Yet another school shooting.

[cuervo72]

Like I said, mass shootings are the new America's pasttime. If he was alive, we could get him to sign it with a certificate of authenticity. Maybe PSA could grade it too.

Bah, everybody has beaten me to the Harlan Crow joke.

[cuervo72]

Oh, and the water bottle thing is probably just setting the table for justifying the shooting of protesters if they throw frozen water bottles.

[Lathum]

Further justification for not being allowed to hand out bottles of water to voters in line to vote. Checkmate libs

[Atocep]

Further justification for not being allowed to hand out bottles of water to voters in line to vote. Checkmate libs

They should hand out guns to voters standing in line

[RainMaker]

In a normal country, this would involve CPS.


<samp class="EmbedCode-container"><code class="EmbedCode-code"><blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Gov. Kristi Noem (R-SD), addressing the NRA-ILA Leadership Forum, says her nearly 2-year-old granddaughter “already has a shotgun, and she already has a rifle.” <a href="https://t.co/d7V4Kslmo3">pic.twitter.com/d7V4Kslmo3</a></p>&mdash; The Recount (@therecount) <a href="https://twitter.com/therecount/status/1646957717519466496?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">April 14, 2023</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script> </code></samp>

[miami_fan]

Question about gun law. With states going to permit less carry laws, does that mean there is no longer a distinction between legal and illegal gun ownership?

[Ghost Econ]

Question about gun law. With states going to permit less carry laws, does that mean there is no longer a distinction between legal and illegal gun ownership?

Seems like the issue will be pretty black and white.

[NobodyHere]

So why aren't we giving guns to teenagers?

https://apnews.com/article/dadeville-alabama-shooting-party-137935e7cbc5b2470571eaee7febb161

[Lathum]

The shootings rocked the city of 3,200 residents, which is about 57 miles (92 kilometers) northeast of Montgomery, Alabama.

Weird. The GOP and Fox news tell me these incidents only happen in the democratic run cities.

[cuervo72]

At some point this will have to happen enough times in their own communities that enough of them get tired of it, right?

[Edward64]

Question about gun law. With states going to permit less carry laws, does that mean there is no longer a distinction between legal and illegal gun ownership?

Not sure if I'm missing a nuance here but I don't see how?

You still need to acquire the weapon legally. Regardless if you carry or not, with or without a permit, you still need to acquire the weapon legally.

There's the gun show loophole, and another with passing firearms to family & friends without a background check. But those loopholes existed before the more recent lax (okay, non existent) carry regulations.

[miami_fan]

Not sure if I'm missing a nuance here but I don't see how?

You still need to acquire the weapon legally. Regardless if you carry or not, with or without a permit, you still need to acquire the weapon legally.

There's the gun show loophole, and another with passing firearms to family & friends without a background check. But those loopholes existed before the more recent lax (okay, non existent) carry regulations.

What does "acquire the weapon legally" mean though? If I have a weapon, what is the tell that I did not acquired the weapon legally? No one outside of the military has ever asked for proof of purchase for the weapons I own though I do have them or whether there was a three day wait in between purchase and delivery.

The reason I ask is based on conversations I had with a friend who used to work in law enforcement regarding the permit less carry laws. He was saying that the one of the triggers (no pun intended) to investigate whether a weapon was acquired legally was whether it was registered to the possessor and/or if the possessor had a permit. With both those things now off the books at least here in Florida, I was just curious as to what the distinction was in both a legal and practical sense in what is legal and what is illegal.

[Galaril]

Not sure if I'm missing a nuance here but I don't see how?

You still need to acquire the weapon legally. Regardless if you carry or not, with or without a permit, you still need to acquire the weapon legally.

There's the gun show loophole, and another with passing firearms to family & friends without a background check. But those loopholes existed before the more recent lax (okay, non existent) carry regulations.

Without backgrounds checks or closing the gun show loophole as long as you are white there is realistically no difference. Trying to define getting a gun illegally is a lot harder to define is all I will say.

[Edward64]

What does "acquire the weapon legally" mean though? If I have a weapon, what is the tell that I did not acquired the weapon legally? No one outside of the military has ever asked for proof of purchase for the weapons I own though I do have them or whether there was a three day wait in between purchase and delivery.

In GA at least, you need to pass a background check to buy a gun (loopholes notwithstanding). There's an age limitation and if you are a felon.


Q: What is required to purchase a firearm in the state of Georgia?
A: You will need a valid state-issued ID. Many Federal Firearms Licensees will not transfer long guns to out-of-state residents. This is due to the Federal Firearms Licensee?s requirement to uphold your resident state?s gun laws, and the inherent complexity associated with many states. Federal Firearms Licensee?s are prohibited by federal law from transferring hand guns to out-of-state residents.

Q: Do I have to pass a background check when purchasing a firearm from a Dealer?
A: You will be required to pass a background check when purchasing a firearm from a dealer. However, if you possess a valid Georgia Weapons License, your Georgia Weapons License will suffice as your background check. You will be required to show your state issued ID and your Georgia Weapons License in order to avoid the background check. Some firearms businesses may require a background check even if you have a GWL but it is not required by law. It is instead the business’ practices.

The 2 loopholes I can think of are 1) gun shows 2) transferring weapons as gifts.

However, these 2 loopholes existed long before GA didn't need a carry license. Therefore, from how I understand your question, the carry issue didn't cause the issue of "legal or illegal gun ownership".

The reason I ask is based on conversations I had with a friend who used to work in law enforcement regarding the permit less carry laws. He was saying that the one of the triggers (no pun intended) to investigate whether a weapon was acquired legally was whether it was registered to the possessor and/or if the possessor had a permit. With both those things now off the books at least here in Florida, I was just curious as to what the distinction was in both a legal and practical sense in what is legal and what is illegal.

IMO, I'd say a trigger to investigate is if the person/weapon was suspected of a criminal activity?

With that said, I am not an advocate of open carry in urban areas. I can rationalize that out in the Montana boonies etc. but no reason at Krogers. I do support concealed carry with a permit ... but that is not where we are in GA.

May have shared this story previously. I was walking into my Kroger and there was a guy with an open carry, holstered weapon on his belt putting the groceries into the trunk. Perfectly "normal" looking guy, just wanted to express his new found rights I guess. I've encountered that several more times now but that was the first time.

[miami_fan]

IMO, I'd say a trigger to investigate is if the person/weapon was suspected of a criminal activity?


So you have not been asked to provide a permit for the weapon in your vehicle, huh?

[Ksyrup]

We had a guy walking his dog in our neighborhood holstered up a few weeks ago. I'm pretty sure he brought the gun instead of a bag to pick up his dog's shit because, you know, who's going to be stupid enough to confront an armed dog walker about not picking up the poop in the yard?

[RainMaker]

When I was traveling, I saw a guy at a Panda Express with what I think was an AR-15 on his back. I just don't get how terrified some people are of the world.

[Edward64]

So you have not been asked to provide a permit for the weapon in your vehicle, huh?

Not sure I understand your questioning but taking it on face value ...

In GA, I do not need to have a gun permit nor do I need a carry license. I just need to purchase the weapon legally e.g. buy at gun store, they do a background check, and I'm out the door in < 30 min or so.

When I've bought a weapon and took it home, or when I go to a gun range, I always have the weapon in the trunk. I've not been stopped for speeding or anything since college days but don't think it's SOP for police to ask unless they felt they had a reason to.

If I was stopped for speeding, per GA law, I don't need to volunteer that I have a weapon on me, trunk, glove compartment etc. But if I had the weapon case visible in the passenger side or holstered to my belt, I would make darn sure my hands were on the steering wheel, volunteer the info anyway (just smart thing to do), and comply with any police request.

The bottom line. You do not need to volunteer any information. But comply with instructions & answer any questions from the police in any situation (regardless if you have a gun in the car) ... without smart mouthing or any sudden movements.


Additional note. When I was in Arkansas for college, it was a normal to see shotguns and hunting rifles in a gun rack in a truck. College buddies and I would have our weapons in the car when we went shooting. We kept the weapons on campus (I believe that was allowed or at least not enforced).

[miami_fan]

Not sure I understand your questioning but taking it on face value ...

In GA, I do not need to have a gun permit nor do I need a carry license. I just need to purchase the weapon legally e.g. buy at gun store, they do a background check, and I'm out the door in < 30 min or so.


It is a sincere question. You have outlined a gun purchase process in GA. Let's put it this way. There is no requirement for a gun permit, a carry license or a background check to carry the weapon. There is also no requirement that a person purchase a weapon from a licensed gun dealer which is the only place required to do background checks so there is really no requirement for a background check if you don't want to have one done. All those things at one point in time were the distinctions that made gun purchases legal and not doing those things or having those things in place made gun purchases illegal. It seems to me the only distinction between a legal and illegal gun purchase now is if I insist on purchasing a gun from a licensed gun dealer but I do not get a background check. However that does not seem to be a case of me breaking the law, that seems to be a case of the licensed dealer breaking the law. I am not saying that getting rid of the concealed carry permit removed the distinction entirely But with it gone, I just don't know how the authorities go about making the distinction.

When I've bought a weapon and took it home, or when I go to a gun range, I always have the weapon in the trunk. I've not been stopped for speeding or anything since college days but don't think it's SOP for police to ask unless they felt they had a reason to.

If I was stopped for speeding, per GA law, I don't need to volunteer that I have a weapon on me, trunk, glove compartment etc. But if I had the weapon case visible in the passenger side or holstered to my belt, I would make darn sure my hands were on the steering wheel, volunteer the info anyway (just smart thing to do), and comply with any police request.

The bottom line. You do not need to volunteer any information. But comply with instructions & answer any questions from the police in any situation (regardless if you have a gun in the car) ... without smart mouthing or any sudden movements.


Additional note. When I was in Arkansas for college, it was a normal to see shotguns and hunting rifles in a gun rack in a truck. College buddies and I would have our weapons in the car when we went shooting. We kept the weapons on campus (I believe that was allowed or at least not enforced).

I can't speak to whatever the SOP for the police are supposed to be in those situations. About ten years ago, Panama City Beach police asked me if I had a gun in the car during a traffic stop. I don't know if I had the right to not volunteer the information. I do know that for someone that looks me, not volunteering that information is not right. I said yes and I asked to show my gun permit which I did. I asked out legal center on base if that was legal, they said yes the police are allowed to make sure you are legally allowed to carry the gun.

[Edward64]

I can't speak to whatever the SOP for the police are supposed to be in those situations. About ten years ago, Panama City Beach police asked me if I had a gun in the car during a traffic stop. I don't know if I had the right to not volunteer the information. I do know that for someone that looks me, not volunteering that information is not right.
I make a distinction between volunteering and answering a question.

Yeah, don't know what the FL rules were back then about volunteering. But think you have an obligation to answer the question if posed by a LEO. If you do not answer the question, the LEO has every right to be suspicious.

I said yes and I asked to show my gun permit which I did. I asked out legal center on base if that was legal, they said yes the police are allowed to make sure you are legally allowed to carry the gun.
I think I see your point.

According to below, up to 22% of gun sales or transfers in the 2 year period were done without background check.

PolitiFact | What percentage of gun sales are done without a background check? (https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2018/mar/16/steve-bullock/what-percentage-gun-sales-are-done-without-backgro/)
22 percent overall said they obtained the guns without a background check. But that includes guns that were purchased or received in another way, such as through a gift or an inheritance.

13 percent who purchased firearms -- for example, from a friend or online -- said they had done so without a background check.

So if you were in the 22%, how would a LEO determine if your weapon was legally acquired or not.

Great question, didn't think about that angle. I don't know if they really can easily as there is not a 100% database due to the loopholes.

I think the rebuttal from the NRA is why do LEOs need to determine if your weapons was legally acquired or not if you are not under suspicion (e.g. normal traffic stop would not fall under that category).

If you are under suspicion, I think they would try to trace the chain of ownership which admittedly would be difficult if it went through private sale(s). Start with the serial # and then trace from there.

[Ksyrup]

Hey look, another good guy with a gun!

Kaylin Gillis: A 20-year-old woman was shot and killed in upstate New York after accidentally turning into the wrong driveway, officials say | CNN (https://www.cnn.com/2023/04/18/us/woman-shot-wrong-driveway-upstate-new-york/index.html)

[BYU 14]

When I was traveling, I saw a guy at a Panda Express with what I think was an AR-15 on his back. I just don't get how terrified some people are of the world.

Literally inside a Panda Express strapped with an AR-15?

[HerRealName]

Literally inside a Panda Express strapped with an AR-15?

I left a dog park Saturday because there was a guy walking around with an AR strapped behind him. I'll never understand it.

[BYU 14]

SMH, I can't imagine being so insecure that I had to wear a literal combat rifle in public to show what a badass I am. "Hey look at me, exercising my 2A rights and keeping the poodles safe.

[Galaril]

I make a distinction between volunteering and answering a question.

Yeah, don't know what the FL rules were back then about volunteering. But think you have an obligation to answer the question if posed by a LEO. If you do not answer the question, the LEO has every right to be suspicious.


I think I see your point.

According to below, up to 22% of gun sales or transfers in the 2 year period were done without background check.

PolitiFact | What percentage of gun sales are done without a background check? (https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2018/mar/16/steve-bullock/what-percentage-gun-sales-are-done-without-backgro/)


So if you were in the 22%, how would a LEO determine if your weapon was legally acquired or not.

Great question, didn't think about that angle. I don't know if they really can easily as there is not a 100% database due to the loopholes.

I think the rebuttal from the NRA is why do LEOs need to determine if your weapons was legally acquired or not if you are not under suspicion (e.g. normal traffic stop would not fall under that category).

If you are under suspicion, I think they would try to trace the chain of ownership which admittedly would be difficult if it went through private sale(s). Start with the serial # and then trace from there.

So 22% of Guns sales is approximately 4.6 million guns per year. Yikes.

[bryce]

Hey look, another good guy with a gun!

Kaylin Gillis: A 20-year-old woman was shot and killed in upstate New York after accidentally turning into the wrong driveway, officials say | CNN (https://www.cnn.com/2023/04/18/us/woman-shot-wrong-driveway-upstate-new-york/index.html)

very similar to this story:

White Kansas City man, 84, charged for shooting Black teen who went to wrong house | Reuters (https://www.reuters.com/world/us/missouri-teen-shot-by-homeowner-after-going-wrong-house-2023-04-17/)

[Edward64]

So 22% of Guns sales is approximately 4.6 million guns per year. Yikes.

Per the article, I believe it was family/friend transfer + gun sales = 22%.

If just gun sales, it was 13%. So from a Forbes article ...

Americans bought about 19.9 million firearms last year (2021), down 12.5% from 2020, according to one industry estimate — but 2021 was still the industry’s second-busiest year on record, as politics and public health continue to drive interest in owning guns.

Approx 19.9M x 13% = 2.6M gun sales occurred in 2021 without a background check

Obviously, still a very significant number.

[miami_fan]

[QUOTE=Edward64;3398930
So if you were in the 22%, how would a LEO determine if your weapon was legally acquired or not.

Great question, didn't think about that angle. I don't know if they really can easily as there is not a 100% database due to the loopholes.

I think the rebuttal from the NRA is why do LEOs need to determine if your weapons was legally acquired or not if you are not under suspicion (e.g. normal traffic stop would not fall under that category).

If you are under suspicion, I think they would try to trace the chain of ownership which admittedly would be difficult if it went through private sale(s). Start with the serial # and then trace from there.[/QUOTE]

If we take away the means to determine if weapons are legally acquired or not, it makes no difference if you are under suspicion or not. If there is no way to determine if it was legally acquired or not, there is no distinction between legal or illegal gun purchase as far as I can tell.

If we have decided that we either can not make that determination without infringing on the 2nd amendment or we no longer have any interest in making that determination for whatever reason, it is what it is. I just don't see a legitimate reason to attempt to make the distinction at this point.

[Edward64]

If we take away the means to determine if weapons are legally acquired or not, it makes no difference if you are under suspicion or not. If there is no way to determine if it was legally acquired or not, there is no distinction between legal or illegal gun purchase as far as I can tell.
I don't agree with your premise. The means to determine if a weapon are legally acquired or not still exists, it has not been removed/taken away.

Using Politifact metrics, for at least 78-87% it is relatively easy as the background check exist. For the other 13-22%, it is more difficult. It is not instantaneous (e.g. cop calling it in after a car was stopped) but it can still be done for some of the 13-22%.

If we have decided that we either can not make that determination without infringing on the 2nd amendment or we no longer have any interest in making that determination for whatever reason, it is what it is. I just don't see a legitimate reason to attempt to make the distinction at this point.
I assume you are referring the NRA as believing background checks infringe on the 2nd amendment? (can't think of anyone else that may believe background checks infringes)

I'm not a card carrying NRA and don't bother studying their materials. But from what I remember, the NRA supports background check but does not support expanded background checks. So they are happy with status quo (e.g. gun show and family/friend transfer) and the 13-22% that gets to buy/sell/transfer weapons without a background check.

[RainMaker]

Literally inside a Panda Express strapped with an AR-15?


Yeah, just waiting in line. It was on my way out East in Ohio. Think Youngstown or something like that. Was awhile ago and I think a lot of chains now have no guns allowed signs out front.

[RainMaker]

Hey look, another good guy with a gun!

Kaylin Gillis: A 20-year-old woman was shot and killed in upstate New York after accidentally turning into the wrong driveway, officials say | CNN (https://www.cnn.com/2023/04/18/us/woman-shot-wrong-driveway-upstate-new-york/index.html)
Feels like we're going to have a rough time as a generation of folks who grew up huffing lead paint are armed to the teeth and being told to be terrified of everything.

[CrimsonFox]

When I was traveling, I saw a guy at a Panda Express with what I think was an AR-15 on his back. I just don't get how terrified some people are of the world.

So you stopped in for some General Tso's Clickin'?

[HerRealName]

Scary cheerleaders require deadly force.

https://abc13.com/woodlands-elite-cheerleaders-shot-shooting-at-heb-in-elgin-texas-payton-washington-pedro-tello-rodriguez-jr-arrested/13150502/

[Lathum]

Was there ever a doubt this would be the result of these disastrous laws? Or lack of laws.

[GrantDawg]

Got to protect the real victims of gun violence...
<samp class="EmbedCode-container"><code class="EmbedCode-code"><blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Following a deadly school shooting last month, Republican lawmakers in Tennessee on Tuesday approved a proposal to give gun and ammunition dealers, manufacturers and sellers more protection against lawsuits. <a href="https://t.co/j5NZsqqd3N">https://t.co/j5NZsqqd3N</a></p>&mdash; The Associated Press (@AP) <a href="https://twitter.com/AP/status/1648657913278283781?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">April 19, 2023</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script> </code></samp>

[Galaril]

Per the article, I believe it was family/friend transfer + gun sales = 22%.

If just gun sales, it was 13%. So from a Forbes article ...



Approx 19.9M x 13% = 2.6M gun sales occurred in 2021 without a background check

Obviously, still a very significant number.

Whether actual money sale or family/ friend transfer to me still is the same. IMHO. YMMV.

[stevew]

So you stopped in for some General Tso's Clickin'?

They don’t offer that dish.

[Lathum]

Guys!

I pulled in to my driveway today and a guy got out of his truck that was parked in front of my house. He wanted to give me a card for his power washing business and I didn't shoot him!! Go me!!

[Kodos]

I hope you at least stood your ground.

[Radii]

I pulled in to my driveway today and a guy got out of his truck that was parked in front of my house. He wanted to give me a card for his power washing business and I didn't shoot him!! Go me!!

While I am amazed at your restraint, this person could have posed a threat to your life and I cannot imagine being so foolish as to not meet them with lethal force the moment they take a step towards me.

[Ksyrup]

Shoot first, sign up for lawn care later, I always say.

[Lathum]

oh. I forgot to mention he was dark skinned in my town that is 92.6% white. We dont really have "those people" here.

[Thomkal]

Guys!

I pulled in to my driveway today and a guy got out of his truck that was parked in front of my house. He wanted to give me a card for his power washing business and I didn't shoot him!! Go me!!


what a role model you are Lathum!

[CrimsonFox]

oh. I forgot to mention he was dark skinned in my town that is 92.6% white. We dont really have "those people" here.

what? lawncare people? They are everywhere! Hate those fuckers. Especially those guys that go up to houses and say "That tree in your back yard is dead. Let us cut it down for you!"

[CrimsonFox]

I hope you at least stood your ground.

Oh man. STOOD your ground. I keep getting it wrong. I SHOOT my ground.

[Edward64]

It was Covid when lawncare & other folks would ring/knock and step back from the door, like down my 2 steps. In retrospect, this is probably the safest thing to do nowadays.

[CrimsonFox]

Um....just what IS power washing? Is that like taking really intsense showers?

[Kodos]

oh. I forgot to mention he was dark skinned in my town that is 92.6% white. We dont really have "those people" here.

Ping: Scott Adams

[NobodyHere]

So why aren't we giving guns to teenagers?

https://apnews.com/article/dadeville-alabama-shooting-party-137935e7cbc5b2470571eaee7febb161

Or maybe there's a couple of teens who shouldn't have guns.

2 teens face murder charges for the Sweet 16 party massacre that left 4 dead and 32 injured, Alabama police say (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/2-teens-face-murder-charges-for-the-sweet-16-party-massacre-that-left-4-dead-and-32-injured-alabama-police-say/ar-AA1a2tdX?ocid=hpmsn&cvid=7a512cc3902f418ca84de25031a3ef2b&ei=19)

[RainMaker]

Well armed militia protecting us from high school cheerleaders.


https://abc13.com/woodlands-elite-cheerleaders-shot-shooting-at-heb-in-elgin-texas-payton-washington-pedro-tello-rodriguez-jr-arrested/13150502/

[sterlingice]

"Well-regulated", right?


SI

[miami_fan]

I don't agree with your premise. The means to determine if a weapon are legally acquired or not still exists, it has not been removed/taken away.


If you are speaking about weapons purchased from Federal Firearms dealers or someone else who is willing to put in the extra effort, it does exist for the most part as long as:

A) Your background check comes back with an immediate Yes or a Yes is given within the three day window. If it does not come back with a No after that three day period, the dealer still has the option to sell it to you. The FBI has 90 days including that three day waiting period to continue to investigate your background. After 90 days, if they have not decided Yes or No, they delete the background check. Actually they delete the background after 88 days to ensure that it is deleted by the 90 day mark.

Funny sidenote- If the FBI figures out after the three day waiting period but before the 88 day mark that you should not be allowed to purchase a weapon, they contact the dealer to see if they sold you the gun. The dealer does not have to tell them if they did or not but if the dealer says that they did sell you the weapon, the FBI is supposed to send the ATF to go pick up the weapons.

Using Politifact metrics, for at least 78-87% it is relatively easy as the background check exist. For the other 13-22%, it is more difficult. It is not instantaneous (e.g. cop calling it in after a car was stopped) but it can still be done for some of the 13-22%.

Yeah about this study.

Just a moment... (https://www.acpjournals.org/doi/10.7326/M16-1590)

It is sort of a devils in the details situation for me. Yes, 22% of all gun owners who reported obtaining their most recent firearm within the previous 2 years (2013-2015) reported doing so without a background check. Yes, among gun owners who acquired their most recent firearm within the same time frame by way of purchase, 13% did so without getting a background check. However, digging a bit deeper, 80% of the purchases were made in a store from what I assume is a Federal Firearms dealer. Those purchases contributed only 4% of the purchases made without background checks. In the other categories (Family, Friend/Acquaintance, Online and Other) the gun owners were able to make at least 45% of those purchases without a background check. Gun owners who purchased their most recent gun from a friend or an acquaintance within that time frame, 77% did so without a background check. For those purchasing online, 45% did not have a background check. If they were gifted a weapon, 57% got them without a background check. Overall, across all periods, 42% acquired their most recent firearm without a background check.

I don't know what the breakdown is of where gun purchases are happening in 2023. But if the trend is like other consumer items we are making less purchases in store or from traditional store websites etc. and more through other means. The data suggests that those other means are less likely to provide us with the means to determine if weapons are legally acquired or not. Again, if that is important to us. If people are asking why do LEOs need to determine if their weapons was legally acquired or not if they are not under suspicion as you suggested and take steps to make the determination almost impossible, it may not be that important at all.

[molson]

Police don't and probably can't check whether a gun was legally acquired, they check whether a person isn't allowed to have a gun through a regular check that can be done at traffic stops or when someone is detained for something else - are they a felon, are they on probation, do they have a no-contact order. I see those kinds of charges all the time, even in Idaho. But without that, the default assumption is that it's legal

[CrimsonFox]

Or maybe there's a couple of teens who shouldn't have guns.

2 teens face murder charges for the Sweet 16 party massacre that left 4 dead and 32 injured, Alabama police say (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/2-teens-face-murder-charges-for-the-sweet-16-party-massacre-that-left-4-dead-and-32-injured-alabama-police-say/ar-AA1a2tdX?ocid=hpmsn&cvid=7a512cc3902f418ca84de25031a3ef2b&ei=19)

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/5/5b/Left4Dead_Windows_cover.jpg

[RainMaker]

jfc

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">“The attacker scooped up the blood of his victims and smeared it into a disgusting message. What he wrote … was the phrase ‘LOL.’”<br><br>— Texas State Rep. Joe Moody (D) shared a new detail about the Uvalde school shooting during an emotional hearing with victims’ families Tuesday <a href="https://t.co/3J9g5oKZFK">pic.twitter.com/3J9g5oKZFK</a></p>&mdash; The Recount (@therecount) <a href="https://twitter.com/therecount/status/1648741950277959680?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">April 19, 2023</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[GrantDawg]

It was Covid when lawncare & other folks would ring/knock and step back from the door, like down my 2 steps. In retrospect, this is probably the safest thing to do nowadays.
I knock on peoples doors every day, and I always do this. I did this well before Covid. It is just smart not to try to look menacing when you are at someones door.

[Lathum]

Little girl, parents shot after basketball rolls into gunman's yard in Gastonia; suspect sought: police (https://www.qcnews.com/news/u-s/north-carolina/gaston-county/police-search-for-suspect-after-gastonia-double-shooting/)

[Lathum]

Maine killings: Man recently released from prison confessed to quadruple murder of parents and friends, state police say | CNN (https://www.cnn.com/2023/04/19/us/maine-shooting-bowdoin-yarmouth-wednesday/index.html?utm_medium=social&utm_source=twCNN&utm_content=2023-04-19T23%3A45%3A05&utm_term=link)

[RainMaker]

Little girl, parents shot after basketball rolls into gunman's yard in Gastonia; suspect sought: police (https://www.qcnews.com/news/u-s/north-carolina/gaston-county/police-search-for-suspect-after-gastonia-double-shooting/)


Why don't kids want to play outside anymore?

[JonInMiddleGA]

Little girl, parents shot after basketball rolls into gunman's yard in Gastonia; suspect sought: police (https://www.qcnews.com/news/u-s/north-carolina/gaston-county/police-search-for-suspect-after-gastonia-double-shooting/)

Worth noting that this fella was free on bond after allegedly taking a "mini sledgehammer" (?) to his then-girlfriend (https://www.wcnc.com/article/news/crime/sledgehammer-attack-gastonia-police-crime-attack-kidnapping-assault/275-c40ce292-298f-40da-bb07-06e17189eaf7). He reportedly wouldn't allow her to leave for several hours until after she'd cleaned up the mess from the attack.

Not that he might be prone to random acts of violence or anything.

[Ghost Econ]

Should have claimed self defense, then all charges would be dropped.

Columbus police explain why charges dropped against Krieg Butler | 10tv.com (https://www.10tv.com/article/news/local/police-statement-fatal-shooting-sinzae-reed-kreig-butler/530-814ed3e7-8055-4222-9d8e-753527b37337)

The story is, black kid was playing in his yard. White dude drove over and opened fire. They arrested him for murder but dropped the charges because he claimed self-defense. 3 months later and still nothing.

[GrantDawg]

Should have claimed self defense, then all charges would be dropped.

Columbus police explain why charges dropped against Krieg Butler | 10tv.com (https://www.10tv.com/article/news/local/police-statement-fatal-shooting-sinzae-reed-kreig-butler/530-814ed3e7-8055-4222-9d8e-753527b37337)

The story is, black kid was playing in his yard. White dude drove over and opened fire. They arrested him for murder but dropped the charges because he claimed self-defense. 3 months later and still nothing.
That one of those little things they slipped into these gun laws. They are making it hard to charge people with gun crimes as long as they use a few magic words.

[Ghost Econ]

That one of those little things they slipped into these gun laws. They are making it hard to charge people with gun crimes as long as they use a few magic words.

"Self-defence" is just a safer way of saying, "he's black"

[GrantDawg]

"Self-defence" is just a safer way of saying, "he's black"
That is absolutely the foal, but if they put it like that in the law, it would it never stand Constitutional scrutiny. Though who knows with this SC. They may go back to the 3/5th's doctrine at any time.

[RainMaker]

Probably didn't need the mugshot as we all know what he looked like from the headline. They also went light on charges, we can all guess why.
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[Atocep]

Probably didn't need the mugshot as we all know what he looked like from the headline. They also went light on charges, we can all guess why.

I sleep better knowing our well regulated militia are out there keeping us safe.

[CrimsonFox]

I guess he thought it was the gay bar and wanted his meat now

[Edward64]

New gun ownership is increasing. And it's just not "Bubba". Demographics are changing.

There's some other stats in the article but they weren't specific to new gun owners.

US gun sales rise amid spate of mass shootings | CNN (https://www.cnn.com/2023/04/22/us/united-states-rising-gun-sales/index.html)
“Sometime between 2016 and 2019, the new gun owners were more likely to be female and Black than prior to that
:
The Northeastern and Harvard study found that nearly 3% of US adults, or 7.5 million people, bought guns for the first time from January 2019 to April 2021. About half of the new gun owners were female, 20% were Black, and 20% were Hispanic. Overall, gun owners were 63% male and 73% White.
“The face of gun ownership is changing somewhat and the people who are becoming new gun owners today are less likely to be male and more likely to be non-White, more likely to be somewhat younger than existing and long-standing gun owners,” Miller said.
“A rather large slice of our current clientele is female. We sponsor a shooting group for women… Right now there is no clear (line) – Republican or Democrat or Independent – buying guns.”

[stevew]

I know how 93% of men with Goatees vote.

[JonInMiddleGA]

New gun ownership is increasing. And it's just not "Bubba". Demographics are changing.

Yeah, that fits what I see/hear/perceive.

I probably know as many women who carry a handgun* daily as I do men tbh.
Now long barrels, that still feels heavily skewed male to me.

(*now lemme be clear: I'm saying carry not own )

[Sweed]

New gun ownership is increasing. And it's just not "Bubba". Demographics are changing.

There's some other stats in the article but they weren't specific to new gun owners.

US gun sales rise amid spate of mass shootings | CNN (https://www.cnn.com/2023/04/22/us/united-states-rising-gun-sales/index.html)

The NRA and gun manufacturers getting their wish? You make the country a wide open wild west and folks that, previously, would never buy or carry now feel a need?

[JPhillips]

And hasn't that always been the goal for gun manufacturers? Guns last a long time, so they don't often need replacing, but most Americans don't own guns, so...

[Edward64]

You make the country a wide open wild west and folks that, previously, would never buy or carry now feel a need?

Probably.

My guess the #1 answer to why is protection.

[flere-imsaho]

You are correct, Edward: Key facts about Americans and guns (https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2021/09/13/key-facts-about-americans-and-guns/#:~:text=Personal%20protection%20tops%20the%20list,in%20an%20open%2Dended%20question).

Lots of other interesting tidbits in there.

[RainMaker]

Seems bad that you can just legally open fire on a delivery driver for pulling in the wrong driveway, but maybe this homeowner fit a certain demographic.


Florida couple delivering Instacart groceries shot at after driving to wrong address | WFLA (https://www.wfla.com/news/florida/florida-couple-delivering-instacart-groceries-shot-at-after-driving-to-wrong-address/)

[Atocep]

Seems bad that you can just legally open fire on a delivery driver for pulling in the wrong driveway, but maybe this homeowner fit a certain demographic.


Florida couple delivering Instacart groceries shot at after driving to wrong address | WFLA (https://www.wfla.com/news/florida/florida-couple-delivering-instacart-groceries-shot-at-after-driving-to-wrong-address/)

So in this situation if the instacart driver had pulled a gun, fired back, and killed the homeowner. Are they protected by self defense? How does that work with castle doctrine and stand your ground laws? Is it just an endless logic circle?

[miami_fan]

So in this situation if the instacart driver had pulled a gun, fired back, and killed the homeowner. Are they protected by self defense? How does that work with castle doctrine and stand your ground laws? Is it just an endless logic circle?

We will probably find out sooner rather than later.

[RainMaker]

I delivered pizzas in high school and am glad it was a different time back then. Way too many nuts out there.

[CrimsonFox]

Texas massacre manhunt: 200 officers are searching for suspect accused of killing his neighbors. Authorities are offering $80,000 for information | CNN (https://www.cnn.com/2023/04/30/us/cleveland-texas-shooting-sunday/index.html)

[CrimsonFox]

Another yadayadayada (https://abcnews.go.com/US/2-teens-killed-4-hurt-mississippi-house-party/story?id=98967001)

[Lathum]

Texas massacre manhunt: 200 officers are searching for suspect accused of killing his neighbors. Authorities are offering $80,000 for information | CNN (https://www.cnn.com/2023/04/30/us/cleveland-texas-shooting-sunday/index.html)

This dude is in Mexico. They aren't finding him

[RainMaker]

Surprised this piece of shit didn't offer a pardon. An 8-year old died and 2 mothers died shielding their kids. He describes the victims as illegal immigrants instead.



<samp class="EmbedCode-container"><code class="EmbedCode-code"><blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">I’ve announced a $50K reward for info on the criminal who killed 5 illegal immigrants Friday. Also directed <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/OperationLoneStar?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#OperationLoneStar</a> to be on the lookout.<br><br>I continue working with state &amp; local officials to ensure all available resources are deployed to respond. <a href="https://t.co/SpkUgKqKGe">pic.twitter.com/SpkUgKqKGe</a></p>&mdash; Greg Abbott (@GregAbbott_TX) <a href="https://twitter.com/GregAbbott_TX/status/1652783731290013696?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">April 30, 2023</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script> </code></samp>

[Lathum]

Jesus Christ. The lack of humanity...

[CrimsonFox]

This dude is in Mexico. They aren't finding him

If only they hadn't run into the wall while chasing him they would have caught him.

[RainMaker]

A&M-Texarkana baseball player hit in chest by stray bullet during game, police say (https://www.texarkanagazette.com/news/2023/apr/29/am-texarkana-player-hit-in-chest-by-stray-bullet-during-game-police-say/)

[CrimsonFox]

A&M-Texarkana baseball player hit in chest by stray bullet during game, police say (https://www.texarkanagazette.com/news/2023/apr/29/am-texarkana-player-hit-in-chest-by-stray-bullet-during-game-police-say/)

https://media.tenor.com/3qErfSDAKhYAAAAC/confused-jackie-chan.gif

[cuervo72]

Texas apparently needs better leash laws.

[NobodyHere]

A&M-Texarkana baseball player hit in chest by stray bullet during game, police say (https://www.texarkanagazette.com/news/2023/apr/29/am-texarkana-player-hit-in-chest-by-stray-bullet-during-game-police-say/)

We need to spay an neuter bullets so we don't have a bunch of strays flying around.

[Edward64]

We need to spay an neuter bullets so we don't have a bunch of strays flying around.

I'm trying to understand this ... but failing.

[henry296]

I'm trying to understand this ... but failing.

spay and neuter prevents stray animals.

[albionmoonlight]

For the GOP, "illegal" means "not white"

[Lathum]

koordannklepper - Google Search (https://www.google.com/search?q=koordannklepper&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en-us&client=safari#fpstate=ive&vld=cid:3e23c3ed,vid:-Q7nwxivOUo)

[Atocep]

Texas apparently needs better leash laws.

Where was the good guy with a stray bullet?

[RainMaker]

This reminds me of the NextDoor app during Halloween. Bunch of weirdos threatening to point guns at trick or treaters if they ring their bell.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Just posted by a meteorologist, a gun nut, who covers our area. This is scary. <a href="https://t.co/FpzqUfb7ZU">pic.twitter.com/FpzqUfb7ZU</a></p>&mdash; TisStef (@TisStef) <a href="https://twitter.com/TisStef/status/1653039227079098369?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">May 1, 2023</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[stevew]

They supposedly have the neighbor killer guy in custody.

[RainMaker]

For the GOP, "illegal" means "not white"

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Jesse Watters: &quot;Now, I saw on the way in to work an illegal immigration family digging through the trash looking for recyclables.&quot;<br><br>Jessica Tarlov: &quot;How did you know they were illegal?&quot;<br><br>Watters: &quot;You can tell.&quot; <a href="https://t.co/PyQxdrScgc">pic.twitter.com/PyQxdrScgc</a></p>&mdash; Justin Baragona (@justinbaragona) <a href="https://twitter.com/justinbaragona/status/1653511496796717057?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">May 2, 2023</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[CrimsonFox]

They supposedly have the neighbor killer guy in custody.

Access Denied (https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/texas-shooting-suspect-captured-after-manhunt-rcna82214)

Killer in custody; sheriff takes break from trick or treating as a cowboy to announce this

[Galaril]

Probably.

My guess the #1 answer to why is protection.

From what? Other people with guns?

[sterlingice]

Jesse Watters: "Now, I saw on the way in to work an illegal immigration family digging through the trash looking for recyclables."

Jessica Tarlov: "How did you know they were illegal?"

Watters: "You can tell." pic.twitter.com/PyQxdrScgc (https://t.co/PyQxdrScgc)
— Justin Baragona (@justinbaragona) May 2, 2023 (https://twitter.com/justinbaragona/status/1653511496796717057?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw) <script async="" src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>


Someone's clearly gunning for Tucker's old spot


SI

[Edward64]

From what? Other people with guns?

If it's other law abiding people with guns, no.

From criminal elements, yes.

From criminal elements with guns, yes.


EDIT: from Cocaine Bears, definitely yes.

[Lathum]

Or, you know, we could just make it harder, not easier, to get guns. I mean, things are going so well in Texas.

[CrimsonFox]

Someone's clearly gunning for Tucker's old spot


SI

that's what heathers do

[Thomkal]

This reminds me of the NextDoor app during Halloween. Bunch of weirdos threatening to point guns at trick or treaters if they ring their bell.

<iframe id="twitter-widget-0" scrolling="no" allowtransparency="true" allowfullscreen="true" class="" style="position: static; visibility: visible; width: 524px; height: 751px; display: block; flex-grow: 1;" title="Twitter Tweet" src="https://platform.twitter.com/embed/Tweet.html?dnt=false&embedId=twitter-widget-0&features=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%3D%3D&frame=false&hideCard=false&hideThread=false&id=1653039227079098369&lang=en&origin=https%3A%2F%2Fforums.operationsports.com%2Ffofc%2Fnewreply.php%3Fdo%3Dnewreply%26p%3D3400358&sessionId=5862c225067bd385e4293449fddfa5ea4019783a&theme=light&widgetsVersion=aaf4084522e3a%3A1674595607486&width=550px" data-tweet-id="1653039227079098369" frameborder="0"></iframe>
<script async="" src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>


He lost his membership in the National Weather Association and I hope his job:


https://twitter.com/nwas/status/1653785408717697026

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[RainMaker]

I'd say an order of protection around local elementary schools might not be bad either.

[Edward64]

US contagion spreading to Serbia. Mass killings on consecutive days.

Dubona: At least eight dead as Serbia rocked by second mass shooting in two days | CNN (https://www.cnn.com/2023/05/04/europe/serbia-shooting-dubona-intl/index.html)
At least eight people have been killed and 13 wounded in a shooting in the Serbian village of Dubona, the country’s Interior Ministry spokesperson told CNN.

The shooter remains at large, and a warrant has been issued for a 21-year-old male suspect. The police have cordoned off the area where they suspected him to be hiding, according CNN affiliate channel N1.
This comes a day after the Balkan country was rocked by news of a 13-year-old boy opening fire on classmates at a school in the capital Belgrade. That shooting left at least eight children dead, along with a security guard.

[Galaril]

If it's other law abiding people with guns, no.

From criminal elements, yes.

From criminal elements with guns, yes.


EDIT: from Cocaine Bears, definitely yes.

Gottcha.

[QuikSand]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">“We will pretty much take the firearms away from the citizens.”<br><br>— Serbian President Aleksandar Vučić, via translator, announces new gun control measures following the country’s second mass shooting in 48 hours <a href="https://t.co/H5hdcMgvJ3">pic.twitter.com/H5hdcMgvJ3</a></p>&mdash; The Recount (@therecount) <a href="https://twitter.com/therecount/status/1654479364665245700?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">May 5, 2023</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

This is likely to become a bad turn for US gun politics... of the "see, this is what they really want" variety.

[Lathum]

I’m sure there will be a lot of false flag but jobs.

[flere-imsaho]

So, pretty much not like the United States, then.

[HerRealName]

Active shooting situation with multiple victims at the Allen Outlet Mall in Allen, TX. We were there yesterday. Can't wait until we can leave this fucking hellhole of a state.

[RainMaker]

There are some graphic videos floating around social media. Dead kids. People should see them.

[RainMaker]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">I'm EMBARRASSED: Texas #2 in nation for new gun purchases, behind CALIFORNIA. Let's pick up the pace Texans. <a href="https://twitter.com/NRA?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@NRA</a> <a href="https://t.co/Ry2GInbS1g">https://t.co/Ry2GInbS1g</a></p>&mdash; Greg Abbott (@GregAbbott_TX) <a href="https://twitter.com/GregAbbott_TX/status/659427797853536256?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">October 28, 2015</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[Lathum]

There are some graphic videos floating around social media. Dead kids. People should see them.

I saw a still. Looked like a bunch of dead people, kids included, who were maybe hiding. Horrible.

[Ksyrup]

Active shooting situation with multiple victims at the Allen Outlet Mall in Allen, TX. We were there yesterday. Can't wait until we can leave this fucking hellhole of a state.

When we visit my parents in Richardson, we would always go there. This sucks.

[Atocep]

Active shooting situation with multiple victims at the Allen Outlet Mall in Allen, TX. We were there yesterday. Can't wait until we can leave this fucking hellhole of a state.

My wife worked there in high school. Crazy.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Active shooting situation with multiple victims at the Allen Outlet Mall in Allen, TX. We were there yesterday. Can't wait until we can leave this fucking hellhole of a state.

Representative Keith Self, who represents Allen, Texas, said on CNN that critics who are calling for more than “thoughts and prayers” after Saturday’s shooting “don’t believe in almighty God, who is absolutely in control of our lives” and instead said the country’s lack of “mental health institutions” is to blame.

“Really I would like to stay away from the politics today because I want to focus on the victims, today we should be focused on the families,” he said. “Prayers are important and they are important in the families that are devastated right now.”

[Atocep]

Representative Keith Self, who represents Allen, Texas, said on CNN that critics who are calling for more than “thoughts and prayers” after Saturday’s shooting “don’t believe in almighty God, who is absolutely in control of our lives” and instead said the country’s lack of “mental health institutions” is to blame.

“Really I would like to stay away from the politics today because I want to focus on the victims, today we should be focused on the families,” he said. “Prayers are important and they are important in the families that are devastated right now.”


The right's thing after recent shootings has been to complain about mental health issues in the country while simultaneously doing nothing about it because they know it's more than that.

[cuervo72]

So am I right that his take then is pretty much "God is ok with these shootings"?

[flere-imsaho]

We're talking about a GOP rep from Texas - if anything, he should be in a mental institution.

[Atocep]

So am I right that his take then is pretty much "God is ok with these shootings"?

Yep, because it's god's will and they're going to better place.

It's becoming like the creepy people that pray for the rapture because they believe the afterlife is better than life here.

[Atocep]

We're talking about a GOP rep from Texas - if anything, he should be in a mental institution.

As I said, my wife worked at this mall in HS and her family still lives not far from it. They're also the stereotypical gun loving, fox news watching right wingers.

When my wife told me of the shooting I told her, lets see how they blame the darkies for this and lets see how long it takes for someone to blame mental health without mentioning guns. That was less than an hour before the post above where their rep mentioned mental health. Right before that her mom called and said they heard from people around there that it was a black guy that got out of his vehicle and yell "kill all the white people". That means her step dad read it on facebook, of course, but they're not going to admit that.

[albionmoonlight]

If the GOP were serious about funding mental health, I’d support that 100%. I just don’t think that they are serious.

[Kodos]

It’s just another way to not blame the guns.

[BYU 14]

If the GOP were serious about funding mental health, I’d support that 100%. I just don’t think that they are serious.

They could give two shits about it, because they would have to add it to background checks, then extend background checks to enforce it.

[Lathum]

I had a tweet about the latest mass shooting that was replied to by Brian Krassenstein and his 700K followers and holy shit, the level of crazy is insanity.

[NobodyHere]

Who's Brian Krassenstein?

[Lathum]

Who's Brian Krassenstein?

Who knows, some twitter political guy.

[NobodyHere]

Who knows, some twitter political guy.

He does have a Wikipedia page so he must be important.

[albionmoonlight]

It is crazy to remember how long Columbine was in the news.

[cuervo72]

As I said, my wife worked at this mall in HS and her family still lives not far from it. They're also the stereotypical gun loving, fox news watching right wingers.

When my wife told me of the shooting I told her, lets see how they blame the darkies for this and lets see how long it takes for someone to blame mental health without mentioning guns. That was less than an hour before the post above where their rep mentioned mental health. Right before that her mom called and said they heard from people around there that it was a black guy that got out of his vehicle and yell "kill all the white people". That means her step dad read it on facebook, of course, but they're not going to admit that.

Not that they'll ever believe this, but: https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2023/05/07/texas-allen-outlets-shooting-dallas/

Authorities have not released a motive, but a patch on his chest said “RWDS,” an acronym that stands for Right Wing Death Squad, according to people familiar with the investigation. The phrase is popular among right wing extremists, neo-Nazis and white supremacists, they said.

[Ghost Econ]

I've already been told he's an illegal gang member with gang tattoos and is part of a cartel and we need to close the border

[GrantDawg]

Rorschach mass shooter

Sent from my SM-S916U using Tapatalk

[RainMaker]

Sounds like a neo-nazi and an incel. Not terribly surprising. Guess the patch he wore was popular among the Proud Boys. Maybe their conviction for sedition was his breaking point.


Allen, TX Mass Shooter Posted Neo-Nazi Content, FBI Document Reveals – Rolling Stone (https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/allen-texas-mass-shooter-motivated-by-white-supremacist-beliefs-feds-1234731085/)

[Ksyrup]

My MIL and FIL were over for dinner (her birthday). He's probably an illegal, she says. Story comes on about the SUV who ran over 7 people in Brownsville. They should ban SUVs then, she says.

I just acted like I didn't hear anything.

[Thomkal]

oof Ksyrup

[Lathum]

better man then I am. My MIL and I have had it out a few times to the point of my FIL telling her she needs to knock it off. He was a Trump supporter until the insurrection and see how he defense of him has ruined relationships.

[Ghost Econ]

My MIL and FIL were over for dinner (her birthday). He's probably an illegal, she says. Story comes on about the SUV who ran over 7 people in Brownsville. They should ban SUVs then, she says.

I just acted like I didn't hear anything.

The amount of times I have to hold my tongue around my in-laws... mainly because I'm only around them if my daughter is. There's a reason their son moved literally as far away as possible while still being in the contiguous US.

[GrantDawg]

I was hanging out with an old friend yesterday. His family lives down here while he and his wife live in Maryland. She refuses to come down to see them and deal with thier crazy politics. He says the worst is his sister. His lesbian ER doc sister is by far the most extreme. He says his wife just can't fathom the jump in logic she takes to defend people who would happily outlaw her existence not mention claim what she went through on the front lines of COVID was all fraud.
My friend that works in National Security told me how bad things got around 2020. He said people would want the TV's in his station on Fox News, and people would get pissed. Yet if they turned it on CNN other people get pissed. He finally made them turn it on BBC News. It was the only compromise that kept the peace.

Sent from my SM-S916U using Tapatalk

[RainMaker]

My MIL and FIL were over for dinner (her birthday). He's probably an illegal, she says. Story comes on about the SUV who ran over 7 people in Brownsville. They should ban SUVs then, she says.

I just acted like I didn't hear anything.


People are really demented. I understand why you'd hold your tongue but also we're at a stage when these people are making up lies to defend a mass murderer.

[CrimsonFox]

oh no i missed a mass shooting. Why didn't someone page me

[NobodyHere]

oh no i missed a mass shooting. Why didn't someone page me

Don't worry, it won't be long before the next one.

[CrimsonFox]

I feel left out.
someone give me the deets and please do so in a performance art dance style

[Ksyrup]

People are really demented. I understand why you'd hold your tongue but also we're at a stage when these people are making up lies to defend a mass murderer.

It's just reciting what they see on Fox News. I've talked about this with my wife - we go over to their house on a Saturday afternoon and they've got Fox on. Who the hell needs to be watching Fox News on a Saturday afternoon? Get a fucking life!

The rote comment about "banning SUVs" as if she's a spokesman for the NRA really gets me, and it's where you can see the damage that's been done. Neither of our sets of parents have ever fired a gun, let alone owned one, in their lives. My BIL is a Florida state trooper but that's as close to a gun as they've ever gotten. There's no logical reason to be doing the NRAs work except Fox News has drilled it into their heads. My parents are the same way. They live about 30 minutes from Allen. They could have been there. I could see my mom blaming and defending based on the Fox taking points even if my dad was laying dead in that mall.

For my own sanity, I just have to let it go. I have... thoughts about the whole thing, but they are probably more appropriate for the mental health thread.

[albionmoonlight]

Who the hell needs to be watching Fox News on a Saturday afternoon? Get a fucking life!


If we, as a culture, committed to giving more meaningful opportunities for engagement and community to the elderly/retired, we'd all be better off.

They'd have more fulfilled and meaningful lives.

And they'd have something to do other than watch TV or browse facebook and get angry/lonely.

[Lathum]

If we, as a culture, committed to giving more meaningful opportunities for engagement and community to the elderly/retired, we'd all be better off.

They'd have more fulfilled and meaningful lives.

And they'd have something to do other than watch TV or browse facebook and get angry/lonely.

So true.

My in laws used to sit around eating junk food and watching Fox news. My MIL had a heart transplant several years earlier. She started having really bad check ups and they decided to get healthier. Both lost significant weight and with their new found health are far more active than they were which results in less FOX News binging. The difference is night and day with them now. They are so much happier.

It really is like a drug. There is something in there, likely the validation that it is ok to hate the people you hate because the TV tells you to, that keeps them coming back and for longer stretches.

[Honolulu_Blue]

So true.

My in laws used to sit around eating junk food and watching Fox news. My MIL had a heart transplant several years earlier. She started having really bad check ups and they decided to get healthier. Both lost significant weight and with their new found health are far more active than they were which results in less FOX News binging. The difference is night and day with them now. They are so much happier.

It really is like a drug. There is something in there, likely the validation that it is ok to hate the people you hate because the TV tells you to, that keeps them coming back and for longer stretches.

Agreed.

My parents have been completely taken over by Fox News, my dad especially. He's always been conservative, but once he retired a while back it started with conservative radio - mainly Rush Limbaugh. He got big into that and then Fox News.

My folks watched so much Fox News that they ruined their OLEG 4K TV because an image of the Fox News banner was permanently burned into the screen. They eventually had to get a new TV and researched one where they wouldn't happen. They watch two things: Fox News & golf.

[Ksyrup]

Yep, Rush was the gateway for my parents.

Since I now have YTTV and can order/hide certain channels, I've given some thought to hiding Fox News and having them come to me asking about it on their TV in the basement. I've already dumped OAN but that's one of those that not every service has. Fox News would be a provocation if I did that.

[Kodos]

Agreed.

My parents have been completely taken over by Fox News, my dad especially. He's always been conservative, but once he retired a while back it started with conservative radio - mainly Rush Limbaugh. He got big into that and then Fox News.

My folks watched so much Fox News that they ruined their OLEG 4K TV because an image of the Fox News banner was permanently burned into the screen. They eventually had to get a new TV and researched one where they wouldn't happen. They watch two things: Fox News & golf.

Wow. Talk about a torturous house to visit…

[Lathum]

Wow. Talk about a tortuous house to visit…

This was my in laws. When we moved back to NJ we were waiting for our Oregon house to sell and buy a house here we stayed with them. For 13 months. It was horrible. Thankfully we had our own living space, but a shared kitchen. When you're exposed to it like that it's amazing how you pick up on all the scare tactics and precise wording they use.

[Edward64]

Since I now have YTTV and can order/hide certain channels, I've given some thought to hiding Fox News and having them come to me asking about it on their TV in the basement. I've already dumped OAN but that's one of those that not every service has. Fox News would be a provocation if I did that.

Congratulations on being the adult in the room :)

Your parents and in-laws would drive me crazy. They won't change. You won't change them. I'd just accept it and minimize any unnecessary contacts with them.

Out of curiosity, what's their take on the Dominion payout?

[Lathum]

dola- the craziest thing about it was my kids were 5 and 8 at the time. The 8 year old actually went up to them one day and told them they don't want to spend time with them because the TV they watch is scary.

[Lathum]

They won't change. You won't change them. I'd just accept it and minimize any unnecessary contacts with them.

Out of curiosity, what's their take on the Dominion payout?

This is what I do, just accept it. We see them often and just don't talk politics. I would NEVER ask about Dominion, especially my MIL. My FIL is a bit more rational and has backed away from Trump because of the election nonsense, although I suspect if it comes down to it he will vote for him again.

[Kodos]

Fox News would be a provocation if I did that.


Hit 'em with the classic: "My house, my rules."

[Ksyrup]

Congratulations on being the adult in the room :)

Your parents and in-laws would drive me crazy. They won't change. You won't change them. I'd just accept it and minimize any unnecessary contacts with them.

Out of curiosity, what's their take on the Dominion payout?

Haven't discussed it. The only reason I got to hear her take on the shootings was because I put NBC nightly news on. I try to steer clear of any politics-related stuff.

Even with my parents in TX, they mentioned the Allen shooting, and before that the Louisville shooting, like it's unbelievable all this is happening without a word about why. Which, in hindsight, is better than my MIL's commentary. But I have a call with them this afternoon so we'll see if it comes up again.

[cuervo72]

You should ask them why border crossings are scary if we already have daily mass shootings. How more dangerous are these folks going to be?

[BYU 14]

None of this is real guys, though I think an Assult Car may be a French sports coupe??

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Assault weapons aren’t real. Just like there’s no such thing as an assult car, or assault pencil. Stop blaming objects when the person is at fault.</p>&mdash; Kevin Sorbo (@ksorbs) <a href="https://twitter.com/ksorbs/status/1655315735214800900?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">May 7, 2023</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[Atocep]

None of this is real guys, though I think an Assult Car may be a French sports coupe??

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Assault weapons aren’t real. Just like there’s no such thing as an assult car, or assault pencil. Stop blaming objects when the person is at fault.</p>&mdash; Kevin Sorbo (@ksorbs) <a href="https://twitter.com/ksorbs/status/1655315735214800900?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">May 7, 2023</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>


I love how they keep going back to vehicles, which are regulated infinitely more than guns, require training, and require licensing with a minimum age limit.

[RainMaker]

I've already been told he's an illegal gang member with gang tattoos and is part of a cartel and we need to close the border

To me this isn't much different than holocaust denial. Just creating your own reality to defend people you share common beliefs with.

Anyway, here are his gang tattoos.

<samp class="EmbedCode-container"><code class="EmbedCode-code"><iframe id="twitter-widget-0" scrolling="no" allowtransparency="true" allowfullscreen="true" class="" style="position: static; visibility: visible; width: 507px; height: 733px; display: block; flex-grow: 1;" title="Twitter Tweet" src="https://platform.twitter.com/embed/Tweet.html?dnt=false&embedId=twitter-widget-0&features=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%3D%3D&frame=false&hideCard=false&hideThread=true&id=1655629160956538896&lang=en&origin=https%3A%2F%2Fforums.operationsports.com%2Ffofc%2Fnewreply.php%3Fdo%3Dpostreply%26t%3D90787&sessionId=fdbab11f994e68c0cf81bf18abe4f57c3a5b8c29&theme=light&widgetsVersion=aaf4084522e3a%3A1674595607486&width=550px" data-tweet-id="1655629160956538896" frameborder="0"></iframe>
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[RainMaker]

If he had survived he would probably have gotten a pardon from Abbott.

[Atocep]

If he had survived he would probably have gotten a pardon from Abbott.

Not with the last name Garcia and parents that don't speak English.

[GrantDawg]

None of this is real guys, though I think an Assult Car may be a French sports coupe?? <script async="" src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
This is another favored tactic by the gun nuts. You can't ban "assault weapons" because you can't define what they are.

I also saw a new one the other day talking about how the .223 is among the smallest calibers and what they are trying to ban is "least lethal" caliber. It was among the highest level of ignorance I ever saw of a gun nut, and that is saying something.


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[Lathum]

The gun nuts have no real argument so it is all deflection and trying to invalidate the other side on semantics.

[Ghost Econ]

I mean, if someone designed a car for the sole purpose of killing people, it would be illegal, they'd very likely be arrested and the car confiscated/destroyed.

If someone created a pencil in such a way that it's only purpose was to kill someone, it would be illegal, they'd very likely be arrested, and the pencil would be confiscated/destroyed.

The isn't rocket science. If we get rid of specific types of guns that don't need to exist in civil society, of course it will be harder for good guys to get them... but it makes it even harder for bad guys to get them. We don't let good guys buy RPGs... and guess what, we don't have bad guys launching RPGs at malls and schools.

[GrantDawg]

I mean, if someone designed a car for the sole purpose of killing people, it would be illegal, they'd very likely be arrested and the car confiscated/destroyed.

If someone created a pencil in such a way that it's only purpose was to kill someone, it would be illegal, they'd very likely be arrested, and the pencil would be confiscated/destroyed.

The isn't rocket science. If we get rid of specific types of guns that don't need to exist in civil society, of course it will be harder for good guys to get them... but it makes it even harder for bad guys to get them. We don't let good guys buy RPGs... and guess what, we don't have bad guys launching RPGs at malls and schools.
The problem is true gun nuts think they should be allowed to have RPG's.

[NobodyHere]

This is another favored tactic by the gun nuts. You can't ban "assault weapons" because you can't define what they are.


I agree with the "gun nuts" on this one. Laws should be explicit and open to as little interpretation as possible. People should know where the line between legal and illegal is.

And "Assault Weapon" is a vague term. If you want to ban that "style" of weapon then talk about banning pistol grips and limiting the size of the magazine.

[NobodyHere]

To me this isn't much different than holocaust denial. Just creating your own reality to defend people you share common beliefs with.

Anyway, here are his gang tattoos.

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You'd think with a name like "Mauricio Garcia" you wouldn't be welcomed in many neo-nazi circles. I wonder how he became enamored with that garbage.

[Ksyrup]

That's what led to my MIL's comment yesterday about him probably being illegal. I heard the name and then they described him as a white supremacist and I half-jokingly said "He must have found the most welcoming white supremacist group in the country, or they were really hard up for members."

[RainMaker]

Not with the last name Garcia and parents that don't speak English.

But 6 of the victims were minorities. That would have helped his chances.

[JPhillips]

I agree with the "gun nuts" on this one. Laws should be explicit and open to as little interpretation as possible. People should know where the line between legal and illegal is.

And "Assault Weapon" is a vague term. If you want to ban that "style" of weapon then talk about banning pistol grips and limiting the size of the magazine.

There's never been an assault weapons ban. There have been bans of specific models and or capabilities.

[RainMaker]

You'd think with a name like "Mauricio Garcia" you wouldn't be welcomed in many neo-nazi circles. I wonder how he became enamored with that garbage.

The leader of the Proud Boys is afro-cuban. The groyper guy is Mexican. It's a lot more common than you think.

Remember that this isn't all just about white supremacy, it's about fascism too. The whole RWDS patch that the Proud Boys and this guy wore is from their love of Pinochet. The Proud Boys sell it on their site.

He was even open about that decision online.

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[Edward64]

I agree with the "gun nuts" on this one. Laws should be explicit and open to as little interpretation as possible. People should know where the line between legal and illegal is.

And "Assault Weapon" is a vague term. If you want to ban that "style" of weapon then talk about banning pistol grips and limiting the size of the magazine.

From the 1994 Assault Weapons ban

Federal Assault Weapons Ban - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Assault_Weapons_Ban)
The Public Safety and Recreational Firearms Use Protection Act, popularly known as the Federal Assault Weapons Ban (AWB), was a subsection of the Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act of 1994, a United States federal law which included a prohibition on the manufacture for civilian use of certain semi-automatic firearms that were defined as assault weapons as well as certain ammunition magazines that were defined as large capacity.
Start with the 1994 definition and fine-tune as needed

Under the Assault Weapons Ban of 1994, the definition of "semi-automatic assault weapon" ("SAW") (commonly shortened to "assault weapon") included specific semi-automatic firearm models by name, and other semi-automatic firearms that possessed two or more from a set certain features:[19]
Semi-automatic rifles able to accept detachable magazines and has two or more of the following:

Folding or telescoping stock
Pistol grip
Bayonet mount
Flash hider or threaded barrel designed to accommodate one
Grenade launcher
Semi-automatic pistols with detachable magazines and two or more of the following:
Magazine that attaches outside the pistol grip
Threaded barrel to attach barrel extender, flash suppressor, handgrip, or suppressor
Barrel shroud safety feature that prevents burns to the operator
A manufactured weight of 50 ounces (1.41kg) or more when the pistol is unloaded
A semi-automatic version of a fully automatic firearm.
Semi-automatic shotguns with two or more of the following:
Folding or telescoping stock
Pistol grip
A fixed magazine capacity in excess of 5 rounds
Detachable magazine.

The law also categorically banned the following makes and models of semi-automatic firearms and any copies or duplicates of them, in any caliber:

[Ksyrup]

I'm assuming this is accurate but it's from social media, so...

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">In case there is any doubt, the redline is when the assault weapon ban was not renewed. Just look at the dots. <a href="https://t.co/NK1pIRjhmy">pic.twitter.com/NK1pIRjhmy</a></p>&mdash; Dan Guachione (@1sounddept) <a href="https://twitter.com/1sounddept/status/1655643709587824640?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">May 8, 2023</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[GrantDawg]

A guy I knew in high school joined a skinhead group. He was half Jewish. He was the first one to get violent at any chance. That was until they tried to jump some black guys, and one of them took his bat off him. He was two weeks in the hospital. Suddenly, he was no longer as radical.

Sent from my SM-S916U using Tapatalk

[RainMaker]

I would ban the weapon that is being used in every single one of these mass shootings.

[CrimsonFox]

The leader of the Proud Boys is afro-cuban. The groyper guy is Mexican. It's a lot more common than you think.

Remember that this isn't all just about white supremacy, it's about fascism too. The whole RWDS patch that the Proud Boys and this guy wore is from their love of Pinochet. The Proud Boys sell it on their site.


I just woek up and skimming and my brain thought that said Pinocchio.
And it was like...REALLY....The Proud boys like Pinocchio...

[RainMaker]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">On Saturday, sister Daniela and Sofia Mendoza were shot and killed at the Allen Premium Outlet Mall in Allen, Texas.<br><br>Their principal described them as “rays of sunshine”.<br><br>Their mom is critically injured. <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/EndGunViolence?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#EndGunViolence</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/AssaultWeaponsBan?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#AssaultWeaponsBan</a> <a href="https://t.co/7AXnXquWKH">pic.twitter.com/7AXnXquWKH</a></p>&mdash; Newtown Action Alliance (@NewtownAction) <a href="https://twitter.com/NewtownAction/status/1655689186072985601?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">May 8, 2023</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[RainMaker]

I know it's morbid but if you're the Mother, do you even want to recover?

[CrimsonFox]

I know it's morbid but if you're the Mother, do you even want to recover?

I've heard the story many times that when one is critically ingured and the other dies the surviving one just gives yup and ends up dying too...

[Atocep]

It's interesting to me that the right really doesn't want this guy to be tied to neo-nazi's and white supremacists because that ties him to them. They're not debating that these groups aren't part of the right anymore. We've all just accepted that.

[RainMaker]

And another boomer shooting at a child for the crime of playing hide and seek near him.

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[RainMaker]

<samp class="EmbedCode-container"><code class="EmbedCode-code"><blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-conversation="none"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Family killed in the Texas mall shooting identified as Cindy Cho, Kyu Cho and their 3-year-old son, James Cho. Their other child, William, just turned 6 and is the only survivor. They were going to the mall to exchange clothes he received for his birthday <a href="https://t.co/SOibWZ1OtH">pic.twitter.com/SOibWZ1OtH</a></p>&mdash; BNO News (@BNONews) <a href="https://twitter.com/BNONews/status/1655626128105648143?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">May 8, 2023</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script> </code></samp>

[Lathum]

I know it's morbid but if you're the Mother, do you even want to recover?

That was my first thought and no. As a parent it’s easily your worst fear and to lose both there is zero chance I would want to go on.

[CrimsonFox]

That was my first thought and no. As a parent it’s easily your worst fear and to lose both there is zero chance I would want to go on.

In my high school...my senior year...I was doing a play...and at the cast party closing night...
There was a lot of excitement amongst the younger cast members about a guy named Stuart (who was a sophomore). And they were saying things like the coroner was in the auditence and got a call and had to leave, etc.

Something about a female classmate wanting to drive somewhere...like another town 20 miles away. and that she was driving or something.

The place later got a call and two of the adult women took it. They said "Stuart is gone". Apparently on gravel they flipped the car or something. He was one of two boys in that family...


A year later... I'm in college. Went back to visit one of my friends from a lower grade. Aaaaaand the OTHER boy...was in the play...and the mom said just a minute I'll take you. And he said no my friend is driving us...and she said no I'm going to take you and he said "Mom, don't do this..." and the mom let him go....

And later the Play director came into the dressing room and announced to the cast to cput their makeup down and come into the auditorium. He said that Duane...(the brother of the other kid that died) was in an accident on the way to the school. Another carflip incident or something. So unless someone else stepped up to take his role there would be nothing. Well they double cast shows so the altnight lead took his role by having a clipboard in his hand and reading his lines off that.

It was told to me when the cops arrived to tell her she was inconsolable ...
The second boy DID survive...but he could not walk. I saw him at college a year later with his friend as they were visiting someone else and he had those metal crutches to walk.

The mom it was said when seen in church just looked lost ... and always sad.

I didn't really know any of them much. But she did keep going but so much was taken away from her. Perhaps it was religion and spirituality that kept her going...or the hope of the son himself surviving.

A fliop story that the exwife of a friend of mine in Dayton. She had a boy. I met this kid once at this event we were putting on. He was a scrawny hyper kid of about 9 or 10 eating a loaded plate of a huge pile of roast beef. That's all I remember of him.

YEARS later when I was in Seattle I was talking to a mutual friend who told me the story of this kid and how he was murdered by a friend who bludgeoned him to death with a nintendo controller when he was about 17.
I looked up this article online. And it was a time machine as it had happened years ago. Was so weird. And the wife...after this she left dayton completely as there was nothing left there. She could not stay. There were too many memories.

So people need to do what they need to do to carry on.

It takes time.

[albionmoonlight]

And another boomer shooting at a child for the crime of playing hide and seek near him.

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Too bad for him he didn't live one state over. Abbot would pardon him and throw him a parade.

[Lathum]

All these guys have the same completely blank stare. It is almost as if binge watching FOX News has that effect.

[Ghost Econ]

So before he murdered a child, was he a good gun owner or a bad gun owner.

I'll wait offline for the white answer.

[Thomkal]

So the FBI has put out an ad on what do in and how to survive a mass shooting. Pretty chilling, but well done:


https://twitter.com/AdamParkhomenko/status/1655869602549694464

[BYU 14]

So before he murdered a child, was he a good gun owner or a bad gun owner.

I'll wait offline for the white answer.

Thankfully the wound was none life threatening, but yes, your point remains.

The fear imbued into these guys by Fox and their ilk, turns them into gun zombies

[bryce]

If insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results, does continuing to do nothing at all and expecting different results qualify as insane?

[bryce]

So the FBI has put out an ad on what do in and how to survive a mass shooting. Pretty chilling, but well done:


https://twitter.com/AdamParkhomenko/status/1655869602549694464

I remember having tornado drills as a kid in school. Now, my 8 year old has active shooter drills at school. Just typing that...man, it's just...surreal, unreal, beyond ridiculous to be necessary.

[sterlingice]

If insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results, does continuing to do nothing at all and expecting different results qualify as insane?

For the record, I think it's a horrible definition of insanity. Stubbornness or obstinance, sure, or, in this case, naked graft. But insanity would be like doing the same thing over and over and expecting, I dunno, doing some shrooms and expecting flying unicorns with giant rainbows to wish away the AR-15s and solve the problem. ...Though, it is roughly as effective as hopes and prayers, at least towards resolving this problem

SI

[Ghost Econ]

I remember having tornado drills as a kid in school. Now, my 8 year old has active shooter drills at school. Just typing that...man, it's just...surreal, unreal, beyond ridiculous to be necessary.

Look, we have to pick and choose our battles.

We can either have 3rd graders learn how to apply battlefield tourniquets or maybe read a book about segregation.

We all have difficult decisions in our life where choices are clearly either A or B. I could eat lunch OR I could start a fire at a random person's house. Sometimes theres no rational choice and you have to ask God for guidance.

[sterlingice]

Look, we have to pick and choose our battles.

We can either have 3rd graders learn how to apply battlefield tourniquets or maybe read a book about segregation.

We all have difficult decisions in our life where choices are clearly either A or B. I could eat lunch OR I could start a fire at a random person's house. Sometimes theres no rational choice and you have to ask God for guidance.


As someone with a 7yo doing the same thing:


:lol:...


:mad:...


:(


SI

[sterlingice]

Look, we have to pick and choose our battles.

We can either have 3rd graders learn how to apply battlefield tourniquets or maybe read a book about segregation.


That's what parents rights are all about, right?



SI

[miami_fan]

Received this my email this morning.

Good morning [redacted] families. We are aware of a social media post involving a possible threat against our campus on Friday. The [redacted] Sheriff’s Office is investigating, and we are currently on Alert Campus status out of an abundance of caution. We are planning to have an enhanced law enforcement presence on campus tomorrow.

As you know, we take all threats seriously. I would like to thank the Sheriff’s Office for all they do to keep our students and staff safe.

So we will have an enhanced law enforcement presence plus parents bringing their own weapons with them as they drop their kids off plus the normal road rage associated with a congested drop off setup and oh yeah a possible threat against the students.

Cool

[flere-imsaho]

This country is such a fucking tire fire.

[miami_fan]

Received this my email this morning.



So we will have an enhanced law enforcement presence plus parents bringing their own weapons with them as they drop their kids off plus the normal road rage associated with a congested drop off setup and oh yeah a possible threat against the students.

Cool

Update: We decided to keep my son home today. I was prepared to take the slings and arrows about being overly protective, being a snowflake etc. I decided to drive the same route I would to drop him to school before I headed off to the gym. What do you know, there were maybe two cars turning into the driveway to the school. I contacted someone I know in the front office and they said the school had well over a 90% absentee rate today. While law enforcement is still investigating the above incident, a student was arrested for posting an written threat in a different incident and in a third incident single bullets were found in multiple classroom and that is being investigated.


Only two more weeks in the school year.

[flere-imsaho]

Doesn't sound like an over-reaction to me.

It's getting to the point where my sons might be safer randomly wandering around Chicago's South Side than going to school.

[bryce]

I contacted someone I know in the front office and they said the school had well over a 90% absentee rate today.

I'd guess the other 10% simply had no other daycare alternative and had to take them to school?

[miami_fan]

Doesn't sound like an over-reaction to me.


I mean I didn't really expect anyone to say much :p

I just did not expect it to be that many students out given some of the conversations I have been a part of around the ball fields when discussing some of the other school threats that have happened around the state/country.

I'd guess the other 10% simply had no other daycare alternative and had to take them to school?

Well it is high school so I don't think that was a major consideration but that may have been the case. My guess is it's a combination of a) kids/parents who did not believe that there was a actual threat b) kids taking advantage of the lack of information to scaring their parents who may have been inclined to send them to school c) kids needing to be in school to ensure passing a class or classes needed to be in class to do so and d) kids who have never missed a day of school from K through 12th grade. That last one may sound hokey but I believe there were six seniors who had that distinction at the high school last year. I remember the look on my son's face when we heard it at graduation last year.

[RainMaker]

Normal country.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Tonight on <a href="https://twitter.com/wbaltv11?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@wbaltv11</a>: A man with an AR-15 has been showing up for weeks to a school bus drop off for local elementary school students. <br>Parents say their kids are afraid, the man says he’s protesting <a href="https://twitter.com/GovWesMoore?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@GovWesMoore</a>’s new gun control law. You’ll hear from both sides at 5+6pm. <a href="https://t.co/rpdJXAkVh4">pic.twitter.com/rpdJXAkVh4</a></p>&mdash; Tolly Taylor (@TollyTaylor) <a href="https://twitter.com/TollyTaylor/status/1659271827879804928?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">May 18, 2023</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[sterlingice]

"Both sides"


SI

[Atocep]

I'm going to frighten elementary school children because someone isn't going to let me have guns near school children starting October 1st.

[RainMaker]

We'll listen to the terrified kids who don't want to be sliced in half with an AR-15 followed by the weird guy stalking kids with a rifle. Tune in at 5 and 6pm.

[CrimsonFox]

come on guys, i'm disappointed. When I see this thread updated I don't want general chatter. I want the new hi score listed for the AR15 club

[Qwikshot]

come on guys, i'm disappointed. When I see this thread updated I don't want general chatter. I want the new hi score listed for the AR15 club

Give it time

[Kodos]

The guys who first suggested that owning guns was a right really fucked us over.

[flere-imsaho]

Those guys clearly said it in the context of having maintained and regulated militias should a) the British invade again or b) the federal government prove too domineering over state governments (thus the "militia" would have been in a state government context).

The 2nd amendment is completely irrelevant in the 21st century, and also was in the 20th.

[Edward64]

You'd think the cops could do something about it like "public nuisance" or "loitering".

Same thing applies if there was a guy hanging around a school drop off, for multiple days without a weapon.

[GrantDawg]

The guys who first suggested that owning guns was a right really fucked us over.
I think we can generally agree the first organism that pulled it self out of the ocean started this whole mess.

[RainMaker]

CNN has a 1 year special on Uvalde on right now. They've gotten some footage that authorities are still keeping from the public as part of their cover-up. Showed the girl who covered herself in her friends blood to act dead. It's really brutal.

Authorities have still not done the honorable thing a year later.

[CrimsonFox]

I think we can generally agree the first organism that pulled it self out of the ocean started this whole mess.

sure....it's always the Ichthyostega's fault! :rant:

[RainMaker]

<samp class="EmbedCode-container"><code class="EmbedCode-code"><blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Our first story on Khloie Torres the little girl seen covered in blood in the <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/wholestory?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#wholestory</a> episode Sunday night. <br><br>10-year-old trapped with the Uvalde school shooter repeatedly called 911 for help. <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/uvalde?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#uvalde</a> <br> <a href="https://t.co/vUNGXe3599">https://t.co/vUNGXe3599</a></p>&mdash; Shimon Prokupecz (@ShimonPro) <a href="https://twitter.com/ShimonPro/status/1660789060699398144?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">May 22, 2023</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script> </code></samp>

[Edward64]

Yeah ... no.

I can maybe see considering a release hearing in 2043 after 20+ years of exemplary conduct, but not now.

https://apnews.com/article/townville-school-shooting-jesse-osborne-0cd4c422fd51a4c357fb9be6caed4bd9
A school shooter serving a life sentence without parole for killing a first grader on a South Carolina playground when he was 14 is asking a judge to lessen his sentence so he can eventually get out of prison.

Jesse Osborne’s lawyer asked Judge Lawton McIntosh on Monday to reconsider his sentence so Osborne, now 21, could have some hope of freedom in his 50s or 60s.

Attorney Frank Eppes said the judge didn’t fully consider a psychologist’s report that Osborne’s lashed out because of abuse and can be rehabilitated.

“Give Jesse some hope to live with,” Eppes said at a televised court hearing.

[Lathum]

I prefer he ride the lightening.

[GrantDawg]

Yeah ... no.

I can maybe see considering a release hearing in 2043 after 20+ years of exemplary conduct, but not now.

https://apnews.com/article/townville-school-shooting-jesse-osborne-0cd4c422fd51a4c357fb9be6caed4bd9
Ummmmm...that is exactly what was being asked here. They wanted to change the sentence so he would at least have a possibility of parole when he was 50-60 years old. He is 21 now, so that would be like 2053 or so.

[Lathum]

Ummmmm...that is exactly what was being asked here. They wanted to change the sentence so he would at least have a possibility of parole when he was 50-60 years old. He is 21 now, so that would be like 2053 or so.

I think what Edward was saying is now isn't the time to consider it but maybe 20 years down the road they can start thinking about it.

Like I said. 20 years from now I would prefer he be in the ground.

[Edward64]

They are asking for

Jesse Osborne’s lawyer asked Judge Lawton McIntosh on Monday to reconsider his sentence (now) so Osborne , now 21, could have some hope of freedom in his 50s or 60s.

I'm saying don't even consider it at all. Wait till 2043, see if he's been model inmate, and then possibly hold the hearing to consider it.

[Edward64]

I think what Edward was saying is now isn't the time to consider it but maybe 20 years down the road they can start thinking about it.

Like I said. 20 years from now I would prefer he be in the ground.

Yeah, what the man said.

[BYU 14]

I prefer he ride the lightening.

Same, I never get this angle to give him hope that he can be free some day. That child he killed had hope of a future too, take his for what he took.

One thing I am definitely 100% on board with is not giving murderers room and board for 30, 40, 50 years. Capitol punishment should be nationwide and carried out within 5 years of the sentence IMO.

[miami_fan]

I am not saying he should have done it, but I understand.

https://www.fox13news.com/news/video-shows-impatient-florida-man-pull-semi-automatic-handgun-atm-user

It is rare for me to go to a brick and mortar bank nowadays for any reason. However since I became an adult, I don't think I have ever used the ATM machine for anything else than to check my balance or withdraw money. I definitely not done so at the drive thru ATM. To me, the ATM is like the 10 item or less line at the grocery store. Make a quick transaction and get going. If you have to fill out your deposit slip, drive around and let others use the machine while you are doing so.

Oh yeah, add this to the list of things you could get a semi-automatic handgun. Plus don't lump the bald men community and the men with tattoos in with this guy. Find some other descriptor for him.;)

[GrantDawg]

We shouldn't excute anybody, much less children. I know lots of people wish were more like Iran, the only country in the world that will sentence people under 18 to death, but maybe we should be a little more enlightened than that?

Sent from my SM-S916U using Tapatalk

[stevew]

Was watching an SVU the other day and they had some elaborate speech about the guy getting a needle in the arm. Except at that point it was something like 37 years since the last execution in NY and in 2004ish it was outlawed altogether.

[CrimsonFox]

I am not saying he should have done it, but I understand.

https://www.fox13news.com/news/video-shows-impatient-florida-man-pull-semi-automatic-handgun-atm-user

It is rare for me to go to a brick and mortar bank nowadays for any reason. However since I became an adult, I don't think I have ever used the ATM machine for anything else than to check my balance or withdraw money. I definitely not done so at the drive thru ATM. To me, the ATM is like the 10 item or less line at the grocery store. Make a quick transaction and get going. If you have to fill out your deposit slip, drive around and let others use the machine while you are doing so.

Oh yeah, add this to the list of things you could get a semi-automatic handgun. Plus don't lump the bald men community and the men with tattoos in with this guy. Find some other descriptor for him.;)


Looks like David Harbour in Stranger Things 4

[BYU 14]

We shouldn't excute anybody, much less children. I know lots of people wish were more like Iran, the only country in the world that will sentence people under 18 to death, but maybe we should be a little more enlightened than that?

Sent from my SM-S916U using Tapatalk

We should also be more enlightened than letting violent criminals out of prison early, or reducing the bond of violent criminals so they can exact revenge on people that got them arrested, or hurt other innocents.

I would think protecting children, women and others that can't always protect themselves would take precedent over sparing the life of violent sociopaths.

And in reference to executing children, which is what that shooter did, I realize kids under 18 will not be sentenced to death, which I actually agree with, despite my comment, they also shouldn't be given a chance at early release so they have 'hope' either after destroying an innocent family.

[GrantDawg]

Seven people were shot on Hollywood Beach in Florida. DeSantis blaming it on woke in 3, 2, 1....

Sent from my SM-S916U using Tapatalk

[QuikSand]

Normal country.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Tonight on <a href="https://twitter.com/wbaltv11?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@wbaltv11</a>: A man with an AR-15 has been showing up for weeks to a school bus drop off for local elementary school students. <br>Parents say their kids are afraid, the man says he’s protesting <a href="https://twitter.com/GovWesMoore?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@GovWesMoore</a>’s new gun control law. You’ll hear from both sides at 5+6pm. <a href="https://t.co/rpdJXAkVh4">pic.twitter.com/rpdJXAkVh4</a></p>&mdash; Tolly Taylor (@TollyTaylor) <a href="https://twitter.com/TollyTaylor/status/1659271827879804928?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">May 18, 2023</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Have been in the room with local authorities trying to sort out what they can and cannot do about this. It is not a simple situation.

[cuervo72]

There was some guy in TN doing much the same but in a red ninja costume. If laws say you can do that, no, there's not going to be a simple way of stopping it, I reckon.

[Ghost Econ]

Have been in the room with local authorities trying to sort out what they can and cannot do about this. It is not a simple situation.

It would be if he were black.

[cuervo72]

This particular guy is black.

[CrimsonFox]

Have been in the room with local authorities trying to sort out what they can and cannot do about this. It is not a simple situation.

That's called a threat with a deadly weapon.

[albionmoonlight]

https://www2.ca3.uscourts.gov/opinarch/212835pen.pdf

En banc Third Circuit strikes down a felon-in-possession prosecution. The opinion claims to be narrow, but some folks I know who know a lot more about the in and outs of this than I do think that it is actually pretty broad in its reasoning.

Strong probability that this gets to the Supreme Court.

[CrimsonFox]

https://apnews.com/article/vcu-shooting-richmond-monroe-park-af3d46f8ece90c574731354a4e4157ab

Graduation shooting

[RainMaker]

Another lead infested boomer losing his mind.

Florida man faces charges after confronting driver with gun for backing up into driveway - WSVN 7News | Miami News, Weather, Sports | Fort Lauderdale (https://www.google.com/amp/s/wsvn.com/news/local/florida/florida-man-faces-charges-after-confronting-driver-with-gun-for-backing-up-into-driveway/amp/)

[miami_fan]

Another lead infested boomer losing his mind.

Florida man faces charges after confronting driver with gun for backing up into driveway - WSVN 7News | Miami News, Weather, Sports | Fort Lauderdale (https://www.google.com/amp/s/wsvn.com/news/local/florida/florida-man-faces-charges-after-confronting-driver-with-gun-for-backing-up-into-driveway/amp/)

The driver has to come back and kill that guy at some point right? Or at the very least the male members of her family do something to that guy to let him know that is not acceptable right? I mean we are supposed to returning to the good ol' days when men were men. Point a gun a woman's head in the middle of the road? In the good ol' days, the guy is in the jail house for his protection.

[Ksyrup]

The driver has to come back and kill that guy at some point right? Or at the very least the male members of her family do something to that guy to let him know that is not acceptable right? I mean we are supposed to returning to the good ol' days when men were men. Point a gun a woman's head in the middle of the road? In the good ol' days, the guy is in the jail house for his protection.

I know this is tongue in cheek, but in all seriousness, what is emboldening these people is that the entirety of society does not live under the same worldview as they do, and they know it. Back in the 1850s, yes, that's exactly what would happen. But I don't own a gun and am not interested in violence. I think the calculus is that most of "those people" they are confronting aren't going to level up, so they are free to be the bully.

It seems to me that there are two options: (1) get LE involved, and (2) publicly out the fuckers so they are shamed and perhaps lose their jobs. I know people cringe about how we've overdone #2 in this country thanks to social media, but it's really a substitute for lack of LE doing their jobs (either to protect the fuckers or due to weak laws/unwilling prosecutors) and a proxy for the old west way we used to go about getting revenge. Everyone can talk about someone having a bad moment that shouldn't ruin their lives, but 150 years ago, that "bad moment" got you killed.

[PilotMan]

It's not like LE tracks down and deals with 100% of law breakers. It only sets the table for the select enforcement that we have today. And I don't mean, sample enforcement, like where you have sobriety checkpoints to catch people instead of catching every single one either. It's one guy decides that "A" is a crime and puts the effort in to enforce it and another one decides it isn't. Or like how they determine just how much loss is necessary in order to follow up on an actual crime. All of that sets the table for unreliable, and not very useful LE. Which only makes option 2 one of the only real options to hold people accountable.

[albionmoonlight]

I remember someone saying once that TV gives us a very skewed view of LE investigations. Solving a mystery makes for good TV, so we watch the detectives over 40 minutes interviewing witnesses and checking bank records and going over the crime scene with tweezers, etc. and then the detective makes some awesome leap of logic and figures out who did it.

In reality, in the vast majority of murders/attempted murders/violent assaults you either have eyewitnesses who can tell LE who did it or it's the angry boyfriend/husband. That's what LE does--they see if anyone saw the crime, and if not, they check on the boyfriend. And that works most of the time.

But if it is neither of those two circumstances, then the case tends to go cold.

All of which is to say that LE is necessary and important, but people expect it to be able to do more than it is really designed to do.

[HerRealName]

The current system isn't a bug, it's just another example of the bias built into the justice system. There's discretion built into every step of the process for a reason.

[cuervo72]

I remember someone saying once that TV gives us a very skewed view of LE investigations. Solving a mystery makes for good TV, so we watch the detectives over 40 minutes interviewing witnesses and checking bank records and going over the crime scene with tweezers, etc. and then the detective makes some awesome leap of logic and figures out who did it.

In reality, in the vast majority of murders/attempted murders/violent assaults you either have eyewitnesses who can tell LE who did it or it's the angry boyfriend/husband. That's what LE does--they see if anyone saw the crime, and if not, they check on the boyfriend. And that works most of the time.

But if it is neither of those two circumstances, then the case tends to go cold.

All of which is to say that LE is necessary and important, but people expect it to be able to do more than it is really designed to do.

It's amazing watching some of these cold case shows. Team swoops in 5, 10, 15, 20, 30 years after the fact. Reopen the case, and have the same very small list of suspects. And yeah, 95% of the time it is a relative, boyfriend, ex-boyfriend, or "random intruder." Ok, one time it was "girl was drunk, got her car stuck in the mud, fire started inside the car and she couldn't get out." But that was a weird outlier. Almost inevitably they rule out the random intruder, and they're back to the most obvious suspect.

BUT -- the crime scene wasn't adequately investigated. Or someone disturbed or even cleaned up the crime scene. Or evidence went missing or was destroyed. The cops waited for ages to talk to anyone. The cops were really only qualified to make traffic stops or were otherwise inept. The cops didn't want to be bothered.

Or, they can't find enough evidence (no body, no DNA, no weapon) and nobody will talk. It seems like half the time they only make progress because someone broke down and finally talked.

[Atocep]

Another lead infested boomer losing his mind.

Florida man faces charges after confronting driver with gun for backing up into driveway - WSVN 7News | Miami News, Weather, Sports | Fort Lauderdale (https://www.google.com/amp/s/wsvn.com/news/local/florida/florida-man-faces-charges-after-confronting-driver-with-gun-for-backing-up-into-driveway/amp/)


Vetsch faces a charge of aggravated assault with a deadly weapon without intent to kill. At his first appearance in court the next day, he was ordered to have no contact with the victim and was granted a $50,000 bond.


It's weird to me that you can point a gun directly at someone within 2 inches of their head and get a charge that specially states without intent to kill. Maybe that's just me though.

[molson]

It's weird to me that you can point a gun directly at someone within 2 inches of their head and get a charge that specially states without intent to kill. Maybe that's just me though.

For an intent element you have to prove that the event would have occurred if not for some intervening circumstance, or failure on the defendant's part. Like they shoot and miss, or shoot the person in the chest but they don't die.

Pointing a gun at someone is classic aggravated assault.

Edit: Pointing a gun at someone over something so innocuous is a pretty big aggravating factor though. It shows that someone is very dangerous and that it probably wouldn't take much more for them to take the next step and intend to kill.

[Atocep]

For an intent element you have to prove that the event would have occurred if not for some intervening circumstance, or failure on the defendant's part. Like they shoot and miss, or shoot the person in the chest but they don't die.

Pointing a gun at someone is classic aggravated assault.

Edit: Pointing a gun at someone over something so innocuous is a pretty big aggravating factor though. It shows that someone is very dangerous and that it probably wouldn't take much more for them to take the next step and intend to kill.

I get it from a legal standpoint. I just think that you don't pull a gun and point it at someone's head unless there's some intent to kill and our laws should reflect that.

It's just one of the many weird things with our society, guns, and laws.

[Atocep]

I can only imagine how often this is happening and not being reported or making the news.

[molson]

I get it from a legal standpoint. I just think that you don't pull a gun and point it at someone's head unless there's some intent to kill and our laws should reflect that.

It's just one of the many weird things with our society, guns, and laws.

It's ultimately just the name of a charge given in a statute. In a lot of states, an aggravated assault charge, maybe with a firearm sentencing enhancement, can have a similar sentencing range as attempted murder. And you know the judge will sentence similarly because they're sentencing based on the conduct and the criminal history, etc., not what the name of the charge is. And aggravated assault is a lot easier to prove.

Judges almost always have the authority and law to sentence aggravated assaulters to decades, and, if we want that, the way to get it is.....the dreaded statutory mandatory minimum sentences.

[NobodyHere]

This should be an interesting trial.

Parkland shooting: Opening statements begin in trial of Scot Peterson, school resource officer who stayed outside during massacre | CNN (https://www.cnn.com/2023/06/07/us/scot-peterson-trial-parkland-shooting/index.html)

[molson]

I can only imagine how often this is happening and not being reported or making the news.

Definitely. There's a lot of people who will never report anything, which probably contributes to normalizing that kind of conduct, and also lesser sentences for people when they finally are caught. The "no criminal record" people that most definitely are comfortable pointing guns at people and have probably done it before. So at sentencing he gets to be the "nice guy who had a bad day" and has probably has CTE from high school football and he volunteers at the soup kitchen, and he's in therapy and has quit drinking.

And the making the news thing is always fascinating to me. There are choices made about what the news reports and how they do it. Some murders become Dateline episodes, and some (even cases with crazy facts) get no or almost news coverage at all. And I don't know how much of that is the choice of news reporters, or if there's mechanisms that push certain cases to a higher status on social media.

[albionmoonlight]

And the making the news thing is always fascinating to me. There are choices made about what the news reports and how they do it. Some murders become Dateline episodes, and some (even cases with crazy facts) get no or almost news coverage at all. And I don't know how much of that is the choice of news reporters, or if there's mechanisms that push certain cases to a higher status on social media.

Remember a while back when all the missing white girl stories made national news? I remember seeing people posting missing girls on social media and saying "please help us make this go national!"

Which is crazy that the decision of what to publish and not publish (which really might be the difference between the kid being found or not) is so arbitrary.

[Ksyrup]

Remember a while back when all the missing white girl stories made national news? I remember seeing people posting missing girls on social media and saying "please help us make this go national!"

Which is crazy that the decision of what to publish and not publish (which really might be the difference between the kid being found or not) is so arbitrary.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/7hT4mDU0Hb8?start=99" title="YouTube video player" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture; web-share" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[molson]

I think a big part of it is whatever will make people most angry, and which will divide the most people, which will make them more engaged.

So, cases with victims who share traits with the majority audience, any kind of racial component, anything with an arguable self-defense component, or anything where the investigation did not go smoothly in some way or was perceived not to go smoothly, and of course, anything with someone famous or who worked in law enforcement or politics as the defendant. So these cases disproportionally inform the public's view of the criminal justice system.