More Hattrick: Anyone ABOVE Div. 5? [Archive] - Front Office Football Central

JHandley

03-11-2003, 07:56 PM

Does anyone here know if the talent on a new team is equal to their league standing? To better clarify, Rexalllsc and I both got our teams at almost the same time, yet he got a team on the verge of promotion and I have a team that's mired in the bottom of a division V league. I believe, and I could be mistaken, that I got all new players with my team, do the better teams keep their players or do they merely get better players?

illinifan999

03-11-2003, 08:00 PM

I don't know, but I also inherited a crappy ass team. I think they start off with the same players, but I don't know.

rexalllsc

03-11-2003, 08:06 PM

Originally posted by JHandley
Does anyone here know if the talent on a new team is equal to their league standing? To better clarify, Rexalllsc and I both got our teams at almost the same time, yet he got a team on the verge of promotion and I have a team that's mired in the bottom of a division V league. I believe, and I could be mistaken, that I got all new players with my team, do the better teams keep their players or do they merely get better players?

;)

JHandley

03-11-2003, 08:07 PM

That's what I'm wondering. If they start off with the same talent level, then Rexalllsc got screwed. If he's expected to compete for promotion or at the IV level with the same kind of players I have, he's in for a long long year. ;)

RPI-Fan

03-11-2003, 08:14 PM

I started in DIV. It kind of sucks - I've made some minor changes that I'm proud of (and even developed a passable playmaker recently), but the only team I can handle is the last-placed one, though I did control possession in a recent home game against the 5th placed team.

So, basically, I had too far to climb up, being as I only had half-a-season to improve on my 0 points and 0 goals through 7 games when I inherited the team.

bbor

03-11-2003, 08:16 PM

I started my Canadian team in D4 also...it's been tough sledding

illinifan999

03-11-2003, 08:19 PM

That is what makes me think that you start off with players that are close to the same level as the other teams. Maybe strengths are in different places, but hearing stories about teams that start in D4 are screwed because they start with players that aer below the normal in D4.

daedalus

03-11-2003, 08:26 PM

Originally posted by bbor
I started my Canadian team in D4 also...it's been tough sledding

Is that US D7? :)

rexalllsc

03-11-2003, 08:33 PM

Originally posted by daedalus
Is that US D7? :)

Actually it's D9. :)

rexalllsc

03-11-2003, 08:34 PM

Originally posted by illinifan999
That is what makes me think that you start off with players that are close to the same level as the other teams. Maybe strengths are in different places, but hearing stories about teams that start in D4 are screwed because they start with players that aer below the normal in D4.

Interesting...I wonder if my squad has the talent to hang @ D-4...I should play someone here w/ a D-4 team in my friendly next week...anyone game?

McSweeny

03-11-2003, 08:35 PM

or you could play a team like mine. 0 points with 3 league games left and they had only scored 1 goal all year when i took over. If i thump you that wouldn't be such a good sign :D

rexalllsc

03-11-2003, 08:45 PM

Originally posted by McSweeny
or you could play a team like mine. 0 points with 3 league games left and they had only scored 1 goal all year when i took over. If i thump you that wouldn't be such a good sign :D

If you're in D-4...let's schedule one next week...ya?

McSweeny

03-11-2003, 08:48 PM

no i'm in d-5, i was just saying if i could hold my own with ya then talents are probably pretty even. I do have a match for this week though

illinifan999

03-12-2003, 06:37 AM

McSeeny, I know how you feel, my team started off with something 3 goals for, and 47 against. When I looked at the previous owner's matches, they were all 5-0. Is that the score for a forfeit? And it only took me two season to develop a winning team, and am poised for a run next year. :D

McSweeny

03-12-2003, 07:21 AM

well that's good to hear, i hope i'm poised for at least a 4th place fnish in the table next year

vex

03-12-2003, 09:05 AM

Originally posted by illinifan999
When I looked at the previous owner's matches, they were all 5-0. Is that the score for a forfeit?

Yes, that's the forfeit score.

KWhit

03-12-2003, 09:11 AM

I don't know what possessed me (maybe all the posts on this board perhaps?) but I finally signed up for this and am on the waiting list.

I know NOTHING about soccer or how to play this game. First question - what's a "Friendly"? Obviously it's a game (or match as those crazy footballers call it), but is it an exhibition? does it count in your standings?

vex

03-12-2003, 09:15 AM

Yes, it is an exibition, and no, it doesn't count towards the standings. See, you know more than you thought:)

DataKing

03-12-2003, 10:20 AM

I believe that new teams, no matter which division they start in (IV or V in the U.S.) receive randomly generated players of roughly the same talent level. Yes, there is some variation on that, so some teams may start with generally better talent than others.

When I received my team, I was fortunate in that I started with a passable keeper, and I had some talent at midfield and defense. But I didn't have anyone who could even pretend to play forward.

People that receive new teams in Div. IV are generally screwed, because they have to compete with teams that have presumably been around for a while. There are a couple of new teams in my Div. IV series, and they get stomped on regularly. If you start in Div. IV, I think it's best just to take your lumps, build up the best team you can, and try to dominate whichever Div. V series you land in next season after relegation.

And as daedalus mentioned, the results of this weekend's match will determine whether or not I get a shot at Division III next season. If I win, I'm in. A draw, and I will most likely have a qualification match. Lose, and I probably lose the series title.

Can you say 'MOTS?' ;)

JHandley

03-12-2003, 11:45 AM

Originally posted by vexroid
Yes, that's the forfeit score.

This may be a silly question, but how do you forfeit? It's my understand that you set your lineups and then watch afterwards to see what happens. Are you required to atleast review your lineups?

Poli

03-12-2003, 11:56 AM

Originally posted by DataKing
I believe that new teams, no matter which division they start in (IV or V in the U.S.) receive randomly generated players of roughly the same talent level. Yes, there is some variation on that, so some teams may start with generally better talent than others.

When I received my team, I was fortunate in that I started with a passable keeper, and I had some talent at midfield and defense. But I didn't have anyone who could even pretend to play forward.

People that receive new teams in Div. IV are generally screwed, because they have to compete with teams that have presumably been around for a while. There are a couple of new teams in my Div. IV series, and they get stomped on regularly. If you start in Div. IV, I think it's best just to take your lumps, build up the best team you can, and try to dominate whichever Div. V series you land in next season after relegation.

And as daedalus mentioned, the results of this weekend's match will determine whether or not I get a shot at Division III next season. If I win, I'm in. A draw, and I will most likely have a qualification match. Lose, and I probably lose the series title.

Can you say 'MOTS?' ;)

As I was reading through these posts, I kept telling myself that DK must have posted somewhere in here. Guess I missed telling my theory by a few hours.:)

Well said, I agree with your thoughts.

I was in contention by name only in my D4 series. Basically, I'm not in the same talent pool as the top two teams. My four losses this year were to them. A projected 10-4 record isn't bad, but isn't going to give you first place. For a while I sat in second place, but that was only for about 4 weeks until I got my first beating from the Superstars.

It's a good thing, because it means I can stockpile some talent and get better. Have a tough D4 series means I'll be more than ready for D3 when I finally get there.

rexalllsc

03-12-2003, 12:09 PM

Ardent, want to come to my place for a friendly next week? I want to see how my squad matches up...

Poli

03-12-2003, 12:31 PM

Rex, typically I play my B team in friendlies. My B team generally can't beat middle school teams.

In addition, we'll have to see how I do against Pilotman in the FOFC Cup. I doubt I win, but if I do, I'll have to continue in the Cup.

dacman

03-12-2003, 12:38 PM

Ardent's B squad pasted my B team 7-1 last week and I'm in 1st in my division.

Coffee Warlord

03-12-2003, 12:38 PM

Word to the wise. Assuming you are, like most people, training stamina, general, or set pieces in the offseason, this would be prime time to test out your starters in friendlies. Everyone on your team improves in those 3 fields, whether they play or not. Thusly, the only risk you run is injury.

JHandley

03-12-2003, 01:34 PM

Are injuries carried over from season to season?

DataKing

03-12-2003, 01:36 PM

Originally posted by JHandley
Are injuries carried over from season to season?

Unfortunately they are carried over. One of the weakness in the game engine, if you ask me. The off-season is just a couple of weeks as far as the engine is concerned, rather than a significant amount of time (months).

Yellow and red cards do not carry over, by the way.

Vince

03-12-2003, 01:41 PM

Ok, my team is guaranteed 5th place in D V for this season. I got my team like two weeks ago, and have decided to train playmaking...but I want to build up my experience with the 3-4-3 so I have an alternative. I know 4-5-1 would maximize my Midfielder training potential, but I think that 3-4-3 makes for a much better strategic alternative to the 4-5-1 when I usually run a 3-5-2 (that's my deduction, anyways...I'm really at a loss when it comes to soccer tactics :)). Anyhow, I was wondering if I should get a head start and start training stamina now, and get an extra week of it in, or do you all think I should keep going at playmaking until the offseason starts?

DataKing

03-12-2003, 01:50 PM

I don't see any problem with getting an early start on your stamina training. Just bear in mind that stamina training damages your form. The more you train stamina, the more damage will be done.

Stamina training is the single best way to improve your midfield play, and is highly advisable, so long as you can take the form hit.

Edit: Be prepared to pay higher player salaries next season, though. I am pretty sure that stamina level does affect the wage you will need to pay a player. These wages are re-calculated in a couple of weeks (at the same time that player aging occurs).

Vince

03-12-2003, 01:56 PM

Ok...well lets say I train stamina this week (by the way, does changing training mid-week hurt you?). I take a form hit...since I don't care and it's the offseason, lets say I do it again the following week (first week of the offseason) even though everyone says a two week stamina bit is too much of a form hit to make it worth it. Then, in the second week of the offseason and maybe even the first week of the next season, I train general. Does that sound good, or would I just tank the hell out of my form? My form isn't all that great right now...maybe 2 passables, 3 inad's and the rest worse...but my team is still a few pieces away from being competitive, so I'm not too worried about losing a few games because my form sucks, as I run a pretty good chance of losing the games even if my form is good.

DataKing

03-12-2003, 02:27 PM

So long as you don't mind the form hit that you will most likely take, then your plan sounds good to me. Unless you get very lucky with the form hits from stamina training, you will probably want a week of general training when you are done to help repair some of the damage.

And no, changing training type in mid-week doesn't hurt your training for that week.

Nyarlahotep

03-12-2003, 02:32 PM

General would be a waste during the break. Only players that play get general training:

Training type Improves ...for... Impairs
General (Form) (All who played a game during the week)
(Goaltending) ((Goaltending))
Stamina Stamina All Form
Set Pieces Set Pieces All
Defending Defending Defenders (little slower than others) ((Others))
Scoring Scoring Forwards ((others))
Winger Winger Wingers - little faster than other (Wing backs) ((others))
Shooting (Scoring) (Outfielders) ((Others))
(Set Pieces) ((All))
Short passes Passing Midfielders and forwards ((Others))
Playmaking Midfield Inner midfielders (Wingers) ((Others))
Goaltending Goaltending Goalkeepers

You might want to alternate stamina and set pieces and then train general the first week of next season.

DataKing

03-12-2003, 02:35 PM

Oops...I goofed. ;)

Nyarlahotep is right. You'd want to wait for general training until the regular season starts.

dacman

03-12-2003, 02:36 PM

Vince --- running a 3-4-3 against a good team will get you killed without absolute studs playing middie and defender. Not a tatic I would take with a young, new team. YMMV.

Try just sticking with 3-5-2 or 4-4-2 (always excellent). If you want/need more offense, set your winger(s) or the best passing/scoring inner middie to offensive with the 3-5-2. JMHO.

JHandley

03-12-2003, 02:37 PM

Oh the same note, I thought everything was reset at the begining of the year, Self Confidence, Team Spirit, Supporter and Sponsor psychology?

Nyarlahotep

03-12-2003, 02:40 PM

Yes, they are.

JHandley

03-12-2003, 02:47 PM

So if your team is no where near contention for even a top 4 spot in the table, why not just go all out on Stamina for the rest of the year? Then go on a more regular training routine after the beginning of the next season.

McSweeny

03-12-2003, 02:50 PM

that's exactly what i'm doing... is this a good idea?

DataKing

03-12-2003, 02:50 PM

You can go that route if you like, but at this point you're looking at 4 weeks of stamina training before the next regular season starts (assuming you change to stamina training this week). Four weeks is likely to place your players' forms in the crapper big-time.

Edit: Just a word of warning.

JHandley

03-12-2003, 02:55 PM

I think I'm missing something or I'm not explaining what I mean very well.

I understand that my form will go to hell, but I don't care as I've got nothing to play for this season. My main question is, will my form start at level at the beginning of next season?

DataKing

03-12-2003, 02:56 PM

Ahh OK...now I understand. :)

Form does not reset during the off-season. You would be starting next season with a team in generally lousy form.

McSweeny

03-12-2003, 02:59 PM

ohhhh ok so i won't go for 4 weeks straight of stamina, thanks

Nyarlahotep

03-12-2003, 03:05 PM

*edit* nevermind

daedalus

03-12-2003, 03:56 PM

Originally posted by DataKing
Can you say 'MOTS?' ;)

Is that what they call the "$215 000 question"? :)

Originally posted by rexalllsc
Ardent, want to come to my place for a friendly next week?

Just a thought . . . generally speaking, with a long term successful team like Ardent, DK or Horned, playing a friendly at their park is probably more beneficial to both teams than at a team just starting out. Supporters is a place where, ahem, size does matter.

Oh. And good to see you posting with us, Nyar. :)

Barkeep49

03-12-2003, 06:09 PM

So I'm confused: What do the wise ones recommend I train for the offseason as I am in week three of owning my club? Stamina and set pieces? Set pieces only?

McSweeny

03-12-2003, 06:10 PM

ok i put a got on the transfer list by mistake. he's one of my starting midfielders and i don't really want to sell him if i don't have to... can i just bid like 50000000000000 bucks on him and buy him myself?

Vince

03-12-2003, 06:11 PM

What I have gathered is that you should alternate between the two. They are the only types of training that lets everyone train regardless of whether or not they played a match. And multiple weeks of Stamina training in a row take your Form down too low to be of use. So alternation is the best way, apparently.

PS - Does anyone else think it sucks that training general only works on those that play in a match? I think realistically speaking, that should also work on everyone, as does Set Pieces and Stamina.

rexalllsc

03-12-2003, 06:22 PM

Coffee Warlord

03-12-2003, 06:23 PM

As with any advice I give, take with a grain of salt, but...

For everyone starting out, and hell, for everyone. I still reccommend pumping stamina in the offseason, form be damned. Almost every player pops in a single week, and it's just amazing how much better you'll play in the 2nd half with a high stamina team.

moriarty

03-12-2003, 06:25 PM

Originally posted by McSweeny
ok i put a got on the transfer list by mistake. he's one of my starting midfielders and i don't really want to sell him if i don't have to... can i just bid like 50000000000000 bucks on him and buy him myself?

DO NOT DO THAT! Even though you are paying yourself, you still have to owe an agent fee 5% plus a 2% fee to the original owner. 5% times 5000000000000 is alot of $$ (250000000000). Just wait until the bidding is near over and make sure you outbid everyone by the minimal amount (or place an outrageous bid on him now but less than the amout you have above).

Coffee Warlord

03-12-2003, 06:31 PM

Bid fairly high now. Assuming you have him listed at like 1k or something, bid like 100k for him. (if we're talking solid playmaker, 200k would be better)

If someone outbids you, well, oh well. You can buy yourself a better player with that money.

McSweeny

03-12-2003, 06:40 PM

good point coffee warlord

McSweeny

03-12-2003, 06:46 PM

dominating against a div 4 team in the first half so far. Including the first goal my team has scored under my ownership. Looks like the 3-5-2 is working better than the 4-5-1 i've been running.

Though i suppose i could be because it's my A team vs. his B team

daedalus

03-12-2003, 06:50 PM

Definitely agree with Coffee Warlord. As an example, my team stole a win from the 2nd place team in our serie this past week that I honestly have to attribute purely to our stamina training. In the first half, they controlled the ball 57% of the time and was ahead 1-0. They were winning 2-0 and basically had my team shutdown until the 68th minute. We made our comeback after that to steal that win.

As for stamina training and the consequence to forms, I think the reward is worth the price. While I wouldn't recommend it for folks with sanity, I trained stamina for quite a few weeks in a row in the middle of this season. So, yeah, you CAN survive. I had trained forms up for two weeks BEFORE starting my stamina training. Then I took two weeks afterward to bring forms back to norm. The combined four weeks is why I wouldn't recommend being quite as stupid as me - I was a smidge perturbed because we kept giving away games by running out of gas, LOTS of games where my central defenders would be doing their jobs for 75 minutes then the other teams' forwards would be running wild (not unlike Hulkamaniacs) on us. I just mentioned it as a point that you CAN survive, in spite of it all.

For teams starting out, training stamina for awhile is DEFINITELY recommended. Even though your skills may be a bit behind another team, you still may be able to pull out a game just by outlasting them.

McSweeny

03-12-2003, 07:48 PM

just thumped a D 4 team in my friendly 4-0 one of my strikers had a hattrick. Anyone looking a friendly next week? I'd love to go visit one of you big boys and take home a decent amount of cash to help me clear this debt

moriarty

03-12-2003, 08:13 PM

Just tied Astral Haze 2-2 in my friendly. Unfortunate thing was his guys took out two of my youngsters right before off season training.

Anyone know if the stamina training affects injured players (or should I run out and get a few Dr's)?

rexalllsc

03-12-2003, 08:21 PM

Anyone else having problems getting to hattrick?

NevStar

03-12-2003, 08:40 PM

Moriarty - if your players are injured severely they do not train.

In the player's detail screen you'll see
"17 years, inadequate form, injured (3 weeks) "

replaced with
"17 years, inadequate form, injured but training"

when they are able to get training; this is usually when they're down to 1 week out.

Young players heal faster than old ones. You also might want to hire several doctors to get them healed before the off season.

Easy Mac

03-12-2003, 09:10 PM

I'm kinda pissed man.

I was playing a friendly against a guy who is like 4th in his division (5th division, but no one with more that 26 points, a tight division), and he starts his first team. I was using my 2nd string and got waxed.

I was hoping I would play his reserves, but I guess not. Does getting killed hurt your players in any way?

And is 80,000 good for a passable keeper.

Coffee Warlord

03-12-2003, 09:14 PM

Friendlies have no bearing on anything but training.

Doug5984

03-12-2003, 09:21 PM

Originally posted by Easy Mac

And is 80,000 good for a passable keeper.

Yeah its a pretty good price, i see you got Rafael Fernández (8721769), acctually right before you got him I sent a PM to MikeVic telling him there was a passable keeper with passable form selling for 80k in the US. He didn't get the PM in time, but it is nice to see another FOCer getting him.

Easy Mac

03-12-2003, 09:24 PM

Originally posted by Doug5984
Yeah its a pretty good price, i see you got Rafael Fernández (8721769), acctually right before you got him I sent a PM to MikeVic telling him there was a passable keeper with passable form selling for 80k in the US. He didn't get the PM in time, but it is nice to see another FOCer getting him.

Yeah, i know the feeling. I saw a guy who was solid in playmaking and leadership, and inadequate in 2 other places and sympathetic available for like $1,000, but he was expiring that minute, and by the time I put in the bid, it was too late.

Vince

03-12-2003, 10:08 PM

Wow, solid playmaking alone is totally worth 1,000...that's amazing. Bummer you didn't get the bid in on time.

Easy Mac

03-12-2003, 10:25 PM

Originally posted by Vince
Wow, solid playmaking alone is totally worth 1,000...that's amazing. Bummer you didn't get the bid in on time.

I might have been wrong, but I think thats what it was.

I've noticed better players tend to slip through the crack if the deadline is during games. I think most people check the 2 hour til deadline transfer list, but if it is around gametime, they tend to forget. I've picked up some decent, trainable guys this way (1-2 passables) for relatively cheap.

sterlingice

03-12-2003, 10:54 PM

I was hoping I would play his reserves, but I guess not. Does getting killed hurt your players in any way?

And is 80,000 good for a passable keeper.

I had a 5 game friendly losing streak and my fans couldn't give a damn as long as I won my fixtures.

$80K is really good for a passable keeper as long as he's not too old.

Yeah, i know the feeling. I saw a guy who was solid in playmaking and leadership, and inadequate in 2 other places and sympathetic available for like $1,000, but he was expiring that minute, and by the time I put in the bid, it was too late.

I seriously doubt that's what it was. Probably solid stamina- solid playmakers are almost always $30K and up a couple of hours before they are done in even the backwater countries where we love to shop. With good reason, since they typically end over $100K. Although I suppose there's a really remote possibility that you did see one that just flat out slipped through the cracks or maybe he was really old and no one wanted to pay.

SI

Easy Mac

03-12-2003, 10:57 PM

Well, I know the kid was excellent in stamina and solid in something else. I was actually just looking for clowns for my team.

And the passabel keeper was 19.

HeavyReign

03-12-2003, 11:46 PM

Originally posted by McSweeny
just thumped a D 4 team in my friendly 4-0 one of my strikers had a hattrick. Anyone looking a friendly next week? I'd love to go visit one of you big boys and take home a decent amount of cash to help me clear this debt

I got my team the same day you did so the starting teams are probably on a similar level other than the differences in player purchases. I would think my starters would have given you a better match. Can't wait to drop down to V next year.