NFL Week 8 Discussion Thread: Randy Moss Claimed on Waivers by the Titans

[jeff061]

Hard to believe the Pats are all alone with the best record in the NFL. That haven't really played like it, and they're definitely not the best team. But that's a nice cushion for an AFC playoff spot if nothing else.

Word for word what the average perception of them during their first 2 bowl runs was. It really is like a flashback. Defense doesn't look good at all. But somehow keeps them out of the end zone(after they drive inside the 10), occasional turnover and real good at stuffing the 3rd/4th and shorts. Generally all of those happen after the other team drove the length of the field. Deja vu. McCourty is even beginning to look like a smaller Law.

Need more consistency out of offense though.

[molson]

LOL, full Moss transcript. Verbatim: Randy Moss - NFC North Blog - ESPN (http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcnorth/post/_/id/18804/verbatim-randy-moss)

I think this outpaces the post-Cincy lunacy.

Too bad the trade deadline has passed. I'd love to see a cancer let this get a shot a turning things around in a winning locker room like New England's.

[DaddyTorgo]

Too bad the trade deadline has passed. I'd love to see a cancer let this get a shot a turning things around in a winning locker room like New England's.

i get that you're trying to be ironic, but he obviously did at least a couple things to force his way out of town

[stevew]

McFadden with a sick sack of Brees.

[molson]

i get that you're trying to be ironic, but he obviously did at least a couple things to force his way out of town

Absolutely. But I'd take him back and expect him be productive, if that was possible. I think without the Pats he does risk falling into irrelevance again. Is there a big money deal for him this off-season? If not, it sure sounds like he'd be happy to come back. Or maybe he's just realizing how much money he potentially lost by demanding a trade (and not getting an extension anywhere).

[DaddyTorgo]

Absolutely. But I'd take him back and expect him be productive, if that was possible. I think without the Pats he does risk falling into irrelevancy again. Is there a big money deal for him this off-season? If not, it sure sounds like he'd be happy to come back.

I agree.

[Swaggs]

The Saints defense came to play. Ben looks like a rookie tonight.

[stevew]

Unbelievably pisspoor play calling tonight. Arians is a fucking moron.

[stevew]

The Saints defense came to play. Ben looks like a rookie tonight.

yeah, he looks like Favre out there.

[Dutch]

Holy shit, what an amazing play by Blount!

BREAK UP THE BUCS!!!!! 5-2!

http://thebiglead.fantasysportsven.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/5f.gif

[EagleFan]

Ouch!

What does that say when the coach says that he felt Rex Grossman gave his team the best chance to win at the end of the game.

Drama in DC?

[cuervo72]

Ouch!

What does that say when the coach says that he felt Rex Grossman gave his team the best chance to win at the end of the game.

Drama in DC?

Yeah, I'm bummed that I'm going to miss the Monday Morning QB show on the ride in tomorrow (taking the day off). Should be some good radio coming out of DC for the next couple weeks though.

[molson]

The NFC is ridiculous. I can totally see the Buccs, Seahawks or Rams getting to an NFC Championship game.

[jbergey22]

The NFC is ridiculous. I can totally see the Buccs, Seahawks or Rams getting to an NFC Championship game.

Perhaps but the NFC did beat two of the 3 best AFC teams today.

[Bigsmooth]

Unbelievably pisspoor play calling tonight. Arians is a fucking moron.

Yeah that was crazy. Maybe make an adjustment considering they were bringing the house every play? I couldn't believe they didn't have better hot reads.

[jbergey22]

The most surprising event of the day to me was the Jets getting shutout. The Packers just got done playing Monday night and that defense looked exhausted at one point in the fourth quarter on Monday night. Now less than 6 days later they handle one of the top 5 lines in the NFL.

At this point Id say would be my favs to get to the Super Bowl
NFC
1. New York Giants
2. Green Bay Packers
3. New Orleans Saints
4. Atlanta Falcons
5. Philadelphia Eagles

AFC
1. Pittsburgh Steelers
2. New England Patriots
3. Indianapolis Colts
4. New York Jets
5. Baltimore Ravens

[Danny]

The RAIDUHHS

[Groundhog]

The Raiders are averaging a scoreline of 46-8.5 over the past 2 games. There is no way in hell they aren't going undefeated for the rest of the season and winning the Super Bowl by at least 8 touchdowns.

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

http://s3.amazonaws.com/twitpic/photos/full/186030310.jpg?AWSAccessKeyId=0ZRYP5X5F6FSMBCCSE82&Expires=1288612179&Signature=byw0vJYLFG3TyJsvK8TvwJHpMy0%3D

[Jughead Spock]

BREAK UP THE BUCS!!!!! 5-2!

http://thebiglead.fantasysportsven.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/5f.gif


Best thing about this play... dude put his head down and wasn't seeing what he was hitting. Dumbass. Hope this is one of the clips shown to the next generation of players.

[Passacaglia]

ooh those black jerseys are fly though

[Lathum]

The most surprising event of the day to me was the Jets getting shutout. The Packers just got done playing Monday night and that defense looked exhausted at one point in the fourth quarter on Monday night. Now less than 6 days later they handle one of the top 5 lines in the NFL.

At this point Id say would be my favs to get to the Super Bowl
NFC
1. New York Giants
2. Green Bay Packers
3. New Orleans Saints
4. Atlanta Falcons
5. Philadelphia Eagles

AFC
1. Pittsburgh Steelers
2. New England Patriots
3. Indianapolis Colts
4. New York Jets
5. Baltimore Ravens

Thanks for the JBergey kiss of death asshole. :p

[spleen1015]

So....

Somehow, Jim Zorn is back as Redskins coach.

[Thomkal]

BREAK UP THE BUCS!!!!! 5-2!

http://thebiglead.fantasysportsven.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/5f.gif

Sure, sure rub it in (okay it was a great run)

[Mustang]

So....

Somehow, Jim Zorn is back as Redskins coach.



Zornihan



http://img60.exs.cx/img60/569/dudemeet020nc.jpg

[bhlloy]

I tuned into Sportscenter last night expecting to see McNabb with another 3 INT, 40% completion game. Instead his stats were pretty OK and if I'm correct, he moved the ball downfield pretty well on their last drive?

What the hell was Shanahan thinking... not just benching McNabb but putting the guy with possibly the worst decision making in the entire league in with the game on the line? What am I missing here?

Sending a message? If so that's a hell of a message to send. Apparently the message is "I'm crazy/stubborn enough to lose a game to the Lions if you guys don't do what I want". If this was one of the younger coaches in the league he might be out of a job in the morning.

[DeToxRox]

I tuned into Sportscenter last night expecting to see McNabb with another 3 INT, 40% completion game. Instead his stats were pretty OK and if I'm correct, he moved the ball downfield pretty well on their last drive?

What the hell was Shanahan thinking... not just benching McNabb but putting the guy with possibly the worst decision making in the entire league in with the game on the line? What am I missing here?

Sending a message? If so that's a hell of a message to send. Apparently the message is "I'm crazy/stubborn enough to lose a game to the Lions if you guys don't do what I want". If this was one of the younger coaches in the league he might be out of a job in the morning.

Didn't matter who was in, the Lions DL just destroyed the Skins OL. Skins couldn't move the ball, but McNabb did throw a terrible INT when they were up by 5 with 4:45 left which lead to the game winning score.

That said, Kyle Shanahan called an awful game.

[molson]

I would say that maybe he thought Grossman would be better at avoiding sacks. But looking at the numbers, there's no reason to think that would be true.

He was probably just irrationally pissed at the prior INT. Coaching like a crazy fan there, "Get him out of there I don't care who's on the bench!!"

[miami_fan]

Shanahan seems to be all about sending messages this year.

[albionmoonlight]

Anyone who watched the SF game, how did Troy Smith look? When he came out of college, I was hoping that the Saints would draft him to back up Brees. He reminded me of Brees: "too short" to play QB, but did nothing but win despite that.

[Sun Tzu]

Shanahan seems to be all about sending messages this year.

As does Brett Favre (albeit a much different kind of message).

[Sun Tzu]

Anyone who watched the SF game, how did Troy Smith look? When he came out of college, I was hoping that the Saints would draft him to back up Brees. He reminded me of Brees: "too short" to play QB, but did nothing but win despite that.

He didn't look good, he didn't look bad. He definitely wasn't any better than Alex. There was one specific play where he rolled out to his right, and half dove/lofted a prayer into double coverage 35 yards downfield to Delanie Walker. The pass was under-thrown by about 10 yards, but the DB's all made terrible plays on the ball, and Walker somehow came down with it. If that pass had been intercepted (which by all rights it should have been) then you'd probably be reading much, much worse reviews of his performance.

[Pumpy Tudors]

I work in a building with 700 employees and at least a couple hundred college students who come through to take classes. Every day, I see people wearing Steelers gear, regardless of the time of year. That's cool. I've got no problem with people supporting their team.

Today, however, I've been at work for nearly 4 hours and I haven't seen a single sign of the Steelers. Funny, when the Steelers played Baltimore to the wire and lost, the Steelers fans around here were still proud. They weren't happy, but they were proud. The team missed the playoffs last year, but nobody put their Steelers clothes away during the postseason. They were still proud and they got over it. Somehow, today, the pride seems to have vanished just because they got straight beaten last night. Why is there suddenly shame in losing on the road to the defending Super Bowl champions? I asked somebody around here and got bitched at ("Why do you have to rub it in???") Rub what in? My team gave up 59 points to the Raiders a week ago. I don't have room to rub anything in. I'm just asking.

I can't claim to speak for all Steelers fans, but the sense of entitlement amongst them is amusing. Nobody's above getting beaten. Yes, they should want a better performance out of their team, and they should expect a better performance out of their team, but deal with it. It's like the game suddenly becomes a forbidden topic as soon as the opponent goes into victory formation.

Maybe fans in other cities are like this, but I've never lived there to see it. At least the people I've encountered here seem to think that it's embarrassing to lose by 10 points. If losing by 10 in the Superdome in an embarrassment, I should just burn my Broncos stuff because almost everything they've done this year has been about a thousand times worse than that.

Boo hoo hoo.

OK, I'm done here. Time to figure out who dug up the corpse of Troy Smith and taught him how to play football again.

[Mustang]

It's like the game suddenly becomes a forbidden topic as soon as the opponent goes into victory formation.


The first rule of Steeler's Fan Club is you don't talk about losing games.

The second rule of Steeler's Fan Clue is you don't.talk.about.losing.games.

[Pumpy Tudors]

I think Steelers fans begrudingly acknowledge divisional losses, as it's fairly hard to sweep them under the rug when the other team's fans provide constant reminders. The out-of-division losses are a different story, though.

Given that the Steelers officially finished 9-7 last year, but they lost outside the division to Chicago, Kansas City, and Oakland, I think Steelers fans really think their team finished 9-4 last year, and they only missed the playoffs because the NFL is afraid of Ray Lewis so Baltimore got in instead.

Yes, I will continue to make fun of Steelers fans as long as I live here. They make it too easy. I don't do this to Penguins fans even though I'm a fan of one of their divisional rivals. I don't do this to Pirates fans because I am a Pirates fan. For a Broncos fan from New Orleans to make fun of Steelers fans, though, it's clearly just shooting fish in a barrel.

[Suburban Rhythm]

I work in a building with 700 employees and at least a couple hundred college students who come through to take classes. Every day, I see people wearing Steelers gear, regardless of the time of year. That's cool. I've got no problem with people supporting their team.

Today, however, I've been at work for nearly 4 hours and I haven't seen a single sign of the Steelers. Funny, when the Steelers played Baltimore to the wire and lost, the Steelers fans around here were still proud. They weren't happy, but they were proud. The team missed the playoffs last year, but nobody put their Steelers clothes away during the postseason. They were still proud and they got over it. Somehow, today, the pride seems to have vanished just because they got straight beaten last night. Why is there suddenly shame in losing on the road to the defending Super Bowl champions? I asked somebody around here and got bitched at ("Why do you have to rub it in???") Rub what in? My team gave up 59 points to the Raiders a week ago. I don't have room to rub anything in. I'm just asking.

I can't claim to speak for all Steelers fans, but the sense of entitlement amongst them is amusing. Nobody's above getting beaten. Yes, they should want a better performance out of their team, and they should expect a better performance out of their team, but deal with it. It's like the game suddenly becomes a forbidden topic as soon as the opponent goes into victory formation.

Maybe fans in other cities are like this, but I've never lived there to see it. At least the people I've encountered here seem to think that it's embarrassing to lose by 10 points. If losing by 10 in the Superdome in an embarrassment, I should just burn my Broncos stuff because almost everything they've done this year has been about a thousand times worse than that.

Boo hoo hoo.

OK, I'm done here. Time to figure out who dug up the corpse of Troy Smith and taught him how to play football again.

I am in agreement with you...losing to the Saints by 10 in NO should be more palatable than blowing a lead to Baltimore in the final minute.

You could have the opposite. Typically you'll get the experts who will tell you everything they would have done differently, how bad the playcalling is, who should be starting/sitting, etc. You should be happy that you are getting silence!

As far as the anger...remember how you feel when you see Colin White. Some things just have no explanation.

[Suburban Rhythm]

I think Steelers fans begrudingly acknowledge divisional losses, as it's fairly hard to sweep them under the rug when the other team's fans provide constant reminders. The out-of-division losses are a different story, though.

Given that the Steelers officially finished 9-7 last year, but they lost outside the division to Chicago, Kansas City, and Oakland, I think Steelers fans really think their team finished 9-4 last year, and they only missed the playoffs because the NFL is afraid of Ray Lewis so Baltimore got in instead.

Yes, I will continue to make fun of Steelers fans as long as I live here. They make it too easy. I don't do this to Penguins fans even though I'm a fan of one of their divisional rivals. I don't do this to Pirates fans because I am a Pirates fan. For a Broncos fan from New Orleans to make fun of Steelers fans, though, it's clearly just shooting fish in a barrel.

Are there Pirates fans??

And in either case, "Pirates fans" are just people wasting time until training camp starts. And about 70% of Penguin fans are people who like to cheer for anything winning during the week, just waiting to get to Sunday again.

[spleen1015]

Yeah, you would think Tomlin took out the franchise QB they traded for in the off season and put in Rex Grossman for the game winning drive.

Rex fucking Grossman.

[Pumpy Tudors]

I am in agreement with you...losing to the Saints by 10 in NO should be more palatable than blowing a lead to Baltimore in the final minute.

You could have the opposite. Typically you'll get the experts who will tell you everything they would have done differently, how bad the playcalling is, who should be starting/sitting, etc. You should be happy that you are getting silence!

As far as the anger...remember how you feel when you see Colin White. Some things just have no explanation.
Are there Pirates fans??

And in either case, "Pirates fans" are just people wasting time until training camp starts. And about 70% of Penguin fans are people who like to cheer for anything winning during the week, just waiting to get to Sunday again.
Good points on both. I will accept the silence this time, and I do wish there were more Pirates fans. I actually know of one other besides myself. He's also a Steelers fan, but I really think the Pirates are his favorite sports team overall. Of course, he's old enough to remember where he was when Mazeroski hit his home run.

[Swaggs]

Are there Pirates fans??

:(

[MikeVic]

Hey Pumpy, I was playing NBA2k11 and I swear for one of the guys on a team I was using (Russell Westbrook maybe), the commentators launched into a bowling discussion. Apparently the player bowls regularly to strengthen his arms or something.

Also, wasn't former Steeler Jerome Bettis big into bowling?

Also, please leave the Steelers alone. :rant:

[Suburban Rhythm]

Good points on both. I will accept the silence this time, and I do wish there were more Pirates fans. I actually know of one other besides myself. He's also a Steelers fan, but I really think the Pirates are his favorite sports team overall. Of course, he's old enough to remember where he was when Mazeroski hit his home run.

:(

I went to 2 games last year.

2nd was the Sunday of Labor Day weekend, because my kids really wanted to run the bases after the game. We were in our seats for exactly 1 inning. The rest of the time we wandered around the park, then lined up to run the bases. Pregame was the unveiling of the Maz statue, my son asked "who was the pappy driving around in that car?" They lost to the Nationals, I believe the final was 9-1.


The 1st game was mid May, my brother in law and were working in the same building, so took a 1/2 day, went to a 12:35 start. Turned out to be the Brewers 20-0 game. We left top of the 8th when it was 17-0.

I was never a huge baseball fan growing up, but now I can hardly care at all. Summer night, nothing on TV and just chilling out, I'll put the game on for a few innings just to pass time, but I am not truly interested.

[stevew]

Sunday afternoon Pirates Giant Eagle Advantage games are so worth it. I was like 25 rows from the field for 14 bucks.

[Suburban Rhythm]

Sunday afternoon Pirates Giant Eagle Advantage games are so worth it. I was like 25 rows from the field for 14 bucks.

Above mentioned bro-in-law, although originally from NY and a Mets fan, gets some seasons plan, something like 10 or 12 games. We used those for the Brewers game in May, and sat about 15 rows back, behind home plate, for something like $20.

Related to the thread (and Pumpys topic), I've had 3 people today tell me how bad Ike is getting beat on that deep ball. Except for the fact that it wasn't his responsibility, they are absolutely right!! :banghead:

Enjoy the silence Pumpy, it could be worse.

[Pumpy Tudors]

Hey Pumpy, I was playing NBA2k11 and I swear for one of the guys on a team I was using (Russell Westbrook maybe), the commentators launched into a bowling discussion. Apparently the player bowls regularly to strengthen his arms or something.

Also, wasn't former Steeler Jerome Bettis big into bowling?

Also, please leave the Steelers alone. :rant:
I know Chris Paul is well-known around the NBA for his bowling skills. Not sure about any other basketball players, although LeBron James has bowling lanes in his house. I've seen LeBron bowl on TV, though, and he's not very good. Here's hoping that the whole basketball thing works out for the kid.

Yes, I believe I heard that Jerome Bettis is an avid bowler. He seems like a nice guy. It would be great if I could bowl with him. He was one of the greatest backs to ever wear a Rams uniform.

Who are the Steelers? Funny, I haven't heard of them today.

[Pumpy Tudors]

Related to the thread (and Pumpys topic), I've had 3 people today tell me how bad Ike is getting beat on that deep ball. Except for the fact that it wasn't his responsibility, they are absolutely right!! :banghead:

Enjoy the silence Pumpy, it could be worse.
WHAT DO YOU MEAN, IT WASN'T HIS RESPONSIBILITY? HE'S WEARING "BLACK AND GOLD", SO HE SHOULD BE ABLE TO STOP ANY DEEP BALL BY HOLDING UP THE SHEER HONOR OF PLAYING FOR PITTSBURGH! HONOR STOPS THE DEEP BALL! PRIDE STOPS THE DEEP BALL! SWAGGIN' DOES NOT! GET RID OF IKE!!!!!

[spleen1015]

Jermaine O'neal and Jeff Foster are both decent bowlers. I worked at a bowling center that they used to come to about 4 years ago.

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

Moss waived. Wow.

[molson]

Moss waived. Wow.

Really? Haven't seen that anywhere.

Back to the Pats? For less money? That would be awesome.

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

Eh he's waived so the Pats would have to get in line.

edit: It's just twitter for now but legit sources (Lombardi). Apparently Moss didn't want to go back to MIN on the flight, and was waived.

[DaddyTorgo]

Haha. That's awesome.

[MikeVic]

Haha, what the hell.

[RainMaker]

Am I the only one who thought he had a legit chance at catching that pass yesterday on the pass interference and he just decided not to bother going for it?

[molson]

I assume NFL does waivers in order of reverse W/L record?

The Jets will take him if nobody else does. Even if just to stash him on the inactive list away from New England.

[MikeVic]

Am I the only one who thought he had a legit chance at catching that pass yesterday on the pass interference and he just decided not to bother going for it?

No!! I was thinking the same thing. He just let up, meant to post it here but forgot about it.

[DaddyTorgo]

Wowsers. So how does the waiver process work in the NFL anyways? Worst team gets first dibs and all?

Basically no chance he gets to come back to NE I suppose?

[DaddyTorgo]

I assume NFL does waivers in order of reverse W/L record?

The Jets will take him if nobody else does.

They'd hafta have room for his contract though right?

[molson]

They'd hafta have room for his contract though right?

True, but with non-guaranteed NFL contracts....

I actually have zero idea what will happen. Can't wait to find out though.

[tripps04]

worst record first, plus Minnesota pays his salary. Plus Moss, will get a salary from his new team. WOW

[MikeVic]

Would the Pats want him back?

[Alan T]

Buffalo should totally pick up Moss to screw with everyone.

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

Worst team yes, but apparently based on last season's records.

Even with this wtf moment, I can't see a number of teams (Rams would be first, and could even make sense) passing on him.

[DeToxRox]

St. Louis would be dumb not to pick him up if they can.

[Ksyrup]

I can't wait for his exclusive interview with himself to get all the details.

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

And obligatory jesus christ the Vikings are a fucked up franchise post.

[DaddyTorgo]

Does he have to agree to play for the new team though? Or is he basically just assigned there and has no say?

Because that would be a huge wrinkle...

[albionmoonlight]

St. Louis would be dumb not to pick him up if they can.

St. Louis has a good thing going right now. Don't know if they would want Moss to mess with that chemistry.

[bronconick]

I don't know who'd take him right now. After the last month, "locker room cancer" wouldn't even describe it, would it?

"Locker room Chernobyl"?

[DaddyTorgo]

So the Vikings traded a 3rd round pick for a couple weeks of Randy Moss (what were his total stats there this year?). LMAO.

[molson]

What a fruit loop.

Ya, it's hard to imagine him just showing up wherever he's "claimed". Where is he possibly going to be less insane than Minnesota?

And the more I think about it, the more I think the Pats are just done with him. They didn't want anything to do with him 3 weeks ago. And the conspiracy theories would be out of control if they did get him back so quickly after getting a draft pick for him.

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

Teams that make sense to me: Rams, Redskins, Chargers (potentially, depends on their thoughts on VJ), Chiefs, Bears... sure there are even more.

[Ksyrup]

Bearrs should pick him up and dress him in DeAngelo Hall's uni.

[jbergey22]

Childress is a fucking loser. Get the fuck out of Minnesota you asshole.

[Lathum]

I wouldn't want that guy anywhere near my team.

[Gary Gorski]

The Lions are always looking for a WR

[DaddyTorgo]

The Lions are always looking for a WR

Or the Cowboys.

I mean if they weren't already out of it. Jerry Jones is crazy enough, but I don't think he'd throw the money away seeing as how their season is done.

[DaddyTorgo]

I wouldn't want that guy anywhere near my team.

Eli-to-Moss? No??

C'mon Lathum :D

[wade moore]

Sorry.. I know there's much Moss haterade...

But I hope Danny-Boy Snyder opens up his wallet.

[wade moore]

And if it's based on last-years record, Skins would be high on the list.

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

Randy Moss is currently outside Belichick's house holding a boom box with Peter Gabriel playing on it.

[molson]

And it's a contract year for Moss. He's completely lost it. He's cost himself a ridiculous amount of money.

Edit: It is possible though, that he's surprised that the Vikings released him (he's used to getting away with shit), and now he knows he's screwed. Somebody might be able to luck into a motivated Moss. I wouldn't hold my breath on that, but it won't cost much to take the chance.

[Lathum]

Randy Moss is currently outside Belichick's house holding a boom box with Peter Gabriel playing on it.

lol

[jbergey22]

This makes me ill. Childress is going to his ass rode right out of town soon. Minnesota has much more loyalty to Moss than they do this assbag so I dont think waiving the chosen one is going to go over well.

[Travis]

When does the waiver period end? There's no way the Colts or Texans could pick him up and activate him for tonight's game to give him a shot at playing an 18 game season right? :D

[MizzouRah]

St. Louis would be dumb not to pick him up if they can.

True.. we have no healthy receivers left.

[Sun Tzu]

It wouldn't be a Randy Moss dick sucking contest without jbergey22.

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

Apparently after Week 4 it becomes this year's Won/Loss records that determine waiver priority.

Sorry for misinformation above. Wonder how that would change things.

[jbergey22]

It wouldn't be a Randy Moss dick sucking contest without jbergey22.

Fail

[DaddyTorgo]

When does the waiver period end? There's no way the Colts or Texans could pick him up and activate him for tonight's game to give him a shot at playing an 18 game season right? :D

24hrs

What happens after that? He's a FA?

[jbergey22]

True.. we have no healthy receivers left.

Would a solid young team gamble on him though?

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

I really can't see him getting past Washington, so it's gotta be SF, SD, DEN or OAK (Ha!) that stops that.

[Jughead Spock]

Let's go, Al Davis. Perfect opportunity to fuck up that little bit of momentum. Quash it now.

[Rizon]

Wow, how bad do you have to be to be waived by the Vikings?!?!

Also, what about Moss back to the Faders??

[Rizon]

Fail

:lol: :popcorn:

[spleen1015]

The ESPN article says teams have 24 hours to claim him and if no ones does, he can go any where. So, yeah 24 hours then a FA.

[Rizon]

Also, what about Moss back to the Faders??

Damn, you guys are fast.

[Lathum]

worst record first, plus Minnesota pays his salary. Plus Moss, will get a salary from his new team. WOW

According to Mort this isn't true. If no one claims him the Vikings have to pay him, if a new team claims him they have to pay him.

[spleen1015]

If the Redskins sign up, I hope the give Rex fucking Grossman the starting job. They are perfect for each other.

[DaddyTorgo]

He wouldn't have to report to the claiming team I suppose though, so in reality he could essentially be a FA at this moment just by refusing to report to any team that he didn't want to go to.

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

He wouldn't have to report to the claiming team I suppose though, so in reality he could essentially be a FA at this moment just by refusing to report to any team that he didn't want to go to.

Well he wouldn't play the rest of the season were that the case, and would probably have some issues with the league. He would accrue enough time to be a FA next year, though, right?

[Lathum]

He wouldn't have to report to the claiming team I suppose though, so in reality he could essentially be a FA at this moment just by refusing to report to any team that he didn't want to go to.

How exactly does that make him a FA unless he just sits out this year?

[Ksyrup]

Or the Cowboys.

I mean if they weren't already out of it. Jerry Jones is crazy enough, but I don't think he'd throw the money away seeing as how their season is done.

Fire Phillips, install Moss as WR/coach.

OR

Bengals sign Moss and call HBO for in-season Hard Knocks featuring Dumb, Dumber, and Insanerer.

[MizzouRah]

Would a solid young team gamble on him though?

I don't want him.. but you never know what coach Spags was thinking when that came accross the wire today.

I highly doubt it, but I think we have a shot to win this division - would Moss help?

[Coffee Warlord]

C'mon down to Chicago Randy! I'm SURE you and Cutler will get along great.

[Lathum]

It will be interesting to see who claims him and who passed up on him.

[molson]

According to Mort this isn't true. If no one claims him the Vikings have to pay him, if a new team claims him they have to pay him.

That's a big difference. And a decent amount of cash for the recent of this season.

[Lathum]

This makes me ill. Childress is going to his ass rode right out of town soon. Minnesota has much more loyalty to Moss than they do this assbag so I dont think waiving the chosen one is going to go over well.

Any Minnesota fan who thinks this is a bad move is a fool. What exactly is the current incarnation of Moss bringing to the table?

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

$3.4m in an uncapped year, for a team that sees him as a cog to getting to the playoffs/winning in them? Not sure that's much of a deterrent.

[PackerFanatic]

According to Mort this isn't true. If no one claims him the Vikings have to pay him, if a new team claims him they have to pay him.

Schefter is saying this as well.

[Lathum]

That's a big difference. And a decent amount of cash for the recent of this season.

I don't get your comment. The OP claimed the Vikes have to pay Moss if he is claimed, plus the team that claims him has to pay him. I was just saying that isn't true. Either way Moss gets 3.4 mil from someone.

[Swaggs]

Gotta go to the Bengals with Ochochinco and T.O. :)

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

Really, I think it's still all about Moss getting PAID next year. Between Chilly, Gimp Favre and TJax I think he saw pretty quickly that wasn't going to be helped in Minny.

I dunno, I think he plays well for whoever gets him.

[Lathum]

$3.4m in an uncapped year, for a team that sees him as a cog to getting to the playoffs/winning in them? Not sure that's much of a deterrent.

I don't think the money has anything to do with it for most owners. I think the question is the risk worth the reward.

[Sun Tzu]

Did I misspell something?

I just don't understand why any team would want Moss...just in general. He's become a possession receiver, which doesn't work because he's afraid to get hit. He's terrible with the press, he's terrible (from what I hear) in the locker room and he's lost all perspective on what it's like to not have $80M in the bank. The guy is a walking, talking, breathing joke of a person.

[jbergey22]

Any Minnesota fan who thinks this is a bad move is a fool. What exactly is the current incarnation of Moss bringing to the table?

He opened up the offense for Harvin and AP. Harvin has been great since Moss got here. The game is much more than stats Lathum.

Moss hasnt done shit but just seeing all the different defenses the Pats threw at Moss yesterday shows how much respect he still gets.

Its not Moss's fault if that idiot Childress didnt know how to use him.

[wade moore]

The ESPN article says teams have 24 hours to claim him and if no ones does, he can go any where. So, yeah 24 hours then a FA.

But so..

If team 1 wants him, they get him? Or does he have to agree to it?

[M GO BLUE!!!]

I don't get this at all. They knew what they were getting when they traded for him. To just waive him now shows that they are even more clueless than anybody has given them credit for.

[jeff061]

Good stuff.

Clearly he just didn't want to play for the Vikes. When Moss mentally crosses that line, light goes off.

[spleen1015]

The sad thing in all of this?

No one will talk about what dumbass Shannahan did yesterday.

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

He's become a possession receiver

This is not in any way true.

[spleen1015]

But so..

If team 1 wants him, they get him? Or does he have to agree to it?

If he gets claimed, I think he has to go or he sits the rest of the year.

[tripps04]

Minnesota does not pay his salary if someone puts a claim. If no one does then Vikes pay him, he goes into free agency and gets paid again.... Buffalo Bills are now on the clock...

[jbergey22]

I don't get this at all. They knew what they were getting when they traded for him. To just waive him now shows that they are even more clueless than anybody has given them credit for.

Bingo!

[Travis]

I wonder if the timing of this is purely Moss or if there is some chance that Rice is getting close to a return (as he'd provide the deep threat to compliment Harvin/Peterson).

[jeff061]

I don't get this at all. They knew what they were getting when they traded for him. To just waive him now shows that they are even more clueless than anybody has given them credit for.

No kidding. I can see it not working out, but in what, 2 weeks when you've invested a 3rd? Awesome.

[WVUFAN]

What's the chance he winds up back in NE? It's obvious from that press conference that's where he wants to be.

[tucker rocky]

Gotta go to the Bengals with Ochochinco and T.O. :)

Batman, Robin, Riddler, and the Joker? :D
(T.O, Ohco, Moss, C.Palmer)

[spleen1015]

He was waived because all of the Minnesota media is talking about him now instead of Favre and his busted chin.

There is no way Favre stands for that!

[Sun Tzu]

This is not in any way true.

His longest catch of the year is 37 yards...hell the 49ers backup TE (who has been hurt for half the year) has a longer catch than that.

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

What's the chance he winds up back in NE? It's obvious from that press conference that's where he wants to be.

From what I've heard, not good. SEA and MIA already expressed interest. Of course, this has just happened so who knows what's real but I doubt every team passes. Of course, then the Pats wouldn't claim him so MIN would have to pay his salary.

edit: This is even assuming Belichick would want him back, which to be honest I'm not so sure about.

[Thomkal]

wow. all I can say is wow. If Minnesota wasn't already enough of a circus...

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

His longest catch of the year is 37 yards...hell the 49ers backup TE (who has been hurt for half the year) has a longer catch than that.

This is not a possession receiver.

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[Sun Tzu]

He's on pace to finish the year with 50 receptions, 715 yards and 10 TD's.

That sounds (at best) like a #2 or #3 wideout on a team that prefers the run over the pass. Why would anyone pick this guy up?

[Ksyrup]

His longest catch of the year is 37 yards...hell the 49ers backup TE (who has been hurt for half the year) has a longer catch than that.

True, but he's only got 20-something catches this year, so he's not possessing the ball much, either.

[Sun Tzu]

I didn't know making a one-handed catch disqualified a WR as being a possession receiver. I thought...you know...his production determined that.

My mistake.

*edit* Ksyrup makes a good point.

[thesloppy]

This brings up the same questions I always have about Minnesota:

1> Why don't the have a GM?
2> When did they last have a GM?
3> Who makes their personnel decisions?

Does Brad Childress really have carte blanche up there?

[M GO BLUE!!!]

wow. all I can say is wow. If Minnesota wasn't already enough of a circus...

Just to fuck with everybody, Minnesota should claim Moss on waivers. :D

[JAG]

C'mon down to Chicago Randy! I'm SURE you and Cutler will get along great.

That's where I was thinking for maximum humor, since he'll have two games vs the Vikings. Or else (sadly) the Cowboys.

[PackerFanatic]

This brings up the same questions I always have about Minnesota:

1> Why don't the have a GM?
2> When did they last have a GM?
3> Who makes their personnel decisions?

Does Brad Childress really have carte blanche up there?

Chilly doesn't seem like the kind of guy that has the balls to do something like this. This came from higher up.

[jbergey22]

He's on pace to finish the year with 50 receptions, 715 yards and 10 TD's.

That sounds (at best) like a #2 or #3 wideout on a team that prefers the run over the pass. Why would anyone pick this guy up?

There is more to the game than stats. The Pats gameplanned their defense around Moss yesterday(watch the tape) in which it opened it up for Harvin and gave AP some holes to run early in the game.

The problem is teams will adjust to what the Vikings are doing which leaves Childress clueless on how to adjust back. If Favre chucked it deep to Moss 5-6 times a game he would come up with 2-3 of them balls and draw an interference on another one of them.

[Abe Sargent]

They'd hafta have room for his contract though right?

we're in an uncapped year there DT.

[Izulde]

I think Moss in Miami would be great fun

[Abe Sargent]

Bearrs should pick him up and dress him in DeAngelo Hall's uni.

HAHAHAHAHAHA

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

I didn't know making a one-handed catch disqualified a WR as being a possession receiver. I thought...you know...his production determined that.


No, skills determine whether he is a possession receiver. Welker is a possession receiver. Boldin is a possession receiver. Marshall is a possession receiver.

Just because he wasn't being thrown to much doesn't make him a possession receiver.

[kingfc22]

This is awesome. What's next for the Vikes this year.

[SirFozzie]

In the good news category, this bit of insanity officially moves the Detroit Lions out of the role of "Laughing stock of the NFC North".. a role they held longer then Tiger Woods's stay at the top of the golf rankings.

[Mustang]

I wonder how Favre is taking this. It is like he saved up for a new car for 11 years, had it and then someone stole it out of his driveway after a few weeks.

I wish Ted was a mean spiteful little bastard and would pick up Randy Moss for Aaron Rodgers just for the drama.

[jbergey22]

Its too bad the trade deadline has passed. Bellichek probably could have reacquired him and traded him off for another 3rd round pick.

[Sun Tzu]

Ok so...if a guy use to be a "go long" receiver, but not longer has the speed to "go long," and he doesn't have the cojones to go over the middle and take a lick...what does that make him? Other than unproductive.

[tucker rocky]

This is awesome. What's next for the Vikes this year.

AP traded to GB? :D

[Mustang]

Ok so...if a guy use to be a "go long" receiver, but not longer has the speed to "go long," and he doesn't have the cojones to go over the middle and take a lick...what does that make him?

Joey Galloway

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

Ok so...if a guy use to be a "go long" receiver, but not longer has the speed to "go long," and he doesn't have the cojones to go over the middle and take a lick...what does that make him? Other than unproductive.

I'm just wondering why you think he no longer has the speed to "go long," because my eyes the past two seasons have said otherwise.

[jbergey22]

Ok so...if a guy use to be a "go long" receiver, but not longer has the speed to "go long," and he doesn't have the cojones to go over the middle and take a lick...what does that make him? Other than unproductive.

What makes you think he doesnt have the speed to go deep? Percy Harvin already admitted that Moss was faster than him when they were messing around after practice a couple of weeks ago.

And he wont be unproductive until teams figure out that hes not longer a threat as they still use umbrella coverages against him which like ive repeatedly mentioned opens up the offense for the Wes Welker/Percy Harvin types.

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

The Pats certainly respected him, as Merriweather provided deep cover to Moss on every play. Why else did Harvin get so much room?

[DaddyTorgo]

Moss absolutely has the speed.

[Sun Tzu]

Well then...that certainly worked out well for the Vikes then, didn't it.

[molson]

Apparently Teddy Bruschi said, ""If you have a full grown man as HC and a good core of players, then you want this man on your team."

[Sun Tzu]

What makes him so shitty now then? You're telling me that defenses are just now starting to play him deep?

[Rizon]

Best Answer - Chosen by Voters
Joey Galloway
73% 54 Votes

[molson]

What makes him so shitty now then? You're telling me that defenses are just now starting to play him deep?

I don't if we can look at the last 3 weeks as definitive proof that he's "so shitty now".

[jbergey22]

What makes him so shitty now then? You're telling me that defenses are just now starting to play him deep?

He loss some speed around 03-04 and no longer can beat these coverages consistently like he used to but that doesnt make him a shitty player.

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

The Pats weren't throwing him the ball. There was a change in offensive philosophy.

And if you're confused about his time in MIN please refer to the first page of the thread.

[jeff061]

Christ Sun Tzu, are you for real here? I can't even figure out what point you are trying to get accross.

He sure as shit isn't a possession receiver, I'm assuming you meant that as a negative commentary on his skills, but failed because you don't know what a possession receiver is?

[Lathum]

He opened up the offense for Harvin and AP. Harvin has been great since Moss got here. The game is much more than stats Lathum.

Moss hasnt done shit but just seeing all the different defenses the Pats threw at Moss yesterday shows how much respect he still gets.

Its not Moss's fault if that idiot Childress didnt know how to use him.

Pats are undefeated without him and Vikings are 1-3 with him, the only win barely beating the Cowboys. He obviously has made a tremendous on the field difference, his mailing it in Sunday when he should have caught a TD in Childress' fault?

Stop defending the idiot, he is a cancer and the team is better off without him.

[Sun Tzu]

Oh ok...so he was open, but they didn't want to throw it to him?

[DaddyTorgo]

http://twitter.com/JasonLaCanfora/statuses/29400646540#

[jeff061]

The Pats weren't throwing him the ball. There was a change in offensive philosophy.

And if you're confused about his time in MIN please refer to the first page of the thread.

They weren't throwing them, but he was still running the routes.

[Sun Tzu]

Christ Sun Tzu, are you for real here? I can't even figure out what point you are trying to get accross.

He sure as shit isn't a possession receiver, I'm assuming you meant that as a negative commentary on his skills, but failed because you don't know what a possession receiver is?

Please, by all means, enlighten me as to exactly what Moss is now. He isn't a productive deep threat, and he doesn't use his height to his advantage over the middle ala a quality TE.

I know I know.

Keyshawn Johnson.

[jeff061]

A deep threat who isn't as productive?


The guy is not running short inside routes 90% of the time, that's not going to happen. He only does to surprise the defense or to keep them honest. He runs deep, that's his skill. If he can't get the ball deep as well as he used to then he's just not as good as a WR as he used to be.

He is absolutely 100% not capable of being a possession receiver any more than he is a linebacker.

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

he doesn't use his height to his advantage over the middle ala a quality TE

Maybe then he'd be a possession receiver.

[jbergey22]

Pats are undefeated without him and Vikings are 1-3 with him, the only win barely beating the Cowboys. He obviously has made a tremendous on the field difference, his mailing it in Sunday when he should have caught a TD in Childress' fault?

Stop defending the idiot, he is a cancer and the team is better off without him.

Sometimes you have to let players play through their stuggles. I mean the Giants should have cut their entire defense after last year but they didnt and now they have one of the top defenses in the entire NFL.

I mean that moron Childress traded for Moss and knew exactly what he was getting. He didnt find a way to get him involved directly in the offense and cuts him right before their easiest stretch of games this year in which Moss would have likely found happiness.

[jeff061]

He can't work in traffic, can't take hits well, is not very quick, can't get YAC in traffic. Etc...will never be a Welker type.

[Scoobz0202]

Pats are undefeated without him and Vikings are 1-3 with him, the only win barely beating the Cowboys. He obviously has made a tremendous on the field difference, his mailing it in Sunday when he should have caught a TD in Childress' fault?

Stop defending the idiot, he is a cancer and the team is better off without him.

Without him, the Vikings averaged 14.3 points in the first three games. Since they have had them they averaged 21.5. 1-2 without him. 1-3 with him. Not like they were whooping ass before they got him.

With him the Patriots averaged 32.7 points. They were 3-1. Without him, they averaged 24.6 points and went 3-0. Again, not like they sucked WITH him.

Both teams offenses improved with him.

[Thomkal]

Just to fuck with everybody, Minnesota should claim Moss on waivers. :D

That would be epic :)

[Sun Tzu]

He can't work in traffic, can't take hits well, is not very quick, can't get YAC in traffic. Etc...will never be a Welker type.

You're comparing him to someone who is quite possibly the best possession receiver in the last 20 years. No shit he's not going to be Welker. He's a shitty possession reciever, but that's what he is now. He can't do anything else, so he's been relegated to a vastly overpaid possession receiver.

[jeff061]

The Pats offense has clearly suffered without him. But they seem to be a much more resilient and tough team since he left. They've gone from a 1st half team to a start slow but close the game out team. The transformation has happened shockingly quickly. Question is whether it was a coincidence or not.

[jeff061]

You're comparing him to someone who is quite possibly the best possession receiver in the last 20 years. No shit he's not going to be Welker. He's a shitty possession reciever, but that's what he is now. He can't do anything else, so he's been relegated to a vastly overpaid possession receiver.

Christ, I only picked Welker because he's who I am familiar with most, I meant that type of player not a carbon copy.

Its worth noting Welker has just about disappeared since Moss left.

[jbergey22]

Please, by all means, enlighten me as to exactly what Moss is now. He isn't a productive deep threat, and he doesn't use his height to his advantage over the middle ala a quality TE.

I know I know.

Keyshawn Johnson.

He's a WR that is capable of taking the top off a defense which defensive cordinators fear like nothing else. When you have a threat like Moss on your team you cant blitz as much as you want to nor play 8 in the box a lot against them teams. He was actually a perfect compliment to a team with AP and Harvin. Now that pipe dream is over.

[Mustang]

Overall this is just flat out odd. Part of this is probably Childress's frustration with Favre. He probably is pissed that he can't do anything to Favre so, went way overboard with Moss. If they were 5-2, no chance they release Moss and they just put up with his antics. But with a QB and WR being a thorn in his ass? No.

[Ksyrup]

I think we may need another Rally to Restore Sanity....

[jbergey22]

Overall this is just flat out odd. Part of this is probably Childress's frustration with Favre. He probably is pissed that he can't do anything to Favre so, went way overboard with Moss. If they were 5-2, no chance they release Moss and they just put up with his antics. But with a QB and WR being a thorn in his ass? No.

It probably is because Moss isnt afraid to say what everyone else on the team thinks which is Childress is an idiot and no one on the team respects him.

[Travis]

He's a WR that is capable of taking the top off a defense which defensive cordinators fear like nothing else. When you have a threat like Moss on your team you cant blitz as much as you want to nor play 8 in the box a lot against them teams. He was actually a perfect compliment to a team with AP and Harvin. Now that pipe dream is over.

Until Rice returns, then you arguably have a better offense than you had with Moss.

I was curious to see how things would work with all of them on the field, but I'd imagine most people, at this point, would take Rice over Moss if/when Rice is healthy.

[Sun Tzu]

I can't believe there are still people drinking the Moss kool-aid. I mean...c'mon, seriously here. How much of a homer could you possibly be?

[Kodos]

The Bears could use a legitimate receiver. :)

[RomaGoth]

I think Moss in Miami would be great fun

If seeing the train wreck that is his alma mater doesn't make Chad Henne cry, having Randy "cancer" Moss on his team sure as hell will.

[Matthean]

Let's go, Al Davis. Perfect opportunity to fuck up that little bit of momentum. Quash it now.

Too bad he died before this year's draft.

[DaddyTorgo]

Christ, I only picked Welker because he's who I am familiar with most, I meant that type of player not a carbon copy.

Its worth noting Welker has just about disappeared since Moss left.

And this (among other decisions) has totally fucked my fantasy team.

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

I can't believe there are still people drinking the Moss kool-aid. I mean...c'mon, seriously here. How much of a homer could you possibly be?

So you know more about football and Randy Moss's ability than Bill Belichick?

[RomaGoth]

And this (among other decisions) has totally fucked my fantasy team.

I have Moss on mine....:(

[jbergey22]

Until Rice returns, then you arguably have a better offense than you had with Moss.

I was curious to see how things would work with all of them on the field, but I'd imagine most people, at this point, would take Rice over Moss if/when Rice is healthy.

This could have something to do it. Perhaps Rice is closer than we think and Moss/Rice wouldnt have been a great combo.

[Kodos]

It's not done with. I hope New England pays him so he go out like a winner rather than end his career like TO has(floating from team to team) as Ive always liked Moss and think he is the best WR to ever play the game.

If he hasnt gotten paid by week 8 and the Pats arent a Super Bowl contender he will mail it in at that point.

Pats have no reason not to give him an extension.

I do agree that he respects Brady.


Whoever said Moss is the best WR in NFL history... wow. He isn't fit to sniff Jerry Rice's jock strap.

:)

[jeff061]

I can't believe there are still people drinking the Moss kool-aid. I mean...c'mon, seriously here. How much of a homer could you possibly be?

You just keep twisting things around. Let's make it simple.

He's not a possession receiver, that's just dumb. Saying he is not a possession receiver doesn't mean you think he's awesome, it just means you aren't saying stupid things.

Welker has seen the ball thrown to him less since Moss was gone. The common thinking about Welker was that he got the ball so many times because Moss was pulling defenders away from him. This was why Moss was still considered a productive WR even when he wasn't catching balls. So far, in a very limited sample size, this has been true.

Have to imagine Moss was even worse in the Minnesota locker room than any of us realize for this to happen given they gave up a 3rd round for him.

He'll likely be the same on just about any other team. There may be a couple he's well behaved on(not sure which) but he needs to sign on his own terms. Can't see him reacting well to be claimed off waivers.

[jbergey22]

I can't believe there are still people drinking the Moss kool-aid. I mean...c'mon, seriously here. How much of a homer could you possibly be?

Perhaps others are more familiar with Moss's skillset other than you?

[Sun Tzu]

What Kodos said. I've stuck to my original post from the beginning, despite you claiming I've "twisted things around."

[Jughead Spock]

Too bad he died before this year's draft.

Don't tease.

[jbergey22]

:)

Opinions are like assholes. Everyone has one.

Rice with the Raiders/Broncos wasnt the Rice you seen with the 49ers. Everyone gets old at a point and isnt as productive.

[Sun Tzu]

Perhaps others are more familiar with Moss's skillset other than you?

I think your extreme homerism has sapped all credibility from your Moss/Favre related posts. Nothing personal of course ;)

If a guy doesn't have the skills to go deep, then he's limited to making plays within 20 yards. Check. If you don't want to go over the middle for fear of getting blown up, then you're limited to curl/out/hitch/slant & dive routes. Check.

Jerry Rice was a fantastic possession receiver in his last five years for two reasons - he was able to run routes with extreme precision, and he could use his body to keep DB's from getting to the ball. He had nowhere near the speed he use to have, and everybody knew it. Randy Moss can't do any of these things well...and his production is declining rapidly. I just don't see how you could possibly argue that he's anything other than a one-trick pony with a gimp...a bad possession receiver.

[Pumpy Tudors]

I just heard from an insider that Randy Moss has signed with the Sacramento Mountain Lions of the UFL. Daunte Culpepper to Randy Moss, coached by Dennis Green. Can't wait.

[EagleFan]

Weeks like these really make me miss the NFL Week in Pics... :(

[jbergey22]

I just heard from an insider that Randy Moss has signed with the Sacramento Mountain Lions of the UFL. Daunte Culpepper to Randy Moss, coached by Dennis Green. Can't wait.

Haha!

[DaddyTorgo]

I think your extreme homerism has sapped all credibility from your Moss/Favre related posts. Nothing personal of course ;)

If a guy doesn't have the skills to go deep, then he's limited to making plays within 20 yards. Check. If you don't want to go over the middle for fear of getting blown up, then you're limited to curl/out/hitch/slant & dive routes. Check.

Jerry Rice was a fantastic possession receiver in his last five years for two reasons - he was able to run routes with extreme precision, and he could use his body to keep DB's from getting to the ball. He had nowhere near the speed he use to have, and everybody knew it. Randy Moss can't do any of these things well...and his production is declining rapidly. I just don't see how you could possibly argue that he's anything other than a one-trick pony with a gimp...a bad possession receiver.

Except you're wrong...Moss can still go deep.

[DaddyTorgo]

Weeks like these really make me miss the NFL Week in Pics... :(

:D

[Sun Tzu]

Then why doesn't he?

[MikeVic]

I just heard from an insider that Randy Moss has signed with the Sacramento Mountain Lions of the UFL. Daunte Culpepper to Randy Moss, coached by Dennis Green. Can't wait.

I had to look this up. They also have John Tice on the staff, nephew of Mike Tice.

[jbergey22]

I think your extreme homerism has sapped all credibility from your Moss/Favre related posts. Nothing personal of course ;)

If a guy doesn't have the skills to go deep, then he's limited to making plays within 20 yards. Check. If you don't want to go over the middle for fear of getting blown up, then you're limited to curl/out/hitch/slant & dive routes. Check.

Jerry Rice was a fantastic possession receiver in his last five years for two reasons - he was able to run routes with extreme precision, and he could use his body to keep DB's from getting to the ball. He had nowhere near the speed he use to have, and everybody knew it. Randy Moss can't do any of these things well...and his production is declining rapidly. I just don't see how you could possibly argue that he's anything other than a one-trick pony with a gimp...a bad possession receiver.

He has lost a step which no one has disagreed with you. We pretty much all agreed that he wasnt as productive either. What you are missing is that his value is in how defenses play him with allows other players to be more effective. You are just looking at Moss's numbers while the others involved in this debate realize how effective he is at making the players around him better. As someone else mentioned the Vikings and Patriots both averaged more points per game with Moss this year. Ive seen the difference in the Vikings offense when they had Moss as Harvin was an effective reciever, Peterson had more gaps to run through and Favre wasnt getting sacked every other play.

[molson]

Then why doesn't he?

He does.

You're talking like he has 0 catches for 0 TDs the last 5 years, and has never run a deep route.

[Sun Tzu]

Nah, I'm talking like he has zero TD catches (or any other catch for that matter) over 37 yards this year, which is the only year that matters right now.

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

Then why doesn't he?

The Merriweather PI wasn't a five yard cross.

As I said before, Belichick put safety help on him every play. Why did he do this? Pity?

[lordscarlet]

Weeks like these really make me miss the NFL Week in Pics... :(

I thought the same thing as soon as Rex Grossman went in the game.

[Matthean]

Nah, I'm talking like he has zero TD catches (or any other catch for that matter) over 37 yards this year, which is the only year that matters right now.

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I bet he could have gone for more than 37 yards there against one of the best corners in the game, but you know there was an endzone in the way.

[Mustang]

So, now they are saying he wasn't waived and this might be some Childress power play without approval?

WTF?

[Sun Tzu]

Didn't Revis come out after that play? You know...because he was hurt?

[molson]

Nah, I'm talking like he has zero TD catches (or any other catch for that matter) over 37 yards this year, which is the only year that matters right now.

So a deep route has to net a 40+ yard gain to be considered a "deep route"? What if you're closer to the end zone than that? If a screen pass yields a bunch of YAC, do you consider that a "deep route"? Football is a tough sport to get a full picture just from individual players stats.

And for some reason, you are still refusing to acknowledge the clear impact on Moss's deep routes to the passing games of the Patriots and Vikings.

[Lathum]

So, now they are saying he wasn't waived and this might be some Childress power play without approval?

WTF?

Where you seeing that?

[JS19]

Mike Shanahan says Donovan McNabb not in shape for 2-minute drill - ESPN (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=5753040)

Has Shannahan gone batshit crazy?

[Mustang]

Where you seeing that?

I've seen it on rotoworld, a few tweets and profootballtalk

[Sun Tzu]

So a deep route has to net a 40+ yard gain to be considered a "deep route"? What if you're closer to the end zone than that? If a screen pass yields a bunch of YAC, do you consider that a "deep route"? Football is a tough sport to get a full picture just from individual players stats.

And for some reason, you are still refusing to acknowledge the clear impact on Moss's deep routes to the passing games of the Patriots and Vikings.

I don't see Moss making any bigger of an impact by "going deep" to open up the underneath than any other wideout. He use to be able to stretch the field, but now that age has slowed him in multiple aspects of the game, he's just not producing.

It breaks down really simple...like this: The Moss that we use to know wouldn't be where he is now stat-wise, regardless of who was throwing him the ball. Claiming anything else to be true is absurd and ridiculous.

Moss use to be the best "go long" wideout in the business, bar none. Now he's a has-been, who is riding on his own tarnished up legacy to get a job.

[Matthean]

Didn't Revis come out after that play? You know...because he was hurt?

You still gonna ignore the fact that his teammates and the offenses overall were better when Moss was playing for them? It's just as easy to be a hater as it is a homer.

[molson]

I don't see Moss making any bigger of an impact by "going deep" to open up the underneath than any other wideout. He use to be able to stretch the field, but now that age has slowed him in multiple aspects of the game, he's just not producing. The Moss that we use to know wouldn't be where he is now stat-wise, regardless of who was throwing him the ball. Claiming anything else to be true is absurd and ridiculous.

Moss use to be the best "go long" wideout in the business, bar none. Now he's a has-been, who is riding on his own tarnished up legacy to get a job.

Yes, he's not as good as he used to be. I'm just responding to your contention that he doesn't run deep routes. He clearly does. You'll either have to just believe us or get a tape of one of his games from this year.

[Sun Tzu]

You still gonna ignore the fact that his teammates and the offenses overall were better when Moss was playing for them? It's just as easy to be a hater as it is a homer.

"overall better"

How would you quantify that? Other than PPG...which (lets be realistic here) doesn't go very far when looking at 4 games or less. A great team could play a terrible team one week and score 40 points, and then play a better team the next week and score 28 points.

[Sun Tzu]

Yes, he's not as good as he used to be. I'm just responding to your contention that he doesn't run deep routes. He clearly does. You'll either have to just believe us or get a tape of one of his games from this year.

You're not reading my posts if that's what you're getting. I'm saying he isn't productive as a deep threat...I never said he doesn't run deep routes.

[molson]

"overall better"

How would you quantify that? Other than PPG...which (lets be realistic here) doesn't go very far when looking at 4 games or less. A great team could play a terrible team one week and score 40 points, and then play a better team the next week and score 28 points.

What would be acceptable production from Moss at this point in his career, in your view? Like other said, I'm not even sure what you're contending.

The last two years, he's been around 1100 yards, 11 TDs. If he slips a little from that (depends on the offense he's with), and he's around 900 yards, 8-9 TDs, a strong red zone target, a drawer of deep PI penalties, while going deep and stretching the defense, what is that? WR gutter trash?

[jbergey22]

Jay Glazier amd Jason La Canfora are reporting that Moss has NOT been waived.

Perhaps the Vikings are changing their mind and thinking that firing their coach is the better move.

[Passacaglia]

You're not reading my posts if that's what you're getting. I'm saying he isn't productive as a deep threat...I never said he doesn't run deep routes.

Dude, it was just 21 minutes between when you said it and when you denied saying it -- it's even on the same page!

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

The Merriweather PI wasn't a five yard cross.

As I said before, Belichick put safety help on him every play. Why did he do this? Pity?

Waiting for a response here...

[molson]

You're not reading my posts if that's what you're getting. I'm saying he isn't productive as a deep threat...I never said he doesn't run deep routes.

First you argued that he was a possession receiver, then in response to a post that "Moss can still go deep," your response was "why doesn't he?"

He's not a possession receiver, and he does go deep. He's a deep threat. Watch the games. You're the only one claiming he's not. Your argument appears to be that in 7 games this year he hasn't had a 40+ yard reception. That's not very compelling.

[stevew]

I think the Chargers would be a good fit if he is actually cut. They have a lot of WR problems, and it seems to be a style that he could thrive in. At 3-5, they aren't out of it yet. I don't think the Chiefs are for real.

[AlexB]

Nice line by random bloke on Twitter:

Note to Pats: Sign Moss just so "Pats trade Randy Moss to Minnesota for a 3rd round pick and Randy Moss" can run on ESPN's ticker.

:D

[jeff061]

Jay Glazier amd Jason La Canfora are reporting that Moss has NOT been waived.

Perhaps the Vikings are changing their mind and thinking that firing their coach is the better move.

From what I read they are reporting he is not on the waiver report today, still could be tomorrow.

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

This is the article. It's Glazer.

Glazer: Moss not waived yet, still not informed of move | ProFootballTalk.com (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/11/01/glazer-moss-not-waived-yet-still-not-informed-of-move/)

[Sun Tzu]

You took "then why doesn't he?" as me completely changing my argument from "Moss isn't productive anymore" to "he doesn't even bother running deep routes anymore" ???

My god...lay off the drugs. For several pages I've repeated the same argument..."he isn't good enough to be productive deep" but for whatever reason you just can't take that for face value. You have to assign some hidden meaning to it that is somehow, in some way, saying that you as a person don't know the difference between a football and a golf ball.

If you think Moss is no different than he was five years ago, great! You're delusional. If you think Moss this year, which is the only year that matters...not the last two years, not the last five years, not the last 10 years...but this year, is significantly worse to the extent that two teams have already dropped him without thinking twice about it...then you're on the same page as me.

Criminy...I'm not Makiaveli in disguise here.

[Matthean]

I think the Chargers would be a good fit if he is actually cut. They have a lot of WR problems, and it seems to be a style that he could thrive in. At 3-5, they aren't out of it yet. I don't think the Chiefs are for real.

I'm sure Rivers would be a great QB for him. *cough*

[jbergey22]

This is from rototimes

Apparently, the Vikings management is not quite sold on cutting the talented but troubled receiver. FOX Sports' Jay Glazer is also reporting that Moss hasn't been waived just yet. The Vikings would now have to let him go by tomorrow's 4 P.M. EST deadline, which would push his claim date back one day. This story is getting stranger by the second. Stay tuned.

[molson]

From what I read they are reporting he is not on the waiver report today, still could be tomorrow.

I wonder if you're allowed to waive somebody when the game week is still going on. With a waiver period of only 24 hours, it would seem somewhat unfair, I guess, to require teams who haven't played their game that week to participate in the same manner as teams who have already played.

[Matthean]

You took "then why doesn't he?" as me completely changing my argument from "Moss isn't productive anymore" to "he doesn't even bother running deep routes anymore" ???

My god...lay off the drugs. For several pages I've repeated the same argument..."he isn't good enough to be productive deep" but for whatever reason you just can't take that for face value. You have to assign some hidden meaning to it that is somehow, in some way, saying that you as a person don't know the difference between a football and a golf ball.

If you think Moss is no different than he was five years ago, great! You're delusional. If you think Moss this year, which is the only year that matters...not the last two years, not the last five years, not the last 10 years...but this year, is significantly worse to the extent that two teams have already dropped him without thinking twice about it...then you're on the same page as me.

Criminy...I'm not Makiaveli in disguise here.

I'm guessing he wasn't dropped due to production.

[Lathum]

This is the article. It's Glazer.

Glazer: Moss not waived yet, still not informed of move | ProFootballTalk.com (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/11/01/glazer-moss-not-waived-yet-still-not-informed-of-move/)

NFL Network just showed a statement from Mosses agent.

They are reporting it is official, though and what happened was Chilly has unilateral control over personnel in his contract and he made the move without telling ownership. apparently they found out through the players.

[molson]

If you think Moss is no different than he was five years ago, great! You're delusional.

Nobody's remotely arguing that dude, but if you want to backpedal on the the possession receiver/deep route stuff that people were arguing with you about, that's cool. (If you're just saying he's not productive, that's obviously wrong too. He's not 2007 Randy Moss, no doubt, but even in this lost season, he's still made big plays).

[SirFozzie]

started with the Sports Guy, Bill Simmons. He's good for quips like that. And it's insane that Childress would tell the team he's waiving the player and then not have the player show up on the waiver wire. That's an instant lose-the-locker room moment (if 2-5 means he hasn't lost them already)

[Sun Tzu]

if you want to backpedal on the the possession receiver/deep route stuff that people were arguing with you about, that's cool.

I'd love it if you quoted me somewhere as saying "I think he's a deep threat, not a possession receiver."

I'll wait.

[Alan T]

The passion/hatred Sun Tzu is showing is something usually found only in political threads around here! :)


Anyways, I would love to have some insider report explain what actually happened in the Vikings practices this week. Between the way moss behaved at the press conference to pretty much instantly being waived after reminds me of the Moss from his Oakland days.

I would love a clearer understanding of what happened because I was under the impression that Moss -wanted- to be in Minnesota, but everything we've seen this past week doesn't seem to show that at all.

I still stand by my previous comment though that I think the Bills should pick up Moss. That is a team that clearly can't hurt themselves any more by adding a locker room cancer. Even though I do give points to the idea floated in the thread earlier that Moss to Cincy would be the best thing ever from a circuit point of view.

[molson]

I'd love it if you quoted me somewhere as saying "I think he's a deep threat, not a possession receiver."

I'll wait.

No, you think he's a possession receiver, and not a deep threat. I've actually already quoted that.

You really want me to do it again? OK.

"I just don't understand why any team would want Moss...just in general. He's become a possession receiver, which doesn't work because he's afraid to get hit. He's terrible with the press, he's terrible (from what I hear) in the locker room and he's lost all perspective on what it's like to not have $80M in the bank. The guy is a walking, talking, breathing joke of a person."

When someone responded that Moss was not, in fact, a possession receiver you responded:

"His longest catch of the year is 37 yards...hell the 49ers backup TE (who has been hurt for half the year) has a longer catch than that."

THEN - when people continued to respond that Moss was not, in fact, a possession receiver, you responded;;

"I didn't know making a one-handed catch disqualified a WR as being a possession receiver. I thought...you know...his production determined that.

My mistake."

THEN - you kind of changed your mind to "he can't go deep""

"Ok so...if a guy use to be a "go long" receiver, but not longer has the speed to "go long," and he doesn't have the cojones to go over the middle and take a lick...what does that make him? Other than unproductive."

FINALLY, when someone insisted, yes, Moss can still go deep, you responded.

"So why doesn't he."

[Sun Tzu]

I prefer the URL route. It would be like watching TNA...but Football. All the faces you remember from 1998 are back, bust just a little older and a lot slower.

[Sun Tzu]

...

I'm having problems finding exactly where it is in that quote box where I'm backing out of my "he's a shitty possession receiver, but a possession receiver nonetheless" stance...

Unless you didn't pick up on the sarcasm intended for "my mistake."

[jeff061]

Holy christ Sun Tzu, really?

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

The Merriweather PI wasn't a five yard cross.

As I said before, Belichick put safety help on him every play. Why did he do this? Pity?

Waiting for a response here...

I guess you are a better football mind than Belichick?

[Sun Tzu]

So...the argument on your side is "he's a deep threat that doesn't catch deep balls" ???

[jbergey22]

So...the argument on your side is "he's a deep threat that doesn't catch deep balls" ???

Holy Shit! Have you not followed any of this?

[Sun Tzu]

I guess you are a better football mind than Belichick?

He's been getting safety help for the last 10+ years. The difference is, this year he can't beat it. I've stated this numerous times...

[jbergey22]

He's been getting safety help for the last 10+ years. The difference is, this year he can't beat it. I stated this numerous times...

Who gives a shit if he cant beat it. As long as they keep playing it against him he is productive.

[Sun Tzu]

Holy Shit! Have you not followed any of this?

...vague...much?