.

5) Continue to draft O and D-Line with at least 2 of our 3 2nd rounders, with the 3rd 2nd rounder being a WR

6) Fire Mueller so there is a slim chance that we'll have a GM who could implement any kind of plan to improve the team

Nice. As a lifelong Dolphin fan, I agree with most of your ideas. I agree that Schottenheimer would be a decent choice. However, "Marty-ball" does not appeal to me all that much, so I would be wary of him being there too long. Here is what I think the Dolphins need to do:

1) Huizenga sells the team to someone who cares about winning and is competent.

2) Huizenga mysteriously disappears (if #1 is not fulfilled).
3) Hire a GM whom knows how to evaluate talent and can draft well
4) Release or trade many (if not most) of the current roster. Dump Trent Green and most of the offensive line.
5) Draft OL & DL, fill holes in the secondary, and obtain at least one young, decent LB to take over for Thomas
6) Trade Jason Taylor for 2nd or 3rd rounder
7) Be patient with the rebuilding process, instead of freaking out every year and dumping players/coaches (Wes Welker???)

[RomaGoth]

Fisher is 14 games over .500 in 14 years as a head coach, so he may not stink, but he's not good.

True, but considering what he has had to work with in Tennessee, I would say he has not been too bad. Steve McNair in his prime aside, whom else has Fisher had to work with? Vince Young is still too new to the league (and a train wreck right now as well) to even consider as part of the equation.

I agree that he is not a great coach, but I don't think he is a bad coach either. I don't even like the Titans, but I would take Fisher as the coach of Miami anytime. :)

[Aylmar]

True, but considering what he has had to work with in Tennessee, I would say he has not been too bad. Steve McNair in his prime aside, whom else has Fisher had to work with? Vince Young is still too new to the league (and a train wreck right now as well) to even consider as part of the equation.

I agree that he is not a great coach, but I don't think he is a bad coach either. I don't even like the Titans, but I would take Fisher as the coach of Miami anytime. :)

But Cowher only had Neil O'Donnell (whom he rode to two straight AFCC games and a Super Bowl appearance) and then finally Ben Roethlisberger (15-1, Super Bowl Championship, and then 8-8 after Ben almost died in the offseason). So you can't start throwing out "who does he have". Cowher's football philosophy is fantastic in the regular season. Run the ball, play great defense, control the game. In the playoffs, though, it all comes down to quarterbacks. If you ask me, the amount of success he actually had with Kordell Stewart as his starter was great. When he actually had a quarterback to lead the team, Cowher was just fine. Fisher is another one of those guys. With talent, he will get you wins. With talent and a good quarterback, he's good enough to win it all. What was Belichick before Brady? Oh yeah, a coach who was terrible in Cleveland and had a decent team in New England. Now that he has Brady? Super genius.

[astrosfan64]

I see your point. Perhaps I should explain it differently. Most of the people whom love Bill Cowher are saying "oh wow, he got us a super bowl win". So what???? For as long as he coached in Pittsburgh, he only won 1 freaking super bowl and lost the other one he went to. Let me compare the other coaches again:

Andy Reid = 1 super bowl (lost) - true, but he is arguably in one of the most difficult cities to coach a sports team in. He has, however, underachieved.

Mike McCarthy = 0 super bowls - true, but he has only been the coach in Green Bay for 2 years (including this one). Considering that, he has done an excellent job so far, especially with little to no running game.

Jeff Fisher = 1 super bowl (lost) - true, but he has done a decent job with a team that is not a major sports market for pro sports.

Jack Del Rio = 0 super bowl - true, he has also done a decent job in a small market area, and he is still pretty young for a coach.

Tony Dungy = 1 super bowl (won) - true, he is a good coach whom does not get the credit he deserves for turning Tampa Bay around. Gruden is a good coach, but Dungy is the reason that Tampa team won the super bowl.

Mike Holmgren = 3 super bowls (1 win, 2 losses) - true, but how many current or recent coaches have been to 3 super bowls? Bill Belichek, and who else?

So, yes you are correct in that I was making no sense. I will place less emphasis on super bowl wins over a shorter career, but more on a longer career and other factors, such as where the team is located, the market size, and the ownership. Bill Cowher underachieved in Pittsburgh. He had some awesome defenses and a decent offense most of the time he was there, yet he barely won 1 super bowl. I guarantee if he goes to Miami he will fail miserably and retire again. Of course, Miami right now is a giant cesspool as a pro franchise. So I digress......:D


BTW I think all the coaches listed above are good coaches. But more for the reasons you listed.

Just and FYI though, Pittsburgh is a small market. THey are football fanatic, but still a small market.

Small market in football doesn't really matter though. In baseball it matters, football not so much.

[Rizon]

Some coaches I would prefer over Cameron:

Joe Bugel
Bill Callahan
Dom Capers
Pete Carroll
Bruce Coslet
Dennis Erickson
Jerry Glanville
Richie Kotite
Steve Mariuci
Spongebob Squarepants
Bobby Petrino
Ray Rhodes
Mike Riley
Nick Saban
David Shula
Steve Spurrier
Vince Tobin
Bill Walsh (even though he is dead, RIP)
Mike White
Mamma Yo

[stevew]

http://www.kare11.com/assetpool/images/06101711437_green-tirad-hd.jpg


Here's your saviour boys....

[Atocep]

Why do people think Andy Reid has underachieved in Philly?

[Rizon]

http://www.kare11.com/assetpool/images/06101711437_green-tirad-hd.jpg


Here's your saviour boys....

Well, when he fails, at least we can say he is who we thought he was.

[astrosfan64]

Why do people think Andy Reid has underachieved in Philly?

I don't. I personally thing that Reid and Jim Johnson are arguably the best 1, 2 punch in football. They really have dominated the East over the years and built a solid program. People are crazy if they want to get rid of Reid in Philly.

[RomaGoth]

But Cowher only had Neil O'Donnell (whom he rode to two straight AFCC games and a Super Bowl appearance) and then finally Ben Roethlisberger (15-1, Super Bowl Championship, and then 8-8 after Ben almost died in the offseason). So you can't start throwing out "who does he have". Cowher's football philosophy is fantastic in the regular season. Run the ball, play great defense, control the game. In the playoffs, though, it all comes down to quarterbacks. If you ask me, the amount of success he actually had with Kordell Stewart as his starter was great. When he actually had a quarterback to lead the team, Cowher was just fine. Fisher is another one of those guys. With talent, he will get you wins. With talent and a good quarterback, he's good enough to win it all. What was Belichick before Brady? Oh yeah, a coach who was terrible in Cleveland and had a decent team in New England. Now that he has Brady? Super genius.


I can't argue those points. I have always felt Cowher was overrated. Maybe I expected more than one super bowl from him in 15 years....meh.
:cool:

[RomaGoth]

Some coaches I would prefer over Cameron:

Joe Bugel
Bill Callahan
Dom Capers
Pete Carroll
Bruce Coslet
Dennis Erickson
Jerry Glanville
Richie Kotite
Steve Mariuci
Spongebob Squarepants
Bobby Petrino
Ray Rhodes
Mike Riley
Nick Saban
David Shula
Steve Spurrier
Vince Tobin
Bill Walsh (even though he is dead, RIP)
Mike White
Mamma Yo


LMAO. Spongebob Squarepants would be an excellent choice. At the very least, he could swim with the team mascot during halftime.

Some of these other choices are questionable, however. Joe Bugel??? Already had Nick Saban, and he is 1/3 of the reason Miami is where they are now (1/3 Huizenga, 1/3 Saban, 1/3 Ricky Williams).

[RomaGoth]

http://www.kare11.com/assetpool/images/06101711437_green-tirad-hd.jpg


Here's your saviour boys....

Nice. What? 0-16. The Dolphins are who we thought they were. But we let them off the hook. If you want to crown their ass, then crown their ass.

sigh. :rolleyes:

[RomaGoth]

I don't. I personally thing that Reid and Jim Johnson are arguably the best 1, 2 punch in football. They really have dominated the East over the years and built a solid program. People are crazy if they want to get rid of Reid in Philly.

I would take Reid in Pittsburgh or Detroit. He has been excellent in Philly. He fell off a branch in the Mike Holmgren tree......

[Kodos]

LMAO. Spongebob Squarepants would be an excellent choice. At the very least, he could swim with the team mascot during halftime.

Some of these other choices are questionable, however. Joe Bugel??? Already had Nick Saban, and he is 1/3 of the reason Miami is where they are now (1/3 Huizenga, 1/3 Saban, 1/3 Ricky Williams).


Don't forget Mueller.

[RomaGoth]

Don't forget Mueller.

Thanks ;) . I couldn't remember the guys name. So technically, the split of Miami ineptness goes 4 ways. I blame Ricky Williams, well....we all know why I blame him. LOSER.

[larrymcg421]

LMAO. Spongebob Squarepants would be an excellent choice. At the very least, he could swim with the team mascot during halftime.

Some of these other choices are questionable, however. Joe Bugel??? Already had Nick Saban, and he is 1/3 of the reason Miami is where they are now (1/3 Huizenga, 1/3 Saban, 1/3 Ricky Williams).

You can't let Dave Wannstedt of the hook.

[Kodos]

Or Jimmy Johnson.

[Kodos]

Basically, we should wipe out everything that's happened since Shula was run out of town to get Jimmy Johnson.

[stevew]

I would take Reid in Pittsburgh or Detroit. He has been excellent in Philly. He fell off a branch in the Mike Holmgren tree......

Hell no, I would hate him as the steelers coach.

[RomaGoth]

You can't let Dave Wannstedt of the hook.

Yeah, I forgot about him too. What a bum. He was a bum with Chicago, Miami, and still is a bum with Pitt. :mad:

[RomaGoth]

Or Jimmy Johnson.

I don't have a problem with JJ. I was actually excited when he was hired because of his track record with Miami and Dallas. Unfortunately, he was given a sorry team to work with and salary cap problems. His was a disappointing tenure to be sure, but ultimately the blame should fall upon Wayne Huizenga.

[Toddzilla]

Basically, we should wipe out everything that's happened since Shula was run out of town to get Jimmy Johnson.Which is curious since Don Shula was the most overrated under-achieving coach from 1975 onward.

[jeheinz72]

Which is curious since Don Shula was the most overrated under-achieving coach from 1975 onward.

Hardly.

[rkmsuf]

Which is curious since Don Shula was the most overrated under-achieving coach from 1975 onward.

You complete me.

[larrymcg421]

I don't have a problem with JJ. I was actually excited when he was hired because of his track record with Miami and Dallas. Unfortunately, he was given a sorry team to work with and salary cap problems. His was a disappointing tenure to be sure, but ultimately the blame should fall upon Wayne Huizenga.

There were some salary cap problems from the 1995 team, but that certainly doesn't absolve Johnson of his mistakes, which include bringing Wannstedt there in the first place, running off Keith Byars, refusing to change signals for the 97 playoffs when he KNEW the Patriots knew the current signals, dismantling the offense and bringing in a bunch of underperforming castoffs (Fred Barnett, Brett Perriman, Lamar Thomas, Troy Drayton), laughable attempts at finding a running game (Karim Abdul-Jabbar, JJ Johnson, John Avery, Cecil Collins), hiring Kippy Brown (WTF?) as offensive coordinator, and inability to manage simple gameday decisions like timeouts and going for 2 (a task that was given to Wanny of all people). What's funny is if you look at the Dolphins from 1983-99, Jimmy's teams were actually worse at running the ball than almost all of Shula's teams.

[Izulde]

Basically, we should wipe out everything that's happened since Shula was run out of town to get Jimmy Johnson.

Truer words never spoken. God I hate Jimmy Johnson.

[Toddzilla]

Which is curious since Don Shula was the most overrated under-achieving coach from 1975 onward.
Hardly.
You complete me.
From 1975-2005 (21 years) Shula was 200-121, an average of 9.5 wins and 5.8 losses a year - hardly a great record for his hype as one of the best coaches ever.

In his last 10 years, he was a pedestrian 89-70.

His playoff record since 1975 is 9-11, 3-4 the last 10 years.

He's not a bad coach, just way way way overrated. He couldn't win a Super Bowl with Dan Marino at quarterback, when all he really had to do is draft a running back that could walk upright. He's not a bad coach, just way way way under-achieved given what he had at his disposal.

[Toddzilla]

Truer words never spoken. God I hate Jimmy Johnson.Heck, go further....

Since the second Super Bowl in 1974, with the exception of a few Dan Marino-carried years, the Dolphins are basically the Detroit Lions.

Blow up the last 30 years of the franchise.

[jeheinz72]

From 1975-2005 (21 years) Shula was 200-121, an average of 9.5 wins and 5.8 losses a year - hardly a great record for his hype as one of the best coaches ever.

In his last 10 years, he was a pedestrian 89-70.

His playoff record since 1975 is 9-11, 3-4 the last 10 years.

He's not a bad coach, just way way way overrated. He couldn't win a Super Bowl with Dan Marino at quarterback, when all he really had to do is draft a running back that could walk upright. He's not a bad coach, just way way way under-achieved given what he had at his disposal.

I guess it depends to your definition of overrated. I don't think you can say someone who had 2 sub-.500 years in 21 seasons didn't deliver the goods. He also did get help get them to 2 Super Bowls in that span, and 2 or 3 other AFC Championship games.

Were they as good as his preceeding 12 years? No. But that's virtually impossible. He went 128-35-5 in those 12 years, won 2 titles and was 10-6 in the playoffs. Not many fellas can match that, if any.

If he began his career in 1975 and had the exact same results, would he be widely considered one of the best coaches ever? Probably not. But he did coach those first 12 years, and those count.

And Re: The Last 10-years stat, I'd say yeah, those werent the 10 best years in Dolphin football, but even still, when cherry-picking his 10 worst years, he was 89-70, made the playoffs 4 times and 1 AFC Title game. Great? No. Better run than probably 75% of all coaches ever? Probably, and those are his 10 *worst* years.

Also, while he had Marino, he didn't exactly have a *ton* of talent on the roster. It's not like he was given the '94 Niners and eeked out an 11-5 and first-round playoff loss. Were there good players, sure, but for the most part it wasn't a stacked team.

[jeheinz72]

Heck, go further....

Since the second Super Bowl in 1974, with the exception of a few Dan Marino-carried years, the Dolphins are basically the Detroit Lions.

Blow up the last 30 years of the franchise.

Are you a Dolphins fan even? I presume you're joking.

[RomaGoth]

From 1975-2005 (21 years) Shula was 200-121, an average of 9.5 wins and 5.8 losses a year - hardly a great record for his hype as one of the best coaches ever.

Actually, 1975-2005 is 30 years. Furthermore, Shula only coached Miami from 1970-1995 (26 years). His coaching record (not including playoffs) was 328-156-6 (.676). He retired from coaching after the 1995 season, so I am not sure where you got the above numbers from ;) . With Miami, he was 257-133-2 (.658), which averages out to a record of 9.9 wins and 5.1 losses a year. Basically, that is 10-5 each season. Not too bad if you ask me. He also went to 6 super bowls, winning 2 of them, and also was 32-2 with Miami from 1972-74.

He is definately a HOF coach in my book. If Bill Cowher would have done something like this for Pittsburgh, perhaps I would be more forgiving of him and his 2 super bowls (1-1 record) in 15 years. Maybe if he would have stayed longer with the Steelers, my opinion would be different...

[jeheinz72]

The 200-121 is Shula's record from 1975-1995

[Uncle Briggs]

From 1975-2005 (21 years) Shula was 200-121, an average of 9.5 wins and 5.8 losses a year - hardly a great record for his hype as one of the best coaches ever.

Do you really think there is even one NFL franchise that would not be overjoyed with an average performance of 10 wins, 6 losses over 21 years?

[Uncle Briggs]

He's not a bad coach, just way way way overrated. He couldn't win a Super Bowl with Dan Marino at quarterback, when all he really had to do is draft a running back that could walk upright. He's not a bad coach, just way way way under-achieved given what he had at his disposal.

As an afterthought, this is exactly the attitude that, 12 years ago, led us into our present-day troubles. I've been a fan since 1974, but really, the organization and many of the fans deserve their present misery for crapping on Shula the way they did.

[RomaGoth]

As an afterthought, this is exactly the attitude that, 12 years ago, led us into our present-day troubles. I've been a fan since 1974, but really, the organization and many of the fans deserve their present misery for crapping on Shula the way they did.

I agree with that. I have come to the conclusion that much of the Miami Dolphin's problems can be traced to the following:

1) Wayne Huizenga
2) No running game for Dan Marino
3) Mueller
4) Running Don Shula out of town
5) Dave Wannstedt
6) The Ricky Williams trade
7) An inability to understand the NFL salary cap since its implementation
8) Wayne Huizenga
9) A QB carousel after Marino retired. I mean, c'mon: A.J. Feeley???
10) Mueller
11) Nick Saban
12) Horrible drafting for the last decade (see #'s 3, 10 & 13)
13) Mueller
14) Injuries to key players with an already less than talented roster
15) Wayne Huizenga

As you can see, there are numerous problems with the Miami Dolphins franchise in the last 10 or so years. We can always have hope that Wayne will sell the team, Mueller will be subsequently fired, and competent leadership will be installed at some point in the future. Until then, get your tickets early for the 2008 draft: "With the 1st overall pick in the 2008 NFL rookie draft, the Miami Dolphins choose Daffy Duck from Looney Toons University." Mueller steps up to the stand and says, "We are excited to see what Daffy can do for us next season. We have a lot of holes to fill, but we thought it would be best to fill the most obvious one first - the need for a new mascot after our 0-16 season of 2007."

Sigh. :eek:

[Toddzilla]

Whoa - lots of touchy Dolphins fans here - sorry to burst the bubble of your sacred cow. I love Don Shula, and appreciate what he did for the Dolphins, but you cannot make a rational argument that in the game passed him by sometime in the early 80s.

I didn't cherry pick his worst 10 years, those were the last 10 years of his career, when he clearly should have not been coaching.

That stat should read "from 1975-1995" by the way, my mistake. Still 21 years however.

[Toddzilla]

Do you really think there is even one NFL franchise that would not be overjoyed with an average performance of 10 wins, 6 losses over 21 years?Are you insane? That period includes ZERO Super Bowl wins.

Do you really think there is even one NFL franchise that would rather have a Super Bowl victory mixed in there somewhere?

Restated, given the choice, would you rather see the Dolphins over the next 21 years (1)Average 10-12 wins and not win the Super Bowl, or (2) Win the Super Bowl at least once?

[Toddzilla]

As an afterthought, this is exactly the attitude that, 12 years ago, led us into our present-day troubles. I've been a fan since 1974, but really, the organization and many of the fans deserve their present misery for crapping on Shula the way they did.Wow, you are on some other planet if you think Don Shula could have possibly guided the Dolphins to the Super Bowl post 1995. Sticking with him so long was the problem, shitting on Shula the way Huizenga did was inexcusable, but he did what needed to be done. Blame Jimmy Johnson for dropping *that* ball.

[Toddzilla]

Also, while he had Marino, he didn't exactly have a *ton* of talent on the roster. It's not like he was given the '94 Niners and eeked out an 11-5 and first-round playoff loss. Were there good players, sure, but for the most part it wasn't a stacked team.Exactly - and who's fault is that? Who made the player personnel decisions? How can the Dolphins draft 12-years worth of players and *not* be able to put some talent around Marino?

[RomaGoth]

Whoa - lots of touchy Dolphins fans here - sorry to burst the bubble of your sacred cow. I love Don Shula, and appreciate what he did for the Dolphins, but you cannot make a rational argument that in the game passed him by sometime in the early 80s.

I didn't cherry pick his worst 10 years, those were the last 10 years of his career, when he clearly should have not been coaching.

That stat should read "from 1975-1995" by the way, my mistake. Still 21 years however.

No harm done. I am not a "touchy Dolphins fan", just offering some food for thought as to why the franchise has become so completely inept. I agree that the game passed Shula by, but I don't believe that really happened until the early 90's, rather than the 80's as you stated. Likewise, look at a guy like Joe Gibbs with the Redskins. Do we feel that the game has passed him by at this point? I, for one, feel that way. In fact, I believe the game passed Gibbs by before he retired the first time. He should have gone golfing instead of coming back to the Redskins.

[jeheinz72]

Whoa - lots of touchy Dolphins fans here - sorry to burst the bubble of your sacred cow. I love Don Shula, and appreciate what he did for the Dolphins, but you cannot make a rational argument that in the game passed him by sometime in the early 80s.

I didn't cherry pick his worst 10 years, those were the last 10 years of his career, when he clearly should have not been coaching.



Should not have been coaching?
12-4 in 90 with a playoff Win
11-5 in 92 with a playoff Win
10-6 in 94 with a playoff Win
9-7 in both '93 and '95
8-8 in '89 and '91.

Granted, he didn't win a big one, or get to it, in that stretch but let's remember, he was also going toe-to-toe with a VERY strong Bills team for that stretch. It's not like he was in the NFC of today where it's a different team every year. Even still, his record those last 6 years is 59-37. Basically an average of 10-6.

If 10-6 doesn't deserve to coach then hell, 20 coaches should get fired every year. Is that what you're saying?

[jeheinz72]

Are you insane? That period includes ZERO Super Bowl wins.

Do you really think there is even one NFL franchise that would rather have a Super Bowl victory mixed in there somewhere?

Restated, given the choice, would you rather see the Dolphins over the next 21 years (1)Average 10-12 wins and not win the Super Bowl, or (2) Win the Super Bowl at least once?

That's not a fair question really. IMO

[jeheinz72]

Exactly - and who's fault is that? Who made the player personnel decisions? How can the Dolphins draft 12-years worth of players and *not* be able to put some talent around Marino?

That's funny, I'm pretty sure my initial response and all other talk about his coaching ability. I'm not in favor of the coach having personnel decisions at all, for anyone.

[jeheinz72]

Let me put it this way. In that 21-year stretch you mentioned, Shula's winning percentage was .623

You claim this was the twilight of his career and he shouldn't have been coaching for the majority of it.

Do you know how many coaches have a lifetime win% above .623? 8, soon to be 9.

George Allen - HOF'er
Joe Gibbs - HOF'er
George Halas - HOF'er
George Siefert - Slim chance at being a HOF'er
Tony Dungy - Some chance at being a HOF'er
John Madden - HOF'er
Vince Lombardi - HOF'er
Blanton Collier

Soon to be Bill Belicheck (he's at like .618 and of course rising) - Likely HOF'er

So if you take his career in 2 chunks

Start-74: Arguably the best stretch of success ever. Top-5 certainly
74-95: He "only" performed to the level of a HOF'er.

That's a bad thing? It's his fault? Can I have what you're smoking?

[RomaGoth]

George Allen - HOF'er
Joe Gibbs - HOF'er
George Halas - HOF'er
George Siefert - Slim chance at being a HOF'er
Tony Dungy - Some chance at being a HOF'er
John Madden - HOF'er
Vince Lombardi - HOF'er
Blanton Collier


Dungy needs a few more Super Bowls, 1 is not near enough. Too bad for Siefert how his career ended, he had a great winning % (.755).

Also, don't forget Bill Parcells and Bill Walsh (1993 HOF). Parcells will be in the HOF as well. ;)

[cartman]

Good news for Dolphins fans:

hxxp://www.miamiherald.com/614/story/345175.html

Frustrated Huizenga in talks to sell Dolphins

Growing increasingly frustrated by the team's winless state, Dolphins owner Wayne Huizenga is in talks about selling the team to a pair of major real estate developers, Jorge Perez and Stephen Ross.

The surprise development comes 13 games into the worst on-field season in the Dolphins' proud history. Huizenga's asking price is between $1.1 billion and $1.2 billion, a high-level source has told The Miami Herald.

Although Huizenga declined to comment, Perez, a Miami real estate developer, confirmed Friday that he and Ross are in discussions with Huizenga about the potential purchase.

''We are looking at it very, very seriously,'' said Perez, chairman and CEO of The Related Group, one of the biggest condominium builders in the country.

Perez said he and Ross have met multiple times with Huizenga -- as recently as last weekend.

Two days earlier, Ross, a New York builder and business partner of Perez, had denied speaking with Huizenga about possibly buying the team, stating he was not interested ''at this point'' in purchasing an NFL organization.

A successful deal could take as long as a month, and Ross is expected to be the bigger investor between he and Perez if they indeed decide to purchase the team.

Huizenga has spoken to several confidants outside of the organization, voicing his frustrations while even naming Ross as a potential suitor who would be willing to enter into negotiations.

Sources within the organization also are aware of Huizenga's growing discontent and potential desire to sell the team. Huizenga has in the past said the Dolphins are not for sale, but always added the caveat that he would consider any serious offer.

Ross has been involved with sports before (he was a minority partner in the NHL's New York Islanders, for example), but several of his attempts to dig deeper into the world of athletics never materialized.

In 1990, Ross was also part of a group of investors that was interested in bringing baseball to Miami, a feat that was instead accomplished by Huizenga. Before Huizenga was awarded the team, Abel Holtz -- who was in the chase for a South Florida baseball team since the early days -- had Ross on board in a group worth an estimated $500 million that was also challenging for the expansion rights.

More recently, Ross was part of a team of bidders for the Oakland Athletics in 2004, when Reggie Jackson unsuccessfully attempted to buy the team.

Now, it appears Ross is back in the hunt to get into sports -- and his latest attempt appears on track to be more successful as he might have found a willing seller in Huizenga.

A graduate of the University of Michigan, Ross donated $100 million to the school in 2004, the largest donation in the institution's long history. The university's business school now bears his name. Ross is married with four children.

He met Perez at Michigan. Perez was an urban planning major. The two became close friends and eventually business partners.

The Dolphins are currently the only NFL team without a victory. The team has three more opportunities to win a game and avoid becoming the first NFL team ever to lose every game in a 16-game season.

Forbes Magazine this year valued the Dolphins at $942 million, with a revenue stream of approximately $215 million. The valuation makes the Dolphins the 15th-priciest NFL franchise. The Dallas Cowboys, by comparison, were the highest valued at $1.5 billion. The Minnesota Vikings were the lowest at $782 million.

The Dolphins organization and Dolphin Stadium would be offered as a package deal if a sale happens. Huizenga purchased the team from the Robbie family in 1994 for $138 million.

It is interesting that Huizenga has entered into such negotiations about selling despite his recent commitment to spend approximately $250 million to upgrade Dolphin Stadium, with the final phase of that upgrade to be completed by 2009.

When Huizenga initially agreed to purchase the team, he needed to wait more than three years before officially becoming the team's owner because of the league's cross-ownership policy, which was altered in 1997 to allow controlling interest in other sports.

When he purchased the NFL team, he also owned the Marlins and the Panthers, which he brought to South Florida. He has since sold his interests in both the baseball and hockey organizations.

[Toddzilla]

That's not a fair question really. IMOWell, in reality, that is the very crux of the question. You and others are arguing that a coach that wins between 9 and 10 games a year for a 20-year span, a sub-500 playoff record, and no championships is good enough.

I disagree.

[Toddzilla]

Let me put it this way. In that 21-year stretch you mentioned, Shula's winning percentage was .623

You claim this was the twilight of his career and he shouldn't have been coaching for the majority of it.

Do you know how many coaches have a lifetime win% above .623? 8, soon to be 9.

George Allen - HOF'er
Joe Gibbs - HOF'er
George Halas - HOF'er
George Siefert - Slim chance at being a HOF'er
Tony Dungy - Some chance at being a HOF'er
John Madden - HOF'er
Vince Lombardi - HOF'er
Blanton Collier

Soon to be Bill Belicheck (he's at like .618 and of course rising) - Likely HOF'er

So if you take his career in 2 chunks

Start-74: Arguably the best stretch of success ever. Top-5 certainly
74-95: He "only" performed to the level of a HOF'er.

That's a bad thing? It's his fault? Can I have what you're smoking?Nice strawman, btw.

[Toddzilla]

If 10-6 doesn't deserve to coach then hell, 20 coaches should get fired every year. Is that what you're saying?

Don Shula's record his last 10 years in the NFL:

1986 mia | 8 8 0 - missed playoffs
1987 mia | 8 7 0 - missed playoffs
1988 mia | 6 10 0 - missed playoffs
1989 mia | 8 8 0 - missed playoffs
1990 mia | 12 4 0 - 1-1 in playoffs
1991 mia | 8 8 0 - missed playoffs
1992 mia | 11 5 0 - 1-1 in playoffs
1993 mia | 9 7 0 - missed playoffs
1994 mia | 10 6 0 1-1 in playoffs
1995 mia | 9 7 0 - 0-1 in playoffs

YES, Don Shula should have been gone way before 1995.

Go ahead, defend your boy.

[RomaGoth]

Don Shula's record his last 10 years in the NFL:

1986 mia | 8 8 0 - missed playoffs
1987 mia | 8 7 0 - missed playoffs
1988 mia | 6 10 0 - missed playoffs
1989 mia | 8 8 0 - missed playoffs
1990 mia | 12 4 0 - 1-1 in playoffs
1991 mia | 8 8 0 - missed playoffs
1992 mia | 11 5 0 - 1-1 in playoffs
1993 mia | 9 7 0 - missed playoffs
1994 mia | 10 6 0 1-1 in playoffs
1995 mia | 9 7 0 - 0-1 in playoffs

YES, Don Shula should have been gone way before 1995.

Go ahead, defend your boy.

I wouldn't say he is "my boy", but Shula was a great coach for such a long period of time. Compare him to any other coach IN HISTORY and you will find he measures up very favorably. He has lost more super bowls than most coaches have even sneezed at. Looking at his record over the last 10 years of his career, I would call him above average, not great, but definately not bad either. His record over that time was 89-70. That is not too shabby considering the competition from some good Buffalo teams, not to mention the shootouts they had with the Jets most years. I would be interested in seeing the record of some other coaches' during that time frame.....

Bill Parcells:

1986 NYG | 14 2 0
1987 NYG | 6 9 0
1988 NYG | 10 6 0
1989 NYG | 12 4 0
1990 NYG | 13 3 0
1991 ---- Did Not Coach
1992 ---- Did Not Coach
1993 NE | 5 11 0
1994 NE | 10 6 0
1995 NE | 6 10 0

So, Bill Parcells had a record of 76-51, but he had 2 less years of coaching. If you add the next 2 years, he is 20-12 with NE and the NYJ for a total of 96-63. That is only 7 more wins (and 7 less losses) than Shula over a 10 year period. If you add the previous 2 years, he has a record of 19-13 with the NYG for a total of 95-64. Either way, Shula compares very favorably with Parcells, and Parcells is widely considered one of the greatest of all time. Actually, if we look at overall success rather than just regular season success, Shula has been to more super bowls (6) than Parcells (3) even though they have both won 2 of them.

Just sayin'.............

[RomaGoth]

Good news for Dolphins fans:

hxxp://www.miamiherald.com/614/story/345175.html

I have dreamed of this day.............:cool:

[Vinatieri for Prez]

I'll defend Shula and he's not even my "boy."

Take it from a Pats fan, Don Shula was a darn good coach (and great during certain stretches). You can quibble whether he was good right to the end, but even his record near the end was good in comparison to many. Teams go through cycles, no matter how good you are as a coach. You cannot expect even the best coaches to sustain a high level of success for their players over a 30 year career without hiccups. I was glad when he left (i.e. got kicked out of) Miami. Toddz is just talking nonsense.

[Greyroofoo]

I'm glad I root for the Colts

[cartman]

Is this the thread where we post

Tom Landry >>>> Don Shula

?

[Deattribution]

Don Shula's record his last 10 years in the NFL:

1986 mia | 8 8 0 - missed playoffs
1987 mia | 8 7 0 - missed playoffs
1988 mia | 6 10 0 - missed playoffs
1989 mia | 8 8 0 - missed playoffs
1990 mia | 12 4 0 - 1-1 in playoffs
1991 mia | 8 8 0 - missed playoffs
1992 mia | 11 5 0 - 1-1 in playoffs
1993 mia | 9 7 0 - missed playoffs
1994 mia | 10 6 0 1-1 in playoffs
1995 mia | 9 7 0 - 0-1 in playoffs

YES, Don Shula should have been gone way before 1995.

Go ahead, defend your boy.

I don't know how posting nearly a decade of being at or above 500 is suppose to help your argument. You think that's a bad run? Tell that to a Cardinals fan, or a Lions fan or at the time, a Bucs fan along with dozens of other teams. They didn't win anymore superbowls but they sure as hell didn't go anywhere close to winless either.

[Uncle Briggs]

Is this the thread where we post

Tom Landry >>>> Don Shula

?


You must be looking for the "Drunk Guy" thread.

[astrosfan64]

You must be looking for the "Drunk Guy" thread.

Tom Landry is definately greater then Don Shula

[Big Fo]

Frustrated Huizenga in talks to sell Dolphins

Yeah Wayne, you think that you're the frustrated one, it's your own damn fault. Sell the team as soon as possible, kthx.

[Icy]

I guess the sale would be good news as things can't be worse right now.

Btw, i'm curious, do NFL franchises make good money for the owner or do the investors buy them just for the fun and prestige of owning a football franchise?

[jeheinz72]

Dungy needs a few more Super Bowls, 1 is not near enough. Too bad for Siefert how his career ended, he had a great winning % (.755).

Also, don't forget Bill Parcells and Bill Walsh (1993 HOF). Parcells will be in the HOF as well. ;)

Oh I know there are more coaches in the HOF or that will be, that was just a list of those whose career Win% was better than that of Shula's after the point in which Toddzilla said he wasn't a good coach anymore.

[jeheinz72]

Don Shula's record his last 10 years in the NFL:

1986 mia | 8 8 0 - missed playoffs
1987 mia | 8 7 0 - missed playoffs
1988 mia | 6 10 0 - missed playoffs
1989 mia | 8 8 0 - missed playoffs
1990 mia | 12 4 0 - 1-1 in playoffs
1991 mia | 8 8 0 - missed playoffs
1992 mia | 11 5 0 - 1-1 in playoffs
1993 mia | 9 7 0 - missed playoffs
1994 mia | 10 6 0 1-1 in playoffs
1995 mia | 9 7 0 - 0-1 in playoffs

YES, Don Shula should have been gone way before 1995.

Go ahead, defend your boy.

Uhm, I think you've made my defense for me. You're showing 10 years in which he made the playoffs 4 times and an AFC championship game. Are you saying the period from '86 to '89 was the fault of his bad COACHING? Because if you are you should just stop now.

Also, it's funny how you neglected to mention the fact that your "line" for when he should've left has suddenly changed from '75 to '85. Funny how that happens, isn't it?

[rkmsuf]

Quote:
Originally Posted by rkmsuf
they have a decent shot a beating the ravens this week



RendeR says:
No...no they don't.


nice call fart face

[jeheinz72]

Well, in reality, that is the very crux of the question. You and others are arguing that a coach that wins between 9 and 10 games a year for a 20-year span, a sub-500 playoff record, and no championships is good enough.

I disagree.

Then you must be a fan of either the Cowboys, Niners, Pats, Steelers or Colts. In which case, lucky you, but I'd like to enlighten you to the fact that not all teams can be so fortunate. Clearly this fact has escaped you.

Those are the only teams I can think of off the top of my head that have had a run better than that for even a 8-year span in the last 20 years. I'm sure I missed one, but not very many.

[Abe Sargent]

Exactly - and who's fault is that? Who made the player personnel decisions? How can the Dolphins draft 12-years worth of players and *not* be able to put some talent around Marino?


See also: The Lions and Barry Sanders

[RomaGoth]

See also: The Lions and Barry Sanders

I recall hearing rumors of a trade between the Lions and Dolphins involving Barry Sanders. Of course, it never happened. I attribute this to the complete ineptness of BOTH teams at producing anything resembling a winner.

Dan Marino = Top 5 QB's of all time.
Barry Sanders = Top 5 RB's of all time.

Both = 0 super bowl wins.

What a travesty. No, really. A complete and utter travesty. Sigh. :(

[Pumpy Tudors]

Some coaches I would prefer over Cameron:

Joe Bugel
Bill Callahan
Dom Capers
Pete Carroll
Bruce Coslet
Dennis Erickson
Jerry Glanville
Richie Kotite
Steve Mariuci
Spongebob Squarepants
Bobby Petrino
Ray Rhodes
Mike Riley
Nick Saban
David Shula
Steve Spurrier
Vince Tobin
Bill Walsh (even though he is dead, RIP)
Mike White
Mamma Yo
I'm not a Dolphins fan, but I think they could also use the services of somebody like Ray Handley, Mouse Davis, either Jim Mora, Sam Wyche, or Chan Gailey, too.

[larrymcg421]

Part of the problem with Marino was he would often will a lousy Dolphins team to 8 wins. Even in his very worst year, they still won 6 games, and beat a playoff team in week 15. That often left the team with a mid to late 1st round pick. If only they could have learned how to tank, they might have been able to draft Emmit Smith instead of Sammie Smith.

[RomaGoth]

Part of the problem with Marino was he would often will a lousy Dolphins team to 8 wins. Even in his very worst year, they still won 6 games, and beat a playoff team in week 15. That often left the team with a mid to late 1st round pick. If only they could have learned how to tank, they might have been able to draft Emmit Smith instead of Sammie Smith.


lol. Very true. So in fact, we should all be pissed at Dan the Man for NOT tanking more games. Go figure.......:eek:

[Toddzilla]

Those are the only teams I can think of off the top of my head that have had a run better than that for even a 8-year span in the last 20 years. I'm sure I missed one, but not very many.A run better than that over the last 20 years? Dude, the Buccaneers have had a better run since they were an expansion franchise and lost 26 in a row.

Here - I'll prove it:

Super Bowl Championships since 1976:
Tampa Bay Buccaneers: 1
Miami Dolphins: 0

This is the group of teams you should be comparing the Dolphins to:
Buffalo, New York Jets, Cincinnati, Cleveland, Tennessee, Jacksonville, San Diego, Kansas City, Seattle, Philadelphia, Minnesota, Detroit, Atlanta, New Orleans, Carolina. Did I forget anybody?

You can settle for all the 9-7, 10-6 seasons you want, with a playoff win here and there. And I hope your head feels nice and comfortable wedged straight up your ass.

Fuck that. I want the Dolphins to win the Super Bowl.

[RomaGoth]

A run better than that over the last 20 years? Dude, the Buccaneers have had a better run since they were an expansion franchise and lost 26 in a row.

Here - I'll prove it:

Super Bowl Championships since 1976:
Tampa Bay Buccaneers: 1
Miami Dolphins: 0

This is the group of teams you should be comparing the Dolphins to:
Buffalo, New York Jets, Cincinnati, Cleveland, Tennessee, Jacksonville, San Diego, Kansas City, Seattle, Philadelphia, Minnesota, Detroit, Atlanta, New Orleans, Carolina. Did I forget anybody?

You can settle for all the 9-7, 10-6 seasons you want, with a playoff win here and there. And I hope your head feels nice and comfortable wedged straight up your ass.

Fuck that. I want the Dolphins to win the Super Bowl.

I don't think any of us are settling for a 9-7 or 10-6 season, but what else have we had to look forward to with the Dolphins? They have been nowhere close as super bowl contenders in the last 10 + years. It sucked ass watching Marino (and Barry Sanders in Detroit) waste away on a team that obviously didn't give a crap about winning. So, I will take my 9 or 10 wins any year compared to the miserable debacle that is today's Fins.....1-15 in 2007. On top of that, as long as Mueller is there, they will probably draft as well as they always have. Which means, another Ted Ginn....yech. :mad:

[jeheinz72]

A run better than that over the last 20 years? Dude, the Buccaneers have had a better run since they were an expansion franchise and lost 26 in a row.

Here - I'll prove it:

Super Bowl Championships since 1976:
Tampa Bay Buccaneers: 1
Miami Dolphins: 0

This is the group of teams you should be comparing the Dolphins to:
Buffalo, New York Jets, Cincinnati, Cleveland, Tennessee, Jacksonville, San Diego, Kansas City, Seattle, Philadelphia, Minnesota, Detroit, Atlanta, New Orleans, Carolina. Did I forget anybody?

You can settle for all the 9-7, 10-6 seasons you want, with a playoff win here and there. And I hope your head feels nice and comfortable wedged straight up your ass.

Fuck that. I want the Dolphins to win the Super Bowl.

Dude, I think you're either reading what I'm saying wrong, or completely inept.

I know that 1 title is better than 0. Of course, duh. Thanks for pointing that out.

BUT, not every team can win a title. Heck, only about 40% of the league has in the last 20 years (12 teams). So while obviously I'd like to have them win a title, I'm not going to say that Shula was a bad coach the last 21 years of his career because he didn't get one. The guy won 2 for us, took us to 3 other ones and had some other solid runs to the playoffs and Championship games and what-not. His teams were generally successful over that span of time. He won games, albeit regular-season ones, at a Hall Of Fame rate. Typically we entered most seasons with a better-than-strong shot at the playoffs and worst-case a "Super Bowl darkhorse"-type of label. I'll take that.

Is it ideal? No, it's not ideal. But my team is my team. I guess I could've bandwagon jumped to my local team who was good in my youth, but that really wasn't an option for me (my dad played for the Fins).

I guess we just diverge on what we call success.

[Rizon]

I'm not a Dolphins fan, but I think they could also use the services of somebody like Ray Handley, Mouse Davis, either Jim Mora, Sam Wyche, or Chan Gailey, too.

Playoffs? PLAYOFFS?

[Toddzilla]

If suffering through Cameron and his ilk for the next 3 years means a Super Bowl win by 2012, I'll take it.

[RomaGoth]

If suffering through Cameron and his ilk for the next 3 years means a Super Bowl win by 2012, I'll take it.

Granted, I don't live anywhere near Miami but I have been a Dolphins fan since Dan Marino was a rookie. I feel that I have lost some of that identity with them since he retired, but I am still a fan of the team. I do not completely understand the ill feelings towards Cam Cameron. Yes, I realized that they were 0-13 before finally winning this past weekend, but how much of that is Cameron's fault? Like I said, I am not completely familiar with his coaching and how good or bad his playcalling is, but I don't believe this is as much his fault as it is the entire organization's. If we take a look at the past decade or so with the Dolphins, we see a complete disregard for winning, and a complete ineptness in everything else. The coaches that have been there are absurd (Dave Wannstedt, Nich Saban to name a couple), the drafting has been atrocious, and the free agent signings have been terrible. Also, the entire Ricky Williams situation has been a joke around the rest of the NFL. So, I suppose some of the blame should be placed upon Cameron, but not all of it. Remember when Jimmy Johnson took over in Dallas? His first team went 1-15, but how much of that was his fault? Very little of it in my opinion. Let's give Cameron another 2 years to see what he can do. Will he install his own players and system? Only time will tell, but we need to have patience. The New England Patriots :mad: did not build this team in a day. They were inept for many years prior to Belichek arriving, and look at them now....(of course, Cameron may be no Belichek either). Either way, I am willing to wait and see what happens. I can only hope that Huizenga sells the team and Mueller is fired. After that, anything is possible. ;)

[jeheinz72]

I blame Cameron for a lot. Mainly the 6 losses by 3 points or less. That's pretty bad. While a lot of the roster construction falls on Huizenga and Mueller, Cameron should get a full-share of blame.

With that said, I don't think it's the worst idea in the world if he came back next year.

[miami_fan]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3259227

MIAMI -- Wayne Huizenga's passion for the Miami Dolphins remains, but after more than a decade as their sole owner, he says it's time for someone else to become the boss.

Huizenga announced Friday that New York real estate developer Stephen Ross would acquire 50 percent of the franchise, Dolphin Stadium and surrounding developable land.

"We don't need some old guy limping around here trying to run this franchise," Huizenga said. "I've been in this business 18 years now. Pretty soon it'll be 24, 25. It's time for someone else to take over."

The NFL must approve the sale, which Huizenga said would be worth $1.1 billion.

Ross has an opportunity to become managing general partner in the future. Huizenga turned 70 in December, and he said his age and estate planning motivated him to make the deal.

"I will certainly be a part of this team, a partner in this team, until I die," Huizenga said at a news conference. "And after I die, my family will have the opportunity to continue owning a piece. We will be a partner for a long time."

Huizenga, the sole owner since 1994, will remain managing general partner for an indefinite period. His team is coming off a 1-15 season, the worst in franchise history.

"My heart does not want me to do this, but my head tells me it's the right thing to do," he said.

Ross is chairman of Related Companies, an international real estate development company, and he grew up in South Florida as a Dolphins fans. He said he considered buying other NFL teams in the past, but the Dolphins were his preference.

"I think the price I paid shows that," he said. "I'm a fan to start with, and I'll certainly be at the games."

Huizenga said he and Ross will be involved 50-50 in decisions.

"It's kind of like being married," Huizenga said. "No, I take it back. It's not at all like being married."

Negotiations began last April and became public in December. Speculation about a deal faded when Huizenga hired Bill Parcells as executive vice president of football operations and pledged to remain majority owner.

"Right from day one, Bill Parcells knows or knew that we were going to bring in a partner," Huizenga said. "I reminded him of that several times since he's been at the Dolphins. I met with him again this morning. Bill has no problem with it. We both are very excited about Bill being on board, and Bill will continue to report to me."

Ross said he hadn't spoken with Parcells.

"You can't help but respect the track record of Bill Parcells and what he can do for this franchise," Ross said.

Ross, who has a home in Palm Beach, has been involved with sports before. He was a minority partner with the NHL's New York Islanders, and in 1990 he was part of a group interested in bringing baseball to Miami.

Instead, Huizenga became founding owner of the Florida Marlins, then later sold the team. Huizenga also was the founding owner of the NHL's Florida Panthers, then sold that franchise.

Football has always been Huizenga's first love, but the Dolphins haven't been to the AFC championship game since he became sole owner. They've failed to even make the playoffs since 2001 and last season lost their first 13 games. Last month the Dolphins fired Cam Cameron and hired Tony Sparano as their fifth head coach since 2004.

Still, for an investor, the Dolphins have plenty of appeal. Forbes Magazine last year valued the franchise at $942 million, with a revenue stream of about $215 million. The valuation makes the Dolphins the 15th-priciest NFL franchise.

"Having grown up in South Florida, Dolphins football has been a lifetime passion for me," Ross said. "I am energized by this opportunity, and look forward to being able to once again watch the Dolphins win a Super Bowl alongside all the other loyal Dolphin fans."

Ross would also become part-owner of a stadium that ranks among the NFL's best. Huizenga recently committed to spend about $250 million to upgrade the stadium, with the final phase of work to be completed by 2009.

Huizenga bought the Dolphins from the heirs of team founder Joe Robbie for $138 million.

Ross ranked 68th last year on Forbes' list of richest Americans with a net worth of $4.5 billion. Huizenga was 165th at $2.5 billion.

Copyright 2008 by The Associated Press

[miami_fan]

BTW it would be nice if Ross could actually develop the land surrounding the stadium. That is another one of Wayne's promises that has gone by the wayside.

[Izulde]

Nice to see this transistion happening and that the guy's a Dolfan as well :)