Pats 16-0 Season Was in ANY way Influenced by NFL through refs.

[molson]

So, where do we stand?

[Cringer]

Looks like 100% say yes. :D

[Abe Sargent]

It would be stupid to say no here, every single call or non call influences a game, and it is by NFL employees, so of COURSE the NFL influced the games through refs. Now, if you meant something else, such as "Did the NFL intentionally try to keep the Patriots undefeated through calls?" then you might want to edit your poll.

[molson]

It would be stupid to say no here, every single call or non call influences a game, and it is by NFL employees, so of COURSE the NFL influced the games through refs. Now, if you meant something else, such as "Did the NFL intentionally try to keep the Patriots undefeated through calls?" then you might want to edit your poll.

Point taken, though I think the purpose of the poll is clear.

[Atocep]

Is there a point to this poll?

I'm sure there is, but I don't see how the outcome either way would mean anything.

[Cringer]

WHy did people vote 'no' and ruin the 100%? Bastards can't keep a good thing going can you? Learn how to work kid....

[molson]

Is there a point to this poll?

I'm sure there is, but I don't see how the outcome either way would mean anything.

I think it's quite telling either way....Hard to take NFL football dicussion from someone seriously if they think it's run like the WWE.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Hard to take NFL football dicussion from someone seriously if they think it's run like the WWE.

Not nearly as hard to take seriously as listening to someone who doesn't believe it's possible.

[Atocep]

I think it's quite telling either way....Hard to take NFL football dicussion from someone seriously if they think it's run like the WWE.

I haven't watched enough pats games to say either way, but there's no way you can discout the possibility with so many dollars at stake.

The NBA gets trashed for its officiating and what can appear, at times, as fixed games so I don't see why the NFL should be immune to the criticism.

[stevew]

I just want to see one dehabilitating holding call actually made against the Patriots. Just one time.

[ISiddiqui]

The NBA gets trashed for its officiating and what can appear, at times, as fixed games so I don't see why the NFL should be immune to the criticism.

Brings up an interesting seperate point. How come the NFL gets passes on things that other leagues get slammed for? I'm thinking steroids with the MLB as the most obvious, but this would qualify as well.

[EagleFan]

Brings up an interesting seperate point. How come the NFL gets passes on things that other leagues get slammed for? I'm thinking steroids with the MLB as the most obvious, but this would qualify as well.

Not sure I see your point here.

The NFL had steroid issues and dealt with them, where as MLB tried to hide their heads in the sand.

The NBA had ref-gate come out which is an obvious problem. There has been nothing about a ref, or refs, intentionally making calls one way or another in the NFL so I can't see how you say they get a free pass for "this" when there currently is no "this".

[14ers]

I think the cheating will not come until the Playoffs when the NFL will be doing everything possible to "Help" the Patriots.


I can see the NFL rescheduling the Patriots Playoff games to miss bad weather to help them out. Did the NFL post the Playoff schedule with game times yet, or are they going to do that later, when they can see what days and times would benefit the Patriots?

[Atocep]

The NFL had steroid issues and dealt with them, where as MLB tried to hide their heads in the sand.

There's much more to it than baseball simply hiding their heads in the sand.



The NBA had ref-gate come out which is an obvious problem. There has been nothing about a ref, or refs, intentionally making calls one way or another in the NFL so I can't see how you say they get a free pass for "this" when there currently is no "this".

The NBA has been accused of fixing games for a long time and it had nothing to do Tom Donaghy.

[Suburban Rhythm]

My thinking is a mix of most of the above.

Do I think there were calls made that had a hand in helping the Patriots to 16-0? Yes.

Do I think there was a conspiracy by the NFL, ordering refs to makes iffy calls? No.

This is not to say the Patriots, without the help of questionable calls, are a 10-6 team. But I think they might be a 15-1 team, and that's what the question is-- would they be undefeated.

[Desnudo]

I just want to see one dehabilitating holding call actually made against the Patriots. Just one time.

how about a dehabilitating phantom pass interference call?

[JS19]

I was sitting way up top, and only saw the replay on the jumbotron thing, and also had a few drinks in me, but that looked like a complete BS illegal contact call on Webster (i believe thats who it was) when Pierce sacked Brady.

[Cringer]

I think the cheating will not come until the Playoffs when the NFL will be doing everything possible to "Help" the Patriots.


I can see the NFL rescheduling the Patriots Playoff games to miss bad weather to help them out. Did the NFL post the Playoff schedule with game times yet, or are they going to do that later, when they can see what days and times would benefit the Patriots?

Next weeks schedule is out already. The following week will schedule will be announced next week. If the NFL can predict the weather exactly, one week in advance, they kick ass and can do anything they want.

[SirFozzie]

I think the cheating will not come until the Playoffs when the NFL will be doing everything possible to "Help" the Patriots.


I can see the NFL rescheduling the Patriots Playoff games to miss bad weather to help them out. Did the NFL post the Playoff schedule with game times yet, or are they going to do that later, when they can see what days and times would benefit the Patriots?

Remember, Shiny side of the tinfoil helmet on the outside, not the inside. *rolls eyes*

[Passacaglia]

Next weeks schedule is out already. The following week will schedule will be announced next week. If the NFL can predict the weather exactly, one week in advance, they kick ass and can do anything they want.

I can't believe I'm posting in this thread, but I heard that the teams with bye weeks are slotted for what time their games will play already.

[gstelmack]

Anyone who votes "Yes" here also needs to step forward and say that the NFL tried to derail the 16-0 season with the calls in the Colts game.

And those looking for specific calls to go against the Patriots also need to step forward and admit how BS some of the PI calls are when the DB gets position on the receiver and is making a play for the ball.

Or in other words, I think it's all evened out this year. They caught some breaks, they had some go against them. It's not their fault teams like the Ravens and the Colts self-destructed with some horrible plays at the end of games they should have won.

[WelshWizard]

how about a dehabilitating phantom pass interference call?

Yep the Pats had a couple of them against Indianapolis.

[stevew]

I don't think that the refs by nature conspire for anything. I do think there are some rediculous situations that can develop and start to make a person wonder, however. I mean, the Polamalu interception overturn a couple years back was one of the worst calls I've ever seen in my life, if not the worst. But I don't think that the ref wanted to make the colts win. He was just lousy at his job, and should have been fired.

Shit, NBA refs are 100000 times worse than nfl refs.

[ISiddiqui]

The NFL had steroid issues and dealt with them, where as MLB tried to hide their heads in the sand.

If you really think the NFL is clean, then you may be on something ;). True, MLB dragged on the issue, but now have very strict penalties. MLB players get dragged through the coals, with people suggesting their records get purged from the books and that they shouldn't go to the Hall of Fame... Merriman gets found out that he used steroids and.... a little of nothing really after his 4 game suspension. How many people are taunting him this year at stadiums?

The NBA had ref-gate come out which is an obvious problem. There has been nothing about a ref, or refs, intentionally making calls one way or another in the NFL so I can't see how you say they get a free pass for "this" when there currently is no "this".
As stated, ref-gate came out well after the very vocalized suspicions of crooked refs was being bandied about.

[Cringer]

I can't believe I'm posting in this thread, but I heard that the teams with bye weeks are slotted for what time their games will play already.

Two weeks in advance is even better then. The NFL are the masters of weather. :D

[Brownkeg8]

Only one thing to say. The Ravens had the Patriots stopped & beat, but Ravens sideline called a TO. Neither the Refs or the league had anything to do with that.

[Jas_lov]

This thread is absurd! Refs make mistakes both ways. They don't have an agenda to ensure that the Patriots finish 16-0 or 19-0. As others have pointed out, the Colts got the benefit of some questioniable PI calls when they played the Patriots. One of them especially was horrible as Wayne practically ran over the Patriots defender, but it was called on the Patriots. Other Patriots games I've seen i haven't noticed anything fishy. Usually they're up by 20-30 anyway. They had only 4 close games all year, they scored the most points in NFL history, and they broke a lot of other records. Did the refs help them do all of these things? Ridiculous.

[saldana]

i voted yes, and honestly believe that there were some calls that should or should not have been made during the course of the season that really changed the balance or momentum of games (the illegal contact penalty saturday night on what was 3rd and 23 comes to mind instantly)

that said, i also think the patriots are one of the best teams i have ever seen (and i hate them, so that was rather difficult to say)

[DaddyTorgo]

if you all seriously think the NFL is rigging games to help the Pats win then I suggest (respectfully) that you quit your bitching and find a new sport to watch.

seriously, if the league is cheating to help the Pats win, then go find some other sport to watch and stop complaining about this one if it's not a real "sport" and it's more "wwe-like" and "entertainment."

[Cringer]

If the NFL was going to rig something, it should have been the Dolphins going 0-16. The NFL is so unfair.

[rkmsuf]

I would hope if the NFL was rigging something it would be cheerleader nip slips.

[Pumpy Tudors]

If the NFL was going to rig something, it should have been the Dolphins going 0-16. The NFL is so unfair.
No offense to anyone else who's posted, but this is the most insightful thing posted in the entire thread so far.

[Chief Rum]

If the NFL was going to rig something, it should have been the Dolphins going 0-16. The NFL is so unfair.

Only need to rig a couple games, too.

[Noop]

I can not say for sure either way but I am 51/49 on this issue. On one hand it seems beyond belief that the NFL would actually do that but sometimes I wonder...

[Julio Riddols]

I don't think it is remotely possible that any games were rigged in any way. Refs make bad calls all the time. If the NFL was "Entertainment" they wouldn't have celebration penalties for something so ridiculous as using the ball as a prop. I don't see why team celebrations aren't allowed anyway and why things like the Ickey Shuffle were banned or forced to the sidelines. Its one thing to taunt the other team, but to celebrate a TD, thats natural. Success should be celebrated, just not to the point that it is unsportsmanlike.

When it comes to things like holding or whatever else, the flag is thrown before the result of the play is determined in most cases. I can't imagine the refs know before a play finishes how it is going to end. The only call that can really be disputed here at all is pass interference or roughing the passer.

As far as teams getting bullshit calls in their favor on 3rd and long or whatever, it happens to everybody, and it happens for everybody, just the same. I don't think the Patriots 16-0 record was helped by penalties any more than it was hurt by them.

The NFL didn't agree to trade Randy Moss to the Patriots for a 4th round pick. They also didn't sign Wes Welker. They also didn't bring in Donte Stallworth or Adalius Thomas, or make any of the other moves the Pats made this off season in order to complete one of the best teams ever assembled. The reason the Patriots went undefeated was a combination of talent and good coaching, period.

Also, it could be argued that the whole "spygate" scandal did more to hurt the Pats chances than any penalty call this season, because stuff like that can kill a season for a team.. Instead, because the Patriots have such resilience and such strong leadership from the head coach down, they diffused the situation by going out and making it a point to show the league just how good they could be.

Its absolutely silly to think that the NFL would try and "help" a team go 16-0 after they were caught cheating before the season started, IMO.

[miami_fan]

I haven't watched enough pats games to say either way, but there's no way you can discout the possibility with so many dollars at stake.

The NBA gets trashed for its officiating and what can appear, at times, as fixed games so I don't see why the NFL should be immune to the criticism.

I don't think that the NFL had anything any part of rigging any games, but it is nice to see the consipracy theories sprout the way they have in NBA(San Antonio), NHL(NY Rangers when they won their last title), MLB(Yankees), EPL(ManU), Big East(Pitt/West Va this year), ACC(FSU),etc......

[st.cronin]

Shit, NBA refs are 100000 times worse than nfl refs.

College basketball refs are better than NBA refs. NBA refs are about on par with WWF refs.

[molson]

if you all seriously think the NFL is rigging games to help the Pats win then I suggest (respectfully) that you quit your bitching and find a new sport to watch.

seriously, if the league is cheating to help the Pats win, then go find some other sport to watch and stop complaining about this one if it's not a real "sport" and it's more "wwe-like" and "entertainment."

This was my point in starting this poll - how can you vote "yes" and be an NFL fan. It's absurd.

And Jon, this isn't an "is it possible" argument. I didn't intend to direct my venom at you yesterday, I just want to know what people think. Is it true or not?

There's not any conspiracy with NBA refs either. This was 100% proven to me after many NBA refs went to prison for tax evation. If there was some crazy shit going on beneath the scene, they would have offered it up to the feds at that point.

[stevew]

this totally needs to be changed to a public poll(if possible)

[Kodos]

I voted yes just to annoy Pats fans.

[miami_fan]

This was my point in starting this poll - how can you vote "yes" and be an NFL fan. It's absurd.

And Jon, this isn't an "is it possible" argument. I didn't intend to direct my venom at you yesterday, I just want to know what people think. Is it true or not?

There's not any conspiracy with NBA refs either. This was 100% proven to me after many NBA refs went to prison for tax evation. If there was some crazy shit going on beneath the scene, they would have offered it up to the feds at that point.

But you know as well as I do the perception is there. Again, I don't believe there is some sort of conspiracy in favor of the Pats. I just feel that we as sports fans accept conspiracies on a regular basis in sports especially with teams that win all the time. Why is it so much of a problem that the NFL and the Pats gets hit with the same conspiracy brush? Just a few weeks ago, people on this board ripped the Big East conference for doing everything in its power to get WVU into the national championship game. Why are those people college football fans while they spout those theories. In fact this is not the first time for the conspiracy theory in the NFL. Wasn't there a "conspiracy" to give the Colts a title against Pittsburgh a few years ago and then another "conspiracy" to give the Steelers a title against the Seahawks after that? Sports fans love conspiracies. I don't see why the Pats should be immune to that fair or unfair.

[Desnudo]

I don't think that the refs by nature conspire for anything. I do think there are some rediculous situations that can develop and start to make a person wonder, however. I mean, the Polamalu interception overturn a couple years back was one of the worst calls I've ever seen in my life, if not the worst. But I don't think that the ref wanted to make the colts win. He was just lousy at his job, and should have been fired.

Shit, NBA refs are 100000 times worse than nfl refs.

The worst call I've ever witnessed was the PI call on the Pats in the playoffs at Denver against Samuel. I've also seen enough both for and against the team I cheer for to know that it can't possibly be intentional.

[Radii]

I voted yes just to annoy Pats fans.

+30 or 35 I believe. One of the nuttiest people on the board says something about the refs, a couple other people make comments too, and molson kinda lost it at everyone and tried to make himself some kind of martyr'd suffering pats fan, now I think everyone else is just trying to push him over the edge. I know I can't look away! :D

[Pumpy Tudors]

Seriously, what's the big deal about some people suggesting that there's some kind of conspiracy?

You know what? Pick on my teams and see if I give a shit. Call the Broncos cheaters for their salary cap shenanigans. Blame the NHL for allowing the trap and obstructions during the Devils' championship years. Find some way to invalidate the Cardinals' 2006 World Series title since they only won 83 games all year.

Who cares? Why does it matter what other fans -- maybe of them fans of rival teams -- think about anything? I'm not trying to tell other people how to feel or anything, but I just don't see the big deal.

I should note that the NBA is obviously rigged against me personally. They made me happy by getting the Grizzlies into the playoffs three times, and then they had to get real and make sure that the Grizz never won a playoff game. THANKS, DAVID STERN, YOU FUCK!

[stevew]

The worst call I've ever witnessed was the PI call on the Pats in the playoffs at Denver against Samuel. I've also seen enough both for and against the team I cheer for to know that it can't possibly be intentional.

Yeah, but that was at least a real time call. Guy goes under the hood and tries to find a reason to overturn something, I'm trying to figure out wtf his deal is.

[miami_fan]

I should note that the NBA is obviously rigged against me personally. They made me happy by getting the Grizzlies into the playoffs three times, and then they had to get real and make sure that the Grizz never won a playoff game. THANKS, DAVID STERN, YOU FUCK!

He had to do something to get the folks in Tenneesee to stop watching the Lady Vols. :p

[Axxon]

It would be stupid to say no here, every single call or non call influences a game, and it is by NFL employees, so of COURSE the NFL influced the games through refs. Now, if you meant something else, such as "Did the NFL intentionally try to keep the Patriots undefeated through calls?" then you might want to edit your poll.

I voted before I read this and this is why I voted yes.

To answer the question that he meant to answer I would say no but I do believe that the NFL did pull strings to get them their super bowl XXXVI. Most people I asked pretty much believed it.

We're all a cynical bunch and the emergence of the "Patriots" after 911 just was too convenient and too good a feel good story to not be scripted. Didn't particularly bother anybody though because we all needed a feel good story around about that time.

[rkmsuf]

some real weirdo opinions in this thread

[DaddyTorgo]

I voted before I read this and this is why I voted yes.

To answer the question that he meant to answer I would say no but I do believe that the NFL did pull strings to get them their super bowl XXXVI. Most people I asked pretty much believed it.

We're all a cynical bunch and the emergence of the "Patriots" after 911 just was too convenient and too good a feel good story to not be scripted. Didn't particularly bother anybody though because we all needed a feel good story around about that time.


pulled strings how??

[Butter]

+30 or 35 I believe. One of the nuttiest people on the board says something about the refs, a couple other people make comments too, and molson kinda lost it at everyone and tried to make himself some kind of martyr'd suffering pats fan, now I think everyone else is just trying to push him over the edge. I know I can't look away! :D

I'm going with this.

[Karlifornia]

some real weirdo opinions in this thread

lol, yeah...I am now either the only sane person in the world, or I'm completely oblivious to every game being "fixed". I really hope it's the former.

*crosses fingers*

[SirFozzie]

It's people hoping us "nutso Pats Fans" will go off on them, there's maybe 4 or 5 people who think this is honestly possible, that the league is trying to favor the Pats in the name of ratings, the rest are just trying to poke the Pats fans with sharp sticks for cheapo laughs.

[rkmsuf]

It's people hoping us "nutso Pats Fans" will go off on them, there's maybe 4 or 5 people who think this is honestly possible, that the league is trying to favor the Pats in the name of ratings, the rest are just trying to poke the Pats fans with sharp sticks for cheapo laughs.

Those 4 or 5 people need to be studied at the university level.

[molson]

Seriously, what's the big deal about some people suggesting that there's some kind of conspiracy?

You know what? Pick on my teams and see if I give a shit. Call the Broncos cheaters for their salary cap shenanigans. Blame the NHL for allowing the trap and obstructions during the Devils' championship years. Find some way to invalidate the Cardinals' 2006 World Series title since they only won 83 games all year.

Who cares? Why does it matter what other fans -- maybe of them fans of rival teams -- think about anything? I'm not trying to tell other people how to feel or anything, but I just don't see the big deal.



Ya, the post was definitely made with drunken annoyance, but this has always been a pet peeve of mine, even before the Pats

It's just a classic sports fan prick move - the team I don't like won, so it must have rigged. They either really believe that (which is difficult to comprehend), or they're just trying to bring someone else down. Not so much that I care what they say/think, it's just I think it's a horrible character trait and it makes me dislike those people. Throw in the excitement of your team going 16-0 and a bunch of cheap beer on NYE weekend, and I wanted to call out the assholes (but was too stupid to make the poll public).

At the end of the day, I guess it's just funny to me that people act like assholes (and in many cases, wish for injury), because the don't like a team and are jelous that their favorite team hasn't had the same success. And if a fan of that team responds - they're an asshole, or they're whining for caring. It's a trap I fall into pretty much constantly on the board. At the end of the day, that minor annoyance certainly doesn't come anywhere close to the positives of having every team you've rooted for as a kid suddenly kicking everyone else's ass. Just something to shoot the shit about on a message board.

[SFL Cat]

Totally off topic, but I would love to see New England get knocked off in their first playoff game. :p

[miami_fan]

Totally off topic, but I would love to see New England get knocked off in their first playoff game. :p

See this is the type of divisional hate that you just don't find in today's love everyone NFL

I miss the good ole days:p

[dime]

totally on topic, but I would like to see an end to the last few years of patriot fans (the ones who chant "LT SUCKS!" and think that their coach's cheating is the result of a conspiracy) telling everyone what's okay and what's not okay to cheer for. you are not the nfl fandom police.

martyrdom requires actual suffering. the patriots have been gifted with great fortune in the last six years or so; even their blatant disregard for nfl rules has not earned them any "suffering".

give it a rest already, no one is out to get you. there are many legitimate reasons to hate this organization a way that people never hated the 49ers or Cowboys.

[molson]

totally on topic, but I would like to see an end to the last few years of patriot fans (the ones who chant "LT SUCKS!" and think that their coach's cheating is the result of a conspiracy) telling everyone what's okay and what's not okay to cheer for. you are not the nfl fandom police.

martyrdom requires actual suffering. the patriots have been gifted with great fortune in the last six years or so; even their blatant disregard for nfl rules has not earned them any "suffering".

give it a rest already, no one is out to get you. there are many legitimate reasons to hate this organization a way that people never hated the 49ers or Cowboys.

-Why is "LT Sucks" worse than "Brady sucks"? Whare are you, the nfl fandom police?
-Where did I say there were conspiracies, that the Pats "suffered", or that anyone's out to get them, or in the slightest way defended them from "cheating" If that's a viewpoint someone has out there, it's a pretty limited and insignifcant thing to attach your entire point on. Whatever your point was.

If the Pats get to 19-0 you people are really going to lose it. I think you need to get over it and try to find something you enjoy about football again.

[molson]

there are many legitimate reasons to hate this organization a way that people never hated the 49ers or Cowboys.

I know, I know, they won by too many points and hurt people's feelings. I'm sure that's something they'll have to confront on judgment day, no need to get all riled up about it here.

[ISiddiqui]

But you know as well as I do the perception is there. Again, I don't believe there is some sort of conspiracy in favor of the Pats. I just feel that we as sports fans accept conspiracies on a regular basis in sports especially with teams that win all the time. Why is it so much of a problem that the NFL and the Pats gets hit with the same conspiracy brush? Just a few weeks ago, people on this board ripped the Big East conference for doing everything in its power to get WVU into the national championship game. Why are those people college football fans while they spout those theories. In fact this is not the first time for the conspiracy theory in the NFL. Wasn't there a "conspiracy" to give the Colts a title against Pittsburgh a few years ago and then another "conspiracy" to give the Steelers a title against the Seahawks after that? Sports fans love conspiracies. I don't see why the Pats should be immune to that fair or unfair.

This'd be the winning post. Are the Patriots any different than the various other teams that conspiracies have been asserted for? Why is so horrid here, but not in the college football thread (where conspiracies have been asserted every other week) or in the soccer thread (where someone was asking how much an owner paid off a ref just a few days ago).

[Mustang]

I think there is a conspiracy about conspiracies.

[st.cronin]

This'd be the winning post. Are the Patriots any different than the various other teams that conspiracies have been asserted for? Why is so horrid here, but not in the college football thread (where conspiracies have been asserted every other week) or in the soccer thread (where someone was asking how much an owner paid off a ref just a few days ago).

I don't read the soccer thread, but what conspiracy theories get mentioned in the college football threads?

[Atocep]

If the Pats get to 19-0 you people are really going to lose it. I think you need to get over it and try to find something you enjoy about football again.

At the same time Pats fans need to stop jumping up and down telling everyone that the only reason there's hatred for their team is because they're so damn awesome while acting like any hatred toward the team is so completely illogical that anyone that does so isn't a real fan of the NFL.

[Axxon]

pulled strings how??

No idea really. Didn't watch enough Patriot games to have a well thought out issue to point to and again, didn't really care much.

The truth is, it made more sense that if something that improbable occurred, something based on something even more improbable that it was set up somehow. Maybe one call in one game would be enough. Maybe there was some owner collusion for the best interest of the nation. Who knows?

Probably way too cynical but given the state of media manipulation and advanced technology these days it's harder and harder to believe in anything that sounds that fairy tale. SHURG.

[rkmsuf]

No idea really. Didn't watch enough Patriot games to have a well thought out issue to point to and again, didn't really care much.

The truth is, it made more sense that if something that improbable occurred, something based on something even more improbable that it was set up somehow. Maybe one call in one game would be enough. Maybe there was some owner collusion for the best interest of the nation. Who knows?

Probably way too cynical but given the state of media manipulation and advanced technology these days it's harder and harder to believe in anything that sounds that fairy tale. SHURG.

Have fun with all that.

[Axxon]

Have fun with all that.

Truth is, that's what I've always had with it so I really can't see why I'd change that now.

[ISiddiqui]

I don't read the soccer thread, but what conspiracy theories get mentioned in the college football threads?

As mentioned by miami_fan, there was talk about the Big East trying to get WVU to win the game against Pitt anyway they could, so they could have a team in the national championship. Especially after some horrible calls went against Pitt.

[miami_fan]

I don't read the soccer thread, but what conspiracy theories get mentioned in the college football threads?

Here is what was posted in the CFB Week 14 thread between pages 3-4.



The fix is in. Obviously the Big East wants a representative in the title game cuz that holding call was absolute bull****.

And the Big East is still trying to get their team in the title game.

Wow, this does look very shady.

Wow, Pitt is getting jobbed by the refs.

I have no dog in this fight. But if WVA wins this game, it will be one of the biggest frauds in the history of college football. Bluntly, they do not deserve to play for the national championship.

1. The officials from the WVU-Pitt game had been paid by either WVU or the Big East itself. How bad is it that I honestly think that the Big East purposely was trying to fix that game so their conference could make the title game?


Now how exactly is it that much different than saying a Pats game or games are rigged?

[Karlifornia]

Here is what was posted in the CFB Week 14 thread between pages 3-4.



Now how exactly is it that much different than saying a Pats game or games are rigged?



Good job on the research. You did the multiple quote tags and everything. I missed that game, but I wish I hadn't.

[miami_fan]

Good job on the research. You did the multiple quote tags and everything. I missed that game, but I wish I hadn't.

Wasn't that hard to remember. I actually gave Dave Wannstedt credit for a good coaching job:p

[molson]

Now how exactly is it that much different than saying a Pats game or games are rigged?

It's not, really. (Though I started the poll and you can't quote me saying anything like that).

And I'm also impressed with the multiple quote tag usage.

[Jas_lov]

Now how exactly is it that much different than saying a Pats game or games are rigged?

It's not and you're exactly right, many are being very hypocritical. Bashing those for believing in the Patriots 16-0 conspiracy while spouting off conpiracy theories themselves in other threads. You'll notice that I have not been implicated or exposed as a hypocrite. I am as constant as the North Star. The NFL Refs did NOT conspire to help the Patriots go 16-0. It's absurd and ridiculous. The Big East Refs did NOT conspire to help WV beat Pitt. This just in: Refs make bad calls, more often than not!

[Pumpy Tudors]

I am as constant as the North Star.
lol

[miami_fan]

Honestly, I was not trying to call anyone out or make anyone out to be a hypocrite. I just picked the first few quotes that I saw. My only point was to show that sports fans in general have always spouted off some higher entity conspiring against their team or for another team.

Pats fans: My own personal hate for the Pats is very simple. They are in my team’s division and they have been dominating over the last six years. I am sure that is easy to understand. What seems to trouble some of you is that people who probably should have no reason to hate the Pats do. I can honestly understand why. The 2007 Pats are NOT the 2001 Pats. This is not the same team who came out in unison against the St. Louis Rams. That team has all the innocent stories. The sixth round rookie QB who was only playing because of injury, the HC getting a second chance, the center whose brothers were firefighters in NYC. Those were wonderful stories. I hated them but there were wonderful stories. They were the underdog. NO ONE gave them a shot to win and they did it. Most of us only knew of a few Pats at that time. You could see the genuine joy and happiness of a Pats fan that stuck with his team through thick and thin and had seen them win a title. Many of us outsiders did not give them dynasty credit but we did not do that for the Ravens either.

Fast forward to 2007. The 2007 team were at the very least amongst the top two or three teams if not the favorite to win the Super Bowl coming into the season. They have a HOF QB. They have a HOF coach. They added a HOF WR through a trade and added the top free agent defensive player. At least one person in the media predicted they would go 19-0 in April. That sixth round QB is now a two time Super Bowl MVP who is now very capable of trash talking with the TOs of the world, that second chance HC is an arrogant prick who does not give a damn what others think and was caught doing something illegal. The core of the defense is forever claiming disrespect despite a great deal of evidence to the contrary. Add to that the many fans the Pats have picked along the way seem to have graduated from the Yankees’ school of fandom. Do they represent all Pats fans? No, but they are enough of them to be make an impact on other fans. We have not given the “good” Yankees fans the benefit of the doubt have we? In fact, I think the difference between the 2001 Pats and the 2007 Pats is similar to the 1996 and the 2007 Yankees. Not surprisingly, more people liked the 1996 Yankees than they did the 2007 Yankees. Also not suprisingly, there have been many claims that MLB has "rigged" games, seasons, and the system to allow the Yankees to be successful.

[sabotai]

I am as constant as the North Star.

Ahem...

"But I am constant as the northern star."

;)

[DaddyTorgo]

Honestly, I was not trying to call anyone out or make anyone out to be a hypocrite. I just picked the first few quotes that I saw. My only point was to show that sports fans in general have always spouted off some higher entity conspiring against their team or for another team.

Pats fans: My own personal hate for the Pats is very simple. They are in my team’s division and they have been dominating over the last six years. I am sure that is easy to understand. What seems to trouble some of you is that people who probably should have no reason to hate the Pats do. I can honestly understand why. The 2007 Pats are NOT the 2001 Pats. This is not the same team who came out in unison against the St. Louis Rams. That team has all the innocent stories. The sixth round rookie QB who was only playing because of injury, the HC getting a second chance, the center whose brothers were firefighters in NYC. Those were wonderful stories. I hated them but there were wonderful stories. They were the underdog. NO ONE gave them a shot to win and they did it. Most of us only knew of a few Pats at that time. You could see the genuine joy and happiness of a Pats fan that stuck with his team through thick and thin and had seen them win a title. Many of us outsiders did not give them dynasty credit but we did not do that for the Ravens either.

Fast forward to 2007. The 2007 team were at the very least amongst the top two or three teams if not the favorite to win the Super Bowl coming into the season. They have a HOF QB. They have a HOF coach. They added a HOF WR through a trade and added the top free agent defensive player. At least one person in the media predicted they would go 19-0 in April. That sixth round QB is now a two time Super Bowl MVP who is now very capable of trash talking with the TOs of the world, that second chance HC is an arrogant prick who does not give a damn what others think and was caught doing something illegal. The core of the defense is forever claiming disrespect despite a great deal of evidence to the contrary. Add to that the many fans the Pats have picked along the way seem to have graduated from the Yankees’ school of fandom. Do they represent all Pats fans? No, but they are enough of them to be make an impact on other fans. We have not given the “good” Yankees fans the benefit of the doubt have we? In fact, I think the difference between the 2001 Pats and the 2007 Pats is similar to the 1996 and the 2007 Yankees. Not surprisingly, more people liked the 1996 Yankees than they did the 2007 Yankees. Also not suprisingly, there have been many claims that MLB has "rigged" games, seasons, and the system to allow the Yankees to be successful.

whoa whoa whoa....come again...Tom Brady is a trash-talker on the level of TO? And should the HC care what people think? His boss doesn't pay him to care about what people or the media think, he pays him to win football games.

And please...get over the damn camera-thing already. Any other team in the league and it's a non-story by this point. Not like other teams don't do it...the Pats guy just happened to be outside of the designated area where you could do it. We have no reason to believe actually that he was told "hey go there and tape so you can get a better angle" by the HC. And it's not like teams don't change up their defensive signals all the time anyways, so I think any advantage you could possibly gain from that would be completely erased by this point.

[Cringer]

And I thought this thread would die out after a few hours. I don't know much sometimes.

[BishopMVP]

Here is what was posted in the CFB Week 14 thread between pages 3-4.

Now how exactly is it that much different than saying a Pats game or games are rigged?Because that game was the worst officiated game I have seen at a college or pro level and all the calls went in favor of the team that stood to earn the conference millions? I'm not sure if you actually watched it, but even the announcers were admitting on air they thought the refs were crooked. If any succession of calls like occurred there occurs in a Pats playoff game, I will think there is a conspiracy and thousands of NFL fans will be dead from elevated blood pressure and aneurysms. If you take the phantom illegal contact penalty from last week, add in all the rough play our DB's used before Polian got the rules changed plus the Tuck Rule incident into one quarter it wouldn't be as bad as that WVU/Pitt game.

Basically you can believe what you want about conspiracies, and I'll believe you're delusional if you see one in favor of the Patriots and an undefeated season (I think the Colts game should put that to a lie.)

[dime]

I know, I know, they won by too many points and hurt people's feelings. I'm sure that's something they'll have to confront on judgment day, no need to get all riled up about it here.

I don't really care about that, although it does perfectly exemplify their bully behavior and psyche (one of the big reasons I hate them).

It's interesting that you mention "judgment day"...according to Ellis Hobbs, God is already passing judgment on patriot opponents. After the pittsburgh game, Hobbs suggested that Anthony Smith's "pride" was punished because he dared to predict a victory against the pats. I know every dumb jock thinks God is on his side, but this was still shocking for me to read. Someone on the patriots is scolding someone else for "pride"???

I hate that their best player, who made them such a great team this year, is probably "trying" for the first time in his career. I hate that he is being lauded for such heroic and noble conduct by his QB and coach on a regular basis.

I hate the whole "we put character first" nonsense, because it's a total lie. Randy Moss and Rodney Harrison are not character guys. Junior Seau "retired" and had the chargers throw him a big teary-eyed party before he stunned them by promptly signing with the pats. The team's approach to personnel is pretty callous, even by nfl standards. Just be honest about what kind of organization you are, and that you want to win at all costs, I would respect the disclosure.

The coach cheated, thumbed his nose at everyone about it and then took "revenge" on the rest of the league for it. He loves competition for all the wrong reasons and seems to be a first-class asshole.

The trash talking, chippiness, taunting and cheap shots are not impressive. If you think you're a champion, act like one. Don't act like joey porter.

The "we get no respect" canard is an insult to everyone's intelligence...except, it would seem, for the patriot fans who seem to believe this. I know that a lot of teams and athletes use this for motivation, but most of them have the sense to keep it in-house so as not to embarrass themselves by spouting this nonsense. Tom Brady hissed and threw a tantrum about this just last year at a presser and was lauded by the talking heads for showing "leadership". Ugh.

Finally, it seems that the patriot fanbase is hellbent on having their team be loved and adored by everyone. It is comically reminiscent of Giant fans trying to convince people that Barry Bonds is misunderstood and innocent of the doping charges. Not gonna happen.

[miami_fan]

Because that game was the worst officiated game I have seen at a college or pro level and all the calls went in favor of the team that stood to earn the conference millions? I'm not sure if you actually watched it, but even the announcers were admitting on air they thought the refs were crooked. If any succession of calls like occurred there occurs in a Pats playoff game, I will think there is a conspiracy and thousands of NFL fans will be dead from elevated blood pressure and aneurysms. If you take the phantom illegal contact penalty from last week, add in all the rough play our DB's used before Polian got the rules changed plus the Tuck Rule incident into one quarter it wouldn't be as bad as that WVU/Pitt game.

Basically you can believe what you want about conspiracies, and I'll believe you're delusional if you see one in favor of the Patriots and an undefeated season (I think the Colts game should put that to a lie.)

Let me make sure I understand what you are saying. It is perfectly okay for you or anyone else to make conspiracy accusations but it is not okay to do the same with the Pats when both sides have the same amount of real evidence of said conspiracy which is to say none.

Got it.

[Vinatieri for Prez]

Honestly, I was not trying to call anyone out or make anyone out to be a hypocrite. I just picked the first few quotes that I saw. My only point was to show that sports fans in general have always spouted off some higher entity conspiring against their team or for another team.

Pats fans: My own personal hate for the Pats is very simple. They are in my team’s division and they have been dominating over the last six years. I am sure that is easy to understand. What seems to trouble some of you is that people who probably should have no reason to hate the Pats do. I can honestly understand why. The 2007 Pats are NOT the 2001 Pats. This is not the same team who came out in unison against the St. Louis Rams. That team has all the innocent stories. The sixth round rookie QB who was only playing because of injury, the HC getting a second chance, the center whose brothers were firefighters in NYC. Those were wonderful stories. I hated them but there were wonderful stories. They were the underdog. NO ONE gave them a shot to win and they did it. Most of us only knew of a few Pats at that time. You could see the genuine joy and happiness of a Pats fan that stuck with his team through thick and thin and had seen them win a title. Many of us outsiders did not give them dynasty credit but we did not do that for the Ravens either.

Fast forward to 2007. The 2007 team were at the very least amongst the top two or three teams if not the favorite to win the Super Bowl coming into the season. They have a HOF QB. They have a HOF coach. They added a HOF WR through a trade and added the top free agent defensive player. At least one person in the media predicted they would go 19-0 in April. That sixth round QB is now a two time Super Bowl MVP who is now very capable of trash talking with the TOs of the world, that second chance HC is an arrogant prick who does not give a damn what others think and was caught doing something illegal. The core of the defense is forever claiming disrespect despite a great deal of evidence to the contrary. Add to that the many fans the Pats have picked along the way seem to have graduated from the Yankees’ school of fandom. Do they represent all Pats fans? No, but they are enough of them to be make an impact on other fans. We have not given the “good” Yankees fans the benefit of the doubt have we? In fact, I think the difference between the 2001 Pats and the 2007 Pats is similar to the 1996 and the 2007 Yankees. Not surprisingly, more people liked the 1996 Yankees than they did the 2007 Yankees. Also not suprisingly, there have been many claims that MLB has "rigged" games, seasons, and the system to allow the Yankees to be successful.

I actually think this post is a pretty good one. Well done. For another viewpoint as a Pats fan here, you have summed up exactly why the Pats are hated. If you're successful, you will be hated. It really is that simple. And it doesn't help that they got caught cheating and have turned up the jackassery this season. I don't say it to boast, it's just a fact that success breed contempt. As a perfect example, I don't even have most of the stuff in that thread to throw at the Colts, but I hate them. I hate them even though I know (other than Bill Polian) that almost everyone in that organization is basically a good person. Irsay, Dungy, Manning, Sanders, Addai, Harrison, Wayne I really think are good people. I even think the Colts fans for the most part are nice. But I still hate the fuckin' Colts. I would have died if they had gone undefeated during their run 3 years ago.

So, I am not the least bit disturbed by the Pats hatred. With that said, I also feel it is my duty as a Pats fan to defend them from attacks that claim to based on objective fact. Like the games are rigged. Or Brady is an average QB in a good system (which is what people were saying even up to this year). But it has been a weird ride. A few years ago, I would not have contemplated this change from heroes to villains. But I see it now. I have accepted it. I am at peace with it. And within that peace, I find the time to remind an irrational hater that the Pats are 16-0 and still on target for the "greatest season of all time." I'm telling you, if they get through Jacksonville, Indy and Dallas (beating both of those teams twice) they will have earned it.

Funny though, I don't hate the Dolphins nearly as much as I did 10 years ago. I wonder why? That may be the unkindest cut of all.

[molson]

Finally, it seems that the patriot fanbase is hellbent on having their team be loved and adored by everyone. It is comically reminiscent of Giant fans trying to convince people that Barry Bonds is misunderstood and innocent of the doping charges. Not gonna happen.

Responding to criticism (especially when it's directed towards you, meaning the fans and not the team), doesn't mean someone is "hellbent on having their team be loved and adored by everyone". I'm allowed to respond to stuff just like anyone else (though I do it more than I should).

The Pats are a hugely successful bully of a team with an arrogant and non-personable head coach who was caught breaking the rules. Nothing wrong with hating that. I think the character/cheap shots stuff is way overrated, but that's just my opinion (you pointed out 3 non-character guys, which is probably an all-time low for an NFL team, and I don't even agree on Seau or Moss, at least at this point in their careers).

And there's a tendency to see more than there is when you don't like something - what I remember from the last Colts/Pats game was the Colts players dancing around like morons every time they made a good play on defense early. I realize though, that I notice those things because I don't like it when they play well. If I posted that the Colts players "were classless", not only would the Colts fans respond, they'd turn it around and say I was asshole for even saying that. (And I don't think they're "classless" or anything, I don't take it to that weird level, I just don't like them).

But whatever, your post summed up the contrary opinions well. The other constant attacks just get tiring is all, and the responses make it worse. The fist time I noticed it here was that Deion Branch saga. It wasn't about whether that was a good decision or not, instead there was sentiment about the Pats being "classless" for not taking care of their player (who of course has been a huge bust ever since). That's when some people started to lose it and became unable to think logically.

Every Pats discussion spirals into it, and I'm guilty of extending it here again with this thread.

[st.cronin]

Tom Brady is a great trash-talker. He's no Larry Bird, but he's pretty good.

[Synovia]

I just want to see one dehabilitating holding call actually made against the Patriots. Just one time.


Did you watch the Pats/Colts game? Obviously not.

[Synovia]

The worst call I've ever witnessed was the PI call on the Pats in the playoffs at Denver against Samuel. I've also seen enough both for and against the team I cheer for to know that it can't possibly be intentional.


naw, the call on Hobbs last year was worse (where the ball hit him in the back of the head, before he ran into harrison). By rule you can't call interference on a play if the ball hits a defender before the defender hits the other player.


That play basically lost them the game, and the NFL issued an official apology the next day.



Theres potential penalties on EVERY SINGLE PLAY in the NFL. Things happen at very high speeds. Theres no way to get them all right.

[molson]

naw, the call on Hobbs last year was worse (where the ball hit him in the back of the head, before he ran into harrison). By rule you can't call interference on a play if the ball hits a defender before the defender hits the other player.

That play basically lost them the game, and the NFL issued an official apology the next day.



Yet zero discussion of the game being rigged, or even discussion that such an awful call tained the Colts Super Bowl win.

And I don't believe either of those things is true - bad calls happen. The Pats could have done more to win the game regardless. Same with any game where the Pats get the benefit of the doubt, despite what people say here.