The official NCAA tournament thread

[Lathum]

Best three weeks in sports. Discuss.

[Chief Rum]

The NCAA probably just handed Steve Alford another 2-3 years at his UCLA gig. Much to the depression of us fans following along.

[rowech]

How Dayton only gets an 11 seed is beyond me. Then they give them a home game with the play-in? Seems absurd.

[Lathum]

How Dayton only gets an 11 seed is beyond me. Then they give them a home game with the play-in? Seems absurd.

Yeah. That whole situation is silly. At least make ucla the play in

[Lathum]

Dola
Dayton has a very short squad with only six scholarship players and now they have a short turn around.

[JonInMiddleGA]

UCLA was the last team in to dodge a play-in ... but if UConn had gotten the upset then apparently Dayton would have stayed home entirely

2015 NCAA Tournament: Selection committee releases 1-68 ranking - CBSSports.com (http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/eye-on-college-basketball/25109120/ncaa-tournament-selection-committee-releases-1-68-ranking)

[Jas_lov]

Which is a joke. If Dayton had beaten VCU today would VCU had been in danger of missing the tournament? UCLA shouldn't have been in at all.

They shouldn't make the teams that won automatic bids play the play in games. The last 8 at larges should play the play the four play in games. Then you at least make teams like UCLA and Texas play their way in.

[rowech]

I don't pay attention like I used to but all I kept seeing was Indiana was on the bubble and most likely out. Seems as if they were safe all the way?

[Groundhog]

I'm not surprised, but I don't see how Duke get a #1 seed over Virginia.

[SackAttack]

No Mizzou (lol), no UWGB, no interest. See you next year, NCAA.

[Kodos]

I don't pay attention like I used to but all I kept seeing was Indiana was on the bubble and most likely out. Seems as if they were safe all the way?

Looks like IU's poor run down the stretch wasn't weighed in much, while quality wins earlier in the season were.

[corbes]

They shouldn't make the teams that won automatic bids play the play in games. The last 8 at larges should play the play the four play in games.

+1

[Atocep]

Dayton was the last at-large team to get in. Ridiculous.

The NCAA needs to move on from the bullshit it's been looking at for 20 years and actually embrace the plethora of data available today.

[Karlifornia]

No Mizzou (lol), no UWGB, no interest. See you next year, NCAA.

Bye!

[JonInMiddleGA]

I'm not surprised, but I don't see how Duke get a #1 seed over Virginia.

There's really no justification for UVA ahead of Duke at this point.

They're a half game different in record (29-4 vs 29-3) ...
Duke has SOS of 9, UVA 27.
Duke RPI 5, UVA 7.
Duke beat them head to head at UVA.

And that's without even considering the state of the Cavs with Anderson's health issues.

[RainMaker]

How did UCLA get in?

[JonInMiddleGA]

Which is a joke. If Dayton had beaten VCU today would VCU had been in danger of missing the tournament? UCLA shouldn't have been in at all.

I can't really defend UCLA being in ... but if Ole Miss & LSU are tournament teams then anything is possible.

Truth is, 68 is 4 too many.

[RainMaker]

I mean even if UCLA gets in, they should have been in the play-in game.

[MrBug708]

How did UCLA get in?

Those four letters...

U.C.L.A.

[tarcone]

The NCAA probably just handed Steve Alford another 2-3 years at his UCLA gig. Much to the depression of us fans following along.

Enjoy! It will take him that long to run the program into the abyss. Hope UCLA doesnt hire a Todd Lickliter type coach next. Then you will see what the bottom looks like.

Iowa could face Iowa State in the elite 8 and then UNI in the final 4. In theory anyway.

[MizzouRah]

Kentucky runs the table?

[Lathum]

You have to assume they do.

[cartman]

Nate Silver gives them a 41% chance.

2015 March Madness Predictions | FiveThirtyEight (http://fivethirtyeight.com/interactives/march-madness-predictions-2015/#mens)

[EagleFan]

Temple got robbed.

[Chief Rum]

So Gottlieb goes off on UCLA getting in, saying they got demolished by Arizona twice (they didn't even get demolished once), and then 15 minutes later, he picks them to beat higher seed SMU in the first round.

What a lousy toad of an analyst.

[cuervo72]

Nate Silver gives them a 41% chance.

2015 March Madness Predictions | FiveThirtyEight (http://fivethirtyeight.com/interactives/march-madness-predictions-2015/#mens)

That bracket is cool yet at the same time hella annoying, as I can't see the center of it when scrolled down to the teams at the bottom. My laptop screen just isn't large enough.

edit: yeah, it works if I tell FF to zoom out. PITA though.

[digamma]

Poor Yale. Last Saturday night they're less than 2 seconds from an NCAA bid. Yesterday they're less than 2 minutes from an NCAA bid and lose on a shot with 7 seconds left. Today they get snubbed by the NIT and were too late to sign up for the CBI and CIT because they waited for the NIT selections.

Pulled hard against them yesterday but this is rough for that team. They deserved more games.

[Chief Rum]

Poor Yale. Last Saturday night they're less than 2 seconds from an NCAA bid. Yesterday they're less than 2 minutes from an NCAA bid and lose on a shot with 7 seconds left. Today they get snubbed by the NIT and were too late to sign up for the CBI and CIT because they waited for the NIT selections.

Pulled hard against them yesterday but this is rough for that team. They deserved more games.

Why would the CBI and CIT finalize their fields before the NIT announced its field? That just seems terribly stupid.

[molson]

I read that Oregon St., TCU, and Cal turned down the CBI after not getting into the NIT, and that CBI was actually scrambling until pretty late Sunday night to find willing teams to pay the entry fee. So they end up with 15-17 Colorado instead of any of several better power conference teams that didn't make the NIT, and Seattle, who was #280 in the RPI.

The CIT is the one that signs mid-majors up even before the NCAA tournament field is announced. Dartmouth was in at some point even before today. Not sure when it filled up.

With those two tournaments I think it's just more about selling those spots and whatever works schedule and geography-wise. You'd think there has to be other NIT-bubble teams that get left out and are willing to play in another tournament, but maybe all those deals are made before today, and Yale just decided it was NIT or bust.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Why would the CBI and CIT finalize their fields before the NIT announced its field? That just seems terribly stupid.

Aren't those both pretty much pay-to-play?

As long as they're getting paid by somebody, I'm not sure how much they care who the checks are from.

edit to add: Molson was posting pretty much the same thing while I was typing I guess

[JonInMiddleGA]

The 12 auto-bids for the NIT surely had to hamper Yale's chances (along with Michigan's and some others I guess). Of the 12, 10 are lowest seeds possible (all 4 8's, all 4 7's and 2 of the 6's are autobid teams).

Only Murray State & La Tech would have gotten in otherwise, based on the seedings.

[molson]

It's somewhat amusing that in a year with no Syracuse in the tournament, both Albany and Buffalo are in, and the East Regional final will be in Syracuse.

[SackAttack]

Truth is, 68 is 4 too many.

More or less how I feel. I don't mind an expanded tournament from 64, but the reality seems to be that the extra 4 seeds go to power conference schools while the mid-major conference champions have to play-in just to play with the "big boys."

Fuck the "big boys," if that's how they're gonna play it. Get rid of those 4 seeds, put those four power conference coaches back on the hot seat, and let's play.

[digamma]

I read that Oregon St., TCU, and Cal turned down the CBI after not getting into the NIT, and that CBI was actually scrambling until pretty late Sunday night to find willing teams to pay the entry fee. So they end up with 15-17 Colorado instead of any of several better power conference teams that didn't make the NIT, and Seattle, who was #280 in the RPI.

The CIT is the one that signs mid-majors up even before the NCAA tournament field is announced. Dartmouth was in at some point even before today. Not sure when it filled up.

With those two tournaments I think it's just more about selling those spots and whatever works schedule and geography-wise. You'd think there has to be other NIT-bubble teams that get left out and are willing to play in another tournament, but maybe all those deals are made before today, and Yale just decided it was NIT or bust.

Right on the CIT. They secure commitments early.

Not clear what happened on the CBI. The Hartford paper says Yale wasn't invited. I would think they were approached earlier in the day with a commit and you're in and wanted to wait out the NIT process. Not clear what happened after. It doesn't make sense to me that they would have turned down a slot after the NIT selection. First their coach's reaction was one of shock their season wasn't continuing. Second they played in one of those tournaments last year so they're typically willing to pay the cash.

[MizzouRah]

You have to assume they do.

The scary thing to me is.. I'm not sure we have seen the best from them yet. :eek:

Their 2nd team could make the tournament.

[Buccaneer]

It's somewhat amusing that in a year with no Syracuse in the tournament, both Albany and Buffalo are in, and the East Regional final will be in Syracuse.

Speculatively, would the Orange have been around a 12-seed?

[britrock88]

Speculatively, would the Orange have been around a 12-seed?

Nah, they were NIT-quality this year, anyhow.

[cartman]

FOFC Colossal Squid bracket challenge on Yahoo! is set up again. For those who participated last year, you should get an invite.

Group Invitation | Tourney Pick'em | Yahoo Sports (https://yho.com/tourney?g=122225&k=45ef9cb1099681c0)
pwd: trout

[Marmel]

Nah, they were NIT-quality this year, anyhow.

Not so fast....if they were given a chance to play in the ACC tournament, they would have opened with Clemson, then got another shot at Virginia, most likely. Beat Clemson would keep them on the bubble. Beating Virginia would have put them in the tournament.

Probably an NIT team, but they had wins vs Iowa (10 seed?) Notre Dame (3 seed), Louisville (4 seed), OT loss vs Villanova (1 seed - which apparently matters, see the talking heads response on why UCLA got in...they played AZ close????).

Bottom line, they had a decent chance.

[Butter]

Dayton fans are a bit up in arms about this. I guess we should feel happy to be in and have a home game, but we are feeling snubbed that we were literally the last team in and a team like Ole Miss that we actually played and beat was seeded ahead of us.

In the brief interviews I heard with the NCAA Selection guy, he sounded clueless. He was almost unable to have a conversation around anything like "metrics" and was instead quoting things like the "eye test"? Why not just come straight out and say that the system is designed to leave out anyone outside of the Power 5 unless you have an AMAZING year or kowtow to play Power 5 teams in straight road games with no return guarantee.

When you are given no feedback about where anyone stands and the seeds below a 7 or so seem to have been done with a dartboard, then that makes it real hard for anyone that's not a Power 5 team to feel like they should have any faith in the system.

At any rate, I suppose I should just be grateful that UD is in. I have my ticket already for Wednesday night so will be there to hopefully cheer UD on to victory.

Frankly though, as someone noted since UD only plays 7 players, was hoping they might get a few days off before having to play 2 games in 3 days. Now they get a tougher 2nd round game if they can even get past a team that is probably also feeling pretty snubbed itself.

[Butter]

Not to mention how this sucks for Boise State to have to be in this situation also.

[Lathum]

I don't get the Dayton thing either, no way they should have been last team in. And it really screws BSU having to fly 2K miles and play a road game.

[Chief Rum]

I feel bad for the teams that are barely in and barely out. Feeling bad for the barely out should be obvious, and the barely in because they pretty much all get their "qualifications" questioned for four days.

I'm not going to breakdown who is better, if Dayton should be in clearly, if Indiana or Ole Miss or UCLA or Texas should be in the play in game or out of the tournament in place of Murray State or Colorado State or whomever.

I'll just say, everyone in this conversation is in the conversation legitimately. As in, you may not believe that UCLA should be in, but they did enough to be in the conversation, with respect to RPI, schedule, opponents faced, how they finished, etc. The same goes for all the others. They may not all deserve to be tournament teams because only 68 get in (and something like 12-16 of those are auto bid small teams), but they all are close enough to be considered, so they all had at least solid seasons.

And second, we're talking 11-12 seeds here. These guys aren't going anywhere. They can pull off an upset here and there, but none of these teams are even getting to the Final Four, much less threatening to win a championship.

[Butter]

I feel bad for the teams that are barely in and barely out. Feeling bad for the barely out should be obvious, and the barely in because they pretty much all get their "qualifications" questioned for four days.

I'm not going to breakdown who is better, if Dayton should be in clearly, if Indiana or Ole Miss or UCLA or Texas should be in the play in game or out of the tournament in place of Murray State or Colorado State or whomever.

I'll just say, everyone in this conversation is in the conversation legitimately. As in, you may not believe that UCLA should be in, but they did enough to be in the conversation, with respect to RPI, schedule, opponents faced, how they finished, etc. The same goes for all the others. They may not all deserve to be tournament teams because only 68 get in (and something like 12-16 of those are auto bid small teams), but they all are close enough to be considered, so they all had at least solid seasons.

And second, we're talking 11-12 seeds here. These guys aren't going anywhere. They can pull off an upset here and there, but none of these teams are even getting to the Final Four, much less threatening to win a championship.

Of course that's your attitude, because you're a UCLA fan. But for teams like Dayton, just being able to compete against teams that won't give them the time of day normally (see Ohio State) is a big deal. Getting to the Elite 8 last year is a HUGE FUCKING DEAL.

Having the ability to win a couple of games and get to the Sweet 16 means something to us. It might not mean dick to an outsider, but it means a hell of a lot to a program whose main claim to fame is that we took UCLA to triple overtime in a tournament game during their 70's heyday, and lost to UCLA in a title game in the sixties.... Otherwise, UD was most prominent when the NIT was a big deal.

Just having Dayton's name in the spotlight for two weeks last year was probably the highlight of my sports fandom (outside of the 1990 Reds World Series title) because we finally got credit for something besides being that place that is so boring that people will show up to watch North Florida and Robert Morris play.

[Butter]

Also noticed on 538 that UD is the second most-likely double-digit seed to make the Sweet 16 and third most likely to make the Elite 8 thanks to our draw, so I guess I should be glad that we didn't end up an 8 in Kentucky's bracket or something.

[Lathum]

And second, we're talking 11-12 seeds here. These guys aren't going anywhere. They can pull off an upset here and there, but none of these teams are even getting to the Final Four, much less threatening to win a championship.

Not really sure how you can say that given the number of lower seeds that have made runs in recent years.

[gstelmack]

If you don't win your conference tourney, just be happy to be there, and shut up if you're not.

[Chief Rum]

Of course that's your attitude, because you're a UCLA fan. But for teams like Dayton, just being able to compete against teams that won't give them the time of day normally (see Ohio State) is a big deal. Getting to the Elite 8 last year is a HUGE FUCKING DEAL.

Having the ability to win a couple of games and get to the Sweet 16 means something to us. It might not mean dick to an outsider, but it means a hell of a lot to a program whose main claim to fame is that we took UCLA to triple overtime in a tournament game during their 70's heyday, and lost to UCLA in a title game in the sixties.... Otherwise, UD was most prominent when the NIT was a big deal.

Just having Dayton's name in the spotlight for two weeks last year was probably the highlight of my sports fandom (outside of the 1990 Reds World Series title) because we finally got credit for something besides being that place that is so boring that people will show up to watch North Florida and Robert Morris play.

I hear ya. Dayton does deserve better.

For what it's worth, UCLA's inclusion in this tournament is a very mixed bag for us Bruins fans. Of course, we're thrilled to make the tournament. We'll always root for the kids on the team and the university they represent.

But no one believes Alford is a good coach. In fact, he's kinda terrible, as a coach, as a person, as a personnel manager, as a scout and as a recruiter. And he's arrogant. And an extremely blind nepotist. He's one of the worst coach/human beings in basketball, as far as I can tell from afar.

He might have been fired today (or after the NIT), if he hadn't made the tourney. The nation would have vilified UCLA and its overblown" expectations because they don't understand that this was a Mike Gillespie, Mike Doherty situation at a blue blood school. That he is that bad.

But those following the program and college basketball junkies (especially out west) and in general basketball insiders/reporters and so forth all understand what kinda shit Alford is dealing at UCLA.

Making the tournament means we're stuck with him for probably 2-3 more seasons. It will be awful. Steve Lavin awful. Worse.

I am reduced to hoping/praying that his son inexplicably puts his name in for the draft.

[Chief Rum]

Not really sure how you can say that given the number of lower seeds that have made runs in recent years.

Sure I can. None of those lower seeds have won a championship.

[Lathum]

Sure I can. None of those lower seeds have won a championship.

Well then I guess the tournament should be cut to 8-10 teams.

And you said not going anywhere, VCU made a final 4 a few years ago. Worked out pretty well for them.

[britrock88]

VCU won 5 games to get to the Final Four 4 years ago.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Strength of Schedule

Dayton 113
Boise 130
BYU 75
Ole Miss 49
-----------
UCLA 29
Texas 15
Georgia 33
Ohio State 74

Notice any trend there?

edit to add: Looking at the SOS ratings, I'm a little surprised that Richmond wasn't in tbh.
Looks a bit like RPI got some teams in and SOS influenced the seeding afterwards

[Chief Rum]

Well then I guess the tournament should be cut to 8-10 teams.

And you said not going anywhere, VCU made a final 4 a few years ago. Worked out pretty well for them.

The point of the tournament is to win the championship. A travesty would be if a team can win the national title but is on the bubble to even get into the tourney. Since no #12 or #11 seed has won the championship, we can figure that arguing their merits in or out is a relatively pointless exercise, wouldn't you say?

This is why the BCS was ridiculous. The third team in most years was plenty capable of winning the championship, and frankly the fifth team is, too, which is why, eventually, the playoff field for football will be expanded. But it is better to argue between the fourth-fifth team than the second-third, and better the eighth-ninth than the fourth-fifth. And of course better to be arguing over the 68th and 69 team. The point is to make the point of exclusion past the point where we can realistically expect all teams capable of winning it all to be included. Once we reach that point, any discussion of the teams on the border is pretty much pointless.

Dropping it to 8-10 teams is, of course, ridiculous and I know you only say that to goad me. There are teams outside of the top 8-10 that can win it and have won it.

And your example is just the exception that proves the rule. Every year, there are four #11 and #12 seeds, going way back to when the field was expanded in the early 80s. Eight teams per year, 30 years, 240 total teams. Only one team in all that time even made it to the Final Four.

[Young Drachma]

I'm always fine with teams on the NCAA bubble getting snubbed because we're talking the 69th and 70th plus teams in the country. Football is more egregious because of all of the useless games that get played that could be replaced for playoff games. But for college basketball, they obviously have a major conference preference but it's better than it was and it's better than it could be, even if it's lame.

[Marmel]

The point of the tournament is to win the championship.

I would argue this point with you. The point of the tournament for UCLA, or Kentucky, or most other top 25 teams is to win the tournament. However, the great thing about the tournament is that it accomplishes so many other things. For some schools/kids, just getting to play that 1 game in the tournament is a dream come true. For others, it is making a run to the 2nd weekend. For others, a Final 4 is a major accomplishment. This is why the tournament is so much better than any other playoff.

VCU's run to the Final 4 did amazing things for that program and springboarded them to the group that plays to win it all. If they didn't sneak in and get a chance, nobody who know who Shaka Smart was and their recruiting would not be as good I would argue. You gotta start somewhere! We weren't all born with a John Wooden legacy behind us.

I'm not all upset about the snubs this year. Temple/UCLA is a borderline case. Other years had much worst snubs.

[Chief Rum]

I would argue this point with you. The point of the tournament for UCLA, or Kentucky, or most other top 25 teams is to win the tournament. However, the great thing about the tournament is that it accomplishes so many other things. For some schools/kids, just getting to play that 1 game in the tournament is a dream come true. For others, it is making a run to the 2nd weekend. For others, a Final 4 is a major accomplishment. This is why the tournament is so much better than any other playoff.

VCU's run to the Final 4 did amazing things for that program and springboarded them to the group that plays to win it all. If they didn't sneak in and get a chance, nobody who know who Shaka Smart was and their recruiting would not be as good I would argue. You gotta start somewhere! We weren't all born with a John Wooden legacy behind us.

I'm not all upset about the snubs this year. Temple/UCLA is a borderline case. Other years had much worst snubs.

I am not saying it doesn't do other things or that the tournament means the same thing to every program or person involved. I am just stating the simple fact: the tournament is in place to determine a national champion.

[rowech]

Strength of Schedule

Dayton 113
Boise 130
BYU 75
Ole Miss 49
-----------
UCLA 29
Texas 15
Georgia 33
Ohio State 74

Notice any trend there?

edit to add: Looking at the SOS ratings, I'm a little surprised that Richmond wasn't in tbh.
Looks a bit like RPI got some teams in and SOS influenced the seeding afterwards

Just because you play a lot of good teams doesn't mean you are one.

[Lathum]

I am not saying it doesn't do other things or that the tournament means the same thing to every program or person involved. I am just stating the simple fact: the tournament is in place to determine a national champion.

But your comments regarding why we ar even discussing these bubble teams minimize their accomplishment of making it in.

[Chief Rum]

But your comments regarding why we ar even discussing these bubble teams minimize their accomplishment of making it in.

Sorry?

[JonInMiddleGA]

Just because you play a lot of good teams doesn't mean you are one.

But a good record built against a steady diet of mediocre teams doesn't mean you're good either.

At the risk of repeating myself, 68 teams is too many.

[Butter]

But a good record built against a steady diet of mediocre teams doesn't mean you're good either.

At the risk of repeating myself, 68 teams is too many.

What about a mediocre record built against a steady diet of mediocre teams, with also some good teams thrown in... with you being able to beat the good teams about 1-in-5 tries? .200 against good teams and .900 against everyone else is just fine this year, it seems.

Point is, make some rules and stick to them... because as it is now no one knows from year to year what the committee is going to emphasize. Top-50 wins? Or just games against the top-50? Non-conference strength of schedule? Or just any strength of schedule? Conference results? Or the "eye test"?

[molson]

I think the tournament field has grown pretty proportionally with the growth of the number of teams in division 1. And it's fun to get little windows into the wacky diversity that still exists in college basketball. Like there's always at least one giant fat player, one guy with crazy hair, a coach who dresses terribly. The tournament has it all.

[JonInMiddleGA]

What about a mediocre record built against a steady diet of mediocre teams, with also some good teams thrown in... with you being able to beat the good teams about 1-in-5 tries? .200 against good teams and .900 against everyone else is just fine this year, it seems.

Point is, make some rules and stick to them... because as it is now no one knows from year to year what the committee is going to emphasize. Top-50 wins? Or just games against the top-50? Non-conference strength of schedule? Or just any strength of schedule? Conference results? Or the "eye test"?

The committee is free to consider all of those factors (and numerous others). As they should be afaic. It's part science, it's part art.

Not sure why that's such a difficult concept really.

[Butter]

The committee is free to consider all of those factors (and numerous others). As they should be afaic. It's part science, it's part art.

Not sure why that's such a difficult concept really.

Not sure why it's such a difficult concept for the committee to apply any of these factors consistently and evenly across different years.

[Kodos]

The "eye test" is crap.

[gstelmack]

I am just stating the simple fact: the tournament is in place to determine a national champion.

Well, not really. The tournament is in place to earn a truckload of money. Awarding the national champion is just the means to get there.

[Chief Rum]

Well, not really. The tournament is in place to earn a truckload of money. Awarding the national champion is just the means to get there.

Good gawd, people. I'm just saying the purpose of the tournament, the literal stated purpose, is to produce a champion. It's not hard to figure this out. I'm not talking about all the other stuff that goes into that.

[Lathum]

Good gawd, people. I'm just saying the purpose of the tournament, the literal stated purpose, is to produce a champion. It's not hard to figure this out. I'm not talking about all the other stuff that goes into that.

Do you think are too many teams?

[Chief Rum]

Do you think are too many teams?

To reach the stated purpose of the tournament? Yes, I think that is likely.

But as y'all have pointed out, the tournament does more than its stated goal of producing a champion, with the money it generates and the buzz for the sport and all that. So the greater number of teams is probably better for that goal.

[cartman]

That was a wild BYU-Ole Miss game. Ole Miss was down 17 at one point but mounted a huge second half come back to win. March Madness is here!

[Butter]

Lot of BYU fans there last night. Almost 2 whole lower sections seemed to be BYU people, easily close to 1,000. By far the largest contingent of any of the 4 fan bases.

That said, when you give up 62 points in the second half, you can't expect to win even when you built a 17 point halftime lead. I think BYU was 60% shooting in the first half and Ole Miss was 60% in the second half. Ole Miss took 80 shots... 2 per minute! That's a lot of shots. It was an amazing game to attend.

[Lathum]

My boss who is a Dayton alum and season ticket holder said the cheapest ticket he could find on Stubhub was $100. the place is going to be 99% UD fans, feel pretty bad for Boise.

[Butter]

Ticket prices will fall off a cliff today, as people realize that the game is in like 12 hours or less.

Boise State was 8-5 on the road this year including winning at San Diego State, breaking a long home court winning streak they had. I don't feel too bad for them, as it turns out.

Look for me tonight, I'll be the guy wearing red and standing a lot.

[Kodos]

I hope UD has another good run this year.

[cartman]

FOFC Colossal Squid bracket challenge on Yahoo! is set up again. For those who participated last year, you should get an invite.

Group Invitation | Tourney Pick'em | Yahoo Sports (https://yho.com/tourney?g=122225&k=45ef9cb1099681c0)
pwd: trout

A little less than 24 hours left to join. The cutoff according to Yahoo! is 12:15pm Eastern tomorrow.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Waydowntown Bangs in

[Chief Rum]

Waydowntown Bangs in

Great, I now have my new porn name.

[Butter]

I hope UD has another good run this year.

That makes 2 of us! :D

[Lathum]

Whoa. Big no call at the end. Dayton showed a ton of heart.

[mauchow]

If he made an effort to shoot it sooner I bet it would have been called but by the time he shot it the defender already landed and was stationary... Once he's up, you shoot it right away. Just too slow. Too bad.

Good start to the tourney though w two good games.

[Lathum]

I agree but no one would have faulted the ref had he blew the whistle.

[Butter]

Easily the best home crowd I've ever been in. Holy shit that was fun.

Glad that free throw shooting didn't sink them.

[Thomkal]

Good luck to everyone's school participating in the tourney, especially that 16th seed out of Conway South Carolina. :)

[cartman]

about 45 minutes left to get your brackets entered.

[Lathum]

Notre Dame in foul trouble early and looking tight

[tarcone]

ND starting to pull away now. Too athletic.

ISU struggling a little early.

[Karlifornia]

Yeah, ND is too much for Northeastern, it looks like. They're going to have to hit some threes and force ND into some turnovers.

[Karlifornia]

Northeastern hanging tough....can they sneak it out?

[Lathum]

Shits getting real. ND always seems to be one of those teams that craps the bed. For whatever reason I thought this was the year they would buck this trend

[cartman]

Northeastern blew their chance right there

[Butter]

Yeah, they went away from the two guys who were doing it all for them, and it cost them.

[Butter]

Iowa State is getting killed on the boards.

[Butter]

2 really good games to open play.

[kingfc22]

Buh bye Iowa St.

[Lathum]

Wow, ISU, wow.

[Coffee Warlord]

Clearly I am a genius for picking UAB.

[Karlifornia]

Into the drink goes the USS Iowa State. I think I picked them for the final four. Shit.

[britrock88]

In my survivor pool, I switched my pick for today from ISU to ND last night.

...phew.

[Butter]

If all the 3-14 games are going to be this good, we're in for a hell of a tournament.

[cartman]

Looks like Turnover Texas showed up today

[tarcone]

ISU: Always screwing me over. Now I know why I hate them. Well, I always knew and it killed me today in one of my brackets and the Top Gun game here.

[cartman]

That was the essence of a lucky shot for Georgia State

[SirFozzie]

So.. Did the insanity of the day take down fofc?

[corbes]

I love Ron Hunter

[cartman]

There are no perfect brackets left in the FOFC Colossal Squid group

[Thomkal]

wow figured the Baylor game was over and stopped checking the score. I thought Baylor might be the only team from that conference to make it past round 3. what a choke job to lose to a small-school like that with such a big lead. Congrats to Georgia State however.

[molson]

I don't watch a lot of live sports but was lucky enough to catch both Georgia State's conference championship game and the game today. I also love Ron Hunter. The guy severely injuries himself celebrating one game with his son, and then awkwardly falls out of his chair and to the floor after his son's game winner the next game. You can't make this stuff up. I don't know who that lady was next to him the whole game that seemed to be in charge of making sure he didn't injure himself further, but I hope she gets a vacation after all this.

We had this little debate a couple of days ago but this is my favorite thing about the tournament - the little wacky stories from the wide diversity of schools that you'd never have a real window to without this tournament. I actually start to turn out when we get to the final 8.

[VPI97]

what a choke job to lose to a small-school like that
I know you're strictly speaking about school size in sports terms, but GSU is twice the size of Baylor from an enrollment standpoint.

[cartman]

That was the Texas season in a nutshell. Played great defense, just couldn't get any kind of sustained offense.

[tarcone]

I guess its a good day when ISU and Steve Alford lose. That would be a really good day for an Iowa fan.

[Thomkal]

I know you're strictly speaking about school size in sports terms, but GSU is twice the size of Baylor from an enrollment standpoint.


I did not know that. :)

[QuikSand]

College Basketball is just a better place with Larry Brown in it.

[Chief Rum]

I guess its a good day when ISU and Steve Alford lose. That would be a really good day for an Iowa fan.

Alford and son imitating the proverbial nuclear cockroach at the moment.

[Chief Rum]

Good Lord, all of a sudden Bryce can't miss.

[Chief Rum]

Wow, you gotta be kidding me. SMU handing UCLA a chance.

[bob]

I got my MBA at Georgia St - nice to see them get a win since GT can't be bothered to field a competitive team.

Fun note on Tech - they probably would have fired their coach this year, but they are still paying Paul Hewitt until the end of 2017 and can't afford to pay a third coach now. Speaking of Hewitt, George Mason just fired him. So now he's getting paid by two schools not to coach.

[Vince, Pt. II]

Radio guys making it sound like that goaltending call was bogus. Thoughts for those who saw it live?

[nol]

Radio guys making it sound like that goaltending call was bogus. Thoughts for those who saw it live?

Let's put it this way - if those refs were doing the 1983 championship game NC State would have lost due to a last-second offensive goaltending.

[bob]

To me at least, from the initial live TV sideline angle it looked like a bad call. But once they showed the overhead angle, it did look like it would have skipped off the back end of the rim if it hadn't been goal tended. In short, I think the ref got lucky.

[INDalltheway]

Pretty bogus. Didn't look like it would hit the rim.

[miami_fan]

Radio guys making it sound like that goaltending call was bogus. Thoughts for those who saw it live?

I have not searched for a replay, but it was looked like it was going to be short st first glance.

[INDalltheway]

To me at least, from the initial live TV sideline angle it looked like a bad call. But once they showed the overhead angle, it did look like it would have skipped off the back end of the rim if it hadn't been goal tended. In short, I think the ref got lucky.

I think the "overhead" view was a little deceiving.

[Chief Rum]

It was tough to tell. I tend to agree with bob's interpretation. The overhead angle made it look a lot more like it could have been goaltending.

Regardless, that shot was so bad, even Kobe said, "Man, I wouldna taken that."

[bob]

I'll grant that the overhead angle could have been deceiving. But I think its gives enough circumstantial evidence to prevent any conclusive claim that the call was botched.

[mckerney]

<video controls><source src="https://cdn.streamable.com/video/0d9e8ae0ce7f11e48240a11187e2faa1.webm"></video>

[Lathum]

Ole Miss never saw a three they didn't like.

[Chief Rum]

Hmm, it actually hits the rim after the SMU guy touched it and he didn't really alter the ball path from what I could tell. But even if he forced it onto the rim by the slimmest of touches, he still touched the ball on its way down to the rim and to possibly heading over the cylinder.

Assuming he touched the ball at all. That part, I am still not sure of.

Kind of an awful way to lose AND win a game. And no one really at fault, even the refs. Just the way it went.

[muns]

Hmm, it actually hits the rim after the SMU guy touched it and he didn't really alter the ball path from what I could tell. But even if he forced it onto the rim by the slimmest of touches, he still touched the ball on its way down to the rim and to possibly heading over the cylinder.

Assuming he touched the ball at all. That part, I am still not sure of.

Kind of an awful way to lose AND win a game. And no one really at fault, even the refs. Just the way it went.

If i'm a ref i'm not calling that. The kid clearly missed the shot. I'm not donating a win to a team on something like that. It changed the outcome. That's nutty to me.

[Chief Rum]

If i'm a ref i'm not calling that. The kid clearly missed the shot. I'm not donating a win to a team on something like that. It changed the outcome. That's nutty to me.

I agree. That was a crazy call to make, even if it is the right one.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Next year I gotta remember to check every roster for the presence of a coach's son before deciding upsets/chalk.

[nol]

Not only that, what kind of angle do you think this guy had?

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CAfdZGDUUAArUao.jpg

[Coffee Warlord]

Clearly I am a genius for picking UAB.

Clearly my genius left me when I picked Baylor...in the Final Four.

[muns]

Clearly my genius left me when I picked Baylor...in the Final Four.


I had texas in the sweet 16 :) so ya know, we aren't that far off base

[wade moore]

+1 if that makes you feel any better CW.

[BishopMVP]

Scott Drew and Rick Barnes are who we thought they were.

Still a crazy call in UCLA/SMU, but it sure looks like the UCLA guy would've been able to lay that in to tie the game, and SMU got 2 shots off.

VCU playing dirty? Shocker.

[Atocep]

Hmm, it actually hits the rim after the SMU guy touched it and he didn't really alter the ball path from what I could tell. But even if he forced it onto the rim by the slimmest of touches, he still touched the ball on its way down to the rim and to possibly heading over the cylinder.

Assuming he touched the ball at all. That part, I am still not sure of.

Kind of an awful way to lose AND win a game. And no one really at fault, even the refs. Just the way it went.

I could be wrong, but my understanding of the goaltending rule is the ball has to be entirely above the rim and have a possibility of going in.

That ball had no chance.

[Glengoyne]

Clearly my genius left me when I picked Baylor...in the Final Four.
Conversely, Baylor was a loss waiting to happen in my bracket, but Iowa state. Now that was a final four team.

Only one blemish on my bracket so far, but boy did it make a dent.

[VPI97]

Still a crazy call in UCLA/SMU, but it sure looks like the UCLA guy would've been able to lay that in to tie the game, and SMU got 2 shots off.
Yep. While I thought goaltending should not have been called, I also think that if the whistle hadn't blown, the UCLA kid who rebounded had an easy shot to tie it up. It's a bit disingenuous for anyone to say the goaltending cost SMU the game.

[nol]

Extremely impressive game from D'Angelo Russell with some nice defensive plays to go with the usual shooting and ball movement. I wouldn't be surprised if he's Rookie of the Year next year.

[miami_fan]

I agree with what Reggie just said. Blow the whistle, call the players and the coaches together and deal with it that way.

[Chief Rum]

I could be wrong, but my understanding of the goaltending rule is the ball has to be entirely above the rim and have a possibility of going in.

That ball had no chance.

Yeah, I don't know the rule either. I think push comes to shove though, the ball was coming down to the hoop and the guy jumped up to touch it. While it had virtually no chance to go in, he removed the possibility by touching it prematurely. Just a very weird play altogether.

[Glengoyne]

Conversely, Baylor was a loss waiting to happen in my bracket, but Iowa state. Now that was a final four team.

Only one blemish on my bracket so far, but boy did it make a dent.

So VCU was in my sweet sixteen. My bracket is showing an alarming amount of red.

[Buccaneer]

My son's (a March Madness fanatic) goal this year is not to miss a single game, apart from the today's earlier games because of school. Right now, he got three devices going at once including the March Madness Live app. He had an issue with that app and immediately got on the phone to call customer support.

He got Georgia State right but missed on VCU, SMU and ISU.

[Arles]

I have OKlahoma going into the elite 8 in one pool, after today's Big 12 showing - I'm a little worried.

[nol]

Harvard was hanging in there for a while, but UNC is only going to need to score 50 or so points to win.

[EagleFan]

Major beat down going on. The streak of no 16 seed winning will continue for a little longer at least.

[miami_fan]

Harvard was hanging in there for a while, but UNC is only going to need to score 50 or so points to win.

I have seen this UNC game about ten times this year.

[miami_fan]

Brutal last possession for Harvard.

[Thomkal]

Major beat down going on. The streak of no 16 seed winning will continue for a little longer at least.

Coastal Carolina plays tomorrow :)

[Thomkal]

Too bad about Harvard, love it when the Ivy gets a win against the big boys. Can't see North Carolina going any further in the tourney with that performance (they will now win the whole thing)

[tarcone]

Purdue loses in OT. Should have won that one.

[Lathum]

Purdue loses in OT. Should have won that one.

Glad to see my hometown team win, Purdue gave that one away

[Thomkal]

Hampton down 3-0...will likely be as close as they get to Kentucky, so they should celebrate now! :)

[Thomkal]

No wait its 4-3!

[Atocep]

I don't think Big 12 officiating does a very good job of preparing teams to play in the tournament. Coming from a league were breathing on someone is typically a foul Iowa State shot 7 free throws, Texas 11, and Baylor 13 today.

[Galaxy]

If Hampton could have made half of their missed shots so far, they would be in an even more interesting position right now.

[Arles]

I don't think Big 12 officiating does a very good job of preparing teams to play in the tournament. Coming from a league were breathing on someone is typically a foul Iowa State shot 7 free throws, Texas 11, and Baylor 13 today.
That may be why the Pac 12 is doing so well. We get complete crap refs most games so you had to learn to win when your team was half fouled out - and also when you shot 4 free throws all game.

[digamma]

Also helps when you get gifted games.


Separately, hell of an effort by the Crimson.

[Izulde]

Man, so many great games today.

[tarcone]

Wow. LSU, 0-6 on FTs down the stretch. Ended up losing by one.

[Glengoyne]

Well the evening is shaping up and matching my bracket. Now only if wofford and eastern Washington can keep it going.

[BishopMVP]

Wow. LSU, 0-6 on FTs down the stretch. Ended up losing by one.

Seriously, were they shaving points? Or did Mark Gottfried just out coach somebody that badly?

[nol]

Seriously, were they shaving points? Or did Mark Gottfried just out coach somebody that badly?

Looked like they were tanking for the #1 recruit.

[tarcone]

Im rooting for E. Washington. But the refs are letting the teams play physical and Geo town in just manhandling them. It may be a long night for E.Wash.

[SirFozzie]

Nice flop by Wofford trying to claim an elbow to the face

[kingfc22]

What a horrible last possession for Wofford. Attack the basket for the quick 2 and force Arkansas to make FT's.

[Karlifornia]

That may be why the Pac 12 is doing so well. We get complete crap refs most games so you had to learn to win when your team was half fouled out - and also when you shot 4 free throws all game.

I actually felt quite the opposite of this during Stanford's heyday. It seemed the PAC refs would call fouls for sneezing on someone, and then when they hit the tourney......the play got a lot rougher, and the refs didn't blow the whistle, and Stanford seemed shellshocked.

This was 10 years ago, so things have probably changed, but I remember thinking this vividly.

EDIT: Rereading your post, it seems we feel the same. Cheers, Arles!

[BishopMVP]

Looked like they were tanking for the #1 recruit.:lol:

I'm excited to see Simmons vs college kids since he was overshadowing D'Angelo Russell at Montverde, but I'm not exactly sure how much coaching he'll be getting at LSU...

[MrBug708]

Mixed feelings on this whole UCLA situation. Thrilled beyond belief to be moving on, but this probably means we are stuck with Alford for another couple years.

Goaltending was the right call by definition, but it certainly was a gray area as it wasn't going in. That being said, Looney had the rebound and was fouled on the rebound

[revrew]

My poor son. Both of his bracket's final 2 teams have now been eliminated. Welcome to March Madness, kiddo!

[britrock88]

What a horrible last possession for Wofford. Attack the basket for the quick 2 and force Arkansas to make FT's.

You think? IIRC, they got 2 pretty good looks from 3-point range. I'd take that--probably a 65-75% chance you tie it up in that scenario.

[tarcone]

Another exciting day ahead. Im looking forward to Iowa and UNI.

I hope all the Davidson bandwagon jumping gives Iowa some extra motivation.

[tarcone]

As for my comment on Davidson. I was driving to my daughters volleyball game and listening tot he games on the radio. They had a listener question segment during the game. The question was "Which Carolina team will make it farthest?"
The color guy says "Davidson. They are underappreciated." Or something like that.

So this guy has Davidson going further than Duke or UNC. LOL

[Thomkal]

ESPN has 272 "clean" brackets left out 11+ million.

[Lathum]

I get he sense early on Georgia may surprise MSU.

[BishopMVP]

You think? IIRC, they got 2 pretty good looks from 3-point range. I'd take that--probably a 65-75% chance you tie it up in that scenario.They did end up getting 1.5 really good looks from 3 (that first one was pristine), but it also made no sense why they took so long to get into a set - didn't they get the ball with 35 secs left, and first shot was at 8-9 secs to go? They had timeouts left too.

[Butter]

If Wyoming was supposed to be this awesome defensive team, they aren't showing it against UNI.

[albionmoonlight]

So many folks in my bracket challenge (including me) tried to be unconventional that very few of us actually have Kentucky winning it all. Puts the people who did pick Kentucky at a pretty good advantage.

[Karlifornia]

So many folks in my bracket challenge (including me) tried to be unconventional that very few of us actually have Kentucky winning it all. Puts the people who did pick Kentucky at a pretty good advantage.

Really? Geez. I hate picking the favorite most times, but even I had to acquiesce and pick the Cats. Hope 'm wrong, though :lol:

[Thomkal]

Too bad Buffalo

[Thomkal]

wow Virginia sure has problems against the 15th and 16th seeds last two years

[tarcone]

Im really looking forward to Wichita St./Kansas. Cant dodge them now Jayhawks.

[tarcone]

So close to losing Louisville. So close.

[Butter]

Thought that was a pretty bad no foul call in the UCI-Louisville game. Alas.

[Butter]

I've seen more teams in this tournament with the ball, down 3, with between 20 and 40 seconds left settle for bad 3 point attempts with time running out instead of extending the game than I would care to see for the rest of my life.

[tarcone]

That 1st 3 by Davidson was aided by the screener pushin g the defender off the ball.
Im not sure I like this ref crew.

[Thomkal]

Im really looking forward to Wichita St./Kansas. Cant dodge them now Jayhawks.

Have to say I hope Wichita stomps Kansas into the ground for refusing to play them now. At least then you might have a reason for not playing them Kansas.

[Thomkal]

I've seen more teams in this tournament with the ball, down 3, with between 20 and 40 seconds left settle for bad 3 point attempts with time running out instead of extending the game than I would care to see for the rest of my life.

Yeah been pretty bad today with Buffalo and Valpo looking horrible there at the end.

[tarcone]

Dang. Tonight the game feed is stopping and starting. The only game it has happened. Typical.

[tarcone]

Iowa by 9 at half. We were up by 15 at one point.
Exciting.

[tarcone]

Go Hawks!

[tarcone]

Woot! Iowa by 20 with 9 minutes left. Pro Davidson announcers suck.

[Thomkal]

Davidson a surprising flop

[Thomkal]

Coastal ahead of Wisconsin early 5-4. :)

[tarcone]

Not surprising to me. Iowa is long and pretty athletic. i didnt think a 31 point win, but I figured a win for sure.

GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!

[tarcone]

F all the "experts" that picked Davidson. UP YOURS!!!!!

[tarcone]

:banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana:

[tarcone]

Iowa set the record for margin of victory in a 7-10 match up.

[PilotMan]

Go BISON!

[PilotMan]

Well, we had a good 5 minutes. I knew we didn't have any kind of team to hang with anyone good for any length of time.

[Thomkal]

Coastal down by 15 at half. :(

[tarcone]

I really want ND St to win. Go Bison!

[Shoveler]

I really want ND St to win. Go Bison!

Same here, that's the game I'm watching.. doubtful it will happen, but would be a sweet upset.

[tarcone]

Providence/Dayton is 6-5 at the 12 minute mark. Wow. That is some 5th grade girls basketball bad.

[Arles]

The "crappy" Pac-12 started out 4-0 in the tourney. Kudos to my west coast brethren.

[PilotMan]

The boys are hangin' in there, and just when I was about to shut it off.

[tarcone]

Go Dayton!

[terpkristin]

Terps win looked ugly, but a W is a W at this point. They need to get their heads back in the game before the next game.

/tk

[MrBug708]

This game is the rematch of the seventh place game in Atlantis from back in November with a birth to the Sweet 16 on the line.

[EagleFan]

Can someone tell the talking heads that UCLA beating UAB to get to the Sweet 16 is less meaningful than their first victory of the tournament? They beat a team that they were supposed to beat, that is not a major accomplishment.

[tarcone]

I would love to face Alford. He left on bad terms. A lot of Iowa fans really dislike him. But Iowa needs to take of business against Gonzaga first.

[muns]

Can someone tell the talking heads that UCLA beating UAB to get to the Sweet 16 is less meaningful than their first victory of the tournament? They beat a team that they were supposed to beat, that is not a major accomplishment.

lol they gotta try and save face somehow here, might as well try to dig themselves out of it on air.

You are 100% spot on though.

[Brian Swartz]

Beating UAB isn't the great accomplishment, getting to the Sweet 16 is IMO bigger than winning the first round game in that sense.

[Karlifornia]

Cincinnati couldn't score on Kentucky if Cosby was the team pharmacist

[Butter]

Coastal down by 15 at half. :(

For what it's worth, of what I saw of the game I thought Coastal played them respectably, easily the best of the 16 seeds. Wisconsin is just a tough team to guard.

[muns]

I like the way Ohio State is playing in this game. Doing what they need to be doing here and playing smart tough basketball

[kingfc22]

Rooting for Ga St. This tourney needs more Ron Hunter moments.

[JPhillips]

DeAngelo Russell is a top five pick, but he looks like a freshman today. A lot of his shot choices have been bad. He's made up for some of that with his passing, but he looks like he needs a couple of years experience to really be great.

[MrBug708]

OSU is done. Arizona is killing them on the offensive boards

[JPhillips]

Does Brian Posehn play for Xavier?

[kingfc22]

Some sub par officiating in this Xavier/Ga St game. Weak calls against both teams here late.

Let the players play and decide this one.

[BishopMVP]

Not really the place for this, but I just saw Utah-Georgetown is tied at 32 at halftime and my first thought was "Wow, high-scoring game." Better people than I have made more in-depth arguments, but that tells me all I need to know. Please clean it up NCAA.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Not really the place for this, but I just saw Utah-Georgetown is tied at 32 at halftime and my first thought was "Wow, high-scoring game." Better people than I have made more in-depth arguments, but that tells me all I need to know. Please clean it up NCAA.

Utah entered the game 296/351 in possessions per game.
Georgetown was 162nd.

That's not likely to be a high scoring affair.

[BishopMVP]

Utah entered the game 296/351 in possessions per game.
Georgetown was 162nd.

That's not likely to be a high scoring affair.No, but unless it's UVa/Wisconsin I shouldn't be thinking a game on pace for 64-64 is acceptable, let alone high-scoring. Zero reason the shot shouldn't be 30 seconds (or less), zero reason the circle shouldn't be extended to four feet from the hoop. This season is the lowest scoring season in a long time, and the 10-15 early entries are no excuse when it's measured across 350 D1 teams.

[JonInMiddleGA]

No, but unless it's UVa/Wisconsin I shouldn't be thinking a game on pace for 64-64 is acceptable, let alone high-scoring. Zero reason the shot shouldn't be 30 seconds (or less), zero reason the circle shouldn't be extended to four feet from the hoop. This season is the lowest scoring season in a long time, and the 10-15 early entries are no excuse when it's measured across 350 D1 teams.

Far more interesting game to me when it isn't constant breakneck.

But hey, I didn't like the shot clock when it was introduced & still don't particularly care for it {shrug}

[Jas_lov]

Villanova exposed as frauds again. NC State controlled that game from start to finish. It was closer than it seemed because that one player hit a few miracle 3's at the end. Hopefully this opens the path for UNI.

[Lathum]

No, but unless it's UVa/Wisconsin I shouldn't be thinking a game on pace for 64-64 is acceptable, let alone high-scoring. Zero reason the shot shouldn't be 30 seconds (or less), zero reason the circle shouldn't be extended to four feet from the hoop. This season is the lowest scoring season in a long time, and the 10-15 early entries are no excuse when it's measured across 350 D1 teams.

You must not watch much college hoops. Games in the 60s are pretty much the norm. Not sure why you are surprised.

[britrock88]

Villanova exposed as frauds again. NC State controlled that game from start to finish. It was closer than it seemed because that one player hit a few miracle 3's at the end. Hopefully this opens the path for UNI.

I'm cool with Northern Iowa making a run...

but Villanova as frauds? I think that was just a case of an offensive juggernaut having a cold, cold night.

[tarcone]

Im on the UNI train. I would love to see a UNI, Iowa Final 4 game.

[rowech]

I'm cool with Northern Iowa making a run...

but Villanova as frauds? I think that was just a case of an offensive juggernaut having a cold, cold night.

Last six seasons, out in first or second round or not in the tournament.

[Lathum]

Notre Dame Fighting Irish coach Mike Brey's mom dies hours before team played Butler Bulldogs in NCAA tournament - ESPN (http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/tournament/2015/story/_/id/12536157/notre-dame-fighting-irish-coach-mike-brey-mom-dies-hours-team-played-butler-bulldogs-ncaa-tournament)

[Lathum]

Not really the place for this, but I just saw Utah-Georgetown is tied at 32 at halftime and my first thought was "Wow, high-scoring game." Better people than I have made more in-depth arguments, but that tells me all I need to know. Please clean it up NCAA.

A quick count shows 225 of 351 NCAA teams average in the 60s.

[tarcone]

Fun day ahead. Wichita St./Kansas, Iowa/Gonzaga, UNI/Louisville are top on my list.

[EagleFan]

but Villanova as frauds?

Realize the source...

[EagleFan]

Last six seasons, out in first or second round or not in the tournament.

2015 - big disappointment as a 1
2014 - Eliminated in 2nd round by the eventual champs
2013 - Not in
2012 - Not in
2011 - Lost in 1st round as a 9 seed
2010 - Disappointing 2nd round loss

Yes, bad results but compare that to most teams and you would see worse results. Does not equal the OP's fraud statement. But again, consider the source...

[EagleFan]

This Michigan State / Virginia game is painful to watch.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Either we have a sportswriter incognito here at FOFC or the Fraud label for 'Nova isn't exactly lonely ground to walk on.

Villanova Must Live with Underachievers Label After Latest NCAA Tournament Flop | Bleacher Report (http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2405015-villanova-must-live-with-underachievers-label-after-latest-ncaa-tournament-flop)

[EagleFan]

Either we have a sportswriter incognito here at FOFC or the Fraud label for 'Nova isn't exactly lonely ground to walk on.

Villanova Must Live with Underachievers Label After Latest NCAA Tournament Flop | Bleacher Report (http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2405015-villanova-must-live-with-underachievers-label-after-latest-ncaa-tournament-flop)

Difference between underachievers and frauds.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Difference between underachievers and frauds.

It's a fine line between those things too.

In any case, just pointing out that this wasn't something unique to an FOFC poster.

And at some point you either have to look at the coach, the players or the scheduling (as USA Today did this weekend).

[EagleFan]

In any case, just pointing out that this wasn't something unique to an FOFC poster.


It was unique. Again, difference between calling someone a fraud and calling them an underachiever. It's not a fine line, unless you know of people who have been locked up on the charge of underachieving.

[Chief Rum]

It was unique. Again, difference between calling someone a fraud and calling them an underachiever. It's not a fine line, unless you know of people who have been locked up on the charge of underachieving.

No, it's not. Fraud is harsh. But it's not unapplicable to Nova. They have consistently underperformed to their talent.

[EagleFan]

Fraud requires the entity being accused of being a fraud to perpetuate said fraud. The team isn't the one that made the seeds and rankings. They underperformed based on other people's expectations. No fraud is occurring.

To see the definition of a fraud in sports terms look up Andrew Bynum.

[mckerney]

Fraud requires the entity being accused of being a fraud to perpetuate said fraud. The team isn't the one that made the seeds and rankings. They underperformed based on other people's expectations. No fraud is occurring.

To see the definition of a fraud in sports terms look up Andrew Bynum.

Fraud can mean whatever you want it to when making Scorching Hot Takes.

[JPhillips]

I hate this tournament. Eventually I'm going to have to pick a perfect season for UK or an upset for Duke.

[kingfc22]

Big 12 = Fraud

[muns]

Fraud requires the entity being accused of being a fraud to perpetuate said fraud. The team isn't the one that made the seeds and rankings. They underperformed based on other people's expectations. No fraud is occurring.

To see the definition of a fraud in sports terms look up Andrew Bynum.

I don't see them as frauds, however i'm willing to put the 4 guard system as a failed experiment that does not translate into wins when you need it the most.

You need some bigs in the tourney, and they don't play that way.

[Logan]

2015 - big disappointment as a 1
2014 - Eliminated in 2nd round by the eventual champs
2013 - Not in
2012 - Not in
2011 - Lost in 1st round as a 9 seed
2010 - Disappointing 2nd round loss

Yes, bad results but compare that to most teams and you would see worse results. Does not equal the OP's fraud statement. But again, consider the source...

Take the population of teams who have been a #1 and a #2 seed in six years of tournaments and my guess is that they would have a much higher level of success in that time period than what Villanova has shown. And let's not forget, in 2010 that should have been a first round exit to #15 seed Robert Morris. One of the most horrifically officiated games in tourney history.

[MrBug708]

Kansas gone.

Iowa not playing much defense now

[Lathum]

Gonzaga cant miss

[Abe Sargent]

This has been a good game for a long time. Even though I want WVu to win, obviously, good game!