The FOFC Keeper League 2011

[Lathum]

With the lockout about to end I think we should get started on this season.

I sent a PM to everyone so hopefully people will be coming back. I think a week is a fair amount of time for conformation. Once we know who is coming back we can get new members if need be, my wife would like to be first alternate if possible.

I have asked TLK to take the lead again if he would be swo kind in getting a schedule set up, but if not I'll do it.

Hope to see everyone back.

[Lathum]

Returning

1. Lathum
2. Packerfanatic
3. Jonnyshaka
4. SI
5. Cubboyroy
6, Jag
7. Spleen
8. EF27
9. Samifan
10. tlk
11. Saldana
12. MikeVic

Alternates
1. MollyMurphy
2. CarmenBulldog
3. Danny

[Lathum]

in

[PackerFanatic]

Count me in.

[johnnyshaka]

In

[Carman Bulldog]

Throw me on the alternate list.

[sterlingice]

Sounds like a plan to me! I'm back if football is

SI

[cubboyroy1826]

Positively coming back.

[Danny]

interested

[JAG]

Back again.

[spleen1015]

This is the fleaflicker league, right?

EDIT - If so, I was a late addition last season. I'm still in if you guys will have me.

[Lathum]

This is the fleaflicker league, right?

EDIT - If so, I was a late addition last season. I'm still in if you guys will have me.

yes, I for got you took over for issidiqui. you are in

[Eaglesfan27]

I'll be back.

[samifan24]

I'm in again

[TLK]

I'll be back. I'm not getting excited about fantasy football until there is a settlement. I'll get something up as soon as a settlement is reached.

[saldana]

In

[Lathum]

ok, just waiting on MikeVic and the NFL lockout to end

[MikeVic]

I'm in as well.

[Lathum]

OK, everyone is back!

So when the lockout ends TLK will get a schedule up and we will get the ball rolling again.

Is this the last season for the three year rule?

[TLK]

Do we have any rule changes to vote on? I can't remember any...

[JAG]

Looking at last year's thread:

The FOFC Keeper League - 2010 Season - Front Office Football Central (http://www.operationsports.com/fofc/showthread.php?t=78626&highlight=Keeper)

I didn't see anything.

One thing I thought about but didn't officially propose was an idea to be able to put a keeper on IR if they suffer an injury that will keep them out a while. You're already a bit punished with having a good player out to also have to deal with the smaller bench as a result. The idea is it would work like a real life IR, you retain the rights to the player, you free them up from your roster spot, but if they get healthy you can't take them off IR until the season is over (to force you to make a decision in cases where it isn't obvious if they're out the rest of the year and so you don't use it as a way to get around bye weeks or short injuries).

We made a rule change about trading keepers in the offseason last year, correct? Do we know what the rules are for that? (can we trade draft picks with them or for them for example or just straight-up swaps?)

[Lathum]

Not sure if we would be able to do the IR spot with fleaflickers software

[JAG]

Looks like you might be right, though it could still be done outside the software. Require an announcement in-thread for example and just edit a post with list of players / teams with guys on IR. There are only 48 possible players it could happen for and I'd wager it would never end being more than say 8 of those in a year tops.

Anyway, I don't think this is a major issue, I don't mind dropping the idea altogether.

[TLK]

The IR idea will fly on FleaFlicker. We can vote on that.

[cubboyroy1826]

I would be for the IR idea.

[TLK]

What players should be eligible for off-season trades... last years keepers or anybody from last years roster? We never really finished discussing it.

Once we get everyone's opinions on who is eligible, I'd like to do a one week trade window. This will allow free agency to play out in the NFL.

[JAG]

I believe we said keepers, but Id have to dig through the old thread to confirm. I think that would be most fair as it seems like it could be unbalancing if it was anyone. It would reward teams that did really well and punish teams that did poorly moreso than just allowing trade of keepers (unless a bad team was deep in a specific position but poor everywhere else).

[PackerFanatic]

I'd have to say just keepers - to me, when the season ends, it's no longer your team (except for the keepers you choose to keep). If you choose to trade one of those keepers, they obviously count as one of your keepers for that season.

[TLK]

FOFC Keeper League 2011 Schedule:


July 29th – Owners Meeting. We will vote on any proposals that have been brought up. Any proposals will be accepted until this day.

August 1st – Trade Window. Four day trade window as NFL free agency plays itself out.

August 5th - All keepers are due, leaving five days before the draft to prepare. Remember, we have four keepers (QB,RB,WR/TE and Last Season Rookie.)

August 10th – The draft starts. Picks will be made through the FleaFlicker site. No time limit will be imposed to start the draft, but you're encouraged to make your pick within 12 hours of the previous pick.

August 23rd - Draft continues with normal draft rules. Two hours per pick with the clock active from 10:00 AM EST until 12:00 AM EST. You are encouraged to send in a list if you will not be around.

[TLK]

Past League Champions:
2004 (http://operationsports.com/fofc/showthread.php?t=29613) - Lathum's Brew Crew
2005 (http://operationsports.com/fofc/showthread.php?t=40277) - Vic's Heroes
2006 (http://operationsports.com/fofc/showthread.php?t=51837) - Callous Dowboys
2007 (http://operationsports.com/fofc/showthread.php?t=60135) - Callous Dowboys
2008 (http://operationsports.com/fofc/showthread.php?t=67125) - Shaka's Big Shooters
2009 (http://operationsports.com/fofc/showthread.php?t=73767) - Houston Hippopotami
2010 (http://operationsports.com/fofc/showthread.php?t=78626) – The FOFC All-Stars

[TLK]

Keeper Rules:
-The amount of years a player can be a keeper is limited to three.
-If a player is picked as a "rookie keeper", it's counts as the first year of his three.
-This number is reset if a player is moved in a trade.

2011 Keepers:

2010 Keepers:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v230/TheLionKing/keeper2010.png

2009 Keepers:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v230/TheLionKing/2009Keepers.png

[TLK]

2011 Draft Order
1. Shaka's Big Shooters
2. Touchdown Mafia
3. Gridiron Warriors
4. Vic's Heroes
5. Lathum's Brew Crew
6. South Side Roughnecks
7. Sal's Trangenders
8. Houston Hippopotami
9. The Insomniacs
10. All on Black
11. Callous Dowboys
12. The FOFC All-Stars

[Lathum]

I'm excited to see how trades and such play out with many good players hitting the 3 year cap.

[Lathum]

I'd have to say just keepers - to me, when the season ends, it's no longer your team (except for the keepers you choose to keep). If you choose to trade one of those keepers, they obviously count as one of your keepers for that season.

I kind of disagree. I think we should either name keepers earlier or be able to trade anyone on our roster so that someone else can keep them if they liike.

[PackerFanatic]

Next year will be pretty exciting with a lot of the original keepers hitting the market :) Either that or a ton of trades this year.

[Lathum]

Next year will be pretty exciting with a lot of the original keepers hitting the market :) Either that or a ton of trades this year.

yeah, anyone wants to talk trade I am always game.

[PackerFanatic]

I kind of disagree. I think we should either name keepers earlier or be able to trade anyone on our roster so that someone else can keep them if they liike.

The only thing about this that I would find kind of lame is the fact that if I trade for someone after the season, it should not count against me to keep them - meaning it shouldn't count as a season, since they never played for my team (since it was the offseason). It's a question of when do we consider the previous season ended and the next season started - and can we do trades before we announce keepers, or do we need to announce them sooner like you said (not sure I like that either, I like later better)

[spleen1015]

Just to make sure I have this straight.

I have to keep a QB, RB, and WR/TE. A rookie keeper is optional.

[johnnyshaka]

Not sure how I end up with the first pick overall but I'm not complaining. :)

Johnnyshaka's Big Shooters Keepers:

QB M. Vick
RB M. Turner
WR D. Bowe
Rookie C.J. Spiller

[Lathum]

Just to make sure I have this straight.

I have to keep a QB, RB, and WR/TE. A rookie keeper is optional.

Technically you dont have to

[Lathum]

I am so torn on BigBen or Cutler as my keeper

[spleen1015]

Technically you dont have to

Got it. Thanks.

[JAG]

Not sure how I end up with the first pick overall but I'm not complaining. :)

Johnnyshaka's Big Shooters Keepers:

QB M. Vick
RB M. Turner
WR D. Bowe
Rookie C.J. Spiller

So you're already sure you don't want to make any trades?

[Lathum]

So IO think we need to get it worked out who you can and can't trade right now. IMO you should be able to trade anyone on your roster from last season. My view is they are still a part of your team. If you have the option to keep them why can't you trade them?

For example- I have big ben and Cutler, I would love to trade one of them to 27 who has Carson Palmer and Favre (doh!) I should be able to trade one so EF can keep him.

[spleen1015]

I agree with Lathum on the trading issue.

I also think that if you get a guy in a trad and you decide to keep him, he has 1 year against him since he won't be in the draft this year.

[Lathum]

I also think that if you get a guy in a trad and you decide to keep him, he has 1 year against him since he won't be in the draft this year.

I agree with this point as well

[johnnyshaka]

So you're already sure you don't want to make any trades?

Keepers can change prior to the deadline...just want to get my list in there early to make sure I've got something down in writing.

Regarding trading at this point...my opinion is that the trade deadline has passed and trading shouldn't be open until keepers are in.

[Lathum]

Thats like saying the Eagles can't trade Kevin Kolb until he becoms part of their 52 man roster. MAkes no sense.

[johnnyshaka]

Thats like saying the Eagles can't trade Kevin Kolb until he becoms part of their 52 man roster. MAkes no sense.

I'm suggesting our fantasy teams, past the deadline, are essentially FAs at the end of the season except that we get to "tag" or "re-sign" three (plus a rookie) players prior to the season.

What's wrong with having to make a tough decision or two regarding who to keep and then making the draft more meaningful?

[JAG]

I also think that if you get a guy in a trad and you decide to keep him, he has 1 year against him since he won't be in the draft this year.

I agree with this. Good idea.

[JAG]

I'm suggesting our fantasy teams, past the deadline, are essentially FAs at the end of the season except that we get to "tag" or "re-sign" three (plus a rookie) players prior to the season.

What's wrong with having to make a tough decision or two regarding who to keep and then making the draft more meaningful?

We voted on this proposal last year and it passed 9-3.

3. Allow off-season trades from after the championship game until before keepers are announced.

[johnnyshaka]

We voted on this proposal last year and it passed 9-3.

3. Allow off-season trades from after the championship game until before keepers are announced.

That's fine...just stating my opinion on the subject.

[sterlingice]

Ok, I need to go back and look at my team

SI

[samifan24]

The FOFC All-Stars Keepers

QB: Philip Rivers, SD
RB: Darren McFadden, OAK
WR/TE: Roddy White, ATL
Rookie: Mike Williams, WR, TB

[TLK]

I agree with Lathum on the trading issue.

I also think that if you get a guy in a trad and you decide to keep him, he has 1 year against him since he won't be in the draft this year.

I think this is the way to go.

[PackerFanatic]

So what about the trading deadline? Does that just end when the season does? If that is the case, I would expect our teams to end too (except for those we keep).

[PackerFanatic]

I also think that if you get a guy in a trad and you decide to keep him, he has 1 year against him since he won't be in the draft this year.

Well if you are trading at this point (between the end of last season and before keepers are announced), you are obviously going to keep the guy - would be no point in doing the trade otherwise. I just feel it's unfair to the team getting him to already have 1 year against him...my understanding of the 3-year rule is that its 3 years on the same team, not 3 years in general. So you should be able to actually USE him for 3 years (instead of just 2 if you trade for him)

[spleen1015]

Well if you are trading at this point (between the end of last season and before keepers are announced), you are obviously going to keep the guy - would be no point in doing the trade otherwise. I just feel it's unfair to the team getting him to already have 1 year against him...my understanding of the 3-year rule is that its 3 years on the same team, not 3 years in general. So you should be able to actually USE him for 3 years (instead of just 2 if you trade for him)

So what happens if a player is kept for 3 years and in the middle of the 3rd year he is traded? Does his 3 years start over since he is on a new team?

What is the purpose of the rule? Is the purpose of the rule to keep Peyton Manning from being on the same team for 18 years, helping this team dominate for those years or is the purpose of the rule to have studs like Manning in the draft every so often so that the draft isn't stale? Both?

I've been playing fantasy football since 1999 and last year was the first year I was in a league that played with keepers. One of the 2 leagues I commish made the switch last year. So, my experience with fantasy football keepers is limited, so I may not look at it like others.

[JAG]

Well if you are trading at this point (between the end of last season and before keepers are announced), you are obviously going to keep the guy - would be no point in doing the trade otherwise. I just feel it's unfair to the team getting him to already have 1 year against him...my understanding of the 3-year rule is that its 3 years on the same team, not 3 years in general. So you should be able to actually USE him for 3 years (instead of just 2 if you trade for him)

Oh, maybe I misunderstood what spleen meant. I agree, keepers you trade for you should be able to use for three years. That doesn't seem unfair to me, when you draft a non-rookie, you can potentially have them four years (the first year you use them and the three times you keep them afterwards).

I suggest we start voting on the proposals for the upcoming season now so we have the most time possible to work out trades prior to declaring keepers and prepping for the draft.

[cubboyroy1826]

Okay dumb question is there a way to tell if a player on our roster was a rookie last year? I can go check on my own of course but wasn't sure if there was some way to tell from the site.

[PackerFanatic]

So what happens if a player is kept for 3 years and in the middle of the 3rd year he is traded? Does his 3 years start over since he is on a new team?

What is the purpose of the rule? Is the purpose of the rule to keep Peyton Manning from being on the same team for 18 years, helping this team dominate for those years or is the purpose of the rule to have studs like Manning in the draft every so often so that the draft isn't stale? Both?

I've been playing fantasy football since 1999 and last year was the first year I was in a league that played with keepers. One of the 2 leagues I commish made the switch last year. So, my experience with fantasy football keepers is limited, so I may not look at it like others.

I think it's a little bit of both, but more so the first. If you trade someone in the middle of the year, you would actually get to him, so that should count as one year (since he was on your team prior to the end of the year and you used him). My thinking is that once the season is over, you don't get to use your players anymore, so there is no reason that anyone you get between then and the start of the next season should count against you.

I do like the idea of trading players after the season ends, and I am even okay with your entire roster being up for grabs prior to the draft, but they should be treated like anyone else you would draft that season (in terms of tenure length on your team starting at 0)

[PackerFanatic]

Okay dumb question is there a way to tell if a player on our roster was a rookie last year? I can go check on my own of course but wasn't sure if there was some way to tell from the site.

I don't see anything on there that shows that, so you'd have to go through each - as a note, you have no rookies from last year :)

[johnnyshaka]

What's the point of having a rule to only be able to keep keepers for 3 years if you can just continue to trade the best players for the best players every year or two?

[JAG]

What's the point of having a rule to only be able to keep keepers for 3 years if you can just continue to trade the best players for the best players every year or two?

Before the three year rule, there was nothing in place to stop this from happening either. This way at least encourages more transactions, more decisions to make = more interesting to me. And people will make mistakes, they'll screw up in their evaluations or someone will get hurt or a team will lose their best WRs in free agency and leave the QB with no one to throw to...any number of things can happen. And it'll be fun to look back on those transactions in my opinion (or smack yourself for doing something stupid, like I did keeping Steve Slaton over Chris Johnson).

[cubboyroy1826]

Thanks Packer. I didn't think so but that Steve Johnson was a bit of a puzzler and I had not gone any further than the site.

[Lathum]

Before the three year rule, there was nothing in place to stop this from happening either. This way at least encourages more transactions, more decisions to make = more interesting to me. And people will make mistakes, they'll screw up in their evaluations or someone will get hurt or a team will lose their best WRs in free agency and leave the QB with no one to throw to...any number of things can happen. And it'll be fun to look back on those transactions in my opinion (or smack yourself for doing something stupid, like I did keeping Steve Slaton over Chris Johnson).

I agree with this.

[Lathum]

My vision for the 3 year keeper rule with regards to trades would be something like this.

Lets say I trade Jamaal Charles to Saldada today. Sal gets Charles for the 2011, 2012, and 2013 season then has to deal him or he goes into the draft pool. If I trade him during the season, lets say week 6 of last year, he would count for the 2010, 2011, and 2012 season.

[sterlingice]

That sounds legit to me. Makes for a lot of wheeling and dealing every 3rd year, I suppose

SI

[Lathum]

That sounds legit to me. Makes for a lot of wheeling and dealing every 3rd year, I suppose

SI

Actually when we get into a rhythm it will be every year. This season and next off season will be very active because it is the first year the rule kicks in, but every year there will be guys who cant be kept.

[TLK]

We seem to have some sort of agreement of the trade rules. I'm on the way out, but if anyone wants to write up the proposals for the trade rule and the IR rule... feel free and everyone can start voting on it. If not, I'll get to it tomorrow as planned.

[PackerFanatic]

Before the three year rule, there was nothing in place to stop this from happening either. This way at least encourages more transactions, more decisions to make = more interesting to me. And people will make mistakes, they'll screw up in their evaluations or someone will get hurt or a team will lose their best WRs in free agency and leave the QB with no one to throw to...any number of things can happen. And it'll be fun to look back on those transactions in my opinion (or smack yourself for doing something stupid, like I did keeping Steve Slaton over Chris Johnson).

Agreed with this as well.

[PackerFanatic]

My vision for the 3 year keeper rule with regards to trades would be something like this.

Lets say I trade Jamaal Charles to Saldada today. Sal gets Charles for the 2011, 2012, and 2013 season then has to deal him or he goes into the draft pool. If I trade him during the season, lets say week 6 of last year, he would count for the 2010, 2011, and 2012 season.

I suppose I can get on board with this...the only sticking point I really have is if Sal were to get Charles now, he should be allow to keep him through 2014 (since keeping him after 2013 would technically be his third year) - so he'd keep him after 2011 (for 2012 season), after 2012 (for 2013 season), and after 2013 (for 2014 season). To me, having this season count as a keeper year is somewhat discouraging people from doing a deal in the offseason.

[Lathum]

I suppose I can get on board with this...the only sticking point I really have is if Sal were to get Charles now, he should be allow to keep him through 2014 (since keeping him after 2013 would technically be his third year) - so he'd keep him after 2011 (for 2012 season), after 2012 (for 2013 season), and after 2013 (for 2014 season). To me, having this season count as a keeper year is somewhat discouraging people from doing a deal in the offseason.

I disagree. He would be keeping him this year since keepers haven't been announced yet.

The whole point is to not have a guy on your roster more than 3 years.

[PackerFanatic]

Then we shouldn't be allowed to trade before keepers are announced...he still technically wouldn't be on the roster more than 3 years, since he wouldn't be used that first "year" (would you really count that a year?)

[spleen1015]

This feels like it is getting too complicated. I think it is going to end up being a headache for whomever has to keep track of it.

I think a guy should be allowed to be a keeper for 3 years, period. The number of keeper years he has left should be something to consider when you make a trade.

[Lathum]

Then we shouldn't be allowed to trade before keepers are announced...he still technically wouldn't be on the roster more than 3 years, since he wouldn't be used that first "year" (would you really count that a year?)

Either I'm not explaining myself well or you are missing something, either way this shouldn't be this hard.

If you keep a guy 3 times, after the third time he goes back into the draft.

[PackerFanatic]

That makes sense to me and I agree with all that. The question that I am bringing up is this: when does the season official end - at the end of the NFL season or when we announce our keepers? It sounds to me like we probably answered that already with our vote last year, so maybe I am arguing for no reason. It just doesn't make sense to me to trade for someone, and then be forced to "keep" him, when you didn't get to use him the previous year (which is why I think trading shouldn't be allowed until keepers are announced)

[PackerFanatic]

Gridiron Warriors Keepers
QB: Aaron Rodgers
RB: Frank Gore
WR: Sidney Rice
Rookie: Haven't keep one yet, why start now? :)

[spleen1015]

I am finding it hard to come with a good trade with all of this keeper business.

I am looking to upgrade my options at WR. Feel free to throw me some offers.

[TLK]

-Off-season trade Rules
-Trades will be allowed for two weeks after the championship game and then one month before keepers are announced.
-Players may be traded for players, draft picks or players and picks
-Any player received in a trade automatically becomes a keeper at their position for their new team
-When becoming one of the teams keepers, the player will have one year of service counted against the limit.

Thoughts?

[Lathum]

It just doesn't make sense to me to trade for someone, and then be forced to "keep" him, when you didn't get to use him the previous year (which is why I think trading shouldn't be allowed until keepers are announced)

Why would you trade for a player in the offseason and not keep him?

[JAG]

Thoughts?

Works for me, though I wouldn't think anyone would make a trade in the two week post Championship window.

[johnnyshaka]

Why would you trade for a player in the offseason and not keep him?

Injuries and trade implications come to mind.

[sterlingice]

I have an interesting WR decision to make now...

SI

[JAG]

Callous Dowboys Trading Block

RB Adrian Peterson
WR Vincent Jackson
QB Josh Freeman (also willing to trade Romo if anyone's trading a better QB as part of a deal)

In Exchange For

Draft Picks
Maybe a really elite QB / RB (yeah right...)
Not a WR or rookie

[PackerFanatic]

Why would you trade for a player in the offseason and not keep him?

Obviously you wouldn't, hence the quotes around keep -

[PackerFanatic]

Works for me, though I wouldn't think anyone would make a trade in the two week post Championship window.

Agreed with this, not sure this piece is even needed.

I can get on board with the rest. Probably the cleanest way to handle it all.

[TLK]

All owners will need to vote on these proposals. Majority rules. Post your votes in this thread.

1. Do you agree to these off-season trade rules? Yay or Nay?

-Off-season trade Rules
-Trades will be allowed one month before keepers are announced.
-Players may be traded for players, draft picks or players and picks
-Any player received in a trade automatically becomes a keeper at their position for their new team
-When becoming one of the teams keepers, the player will have one year of service counted against the limit.

2. Add an IR position to our rosters. To qualify a player must be on the NFL IR. A team will only get one IR spot per year. Yay or Nay?

[TLK]

1. Yay
2. Yay

[johnnyshaka]

1. Nay
2. Yay

[cubboyroy1826]

1. Yay
2. Yay

[Eaglesfan27]

1. Yay
2. Yay

[Lathum]

yay
yay

[PackerFanatic]

Are we allowed to re-use the IR spot (ie, if we have someone there, then want to "save" someone else instead, can we drop the person on IR and move the new person in there?)

[JAG]

1. Yay
2. Yay

Are we allowed to re-use the IR spot (ie, if we have someone there, then want to "save" someone else instead, can we drop the person on IR and move the new person in there?)

For simplicity's sake, I would say no. I guess it would depend on how Fleaflicker's software does it also.

[spleen1015]

1. Yay
2. Nay

[sterlingice]

Quick dumb clarification about the new keeper rules since I'm not quite sure I'm getting it. So, I've got Tom Brady and Vic's Heroes has Drew Brees. We've both kept them 2 season and next season will be their third. At the end of next season, if we don't trade them midseason, are they gone off of our team? Or next offseason, do he and I just find each other since and go "Hey, you have Brees and I have Brady and they're both top 5 QBs. We're both going to lose them if we don't do something so let's swap." It seems to me like keepers who hit 3 years should be released at the end of the season and before the trading window, otherwise you'll just have this silly recycling every 3 years. If you wanted to trade them you need to do it this offseason, and lose a season of eligibility or midseason and risk disrupting your team.

SI

[Lathum]

Quick dumb clarification about the new keeper rules since I'm not quite sure I'm getting it. So, I've got Tom Brady and Vic's Heroes has Drew Brees. We've both kept them 2 season and next season will be their third. At the end of next season, if we don't trade them midseason, are they gone off of our team? Or next offseason, do he and I just find each other since and go "Hey, you have Brees and I have Brady and they're both top 5 QBs. We're both going to lose them if we don't do something so let's swap." It seems to me like keepers who hit 3 years should be released at the end of the season and before the trading window, otherwise you'll just have this silly recycling every 3 years. If you wanted to trade them you need to do it this offseason, and lose a season of eligibility or midseason and risk disrupting your team.

SI

I see your point but it may not always be the case. People may rather get draft picks or may have a backup almost as good. I think worse case scenerio is it becomes a swap for top 5 guys and we rethink the rule.

[saldana]

1. no
2. yes

[Lathum]

for the couple of people who have voted no for the trade rules just curios why

[spleen1015]

Quick dumb clarification about the new keeper rules since I'm not quite sure I'm getting it. So, I've got Tom Brady and Vic's Heroes has Drew Brees. We've both kept them 2 season and next season will be their third. At the end of next season, if we don't trade them midseason, are they gone off of our team? Or next offseason, do he and I just find each other since and go "Hey, you have Brees and I have Brady and they're both top 5 QBs. We're both going to lose them if we don't do something so let's swap." It seems to me like keepers who hit 3 years should be released at the end of the season and before the trading window, otherwise you'll just have this silly recycling every 3 years. If you wanted to trade them you need to do it this offseason, and lose a season of eligibility or midseason and risk disrupting your team.

SI

I don't know if this will ever happen, but the possibility of it happening changes my opinion.

I think keepers should be keepers for 3 years and that it. Even if they get traded, they years they already have against them should be counted. Those years should be a factor considered when you are trading.

Am I allowed to change my vote for first rule we're voting on?

[Lathum]

I don't know if this will ever happen, but the possibility of it happening changes my opinion.

I think keepers should be keepers for 3 years and that it. Even if they get traded, they years they already have against them should be counted. Those years should be a factor considered when you are trading.

Am I allowed to change my vote for first rule we're voting on?

Kind of defeats the purpose of part of the rule which was to create more movement.

[JAG]

Quick dumb clarification about the new keeper rules since I'm not quite sure I'm getting it. So, I've got Tom Brady and Vic's Heroes has Drew Brees. We've both kept them 2 season and next season will be their third. At the end of next season, if we don't trade them midseason, are they gone off of our team? Or next offseason, do he and I just find each other since and go "Hey, you have Brees and I have Brady and they're both top 5 QBs. We're both going to lose them if we don't do something so let's swap." It seems to me like keepers who hit 3 years should be released at the end of the season and before the trading window, otherwise you'll just have this silly recycling every 3 years. If you wanted to trade them you need to do it this offseason, and lose a season of eligibility or midseason and risk disrupting your team.

SI

Wouldn't your way make the silly recycling every two years instead of three? :). (but hey, that's more trading at least)

[sterlingice]

But for my team, right now, I'd have to make a decision like "do I want to win now and go with Brady for 1 season or trade him for a different guy I get to keep for 2 more seasons". Next season there will be a bunch of "I'll trade you my top 10 pick because I get nothing for him but you get 2 seasons if you do the same". I guess ultimately no big deal either way since we are all under the same rules. I was just curious if I was reading the rule right.

SI

[PackerFanatic]

If you trade for a guy, you shouldn't inherit his years of service. Like Lathum said, the spirit of the rule is to encourage more trades. While it is possible to see a Brady-for-Brees type trade, I can't see it happening all that often (and even if it does, I am okay with it - I wouldn't expect to get many chances to draft a guy like that in a keeper league, to be honest)

[PackerFanatic]

For simplicity's sake, I would say no. I guess it would depend on how Fleaflicker's software does it also.

I would have to think they would allow it, I couldn't see any reason why not. It's probably unlikely to happen, but you never know :)

[PackerFanatic]

1. Yay
2. Yay

[samifan24]

1. yay
2. yay

[TLK]

for the couple of people who have voted no for the trade rules just curios why

I'm interested in this too. We should probably all be on the same page on this one.

[spleen1015]

If you trade for a guy, you shouldn't inherit his years of service. Like Lathum said, the spirit of the rule is to encourage more trades. While it is possible to see a Brady-for-Brees type trade, I can't see it happening all that often (and even if it does, I am okay with it - I wouldn't expect to get many chances to draft a guy like that in a keeper league, to be honest)

If that is the spirit of the rule, I guess I am okay with it. It goes back to what I said before. If the 3 year rule was put in place so that stud players would show up in the draft every once in a while, then the new rule defeats that purpose. I'm fine with it creating more movement I guess.

I see the scenario that SI presented happening a lot. In fact, I think it is a good strategy within the rules and likely something I am going to look for.

[TLK]

Once we get this trading mess finalized... Marques Colston is on the block for a 1st Round Pick.

[johnnyshaka]

for the couple of people who have voted no for the trade rules just curios why

IMO, the three year keeper rule is in place to make the draft relevant and to promote some kind of parity as nobody can have Brady/Brees/Manning for more than three years. At the end of those three years the owners of those players need to either make sure they draft a viable keeper for the following season or make a trade (during the season) for their next keeper.

These new rules essentially mean the best players will never be draftable again and for me, the draft is the best part of fantasy football and what I enjoy most.

[sterlingice]

IMO, the three year keeper rule is in place to make the draft relevant and to promote some kind of parity as nobody can have Brady/Brees/Manning for more than three years. At the end of those three years the owners of those players need to either make sure they draft a viable keeper for the following season or make a trade (during the season) for their next keeper.

These new rules essentially mean the best players will never be draftable again and for me, the draft is the best part of fantasy football and what I enjoy most.

This is why I'm currently torn on the new rules. I like trading, but I like the draft more and I fear this will pretty much gut the draft. Then again, as it is, it will take a decade to get us out of a cycle of every 3 years being the big draft you have to do well in.

SI

[Lathum]

These new rules essentially mean the best players will never be draftable again and for me, the draft is the best part of fantasy football and what I enjoy most.

If the best players can be kept indefinetly they wouldn't be available to you in the draft either way.

[johnnyshaka]

If the best players can be kept indefinetly they wouldn't be available to you in the draft either way.

Precisely why I like the 3 year keeper rule, so the best players do become available at least every 3 years.

What I don't like, and again, only my opinion, is trading rules that skirt the three year keeper rule as I find it far less interesting as my only decisions become should I trade Fitzgerald for Andre or Calvin Johnson in the offseason...kind of boring if you ask me.

[Lathum]

But the opposite would destroy trading of any kind. No one would give up draft picks because they would know guys would be available in the draft.

[spleen1015]

I would rather have an interesting draft and no trading at all than lots of trading and a shitty draft.

[JAG]

I think I would be against years of accrual counting no matter whether you trade a player. It's a keeper league, I expect certain players to be unavailable to draft, and if I really want a certain player I have to put together a trade for them. However, I wouldn't be opposed to some type of rule like no trading players with three years for another player with three years, or a trade only removes one year of keeper eligibility (so a person receiving a keeper with three years only gets to use then for a season before they would have to be traded or go back in the pool of players), or something more interesting someone could come up with.

Just a thought also, but seeing as this discussion might take some additional days and we still have a good bit of time before we need to get drafting, maybe we should bump the schedule out a few days.

[PackerFanatic]

I think I would be against years of accrual counting no matter whether you trade a player. It's a keeper league, I expect certain players to be unavailable to draft, and if I really want a certain player I have to put together a trade for them. However, I wouldn't be opposed to some type of rule like no trading players with three years for another player with three years, or a trade only removes one year of keeper eligibility (so a person receiving a keeper with three years only gets to use then for a season before they would have to be traded or go back in the pool of players), or something more interesting someone could come up with.

Just a thought also, but seeing as this discussion might take some additional days and we still have a good bit of time before we need to get drafting, maybe we should bump the schedule out a few days.

The bolded part is exactly my thoughts. As much fun as the draft is, in a keeper league, I expect guys like Chris Johnson or Adrian Peterson to rarely be available. The year they may become available, then that draft will be great (well, at least until pick 3, lol)

[sterlingice]

What I don't like, and again, only my opinion, is trading rules that skirt the three year keeper rule as I find it far less interesting as my only decisions become should I trade Fitzgerald for Andre or Calvin Johnson in the offseason...kind of boring if you ask me.

Shhh... that's my decision next year ;)

SI

[PackerFanatic]

Precisely why I like the 3 year keeper rule, so the best players do become available at least every 3 years.

What I don't like, and again, only my opinion, is trading rules that skirt the three year keeper rule as I find it far less interesting as my only decisions become should I trade Fitzgerald for Andre or Calvin Johnson in the offseason...kind of boring if you ask me.

That's only if the guy that has Andre or Calvin even wants Fitz in return. We assume that these deals are always going to happen...still takes both teams to want it. We have a rule like this in the league that I run (you can't keep the same two guys from year-to-year, so you will always need to give up at least one of your previous keepers) and we have only had one keeper-for-keeper trade (Brees for Manning).

[TLK]

Just a thought also, but seeing as this discussion might take some additional days and we still have a good bit of time before we need to get drafting, maybe we should bump the schedule out a few days.

In full agreement here... not sure how we will come to a resolution, but we will back the trade window and possibly the draft a few days.

[MikeVic]

I haven't read this thread in awhile, and I'm confused/conflicted on the trade thing too. It seems like there is discussion going on with it though, so maybe I won't vote on it right now.

For the IR rule, I vote Yay.

So for the keeper trading thing... Would it be an acceptable compromise to not be able to trade once the season is over? Then at least if Brees is doing poorly and Brady is doing well, sterling would have to decide "do I want to get Brees and ruin this year before the playoffs, or just hope I can draft a nice QB in the offseason and keep Brady?"

[MikeVic]

Is Danario Alexander eligible as a rookie keeper?

[PackerFanatic]

Yes, Mike - he was a rookie last year, so he is eligible.

[PackerFanatic]

So for the keeper trading thing... Would it be an acceptable compromise to not be able to trade once the season is over?

That is the whole rule - do we allow trading during the offseason or only once keepers have been announced.

[Lathum]

Would it be an acceptable compromise to not be able to trade once the season is over?

To me that would make no sense. If I have 2 stur receivers why shouldn't I be able to trade one of them for future picks if I'm not going to keep him?

[MikeVic]

To me that would make no sense. If I have 2 stur receivers why shouldn't I be able to trade one of them for future picks if I'm not going to keep him?

You can, during the season. I thought the rule was you can trade if you declare them your keeper? I was happy with that rule and if we're changing it, I'd vote nay on the change. Or we increase the number of keepers or something. I don't know how to explain it, but I think being able to trade outside of your keepers after the season kind of screws over the teams that sucked the previous year and should have first dibs on the good players being released back into the pool. Yeah I know they can trade their picks for that extra awesome WR you have, but like someone else said, I like the drafting process way more than trades.

[spleen1015]

You can, during the season. I thought the rule was you can trade if you declare them your keeper? I was happy with that rule and if we're changing it, I'd vote nay on the change. Or we increase the number of keepers or something. I don't know how to explain it, but I think being able to trade outside of your keepers after the season kind of screws over the teams that sucked the previous year and should have first dibs on the good players being released back into the pool. Yeah I know they can trade their picks for that extra awesome WR you have, but like someone else said, I like the drafting process way more than trades.

I think this is what drives my opinion. For whatever reason, the league I have been playing in for a long time, there's not much trading. So, I'm down on trading. I would rather have a fun draft than 5-6 trades in the league per year.

[PackerFanatic]

You can, during the season. I thought the rule was you can trade if you declare them your keeper? I was happy with that rule and if we're changing it, I'd vote nay on the change. Or we increase the number of keepers or something. I don't know how to explain it, but I think being able to trade outside of your keepers after the season kind of screws over the teams that sucked the previous year and should have first dibs on the good players being released back into the pool. Yeah I know they can trade their picks for that extra awesome WR you have, but like someone else said, I like the drafting process way more than trades.

This is where I was coming from with my arguments earlier.

[samifan24]

I think this is what drives my opinion. For whatever reason, the league I have been playing in for a long time, there's not much trading. So, I'm down on trading. I would rather have a fun draft than 5-6 trades in the league per year.

Agreed- this has been my experience in a variety of fantasy leagues, not just fantasy football leagues. The draft is my favorite time of the whole season.

[Lathum]

So I am just trying to wrap my head around this issue.

People want better players in the draft to make it more interesting, so basically they want to punish the better teams by not allowing them to keep their top players more than 3 seasons, but also not allowing them to trade those players, plus guys can't be traded once the season is over.

IT just doesn't make much sense to me.

[sterlingice]

I'll get the easy stuff out of the way:

Also, for the IR rule, I vote YAY.

And, currently, barring some wacky rule change, Houston Hippopotami keepers are pretty straight forward:
QB: Brady
RB: Jones-Drew
WR: Fitzgerald
RK: Best

SI

[sterlingice]

So I am just trying to wrap my head around this issue.

People want better players in the draft to make it more interesting, so basically they want to punish the better teams by not allowing them to keep their top players more than 3 seasons, but also not allowing them to trade those players, plus guys can't be traded once the season is over.

IT just doesn't make much sense to me.

In a perfect world, what I'd really like to see is that as soon as the clock strikes midnight after the fantasy Super Bowl (so, week 16/17/whatever), any player with 3 years is released into the draft pool. So, I have to decide either this offseason or by the mid-season trading deadline if I wanted to keep Brady or try to trade for, again, let's say Brees.

I think the positives are higher:
-Better draft pool as more 3's will get dumped in
-Best players will probably rotate ever 2-2.5 years not every 3 if they are traded
-Legitimate strategies of long term versus short term gain for your team adds depth to decisions

There are definitely downsides:
-If I'm me and Brady is tearing it up this season, why should I be penalized for that and have to decide if I want to keep him or trade for a lesser Brees because I can then keep him through the end of this season, next season, and then have to decide on him the next time just as I did with Brady this time. Then again, if I think he's going to lead me to the fantasy title, isn't that a reasonable price to pay?
-Why are you penalizing good teams? Well, that's the nature of fantasy and a draft- it is an equalizer.

SI

[johnnyshaka]

SI, that's what my long time money keeper league does...we get together for the Conference Championship games, crown the winner, and then hand in our keepers along with dues for the upcoming season.

Oh yeah, we drink lots of beer and eat way too much pizza!

Once that is done, trading is re-opened but obviously only keepers and picks are available for trade.

[PackerFanatic]

That's always what I struggle with - I think having trading right after the season is a great idea, but only if its the keepers (since I am of the mind that as soon as the NFL season ends, the fantasy season ends too). But I also like waiting as long as possible to have to announce keepers (in the league I run, the deadline is two days prior to the draft). Gotta find a compromise that works.

[TLK]

In a perfect world, what I'd really like to see is that as soon as the clock strikes midnight after the fantasy Super Bowl (so, week 16/17/whatever), any player with 3 years is released into the draft pool. So, I have to decide either this offseason or by the mid-season trading deadline if I wanted to keep Brady or try to trade for, again, let's say Brees.

SI

I think this makes sense.

[spleen1015]

In a perfect world, what I'd really like to see is that as soon as the clock strikes midnight after the fantasy Super Bowl (so, week 16/17/whatever), any player with 3 years is released into the draft pool. So, I have to decide either this offseason or by the mid-season trading deadline if I wanted to keep Brady or try to trade for, again, let's say Brees.

I think the positives are higher:
-Better draft pool as more 3's will get dumped in
-Best players will probably rotate ever 2-2.5 years not every 3 if they are traded
-Legitimate strategies of long term versus short term gain for your team adds depth to decisions

There are definitely downsides:
-If I'm me and Brady is tearing it up this season, why should I be penalized for that and have to decide if I want to keep him or trade for a lesser Brees because I can then keep him through the end of this season, next season, and then have to decide on him the next time just as I did with Brady this time. Then again, if I think he's going to lead me to the fantasy title, isn't that a reasonable price to pay?
-Why are you penalizing good teams? Well, that's the nature of fantasy and a draft- it is an equalizer.

SI

What happens with the keeper years after the player is traded midseason? Does it reset for the new owner? Does the partial year count against the new owner?

[PackerFanatic]

What happens with the keeper years after the player is traded midseason? Does it reset for the new owner? Does the partial year count against the new owner?

It would reset. If the new owner wants to keep the player at the end of the year, he can - and that would count as that players' first year of being kept.

[sterlingice]

That would be my theory

SI

[JAG]

I'm good with SI's suggestion.

[TLK]

*Off-season trade rules

-Keepers will now be announced no later than a week after the championship game.
-Only keepers are eligible to be traded
-Keepers may be traded for keepers, draft picks or keepers and picks
-Any player received in an off-season trade will have one year counted against the keeper limit.

Do we want to vote on this... or keep discussing it?

[JAG]

I think some of those are contradictory. Just a thought but breaking them into separate points for voting might be a good idea too, for example:

1. Players who have been kept three years are ineligible for trading after the in-season trading deadline. (yay/nay)
2. Only keepers are eligible for trading (yay/nay)

etc...

Also, the was I worded point 1. gets the same effect as SI's suggestion without us having to decide keepers way before the season, so we don't have to deal with a keeper getting injured in the playoffs, running into legal trouble in the offseason, and so on.

Thanks as always for trying to organize the discussion.

[PackerFanatic]

-When you say "Championship Game", is that the fantasy championship game or the Super Bowl?

-I don't understand point 3 (trades will be allowed one month before keepers are announced); if we are announcing them so early, wouldn't this just be the normal in-season trade deadline?

[Lathum]

I'm confused about some of TLKs proposal. Like PF said, one month within championship game, wouldn't that negate the trade deadline?

I am also just not a fan of the trade only keeper for keeper concept. If a guy has Kevin Kold and Michael Vick on his roster for example in the offseasoe he should be able to trade one for a draft pick to someone who wants to keep him who may need a keeper QB.

[TLK]

-When you say "Championship Game", is that the fantasy championship game or the Super Bowl?

-I don't understand point 3 (trades will be allowed one month before keepers are announced); if we are announcing them so early, wouldn't this just be the normal in-season trade deadline?

That was from the old proposal and should of been deleted. It's early here. :p

[TLK]

I am also just not a fan of the trade only keeper for keeper concept. If a guy has Kevin Kold and Michael Vick on his roster for example in the offseasoe he should be able to trade one for a draft pick to someone who wants to keep him who may need a keeper QB.

Where does the rest of the league stand on this? I think this need to be answered before trying to put together something to vote on.

Should we be allowed to move non-keepers after the season?

[PackerFanatic]

That was from the old proposal and should of been deleted. It's early here. :p

No problem :)

[JAG]

Where does the rest of the league stand on this? I think this need to be answered before trying to put together something to vote on.

Should we be allowed to move non-keepers after the season?

I'm ok either way. It would probably be more likely to help a team that had a great last season, so I would lean towards no, but if the majority want it, I'm ok with it as well.

Lathum, for someone with two great players at a position, couldn't they choose to trade the keeper and keep the non-keeper?

[PackerFanatic]

I'd prefer to not allow non-keeper moves in the offseason. Once the trade deadline hits, the only players you can move (once the season ends) are keepers.

[PackerFanatic]

And I would say make keepers due 2 weeks or so prior to the draft, and allow trading starting at that time (for keepers or picks)

[spleen1015]

I think all of this is getting too complicated for fantasy football. I'm in favor of whatever the majority decides. I don't know a lot about the history of the league as far as trading, etc goes, but I think we're spending a lot of time trying to figure out rules for something that doesn't happen very often and making it complicated as well.

When are my keepers due and when does the draft start? That's all I want to know.

[PackerFanatic]

... but I think we're spending a lot of time trying to figure out rules for something that doesn't happen very often and making it complicated as well.

That is true.

[JAG]

Well, hasn't happened much because prior to a few years ago, we didn't have restrictions on length of time people could keep players, but is more likely to happen going forward. But I do agree, for the most part I'm also at the point where I don't feel that strongly what we decide on most of the issues, other than selecting keepers 1-2 weeks before the draft and thinking that SI's suggestion of keepers who have been kept three years aren't eligible for off-season trades is a good one.

[Lathum]

Lathum, for someone with two great players at a position, couldn't they choose to trade the keeper and keep the non-keeper?

Thats not my understanding of how the rule works.

My understanding is you would have to keep one player and not be able to trade the other player.

I think the heart of the issue currently is WHEN do you lose control of the players on your roster?

Is it after the trade deadline, the end of the season, or when keepers are due. IMO up until that point, whenever that may be, you should be able to trade anyone on your roster, keeper or not.

[PackerFanatic]

I think the heart of the issue currently is WHEN do you lose control of the players on your roster?

Is it after the trade deadline, the end of the season, or when keepers are due. IMO up until that point, whenever that may be, you should be able to trade anyone on your roster, keeper or not.

I would agree with this. I think that needs to be determined first, then we can decide on any trading rules (if offseason trading rules are even necessary at that point).

IMO - you lose control of your team at the end of the season (after the Super Bowl). The last thing you do with your team before trading can commence is select your keepers. Once keepers are selected, the new league year begins and trading is back on.

[JAG]

I would agree with this. I think that needs to be determined first, then we can decide on any trading rules (if offseason trading rules are even necessary at that point).

IMO - you lose control of your team at the end of the season (after the Super Bowl). The last thing you do with your team before trading can commence is select your keepers. Once keepers are selected, the new league year begins and trading is back on.

I agree with the last thing you do with your team being to select keepers, then the rest of the team is dumped into the draft. Keeping in mind at this point I don't care terribly strongly, but in my ideal world, before we reach the point where keepers are selected, I would like to have a period of time where you are able to trade your current keepers (from last season) for other keepers or draft picks with some restrictions (players you trade for must be kept, players received in trades automatically get a year against them for being able to keep them three years, and whatever else is decided upon). After that, keepers are selected and the rest of the team is dumped in preparation for the draft.

[Lathum]

See, IMO the players you have stay on your roster until keepers are announced and you can do what you want with them. Why shouldn't I be able to trade a player I am not going to keep for a pick. IMO thaty punishes someone for making good moves with their roster the season before.

I would propose something like this.

You can trade anyone on your roster up until the trading deadline. Following the trading deadline until the end of the season no players can be dealt. Once the championship game ends, you are able to trade any players on your roster the from the year before un until keepers are due. Following keepers being named and until the draft you can only trade draft picks. Once the draft begins you can trade anyone currently on your roster (keepers or players you have drafted) or picks.

IMO what this does it allows teams who may be hurting at a certain position to get a potential keeper from a team that may be rich at one position. For example, All On Black has Calvin Johnson and Anquan Boldin and can obviously only keep one of them. Why shouldn't AOB be able to trade one of them prior to the season begining for a draft pick? To just freeze rosters following the trade deadline seems unfair to the teams that have multiple good players at the same position. To an extent it also punishes teams that may have holes they want to fill through a trade as opposed to the draft.

[spleen1015]

Fantasy League - FOFC Keeper League - Fleaflicker (http://www.fleaflicker.com/nfl/draft-board?leagueId=54908&teamId=387906)

Is what is shown in the link above correct? Why are some teams only picking 10, others 11, 12, etc?

[PackerFanatic]

Not everyone kept a rookie, for one, so they would have an extra pick. Not sure on the others.

[PackerFanatic]

See, IMO the players you have stay on your roster until keepers are announced and you can do what you want with them. Why shouldn't I be able to trade a player I am not going to keep for a pick. IMO thaty punishes someone for making good moves with their roster the season before.

I would propose something like this.

You can trade anyone on your roster up until the trading deadline. Following the trading deadline until the end of the season no players can be dealt. Once the championship game ends, you are able to trade any players on your roster the from the year before un until keepers are due. Following keepers being named and until the draft you can only trade draft picks. Once the draft begins you can trade anyone currently on your roster (keepers or players you have drafted) or picks.

IMO what this does it allows teams who may be hurting at a certain position to get a potential keeper from a team that may be rich at one position. For example, All On Black has Calvin Johnson and Anquan Boldin and can obviously only keep one of them. Why shouldn't AOB be able to trade one of them prior to the season begining for a draft pick? To just freeze rosters following the trade deadline seems unfair to the teams that have multiple good players at the same position. To an extent it also punishes teams that may have holes they want to fill through a trade as opposed to the draft.

I can get behind this. So really, the announcement of keepers is the start of the new season - meaning if a player is traded and kept at any point before that, they would obviously have one year of service with their new team when the new season starts. That seems the easiest way to handle it.

[JAG]

I'm fine with Lathum's proposal.

[Lathum]

I can get behind this. So really, the announcement of keepers is the start of the new season - meaning if a player is traded and kept at any point before that, they would obviously have one year of service with their new team when the new season starts. That seems the easiest way to handle it.

I don't want to split hairs with this, I just want to make sure everyone would be on the same page.

So if I trade C. Johnson to Team A prior to keepers being announced, and team A keeps him, that counts as one year startin in the 2011 season, C Johnson can thewn be kept for the 2012 and 2013 season. Following the 2013 season he would either need to be traded prior to keepers being announced or would become a free agent.

[PackerFanatic]

I don't want to split hairs with this, I just want to make sure everyone would be on the same page.

So if I trade C. Johnson to Team A prior to keepers being announced, and team A keeps him, that counts as one year startin in the 2011 season, C Johnson can thewn be kept for the 2012 and 2013 season. Following the 2013 season he would either need to be traded prior to keepers being announced or would become a free agent.

With all the discussion, I don't blame you :)

Yes, that is how I would view it. Even though you never used him, you kept him from one year to the next, so that would count as a year of service. Then you can keep him 2 more times, and either deal him or drop him after 2013.

[Lathum]

With all the discussion, I don't blame you :)

Yes, that is how I would view it. Even though you never used him, you kept him from one year to the next, so that would count as a year of service. Then you can keep him 2 more times, and either deal him or drop him after 2013.

right, so you would still get 3 seasons on the field out of that player.

[PackerFanatic]

Player A traded in 2010 "season" (after Championship game, prior to announcement of keepers for 2011 season) to Team B. Team B keeps player A (kept once), plays him in the 2011 season

Team B keeps player A after 2011 season (kept twice), plays him in the 2012 season

Team B keeps Player A after 2012 season (kept three times), plays him in the 2013 season

Makes sense to me :)

[Lathum]

exactly

[TLK]

Fantasy League - FOFC Keeper League - Fleaflicker (http://www.fleaflicker.com/nfl/draft-board?leagueId=54908&teamId=387906)

Is what is shown in the link above correct? Why are some teams only picking 10, others 11, 12, etc?

Nope. It'll change after the keepers are processed. I'm not sure why it is the way it is... but teams will have 10 picks if they have a rookie keeper and 11 if they don't keep a rookie. Vic's Heroes owns Shaka's third round pick.

Also remember, you can never have more than 14 players on the roster. If you say... traded Tom Brady for a 1st, 3rd and 5th... you would lose your last two picks.

[sterlingice]

Ah, I see the issue with how I presented it because, well, duh, you'd never keep that player the third year as you'd just lose him. I think I had my years off. I guess I'd want a smidge more clarity

In my mind, if a player has been kept 2 previous years, they are dropped at season's end. You can't trade them or do anything with them because they would end up being 3 years.

So, for instance, I have Brady, Fitz, and Jones-Drew as keepers and I have named them keepers for 2 years in a row now so this will by my third season with them. If I don't trade them before the trading deadline this season, I lose them in January once the fantasy season is over. I can't trade them or anything- they're just off my roster and automatically dumped into the pool. Then next August, I'm naming keepers from the other players still left on my roster or I make some trades or whatever.

If you say "sure, you can trade them until you can name keepers" - don't we just go back to me swapping Brady for Brees next August. I name Brees my new keeper and I have him for 3 seasons? I'd get to keep them both for 3 full seasons with no penalty and no consideration of past versus future?

Let's say I've only kept Fitzgerald for one season while I've had Jones-Drew and Brady for 2 each. I would have him next offseason either to keep or to deal. I could keep him and then either trade him mid-season 2012 or lose him at the end of the season. If I traded him next offseason, the team that kept him would burn his first year as they would have kept him over the 2012 offseason (i.e he played for me in 2011 but you actually kept him so you'd only get to keep him for 2012 and 2013 and then he'd go into the pool in the 2013 offseason).

SI

[sterlingice]

Lastly, for clarity- does a rookie keeper year count as a keeper year or is it it's own special designation (rookie keeper year)?

I kept Best last year. If he becomes super awesome and I keep him as my standard RB keeper next year, is that year 1 or year 2?

SI

[JAG]

Lastly, for clarity- does a rookie keeper year count as a keeper year or is it it's own special designation (rookie keeper year)?

I kept Best last year. If he becomes super awesome and I keep him as my standard RB keeper next year, is that year 1 or year 2?

SI

I believe we've said a rookie keeper year counts as a regular keeper year of service, so in your example above it would be his 2nd year.

How about Lathum's proposal with SI's tweak for 3rd year keepers? I think it's a good combo myself.

[PackerFanatic]

The one thing that needs to be clarified though - the keeper rules state that no player can be kept more than 3 years, which how I have been reading it, means you can keep them 3 times - which technically means you get to use a player 4 years (the year you drafted him and the three years you keep him).

That said, I don't mind SI's addition of making a full-term keeper (meaning one who has been kept for 3 years) "untradeable" after the trading deadline. If you really want to trade them, it has to be during the season or anytime prior to their last year on your team. We just need to clarify the length of time as I stated above.

[PackerFanatic]

And yeah, a rookie keeper counts like any normal keeper - so you keeping Best means you can still keep him two more times (like anyone else who you might have kept for the first time this year).

[TLK]

If we're ready to run with it....can someone write the proposal up and start voting on it? I'm out all weekend and will only have phone access. I'd like to have this taken care of by midweek. Keepers due by the weekend and start the draft the following weekend.

[PackerFanatic]

Let's see if I got this right...


Off-Season Trade Rules
-Trades involving your current roster will be allowed as soon as the Championship game has been completed and until keepers are announced for the next season. The keeper announcement signifies the start of a new season.
-Players may be traded for players, draft picks, or players and picks.
-Any player received in a trade automatically becomes a keeper at their position for their new team.
-When becoming one of the teams keepers, the player will have one year of service counted against the limit.
-If a player is "unkeepable" (meaning he has already been kept 3 times by the same team), he is not allowed to be traded in the offseason.

[JAG]

Looks fine.

Vote: Yay

[Lathum]

2 things- I think we need to have a "catastophe" clause on the off chance I trade for a player and he retires suddenly or suffers a career threatening injury. You shouldn't be forced to keep that guy because you traded for him months earlier

Also, I didn't mention an unkeepable player not being allowed to be traded, but if this is to prevent the Brees for Brady swaps I can agree to it.

[JAG]

I would think most teams would make any trades they plan to do close to the deadline for selecting keepers (and if not, you can argue that's a risk they chose to take), so not sure that's really necessary.

[PackerFanatic]

The unkeepable part was gleaned from SI's recent post (I think I got the gist of it at least).

As far as the catastrophe clause, I can get behind that...although like JAG said, if you're making a trade that early in the offseason, maybe that's a risk you take.

[sterlingice]

Sorry- not trying to make it more confusing. Honest. I just don't always do the best job of explaining what I'm trying to say :)

SI

[TLK]

Yay vote plus a bump.

[sterlingice]

Yay vote for me

SI

[PackerFanatic]

Yay for me as well, of course :)

[Lathum]

yay

[spleen1015]

Yay

now let's get to the fun stuff. :)

[TLK]

By my count... we need one more yay.

[johnnyshaka]

Nay

[PackerFanatic]

Nay

Any particular reason?

EDIT - nevermind, I see your posts from the past few days and that explains why :)

[samifan24]

Yay

[TLK]

Yay

This passes it. Trading is open with these rules until Friday at Noon EST. All keepers are also due by Friday at Noon EST. The draft will begin next Wednesday.


Off-Season Trade Rules
-Trades involving your current roster will be allowed as soon as the Championship game has been completed and until keepers are announced for the next season. The keeper announcement signifies the start of a new season.
-Players may be traded for players, draft picks, or players and picks.
-Any player received in a trade automatically becomes a keeper at their position for their new team.
-When becoming one of the teams keepers, the player will have one year of service counted against the limit.
-If a player is "unkeepable" (meaning he has already been kept 3 times by the same team), he is not allowed to be traded in the offseason.

[spleen1015]

Touchdown Mafia keepers

QB - Matt Ryan
RB - LeSean McCoy
WR - Brandon Lloyd

[spleen1015]

Mendenhall is on the block if anyone wants him. I'll take a draft pick or an upgrade at WR or a combination of both.

[TLK]

Bolden, Colston and Mike Wallace are you for grabs if anyone needs a WR keeper.

[johnnyshaka]

Kolb, Moreno, Bradshaw, Marshall, and Harvin are available for picks.

[saldana]

peyton, c johnson, wayne, colt mccoy

sorry for flaking out, i was on vacation since last thursday and never made it to the site even though lathum told me to check in.

[MikeVic]

Keepers:
QB: Brees
RB: S. Jackson
WR: Austin
Rookie: Danario Alexander

Since Brees and Jackson are on their last year with me, they're both available.

[Lathum]

Me and EF27 have a deal

He gets BigBen and my second round pick this year. I get his first round pick this year

[Eaglesfan27]

Keepers:

QB Big Ben
RB: Cedric Benson
WR: Jeremy Maclin
Rookie: Jordan Shipley

[Lathum]

Lathums Keepers

QB- Cutler
RB-Charles
WR-Nicks
R- Blount

[JAG]

Last call for Adrian Peterson if you want him before I stick a bow on him and gift-wrap him for johnnyshaka.

[TLK]

QB- Schuab
RB- Foster
WR- C. Johnson
Rook- Bradford

[PackerFanatic]

Rodgers is a first-year keeper for me, as I traded for him at the beginning of last season.

[TLK]

Rodgers is a first-year keeper for me, as I traded for him at the beginning of last season.

fixed.

[PackerFanatic]

fixed.

Couldn't even spell his name right that time? ;)

Danke.

[TLK]

Couldn't even spell his name right that time? ;)

Danke.

I have no idea what happened there. I just deleted the (2)... heh... oh well.

[PackerFanatic]

I have no idea what happened there. I just deleted the (2)... heh... oh well.

It was wrong before, I just now brought it up, haha. No worries - thanks!

[JAG]

Last call for Adrian Peterson if you want him before I stick a bow on him and gift-wrap him for johnnyshaka.

Barring any last-minute trades:

Keepers:
QB Josh Freeman
RB Ray Rice
WR Andre Johnson
Rookie: WR Dez Bryant

[cubboyroy1826]

Okay here are my keepers finally:

QB: Eli Manning
RB: Peyton Hillis
WR: Desean Jackson
Rookie: nada

[TLK]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v230/TheLionKing/keeper-3.png

[spleen1015]

VOTE DRAFTFALL

:D

[PackerFanatic]

VOTE DRAFTFALL

:D

+1

[spleen1015]

Are we allowed to trade draft picks for draft picks, no players involved?

[JAG]

Believe so, yep.

[PackerFanatic]

Yup, you don't have to have players involved.

[Lathum]

Is there a reason why we are waiting 5 days to start the draft?

[TLK]

Is there a reason why we are waiting 5 days to start the draft?

What's the rush?

[Lathum]

What's the rush?

the draft is fun. Not opposed to it, just asking

[TLK]

I started the draft on the site. No time limits or anything right now.

[TLK]

The talent drop from 1.5 to 1.6 is pretty amazing.

[Lathum]

I may be looking to move up some spots if anyone is interested.

[spleen1015]

PackerFanatic is on the clock!

[PackerFanatic]

Up to MikeVic!

[MikeVic]

Lathum is up!

[Lathum]

Wow, stoked Mike Vic didn't take Wallace. I was hoping to get wither Wallace or Jennings, or both.

I was actually PMing with Packerfanatic saying I bet MV takes Wallace

[Lathum]

Saldana is up!

[MikeVic]

I try to avoid Steelers players if I can, but Wallace was very tempting. It was between Wallace and Forte for sure, glad I could make you happy. :D

[Lathum]

I try to avoid Steelers players if I can, but Wallace was very tempting. It was between Wallace and Forte for sure, glad I could make you happy. :D

Indeed. I am really excited about Wallace and Jackson. I am excited about my WR corps.

I called Saldana, he should pick pretty soon.

[PackerFanatic]

I try to avoid Steelers players if I can, but Wallace was very tempting. It was between Wallace and Forte for sure, glad I could make you happy. :D

Pretty much why I avoided Forte - although even my non-bias side (no matter how small it is) told me that Jennings would be a better get than Forte.

[johnnyshaka]

MikeVic, you certainly got top value for my 3rd rounder...3.1...pfffft!

[MikeVic]

MikeVic, you certainly got top value for my 3rd rounder...3.1...pfffft!

I forgot about that!

[sterlingice]

Yay. I thought I'd be the one holding up the draft since I was out of town all weekend so no prep time and a surprise audit at work today. Time to get caught up (and then set up my league, hopefully)

SI

[sterlingice]

Bump

SI

[Lathum]

Looks like we are moving again. Insomniacs up

[Lathum]

does the official timekeeping start tomorrow?

[cubboyroy1826]

Sorry for the delay guys I somehow missed the email.

[sterlingice]

I had 3 guys in mind for my 1st round pick and picked one. The other two both made it back around to me- that's either fortuitous or ominous.

That said, I just got that injury shiver down my spine with Colston- the same one I got every time I drafted Fred Taylor (d'oh)

SI

[johnnyshaka]

I'm going to be at a funeral tomorrow so I likely won't be online until after supper time. I'll apologize right now if things bog down at my pick.

[JAG]

I had 3 guys in mind for my 1st round pick and picked one. The other two both made it back around to me- that's either fortuitous or ominous.

That said, I just got that injury shiver down my spine with Colston- the same one I got every time I drafted Fred Taylor (d'oh)

SI

I gave him some consideration, but I was just too concerned about his injuries to pick him.

[Lathum]

yeah, I seriously considered Colston also. Had Wallace been gone I likely would have taken him. Went with V Jackson instead, I think he has a lot to play for this season

[Lathum]

EF27 finally gets to make his picks!

[spleen1015]

I'm not liking the way this is shaping up. I don't have any confidence in my WR keeper and there's not much left.

I'm gonna need a little luck.

[spleen1015]

Dola,

When looking at rosters, does the FOFC All Stars look like they are missing a WR slot to anyone else?

[Lathum]

yes, it does

[JAG]

I think it's something to do with how you assign the slots. I had the same problem until I benched / started people in the single vs double slots (WR instrad of RB/WR).

[samifan24]

Dola,

When looking at rosters, does the FOFC All Stars look like they are missing a WR slot to anyone else?

Yeah, I wondered about that, too. As I was making my picks it said that I still needed a WR and I looked at my slots and wondered how that was possible.

[MikeVic]

Is there a way to see how many times you've had a certain player on your roster? I feel like I've had Wes Welker during two other seasons before picking him again this year. I also think I've ended up with Lee Evans 14 times so expect him to come to me somehow.

[JAG]

I don't think so, but it's funny you say that as I was thinking to myself 'Didn't he take Weller last year too?'

[MikeVic]

Sonofashaka... Julio was supposed to be my next pick!

[johnnyshaka]

Sonofashaka... Julio was supposed to be my next pick!

And 3.1 was supposed to be my next pick!!! :)

Am I the only one who thinks of Will Ferrell in "Night at the Roxbury" saying "Emileo!" but instead it's Julio?

[PackerFanatic]

And 3.1 was supposed to be my next pick!!! :)

Am I the only one who thinks of Will Ferrell in "Night at the Roxbury" saying "Emileo!" but instead it's Julio?

Yes! I throw out that line way too often :)