Roy Moore Accused of sexual contact with 14 yr old when he was 32

[albionmoonlight]

Woman says Roy Moore initiated sexual encounter when she was 14, he was 32 - The Washington Post (https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/woman-says-roy-moore-initiated-sexual-encounter-when-she-was-14-he-was-32/2017/11/09/1f495878-c293-11e7-afe9-4f60b5a6c4a0_story.html?utm_term=.bdbbb1342ecb)

Don't know if this will swing the election, but a Democratic senator from Alabama changes the math a bit.

[ISiddiqui]

Holy shit!

Woman says Roy Moore initiated sexual encounter when she was 14, he was 32 - The Washington Post (https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/woman-says-roy-moore-initiated-sexual-encounter-when-she-was-14-he-was-32/2017/11/09/1f495878-c293-11e7-afe9-4f60b5a6c4a0_story.html?hpid=hp_rhp-top-table-main_moore-art-1pm%3Ahomepage%2Fstory&utm_term=.30525230d7be)

[mckerney]

And I'll still be surprised if they don't elect him.

[lungs]

If he asks God for forgiveness, it's all good.

[Jas_lov]

Yeah, Alabama voters will still think a Democrat is worse and Moore will just win by 20 instead of 30.

[Butter]

Age of consent in Alabama is like 11, so we're good.

.

.


.



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Kidding.

[JPhillips]

I'm pretty surprised that the establishment GOP seems to be bailing on Moore.

[stevew]

Thou shalt not fuck a 14 year old is apparently not on the Ten Commandments

[Thomkal]

Holy shit!

Woman says Roy Moore initiated sexual encounter when she was 14, he was 32 - The Washington Post (https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/woman-says-roy-moore-initiated-sexual-encounter-when-she-was-14-he-was-32/2017/11/09/1f495878-c293-11e7-afe9-4f60b5a6c4a0_story.html?hpid=hp_rhp-top-table-main_moore-art-1pm%3Ahomepage%2Fstory&utm_term=.30525230d7be)

only way this would be better if he had encounters with boys too. (not serious). Hopefully these stories check out and that's end of Moore. Though not likely in Alabama.

[Thomkal]

I'm pretty surprised that the establishment GOP seems to be bailing on Moore.

Because he's much more in the line of Trump and Bannon than establishment GOP.

[JPhillips]

Because he's much more in the line of Trump and Bannon than establishment GOP.

Even the current GOP governor won't endorse Moore.

[NobodyHere]

Thou shalt not fuck a 14 year old is apparently not on the Ten Commandments

For most of history having sex with a 14 year old was kosher.

Just sayin'

[OldGiants]

Was it Hughie Long who said, "The only way I'll lose this election is if they find me in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."?

[Ben E Lou]

Seriously. The establishment GOP has to be tickled pink about this.

[NobodyHere]

It may come down to what can be proven and how strong the allegations are. Donald Trump had then-minors accusing him of rape and yet he's the president.

[cartman]

Rumor has it that if the Alabama GOP withdraws their nomination, it is too late to pull him off of the ballot. But even if he gets the most votes, he wouldn't be certified as the winner due to the nomination being withdrawn.

[thesloppy]

For a second there, I thought this thread was about Dolemite.....what a relief!

[NobodyHere]

For a second there, I thought this thread was about Dolemite.....what a relief!

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/jhWgeHeiOyg" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[mckerney]

Rumor has it that if the Alabama GOP withdraws their nomination, it is too late to pull him off of the ballot. But even if he gets the most votes, he wouldn't be certified as the winner due to the nomination being withdrawn.

Murkowski has reportedly talked to Strange about a write in campaign.

Would love for Jones to win just got the increase in excuses to use Dougie Jones gifs that he'd provide.

https://media.giphy.com/media/3oKIPqp4RC9RPQRveE/giphy.gif

[Ben E Lou]

Check Alabama law. Not sure Strange can run 3rd Party.

[cartman]

Yeah, I was seeing something about Alabama having a 'sore losers' law that prevents someone from running for an office more than once in a year.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Yeah, Alabama voters will still think a Democrat is worse and Moore will just win by 20 instead of 30.

Any rational voter would make the same choice at this point.

You could pretty much rape a goat with a cat & be more worthy of office than anyone that willingly associates themselves with the (D).

[Ben E Lou]

McCain calls on Moore to step aside and becomes the first R I have seen not to use the “if this is true” qualifier in his statement.

[Logan]

Any rational voter would make the same choice at this point.

You could pretty much rape a goat with a cat & be more worthy of office than anyone that willingly associates themselves with the (D).

Just checking, is marijuana use now all that's left on your "fuck em, they're just criminals" stance? Seems like at the very least sexual contact with minors and criminal contempt don't apply to your views on the necessity and importance on upholding the law anymore.

[Suicane75]

Any rational voter would make the same choice at this point.

You could pretty much rape a goat with a cat & be more worthy of office than anyone that willingly associates themselves with the (D).

If I'm gonna get scratched and kicked that much, I might as well just have my normal sex.

[thesloppy]

Just checking, is marijuana use now all that's left on your "fuck em, they're just criminals" stance? Seems like at the very least sexual contact with minors and criminal contempt don't apply to your views on the necessity and importance on upholding the law anymore.

I'm sure we're all equally shocked to see Jon's 'authoritarian' stance slowly break down into 'fuck everybody who isn't me' as the rubber meets the road.

[RainMaker]

Any rational voter would make the same choice at this point.

You could pretty much rape a goat with a cat & be more worthy of office than anyone that willingly associates themselves with the (D).

I don't think rational people support pedophiles but to each their own.

[JPhillips]

The AL auditor has an interesting defense for Moore:

"Take Joseph and Mary. Mary was a teenager and Joseph was an adult carpenter. They became parents of Jesus.”

[sabotai]

I'm sure we're all equally shocked to see Jon's 'authoritarian' stance slowly break down into 'fuck everybody who isn't me' as the rubber meets the road.

Shocked. Shocked, I tell you!

[albionmoonlight]

https://politicalwire.com/2017/11/09/extra-bonus-quote-day-100/

“Take Joseph and Mary. Mary was a teenager and Joseph was an adult carpenter. They became parents of Jesus. There’s just nothing immoral or illegal here. Maybe just a little bit unusual.”

— Alabama state auditor Jim Ziegler (R), quoted by the Washington Examiner, defending Alabama U.S. Senate candidate Roy Moore (R), who is accused of initiating sexual relations with teenage girls.

Jim Ziegler busting into the establishment GOP reactions like

https://media.giphy.com/media/Heqbbp1m3mzJe/giphy.gif

[albionmoonlight]

dola: JPhillips beat me to it

[ntndeacon]

I bet that Strange gets the write in candidacy brewing. However Moore wants to paint this, it is certainly against the image he has for himself as a Christian maverick willing to buck the system to do the right thing. I suspect that he doesn't go down easily. (pun not intended)

He already is blaming the Washington Post to spreading vile untruths about him.

[bronconick]

Shocked. Shocked, I tell you!

http://www.reactiongifs.us/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/im_shocked.gif

[JPhillips]

The fun part will be when Moore wins and the GOP forgets this ever happened.

[JonInMiddleGA]

McCain calls on Moore to step aside and becomes the first R I have seen not to use the “if this is true” qualifier in his statement.

That's using the (R) pretty loosely there, in fairness.

[JonInMiddleGA]

I'm sure we're all equally shocked to see Jon's 'authoritarian' stance slowly break down into 'fuck everybody who isn't me' as the rubber meets the road.

What part of "I hold ISIS in higher regard than (D)" wasn't clear to you?

[Young Drachma]

The Post did their homework, if nothing else. Sounds like the one woman they mentioned where she had a lot of problems afterwards, not sure where discussing her financial problems really was relevant to the story -- unless they were afraid of being scooped -- but yeah...it's a pretty detailed and damning set of circumstances.

[Ben E Lou]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">After a long pause, Alabama Bibb County Republican chairman Jerry Pow tells me he'd vote for Roy Moore even if Moore did commit a sex crime against a girl. <br><br>&quot;I would vote for Judge Moore because I wouldn't want to vote for Doug,&quot; he says. &quot;I'm not saying I support what he did.&quot;</p>&mdash; Daniel Dale (@ddale8) <a href="https://twitter.com/ddale8/status/928734837887954950?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 9, 2017</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[JonInMiddleGA]

Just checking, is marijuana use now all that's left on your "fuck em, they're just criminals" stance? Seems like at the very least sexual contact with minors and criminal contempt don't apply to your views on the necessity and importance on upholding the law anymore.

Gonna need to read with a little more nuance I'm afraid.

Where did I excuse Moore's alleged criminal behavior? Nowhere that I see.

I made a comparison to his fitness to hold office as specifically compared to his upcoming opponent. And that's as far as my statement went.

If a plumber kills 50 people, he's still better suited to fixing pipes than someone who knows nothing about plumbing. That doesn't make him a great fella, it makes him more suitable to do plumbing work.

[thesloppy]

What part of "I hold ISIS in higher regard than (D)" wasn't clear to you?

That's kind of the point, you're motivations/opinions have never been anything but clear to everybody, it's your 'I respect authority & Christian values' nametag that's always been super cloudy.

[mckerney]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">After a long pause, Alabama Bibb County Republican chairman Jerry Pow tells me he'd vote for Roy Moore even if Moore did commit a sex crime against a girl. <br><br>&quot;I would vote for Judge Moore because I wouldn't want to vote for Doug,&quot; he says. &quot;I'm not saying I support what he did.&quot;</p>&mdash; Daniel Dale (@ddale8) <a href="https://twitter.com/ddale8/status/928734837887954950?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 9, 2017</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Already moved past fake news to, "I don't care."

[Thomkal]

The AL auditor has an interesting defense for Moore:

ah the old religion defense

[RainMaker]

It kind of goes with the belief that the more hardcore you are about something, the more likely you are to deep down be the person you claim to hate. We've seen this with anti-gay activists in the past who turned out to be gay. We've seen a slew of male feminists being predators behind the scene. It's at a point where I see a guy going on endlessly about rape culture and I just assume he must have raped someone in the past.

Adam Carolla has a funny bit about people like this in regards to kids. He says the scout group should gather the Dads and say "ok, who wants to take the kids camping?". The Dad who immediately shoots is hand in the air is the one that doesn't get to do it. You pick the Dad trying to hide in the back.

[Logan]

I don't think rational people support pedophiles but to each their own.

*hebephile*

h/t Imran

[ISiddiqui]

*hebephile*

h/t Imran

:thumbsup:

[RainMaker]

Whatever you call it, a guy in his 30's going for girls who could still be in Junior High is pretty fucked up.

I wonder how people who have daughters would react to their 14 year old being picked up by this guy.

[thesloppy]

It's at a point where I see a guy going on endlessly about rape culture and I just assume he must have raped someone in the past.

Last millenium when I was back in college I remember walking past a poster for an 'Everybody Welcome: Men's Anti-Rape Group' and thinking that had to be among the top places you're guaranteed to meet a rapist.

[stevew]

Whatever you call it, a guy in his 30's going for girls who could still be in Junior High is pretty fucked up.

I wonder how people who have daughters would react to their 14 year old being picked up by this guy.

He'd have to pry the Nintendo Switch from her cold dead hands first.

[stevew]

There are other options than voting for the Dem. Like you certify a write in candidate and put it up at the swap meet so rural Alabama peeps can learn how to spell it correctly.

[thesloppy]

There are other options than voting for the Dem. Like you certify a write in candidate and put it up at the swap meet so rural Alabama peeps can learn how to spell it correctly.

Or simply not vote in that race. Defensive voting seems almost contrary to the whole point of voting in the first place, to my mind, but it also seems to be most folks' preferred style these days.

[JPhillips]

ah the old religion defense

That's a wee bit theologically suspect.

[Atocep]

We need a flow chart for sexual perversions. What I've gathered lately is its ok to be a sexual deviant unless you're a Democrat and/or it happens to be gay sex.

[Marc Vaughan]

It may come down to what can be proven and how strong the allegations are. Donald Trump had then-minors accusing him of rape and yet he's the president.

That seems to be the difference - most of the celebrities involved have admitted (to a great or lesser extent) some misconduct and are being fried for it, Trump denied it all despite being taught on tape admitting it .... and so far has got away scot free.

I'm expecting Roy Moore to take the Trump approach and get a similar result unless there is hard evidence available.

[molson]

Adam Carolla has a funny bit about people like this in regards to kids. He says the scout group should gather the Dads and say "ok, who wants to take the kids camping?". The Dad who immediately shoots is hand in the air is the one that doesn't get to do it. You pick the Dad trying to hide in the back.

That culture of suspicion kind of sucks though. I'm an acquaintance with the director of the local Big Brothers/Sisters program and they can never find enough men to help because nobody wants to be assumed to be a pedophile. So those kids are kind of the third-tier victims of creeps like Louis CK and Spacey. Because of the suspicion and paranoia those guys create, there's fewer men willing to take part in those types of volunteer activities in those types of positive programs, programs which could probably help some young poor kids with shitty parents have more positive role models and at least have a chance to not be abusers/harassers themselves.

[stevew]

I pulled a straight D lever the other day and will continue to do so until anything positive comes from the republican party

[mckerney]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">&quot;God is a pedophile&quot; is a all time top3 take we are all lucky2 of witnessed it <a href="https://t.co/9xrC0HdD34">https://t.co/9xrC0HdD34</a></p>&mdash; PFTCommenter (@PFTCommenter) <a href="https://twitter.com/PFTCommenter/status/928751202770309120?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 9, 2017</a></blockquote>
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[JPhillips]

HANNITY: Do you remember dating girls that young?

MOORE: "Not generally, no"

Dear, lord.

[JPhillips]

dola

and then this,

"I don't remember dating any girl without the permission of her mother"

[stevew]

Anyone else kind of think it's a bit odd that this guy who is supposed to be some moral man of God got married at age 38 to a 24 year old? I know that people get married with that much of an age difference all the time, but it doesn't seem like that much of a jump to think that he really liked younger girls. Figure his wife was 21 or 22 when they met each other. And I know like somebody on this form probably is going to be like what I got married at that age blah blah blah and I am not trying to like throw shade on anybody here. It just seems kind of weird and it wouldn't surprise me if these allegations are 100% correct. And who knows how long he was going after his wife before they were even together, but it seems funny.

Also this was early 80s Behavior and there's not really a comparison now anyways.

[NobodyHere]

Trump denied it all despite being taught on tape admitting it .... and so far has got away scot free.


The particular rape accusation I was referring to was this one

Why The New Child Rape Case Filed Against Donald Trump Should Not Be Ignored | HuffPost (https://www.huffingtonpost.com/lisa-bloom/why-the-new-child-rape-ca_b_10619944.html)

[RainMaker]

Anyone else kind of think it's a bit odd that this guy who is supposed to be some moral man of God got married at age 38 to a 24 year old? I know that people get married with that much of an age difference all the time, but it doesn't seem like that much of a jump to think that he really liked younger girls. Figure his wife was 21 or 22 when they met each other. And I know like somebody on this form probably is going to be like what I got married at that age blah blah blah and I am not trying to like throw shade on anybody here. It just seems kind of weird and it wouldn't surprise me if these allegations are 100% correct. And who knows how long he was going after his wife before they were even together, but it seems funny.

Also this was early 80s Behavior and there's not really a comparison now anyways.

Didn't have time to get married younger. Was busying trying to fuck chicks in Junior High.

[RainMaker]

I also have a feeling a lot more is going to come out with this guy. They dug that up in no time and someone who is as ideological as he is likely has a ton of skeletons in the closet.

[stevew]

Every time they say, we can't change the ballot because there's not enough time, I wonder what type of world those people are living in. We have next day shipping these days. It's not like the ballots have to be delivered by horse and carriage. And to be honest, they say it's too hard to get the ballots to all the servicemen. If those guys wait until the last minute to vote, ballot isn't going to be counted on Election night anyways. It'll only factor in if the election is so close that they have to recount. Maybe a week is to short of a notice, but they have 30 days to get ballots changed. Some sort of secure voting method for members of the service who are abroad is something that we need to implement anyways.

[JPhillips]

Apparently the law in Alabama specifies that it is too late now.

[Bee]

Every time they say, we can't change the ballot because there's not enough time, I wonder what type of world those people are living in. We have next day shipping these days. It's not like the ballots have to be delivered by horse and carriage. And to be honest, they say it's too hard to get the ballots to all the servicemen. If those guys wait until the last minute to vote, ballot isn't going to be counted on Election night anyways. It'll only factor in if the election is so close that they have to recount. Maybe a week is to short of a notice, but they have 30 days to get ballots changed. Some sort of secure voting method for members of the service who are abroad is something that we need to implement anyways.

My understanding is that the early voting ballots have already been sent out, that's why they can't change it.

[Ben E Lou]

In case you missed it, a strong pushback was issued by the attorney of one of the four women:

One of Roy Moore's accusers: 'Roy Moore knows the truth' | AL.com (http://www.al.com/news/huntsville/index.ssf/2017/11/one_of_roy_moores_accusers_roy.html)


On behalf of Gloria Deason, please accept this additional statement on her behalf:



This statement is being given due to the public falsehoods and defamatory remarks being made by Roy Moore, many Alabama Republican officeholders and leaders, and Steve Bannon, regarding the motivations of Ms. Deason in describing her former relationship with Moore. She did not seek public exposure on the events described in The Washington Post article. She was contacted by the Post reporters several weeks ago. After careful consideration, and fully understanding that her character and veracity would be viciously attacked, she nonetheless agreed to go on the record and tell the truth.



Ms. Deason confirms that the The Post accurately reported the substance of her interviews with them. She does not know the other women named in the article. She is no longer a resident of Alabama. She is a registered Republican, but has no affiliation with the RNC and has not been contacted by the RNC or any Republican leaders at any time. The same is true for the DNC and Democratic leaders. She does not know Doug Jones, has not been contacted at any point by him or anyone associated with his campaign nor made any financial contributions to him.



There is nothing about being public regarding her relationship with Roy Moore that will enhance Ms. Deason's life. She did not seek the limelight. No glory, no financial compensation, no justice. But she stands firmly on the truth. No one can take that away from her. No one.



And Roy Moore knows the truth. Notably, he has not denied knowing Ms. Deason, or pursuing and dating her when she was 18 and he was in his mid-thirties. He has not denied plying her with alcohol knowing in his position as a district attorney that she was younger than the legal drinking age. He has not given a press conference or opened himself up to questions on his relationship with Ms. Deason or the other women named in the article. He appears to be in hiding while issuing incendiary statements about the women, calling them "evil" and accusing them of bribery and conspiracy with the DNC. He has also sent emails to his supporters using this as a reason to request more financial contributions for his campaign.



It is reprehensible that so many Alabama Republican officeholders and leaders of their party have rejected wholesale the magnitude of evidence reported in The Post. Worse yet, they claim that even if they believed the statements of pedophilia and sexual assault, specifically against Leigh Corfman (the 14 year old), to be true, they don't find it to be illegal or immoral conduct by Moore. A 14 year old cannot legally give consent for sex. In short, these leaders don't care. This is a stunning admission that the GOP is not a party of family values, certainly not in Alabama. And Steve Bannon's ridiculous statement that Moore's misconduct is akin to "locker room talk" deserves no response. It fails on its face.



For those critical of these 4 women for not voluntarily coming forward earlier, ask yourselves what difference it would have made. Republicans in Alabama, the Christian conservatives of the Deep South, are saying that they don't care if Roy Moore's predatory sexual child pursuits are true. It's no big deal to them that Moore abused his position of power as a district attorney and committed crimes against teenage women.

[molson]

Is it possible that JiMGA has just been a Russian troll all these years?

Molly McKew on Twitter: "The trollosphere having fun today: acct claiming to be American "independent" voter (but actually in Latvia) getting American accts to cheer… https://t.co/sWflXBvOaH" (https://twitter.com/mollymckew/status/929137096396328961)

[cartman]

I guess Tblisi could be considered middle Georgia

[cuervo72]

In short, these leaders don't care. This is a stunning admission that the GOP is not a party of family values, certainly not in Alabama.

Yes.

[larrymcg421]

Watching Sean Hannity's panel turn on him after the interview was pretty entertaining.

[Autumn]

I guess Tblisi could be considered middle Georgia

Amazing.

[larrymcg421]

Here's the thing. Let's put aside the moral part of this. I don't get the optics.

With or without this seat, it is highly unlikely the Dems retake the Senate in 2018. The only way that it would happen is a massive wave election, and defending a pedophile is a good way to help make that happen (2006).

Also, even if they lose the special election, the GOP would easily retake the seat in 2020 with a non-pedo candidate.

Why are they not loudly, strongly, and definitively kicking this guy to the curb?

[Autumn]

Well, I believe mainstream Republicans are throwing Moore under the bus just fine. They didn't want him to begin with. I think it's the far right that's defending him, and they could care less what they do to the Republican party's image.

[bronconick]

Senators Lee and Daines (Utah/Montana) withdrew endorsements and the Republican Senate fundraising group cut him off. I don't think they want him attached to them going forward.

[mckerney]

http://i.picresize.com/images/2017/11/11/uiJdM.jpg

[JPhillips]

Here's the thing. Let's put aside the moral part of this. I don't get the optics.

With or without this seat, it is highly unlikely the Dems retake the Senate in 2018. The only way that it would happen is a massive wave election, and defending a pedophile is a good way to help make that happen (2006).

Also, even if they lose the special election, the GOP would easily retake the seat in 2020 with a non-pedo candidate.

Why are they not loudly, strongly, and definitively kicking this guy to the curb?

Because a big part of the GOP believes in nothing but beating liberals.

[Ryche]

Because a big part of the GOP believes in nothing but beating liberals.

And they're having enough trouble passing anything now without losing another vote

[Butter]

I guess Tblisi could be considered middle Georgia

Petition to forcibly change his handle to "JoninTbilisi".

Please.

[stevew]

In Soviet Georgia there is no middle. Everyone is on same side[/hacky Russian accent]

[RainMaker]

Besides another accuser coming forward, we also found out Moore was banned from a mall for trying to pickup high school girls.

Locals Were Troubled by Roy Moore’s Interactions with Teen Girls at the Gadsden Mall | The New Yorker (https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/locals-were-troubled-by-roy-moores-interactions-with-teen-girls-at-the-gadsden-mall?mbid=social_twitter)

[larrymcg421]

Besides another accuser coming forward, we also found out Moore was banned from a mall for trying to pickup high school girls.

Locals Were Troubled by Roy Moore’s Interactions with Teen Girls at the Gadsden Mall | The New Yorker (https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/locals-were-troubled-by-roy-moores-interactions-with-teen-girls-at-the-gadsden-mall?mbid=social_twitter)

And the new accuser has Moore's signature in her yearbook.

[JPhillips]

So he hit on an elf at Santa Land, was banned from a mall, and signed a girl's yearbook with his name and D.A. for district attorney.

[Shkspr]

So he hit on an elf at Santa Land

Wow, he propositioned Jeff Sessions?

[RainMaker]

He's still trying to deny it all but what grown man in their thirties is signing yearbooks for high school girls.

[mckerney]

Or gets banned from a mall.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Roy Moore had been banned from a mall in Gadsden, Alabama, because he badgered teen girls, residents of the town, including lawyers and cops, say: <a href="https://t.co/2PiK8XzRT8">https://t.co/2PiK8XzRT8</a> <a href="https://t.co/AUxuoFj0nf">pic.twitter.com/AUxuoFj0nf</a></p>&mdash; The New Yorker (@NewYorker) <a href="https://twitter.com/NewYorker/status/930215276884430848?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 13, 2017</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[Autumn]

And a fifth woman comes forward. The line continues to be that these women are being paid to take down his campaign. I wonder how much you'd have to pay someone to go through this?

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-41973952

[jeff061]

Clearly this was organized as a political take down, not that it matters at all. The idea that this is a bunch of paid off liars is something only "fake news" mouth breathers could believe.

When you are so well known for trying to nail 14 year olds that your local authorities ban you from a mall and the local YMCA....... I got nothing. It's just fucked up. Looking forward to watching Alabama make asses of themselves in front of the entire country when they elect him.

Though I'm sure Moore is just negotiating his payoff to drop out.

[miked]

Well, as Jon said, he'd rather elect a pedophile than a democrat. Rule of law and all.

[molson]

Would Brown still win the election if he just admitted the allegations and ran on a pro-pedophilia stance?

[Subby]

Roy Moore Refusing To Withdraw From Alabama 13-Year-Old (https://politics.theonion.com/roy-moore-refusing-to-withdraw-from-alabama-13-year-old-1820438342)

[Ben E Lou]

Roy Moore’s wife has shared a FB Post trying to claim that the old hickory house in Gadsten was not there at the time he signed the yearbook. In the post, there is a picture of the old hickory house not in Gasfrn, but in....Tucker, Georgia. Ironically, in the late 90s and early 2000‘s, when I was in my early 30s, I set up a weekly breakfast with a ton of high school kids there. I literally have no idea how many high school kids and how often I ate breakfast at that place when I was in my early 30s. BUT I AM INNOCENT!!! 😇😇😇

[RainMaker]

How many yearbooks did you sign?

[NobodyHere]

How often did Roy Moore show up?

[Thomkal]

Roy Moore’s wife has shared a FB Post trying to claim that the old hickory house in Gadsten was not there at the time he signed the yearbook. In the post, there is a picture of the old hickory house not in Gasfrn, but in....Tucker, Georgia. Ironically, in the late 90s and early 2000‘s, when I was in my early 30s, I set up a weekly breakfast with a ton of high school kids there. I literally have no idea how many high school kids and how often I ate breakfast at that place when I was in my early 30s. BUT I AM INNOCENT!!! 😇😇😇

Waiting for the reporter to post the information that it was indeed there in 5.4.3..

[Ben E Lou]

How many yearbooks did you sign? interestingly enough the answer to that question on one level exonerates a portion of Moore’s comments, but on another is quite damning. My answer is that I do not recall ever signing one, but it is possible that I did. I got to know literally thousands of teenagers over the course of 17 years in youth ministry, so sure, it is possible that one of them asked me to sign and I simply don’t remember. The flipside of that coin, though, is that since leaving youth ministry as a vocation in my late 30s, I am 100% certain that I remember every teenager that I have known well enough that yearbook signing could be a possibility since then—especially the tiny number of girls—because since then I have been a normal adult and don’t hang out with teenagers all the time!

In other words, there’s no way I would not remember one since moving into a “normal” life. So, I tend to think the only way Moore‘s comment that he doesn’t remember signing it or knowing her is true would be because he knew so many teenaged girls that he just doesn’t remember this specific one.

[Ben E Lou]

Side question: another thing that did strike me as odd about the yearbook thing is that it says Christmas 1977. Did schools back then give out yearbooks at the end of the calendar year instead of the end of the school year? Alternately, it seems really weird that *anyone* would be signing a yearbook 6 to 7 months after it was given to the student at the end of the year.

[albionmoonlight]

For all of the uncomfortable twisting that GOP officials are doing, it seems like there are two perfectly acceptable responses a GOP pol can have:

(1) What Roy Moore did is completely horrible. I will never support or vote for him. I hope that an acceptable conservative runs a write-in campaign, and I will support him instead. If no such candidate emerges, I will refrain from supporting any candidate.

(2) What Roy Moore did is completely horrible. But he still presents the best chance to prevent a Democrat from winning a Senate seat. Considering how closely divided the Senate is, that one seat could have enormous consequences for the country and the world. I will therefore vote for Mr. Moore despite his horrible crimes.

I'm not sure why we haven't seen a settling on those two positions yet.

[mckerney]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Roy Moore mourns the end of school prayer and then adds &quot;they started creating new rights in 1965&quot;</p>&mdash; Ben Jacobs (@Bencjacobs) <a href="https://twitter.com/Bencjacobs/status/930624826456313856?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 15, 2017</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
https://i.imgur.com/Q7jO3gu.gif

[miami_fan]

For all of the uncomfortable twisting that GOP officials are doing, it seems like there are two perfectly acceptable responses a GOP pol can have:

(1) What Roy Moore did is completely horrible. I will never support or vote for him. I hope that an acceptable conservative runs a write-in campaign, and I will support him instead. If no such candidate emerges, I will refrain from supporting any candidate.

(2) What Roy Moore did is completely horrible. But he still presents the best chance to prevent a Democrat from winning a Senate seat. Considering how closely divided the Senate is, that one seat could have enormous consequences for the country and the world. I will therefore vote for Mr. Moore despite his horrible crimes.

I'm not sure why we haven't seen a settling on those two positions yet.

If my reading of the current GOP outside of DC is correct, any politician that chooses option 1 will be a former politician at the next opportunity to vote them out.

[tarcone]

Sounds like congress in general is having some difficulties with the whole power and sex thing. All those women coming forward, this Moore thing may just slot right into a bigger picture.

We need to just cleanse the power elite. Anyway to start this whole thing over?

[albionmoonlight]

We need to just cleanse the power elite. Anyway to start this whole thing over?

A process started about 2,000 years ago, but it’s definitely a long game strategy.

[RainMaker]

I know it's tough to find out your husband is a pedophile but this is kind of shitty too.

Kayla Moore posts support from 50 pastors; 3 ask for their names to be removed | AL.com (http://www.al.com/news/index.ssf/2017/11/53_pastors_sign_letter_of_supp.html)

[CrimsonFox]

I was thinking it's time for a Napoleon Dynamite joke and someone beat me to it.

http://static.fjcdn.com/pictures/Vote+for+pedo+made+this+forever+ago+used+to+have_028dbe_3785517.jpg

[SirFozzie]

I know it's tough to find out your husband is a pedophile but this is kind of shitty too.

Kayla Moore posts support from 50 pastors; 3 ask for their names to be removed | AL.com (http://www.al.com/news/index.ssf/2017/11/53_pastors_sign_letter_of_supp.html)


Basically, they just took an august support letter, removed three paragraphs, made it seem it was about the new allegations, and repost it without asking anyone to re-sign it, and it caught a lot of folks off guard.

[CrimsonFox]

Of all of em, I think Roy is the King of sexual awareness week.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/8-UdwBkXJBI" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[Ben E Lou]

It appears that Moore has even lost Hannity on this one.

<blockquote class="twitter-video" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Hannity gives Roy Moore 24 hours to prove he didn't sexually assault teenage girls. <a href="https://t.co/39RHPDmNcy">pic.twitter.com/39RHPDmNcy</a></p>&mdash; Judd Legum (@JuddLegum) <a href="https://twitter.com/JuddLegum/status/930632176206598146?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 15, 2017</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[Ben E Lou]

And seriously BERNIE FREAKIN' BERNSTEIN??????

LISTEN: Curious Robocall Seeks ‘Damaging’ Information on Moore | WKRG (http://wkrg.com/2017/11/14/curious-robocall-seeks-damaging-information-on-moore/)

[Thomkal]

It appears that Moore has even lost Hannity on this one.


More like all the advertisers who pulled ads from his shows

[JPhillips]

Bruce Register, 87, a retiree from Dothan, Ala, said that spiritually, the whole controversy was moot.

“I really don’t think someone of his character would have done that. And if he had done it, it doesn’t matter in God’s eyes because he’d have been forgiven,” Register said.

That's a convenient and dangerous theology you've got there, Bruce.

[Autumn]

When we build the wall, can we move it north a bit and put Alabama on the other side? I'm willing to vote for an amnesty bill for any Alabamites who want to get on the right side of ... everything and flee.

[CrescentMoonie]

Roy Moore’s bizarre attorney steps forward to offer a bizarre defense of Roy Moore - The Washington Post (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2017/11/15/roy-moores-bizarre-attorney-steps-forward-to-offer-bizarre-defense-of-roy-moore/?utm_term=.788f8f912fc8)

[mckerney]

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-4nGYcfpR4kk/WgyhjezO2jI/AAAAAAAAC_4/67YviYCyJJAwPMaverJKMwPGvH4vZR9IgCK8BGAs/s512/2017-11-15.jpg

[CrimsonFox]

And of course people are buying the coffee pots JUST to smash them. Just like Rutles albums.

[ISiddiqui]

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-4nGYcfpR4kk/WgyhjezO2jI/AAAAAAAAC_4/67YviYCyJJAwPMaverJKMwPGvH4vZR9IgCK8BGAs/s512/2017-11-15.jpg

:lol: :lol: :lol:

[PilotMan]

Word is that Trump is unwilling to address anything related to Moore (right now), because of his own history (Access Hollywood) and his strong pronouncement that all the women accusing him are complete and total liars.

[mckerney]

Trump won’t pull his Roy Moore endorsement until he hears Sean Hannity’s final judgement: report (https://www.rawstory.com/2017/11/trump-wont-pull-his-roy-moore-endorsement-until-he-hears-sean-hannitys-final-judgement-report/)

[Ben E Lou]

Moore's lawyer is about to hold a presser. Live stream here: https://www.clickondetroit.com/news/live-stream-roy-moore-s-attorney-will-hold-a-press-conference-on-sex-assault-allegations

[digamma]

I'd argue that if you're on TV arguing about the authenticity of a yearbook signature you've already lost, but I'm not the target audience here.

[larrymcg421]

The argument about the divorce seemed weak. It's certainly possible to go through a divorce proceeding without meeting the Judge.

[digamma]

My guess is that most divorces go through without meeting or knowing who the judge is.

[mckerney]

New Roy Moore accuser: 'He didn't pinch it; he grabbed it' | AL.com (http://www.al.com/news/index.ssf/2017/11/new_roy_moore_accuser_he_didnt.html)

[RainMaker]

The argument about the divorce seemed weak. It's certainly possible to go through a divorce proceeding without meeting the Judge.

Yeah, it's grasping. Just like leaving up the letter. Or claiming it's a cultural thing we wouldn't understand.

[Thomkal]

Moore's lawyer is kinda "cuckoo for Cocoa Puffs" I think:

Moore lawyer: Canadian MSNBC host's 'background' could help him understand dating minors | TheHill (http://thehill.com/homenews/media/360490-roy-moore-attorney-canadian-msnbc-hosts-background-could-help-him-understand)

[mckerney]

:lol: :lol: :lol:


Next up, never called a school to have them take a student out of class so he could ask her out.

Two more women describe unwanted overtures by Roy Moore at Alabama mall (https://www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/investigations/two-more-women-describe-unwanted-overtures-by-roy-moore-at-alabama-mall/2017/11/15/2a1da432-ca24-11e7-b0cf-7689a9f2d84e_story.html)

Richardson says Moore — now a candidate for U.S. Senate — asked her where she went to school, and then for her phone number, which she says she declined to give, telling him that her father, a Southern Baptist preacher, would never approve.

A few days later, she says, she was in trigonometry class at Gadsden High when she was summoned to the principal's office over the intercom in her classroom. She had a phone call.

"I said 'Hello?'" Richardson recalls. "And the male on the other line said, 'Gena, this is Roy Moore.' I was like, 'What?!' He said, 'What are you doing?' I said, 'I'm in trig class.' "

Richardson says Moore asked her out again on the call. A few days later, after he asked her out at Sears, she relented and agreed, feeling both nervous and flattered. They met that night at a movie theater in the mall after she got off work, a date that ended with Moore driving her to her car in a dark parking lot behind Sears and giving her what she called an unwanted, "forceful" kiss that left her scared.

"I never wanted to see him again," says Richardson, who is now 58 and a community college teacher living in Birmingham. She describes herself as a moderate Republican and says she didn't vote in the 2016 general election or in this year's Republican Senate primary in Alabama.

[mckerney]

Moore's lawyer is kinda "cuckoo for Cocoa Puffs" I think:

Moore lawyer: Canadian MSNBC host's 'background' could help him understand dating minors | TheHill (http://thehill.com/homenews/media/360490-roy-moore-attorney-canadian-msnbc-hosts-background-could-help-him-understand)

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">*** THREAD ****<br><br>Roy Moore must be desperate for legal counsel because he hired a racist lawyer, Trenton Garmon, who was disbarred in Alabama for an awful incident involving him impersonating a religious figure.<br><br>Then-Judge Moore voted to uphold his own attorney's disbarment. <a href="https://t.co/6yWo9Yqnx6">pic.twitter.com/6yWo9Yqnx6</a></p>&mdash; Grant Stern (@grantstern) <a href="https://twitter.com/grantstern/status/930947981745979392?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 15, 2017</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-conversation="none" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">6. Trenton Rogers Garmon was disbarred by the Alabama Bar Association in 2013<br><br>Garmon pretended to be a preacher in order to solicit legal work from the parents of a 13-year-old who recently died.<br><br>See Page 62-63<a href="https://t.co/tQrkUiaFpu">https://t.co/tQrkUiaFpu</a> <a href="https://t.co/0VjouuFpvx">pic.twitter.com/0VjouuFpvx</a></p>&mdash; Grant Stern (@grantstern) <a href="https://twitter.com/grantstern/status/930951901348319232?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 16, 2017</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-conversation="none" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">One more thing. Trenton Garmon went to an unaccredited law school. (Not a shock, I know.) <a href="https://t.co/ljxEpUjVuJ">pic.twitter.com/ljxEpUjVuJ</a></p>&mdash; �� (@17vwr) <a href="https://twitter.com/17vwr/status/930960947497394177?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 16, 2017</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[EagleFan]

Are we being punked? Is this some live action SNL skit?

[bronconick]

Peyton Reed‏Verified account @MrPeytonReed (https://twitter.com/MrPeytonReed) <small class="time"> 1h1 hour ago (https://twitter.com/MrPeytonReed/status/930993916295356416) </small>




Peyton Reed Retweeted Judge Roy Moore
Dear <s>@</s>MooreSenate (https://twitter.com/MooreSenate), You’re not allowed to use the name of my cheerleader movie, you fucking pedophile.

Peyton Reed added,
(https://twitter.com/MooreSenate/status/930976729124007936) Judge Roy Moore @MooreSenate
Dear Mitch McConnell, Bring. It. On.





181 replies 3,576 retweets 11,233 likes

[mckerney]

Peyton Reed‏Verified account @MrPeytonReed (https://twitter.com/MrPeytonReed) <small class="time"> 1h1 hour ago (https://twitter.com/MrPeytonReed/status/930993916295356416) </small>




Peyton Reed Retweeted Judge Roy Moore
Dear <s>@</s>MooreSenate (https://twitter.com/MooreSenate), You’re not allowed to use the name of my cheerleader movie, you fucking pedophile.

Peyton Reed added,
(https://twitter.com/MooreSenate/status/930976729124007936) Judge Roy Moore @MooreSenate
Dear Mitch McConnell, Bring. It. On.





181 replies 3,576 retweets 11,233 likes

I saw this response to it.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Bring It On is a movie about high school cheerleaders <a href="https://t.co/THLhYwpZSf">https://t.co/THLhYwpZSf</a></p>&mdash; Chris Hansen (@tankcat) <a href="https://twitter.com/tankcat/status/930984859367018496?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 16, 2017</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Was really disappointed it's not To Catch a Predator Chris Hansen.

[Thomkal]

wow can't say I'm surprised his lawyer is so shady. Hard to believe Moore would ever hire him for anything given he agreed to the disbarrment. Maybe Moore just forgot he had a past with him just like he forgot all those young girls.

[molson]

I hear lawyers are a lot cheaper when they're not actually permitted to practice law.

[mckerney]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Some Alabama pastors stand behind Roy Moore, cite &quot;War on Men&quot; <a href="https://t.co/1uEDDxxgsu">https://t.co/1uEDDxxgsu</a></p>&mdash; Thomas Edsall (@Edsall) <a href="https://twitter.com/Edsall/status/931980670041231360?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 18, 2017</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

When are men going to be able to get a fair shake in this country?

[RainMaker]

Pretty shocked the Church is covering for a kiddy fucker.

[miami_fan]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Some Alabama pastors stand behind Roy Moore, cite &quot;War on Men&quot; <a href="https://t.co/1uEDDxxgsu">https://t.co/1uEDDxxgsu</a></p>&mdash; Thomas Edsall (@Edsall) <a href="https://twitter.com/Edsall/status/931980670041231360?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 18, 2017</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

When are men going to be able to get a fair shake in this country?

Well if we are being honest, we have been allowing this sort of behavior for centuries. It is kind of unfair to demand this sort of accountability without some sort of grace period. :rolleyes:

[JPhillips]

Pastor Flip Benham told a local Alabama radio show on Monday that there was nothing wrong with Moore dating teenage girls.

“Judge Roy Moore graduated from West Point and then went on into the service, served in Vietnam and then came back and was in law school. All of the ladies, or many of the ladies that he possibly could have married were not available then, they were already married, maybe, somewhere. So he looked in a different direction and always with the [permission of the] parents of younger ladies. By the way, the lady he’s married to now, Ms. Kayla, was a younger woman,” Benham said on WAPI 99.5 FM Monday evening. “He did that because there is something about a purity of a young woman, there is something that is good, that’s true, that’s straight and he looked for that.”

And that's called, not helping.

[Edward64]

What a jerk.

[Groundhog]

With very minor word substitution you could take good Pastor Benham's quote and instead make it about an older Muslim man taking a child bride. I sometimes wonder if religious conservatives realize how similar they are to each other. We recently had a nation-wide survey re: gay marriage, and it was almost refreshing to see Christians and Muslim conservatives finally find a banner they could rally together under.

[BBT]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">BREAKING: White House official: Trump will not campaign for embattled Alabama Senate candidate Roy Moore before Dec. 12 election.</p>&mdash; The Associated Press (@AP) <a href="https://twitter.com/AP/status/935180740354105351?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 27, 2017</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[Logan]

A woman approached The Post with dramatic — and false — tale about Roy Moore. She appears to be part of undercover sting operation.

By Shawn Boburg, Aaron C. Davis and Alice Crites November 27 at 4:36 PM

A woman who falsely claimed to The Washington Post that Roy Moore, the Republican U.S. Senate candidate in Alabama, impregnated her as a teenager appears to work with an organization that uses deceptive tactics to secretly record conversations in an effort to embarrass its targets.

In a series of interviews over two weeks, the woman shared a dramatic story about an alleged sexual relationship with Moore in 1992 that led to an abortion when she was 15. During the interviews, she repeatedly pressed Post reporters to give their opinions on the effects that her claims could have on Moore’s candidacy if she went public.

The Post did not publish an article based on her unsubstantiated account. When Post reporters confronted her with inconsistencies in her story and an Internet posting that raised doubts about her motivations, she insisted that she was not working with any organization that targets journalists.

But on Monday morning, Post reporters saw her walking into the New York offices of Project Veritas, an organization that targets the mainstream news media and left-leaning groups. The organization sets up undercover “stings” that involve using false cover stories and covert video recordings meant to expose what the group says is media bias.

James O’Keefe, the founder of Project Veritas who was convicted of a misdemeanor in 2010 for using a fake identity to enter a federal building during a previous sting, declined to answer questions about the woman outside the Project Veritas office, a storefront in Mamaroneck, N.Y., on Monday morning shortly after the woman walked inside.

“I am not doing an interview right now, so I’m not going to say a word,” O’Keefe said.

In a follow-up interview, O’Keefe declined to answer repeated questions about whether the woman was employed at Project Veritas. He also did not respond when asked if he was working with Moore, former White House adviser and Moore supporter Stephen K. Bannon, or Republican strategists.

The group’s efforts illustrate the lengths to which activists have gone to try to discredit media outlets for reporting on allegations from multiple women that Moore pursued them when they were teenagers and he was in his early 30s. Moore has denied that he did anything improper.

A spokesman for Moore’s campaign did not immediately respond to a message for comment.

The woman who approached Post reporters, Jaime T. Phillips, did not respond to calls to her cellphone Monday morning. Her car remained in the Project Veritas parking lot for more than an hour.

After Phillips was seen entering the Project Veritas office, The Post made the unusual decision to report her previous off-the-record comments.

“We always honor ‘off-the-record’ agreements when they’re entered into in good faith,” said Martin Baron, The Post’s executive editor. “But this so-called off-the-record conversation was the essence of a scheme to deceive and embarrass us. The intent by Project Veritas clearly was to publicize the conversation if we fell for the trap. Because of our customary journalistic rigor, we weren’t fooled, and we can’t honor an ‘off-the-record’ agreement that was solicited in maliciously bad faith.”

Phillips’s arrival at the Project Veritas office capped a weeks-long effort that began only hours after The Post published an article on Nov. 9 that included allegations that Moore once initiated a sexual encounter with a 14-year-old named Leigh Corfman.

Post reporter Beth Reinhard, who co-wrote the article about Corfman, received a cryptic email early the next morning.

“Roy Moore in Alabama . . . I might know something but I need to keep myself safe. How do we do this?” the apparent tipster wrote under an account with the name “Lindsay James.”

The email’s subject line was “Roy Moore in AL.” The sender’s email address included “rolltide,” the rallying cry of the University of Alabama’s sports teams, which are nicknamed the Crimson Tide.

Reinhard sent an email asking if the person was willing to talk off the record.

“Not sure if I trust the phone,” came the reply. “Can we just stick to email?”

“I need to be confident that you can protect me before I will tell all,” the person wrote in a subsequent email. “I have stuff I’ve been hiding for a long time but maybe it should stay that way.”

The tipster’s email came amid counterattacks by Moore supporters aimed at The Post and its reporters.

That same day, Gateway Pundit, a conservative site, spread a false story from a Twitter account, @umpire43, that said, “A family friend in Alabama just told my wife that a WAPO reporter named Beth offer her 1000$ to accuse Roy Moore.” The Twitter account, which has a history of spreading misinformation, has since been deleted.

The Post, like many other news organizations, has a strict policy against paying people for information and did not do so in its coverage of Moore.

On Nov. 14, a pastor in Alabama said he received a voice mail from a man falsely claiming to be a Post reporter and seeking women “willing to make damaging remarks” about Moore for money. No one associated with The Post made any such call.

In the days that followed the purported tipster’s initial emails, Reinhard communicated with the woman through an encrypted text messaging service and spoke by phone with the person to set up a meeting. When the woman suggested a meeting in New York, Reinhard told her she would have to know more about her story and her background. The woman offered that her real name was Jaime Phillips.

Phillips said she lived in New York but would be in the D.C. area during Thanksgiving week and suggested meeting Tuesday in a shopping mall in Tysons Corner, Va. “I’m planning to do some shopping there so I’ll find a good place to meet before you get there,” Phillips wrote in a message sent via Signal, the encrypted messaging service.

When Reinhard suggested bringing another reporter, Phillips wrote, “I’m not really comfortable with anyone else being there this time.”

Reinhard arrived to find Phillips, wearing a brown leather jacket and with long red hair, already seated in a booth in the restaurant.

The 41-year-old said she had been abused as a child, Reinhard said. Her family had moved often. She said she moved in with an aunt in the Talladega area of Alabama and started attending a church youth group when she met Moore in 1992, the year he became a county judge. She said she was 15. She said they started a “secret” sexual relationship.

“I knew it wasn’t right, but I didn’t care,” she said.

She said that she got pregnant, that Moore talked her into an abortion, and that he drove her to Mississippi to get it.

In the interview, she told Reinhard that she was so upset she couldn’t finish her salad.

Phillips said she had started thinking about coming forward after the allegations about Hollywood film producer Harvey Weinstein surfaced. Then she said she saw the news about Moore flashing across the television screen while in a break room at her job at a company called NFM Lending in Westchester County, N.Y., Reinhard said.

Phillips also repeatedly asked the reporter to guarantee her that Moore would lose the election if she came forward. Reinhard told her in a subsequent text message that she could not predict what the impact would be. Reinhard said she also explained to Phillips that her claims would have to be fact-checked. Additionally, Reinhard asked her for documents that would corroborate or support her story.

Later that day, Phillips told Reinhard that she felt “anxiety & negative energy after our meeting,” text messages show. “You just didn’t convince me that I should come forward,” she wrote.

Reinhard replied, “I’m so sorry but I want to be straight with you about the fact-checking process and the fact that we can’t guarantee what will happen as a result of another story.”

Phillips was not satisfied. On Wednesday, the day before Thanksgiving, she suggested meeting with another Post reporter, Stephanie McCrummen, who co-wrote the initial article about Corfman. “I’d rather go to another paper than talk to you again,” Phillips told Reinhard.

Back at the newsroom, Reinhard became concerned about elements of Phillips’s story. Phillips had said she lived in Alabama only for a summer while a teenager; but the cellphone number Phillips provided had an Alabama area code. Reinhard called NFM Lending in Westchester County, but they said a person named Jaime Phillips did not work there.

Alice Crites, a Post researcher who was looking into Phillips’s background, found the document that strongly reinforced the reporters’ suspicions: a Web page for a fundraising campaign by someone with the same name. It was on the website GoFundMe.com under the name Jaime Phillips.

“I’m moving to New York!” the May 29 appeal said. “I’ve accepted a job to work in the conservative media movement to combat the lies and deceipt of the liberal MSM. I’ll be using my skills as a researcher and fact-checker to help our movement. I was laid off from my mortgage job a few months ago and came across the opportunity to change my career path.”

In a March posting on its Facebook page, Project Veritas said it was seeking 12 new “undercover reporters,” though the organization’s operatives use methods that are eschewed by mainstream journalists, such as misrepresenting themselves.

A posting for the “journalist” job on the Project Veritas website that month warned that the job “is not a role for the faint of heart.”

The job’s listed goal: “To adopt an alias persona, gain access to an identified person of interest and persuade that person to reveal information.”

It also listed tasks that the job applicant should be able to master, including: “Learning a script,” “Preparing a background story to support your role,” “Gaining an appointment or access to the target of the investigation,” and “Operating concealed recording equipment.”

Jaime Phillips is a relatively common name, but there was another telling detail. One of two donations listed on the site was from a name that matched her daughter’s, according to public records.

McCrummen agreed to meet Phillips that afternoon.

Phillips suggested meeting somewhere in Alexandria, Va., saying she was shopping in the area. Post videographers accompanied McCrummen, who brought a printout of the fundraising page to the interview.

Again, Phillips had arrived early and was waiting for McCrummen, her purse resting on the table. When McCrummen put her purse near Phillips’s purse to block a possible camera, Phillips moved hers.

The Post videographers sat separately, unnoticed, at an adjacent table.

Phillips said she didn’t want to get into the details of what she had said happened between her and Moore.

She said she wanted McCrummen to assure her that the article would result in Moore’s defeat, according to a recording. McCrummen instead asked her about her story regarding Moore.

Phillips complained that President Trump had endorsed Moore.

“So my whole things is, like, I want him to be completely taken out of the race . . . ” she said. “And I really expected that was going to happen, and now it’s not. So, I don’t know what you think about that.”

McCrummen asked Phillips to verify her identity with a photo identification. Phillips provided a Georgia driver’s license.

McCrummen then asked her about the GoFundMe page.

“We have a process of doing background, checking backgrounds and this kind of thing, so I wanted to ask you about one thing,” McCrummen said, pulling out a copy of the page and reading from it. “So I just wanted to ask you if you could explain this, and I also wanted to let you know, Jaime, that this is being recorded and video recorded.”

“Okay,” Phillips said. “Um, yeah, I was looking to take a job last summer in New York, but it fell through,” Phillips said. “Yeah, it was going to be with the Daily Caller, but it ended up falling through, so I wasn’t able to do it.”

When asked who at the Daily Caller interviewed her, Phillips said, “Kathy,” pausing before adding the last name, “Johnson.”

Paul Conner, executive editor of the Daily Caller, said Monday that no one with the name Kathy Johnson works for the publication and that he has no record of having personally interviewed Phillips. Conner later said in email that he had asked other top editors at the Daily Caller and the affiliated Daily Caller News Foundation about Phillips.

“None of us has interviewed a woman by the name Jaime Phillips,” Conner wrote.

At the Alexandria restaurant on Wednesday, Phillips also told The Post that she had not been in contact with the Moore campaign. As the interview ended, Phillips told McCrummen she was not recording the conversation.

“I think I probably just want to cancel and not go through with it at this point,” Phillips said at Souvlaki Bar shortly before ending the interview.

“I’m not going to answer any more questions,” she said. “I think I’m just going to go.”

She picked up her coat and bag, returned her drink to the front counter and left the restaurant.

By 7 p.m. the message on the GoFundMe page was gone, replaced by a new one.

“Campaign is complete and no longer active,” it read.

WAPO (https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/a-woman-approached-the-post-with-dramatic--and-false--tale-about-roy-moore-sje-appears-to-be-part-of-undercover-sting-operation/2017/11/27/0c2e335a-cfb6-11e7-9d3a-bcbe2af58c3a_story.html?utm_term=.2ad1f262361e)

[albionmoonlight]

They want the media to be as corrupt as they are so badly . . .

[Shkspr]

Phillips should have gone to Bernie Bernstein. He was shelling out $5000 for info.

[larrymcg421]

I'll take "How to Inadvertently Prove the Original Washington Post Stories Were Accurate for $1000", Alex.

[RainMaker]

It's kind of shocking how much effort there is to helping a pedophile. At first I thought it was just a party line thing but maybe it's deeper. Maybe there are people who really want that behavior to be normalized to a degree.

It's one thing to begrudgingly say you're voting for the guy but shit like that shows incredible effort to try to get him into power.

[Edward64]

It's kind of shocking how much effort there is to helping a pedophile. At first I thought it was just a party line thing but maybe it's deeper. Maybe there are people who really want that behavior to be normalized to a degree.

It's one thing to begrudgingly say you're voting for the guy but shit like that shows incredible effort to try to get him into power.

I think they are giving him the benefit of doubt, especially with all the false news going around, dirty tricks etc.

I really think if there was incontrovertible proof, support would drop quickly. Unfortunately that level of proof probably doesn't exist.

[cuervo72]

"With all the false news going around." Examples?

[BishopMVP]

I think they are giving him the benefit of doubt, especially with all the false news going around, dirty tricks etc.

I really think if there was incontrovertible proof, support would drop quickly. Unfortunately that level of proof probably doesn't exist.Maybe the fake abortion misinformation is real (I'm sure you can find at least one liberal tweet or site that pushed some narrative there, not just the Veritas people trying to use it as a double cross), but I'd say the evidence he was dating high school girls while in his 30's is pretty ironclad. It is Alabama though, so I'm surprised "Hey, 14's a perfectly acceptable age of consent" hasn't been explicitly used yet.

[NobodyHere]

"With all the false news going around." Examples?

Trump's twitter feed?

[Atocep]

I'm surprised "Hey, 14's a perfectly acceptable age of consent" hasn't been explicitly used yet.

It more or less has been

Women supporting Roy Moore not concerned whether he dated teens | AL.com (http://www.al.com/news/index.ssf/2017/11/women_supporting_roy_moore_not.html)

[Edward64]

"With all the false news going around." Examples?

You don't think there are false news going around? Both by Dems and GOP?

[PilotMan]

"With all the false news going around." Examples?

https://www.snopes.com/category/facts/fake-news/

[cuervo72]

Heh, I'm reminded of the old Don Geronimo line - "don't answer a question with a question."

I'm not asking about political spins - I'm asking about "all the false news." As in, the supposition is that mainstream news outlets are making up news. I would like examples to back that claim before we just accept the throwaway "ah, who knows which stories are true or false."

[RainMaker]

Yeah I assumed most of the people in Alabama don't care about the pedophile stuff. I mean it's Alabama and they are where they are for a reason.

I think a lot of the pushback comes from people who realize that it's harder to win elections in purple suburbs when your party just elected a pedophile to office.

The whole thing is weird. Like there were a few weirdos who tried to make excuses for Sandusky and eventually Paterno, but they were just written off as quacks. Kind of surprised at the effort going into this and just wondering if it might have more to do with a group of people who wouldn't mind this stuff being legal.

[Edward64]

I just thought it curious you asked the question and maybe I missed a nuance.

I guess it depends on what you call mainstream media. How about Fox News and Hannity?

[cuervo72]

I ask the question because there seems to be a substantial number of people these days wanting to discard any inconvenient information by simply throwing out the term "fake news!" like it's some instant argument winner, which is obviously encouraged by the current administration. I'll maintain confidence of news sources if I'm not shown actual examples that prove otherwise. Not stories that may be perceived as supporting one bias or another, but are either lacking in facts, deliberately misleading, or are outright untruths.

As for Hannity, he's not "news." He's opinion. Even he'll tell you he's not a journalist. The Chris Wallace side of the organization, that's under the "news" umbrella. I can't say that they air false accounts, though I don't tune in very much because they do seem somewhat selective about what stories they choose to pursue.

[Edward64]

Okay, I see nuance is "news" vs "opinion". I didn't catch that.

[cuervo72]

So then is your definition of "all the false news" referring to something other than actual news, or are you dodging coming up with concrete examples?

[Edward64]

I actually thought I came up with a pretty good example. You can nuance it all you want but many fans would consider Hannity as reporting "news" as well as "opinion".

The standard that you want e.g. "real news" is a really high bar nowadays. Good to shoot for but the Cronkite, Rather et al days are over.

[bhlloy]

So there’s no such thing as real news any more, but you can’t believe anything unless it’s real news? Quite a nice get out clause strawman you have created for yourself there.

BTW there’s plenty of real news still out there. Start with the BBC, for one.

[cuervo72]

So supporters of the Republican Roy Moore are giving him the benefit of the doubt because of the prevalence of false news stories that are being circulated by questionable news sources like Sean Hannity.

Where is that floating pondering emoji gif?

[Edward64]

I think its a stretch to conclude that I said there is no real news anymore. I was asked for examples of fake news and I presented Hannity and said many consider him "news".

[RainMaker]

I missed it but what example are you using?

I think there is a bias in media but I don't think they are making up stories. I think it's just they'll cover negative stories on one side more than the other side. That doesn't make it fake news though.

[Edward64]

So supporters of the Republican Roy Moore are giving him the benefit of the doubt because of the prevalence of false news stories that are being circulated by questionable news sources like Sean Hannity.

Where is that floating pondering emoji gif?

I like the definite conclusion you have drawn from my prior statements. Not sure I would agree with it but must be true I guess.

[Edward64]

I missed it but what example are you using?

I think there is a bias in media but I don't think they are making up stories. I think it's just they'll cover negative stories on one side more than the other side. That doesn't make it fake news though.

My original statement in response to you is below. Note that I did not just attribute it to fake news.


Quote:
Originally Posted by RainMaker View Post
It's kind of shocking how much effort there is to helping a pedophile. At first I thought it was just a party line thing but maybe it's deeper. Maybe there are people who really want that behavior to be normalized to a degree.

It's one thing to begrudgingly say you're voting for the guy but shit like that shows incredible effort to try to get him into power.

I think they are giving him the benefit of doubt, especially with all the false news going around, dirty tricks etc.

I really think if there was incontrovertible proof, support would drop quickly. Unfortunately that level of proof probably doesn't exist.

[cuervo72]

I think they are giving him the benefit of doubt, especially with all the false news going around, dirty tricks etc.

I really think if there was incontrovertible proof, support would drop quickly. Unfortunately that level of proof probably doesn't exist.

"With all the false news going around." Examples?

You don't think there are false news going around? Both by Dems and GOP?

Heh, I'm reminded of the old Don Geronimo line - "don't answer a question with a question."

I'm not asking about political spins - I'm asking about "all the false news." As in, the supposition is that mainstream news outlets are making up news. I would like examples to back that claim before we just accept the throwaway "ah, who knows which stories are true or false."

I just thought it curious you asked the question and maybe I missed a nuance.

I guess it depends on what you call mainstream media. How about Fox News and Hannity?

I ask the question because there seems to be a substantial number of people these days wanting to discard any inconvenient information by simply throwing out the term "fake news!" like it's some instant argument winner, which is obviously encouraged by the current administration. I'll maintain confidence of news sources if I'm not shown actual examples that prove otherwise. Not stories that may be perceived as supporting one bias or another, but are either lacking in facts, deliberately misleading, or are outright untruths.

As for Hannity, he's not "news." He's opinion. Even he'll tell you he's not a journalist. The Chris Wallace side of the organization, that's under the "news" umbrella. I can't say that they air false accounts, though I don't tune in very much because they do seem somewhat selective about what stories they choose to pursue.

Okay, I see nuance is "news" vs "opinion". I didn't catch that.

So then is your definition of "all the false news" referring to something other than actual news, or are you dodging coming up with concrete examples?

I actually thought I came up with a pretty good example. You can nuance it all you want but many fans would consider Hannity as reporting "news" as well as "opinion".

The standard that you want e.g. "real news" is a really high bar nowadays. Good to shoot for but the Cronkite, Rather et al days are over.

So supporters of the Republican Roy Moore are giving him the benefit of the doubt because of the prevalence of false news stories that are being circulated by questionable news sources like Sean Hannity.

Where is that floating pondering emoji gif?

I think its a stretch to conclude that I said there is no real news anymore. I was asked for examples of fake news and I presented Hannity and said many consider him "news".

I like the definite conclusion you have drawn from my prior statements. Not sure I would agree with it but must be true I guess.

Again...you know, never mind. I'm either not going to get through or you don't want me to.

[PilotMan]

It isn't hard to verify actual, real news. It just takes a little bit of reading and cross checking from a couple of sources. The story filters out the more you read and the more you read the easier it is to pick out the complete and utter bullshit, that comes from one side or the other. Trump is so close to shilling for RT over CNN he may need to register as a foreign agent in the US.

[Edward64]

Again...you know, never mind. I'm either not going to get through or you don't want me to.

Great summary.

[BishopMVP]

My original statement in response to you is below. Note that I did not just attribute it to fake news.I think they are giving him the benefit of doubt, especially with all the false news going around, dirty tricks etc.

I really think if there was incontrovertible proof, support would drop quickly. Unfortunately that level of proof probably doesn't exist.Okay, let's rewind this. Do you not think there's enough evidence he dated teenagers when he was in his 30's at a minimum? If your argument is that dating 17 year olds was okay, and there's no proof he knew some were 15, I guess there's an argument in there, but is that your argument? Or has Chappelle's R Kelly court skit come to life & people need to see his grandmother giving a deposition before they'll agree that Roy Moore is at the least a very creepy man in his personal life, regardless of your thoughts on his politics?

[digamma]

To be fair, I don't think Edward gave his own belief about Moore. He stated (incorrectly) that he thinks people are just giving Ol' Roy the benefit of the doubt, rather than the truth that Roy could be doing all of this on Toomer's Corner in broad daylight and it wouldn't matter to his supporters.

[Edward64]

To be fair, I don't think Edward gave his own belief about Moore. He stated (incorrectly) that he thinks people are just giving Ol' Roy the benefit of the doubt, rather than the truth that Roy could be doing all of this on Toomer's Corner in broad daylight and it wouldn't matter to his supporters.

Fair summary.

I think others were jumping to conclusions that I didn't think I stated or supported.

[AENeuman]

It's kind of shocking how much effort there is to helping a pedophile. At first I thought it was just a party line thing but maybe it's deeper. Maybe there are people who really want that behavior to be normalized to a degree.

It's one thing to begrudgingly say you're voting for the guy but shit like that shows incredible effort to try to get him into power.

I just don’t think we are anywhere near taking serious “the women.” 2 of last 4 presidents had slam dunk cases against them and their popularity continued.
Harassment against women/girls seems to be a scandal somewhere above a dui but bellow pay to play.

[bronconick]

It's kind of shocking how much effort there is to helping a pedophile. At first I thought it was just a party line thing but maybe it's deeper. Maybe there are people who really want that behavior to be normalized to a degree.

It's one thing to begrudgingly say you're voting for the guy but shit like that shows incredible effort to try to get him into power.


It's all about the GOP getting their next round of plundering the treasury "ie tax reform" while they can. They can't lose a blood red senate seat at 52-48 so it means voting for someone who wants to nail 13 year olds.

[cuervo72]

To be fair, I don't think Edward gave his own belief about Moore.

Fair enough. I jumped to the apparently incorrect conclusion that Edward himself questioned the legitimacy of traditional media outlets. Mea culpa.

[BishopMVP]

To be fair, I don't think Edward gave his own belief about Moore. He stated (incorrectly) that he thinks people are just giving Ol' Roy the benefit of the doubt, rather than the truth that Roy could be doing all of this on Toomer's Corner in broad daylight and it wouldn't matter to his supporters. Fair summary.

I think others were jumping to conclusions that I didn't think I stated or supported.Fair enough, but I'll still disagree with that supposition and agree with Digamma here. Again I'm certain Fake Newz as a rationale is out there on blogs or Twitter, but we've seen so many different examples of people in Alabama justifying it in this thread alone.

[Izulde]

FWIW, the age of consent in Alabama is 16 for an over 16 partner (though I think it used to be 14). There's a modicum of potential flexibility within a two year age gap, but that only starts when the younger partner is over 12. There's been some discussion the last few years over whether to raise the AOC to 18.

The general trend over the past 20-30 years has been to raise the age when there's a change, with the exception of modifications that decriminalize within a certain age range (with a cap of anywhere from 2-4 years).

[Ben E Lou]

While I disagree with their logic--because I believe that God is bigger than politics/power--I do get where they're coming from. Perhaps this help left-leaning folks put themselves into the shoes of these voters.

What if the race were Ted Cruz vs. Harvey Weinstein?

[Butter]

While I disagree with their logic--because I believe that God is bigger than politics/power--I do get where they're coming from. Perhaps this help left-leaning folks put themselves into the shoes of these voters.

What if the race were Ted Cruz vs. Harvey Weinstein?

I really have taken a lot of time to think about this, especially after seeing the headline quote from the one voter who said it is a pedophile vs. someone who believes in abortion.

For someone who believes that abortion is akin to a holocaust, how can you ever justify voting for that? And while I am not religious, I am not dismissive of those who are and have a respect for their belief. It's just not my belief.

My answer is a cop-out... I don't know what I would do. Possibly abstain. But I can definitely see the dilemma that people are in.

I think at the end of the day, it is the reason behind people being against the "abortionist" that I have a problem with. If anything, I believe abortion rates are at their lowest of all time, or at least since Roe, right now. Why is that? Maybe getting at that reason is an answer.

[miked]

Once again, for a bunch of people who want to end abortions, they continually defund and ignore the root causes, which is family planning in all stages. Increase funding for IUDs, heck, pay for them in most places. Decrease the regulations and costs of adoption that can exceed $50k and prevent worthy couples, allow gay couples to adopt, etc. Abortion is a great rallying cry and really helps bring out the voters on the fence, but if you are voting for an R because they want to ban abortions, you are doing it wrong.

[JPhillips]

While I disagree with their logic--because I believe that God is bigger than politics/power--I do get where they're coming from. Perhaps this help left-leaning folks put themselves into the shoes of these voters.

What if the race were Ted Cruz vs. Harvey Weinstein?

I'd hope I would condemn them both and refuse to affirm an evil by voting for either of them. What I wouldn't do is support Weinstein vociferously and call all his accusers liars.

I don't have a problem with people torn by their personal political beliefs, but I have a great problem with those willing to excuse behavior that is reprehensible.

[JPhillips]

dola

If this isn't enough evidence, a person just isn't willing to see what's in front of their nose.

. The accusers. Moore portrayed his first four accusers as pawns of the Washington Post, which reported their allegations. Since then, five more women have come forward, mostly speaking to outlets other than the Post. With one exception, the nine women don’t know one another. They’ve given their names and answered hard questions, in some cases on live TV, while Moore has stiff-armed reporters. Each woman has told only her own story, but there are hints that they’re just the tip of the iceberg. One recalls Moore telling her, “I go out with girls your age all the time.” Two of the women say they supported Trump. Another says she’s a Republican. A fourth calls herself a devout Christian. Yet Moore and his allies continue to dismiss all the allegations as a liberal plot.

2. Supporting witnesses. One accuser, Leigh Corfman, says Moore seduced her when she was 14. Moore says he never met her, but Corfman’s mother says she was present when the two met. Another accuser, Wendy Miller, says Moore flirted with her when she was 14 and asked her out at 16. Her mother, too, confirms the story, saying she told Moore he was too old to date her daughter. Kayla McLaughlin, who worked at a mall store with a third accuser, Gena Richardson, says she saw Moore pursue Richardson. Two other accusers, Beverly Nelson and Tina Johnson, told their sisters about Moore years ago. The idea that all these girls, their mothers, their sisters, and their friends began coordinating a massive lie decades ago—and somehow conspired to keep it quiet through Moore’s many previous political campaigns, saving it for a special Senate election in 2017—is completely preposterous. And that’s before we get to the many other people in Moore’s town, including a colleague in the district attorney’s office, who have broadly described, in some cases firsthand, how Moore fished for teenagers.

3. Documents. A February 1979 court order supports Corfman’s contention that she was down the hall from Moore’s office on the day she says they met. Moore’s campaign says Corfman’s story about where Moore picked her up for dates can’t be true because she didn’t live where she claims to have lived. But an old police report confirms that she did. (When the Post asked the Moore campaign to document its counterclaim that Corfman lived a mile away, the campaign replied: “We will not respond to anyone from the Post.”) Another court record shows that Johnson was a client of Moore in 1991, when she says he groped her.

Moore’s campaign has attacked Nelson’s story that he assaulted her 40 years ago outside a restaurant. The campaign has questioned whether the restaurant existed there at the time, and Moore’s wife has promoted claims that it didn’t. A 1978 city directory confirms that it did. Moore has also denied allegations by Corfman and another woman, Gloria Deason, that he gave them alcohol when they were underage. Moore says he couldn’t have done that, because the county didn’t permit alcohol sales at the time. This, too, is false: The county had legalized alcohol sales several years earlier, and the restaurant where Deason says Moore ordered bottles of Rose confirms that it served booze.

4. The yearbook. Moore says he never met Nelson. That leaves him to explain why she has a 1977 high-school yearbook bearing the inscription: “To a sweeter more beautiful girl, I could not say ‘Merry Christmas.’ Christmas, 1977, Love, Roy Moore.” Moore points out that Nelson, too, has something to explain: Why, he asks, are the exact date and place where he ostensibly signed the yearbook written below his name “in a style inconsistent with the rest of the yearbook inscription”? That’s a good question. It’s possible that somebody else appended those details. But what’s striking is that Moore doesn’t challenge the inscription itself. He can’t dispute that it bears an uncanny resemblance to his handwriting on other documents. An expert consulted by the Post observes that the script flows without interruption, which would be hard for a forger to do.

At a Nov. 15 press conference, Phillip Jauregui, an attorney for Moore, questioned whether “everything written in that yearbook was written by Roy Moore.” That sounds like an implicit acknowledgment that part of it was. (Nelson’s attorney, Gloria Allred, says she’ll hand over the yearbook if Moore agrees to testify, along with Nelson, under oath. Moore hasn’t accepted the challenge.) It’s also curious that Moore’s campaign, which has dug up old documents bearing his signature, has yet to produce any that don’t match Nelson’s inscription. And the yearbook itself nails down that the inscription was written in late 1977, when Moore was 30 and Nelson had just turned 16. So even if you discount the appended text, we’re left with Moore’s note to a “beautiful girl” half his age, whom he claims he never knew.

5. Confessions. Moore says he first noticed Kayla Kisor, the girl who would become his wife, when she performed at a dance recital at age 15 or 16. That would be around 1977, the same year that three of his accusers, who were roughly the same age as Kisor, say he pursued them. In fact, Nelson was in Kisor’s high-school class. And though Moore told Hannity he did “not generally” date teenagers while in his 30s, he also denied “dating any girl without the permission of her mother,” which suggests that the girls were young. That fits the story told by Wendy Miller’s mother, who says she rejected Moore’s request to date her 16-year-old daughter.


http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2017/11/the_sham_defense_of_roy_moore.html

[Ben E Lou]

I don't have a problem with people torn by their personal political beliefs, but I have a great problem with those willing to excuse behavior that is reprehensible.At least in some cases, I strongly suspect that the latter is a result of the former. They can't admit--even to themselves--that they consider a child molester to be a better option than a decent person with whom they disagree, so they are desperately trying to justify their vote.

[Autumn]

If someone accuses you of attempting to molest them behind a restaurant and your counterargument is that the restaurant didn't exist, I think that's a bad sign.

It is unfortunate that we live in a world which apparently requires video footage to believe a rape accusation. A world where people think so poorly of each other that they find it likely a woman would false accuse someone of molesting her. But a world where people cling to politics so tightly that they find it unlikely that someone on their side could ever be wrong. In truth, the police brutality issues of the past few years have demonstrated that even video footage woudln't move the needle for some people. It seems we're destined to be a country of two sides, where no matter how awful something is it doesn't count if it's on your side.

[cuervo72]

Once again, for a bunch of people who want to end abortions, they continually defund and ignore the root causes, which is family planning in all stages. Increase funding for IUDs, heck, pay for them in most places. Decrease the regulations and costs of adoption that can exceed $50k and prevent worthy couples, allow gay couples to adopt, etc. Abortion is a great rallying cry and really helps bring out the voters on the fence, but if you are voting for an R because they want to ban abortions, you are doing it wrong.

I'll say it again - they want to stop people from having sex. Abortion takes away their punishment (now that most sodomy laws are off the books or unenforced). Baby as albatross, if you will.

edit: sorry, women from having sex (big difference)

[JPhillips]

At least in some cases, I strongly suspect that the latter is a result of the former. They can't admit--even to themselves--that they consider a child molester to be a better option than a decent person with whom they disagree, so they are desperately trying to justify their vote.

I'd agree with that, but it doesn't change my opinion of people that make that choice.

[Marc Vaughan]

While I disagree with their logic--because I believe that God is bigger than politics/power--I do get where they're coming from. Perhaps this help left-leaning folks put themselves into the shoes of these voters.

What if the race were Ted Cruz vs. Harvey Weinstein?

Then I'd vote for an independent candidate or abstain. I detest Cruz but I wouldn't for some Weinstein out of principle.

[Edward64]

While I disagree with their logic--because I believe that God is bigger than politics/power--I do get where they're coming from. Perhaps this help left-leaning folks put themselves into the shoes of these voters.

What if the race were Ted Cruz vs. Harvey Weinstein?

Assuming one can't abstain, write-in etc. and had to pick one or the other, I would select based on criteria most important to me (e.g. lesser of 2 evils, who could best look after the country, who would benefit me most or hurt me less etc.)

I don't really know what the criteria are and how to weight them in the decision making process, but some sort of framework thinking thru the process is needed.

[SackAttack]

Once again, for a bunch of people who want to end abortions, they continually defund and ignore the root causes, which is family planning in all stages. Increase funding for IUDs, heck, pay for them in most places. Decrease the regulations and costs of adoption that can exceed $50k and prevent worthy couples, allow gay couples to adopt, etc. Abortion is a great rallying cry and really helps bring out the voters on the fence, but if you are voting for an R because they want to ban abortions, you are doing it wrong.

So much this.

I'm pro-life. Somebody who says "a vote for me is a vote to ban abortions" is somebody I'm going to look at and say "You are seriously lacking in critical thinking skills; I'm going to go check out your opponent."

It's easy to say "ban the thing I don't like." It's much harder to say "build a society where people don't feel the need to do the thing I don't like" and still keep sufficient voter interest to get re-elected ad infinitum.

[SackAttack]

Then I'd vote for an independent candidate or abstain. I detest Cruz but I wouldn't for some Weinstein out of principle.

The hell of it is, this isn't an either/or proposition.

Alabama voters aren't faced with "the pedophile or the Democrat?"

They have a Republican Senator - one who received Trump's endorsement in the primary, no less - *right there* for the electin'. All they gotta do is write his name in. Alabama elections are remarkably open to write-ins.

Strange isn't running a write-in campaign, but there is precisely zero stopping Alabama's Republican leadership from saying "look, this guy is a scumbag, but we daren't lose this seat to a Democrat; write in Luther Strange for Senator next month" and blast that message often and loudly.

Jones' strategy is going to be predicated on hoping that Republicans (and especially Republican women) are so uncomfortable with Moore that they cross over to vote for him - that they react "favorably" to "the pedophile or the Democrat?"

Moore's strategy is basically the same, but reversed - play on anti-Democratic sentiment in the state such that people go "well, shit, he's a kiddie-diddler wanna-be, but I can't vote for the *Democrat*."

In the meantime...there's Luther Strange. No pedophilia allegations, a reliable vote for the Republican agenda...and the added bonus that if he declines to be seated, the Republican AL governor can appoint a Republican to the seat and nobody has to vote for a pedophile to make it happen.

So in that context, "Cruz or Weinstein?" is a disingenuous question. Because all else being equal, it wouldn't *be* Cruz or Weinstein. It would be, like, Cruz or Weinstein with a reliable Democrat keeping the seat warm, eligible to be written in, who doesn't have a history of sexual misconduct.

[Shkspr]

Strange or another safe (R) isn't a viable write-in vote unless Moore declares himself out. Even if all sane (R)s choose to write in Strange and disavow Moore, the crazies will still throw about a quarter of the general to Moore, and Jones was still getting 42% before the allegations against Moore surfaced. A write-in Strange takes no more than a third of the ballot.

[RainMaker]

https://thinkprogress.org/moore-study-course-vison-forum-135402ed8816/

[cuervo72]

Roy Moore Spokeswoman to CNN Host: Doug Jones Wants to Kill Your Unborn Kid (https://www.thedailybeast.com/roy-moore-spokeswoman-to-cnn-host-doug-jones-wants-to-kill-your-unborn-kid)

Yes, this is exactly the right characterization of the pro-choice stance!



/s

[CrimsonFox]

Roy Moore Spokeswoman to CNN Host: Doug Jones Wants to Kill Your Unborn Kid (https://www.thedailybeast.com/roy-moore-spokeswoman-to-cnn-host-doug-jones-wants-to-kill-your-unborn-kid)



/s

on the other hand. Roy Moore just wants to do squishy things with it

[Kodos]

.

[RainMaker]

https://www.theonion.com/alabama-forced-to-release-thousands-of-sex-offenders-af-1821015675

[mckerney]

A Second Chance: This Amazing Organization Helps Disgraced Pedophiles Rebuild Their Lives By Getting Them Elected To Political Office (http://www.clickhole.com/article/second-chance-amazing-organization-helps-disgraced-7104)

For many pedophiles, it’s impossible to make ends meet. These sex criminals are often shunned both socially and professionally, making it extremely difficult for them to find any sort of gainful employment. But now a group called the GOP is trying to change all that: This amazing organization helps disgraced pedophiles rebuild their lives by getting them elected to political office.

If that doesn’t lift your spirits, we don’t know what will.

[Toddzilla]

Someone should tell Roy Moore that the National Mall isn't a actual mall and maybe he'll lose interest and drop out.


/ba-dummp tishhhh

[JPhillips]

This is from September, but yikes:

In response to a question from one of the only African Americans in the audience — who asked when Moore thought America was last “great” -- Moore acknowledged the nation’s history of racial divisions, but said: “I think it was great at the time when families were united -- even though we had slavery -- they cared for one another…. Our families were strong, our country had a direction.”

[miami_fan]

This guy. Always bringing race and slavery into the conversation.

[mckerney]

This is from September, but yikes:

Fits in with comments from last month saying today's problems can be traced back to new rights being created in 1965.

[JPhillips]

In 2011 Moore said on a radio show that scrapping all the amendments after the 10th would, "eliminate many problems."

[Maple Leafs]

In 2011 Moore said on a radio show that scrapping all the amendments after the 10th would, "eliminate many problems."
As someone said on Twitter: At least we found a few teens that Roy Moore won't follow.

[Jas_lov]

Fox News came out with a poll today that has Jones up 10 but another poll by Emerson has Moore up 9. Pretty big gap there. Maybe Jones has a chance as undecideds choose him over an embarrassment for their state.

[JPhillips]

I saw a chart where a pollster had run varying turnout models and had gotten anywhere from Jones +8 to Moore +9. Nobody has any idea of turnout because there aren't any historical similarities to fall back on.

[albionmoonlight]

Fox News came out with a poll today that has Jones up 10 but another poll by Emerson has Moore up 9. Pretty big gap there. Maybe Jones has a chance as undecideds choose him over an embarrassment for their state.

So many variables here.

Alabama is a non-competitive state generally, so it isn't a place like Florida or Ohio where pollsters have a good sense of turnout patterns.

It's a special election.

It's near Christmas.

One of the candidates is credibly accused of sexual misconduct with teenagers. But the state has a huge partisan lean in his direction.

The election potentially has large national consequences.

Pollsters are making their best guesses, but I don't see how anyone can legitimately say that the race is anything other than highly uncertain.

[bhlloy]

I’m sure that’s not an attempt by Fox to galvanize support and give something for Moore’s supporters to rally around.

He’s going to cruise to victory, we will use this as another data point about how bad the polls suck, CNN and MSNBC will ride the outrage for a few days and we won’t hear a squeak from McConnell and the R establishment because they will be too grateful to have a new toy that will vote however they want. Then a few days after that the rest of the media will move on to the next story that will generate some clicks.

[Atocep]

Alabama has prospered so much I can understand why they keep voting republican.

[Kodos]

Alabama has prospered so much I can understand why they keep voting republican.

Reminds me of something that was posted on Facebook this morning.

Alabama Has the Worst Poverty in the Developed World, U.N. Official Says (http://www.newsweek.com/alabama-un-poverty-environmental-racism-743601)

[EagleFan]

I’m sure that’s not an attempt by Fox to galvanize support and give something for Moore’s supporters to rally around.

My thoughts exactly. It's their version of a rebel yell, get the inbreds running to the voting booth.

[mckerney]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Speaker at Moore event says he accidentally went with Moore to a brothel with child prostitutes <a href="https://t.co/8OTq9V1JQt">https://t.co/8OTq9V1JQt</a> <a href="https://t.co/g6JZoUpxjl">pic.twitter.com/g6JZoUpxjl</a></p>&mdash; ThinkProgress (@thinkprogress) <a href="https://twitter.com/thinkprogress/status/940418385304784897?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 12, 2017</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Nope, definitely didn't expect this to get any weirder...

[JPhillips]

And his wife made clear that they aren't anti-Jew because their lawyer is a Jew.

[MrBug708]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Speaker at Moore event says he accidentally went with Moore to a brothel with child prostitutes <a href="https://t.co/8OTq9V1JQt">https://t.co/8OTq9V1JQt</a> <a href="https://t.co/g6JZoUpxjl">pic.twitter.com/g6JZoUpxjl</a></p>&mdash; ThinkProgress (@thinkprogress) <a href="https://twitter.com/thinkprogress/status/940418385304784897?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 12, 2017</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Nope, definitely didn't expect this to get any weirder...

Weird story to bring up in light of everything, but certainly a misleading title to the story.

[RainMaker]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">EXIT POLL: 57% say their vote wasn’t influenced by Roy Moore using a cowboy hat to cover his erection throughout his “children are our future” speech</p>&mdash; Pixelated Ho Ho Hoat (@pixelatedboat) <a href="https://twitter.com/pixelatedboat/status/940753299501932544?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 13, 2017</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[Thomkal]

Good place to see the election results:

http://www.cnn.com/election/2017/results/alabama-senate?q=2017embed

[Jas_lov]

Looks like it's going to be close but Jones has been surging on Predictit.

[larrymcg421]

Started off good for Jones, then swung back towards Moore, and now looking really good for Jones (based on benchmarks, not raw totals). PredictIt is chaos right now.

[Atocep]

Started off good for Jones, then swung back towards Moore, and now looking really good for Jones (based on benchmarks, not raw totals). PredictIt is chaos right now.

Looks like Moore is hitting his benchmarks as far as percentage of vote goes, but turnout is way under what was expected in his areas. Jones is right at to under his benchmarks but turnout in his areas is much higher than expected.

[Jas_lov]

A lot of the vote in red counties is in but heavy blue areas like Birmingham, Montgomery and Mobile haven't reported much yet. Predictit has swung back to Jones.

[RainMaker]

I think Moore will win mainly because it's still Alabama at the end of the day. They aren't voting in a Democrat.

[cuervo72]

Man, CNN can't even get a hold of a picture of Bob Vance.

[JPhillips]

https://img.buzzfeed.com/buzzfeed-static/static/2017-07/7/8/campaign_images/buzzfeed-prod-fastlane-02/this-theory-about-bob-vance-on-the-office-makes-s-2-21843-1499430265-0_dblbig.jpg

[tarcone]

I think Moore will win mainly because it's still Alabama at the end of the day. They aren't voting in a Democrat.

Well, when the normal practice is marrying your 14 year old cousin..........

[Jas_lov]

Fox News calls it for Jones

[kingfc22]

FUCK YOU TRUMP!!!

[RainMaker]

Unbelievable.

[CrimsonFox]

WOW you guys had me thinking Moore won

Alabama Election Results: Doug Jones Defeats Roy Moore in U.S. Senate Race – Election Results 2017 – The New York Times (https://www.nytimes.com/elections/results/alabama-senate-special-election-roy-moore-doug-jones)

[EagleFan]

There is hope.

[thesloppy]

The live Roy Moore party stream is some top-level Schadenfreude:

Roy Moore holds election night watch party in Montgomery, AL| Latest News Videos | Fox News (http://video.foxnews.com/v/5678314738001/?#sp=watch-live)

[Thomkal]

Voter Fraud accusations in 3...2..1...

[CrimsonFox]

In celebration of his win, Doug Jones hired a meteor storm for Wednesday.
Myself I'm having a root canal.

[ISiddiqui]

I can't fucking believe it!! Fantastic result for the new Senator Jones!

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

[CrimsonFox]

It's a good thing they got Franken run out on a rail just in time. Sure is.

[bhlloy]

Never been so happy to be wrong.

Investigation into mail voting fraud being announced by the White House in 3...2...1....

[bhlloy]

Voter Fraud accusations in 3...2..1...

Touche :D

[JPhillips]

Pretty impressive that Trump managed to lose twice in Alabama.

[bbgunn]

As a native Alabamian, I'm in utter shock, because I never thought I'd see Roy Moore lose an election there. I'm very happy, though; good riddance, Roy Moore.

It's just sad that it took sexual harassment and pedophilia to sink him in the end. He should have been unelectable from the giddy-up.

[Kodos]

Holy crap. Way to go, Bama!

[Honolulu_Blue]

Yes!!!!

[Shkspr]

Voter Fraud accusations in 3...2..1...

Exactly. This is why Trump hired Kris Kobach, and they're going to try to get their money's worth out of him.

[ntndeacon]

I'm really happy about this. It will be a while before Moore concedes. And if it is within one half percent, there is an automatic recount.

[RainMaker]

In a weird way I think it would have been better for the Democrats to lose the race. They could constantly point at Moore while campaigning in states like Virginia.

I wonder how much Shelby refusing to vote for Moore played a role in the result. Kind of a ballsy move by him.

[Thomkal]

Touche :D

Heh :) I didn't read the full article in the Guardian, but it looks like the votes will either be destroyed after the vote or not otherwise recounted:

Alabama court gives last-minute order that could impede recount procedure | US news | The Guardian (https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/dec/12/alabama-court-gives-last-minute-order-that-could-impede-recount-procedure)

[Jas_lov]

I think Dems would rather take the Senate and this gives them a better chance by holding their incumbents and flipping Nevada and Arizona. They can just run against Trump, who had 47-48 favorable-unfavorable in Alabama exit polls tonight.

[Thomkal]

Trump's tweet on the election results:

Congratulations to Doug Jones on a hard fought victory. The write-in votes played a very big factor, but a win is a win. The people of Alabama are great, and the Republicans will have another shot at this seat in a very short period of time. It never ends!

[BYU 14]

Sanity slowly creeping back into the world, well done Bama!

[kingfc22]

Trump's tweet on the election results:

Congratulations to Doug Jones on a hard fought victory. The write-in votes played a very big factor, but a win is a win. The people of Alabama are great, and the Republicans will have another shot at this seat in a very short period of time. It never ends!

Clearly written by a staffer. Let’s see what his twitter account spits out tomorrow when he’s on the shitter in the morning.

[mckerney]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">I hope Roy Moore's defeat is a lesson to all Republicans that no matter how many kids you fuck NEVER admit to having a jew lawyer</p>&mdash; Matt Oswalt (@MattOswaltVA) <a href="https://twitter.com/MattOswaltVA/status/940786882492825600?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 13, 2017</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[Ben E Lou]

I literally laughed out loud at 6:25 AM reading this gem.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">The reason I originally endorsed Luther Strange (and his numbers went up mightily), is that I said Roy Moore will not be able to win the General Election. I was right! Roy worked hard but the deck was stacked against him!</p>&mdash; Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) <a href="https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/940904649728708609?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 13, 2017</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[PilotMan]

Trump, demanding loyalty and giving none, unless it benefits him.

[Butter]

Trump, demanding loyalty and giving none, unless it benefits him.

The only reason he's not gone is because the GOP realizes this is their chance to push through any and all draconian measures that they can for the next year. They would've sold him down the river long ago if there was a tangible benefit to doing so, but they know that they are well and truly fucked in the midterm, so better get while the gettin's good.

Tax cuts for the rich. Net neutrality. Anti-gay and anti-abortion laws of all sorts. Maybe even Medicare and Social Security cuts. It's all on the table. Making America Great Again... for the wealthy and powerful. But you know, for straight white people too.

[SackAttack]

I literally laughed out loud at 6:25 AM reading this gem.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">The reason I originally endorsed Luther Strange (and his numbers went up mightily), is that I said Roy Moore will not be able to win the General Election. I was right! Roy worked hard but the deck was stacked against him!</p>&mdash; Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) <a href="https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/940904649728708609?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 13, 2017</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

I mean this is literally what I expected Trump to say when the allegations first came out, or something like it.

"I told you so. You should have voted for Luther Strange. Now write him in and MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN"

But he never did that. He endorsed Roy Moore instead and called his accusers liars, and waited until after the election to play the "told you so" card. I was baffled that it took this long.

[Atocep]

I mean this is literally what I expected Trump to say when the allegations first came out, or something like it.

"I told you so. You should have voted for Luther Strange. Now write him in and MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN"

But he never did that. He endorsed Roy Moore instead and called his accusers liars, and waited until after the election to play the "told you so" card. I was baffled that it took this long.

What's funny is the late swing to Jones was likely because of Trump's endorsement and campaigning for Moore.

[Atocep]

In a weird way I think it would have been better for the Democrats to lose the race. They could constantly point at Moore while campaigning in states like Virginia.

I wonder how much Shelby refusing to vote for Moore played a role in the result. Kind of a ballsy move by him.

I don't think it would have been better in any way. This is a nightmare for Republicans as it gives hope in just about any state if you can get the turnout. Dems can still campaign on the fact that a large number of Republicans, including the president, backed a pedophile.