2012 NFL Offseason thread

[miked]

So the question I guess I'm wondering is, what exactly is acceptable? We know teams try to get an advantage, we've heard the stories. Pumping loud crowd noise to the visitor bench, alleged problems with visiting team helmet communication devices. I mean, is it so hard to believe that a team would bug the opposition? We see coaches cover their mouths when they call plays in, we see 3 decoy players sending in signals, and much more. I'm certain that teams are constantly doing whatever they can to gain a competitive advantage, but where is the line drawn. I'm certain teams have probably tried to pay off sideline people to get info...but is it only ok to do these things if it's your team?

And why is this a crime? I guess I'm naive, but I didn't think it was illegal to try and record somebody's conversations. Are they tapping phone lines, or just putting listening devices to hear?

[Lathum]

And why is this a crime? I guess I'm naive, but I didn't think it was illegal to try and record somebody's conversations. Are they tapping phone lines, or just putting listening devices to hear?

Laws likely vary by state, but I know in the state of Washington it is illegal to record someone without their consent.

[Ksyrup]

Scott Bentley is intimately familiar with those laws in Florida.

[spleen1015]

Show me where anyone was called stupid? The fact is if he can't figure out why no one is willing to give the Saints the benefit of the doubt then he isn't looking at it with any perspective.

In this situation, no one was called stupid.

[Passacaglia]

tapping phone lines

You know that that ain't allowed

[Thomkal]

Well apparently the WR situation in Minnesota is so bad that they have signed a player about to start a 15 day jail sentence and miss the first three games of the regular season. Yep they have signed pot-head Jerome Simpson.

[miked]

You know that that ain't allowed

Well yes, tapping phone lines isn't allowed. But would I be able to put a listening device on the side line somewhere? I'm just trying to figure out at what point something becomes a competitive advantage and something we don't want. Pumping in artificial crowd noise to visitor bench = bad, having people with binoculars trying to steal signals = good.

[molson]

Well yes, tapping phone lines isn't allowed. But would I be able to put a listening device on the side line somewhere? I'm just trying to figure out at what point something becomes a competitive advantage and something we don't want. Pumping in artificial crowd noise to visitor bench = bad, having people with binoculars trying to steal signals = good.

I'm pretty sure the NFL has drawn that line down to the detail with hundreds or thousands of rules and regulations. We got a glimpse of that with the spygate thing, there was a ton of information about exactly what was allowed, and when and where it was allowed. And that was a few years ago now. I bet its even more detailed now, with almost every conceivable situation accounted for. And really, you can draw the line anywhere, there's no perfect place, it's just important to have a line that, in theory, applies to all teams.

[Blackadar]

You know that that ain't allowed

Wonderfully done, even if miked missed the reference. A++++++!!!!

We dress like students, we dress like housewives, or in a suit and a tie.

[Logan]

I'm pretty sure the NFL has drawn that line down to the detail with hundreds or thousands of rules and regulations. We got a glimpse of that with the spygate thing, there was a ton of information about exactly what was allowed, and when and where it was allowed. And that was a few years ago now. I bet its even more detailed now, with almost every conceivable situation accounted for. And really, you can draw the line anywhere, there's no perfect place, it's just important to have a line that, in theory, applies to all teams.

And important to note, just like with the bounties, the NFL warned all teams about videotaping signals. The Patriots kept doing it and got busted, hence the penalty.

[Matthean]

So much for the Lions season. Calvin Johnson gets the cover of Madden.

[Lathum]

So much for the Lions season. Calvin Johnson gets the cover of Madden.

I am honestly shocked any player would do this.

[spleen1015]

Mort mentioned this morning on Mike & Mike that the Pro Bowl is likely dead.

[spleen1015]

I am honestly shocked any player would do this.

Megatron will break the curse!

[Kodos]

He is dooooooooooooomed.

[Rizon]

Mort mentioned this morning on Mike & Mike that the Pro Bowl is likely dead.

Pro Bowl is all but dead - CBSSports (http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/blog/mike-freeman/18839915/pro-bowl-is-all-but-dead)

Many years past due. The Pro Bowl is like that rustbucket '35 pickup that's sat in the forest of weeds in your uncle's backyard for the last 70 years.

[Passacaglia]

So will announcers just start throwing around the term "All-Pro" for anyone they think had a pretty decent year?

[spleen1015]

So will announcers just start throwing around the term "All-Pro" for anyone they think had a pretty decent year?

Isn't the All-Pro Team different than making the Pro Bowl?

EDIT - Yeah it is - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All-Pro

[molson]

It sounds like they'll still have pro-bowl voting, pro-bowl teams, pro-bowl incentives in contracts, and some kind of recognition of the players super bowl week. They'll just skip the game and the trip to Hawaii.

[DataKing]

I haven't watched the Pro Bowl in years because defense (or rather, the lack thereof).

[Passacaglia]

Isn't the All-Pro Team different than making the Pro Bowl?

EDIT - Yeah it is - All-Pro - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All-Pro)

Interesting, thanks.

[mckerney]

Pro Bowl is all but dead - CBSSports (http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/blog/mike-freeman/18839915/pro-bowl-is-all-but-dead)

Many years past due. The Pro Bowl is like that rustbucket '35 pickup that's sat in the forest of weeds in your uncle's backyard for the last 70 years.

http://geektyrant.com/storage/post-images-2011/darthnoooooo.jpeg?__SQUARESPACE_CACHEVERSION=1314742043907

[Grover]

Michael Davis, brother of Vernon and Vontae Davis, arrested and suspected of murder | ProFootballTalk (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/04/27/brother-of-vernon-vontae-davis-arrested-suspected-of-murder/)

It's too bad his name isn't Maxwell, and the hammer isn't silver.

[larrymcg421]

AJC ‏ <s>@</s>ajc (https://twitter.com/#%21/ajc) Breaking sports news: Four Saints suspended; Vilma for all of 2012. Story to come.

[larrymcg421]

dola

The suspensions were: Vilma for the season, Anthony Hargrove (now with the Packers) for 8 games, Will Smith for 4 games, and Scott Fujita (now with the Browns) for 3 games.

[Blackadar]

This is going to Federal Court - bank on it.

[albionmoonlight]

I'm sure that the NFLPA will appeal.

Hopefully, this is far out enough before the season that the appeal will be resolved (one way or the other) before the season starts.

[Blackadar]

I'm sure that the NFLPA will appeal.

Hopefully, this is far out enough before the season that the appeal will be resolved (one way or the other) before the season starts.

It's unlikely to be resolved that quickly. The players will appeal and their GODdell will rule in his own favor. Then the NFL PA will go to Federal Court (aka the StarCaps case). The players will be allowed to play while it goes to court, but this is gonna take a while.

[Buccaneer]

Cool, they get to (correctly) suspend the coach for a season and they try to do the same thing with a player that actually performed some of the actions and they're screaming and hollering.

[Logan]

Unconfirmed word coming from TMZ that Junior Seau is dead. Police responded to a shooting at his house.

[jeff061]

Junior Seau -- Cops Investigating Shooting Involving NFL Star | TMZ.com (http://www.tmz.com/2012/05/02/junior-seau-shooting-police/)

People in law enforcement are telling us Junior Seau is dead ... but we are unable to confirm that right now.

[Honolulu_Blue]

dola

Anthony Hargrove (now with the Packers) for 8 games...

The Lions don't play the Packers until after Week 8. Thanks for nothing, Goodell!

[jeff061]

Quick update, TMZ seems pretty sure now.

Junior Seau Dead -- Cops Investigating Shooting | TMZ.com (http://www.tmz.com/2012/05/02/junior-seau-dead/)

[spleen1015]

Quick update, TMZ seems pretty sure now.

Junior Seau Dead -- Cops Investigating Shooting | TMZ.com (http://www.tmz.com/2012/05/02/junior-seau-dead/)

Nice, they're implying that it may be suicide?? Anyone else read it that way?

WTF?

[jeff061]

After driving his SUV off a cliff a year ago and having to deny a suicide attempt, I assumed that.

[Dutch]

Terrible tragedy but an extremely kind-hearted acknowledgement by Greg Schiano to Eric Legrand.

Eric LeGrand fulfills NFL dreams by signing with Tampa Bay Buccaneers and Greg Schiano
Eric LeGrand fulfills NFL dreams by signing with Tampa Bay Buccaneers and Greg Schiano | NJ.com (http://www.nj.com/rutgersfootball/index.ssf/2012/05/eric_legrand_fulfills_nfl_drea.html)

http://media.nj.com/rutgers_football/photo/10940512-large.jpg


When the call came to their Woodbridge apartment early Tuesday, Karen LeGrand (mother) kept out of sight in an adjoining room, eavesdropping on her son’s half of the conversation.

“I knew it was coming so I was listening in,” she said today. “And I heard Eric say, ‘Are you serious, coach? Really? No, you’re not serious.’

[kingfc22]

Terrell Suggs gone for the year.

[Suburban Rhythm]

Rumored Terrell Suggs tore an Achilles, out for the year.

[JPhillips]

I hear from two sources that Suggs is out for the year.

[Blackadar]

Confirmed.

Terrell Suggs of Baltimore Ravens tears Achilles tendon - ESPN (http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/7885596/terrell-suggs-baltimore-ravens-tears-achilles-tendon)

As a Steeler fan, I'm used to Suggs killing us every game - but I'd rather beat Baltimore at their best. So to any Ratbirds fans out there, I'm sorry to hear about this.

[RedKingGold]

This is going to Federal Court - bank on it.

Doubt it, CBA preemption is pretty strong.

State court is more likely, if at all.

[Blackadar]

Doubt it, CBA preemption is pretty strong.

State court is more likely, if at all.

It'll start there. There's going to be some clever attorney that finds a LA statute that conflicts with this part of the CBA and tries to use that in court. If they're successful, then it'll move to Federal Court at some point like the StarCaps case.

---

Back to the Saints - I think the penalties are overly harsh. Vilma getting 16 games? That's not right. At the same time, I I really don't want to hear any Saints fans bitching.

Big Ben was suspended originally for 6 games for being accused of rape - of a crime that didn't have enough evidence to even have probable cause for charges. No physical evidence supported her "she said-he said" allegations. Yet Der Commish took it upon himself to make Ben an example. It was mostly about image and that's why Ben was slapped with 6 games. It was and remains an absurdity - no one has been ever been suspended that long over such flimsy allegations. Yet the Steeler family and fans took it (and some said it was a good thing for Big Ben) and dealt with it. To this day, fans of many teams - including yours, Saints fans - call Ben a rapist and other vile crap. GODdell made Ben an example to protect the NFL image and Ben still has to deal with that every game, every stadium. When we played in your house a couple of years ago, the fans in that stadium made constant references to the "rapist" on the field.

So now the Saints players are getting long suspensions due largely to the same thing - image. Your guys did something wrong, but it's really the image that's been tarnished. So guess what, Saints fans? You and the rest of the NFL fans had your opportunity to voice your opinions regarding image-based suspensions and you chose to support the Commish over facts and fairness. So now that your team is impacted, well...I don't have any sympathy for you. Don't whine when people call your Super Bowl tarnished or your team a bunch of criminals or mercenaries. Suck it up and deal with it.

Doesn't feel good when the shoe is on the other foot, does it?

[Honolulu_Blue]

I have no problem with the penalties at all.

[Logan]

It'll start there. There's going to be some clever attorney that finds a LA statute that conflicts with this part of the CBA and tries to use that in court. If they're successful, then it'll move to Federal Court at some point like the StarCaps case.

---

Back to the Saints - I think the penalties are overly harsh. Vilma getting 16 games? That's not right. At the same time, I I really don't want to hear any Saints fans bitching.

Big Ben was suspended originally for 6 games for being accused of rape - of a crime that didn't have enough evidence to even have probable cause for charges. No physical evidence supported her "she said-he said" allegations. Yet Der Commish took it upon himself to make Ben an example. It was mostly about image and that's why Ben was slapped with 6 games. It was and remains an absurdity - no one has been ever been suspended that long over such flimsy allegations. Yet the Steeler family and fans took it (and some said it was a good thing for Big Ben) and dealt with it. To this day, fans of many teams - including yours, Saints fans - call Ben a rapist and other vile crap. GODdell made Ben an example to protect the NFL image and Ben still has to deal with that every game, every stadium. When we played in your house a couple of years ago, the fans in that stadium made constant references to the "rapist" on the field.

So now the Saints players are getting long suspensions due largely to the same thing - image. Your guys did something wrong, but it's really the image that's been tarnished. So guess what, Saints fans? You and the rest of the NFL fans had your opportunity to voice your opinions regarding image-based suspensions and you chose to support the Commish over facts and fairness. So now that your team is impacted, well...I don't have any sympathy for you. Don't whine when people call your Super Bowl tarnished or your team a bunch of criminals or mercenaries. Suck it up and deal with it.

Doesn't feel good when the shoe is on the other foot, does it?

"Fantasyland" is right.

[RomaGoth]

I have no problem with the penalties at all.

Nor do I.

[Kodos]

I love that Goodell is a hardass.

[Kodos]

I hear from two sources that Suggs is out for the year.

:D

[stevew]

Confirmed.

Terrell Suggs of Baltimore Ravens tears Achilles tendon - ESPN (http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/7885596/terrell-suggs-baltimore-ravens-tears-achilles-tendon)

As a Steeler fan, I'm used to Suggs killing us every game - but I'd rather beat Baltimore at their best. So to any Ratbirds fans out there, I'm sorry to hear about this.

I was hoping that Ben could go most of the game without wearing a #55 jersey. Much prefer the scenerio where he walks off the field as a loser vs watching the game in a cast

[RedKingGold]

It'll start there. There's going to be some clever attorney that finds a LA statute that conflicts with this part of the CBA and tries to use that in court. If they're successful, then it'll move to Federal Court at some point like the StarCaps case.

I think you're confusing this a bit, the clever attorney would file the state court action but the cleverer NFL attorney would remove to federal court under preemption and the federal court would likely remand to NFL labor arbitration.

What made the StarCaps case successful is that those plaintiffs had a broader choice of forums and chose Minnesota's favorable drug testing laws. I'm not sue the same forum choices would be available here.

[stevew]

I'm hoping Vilma gets indicted at some point. Slapping down 10K on a table to incite an individual to injure someone should not be tolerated. Even within the confines of a sporting event.

[PilotMan]

Confirmed.

Terrell Suggs of Baltimore Ravens tears Achilles tendon - ESPN (http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/7885596/terrell-suggs-baltimore-ravens-tears-achilles-tendon)

As a Steeler fan, I'm used to Suggs killing us every game - but I'd rather beat Baltimore at their best. So to any Ratbirds fans out there, I'm sorry to hear about this.

As a Steeler fan, I'm not. I feel for the player, not an injury that I ever want to experience or wish on anyone, but I don't feel bad for the team at all.

[Young Drachma]

Alex Tanney, YouTube QB sensation*lands invite to Buffalo Bills camp - NFL - SI.com (http://cnnsi.com/2012/football/nfl/05/04/alex.tanney.bills.ap/index.html?sct=hp_t2_a9&eref=sihp)
A five-minute YouTube video was enough to make quarterback Alex Tanney an overnight sensation for displaying his uncanny accuracy.
Tanney created a big buzz last year in the self-titled "Trick Shot Quarterback" video by showing he can hit a receiver in a moving vehicle and throw footballs from across the court and swish them into basketball nets. He even banged a pass off the crossbar of an upright from 50 yards out - from his knees.

Now the Division III Monmouth College (Ill.) product will provide the Buffalo Bills a firsthand look to see whether he has a future in the NFL. After being passed up in the draft last weekend, Tanney has accepted an invitation to take part in the Bills' three-day rookie minicamp that opens May 11.

"I'm from a small school, and the only thing I've ever really wanted was an opportunity to get into a camp," the 23-year-old said by phone this week. "And now I have that in Buffalo, so I'm anxious to get out there and compete for a spot."
Turns out, the Bills weren't the only team interested in the 6-foot-4, 220-pound quarterback who set an NCAA record with 157 touchdown passes over a five-year career with the Fighting Scots.

Tanney initially agreed to attend the Pittsburgh Steelers' rookie camp, but changed his mind after Buffalo extended an invite.
He made the switch because he felt Buffalo was a better fit. Noting that Bills were among the first teams to contact him this offseason, Tanney added that he's spoken to Buffalo's new quarterback coach David Lee on several occasions.

He's also aware that the team's No. 3 position is unfilled behind starter Ryan Fitzpatrick and backup Tyler Thigpen.
If one thing's for certain, Tanner's accuracy shouldn't be an issue.

In the video, Tanney bounces a pass off the floor into a trash barrel. He even threads a pass blind from the floor of the gymnasium up through a hallway and into a trash barrel on the floor of the school's adjacent running track.
The video has received more than 1.1 million hits since Tanney and his friends posted it in February 2011, and led to him attracting national attention.
Tanney showed off his throwing ability while featured on an episode of "Stan Lee's Superhumans" on the History Channel. It also led to numerous television interviews, including ones in Japan, Israel, Argentina and Chile.
Tanney would rather play down his YouTube popularity and instead focus on what he did on the field.
"The success and the numbers I put up speak for themselves rather than the YouTube video," he said. "But obviously, that's what people are going to talk about."

In 47 games, he completed 68.6 percent of his passes going 1,205 for 1,756 with only 30 interceptions. He threw for 300 yards 32 times and finished with a Division III record 14,249 yards passing. Add it up, by NFL standards, Tanney finished with a 115.8 passer rating.
And yet, he accepts his instant celebrity.

"We really didn't expect it to take off like it did. It kind of blew up," Tanney said. "We had fun with it. It was a good experience. But I kind of think that's past me. I'm just looking forward to getting my shot in the NFL."

The son of a longtime football coach, Tanney has been a quarterback since he started playing. He figures he was overlooked by Division I programs because he played for a tiny high school that had only 170 students.

And though he was hoping to be drafted, Tanney understood the possibility was unlikely.
That makes him even more driven to succeed.
"I've had a chip on my shoulder basically throughout high school, college, coming from small schools and wanting to prove to people what I have," Tanney said. "I'm anxious to get out to Buffalo and see what I can do there."

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/SxDJb03a0yo?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[Young Drachma]

Tanney actually replaced his brother who spent four years as the QB before him and they always said he was better. The brother got a tryout and played Arena for a bit, so the talent is in the bloodlines and Monmouth football has pretty much never been better than it was over the past four years.

So if nothing else, the kid knew how to win. And Buffalo already has D3 Fred Jackson hanging out on their roster, not to mention that Ivy QB, so seems like they're probably a good fit for him over his initial shot in Pittsburgh.

[DanGarion]

Alex Tanney, YouTube QB sensation*lands invite to Buffalo Bills camp - NFL - SI.com (http://cnnsi.com/2012/football/nfl/05/04/alex.tanney.bills.ap/index.html?sct=hp_t2_a9&eref=sihp)


<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/SxDJb03a0yo?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Eh, he has nothing on Johnny McEntee

[mckerney]

http://o.onionstatic.com/images/articles/article/28/28096/SSWS-Robert_Griffin-web_1_jpg_630x1200_upscale_q85.jpg

[M GO BLUE!!!]

I just read that RG3's girlfriend bought a new Bentley.

Wouldn't it be great if she signed the papers herself & he dumps her before she starts blowing his money? I don't think you can just return a Bentley.

[Matthean]

I just read that RG3's girlfriend bought a new Bentley.

Wouldn't it be great if she signed the papers herself & he dumps her before she starts blowing his money? I don't think you can just return a Bentley.

You could sell it even if you would be taking a hit from it.

[CU Tiger]

You could sell it even if you would be taking a hit from it.


Right but if you assume the old 10% when you drive it of the lot line, can she fork out $45,000?

[Passacaglia]

Wouldn't it be even greater if they had a loving relationship that lasted the rest of their lives?

[Julio Riddols]

Sounds like that woman comes with a shovel. Before he has even signed the contract? I hope he doesn't get her pregnant any time soon.

[Kodos]

Wouldn't it be even greater if they had a loving relationship that lasted the rest of their lives?

Bull hockey!

[Matthean]

<iframe id="NBC Video Widget" width="512" height="347" src="http://www.nbc.com/assets/video/widget/widget.html?vid=1400045" frameborder="0"></iframe>

[tarcone]

Awesome!

[molson]

Eli didn't get as strong caliber material to work with as peyton but I thought he was just as funny.

[JonInMiddleGA]

This is rather odd. Apparently Vilma has decided to get into a minor Tweet skirmish with an AJC writer/blogger.

Jonathan Vilma and I go back and forth on Twitter | Jeff Schultz (http://blogs.ajc.com/jeff-schultz-blog/2012/05/07/jonathan-vilma-and-i-go-back-and-forth-on-twitter/?cxntfid=blogs_jeff_schultz_blog)

Seriously? When will athletes figure out that social media has a tendency to make them appear stupid more often than anything else?

[Lathum]

Eli didn't get as strong calibwer material to work with as peyton but I thought he was just as funny.

agreed.

The first half was really good but the second half was pretty meh. Mostly because of the writing. I thught Eli was a good sport and pretty funny.

[mckerney]

A bill to finance a new Viking stadium passed the Minnesota house and senate, expected to be signed by the governor today and will then just need to be approved by the Minneapolis city council.

[cartman]

The USFL is coming back.

USFL relaunching, ex-Raider Fred Biletnikoff involved - San Jose Mercury News (http://www.mercurynews.com/raiders/ci_20594607/usfl-relaunching-ex-raider-fred-biletnikoff-involved?source=autofeed)

[flounder]

More football is always a good thing. I remember watching the New Orleans Breakers in the Superdome when I was 10.

[RendeR]

The USFL is coming back.

USFL relaunching, ex-Raider Fred Biletnikoff involved - San Jose Mercury News (http://www.mercurynews.com/raiders/ci_20594607/usfl-relaunching-ex-raider-fred-biletnikoff-involved?source=autofeed)



Wow, I am quite thrilled to hear of this news. But getting a league running in a year? sounds like a bit much to hope for. I'd expect them to be ready maybe spring 2014, but hey stranger things have happened.

[Ksyrup]

14 week season starting in March, using ex-NFL players and undrafted college guys? I expect week 7-9 or so to be interesting when the NFL draft is over and you've suddenly got a bunch of guys who just played college ball available to join your team. I wonder if having the USFL as an option to prove yourself would sway a potential UDFA NFL signee to wait it out and play in the USFL as an audition to NFL summer camp? Or if marginal late round picks would go ahead and play in the USFL starting in March, hoping to get picked in the draft and then leave when they get a UDFA NFL offer the day after the draft?

[flounder]

Another question would be if they will allow 18 year olds to play.

[cartman]

I'm convinced that if the original USFL had stuck to their spring schedule, they would still be around.

[stevew]

This is an UFL(pronounced phonetically) idea

[Lathum]

Another question would be if they will allow 18 year olds to play.

This I think is a key. It almost seems like they are trying to strike while the iron is hot and maybe emerge as a minor league for the NFL.

[Suicane75]

Another question would be if they will allow 18 year olds to play.

Or breastfeed.

[korme]

Joe Vitt: "Darren Sproles will still be able to make someone miss a tackle when he's 75 years old" ..... In a word, no

[bhlloy]

I dunno, some of the tackling form you see from old ladies in those nursing homes is pretty bad

[gstelmack]

I still want to know if the NFL will be using the players' relucatance to improved pad requirements as evidence in all the concussion lawsuits they are facing...

[cuervo72]

I don't see why the pads are such a big deal. Directly, no they may not prevent that many concussions. HTH hits will still happen, and if you get a knee to the head (which I had happen in HS) you can still get your bell rung.

But, I hear players complain that they don't like the pads because it slows them down - going without helps them keep up with the speed of the game. But isn't the increased speed of today's game cited as a contributing factor to injury? Wouldn't slowing things down help, even if ever-so-slightly?

[Blackadar]

I don't see why the pads are such a big deal. Directly, no they may not prevent that many concussions. HTH hits will still happen, and if you get a knee to the head (which I had happen in HS) you can still get your bell rung.

But, I hear players complain that they don't like the pads because it slows them down - going without helps them keep up with the speed of the game. But isn't the increased speed of today's game cited as a contributing factor to injury? Wouldn't slowing things down help, even if ever-so-slightly?

Also, getting kneed in the head isn't an unheard-of way to get a concussion, so padding the point of the knee couldn't hurt.

[gstelmack]

My main issue is the players whine about the extra pads, they whine about fines for hits, they whine about not being able to lead with the head, and then sue for injuries. I find them very hypocritical on the topic of player safety.

That isn't to say the NFL isn't hypocritical as well, cashing in on photos of big hits that they fine players for, for example.

[cuervo72]

Also, getting kneed in the head isn't an unheard-of way to get a concussion, so padding the point of the knee couldn't hurt.

I agree that it couldn't hurt. Probably won't prevent most of them, but couldn't hurt.

[Passacaglia]

Who's on Lathum watch?

[Bad-example]

Who's on Lathum watch?

Micky Mouse?

[johnnyshaka]

Tell me Nicks didn't do anything stupid like set off a concealed gun and shatter his foot?

[spleen1015]

Tell me Nicks didn't do anything stupid like set off a concealed gun and shatter his foot?

Not unless they allow guns on the Giants practice field.

[johnnyshaka]

Not unless they allow guns on the Giants practice field.

They don't allow guns in NYC night clubs but...

[molson]

The players are suing over collusion again too. I guess they thought it was fishy that teams were being penalized for exceeding the salary cap in a year that didn't have a salary cap.

[Logan]

The players are suing over collusion again too. I guess they thought it was fishy that teams were being penalized for exceeding the salary cap in a year that didn't have a salary cap.

Next time they should make sure their appointed leaders don't sign something saying they won't sue over anything that happened in the past.

[molson]

Next time they should make sure their appointed leaders don't sign something saying they won't sue over anything that happened in the past.

Ideally, but you can always sue over whether that applies or not. The NFL and its players are definitely doing their part to help the struggling legal industry.

[stevew]

Hey, if the players want to get 80% of a new 5B league, good luck to them.

[Lathum]

ugh

12 weeks, should be back for the end of camp.

[Buccaneer]

My main issue is the players whine about the extra pads, they whine about fines for hits, they whine about not being able to lead with the head, and then sue for injuries. I find them very hypocritical on the topic of player safety.

That isn't to say the NFL isn't hypocritical as well, cashing in on photos of big hits that they fine players for, for example.

The players are whining about the the extra pads because they don't make them look good. Got to look good for the highlight films. :rolleyes:

[Julio Riddols]

Joe Vitt: "Darren Sproles will still be able to make someone miss a tackle when he's 75 years old" ..... In a word, no

In the future: The 2058 season is coming to its conclusion and a group of old friends and family are gathered to watch the super bowl at the Sproles residence.

With 11 seconds left, the Las Vegas Raiders have one final play left to try and steal the game away from the D.C. Native Americans. QB Bobby Young, grandson of Vince, rolls to his left and throws a dart to his slot receiver on an out route. He makes the catch, turns up field and-

"HEY WHERE THE FUCK ARE MY DIAPERS!!!" Grandpa Darren screams out suddenly, drowning out the sounds of the game and distracting the viewers in the house. Slowly everyone realizes that they missed the final play of the game, where the Native Americans safety had just made a great shoestring tackle to stop the receiver inches from paydirt and save the Super Bowl for D.C.. In the confusion, his grandson Jimmy missed the play.

In his grave, the corpse of Joe Vitt smiles, his statement from 51 years prior coming true. Validation.

[gstelmack]

The players are suing over collusion again too. I guess they thought it was fishy that teams were being penalized for exceeding the salary cap in a year that didn't have a salary cap.

It wasn't that teams exceeded the salary cap, it was that they front-loaded contracts that year to gain an advantage in later years when they expected a cap to be back. A contract like:

$30m Bonus
$8m
$10m
$12m

wasn't the issue, it was things like:

$20m Bonus
$18m
$10m
$12m

that got the league going. Basically using year 1 to bury extra bonus money so it wasn't spread out over the rest of the contract when they knew there'd be a cap.

[BillJasper]

You wonder why the NFL would even bring attention to this? A bunch of teams working together under an assumed set of rules that had yet to be negotiated with the union would seem to be collusion to me.

[QuikSand]

In the future: The 2058 season is coming to its conclusion and a group of old friends and family are gathered to watch the super bowl at the Sproles residence.

With 11 seconds left, the Las Vegas Raiders have one final play left to try and steal the game away from the D.C. Native Americans. QB Bobby Young, grandson of Vince, rolls to his left and throws a dart to his slot receiver on an out route. He makes the catch, turns up field and-

"HEY WHERE THE FUCK ARE MY DIAPERS!!!" Grandpa Darren screams out suddenly, drowning out the sounds of the game and distracting the viewers in the house. Slowly everyone realizes that they missed the final play of the game, where the Native Americans safety had just made a great shoestring tackle to stop the receiver inches from paydirt and save the Super Bowl for D.C.. In the confusion, his grandson Jimmy missed the play.

In his grave, the corpse of Joe Vitt smiles, his statement from 51 years prior coming true. Validation.

A lot of effort, nice work there.

[Blackadar]

It wasn't that teams exceeded the salary cap, it was that they front-loaded contracts that year to gain an advantage in later years when they expected a cap to be back. A contract like:

$30m Bonus
$8m
$10m
$12m

wasn't the issue, it was things like:

$20m Bonus
$18m
$10m
$12m

that got the league going. Basically using year 1 to bury extra bonus money so it wasn't spread out over the rest of the contract when they knew there'd be a cap.

This is it, but let's use real numbers. There's no evidence that there was a secret cap. However, teams were told that if the next CBA had a cap and teams shifted money into the uncapped year in an attempt to gain an advantage in future cap years, they'd be in trouble. Dallas and Washington did this, big-time, and that's why they got slapped. If they had offered a player a 1 year, $50m contract in the uncapped year, that wouldn't have been fined at all because that wouldn't impact future (capped years).

Let's take Miles Austin's contract. It was extended during the uncapped year - a year in which he was to make $3m. Instead, they front loaded it like such.

Year 1: $17.078m - all in GUARANTEED SALARY, so it hits all during the uncapped year.
Year 2: $1.15m
Year 3: $6.732m
Year 4: $5.5m
Year 5: $6.888m
Year 6: $11.38m

Austin's uncapped year hit is still $4m above his hit for the next 3 years combined. That's a clear attempt to avoid a cap in future years and that's why Dallas was bitch-slapped because of it. Everyone expected a cap going forward, which is why this was put as policy in the first place.

The union has little chance of prevailing on this issue. Not only is this not the same thing as a "secret cap", they also signed in the CBA language that they couldn't even sue for any collusion in 2010. So they're going to have a hard time getting this to court in the first place. Even if the NFLPA shows there was collusion, they still have to prove that there was damages incurred and that's going to be very tough to do. Was anyone player paid less money because of the NFL's rule that you couldn't front load contracts to avoid any probable future caps? The NFL could easily argue that players were paid the same amount, but have it spread out via a signing bonus (as is done now) and the NFLPA has to try to find some way to refute that. That's going to be tough when many teams took it upon themselves to make more money by not spending anything during the uncapped year, meaning that there wasn't as much competition for the services of top players anyway.

Those are a lot of hurdles to get over in court and frankly, I don't think the NFLPA will even get their opportunity with the existing CBA language.

[Ksyrup]

There's no evidence that there was a secret cap. However, teams were told that if the next CBA had a cap and teams shifted money into the uncapped year in an attempt to gain an advantage in future cap years, they'd be in trouble.

The biggest hole in this argument is the assumption that the next CBA would have a cap. You can't make that assumption, because the players could have decided to draw a line in the sand and still be holding out for no cap. You can't make that assumption at the time, before the CBA had been bargained, without it being a de facto secret cap - basically, the NFL told teams to treat that season just like all the other (capped) years. I don't see how this isn't a catch-22 for the league.

[Logan]

The biggest hole in this argument is the assumption that the next CBA would have a cap. You can't make that assumption, because the players could have decided to draw a line in the sand and still be holding out for no cap. You can't make that assumption at the time, before the CBA had been bargained, without it being a de facto secret cap - basically, the NFL told teams to treat that season just like all the other (capped) years. I don't see how this isn't a catch-22 for the league.

How is it a secret cap if the REAL dollars being spent aren't being questioned/penalized against?

[gstelmack]

The biggest hole in this argument is the assumption that the next CBA would have a cap. You can't make that assumption, because the players could have decided to draw a line in the sand and still be holding out for no cap. You can't make that assumption at the time, before the CBA had been bargained, without it being a de facto secret cap - basically, the NFL told teams to treat that season just like all the other (capped) years. I don't see how this isn't a catch-22 for the league.

I disagree. It was the front-loading that the league went after, not how much was spent in that year.

And you could make the assumption there would be a cap, because the owners weren't passing anything that didn't include one.

[Ksyrup]

Maybe it's just semantics then. If it's not a cap, it's still a de facto restriction on the contract term. So you're saying it's OK to spend $50M on a player, but not if you pay them over 5 years. I still don't see the difference. You're penalizing them for the effect that contract would have based on a CBA that didn't exist at the time and the terms of which were unknown to anyone - including whether/when there'd even be a next CBA - at the time the contract was signed. That, in effect, is treating an uncapped year like a capped year - or, if you don't like reference to the cap, treating a contract signed without a CBA in place as if the contract was signed under a CBA. An extension of the previous CBA, to be exact (since those are the rules they used to tell teams what they could and couldn't do during the year in which no CBA existed).

[Ksyrup]

I disagree. It was the front-loading that the league went after, not how much was spent in that year.

And you could make the assumption there would be a cap, because the owners weren't passing anything that didn't include one.

Then we have no NFL if the players decide to take a hardline stance. You simply can't take the position that the league knew what the next CBA would say before it was drafted or agreed to.

[Ksyrup]

Any way I view it, the NFL tried to treat a year without a CBA as if a CBA was in place. A CBA that looked virtually identical to the CBA that just expired. I don't see any way around that fact. I understand what they were doing and why they did it, but they agreed to an uncapped year and playing a year without a CBA, and so it should have been the wild wild west in terms of what contract terms players and teams were allowed to agree to. That's what the NFL decided to do when they opted out of the CBA to begin with. It makes a ton of sense now, because opting out of the CBA and putting these restrictions on the teams gave the league a de facto CBA year when there wasn't supposed to be one.

[Blackadar]

Maybe it's just semantics then. If it's not a cap, it's still a de facto restriction on the contract term. So you're saying it's OK to spend $50M on a player, but not if you pay them over 5 years. I still don't see the difference. You're penalizing them for the effect that contract would have based on a CBA that didn't exist at the time and the terms of which were unknown to anyone - including whether/when there'd even be a next CBA - at the time the contract was signed. That, in effect, is treating an uncapped year like a capped year - or, if you don't like reference to the cap, treating a contract signed without a CBA in place as if the contract was signed under a CBA. An extension of the previous CBA, to be exact (since those are the rules they used to tell teams what they could and couldn't do during the year in which no CBA existed).

The differences are subtle, but I don't think they're simply semantics. The subtle differences are critically important.

It's ok to spend $50m on a player and it's ok to pay them that over 5 years. But the NFL repeatedly told teams it's not ok to manipulate that deal in an attempt to avoid any future salary caps. Look at that Miles Austin deal again. Is there any doubt that Dallas manipulated that deal to be cap-favorable in future years? If so, what does that say about their expectations that there would be a future cap?

The answers are pretty clear to those questions. Austin's contract is a clear attempt to reduce his future cap hit. That has very little to do with 2010. That has everything to do with 2011 and beyond. That's the subtle difference and in this case that subtlety is fairly critical.

So I disagree with your assertion that the NFL tried to treat a year without a CBA as if one were in place as it relates to the Washington/Dallas penalties. They treated that year as one in which they knew there would be a forthcoming CBA and attempts by teams to gain a competitive advantage under a future CBA would be punished. What you're essentially asking the NFL to do is not to anticipate and entirely ignore what the framework of a future deal would likely entail, which I don't find reasonable.

I'm not sure if you realize this, but you're kind of arguing out of both sides of your mouth here. Because you're arguing that 2010 should have been the "Wild West" and that "you simply can't take the position that the league knew what the next CBA would say before it was drafted or agreed to", yet the contracts you're arguing about were specifically written in such a way to take advantage of the rules of the next CBA. If they were written as if 2010 were the Wild West, then Miles Austin's contract would have been much more of a straight-line amortized contract and not grossly manipulated to reduce the cap hit in future years. After all, Dallas shouldn't have been anticipating a cap, should they?

[Ksyrup]

But the NFL repeatedly told teams it's not ok to manipulate that deal in an attempt to avoid any future salary caps.

I understand the differences. But my inquiry ends here. There were no future salary caps, and they can't pretend like there were. This wasn't just a one-year gap in the CBA. This was the NFL ending the only CBA that was in existence. It was commonly called an "uncapped year," but in reality, it was simply the NFL exercising its right to end the CBA and play one more year without a CBA. But that doesn't guarantee another CBA would ever be signed, nor does it guarantee it would be under terms even remotely similar to the previous contract. Nor did it guarantee that football would even be played in 2011.

So I understand the mechanics of it and what they were trying to protect against. But it was the league that ended the CBA, and without a CBA, it cannot put restrictions on teams' contracts as if a CBA was in place, or as if they could see into the future and know that a similar contract would eventually be signed that would cover 2011 and beyond and require that teams pretend that contract was signed and would become effective after the "uncapped year" was over. That's the problem, as I see it.

[Blackadar]

I understand the differences. But my inquiry ends here. There were no future salary caps, and they can't pretend like there were. This wasn't just a one-year gap in the CBA. This was the NFL ending the only CBA that was in existence. It was commonly called an "uncapped year," but in reality, it was simply the NFL exercising its right to end the CBA and play one more year without a CBA. But that doesn't guarantee another CBA would ever be signed, nor does it guarantee it would be under terms even remotely similar to the previous contract. Nor did it guarantee that football would even be played in 2011.

So I understand the mechanics of it and what they were trying to protect against. But it was the league that ended the CBA, and without a CBA, it cannot put restrictions on teams' contracts as if a CBA was in place, or as if they could see into the future and know that a similar contract would eventually be signed that would cover 2011 and beyond and require that teams pretend that contract was signed and would become effective after the "uncapped year" was over. That's the problem, as I see it.

Yet the contracts were specifically written in an attempt to gain a competitive advantage in future capped years. The teams that wrote those contracts were clearly "seeing into the future" regarding caps. I don't know how you logically get around that.

[albionmoonlight]

The NFL should have gotten the NFLPA, as part of the new CBA, to agree not to file any lawsuits based on NFL discipline for teams's actions during the "uncapped year." Considering all of the other big issues floating around, that would have been a pretty easy throw-in, I suspect.

(Assuming, of course, that such a provision would have been legal to put into a CBA. I'm no labor lawyer, so I really have no idea).

[Blackadar]

The NFL should have gotten the NFLPA, as part of the new CBA, to agree not to file any lawsuits based on NFL discipline for teams's actions during the "uncapped year." Considering all of the other big issues floating around, that would have been a pretty easy throw-in, I suspect.

(Assuming, of course, that such a provision would have been legal to put into a CBA. I'm no labor lawyer, so I really have no idea).

It's pretty much in there.

From what I understand, as part of the CBA, the NFLPA agreed to drop all pending litigation against the league for reasons "known and unknown, whether pending or not" including "asserted collusion" in regards to the 2010 year. That's all part of the current CBA. Furthermore, the NFLPA approved the penalties against the Cowboys and the Redskins.

As such, I don't see how Judge Doty can allow the case to go forward. It's pretty clear-cut that the NFLPA gave up their rights to sue *and* approved the penalties regarding the supposed "collusion".

[Ksyrup]

Yet the contracts were specifically written in an attempt to gain a competitive advantage in future capped years. The teams that wrote those contracts were clearly "seeing into the future" regarding caps. I don't know how you logically get around that.

It's pretty easy. Without a CBA, they were able to do anything they wanted, including "see into the future" or not.

[Blackadar]

It's pretty easy. Without a CBA, they were able to do anything they wanted, including "see into the future" or not.

Well, neither the NFL, the NFLPA nor the independent arbitrator agreed with that line of thinking.

[Crapshoot]

Any way I view it, the NFL tried to treat a year without a CBA as if a CBA was in place. A CBA that looked virtually identical to the CBA that just expired. I don't see any way around that fact. I understand what they were doing and why they did it, but they agreed to an uncapped year and playing a year without a CBA, and so it should have been the wild wild west in terms of what contract terms players and teams were allowed to agree to. That's what the NFL decided to do when they opted out of the CBA to begin with. It makes a ton of sense now, because opting out of the CBA and putting these restrictions on the teams gave the league a de facto CBA year when there wasn't supposed to be one.

Yup. And because its the NFL screwing the players, people ignore it / the media falls into the "can't we get along" bit rather than the fact that the owners were the ones who pushed the lockout in the first place. Drives me nuts.

[Ksyrup]

Well, neither the NFL, the NFLPA nor the independent arbitrator agreed with that line of thinking.

I haven't looked at a bit of this from a legal perspective. Just a matter of what makes sense to me, not as a matter of law.

[Logan]

I haven't looked at a bit of this from a legal perspective. Just a matter of what makes sense to me, not as a matter of law.

I think that makes your stance even harder to understand. You can't figure out how, from a competitive balance standpoint, it makes sense that the NFL would not want teams to circumvent the future salary cap that we all knew was coming? Again, we're not talking about limiting the actual dollars that teams could play players. In fact, the Cowboys and Redskins would have been well within their right to have $500MM payrolls (real dollars, not cap dollars) during 2010.

[Ksyrup]

I think that makes your stance even harder to understand. You can't figure out how, from a competitive balance standpoint, it makes sense that the NFL would not want teams to circumvent the future salary cap that we all knew was coming? Again, we're not talking about limiting the actual dollars that teams could play players. In fact, the Cowboys and Redskins would have been well within their right to have $500MM payrolls (real dollars, not cap dollars) during 2010.

Practically speaking, they may have been right about what was coming, but in fact, there was no CBA in existence at the time and no new CBA agreed to. At that time, it was anything goes. And here's the kicker - the NFL took the steps to opt out of the contract and create that situation! That makes me have absolutely no sympathy for their position.

The problem I have is the league creating the conditions of an uncapped year and no governing CBA while simultaneously requiring teams to act as if a new CBA has been agreed to. Logically, that doesn't fly. You can't have it both ways. You choose the path to take and deal with the ramifications. You don't take one path and apply the conditions of the other path to it, on the premise that both paths will eventually meet at some unknown point in the future.

[SteveMax58]

Yeah, I'm with Ksyrup's logic on the argument.

Or in other words...the NFL was expecting collusion to be the agreed upon approach by the owners. When 2 owners did not participate in the collusion, they are now being penalized.

Maybe I'm missing the details of why that doesn't fit this situation, but it sure sounds that way from the (admittedly limited) info I've read & heard.

[Blackadar]

Yeah, I'm with Ksyrup's logic on the argument.

Or in other words...the NFL was expecting collusion to be the agreed upon approach by the owners. When 2 owners did not participate in the collusion, they are now being penalized.

Maybe I'm missing the details of why that doesn't fit this situation, but it sure sounds that way from the (admittedly limited) info I've read & heard.

Note: just because owners colluded doesn't mean that it was illegal or the players were harmed in any way.

Something like 10 teams spent more than $123m in salary in 2010. Only two were penalized. Why? Because they agreed to abide by the rules of the league when then became owners. They just don't get to throw away rules that they don't like. So when the league says "don't try to fuck around and get a leg up when we go back to a cap" (which, face it, was a virtual certainty) and Jerry/Danny decided to not obey, that's their problem.

[RedKingGold]

It's pretty easy. Without a CBA, they were able to do anything they wanted, including "see into the future" or not.

Well, this is technically not accurate. When there is a bargaining relationship and a contract has expired, federal labor law requires the employer to maintain the status quo until union recognition is withdrawn or a new contract is reached.

The uncapped year was included in the old CBA, it's not that the cap went away when the contract went away.

[SteveMax58]

Note: just because owners colluded doesn't mean that it was illegal or the players were harmed in any way.

Something like 10 teams spent more than $123m in salary in 2010. Only two were penalized. Why? Because they agreed to abide by the rules of the league when then became owners. They just don't get to throw away rules that they don't like. So when the league says "don't try to fuck around and get a leg up when we go back to a cap" (which, face it, was a virtual certainty) and Jerry/Danny decided to not obey, that's their problem.

Were those rules spelled out though? And I mean not in some "conversation" or something like that...but at the least in a memo or bulletin of some sort?

And I agree on the collusion part. I just use that term as I didn't think there was a formal set of terms they had to work within. I understand that you pretty much agree to everything when you have an NFL franchise...but similar to other agreements...unlawful or unenforceable many times trumps those agreements.

As I said, I don't have all of the facts but it sure seems like they both were trying to gain a competitive advantage. And while that might not be the "spirit" of what the NFL expected, it seems to fall in the unlawful/unenforceable side.

[RedKingGold]

Also, how is the NFL penalizing the Cowboys/Redskins any different than the Burger King who slaps down franchises who offer a higher hourly rate to certain employees than other franchises?

If the NFL is a single entity, which the union conceded by signing the CBA, then it has the right discipline its franchises who acts harm the overall financial strategy of all franchises.

[SteveMax58]

The distinction to me is whether the "rules" are in a form of writing, acceptable within the rules of franchisees, with identified parameters to follow...or not.

Maybe there were. But there definitely are when you franchise a Burger King.

[Suburban Rhythm]

Let's take Miles Austin's contract. It was extended during the uncapped year - a year in which he was to make $3m. Instead, they front loaded it like such.

Year 1: $17.078m - all in GUARANTEED SALARY, so it hits all during the uncapped year.
Year 2: $1.15m
Year 3: $6.732m
Year 4: $5.5m
Year 5: $6.888m
Year 6: $11.38m

Austin's uncapped year hit is still $4m above his hit for the next 3 years combined. That's a clear attempt to avoid a cap in future years and that's why Dallas was bitch-slapped because of it. Everyone expected a cap going forward, which is why this was put as policy in the first place.


Yet the contracts were specifically written in an attempt to gain a competitive advantage in future capped years. The teams that wrote those contracts were clearly "seeing into the future" regarding caps. I don't know how you logically get around that.

These are the key parts for me. If we're saying the teams couldn't be expected to "see into the future" and expect the cap to return, what was the incentive for Dallas to fork out $17M in year one, and not $30M in year six? A dollar today is worth more than a dollar tomorrow.

No logic behind structuring a deal to best take advantage of a one year lapse by front loading salary...unless to give the player a ton of cash up front, usually in a bonus, other than to avoid perceived future repercussions of that money.

[mckerney]

Ex-kicker Mike Vanderjagt accused of grabbing child by neck - NFL - Sporting News (http://aol.sportingnews.com/nfl/story/2012-05-25/mike-vanderjagt-accused-of-grabbing-child-by-neck-suspended-as-coach)

Once a choker always a choker.

[Matthean]

Nick Fairley of Detroit Lions arrested on DUI charge, report says - ESPN (http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/7977231/nick-fairley-detroit-lions-arrested-dui-charge-report-says)

When the Lions drafted Fairley and people talked about their nightmare DL, I don't think this is what they were talking about.

[cadmus2166]

Nick Fairley of Detroit Lions arrested on DUI charge, report says - ESPN (http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/7977231/nick-fairley-detroit-lions-arrested-dui-charge-report-says)

When the Lions drafted Fairley and people talked about their nightmare DL, I don't think this is what they were talking about.

Agreed. I have been a life-long Lions fan, but Fairley and some of the other dumb-asses on the team are testing my patience. I really hope that instead of the usual slap on the wrist, the Lions go above and beyond and suspend this guy for the season, forcing him into rehab and counseling. He obviously needs a wake-up call.

[Blackadar]

Were those rules spelled out though? And I mean not in some "conversation" or something like that...but at the least in a memo or bulletin of some sort?

Yes. Teams were told no less than 6 different times.

[Logan]

Miami Dolphins will be on Hard Knocks this year...took a lot of convincing before someone finally agreed, apparently.

[bhlloy]

Because there's nothing better for the development of a project rookie QB than to have their mistakes plastered all over HBO. Go Dolphins!

[JediKooter]

FUCK YOU DOLPHINS!!!

[Suburban Rhythm]

I'll sleep much better tonight

Seven years later, Kordell retires a Steeler - Pittsburgh Post-Gazette (http://www.post-gazette.com/stories/sports/steelers/seven-years-later-slash-signs-off-as-a-steeler-638178/)

[Blackadar]

I'll sleep much better tonight

Seven years later, Kordell retires a Steeler - Pittsburgh Post-Gazette (http://www.post-gazette.com/stories/sports/steelers/seven-years-later-slash-signs-off-as-a-steeler-638178/)

I slept much better when he left the team and I no longer had to watch him self-destruct in important games. Sticking with Kordell was perhaps our biggest QB mistake between Bradshaw and Ben. Years of a great team were wasted due to lackluster QB production. Hell, he even made Tommy Maddox look good.

[Suburban Rhythm]

I slept much better when he left the team and I no longer had to watch him self-destruct in important games. Sticking with Kordell was perhaps our biggest QB mistake between Bradshaw and Ben. Years of a great team were wasted due to lackluster QB production. Hell, he even made Tommy Maddox look good.

Watch your mouth...only man to win the coveted XFL MVP award

[Ksyrup]

If he had just waited a couple more years, he might have been able to retire as a gay Steeler.

[Blackadar]

Watch your mouth...only man to win the coveted XFL MVP award

Hey, Maddox always get a "pass" from me because of that Cleveland playoff game - 367 yards, 3tds - in a come-from-behind victory.

Those postseason 3tds were more than Kordell Stewart had in his entire career. Of course, Kordell did manage to throw 3 ints in the AFC Championship game...both times he was in it. :banghead:

[Kodos]

Sticking with Kordell was perhaps our biggest QB mistake between Bradshaw and Ben.

Well, that and not drafting Marino when they had the chance. :cool:

[stevew]

FOFC legend Asher Allen retired today at age 24.

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/asher-allen-oft-concussed-vikings-cb-walks-away-210334377.html

[tucker rocky]

Justin Blackmon arrested for DUI in Oklahoma

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d8298b223/article/justin-blackmons-blood-alcohol-was-three-times-limit?module=HP11_headline_stack

http://static.nfl.com/static/content/catch_all/nfl_image/blackmon-120602-IA.jpg

[johnnyshaka]

Brian Banks gets a 2nd chance.

http://www.nwcn.com/news/157821785.html

[Lathum]

Schefter tweeting Ochocinco released by Pats

[tucker rocky]

Schefter tweeting Ochocinco released by Pats

....Ocho tweets, "Want to devote more time to my soccer career." <sarcasm>:lol:

[Raiders Army]

Justin Blackmon arrested for DUI in Oklahoma

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d8298b223/article/justin-blackmons-blood-alcohol-was-three-times-limit?module=HP11_headline_stack

http://static.nfl.com/static/content/catch_all/nfl_image/blackmon-120602-IA.jpg

Nice Oklahoma State colors. Maybe Alabama should change their colors to orange and white as well.

[Julio Riddols]

....Ocho tweets, "Want to devote more time to my soccer career." <sarcasm>:lol:

He'll have to change his name to Pelota Non Grata.

[Travis]

Brian Banks gets a 2nd chance.

http://www.nwcn.com/news/157821785.html

They were impressed enough with him today that they've invited him to their mini camp next week. Also saw that another team is having him in for a work out (San Diego I think) so he may end up with a few invites going forward.

Selfishly I'm hoping he gives it a shot in Seattle but really, no matter where he goes, hard not to root for the guy.

[Blackadar]

Every time one of these asshole agents talks about "there's no proof that anyone got injured" on the Saints bounty program, I fall more squarely on the Commish's side of this. Today it was Anthony Hargrove's agent mouthing off.

Anthony Hargrove's agent rips NFL's bounty evidence - ESPN (http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/8063263/anthony-hargrove-agent-rips-nfl-bounty-evidence)

Of course no one is going to say "yeah, I injured so-and-so because I got paid $10k to do so". First of all, they're paid far more than that every game. Secondly, if someone did admit it, they'd be subject to criminal and civil action. No one is dumb enough to say that they were motivated to injure another player because of the kitty. But the simple fact that:

A. It existed.
B. One of the potential rewards was for injuring other players.
C. Players and coaches contributed to it.
D. Players and coaches lied about it.

Is more than enough. Nothing else is required.

I'm starting to hope Hargrove, Vilma and Co. blow out their ACLs and can never play again. Shut the fuck up and take your punishment.

[Matthean]

LT retired as a Charger.

[Blackadar]

LT was a class act and a helluva football player.

[Kodos]

Yep. Probably my favorite runningback since Terrell Davis.

[Blackadar]

And, of course, Vilma walked out of the hearing today.

Jonathan Vilma of New Orleans Saints leaves hearing, calls process unfair - ESPN (http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/8067010/jonathan-vilma-new-orleans-saints-leaves-hearing-calls-process-unfair)

Yep, let's not go to the NFL to discuss the case prior to the punishments, let's throw a tantrum when you do get punished, let's sue everyone in sight and let's walk out of the appeals hearing calling the process you approved just last year "unfair". No one will see through your sham attempts at obfuscation! Not at all!

Give the Steelers' players credit. They were the only team that wouldn't approve the CBA simply due to the disciplinary process. At least they had the balls to stand up then and say it wasn't right. But the Saints' players voted for it then, so shut up about it now.

[RendeR]

Wait no one posted about Ocho no show becoming a Dolphin?? Come on that's HOT news!



*snicker*

[Honolulu_Blue]

Justin Blackmon arrested for DUI in Oklahoma

Justin Blackmon's blood alcohol was three times limit - NFL.com (http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d8298b223/article/justin-blackmons-blood-alcohol-was-three-times-limit?module=HP11_headline_stack)

http://static.nfl.com/static/content/catch_all/nfl_image/blackmon-120602-IA.jpg

Why the long face, Justin?

Oh. You got busted for a DUI? Nevermind.

[bronconick]

And, of course, Vilma walked out of the hearing today.

Jonathan Vilma of New Orleans Saints leaves hearing, calls process unfair - ESPN (http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/8067010/jonathan-vilma-new-orleans-saints-leaves-hearing-calls-process-unfair)

Yep, let's not go to the NFL to discuss the case prior to the punishments, let's throw a tantrum when you do get punished, let's sue everyone in sight and let's walk out of the appeals hearing calling the process you approved just last year "unfair". No one will see through your sham attempts at obfuscation! Not at all!

Give the Steelers' players credit. They were the only team that wouldn't approve the CBA simply due to the disciplinary process. At least they had the balls to stand up then and say it wasn't right. But the Saints' players voted for it then, so shut up about it now.

Given that the released evidence last Friday included a blog post and newspaper article written months after the investigation concluded, I'm not sure I'd believe Goodell if he said the sky was blue. Apparently those billions the NFL is making is being used for time travel.

I hope it goes to court just so he has to release what he has and this wasn't him picking an object lesson to make it look like he gives two shits about player safety with a giant class action lawsuit over his head.

[gstelmack]

Given that the released evidence last Friday included a blog post and newspaper article written months after the investigation concluded, I'm not sure I'd believe Goodell if he said the sky was blue. Apparently those billions the NFL is making is being used for time travel.

I hope it goes to court just so he has to release what he has and this wasn't him picking an object lesson to make it look like he gives two shits about player safety with a giant class action lawsuit over his head.

Just play the Gregg Williams recording over and over, that ought to be plenty of evidence.

[Blackadar]

Given that the released evidence last Friday included a blog post and newspaper article written months after the investigation concluded, I'm not sure I'd believe Goodell if he said the sky was blue. Apparently those billions the NFL is making is being used for time travel.

I hope it goes to court just so he has to release what he has and this wasn't him picking an object lesson to make it look like he gives two shits about player safety with a giant class action lawsuit over his head.

I fucking hate Goodell. The QB on my team was suspended for 6 games (originally) based on an accusation with not even enough evidence for probable cause whereas other players drive drunk, kill people and don't get as many games. My team had the first player suspended for an action during the play in the last 20 years. It's ok if a Patriots player uses his head purposely like a torpedo, but shit if our guy doesn't sit for a week on a bang-bang play where the hit he put on the QB was legal 1/2 of a second earlier. Goodell is a fuck who I believe doesn't give two shits about the players and is absolutely making a big stink about the bounties to try to sway public opinion in advance of the concussion lawsuits.

That being said, the players haven't cooperated in the least. We know they lied. We know they refused to come to the NFL even after being asked before the punishment was handed down. We know the Saints players ratified the CBA. Now they're walking out of the appeals process less than an hour into the meeting. There hasn't been a Saints player yet who has categorically denied being part of the bounty program. Every denial has been along the lines of "prove that someone got hurt", "prove that someone got paid for injuring someone else", "prove that I put money in the system to get someone hurt", "we were just doing what the coaches told us to do" and so forth. It's all been a semantic dance and a whole lot of bullshit.

Fuck them for making me defend Goodell, but he's in the right here. The NFL doesn't want to reveal all of the evidence because that could hinder cooperation in future investigations. The players know this and that's why they're doing what they're doing rather than going through the system. They regret giving Goodell the power and they want to destroy the system. That's why there's all this semantic bullshit going on. They hope to change the appeals process in the CBA even after signing on to it.

My opinion is that if Vilma does go to court and the NFL has to reveal everything (and I believe they have enough on him), they should ban that fucker for life.

[RedKingGold]

Tell us how you feel. Really, don't hold anything back.

[Blackadar]

Tell us how you feel. Really, don't hold anything back.

Sorry RKG, I'm just getting rather annoyed with the semantic games these players are playing. If/when they decide to go to court, guys like Loomis, Payton and Williams are going to bury them (never mind the written proof which I believe exists). That's the showdown the NFL is trying to avoid, because if Vitt/Loomis/Payton/Williams have to testify, it will end their careers as no player would play for those guys again. But if they lie, they're out of the league. The NFL doesn't want to totally destroy the careers of these guys (though Williams is probably done in the NFL - expect to see him in college in a couple of years), but that's what is going to happen.

Because the players don't care and so that's the course of action they're undertaking. They believe that the NFL won't bring this to a head and ruin those careers, so they're playing chicken with Goodell on this. I bet if they had shut up and followed the process, all of their suspensions would have been cut in half. But no, they're willing to jeopardize the careers of their current and former bosses on a hunch the NFL will blink first. But the NFL won't - they never have and never will because there's too much money and power at stake.

That's why I'm so annoyed. I don't believe they're not guilty for one second and I firmly believe that they're trying to make this a power play. If someone was innocent, don't you think they'd have flown to NYC when Goodell was working on this to talk about it? Even just to say, "Hey, Roger, I wasn't involved in anything that rewarded injuries"? No, their tactic all along has been to stonewall and obfuscate - which is a dead giveaway regarding their involvement.

[Julio Riddols]

After watching Fujita work real hard to remember the script when he talked with the media, I tend to agree on his guilt.

[Julio Riddols]

I also pretty heartily disagree that this is going to cost these guys much in the way of future job opportunities or their ability to provide for their families. What is going to cost them is their being seen as litigious liars.

[gstelmack]

It's ok if a Patriots player uses his head purposely like a torpedo

Well, he did get a big fine and was cut.

[cuervo72]

Well, he did get a big fine and was cut.

And what of the one with the sweet SNF gig? :p

[oykib]

I still have a problem with a system that finds its way to give an equal punishment to the most culpable player and the head coach. How Vilma is getting twice as much time as the GM also bothers me.

This like in "A Few Good Men" if the two enlisted guys wound up with the same punishment as Jack Nicholson and Kiefer Sutherland.

[Blackadar]

I still have a problem with a system that finds its way to give an equal punishment to the most culpable player and the head coach. How Vilma is getting twice as much time as the GM also bothers me.

This like in "A Few Good Men" if the two enlisted guys wound up with the same punishment as Jack Nicholson and Kiefer Sutherland.

He's getting the same time as the coach and less time than the assistant coach. So your beef is that Loomis didn't get the same amount of time as all of those guys?

[Blackadar]

From Peter King this morning:

• The testimony from disgraced defensive coordinator Gregg Williams to the league, in which he said he knew the program "was rolling the dice with player safety and someone could have been maimed."
• The charge, from what the league said was a handwritten note from a Saints defensive coach, that the defense pledged $35,000 for a defender to knock Brett Favre out of the January 2010 NFC Championship Game -- including a $5,000 pledge to the kitty from current Saints interim coach Joe Vitt. (Vitt denies the charge.)
• The three sources the NFL claims to have who told league investigators linebacker Jonathan Vilma spurred the bounty on Favre by offering $10,000 himself during a night-before-the-game motivational speech by, as one of the sources said, "raising his hands, each of which held stacks of bills, that he had two 'five-stacks,''' to give to the player who knocked Favre from the game.
• The NFL Films-recorded quote from defensive lineman Anthony Hargrove, as first reported by SI in March, with Hargrove saying to defensive teammate Bobby McCray, "Give me my money,'' after Vitt told the team that Favre was out of the game with a leg injury. (Favre did return to the game without missing a play, but that wasn't apparent when Hargrove made his declaration to McCray.)
• The PowerPoint slide collected from a sweep of the Saints' computer system, from the night before the Saints' playoff loss at Seattle in January 2011, complete with a picture of TV bounty hunter Duane "Dog'' Chapman, that said, "Now is the time to do our job ... collect bounty $$$! No apologies! Let's go hunting!''
• The unending stream of evidence from Saints computers, which is going to create some very strange bedfellows inside the Saints' football facility ... seeing that the two-year sweep of the all Saints' e-mails and computer-generated PowerPoints was OK'd by owner Tom Benson, who helped seal the case against the four suspended players and three coaches and general manager Mickey Loomis by allowing forensics experts to search for incriminating electronic evidence against his employees.
• The ledger sheet from an October 2009 game that showed safety Roman Harper due $1,000 for a "cart-off'' of Giants running back Brandon Jacobs in the second quarter, forcing Jacobs to leave the field for several plays.

"Overwhelming evidence,'' White called what the league showed reporters in a 75-minute presentation.

Specious evidence, the attorney for Vilma said in the morning, when lawyer Peter Ginsberg and Vilma walked out of the proceedings. "There is no evidence, because there was no bounty system,'' he said.


Now does anyone believe the statement I've bolded? That Sean Payton, Joe Vitt, Micky Loomis, Tom Benson and Gregg Williams would just take their punishments without issue if there "was no bounty system". It's beyond belief.

[Thomkal]

Gregg Williams said the bounty program existed did he not? That's what bugs me about these players trying to deny it even existed when the guy who created it said it did exist.

[Blackadar]

Gregg Williams said the bounty program existed did he not? That's what bugs me about these players trying to deny it even existed when the guy who created it said it did exist.

Yep. And the guy took a possible lifetime suspension for it. He wouldn't do that if there was no bounty system.

[SirFozzie]

Yeah, the playrs are hoping to create a public outcry to get someone in to be an appeal from Goodell, but they have backed a losing horse here

Lord knows that I was on the players side during the strike, but man, you're denying the sky is blue here guys,. You've lost. Move on.

[DaddyTorgo]

From Peter King this morning:



Now does anyone believe the statement I've bolded? That Sean Payton, Joe Vitt, Micky Loomis, Tom Benson and Gregg Williams would just take their punishments without issue if there "was no bounty system". It's beyond belief.

That's some smoking-gun style evidence right there. Fuck all these players/coaches/executives. Kick them out for good.

[molson]

Sometimes you can win and trick everyone into thinking you're innocent just by attacking the process. I think that's the strategy here.

So few people are willing to just accept responsibility for mistakes, despite how much everyone respects them when they do. Even if you have a viable defense strategy, even if you have the lawyers, if even if you CAN fight it, for god's sake you don't always have to. Be a man.

[RomaGoth]

Hmmm. There was a time when I had respect for professional athletes (at least some of them). I actually believed that Drew Brees was intelligent. But after this ridiculous statement (http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/blog/eye-on-football/19382854/drew-brees-compares-existence-of-bounty-program-to-weapons-of-mass-destruction), I have my doubts.

Yes, getting paid to hurt other players is most definitely similar to finding nuclear weapons in a 3rd world country. :confused:

Why can't these guys just shut the fuck up already. Drew Brees, you sir are an idiot.

[jeff061]

What you don't remember when Saddam and baghdad bob all admitted to there being WMDs?

[Julio Riddols]

And then the top Iraqi suicide bombers involved all got suspended between 3 weeks and a year without bombs?

[RomaGoth]

And then the top Iraqi suicide bombers involved all got suspended between 3 weeks and a year without bombs?

Yep, although I would guess Bin Laden got the worse end of the deal in that suspension train...:cool:

[AlexB]

I would have thought the top suicide bombers couldn't have been suspended, only the rubbish ones?

[RomaGoth]

I would have thought the top suicide bombers couldn't have been suspended, only the rubbish ones?

Jonathan Vilma hates you.

[Logan]

Adam Schefter ‏@AdamSchefter

Suspended DT Anthony Hargrove claims the audio released Monday of him saying, "Bobby, give me my money," was not his voice.

Good luck with that.

[Blackadar]

Good luck with that.

Nah, those weren't my lips that were moving!

NFL Videos: NFL reveals video evidence of Saints' 'bounty' program (http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-network-total-access/09000d5d829f028c/NFL-reveals-video-evidence-of-Saints-Bounty-program?module=HP11_headline_stack)

[JonInMiddleGA]

Hargrove ain't exactly known as a brain surgeon

[RomaGoth]

Hargrove ain't exactly known as a brain surgeon

Actually....

School of Medicine at New Orleans (http://www.medschool.lsuhsc.edu/neuroscience/grad_programs.aspx)

http://www.medschool.lsuhsc.edu/neuroscience/images/NCE%20grad%20students%20at%20CADA%20lunch%202010.jpg

Foreground from left to right: Eric Knott, Zevie Davis,
Anthony Hargrove, Monica Ertel and Kris Sheets

:D

[oykib]

From Peter King this morning:



Now does anyone believe the statement I've bolded? That Sean Payton, Joe Vitt, Micky Loomis, Tom Benson and Gregg Williams would just take their punishments without issue if there "was no bounty system". It's beyond belief.

No. My problem is that any of the coaches/executives knew about the program, that their punishments should me more severe. The most severe punishments have to be at the top of the food chain. Either Payton or Loomis could have stopped the bounty system with a few words. Any player has to go against his coach, his organization and probably damage his teammates to stop it. He should have the courage to do it anyway. But you're asking a hell of a lot more from him.

There is also the secondary point that a top coach has a 30-40 year career in football. A top player has a 10-15 year career. A year for Payton is like two or three for Vilma.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Actually....

School of Medicine at New Orleans (http://www.medschool.lsuhsc.edu/neuroscience/grad_programs.aspx)


Foreground from left to right: Eric Knott, Zevie Davis,
Anthony Hargrove, Monica Ertel and Kris Sheets

:D

I can only assume he's there visiting friends (having been AI at Tech after one good season & then heading off to the NFL).

[gstelmack]

A top player has a 10-15 year career.

Unless they go into coaching...

[Lathum]

Actually....

School of Medicine at New Orleans (http://www.medschool.lsuhsc.edu/neuroscience/grad_programs.aspx)

http://www.medschool.lsuhsc.edu/neuroscience/images/NCE%20grad%20students%20at%20CADA%20lunch%202010.jpg

Foreground from left to right: Eric Knott, Zevie Davis,
Anthony Hargrove, Monica Ertel and Kris Sheets

:D

Well hello Monica Ertel.

[Grover]

Well hello Monica Ertel.

+1

[RomaGoth]

You're welcome for the next Hot or Not!

[oykib]

Unless they go into coaching...

That's a totally different career.

I see this as something akin to being given an unlawful order in the military. The soldier has the right and duty to refuse. If he's caught, he gets punished. However, modern societies have realized that the lion's share of the blame for soldiers carrying out unlawful orders lies with the superior that gave those instructions.

One could see Vilma as the sergeant in this scenario. He has more responsibility than the players beneath him. But he received those orders from those who bear more responsibility still. I suppose one could make the argument that Loomis is so far removed that even though he's ultimately responsible for the team, he had no intimate knowledge of what was going on. But Payton had have known. There's no way any player that participated should get more severe sanctions, or even as severe.

[Scoobz0202]

Hmmm. There was a time when I had respect for professional athletes (at least some of them). I actually believed that Drew Brees was intelligent. But after this ridiculous statement (http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/blog/eye-on-football/19382854/drew-brees-compares-existence-of-bounty-program-to-weapons-of-mass-destruction) , I have my doubts.

Yes, getting paid to hurt other players is most definitely similar to finding nuclear weapons in a 3rd world country. :confuse:
Why can't these guys just shut the fuck up already. Drew Brees, you sir are an idiot.

Im on my phone right now so i cant source this, but i recall Brees saying something in the past that had me questioning his intelligence. I could be wrong though. I think he is fairly conservative so it may have just been a personal belief that i disagreed with.

[gstelmack]

One could see Vilma as the sergeant in this scenario. He has more responsibility than the players beneath him. But he received those orders from those who bear more responsibility still. I suppose one could make the argument that Loomis is so far removed that even though he's ultimately responsible for the team, he had no intimate knowledge of what was going on. But Payton had have known. There's no way any player that participated should get more severe sanctions, or even as severe.

I think Vilma is a bit of a special case. His "I'll give $10K to whoever knocks Favre out" bit is like the Lieutenant saying "clear that village, I know there are civilians in there" and then the Sergeant (Vilma in your case) saying "let's just frag the whole place". That immediately ups his culpability in the whole thing.

And let's not forget that the primary driver, Williams, did in fact get a higher punishment. Vilma is being punished like the Captain who refused to stop the Lieutenant, not the Lieutenant in your analogy.

[Arles]

Interesting blog on ESPN.com about the Hargrove situation:

Hargrove alleges game-changing error - NFC North Blog - ESPN (http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcnorth/post/_/id/43046/anthony-hargrove-alleges-major-nfl-error)

Go ahead and watch for yourself. You can see Hargrove's face at the right of the screen, and it appears he is speaking to defensive end Bobby McCray, who is not in the picture. You can see Hargrove say, "Bobby," but then he is obscured.

Hargrove wouldn't say who uttered the words, "give me my money." In the frame, you can see defensive tackle Remi Ayodele lean over to defensive lineman Will Smith and say something, but his back is to the camera.

Hargrove implied he will take measures to prove it was another player's voice, presumably through voice recognition software, and added: "I stake my life on the fact that it is not me."

If, in fact, someone other than Hargrove said those words, then the league would have made two important mistakes in claiming the video as evidence against Hargrove. As we discussed Monday night, it doesn't make sense that he would have sought bounty payment for a hit on Favre by two other players (McCray and Ayodele). Hargrove was called in the second quarter for unnecessary roughness after a hit on Favre, but no injury was recorded.

Further, it adds to the list of questionable evidence against Hargrove that already includes a mischaracterized declaration and a heavily disputed assertion that he told a member of the Vikings about the bounty program.

Hargrove said Tuesday he has been the victim of a "sophisticated mugging" and added: "This, in my mind, brings everything into question. Everything."

The video is here:
NFL Videos: NFL reveals video evidence of Saints' 'bounty' program (http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-network-total-access/09000d5d829f028c/NFL-reveals-video-evidence-of-Saints-Bounty-program?module=HP11_headline_stack)

The clip in question is at the 4:30 mark. Seifert makes an interesting point. If you look at the context, it could very well be that Hargrove talking to Bobby McCray in a different conversation. But the "pay me my money" is actually coming from Remi Ayodele to Will Smith. This makes a little more sense as Hargrove wasn't even involved in the hit that hurt Favre - Ayodele was. It would be weird for a guy not involved in the play to come off the field and say "Pay me my money" right after it. We'll see how the league responds, but it seems like Ayodele should be the one suspended for this comment and not Hargrove if you look at the context.

[mckerney]

Percy Harvin is asking to be traded, sadly I can't say I blame him.

[Julio Riddols]

Cleveland and St. Louis have to be very interested in that.

[RomaGoth]

Percy Harvin is asking to be traded, sadly I can't say I blame him.

Cleveland and St. Louis have to be very interested in that.

I was going to say the NY Jets!

[Lathum]

San Francisco 49ers' Brandon Jacobs refills Joseph Armento's piggy bank - ESPN New York (http://espn.go.com/new-york/nfl/story/_/id/8080528/san-francisco-49ers-brandon-jacobs-refills-joseph-armento-piggy-bank)

[DaddyTorgo]

San Francisco 49ers' Brandon Jacobs refills Joseph Armento's piggy bank - ESPN New York (http://espn.go.com/new-york/nfl/story/_/id/8080528/san-francisco-49ers-brandon-jacobs-refills-joseph-armento-piggy-bank)

Yep - we were already lauding him over in the "thread for athletes who do nice things" thread.

Class move by Jacobs.

[Suburban Rhythm]

Ummmm....no thanks

Terrell Owens says he is being extorted over graphic photos | SI Tracking Blog – Tracking MLB, NBA, NFL, NHL, and NCAA On Twitter (http://tracking.si.com/2012/06/27/terrell-owens-says-he-is-being-extorted/?sct=nfl_t2_a10)

[Logan]

Isn't Owens completely broke?

[molson]

Isn't Owens completely broke?

I bet he's "celebrity/athlete broke" - "broke" for purposes of bankruptcy filings and taxes, but somehow managing to have some cash and nice stuff around still.

[Logan]

I bet he's "celebrity/athlete broke" - "broke" for purposes of bankruptcy filings and taxes, but somehow managing to have some cash and nice stuff around still.

I don't know. While I don't recall everything from it, his interview in GQ a few months back was pretty sad.

[RomaGoth]

Lions sign coach Jim Schwartz to multi-year contract extension. (http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/blog/eye-on-football/19447264/report-lions-jim-schwartz-agree-to-multi-year-contract-extension)

[stevew]

It's pretty crazy how you can more or less equate professional athletes with lottery winners in regards to being broke.

[Julio Riddols]

Yeah, it seems a little crazy how easy it sounds to not fall into that trap. You get a big ass signing bonus on your most recent deal, so why not get yourself a nice home to live in in a place you wouldn't mind being for the long term, then putting a big chunk of the remaining funds somewhere safe where it can grow? Use the rest to rent a nice house in the current city you play for, and that's that.

But then, I guess thinking about the situation and actually being in it might be a different story all together. I don't know how I would react to having a shit ton of money dumped in my lap, but I do know how I would like to react.

[Grover]

But then, I guess thinking about the situation and actually being in it might be a different story all together. I don't know how I would react to having a shit ton of money dumped in my lap, but I do know how I would like to react.

Make it raaaaaaaaaaaaaain!

[kingfc22]

Apparently Aldon Smith was at a party last night that saw him receive stab wounds and two other party goers were shot. All non-life threatening.

Why do athletes insist on hanging out with idiots?

[Radii]

Not sure what thread this is best for but hopefully our lawyerly types will enjoy:

Fred Davis, Attorney at Law: The Courtroom Transcripts | Local News | Washingtonian (http://www.washingtonian.com/blogs/capitalcomment/local-news/fred-davis-attorney-at-law-the-courtroom-transcripts.php)

Fred Davis and a female "celebrity broker" (or possibly "pimpette" according to the story) are having some sort of civil dispute and they're both representing themselves.

No idea wtf the context is but this is my favorite part:

Davis: But as it shows, you also have your hands on his genitals. I mean, why would you take a picture like that?

Chaka: I do not. Let’s look closely at the exhibit right here, Judge. Where is my hand placed in this exhibit?

Judge: I don’t answer questions, Ms. Chaka.

Chaka: Oh, sorry.

Judge: The witness does.


That judge must be having a great time.

[stevew]

I thought the interpretation of Brees franchise tag was interesting. I suppose it is rare a franchise player would be tagged by two different teams. It's a much bigger deal for non QBs, as I'd think a bump with the third tag would not happen for a position player

[JonInMiddleGA]

Cleveland DT Kiante Tripp arrested on burglary charge (http://onlineathens.com/sports/college-sports/2012-07-03/former-georgia-defensive-tackle-kiante-tripp-arrested)(made the local paper since he's a UGA alum)

[mckerney]

Adrian Peterson arrested for resisting arrest, a situation where I still can't comprehend how it can happen.

[gstelmack]

Adrian Peterson arrested for resisting arrest, a situation where I still can't comprehend how it can happen.

that Peterson was arrested at 2:30 a.m. at a downtown Houston nightclub in Bayou Place

How predictable was that part of it? Note to athletes: being at clubs in the wee hours of the morning is just asking for trouble.

[stevew]

Maybe this belongs in the NFL Burn Out thread, but I'm tired of every battle turning into court proceedings. I feel like the CBA was just signed, and that more or less people should just deal with it. Vilma and the other people crying need to just shut the fuck up.

[RainMaker]

Are they allowed to suspend players in Minnesota? I mean we already know they don't have to follow the steroid policy.

[stevew]

Seems out of character for Peterson to get arrested I think. Despite playing on one of the worst franchises in pro sports, he's very marketable and one of the faces of the league.
I'm pretty sure there's a dickhead cop involved in this process.

[Young Drachma]

Yeah, it seems a little crazy how easy it sounds to not fall into that trap. You get a big ass signing bonus on your most recent deal, so why not get yourself a nice home to live in in a place you wouldn't mind being for the long term, then putting a big chunk of the remaining funds somewhere safe where it can grow? Use the rest to rent a nice house in the current city you play for, and that's that.

But then, I guess thinking about the situation and actually being in it might be a different story all together. I don't know how I would react to having a shit ton of money dumped in my lap, but I do know how I would like to react.

A lot of these guys are subject to a lot of the same pressures as lottery winners in the sense that their families hound them for money, they might have a lot of kids (not necessarily a lottery winner trait) and then they're not exactly prepared for it (same as lottery) or have a family with many people who come to the situation well off.

Of course, for every one of these guys who blows it all, there are a large percentage who manage to do just fine after their careers are over. But yeah, it's easy for us who live our lives in more conventional ways to see it and make sense of it; but if you spent your whole life being trained (by parents or whoever else) to play a sport at the detrement of many of your other traits or personal development skills...then I can see where one might recede or have a hard time discerning the "right" investments from the "wrong" investments.

Hell, if people on Wall Street can't figure it out and they're supposed to be the best and brightest, it's no surprise that a bunch of athletes often have trouble keeping their shit straight.

The difference is, the Wall Street/C-suite types can work for many years and the athletes are pretty much done making their big money in as fast as it takes a comet to cross the sky and then that's it. TV doesn't pay what being on the field does.

It's not as if I have sympathy for them really, just it makes sense how it can happen.

[M GO BLUE!!!]

Are we sure it was the Adrian Peterson of the Vikings & not the one who used to play for da Bears?

[spleen1015]

Maybe I am ignorant and I don't know how the system works.

Drew Brees has said that he believes the Saints are low balling him on his new contract because he was involved in negotiating the new labor deal.

At the same time, he's not going to report to training camp with a new long term contract.

Um, Drew. You were involved in the negotiations. You agreed to the franchise tag rules. Aren't you being hypocritical by holding out and not following the rules you helped establish?

[stevew]

I think it would be awesome if he didn't report until the final 6 or 7 games. He isn't under contract right now, so he isn't hurting his team. Someone would have probably offered him a long term deal if the exclusive tag didn't exist. He did his time at a belie market salary. If I were him I would insist on the saints paying 25M a year in order to make up for not redoing his deal 2-3 years ago when he was obviously outperforming it. He was getting Kevin Kolb money FFS.

That being said, Brees is a fake douche.

[jbergey22]

Seems out of character for Peterson to get arrested I think. Despite playing on one of the worst franchises in pro sports, he's very marketable and one of the faces of the league.
I'm pretty sure there's a dickhead cop involved in this process.

Where does this come from?

They have made the playoffs 26 of the 50 years they have been in existence. 4 Super Bowls and numerous league championship games. Hardly one of the worst franchises in pro sports.

If you were talking popularity that doesnt hold any merit either as the Vikings fanbase is also one of the largest in the NFL basically because much of the Dakotas and Montana are Vikings fans as well.

Most Popular Sports/Teams by state - CBSSports.com (http://www.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/5814906/6561726)

NFL’s Most Popular Teams (http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/nfls-most-popular-teams/)

If you meant currently one of the worst teams in the NFL, Id agree.

[stevew]

I don't have enough time to detail everything, but their arrest record is shameful. They always seem to be 20-40M below the cap, maybe not lately. They almost blacked out playoff games. They play in a dump.

[jbergey22]

I don't have enough time to detail everything, but their arrest record is shameful. They always seem to be 20-40M below the cap, maybe not lately. They almost blacked out playoff games. They play in a dump.

At one time their arrest record was bad but they brought in that clueless Childress to clean that up. I dont see the salary cap as a problem because up until recently went after players they wanted. They werent wasting the money. And I agree that the metrodome is a dump but a new stadium is on the way. I mean the franchise has had its fair share of issues but they have done a good job of putting a winning product on the field most years and they did more than most teams would have to fix the arrest issues.

I guess Im not sure when a playoff game was almost blacked out. The Vikings dont have as many season ticket holders as a lot of teams but they sell out most of their games. Companies have had to purchase tickets to prevent blackouts before but the games will sell out by Sat or Sunday. NFL has a deadline of Thursday I believe where they want to blackout games.

[stevew]

Most importantly--

Your head coach was scalping tickets cause he was making less than public school administrators.

[jbergey22]

Most importantly--

Your head coach was scalping tickets cause he was making less than public school administrators.

Haha, Mike Tice....

[jbergey22]

Most importantly--

Your head coach was scalping tickets cause he was making less than public school administrators.


You should be more worried about that idiot Paul Alexander preaching to your fellow Pirates fans about how sabermetrics are stupid and the Pirates shouldnt trade Hammer because apparently they can afford to pay a relief pitcher 8m per year;)

So on my way to work this morning, I was listening to The Fan. Yes, I realize that this was probably my first mistake. However, coming off a good win yesterday and the first 4-game sweep at PNC Park in six years, I figured it would just be a nice way to hear some good "Go Bucs" talk. I was wrong. As a disclaimer, I must first say that I was not one of the callers. I am not simply trying to defend myself. One guy called in this morning and asked quite simply whether the Pirates might consider trading Joel Hanrahan at the deadline. Paul Alexander, quickly dismissed the idea and assured the caller that the Pirates weren't sellers anymore. A few minutes later, another guy called in and very calmly said that he thinks it might not be a terrible idea for the Pirates to try and move Hanrahan for another bat or a starting pitcher. Alexander started yelling about how it was a stupid idea. The guy jumped in and said that he actually had some stats that back up his point of view. Alexander said he didn't care what the guy's stats said, not just anybody can close. Not to be deterred, the caller jumped in again and pointed out that the Braves used 10 different closers during their 14 playoff appearances from '91-'05. Good point, right? Wrong. Because the Braves "only" won one World Series during that time. Apparently, a decade and a half of playoff baseball including five NL Pennants and one World Series title isn't good enough for Mr. Alexander. Alexander pointed to the Yankees' most recent dynasty and said that their string of WS titles proves that closers are important because Mariano Rivera was the closer the entire time. I see, Derek Jeter, Jorge Posada, Bernie Williams, Andy Pettite, Roger Clemens, Jason Giambi, Alex Rodriguez and the rest of the Yankees 200 million dollar payroll had nothing to do with it, it was all about Mo. Shame on me for not seeing that earlier.

Ill post this in the MLB thread. Doesnt need to be discussed here.

[mckerney]

At one time their arrest record was bad but they brought in that clueless Childress to clean that up. I dont see the salary cap as a problem because up until recently went after players they wanted. They werent wasting the money. And I agree that the metrodome is a dump but a new stadium is on the way. I mean the franchise has had its fair share of issues but they have done a good job of putting a winning product on the field most years and they did more than most teams would have to fix the arrest issues.

I guess Im not sure when a playoff game was almost blacked out. The Vikings dont have as many season ticket holders as a lot of teams but they sell out most of their games. Companies have had to purchase tickets to prevent blackouts before but the games will sell out by Sat or Sunday. NFL has a deadline of Thursday I believe where they want to blackout games.

The Wilfs have been terrible owners. Now that they have a stadium deal hopefully they'll be willing to put some effort into the team and hire real football people to be in charge of the team.

[Matthean]

50 funny fantasy football team names (http://network.yardbarker.com/nfl/article_external/backyard/50_funny_fantasy_football_team_names/11196388?refmod=backyard&refsrc=foxsports)

[RendeR]

Seems out of character for Peterson to get arrested I think. Despite playing on one of the worst franchises in pro sports, he's very marketable and one of the faces of the league.
I'm pretty sure there's a dickhead cop involved in this process.

This ^^

I don't have enough time to detail everything, but their arrest record is shameful. They always seem to be 20-40M below the cap, maybe not lately. They almost blacked out playoff games. They play in a dump.


Most importantly--

Your head coach was scalping tickets cause he was making less than public school administrators.


is not determined by these ^^



The vikings history is long and filled with honors and glorious seasons. Yes their RECENT history has been pretty god-awful but that still does not drop them to the depths of "worst franchises".


Just wait till the old fart in pittsburgh finally kicks off. You'll be subject to times like these as well (and yes I am awaiting such times with bated breath)

[jbergey22]

The Wilfs have been terrible owners. Now that they have a stadium deal hopefully they'll be willing to put some effort into the team and hire real football people to be in charge of the team.

Yeah, they like to talk a big game and they were very generous to buy the surrounding lots of the Metrodome to keep the tailgating alive and well but the franchise has certainly taken a step back lately.

I think Ziggy wants to win but he has no idea on how to do it.

[mckerney]

Yeah, they like to talk a big game and they were very generous to buy the surrounding lots of the Metrodome to keep the tailgating alive and well but the franchise has certainly taken a step back lately.

I think Ziggy wants to win but he has no idea on how to do it.

Their biggest problem is that they want to be the ones in charge of decision making on just about everything short of player personnel even though they're awful at it. What made them think Rick Spielman was worth hiring based on his time with the Bears and Dolphins, and then deserving of a promotion for building a team that had just gone 6-10 and 3-13 OS beyond me.

[Aylmar]

Just wait till the old fart in pittsburgh finally kicks off. You'll be subject to times like these as well (and yes I am awaiting such times with bated breath)

You mean the old fart who lives in Ireland and ceded control of the team to his son years ago, or some other old fart?

[jbergey22]

You mean the old fart who lives in Ireland and ceded control of the team to his son years ago, or some other old fart?


In any case the Steelers will have down years again as they have before just like the Cowboys have had them and the Patriots have had them. Kicking the Vikings franchise when they are down and forgetting about the strong history they have had is narrow minded.

I think that was the main point not directed at you.

[Aylmar]

In any case the Steelers will have down years again as they have before just like the Cowboys have had them and the Patriots have had them. Kicking the Vikings franchise when they are down and forgetting about the strong history they have had is narrow minded.

Of course they will. I didn't kick the Vikings franchise. I'll probably go see them live once they move to LA. ;-)

[jbergey22]

Of course they will. I didn't kick the Vikings franchise. I'll probably go see them live once they move to LA. ;-)

Haha, might be awhile. The new stadium will keep them in Minnesota for atleast 25 more years Id assume unless the deal falls apart.

[Aylmar]

Haha, might be awhile. The new stadium will keep them in Minnesota for atleast 25 more years Id assume unless the deal falls apart.

This is true. Who am I settling for then when it comes to local tickets? The Jags? Rams? Kinda hope the deal falls apart in that case....

[jbergey22]

This is true. Who am I settling for then when it comes to local tickets? The Jags? Rams? Kinda hope the deal falls apart in that case....

Yeah, Id choose option C. Expansion team.

[Logan]

D.J. Williams Just Kept Giving The NFL Non-Human Urine Samples (http://deadspin.com/5925486/)

[bhlloy]

This news just makes me even more outraged about Barry Bonds and Roger Clemens. Baseball is tainted! PUBLIC OUTRAGE!

[Logan]

Cleveland used a 2013 2nd round pick on Baylor WR Josh Gordon in the Supplemental Draft held today. No other players went.

[stevew]

He better be good to justify exercising the 34th pick next year.

[jbergey22]

Cleveland used a 2013 2nd round pick on Baylor WR Josh Gordon in the Supplemental Draft held today. No other players went.

I am trying to think of who that is. Was he hurt last year? I remember Wright, Williams and Reese but I cant recall any WR named Gordon last year that RG3 was throwing to.

[SackAttack]

[QUOTE=spleen1015;2686657Um, Drew. You were involved in the negotiations. You agreed to the franchise tag rules. Aren't you being hypocritical by holding out and not following the rules you helped establish?[/QUOTE]

There's a difference between "agreeing to the franchise tag rules" and "the franchise tag rules requiring the tagged player to sign the tender."

The former is true. I'm not aware of any provision of the CBA involving the latter.

[Logan]

I am trying to think of who that is. Was he hurt last year? I remember Wright, Williams and Reese but I cant recall any WR named Gordon last year that RG3 was throwing to.

Got kicked off the team for drug issues.

[RendeR]

I'm kinda shocked anyone was willing to gamble a 2nd rounder on Gordon. I definitely expected a 3rd, but a 2nd, that boy best pan out or CLeveland fans will ....well..shit....Nevermind.

[stevew]

Supposedly the Bills offered a 3rd and they had order priority over Cleveland

[kingfc22]

D.J. Williams Just Kept Giving The NFL Non-Human Urine Samples (http://deadspin.com/5925486/)

Well, that explains a lot.

[albionmoonlight]

Drew Brees signs with the Saints:

$100 million over 5 years. $40 in the first year. $60 guaranteed over the first three years.

[StLee]

Drew Brees signs with the Saints:

$100 million over 5 years. $40 in the first year. $60 guaranteed over the first three years.

I am . . . relieved.

[DataKing]

Matt Forte signs four-year deal with Chicago Bears - NFL.com (http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d82a952d4/article/matt-forte-signs-fouryear-deal-with-chicago-bears?module=HP11_headline_stack)

I'm glad that's over with.

[Coffee Warlord]

I'm glad it wasn't as outrageous as it coulda been.

[Logan]

Ray Rice got a new deal as well. $17.5MM guaranteed in year 1, $25MM over the first two years.

[M GO BLUE!!!]

Cliff Avril says no to 3 years, $30 mil, with $20 mil of it guaranteed.

Looking around Detroit, I think that guaranteed $20 mil could be better spent anyway. I'd explore trade options

[Matthean]

Lions got a lot of tough decisions coming in the next couple of years. It will be interesting to see how well they handle it.

[Lathum]

Dez Bryant of Dallas Cowboys arrested on domestic violence charge - ESPN Dallas (http://espn.go.com/dallas/nfl/story/_/id/8172124/dez-bryant-dallas-cowboys-arrested-domestic-violence-charge)

[stevew]

Dez Bryant choked a whore