The official NCAA tournament thread

[tarcone]

Iowa ran into a buzz saw. Total domination by the Zags.
I hope they kick UCLAs arse.

[Abe Sargent]

...but I don;t mind my team pulling away like that either!

[Abe Sargent]

If we make it back to teh Sweet Sixteen for the first time in a while, I'll be happy, even if we lose to the Kentucky-Naught 100-10.

[JPhillips]

Just looked at the bracket and it looks really easy for UK to get to the final. The worst they can do is WVU/ND/Oklahoma.

[Abe Sargent]

yay Morgantown!!

[Atocep]

Incredible job by Huggins getting WVU turned around. WVU has 6 players playing more than 12 minutes a game that weren't on the roster last season. No Aaron Harris. No Terry Henderson. 25 wins and a trip to the sweet 16.

I think it would difficult to find a coach that did a better job this year.

[Butter]

Tough loss for Dayton. UD had a 9 point lead in the second half, and were up 7 with under 10 minutes to go when Oklahoma just put the Flyers on defensive lockdown. We didn't score again until OU had a 6 point lead with under 2 minutes to play.

Rough way to go out, but really with essentially 6 scholarship players, making the round of 32 was an amazing accomplishment. Hopeful that UD can be a top-25 mainstay in the years to come.

[Kodos]

Yep. I was disappointed that UD went into a shooting slump down the stretch and lost. Still a good showing. I know there are a lot of IU fans thinking we should try to scoop up Archie Miller if the Stevens and Donovan things don't materialize.

[Butter]

Thanks, Kodos for at least following along even if it was only to scout your potential future coach... for selfish reasons, I hope that is not the case!

[Kodos]

Nah, I just plain like UD from my days when I lived in Dayton. Yes, I am a bit jealous of the coach (and would swap in a heartbeat), but I genuinely enjoy watching the Flyers do well. I've always been a fan of the underdog.

[ColtCrazy]

4 more chances for Kentucky to lose. I really hope someone pulls it off.

[Kodos]

So say we all.

[NobodyHere]

4 more chances for Kentucky to lose. I really hope someone pulls it off.

If it's any consolation to you, most Kentucky fans have to suffer living in Kentucky. I mean what else do they have besides fried chicken and college basketball?

[Easy Mac]

If it's any consolation to you, most Kentucky fans have to suffer living in Kentucky. I mean what else do they have besides fried chicken and college basketball?

booze and Ashley Judd

[Lathum]

I mean what else do they have besides fried chicken and college basketball?

Teeth would not be the answer to this question

[NobodyHere]

:DTeeth would not be the answer to this question

[Logan]

And they don't even really have Louisville Slugger anymore.

[tarcone]

Need to find someone to root for.
Sparty on the list.

[Arles]

The last three years the Big 12 has been rated higher than the Pac 12 each year. Yet, in all 3 years combined, 8 of the 15 Pac 12 teams have made the sweet 16 while just 5 of the 19 Big 12 teams have. At what point does the "fade the big 12 and ride the Pac 12" bracket plan go from a trend to a legit strategy? :D

[Kodos]

Need to find someone to root for.
Sparty on the list.

Yep. MSU has become my second-favorite Big Ten team in both football and basketball.

[Vince, Pt. II]

Wichita State?

[Kodos]

Definitely.

[Ragone]

Obviously I'm rooting for Louisville.. But as much as I hate ND football.. I'm finding the ND basketball team to be a team I can root for as well..

[Marmel]

Kentucky - No.
W. Virginia - Huggins is so easy to root for. A drunk bully in the sweet 16? Yes pls!
Notre Dame - Despite being Notre Dame, this is a pretty likeable group of kids. Still, it is ND.
Wichita St - Should be everybody's rooting interest in this bracket, but the coach is a prick, so no.

W. Virginia is the way to go here.

Wisconsin - Not much to hate on here. OK to root for.
UNC - No, of course not.
Xavier - Plain vanilla. No thanks.
Arizona - Fun team to watch, you are OK to root for them.

Basically anybody but UNC here.

NC State - Scrappy bunch. Cat Barber fun to watch.
Louisville - You can't root for Pitino, sorry.
Oklahoma - See Xavier.
Michigan St - Izzo is very likeable.

Michigan St is your choice here, but anybody other than Louisville I would accept.

Duke - This is the most likeable bunch of Dukies ever. But it is Duke.
Utah - So much NCAA Tournament heartbreak over the years, so yeah I hope the basketball gods throw them a bone.
UCLA - No
Gonzaga - The little guy with a real chance.

You root for Gonzaga to break through and reach a Final 4. Utah is an acceptable answer as well. They were the mid major who joined the P5.

[Abe Sargent]

Kentucky - No.
W. Virginia - Huggins is so easy to root for. A drunk bully in the sweet 16? Yes pls!
Notre Dame - Despite being Notre Dame, this is a pretty likeable group of kids. Still, it is ND.
Wichita St - Should be everybody's rooting interest in this bracket, but the coach is a prick, so no.

W. Virginia is the way to go here.

Wisconsin - Not much to hate on here. OK to root for.
UNC - No, of course not.
Xavier - Plain vanilla. No thanks.
Arizona - Fun team to watch, you are OK to root for them.

Basically anybody but UNC here.

NC State - Scrappy bunch. Cat Barber fun to watch.
Louisville - You can't root for Pitino, sorry.
Oklahoma - See Xavier.
Michigan St - Izzo is very likeable.

Michigan St is your choice here, but anybody other than Louisville I would accept.

Duke - This is the most likeable bunch of Dukies ever. But it is Duke.
Utah - So much NCAA Tournament heartbreak over the years, so yeah I hope the basketball gods throw them a bone.
UCLA - No
Gonzaga - The little guy with a real chance.

You root for Gonzaga to break through and reach a Final 4. Utah is an acceptable answer as well. They were the mid major who joined the P5.

You and I have very similar views on stuff

[JonInMiddleGA]

Kentucky - No.
W. Virginia - Huggins is so easy to root for. A drunk bully in the sweet 16? Yes pls!
Notre Dame - Despite being Notre Dame, this is a pretty likeable group of kids. Still, it is ND.
Wichita St - Should be everybody's rooting interest in this bracket, but the coach is a prick, so no.

W. Virginia is the way to go here.

Wisconsin - Not much to hate on here. OK to root for.
UNC - No, of course not.
Xavier - Plain vanilla. No thanks.
Arizona - Fun team to watch, you are OK to root for them.

Basically anybody but UNC here.

NC State - Scrappy bunch. Cat Barber fun to watch.
Louisville - You can't root for Pitino, sorry.
Oklahoma - See Xavier.
Michigan St - Izzo is very likeable.

Michigan St is your choice here, but anybody other than Louisville I would accept.

Duke - This is the most likeable bunch of Dukies ever. But it is Duke.
Utah - So much NCAA Tournament heartbreak over the years, so yeah I hope the basketball gods throw them a bone.
UCLA - No
Gonzaga - The little guy with a real chance.

You root for Gonzaga to break through and reach a Final 4. Utah is an acceptable answer as well. They were the mid major who joined the P5.

Mostly 'cause you have the teams in a convenient format for reference

Kentucky - remarkable roster doing things in an even more remarkable way. Aside from standard Kentucky hate (which I don't have a big problem with) there's really very little to nothing about this team not to like. Hard working, willing to make sacrifices for the common goal, defense. I can't really have a problem with them winning it all.

WVU is entertaining to watch at times, ND feels very vanilla, ditto Wichita State.

UNC -- cause ACC. This team, afaik, has at least gone through the motions for going to class. The downside is the unlikable coach.

Wisconsin is rather dull to me, Xavier & 'zona are both even less interesting.

NC State - cause ACC. Surprising to me really, they're a team that hasn't been very likable in recent years but this bunch hasn't offended me yet so I'll give them the conference benefit of the doubt.

Michigan State is tolerable, Louisville gets a similar nah from me as you gave, Oklahoma is more like "who"?

Duke -- ACC, and then some. Just as UNC was probably my most frequent #2 team in my first 20 years or so (circa Dean Smith era), I've probably rooted for Duke more often than any team aside from GT/UT in the last 20 or so. The exploding heads they provoke are just an added bonus at this point.

Utah & Gonzaga, meh. UCLA my second choice simply because they make heads explode so nicely.

[Izulde]

I hope Utah falls flat on their faces, TBH.

[Kodos]

Wichita St - Should be everybody's rooting interest in this bracket, but the coach is a prick, so no.


What has Marshall done? I'm only vaguely familiar with him.

[MrBug708]

I don't think he's well liked among his peers

[Marmel]

What has Marshall done? I'm only vaguely familiar with him.

It is nothing really specific, just the things he says and the way he carries himself really rubs me the wrong way. I know I am not alone in that. As Bug indicated, he is not very popular in the coaching fraternity.

I mean, most coaches are pricks, it is part of what makes them a basketball coach, and when they don't like somebody, that guy must be way out there.

[Kodos]

So IU could be looking to replace Crean with another coach that is universally disliked? Awesome.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Since it's that time of year, coaching changes & whatnot (plus the UCLA factor) I'll just throw this in here

Ben Howland finalizing contract to become Mississippi State Bulldogs coach - ESPN (http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/12543817/ben-howland-finalizing-contract-become-mississippi-state-bulldogs-coach)

[britrock88]

Kansas gone.

Iowa not playing much defense now

I think you meant "Kansas gone!!!" :)

[britrock88]

Tough loss for Dayton. UD had a 9 point lead in the second half, and were up 7 with under 10 minutes to go when Oklahoma just put the Flyers on defensive lockdown. We didn't score again until OU had a 6 point lead with under 2 minutes to play.

Rough way to go out, but really with essentially 6 scholarship players, making the round of 32 was an amazing accomplishment. Hopeful that UD can be a top-25 mainstay in the years to come.

Yeah, hard to watch them basically run out of gas. :(

[MrBug708]

Since it's that time of year, coaching changes & whatnot (plus the UCLA factor) I'll just throw this in here

Ben Howland finalizing contract to become Mississippi State Bulldogs coach - ESPN (http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/12543817/ben-howland-finalizing-contract-become-mississippi-state-bulldogs-coach)

Happy for him

[Chief Rum]

Happy for him

:+1:

Howland's a good coach, and really great at some things. He made some poor decisions in his post Final Four years and got away from what made him successful in the first place. Here's to hoping he learned some lessons from that experience and gets back into the thick of things quickly in the SEC.

[Butter]

Why now? Seemed like he was the hot name last year at some better places than Mississippi State. Only sticking point seemed to be money.

[MrBug708]

I don't think he was offered a job last year but was looking for one

[ColtCrazy]

booze and Ashley Judd

One would definitely help with the other.

Being an Indiana fan, the hate for Louisville and Kentucky is taught from birth. Add in Calipari, who seems to be an insufferable blowhard, the hate for Kentucky is strong. After that, Duke & Carolina are out. Never a big fan of UCLA. Any of the rest are fine.

I'll root for Wisconsin and Michigan St. since it keeps the Big 10 banner going. I'm a big fan of what Izzo does at MSU.

[Lathum]

I'm rooting for the Zags. Washington team and it would be great to see a guy like Few rewarded for staying.

[MrBug708]

One would definitely help with the other.

Being an Indiana fan, the hate for Louisville and Kentucky is taught from birth. Add in Calipari, who seems to be an insufferable blowhard, the hate for Kentucky is strong. After that, Duke & Carolina are out. Never a big fan of UCLA. Any of the rest are fine.

I'll root for Wisconsin and Michigan St. since it keeps the Big 10 banner going. I'm a big fan of what Izzo does at MSU.

We'll lose big for you, and you can have Alford

[Kodos]

We don't want him. :)

[MrBug708]

He's a legend! We'll waive the buyout! I'm almost tempted to offer to trade him straight up for Crean!

[ColtCrazy]

He's a legend! We'll waive the buyout! I'm almost tempted to offer to trade him straight up for Crean!

Alford must have some great pics of the UCLA president and some transvestite hooker to have been hired for the job in the first place. And as much as I loved Alford as a player, I'd rather keep Crean.

Just saying that makes me feel dirty.

Come on. UCLA and Indiana are two of the top 6 or 7 programs ever. Can't we get a coach that can, uh, coach?

[BishopMVP]

You must not watch much college hoops. Games in the 60s are pretty much the norm. Not sure why you are surprised.Maybe I was being too oblique. I'm not surprised a game was 32-32 at half. I'm disappointed the NCAA has Stockholm Syndrome'd me into being happy about that. 6 of 16 day 1 games neither team topped 60, and a 7th needed OT!

Scoring is down, shooting is down, and pace is the lowest measured. College basketball's issues with scoring and pace need solutions now - College Basketball - SI.com (http://www.si.com/college-basketball/2015/02/26/hoop-thoughts-college-basketball-scoring-pace)

[gstelmack]

Maybe I was being too oblique. I'm not surprised a game was 32-32 at half. I'm disappointed the NCAA has Stockholm Syndrome'd me into being happy about that. 6 of 16 day 1 games neither team topped 60, and a 7th needed OT!

Scoring is down, shooting is down, and pace is the lowest measured. College basketball's issues with scoring and pace need solutions now - College Basketball - SI.com (http://www.si.com/college-basketball/2015/02/26/hoop-thoughts-college-basketball-scoring-pace)

Some good points, but many of the changes (like removing the charge call) just reinforce "charge at the basket and throw up a prayer, expecting to get bailed out by the foul call and if you are lucky the ball will drop" play that isn't really basketball. The article even says "learn from the NBA", and I HATE watching the NBA because of what it's become.

I'm okay with a slower pace, I don't mind fewer possessions, but the decline in efficiency is more worrying. Yes, you need to get rid of the physical play (I always hated that Shaq built a career of fouling guys backing them up to the basket), but that's about officiating and coaching, not rules changes. Bringing in the shot clock may force more possessions, but it will also force more prayer shots, not good shots.

And yes, cut the timeouts, it's absurd. If you are fouled beyond the 3-point arc while in the bonus, you get 3 free throws, not 2 - intentional fouling to put the other team at the line slows games down, and worse is when you are down 3 and don't even get a crack at a 3 pointer, so improve both in one shot. Play around with arcs and lanes and 3-point lines, don't really care one way or another there. But don't let offensive players charge willy-nilly into the lane expecting a foul call, and teach these guys to shoot.

[Kodos]

That rule about fouling beyond the arc makes a lot of sense.

[panerd]

Why now? Seemed like he was the hot name last year at some better places than Mississippi State. Only sticking point seemed to be money.

Well he was the hot name but was never hired by any of them which makes you wonder. Plus I think he is an Adidas coach and Miss State is an Adidas school. Maybe that helped with some of the baggage I believe I read that he has.

[Marmel]

Some good points, but many of the changes (like removing the charge call) just reinforce "charge at the basket and throw up a prayer, expecting to get bailed out by the foul call and if you are lucky the ball will drop" play that isn't really basketball. The article even says "learn from the NBA", and I HATE watching the NBA because of what it's become.

I'm okay with a slower pace, I don't mind fewer possessions, but the decline in efficiency is more worrying. Yes, you need to get rid of the physical play (I always hated that Shaq built a career of fouling guys backing them up to the basket), but that's about officiating and coaching, not rules changes. Bringing in the shot clock may force more possessions, but it will also force more prayer shots, not good shots.

And yes, cut the timeouts, it's absurd. If you are fouled beyond the 3-point arc while in the bonus, you get 3 free throws, not 2 - intentional fouling to put the other team at the line slows games down, and worse is when you are down 3 and don't even get a crack at a 3 pointer, so improve both in one shot. Play around with arcs and lanes and 3-point lines, don't really care one way or another there. But don't let offensive players charge willy-nilly into the lane expecting a foul call, and teach these guys to shoot.

I do like the idea of 3 free shots for fouls outside of the arc, but I think that you have to limit it to last 2 minutes instead of the bonus. You can't have guys shooting 3 free throws with 9 minutes left in the game because of a foul on a rebound. It would also all but eliminate the full court press as a philosophy (like Louisville, Arkansas, etc)

[Logan]

Good point.

[Thomkal]

It is nothing really specific, just the things he says and the way he carries himself really rubs me the wrong way. I know I am not alone in that. As Bug indicated, he is not very popular in the coaching fraternity.

I mean, most coaches are pricks, it is part of what makes them a basketball coach, and when they don't like somebody, that guy must be way out there.

Someone is very interested in Marshall-Alabama. He might go as he has a lot of upperclassmen on his roster-and may not be interested in a rebuild.

Alabama prepared to make big run at Wichita State coach Gregg Marshall - CBSSports.com (http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/eye-on-college-basketball/25119705/alabama-prepared-to-make-big-run-at-wichita-state-coach-gregg-marshall)

[ColtCrazy]

I've seen Kentucky play, the best team this season, and I can say that offensively they aren't good fundamentally. They simply can overpower opponents with their athleticism. I agree with gstelmack in that a lot of offenses seem to center around reckless drives to the basket. Something needs to be done to curb that. I remember watching a completely overmatched Princeton team take a Mourning/Mutombo led Georgetown team to the wire because of sound fundamentals, well-run plays, and solid passing. This year I've seen teams try to win 1 point games by standing around and eventually launching a poor percentage three or have a guard drive recklessly into the paint as 4 guys stand around and watch. Can rules fix the lack of motion offenses and fundamentals?

[JonInMiddleGA]

I remember watching a completely overmatched Princeton team take a Mourning/Mutombo led Georgetown team to the wire because of sound fundamentals, well-run plays, and solid passing.

Nearly 4,400 scholarships available for D1 men's basketball.

You're not going to find more than a small fraction of that who can/will do what Princeton did.

The rest have to make do with what they can find.

[ColtCrazy]

Nearly 4,400 scholarships available for D1 men's basketball.

You're not going to find more than a small fraction of that who can/will do what Princeton did.

The rest have to make do with what they can find.


Then the issues go back to high school ball then, but this has trickled down from the NBA's philosophy of potential > ability and why we end up with so many good athletes in the NBA that can't shoot or dribble to save their lives.

[britrock88]

Well he was the hot name but was never hired by any of them which makes you wonder. Plus I think he is an Adidas coach and Miss State is an Adidas school. Maybe that helped with some of the baggage I believe I read that he has.

"Adidas coach" as in an endorser? Or what?

[nol]

Then the issues go back to high school ball then, but this has trickled down from the NBA's philosophy of potential > ability and why we end up with so many good athletes in the NBA that can't shoot or dribble to save their lives.

What specific fundamentals are lacking? NBA players have much more defensive awareness and make rotations much more quickly than do college players. NBA players shoot twice as many three pointers as they did 20 years ago and make them at an even higher percentage (league-wide free throw percentage has been in the same 75-77 percent range that it usually is). The current NBA season is the fourth-lowest for turnover percentage in league history.

So it looks like we can rule out defense, shooting, and taking care of the basketball as fundamentals that NBA players are no longer taught. What does that leave?

[tarcone]

Shooting. There just are not many good shooters. When you have extremely talented players growing up and they are facing not as talented, its easy to break down a defender and get to the rim. That doesn't translate as well to college. So less kids learnt o shoot and that allows defenses to pack it in and makes it more difficult for players to get to the rim.
Causes low scoring games.

Hard to compare NBA to NCAA. When 60 kids get drafted out of 4400.

[nol]

Shooting. There just are not many good shooters. When you have extremely talented players growing up and they are facing not as talented, its easy to break down a defender and get to the rim. That doesn't translate as well to college. So less kids learnt o shoot and that allows defenses to pack it in and makes it more difficult for players to get to the rim.
Causes low scoring games.

Hard to compare NBA to NCAA. When 60 kids get drafted out of 4400.

It's not that hard to compare. Being able to shoot the ball is a pretty important skill at any level. Apparently the NCAA used to be loaded with lights-out shooters who never went on to play in the NBA or just forgot how to shoot the ball. That seems weird compared to the current situation in which players who are no longer taught the fundamentals in high school and college go on to shoot/pass/dribble/defend as well or better than NBA players of yore.

[Abe Sargent]

Why are we not talking about the games right now?

[cartman]

I think every one is playing Pillars of Eternity.

[bob]

Did not expect ND to be up 19 with 4:36 to go.

[Abe Sargent]

Le sigh

[Galaxy]

Awful shot selection by WVU.

[corbes]

We (U.N.C.) played about as well as we can play. Glad that if we went down it was because we played a better team. Credit to Wisconsin and to Kaminsky and Dekker.

[Solecismic]

Having watched a lot of Big Ten basketball this season, I was curious why so many people thought Wisconsin wouldn't get this far. I don't know if they can beat Kentucky, but I'd give them a better than average shot at beating anyone else.

[Logan]

Don't think I've ever seen one team be in the bonus before it's opponent had scored it's 3rd point.

[tarcone]

Having watched a lot of Big Ten basketball this season, I was curious why so many people thought Wisconsin wouldn't get this far. I don't know if they can beat Kentucky, but I'd give them a better than average shot at beating anyone else.

B1G hatred, IMO. Wiscy is a dang good team with 2 1st round NBA players and a bunch other good players.
I really want to see a Wiscy/Kentucky game.

[hoopsguy]

Stainbrook is feasting against the Zona front line so far. Did not see that coming.

[Solecismic]

Just in case there are any Notre Dame players on this forum who feel anxious to make a guarantee about Saturday - maybe try something a little less difficult, like "I guarantee I will make at least one basket on Saturday." Of course, maybe ol' Daxter won't get there tonight, either.

[MrBug708]

Arizona should still pull this out, but competent coaches will always give Miller fits

[Ragone]

I saw someone's random Twitter post saying something to the effect of
"Matt stainbrook is what my usual create-a-player looks like"

[Arles]

It's pretty amazing that Arizona has 3 free throw attempts midway through the 2nd half.

[MrBug708]

It's pretty amazing that Arizona has 3 free throw attempts midway through the 2nd half.

Not used to not getting the calls is really hurting them

[Arles]

If you have 26 points in the paint and 5 free throws, something doesn't add up

[lungs]

If anybody playing Wisconsin wants to throw down a bottle in of Gem Clear, let's get it on !

[Arles]

But I do agree you can't blame the refs for this. Arizona looks pretty awful tonight

[Glengoyne]

So that clip they keep showing of the Kentucky player drops his shoulder and drives it through the Defender's chest. That was an offensive foul right? I'm assuming so because Huggins was still on the sideline at the end of the game.

[MrBug708]

But I do agree you can't blame the refs for this. Arizona looks pretty awful tonight

If anything, Xavier is getting the bad end of the calls

[Arles]

I wouldn't go that far. The last call on Zeus when Speckled Big Country collapsed from exhaustion was pretty weak.

[ColtCrazy]

And this is the issue I have with basketball sometimes. Twice Xavier has driven to the hoop wildly hoping to draw a foul (without ever coming close to making the shot). Once they got the call. Just now they didn't. That can't be a team's best play in crunch time.

Kudos to Arizona. Poise at the end matters.

[Arles]

Xavier had some heart though. Much better fight than I thought it would be

[ColtCrazy]

Definitely fought hard. Would have been great to see them win it. Zona is good, but I think Wisconsin can take them. I'm wanting that Uk-Wisconsin matchup to happen.

[INDalltheway]

That was a good basketball game to watch. I don't know how there could be complaints on officiating either way. It was pretty evenly called (I would lean Zona got the better of the calls) and they let them play.

[Brian Swartz]

Daxter Miles? Paging Daxter Miles ...

[Lathum]

Don't think I've ever seen one team be in the bonus before it's opponent had scored it's 3rd point.

was at BWs with about 8 guys and we all noticed at the same time, was like, WTF.

[Lathum]

"I knew it was going to be like this," Ulis said. "We've been talking about it all day -- coming out all day and demolishing them because they were talking so much trash. Saying that we were going to be 36-1 -- we felt like that was nonsense.

"Our whole plan was to crush their spirit. [To] beat them by 50 for disrespecting us."


lol

I love that the totaly admit it was their goal to destroy them.

[Logan]

lol

I love that the totaly admit it was their goal to destroy them.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>36 and won</p>&mdash; Devin Booker (@DevinBook) <a href="https://twitter.com/DevinBook/status/581308472257544192">March 27, 2015</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[hoopsguy]

If you have 26 points in the paint and 5 free throws, something doesn't add up

Just hope you are not expecting to get calls against Wisky. Those guys just about never get called for anything. It is borderline freakish how few fouls they draw relative to the way that they defend.

[rowech]

If Duke always gets games called like this I don't have a clue how they ever lose.

[rowech]

Couple of bad calls the others way now. Officials just might be incompetent instead of biased.

[tarcone]

Go Sparty.
Hate to say this, and it really pains me. Go Bucky. But I really dislike Bo Ryan. But I like the players.

[ColtCrazy]

Good win for Sparty. Izzo just is a fantastic coach. You never can seem to count his teams out in tourney time, regardless of their regular season performance.

[Vince, Pt. II]

Damn it. Utah over Duke was my only non-Izzo pick against chalk this late in the tourney. Sigh.

[Buccaneer]

Go Wisconsin and Mich State.

[nol]

Rick Barnes got canned.

[kingfc22]

An Elite 8 game not on CBS.

[Lathum]

An Elite 8 game not on CBS.

I noticed that also. How is that even possible.

[britrock88]

An Elite 8 game not on CBS.

Final Four is on TBS, too...

[MizzouRah]

Arizona, don't fail me or my bracket!

[Vince, Pt. II]

If Wisconsin keeps this up from outside, I don't know how Arizona can win.

[hoopsguy]

If Wisconsin keeps this up from outside, I don't know how Arizona can win.

Everyone is hitting from the arc this half. Wisky is shredding a really good defensive team. This is probably best offensive basketball I've seen so far in this tournament.

Was hoping ND would do something like this to Kentucky for at least a stretch of the later game ...

[hoopsguy]

Would never have predicted both teams north of 75 points, barring 4 OTs.

[Lathum]

That was gross.

[hoopsguy]

Dekker is SO sick right now. That was unreal. Man, I wish Wisky could bottle some of this for Kentucky.

[Vince, Pt. II]

What a game. Unreal.

[lungs]

Woo! Great to be going back to the Final Four.

[Buccaneer]

Woohoo!!

[timmae]

I need a whiskey after that game... Just awesome! Hell, make it a double.

[MizzouRah]

Congrats Wisconsin! Now let's go Notre Dame even though I have Kentucky winning it all!!!

[Neuqua]

Gregg Marshall interested in Texas job, indicates Alabama should save its energy - SBNation.com (http://www.sbnation.com/2015/3/28/8306775/gregg-marshall-texas-longhorns-alabama-wichita-state)

[bob]

This is the first UK game I've watched this year. Do they ever get called for over the back?

[bob]

These refs f*cking blow

[nol]

Nope. They have been called for it zero times. Very astute observation.

[bob]

Certainly haven't been called for it today.

[nol]

Certainly haven't been called for it today.

Pretty radical, but it's possible for a player to get an offensive rebound by being taller and jumping higher than the opponent. Attempting to box someone out does not guarantee a defensive rebound or a foul.

[bob]

Radical indeed...

No need to be a dick. I asked a simple question.

[Lathum]

Radical indeed...

No need to be a dick. I asked a simple question.

he comes across that way a lot, he thinks he is smarter than everyone else.

[Lathum]

dola- at what point does UK feel the weight of expectation? Living just on the other side of the river I would love all those mouth breather UK fans to be crying over their pop tarts tomorrow morning.

You know how I know they all eat pop tarts? They are all morbidly obese and have no teeth.

[NobodyHere]

You know how I know they all eat pop tarts? They are all morbidly obese and have no teeth.

I thought that's from the inbreeding.

[hoopsguy]

dola- at what point does UK feel the weight of expectation?

I'm thinking right about now that the weight is going to be pretty real.

[Lathum]

I'm thinking right about now that the weight is going to be pretty real.

Nd playing like they have nothing to lose.

[bob]

I wish I had kept a stop watch of game time vs commercials.

[Ragone]

Might be Armageddon in Lexington if Kentucky loses and Louisville makes final four.

[hoopsguy]

ND missed foul shots feel like they are going to come back to haunt them ...

And there is Kentucky lead on Harrison 3.

[Brian Swartz]

Another one of those 'what are you think ... I mean, great shot! Don't ever do it again, but great shot!!'

[Eaglesfan27]

Those are some VERY long 3's. Wow.

[SirFozzie]

Oh wow. That's moments like that that keep me interested in College Basketball

[albionmoonlight]

Do college teams really need 47 timeouts per team per half?

[nol]

Do college teams really need 47 timeouts per team per half?

No, but Taco Bell, Burger King, Pepsi, Dasani, Dove, Sprint, AT&T, and co. do.

[Lathum]

So close. Damn.

[PilotMan]

Suck it Irish fans.

[hoopsguy]

Bad inbounds, was so close to ND's own end line.
Was that Cauley-Stein running with him all the way down the court?

[miami_fan]

No, but Taco Bell, Burger King, Pepsi, Dasani, Dove, Sprint, AT&T, and co. do.

Winner!

[bob]

A big part of ND losing that game was Grant trying to be a hero at the end. Two consecutive possessions he stopped what the team was using to be successful (moving the ball) and forced bad 3's.

[JPhillips]

A big part of ND losing that game was Grant trying to be a hero at the end. Two consecutive possessions he stopped what the team was using to be successful (moving the ball) and forced bad 3's.

I thought that, too.

And missed free throws.

[bob]

They only missed 3 all game - just all at the end.

It was desperation either way, but why run to the corner for an off balance 3? A 2 ties it.

[nol]

I thought Towns was so impressive offensively. It was obviously a physical mismatch for him, but it's extremely common to see young big guys get too impatient and shut themselves down with offensive fouls or turnovers. Even when he wasn't scoring he was moving the ball to the right guy. Quite the gut check to go from the background guy to the #1 option in that environment.

[britrock88]

Suck it Irish fans.

Come on, PM, this wasn't nearly as much about ND as it was about UK...

[britrock88]

A big part of ND losing that game was Grant trying to be a hero at the end. Two consecutive possessions he stopped what the team was using to be successful (moving the ball) and forced bad 3's.

Eh. Regrets, yes. But that could have been Brey, could have been Grant... *shurg*

[nol]

The 2nd-to-last possession was definitely a called isolation for Grant. The final play looked like a defensive breakdown in the making for UK but finding the open man is easier said than done when there's a seven footer running stride-for-stride with you.

[Vince, Pt. II]

Listening on the radio, I got the feeling that the last two possessions were absolutely terrible for Notre Dame. Hell of a game though.

[Karlifornia]

A big part of ND losing that game was Grant trying to be a hero at the end. Two consecutive possessions he stopped what the team was using to be successful (moving the ball) and forced bad 3's.

Whatever...he's the best player on the team. You live and die with a talent like that.

[ColtCrazy]

Damn. Now I really, really, want Wisconsin to beat UK. I can't live this close to Kentucky and put up with the undefeated talk forever.

[Brian Swartz]

I thought Notre Dame had the game and blinked. When they made that three to go up 62-56 with a few minutes left, I thought they were going to win it. After that, it was one free throw and the long three by Grant and that was it. They needed to make another shot or two, while Kentucky was making everything. Irish played well enough to win, and I'm still not sure how I feel about the fact that they didn't. Most champions have at least one big scare, I think this will probably be a lot closer than Kentucky comes to losing next weekend.

[ColtCrazy]

Sadly, I tend to agree with you. Kentucky was ripe for the upset and Notre Dame just didn't play the same as they had done the first 38 minutes. I think Wisconsin is the last team that stands a chance, but I have a feeling it's Kentucky's year.
Ugh.
Just please don't let it be a Kentucky-Louisville championship. Living in Southern Indiana will become unbearable. :)

[Young Drachma]

NJIT who still aren't in a conference and who beat Michigan at home earlier this year are still dancing, albeit in the CIT Final Four.

CIT | CollegeInsider.com | Postseason Tournament (http://www.collegeinsider.com/tournament/schedule-results.php)

NIT Final Four is Miami, Temple, Stanford and Old Dominion.

[stevew]

Whatever...he's the best player on the team. You live and die with a talent like that.

Yeah. Agreed.

[mauchow]

When Notre Dame called the time out with 34 seconds left I was screaming, WHY WHY WHY!!!!???

Get the inbounds and fly to half court and call a time out w 3-4 seconds left and work something up from there.

Just a terrible use of time out for ND.

[nol]

I don't see how commentators can think it's "rolling the dice" to leave a player with 4 fouls in when there are under 4 minutes remaining. If you can't count on someone to go 4 trips down and back without picking up a foul, that player would've fouled out before halftime.

[Buccaneer]

Woohoo!! part 2

[Young Drachma]

I'm just glad as a part-time Kentucky resident that I don't have to deal with a whole feed of UL-UK shit for another week. Wish Kentucky would've lost last night.

[HerRealName]

Before the season I thought MSU was a bubble team at best this year. Izzo is a wizzard.

[Buccaneer]

I told my son that one does not ever bet against Izzo to not make the Final Four.

[Solecismic]

Remarkable that Gonzaga has been in the tournament 17 straight years now (but never won a regional). Since their Cinderella days as a low seed in 1999-2001, they are only 2-9 as the lower seeded team in games (first-round wins as a 9 and as an 11) and 13-5 as the higher seeded team (15-14 overall).

Their average seeding over the last 14 years is 5.8.

Michigan State has been to 18 straight tournaments. While Gonzaga was playing Cinderella as a low seed, they went to three straight Final Fours as a one seed, winning one title.

But the regular season has been tougher on them since then. Their average seeding over the last 14 years is also 5.8. And their record is 29-13, with four more regional championships.

I don't want to downplay what Gonzaga has achieved too much, but I think mid-majors are generally over-seeded. If the goal is to win the national tournament, you're better off going 11-7 in a major conference than 14-0 in a mid-major and seeding should reflect that.

[nol]

Remarkable that Gonzaga has been in the tournament 17 straight years now (but never won a regional). Since their Cinderella days as a low seed in 1999-2001, they are only 2-9 as the lower seeded team in games (first-round wins as a 9 and as an 11) and 13-5 as the higher seeded team (15-14 overall).

Their average seeding over the last 14 years is 5.8.

Michigan State has been to 18 straight tournaments. While Gonzaga was playing Cinderella as a low seed, they went to three straight Final Fours as a one seed, winning one title.

But the regular season has been tougher on them since then. Their average seeding over the last 14 years is also 5.8. And their record is 29-13, with four more regional championships.

I don't want to downplay what Gonzaga has achieved too much, but I think mid-majors are generally over-seeded. If the goal is to win the national tournament, you're better off going 11-7 in a major conference than 14-0 in a mid-major and seeding should reflect that.

Lol, if you use Michigan State as the yardstick literally every single team is going to be over-seeded by comparison. Kansas is 20-8 as the higher seed the past 10 years. Duke is 30-12 as the higher seed since 2002, which could look much worse if you were to selectively throw out national championships in the same vein as "discounting the 3 years Gonzaga went 7-3 as the lower seed, they're only 2-9."

[Young Drachma]

Gonzaga needs to get into the Big East like they wanted to back when the new league was formed. The WCC is killing them at tournament time.

[Solecismic]

6-3. But my point is that Gonzaga '99-'01 is one of the reasons mid-majors have been bumped up in the seedings. And since then, Gonzaga has underperformed. Teams seeded 9-16 aren't going to be over-seeded in this manner.

It's hard to use the under/over comparison when teams are seeded very differently. That's why I chose MSU to compare to Gonzaga - a team with a long run of getting into the tournament, but not necessarily a high seed. Obviously, MSU is the biggest tournament overachiever in this period.

Kansas and Duke have also made it the last 14 years, but both average a 1.9/2.0 seed. Wisconsin is the only other team to reach the tournament in the last 14 years (average seed 5.1) and is 24-13 in the tournament over that time.

Going through each game they've played in the last 14 years by seeding, Gonzaga would have an expected overall record of 16.5-12.5 rather than 15-14.

What they did in 1999-2001 was remarkable (7-3, including the win over a lower seed, versus an expected 3.5-6.5 record), but I think their record since reflects an overseeding. And is partly responsible for the perception that mid-majors aren't given enough respect.

[Karlifornia]

Gonzaga needs to get into the Big East like they wanted to back when the new league was formed. The WCC is killing them at tournament time.

I don't think so. They are just usually a good to really good team. They never have an Anthony Davis type talent. Just really good players. They were a two seed this year (with maybe their best team in years....senior guards and talented bigs), and lost to a one in Duke in the regional final. Duke had some guys hit some big shots in the second half, and Winslow played like an animal. I was rooting hard for the Zags, but they were second best in that region. I don't think you can look down on them for losing to Duke.

The WCC is not killing them. Utah had a great team this year, but they only made the Final Four when they were in a "lesser" conference. It's about quality of player and coach, and Few is good, but not Izzo. The players are good, but not transcendent.

[nol]

6-3. But my point is that Gonzaga '99-'01 is one of the reasons mid-majors have been bumped up in the seedings. And since then, Gonzaga has underperformed. Teams seeded 9-16 aren't going to be over-seeded in this manner.

It's hard to use the under/over comparison when teams are seeded very differently. That's why I chose MSU to compare to Gonzaga - a team with a long run of getting into the tournament, but not necessarily a high seed. Obviously, MSU is the biggest tournament overachiever in this period.

Kansas and Duke have also made it the last 14 years, but both average a 1.9/2.0 seed. Wisconsin is the only other team to reach the tournament in the last 14 years (average seed 5.1) and is 24-13 in the tournament over that time.

Going through each game they've played in the last 14 years by seeding, Gonzaga would have an expected overall record of 16.5-12.5 rather than 15-14.

What they did in 1999-2001 was remarkable (7-3, including the win over a lower seed, versus an expected 3.5-6.5 record), but I think their record since reflects an overseeding. And is partly responsible for the perception that mid-majors aren't given enough respect.

Right, and that's where I'd say that underperforming its seed by 1.5 wins over 14 years falls (especially after overperforming its seed by 3.5 wins over 3 years) right in line with the randomness of a single-elimination tournament. Any inference beyond that is likely representation bias at work.

No matter which way you break it up, a large enough group of highly-seeded teams will almost certainly underperform - otherwise the tournament would be all chalk. Going purely by seed, 1 seeds are 13-1 this year when they're expected to be 16-0, 2 seeds are 8-4 when they're expected to be 12-4, and so on. I'm sure these trends do not significantly differ by conference or mid-major status, and any small differences could be just as easily attributed to stuff like last year's Wichita State team being placed in the region from hell or first-round matchups like 2008 Davidson-Gonzaga where the mid-majors cannibalize themselves.

In other words, power conference schools overperforming their seed are said to do so because the conference schedule toughened them up, and upsets are usually blamed on "the madness" or the particular team's coach/players. The opposite holds true for the small conference teams.

[Solecismic]

Right, and that's where I'd say that underperforming its seed by 1.5 wins over 14 years falls (especially after overperforming its seed by 3.5 wins over 3 years) right in line with the randomness of a single-elimination tournament. Any inference beyond that is likely representation bias at work.

No matter which way you break it up, a large enough group of highly-seeded teams will almost certainly underperform - otherwise the tournament would be all chalk. Going purely by seed, 1 seeds are 13-1 this year when they're expected to be 16-0, 2 seeds are 8-4 when they're expected to be 12-4, and so on. I'm sure these trends do not significantly differ by conference or mid-major status, and any small differences could be just as easily attributed to stuff like last year's Wichita State team being placed in the region from hell or first-round matchups like 2008 Davidson-Gonzaga where the mid-majors cannibalize themselves.

In other words, power conference schools overperforming their seed are said to do so because the conference schedule toughened them up, and upsets are usually blamed on "the madness" or the particular team's coach/players. The opposite holds true for the small conference teams.

1-seeds would be expected to be 4-0 in the first round, 3.4 - 0.6 in the second round, 2.7 - 0.7 in the third round and 1.6 - 1.1 in the regional final. So 11.7 - 2.4 (2.9 - 0.6 per team) total before you get to the FF. Not winning the regional is only a slight under-performance.

This year's cumulative 13-1 is a bit of an over-performance. Last year's 10-3 was a bit of an under-performance.

Could we eliminate the hypothesis that Gonzaga hasn't underperformed in the last 14 years? No. I think the only way to do this properly is to sum all of the expected performances of all teams over the last 10-20 years and break it down by conference. I'm interested in that, but I'm not sure I want to crunch all of those numbers.

[nol]

1-seeds would be expected to be 4-0 in the first round, 3.4 - 0.6 in the second round, 2.7 - 0.7 in the third round and 1.6 - 1.1 in the regional final. So 11.7 - 2.4 (2.9 - 0.6 per team) total before you get to the FF. Not winning the regional is only a slight under-performance.

This year's cumulative 13-1 is a bit of an over-performance. Last year's 10-3 was a bit of an under-performance.

Could we eliminate the hypothesis that Gonzaga hasn't underperformed in the last 14 years? No. I think the only way to do this properly is to sum all of the expected performances of all teams over the last 10-20 years and break it down by conference. I'm interested in that, but I'm not sure I want to crunch all of those numbers.

That last paragraph is my original point: Michigan State is pretty much the only team whose performance over the last 15 or so years you couldn't point to and just say "eh, randomness."

Your initial hypothesis seemed more along the lines of "Gonzaga did well for 3 years, and because of that mid-majors have been overseeded since then." It's a lot easier to reject that because, as you mentioned, an underperformance is going to be balanced out by an overperformance somewhere else. For every time Gonzaga's upset, there's a deep run from Butler or VCU or George Mason. For every year the Big 10/ACC/Big East/Big 12 proves it's the strongest conference in America by placing multiple teams in the Final Four, there's a year in which the conference is victimized by Cinderellas and wiped out by the end of the first weekend.

Sometimes Gonzaga does worse than its seed indicates. Sometimes it doesn't. The same goes for Duke, Kansas, UNC, Kentucky, and everyone else. The difference is that power conference schools have bigger fanbases and therefore more people who are consoled by hearing that even if their team didn't win, it was at least a winner by association.

[Arles]

I think there are bad seeds/under-seeding across the board - not just mid majors. There's no way Wichita State should have been a 7, while Georgetown was a 4 and Baylor a 3. There's also no way Ohio State should have been a 10 compared to higher seeded mid majors like Xavier and SMU (6). Heck, you could have easily Swapped the entire 6 line (SMU, Butler, Xavier and Providence) for 7/10 participants in MSU, OSU, Wichita and VCU - and been justified.

I think that the committee tries to hard to get interesting matchups like prior coaches (SMU-UCLA), rematches (Arizona-Wisconsin) or never-matches (Kansas, Wichita). Once again, great pedigree teams like Michigan State and Louisville get sent to a bracket with paper champions (Nova, Virginia) - while Duke gets layup after layup. Arizona and Wisconsin were arguably the 2nd and 3rd best teams in the country going into the Tourney (atleast according to Vegas and most ratings). They have to play each other in the regional and then the winner faces Kentucky on the first leg of the final 4. Worst case, Duke was going to face an overseeded Georgetown at the 1-4, an untested Gonzaga as the 1-2 and the weakest 1 by a mile (Nova) in the final 4.

A more reasonable setup would have been to put Nova/AZ at the #1/2 spot in the West, Duke/Zags the #1/2 in the East and Wisconsin/Virginia the #1/2 in South. Now, you've setup Kentucky vs the Nova-AZ winner for the one leg and Duke against Wisconsin on the other leg. But, we are now going to the see the finals in the first round (Kentucky-Wisc), while Duke still avoids facing a top 5 team in the tournament.

[Logan]

5 things every fan should know about the Final Four - SBNation.com (http://www.sbnation.com/2015/3/30/8306341/5-things-every-fan-should-know-about-the-final-four)

[cartman]

I think we are down to three possible winners for the Yahoo! group.

Kentucky makes the title game - I win
Wisconsin wins the title- hoosiergoody wins
Duke beats Wisconsin - JiMGA wins

[britrock88]

I think we are down to three possible winners for the Yahoo! group.

Kentucky makes the title game - I win
Wisconsin wins the title- hoosiergoody wins
Duke beats Wisconsin - JiMGA wins

Go, hoosiergoody!

[Solecismic]

Just because I was curious, I ran expected records in the regional tournaments for the Big Ten. Took less time than I thought because the method itself lends itself well to spreadsheets.

From 2002-2015 (the time frame for the hypothesis), Big Ten teams were 114-66 in regional play. Their seedings revealed an expected 104.8-75.2 record from those games, or 9.2 wins above seeding.

However, Michigan State alone is almost eight wins above seeding, so it could be a magic Izzo spreadsheet.

Individual Results: Ill +0.3, Ind +0.3, Iowa -1.1, Mary -0.4 (just this year, of course), Mich +1.6, MSU +7.7, Minn -0.9, Neb -0.3, OSU -0.3, PSU -0.4, Purd +0.9, Wisc +1.8.

I'm probably going to continue this with at least one more power conference.

Editing to add Pac-12:

Total: 81-57
Expected: 74.7 - 63.3
+6.3 wins

Individuals: Ariz +1.8, ASU -0.3, Cal -0.7, Colo -0.6, Oreg +1.3, Stan -0.3, UCLA +4.2, USC -0.6, Utah +0.7, Wash +0.8, WSU -0.1.

Editing to add ACC:

Total 116-68
Expected: 117.2 - 66.8
-1.2 wins

Individuals: BC -0.7, Clem -1.9, Duke -3.3, FSU -0.4, GATech +1.3, Louis +1.3, Miami 0, NCSt +1.2, UNC +2.3, ND +0.6, Pitt -0.1, Syr +1.3, Virg -1.9, VATech -0.1, Wake -1.2, Mary +0.4.

[Marmel]

First, I love Izzo and think he is a great coach, but this Izzo love is a little overboard. For as great as his teams perform in the first 4 rounds of the tournament, assuming he doesn't get by Duke and Wisc/Kentucky, he is going to be 1 for 7 in the Final 4. Making the final 4 is great, but the goal for teams like MSU is winning a title and he only got it done once. In between his first final 4 and this year he also has 4 first round losses and another 2nd round losses.

On top of that, unless he pulls of the upset against Duke (and K owns Izzo), he has 5 losses in the national semis out of 7 tries.

So why is he good in the first 4 rounds, but basically sucks in the Final 4?

(Oh and since I still hear how Cuse was lucky to play in Boston/Albany in their title season, I'll point out that MSU's only title came in 4 similar home games during the tournament - Auburn Hills for the Regionals - , not that I actually think that diminishes it).

[Buccaneer]

First, I love Izzo and think he is a great coach, but this Izzo love is a little overboard. For as great as his teams perform in the first 4 rounds of the tournament, assuming he doesn't get by Duke and Wisc/Kentucky, he is going to be 1 for 7 in the Final 4. Making the final 4 is great, but the goal for teams like MSU is winning a title and he only got it done once. In between his first final 4 and this year he also has 4 first round losses and another 2nd round losses.

On top of that, unless he pulls of the upset against Duke (and K owns Izzo), he has 5 losses in the national semis out of 7 tries.

So why is he good in the first 4 rounds, but basically sucks in the Final 4?

(Oh and since I still hear how Cuse was lucky to play in Boston/Albany in their title season, I'll point out that MSU's only title came in 4 similar home games during the tournament - Auburn Hills for the Regionals - , not that I actually think that diminishes it).

I asked my son to recall all of Izzo's MSU Final Four appearances/results and after consideration, he agrees with you with the caveat that they don't typically have the talent to achieve better results. Is it true that they get OSU and Michigan leftovers?

[ColtCrazy]

Great stuff Solecismic. Izzo's record in the tourney in quite impressive considering how he's improved the longer he's been there. 7 of the last 8 years, he's gotten the Spartans to at least the regional semifinals. He's probably my favorite current college basketball coach.

[ColtCrazy]

On a side note, the tourney always makes me sad that there's no good college basketball board game to play or even a console game from the last half decade.

[nol]

First, I love Izzo and think he is a great coach, but this Izzo love is a little overboard. For as great as his teams perform in the first 4 rounds of the tournament, assuming he doesn't get by Duke and Wisc/Kentucky, he is going to be 1 for 7 in the Final 4. Making the final 4 is great, but the goal for teams like MSU is winning a title and he only got it done once. In between his first final 4 and this year he also has 4 first round losses and another 2nd round losses.

On top of that, unless he pulls of the upset against Duke (and K owns Izzo), he has 5 losses in the national semis out of 7 tries.

So why is he good in the first 4 rounds, but basically sucks in the Final 4?

(Oh and since I still hear how Cuse was lucky to play in Boston/Albany in their title season, I'll point out that MSU's only title came in 4 similar home games during the tournament - Auburn Hills for the Regionals - , not that I actually think that diminishes it).

Because everyone basically sucks in the Final Four (if the standard for not sucking is winning the title half the time or having a winning record in FF games)? Dean Smith's 2 for 11, Pitino's 2 for 7, and K and Wooden are the only ones with a better track record. If MSU doesn't win the title, 4 of the 6 Final Four losses under Izzo will be to 1 seeds, and I doubt the Spartans were favored in all of those games. By my count there are 4 schools that have won more than one championship since Izzo's been coaching the Spartans, so "only' one is a step beyond a first-world problem in college basketball.

[Solecismic]

First, I love Izzo and think he is a great coach, but this Izzo love is a little overboard. For as great as his teams perform in the first 4 rounds of the tournament, assuming he doesn't get by Duke and Wisc/Kentucky, he is going to be 1 for 7 in the Final 4. Making the final 4 is great, but the goal for teams like MSU is winning a title and he only got it done once. In between his first final 4 and this year he also has 4 first round losses and another 2nd round losses.

On top of that, unless he pulls of the upset against Duke (and K owns Izzo), he has 5 losses in the national semis out of 7 tries.

So why is he good in the first 4 rounds, but basically sucks in the Final 4?

(Oh and since I still hear how Cuse was lucky to play in Boston/Albany in their title season, I'll point out that MSU's only title came in 4 similar home games during the tournament - Auburn Hills for the Regionals - , not that I actually think that diminishes it).

His record is 3-5 in the Final Four. Expected record 4.3 - 3.7. Izzo gives back -1.3 from his +7.7. If you wanted to diminish the title, MSU was a one-seed that year and they beat an 8 and a 5 in the Final Four.

I hate to read too much into that small a sample size. That's why I'm looking to expand to conferences as a whole. The largest set I can think of is to group the power conferences together and subtract from the expected mean.

[Buccaneer]

Smith 2 for 11?? Boeheim has 4 victories - 3 FF wins and a NC win.

[rowech]

Because everyone basically sucks in the Final Four (if the standard for not sucking is winning the title half the time or having a winning record in FF games)? Dean Smith's 2 for 11, Pitino's 2 for 7, and K and Wooden are the only ones with a better track record. If MSU doesn't win the title, 4 of the 6 Final Four losses under Izzo will be to 1 seeds, and I doubt the Spartans were favored in all of those games. By my count there are 4 schools that have won more than one championship since Izzo's been coaching the Spartans, so "only' one is a step beyond a first-world problem in college basketball.

Knight was 3 for 5.

[Marmel]

Smith 2 for 11?? Boeheim has 4 victories - 3 FF wins and a NC win.

Yes, Boeheim has 4 trips, going 1-1, 1-1, 2-0, 0-1 for a 4-3 record.
I consider Boeheim and Izzo about equals. Give Izzo the edge in the tournament, Boeheim in the regular season, plus longevity.

[nol]

Smith 2 for 11?? Boeheim has 4 victories - 3 FF wins and a NC win.

Success was defined as winning a title via the Izzo 1 for 7 statement. Pitino and Izzo are good examples of why the Final Four is rightfully celebrated as a pretty big deal - from that point, the title can be so random (even Kentucky is like a 50-50 shot this year) that you just want to get there enough times to eventually run into lower seeds.

All that circles back to the fact that being within 1-2 wins of your expected tournament record can be easily explained by how a team's bracket breaks in a given year. If Duke tripped up against Utah and Gonzaga advanced to the Final Four instead, the Zags would be one win against Michigan State (a game in which they'd be slightly favored) away from faring better than their expected record.

I do think it's legitimate to say that Michigan State pumps up its tournament performance relative to seed by underachieving in the regular season, and I don't think you can give that a nice story along the lines of "Izzo only recruits blue-collar players who have to learn to believe in themselves before they can win games in March." You could say Michigan State is not exactly an NBA factory (Morris Peterson, Jason Richardson, Zach Randolph, and Draymond Green might be the only Izzo players who have gone on to become regular NBA starters), but there seem to be a lot of McDonald's All Americans or otherwise highly ranked recruits who kind of go in and out of the doghouse for a few years (Raymar Morgan, Branden Dawson, Paul Davis, Drew Neitzel).

[ColtCrazy]

I always have my kids in my 5th grade class do a bracket. For the first time I can remember, I have 4 kids still alive. Each picked a different team to win the title, even Michigan St.

[nol]

Shaka Smart's going to be the Texas coach.

[cartman]

Strong football coach and Smart basketball coach.

[tarcone]

Strong football coach and Smart basketball coach.


*rimshot*

[Lathum]

I'm in Jamaica watching the game and it is on ESPN with Dicky V announcing. Kind of weird.

[tarcone]

Okafor is a man-child. He got game.

[Kodos]

This could be going better...

[tarcone]

Sparty cant make a lay up. Killing them.

[Brian Swartz]

This is not a game, it's a demolition. Too bad.

[EagleFan]

Ugh, now we have to keep hearing about Duke...

[JPhillips]

Ugh, now we have to keep hearing about Duke...

Wait. It will get worse.

We'll have to hear about Duke and Kentucky.

[Buccaneer]

Wait. It will get worse.

We'll have to hear about Duke and Kentucky.

+1 Only a Wisconsin win can save this; otherwise, it's baseball season!

[JPhillips]

Cauley-Stein will be a great NBA defender, but he has to develop that foul line jumper if he wants to be a star.

[tarcone]

Fast start to this game. Its fun to watch.

[Groundhog]

Wisconsin are working harder right now. Not just 50-50 plays either, they are working for 20-80 plays and coming away with the ball. Just then, no way Kaminski had that rebound, he was pushed away from the basket and boxed out, but he still comes up with it.

[Groundhog]

Kaminsky has about 4 near-travels so far... a bit shaky with the ball inside the arc.

[Arles]

For a tournament that's had its share of crap offense (see the entire East region) this first half was a delight to watch.

[nol]

This first half is looking less worrisome than the Notre Dame one for Kentucky. The Irish were spreading them out and beating them defensively, but Wisconsin has had quite a few highly-contested shots that luckily went in.

[Groundhog]

Wisconsin have also blown a couple of easy ones too. With Kentucky though it always feels like they're on the verge of an 8 or 10 point run.

[Groundhog]

I can see Dekker being one of those spot-up PF/Bonner types in the NBA.

[MikeVic]

lol, what why no flagrant?

[Glengoyne]

How was that NOT a flagrant foul?

[tarcone]

Wow. No flagrant. Terrible. Duke/Kentucky, anyone?

[Glengoyne]

I guess the same way that was a charge.

[cuervo72]

The Slap, on tbs!

[mauchow]

Swing to the damn face..intentionally.. sigh.

Final four minutes should be fun!

[MikeVic]

The Slap, on tbs!

Hahahaha!
https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTtW58OwnfqQbG3JWLs1q3utPIFUUSjtA0-JJBxYBvSBZFXpbO2

[tarcone]

And no foul on the next play when the guard extended his arm to gain space up top. That was a foul.

[Glengoyne]

Swing to the damn face..intentionally.. sigh.

Final four minutes should be fun!

That's what I saw too. Didnt seem like there was any way it could have been accidental.

[bhlloy]

That evens it up somewhat. The officiating has been terrible for both games as far as I've seen

[Groundhog]

Some real interesting (non)calls in the last 5 mins.

[bob]

There are two reasons I watch a lot less sports than i used to. One is just additional responsibilities that comes with a family that means less free time. The other is the knowledge of how much money surrounds all of this, and the thought in my head, right or wrong, that so many iffy calls favor the better financial matchup.

Duke vs Kentucky - big money

Duke vs Wisconsin - not so much

[tarcone]

Okay. Wiscy gets one back. This is going to be good. Maybe the NCAA should hire full time refs.

[Groundhog]

Dekker, wow.

[Groundhog]

Then takes the charge!

[miami_fan]

Makeup call #2

[Groundhog]

Chances of this ending on a botched no call?

[kingfc22]

These officials would be better off making non-calls

[Glengoyne]

And then a make up makeup?

[kingfc22]

Just drive to the hoop here

[Groundhog]

Agree with commentary team, try get Harrison a quick 3 or attack the hoop.

[tarcone]

Make them run off 10 seconds then foul

[bronconick]

Some serious incompetence in the last 5 minutes for officiating

[Groundhog]

Good job milking 4 seconds there.

[tarcone]

wow A wesome

[Groundhog]

It's kinda a shame we don't get Towns-Okafor, but great game by Wisconsin. The bad calls went both ways IMO.

[Atocep]

I know Cal isn't exactly known for his X's and O's, but really?

[Thomkal]

Thank you Wisconsin

[bronconick]

That offense imploded in the last 5 minutes. Run the clock to 5 seconds, and throw up junk.

[Buccaneer]

WOOHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[tarcone]

I would love to see the B1G win the football and basketball championships.

[Glengoyne]

It's kinda a shame we don't get Towns-Okafor, but great game by Wisconsin. The bad calls went both ways IMO.

Yup bad calls for all

[mauchow]

Waaahhhoooooooo!!! Indeed.

Wow....

Final four last year was great
...
Beating Kentucky thus ending undefeated season....wow.. just wow.

One more game. A rematch. Duke shot almost 70% in first matchup.

[miami_fan]

Congrats to Wisconsin for playing a great game. Bust Duke's ass in the championship game.

Congrats to Kentucky on a great season. 38 wins is 38 wins.

[nol]

Yup bad calls for all

They went more in Wisconsin's favor, but Kentucky lost it when the Harrisons stayed in over Ullis to close the game.

[Buccaneer]

This made my whole college hoops season - all I wanted was Kentucky to lose and having one of my favorite teams to do it was a bonus.

[tarcone]

As much as I dislike Bo Ryan, he is a hell of a good coach.

[ColtCrazy]

This made my whole college hoops season - all I wanted was Kentucky to lose and having one of my favorite teams to do it was a bonus.

This x infinity.


Love it!!!!!!! Think my son and I may go hang out in Indy on Monday just for fun.

[hoopsguy]

I know Cal isn't exactly known for his X's and O's, but really?

The Harrisons' hit so much shit last year at end of games. It was nice to see them go to that well one too many times.

[EagleFan]

Ugh x's 2...

Duke loses to Kentucky... Duke beats Wisconsin... this is going to suck.

If Michigan State wins, then I like Wisconsin beating Kentucky.

[NobodyHere]

Congrats to Wisconsin for playing a great game. Bust Duke's ass in the championship game.

Congrats to Kentucky on a great season. 38 wins is 38 wins.

Hope is kindled

[ColtCrazy]

I love how Calipari is saying he doesn't think a team can do this with the schedule they played. Uh…you played in the SEC.

[lungs]

:)

That's all I got

[Kodos]

I know I am usually a detractor with Wisconsin, but.... THANK YOU, BADGERS! GO BEAT DUKE!

[MrBug708]

It's still 11-8

[mauchow]

Honestly though, other than two mini runs from Kentucky, Wisconsin outplayed and controlled way more of it.

Neither teams fans should have never felt comfortable though, regardless. I know i didnt until up four with the ball.

[Eaglesfan27]

This made my whole college hoops season - all I wanted was Kentucky to lose and having one of my favorite teams to do it was a bonus.

Big plus 1. Great game to watch :)

[Subby]

This made my whole college hoops season - all I wanted was Kentucky to lose and having one of my favorite teams to do it was a bonus.
This has to be the most predictable post of the month. If there was a Bucc prediction market I would be SO FUCKING RICH.

[Atocep]

From watching Kentucky this year I think Towns is a better NBA prospect than Okafor. I don't see the Harrison twins as NBA players. Cauley-Stein can probably stay in NBA for 10 years as a defensive big. Lyles looks like a guy that could either end up a multi-time all star or out of the league in 3 years depending on how he develops.

[nol]

From watching Kentucky this year I think Towns is a better NBA prospect than Okafor. I don't see the Harrison twins as NBA players. Cauley-Stein can probably stay in NBA for 10 years as a defensive big. Lyles looks like a guy that could either end up a multi-time all star or out of the league in 3 years depending on how he develops.

It reminds me of Parker vs. Wiggins last year where both Duke guys were supposed to be so much more polished offensively to make up for their defensive and athletic shortcomings, but it turned out that Towns and Wiggins could score effectively as well.

The pendulum has swung a little too far the other way on Okafor where people seem to think he'll need to play alongside a Serge Ibaka-like player to be effective, but he'll be fine too.

[Groundhog]

Okafor is a creative offensive player, but I think I'd take Towns at #1. He's raw but he's already got an NBA-style post game.

[Izulde]

Thrilled to see the home state knock off Kentucky. Only caught the second half because I was out to coffee with someone, but still an awesome finish.

Now if only I didn't have to teach during the game Monday night.

[Groundhog]

Yeah, I gotta record the final and somehow avoid all social media so I can watch the replay when I get home.

[Lathum]

UK players keeping it classy

Andrew Harrison on Frank Kaminsky after Kentucky's loss to Wisconsin: 'F*** that n****' - SBNation.com (http://www.sbnation.com/2015/4/5/8346723/kentuckys-andrew-harrison-on-frank-kaminsky-after-kentuckys-loss-to)

And willie cauley stein, who by all accounts is a good guy, walking off the court and to the locker room as soon as the final buzzer hits