Why does my Defense suck so bad????

[Higgs44]

I have good to very good players on my defense. Ive read the help file Defensive Pass Coverage Screen, and set up the defense accordingly per situations. I do pretty well in scouting my opponents and knowing when they run and pass. Yet im constantly getting torched every game while gambling on a pass, expecting a pass, etc... My run defense seems ok, but against the pass, its like it doesnt matter, i get torched every time.

An example... i just played a game against an opponent, where it was obvious he would pass at least 70% of the time (he passed 66%), so I set my game plan defensively to combat the pass a lot more than the run... the result was just unbelievable.

28/39 314 yards 5 TDs. And most of his incompletions came late in the game when it was out of reach. For most of the game he was over 80%.

The WRs who killed me... 42/42 who's all get downfield and nothing else and a 35/35 whos best attribute is Special Teams.

Its not like my defense is garbage either, which just makes me sick.

DE 52/52
DE 41/41
NT 77/77
SILB 36/64
WILB 24/55
SLB 23/63
WLB 62/62 Sack Machine 29 sacks in first 2 seasons.
CB 22/45
CB 54/54
SS 56/56
FS 66/66

Any help is appreciated. This kind of stuff really has me losing interest in the game and questioning the decision to buy it.

[Ben E Lou]

Let's see....

1. You don't have very good players on your defense. You have one very weak CB, and probably get very little help from your linebackers in coverage. Also, your pass rush probably isn't all that good overall. (WLBs with the right skills are almost always sack machines in the 3-4 in FOF, fyi.)

2. My guess is that you're overdoing your pass expectation. If you do too much of any thing in FOF, you get hurt overall.

3. I wonder about your sample size here. Is this just a case of bad dice rolls?

[Higgs44]

I knew that would be said for the most part, which is why I should have posted my OTHER teams defense... Which I get about the same futility.

DE 62/62 52 and 59 pass rush skills, 80 run D
DE 66/66 78 and 80 pass rush skills, 58 run D
NT 79/79 95 and 66 pass rush skills, 100 run D
SILB 47/47 Run stopper
WILB 48/48 decent in m2m, more of a pass rusher
SLB 75/75 great in coverage
WLB 34/62 great pass rusher
CB 66/66 at least 70 in all bars from run d to punish hit, except zone 61
CB 55/55 very good bars
SS 48/48 very good bars, light in m2m and endurance
FS 33/40 decent coverage bars, poor run

[Higgs44]

Let's see....

1. You don't have very good players on your defense. You have one very weak CB, and probably get very little help from your linebackers in coverage. Also, your pass rush probably isn't all that good overall. (WLBs with the right skills are almost always sack machines in the 3-4 in FOF, fyi.)

2. My guess is that you're overdoing your pass expectation. If you do too much of any thing in FOF, you get hurt overall.

3. I wonder about your sample size here. Is this just a case of bad dice rolls?

I have 8 sacks (4 in each), 12 hurries and 6 QB knock downs in 2 games so far with the first defense,

So if im guessing correctly that hes passing on just about all of his plays, thats a bad thing???? I mean he only ran for 78 yards, so its not like I was guessing wrong.

This has been going on for an entire season + since Ive assembled the 2nd defense. Just seems no matter what i do, teams just shred me through the air.

[Nogram]

Dime. Never Blitz. Let them run on you and focus on stopping the pass.

[bulletsponge]

i shouldnt say this cause im afraid it will bite me in the ass, but run less 3 and 4 deep zones in heavy pass situations

[Higgs44]

i shouldnt say this cause im afraid it will bite me in the ass, but run less 3 and 4 deep zones in heavy pass situations

bullet... Ive been doing this already. I was told long ago about this. I rarely use 4 deep, and 3 deep isnt that high.

[bulletsponge]

then get better defensive players, and let them gel. no it isnt fast and easy, but its the best way

[Yoda]

Running 3 or 4 deep zones when you are playing a 3-4 defense isn't always a bad thing. It really depends on the coverage skills of your LB's.

To me, playing defense in FoF is about putting your best players in position to make the plays. If that means playing a 'base' defense in passing situations, then do it. It does no good to have a 60/60 LB sitting on the bench while your 39/39 3rd for 4th DB is on the field for 70% of your plays.

[Nogram]

Run a test...

Run a season with the base defense (REX), then run one with Zero blitzing and only Dime, the results may SHOCK you. It is close to a bug, so use at your own discretion.

[Yoda]

Sure, I'll bite:
Base Season-
Pass Defense:
Att:563
Comp:315
Yards:3717
Rate: 73.0
Rush Defense:
Att:337
Yards:1464

OpPPG: 18.5
YPG: 309.1
OpFumb: 12
Int: 22

All Dime Season-
Pass Defense:
Att:543
Comp:313
Yards:3057
Rate: 73.9
Rush Defense:
Att:389
Yards:2162

OpPPG: 20.6
YPG: 319.1
OpFumb: 9
Int: 14

Guess I could run more than a 1 season sample set.... what was I suppsed to see? Same passing stats except less yardage, giving up alot more running?

[bmerryman]

Quote from Jim Gindin Q & A:

"Being able to limit the pass depends more heavily on your personnel than anything else, so a pair of excellent cover cornerbacks is the cornerstone of a successful defense."

[3ric]

Related question... are there some situations in which you could set your defensive gameplan to either 100% aggressive run defense or 100% aggressive pass defense with any long-term success?

[nickelback]

You know what would be nice, a Defensive Gameplan Library similar to the offensive one. It is quite obvious that most people have no clue on defense, including myself. I see guys writing up dynasties and posting pictures from their team summaries screen and it is insane how good those defenses are sometimes. Just have no clue what I'm doing wrong but it almost seems like the game is broke on the defensive side.

[gstelmack]

In none of the rosters above did you post the stats of your nickel and dime DBs. With how often the game loves to force you into nickel and dime, those backs can make or break a defensive game plan.

[Tormaz]

Defense to me is more about getting big red bars.

Once you have that many things will fall into place.

[TheMeat]

This is a very interesting thread to me because I also sturggle on defense. I have never changed much on my defenses and almost always use REX. Although I've been told that is bad idea I just hadn't gotten around to really digging into the testing of various offenses.

I just finished a season of a MP league with a friend and my defensive players are quite a bit better than his, 5-10 pts OVR better than his at every position. His defense has done better than mine for about 6 years straight, although my pass offense is a juggernaut my pass D has been worst in the league 5 out of 6 years. But because I had let my defense go to ruin before rebuilding it the last three years my cohesion sucks (55 Dline and 61 Secondary). After pouring over the numbers from the past few years I have come to two shaky hypotheses:


Cohesion matters more on defense than it does on offense.
Since I run a very heavy pass offense it puts a lot of pressure on my pass defense and using the REX settings is a bad idea.
So number 1 is a simply fix: TIME. But I will be commencing defensive testing starting tonight on how to adjust my D to the fact that they see close to 700 pass plays every year, but only 300+ run plays since my team is usually leading against CPU teams.

I share your frustration Higgs, but don't give up! if the game were easy it'd be boring, you will eventually figure out a defensive strategy and when you do it will bring a sense of accomplishment.

Also by looking at your first defensive team I will point out the (perhaps obvious) point that a 22/99 player is just a 22 right now, not a 99. These players will perform like a 22 and since they're not developed I would guess they're young and that means laclustre cohesion.

[Yoda]

Cohesion is important for defense.

In game planning, REX is WAY to agressive (for my taste, anyway).

[Higgs44]

Quote from Jim Gindin Q & A:

"Being able to limit the pass depends more heavily on your personnel than anything else, so a pair of excellent cover cornerbacks is the cornerstone of a successful defense."


My 2 CBs are pretty good imo.

LCB
m2m 70
zone 61
bnr 72
pd 76
ph 77
int 28 <---- hands of stone

RCB
m2m 67
zone 40
bnr 75
pd 71
ph 39
int 94

Nickle
m2m 40/59
zone 47/50
bnr 38/49
pd 28/36
ph 12
int 33/54

Dime (which I dont use very often)
m2m 75
zone 71
bnr 0
pd 44
ph 9
int 12

Cohesion for D Front and secondary is 73 each

[Higgs44]

well... 2nd defense got waxed yet again... just doesnt make any sense to me, and im pretty close to calling it a day with this game.

[Yoda]

Quote from Jim Gindin Q & A:

"Being able to limit the pass depends more heavily on your personnel than anything else, so a pair of excellent cover cornerbacks is the cornerstone of a successful defense."

That's a load of BS.

I have 2 great CB's in the GEFL and they can't stop crap.

I've had better success with 40-50 rated CB's than those guys.

[Sef0r]

That's a load of BS.

I have 2 great CB's in the GEFL and they can't stop crap.

I've had better success with 40-50 rated CB's than those guys.

I've had the same problem with who my scout rates as being great, I end up using low rated players who seem to play better. That is all in SP as I am only just experiencing MP and find I only have 1 corner who has an average pass def rating.

[Higgs44]

I honestly dont see the point in drafting defensive players anymore. The greatest of em arent half as good as mediocre offensive players.

[bmerryman]

That's a load of BS.

I have 2 great CB's in the GEFL and they can't stop crap.

I've had better success with 40-50 rated CB's than those guys.

I disagree. The better defenses I see tend to have good corners. Do all of them? No.

[Sef0r]

Obviously that depends on what "good corners" actually means.
Better bar ratings or better play ratings?

The best defence I had in SP (sorry, no real MP experience yet) has 40/40 and 45/52 rated corners. I had a defense with 80+ rated corners, both of them and they played average. My lower rated corners played well, defended 33 balls between them both, 7 INTs between them.

However in saying that, I've also had high BAR corners who actually played well and low BAR corners who played badly....

[RendeR]

Obviously that depends on what "good corners" actually means.
Better bar ratings or better play ratings?

The best defence I had in SP (sorry, no real MP experience yet) has 40/40 and 45/52 rated corners. I had a defense with 80+ rated corners, both of them and they played average. My lower rated corners played well, defended 33 balls between them both, 7 INTs between them.

However in saying that, I've also had high BAR corners who actually played well and low BAR corners who played badly....


I would say that your results are proof that your highly rated corners were doing exactly what they're meant to.

2 80+rated corners basically shut down or at the least make the QB check off to a 3rd and 4th receiver who is covered by your LB's or your nickel n Dime players. Those players rack up the stats because they're seeing FAR more action than the main receivers that your big 2 are covering.


I have to join the bandwagon of "My defense has decent players but they just can't stop anything". Its frustrating. I'm gonna try the all Dime zero blitz idea in a few games and see if anything changes.

[Hammer]

Its seems to me, that the best defense in this game is great offense. If you can get a lead, and get into pass defense, its much easier to shut a passing game down.

I don't worry too much about CBs, I invest primarily on offense. This approach has yielded some very good results.

It all comes back to great QBx1, WRx2. Thats the easiest way to win in this game.

[Yoda]

I disagree with that statement. While a good offense does help, it's not the end all, be all.

Last season in the TFL my Falcons were one of the leagues worst offenses, averaging 12.8 ppg, yet my defense limited my opponents to 14.0 ppg.

[Hammer]

No, I don't think we are far apart Yoda. I don't think its everything, but it helps. If you can get a team to pass into your aggressive pass defense you have an advantage, thats all I was saying.

From there go about business as usual. Get the right personnel and gameplan the best you can. I tend to invest in system defensive players, red bars where I want them. Not highly rated players so much. Having a good offense puts you one step ahead in the race to build a good defense, but it doesn't mean you forget your defense entirely.

[beargrowlz]

well... 2nd defense got waxed yet again... just doesnt make any sense to me, and im pretty close to calling it a day with this game.

Maybe your expectations are too high? Or maybe you just notice the negative your team produces? Your HFL defense - the one where you were starting a CB with a 9 B&R and 22 zone in the game that started this discussion - is 12th in fewest passing yards allowed, 12th in opponent passer rating and 12th in opponent passes defensed. Relative to the rest of the league you're playing better than average pass defense.

In the game before Staubach torched you, you only allowed 160 yards passing. In the four games after, you allowed 195, 180, 172 and 148 yards passing.

I think maybe you're just looking for a perfection that isn't - and shouldn't - be there.



Cheers,
-Bear

[beargrowlz]

dola

To expound upon my last post, there are any numbers of reasons why you got hammerred in that one game and played well in others.

1) Maybe your secondary isn't as good as you think it is
2) Maybe you've got players with mismatched pass coverages, some good at one, some at another
3) Despite calling all pass defenses maybe you didn't have the players in the pass coverages that utilize their talents the best
4) Maybe you overused certain pass coverages
5) Maybe you got outcoached
6) Maybe Detroit got some damn lucky dice rolls and you got some damn poor ones

Any number of things can happen in a one off situation. Add to that the fact that defensive gameplanning isn't as intutitive or user friendly as it could be and you've got the recipe for a defensive meltdown. Even the best of defenses lay an egg occassionally.

But as I wrote above, focusing on one game - or 2 or 3 - is simply too small a sample size. To see if your defense has played well you need to view that game in the context of the entire season.



Cheers,
-Bear

[Yoda]

No, I don't think we are far apart Yoda. I don't think its everything, but it helps. If you can get a team to pass into your aggressive pass defense you have an advantage, thats all I was saying.

From there go about business as usual. Get the right personnel and gameplan the best you can. I tend to invest in system defensive players, red bars where I want them. Not highly rated players so much. Having a good offense puts you one step ahead in the race to build a good defense, but it doesn't mean you forget your defense entirely.

True.

That I agree with. I think bars in the right places that fit in a defensive scheme is the way to go.

And having an offense that can stay on the field and generate points definately helps.

[Yoda]

If you have a 75/75 CB who sucks at BNR coverage and you are playing BNR 30% of the time... that's a mistake.

[Sef0r]

If you have a 75/75 CB who sucks at BNR coverage and you are playing BNR 30% of the time... that's a mistake.

How true is that? How true is anything we would expect to be logical?

Has Jim ever responded to this as being a problem?
I've built defences and got players required for those defences only to fail most of the time.
I have moved from a 4-3 BnR to a 3-4 BnR where the DBs have basically remained the same.

Cornerbacks who are good/very good at M2M, BnR.
Safeties who are good/very good at M2M, Zone.

I played mostly 2 Deep BnR and FAIL.
Sometimes I want to know for sure that when I play a specific type of DEF and have the players that can actually play THAT defence I want it to work sometimes.

[Hammer]

You know, its seems to me some people expect all the luck to go there way. They expect everything to go the way they want it to go. They can't accept that sometimes they will meet a better player/better man on that day. Its easy to blame the game, rather than admit you got outplayed or outcoached. Not aimed at anyone in particular, just a general observation.

[Shard77]

You know, its seems to me some people expect all the luck to go there way. They expect everything to go the way they want it to go. They can't accept that sometimes they will meet a better player/better man on that day. Its easy to blame the game, rather than admit you got outplayed or outcoached. Not aimed at anyone in particular, just a general observation.

I agree this is true to an extent.

One thing to keep in mind is that, in FOF, we only have two primary factors with which to base our performance expectations: a player's bars and his statistics.

In RL, coaches can factor in how a player looks on the practice field and use that to determine how he fits into a team's plans. For example, here in New England, fans were clamoring for the Pats to cut Matt Cassell during the pre-season because he was playing very poorly during games. However, Belicheck obviously knew something that the rest of us didn't because he stuck with him and we all know how that turned out. Obviously, this isn't possible in a text-sim.

I think the frustration sets in when GM's are facing teams with significantly inferior talent ratings-wise and still get beat handily. For example, if I have a team with a decent offense and a defense with veteran players rated primarily in the 50's and 60's and I'm facing an opposing QB rated 35 I should expect to win that game most of the time. Yes, there is the "any given Sunday" axiom to consider, but most days my team should prevail.

If teams with superior ratings talent-wise are getting consistently beaten by inferior teams, it speaks to either: a) poor game planning, b) a flaw in the game logic, or c) a combination of the two.

[beargrowlz]

I agree this is true to an extent.

One thing to keep in mind is that, in FOF, we only have two primary factors with which to base our performance expectations: a player's bars and his statistics.

In RL, coaches can factor in how a player looks on the practice field and use that to determine how he fits into a team's plans. For example, here in New England, fans were clamoring for the Pats to cut Matt Cassell during the pre-season because he was playing very poorly during games. However, Belicheck obviously knew something that the rest of us didn't because he stuck with him and we all know how that turned out. Obviously, this isn't possible in a text-sim.

I think the frustration sets in when GM's are facing teams with significantly inferior talent ratings-wise and still get beat handily. For example, if I have a team with a decent offense and a defense with veteran players rated primarily in the 50's and 60's and I'm facing an opposing QB rated 35 I should expect to win that game most of the time. Yes, there is the "any given Sunday" axiom to consider, but most days my team should prevail.

If teams with superior ratings talent-wise are getting consistently beaten by inferior teams, it speaks to either: a) poor game planning, b) a flaw in the game logic, or c) a combination of the two.

I agree with Hammer entirely. We're all guilty of this - myself included - as you sit there and wonder why you're getting scorched on a particular day.

I think the difficulty here is two-fold in the fact that a) the complaints generally involve "one off" games - the "Any Given Sunday" concept - and that ratings can be misleading.

In the situation that started this discussion the team's defense in question was playing good pass defense over a series of games and had one bad game. Even a great pass defense is going to have a bad day sometimes because of dice rolls. When one of your corners is a 9 BnR and a 22 zone and your defense has been playing very well, the odds of you having a bad defensive day increase dramatically every game you play - the odds are just going to catch up to you.

Beyond that, all other things being equal (same quality team owner/gameplan/injuries/coaching staff etc), better teams should beat worse teams obviously. But the fewer games you take into account the more luck and less skill/talent level is involved. I don't mean to belabor the obvious - or maybe I do - but the more times you play the more times the better team should win - all other things being equal. But in one game? The randomness is just too prevalent.

And that's really what we're discussing when the problem is one bad pass defense day out of seven games.

The other thing that throws a wrench in the "most talented team" argument is that there are some 50 rated corners who really can't play pass defense. They get the overall ratings bump because of their run defense, their return or special teams skills, play diagnosis or because they excel in one coverage area - or a combination of that stuff.

Finally, teams that have cover players with mismatched pass defenses are worse than their overall ratings advantage would lead you to believe. Having a 60 rated corner that excels at m2m but stinks at BnR and a 60 rated corner that excels at BnR but stinks at m2m negates half your coverage on each play.

I'll be the first to admit that defensive game planning is not as intuitive as it should be and devising a pass coverage scheme with the limited insight into how they work mechanically is problematic at best. But I think most complaints can be attributed to just bad luck, being outcoached, having mismatched players, over-using coverages - a particular team not being as good as it's owner thinks it is - we all have blinders on when it comes to our own guys - or an opponent not being as bad as an owner thinks they are.

But ultimately one game tells me nothing because as Hammer - and Mick Jagger before him - said, "You can't always get what you want".



Cheers,
-Bear

[Yoda]

I think that some people are stuck in a 'Madden' state of mind. Where they average 35+ ppg and allow less than 10 per game.

One of the biggest flaws with FoF is a lack of documentation.

I'll admit, I do enjoy somewhat going in a figuring somethings out. On the other hand, there are somethings I feel that sould be documented.

One of the flaws in FoF, is that unlike the NFL, the defense doesn't get to match up.

In the NFL, if a 3rd WR comes on the field, the defense is allowed to substitute to match it. FoF doesn't account for this. Yes, in 4 and 5 WR situations, FoF will force you into Nickle/Dime coverages.

I would rather see it a choice, if the offense is in this formation/set these are the defenses I want to run.

Example, if the offense has 3 WR's, I always want to be in a nickle package.

But, as far as the current game goes, I think that it's harder for people to tell when a defense is working, as opposed to an offense working.

I found that until I started watching ALL my games, that I didn't have an idea of really what my defense was doing.

[Sef0r]

I agree with you Yoda, the worse thing about this game defensively for me are:

Inability to set a particular Defensive formation to an offensive set, i.e. Nickle to match up to a 3WR set, 1 deep with safety in the box on 2TE or goalline sets.
The WLB blizting ALL THE TIME in the 3-4 defense should be an option.

[Higgs44]

Heres a problem I have.

Just had a pre season game in which I set my Defense to play a TON of pass defense, disregarding run defense. Granted i did not have all of my regulars in there, but still, what happened is just ridiculous.

24/25 240 yards 3 TDs

Again, most of my regulars were not in there, but come on. Im playing Pass defense and the opposing QBs only have 1 incompletion??? Its getting to joke status.

[Ben E Lou]

2. My guess is that you're overdoing your pass expectation. If you do too much of any thing in FOF, you get hurt overall..

[Ben E Lou]

Dola:

I'm not 100% certain that expectation falls into "things not to do too much of," but I know that Jim himself clarified in one of the Q&As (http://www.operationsports.com/fofc/showthread.php?t=62153) that overdoing some things on defense hurts you.

[Higgs44]

.


How does that make any sense at all? If im looking for a Pass, and hes passing, how is that a bad thing?????

Its not like im looking for a run and hes throwing the ball. Im friggen expecting pass.

What your saying is, I should play 50/50 all game regardless of down and distance... according to you thats how you play correct defense.

[Ben E Lou]

Solecismic Q & A: Offensive and Defensive Familiarity - Front Office Football Central (http://www.operationsports.com/fofc/showthread.php?t=62153)

[Higgs44]

according to my GP... my coverages fell within these answers. i did NOT have more than 40% of any coverage.

So again, I ask, if im guessing pass and hes passing, why is it so hard to stop???

If what your saying is I shouldnt be guessing correctly, then what i said is correct. Defense is not worth drafting. There are FAR more formations to run offensively than defensively, meaning the "familiar" message is far easier to see on defense and recognize for a OC. If its all about "tendancies", then its not worth it.

[Ben E Lou]

according to my GP... my coverages fell within these answers. i did NOT have more than 40% of any coverage.

So again, I ask, if im guessing pass and hes passing, why is it so hard to stop???

If what your saying is I shouldnt be guessing correctly, then what i said is correct. Defense is not worth drafting. There are FAR more formations to run offensively than defensively, meaning the "familiar" message is far easier to see on defense and recognize for a OC. If its all about "tendancies", then its not worth it.

You may have missed this part:

Yes, that's true, though not on quite as extensive a scale (maybe half the code, same concept). The offensive coordinator is looking at your pass coverage and defensive expectations (run, pass, aggressive) in various situations. The results are far less dramatic, never more than even the minimum level of what would generate a "familiar" message on offense. In the future, I see this giving more life to the play-by-play, but for now, it doesn't belong there.

Again, nothing for sure, but he certainly did lump in expectations there.

And I'd disagree about drafting. Defense (assuming you don't have big leads) is all about getting big red bars on that side of the ball, and not doign anything extreme in any direction with your game plan.

[Higgs44]

You may have missed this part:



Again, nothing for sure, but he certainly did lump in expectations there.

And I'd disagree about drafting. Defense (assuming you don't have big leads) is all about getting big red bars on that side of the ball, and not doign anything extreme in any direction with your game plan.

I saw it... Ive never been one to go to extremes on aggressive settings, Ive fallen into the middle more, unless its an obvious passing situation, ie 3rd and 15 or so, then yeah, im gonna bump up aggressive passing D.

My Defenses tend to get more of the "expecting" messages, than the "aggressively expecting".

[Ben E Lou]

I read that as *any* expectations, not just aggressive, and going back to what you said...

Heres a problem I have.

Just had a pre season game in which I set my Defense to play a TON of pass defense, disregarding run defense. Granted i did not have all of my regulars in there, but still, what happened is just ridiculous.

24/25 240 yards 3 TDs

Again, most of my regulars were not in there, but come on. Im playing Pass defense and the opposing QBs only have 1 incompletion??? Its getting to joke status....I would think that there's at least a chance that you got dinged because of your expectations being too heavily slanted in one direction.

[Higgs44]

you would think, that it should take at least a half or so to recognize what im doing regardless? Instead get thumped from kickoff to end of game???

and by disregarding run d, im talking a 70-30 split on pass D to run D.

[beargrowlz]

Heres a problem I have.

Just had a pre season game in which I set my Defense to play a TON of pass defense, disregarding run defense. Granted i did not have all of my regulars in there, but still, what happened is just ridiculous.

24/25 240 yards 3 TDs

Again, most of my regulars were not in there, but come on. Im playing Pass defense and the opposing QBs only have 1 incompletion??? Its getting to joke status.

Statistical aberration due to small sample size.



Cheers,
-Bear

[RendeR]

Statistical aberration due to small sample size.



Cheers,
-Bear


Perhaps in his case, but in the case of my bengals team with good players (as apposed to ave or VG players) on the entire defense, I've gone through the last 30 games getting shredded by the pass.

No matter the percentages I play wehter its heavily slanted to ther un or 80-20 to the pass.

This is what is really frustrating. you would think just by chance we'd find an offense having a bad day and not give up 300+ passing yards. yet that doesn't happen.

If the true limitation on defense is having very good to excellent players at every position then the game itself is broken and needs fixing. Its not an appropriate representation of reality in that case. Its not even close.

[beargrowlz]

Perhaps in his case, but in the case of my bengals team with good players (as apposed to ave or VG players) on the entire defense, I've gone through the last 30 games getting shredded by the pass.

Right. I'm not saying he's not a bad defensive play caller or that his defense doesn't suck - or that there isn't anything wrong or that the game can't be improved defensively - I'm just saying that you can't tell anything by looking at one game. You need to look at a defense as part of a body of work. 30 games is a good number.


No matter the percentages I play wehter its heavily slanted to ther un or 80-20 to the pass.

This is what is really frustrating. you would think just by chance we'd find an offense having a bad day and not give up 300+ passing yards. yet that doesn't happen.

There is something horridly wrong (no offense meant) with your playcalling if you have gone 30 games and not allowed less than 300 yards passing in a game or had one off day by an opposing passer against you. I would have thought that to be a mathematical impossibility even in a league where the offensive talent levels are absurd and the defensive players putrid on a team and where the defense was deliberately called wrong.


If the true limitation on defense is having very good to excellent players at every position then the game itself is broken and needs fixing. Its not an appropriate representation of reality in that case. Its not even close.

The true limitation on anything is always talent. The more talent you have the better you can be, the less talent, the less better you can be. That's true in the NFL as well as FOF. Even great schemers like Bill Bellichek or Bill Walsh are/were ultimately limited by the talent they had.

That being said, it's not a total crapshoot based simply on big red bars. With "talent level X" you can develop a defensive gameplan that is X+? or X-?. Without having any idea what is in your gameplan, just a few ideas that may help - things that have worked for me (some go against the grain of coventional FOF logic I think).

1) Try and coordinate the coverages your defenders play. You wants players that play good B&R in the game when you play B&R and good m2m defenders in when you're playing m2m, etc.
2) Don't play bump & run on obvious passing situations, no matter how good your B&R guys are.
3) The best pass defense is a good pass rush. Find players that are good at rushing the passer. A 3-4 WLB and 4-3 DE's that excel at rushing the passer will make your coverage better.
4) Worry less about yardage given up and more about points given up. This may not apply to you, but if your team is ahead a lot you're going to give up more passing yards - teams will throw more to catch up.
5) Don't blitz on 3rd down.
6) Use dime coverage on 3rd down in passing situations
7) Use m2m, 3 deep and 4-deep on 3rd down in passing situations.
8) Don't be afraid to overload your playcalling. For example, on 3rd and 8 play 100% aggressive pass.
9) Mix your pass coverages. Make sure that you're not calling B&R more than 50% of the time overall and the other coverages more than 40% of the time overall. Why? Because that's what the game designer said to do. *shrug*

Maybe some of those things listed will help. I'm sure many will disagree with some, but they generally work for me.



Cheers,
-Bear

[Hammer]

Random question. In a 3-4 does the WLB still blitz in the dime package?

[Higgs44]

Right. I'm not saying he's not a bad defensive play caller or that his defense doesn't suck - or that there isn't anything wrong or that the game can't be improved defensively - I'm just saying that you can't tell anything by looking at one game. You need to look at a defense as part of a body of work. 30 games is a good number.




There is something horridly wrong (no offense meant) with your playcalling if you have gone 30 games and not allowed less than 300 yards passing in a game or had one off day by an opposing passer against you. I would have thought that to be a mathematical impossibility even in a league where the offensive talent levels are absurd and the defensive players putrid on a team and where the defense was deliberately called wrong.




The true limitation on anything is always talent. The more talent you have the better you can be, the less talent, the less better you can be. That's true in the NFL as well as FOF. Even great schemers like Bill Bellichek or Bill Walsh are/were ultimately limited by the talent they had.

That being said, it's not a total crapshoot based simply on big red bars. With "talent level X" you can develop a defensive gameplan that is X+? or X-?. Without having any idea what is in your gameplan, just a few ideas that may help - things that have worked for me (some go against the grain of coventional FOF logic I think).

1) Try and coordinate the coverages your defenders play. You wants players that play good B&R in the game when you play B&R and good m2m defenders in when you're playing m2m, etc.
2) Don't play bump & run on obvious passing situations, no matter how good your B&R guys are.
3) The best pass defense is a good pass rush. Find players that are good at rushing the passer. A 3-4 WLB and 4-3 DE's that excel at rushing the passer will make your coverage better.
4) Worry less about yardage given up and more about points given up. This may not apply to you, but if your team is ahead a lot you're going to give up more passing yards - teams will throw more to catch up.
5) Don't blitz on 3rd down.
6) Use dime coverage on 3rd down in passing situations
7) Use m2m, 3 deep and 4-deep on 3rd down in passing situations.
8) Don't be afraid to overload your playcalling. For example, on 3rd and 8 play 100% aggressive pass.
9) Mix your pass coverages. Make sure that you're not calling B&R more than 50% of the time overall and the other coverages more than 40% of the time overall. Why? Because that's what the game designer said to do. *shrug*

Maybe some of those things listed will help. I'm sure many will disagree with some, but they generally work for me.



Cheers,
-Bear

No offense Bear, but ive tried just about all of your theories... my Defense is very good bars wise and it doesnt matter.

My front 4 consisted of 2 excellent pass rushers, an absolute stud DT, who has excellent rushing bars, my 2nd DT was good, not great, but still formidable... had 2 very good CB, 1 being a borderline stud.

Got next to no pass rush that slowed down any passing attack, after 2 seasons. So I switched to a 3-4 and grabbed a pass rushing WLB in hopes I could garner some pressure and help out the pass defense, well that hasnt worked either. Now my borderline stud CB is gone, Ive traded him.

points given up
435
374
389
360

My last 4 seasons. The most points i gave up came last year, in which my defense was at its best bars wise.


DE 62/62 52 and 59 pass rush skills, 80 run D
DE 66/66 78 and 80 pass rush skills, 58 run D
NT 79/79 95 and 66 pass rush skills, 100 run D
SILB 47/47 Run stopper
WILB 48/48 decent in m2m, more of a pass rusher
SLB 75/75 great in coverage
WLB 34/62 great pass rusher
CB 66/66 at least 70 in all bars from run d to punish hit, except zone 61
CB 55/55 very good bars
SS 48/48 very good bars, light in m2m and endurance
FS 33/40 decent coverage bars, poor run

[beargrowlz]

Random question. In a 3-4 does the WLB still blitz in the dime package?

So far as I have been able to figure out, no. The WLB will not rush the passer in a 3-4 dime unless you set the SLB to blitz in the dime - I know that looks weird, but that appears to be the case from my observations.

I move my WLB to DE in the dime unless I have two better pass rushing DE's.



Cheers,
-Bear

[beargrowlz]

No offense Bear, but ive tried just about all of your theories... my Defense is very good bars wise and it doesnt matter....


No offense taken.

But view the statistics within the context of the league you're playing in - and only within that context.

For example, how long have you owned Jacksonville in the HFL? Clearly you were doing something "not so bad" this past season as you were ranked 13th in fewest passing yards allowed, 18th in opponent passer rating and 19th in points allowed. In 1983 Jacksonville was even better. Viewed within the context of the league, JAX was doing something right, or at least not so bad.

One other question is, what is your hypothesis? I really want to help, but I'm not sure at this point where you are coming from. Do you believe that talent (red bars) doesn't matter and gameplan doesn't matter, it's all luck? Or that some people have it figured out and some don't? Or that the team with the best offense is the team that will win? Or is there some other paradigm through which you're looking at FOF defense?



Cheers,
-Bear

[Higgs44]

No offense taken.

But view the statistics within the context of the league you're playing in - and only within that context.

For example, how long have you owned Jacksonville in the HFL? Clearly you were doing something "not so bad" this past season as you were ranked 13th in fewest passing yards allowed, 18th in opponent passer rating and 19th in points allowed. In 1983 Jacksonville was even better. Viewed within the context of the league, JAX was doing something right, or at least not so bad.

One other question is, what is your hypothesis? I really want to help, but I'm not sure at this point where you are coming from. Do you believe that talent (red bars) doesn't matter and gameplan doesn't matter, it's all luck? Or that some people have it figured out and some don't? Or that the team with the best offense is the team that will win? Or is there some other paradigm through which you're looking at FOF defense?



Cheers,
-Bear

I honestly dont know Bear. I do things that work in some leagues and dont work in others, and i understand thats the way it goes. I dont understand why, if im looking for pass in a passing situation, why is a good defense not that good. Even a bad defensive player, if he "knows" whats coming can play adequate defense. Not so in FOF, at least it doesnt seem like he can.

My team i listed above seems pretty good ratings wise and they got shredded this past season, and i just dont get it.

Everyone says get better players, how good do they have to be??? Do they all have to be 80 rated players to have any success? It just seems like you can get by with mediocre offensive players, but a defensive mediocre player gets abused at will.

[beargrowlz]

I honestly dont know Bear.

Fair enough.

I do things that work in some leagues and dont work in others, and i understand thats the way it goes.

Right, and that's true for any number of reasons. Most notably I'd suggest the talent level of your teams differ, some leagues have deeper competition - read more owners better at offensive gameplanning - and the quality of defensive players vs. offensive players leans in different directions to differing extents in each league (for example, a CB who is rated 60 in all coverages is a better defensive player in a league with fewer high rated QB's and receivers than he would be in a league with lots of high rated QB's and receivers - in other words his "talent" must be viewed relative to the talent of the offensive players. Some leagues have more highly rated offensive players than other leagues.).

I'm sure there are others, but those three come to mind off the top of my head.

I dont understand why, if im looking for pass in a passing situation, why is a good defense not that good. Even a bad defensive player, if he "knows" whats coming can play adequate defense. Not so in FOF, at least it doesnt seem like he can.

Is this really true? Can't NFL defenses - which prepare with voluminous film study of the tendencies of other teams - pretty much guess what the other team is going to do 75% of the time if not more?

And what's "adequate defense"? Defending a pass? Giving up a completion for less than a first down? I think what we've got is a system where if you call pass your defense has a better chance of stopping the pass than if you call run, but I can't quantify how much more of a chance. I think the chance of defensive success also increases the greater the down and distance, but again I can't quanify how much so.


My team i listed above seems pretty good ratings wise and they got shredded this past season, and i just dont get it.

There might be more "better" offensive gameplanners in that league than in another league, there might be a disproportionate number of highly skilled offensive players in that league, your gameplan might be poor - those are just the first thoughts that come to mind. If it's any help you could send me your gameplan and I'll look at it and see what I think - but there are probably some here who would be of more help in that regard, but I'm happy to look at it.

Everyone says get better players, how good do they have to be??? Do they all have to be 80 rated players to have any success? It just seems like you can get by with mediocre offensive players, but a defensive mediocre player gets abused at will.

Well, first, that's the easiest thing to do, get better players. Second, it's easier and more intuitive to gameplan offensively for "mediocre" players than it is to do so defensively. Defensive gameplanning doesn't seem to be as intuitive as offensive gameplanning is and more people tend to have more problems with it.

I also think there are three other factors that probably should be noted. I think in FOF terms, there's not a lot you can do to stop an offense with a great quarterback and two great wide receivers, so if you're facing lots of offenses like that you're pretty much just trying to tread water. I also think that big red bars on offense beat big red bars on defense most of the time. Finally, don't discount the opposing team owner. Does your pass defense routinely get thrashed by the same team owners? Do you routinely have success against other team owners? Remember, there's a real person gameplanning against you, so if they understand the game better than you they're going to have some advantage.

I think that what I think is that talent (red bars) sets the upper and lower limits of the things you can do defensively but that you - the human owner - can make a difference in a good way or a bad way as to how your defense performs by your gameplanning. I think however, it's far more complex than just doing one or two or three things off a list. You have to build a system, where one thing - like a player's coverage ability - builds off another - like the coverages you play in what situations - to make your defense better than it would be otherwise.

That's probably not much help, and I can't prove it except to say that when I do certain things with my defense it plays better and when I do others it plays worse. So I do the things that seem to work more and the things that don't work less.



Cheers,
-Bear

[Hammer]

So far as I have been able to figure out, no. The WLB will not rush the passer in a 3-4 dime unless you set the SLB to blitz in the dime - I know that looks weird, but that appears to be the case from my observations.

I move my WLB to DE in the dime unless I have two better pass rushing DE's.



Cheers,
-Bear


Thats what I thought. So your taking away from your pass rush by playing dime. You can't specifically ask your WLB to blitz in dime all of the time can you? If your saying don't blitz on 3rd down, instructing the SLB to blitz therefore won't come into effect will it?

In point 3 you say the best defense against the pass, is a good pass rush. I agree. Considering that, do you really want to play dime on 3rd down in a 3-4? Just food for thought. :popcorn:

Other than that I agree with the points you put forward here. I have never agreed with "collect big red bars" strategy. Its a cop out. Collect the big red bars where you need them, sure. Then go write a defensive gameplan that compliments the players you have. By saving on those all round defensive studs, you can invest that much more talent on offense.

[beargrowlz]

Thats what I thought. So your taking away from your pass rush by playing dime. You can't specifically ask your WLB to blitz in dime all of the time can you? If your saying don't blitz on 3rd down, instructing the SLB to blitz therefore won't come into effect will it?

In point 3 you say the best defense against the pass, is a good pass rush. I agree. Considering that, do you really want to play dime on 3rd down in a 3-4? Just food for thought. :popcorn:

Other than that I agree with the points you put forward here. I have never agreed with "collect big red bars" strategy. Its a cop out. Collect the big red bars where you need them, sure. Then go write a defensive gameplan that compliments the players you have. By saving on those all round defensive studs, you can invest that much more talent on offense.

You raise a fair point and my answer is admittedly anecdotal. My 3rd down aggressive pass defense seems to me to have more stops when I play dime and use m2m, 3 deep and 4 deep as opposed to nickel, m2m and 3 deep. I haven't used 4 deep with only 5 db's in the game in a 3-4 because that would - I presume - leave a LB covering one of the top two wide receivers.

If what I think I have observed is statistically true over a long period of time, then it's worth the loss in pass rush because the objective is to get them off the field any which way. If I'm not actually creating more stops with the extra defensive back, then you're correct and the loss of pass rush probably isn't worth it.



Cheers,
-Bear

[Sef0r]

If what I think I have observed is statistically true over a long period of time, then it's worth the loss in pass rush because the objective is to get them off the field any which way. If I'm not actually creating more stops with the extra defensive back, then you're correct and the loss of pass rush probably isn't worth it.


My 2c

You don't really loose your pass rush in Dime even when not blitzing.
4-3 Dime gives you 4 DL, 1 LB and 6 DBs.
3-4 Dime gives you 3 DL, 2 LB and 6 DBs

If you have great pass rushing DEs in the 4-3 or a great blitzing WLB in the 3-4, you are going up against the Oline only and it will always be 4 DL/LB vs 5 OL. I've seen pressure from these situations so you don't loose your pass rush.

Lets say you set your gameplan to blitz LBs only 100% of 3rd down passing situation then you basically send the 1 LB left in the 4-3 and the 1 LB left in the 3-4 leaving you with only 6 DBs to cover 5 WRs. Now your trenches are evenly matched, 5 DL/LB vs 5 OL. I've seen pressure from these situations too.

My biggest problem is pass completion %. I don't mind giving up yards, it only takes a 80+ yard TD catch to put that QB on 300+ for a game. I just hate it when, regardless of what I've tried so far I get a lot of 20/23 300+ yards or 14/15 260 yards, 33/36 400 yards. That is what happens when you face a good QB with 2 very good WRs. If they have 3 very good WRs, no chance in hell.

[Julio Riddols]

If I knew the exact reason my defense is working as well as it is now, I would outline it here - But I can say for sure that creating long 3rd down situations when possible really helps my pass defense. I have put a premium on stopping the run to the point where we are sometimes too aggressive and get burned, but you'd be surprised how much better the pass defense gets when you only allow 3 yards a carry.

My basic theory is to be extremely aggressive in my expectations for specific downs and distances, then to try to keep short passes short and limit YAC. Blitzing is touchy for my particular defense, though we do our fair share.

If you could look at my Saints team in the eNFL this season, you'll see that its possible to have a good defense with sub par bars. I'll post the stats and ratings when I get home from work.

[Higgs44]

Is this really true? Can't NFL defenses - which prepare with voluminous film study of the tendencies of other teams - pretty much guess what the other team is going to do 75% of the time if not more?

And what's "adequate defense"? Defending a pass? Giving up a completion for less than a first down? I think what we've got is a system where if you call pass your defense has a better chance of stopping the pass than if you call run, but I can't quantify how much more of a chance. I think the chance of defensive success also increases the greater the down and distance, but again I can't quanify how much so.

IMO, the good defenses of the NFL get stops on a rather routine basis, or at the very least when they need em. This was more frequently when the NFL didnt have a salary cap and good teams with money could stockpile players. Now I know we have a salary cap, but for most of the leagues, its a joke, not many teams are ever close to going over the cap, so it doesnt really apply.

The disturbing part of all this is giving up the long 3rd down pass, when your aggressively expecting it. Now im not saying the pass needs to be defended all the time, or intercepted, but, at least stop a 1st down.

There might be more "better" offensive gameplanners in that league than in another league, there might be a disproportionate number of highly skilled offensive players in that league, your gameplan might be poor - those are just the first thoughts that come to mind. If it's any help you could send me your gameplan and I'll look at it and see what I think - but there are probably some here who would be of more help in that regard, but I'm happy to look at it.

I agree with this.


I also think there are three other factors that probably should be noted. I think in FOF terms, there's not a lot you can do to stop an offense with a great quarterback and two great wide receivers, so if you're facing lots of offenses like that you're pretty much just trying to tread water. I also think that big red bars on offense beat big red bars on defense most of the time. Finally, don't discount the opposing team owner. Does your pass defense routinely get thrashed by the same team owners? Do you routinely have success against other team owners? Remember, there's a real person gameplanning against you, so if they understand the game better than you they're going to have some advantage.

That definitely seems to be the case, and its not right imo. This is my reason for saying, why bother drafting defensive players, at least in the 1st round. If that Defensive guy cant cover the offensive counterpoint, why take him?

I think that what I think is that talent (red bars) sets the upper and lower limits of the things you can do defensively but that you - the human owner - can make a difference in a good way or a bad way as to how your defense performs by your gameplanning. I think however, it's far more complex than just doing one or two or three things off a list. You have to build a system, where one thing - like a player's coverage ability - builds off another - like the coverages you play in what situations - to make your defense better than it would be otherwise.

Ive tried this, my team had some pretty good pass coverage bars, especially BNR. So I tried GPing my defense accordingly. Of course it didnt work. I read the help file on exactly what each "coverage" was made to do. I then tried GPing according to what I wanted to happen and against what my opponent tends to do... didnt work. I then switched to a 3-4 D and re tried everything.. still no success.

That's probably not much help, and I can't prove it except to say that when I do certain things with my defense it plays better and when I do others it plays worse. So I do the things that seem to work more and the things that don't work less.

Cheers,
-Bear

Its all helpful, I just wanna come to grips as to why the system is flawed.

[Subby]

If you want I can post the defensive gameplan I used the season we went undefeated in FOFL. It is pretty similar to a lot of what Ben and others are advocating (great offense, good secondary, not extreme in expectations.)

[Higgs44]

If you want I can post the defensive gameplan I used the season we went undefeated in FOFL. It is pretty similar to a lot of what Ben and others are advocating (great offense, good secondary, not extreme in expectations.)

I dont really want someones GP... I just want to understand. If by posting the GP is the only way, then by all means.

[Subby]

Ok, well it has already been explained ad nauseum.

[RedKingGold]

I believe that a stellar middle linebacker is the key to defense success in FOF.

I would trade three first round picks in any of my FOF MP leagues to take one first overall.

[Hammer]

I believe that a stellar middle linebacker is the key to defense success in FOF.

I would trade three first round picks in any of my FOF MP leagues to take one first overall.


Wind up surely?

[Hammer]

I dont really want someones GP... I just want to understand. If by posting the GP is the only way, then by all means.

I'd suggest you post your defensive plan. Then perhaps we can see what the issues are. If your not stopping teams more often than not on 3rd and long, there really is something wrong.

[Subby]

nothing to see here...

[Higgs44]

Its funny... Ive run some sample size sims using only the run and pass defense, with no aggressive play calling, like the one by Subby, but using different numbers in situations. I kept my old Personnel screen in tact, as well as the Pass coverages....and its unbelievable.

Its like the whole problem is aggressively guessing, even correctly when a team is gonna run or pass.

[Yoda]

The players guide calls agressive defense as if your LB's/S's move up (run) or drop (pass).

I rarely use it.

Here's something I just posted over in the PFL. Just my basics on defense.
<a href="http://primetime-football-league.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=6296">Defense 101</a>

[Hammer]

You went with these settings in every game Subby?

What was your thinking in only going 2/2 for DC in non passing situations? I understand the AI will designate DC anyway, but I can't resist making the decision in every situation myself.

[Yoda]

I do the same thing, when you DC someone, you are pulling the player (safety usually) out of position. I'd rather have them in their normal position.

[Higgs44]

The players guide calls agressive defense as if your LB's/S's move up (run) or drop (pass).

I rarely use it.

Here's something I just posted over in the PFL. Just my basics on defense.
Defense 101 (http://primetime-football-league.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=6296)


I understood that, but when its 3rd and long, Im figuring aggressively guessing a pass would help, and it just doesnt. It seems very flawed imo.

[Yoda]

I understood that, but when its 3rd and long, Im figuring aggressively guessing a pass would help, and it just doesnt. It seems very flawed imo.

Look at it this way... If your LB's and S's are dropping back, and it's say, 3rd and 8....the 'underneath' is going to be open.

EDIT: for the record, I agree with you.

[Higgs44]

Look at it this way... If your LB's and S's are dropping back, and it's say, 3rd and 8....the 'underneath' is going to be open.

EDIT: for the record, I agree with you.

True... but its a lot easier for a player to come up than to drop back and stop a play. At least in theory it is.

[Yoda]

Well, in testing, YAC is ALOT lower when you run a pass agressive defense.

[Hammer]

Well, in testing, YAC is ALOT lower when you run a pass agressive defense.


Worth using aggressive pass defense in more than just 3rd and long against the top passing teams then. Especially the WCO types, if they are heavily tilted towards the pass.

I tend to often use it on 2nd and 8+, and 3rd 3+ fairly often. Against the real pass heavy teams I use it accross all situations, but thats fairly rare. Often a 0 40 0 60 set up on first and ten. That keeps me in 2 deep in my system.

Hardly ever use dime with the 3-4 for the pass rushing reasons discussed earlier. Whether the reasons are valid or not, I'm not sure. Never had a problem defending 3rd and 8+ using the Nickel though.

While there are a number of ways to improve your defense, getting a lead (read great offense) is king in my opinion.

[Julio Riddols]

Heres the defense and the stats we have through 8 games in the eNFL -

LDE (out of position LDT) - Troy Farmer 49/49
NT - Kamron Quinn 61/73 (but really doesnt do squat in this defense: 5.6tk%)
RDE - Burt Bish 49/49
SOLB - Norbert Peterson 48/48
SILB - Kris Shepard 47/47
WILB - Butch Andersen 56/56
WOLB - Gus Batson 47/47
LCB - Brett Battistone 29/33
RCB - Chandler Dent 49/49
SS - AJ McKenzie 70/70
FS - Rex Humphries 55/55

Pretty good defense, but not great by any means - yet we currently allow 3.69 ypc on the ground, good for 2nd in the league, 6.39 ypa through the air (11th) to the tune of 299.4 yards per game (6th). We give up only 33% 3rd down conversions (2nd). We allow 16.4 points per game despite only being plus-1 in turnover ratio. (our offense has turned it over 14 times in 8 games).

Our pass rush percentage is only 23rd, though we have forced 15 turnovers in 8 games.

Our offense is ranked in the middle at 16th in the league and they average 330 yards a game while the defense gives up only 299.4, to give perspective of the kind of numbers an average team has in this particular league.

[merry]

Hi,
I am very new to FOF so please take these thoughts with a pile of salt. In fact what I would really like is for people that know stuff to comment on these ideas These are all ideas from solo play with a pretty good offence.
(1) I went through 8 different leagues season defensive pass ratings because I think it may be the best single measure of pass defence. The median was 85. This is quite high by usual NFL standards. So it's hard to have a "good" pass defence.
(2) If I load my team toward pass defence and my team gets a lead my defence usually does well. The AI passes a lot to catch up. Ther QB rating falls. Their yds/rush is high but does not matter.
(3) My pass defence is almost 0 aggressive run and almost 0 run on 3rd and long.
(4) I keep the defensive play adjustments unchanged.
(5) I change the offensive play adjustments dramatically toward "same". ( I don't know why this matters but I think it does.) :confused:
(6) My defensive cap money goes firstly toward 3CB 2DE 2S .
(7) Although I may give up a lot of passing yards at times my defensive QB rating is usually under 70 and points allowed/game are quiite low.
Thanks,
Merry