Survivor: Cagayan (Spoilers ahead!)

[General Mike]

And we're back! 2 hour premiere tonight. Special celebrity contestants this season are former NBA star Cliff Robinson and Miami Marlins president David Samson.

[Neon_Chaos]

This is the 3rd (4th)? Consecutive Survivor the've done here in the Philippines. They've picked nice locations too... Siargao, Surigao, Cagayan.

[General Mike]

Nuclear engineer and can't even do a puzzle.

Worthless.

[Maple Leafs]

So Garrett has to go down in the "worst players of all-time" discussion, no?

[Lathum]

So Garrett has to go down in the "worst players of all-time" discussion, no?

He was an idiot and a bitch, but if I was him I would have thought I was safe as well. How do you keep someone who has cost you a challange, then dumps all your food onto the fire.

[ntndeacon]

Does it seem like all the brains are too busy scheming for the future to realize that the short game has merit as well. If you go into the merge with low numbers...odss are you are out.

[Alan T]

The brains team seem to be lacking two very important aspects of Survivor..

1) The coordination (strength?) to do well in any sort of physical challenge..
2) The social aspect of the game that is needed

I don't honestly know what they are trying to accomplish but that tribe is one huge train wreck.

[larrymcg421]

To me, the big flaw was Garrett and Spencer trading a 4 person alliance for a 3 person alliance.

[Suicane75]

I think this season has some real good potential. I'm sure some of the louder personalities will veer into the annoying category but the cast from top to bottom looks real strong.

And dear god the boobies on that lady. That dumb, dumb, dumb lady.

[EagleFan]

The smart tribe is rather stupid.

[Draft Dodger]

So Garrett has to go down in the "worst players of all-time" discussion, no?

absolutely. and you could still make this argument even if you ignore him leaving the idol in his pocket (actually, back at camp). I cannot believe this guy makes a living playing poker, as he exhibited none of the skills a good poker player should have. Amazingly, as historically bad a he was, he wasn't even the worst player on the team.

Seems like every season we see people make the same mistake - playing the game too hard out of the box. IMO your first week on the island should be spent cautiously. you can't win the game with a bold move early, but you can certainly lose it. Garret and David both learned that. Well, David did. I'm not sure Garret has the capacity to learn anything

[Draft Dodger]

Dola,
I couldn't remember the name of the dude cop, but I told myself it had to be Tony or Vinny or Joey or something. Nailed that one

[Draft Dodger]

Double Dola,
It can't be a coincidence that "Morgan" and "mammary" start with the same letter. Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

[FBPro]

Double Dola,
It can't be a coincidence that "Morgan" and "mammary" start with the same letter. Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

+1

[B & B]

This is the only 'reality' show I watch. Pretty good track record of picking winners and my horse in this season is gonna be Sarah, the female cop.

[General Mike]

absolutely. and you could still make this argument even if you ignore him leaving the idol in his pocket (actually, back at camp). I cannot believe this guy makes a living playing poker, as he exhibited none of the skills a good poker player should have. Amazingly, as historically bad a he was, he wasn't even the worst player on the team.

Seems like every season we see people make the same mistake - playing the game too hard out of the box. IMO your first week on the island should be spent cautiously. you can't win the game with a bold move early, but you can certainly lose it. Garret and David both learned that. Well, David did. I'm not sure Garret has the capacity to learn anything

I think a better question is can David take what he learned in 3 days of Survivor to the Miami Marlins.

[Alan T]

No comments about last night's great episode? :)

The Brawn tribe tried to throw a challenge to get rid of an asset so they wouldn't have to deal with him later down the road (and meanwhile would remove the numbers advantage they had over the other tribes).. yet they failed to throw the challenge..

The Brains couldn't even win the challenge even when another team was purposefully trying to throw it. And when going to tribal council, seemed to be considering getting rid of their only member that had any chance of getting them anywhere near being able to compete in anything in favor of keeping the worst Survivor player in history, who also had thrown out most of their rice in a fit of rage.

Meanwhile the beauty tribe had a stimulating conversation on how Hen Eggs are made...

So many funny moments last night, I feel ashamed for watching it :)

[Lathum]

yeah, was an entertaining episode. The brains tribe has to go down as the worst in history. I think they are even worse than the tribe that lost every challange.

[Kodos]

I thought the "Rack Themselves" challenge was a little sad though.

[Mota]

I don't know how they are the brains tribe. Just from listening to them talk for 30 seconds, you often know if a person is smart or not. These people for the most part sound like morons. They must be book smart.

[CleBrownsfan]

They must be book smart.

Bingo - I know several "book smart" people that have ZERO social/common sense skills.

On the other spectrum - my father-in-law isn't very book smart but has done very well for himself (owns two businesses).

I still think the guy on the Brains side (forget his name) is a pretty good player. I can see him doing pretty well once the merger hits next week.

[Kodos]

Wish they'd do a Survivor: Extinction season with no mergers.

[Draft Dodger]

I said above that Garrett was one of the worst players in Survivor history, but wasn't even the worst on his team. I do not know what is more amazing - that J'Tia was completely inept at ALL aspects of the game or that they were seriously considering keeping her. Stunning.

[EagleFan]

I am seriously getting sick of watching tribes that start picking off the strong members at the start of the game. If there is no one left on your tribe at the time of the merge you are screwed. You need the strong members early.

[EagleFan]

That Tony guy is annoying the hell out of me. Another thing that I hate is people who immediately believe lies, like the girl he aligned with all because of one lie.

[Draft Dodger]

agree with all points EagleFan.

wish I could put my finger on who Tony reminds me of. It's really bugging me.

[EagleFan]

agree with all points EagleFan.

wish I could put my finger on who Tony reminds me of. It's really bugging me.

Glad I am not the only one. I keep thinking that I swear I have seen him, or someone EXACTLY like him before.

[Mota]

I am seriously getting sick of watching tribes that start picking off the strong members at the start of the game. If there is no one left on your tribe at the time of the merge you are screwed. You need the strong members early.

Yes, they'd need to do at least 2 seasons in a row with no merger to break that. It would make for some awkward moments with 1 on 1 competitions and having to sit 7 people, but I think it would help encourage keeping the stronger players rather than voting them out every time.

[21C]

Glad I am not the only one. I keep thinking that I swear I have seen him, or someone EXACTLY like him before.
He reminds me of Max Perlich (I had to look him up) who had recently been in Justified as Sammy Tonin.

I couldn't find a good pic of him.
http://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/SammyTonin_2869.jpg

[Draft Dodger]

Sammy Tonin. That is exactly it!

[larrymcg421]

Keeping the strong players makes sense if you're a strong player, but not if you're a weak player. I actually hate how Jeff always gets livid at tribes for getting rid of strong players. I also hate when the weak players just assume they'll be voted out and then start targeting each other instead of getting together to form a counter alliance.

The "extinction" scenario you guys are talking about sounds incredibly boring. The three tribal councils for the Brains were very exciting and made for great television. I have no idea why anyone would want to change that to a format where it wouldve been a predictable series of boots - J'Tia, Tasha, Kass.

[Maple Leafs]

I am seriously getting sick of watching tribes that start picking off the strong members at the start of the game.
I think players have figured out that no matter how contrived the initial setup it, they'll merge and/or shakeup the tribes within a few days. Might as well get rid of the strong guy by the third or fourth tribal, since there's a good chance you'll be up against him next time.

[General Mike]

I think players have figured out that no matter how contrived the initial setup it, they'll merge and/or shakeup the tribes within a few days. Might as well get rid of the strong guy by the third or fourth tribal, since there's a good chance you'll be up against him next time.

I don't disagree with that, but you never know what the producers of this show are going to do. The Palau season is the main example of that as they let the one tribe to completely die. I think them wanting to vote out Cliff early had more to do with other issues (not doing anything around camp) then him being an individual immunity threat down the line.

[saldana]

so this is not related to this season at all, but i was just watching an old, stupid movie on Netflix for background noise while i am working...Down Periscope with Kelsey Grammer

the whole time i was watching it, it was killing while i was trying to figure out who the helmsman was (his name in the movie was Spots).

it was driving me crazy that i couldnt figure out what else i had seen him in so when the credits came on, i actually read them.

Jonathan Penner.

i dont recall them ever saying anything during his season about him being a professional actor

Jonathan Penner - IMDb (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0672103/?ref_=nv_sr_1)

[Draft Dodger]

Jonathan Penner.

i dont recall them ever saying anything during his season about him being a professional actor


Really? Because I felt like he brought that up a LOT - especially when he was trying to bond with Lisa Welchel.

I happened to catch him on an Arrested Development rerun not too long after his Survivor run. And based on his IMDB listing, that's the only show he's been in that I'd ever watch

[saldana]

Really? Because I felt like he brought that up a LOT - especially when he was trying to bond with Lisa Welchel.

I happened to catch him on an Arrested Development rerun not too long after his Survivor run. And based on his IMDB listing, that's the only show he's been in that I'd ever watch

i remember him saying stuff hinting at it, but i didnt remember them ever saying it flat out, or having it at the bottom of the screen when they showed his name

[larrymcg421]

I knew him the first season he was on because I had seen him in The Last Supper, which is a hilarious political satire.

I don't remember if they mentioned it the first two seasons he was on, but in Philippines I remember him bringing it up to Lisa Whelchel as a way of relating to her.

[Draft Dodger]

that was a savvy move by Tony there to put the target on Jeremiah's back. can't say I would have thought of that. I honestly didn't think he'd last this long, but he's been very strong

[EagleFan]

Trish has to go. She is obnoxious. I want to stab an ice pick in my ears every time she talks.

[korme]

"Shame on you, Lindsie"

Really Trish? Why rub salt in the wounds?

[saldana]

Trish has to go. She is obnoxious. I want to stab an ice pick in my ears every time she talks.

i was trying to think if there had ever been a more annoying player than her...i am sure there has been, but they usually dont last this long

[Ragone]

Why eliminate cliff? I mean.. He's a strong player but
He's also rich.. Who is going to vote to give a rich man money
At the end? I'd risk taking him to the end on that premise alone..

[FrogMan]

that was a savvy move by Tony there to put the target on Jeremiah's back. can't say I would have thought of that. I honestly didn't think he'd last this long, but he's been very strong



as good as that move was, the chanting of "top 5 baby" was not as savvy...



FM

[Draft Dodger]

I know they played that up a ton, but I don't know that it was a total disaster. you need to be solid with your tribemates going into the alliance, and they definitely seem to be pretty tight right now.

[larrymcg421]

I know they played that up a ton, but I don't know that it was a total disaster. you need to be solid with your tribemates going into the alliance, and they definitely seem to be pretty tight right now.

Yeah, they need to be tight, but they also need a majority. They are now down 6-5 unless they can swing Sarah back and they just made that so much harder. If Sarah votes with the Brains, then "Top Five" could be a game changing blunder.

[EagleFan]

Yeah, they need to be tight, but they also need a majority. They are now down 6-5 unless they can swing Sarah back and they just made that so much harder. If Sarah votes with the Brains, then "Top Five" could be a game changing blunder.

Problem is that she doesn't seem that bright and will probably end up following his next lie to her.

[saldana]

Problem is that she doesn't seem that bright and will probably end up following his next lie to her.

yeah...she kind of exudes stupid...every time she talks, all i can think is.."this is why people think cops are dumb"

[larrymcg421]

Sarah might still jump back to Tony, but I'd say she was 100% to do that before the "Top 5" comment. The comment gained nothing, since it could've been done back at camp if it was for unity purposes. They might survive in spite of that, but that doesn't make it a good decision.

[EagleFan]

Sarah might still jump back to Tony, but I'd say she was 100% to do that before the "Top 5" comment. The comment gained nothing, since it could've been done back at camp if it was for unity purposes. They might survive in spite of that, but that doesn't make it a good decision.

I don't think the top 5 comment was that bad of a play when thinking about it.

Now the beauty left overs on the other tribe aren't going to trust the ones from the 'Top 5' and he will easily convince Sarah to rejoin him. I hope there will be much more going on around camp as I feel the game could get very boring for a while if she falls in line and they start picking off the others one by one.

[larrymcg421]

Some really bad Survivor play this week, but it made for an entertaining episode.

Kass' performance tonight is dumber than all of J'Tia's combined. She pissed off the swing vote they needed to stay in the majority and didn't seem to understand why Tasha was trying to comfort Sarah. Then, she flipped from an alliance where she had a clear path to the final three to one where she will be 6th out of 6 and pissed off most of the jury even if she somehow does make it to the final three.

Sarah overplayed her role as the swing vote to an obnoxious degree. Also, if she wanted Tony out, she should've made him think she was definitely on his side instead of making him think he needed to scramble.

LJ: Why would you play your idol back on Tony, who they clearly weren't voting for?

[EagleFan]

I missed everything but the vote. WTF was kas thinking?

[Lathum]

Some really bad Survivor play this week, but it made for an entertaining episode.

Kass' performance tonight is dumber than all of J'Tia's combined. She pissed off the swing vote they needed to stay in the majority and didn't seem to understand why Tasha was trying to comfort Sarah. Then, she flipped from an alliance where she had a clear path to the final three to one where she will be 6th out of 6 and pissed off most of the jury even if she somehow does make it to the final three.

Sarah overplayed her role as the swing vote to an obnoxious degree. Also, if she wanted Tony out, she should've made him think she was definitely on his side instead of making him think he needed to scramble.

LJ: Why would you play your idol back on Tony, who they clearly weren't voting for?

I have the exact same thoughts on Kas. Just an unbelievably stupid play. I love how Spencer called her out.

[EagleFan]

I have the exact same thoughts on Kas. Just an unbelievably stupid play. I love how Spencer called her out.

I just don't understand it. She is in a solid block of 3 that is in a larger set of 6 which have the numbers. They should be able to pick everyone off until they are the final 3 if they played it right.

Going with the other group the only chance she has is being a tag along brought to the end because she has made enemies by her play and won't get votes. If not she is 6th.

Granted it's still a long way to go but seems like a really bad play.

[Maple Leafs]

That was an all-time great episode if the main appeal of the show for you is hate-watching certain players.

You had the "overplays her hand and gets blindsided" girl, the "slides right in as the new idiot to root against" girl, and not one but two "thinks they're so smart for playing their idol but actually end up wasting it" guys.

Good times.

[kingfc22]

Why did Lee get to wear those special foot shoes during the immunity challenge while everyone else was barefoot? Thought that was odd

[saldana]

Why did Lee get to wear those special foot shoes during the immunity challenge while everyone else was barefoot? Thought that was odd

i think everyone always has the option of wearing their shoes in challenges like that, but he was the only one that decided to keep them on, and they just happened to be ones with toes...pretty smart of him IMO

[Kodos]

Kass definitely has issues with things not being done her way. Sarah should have definitively picked one side or the other. Wavering just pisses everyone off. Spencer seems to be the only likable person on the show this season.

[saldana]

Kass definitely has issues with things not being done her way. Sarah should have definitively picked one side or the other. Wavering just pisses everyone off. Spencer seems to be the only likable person on the show this season.

morgan is very likable (very likeable)

[Kodos]

Bah. Fakes.

[Suicane75]

Bah. Fakes.

lolno

[FBPro]

morgan is very likable (very likeable)

Why yes she is and pleasant to look at as well......kinda underrated as a player in the game too.

[Draft Dodger]

they are extremely distracting. there is no way I'd ever be able to look into her eyes if I met her in person. I can't believe I'm saying this, but I'd even say they are too big.

[Suicane75]

lolno

[Autumn]

That was a fantastic episode. Every season I'm surprised again to see how people let personal issues get between them and $1 million. Was Sarah annoying? Sure. But therefore you use that to get her voted out first when it comes to narrowing down the six. You don't vote her now. For such a "brain" Kass is playing emotionally and that just doesn't work.

That tribal council was just a series of "oh shits." I had to pause the show when Tony revealed he had an idol before they voted. Then I thought, oh okay, they think he's lying, this might be a good move, but then he pulls it out and shows it to them. Oh man. From that to the scramble to change the vote then LJ pulling out his, then the smart swap to Jefra, all to end with Kass's vote. I can't remember a more entertaining council.

[Autumn]

Early in the show I thought Tony was crafty enough to get far, but he seems to have instantly switched over to being way too buddy buddy with his tribe. Odd.

I think Tasha has a really good shot. She seems to get the game.

At this point I think Kass has to try to ally with Trish and Jefra. if I'm here, those are the two I want to get to final three with, and both are emotional enough to probably make a poor choice of an alliance with her. It will be interesting to see what people do this next week now that they're broken up into some clumps. I imagine some frantic moves.

[Autumn]

Woo might have saved himself, unwittingly, with that immunity challenge. But I'm not sure I would have won it if I were him, he's got a target painted on him now.

[Autumn]

they are extremely distracting. there is no way I'd ever be able to look into her eyes if I met her in person. I can't believe I'm saying this, but I'd even say they are too big.

+1

She's actually got a cute face when she covers up a bit and pulls her hair back. I think she looks much better like that. I thought Alexis was more of a looker overall.

[FBPro]

they are extremely distracting. there is no way I'd ever be able to look into her eyes if I met her in person. I can't believe I'm saying this, but I'd even say they are too big.

Uh, say what? Not IMHO but to each his own.

[larrymcg421]

I think Tasha has a really good shot. She seems to get the game.


Huh? Tasha has no shot right now unless Kass flips back, which would make even less sense than her initial flip.

[Autumn]

Numbers wise, Tasha is in a bad spot. I'm talking just about who has a head in the game without a target on her back.

I don't think the rest of the crowd is smart enough to assume the brain tribe is just going to get whittled down. Someone will do some stupid stuff. They always do.

To me Tasha and LJ appear to be the ones who get the game the most, but LJ stands out for being a physical player. If Tasha can make the rihgt moves I wouldn't be surprised to see her at the end.

[Scarecrow]

I'm seriously rooting for a final of:

Kass
Tony
Woo

[Dutch]

Kas is playing a very unorthodox strategy....doubtful that she can survive to the end like this.

[Bisbo]

Kas is playing a very unorthodox strategy....doubtful that she can survive to the end like this.

Yes, her "strategy" is making dumb-ass moves, then trying to claim they were strategic after the fact.

[EagleFan]

Looks like next week should be a good one (of course I've been disappointed by believing previews before).

[Lathum]

I missed everything but the vote. WTF was kas thinking?

Kas is playing a very unorthodox strategy....doubtful that she can survive to the end like this.

I just think she is an idiot.

How she can't see that she is 6/6 in her own alliance AND pissed off all the jury members is beyond me.

Maybe she thinks that others will take her to the finale based off the fact that she won't get votes, but that strategy never works since if you do make the finals, you still get no votes.

[EagleFan]

I just think she is an idiot.

How she can't see that she is 6/6 in her own alliance AND pissed off all the jury members is beyond me.

Maybe she thinks that others will take her to the finale based off the fact that she won't get votes, but that strategy never works since if you do make the finals, you still get no votes.

I don't know why she didn't flop back, telling them that she just wanted to get rid of Sarah the previous tribal and that was the only reason she flipped. She went from a very strong chance at final 3 to 6th.

Hopefully Tony goes into super paranoid mode next week and things blow up for another fun tribal.

[Suicane75]

The more I think about it, the more I'm liking Kasses strategy. Yes she's a target right now, but there is a lot of time left in this game and the alpha males, as indicated by the preview for next week, are going to start trying to pick each other off. She can hang back for a week or two, let Tony and another guy go into meltdown mode and assemble her alliance as the numbers dwindle. I think she's already got Jeffra in mind to take to the final 3. The hard part for her is getting rid of Spencer now that he has an idol. If she can take 2 uninspiring players with her to the final 3 she's got a much better chance to win than anyone is giving her credit for.

[LloydLungs]

If she can take 2 uninspiring players with her to the final 3 she's got a much better chance to win than anyone is giving her credit for.

I can see where Kass is going with her strategy, but if she wants two uninspiring players next to her at the end, she just willingly got rid of one. Actually not sure if there are two left now that Morgan's gone. Jefra and... ?? Not sure who else left fits that bill. Trish maybe? She's got some personality issues but is also building a pretty decent case to make at the finals herself.

[Draft Dodger]

Trish's case would be?

just not seeing it

[larrymcg421]

Trish's case would be?

just not seeing it

I hate Trish, but she made the best move of the game so far in realizing that a) Sarah wouldn't flip and b) Kass would flip.

[larrymcg421]

The more I think about it, the more I'm liking Kasses strategy. Yes she's a target right now, but there is a lot of time left in this game and the alpha males, as indicated by the preview for next week, are going to start trying to pick each other off. She can hang back for a week or two, let Tony and another guy go into meltdown mode and assemble her alliance as the numbers dwindle. I think she's already got Jeffra in mind to take to the final 3. The hard part for her is getting rid of Spencer now that he has an idol. If she can take 2 uninspiring players with her to the final 3 she's got a much better chance to win than anyone is giving her credit for.

She's not playing with strategy. Her last two votes were based on how much she didn't like the person. If her goal is to get to the end with two uninspiring players, then she just voted out maybe the only player who she could beat in the final tribal council. Spencer, Tasha, Sarah, Morgan, and Jeremiah are 100% not voting for her.

[larrymcg421]

Great tribal council!

Ballsy move from Spencer to not play his idol.

Interesting power play from Tony. He got rid of a big competitor, but he may have exposed himself too much. Can he avoid blowback?

[Simbo Klice]

I wonder if Tony and Woo stick with the minority 3 now. I don't see the others accepting them back in.

[larrymcg421]

I wonder if Tony and Woo stick with the minority 3 now. I don't see the others accepting them back in.

Well the problem is right now they are a minority two no matter which way they go.

[Lathum]

I think it depends on who Tony goes with to the final 3 if he makes it that far.

[Autumn]

Yeah, tony's put himself in a very tough spot. Woo too. Will the other three take them back after that? Not particularly likely, but depends how much backbone Trish shows. However, the other three are not going to back Tony up. more in their favor to help the others vote out Tony and Woo.

If Kass is smart she'll get trish and Jeffra to align with her. that's a good duo for her to try to take to the end. Spencer and Tasha have to be worrying about getting to the end together though, so I think we'll see one of them trying to get clever.

[Autumn]

And we haven't seen anyone looking for the 'special' idol, no? Do we think that's gone now?

[Autumn]

And some great faces from the jury during council. Looks like Kass and Tony do not have friendly faces there at the moment.

[Autumn]

quaddola

I really thought LJ was a craftier player than that. Both he and woo shocked me with how easily they fell for Tony's lies. Do they not realize the game they're playing? When someone tells you something, you don't just swallow it. Amazing.

[EagleFan]

quaddola

I really thought LJ was a craftier player than that. Both he and woo shocked me with how easily they fell for Tony's lies. Do they not realize the game they're playing? When someone tells you something, you don't just swallow it. Amazing.

Don't we see that every season though?

[Autumn]

Yeah, I just had formed the opinion LJ was smarter than that. Guess not!

I must say Jeff's questions at tribal were masterful. Looking back LJ will realize he was basically telling him what was happening. "LJ, tell me how good you are at knowing how loyal and trustworthy someone is." "tony, what do you do for work ..." lol

[Autumn]

Well, I was disappointed by that tribal council. I had my hopes up when Jefra looked like she was going to swap, but then she wimped out. That's a bad move for her, I think. I was waiting for hte fallout this episode from Tony's move, but Trish was immediately like "oh I trust Tony, I forgive him," and surprisingly Kass wasn't interested in swapping.

What about Tony pulling out that idol and then trying to pretend he hadn't? On the one hand the guy's kind of a dunce, but on the other hand I have to give it to him for being one of the few really playing the game full out. I thought I was going to lose it when he built that spy shack.

[Lathum]

Well, I was disappointed by that tribal council. I had my hopes up when Jefra looked like she was going to swap, but then she wimped out. That's a bad move for her, I think. I was waiting for hte fallout this episode from Tony's move, but Trish was immediately like "oh I trust Tony, I forgive him," and surprisingly Kass wasn't interested in swapping.

What about Tony pulling out that idol and then trying to pretend he hadn't? On the one hand the guy's kind of a dunce, but on the other hand I have to give it to him for being one of the few really playing the game full out. I thought I was going to lose it when he built that spy shack.

He would have my vote

[Autumn]

Yeah, he's clearly the frontrunner, though a lot of hte jury doesn't like him. So if someone else wants to win they have to be able to lay claim to some sort of move they've made. that's why i think it was stupid for Jefra to wimp out. She could have said "I'm the one who got Tony out." what's she going to say now?

[Draft Dodger]

Tony is definitely playing a great game.

meanwhile, great call by Cass guessing that Spenser had the idol. If she hadn't guessed that way, Wu would be gone and it would be 4-4.

too bad the brains had such awful players at the beginning - Spenser and Tasha have been handcuffed pretty much from day one.

[Maple Leafs]

Tony having the "special" idol is kind of a suspense-killer, no? They've built the whole season around him, which usually set sup a "he'll get his" moment at some point, but having that idol basically makes him untouchable in the short-term.

I guess it's possible that he's dumb enough to reveal what the idol does, especially since he already showed it. That would set up a pretty obvious "split the vote" type move by everyone else.

[EagleFan]

Not sure why the group of three didn't try looking for that one.

[Alan T]

I normally don't like the idols that much but they can create some good strategy and suspense at times. Or fairly comic moments at other times... but this special idol I just really despise. I am afraid that it is going to take a little luster away from what so far has been a pretty good season.

[Autumn]

Yeah that idol seems a bit much. I wonder if everybody really stopped looking for it, or if they just didn't show us anyone else.

[EagleFan]

Yeah that idol seems a bit much. I wonder if everybody really stopped looking for it, or if they just didn't show us anyone else.

Hard to tell with the editing of that show.

If you believed the previews this past week you would have been expecting a major Tony meltdown but that never seemed to happen.

[Mota]

Also they made that fall from the tree a lot scarier in the preview than in the actual episode, I mean, it was 5 feet at the point where he actually fell?

Add me to the list of people that's not happy with the special idol. No risk in it's use, and that's what makes the idols exciting.

[EagleFan]

The only thing about the fall is that I figured it would be nothing since they basically showed you who fell. Usually if it is something that puts a person out of the game there is always a 'mystery' about the preview.

[EagleFan]

But I do agree, it was far from what it seemed in the preview.

[Racer]

Also they made that fall from the tree a lot scarier in the preview than in the actual episode, I mean, it was 5 feet at the point where he actually fell?

Add me to the list of people that's not happy with the special idol. No risk in it's use, and that's what makes the idols exciting.

Don't like the "special" idol either. I am fairly certain the idol had this power actually back in Survivor Cook Islands which in a way helped Yul walk to the finals. It may have had it in Survivor Panama as well but I'm not sure.

[EagleFan]

Don't like the "special" idol either. I am fairly certain the idol had this power actually back in Survivor Cook Islands which in a way helped Yul walk to the finals. It may have had it in Survivor Panama as well but I'm not sure.

I think that is the power it had the first couple times they used a hidden idol then they realized how overpowered it was.

[Simbo Klice]

I think I'm actually rooting for Tony from this point on. Even though he's a pathological liar, the moves he makes are strong, entertaining, and up until now have kept him at the top of the scrap heap.

[Draft Dodger]

at this point, it would be a pretty big upset if he doesn't make it to the final three.

however, he might have a tough time with the jury since he's screwed over most of them pretty hard

[Lathum]

I think I'm actually rooting for Tony from this point on. Even though he's a pathological liar, the moves he makes are strong, entertaining, and up until now have kept him at the top of the scrap heap.

He made his move at the perfect time. Even though Spencer was just trying to get in his head, I think once they got down to 5 the girls would have gone after him and Yuu. Now they can get to the final 4 2-2 and let the chips fall.

at this point, it would be a pretty big upset if he doesn't make it to the final three.

however, he might have a tough time with the jury since he's screwed over most of them pretty hard

He has but this group seems less spiteful than most and will appreciate the moves he made. I think Spence could pose a threat and would love to see them both in the final 3. Spence would, and should, get a ton of credit for surviving this far. He has been my favorite player to watch so far.

[FrogMan]

Spence would, and should, get a ton of credit for surviving this far. He has been my favorite player to watch so far.

ditto, I'm rooting pretty hard for Spencer. For the crappy team he got stuck with, he's done well so far.

FM

[Draft Dodger]

also have to give it up to Tass though, for winning all those challenges. would like to root for her, but she seems to have the personality of toast and a complete lack of game playing at all

[Lathum]

also have to give it up to Tass though, for winning all those challenges. would like to root for her, but she seems to have the personality of toast and a complete lack of game playing at all

Not bidding on the clue at the auction was stupid. She would have had a 2-1 with spencer if one of them had won immunity, which they did.

[larrymcg421]

Not bidding on the clue at the auction was stupid. She would have had a 2-1 with spencer if one of them had won immunity, which they did.

The last season that they would've seen is Caramoan and that food auction had both an immunity advantage and an idol clue. Not stupid at all for her to think that might happen again and if it did, she would've had no competition for it since she'd be the only person with $500 left.

[Lathum]

The last season that they would've seen is Caramoan and that food auction had both an immunity advantage and an idol clue. Not stupid at all for her to think that might happen again and if it did, she would've had no competition for it since she'd be the only person with $500 left.

I just think in their position its not worth the gamble. They increase their odds dramaticaly if one can get an idol, then they just need one to win the challange and they are both safe.

[Alan T]

I just think in their position its not worth the gamble. They increase their odds dramaticaly if one can get an idol, then they just need one to win the challange and they are both safe.


I think to some extent, you are able to say this with 20/20 hindsight. Thanks to editing, we do not know exactly how things go there, but as far as I can tell, there is no indication of how long the bidding will go for.

When you are in a case of 2 vs everyone else, Tony drawing out both of their full wallets on one item would be a win for him. Then pretty much anything else left would be all to the alliance for whatever price they wanted to pay. This could include more food or clues or whatever.

I personally think she made the right play, just did not work out for her.

[larrymcg421]

I just think in their position its not worth the gamble. They increase their odds dramaticaly if one can get an idol, then they just need one to win the challange and they are both safe.

But they didn't know it was the idol clue. Everyone thought it was the immunity advantage, even Tony. Tasha was actually waiting for an idol clue so they'd maximize their chances of getting both the advantage and the clue. I think you can only call her move stupid out of hindsight.

I'm pretty sure people would be calling Tasha stupid if she spent all her money to draw rocks and then another advantage popped up that neither her or Spencer could now afford.

[LloydLungs]

Man, Tony is playing about as hard as anyone's played Survivor. Probably he's overplaying, but the stupid drama-killing super-idol means he's already in the final 4. Still, I'm enjoying watching him play. He's like Russell Hantz if Russell was a happy person who wasn't horrible.

[Lathum]

He's like Russell Hantz if Russell was a happy person who wasn't horrible.

Good comparason.

You get the sense Hantz is a dick in real life. I think Tony is probably a pretty good dude.

[Autumn]

Except pretty damn paranoid. It kind of scares me that he is a cop. He is incredibly quick to get crazy.

[Autumn]

I like to watch how Tony is really playing the game, willing to go without food to get the advantage, despite being on top of the game. I'm surprised there is not more movement to getting rid of him. Kass and Trish have to realize they're in trouble now, but it's probably too late to deal wtih him. This week would have been the good spot to try to blindside him (even not knowing he has the special idol).

In entertainment purposes he is hte perfect combination of knowing how to play the game, but just crazy enough that he could shoot himself in the foot. Watching Tash and Spencer play him this episode was fun. But Trish and Kass have to realize one of them is done for in that alliance, right? And neither of them will win if they go to the finals with Tony (unless they're hoping the jury just hates him).

[saldana]

Except pretty damn paranoid. It kind of scares me that he is a cop. He is incredibly quick to get crazy.

goes with the job...imagine having a job where all day long, pretty one everyone you meet is lying to you...you get pretty cynical...couple that with no food and little sleep, and cynicism becomes paranoia

he is playing a really solid game, but i think he may have some issues with the jury...he has now back stabbed 3 of his own people that are sitting there...you never know if they will resent his play or respect it.

[Alan T]

At this point he pretty much has to double down on the backstabbing and hope that he can sell the "You may not like that I got you out, but I got you before you got me!" and convince the jury that no one else sitting next to him have done anything to deserve it, regardless of how likable they are.

For him to sell that, he probably needs to get rid of Spencer, possibly Tasha too, since she could sell herself on winning a ton of immunity challenges..

I think Kass is a good person for him to bring to the end, since he can simply say she doublecrossed half of the people there too, just like him but he did it better. I think the other one for him to bring to the end that makes sense would be Trish for the reasons that what she has done was more behind the scenes and others may not be aware of it.

[Draft Dodger]

yeah, I could definitely see a backlash similar to what we saw with coach a few seasons back. but then they had someone else competent could move their votes to. in the unlikely event that Spenser or Tasha make it to the final three, they could get votes, but I don't see any of the other players getting any votes except from LJ and the bitch cop

[saldana]

I think the other one for him to bring to the end that makes sense would be Trish for the reasons that what she has done was more behind the scenes and others may not be aware of it.

trish has done something behind the scenes? aside from convince Jeffra (which lets be honest, probably isnt that hard) not to turn on tony, what else has she done besides annoy me for 46 minutes every wednesday

[Alan T]

trish has done something behind the scenes? aside from convince Jeffra (which lets be honest, probably isnt that hard) not to turn on tony, what else has she done besides annoy me for 46 minutes every wednesday


I'm not sure that she has done much else. Sometimes it is tough to know what all happens in conversations that escapes the editing that we see. My impression was that she was the one that kept the girls with Tony for a few weeks longer. (actually benefiting Tony in the process).

Your response seems to indicate that you thought I was saying she was worthy of winning, which if that is how my messages read, then I am not being very clear. I absolutely don't think she has done enough to deserve it, and as I mentioned, I think she is the person Tony needs to bring to the end with him to win. I was simply saying, the stuff she had (how little or not) done likely won't sell well to the jury.

[saldana]

I'm not sure that she has done much else. Sometimes it is tough to know what all happens in conversations that escapes the editing that we see. My impression was that she was the one that kept the girls with Tony for a few weeks longer. (actually benefiting Tony in the process).

Your response seems to indicate that you thought I was saying she was worthy of winning, which if that is how my messages read, then I am not being very clear. I absolutely don't think she has done enough to deserve it, and as I mentioned, I think she is the person Tony needs to bring to the end with him to win. I was simply saying, the stuff she had (how little or not) done likely won't sell well to the jury.

i did think you were trying to say that she was worthy but others didnt know it because her actions werent known to everyone...my bad.

[Umbrella]

Tony can guarantee the final if he tells everyone about the special idol. They already know about the other idol. By telling everyone about the special idol, nobody would dare vote for him knowing it was a worthless vote.

The special idol is too powerful, and I hope this is something they get rid of next season.

[larrymcg421]

Tony can guarantee the final if he tells everyone about the special idol. They already know about the other idol. By telling everyone about the special idol, nobody would dare vote for him knowing it was a worthless vote.

The special idol is too powerful, and I hope this is something they get rid of next season.

He can't guarantee himself the final because the idols can't be played at the last normal tribal council. So he can guarantee himself F4 (or F3 if there's a F2 this season). He likely will need to win that last individual immunity to win the game.

[Autumn]

Oh good point, I had forgotten about that. He hasn't shown much at the immunity challenges yet, so I'm not sure how good of a shot he has there.

[Autumn]

Me rousing the thread again.

Quite a back and forth in this episode. Kass isn't necessarily wrong about hte jury and Tony--based on the looks we see in council, he may not have any votes over there. But I think Kass is probably mistaken in thinking that it's a good idea for *her* to bring Tony to the final with her. Unless it's a final two, I think anybody else they bring with them would get the vote over the two of them, if the voters are voting based on likability. If the jury votes on who's played the best game, you cant bring Tony with you. If they're voting on who they can stand, Kass has to be just under Tony on that jury, right? She's pissed off nearly as many people. If Woo, Trish or Spencer are there with Tony and Kass, I have to think any of those three get the likability vote. So probably a big mistake there by Kass.

I was a little surprised Tony was wise enough to keep that idol under wraps at council. I was not surprised that Kass goaded him into revealing his secret idol, lol

[Suicane75]

Kass has become infinitely more annoying than Tony at this point. The whole time they were arguing I was thinking about the reunion episode and how much crow she's gonna have to eat when she finds out he didn't say anything about her.

[Draft Dodger]

yeah, Kass is delusional. There may be backlash against Tony, but those votes definitely will not swing to her.

[EagleFan]

I can't see Kass beating Tony head to head.

They should have coached Woo better and told him to tell Tony that they were trying to get him to vote Tony out. That way he wouldn't have been as suspicious as what Woo said which made no sense.

Can't figure out how they are ending this? I see one show next Wednesday which will get them down to 4. The usual Sunday finish would be 2 pepole voted out which in this case would mean a final 2. I see the finale for TAR the following Sunday though. Another Wednesday episode (or Wendesdy finale) or a week and a half off before the normal Sunday finale?

[Racer]

I can't see Kass beating Tony head to head.

They should have coached Woo better and told him to tell Tony that they were trying to get him to vote Tony out. That way he wouldn't have been as suspicious as what Woo said which made no sense.

Can't figure out how they are ending this? I see one show next Wednesday which will get them down to 4. The usual Sunday finish would be 2 pepole voted out which in this case would mean a final 2. I see the finale for TAR the following Sunday though. Another Wednesday episode (or Wendesdy finale) or a week and a half off before the normal Sunday finale?

Season finale is on Wednesday March 21 this season.

[B & B]

Season finale is on Wednesday March 21 this season.

Oh shit doc, fire up the delorean!

[Maple Leafs]

I can't see Kass beating Tony head to head.
I can't stand her, but I'm terrified she's going to win based on how often they replayed Spencer's whole "Kass... no chance of winning" soundbite earlier in the season.

[Lathum]

Oh shit doc, fire up the delorean!

:D

[EagleFan]

Kas is starting to grow on me.

[EagleFan]

Surprising tribal.

Why didn't Jeff say this was the last time to use the idol? Hasn't he always said that?

[saldana]

I can't imagine they will let Tony use an idol to get to final tribal, but I also noticed Jeff didn't say anything...if Tony couldn't use it next week, then he screwed up...He could have given the normal one to trish

[larrymcg421]

Well if it's a Final 2 this season, which is what it looks like to me, then Tony can use it at the next tribal with 4 people left but not at the last one with 3 people left.

Also, Tony wouldn't have saved Trish with his idol because he actually voted for Trish. I'm not sure why he did that, but it was actually 4-1.

[EagleFan]

The preview on the channel guide says there is only one elimination and a final three. That might be pointing to one explosive final tribal.

[larrymcg421]

The preview on the channel guide says there is only one elimination and a final three. That might be pointing to one explosive final tribal.

Well if it is a final three, then I really hope he can't play his idol next week. It would make that idol an even worse idea if he can play it to get to the end. Then again, the last time they used this idol (Yul's season), the idol was still eligible at the Final 4 when it was a Final 3 going to the jury. I would really, really hate if that happens.

Thinking over the final three scenarios...

Spencer/Tony/Woo - Spencer wins
Spencer/Tony/Kass - Spencer wins
Spencer/Kass/Woo - Spencer wins (unanimously)
Tony/Kass/Woo - Tony wins

Tony has to get Spencer out.

[korme]

Kas is starting to grow on me.

Like a tumor

[Suicane75]

Half the time I want to punch Kass in the face, and the other half of the time I'm trying very hard to suppress a boner I don't want to get. It's like 8th grade English all over again.

[EagleFan]

Tony got on my nerves the most this past show, getting all pissy because someone was phasing the game against him. But then he makes the dumbest move and votes out a lock of an ally and someone that couldn't win. I think Kas may have won a couple votes recently with the way she is playing Tony. He is part of a solid two if he keeps Trish in the game.

[Alan T]

The only thing that I can think is that Tony is trying to base the final 3 by counting votes from the jury rather than the level of quality of his competition. Absolutely Trish wouldn't get any votes next to him, but I think he is worried that if he can't get Spencer out he needs more solid votes from the Jury and Trish likely will be a solid vote for him.

I think personally that you guys are right and he should try to keep Trish/Woo as his final 3, but that is the only thing that i can think could be the reason for voting for her.

[Lathum]

The only thing that I can think is that Tony is trying to base the final 3 by counting votes from the jury rather than the level of quality of his competition. Absolutely Trish wouldn't get any votes next to him, but I think he is worried that if he can't get Spencer out he needs more solid votes from the Jury and Trish likely will be a solid vote for him.

I think personally that you guys are right and he should try to keep Trish/Woo as his final 3, but that is the only thing that i can think could be the reason for voting for her.

Interesting thought

[larrymcg421]

In that case, he should've studied how nice Trish was to Spencer when she was going off on Kass. She seemed to respect Spencer's gameplay and didn't mind he was plotting against her. I don't think she's a definite vote for Tony, especially now that he voted her out.

[Alan T]

In that case, he should've studied how nice Trish was to Spencer when she was going off on Kass. She seemed to respect Spencer's gameplay and didn't mind he was plotting against her. I don't think she's a definite vote for Tony, especially now that he voted her out.


My assumption is that she does not know he voted her out. Those aren't revealed until after the season right?

Either way though, I still don't think he has enough people on the jury that "likes" him to try to win that way. So I still think his best path would be to have Spencer gone.

[larrymcg421]

My assumption is that she does not know he voted her out. Those aren't revealed until after the season right?

Either way though, I still don't think he has enough people on the jury that "likes" him to try to win that way. So I still think his best path would be to have Spencer gone.

Jeff will always read the votes in the most suspenseful way and reads all the votes that matter. So if the vote was 3-2, he would've read them to make it 2-2 and drum up the suspense for the final vote. He's never read them 3-1 when there's a 2nd vote out there for the other person. Of course she might not know that, but the next person who gets voted out could tell her about Tony's betrayal.

I don't think Tony has to worry about jury votes. If he's against Spencer, he loses. If he's not against Spencer, he wins.

As for Kass, what votes do people think she's getting? I mean, Spencer, Tasha, Sarah, Morgan, Jeremiah, and Trish are 100% not voting for her.

[larrymcg421]

Here's a promo that does answer the F3 vs. F2 question. Putting it in spoiler tags in case people don't want to know.

Looks like it's a final 2 based on this...

<iframe src="//www.youtube.com/embed/DJv1WEY4b_U" allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="315" width="560"></iframe>

In which case....

Spencer wins any of his head to head matchups. Tony beats Woo and Kass. If it's Woo vs. Kass, then it'd be a horrible ending to a great season and Woo would be one of the worst winners ever.

[korme]

Also if Tony gets Spencer out I'm pretty certain Spencer would give Tony his vote. Tony has had him on the ropes all season and he's very aware that he's played the best game

[Suicane75]

I REALLY wish they would make the rules clear to the viewer. It sucks not having any idea how many finalists there are & how long Tony has to use the Idol. I also hope they don't allow Tony to lie about how long he can use the special idol, that just seems unfair to his fellow players.

[Umbrella]

I REALLY wish they would make the rules clear to the viewer. It sucks not having any idea how many finalists there are & how long Tony has to use the Idol. I also hope they don't allow Tony to lie about how long he can use the special idol, that just seems unfair to his fellow players.

Exactly. My wife and I were confused on the rules this season, and I'm still not 100% sure when they can't use the idols any more.

[Maple Leafs]

I REALLY wish they would make the rules clear to the viewer. It sucks not having any idea how many finalists there are & how long Tony has to use the Idol. I also hope they don't allow Tony to lie about how long he can use the special idol, that just seems unfair to his fellow players.
The finalist thing is annoying, but they were pretty clear on the idol: he could only use it until the final five. He's just going to lie about it... which is actually pretty brilliant (and also another reason why this idol was a horrible idea that could have completely ruined the season).

But yeah, they're generally pretty horrible about the rules. Heck, we're almost 30 seasons in and we still have no idea what happens if the final jury ends in a tie vote.

[Maple Leafs]

Here's a question: Who's going to win the $100,000 prize for fan favorite (assuming they have it again)? It has to be Tony or Spencer, right?

[Lathum]

I would think Spencer. Given what he has had to work with he has played the best game I have seen in a long time.

[Umbrella]

I hope we get a Tony vs. Spencer final. It has been a long time since the two "best" players made it to the end.

I put "best" in quotes because I am of the belief that whoever wins is the best player for that season. Every season, the definition of "best" can be different.

[larrymcg421]

I would love to get a Tony vs. Spencer final, but I don't see how that's possible. There's no reason for either of them to take the other to the end.

[Bisbo]

Half the time I want to punch Kass in the face, and the other half of the time I'm trying very hard to suppress a boner I don't want to get. It's like 8th grade English all over again.

I agree, except change the 'punch in the face' percentage to 100, and the 'boner' percentage to 0.

[Racer]

Kass's game play reminds me quite a bit of Sandra's (the one two time winner) game play actually.

[larrymcg421]

Kass's game play reminds me quite a bit of Sandra's (the one two time winner) game play actually.

Not even close. Sandra was infinitely better at making friends with a majority of the jury.

[Draft Dodger]

Maybe she's counting on her skills as a lawyer to make an effective jury plea, but there isn't one person who would vote for Kass in a 3-way final.

[korme]

Here's a question: Who's going to win the $100,000 prize for fan favorite (assuming they have it again)? It has to be Tony or Spencer, right?

Without a doubt Woo.

[Dutch]

It should definitely be Woo as the most entertaining and least controversial player that lasted a long time.

[EagleFan]

Woo? Other than the show with the kids he hasn't shown anything than being Tony's lap dog.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Woo could win the $100,000 just off that one segment where he entertained the kids at the school. Most of the voters are female and could fall in love with a player doing something like that.

[larrymcg421]

1) For some reason (probably cost cutting), Survivor isn't doing the fan favorite anymore. Rob Cesternino is doing one from his blog.

2) If they were still doing it, there is no way Woo would get it. It would be either Tony or Spencer.

3) Cochran was just on Rob Cesternino's podcast and they talked about the possibility of Woo winning and made it sound more likely than I had previously considered.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Rob Cesternino is dong one

Alex, I'll take 'Typos With Some Shred Of Truth' for $1000.

[korme]

2) If they were still doing it, there is no way Woo would get it. It would be either Tony or Spencer.


I'd be curious to see who you watch Survivor with. Both of the girls I watch it with and my mom are all infatuated with Woo. He's the clear number 1 favorite.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

I'd be curious to see who you watch Survivor with. Both of the girls I watch it with and my mom are all infatuated with Woo. He's the clear number 1 favorite.

Same here. Woo's a clear #1 in my watching circles.

[Draft Dodger]

with us it's been Trish.

/not at all serious

[larrymcg421]

I'm not judging it just based on who I watch Survivor with (I realize my circle might not be representative), but the reaction each player has received online and the history of people who have won this award.

The likeable people who go on immunity runs or the strategic masterminds are the ones who've won this award. (Russell won it twice). Woo is a nice guy and I like him, but it takes much more than that to win fan favorite. As Eaglefan said, he's just been Tony's lapdog. Now I think he could win and it might be a great strategy to have been Tony's lapdog, but it's not the kind of strategy that gets the viewers to award fan favorite. For example, people HATED Natalie and the fact she beat Russell.

[Autumn]

Kass really blew it in that last tribal. She was smart to make Tony look like an ass in front of Woo and then everyone else, but then she went and made herself look like a bigger ass in council. If she could keep her mouth shut she could have helped her cause, but now she has a 0% chance of winning. I agree with what's being said: if Spencer makes it to a final three, he wins. Kass doesn't win no matter who she brings to the end. Tony and Woo still have a shot, but would have to get rid of Spencer.

I don't understand why Tony didn't play the idol on Trish. That seemed an obvious move once he saw Woo plotting.

[larrymcg421]

I don't understand why Tony didn't play the idol on Trish. That seemed an obvious move once he saw Woo plotting.

In Rob C's podcast with Cochran, they mention the idea that Tony might've been thinking jury votes and not only wanted Trish to be there to vote for him, but also to be an advocate for him back at Ponderosa.

[Umbrella]

I don't understand why Tony didn't play the idol on Trish. That seemed an obvious move once he saw Woo plotting.

This. I figured he could play the normal idol on Trish, and hold the special one in case something went wrong. Unless he wanted Trish on the jury for a vote. But even then, he could have still voted for Kass, and honestly be able to say that he didn't vote Trish out, to insure her vote. He obviously knew she was on the outs. I don't get what his thinking was there.

[Autumn]

It's so interesting how even players who get the game intellectually can get drawn into very emotional reactions. I think that's what make the show still interesting after all these years--once they're there, forced to live with these people for a month, it becomes difficult to not get sucked into it I think.

[Umbrella]

Plus, when you're starving and tired, it's a lot tougher to put your emotions aside and make the smart play. It's easy for us to see things, but we're not the ones out there dealing with it 24/7.

[Draft Dodger]

and we're also seeing 3 days compressed into 40 minutes. you never know all the stuff going on that doesn't make it into the final cut

[Scarecrow]

I'm seriously rooting for a final of:

Kass
Tony
Woo

Quoted a while ago...re-posting so that I'll jinx it.

[EagleFan]

Thought he was going to be the first person to pass out during a vote.

[EagleFan]

Interesting final tribal.

[EagleFan]

A little surprising based on how final seemed to go. Maybe Spencer swung the tide.

[Lathum]

I think people were always voting tony. They just want to take their shots.

[korme]

Funny that Kass is a lawyer because I feel that Spencer would make a hell of one.

[bhlloy]

Wow, what a terrible decision

[Suicane75]

It's a decision that's come up more than a few times when it gets down to the final 4 or 3 and as much as you want to rail on Woo, I don't think I even know for sure what I would do in that situation. Is the very definition of your character worth losing out on a million bucks.

[EagleFan]

But it's not a definition of your character. It's a game. To use another example, would the betrayal of an ally in a game like werewolf be considered the definition of character? :)

[B & B]

Was there a $100K fan favorite this season and did I miss it somehow?

[Kodos]

What happens in Survivor stays in Survivor.

[Thomkal]

Was there a $100K fan favorite this season and did I miss it somehow?

No there was not

[Maple Leafs]

In about five years, Woo's life is going to be either really fantastic or completely awful. I really don't see any middle ground.

[larrymcg421]

It's a decision that's come up more than a few times when it gets down to the final 4 or 3 and as much as you want to rail on Woo, I don't think I even know for sure what I would do in that situation. Is the very definition of your character worth losing out on a million bucks.

How is it about your character? Everyone agreed to play a game where the goal is to vote out someone else to win a million dollars. What Woo did is like falling down at the 1 yard line because you think the other team deserved to win more. And what's stupid about his whole "deserves to be there" is that it didn't pop up until three people were left. I mean, he was perfectly happy with carrying Kass further than people like Spencer and Tasha. He was happy with blindsiding LJ. His "character" in this game was doing whatever Tony told him to do, including the final tribal council.

[larrymcg421]

Was there a $100K fan favorite this season and did I miss it somehow?

Nope, but Rob Cesternino did a fan favorite vote on his podcast and Spencer won.

[Suicane75]

No, I completely get what ya'll are saying and I agree. I'm just saying that for whatever reason, at that moment, Woo feels like it's a choice between the easy way and the hard way. He obviously made the wrong decision but I sincerely believe, that he sincerely believes, that he wouldn't have been happy with himself if he had taken Kass.

And not that I think this factors at all into last nights finale because I don't think Woo was thinking about it all, but we've seen where someone perceived as a complete villain, who deserved to win the game by a landslide, lost.

And I don't think Woo lost the game by taking Tony, I think Woo lost the game by doing at final tribal exactly what he did all game long, nothing. When it came time to state his case he brought nothing except the honor stuff, and he clearly needed more.

On a completely different rant. Is it me or are the final tribals getting worse and worse? Seems to me that in the early seasons there were some real thought out discussions and debate, now it's just a myriad of unintelligent sound bites. I don't know if it's the editing or how it really goes down, but I usually expect a ton more from the final tribal than we get.

[Lathum]

I was a little surprised the let Spencer make that speech at the end endorsing Tony.

[larrymcg421]

I was a little surprised the let Spencer make that speech at the end endorsing Tony.

There was precedent for it. David made a similar speech for Boston Rob. And then in Russell's first season, Erik made that speech for Natalie, although he was arguing the opposite point.

[Lathum]

There was precedent for it. David made a similar speech for Boston Rob. And then in Russell's first season, Erik made that speech for Natalie, although he was arguing the opposite point.

Really? I have watched every season, I don't ever remember something so blatently endorsing another candidate, but I have killed a lot of brain cells over the years.

[Kodos]

I hope Spencer appears in a future show.

I think they should do a season with different final four groups from four seasons. People who really know how to play the game.

[larrymcg421]

Bad quality, but this is David's speech....

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/y0cp8XzGd24" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Look back on Erik's, it's not quite the same as he is addressing the players and not the jury, but his intent is the same.

[Maple Leafs]

Really? I have watched every season, I don't ever remember something so blatently endorsing another candidate, but I have killed a lot of brain cells over the years.
Well, there was the famous "Rat vs. Snake" speech from season one...

[Autumn]

I wondered too how much Jeff's questions at the final vote swayed Woo. Jeff came out and basically painted Tony's vote the time before as a vote of loyalty. I thought that was a bit of a reach given Tony's game, but you could see on Woo's face the impact it had on him. Woo clearly is a guy easily impressionable, and I wonder if that changed his mind at all to have it put in those terms.

[Kodos]

I think we all can be happy that Kass didn't win.

[Autumn]

What a crazy jury vote. I thought Trish had basically destroyed Tony's chances with her speech, I mean that was intense, especially coming on top of first Sarah asking him about the badge, LJ asking him about his wife and baby, then to close out with that. Tony looked destroyed emotionally (though I think he was right to finally own up to it and say 'yes' and maybe that's what saved him). But to follow that with Spencer's plea, it's interesting to wonder how much any of these things swayed voters or if they knew what they were going to do all along.

Tony certainly deserved the win, he showed on that last day how he could steer people, including Woo, who I think probably was seriously going to take Kass until Tony gave him that loyalty and integrity speech. Maybe it's just editing but I"d never heard Woo talk about that at all the whole game and suddenly it's his mantra? I think he just got played, he's just an impressionable guy, as we saw all game, who basically agrees with whoever gets to him last.

On the other hand, I feel like Woo probably feels good with his decision. Whereas I bet Kass is going to be eating herself up for years about how close she came. Spencer at least knows the reason he didn't get to the end is the others knew he would win.

[Autumn]

The real loser is Tony's friend, who got totally dissed for not being Tony's wife, lol.

[Autumn]

Props to Kass for those huge comebacks in the immunity challenges. That was amazing and played right into the brains vs. brawn thing they were going for this season.

[Lathum]

Looks like another Blood Vs Water for next year? We had storms that night and my Direct TV got dodgy wneh they were making the announcment.

[larrymcg421]

Looks like another Blood Vs Water for next year? We had storms that night and my Direct TV got dodgy wneh they were making the announcment.

Yep and it will be all newbies.

[Autumn]

I didn't watch the last blood and water, but it doesn't sound like an encouraging idea to me. Was that season any good?

[Alan T]

I didn't watch the last blood and water, but it doesn't sound like an encouraging idea to me. Was that season any good?


I thought it was one of the better ones in recent history

[Ironhead]

Watched all of the Ponderosa videos. The jury hated Kass so much. I have never seen someone so blatantly ignored by every single person upon their arrival to Ponderosa.

[Kodos]

She said so many nasty things about others this season.

[Autumn]

Yeah, tony was able to scheme and blindside yet still come across as likeable. Kass didn't seem to get that. giving Trish the finger after voting her out is not how you win a jury over. Surprising that she's the lawyer out of the bunch.

[Draft Dodger]

just got to watch the finale tonight. I thought Wu's decision to take Tony was okay, but he did a terrible job selling himself at the final tribal. I think he could have pulled it off if he had talked his game up a little bit.

[Mota]

Everybody plays the game for their own reason. Some people are playing to win. I do not believe that Woo was one of these people.
I think Tony definitely deserved to win so was happy with the result. It definitely points out one of the flaws in the game that by taking the best player to the finals with you is a mistake. Most people would choose to bring the goat and that's why we've had so many bad finales.

[kingfc22]

Tony clearly deserved the victory; however, I would have loved to see Tony and Spencer as the final two. I can't remember a season where the two best players made it to the final or let alone the final 4.

[Umbrella]

The goat situation is a big problem for survivor right now, and I'm not sure how to fix it. The problem is that finishing second is still worth 100K, and I feel like a lot of people are going in the game to finish second. Just be as unlikeable as possible, and let everyone drag you to the end for a near unanimous vote.

Here's an idea, which is probably terrible. Have a rule where if the final vote is unanimous, the loser is the winner. That way, you want to take someone you can beat, but not necessarily crush. Also, it could open up the possibility of people throwing a mercy vote to the loser so that the best player could win. If enough players do that, we could see a reversal, like Roy Jones in Korea. However, you would have to isolate the jury members from each other so there is no collusion.

I spend way too much time analyzing this stupid show.

[Kodos]

Change it so that you have to win your way into the final. Final challenge is live or die. Four men enter, two leave. No votes.

[Umbrella]

Change it so that you have to win your way into the final. Final challenge is live or die. Four men enter, two leave. No votes.

That's not a bad idea, but it does eliminate the social aspect of the game, which IMO is a big one. Sandra never won an individual challenge, yet she's a two time winner because she could always get people to vote for her at the end.

I'm sure smarter people than me have tried to fix this problem. The final three was a solution that worked initially, but not any more, as now people are trying to drag two goats to the end.

Maybe another solution is to get rid of the tribe shakeups. If you are dragging along goats, your tribe is going to be decimated. Players are now dumping threats at the beginning, knowing that a tribe switch will save them if things go bad. The problem with that is viewers don't like watching the same tribe lose week after week.

[Draft Dodger]

another problem is that too many goats don't realize they are goats.

[larrymcg421]

From Woo's interviews and interviews of other players, I believe Woo was trying to win and thought the honor and integrity schtick would buy him votes with a bitter jury.

Change it so that you have to win your way into the final. Final challenge is live or die. Four men enter, two leave. No votes.

This is way worse. You'd have MORE goats. The alliance leader would drag a bunch of weaklings to the end. Plus it overemphasizes the physical game.

[Umbrella]

another problem is that too many goats don't realize they are goats.

That is even sadder if it's true.

[Kodos]

From Woo's interviews and interviews of other players, I believe Woo was trying to win and thought the honor and integrity schtick would buy him votes with a bitter jury.



This is way worse. You'd have MORE goats. The alliance leader would drag a bunch of weaklings to the end. Plus it overemphasizes the physical game.

Players might adapt to it, but the first time through, it might work out well. Might have given us Spencer vs. Tony this season.

[larrymcg421]

I'm amazed that people would want to make changes after what was such a terrific season. Not only that, but this is the 4th season in a row that was really strong.

I mean, each time the Brains went to tribal it was very exciting and compelling. Why do we want to change it just so the weakest physical person gets voted out each time? Zzzzzzzz.

Yes, the two best players aren't going to be in the final two in Survivor. That's inherent in the way the game works, but I see that as something that makes Survivor fascinating. It's also why the finale usually has two eliminations, because that first one often is the deciding elimination. And even with that, there are surprises like Natalie beating Russell or Sandra pretending to be a goat and beating Parvati and Russell.

[saldana]

Plus it overemphasizes the physical game.

i thought a big problem with this season (which makes tony's ability to win even greater, imo) is that the physical game got completely removed...there were some stamina challenges, but it seemed like EVERY immunity challenge had some kind of a puzzle at the end...there was a distinct advantage for the smarter players...i think with the exception of the Woo win at the end, every individual immunity was won by a Brain member.

[larrymcg421]

Players might adapt to it, but the first time through, it might work out well. Might have given us Spencer vs. Tony this season.

Even if we assume they don't adapt to this rule and the season plays out the same, Kass won the F4 challenge, so it would've been her and whoever would've finished 2nd in this challenge.

[Umbrella]

I'm amazed that people would want to make changes after what was such a terrific season. Not only that, but this is the 4th season in a row that was really strong.

I mean, each time the Brains went to tribal it was very exciting and compelling. Why do we want to change it just so the weakest physical person gets voted out each time? Zzzzzzzz.

Yes, the two best players aren't going to be in the final two in Survivor. That's inherent in the way the game works, but I see that as something that makes Survivor fascinating. It's also why the finale usually has two eliminations, because that first one often is the deciding elimination. And even with that, there are surprises like Natalie beating Russell or Sandra pretending to be a goat and beating Parvati and Russell.

I think in general the seasons lately have been pretty good, but the finals have been anti-climatic. In the last five seasons, the second place finisher has averaged one vote. You have to go all the way back to the Fabio win to find a season where the final outcome was still in doubt.

And both of your examples use Russell, who was the perfect goat. A goat isn't always someone who sucks, it's someone who won't get any votes. His gameplay is perfect to finish second. He received a grand total of two votes in two final tribal councils.

The fact that the producers brought in Redemption Island shows that they are also concerned about this. Redemption Island isn't the answer IMO, but I haven't been able to come up with a better solution.

Who knows, maybe they should go back to the old days and see how everyone reacts. No idols, no tribal switching, no twists. I could see players overthinking this too much.

[Umbrella]

i thought a big problem with this season (which makes tony's ability to win even greater, imo) is that the physical game got completely removed...there were some stamina challenges, but it seemed like EVERY immunity challenge had some kind of a puzzle at the end...there was a distinct advantage for the smarter players...i think with the exception of the Woo win at the end, every individual immunity was won by a Brain member.

This. I understand they don't want the physically weak players to have no shot, but I think they should mix things up. Have strength challenges. Have endurance challenges. Have puzzle challenges. Mix it up and give everyone a chance to showcase their strengths. As it stands now, if you suck at puzzles, you will never win.

[Maple Leafs]

just got to watch the finale tonight. I thought Wu's decision to take Tony was okay, but he did a terrible job selling himself at the final tribal. I think he could have pulled it off if he had talked his game up a little bit.
Interesting. Am I the only one who went in to the final tribal assuming Tony had it wrapped up, then thought "Man, Woo is actually going to pull this off" during the questions?

I realize that's mostly editing, but they really had me thinking that Tony was going to lose.

[Maple Leafs]

The goat situation is a big problem for survivor right now, and I'm not sure how to fix it. The problem is that finishing second is still worth 100K, and I feel like a lot of people are going in the game to finish second.
But doesn't it go something like $1M / 100K / 50K/ and then a fairly gradual drop down to like $5K?

It would seem that under that sort of system, playing a strategy that gives you a good shot at second (but no chance of winning) seems insanely dumb.

[Autumn]

I was also struck by the preponderance of puzzles this season. That really sucked for Tony (not that it mattered) becuase he was pretty good at challenges, but couldn't solve a puzzle for anything. It also was striking how much untying there was this season. If you can't undo knots you were screwed.

I don't think there is anything I'd want to change about the setup -- the point of the show is the entire season, not just the last episode. The more clear the eventual winner is, the more people should be trying to get rid of them. If Tony was a shoo-in at the end (which he nearly was not) it's because he played well, and people failed to get rid of him when he could. That's what's entertaining about the show is it's all in the contestants' hands, yet they surprise you by not doing what they should.