NFL Week 6 thread

[MrBug708]

At least the Raiders have a lot of picks

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

Insane. It's like Al never left.

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

The conditional pick is a conditional 1st rounder in 2013, per Mort.

[JPhillips]

Fuck me. I can't believe MB is going to come out as the winner of this.

[Bearcat729]

Fuck me. I can't believe MB is going to come out as the winner of this.

Well seeing how well the Bengals are picking in the first round is it really something that can be called a win?

[Doug5984]

Well seeing how well the Bengals are picking in the first round is it really something that can be called a win?

:lol:

[Danny]

I have mixed emotions on this. That's an awful lot to give up, but the Raiders are a very talented team and would be wasting it with Kyle Boller at QB. With Palmer, they should definitely be a playoff team and are still very young. Of course it means their 2012 draft is basically nothing as they will have very few picks. I hope the conditional is not another first though, that would be too much for sure. I don't necessarily believe Mort on that.

[JPhillips]

Well seeing how well the Bengals are picking in the first round is it really something that can be called a win?

They've been good in round 1 since ML has been there. The problem has been rounds 2-4.

Palmer
Perry
Pollack
Joseph
Hall
Rivers
Smith
Gresham
Green

They haven't gotten stars, but that's a lot of good talent.

[JAG]

Whether a good move for Oakland or not (and I suspect in a few years we'll be laughing about it), a great move for the Bengals to add more talent to what surprising looks like an up-and-coming team.

[Antmeister]

I have mixed emotions on this. That's an awful lot to give up, but the Raiders are a very talented team and would be wasting it with Kyle Boller at QB. With Palmer, they should definitely be a playoff team and are still very young. Of course it means their 2012 draft is basically nothing as they will have very few picks. I hope the conditional is not another first though, that would be too much for sure. I don't necessarily believe Mort on that.

Ugh....I don't like this trade at all. The Chargers don't need the Raiders to improve. Hopefully he will struggle since he hasn't played for a while. Dammit.

[Logan]

I have mixed emotions on this. That's an awful lot to give up, but the Raiders are a very talented team and would be wasting it with Kyle Boller at QB. With Palmer, they should definitely be a playoff team and are still very young. Of course it means their 2012 draft is basically nothing as they will have very few picks. I hope the conditional is not another first though, that would be too much for sure. I don't necessarily believe Mort on that.

Not trying to be a dick here but did you watch a lot of Palmer last year? Guy's arm appears shot...unless he was hurt or just mailing it in. His numbers weren't great and I think those were even better than they should have been. His Adjusted INTs were second worst in the league.

[bhlloy]

Yeah, color me stunned that people actually think this is a good move. Palmer has very little left and he's walking into a new offense with no time to get it down. And potentially for 2 first rounders, wow. Just when the Raiders were starting to put it together. As a Chargers fan this makes me absolutely ecstatic.

[Draft Dodger]

it's as if Al Davis is still running the team

[stevew]

Oakland has a realistic shot at playoff births for the next 3 seasons. They were unable to find a QB that would enable this to happen, other than Carson If they stood pat, they would have no chance this season. Palmer gives them a chance, plus allows for long term development of Terrell Pryor.

The aggregate of all these moves is Carson Palmer, Aaron Curry and Pryor for 2 1s, a 3rd and like a 5th. Curry was a "can't miss" who missed. There's possible redemption opportunities. Pryor might be something within 3 years. Palmer stabilizes a franchise for 3 years, and allows you to win while you have the pieces in place.

I'm certainly taking leaps and bounds here with "raider logic" but this certainly makes a lot more sense than anyone wants to give them credit.

[bhlloy]

If this is 2006 I agree with you. There is no way in flaming hell Carson Palmer of today is worth 2 first round picks. All indications point to him being a worse QB last year than Jason Campbell and that's arguably on a team with more weapons.

Not like this is a career ender for Campbell, he could be back before the end of the year and then you gave up 2 first rounders for a guy who is probably not better than him. Madness.

[Logan]

I think Palmer is, at best, marginally better than Jason Campbell. If you're talking about which could lead you into and through the playoffs, give me Campbell and let me keep my picks. Those can be leveraged into a lot in what could be a great 2012 draft.

[Danny]

Hopefully the conditional is predicated on them winning the super bowl or something similar.

People were posting similar thoughts when the Raiders made the deal for Seymour and that turned out to be a great trade for the Raiders. We'll see, hopefully Palmer is not done.

[Butter]

Fuck me. I can't believe MB is going to come out as the winner of this.

Yeah. Congratulations, I guess. Will be enjoyable to see Palmer throw his nonsensical picks in another uni.

[Danny]

I think Palmer is, at best, marginally better than Jason Campbell. If you're talking about which could lead you into and through the playoffs, give me Campbell and let me keep my picks. Those can be leveraged into a lot in what could be a great 2012 draft.

That wasn't an option, Campbell is done for the year.

[stevew]

Palmer is also signed thru 2014. My perception of the raiders is that their front office is much more comfortable with offering large seasonal salary guarantees, vs handing out enormous signing bonuses. In many ways they are the opposite of an organization like Washington. Instead of having to renegotiate Campbell after this year, they were comfortable with the price that Carson costs.

This is my perception of their financial strategy, and not an endorsement thereof

[Rizon]

Um, it's Tuesday.

Shit, I missed Mackerel Mondays at the fish-n-chips down the street from my house :banghead:

[fantom1979]

That wasn't an option, Campbell is done for the year.

Last report I saw said that Campbell could be back in six weeks.

Jason Campbell says he'll have surgery, could return in six weeks - latimes.com (http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/sports_blog/2011/10/quarterback-jason-campbell-broken-collarbone-oakland.html)

[JAG]

Yeah, color me stunned that people actually think this is a good move. Palmer has very little left and he's walking into a new offense with no time to get it down. And potentially for 2 first rounders, wow. Just when the Raiders were starting to put it together. As a Chargers fan this makes me absolutely ecstatic.

I doubt it's really a new offense since the HC was Palmer's former OC. You can argue he has never thrown to these players though at least they have a bye week to get up to speed.

[BillJasper]

And again, I wake up on a Monday morning after another Suckfins loss and Ireland and Sparano still have jobs.

I wonder what these guys have to do to get fired. Course, with an owner like Ross you never know.

I don't think the issue is Sparano, so much as it is Ireland. We've got a couple good players but outside of that the cupboard is bare. But Sparano will have to go as well to change the "culture" in Miami. Ireland has had four years to find the "QB of the Future" and is no closer now than the day he took the GM job.

Though if I'm Sparano, I would have already fired the receivers coach. The Dolphins wideouts run some of the laziest routes I've ever seen. You can get away with that between the 20's where you can run away from lesser athletes, but down in the red zone technique matters. You'll never get open if you telegraph exactly where you are running.

[Danny]

I'm sure the Raiders know reports better. Plus, from my memory, I don't think I've ever seen someone come back from that injury is 6 weeks.

[Danny]

To be clear though, there is no question the Raiders gave up too much. I'm trying to be optimistic and will hope Palmer can play well for them and make it not be too bad of a trade.

[BillJasper]

To be clear though, there is no question the Raiders gave up too much. I'm trying to be optimistic and will hope Palmer can play well for them and make it not be too bad of a trade.

I think it's a gamble. But is it any bigger gamble than two mid to high first round picks would be? Money-wise, I think it's a wash.

So the Raiders think they'll benefit more by spending those two picks now. :popcorn:

[Galaxy]

I thought just giving up up one second-round pick was the max one could get for Palmer. Color me stunned. Not to mention the Raiders spent a third-round pick to get Pryor.

[Logan]

I'm sure the Raiders know reports better. Plus, from my memory, I don't think I've ever seen someone come back from that injury is 6 weeks.

I don't know if this makes it a "better" or worse injury, but typically broken collarbones aren't treated with surgery according to my doctor roommate.

[BillJasper]

I thought just giving up up one second-round pick was the max one could get for Palmer. Color me stunned. Not to mention the Raiders spent a third-round pick to get Pryor.

At this point the raiders have to be entertaining the notion of Pryor being a WR/TE and 'Wildcat' QB. The future at QB is now Palmer.

[JAG]

I think it's a gamble. But is it any bigger gamble than two mid to high first round picks would be? Money-wise, I think it's a wash.

So the Raiders think they'll benefit more by spending those two picks now. :popcorn:

Except with the rookie wage scale now in place, there's not nearly as much financial risk for high first round picks anymore.

[Danny]

This will not be a high pick. Raiders have a very talented team right now and even if Palmer is average they will likely win 9-10 games minimum.

[Ksyrup]

I told one of the big Bengals fans here in the office about this and he started dancing. Literally dancing, in his office. He's been saying for months he thought the Bengals could possibly get a 3rd and 5th for him. They get a 1st and no worse than a 2nd, at a time when 1st round draft picks barely cost anything.

[JeeberD]

I don't know if this makes it a "better" or worse injury, but typically broken collarbones aren't treated with surgery according to my doctor roommate.

Romo missed, what, 12 weeks with a broken collarbone last year? I suppose it's possible that it's a less severe break, somehow...

[BillJasper]

I told one of the big Bengals fans here in the office about this and he started dancing. Literally dancing, in his office. He's been saying for months he thought the Begals could possibly get a 3rd and 5th for him. They get a 1st and no worse than a 2nd, at a time when 1st round draft picks barely cost anything.

My daughter is really excited. She's a Bengals fan and a Palmer fan. Said she's going to look for a Palmer Raiders jersey tonight on NFL.com.

[Ksyrup]

My 6-year old daughter broke her collarbone last year and was out of playing sports for 2 months. And we're talking soccer and softball, not any kind of contact sport. Plus, I assume kids injuries heal a bit quicker.

[stevew]

At this point the raiders have to be entertaining the notion of Pryor being a WR/TE and 'Wildcat' QB. The future at QB is now Palmer.


There's no way that the Pryor situation even is remotely related to him needing to be made into a TE. He's 22 years old, he needs seasoning and maturity. This trade gives him time to develop as a QB under his first cheap rookie contract, rather than throwing him into the fire and potentially costing the Raiders a playoff birth.

[JAG]

Romo missed, what, 12 weeks with a broken collarbone last year? I suppose it's possible that it's a less severe break, somehow...

Last year they said it was a 6-8 week injury as well.

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

This will not be a high pick.

I know this isn't what you mean, but honestly these are *2* high picks. With the slotting system coming Palmer would have to perform to his previous peak for this deal to be close to being fair in my opinion.

[BillJasper]

There's no way that the Pryor situation even is remotely related to him needing to be made into a TE. He's 22 years old, he needs seasoning and maturity. This trade gives him time to develop as a QB under his first cheap rookie contract, rather than throwing him into the fire and potentially costing the Raiders a playoff birth.

I think it the price that the Raiders are paying for Pryor, Curry, Seymour and Palmer in the way of draft choices may mean that Pryor will need to switch positions. Especially if he wants to see the field in the next three years.

If not, then the Raiders paid a third round pick to have their scout team QB for the next three years.

[Jughead Spock]

I initially thought it sounded high, but if it's the difference between the playoffs and not, it's worth it. Look at the AFC right now. It can be had. Steep price, but not outlandish.

[Eaglesfan27]

I am a huge Carson fan, but I am with by bhlloy. Carson doesn't look anything like he did early in his career and he is in no position to get the Raiders to the playoffs. I am shocked the Raiders gave up so much for him.

[molson]

I don't have a problem with trading mid-to-late 1st round picks to help your team now but I don't understand why teams carry backup QBs they don't want to put in games. Same with the Colts. I don't think it's so impossible to find to have a guy, in your system, that's going to be better for you then some guy off the scrap heap, or a rusty holdout. When Bledsoe went down, Brady was the guy, the Pats weren't going to scramble in desperation to land Shawn King or somebody. When Brady went down, they weren't afraid to go with Matt Cassell. If Brady goes down this week, I think the Pats would prefer either Hoyer or Mallett to Kerry Collins or Carson Palmer. If the Raiders don't trust Kyle Boller to actually play - why is he employed there?

[Danny]

I don't have a problem with trading mid-to-late 1st round picks to help your team now but I don't understand why teams carry backup QBs they don't want to put in games. Same with the Colts. I don't think it's so impossible to find to have a guy, in your system, that's going to be better for you then some guy off the scrap heap, or a rusty holdout. When Bledsoe went down, Brady was the guy, the Pats weren't going to scramble in desperation to land Shawn King or somebody. When Brady went down, they weren't afraid to go with Matt Cassell. If Brady goes down this week, I think the Pats would prefer either Hoyer or Mallett to Kerry Collins or Carson Palmer. If the Raiders don't trust Kyle Boller to actually play - why is he employed there?

I think you are over estimating the number of capable QB's in the league. I'd say 75% of teams (at least) will be screwed if they have to go with their backup QB.

[BillJasper]

I don't have a problem with trading mid-to-late 1st round picks to help your team now but I don't understand why teams carry backup QBs they don't want to put in games. Same with the Colts. I don't think it's so impossible to find to have a guy, in your system, that's going to be better for you then some guy off the scrap heap, or a rusty holdout. When Bledsoe went down, Brady was the guy, the Pats weren't going to scramble in desperation to land Shawn King or somebody. When Brady went down, they weren't afraid to go with Matt Cassell. If Brady goes down this week, I think the Pats would prefer either Hoyer or Mallett to Kerry Collins or Carson Palmer. If the Raiders don't trust Kyle Boller to actually play - why is he employed there?

I think part of this deal is simply a knee-jerk reaction to the death of Al Davis and trying to make the season special in his honor. That and it seems like Hue Jackson is making the personnel decisions and trying to solidify his position long-term. An 11 or 12 win season would make it harder for a new GM to fire him.

**Don't forget the Rams riding with Kurt Warner when Trent Green went down. :)

[molson]

**Don't forget the Rams riding with Kurt Warner when Trent Green went down. :)

Very good example. Warner was on the team because they liked him. They didn't panic and go after Mike Tomczak.

[molson]

I think you are over estimating the number of capable QB's in the league. I'd say 75% of teams (at least) will be screwed if they have to go with their backup QB.

I don't think it's impossible to find a guy, who after 3 years in your system, will do better than a Carson Palmer or Kerry Collins would do 3 days after you sign him. Carson Palmer and Kerry Collins may or may not be top 40 NFL QBs at this point - neither probably would be at least for a few weeks or months after joining a team. A trusted system backup, either a younger guy or a Frank Reich type is going to be a better option almost every time, IMO, and they don't necessarily even need top 40 NFL QB talent to succeed with you short term if they know the system and you've specifically chosen them to succeed in your system.

Edit: Bryan Hoyer was undrafted and I have no doubt the Pats would use him if Brady went down instead of a Kerry Collins, or instead of trading 2 1st round picks for Carson Palmer. And he'd probably play better than either of them, even though he's not a great talent.

[BillJasper]

Very good example. Warner was on the team because they liked him. They didn't panic and go after Mike Tomczak.

Then again, Mike Tomczak and Carson Palmer aren't in the same ballpark. With the Raiders, Palmer will have a serious "home-run" hitter in the backfield in Darren McFadden for the first time in his career. I'm interested in seeing if that doesn't restore a bit of his confidence as a passer?

[molson]

Then again, Mike Tomczak and Carson Palmer aren't in the same ballpark. With the Raiders, Palmer will have a serious "home-run" hitter in the backfield in Darren McFadden for the first time in his career. I'm interested in seeing if that doesn't restore a bit of his confidence as a passer?

Maybe - there's probably a better example than Mike Tomczak (it's fun to try to think of fringe QBs from 1999 and he's the first one who came to mind)...but Palmer looks shot, and that was before he took the preseason and 6 weeks off. I'm not sold that he's better than Kyle Boller at this point, or that it would have been just impossible for the Raiders to find a backup that they liked enough to not burn 2 1sts here.

[BillJasper]

Maybe - there's probably a better example than Mike Tomczak (it's fun to try to think of fringe QBs from 1999 and he's the first one who came to mind)...but Palmer looks shot, and that was before he took the preseason and 6 weeks off. I'm not sold that he's better than Kyle Boller at this point, or that it would have been just impossible for the Raiders to find a backup that they liked enough to not burn 2 1sts here.

I live here in Cincinnati and I don't think Palmer is shot. I think he simply burnt out on getting teed off on with the incredible amount of 2nd and 3rd and longs that the Bratkowski offensive system put him in.

Would I give up two first rounders for him? I don't know. But I think people saying he's done aren't looking at the situation he has been in the past few years here.

[jbergey22]

Good for Carson Palmer. Didnt want to have to see him retire because MB is an idiot.

I think Carson and McFadden are going to be great for each other. Raiders might just be a playoff team.

[jbergey22]

Then again, Mike Tomczak and Carson Palmer aren't in the same ballpark. With the Raiders, Palmer will have a serious "home-run" hitter in the backfield in Darren McFadden for the first time in his career. I'm interested in seeing if that doesn't restore a bit of his confidence as a passer?

It should help him a lot. Carson doesnt have the arm to carry a team anymore but he is certainly smart enough to audible when there is 8 in the box and beat man coverage which the Raiders will see a lot of because of Mcfadden.

Al probably would have hated this move. Carson doesnt have the arm to play "Al-ball"

[Pumpy Tudors]

cant believe they didnt call jamarcus to come back and thow the ball out the stadium woo that guy has an arm

[JediKooter]

All I know is, Carson Palmer has always given the Chargers a hard time. I don't see this going well for San Diego.

[Rizon]

Delhomme was still available on the cheap.

[Passacaglia]

Maybe Jeff George instead of Tomczak would have been a good comparison around that time.

[Ksyrup]

Ponder is the starter in Minny.

[Ksyrup]

RT <S>@</S>AdamSchein (http://twitter.com/#!/AdamSchein): there it is - <S>@</S>michaelombardi (http://twitter.com/#!/michaelombardi) doesn't think al davis would have made this deal. and mike would know.

[M GO BLUE!!!]

Got to feel bad for Campbell... He comes in & solidifies the QB position, turning them into a potential playoff team. One broken collarbone later and the team is throwing two first round pics away for an older QB to replace him, and not just for now either.

[Danny]

Campbell is an average at best QB. His best trait was managing the game. He is not the reason they are 4-2.

[Danny]

But yes, I would have preferred he still been healthy and there wouldnt have been the need to trade away a 1st rounder +1st or 2nd.

[bulletsponge]

Ponder is the starter in Minny.

woohoo! got rid of mcnabb. now we can either see if Ponder is the future or we can properly suck for luck

[Marmel]

I hope a team truly tanks the season and gets the #1 overall pick and Luck hates that team so much that he stays in school for one more year. :)

[Ksyrup]

I hope a team truly tanks the season and gets the #1 overall pick and Luck hates that team so much that he stays in school for one more year. :)

In all seriousness, I keep hearing this suggested (mostly in relation to the idea that he wouldn't go back up Peyton for 5 years), and it's just not realistic. These guys have to make their decisions by mid-January, right? So even if he knows who will have the top pick, there's a good 3 months worth of negotiating to force or guide a trade elsewhere, if the team with the #1 pick is truly one he doesn't want to play for. And he won't know any of that until well past his deadline to declare for the draft. That's not much leverage at all. His leverage will be to pull an Eli or Elway.

He'll be in the pros next year one way or the other, unless he decides to come back for reasons that have nothing to do with who has the #1 pick. And if he does that, then I'd start comparing him to Leinhart rather than Elway.

[Ksyrup]

woohoo! got rid of mcnabb. now we can either see if Ponder is the future or we can properly suck for luck

Here's another unlikely scenario - do you take another QB #1 the year after taking a QB at #12?

[Matthean]

In all seriousness, I keep hearing this suggested (mostly in relation to the idea that he wouldn't go back up Peyton for 5 years)

Peyton won't play until he's 40. I think he's got 2-3 years max once he's back. He can't stay healthy, and the Colts can't protect him.

[JAG]

Here's another unlikely scenario - do you take another QB #1 the year after taking a QB at #12?

I absolutely would. Either trade Ponder right away if you could get anything decent for him (unlikely, since he probably sucked if the Vikings lose enough to get the first overall pick) or let him marinate for a few years, trot him out in preseason games, and see if you can pull off a Schaub-like trade in a few years. The Vikings are going to need 3+ years to fully rebuild anyway as they've made a number of personnel errors the past few years and don't have a lot of young up-and-coming talent on the roster.

[Ksyrup]

How many teams have picked QBs back-to-back in the top 15 of the draft?

[stevew]

Cowboys picked 1.1 two consecutive years(including supplemental).

[Rizon]

How many teams have picked QBs back-to-back in the top 15 of the draft?

I see FOF teams do it all the time.

[Honolulu_Blue]

The Lions traded Jerome Harrison and a 7th round pick to the Eagles for Ronnie Brown.

[Ksyrup]

Is this for general depth and upgrade, or does this signal a more serious issue with Best?

[Honolulu_Blue]

Is this for general depth and upgrade, or does this signal a more serious issue with Best?

I think it's former and not the latter. I hope. Harrison wasn't being used at all. Perhaps Detroit thought Brown would be a better fit because he can catch out of the backfield and perhaps the Eagles thought Harrison, who played there last year, was a better fit for their system.

I would be surpirsed if Brown was considered above Morris on the depth chart.

Anyway you put it, the RB situation isn't great. Took a huge hit when LeShoure got hurt.

[Rizon]

Is this for general depth and upgrade, or does this signal a more serious issue with Best?

I think with Best's past concussion history and teams being made to take concussions more seriously ... a backup plan.

[mckerney]

Here's another unlikely scenario - do you take another QB #1 the year after taking a QB at #12?

Yes, absolutely. Ponder was a panic pick because the front office was committed to getting a young QB right now instead of getting the right one. Hopefully the whole front office gets cleaned out this offseason, in part because they need someone who won't have a problem drafting someone like Luck, Jones, Barkley or Griffin because Ponder is there (and also because the current front office has been absolutely terrible). The Vikings will be set back far more by sticking with a mediocre Ponder longer than they should than taking QBs early in the draft two years in a row.

[Ksyrup]

I'll trade you Tebow for Ponder.

[mckerney]

The Vikings are going to need 3+ years to fully rebuild anyway as they've made a number of personnel errors the past few years and don't have a lot of young up-and-coming talent on the roster.

Yeah, other than Peterson and Harvin there really isn't any other young talent on the team, the last few draft classes have been abysmal. Then there's the fact that they were somehow in bad shape under the cap and gave a horrible contract to Chad Greenway and it's a several year rebuilding job.

[jbergey22]

Here's another unlikely scenario - do you take another QB #1 the year after taking a QB at #12?

yes. Luck is a guy that wins you Super Bowls. Ponder is a guy that can win you a few games and hopefully one day get you to the playoffs.

Ponder has a skillset similar to Henne, Luck has a skillset similar to Aaron Rodgers. Not saying he will be as good as Rodgers there is a lot more to it than just being talented. Im just saying I like the Stanford guys chances of being a very successful NFL QB with the skillset he has.

[bulletsponge]

all this Luck/vikings talk is giving me a raging b0ner. i know it wont happen but its nice to dream

[Julio Riddols]

Holy crap, the Bengals are making good moves all of a sudden. This is the best thing that has happened to the team in a long time transaction wise.

[Vince, Pt. II]

I can't imagine that Carson Palmer is a significant upgrade over Jason Campbell. Dude was about as mobile as Michaelangelo's David before the knee injury, now he's older and hasn't played any football since last December. So for comparison's sake, let's take the Raiders as they sat before the Campbell injury.

AFC Teams who are clearly better than Oakland: New England & Baltimore.
AFC Teams who are probably better than Oakland: San Diego & Pittsburgh
AFC Teams who are arguably better than Oakland: Buffalo, New York, Houston, Tennessee, Cincinnati

Trading away two firsts (or a first and a second, the more likely scenario) is something you do for one of two reasons - 1) You're that one player away from a true Super Bowl contender. 2) You're getting a can't-miss young player who is somehow already proven.

#1 is obviously untrue, as there are several teams in the league that are clearly better than the Raiders as-is. #2 is also obviously untrue, because Palmer is 31, and outside of 2005 has been a mediocre QB.

I guess I just can't justify going after Palmer at such a high cost when someone like Orton was available for probably a very low price tag.

[Passacaglia]

Perhaps Detroit thought Brown would be a better fit because he can catch out of the backfield

I thought he does the opposite of that.

[Ragone]

cant believe they didnt call jamarcus to come back and thow the ball out the stadium woo that guy has an arm

Come on pumpy, Jamarcus is managing his Purple drank factory now, he wouldn't have time to practice.. oh wait he didn't even when he was with the raiders.

[Peregrine]

Apparently Al's spirit hung around long enough to oversee one final lousy Raiders personnel deal.


Pretty interesting to read Peter King's column and see that the Bengals ownership felt like they had to get a second round pick for Palmer. They got that and plenty more.

[molson]

Here's another unlikely scenario - do you take another QB #1 the year after taking a QB at #12?

I'd do it also. Maybe if you have a backup QB you like in Ponder you won't have to trade two 1st round picks if Luck goes down for two months.

1st round QBs aren't rare. The Raiders have one as a backup that they're afraid to put on the field.

[Izulde]

Parcells is the worst thing to happen to Miami since Jimmy Johnson

Fixed that for you

[rowech]

Fixed that for you

Parcells and Jimmy Johnson are two great coaches. Maybe there are bigger problems in Miami?

[RainMaker]

I'm going to lose it if Jerry Angelo doesn't fucking sign Matt Forte to a deal already. Dude is making $600,000 this year, he deserves it already.

[JAG]

I'm going to lose it if Jerry Angelo doesn't fucking sign Matt Forte to a deal already. Dude is making $600,000 this year, he deserves it already.

Really? He should've held out for a deal before the season started a la Chris Johnson / Frank Gore.

[Ksyrup]

I don't think Ponder will be great or anything, but I think most people underestimate him. He came out of a pro-style offense, is a smart guy and reads defenses really well. And he's mobile. I think the worst thing that happened to him was being taken so high when no one thought he would go that high. If he had been picked 8-10 spots in front of Andy Dalton, I think the perception would be greatly changed.

That said, when you replace a QB who's completing 60% of his passes and only has 2 turnovers in 6 games with a rookie, I'm not sure what you should expect. Clearly there are issues with this team that go beyond McNabb (I don't know, I haven't seen any of their games). Maybe Ponder won't take as many sacks. Maybe he can stretch the field a bit and put up more than 150 yards passing a game.

[JPhillips]

FYI: If you're looking for a Cleveland Brown era Brady Quinn Fathead there's a good deal:

http://www.graveyardmall.com/brady-quinn-fathead/

[Passacaglia]

Wow. I never knew what a fathead was before, even though I've heard ads for them. Are they really $100 regular price?

[cougarfreak]

I live here in Cincinnati and I don't think Palmer is shot. I think he simply burnt out on getting teed off on with the incredible amount of 2nd and 3rd and longs that the Bratkowski offensive system put him in.

Would I give up two first rounders for him? I don't know. But I think people saying he's done aren't looking at the situation he has been in the past few years here.

I don't know........even when they went to the playoffs two years ao, he was a league average quarterback at best. Last year, he was awful, but I think a lot of it was on the OC, and the receivers doing whatever the hell they wanted. I liked Palmer a lot. But giving up a 1st and a 2nd (which could turn into another 1st) for him is nuts. At this point, he's not worth that. Heck, you probably could have gotten Orton for next to nothing and basically been playing with the same player IMO.

[RainMaker]

Really? He should've held out for a deal before the season started a la Chris Johnson / Frank Gore.
I think he considered it but decided no to. He doesn't quite have the money to just sit out since he's still on a rookie deal.

It just pisses me off since they waste money on washed up players like Barber, Roy Williams, and Chester Taylor every year. But a guy who has turned into one of the top all-around backs in the league and has been nothing but loyal and a great guy in the locker room you play hardball with. I understand not re-structuring Briggs' deal, but this just seems ludicruous.

[Ksyrup]

Buddy of mine drew this:

http://dougorama.net/bu/al.jpg

[ISiddiqui]

Is that Al's zombie?

[Ksyrup]

Yeah, I assume that's either his zombie or an imagined Al conversation where he would think this trade was a good one .

Guess it wasn't posted here, but the Ronnie Brown/Jerome Harrison trade has been called off due to Harrison failing his physical. That sucks for the Lions.