2015 NBA Offseason Thread

[miami_fan]

Might be time to put some of these guys in the Brady Quinn room.

[Groundhog]

Who's still left in the green room?

[Groundhog]

After 17 picks, still sitting in the Green Room: Bobby Portis, Jerian Grant, Sam Dekker, Rondae Hollis-Jefferson, Kevon Looney. Who is last?

[Groundhog]

I would be surprised if any of those guys slipped out of the first round - Looney might be a possibility, maybe.

[bronconick]

SEC Sports ‏<s>@</s>SEC (https://twitter.com/SEC) <small class="time"> 8m8 minutes ago (https://twitter.com/SEC/status/614242028197707776) </small> Four <s>#</s>SEC (https://twitter.com/hashtag/SEC?src=hash) players selected in the 2015 <s>@</s>NBA (https://twitter.com/NBA) Draft Lottery:

Well, technically, I guess

[Groundhog]

Dekker to Rockets.... Don't see the fit/need, but I guess you could argue he's the best prospect on the board.

[murrayyyyy]

Dekker to Rockets.... Don't see the fit/need, but I guess you could argue he's the best prospect on the board.

Shoot more 3's...

[miami_fan]

WALLY!

[murrayyyyy]

I feel I will be disappointed when Portis ends up a Blazer...

[murrayyyyy]

3 way trade action now as Knicks are trading Hardaway for Grant (who wash is taking)

[Groundhog]

Good trade for the Knicks.

[nol]

The Hawks just traded the #15 pick for two second rounders and Tim Hardaway Jr. They might need to get Danny Ferry back.

Rozier has to be getting traded. Somebody exciting has to be getting traded at some point.

[Groundhog]

Surely someone could have offered more than a Hardaway Jnr to buy a pick at that position.

[nol]

The Raptors are killing it this draft. Getting the two picks for Vasquez and now picking up Wright to squeeze the Mavericks for him (or even to keep as a pretty decent backup point right off the bat).

[JPhillips]

GS won it all.

PICK ALL THE GUARDS!!!!

[murrayyyyy]

that's what is happening. Memphis 4 picks from Portis now. Come one Portland, leave him alone. Bulls don't need him. Not sure about Cavs.

[Groundhog]

Yep, really like the Wright pick for Toronto.

[Groundhog]

I like Justin Anderson for the Mavs too.

[Groundhog]

If Thibodeau was still in town, Hollis-Jefferson would've been the perfect Bulls pick.

[murrayyyyy]

Well shit, he's a Bull. better than going to Portland.

[nol]

R.J. Hunter would be a really good value for the Cavs.

[murrayyyyy]

Anyone take Tyus Jones from Duke yet? Might be fit for Cavs playing 1 and 2.

[jbergey22]

I found the interview with Towns funny at the beginning of the night. Calling him the face of the franchise when they have last years ROY on their roster.

I think the Lakers got a great player in Russell but I am just wondering how they could pass on Okafor when it seems to have some promising players at guard while their frontcourt seems pathetic. ???

[Arles]

Suns, who were close to last in 3 point shooting, got a 6-6 SG who is the best shooter in the draft. Not too bad - now if they can trade Bledsoe for a solid 3/4...

[mckerney]

Tyus Jones to Minnesota! :party:

[nol]

Tokoto from UNC would be an interesting 2nd round flier for one of the 76ers' picks. Cliff Alexander could be a bargain in the 2nd round. Frazier from Florida could be a sorely-need shooter for a contending team. Other than that, not too excited about anyone else left.

[nol]

I found the interview with Towns funny at the beginning of the night. Calling him the face of the franchise when they have last years ROY on their roster.

I think the Lakers got a great player in Russell but I am just wondering how they could pass on Okafor when it seems to have some promising players at guard while their frontcourt seems pathetic. ???

This most likely hinged on them being confident they'll sign Aldridge.

[miami_fan]

Tyus Jones to Minnesota! :party:

I knew he wasn't taking Delly's spot;)

[Arles]

So which combo guard who can defend but not hit 3s will the Celtics take now?

[jbergey22]

So which combo guard who can defend but not hit 3s will the Celtics take now?

Delon Wright

Nevermind I see hes gone LOL!

[murrayyyyy]

well, the Lakers did have a good draft going on... this guy was late 2nd talent.

[murrayyyyy]

So which combo guard who can defend but not hit 3s will the Celtics take now?

Can they draft both of the Harrison twins with one pick?

[jbergey22]

well, the Lakers did have a good draft going on... this guy was late 2nd talent.

Yup, Hard to believe they would take him over Harrell or Mickey!

[murrayyyyy]

Don't get me wrong, I like Nance but they run a horribly slow offense at Wyoming and he missed a lot of time with mono I think. Considering injuries he had over the past few year I'm lost here.

[jbergey22]

Funny looking shot for this RJ Hunter! Martin is a great comparison.

[murrayyyyy]

Lol, my 5 years old just walked in the room and commented, what the hell is wrong with RJ Hunter's shot.

[miami_fan]

I forgot all about the Shield wrestling entrance aspect of the NBA draft.

[murrayyyyy]

Sierra
Yankee
Romeo
Alfa
Charlie
Uniform
Sierra
Echo

[Groundhog]

Looney to Golden State is a good selection at #30, although medical reports make it sound like he could fall apart at any second.

[stevew]

I guess the Cavs didn't want a guaranteed contract,?

[bhlloy]

Not a bad pick at all for the Warriors at 30, they'll have plenty of time to stash him and let him develop (and work out any injury issues he has)

[Groundhog]

The real loser of that first round is probably the Maine Red Claws. Those Boston guards are going to be launching three-point bricks all NBDL season-long.

[miami_fan]

I like the squad Flip Saunders has put together in Minnesota.

[Groundhog]

I guess the Cavs didn't want a guaranteed contract,?

Looks like saving $ was more important right now, but I'd like to see them at least do what the Spurs did and draft Milutinov and keep him overseas. He's a better prospect than this Osman - an athletic wing who can't shoot and has a bad shooting motion, because they aren't a dime a dozen or anything.

[stevew]

Yeah he sounds like that shitty African guy they took several years ago.

[Groundhog]

I like the squad Flip Saunders has put together in Minnesota.

If Rubio can stay on the court, they are going to be a really fun team to watch. Potential is there to be an amazing defensive squad, too.

I kinda think Pek is the odd man out right now, as Dieng's shot blocking and mobility probably makes him a better option to team with Towns, although he needs more consistency.

[Groundhog]

dola

Rakeem Christmas is another solid pick by Minny.

[Arles]

I'm shocked the 76ers took an overseas guy who won't come over for a few years. Guess they didn't want to increase that massive $28 mil team cap number they have for next season.

[Groundhog]

Christmas going to the Cavs maybe? I like it if so.

[Arles]

dola

Rakeem Christmas is another solid pick by Minny.
He's going to the Cavs

[Groundhog]

3 more opportunities for the Sixers to add more PF/Cs to their roster!

[murrayyyyy]

I'm shocked the 76ers took an overseas guy who won't come over for a few years. Guess they didn't want to increase that massive $28 mil team cap number they have for next season.

They are going to build a better team with their five 2nd round picks. Why trade them?

How the hell do they have 12 mill on the books for JaVale? Take that off and they might be around 12 million right now in total salary (not counting tonight's picks)

[Groundhog]

Mason Plumlee announces his own trade. Destination and for whom unknown...

[Groundhog]

Brooklyn will send Mason Plumlee and Pat Connaughton to the Blazers for Hollis-Jefferson and Blake, league sources tell Yahoo.

[murrayyyyy]

More guards in Phoenix!

[Arles]

Who will the Suns take? When in doubt, a guard from Kentucky is always a good guess :D

[Groundhog]

Andrew Harrison is pretty good value this low in the draft though, probably the last real interesting player in the pool.

[Arles]

Actually, Suns just traded the Harrison pick to Memphis for Jon Leuer

[Groundhog]

That's a good situation for Harrison.

[murrayyyyy]

Think the Celtics can get him to wear #4 so they can just break out the old Marcus Thornton jerseys? More point guards in Boston.

[Groundhog]

Think the Celtics can get him to wear #4 so they can just break out the old Marcus Thornton jerseys? More point guards in Boston.

At least this one seems to be able to shoot the three. Not sure I understand the Celtics obsession with combo-guards though. I hadn't heard of this guy until I read his draft profile now on Draft Express, but I think I actually prefer this guy to Dozier.

[murrayyyyy]

At least this one seems to be able to shoot the three. Not sure I understand the Celtics obsession with combo-guards though. I hadn't heard of this guy until I read his draft profile now on Draft Express, but I think I actually prefer this guy to Dozier.

Celtics are building a church league team I think.

[Eaglesfan27]

How many centers are the 76ers going to collect?

[Groundhog]

The NBA needs to scrap the All Star game and instead give us the Boston David's vs the Philadelphia Goliaths.

[Groundhog]

And now a tweet emerges of Larry Nance Jnr. calling Kobe a rapist....

[bhlloy]

They really need to give the 76ers to a new ownership group. Why would anyone go to a game in the next three years?

[Groundhog]

To watch Noel and Okafor battle for offensive rebounds from whichever D-League PG is running the team?

[murrayyyyy]

And now a tweet emerges of Larry Nance Jnr. calling Kobe a rapist....

Well...

[murrayyyyy]

How many 6'10" guys are left for the 76ers?

[murrayyyyy]

Do the 76ers know that he's an American?

[Groundhog]

On the plus side for Tokoto, being an American-born player drafted in the 2nd round by the Sixers is about as good as a 1st round guaranteed contract.

[murrayyyyy]

Christian Wood goes from 20's on draft boards to undrafted a month later after 1 year of college. Cliff Alexander burned bridges at Kansas just like Christian did. Both get passed up for a guy who averaged 4 ppg from India.

[stevew]

They are going to build a better team with their five 2nd round picks. Why trade them?

How the hell do they have 12 mill on the books for JaVale? Take that off and they might be around 12 million right now in total salary (not counting tonight's picks)

They bought him at deadline last year instead of just distributing their floor money like grownups. They're an abortion

[Groundhog]

I thought someone would nab Quinn Cook, although I think he's destined to be a great Euro PG.

[BishopMVP]

The real loser of that first round is probably the Maine Red Claws. Those Boston guards are going to be launching three-point bricks all NBDL season-long.Nah, RJ Hunter and James Young will both have multiple 40+ point games.

I was underwhelmed with the options at 16 and pissed they didn't trade up (if there really was a rational deal to be made for #9 or whatever), but there were about 8 guys I would've picked over Rozier. Funnily enough, I think if they had just picked Hunter at 16 and Rozier at 28 the reaction would be much different. On Hunter, I question his "slow" release and athleticism, but he certainly has range and polish and I'm willing to see it play out. Mickey seems legit for a 2nd rounder although I liked Holmes more. Literally had never heard of that Marcus Thornton before. Kinda surprised Cady Lalanne got drafted... Low motor.
On the plus side for Tokoto, being an American-born player drafted in the 2nd round by the Sixers is about as good as a 1st round guaranteed contract.No, they'll try to shaft him with one of those 4 year deals where the last two are non-guaranteed at the minimum. Might as well go the KJ McDaniels route and call their bluff by signing the 1-year tender.

Last thought - am I alone outside Detroit's war room in liking Stanley Johnson over Justise Winslow? Sean Miller is a very good college coach because he can recruit, get kids to play hard and craft a defensive scheme, but he can't coach offense to save his life. Both have NBA bodies but Stanley Johnson actually flashed offensive moves and a 3-pt shot, while Winslow is a menace in transition but years away from being a competent 5v5 offensive player.

[RainMaker]

I don't really know what Hinkie and the 76ers are donig.

[Groundhog]

In the Sixers defense (of the draft at least.... not defending their wretched 'rebuild'), I think they've picked the best available player each of the last three drafts with their top pick, and I imagine they were really hoping the Lakers grabbed Okafor at #2 instead of Russell. As it stands now they need to hope that Embiid is able to play at some point, and then look to move one of Embiid or Noel for a wing or PG.

[stevew]

I don't really know what Hinkie and the 76ers are donig.

Neither does he.

(Too easy, I know)

[Chief Rum]

Looney to Golden State is a good selection at #30, although medical reports make it sound like he could fall apart at any second.

Those medical reports are stupid. After he came back from the initial injury, he was fine. Warriors got a big time steal there.

[nol]

A lot of the trade rumors that were discussed leading up to the draft will continue to be discussed among the teams. I'm sure the 76ers also wouldn't have minded getting Winslow if the Heat hadn't tanked out of the playoffs to keep the pick.

[Chief Rum]

Last thought - am I alone outside Detroit's war room in liking Stanley Johnson over Justise Winslow? Sean Miller is a very good college coach because he can recruit, get kids to play hard and craft a defensive scheme, but he can't coach offense to save his life. Both have NBA bodies but Stanley Johnson actually flashed offensive moves and a 3-pt shot, while Winslow is a menace in transition but years away from being a competent 5v5 offensive player.

I don't know if he has changed at all since high school, but I had several conversations about him with a regular at my restaurant, who taught at his high school, a big time private school which has provided a number of big time athletes to the NFL and NBA. She taught him in several classes. She said that, even among the entitled athletes that have passed through that school, he was on his own level for being a superstar diva type, all attitude and getting by on talent alone. I doubt a year at the top of the heap in Tuscon changed that.

I had less of a connection to Winslow but everything I heard is that he's a high quality person who works hard.

[nol]

Last thought - am I alone outside Detroit's war room in liking Stanley Johnson over Justise Winslow? Sean Miller is a very good college coach because he can recruit, get kids to play hard and craft a defensive scheme, but he can't coach offense to save his life. Both have NBA bodies but Stanley Johnson actually flashed offensive moves and a 3-pt shot, while Winslow is a menace in transition but years away from being a competent 5v5 offensive player.

I think it's very possible to compare the two and say that Winslow had pretty much the ideal role for his offensive skillset at Duke while Johnson had to make more of an adjustment so Arizona could have its best five players on the floor.

I'd slightly lean towards Winslow (mostly because neither player is likely to be a go-to option on offense and Winslow is better at passing and cutting), but their differing roles and the fact that people put more stock into NCAA tournament games than they should make it pretty close between the two players.

It's also an interesting choice given the coach-GM situation in Detroit; I'd bet that Van Gundy's rationale for the pick is at least partially based on Johnson's disadvantages relative to Winslow being mostly intangible/attention to detail type things that Van Gundy feels he can "coach up."

[BishopMVP]

I don't know if he has changed at all since high school, but I had several conversations about him with a regular at my restaurant, who taught at his high school, a big time private school which has provided a number of big time athletes to the NFL and NBA. She taught him in several classes. She said that, even among the entitled athletes that have passed through that school, he was on his own level for being a superstar diva type, all attitude and getting by on talent alone. I doubt a year at the top of the heap in Tuscon changed that.

I had less of a connection to Winslow but everything I heard is that he's a high quality person who works hard.That makes some sense, but "diva-esque" describes a lot of NBA players. If he actually didn't work hard that's a huge red flag to me (that was the case with Michael Beasley - he didn't work out his SR year of HS because the gym was too cold.) But without knowing their work ethic I thought Johnson and Winslow were on a similar tier, and Detroit certainly didn't deserve the vitriol. Now, Charlotte passing on Winslow for Kaminsky is another matter. I find it hard to believe there wasn't a decent trade down to be made from Charlotte's perspective that still could've gotten them a Kaminsky or Booker.

It's also weird how much speculation is focused on Marcus Smart being traded after the Rozier pick. I don't rule out anything when it comes to Ainge, but it looks more like Avery Bradley is now the one who is very available.

[whomario]

Timberwolves also "nearing agreement" with Nemanja Bjelica, 2nd rounder from 2010. 27 years old and fresh off being the Euroleague MVP.

PF with nba 3 point range (albeit a tad bit inconsistent), crafty finisher, very good ball handler and good passer. Overall smart player who makes good decisions. Also a really good Rebounder. Lacks some lateral quickness defensively (so no sliding to SF imo), but has good instincts and effort to make up for some of that. Has some definitive "moxy" as well ;) I realize this sound all too promising, but what can i do ... Think the PF version of Batum.

In short, he is (as far as i am concerned) a guy who could play 20 minutes on a pretty good team and in any case would not come over unless he is getting signals of a decent role. Will be interesting what the Wolves do with what now has suddenly become a deep and largely competent FC rotation. Especially the Payne trade would look weird if he comes over ...

The Cap going up might result in quite a lot of talented former draft picks from Europe being signed i think.

[Arles]

I don't really know what Hinkie and the 76ers are donig.
Continuing his ponzi scheme. "Hey, we still have all these European assets and draft picks - you can't grade me on our 15-win season this year. I'm only 3 years in..."

Legit question: Let's say the Sixers just extended the players from their 2011-12 playoff season and then added their draft picks from 12 and the latest 1st rounder from 2013. That team would be (contracts for 15/16, 16/17):

PG: Jrue Holliday ($11 mil, $11 mil)
MCW ($2.3, $3.2)
SG: Andre Iguodala ($11.7, $11.1)
Jody Meeks ($6.2, $6.5)
Lou Williams (UFA)
SF: Mo Harkless ($2.8, $4)
Evan Turner ($3.4, 0)
Thadeus Young (UFA)
PF: Draft/FA
C: Nikola Vucevic ($11.2, $11.7)
Spencer Hawes ($5.5, $5.7)

That's 8 players for $54 mil with 2 first and second round picks in 14 and 15 to add, $20 mil in cap space and the rights to Williams and Young going into FA. Assuming they signed just average PF (or draft one), that's a playoff team in the East without many bad contracts and a ton of cap space. Would you trade this current roster/assets for Jahlil Okafor, Nerlens Noel, Joel Embid, Luc Richard Mbah a Moute, Robert Covington, the rights to Saric, the Lakers pick in 16 and some spare parts (Tony Wroten, Isaiah Canaan, Thomas Robinson)? I think you'd be laughed out of the league for making that trade.

So, essentially, the Sixers could have kept a playoff roster for 3 seasons and be no worse off (outside of Noel and Okafor) for the future. I think it's time we can say this "experiment" has been a pretty big failure so far without much hope for the next 2-3 seasons.

[Chief Rum]

Continuing his ponzi scheme. "Hey, we still have all these European assets and draft picks - you can't grade me on our 15-win season this year. I'm only 3 years in..."

Legit question: Let's say the Sixers just extended the players from their 2011-12 playoff season and then added their draft picks from 12 and the latest 1st rounder from 2013. That team would be (contracts for 15/16, 16/17):

PG: Jrue Holliday ($11 mil, $11 mil)
MCW ($2.3, $3.2)
SG: Andre Iguodala ($11.7, $11.1)
Jody Meeks ($6.2, $6.5)
Lou Williams (UFA)
SF: Mo Harkless ($2.8, $4)
Evan Turner ($3.4, 0)
Thadeus Young (UFA)
PF: Draft/FA
C: Nikola Vucevic ($11.2, $11.7)
Spencer Hawes ($5.5, $5.7)

That's 8 players for $54 mil with 2 first and second round picks in 14 and 15 to add, $20 mil in cap space and the rights to Williams and Young going into FA. Assuming they signed just average PF (or draft one), that's a playoff team in the East without many bad contracts and a ton of cap space. Would you trade this current roster/assets for Jahlil Okafor, Nerlens Noel, Joel Embid, Luc Richard Mbah a Moute, Robert Covington, the rights to Saric, the Lakers pick in 16 and some spare parts (Tony Wroten, Isaiah Canaan, Thomas Robinson)? I think you'd be laughed out of the league for making that trade.

So, essentially, the Sixers could have kept a playoff roster for 3 seasons and be no worse off (outside of Noel and Okafor) for the future. I think it's time we can say this "experiment" has been a pretty big failure so far without much hope for the next 2-3 seasons.

I would do that trade. Most of those guys are not top talents, or on the downside of their careers. Holiday and MCW play the same position. Iguodola is on the far side of his career. Vucevic is a solid, but not spectacular player. Williams and Young are presumeably gone, but also not getting any better anyway. Yes, that's a playoff team in the East, but it's not winning the East, nor is it coming close.

At least with Okafor, Noel and Embiid, you have three talents that are supposed to be top end talents, potential All Stars. You have even more cap space as well. And isn't Saric supposed to be pretty good, whenever he comes over? It's not a playoff team right now, but that's a base you can build on.

[Arles]

Last thought - am I alone outside Detroit's war room in liking Stanley Johnson over Justise Winslow? Sean Miller is a very good college coach because he can recruit, get kids to play hard and craft a defensive scheme, but he can't coach offense to save his life. Both have NBA bodies but Stanley Johnson actually flashed offensive moves and a 3-pt shot, while Winslow is a menace in transition but years away from being a competent 5v5 offensive player.
Miller rode Stanley hard last year. He was benched twice and pulled out of other games at crunchtime. He started off slow, but by the end of the year he was a good defender and a much better scorer. I think he will listen to Stan and work hard. He was clearly pissed at Miller a few times, but kept working and ended up a better player. One thing's for sure, he's not afraid of big moments and to have the ball in crunchtime. He reminds me a lot of Iggy when he was at Arizona. Big body, strong defender, solid handle/passer, can get to the rim but needs to work on his shot and limit the turnovers. I think he has a lot more upside than people think, but there is some risk as he's not "great" at any one thing (but neither was Iggy after his freshman year). He's more NBA ready than Winslow IMO, has about 15-20 pounds on him and was a comparable shooter. I can see why a team would want Stanley over Justise.

[nol]

Continuing his ponzi scheme. "Hey, we still have all these European assets and draft picks - you can't grade me on our 15-win season this year. I'm only 3 years in..."

Legit question: Let's say the Sixers just extended the players from their 2011-12 playoff season and then added their draft picks from 12 and the latest 1st rounder from 2013. That team would be (contracts for 15/16, 16/17):

PG: Jrue Holliday ($11 mil, $11 mil)
MCW ($2.3, $3.2)
SG: Andre Iguodala ($11.7, $11.1)
Jody Meeks ($6.2, $6.5)
Lou Williams (UFA)
SF: Mo Harkless ($2.8, $4)
Evan Turner ($3.4, 0)
Thadeus Young (UFA)
PF: Draft/FA
C: Nikola Vucevic ($11.2, $11.7)
Spencer Hawes ($5.5, $5.7)

That's 8 players for $54 mil with 2 first and second round picks in 14 and 15 to add, $20 mil in cap space and the rights to Williams and Young going into FA. Assuming they signed just average PF (or draft one), that's a playoff team in the East without many bad contracts and a ton of cap space. Would you trade this current roster/assets for Jahlil Okafor, Nerlens Noel, Joel Embid, Luc Richard Mbah a Moute, Robert Covington, the rights to Saric, the Lakers pick in 16 and some spare parts (Tony Wroten, Isaiah Canaan, Thomas Robinson)? I think you'd be laughed out of the league for making that trade.

So, essentially, the Sixers could have kept a playoff roster for 3 seasons and be no worse off (outside of Noel and Okafor) for the future. I think it's time we can say this "experiment" has been a pretty big failure so far without much hope for the next 2-3 seasons.

That's very likely not even a playoff team in the East; it doesn't look any better than the Pistons' roster. Iguodala can't play 35 minutes a night. Holiday has been hurt for the better part of the past couple seasons. Harkless has stagnated in Orlando.

That's a lot of cap room and future star players to give up for like 20-30 extra wins over the past couple seasons.

[Arles]

I would do that trade. Most of those guys are not top talents, or on the downside of their careers. Holiday and MCW play the same position. Iguodola is on the far side of his career. Vucevic is a solid, but not spectacular player. Williams and Young are presumeably gone, but also not getting any better anyway. Yes, that's a playoff team in the East, but it's not winning the East, nor is it coming close.
So you would trade Iggy, Holiday, MCW, Vucevic, Harkless, Meeks, 2 firsts and 2 seconds for a broken down Embiid, the rights to Saric, Okafor and Noel? No thanks. Noel is a defense-only center who isn't nearly as good as Vucevic. Embiid may not play for another year (or ever with his feet situation). Okafor and Saric are nice assets, but not worth the players and picks listed before.

In order for the Philly "plan" to work, you need to get two guys that are transcendent talents in your 3-4 "suck years". I can't see Embiid, Saric or Noel becoming those type of players given what we know about them right now. They needed to get a Lebron, Anthony Davis, Durant, Westbrook, Chris Paul, Blake, .. level player. And I have my doubts that any of these three bigs will ever reach that level.

At least with Okafor, Noel and Embiid, you have three talents that are supposed to be top end talents, potential All Stars. You have even more cap space as well. And isn't Saric supposed to be pretty good, whenever he comes over? It's not a playoff team right now, but that's a base you can build on.
None of those guys appear to be transcendent talents. Again, the reward is you hit the jackpot with your lottery tickets over a 3-year period and I don't see two defense-first bigs, a young Zach Randolph and a Euro who has never played NBA competition amounting to a "jackpot" pick. Plus, the damage you do by sucking for 3-4 seasons can't be discounted. Even if they had just ridden out the team they had, they could have still made the MCW trade for the Lakers pick and had a ton of cap space. And I don't see how the rights to Okafor, Noel, Embiid and Saric are worth Holiday, Iggy, Meeks, Harkless, Vucevic, 2 firsts, 2 seconds and 3 years of watching pathetic basketball.

The Sixers are no closer to a title than they were 3-4 years ago and they have put their fans through hell. Who's their go-to scorer? Who can defend a top tier wing? Who is one player on their roster right now who would even make the rotation for Golden State? I'm not sure even Noel would with his offensive deficiencies - and he's the best shot. Atleast teams like Golden State and OKC had talents like Westbrook/Durant/Harden or Curry/Thompson/Green 3 years into their "sucking". Does Philly have anyone on their roster who would be a top 2 player on a good playoff team in 2-3 seasons? I don't see it if they do. They will stink the next 2-3 seasons and no FA is going to want to go there and lose. I just don't see the potential payoff being worth 5-6 seasons of 20 wins.

[Chief Rum]

Yes, I would, assuming those firsts you're talking about aren't high end lottery selections. I need more information on what those picks became before I can assess those.

None of those players together form anything close to a quality team. All three of the players the Sixers would have have the potential to be much better than all of those other guys. With more cap space.

[Chief Rum]

The goal is to win a championship, not just make the playoffs in the East. ;)

[Arles]

The goal is to win a championship, not just make the playoffs in the East. ;)
Philly isn't winning a championship in the next 5-6 years. They are no closer to a championship than they were 3-4 years ago. Their "best case" is 2 of these guys become great post players and they end up a 3-4 seed in the East over the next 5 years.

People act like the NBA is this binary equation where it is Championship or bust. We don't look at the NFL that way, or MLB or even hockey. Here's a spoiler: Philly isn't beating Lebron anytime soon. Look at teams like Houston, the D'Antoni Suns, Indiana, the Bulls under Thibodeau, the Clippers and the Thunder. None of those teams have won a thing the past decade, but their fans have had a lot of fun rooting for them. You can field a fun team that's competitive (with an outside chance if injuries break your way) without sucking for 3-4 seasons and making your fans watch a D-League team for years. Even teams in Detroit and Dallas won a title without bottoming out by having some good fortune on player development and always trying to field a competitive team. This Philly plan is an eyesore on the NBA - with no real upside on the horizon. It's amazing to me that people look at it as some kind of enviable successful plan in action.

[nol]

Philly isn't winning a championship in the next 5-6 years. They are no closer to a championship than they were 3-4 years ago. Their "best case" is 2 of these guys become great post players and they end up a 3-4 seed in the East over the next 5 years.

Okay, then they are much closer to becoming a 3-4 seed in the East than they would have been with the core of the 11-12 roster with some cosmetic changes around the edges.

Anyhow, the biggest thing you're missing is that Sam Hinkie has been the GM for one fewer year than you think; if you think trading those Magic players and getting rid of Iguodala was bad to get a bunch of high lottery picks and cap space, well, it was actually all for Andrew Bynum and it happened under a different GM. That's a big hole to climb out of in 2, not 3, years.

[Arles]

We will give him 5 years then and see if he makes that 3-4 seed. I'm pretty confident he won't. Look at Cleveland, Miami, Atlanta and even Washington. All are in much better position to win over the next 4 years and none took the "suck" route. And it's not like Miami (losing Lebron), Atlanta (losing half their team) and Washington (blown 2-3 lottery picks) haven't faced adversity. Trying to field a competent team - while also still looking for a star - has worked well for Atlanta, Houston, Washington and others. You don't need to sell off everyone who can play just to "try to win a title".

Hinkie has just found a way to keep his job for 4-5 years without showing any improvement on the court (or better shot at a title). So kudos to him for pulling the wool over everyone's eyes. What's his excuse going to be in 2017-18 when he decides not to pay Noel, Embiid is still hobbling around and no FAs have wanted to join his D-League team? "Well, we need to give him until 2020 because he just drafted this great Euro who should be over by then!!" :rolleyes:

Philly fans, just keep mailing $5 bills to the 10 names on the list in your letter from Sam Hinkie. Eventually you will get rich - I swear! :D

[whomario]

The Warriors just won a championship without really tanking and by adding a piece or 2 every offseason. So did the Mavs in 2011.

I have sympathy for the 76ers in valuing high draft picks and not committing money to players now for the sake of avoiding controversy. But : there is treading water until you find a Franchise player or the right trade/Free Agent. (for example what the Wolves have done the last few years, who at least tried to set themselves up for success without damaging flexibility. And yes, they tanked towards the end of the season. But they did not tank in July)
And then there is whatever the hell the 76ers have been doing. Actually this years draft does not even fit that well with the narrative, taking Okafor is not as weird i would say (especially if Embiid is really out). Still: Even if you accept that being bad to get a "superstar" is a valid strategy, you also need to actually field 10 - 12 actual NBA players at some point and the 76ers have made it a point not to even try and identify players for those spots 4-12 in the last 2 seasons. They purposely refused to add talent and here are 2 problems with this.

1) You whiff on players all the time, it´s inevitable. In the Draft but also in Free Agency. There is no guarantee, that in the offseason you want to start winning you sign 5 guys and all are good fits. More likely than not, 3 of those 5 end up not a good fit.

2) Players and Agents have taken notice of what the 76ers have been doing. They also will be understandably weary joining a perennial looser based on "but now we want to win !"


So unless you think that the "franchise players" (and all 3 + Saric essentially play only 2 positions) and a bunch of fringe players can win 40 games next year or the year after, who will want to come in 2016 or 2017 ? Especially with the Cap rising, which means more money to go around and more flexibility even for the teams that are allready good now. Why would anyone take the max with the 76ers next offseason or in 2017 when they can also get it with a playoff team ?

[bhlloy]

Yeah, Phillly is a joke and no closer to winning with Embiid/Oden v2, Noel and Okafor. No top free agent is ever going to go play for Hinkle and at some point even the Philly fans will give up on them. There is smart tanking and then there is making your team a joke for 6-7 years and still not ending up with a top side out of it

[cuervo72]

What top FA was going to Philly before?

[Arles]

Elton Brand left the Clippers for Philly. I think the reason this strategy bothers me (in addition to how awful the product is) is the fact that Philly is completely ignoring two of the three ways to improve your team (free agency and trade). Philly refuses to trade for or sign better current players. Look at teams like the Suns, Rockets, Portland, etc. These teams have routinely signed or traded for better current players and then flipped them for assets in the future. Not only did the the Suns get better on the court when they traded for Jared Dudley and signed Goran Dragic in FA, they ended up flipping both players for Eric Bledsoe, Danny Granger and two first round picks. The Rockets signed Omer Asik in free agency. Then, when they lost Parsons to Dallas in FA, they moved Asik for Ariza and a 1st.

Just completely taking yourself out of free agency and refusing to trade for good NBA players shuts off two of the three ways you can improve your team. Even if you sign a player who ends up not being the best fit (a la Asik), it's an asset you can eventually use to get better in other places. Hinkie seems to only want to use his cap space to absorb other bad contracts (like McGee) and get more picks. Of course, sucking does tend to dissuade good players from signing in FA - so there's another negative to the strategy.

[Chief Rum]

I also don't see Philly as a city free agents won't go to. I don't think it has the stigma that a more Midwest-ish city might (like Cleveland, Indiana, Milwaukee, Okie City, etc.)

That said, Brand is a bad example. That whole move from the Clips to the Sixers was orchestrated by the agent, and was all about money. It wasn't about Philly as a free agent draw, but as a team willing and able to spend the money on Brand.

[cuervo72]

They've had this conversation a number of times on DC radio regarding the Wizards, and I consider the Sixers as a destination essentially in the same mold (as do the radio peeps). There's just no excitement about either destination. It's not warm, it's not trendy. It's a big city, but it's not like it's a media or advertising leader. It has a losing pedigree (the Sixers had a winning one, but realistically they've been also-rans for 25 years outside of a couple seasons in the Iverson era). The team is eclipsed by the city's other franchises.

There's really nothing to set them apart as a destination. So you're either going to get a player who is going there primarily for the money, or because they have some tie to the city. Basically, a hometown guy - which is the only reason there's any buzz about the Wizards possibly getting a big name (Durant).

[nol]

The Warriors just won a championship without really tanking and by adding a piece or 2 every offseason. So did the Mavs in 2011.

I have sympathy for the 76ers in valuing high draft picks and not committing money to players now for the sake of avoiding controversy. But : there is treading water until you find a Franchise player or the right trade/Free Agent. (for example what the Wolves have done the last few years, who at least tried to set themselves up for success without damaging flexibility. And yes, they tanked towards the end of the season. But they did not tank in July)
And then there is whatever the hell the 76ers have been doing. Actually this years draft does not even fit that well with the narrative, taking Okafor is not as weird i would say (especially if Embiid is really out). Still: Even if you accept that being bad to get a "superstar" is a valid strategy, you also need to actually field 10 - 12 actual NBA players at some point and the 76ers have made it a point not to even try and identify players for those spots 4-12 in the last 2 seasons. They purposely refused to add talent and here are 2 problems with this.

1) You whiff on players all the time, it´s inevitable. In the Draft but also in Free Agency. There is no guarantee, that in the offseason you want to start winning you sign 5 guys and all are good fits. More likely than not, 3 of those 5 end up not a good fit.

2) Players and Agents have taken notice of what the 76ers have been doing. They also will be understandably weary joining a perennial looser based on "but now we want to win !"


So unless you think that the "franchise players" (and all 3 + Saric essentially play only 2 positions) and a bunch of fringe players can win 40 games next year or the year after, who will want to come in 2016 or 2017 ? Especially with the Cap rising, which means more money to go around and more flexibility even for the teams that are allready good now. Why would anyone take the max with the 76ers next offseason or in 2017 when they can also get it with a playoff team ?

The Warriors were 18-21 at the trade deadline of 2012 (2 games out of the 8 seed) and went 5-22 the rest of the way by trading their leading scorer for an injured player and shutting down Curry for the rest of the season. 100 percent tanking. That enabled them to keep the Harrison Barnes pick, and it's also likely that it moved them up enough in the draft order for Draymond Green to have been around for their 3rd pick.

The Wolves just sucked for many years in a row, so much so that one of their only non-bust lottery picks of the last 10 or so years wanted out, and it just so happened to be a year in which the team with the #1 pick was in win-now mode and willing to trade for less than it normally would have taken.

The Hawks, Wizards, Clippers, Mavericks, Blazers and just about every other team that's not a marquee free agent destination can all trace their current rosters back to a prolonged run of sucking. Those runs just didn't happen 2 years ago so nobody remembers it.

The Sixers played better this year than last (and played better after making some allegedly terrible tanking trades) and are pretty much guaranteed to play better in 15-16 even if Embiid is hurt the whole season and you preemptively rule out the possibility of them signing any free agents or making any trades.

Elton Brand left the Clippers for Philly. I think the reason this strategy bothers me (in addition to how awful the product is) is the fact that Philly is completely ignoring two of the three ways to improve your team (free agency and trade). Philly refuses to trade for or sign better current players.

The flip side of that is that Elton Brand was getting paid $16 million to average 11 points and 7 rebounds in 2012, all for being part of a team that won one playoff series because the other team's two best players got injured. No matter how crappy the destination, you can overpay someone enough to get them to join your team. Philadelphia can have a pretty easy path to 35 wins this year by signing like DeMarre Carroll and Reggie Jackson to max deals if they really wanted to.

[stevew]

A few years ago everyone was mocking the Wizards for trading for aging vets like Ariza and Gortat. And Nene fits the same bill as well. Probably the Wizards will never win a title but their situation is something like Philly could be doing.

[nol]

A few years ago everyone was mocking the Wizards for trading for aging vets like Ariza and Gortat. And Nene fits the same bill as well. Probably the Wizards will never win a title but their situation is something like Philly could be doing.

The Wizards drafted 5th, 1st, 6th, 3rd, and 3rd in the 5 years prior to trading for Gortat, so the 76ers are certainly ahead of schedule in that regard.

[Chief Rum]

The Wizards drafted 5th, 1st, 6th, 3rd, and 3rd in the 5 years prior to trading for Gortat, so the 76ers are certainly ahead of schedule in that regard.

Yeah, whoda thunk that Jan Vesely, Otto Porter and Javale McGee wouldn't work out!

[murrayyyyy]

The Wizards drafted 5th, 1st, 6th, 3rd, and 3rd in the 5 years prior to trading for Gortat, so the 76ers are certainly ahead of schedule in that regard.

Would it matter for the 76ers?

13 picks over the past 3 seasons and do you know how many mins they will get this year from those actual draft picks? Whatever Jerami Grant gets in playing time this year. They traded for Noel. That is either a great job of flipping talent or a horrible job drafting.

[Atocep]

People act like the NBA is this binary equation where it is Championship or bust. We don't look at the NFL that way, or MLB or even hockey.

These other sports aren't comparable to the NBA. The better team wins a 7 game series in the NBA the vast majority of the time. The only NBA team to win a title as a 4 seed or lower in the past 50 years is the '95 rockets (who picked up Drexler at mid-season).

[stevew]

Lol about the Warriors not shamefully tanking. As mentioned earlier

[mckerney]

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/HsvaQR9hKDI" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[Vince, Pt. II]

The Warriors were 18-21 at the trade deadline of 2012 (2 games out of the 8 seed) and went 5-22 the rest of the way by trading their leading scorer for an injured player and shutting down Curry for the rest of the season. 100 percent tanking. That enabled them to keep the Harrison Barnes pick, and it's also likely that it moved them up enough in the draft order for Draymond Green to have been around for their 3rd pick.

While the Warriors very clearly tanked at the end of that season, I think none of the above are the reasons for it. Curry being hurt necessitated taking it easy on him (the budding young superstar that they were putting their faith in over Monte), and in a year where you're not going anywhere, that's hardly 'tanking.' Trading Monte Ellis for Andrew Bogut was somewhat defensible at the time (pretty sure I was happy as it happened, actually), and is now in retrospect (even before the title) completely and totally defensible.

They shamelessly tanked, however, at the end of the year when they started benching all the rest of their starters to ensure that they didn't lose the protected pick.

[nol]

While the Warriors very clearly tanked at the end of that season, I think none of the above are the reasons for it. Curry being hurt necessitated taking it easy on him (the budding young superstar that they were putting their faith in over Monte), and in a year where you're not going anywhere, that's hardly 'tanking.' Trading Monte Ellis for Andrew Bogut was somewhat defensible at the time (pretty sure I was happy as it happened, actually), and is now in retrospect (even before the title) completely and totally defensible.

They shamelessly tanked, however, at the end of the year when they started benching all the rest of their starters to ensure that they didn't lose the protected pick.

Right, everything's atrocious and tanking at the time but is forgotten as soon as the team's good (and it didn't even take a championship, most people probably forgot about that by the playoffs the following season).

Would it matter for the 76ers?

13 picks over the past 3 seasons and do you know how many mins they will get this year from those actual draft picks? Whatever Jerami Grant gets in playing time this year. They traded for Noel. That is either a great job of flipping talent or a horrible job drafting.

The draft picks from 2013-15 have played 3 cumulative seasons and will have played 6 cumulative seasons this time next year, so anything about how the draft picks have developed is somewhat premature.

Here was the projected starting lineup core of the team when Hinkie took over: Holiday, Evan Turner, Thad Young, Spencer Hawes, and Andrew Bynum. Three of those guys are punch lines, Holiday got traded for Nerlens Noel, Saric, and a future first round pick from Orlando, and they were on track to get a lottery pick for Thad Young's expiring contract until Chris Bosh missed half the season and the Heat sat everyone at the end to keep the pick.

[bhlloy]

There's tanking and then there is deliberately taking players who either can't or aren't willing to play for you over a number of years to make sure you are awful for as long as possible.

[murrayyyyy]

All while giving up Vuc, harkless, turner, peyton and someone else I'm blanking on. And that's just first rounders. You think one of the past 8 2nd round picks could have made the roster still

[Vince, Pt. II]

Right, everything's atrocious and tanking at the time but is forgotten as soon as the team's good (and it didn't even take a championship, most people probably forgot about that by the playoffs the following season).

I'm saying that the moves you are citing as "tanking" have motives that are not solely "make our draft pick higher."

[RainMaker]

Well they do have 3 Centers now although 1 may have a messed up foot. And I guess a stretch 4 is coming over in 2017 but won't be on a rookie scale contract.

[nol]

I'm saying that the moves you are citing as "tanking" have motives that are not solely "make our draft pick higher."

Golden State didn't want Curry to get hurt. Philly didn't want Embiid to get hurt. New York didn't wan't Carmelo to get hurt. Golden State wasn't going anywhere that year. Philly wasn't going anywhere this year. New York wasn't going anywhere this year. The exact same justifications work in literally every circumstance (and they're totally fine, but none of them are any different from one another).

There's tanking and then there is deliberately taking players who either can't or aren't willing to play for you over a number of years to make sure you are awful for as long as possible.

And then there's damned if you do, damned if you don't. I could not look at anyone drafted no. 4 or later in 2014 and confidently say that he will score more points per game than Embiid this coming season. If you somehow made an armchair diagnosis that Embiid will be injured his entire career, then you're more qualified than any doctor who works with the NBA because the Magic (or some team that traded up) were ready to take him with the 4th pick. I'd almost say the same for Saric; Capela is the only guy taken after him who's looked particularly impressive and he's completely redundant with Noel.

All while giving up Vuc, harkless, turner, peyton and someone else I'm blanking on. And that's just first rounders. You think one of the past 8 2nd round picks could have made the roster still

Once again, half of these guys (plus Andre Iguodala) were traded the year before Hinkie was hired as the Sixers made a 'win now' move to get Andrew Bynum. 3 of the 4 players play for a team that won 25 games this year, so I'm not sure how they would help the Sixers be competitive now. The other guy is Evan Turner, who has been a net negative for every team he's played for.

[RainMaker]

And then there's damned if you do, damned if you don't. I could not look at anyone drafted no. 4 or later in 2014 and confidently say that he will score more points per game than Embiid this coming season. If you somehow made an armchair diagnosis that Embiid will be injured his entire career, then you're more qualified than any doctor who works with the NBA because the Magic (or some team that traded up) were ready to take him with the 4th pick. I'd almost say the same for Saric; Capela is the only guy taken after him who's looked particularly impressive and he's completely redundant with Noel.


Well 2 teams ahead in the draft decided to pass on him because of medical concerns. 7 footer with a bad foot and low bone density made him a high risk selection.

I'd have taken him too because the reward is just too high but when you take the Philly approach to rebuilding, there's only so many times you can strike out on high picks.

[Atocep]

I still struggle to understand why tanking is so terrible in basketball but ok (or not nearly as bad) in other sports.

[nol]

Well 2 teams ahead in the draft decided to pass on him because of medical concerns. 7 footer with a bad foot and low bone density made him a high risk selection.

I'd have taken him too because the reward is just too high but when you take the Philly approach to rebuilding, there's only so many times you can strike out on high picks.

Yeah, Wiggins and Parker were good enough that you could pass on him but nobody thus far is making you say, "Yep, they should have taken _____."

Odds are if the Sixers took Dante Exum or Aaron Gordon or someone, that player would be considered a bust right now (even though it's still too early in anyone's career to declare anything other than that Wiggins will be good) and people would be talking about Embiid like he's a colossus waiting to be unleashed.

[Arles]

I don't know, the Bucks, Hawks, Raptors and Wizards looked pretty hopeless 2-3 years ago and now all field fairly solid teams. You can "stink", but still collect legit NBA players and not be w complete embarrassment. And who knows, maybe like with Atlanta or Washington - you might end up with a real shot in the East one season.

[nol]

I still struggle to understand why tanking is so terrible in basketball but ok (or not nearly as bad) in other sports.

Partly because the best player makes more of a difference than in other sports and partly because of the perception that basketball players are lazier than other athletes.

[RainMaker]

I don't know, the Bucks, Hawks, Raptors and Wizards looked pretty hopeless 2-3 years ago and now all field fairly solid teams. You can "stink", but still collect legit NBA players and not be w complete embarrassment. And who knows, maybe like with Atlanta or Washington - you might end up with a real shot in the East one season.

The only team I can think of that was tanking hard and turned it into a big success is OKC. And even then it took some really good luck to have players fall into their lap at the right time.

[stevew]

I still struggle to understand why tanking is so terrible in basketball but ok (or not nearly as bad) in other sports.

because one player is 20% of your lineup at any time. And superstars win titles.

[nol]

I don't know, the Bucks, Hawks, Raptors and Wizards looked pretty hopeless 2-3 years ago and now all field fairly solid teams. You can "stink", but still collect legit NBA players and not be w complete embarrassment. And who knows, maybe like with Atlanta or Washington - you might end up with a real shot in the East one season.

Yes, which goes back to the fact that teams like Atlanta and Washington have spent many more years being terrible than Philadelphia has with this so-called tanking strategy, and Philadelphia was in one of the worst situations in recent NBA history with the combination of a losing team, high salaries, and a city that's not a free agent destination location.

For example, the Lakers would have drafted Okafor yesterday if not for the fact that a high-profile free agent is going to leave a better team to sign with them for no reason other than that they're the Lakers. If Russell had gone to the 76ers they'd have been a dark horse playoff team in the East this season.

[Subby]

Yeah, whoda thunk that Jan Vesely, Otto Porter and Javale McGee wouldn't work out!
Otto Porter has actually worked out very well. Still so pissed about Jan Vessley.

[BishopMVP]

Atleast teams like Golden State and OKC had talents like Westbrook/Durant/Harden or Curry/Thompson/Green 3 years into their "sucking".In addition to the fact that GS did tank, look at those three - Steph Curry was not just considered injury prone by lazy sportswriters, but actually was injury prone enough that he signed a hilariously cheap extension because even he didn't know if he'd stay healthy. People were pretty aghast last summer that GS stuck with Klay Thompson and didn't trade him. And even Steve Kerr had Draymond penciled in for 10-15 minutes a game until injuries (and Green's breakout) forced his hand.

OKC is the extremely rare example where a team with 3 top 5 picks picked 3 eventual superstars who looked great from day one. Philly is like most where it's very uncertain and requires some luck - There's no guarantee any of them will pan out into a superstar, but that Noel/Embiid/Okafor trio looks at least as likely to produce 1-2 stars as the GS trio did as recently as like 2013.

Glad we agree on Johnson - the weight is another point in Johnson's favor I don't think Winslow is undersized, but he's a true SF that can occasionally play in the post off a P&R switch. Meanwhile ohnson could be a real 4 the way the league is progressing

[murrayyyyy]

I don't know, the Bucks, Hawks, Raptors and Wizards looked pretty hopeless 2-3 years ago and now all field fairly solid teams. You can "stink", but still collect legit NBA players and not be w complete embarrassment. And who knows, maybe like with Atlanta or Washington - you might end up with a real shot in the East one season.

I know no one watches the Hawks but they've made the playoffs for 8 straight years.

[murrayyyyy]

Yes, which goes back to the fact that teams like Atlanta and Washington have spent many more years being terrible than Philadelphia has with this so-called tanking strategy, and Philadelphia was in one of the worst situations in recent NBA history with the combination of a losing team, high salaries, and a city that's not a free agent destination location.


No, Philly has put themselves in the wrong situation by trying to circumvent the salary cap with a GM who has a business degree. He figured out the loop hole in the CBA with regards to cap floor and contract formats. The 76ers stayed below the 90% cap floor for most of the season until the trade deadline. He's making the owner a shit ton of money. He won't get fired for this. This is the major reason that they can't sign a talented free agent.

Also Hinkie says they traded MCW (ROY the year before) to get a 1st round pick because he wasn't developing. Well no shit. You surround him with players who should be in the D-League that can't run an offensive set or guard anyone and guess what, your best young player won't develop. Everyone wants to jump on Noel for having no offensive game his first few years... well, who the hell is getting him the ball? Scrubs?

MCW was traded after 41 games and finished 3rd on the 76ers in 2P FGM. And MCW was 2 times as high as any other 76ers in assists on the year. 2nd? Wroten who played 30 games because of injuries. That's right, the highest player for them that played in more than half the games was Noel at 1.7 a game.

[Shkspr]

I know no one watches the Hawks but they've made the playoffs for 8 straight years.

Yeah, but "pretty hopeless" and "#4 Eastern Conference playoff seed" mean the same thing.

[Brian Swartz]

On the other hand, the Hawks weren't the #4 seed this year. For quite a while they were serious contenders for the best record in the league and won 60 games, easily making them the East's top seed.

[nol]

This is the major reason that they can't sign a talented free agent.

Also Hinkie says they traded MCW (ROY the year before) to get a 1st round pick because he wasn't developing. Well no shit. You surround him with players who should be in the D-League that can't run an offensive set or guard anyone and guess what, your best young player won't develop. Everyone wants to jump on Noel for having no offensive game his first few years... well, who the hell is getting him the ball? Scrubs?

MCW was traded after 41 games and finished 3rd on the 76ers in 2P FGM. And MCW was 2 times as high as any other 76ers in assists on the year. 2nd? Wroten who played 30 games because of injuries. That's right, the highest player for them that played in more than half the games was Noel at 1.7 a game.

I'd estimate over half the league has not attracted a talented free agent from another team over the past two offseasons, and this is even being charitable and counting teams like Detroit and Charlotte as having signed someone when those turned to be really bad decisions like Josh Smith and Lance Stephenson.

As someone who had Noel on his fantasy team, I can tell you those scrubs like Ish Smith (6 assists per game) did a better job of getting him the ball than Carter-Williams was doing; March was Noel's highest-scoring and highest field goal percentage month. The 76ers can definitely guard people better than the average team, which is impressive in its own right for how young everyone is.

[Arles]

I know no one watches the Hawks but they've made the playoffs for 8 straight years.
They were 38-44 last year (one game ahead of the Knicks and snuck in for the 8 seed). They had lost their two best players over the prior 2 years (Joe Johnson and Josh Smith) and were not thought to be a very competitive team. However, instead of hitting the reboot like Philly, they made some shrewd signings (Lou Williams, Paul Millsap, DeMarre Carroll, Thabo), spent a little money, drafted a few players to actually contribute (Schroder, Mike Scott,..) and ended up with a pretty strong team.

There is no reason why Philly couldn't have taken a similar approach after the 2013 season. Instead, they went after players who were injured (Noel, Embiid), in Europe (Saric and a bunch of 2nds) and didn't make any effort to add NBA talent via FA/trade.

[murrayyyyy]

I'd estimate over half the league has not attracted a talented free agent from another team over the past two offseasons, and this is even being charitable and counting teams like Detroit and Charlotte as having signed someone when those turned to be really bad decisions like Josh Smith and Lance Stephenson.

100% incorrect. The 76ers are easily the only NBA franchise who has not signed a free agent over the past 2 seasons from another team. It's not even close. Their UFA's were resigning Jason Richardson (2014) and Kwame Brown (2013). The 76ers are the NBA version of a ponzi scheme and anyone who pays to watch them pay deserves to lose their money.

Charlotte got Jefferson, Maxiell, B Roberts, Stephenson and Mar Williams

Detroit got Augustin, Martin, Butler, Gray, Meeks, Jennings, Billups, J Smooth

76ers got 0 because that's how much effort they are putting into it. I can take those free agents for the Hornets and Pistons and beat the 76ers by 20 5 nights a week.

Free Agent Tracker | NBA.com (http://www.nba.com/freeagents/2013/) (2013)

Free Agent Tracker | NBA.com (http://www.nba.com/freeagents/2014/) (2014)

[Atocep]

They were 38-44 last year (one game ahead of the Knicks and snuck in for the 8 seed). They had lost their two best players over the prior 2 years (Joe Johnson and Josh Smith) and were not thought to be a very competitive team. However, instead of hitting the reboot like Philly, they made some shrewd signings (Lou Williams, Paul Millsap, DeMarre Carroll, Thabo), spent a little money, drafted a few players to actually contribute (Schroder, Mike Scott,..) and ended up with a pretty strong team.

There is no reason why Philly couldn't have taken a similar approach after the 2013 season. Instead, they went after players who were injured (Noel, Embiid), in Europe (Saric and a bunch of 2nds) and didn't make any effort to add NBA talent via FA/trade.

Josh Smith and Joe Johnson were not the Hawks best players. Both were considered an albatross because of their contracts. Al Horford was their best player when healthy. Josh Smith in his last season with the Hawks probably doesn't crack the top 3 and Joe Johnson was making $18 mil per year to be a high usage, above average player. Horford, Korver, and Teague were better players which is backed up by Win Shares.

The only player the Sixers had that would crack that top 3 would have been Thaddeus Young. His game deteriorated in 2014 and the Sixers rightfully moved him as he's only gotten worse since. Their next best player would have been Spencer Hawes or Jrue Holiday. Holiday is another player Hinkie was smart to move as his 2nd season in the NBA is still his best. If Spencer Hawes is your 3rd best player it's time rebuild.

3 of the Hawks 4 best players this year were Horford, Teague, and Korver. Guys who were already on the roster. Out of the "core" players on that 2013 Sixers roster none have played better since leaving Philly.

The Hawks were in position to tweak their roster, although it would be interesting to see how they would have done this year had their attempts to land Carmelo succeeded.

Philly needed a full scale rebuild. They're doing the same thing the Cubs and Astros have been doing and the same thing the Marlins do every other year. Fans aren't buying tickets for Sixers games thinking they're going to see a team trying to win right now.

[Young Drachma]

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/HsvaQR9hKDI" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

This is too funny for words.

[murrayyyyy]

They were 38-44 last year (one game ahead of the Knicks and snuck in for the 8 seed). They had lost their two best players over the prior 2 years (Joe Johnson and Josh Smith) and were not thought to be a very competitive team. However, instead of hitting the reboot like Philly, they made some shrewd signings (Lou Williams, Paul Millsap, DeMarre Carroll, Thabo), spent a little money, drafted a few players to actually contribute (Schroder, Mike Scott,..) and ended up with a pretty strong team.

There is no reason why Philly couldn't have taken a similar approach after the 2013 season. Instead, they went after players who were injured (Noel, Embiid), in Europe (Saric and a bunch of 2nds) and didn't make any effort to add NBA talent via FA/trade.

True but the 76ers have 1 season over .500 in the past 10 years and that was during the lockout year. They've won 37 games in 2 seasons. The last time the Hawks didn't win at least 37 games in 1 season is 2006.

The only thing I can think of comparing the mess in Philly to is when Silas let his son coach some games while he just sat in his chair the entire game in Charlotte during the lockout season.

[Thomkal]

This is too funny for words.

That was funny, but man the NBA needs to beef up their security if a tall guy is all you need to get close to NBA players and fans.

[Young Drachma]

He might have had a press pass handy and didn't tell us that part. He was being trailed by a camera the whole time, so..seems like they would've been able to figure something out.

[JonInMiddleGA]

The last time the Hawks didn't win at least 37 games in 1 season is 2006.

But until very recently, mediocrity was quite acceptable in the organization.

There was nothing there in most of those seasons for anyone to particular hang their hat on, that 37 wins streak says a lot more about the rest of the league frankly.

[stevew]

The plumlee Brooklyn traded is the good one, right? I know deadspin touched on it, but it truly looks awful

[cuervo72]

100% incorrect. The 76ers are easily the only NBA franchise who has not signed a free agent over the past 2 seasons from another team. It's not even close. Their UFA's were resigning Jason Richardson (2014) and Kwame Brown (2013). The 76ers are the NBA version of a ponzi scheme and anyone who pays to watch them pay deserves to lose their money.

Charlotte got Jefferson, Maxiell, B Roberts, Stephenson and Mar Williams

Detroit got Augustin, Martin, Butler, Gray, Meeks, Jennings, Billups, J Smooth

76ers got 0 because that's how much effort they are putting into it. I can take those free agents for the Hornets and Pistons and beat the 76ers by 20 5 nights a week.

Free Agent Tracker | NBA.com (http://www.nba.com/freeagents/2013/) (2013)

Free Agent Tracker | NBA.com (http://www.nba.com/freeagents/2014/) (2014)

Yeah but he said talented FA.

My view is skewed because of playing text-sim games and seeing just how well tanking works in the fictional FOBL (though I think there are plenty of real-world examples where it has been just peachy). I'd rather see the Sixers win 18 than 32-33 as the Pistons/Hornets did. At least as someone who doesn't care about actually watching them. The NBA is built on stars, not serviceable journeyman free agents.

[nol]

Yeah but he said talented FA.

My view is skewed because of playing text-sim games and seeing just how well tanking works in the fictional FOBL (though I think there are plenty of real-world examples where it has been just peachy). I'd rather see the Sixers win 18 than 32-33 as the Pistons/Hornets did. At least as someone who doesn't care about actually watching them. The NBA is built on stars, not serviceable journeyman free agents.

From a financial standpoint I'd rather have an owner who says "If we're gonna suck, we're gonna suck on the leanest budget in the league" than one who tries to stay around the cap regardless of how good the team is. Brian Roberts probably makes more money this season than just about everyone who played for the Sixers except Noel, and I do not have any memory of seeing him play this season.

From an entertainment standpoint I'd rather watch a bunch of 20-22 year old kids play hard and try to figure stuff out on the way to 18 wins than some mediocre veteran team that wins 25-30 games going through the motions.

[murrayyyyy]

The plumlee Brooklyn traded is the good one, right? I know deadspin touched on it, but it truly looks awful

He's the one that plays with team USA so yes. Lionel Hollins hates him. Well, I mean the direct quote that started it was: “I’d rather [Plumlee] never shoot a jump shot.”

[murrayyyyy]

From a financial standpoint I'd rather have an owner who says "If we're gonna suck, we're gonna suck on the leanest budget in the league" than one who tries to stay around the cap regardless of how good the team is. Brian Roberts probably makes more money this season than just about everyone who played for the Sixers except Noel, and I do not have any memory of seeing him play this season.

From an entertainment standpoint I'd rather watch a bunch of 20-22 year old kids play hard and try to figure stuff out on the way to 18 wins than some mediocre veteran team that wins 25-30 games going through the motions.

I'd expect more from a team still charging 6k for tickets that aren't front row or center court personally. If you want to be a cheap team that sucks I should be getting cheaper NBA tickets. I could watch Memphis for the same seats as the 76ers and pay 1200 less for season tickets.

[whomario]

From a financial standpoint I'd rather have an owner who says "If we're gonna suck, we're gonna suck on the leanest budget in the league" than one who tries to stay around the cap regardless of how good the team is. Brian Roberts probably makes more money this season than just about everyone who played for the Sixers except Noel, and I do not have any memory of seeing him play this season.

From an entertainment standpoint I'd rather watch a bunch of 20-22 year old kids play hard and try to figure stuff out on the way to 18 wins than some mediocre veteran team that wins 25-30 games going through the motions.

from a financial standpoint, i´d rather have an owner who uses the savings to lower ticket prices, pays his regular employes more money or at least does not stoop to shortchanging low salary guys with legal but still kinda despicable moves and pressuring their 2nd rounders into a corner. (Hint: They did neither of those things). Otherwise, why would a fan or "bystander" care ? :confused:

And i am not at all blaming it on the players or say they do not deserve some recognition even. They played hard and were also incredibly coachable and did an downright admirable job. But no one is saying the mailed it in, thats not the point.

Yes, the Warriors tanked late in seasons and yes, other teams also suck and/or tanked. But again: They pick up players on the FA market and in trades. And some of those pickups sucked. But the 76ers don´t try there and expect that they can magically fill out there roster with 5 - 8 well fitting players whenever they feel like it. But that is not how it works. Again, look at the Warriors who essentially picked up 1 or 2 of their current rotation per season. Also, do you think that after 3,4,5 seasons of loosing basketball their current crop of "young stars" will definitely sign an extension ? Or be actually ready for a big role on a winning team ?
It somewhat worked like that for the Cavs, but they also had LeBron James.
And again, with the rising cap the 76ers seem doomed as far as attracting good role players to complement their "stars" even if they develop. They have a reputation now and its not a good one...

[whomario]

Bjelica reportedly signing for 3/12 with the Wolves, would be surprisingly low.

[cuervo72]

From an entertainment standpoint I'd rather watch a bunch of 20-22 year old kids play hard and try to figure stuff out on the way to 18 wins than some mediocre veteran team that wins 25-30 games going through the motions.

Yeah, there is that too. For any moribund MLB team (oh hai, Phillies!) it's more fun to watch young guys than the 30yo veteran washouts who make the rounds (sorry, Jeff Francoer). Of course in their case, it makes sense for the organization to keep them down so their clocks don't start ticking.

At least where I am I get to see the Nats and O's play...

[cuervo72]

I'd expect more from a team still charging 6k for tickets that aren't front row or center court personally. If you want to be a cheap team that sucks I should be getting cheaper NBA tickets. I could watch Memphis for the same seats as the 76ers and pay 1200 less for season tickets.

Admittedly, my opinions are from someone who will gladly spend $0 to watch or not watch on his couch.

[stevew]

Someone broke down the math on that McGhee trade, right? Basically he bypassed 10-12m in $$ that got split amongst the 15man roster to assume a 12M salary that was already 75% paid for. Meaning they spent 3M on a late pick and saved a bunch of money via accounting.

Sixers organization=pieces of shit.

I wouldn't have as much of an issue with the move if they had gotten more for taking on Javelle

[stevew]

Also what's the prognosis on Embiid? If he can't go all season I wonder if it's even worth picking up his 3rd year option. They'll be so far under the cap that they can still make a nice offer for him if his medicald check out.

Likewise in the option department, Anthony Bennett should be the first #1 overall to have a 4th year option declined. Just two consecutive bad situations for that kid and Maybe he just flat out sucks.

[nol]

from a financial standpoint, i´d rather have an owner who uses the savings to lower ticket prices, pays his regular employes more money or at least does not stoop to shortchanging low salary guys with legal but still kinda despicable moves and pressuring their 2nd rounders into a corner. (Hint: They did neither of those things). Otherwise, why would a fan or "bystander" care ? :confused:

A 2nd round pick is by definition backed into a corner; there are 450 spots in the NBA and those guys weren't even deemed one of the best 30 players coming into the league. Most of them play overseas or don't get signed and try the D League. The Sixers type of offer is the happy medium between taking more money overseas and playing somewhere in full view of NBA scouts. The players make the same amount of money a late first-rounder gets in exchange for not having a guaranteed contract in years 3 and 4.

As KJ McDaniels showed, players are 100 percent free to negotiate for a better deal (just as fans are 100 percent free to not spend thousands of dollars on season tickets). I'm positive the Sixers spend more than any other team on infrastructure like an analytics department, training facilities, and scouting, so it's definitely not some scheme to line the owners' pockets.

[JPhillips]

The shocking thing with the Sixers is how little they have to show for all the process. Right now they have no legit NBA bodies at three positions. They have a potential star center with an injury that may keep him from developing, a good, but one-dimensional big man, a potentially good, but one-dimensional center, and a foreign PF that may not play for two more seasons. The draft picks aren't going to save them, either. The LA and OKC picks will be late lottery/early playoff and the MIA pick will be early playoff if they stay healthy. The Sixers pick will be top five, as they'll still suck this year. But the other first rounders and the eleven extra second round picks from 2016 to 2021 aren't likely to bring in great players. But of course they'll have cap room, but starting next summer so will everyone else.

If they keep tanking, sure eventually they'll get a Durant type player, but how many years does the process get before results are called for?

[Arles]

The problem with Philly is they can't even develop their talented players with this roster. Okafor and Noel are playing with D-league guards and forwards. Had they drafted Harden or Kobe types, they could at least create their own shots, but Noel is dependent on guards to get him the ball. Okafor needs shooters to play off the double team. Instead, both these guys will get a big chunk of their points off offensive rebounds and individual efforts.

Even better is when Noel is a RFA after the 16/17 season and the cap will be immense. The team needs capable guards or even their prized front court assets will peace out the second they can. Given the numerous quality guards available via trade/draft/FA, it's criminal that Philly hasn't added a couple. Signing MLE level guards to 3-4 year deals for $7-8 mil over the past offseason (and even this one) isn't going to setback any massive FA plans in 2-3 years and might help develop the assets they have.

[murrayyyyy]

I'm positive the Sixers spend more than any other team on infrastructure like an analytics department, training facilities, and scouting, so it's definitely not some scheme to line the owners' pockets.

You mean the facility that hasn't broke ground? With the cost being covered the NJ economist development authority that gave the 76ers tax credits to cover the entire cost in the form of a 10 year grant?

Brings up another point. How many nba teams don't have their own training facility in the nba? Here the last I can think of...

1... wanna take a wild guess who that team is? They've held practice at the PCOM since 2000. That's right, the Philadelphia College of Osteopathic Medicine...

I doubt they spend more than Morey in Houston with analytics since heinke trained under him.

[RainMaker]

Analytics is not that big of an expense. Is there any team spending over $10 million a year in that department?

[nol]

Analytics is not that big of an expense. Is there any team spending over $10 million a year in that department?

I'd be pretty confident in saying yes. I have generally heard that if a team isn't spending over $3 million a year on analytics, they're pretty much not even trying.

The 76ers have hired away the Blazers' main analytics guy and the Rockets' main salary cap guy within the last year and have significantly more analytics/basketball operations positions listed in the staff directory than other teams do.

[Groundhog]

Can't seem to embed it here, but here's a Vine showing Okafor's thoughts on the Sixers rebuilding strategy:

Watch Michael Roche's Vine "No respect for the uniform #NBA #OKAFOR #sixers #Philadelphia76ers" (https://vine.co/v/eJeP9ltQBME)

[murrayyyyy]

Because 76ers news just keeps printing...

Report: Sixers Ordered To Pay MM To Pelicans | Hoops Rumors (http://www.hoopsrumors.com/2015/06/sixers-ordered-pelicans.html)

The NBA ordered the Sixers to pay $3MM to the Pelicans last season for not fully disclosing the extent of Jrue Holiday‘s injury before his 2013 trade.

Yeah, this is one clean organization...

[Qwikshot]

Because 76ers news just keeps printing...

Report: Sixers Ordered To Pay MM To Pelicans | Hoops Rumors (http://www.hoopsrumors.com/2015/06/sixers-ordered-pelicans.html)

The NBA ordered the Sixers to pay $3MM to the Pelicans last season for not fully disclosing the extent of Jrue Holiday‘s injury before his 2013 trade.

Yeah, this is one clean organization...

Does this mean the Sixers can sue the Lakers for Bynum?

[MrBug708]

Does this mean the Sixers can sue the Lakers for Bynum?

If the Sixers were too lazy to even read Andrew Bynum's wikipedia page, that's on them. Bynum never started more than 65 games in a season as a Laker because of injuries.

The article does mention that they are trying to get the league to look into it

[nol]

Does this mean the Sixers can sue the Lakers for Bynum?

Does it mean that trades in the NBA no longer depend on all players passing physicals for their new team?

[MrBug708]

Does it mean that trades in the NBA no longer depend on all players passing physicals for their new team?

Holiday passed his physical

[nol]

Holiday passed his physical

Holiday played in 78 games the season before, passed a physical exam, and had a stress fracture. I'm having a hard time seeing how more than two of those things can be true.

[murrayyyyy]

Holiday played in 78 games the season before, passed a physical exam, and had a stress fracture. I'm having a hard time seeing how more than two of those things can be true.

Played 9 mins in the final game of the season (when the fracture might have happened). No one noticed because it's Philly and they weren't in the playoffs. Traded 2-3 months later on draft night.

I mean a stress fracture is just a crack in the bone, isn't it. Doesn't say he has a broken leg so after 3 months rest it could be possible to pass a physical.

If there is nothing to it, maybe the NBA if just giving out a 3 million dollar fine but I'm thinking it has to do more with not disclosing an injury. Then trading an undisclosed injured player with a pick that also got you Elfrid Payton which you turned into Saric and Orlando's 2017 first round pick. They can't go back and give New Orleans the pick so I think they gave them an estimated value of the pick.

[Arles]

Looks like the Suns have agreed to a 5-year, $70 mil extension with Brandon Knight. Back in February, the fear was Knight would want a max deal (5-90) and the pick traded would end up as number 6-8 in this year's strong draft. Now that Knight has agreed to a deal $20 mil below the max and the Lakers pick is pushed to next season (where it could be in the 10-13 range if LA signs a few UFAs) - this deal is looking better from a Suns perspective.

I think they still need to move Bledsoe at some point in the next year or two, but they are on the right path. They are waiting to extend Knight officially so they can spend their $12 mil of cap space first. I doubt they are really in for Aldridge (even though Stein says they are a player), but if they can add a few FA pieces to go with Bledsoe, Knight, Booker, Len, the Morris twins, Archie Goodwin and TJ Warren - this team is somewhat interesting. Everyone is under 26 and they have a bunch of draft assets coming up as well.

[whomario]

yeah, thats a solid deal. Still not convinced that Knight is a good PG, but hes a good player (if that makes sense) for that money. At the end of the day, scoring is still sth you need.

Bogdanovic had a so-so season overseas, adjusting to a better team (Final 4 team Fenerbace) and struggling at times with a more restrictive system. Still another positive for the Suns, could be a rotation player when he comes over next year.

Zach Lowe on the Cap rise and the effect it ought to have on Phoenix, Utah or Milwaukee this year:

There might be only around 10 teams who end up with max-level cap room this summer.<sup id="ss-5">5</sup> (http://grantland.com/the-triangle/the-eight-biggest-nba-free-agency-questions/#fn-5) Damn near everyone will have that sort of space a year from now, and some teams will have enough for two max contracts — plus a third mid-sized deal. Cap room today is worth more than cap room tomorrow, especially for non-destination teams who can’t compete with the glamour boys on the open market


A bunch of those teams — Utah, Orlando, Milwaukee, Detroit, Phoenix, and others — have cap room this summer, and they should be hell-bent on using it. I don’t really even care who they sign, provided it’s not an obviously below-average player on the downswing. Pick a young or mid-career free agent and fucking splurge. Almost any deal with a solid player at $15 million or below this summer will look fine once the cap cracks $100 million.

Have a jones for Khris Middleton? MAX HIM OUT. Hesitant to snap up Monroe in free agency because you already have one decent low-post guy? SIGN HIM ANYWAY. Does $12 million for DeMarre Carroll or Danny Green seem insane? They’re in their primes, and they do very important NBA things well. GO GET THEM. Barring disaster, all these guys will be on tradable contracts if the fit isn’t ideal on your team.

I’ve heard all the counterarguments from cautious sorts around the league: “Spending for the sake of spending gets you in trouble.” Or: “We want to stay flexible for the summer of 2016, too!” I don’t buy any of them. Most of these teams will have room a year from now even if they spend this summer; if they can get a good player now, while the competition is thinner, they should — even if they have to jump the market by a million or two.

Don’t be shy, Magic and Bucks. Use the $15 million in cap room you have while Middleton and Tobias Harris, respectively, hang in free agency, and then spend heavy to bring those young dudes back.
Another bonus of spending at this level: Players below the All-Star level should be more keen on inking long-term deals, since it’s no guarantee their salaries will escalate along with the cap. Middleton might be a max player this summer, but that doesn’t mean he’ll be a max player in two years. Green might be a $12 million player under any cap level, and if he knows that, you might be able to get him for four years.


http://grantland.com/the-triangle/the-eight-biggest-nba-free-agency-questions/

[stevew]

Kings apparently trying to back a brinks truck up to Coach Cal. Not exactly the worst idea IMO.

[Logan]

Maybe second worst after backing that truck up for Phil to run a team.

[BishopMVP]

Maybe second worst after backing that truck up for Phil to run a team.Not when this week's imperative is placating Demarcus Cousins.

[Groundhog]

Kings apparently trying to back a brinks truck up to Coach Cal. Not exactly the worst idea IMO.

If Cal is smart (which he is), he shouldn't go anywhere near that ownership group. What a train wreck.

[Groundhog]

yeah, thats a solid deal. Still not convinced that Knight is a good PG, but hes a good player (if that makes sense) for that money. At the end of the day, scoring is still sth you need.


Yeah this is my feeling on Knight. I think he's valuable because he can shoot and play both backcourt positions, but I'd definitely be looking to move Bledsoe because I think having two sorta/kind/maybe PGs in the backcourt isn't going to be enough for the Suns to win in the West.

[Groundhog]

Oh god, I hope Kings keep Cousins, Karl, and then sign Rondo. Woah boy.

[Groundhog]

Imagine the floor spacing with Rondo-McLemore-Gay-Cousins-Cauley-Stein. Bring out the old Box-and-1, with the worst defender camped in from of McLemore just in case he tries to shoot a 3.

[stevew]

If Cal is smart (which he is), he shouldn't go anywhere near that ownership group. What a train wreck.

At worst he's maybe the Indian-American version of Daniel Snyder. At least he isn't afraid to spend like some teams are.

[Groundhog]

Looking at it, this is a pretty strong FA class. It's just that 95% of the top 15 are probably going to re-sign. Aldridge is the main question mark for me, but I expect the other guys in the top 10 are wearing the same jerseys next season.

Wade is an interesting case though... I wonder if Miami feel obliged to pay him. He's after some pretty impressive $$$ for a guy who is being held together by masking tape.

[whomario]

Aaaaaand we are off !

From what i could tell, among the very first (maybe even the first) to agree to a contract was ... Al-Farouq Aminu :D (30mio/4years to the Blazers)

Things of note so far, all with the caveat that nothing can be actually "official" yet (signing not allowed till July 9th):

- The Spurs trade Tiago Splitter to the Hawks. This may very well mean that Aldridge indicated that he will sign with them. It might also simply mean that the Spurs are doing it "just in case" and are willing to chance it.

- For the Hawks this might mean that they will let either Millsap or Carroll go.

- The Spurs also agree with Danny Green on 45/4, which is a fine enough compromise under the soon-to-go-up Cap.

- Anthony Davis will sign a Max Extension with the Hornets. Depending on the exact numbers on next years Cap, but early projection makes it out to be in the neighbourhood of 145/5 aka the Biggest contract in league history (by a lot). That would be the Derrick Rose rule in effect (player eligible to sign for 30% of the cap), for that he would need either another All Star Start, or make an All NBA team next season.

- Lillard also very likely signing a Max Extension (120/5 for him roundabout. However, he could be eligible for the Davis-version as well. Seems fuzzy if the Blazers would go that high)

- Goran Dragic re-signs with the Heat for 90/5 (which is about 20 mio below the max for him)



Rumour Mill:

- Blazers interested in Greg Monroe

- Pacers trying to sign Monta Ellis

[Chief Rum]

Heard this morning that the Spurs also resigned Kawhi Leonard (I think toa max deal).

Not sure how they can afford Leonard and Green and their current roster of stars and also add Aldridge at max level, but then, I'm no cap expert.

[Arles]

Dragic is going to re-sign for 5-90 with the Heat ($15 mil below the $105 mil max they could have). Not a terrible deal, but paying a small guard who's main strength is getting to the rim 18+ mil for his 32-34 year old seasons seems a little risky. If Miami ends up giving Wade the extension he wants, that will be a lot of money in aging guards. All that said, as much as I did not want the Suns to give Dragic $18+ mil over 5 years - I don't think it was a terrible move for the Heat. Bosh, Wade and Dragic are all between 29 and 33 - so it makes sense to play this out.

I just think that 2018 first the Suns have could be pretty valuable as Bosh (33), Wade (35) and Dragic (32) will be making up around $60 mil on the cap the prior season.

[Arles]

Looks like Carrol has just agreed to a 4-year $60 mil deal with Toronto. It's hard to tell what's a good or bad deal with all the cap flux over the next two seasons, but this seems fairly reasonable as he will be only 33 when it ends.

[lungs]

Khris Middleton and the Bucks agreed to a 5 year $70 million deal.

[whomario]

Heard this morning that the Spurs also resigned Kawhi Leonard (I think toa max deal).

Not sure how they can afford Leonard and Green and their current roster of stars and also add Aldridge at max level, but then, I'm no cap expert.


Many factors to consider here.

Leonard has a "cap hold" of only about 7.2 mio, Danny Green about 7.5. The difference between that and the starting salary of the new contracts do not come into play until they place their signature under it. Which they won´t until everybody else is signed. (and both can be signed without the nescessary cap space, as the spurs have their bird rights). Just another example of the Spurs unique ability to play "the long con" with the culture they have. Had Leonard and Green signed extensions rather than trusting the Spurs to keep their end of the bargain after the season, this would all be moot.
On the flip side, Duncan has a cap hold of 15.5. As soon as he signs for, say, 7 mio that difference goes away. And Manu has a hold of 10 mio. If he retires or agrees to resign for the "room exception" of about 3 mio, the Spurs can renounce his right and clear that cap hold off the books. Likely more gymnastics nescessary, but possible.

The detailed version since i wanted to figure out myself: The Spurs can do more with their cap space than you think - Pounding The Rock (http://www.poundingtherock.com/2015/6/27/8857289/san-antonio-spurs-free-agency-primer)

[jbergey22]

Khris Middleton and the Bucks agreed to a 5 year $70 million deal.

Interesting! I know he had a nice year but was he just a product of limited options or is he really worth this? Seems more like a 6th man off of a playoff team rather than a 3rd option on a playoff team.

[nol]

Heard this morning that the Spurs also resigned Kawhi Leonard (I think toa max deal).

Not sure how they can afford Leonard and Green and their current roster of stars and also add Aldridge at max level, but then, I'm no cap expert.

Because they just have an agreement in place for Leonard and haven't signed him yet. They're able to go over the cap to re-sign their own players so they'd sign Aldridge and then Leonard. They got Green for quite a steal; some team with room should have offered him around $15 million/year to make things harder for the Spurs.


The new cap basically multiplies everything by a little over 1.5, so Carroll is signed for the equivalent of under $10M/year and someone like Aminu is essentially earning the mid-level exemption.

[Chief Rum]

Many factors to consider here.

Leonard has a "cap hold" of only about 7.2 mio, Danny Green about 7.5. The difference between that and the starting salary of the new contracts do not come into play until they place their signature under it. Which they won´t until everybody else is signed. (and both can be signed without the nescessary cap space, as the spurs have their bird rights). Just another example of the Spurs unique ability to play "the long con" with the culture they have. Had Leonard and Green signed extensions rather than trusting the Spurs to keep their end of the bargain after the season, this would all be moot.
On the flip side, Duncan has a cap hold of 15.5. As soon as he signs for, say, 7 mio that difference goes away. And Manu has a hold of 10 mio. If he retires or agrees to resign for the "room exception" of about 3 mio, the Spurs can renounce his right and clear that cap hold off the books. Likely more gymnastics nescessary, but possible.

The detailed version since i wanted to figure out myself: The Spurs can do more with their cap space than you think - Pounding The Rock (http://www.poundingtherock.com/2015/6/27/8857289/san-antonio-spurs-free-agency-primer)

Are Duncan and Ginobli free agents?

[whomario]

Are Duncan and Ginobli free agents?

yes. Everybody on the spurs is but Parker, Diaw, Mills, Anderson.

[lungs]

Interesting! I know he had a nice year but was he just a product of limited options or is he really worth this? Seems more like a 6th man off of a playoff team rather than a 3rd option on a playoff team.

Hard for me to say, opinion seems to be about 65% in favor and 35% against amongst the rumblings in some Bucks forums I read. He definitely stepped up after Brandon Knight left. I liked him a lot and don't see it as too big of a deal with the cap going up but my basketball knowledge is pretty elementary.

[nol]

Hard for me to say, opinion seems to be about 65% in favor and 35% against amongst the rumblings in some Bucks forums I read. He definitely stepped up after Brandon Knight left. I liked him a lot and don't see it as too big of a deal with the cap going up but my basketball knowledge is pretty elementary.

He's a legitimate 3 and D player (who's only 23) and contrary to popular opinion, those aren't just guys you can find in the late first round or in Europe/the D-League. It's sticker shock now, but in a few years players like Giannis and Jabari will be signing extensions for $20+ million a year, which is pretty much in line with what a player like Middleton should be making relative to them.

[Chief Rum]

Clippers talking to Wesley Johnson, Jeremy Lin, Willie Green, Corey Brewer and CJ Watson.

Will someone please lock GM Doc Rivers in the utility closet for the next two weeks?

[Subby]

To quote Simmons: "GM Doc is KILLING the Clippers!"

[BishopMVP]

Yeah, I really like Middleton. He, Tobias Harris, and Jae Crowder (at a lower salary level) were the 3 RFA's I hoped the Celtics targeted - all can play multiple positions in D, shoot 3's, and are very young.

Especially when Al-Farouq Aminu is getting 4/$30 and DeMarre Carroll 4/$60.

[Logan]

Love back to Cleveland.

http://www.theplayerstribune.com/kevin-love-cavaliers-unfinished-business/

[miami_fan]

Love back to Cleveland.

Unfinished Business | The Players' Tribune (http://www.theplayerstribune.com/kevin-love-cavaliers-unfinished-business/)

Pretty good deal for the Cavs.

[Subby]

SENIOR editor, Kevin Love!

[BishopMVP]

Love back to Cleveland.

Unfinished Business | The Players' Tribune (http://www.theplayerstribune.com/kevin-love-cavaliers-unfinished-business/)Good. Did not want him as the Celtics centerpiece. A bit surprised he signed for 5 years instead of 1/2 plus a player option.

Now I hope the Celtics target Tobias Harris.

[BishopMVP]

New worst contract of the day - Alexis Ajinca 4 years, $20 million.

[Subby]

Tyson Chandler to the Suns which might mean DeAndre to the Mavs?

[RainMaker]

Interesting! I know he had a nice year but was he just a product of limited options or is he really worth this? Seems more like a 6th man off of a playoff team rather than a 3rd option on a playoff team.

He's a really good 3 and D guy and only 23 years old. Actually thought he'd get a max. Remember the cap is going up a ton. These $14m per year deals are going to be like $9m per year deals in a few years.

[RainMaker]

Tyson Chandler to the Suns which might mean DeAndre to the Mavs?

Guess Tyson is going to help the Suns pitch Aldridge. Would be a fascinating team if they could nab him too.

[Subby]

New worst contract of the day - Alexis Ajinca 4 years, $20 million.
New leader in the clubhouse!
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-partner="tweetdeck"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Restricted free agent Kyle Singler has agreed to a five-year, nearly $25M extension with Oklahoma City, league source tells Yahoo Sports.</p>&mdash; Adrian Wojnarowski (@WojYahooNBA) <a href="https://twitter.com/WojYahooNBA/status/616329127407149057">July 1, 2015</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[stevew]

Who is signing with the Lakers?

[Chief Rum]

New leader in the clubhouse!
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-partner="tweetdeck"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Restricted free agent Kyle Singler has agreed to a five-year, nearly $25M extension with Oklahoma City, league source tells Yahoo Sports.</p>&mdash; Adrian Wojnarowski (@WojYahooNBA) <a href="https://twitter.com/WojYahooNBA/status/616329127407149057">July 1, 2015</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

You're just saying that cuz he's white! :D

[Chief Rum]

Who is signing with the Lakers?

I actually went into the offseason hoping the Lakers would end up with an Aldridge or a Love and some other good piece to get them to at least playoff contender level, as it would make competing with them that much more interesting as a Clips fan.

But now that it appears they may be on the outside looking in on a lot of guys, I'm not too upset.

[BishopMVP]

Guess Tyson is going to help the Suns pitch Aldridge. Would be a fascinating team if they could nab him too.Still gonna be shocking if LMA doesn't go to San Antonio.

Celtics signed Amir Johnson 2/$24 and Jonas Jerebko 2/$10... Ummm.... Should've just offered Tobias Harris 5/$90

I guess Dallas and LAL both have to be all-in on DeAndre Jordan at this point. That Mavs pick the Celtics own looking a little better.

[Chief Rum]

I guess Dallas and LAL both have to be all-in on DeAndre Jordan at this point. That Mavs pick the Celtics own looking a little better.

And even with DJ, they can't match the Clips on money or term, nor do they offer him continuing to play with his best friend.

[BishopMVP]

And even with DJ, they can't match the Clips on money or term, nor do they offer him continuing to play with his best friend.Remember 12 hours ago when Lakers fans (and front office) thought they were gonna get LMA and DJ? That Lakers pick Phoenix traded for Knight back to looking like a lottery pick.

[nol]

Remember 12 hours ago when Lakers fans (and front office) thought they were gonna get LMA and DJ? That Lakers pick Phoenix traded for Knight back to looking like a lottery pick.

It was a lottery pick no matter what. Consider how entrenched most of the West playoff teams are and then remember that Oklahoma City is the first team to replace whoever ends up slipping (and the Jazz are probably next based on how they played once Gobert started playing a bigger role). A lineup of Russell-Clarkson-Kobe-Randle-Aldridge would have gotten absolutely torched on defense.

[Brian Swartz]

I wonder what changed with Aldridge. A few days ago it seemed he was a lock to go to LA according to the reports.

I'm a bit queasy about SA going all-in on him, though it does seem better than any of the alternatives.

[nol]

I wonder what changed with Aldridge. A few days ago it seemed he was a lock to go to LA according to the reports.

I'm a bit queasy about SA going all-in on him, though it does seem better than any of the alternatives.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Kobe spoke for about three minutes in the presentation, said he envisioned LaMarcus Aldridge working with him the same way Pau Gasol did.</p>&mdash; Mike Bresnahan (@Mike_Bresnahan) <a href="https://twitter.com/Mike_Bresnahan/status/616349177946083328">July 1, 2015</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[Brian Swartz]

...
...
...

*guh*

Thanks Kobe! :P

[Arles]

Still gonna be shocking if LMA doesn't go to San Antonio.

Celtics signed Amir Johnson 2/$24 and Jonas Jerebko 2/$10... Ummm.... Should've just offered Tobias Harris 5/$90

I guess Dallas and LAL both have to be all-in on DeAndre Jordan at this point. That Mavs pick the Celtics own looking a little better.
Sounds like Dallas is trying to do a S&T with Phoenix that sends Chandler (4/52) to Phoenix for Brendan Wright (whatever contract Dallas works out with him). There may also be an aspect that involve Aldridge and Portland if he decides on Phoenix:

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-conversation="none" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">.<a href="https://twitter.com/BobbyMarks42">@BobbyMarks42</a> I'm trying to figure out of PHX can pull a double s-and-t: Wright/Chandler, and LMA/whatever POR wants to match $. Head hurts</p>&mdash; Zach Lowe (@ZachLowe_NBA) <a href="https://twitter.com/ZachLowe_NBA/status/616342747478380544">July 1, 2015</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[Arles]

Bresnahan just tweeted this about LMA and the Lakers. Sounds like he passed on them:

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">LaMarcus Aldridge will not be joining the Lakers, The Times has learned. They were a 50-50 choice but he disliked bball part of presentation</p>&mdash; Mike Bresnahan (@Mike_Bresnahan) <a href="https://twitter.com/Mike_Bresnahan/status/616344498944151553">July 1, 2015</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
It appears the Suns still have an outside chance after SA/Houston, but I can't think it's very high:
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Suns GM Ryan McDonough and staff -- with Tyson Chandler -- still in meeting with Aldridge now in Los Angeles, sources tell Yahoo.</p>&mdash; Adrian Wojnarowski (@WojYahooNBA) <a href="https://twitter.com/WojYahooNBA/status/616347005112061952">July 1, 2015</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

As to the Chandler deal, it's probably a year too many - but I don't mind the money. The Suns badly needed a veteran leader (pref not a guard) as most of the team is under 26.

[Arles]

Wow, there's an ESPN report the Golden State isn't willing to give Draymond Green the same offer that Middleton and Knight got in FA (5/70) - which is what he's asking for. Given the market, I'd have to think that someone would give him a better deal than those two. Sounds like a dangerous game to play with the Knicks, Mavs and Lakers begging someone to take their cap space.

[BishopMVP]

Sounds like Dallas is trying to do a S&T with Phoenix that sends Chandler (4/52) to Phoenix for Brendan Wright (whatever contract Dallas works out with him). There may also be an aspect that involve Aldridge and Portland if he decides on Phoenix:

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-conversation="none" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">.<a href="https://twitter.com/BobbyMarks42">@BobbyMarks42</a> I'm trying to figure out of PHX can pull a double s-and-t: Wright/Chandler, and LMA/whatever POR wants to match $. Head hurts</p>&mdash; Zach Lowe (@ZachLowe_NBA) <a href="https://twitter.com/ZachLowe_NBA/status/616342747478380544">July 1, 2015</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>That would help Phoenix make the money work if LMA picks them, but isn't going to help them get LMA. Signing Chandler was big because LMA hated playing center so much, but I can't imagine trading Bledsoe or the Morii would help sell LMA on Phoenix.

[stevew]

It would be nice if the Cavs could trade Haywood somewhere to someone under the cap so they can score a 10M exception.

[Arles]

That would help Phoenix make the money work if LMA picks them, but isn't going to help them get LMA. Signing Chandler was big because LMA hated playing center so much, but I can't imagine trading Bledsoe or the Morii would help sell LMA on Phoenix.
I think that's the point. After signing Chandler, the Suns didn't have any cap space left (they had about $12 mil going in). So, if LMA does pick them, they would need some creativity to make it all work.

[Chief Rum]

I think that's the point. After signing Chandler, the Suns didn't have any cap space left (they had about $12 mil going in). So, if LMA does pick them, they would need some creativity to make it all work.

When I see "need some creativity to make it all work", that pretty much reads as "not going to happen."

As for the Lakers with LMA thing, I'm not shocked. That franchise ownership now, in the wake of Buss Sr. departing, has been a mess for years now. I just think Jim Buss is a bad manager of a franchise, but he's too arrogant to see it. And he and his sister are too fractious with each other to form an effective team.

Some examples of odd Laker front office behavior: 1) offering Kobe cap killing money last year; 2) the whole Dwight Howard thing; 3) the four interviews before hiring Byron Scott; 4) the firing of Buss Sr.'s long time scouting staff; 5) the treatment of Phil Jackson when they hired D'Antoni; 6) the terrible coaching decisions (Mike Brown, D'Antoni, Scott).

The Busses are a trainwreck now with Dad gone.

[Sublime 2]

Still gonna be shocking if LMA doesn't go to San Antonio.

Celtics signed Amir Johnson 2/$24 and Jonas Jerebko 2/$10... Ummm.... Should've just offered Tobias Harris 5/$90

I guess Dallas and LAL both have to be all-in on DeAndre Jordan at this point. That Mavs pick the Celtics own looking a little better.

I'm not positive, but I think the Celtics could still stretch Gerald Wallace's contract to gain enough room to offer sheet Harris, but I'm not sure they're willing to go to 5/$90.

[Groundhog]

lol @ LMA disliking the 'bball' part of the presentation. I'm guessing it was 30 minutes of Kobe shooting contested long two-point jumpers.

If GSW don't give Green the money he is after, they are nuts. Curry is great, but he is a huge part of the reason behind their success last year.

[nol]

lol @ LMA disliking the 'bball' part of the presentation. I'm guessing it was 30 minutes of Kobe shooting contested long two-point jumpers.

If GSW don't give Green the money he is after, they are nuts. Curry is great, but he is a huge part of the reason behind their success last year.

Golden State is going to match whatever. They're just using the usual RFA technique of having the player find an offer sheet elsewhere at first. This year is definitely rare in terms of how many restricted free agents have re-signed on the very first day.

[murrayyyyy]

3 years for Paul Pierce? Someone needs to get that wheelchair ready in Staples Center.

[nol]

Clippers talking to Wesley Johnson, Jeremy Lin, Willie Green, Corey Brewer and CJ Watson.

Will someone please lock GM Doc Rivers in the utility closet for the next two weeks?

I was gonna say, at least wait until Paul Pierce signs and DeAndre re-signs for GM Doc to take a break.

[Chief Rum]

I was gonna say, at least wait until Paul Pierce signs and DeAndre re-signs for GM Doc to take a break.

Meh...those offers have been made. Pierce was either coming or not. I always thought DJ would stay for max money and playing with Blake.

[murrayyyyy]

Is ATL really better with Milsap playing the 3, Horford at the 4 and Splitter at the 5?

[Groundhog]

Millsap can maybeeeeeee pull off the SF conversion, but it's a bit of a plodding frontcourt overall.

Jordan is crazy if he leaves LA (assuming they max him) given 95% of his offense comes from just being on the court with CP3 and Blake.

[Izulde]

I can't wait for Kobe to retire.

[heybrad]

I can't wait for Kobe to retire.
A big +1 to this.

[MrBug708]

Yup

[BishopMVP]

I'm not positive, but I think the Celtics could still stretch Gerald Wallace's contract to gain enough room to offer sheet Harris, but I'm not sure they're willing to go to 5/$90.No need to stretch Wallace, plus he makes a really good trade chip when paired with our trade exceptions. Btw, if the reports are true and the 2nd year is non-guaranteed for both Johnson and Jerebko I like it a lot more.

(Also, remember when people were freaking out over Avery Bradley getting $8m/y?)

[murrayyyyy]

Jordan is crazy if he leaves LA (assuming they max him) given 95% of his offense comes from just being on the court with CP3 and Blake.

I dunno on this one. I mean he is from Texas, he went to A&M and a Texas team is offering you. You go from the worst Marginal Income Tax rate situation to the best (13.3% to 0%). Add in that he is only 26 years old so he has a chance at maybe 2 more max deals with Dallas. That's a lot of money to look at turning down.

When Washington free agent Trevor Ariza agreed to a four-year, $32 million deal with Houston — accepting essentially the same salary the Wizards offered him — multiple outlets noted a big difference in Ariza’s take-home pay with the Rockets. The lack of a state tax in Texas vs. the local taxes (and higher cost of living) in and around Washington, D.C., meant the veteran wing player would pocket as much as $3 million more by working and living in Houston.

That's a 4 year 32 million dollar deal. Tristian Thompson just got $80 million for 5 years. Middleton got 5 years and $70m. If he can get close to 90 million over 5 years that still give him his last contract at 31 and probably pockets him an extra 12 million in his pocket going from Cali to Texas.

Banners may hang forever but a bank account for a guy without a ton of endorsements is probably more valuable. The Mavs can go buy him a PG when the cap gets out of control in 2 years.

[murrayyyyy]

Sounds like Dallas is trying to do a S&T with Phoenix that sends Chandler (4/52) to Phoenix for Brendan Wright (whatever contract Dallas works out with him). There may also be an aspect that involve Aldridge and Portland if he decides on Phoenix:

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-conversation="none" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">.<a href="https://twitter.com/BobbyMarks42">@BobbyMarks42</a> I'm trying to figure out of PHX can pull a double s-and-t: Wright/Chandler, and LMA/whatever POR wants to match $. Head hurts</p>&mdash; Zach Lowe (@ZachLowe_NBA) <a href="https://twitter.com/ZachLowe_NBA/status/616342747478380544">July 1, 2015</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Grizz signed Brandan Wirght for the MLE today. Wright and Gasol look a lot different from when they played against each other in HS.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CI3NeJBVEAAfhyj.jpg

[nol]

Millsap can maybeeeeeee pull off the SF conversion, but it's a bit of a plodding frontcourt overall.

Splitter does not play enough minutes to have to worry about getting all three on the court at once. He's a good backup big guy and good to have for certain matchups, but Tiago Splitter is not someone who changes a team's overall offensive strategy

[Groundhog]

Splitter does not play enough minutes to have to worry about getting all three on the court at once. He's a good backup big guy and good to have for certain matchups, but Tiago Splitter is not someone who changes a team's overall offensive strategy

That's probably going to change in Atlanta though - I'm assuming they expect him to be their starting C. I imagine he'll be seeing more minutes than he did in San Antonio now, given the Hawks aren't nearly as flexible with their lineup... especially with Carroll gone.

[murrayyyyy]

That's probably going to change in Atlanta though - I'm assuming they expect him to be their starting C. I imagine he'll be seeing more minutes than he did in San Antonio now, given the Hawks aren't nearly as flexible with their lineup... especially with Carroll gone.

And Antic aigned overseas before free agency

[stevew]

Can I just say that I'm like 50% as interested in the playoffs/draft/off-season as normal due to Simmons not being around. I feel like he was great at culling all the appropriate viewpoints and I'm basically lost.

[MikeVic]

Can I just say that I'm like 50% as interested in the playoffs/draft/off-season as normal due to Simmons not being around. I feel like he was great at culling all the appropriate viewpoints and I'm basically lost.

Yeah, I don't know the whole story both times he's had an extended absence during NBA pre-season/off-season stuff, but it sucks for fans. I think he was suspended in the middle of the pre-season countdown last year. I listen to most of his podcasts, so it sucks those aren't around right now too.

[JonInMiddleGA]

That's probably going to change in Atlanta though - I'm assuming they expect him to be their starting C. I imagine he'll be seeing more minutes than he did in San Antonio now, given the Hawks aren't nearly as flexible with their lineup... especially with Carroll gone.

That does not appear to be the plan, what I've read talks about Splitter being able to play alongside both bigs in relief with rare times for all three to be on the floor together (no belief that Millsap can guard the 3). At the moment the team really doesn't have a starting small forward -- Thabo is closest but will be coming back from injury & is preferred off the bench presumably -- so more moves are expected.

[nol]

Sixers get Stauskas from the Kings in exchange for taking on some salary. Kings planning on using that salary room on Rondo and Monta Ellis :popcorn:

[Groundhog]

That Rondo/Ellis backcourt was really dynamite for Dallas last season...........

[RainMaker]

Sixers get Stauskas from the Kings in exchange for taking on some salary. Kings planning on using that salary room on Rondo and Monta Ellis :popcorn:

They are also giving up another 1st and the Sixers have the right to swap 1st rounders with them in 2 other seasons. That is a really bad trade for the Kings.

[stevew]

Draymond gets 5/85

[BishopMVP]

Can I just say that I'm like 50% as interested in the playoffs/draft/off-season as normal due to Simmons not being around. I feel like he was great at culling all the appropriate viewpoints and I'm basically lost.Zach Lowe and Woj are the two I make sure to follow. Grantland also still does big roundups after a big day like this, although some of their contributors get a little too cute and their analysis can be hit or miss.

F.e. Lowe had a big podcast with Marc Stein yesterday, although it's probably 50% out of date by now. ‘The Lowe Post’ Podcast: Marc Stein on LaMarcus Aldridge, DeAndre Jordan, and More « (Http://grantland.com/the-triangle/the-lowe-post-podcast-marc-stein-on-lamarcus-aldridge-deandre-jordan-and-more/)

[nol]

Monta Ellis would probably be the prototypical guy to gamble for a steal a couple times and then go cherrypick in the 4-on-5 system.


This is the craziest thing about the Kings' situation: Best 5-man units (http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/plus/lineup_finder.cgi?request=1&player_id=&match=single&lineup_type=5-man&output=per_min&year_id=2015&is_playoffs=N&team_id=&opp_id=&game_num_min=0&game_num_max=99&game_month=&game_location=&game_result=&c1stat=diff_pts&c1comp=ge&c1val=10&c2stat=mp&c2comp=ge&c2val=200&c3stat=&c3comp=ge&c3val=&c4stat=&c4comp=ge&c4val=&order_by=diff_pts), Best 4-man units (http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/plus/lineup_finder.cgi?request=1&player_id=&match=single&lineup_type=4-man&output=per_min&year_id=2015&is_playoffs=N&team_id=&opp_id=&game_num_min=0&game_num_max=99&game_month=&game_location=&game_result=&c1stat=diff_pts&c1comp=ge&c1val=10&c2stat=mp&c2comp=ge&c2val=400&c3stat=&c3comp=ge&c3val=&c4stat=&c4comp=ge&c4val=&order_by=diff_pts)

They actually played pretty well before people started getting injured and coaches started getting fired; by the time all of that blew over, it was time to go into "keep the protected pick" mode. The bench was so devoid of actual NBA players that I could not rule out a playoff run given the right free agency moves - even amid all the craziness.

The unfortunate reality is that the front office is such a shitshow that they're going to have to pay a premium to sign anyone decent. It would be nice if someone there had the gravitas to be like "Look, Rondo, we know you're not really hearing from anybody right now. You're basically one year from playing in China. We're gonna give you this one year deal and this is going to be the best situation for you to rehab your image just in time to get one last big contract when the cap rises," so the Kings would have the money to get another shooter or two in the mix.

[stevew]

Wesley Matthews is a nice piece, but injury wise I'm not sure what kind of price you'll end up paying. Seems like the type of guy that the Knicks should attempt to lure with a large 1 year deal. I guess you gotta figure his price was going to be approx 17m a year before injury.

[Vince, Pt. II]

Zach Lowe and Woj are the two I make sure to follow. Grantland also still does big roundups after a big day like this, although some of their contributors get a little too cute and their analysis can be hit or miss.

F.e. Lowe had a big podcast with Marc Stein yesterday, although it's probably 50% out of date by now. ‘The Lowe Post’ Podcast: Marc Stein on LaMarcus Aldridge, DeAndre Jordan, and More « (Http://grantland.com/the-triangle/the-lowe-post-podcast-marc-stein-on-lamarcus-aldridge-deandre-jordan-and-more/)

I'll second the Zach Lowe recommendation. Really enjoyed just about everything I've ever seen/read from him.

[RainMaker]

Has anyone ever come back from an achilles tear and been like themselves? Seems a lot of people putting faith in Matthews being healthy.

Also the 4 on 5 plan is one of the dumbest ideas in the history of the NBA and I am happy that the man behind it is nowhere near a franchise I like.

[Neon_Chaos]

I'll second the Zach Lowe recommendation. Really enjoyed just about everything I've ever seen/read from him.

+1 more. Zach Lowe is just really really knowledgable without being pretentious.

[Groundhog]

If I'm the Knicks, I give the Rockets a call and see if they want Melo for some parts - Dekker/Motiejunas/T.Jones.

[JeeberD]

If I'm the Knicks, I give the Rockets a call and see if they want Melo for some parts - Dekker/Motiejunas/T.Jones.

Why would we want another ballhog? I don't see Melo and Harden playing well together...

[JeeberD]

Dola-

And there's no way we give up both Jones and Motiejunas.

[murrayyyyy]

Greg Monroe just chose the Bucks over the Knicks and Lakers.

Things I would have never said 2 years ago. A player thinks the Bucks are the better choice.

[Logan]

Wow, there's an ESPN report the Golden State isn't willing to give Draymond Green the same offer that Middleton and Knight got in FA (5/70) - which is what he's asking for.

Draymond gets 5/85

Go ESPN!