Soccer Thread 2022-2023

[Solecismic]

If England beats the USA, England will need just a scoreless draw against Wales to win the group, whilst in that scenario if Wales has already beaten Iran, Wales will need just a scoreless draw against England to take second place, regardless of what the USA does to Iran. It probably didn't cross their (Wales') minds during the game, but that's a possible scenario.

When the score was even, Wales seemed completely uninterested in the opposing goal. I'm sure their porpoise from the opening moment of the match was to gain that draw for exactly that reason.

Not sure England will cooperate. They have a lot of weapons and a major inferiority complex when it comes to international play. Ninety minutes is a long time, even sitting down. Either way, I doubt the second-place team gets past the round of 16.

Certainly hate that new tie-breaker. The sport already suffers from far too much necessary dependence on the referees. They have an impossible job. Why add another layer of dependence?

[MIJB#19]

When the score was even, Wales seemed completely uninterested in the opposing goal. I'm sure their porpoise from the opening moment of the match was to gain that draw for exactly that reason.

Not sure England will cooperate. They have a lot of weapons and a major inferiority complex when it comes to international play. Ninety minutes is a long time, even sitting down. Either way, I doubt the second-place team gets past the round of 16.Maybe that was their goal all along. Although it's a clear mistake to underestimate Iran and think they'll be a pushover. It's quite likely Wales was just being the Wales team from the recent European Championships: just playing not to lose, regardless the opponent.

Certainly hate that new tie-breaker. The sport already suffers from far too much necessary dependence on the referees. They have an impossible job. Why add another layer of dependence?It's not brand new, it was introduced at the World Cup 2018 as the last tie-breaker before drawing of lots (I just looked at the regulations for the 2014 and 2018 tournaments to confirm this). It was also in place during the UEFA European Championships 2020/2021, as the next to last tie-breaker. But it is indeed a somewhat recent novelty. If it was introduced as a means to promote fair play, it sounds great, but the Neymar jrs. of this world are disgusting abusers of this rule and try to smear half a dozen yellow cards onto their opponents.

[miami_fan]

Pulisic dominates games for a while - he created the goal and Weah, for a shocking change given the US lately, put it away deftly. And then for long, long periods of time (the entire second half) all he seems to do is lie on the ground and gesture at the referee. If he wasn't such a poor sport, he might be one of the great ones.

I will defend Pulisic. I thought he played very well for most of the match. It was just him and Weah being the offensive threats today. As far as the gesturing to the ref and lying on the ground, I get his frustration. I thought for sure someone on the USMNT was going to get sent off. He started off very strict with the cards especially with USMNT and then allowed both teams to rough each other after the initial cards. I thought the one on Dest was soft. I am not blaming the ref for the result but I understand why after seeing the early cards why Pulisic would be upset when stronger challenges were deemed to be legal. No need to get into the debacle at the back. I thought USMNT really suffered for not having a true striker out there.

[RainMaker]

I thought Pulisic was proving a point. They were stopping play when players went down for non-head related injuries. Then the ref just stopped doing that.

He was definitely not ready for an event like the World Cup but FIFA needs to absolutely fellate Qatar every chance they get.

[RainMaker]

I also wouldn't mark the Iran match as a win quite yet. They are bad, but the US has a habit of playing down to their competition, especially under Berhalter.

I weirdly have more confidence in them drawing England than I do beating Iran.

[bob]

When the score was even, Wales seemed completely uninterested in the opposing goal. I'm sure their porpoise from the opening moment of the match was to gain that draw for exactly that reason.

Not sure England will cooperate.

Right, that seems like a lot to assume.

[Solecismic]

I'll introduce another question - hopefully those of you who watch a lot more than I do can answer this easily.

Every set piece Wales had seemed dangerous. Crowding in front of the net, took decent play from the goaltender (I thought Turner had a good game, maybe even a great one under the circumstances) to save the result.

Every set piece the US had seemed trivial. Corners were line-drived into the opposition, few players seemingly interested in moving forward. Free kicks might as well have been throw-ins.

This doesn't seem normal. Does it take extraordinary coaching or players specifically to turn set-pieces into threats? Or is the US team and/or coaching staff simply awful in this category.

[RainMaker]

Pulisic seemed pretty bad at delivering them today and its really not his steength. Their best set pieces taker is Gio but he didn't play for some reason.

[SirFozzie]

Well now, If this result holds, this has to be the biggest world cup upset in some years..

[PilotMan]

That was a crazy match. Very fun with some great entertaining soccer.

[Solecismic]

I wish the Telemundo station around here had more than a tiny, tiny range. No way to pick it up. Sorry to miss that match. Don't cry for me, though. Incredible story. Everyone was talking up Messi as man of the century going into this tournament.

[miami_fan]

I'll introduce another question - hopefully those of you who watch a lot more than I do can answer this easily.

Every set piece Wales had seemed dangerous. Crowding in front of the net, took decent play from the goaltender (I thought Turner had a good game, maybe even a great one under the circumstances) to save the result.

Every set piece the US had seemed trivial. Corners were line-drived into the opposition, few players seemingly interested in moving forward. Free kicks might as well have been throw-ins.

This doesn't seem normal. Does it take extraordinary coaching or players specifically to turn set-pieces into threats? Or is the US team and/or coaching staff simply awful in this category.

I would have to go back and really analyze all of the set pieces. For me, set pieces are all about coaching and that starts with the squad building. No need to swing anything into the box if the team has no one capable of beating the other team to the first ball. No need to create intricate set piece designs if the set piece taker can’t deliver the right ball. Pulisic definitely struggled in that aspect yesterday. However, everything I read indicates that he is the primary set piece taker for free kicks, corners and penalties. If that is not his strength and there are no other options in the team when he is not having a good day, that goes back to coaching.

[bob]

Did not wake up expecting to see that Saudi Arabia beat Argentina

[Ghost Econ]

Pulisic has been pretty shit at set pieces his entire career. Aaronson splits them with Jack Harrison at Leeds and his corners are generally pretty dangerous.

Our crossing was terrible yesterday. It wouldnt have mattered if we had 6 Keifer Moore's for the US, none of them were anywhere near a dangerous area.

Pulisic was gassed by halftime. Constantly getting swiped at and literally every attack was directed right to him. It's not like he went out of his way, he was literally the only outlet pass because Weah hugged the other line. If Gio couldn't spell him for 1/2 hour in game 1 then we should have kept him at home wrapped in bubble wrap.

Also, I don't get Serginho Dest? Every team in Europe wants him, but he always looks terrible. He offered nothing on defense and nothing going forward.

I assume we'll bunker on Friday and try to use Haji Wright as a target man, because if you go against 2 Easter island statues you might as well play to their strengths. If we could just get 1 game with a front 4 of Pulisic, Reyna, Weah and Aaronson to see what happens.

[Ksyrup]

Between Qatar hosting and getting force-fed Skip Bayless in between games, this is the most evil sporting event I've ever watched.

[HomerSimpson98]

Tunisia-Denmark was a fun game to watch, even if it was 0-0.



I thought the ref did a fantastic job during the match as well. Refreshing to also not see the players from either side rolling around and begging for fouls.

[Ksyrup]

That looked like an ACL, but we'll see.

[bob]

Disappointed in the Poland result. That group is in weird shape now

[Critch]

World Cup really tests your nationalistic prejudices.

Do I hate the frogs more than the convicts? Only one way to find out, make them play each other and see who I end up cheering for.

[Ksyrup]

I don't follow international anything. I assume if Japan was to get a draw that would be a big deal?

[Ksyrup]

OK. How about a win?

[sovereignstar v2]

Nice goal

[Ghost Econ]

Everyone on the US coaching staff should be embarrassed after seeing Saudi Arabia and Japan play.

[Critch]

Germany's plan to pass it around a lot while having no cutting edge and a terrible defense got found out.

[Ghost Econ]

If Navas isn't at the top of his game, Costa Rica is not going to be very competitive in this tourney.

[tzach]

Does it take extraordinary coaching or players specifically to turn set-pieces into threats? Or is the US team and/or coaching staff simply awful in this category.

coaching, players with specific skills and, as of recent, data analytics. the article below is an interesting read at an introductory level

Set Pieces and Market Efficiency - StatsBomb | Data Champions (https://statsbomb.com/articles/soccer/set-pieces-and-market-efficiency/)

and there's quite some research articles on all sorts of edges that can be gained (e.g. from throw-ins)

Just a moment... (https://www.researchgate.net/publication/349199230_The_undervalued_set_piece_Analysis_of_soccer_throw-ins_during_the_English_Premier_League_2018-2019_season)

and corner kicks

Just a moment... (https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/pdf/10.1080/24748668.2021.1936408?needAccess=true)

[MIJB#19]

Everyone on the US coaching staff should be embarrassed after seeing Saudi Arabia and Japan play.Why? What have they done to be responsible for how Argentina and Germany performed?

[MIJB#19]

One trend of this tournament: outrageous long injury/stoppage time.

[miami_fan]

One trend of this tournament: outrageous long injury/stoppage time.

FIFA orders World Cup referees to add time at end of games (https://sports.yahoo.com/fifa-orders-world-cup-referees-111801354.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAIdEKdzDMHBYLb7G-41Prr_wbs2erPrdNyr2_dKfnFB06r2IsJahGt4NIDinEONO3rwQHZqaYDNQUybiccu4WeGGW6PhdXInW88Reg-NX715hyR4rf81i8qO_QJrnjFORN4QJVvobuxXU4eeDHUaVGo7uMhctGy2_1ia_gmoKNX9)

I am fine with it if it eventually causes teams to stop time wasting during the match. You want an extra 30 seconds here taking a throw in or a goal kick or an extra 2 minutes walking off for a substitution, the refs just has to add to the back end.

[MIJB#19]

FIFA orders World Cup referees to add time at end of games (https://sports.yahoo.com/fifa-orders-world-cup-referees-111801354.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAIdEKdzDMHBYLb7G-41Prr_wbs2erPrdNyr2_dKfnFB06r2IsJahGt4NIDinEONO3rwQHZqaYDNQUybiccu4WeGGW6PhdXInW88Reg-NX715hyR4rf81i8qO_QJrnjFORN4QJVvobuxXU4eeDHUaVGo7uMhctGy2_1ia_gmoKNX9)

I am fine with it if it eventually causes teams to stop time wasting during the match. You want an extra 30 seconds here taking a throw in or a goal kick or an extra 2 minutes walking off for a substitution, the refs just has to add to the back end.Sure, sure, I didn't see it as a bad thing (or a good thing). Maybe "outrageous" wasn't the correct term, maybe "refreshingly unfamiliar" fits better? And in some cases "extremely unlucky".

[MIJB#19]

How on earth is that not a red card for Francisco Calvo. The referees for this match just earned an early flight back home.

[Ksyrup]

Why is this a debate? Surely with all the advanced metrics in sport it would be fairly easy to estimate "down time" to within a minute or so. 5 minutes OK, but calling what is ordinarly 5 minutes of stoppage time 8 or 9 minutes because it's World Cup is kinda stupid. It's either real stoppage time or it's artifically inflated.

[whomario]

Why is this a debate? Surely with all the advanced metrics in sport it would be fairly easy to estimate "down time" to within a minute or so. 5 minutes OK, but calling what is ordinarly 5 minutes of stoppage time 8 or 9 minutes because it's World Cup is kinda stupid. It's either real stoppage time or it's artifically inflated.

It was massively underdone previously. You'd have 5 minutes for subs, 5 for injuries/'injuries', 5 for discussions after fouls/making the wall,then have 3 minutes stoppage time.
The problem, if you don't want the clock to stop NFL style, is figuring out what stoppage 'counts' and what is 'normal'. In an average Bundesliga match the ball is in play about 55 minutes (60 in Bayern Matches, 50 in Cologne matches). Obviously that doesn't mean you add on 35 (technically more because there'll be further stoppages ;) ).
I haven't watched a game yet (little interest + work) but i would guess what is done is accounting for stoppages due to injuries/substitutions more strictly.

[Ghost Econ]

That Davies penalty was as bad as Pulisic's set pieces.

[miami_fan]

Why is this a debate? Surely with all the advanced metrics in sport it would be fairly easy to estimate "down time" to within a minute or so. 5 minutes OK, but calling what is ordinarly 5 minutes of stoppage time 8 or 9 minutes because it's World Cup is kinda stupid. It's either real stoppage time or it's artifically inflated.

As whomario, stoppage time has been significantly miscalculated on the low end in the club game IMO. There shouldn't be an "ordinarily" assigned time i.e. 30 seconds for each sub made in the game. A left back who is subbed out and walks all the way across the field to where the fourth official stands with the board is to high five his teammate before going off should not have the same added time as one who walks off as the closest sideline. Add in all the lengthy goal kicks, diving, arguing with the match officials etc., 8-9 minutes is probably closer to what should be added in most club matches.

Let's be honest though, that does mess with the normal TV match schedule and not sure the networks will be appreciative of that.

[miami_fan]

Speaking of proper stoppage time, I don't know if they mentioned it on the broadcast but the match official for the Belgium vs Canada match is the same guy who ended an AFCON match at the 85 minute mark and the 89 minute mark after suffering from heat stroke and very severe dehydration.

[Edward64]

I love the pic but am unsure when protesting (something) is "over the line". I think the answer is the definition of "over the line" is relative depending on one's perspective and pretty subjective.

Germany players pose with their hands covering their mouths as they line up for the team's photo prior to the World Cup game against Japan.
https://media.cnn.com/api/v1/images/stellar/prod/221123150150-03-germany-protest-world-cup-2022.jpg?c=16x9&q=h_720,w_1280,c_fill

[cubboyroy1826]

Regarding the US corners I agree Pulisic did not have a good day. Not sure he is the right person to take those. One other thing was I don't recall seeing Zimmerman upfront for the corners. Throughout the MLS season he was pretty good getting his head on corners. It didn't seem we had anyone challenging for the ball although the corners served up were not all that great.

[Solecismic]

I love the pic but am unsure when protesting (something) is "over the line". I think the answer is the definition of "over the line" is relative depending on one's perspective and pretty subjective.


Over the line is only when you lose a match to a far less talented squad because your opponent outworked you and earned every last minute of their celebration.

Then you can pin the blame on anything you like.

Honestly, given just how hard players have to work for decades to have the honor of wearing their country's colors, I don't see why they would allow themselves to be distracted by anything over the last month or so.

What are they protesting, anyway? They've had about 12 years to tell FIFA what they think about Qatar's human rights record. FIFA didn't care. Their executives pocketed millions and that was that - a shining endorsement of everything Qatar.

For players on a FIFA team to spend time caring about Qatari politics right now is the height of hypocrisy.

[tzach]

i couldn't agree more -- and to make things worse, most European countries are importing Qatari nat gas at record levels, thus funding the system.


coming back to soccer, what a difference it makes when you have a great goalkeeper like Belgium has.

[bhlloy]

As whomario, stoppage time has been significantly miscalculated on the low end in the club game IMO. There shouldn't be an "ordinarily" assigned time i.e. 30 seconds for each sub made in the game. A left back who is subbed out and walks all the way across the field to where the fourth official stands with the board is to high five his teammate before going off should not have the same added time as one who walks off as the closest sideline. Add in all the lengthy goal kicks, diving, arguing with the match officials etc., 8-9 minutes is probably closer to what should be added in most club matches.

Let's be honest though, that does mess with the normal TV match schedule and not sure the networks will be appreciative of that.

With all the tracking of data down to the amount each player is running during the game, there's no reason this shouldn't be exactly how it works. Any time a player is down injured, a sub is being made or a player takes more than x at a dead ball (I'd suggest 15 seconds) the time should be tracked and added on.

This basically would stop time wasting in it's tracks. Or just go to the 60 minute running clock. Either would be a change for the TV networks but if they can live with it at the World Cup with 4 games a day, I don't really see an issue.

[Ksyrup]

That's what I'm say. Maybe they're getting it closer to right at World Cup but it's still not right in any scientific way. It sounds more like, no one gives enough stoppage time so double what you'd normally give during this tournament.

[sterlingice]

What are they protesting, anyway? They've had about 12 years to tell FIFA what they think about Qatar's human rights record. FIFA didn't care. Their executives pocketed millions and that was that - a shining endorsement of everything Qatar.

For players on a FIFA team to spend time caring about Qatari politics right now is the height of hypocrisy.

Isn't this a bit like "Colin Kapernick needs to protest the right way"? Like those players could have said something over the last 12 years and would anyone have known or cared. Until they got on a big stage, no one would have noticed. Hey, look, people are noticing now. Of course, you could argue that it won't drive any change but it is driving visibility.

SI

[kingfc22]

100% what SI said. Ridiculous that what the German team did could be considered “over the line” or controversial.

They were making a statement. End of story.

[miami_fan]

That's what I'm say. Maybe they're getting it closer to right at World Cup but it's still not right in any scientific way. It sounds more like, no one gives enough stoppage time so double what you'd normally give during this tournament.

If the aim was to get it exactly right in a more scientific way, they would take the time keeping out of the hand of the match officials and give it to a guy in a box upstairs who would stop and start the clock at any and every stoppage. That is the exact fix. I personally don't want that at all.

In theory, FIFA as the sport's world governing body, should be the one to govern games in its tournaments as close the laws of the game as possible. In theory, the expectation should be that the continental and league governing bodies move closer to FIFA's position, not the other way around.

[Solecismic]

Isn't this a bit like "Colin Kapernick needs to protest the right way"? Like those players could have said something over the last 12 years and would anyone have known or cared. Until they got on a big stage, no one would have noticed. Hey, look, people are noticing now. Of course, you could argue that it won't drive any change but it is driving visibility.

SI

I wouldn't compare it to Kaepernick. And I have no interest in discussing Kaepernick. So let's keep that straw man out of the burn pit.

I wouldn't claim that the German players crossed a line, either. They were extra-super careful not to cross one.

All I'm saying is that the issue is that a major business venture (FIFA) made the decision to hold the tournament in Qatar. Unless the objective is to go to war with Qatar, a peaceful, independent country, the Qataris live under a very different government than we do.

When FIFA chose Qatar, twelve years ago, to host the largest tournament in the sports world, it made a business decision. Players also make business decisions. They choose to play under FIFA's rules. One can argue that it's not much of a choice, in that if they reject FIFA, they won't have the opportunity to hone their skills against the best players in the world. But it's still a choice.

However, as members of FIFA, it's hypocrisy to support the decision until the stage is large enough that something so simple is considered at all meaningful. And that they've put time into creating a photo moment that has all the impact of a wet noodle slamming into a brick wall when it comes to influencing Qatar does open them up to criticism when they come up with a terrible effort in an important game.

What is protest? Obviously, there are various degrees. In Iran, people are risking death because women are essentially property and they want the next generation of women to have basic human rights. More often these days, protest is far more benign, even encouraged by the government, at which point it probably isn't protest at all.

Why? Because it implies giving something up in order to effect change. The German players didn't give anything up, and their audience is already 100% aware and in agreement. It was just a virtue signal. We're going to follow Qatar's rules so we can support FIFA and play in the biggest tournament in the world here, but we're not 100% selling out because we took the time to come up with this gesture. Like naughty schoolboys, I guess? Even they risk something because their behavior is impulsive rather than carefully choreographed and organized for the cameras.

When you take on governments, or you take on the corporations that support these governments, maybe you can effect change out there. It's not up to me to say what works and what doesn't work. But when you have a situation in which FIFA has agreed to heavily penalize teams that wear certain logos and you're playing in a FIFA tournament and it's FIFA's decision to enrich Qatar...

If you agree to play wearing FIFA's logo, you've already made your statement. You are running back and forth over the graves of countless slaves who died constructing these marvelous stadiums. You are not standing up for rights of any kind, other than your own right to hone your own talent and make millions doing it.

[JonInMiddleGA]

It was just a virtue signal.

Ding ding ding.

That it was so obviously phony is what mades them getting embarrassed on the pitch in close proximity to the stunt absolutely delightful to me.

[MIJB#19]

The 'statement' by the German team was their response to FIFA's 11th hour decision to ban the captain's arm band that several European teams have being wearing in official UEFA competitions this year in an effort to strengthen the anti-discrimination vibe that 'football' is trying to promote. Discrimination of all kinds is still a major problem in football stadiums. The only people that have the ability to influence it, are the players on the field. They are the biggest role models in the world. It's a change of times that players are willing to see that and while many mostly promote silliness on their social media non-sense, every now or then they try to be aware of having the means to do good as well.

FIFA out of the blue stamped the One Love band as a political statement and instead ordered teams to use FIFA's own "No discrimination" band that was worn by the USA and Wales captains. For crying out loud, FIFA has branded the word "Love" as being too political and to not be used in any form whatsoever. Additionally, warming up kits were banned because they were too colorful, hence a political statement in it's opinion. The way I understand it, this band has nothing to do with being anti-Qatar and also it isn't correct when people proclaim that band is pro-LHBTIQX (or whatever the flavor of the day abbreviation is), it's just as much about racism and freedom of religion.

The latter has been subject of quite the uproar in the Netherlands when the KNVB and the Eredivisie clubs picked a weekend where all captains would wear it and two of the 18 captains refused it because they felt that their religious beliefs were in conflict with it. They completely missed the point that the fact they can live in a country where their religion enriched life exists is because of freedom of religion, which makes it a moronic decision to not want to promote it.

But football is not about politics. FIFA claimed the World Cup will bring peace between the Ukraine and Russia (never mind that Russia got disqualified over their invasion of Ukraine, so why would Russia even care for this tournament?). We all know a "World" Cup is always about politics. Every border between countries continues to exist because the politicians in the bordering countries respect them. Hence Belgium and the Netherlands having separate teams.

/rant

Next match today, Ecuador. That's a "another cookie" as Van Gaal might say.

[Edward64]

Kinda funny but think (?) we can all agree this is over the line for a soccer match in Qatar. I can see how this will offend many.

World Cup 2022: England fans BANNED from dressing up as 'offensive' Crusaders for USA match | Daily Mail Online (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11467763/World-Cup-2022-England-fans-BANNED-dressing-offensive-Crusaders-USA-match.html)

England fans dressed as Crusaders with chainmail, shields and swords are stopped by security outside a stadium in Qatar

https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2022/11/23/10/64822857-11460755-At_one_point_the_group_carrying_foam_swords_and_wearing_chain_ma-a-3_1669197829537.jpg

https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2022/11/25/01/64922701-11467763-image-a-5_1669340828878.jpg

But don't know if this should really be an issue. If I had a team in this, I'd think this would be a cool souvenier.

Meanwhile, bars in Doha are demanding fans wearing traditional Arabic robes and headdress to remove them over fears it offends locals and insults Islam.

The clothing has become popular among fans and is being widely sold in the team colours of the 32 nations playing at the tournament.

[Solecismic]

US/Iran next week, likely to determine second place, with Iran playing for a draw. Interesting. No yellow cards for key players today. Maybe even rest them.

[sterlingice]

The 'statement' by the German team was their response to FIFA's 11th hour decision to ban the captain's arm band that several European teams have being wearing in official UEFA competitions this year in an effort to strengthen the anti-discrimination vibe that 'football' is trying to promote. Discrimination of all kinds is still a major problem in football stadiums. The only people that have the ability to influence it, are the players on the field. They are the biggest role models in the world. It's a change of times that players are willing to see that and while many mostly promote silliness on their social media non-sense, every now or then they try to be aware of having the means to do good as well.

FIFA out of the blue stamped the One Love band as a political statement and instead ordered teams to use FIFA's own "No discrimination" band that was worn by the USA and Wales captains. For crying out loud, FIFA has branded the word "Love" as being too political and to not be used in any form whatsoever. Additionally, warming up kits were banned because they were too colorful, hence a political statement in it's opinion. The way I understand it, this band has nothing to do with being anti-Qatar and also it isn't correct when people proclaim that band is pro-LHBTIQX (or whatever the flavor of the day abbreviation is), it's just as much about racism and freedom of religion.

The latter has been subject of quite the uproar in the Netherlands when the KNVB and the Eredivisie clubs picked a weekend where all captains would wear it and two of the 18 captains refused it because they felt that their religious beliefs were in conflict with it. They completely missed the point that the fact they can live in a country where their religion enriched life exists is because of freedom of religion, which makes it a moronic decision to not want to promote it.

But football is not about politics. FIFA claimed the World Cup will bring peace between the Ukraine and Russia (never mind that Russia got disqualified over their invasion of Ukraine, so why would Russia even care for this tournament?). We all know a "World" Cup is always about politics. Every border between countries continues to exist because the politicians in the bordering countries respect them. Hence Belgium and the Netherlands having separate teams.

/rant

Wait, so you're telling me there's more to it than everyone is just a virtue signaling hypocrite? Interesting.

SI

[miami_fan]

One change to the USMNT lineup. Sargent out, Wright in.

[sterlingice]

US lucky to get into the half scoreless. They did decent for the half but England had a ton of pressure the last few minutes.

SI

[GrantDawg]

US lucky to get into the half scoreless. They did decent for the half but England had a ton of pressure the last few minutes.

SI
The US had some excellent opportunities as well. It definitely wasn't a one-sided half.

[sterlingice]

Yeah, they had a lot more life than they did against Wales. But they felt gassed towards the end.

Starting to feel like they're losing more possession here in the 2nd half and it might become a problem very soon.

SI

[miami_fan]

So we are allowing to studs on the ankle? Just stay consistent.

[sterlingice]

I guess I was wrong - as soon as I say that about us starting to lose possession - US gets a number of nice attacks.

I notice England doesn't exactly fear our set pieces

SI

[Solecismic]

Monday's Game: Corners and free kicks lined straight into the Wales defense. Nothing remotely threatening.

Pundits: Pulisic is awful at set pieces. They really need to get someone in there who can put a dangerous ball in play.

Pulisic: Well...

Teammates on Thursday: Cool corners, bro.

Pulisic: And...

Pundits: Maybe the USA coaches should work on installing some plays there.

That aside, I'm impressed with the effort today. Probably England finds a way to 1-0 in the end, but they came to play today.

[sterlingice]

I feel like Pulisic's kicks are not awful today but there's nothing going on in the middle, but I'm also not very good at evaluating this

SI

[GrantDawg]

Disappointing they didn't sell out on that last free kick, but a draw is still huge.

[Galaril]

So beat Iran and they go forward to second round.

[Solecismic]

You usually need to win at some point to advance in this format. Because of that +4 in the opener, England didn't have any pressure on it today. Not sure it mattered whether it was 0-1 or 0-0 for the US, so the attacking style today was good to see.

It'll be interesting to see what Iran comes up with on Tuesday, needing a point to eliminate the US and move on. Of course, Wales could come up with a win against England and then a draw eliminates both US and Iran. England looked bored and efficient. Wales just looked tired.

About the armband thing... you're playing in a tournament under the umbrella of an organization that put the tournament in Qatar despite everyone knowing that human rights is a different story in Islamic theocracies. Your participation endorses FIFA's decision.

When I'm watching a sporting event, if it came down to having any interest in armband color because I'm looking for a signal of some sort, I'm already well aware of the issues. But it's like caring about the deck chairs on the Titanic. I would like everyone - gay, straight, combinations of both, neither, women, men, people of all races - to have the same rights everywhere. If I ran the world, they would. It's important. A soccer match can't change that, but it can be an event that brings people together. I won't say that these gestures are meaningless, but they are far, far less important than the fact that people are coming together to watch soccer.

I'm frustrated that FIFA chose money over refusing to help elevate a country where human rights are granted only to a subset of the people. If I thought about it more, maybe I wouldn't watch. But then I'd be missing out on the soccer. Trivial, yes, but so is the armband thing for those on field.

There's a competition out there called Miss America, for those of you too young to remember when it was a major annual television event. We came together to judge the superficial beauty of mostly white, tall, 20-year-old women with what popular culture considered spectacular figures (think of Hot or Not, but with no disagreement). There was a talent portion to make it somehow more competition-like, but everyone made fun of it - the women only had to have some training in putting on a competent display of something - could be flower-arranging, IIRC.

Television ratings were high. It was a mindless, satisfying, easily digested display of men ogling women and women, who made up just as much of the audience, enthusiastically judging as well (evening gowns were very important). Bert Parks would sing, and celebrities wore fancy clothes, and that made it all so legitimate and saccharine.

The key was tying it into states competing against states. The women wore big sashes with their state's name. For those in my generation, so many of us bought into this from childhood. It really was a significant part of our culture at the time.

Like many cultural phenomena, it died out. A new consciousness arose. Pageants felt less legitimate and more exploitative. Honey Boo-Boo happened. Something called the "personal interview" came into being, and we made fun of it because the "right" answer was to say the phrase "world peace" in a hopeful and yet charming manner.

But then it replaced the bathing suit "competition" and the answers were judged in the exact same manner - there's an ideal political mindset out there, and it must be regurgitated. And the audience just disappeared with the snap of a finger. I'm not sure it's even on television any more.

I don't miss it. It is an anachronism, part of our history that I guess makes some people want to make great again, but it wouldn't. In today's world, empathizing far more with women's equality, it would feel too exploitative. But the competition goes on, and apparently, to the delight of the right wing's perpetually-angry talking heads, some states are even choosing winners who are genetically male and identify as women. Which is fascinating, but I'm not sure makes for compelling television.

Some day, perhaps sports will also fall into this anachronistic category of things we once enjoyed, but we cannot feel good about anymore. I think the concussion issue in football could be the impetus here. But that's still a long way off. The point is that if we try and make things that people enjoy as entertainment political, they become insufferable and no longer bring us together at all.

[RainMaker]

So beat Iran and they go forward to second round.

I think everyone would have taken this scenario coming into the World Cup.

[miami_fan]

Some players have a hard time getting their bonuses from their country's FA. The Saudis?

Saudi Arabia's National Team Gifted Rolls-Royce Phantoms After Historic World Cup Victory (https://www.yahoo.com/now/saudi-arabias-national-team-gifted-155951764.html)

FYI, from what I can tell none of the players play outside of the Saudi Pro League.

[Ghost Econ]

Adams and Robinson might be getting a few calls when they're done in Qatar. Can't imagine they're still at Leeds and Fulham after this season.

Matt Turner might have earned a nice loan move for the second half of the season..

Definitely a nervy first 15-20 minutes, but after that it never felt like England would be a danger from open play. Don't feel like it's a sure thing we'll advance, but if you can't win 1 game you probably don't deserve to advance anyway.

[Galaril]

I think everyone would have taken this scenario coming into the World Cup.

Yup agreed.

[MIJB#19]

Scenarios on what may happen next Tuesday:

<table border=2><tr><td>Group A<td>Ecuador wins<td>draw Ecu - Sen<td>Senegal wins
<tr><td>Netherlands wins<td><table border=1><tr><td>1 & 2 Netherlands 7 *A<tr><td>1 & 2 Ecuador 7 *A<tr><td>3 Senegal 3<tr><td>4 Qatar 0</table><td><table border=1><tr><td>1 Netherlands 7<tr><td>2 Ecuador 5<tr><td>3 Senegal 4<tr><td>4 Qatar 0</table><td><table border=1><tr><td>1 Netherlands 7<tr><td>2 Senegal 6<tr><td>3 Ecuador 4<tr><td>4 Qatar 0</table>
<tr><td>draw Ned - Qat<td><table border=1><tr><td>1 Ecuador 7<tr><td>2 Netherlands 5<tr><td>3 Senegal 3<tr><td>4 Qatar 1</table><td><table border=1><tr><td>1 & 2 Netherlands 5 *A<tr><td>1 & 2 Ecuador 5 *A<tr><td>3 Senegal 4<tr><td>4 Qatar 1</table><td><table border=1><tr><td>1 Senegal 6<tr><td>2 Netherlands 5<tr><td>3 Ecuador 4<tr><td>4 Qatar 1</table>
<tr><td>Qatar wins<td><table border=1><tr><td>1 Ecuador 7<tr><td>2 Netherlands 4<tr><td>3 & 4 Senegal 3 *B<tr><td>3 & 4 Qatar 3 *B</table><td><table border=1><tr><td>1 Ecuador 5<tr><td>2 & 3 Netherlands 4 *C<tr><td>2 & 3 Senegal 4 *C<tr><td>4 Qatar 3</table><td><table border=1><tr><td>1 Senegal 6<tr><td>2 & 3 Netherlands 4 *A<tr><td>2 & 3 Ecuador 4 *A<tr><td>4 Qatar 3</table>
</table>
*A comes down to overall goal difference (currently tied at +2 each), then overall goals scored (currently tied at 3 each), then overall yellow cards (currently Netherlands leads 1 vs 3), then draw of lots
*B comes down to overall goal difference (currently Senegal leads 0 vs -4), then overall goals scored (currently Senegal leads 3 vs 1), then head-to-head (Senegal won)
*C comes down to overall goal difference (currently Netherlands leads +2 vs 0), then overall goals scored (currently tied 3 each), then head-to-head (Netherlands won)



<table border=2><tr><td>Group B<td>Iran wins<td>draw Irn - USA<td>USA wins
<tr><td>England wins<td><table border=1><tr><td>1 England 7<tr><td>2 Iran 6<tr><td>3 USA 2<tr><td>4 Wales 1</table><td><table border=1><tr><td>1 England 7<tr><td>2 Iran 4<tr><td>3 USA 3<tr><td>4 Wales 1</table><td><table border=1><tr><td>1 England 7<tr><td>2 USA 5<tr><td>3 Iran 3<tr><td>4 Wales 1</table>
<tr><td>draw Eng - Wal<td><table border=1><tr><td>1 Iran 6<tr><td>2 England 5<tr><td>3 & 4 USA 2 *A<tr><td>3 & 4 Wales 2 *A</table><td><table border=1><tr><td>1 England 5<tr><td>2 Iran 4<tr><td>3 USA 3<tr><td>4 Wales 2</table><td><table border=1><tr><td>1 & 2 England 5 *B<tr><td>1 & 2 USA 5 *B<tr><td>3 Iran 4<tr><td>4 Wales 2</table>
<tr><td>Wales wins<td><table border=1><tr><td>1 Iran 6<tr><td>2 & 3 England 4 *C<tr><td>2 & 3 Wales 4 *C<tr><td>4 USA 2</table><td><table border=1><tr><td>1 & 2 & 3 England 4 *D<tr><td>1 & 2 & 3 Iran 4 *D<tr><td>1 & 2 & 3 Wales 4 *D<tr><td>4 USA 3</table><td><table border=1><tr><td>1 USA 5<tr><td>2 & 3 England 4 *C<tr><td>2 & 3 Wales 4 *C<tr><td>4 Iran 4</table>
</table>
*A comes down to overall goal difference (currently USA leads 0 vs -2), then overall goals scored (currently tied 1 each), then overall yellow cards (currently USA leads 4 vs 7), then draw of lots
*B comes down to overall goal difference (currently England leads +4 vs 0), then overall goals scored (currently England leads 6 vs 1), then overall yellow cards (currently England leads 0 vs 4), then draw of lots
*C comes down to overall goal difference (currently England leads +4 vs -2), then overall goals scored (currently England leads 6 vs 1), then head-to-head (Wales will win)
*D comes down to overall goal difference (currently England leads ahead of Iran and Wales +4 vs -2 and -2), then overall goals scored (currently England leads ahead of Iran 6 vs 4 vs 1), then head-to-head goal difference (currently England leads ahead of Iran and Wales +4 vs -2 and -2), then head-to-head goals scored (currently England leads ahead of Iran 6 vs 4 vs 0), then drawing of lots; if at some point one team advances, while the two others are tied, ties will be broken between those two on overall goal difference, then overall goals scored, then head-to-head (England beat Iran, Iran beat Wales, Wales beats England)

[MIJB#19]

<table border=2><tr><td>Group D<td>France wins<td>draw Fra - Tun<td>Tunisia wins
<tr><td>Australia wins<td><table border=1><tr><td>1 France 9<tr><td>2 Australia 6<tr><td>3 & 4 Denmark 1 *A<tr><td>3 & 4 Tunisia 1 *A</table><td><table border=1><tr><td>1 France 7<tr><td>2 Australia 6<tr><td>3 Tunisia 2<tr><td>4 Denmark 1</table><td><table border=1><tr><td>1 & 2 France 6 *B<tr><td>1 & 2 Australia 6 *B<tr><td>3 Tunisia 4<tr><td>4 Denmark 1</table>
<tr><td>draw Aus - Den<td><table border=1><tr><td>1 France 9<tr><td>2 Australia 4<tr><td>3 Denmark 2<tr><td>4 Tunisia 1</table><td><table border=1><tr><td>1 France 7<tr><td>2 Australia 4<tr><td>3 & 4 Denmark 2 *A<tr><td>3 & 4 Tunisia 2 *A</table><td><table border=1><tr><td>1 France 6<tr><td>2 & 3 Tunisia 4 *C<tr><td>2 & 3 Australia 4 *C<tr><td>4 Denmark 2</table>
<tr><td>Denmark wins<td><table border=1><tr><td>1 France 9<tr><td>2 Denmark 4<tr><td>3 Australia 3<tr><td>4 Tunisia 1</table><td><table border=1><tr><td>1 France 7<tr><td>2 Denmark 4<tr><td>3 Australia 3<tr><td>4 Tunisia 2</table><td><table border=1><tr><td>1 France 6<tr><td>2 & 3 Denmark 4 *A<tr><td>2 & 3 Tunisia 4 *A<tr><td>4 Australia 3</table>
</table>
*A comes down to overall goal difference (currently tied -1 each), then overall goals scored (currently Denmark leads 1 vs 0), then overall yellow cards (currently tied 4 each), then draw of lots
*B comes down to overall goal difference (currently France leads +4 vs -2), then overall goals scored (currently France leads 6 vs 2), then head-to-head (France won)
*C comes down to overall goal difference (currently Tunisia leads -1 vs -2), then overall goals scored (currently Australia leads 2 vs 0), then head-to-head (Australia won)

[miami_fan]

Yup, that guy.

[MIJB#19]

Scenarios for Wednesday, the other group:
<table border=2><tr><td>Group C<td>Poland wins<td>draw Pol - Arg<td>Argentina wins
<tr><td>Saudi Arabia win<td><table border=1><tr><td>1 Poland 7<tr><td>2 Saudi Arabia 6<tr><td>3 Argentina 3<tr><td>4 Mexico 1</table><td><table border=1><tr><td>1 Saudi Arabia 6<tr><td>2 Poland 5<tr><td>3 Argentina 4<tr><td>4 Mexico 1</table><td><table border=1><tr><td>1 & 2 Argentina 6 *A<tr><td>1 & 2 Saudi Arabia 6 *A<tr><td>3 Poland 4<tr><td>4 Mexico 1</table>
<tr><td>draw KSA - Mex<td><table border=1><tr><td>1 Poland 7<tr><td>2 Saudi Arabia 4<tr><td>3 Argentina 3<tr><td>4 Mexico 2</table><td><table border=1><tr><td>1 Poland 5<tr><td>2 & 3 Argentina 4 *A<tr><td>2 & 3 Saudi Arabia 4 *A<tr><td>4 Mexico 2</table><td><table border=1><tr><td>1 Argentina 6<tr><td>2 & 3 Poland 4 *B<tr><td>2 & 3 Saudi Arabia 4 *B<tr><td>4 Mexico 2</table>
<tr><td>Mexico wins<td><table border=1><tr><td>1 Poland 7<tr><td>2 Mexico 4<tr><td>3 & 4 Argentina 3 *A<tr><td>3 & 4 Saudi Arabia 3 *A</table><td><table border=1><tr><td>1 Poland 5<tr><td>2 & 3 Argentina 4 *C<tr><td>2 & 3 Mexico 4 *C<tr><td>4 Saudi Arabia 3</table><td><table border=1><tr><td>1 Argentina 6<tr><td>2 & 3 Poland 4 *D<tr><td>2 & 3 Mexico 4 *D<tr><td>4 Saudi Arabia 3</table>
</table>
*A comes down to overall goal difference (currently Argentina leads +1 vs -1), then overall goals scored (currently Argentina leads 3 vs 2), then head-to-head (Saudi Arabia won)
*B comes down to overall goal difference (currently Poland leads +2 vs -1), then overal goals scored (currently tied 2 each), then head-to-head (Poland won)
*C comes down to overall goal difference (currently Argentina leads +1 vs -2), then overall goal scored (currently Argentina leads 3 vs 0), then head-to-head (Argentina won)
*D comes down to overall goal difference (currently Poland leads +2 vs -2), then overall goals scored (currently Poland leads 2 vs 0), then yellow cards (Poland leads 4 vs 6), then draw of lots

[sovereignstar v2]

I believe a Canadian player currently has a tampon up his nose.

[Ksyrup]

My daughter said, "That dude is wearing his tampon all wrong!"

Also, Canada's goalie is the best worst goalie I've seen so far this tournament.

[MIJB#19]

Scenarios for Thursday
<table border=2><tr><td>Group F<td>Belgium wins<td>draw Bel - Cro<td>Croatia wins
<tr><td>Morocco wins<td><table border=1><tr><td>1 Morocco 7<tr><td>2 Belgium 6<tr><td>3 Croatia 4<tr><td>4 Canada 0</table><td><table border=1><tr><td>1 Morocco 7<tr><td>2 Croatia 5<tr><td>3 Belgium 4<tr><td>4 Canada 0</table><td><table border=1><tr><td>1 & 2 Croatia 7 *A<tr><td>1 & 2 Morocco 7 *A<tr><td>3 Belgium 3<tr><td>4 Canada 0</table>
<tr><td>draw Mar - Can<td><table border=1><tr><td>1 Belgium 6<tr><td>2 Morocco 5<tr><td>3 Croatia 4<tr><td>4 Canada 1</table><td><table border=1><tr><td>1 & 2 Croatia 5 *A<tr><td>1 & 2 Morocco 5 *A<tr><td>3 Belgium 4<tr><td>4 Canada 1</table><td><table border=1><tr><td>1 Croatia 7<tr><td>2 Morocco 5<tr><td>3 Belgium 3<tr><td>4 Canada 1</table>
<tr><td>Canada wins<td><table border=1><tr><td>1 Belgium 6<tr><td>2 & 3 Croatia 4 *A<tr><td>2 & 3 Morocco 4 *A<tr><td>4 Canada 3</table><td><table border=1><tr><td>1 Croatia 5<tr><td>2 & 3 Morocco 4 *B<tr><td>2 & 3 Belgium 4 *B<tr><td>4 Canada 3</table><td><table border=1><tr><td>1 Croatia 7<tr><td>2 Morocco 4<tr><td>3 & 4 Belgium 3 *C<tr><td>3 & 4 Canada 3 *C</table>
</table>
*A comes down to overall goal difference (currently Croatia leads +3 vs +2), then overall goals scored (currently Croatia leads 4 vs 2), then overall yellow cards (currently tied 2 each), then draw of lots
*B comes down to overall goal difference (currently Morocco leads +2 vs -1), then overall goals scored (currently Morocco leads 2 vs 1), then head-to-head (Morocco won)
*C comes down to overall goal difference (currently Belgium leads -1 vs -4), then overall goals scored (currently tied 1 each), then head-to-head (Belgium won)

[MIJB#19]

Second part for next Thursday:

<table border=2><tr><td>Group E<td>Spain wins<td>draw Esp - Jpn<td>Japan wins
<tr><td>Costa Rica wins<td><table border=1><tr><td>1 Spain 7<tr><td>2 Costa Rica 6<tr><td>3 Japan 3<tr><td>4 Germany 1</table><td><table border=1><tr><td>1 Costa Rica 6<tr><td>2 Spain 5<tr><td>3 Japan 4<tr><td>4 Germany 1</table><td><table border=1><tr><td>1 & 2 Japan 6 *A<tr><td>1 & 2 Costa Rica 6 *A<tr><td>3 Spain 4<tr><td>4 Germany 1</table>
<tr><td>draw CRi - Ger<td><table border=1><tr><td>1 Spain 7<tr><td>2 Costa Rica 4<tr><td>3 Japan 3<tr><td>4 Germany 2</table><td><table border=1><tr><td>1 Spain 5<tr><td>3 & 4 Japan 4 *A<tr><td>3 & 4 Costa Rica 4 *A<tr><td>4 Germany 2</table><td><table border=1><tr><td>1 Japan 6<tr><td>2 & 3 Spain 4 *B<tr><td>2 & 3 Costa Rica 4 *B<tr><td>4 Germany 2</table>
<tr><td>Germany wins<td><table border=1><tr><td>1 Spain 7<tr><td>2 Germany 4<tr><td>3 & 4 Japan 3 *A<tr><td>3 & 4 Costa Rica 3 *A</table><td><table border=1><tr><td>1 Spain 5<tr><td>2 & 3 Japan 4 *C<tr><td>2 & 3 Germany 4 *C<tr><td>4 Costa Rica 3</table><td><table border=1><tr><td>1 Japan 6<tr><td>2 & 3 Spain 4 *D<tr><td>2 & 3 Germany 4 *D<tr><td>4 Costa Rica 3</table>
</table>
*A comes down to overall goal difference (currently Japan leads 0 vs -6), then goals scored (currently Japan leads 2 vs 1), then head-to-head (Costa Rica won)
*B comes down to overall goal difference (currently Spain leads +7 vs -6), then goals scored (currently Spain leads 8 vs 1), then head-to-head (Spain won)
*C comes down to overall goal difference (currently Japan leads 0 vs -1), then goals scored (currently tied 2 each), then head-to-head (Japan won)
*D comes down to overall goal difference (currently Spain leads +7 vs -1), then goals scored (currently Spain leads 8 vs 2), then overall yellow cards (Spain leads 1 vs 3), then draw of lots

[MIJB#19]

Scenarios for next Friday:
<table border=2><tr><td>Group G<td>Portugal wins<td>draw Por - Kor<td>South Korea wins
<tr><td>Ghana wins<td><table border=1><tr><td>1 Portugal 9<tr><td>2 Ghana 6<tr><td>3 & 4 South Korea 1 *A<tr><td>3 & 4 Uruguay 1 *A</table><td><table border=1><tr><td>1 Portugal 7<tr><td>2 Ghana 6<tr><td>3 South Korea 2<tr><td>4 Uruguay 1</table><td><table border=1><tr><td>1 & 2 Portugal 6 *B<tr><td>1 & 2 Ghana 6 *B<tr><td>3 South Korea 4<tr><td>4 Uruguay 1</table>
<tr><td>draw Gha - Uru<td><table border=1><tr><td>1 Portugal 9<tr><td>2 Ghana 4<tr><td>3 Uruguay 2<tr><td>4 South Korea 1</table><td><table border=1><tr><td>1 Portugal 7<tr><td>2 Ghana 4<tr><td>3 & 4 South Korea 2 *A<tr><td>3 & 4 Uruguay 2 *A</table><td><table border=1><tr><td>1 Portugal 6<tr><td>2 & 3 Ghana 4 *C<tr><td>2 & 3 South Korea 4 *C<tr><td>4 Uruguay 2</table>
<tr><td>Uruguay wins<td><table border=1><tr><td>1 Portugal 9<tr><td>2 Uruguay 4<tr><td>3 Ghana 3<tr><td>4 South Korea 1</table><td><table border=1><tr><td>1 Portugal 7<tr><td>2 Uruguay 4<tr><td>3 Ghana 3<tr><td>4 South Korea 2</table><td><table border=1><tr><td>1 Portugal 6<tr><td>2 & 3 South Korea 4 *A<tr><td>2 & 3 Uruguay 4 *A<tr><td>4 Ghana 3</table>
</table>
*A comes down to overall goal difference (currently South Korea leads -1 vs -2), then overall goals scored (South Korea leads 2 vs 0), then overal yellow cards (currently tied 3 each), then draw of lots
*B comes down to overal goal difference (currently Portugal leads +3 vs 0), then overall goals scored (curreltny tied 5 each), then head-to-head (Portugal won)
*C comes down to overal goal difference (currently Ghana leads 0 vs -1), then overall goals scored (currently Ghana leads 5 vs 2), then head-to-head (Ghana won)



<table border=2><tr><td>Group H<td>Brazil wins<td>draw Bra - Cmr<td>Cameroon wins
<tr><td>Switzerland wins<td><table border=1><tr><td>1 Brazil 9<tr><td>2 Switzerland 6<tr><td>3 & 4 Cameroon 1 *A<tr><td>3 & 4 Serbia 1 *A</table><td><table border=1><tr><td>1 Brazil 7<tr><td>2 Switzerland 6<tr><td>3 Cameroon 2<tr><td>4 Serbia 1</table><td><table border=1><tr><td>1 & 2 Brazil 6 *<tr><td>1 & 2 Switzerland 6 *<tr><td>3 Cameroon 4<tr><td>4 Serbia 1</table>
<tr><td>draw Sui - Srb<td><table border=1><tr><td>1 Brazil 9<tr><td>2 Switzerland 4<tr><td>3 Serbia 2<tr><td>4 Cameroon 1</table><td><table border=1><tr><td>1 Brazil 7<tr><td>2 Switzerland 4<tr><td>3 & 4 Cameroon 2 *A<tr><td>3 & 4 Serbia 2 *A</table><td><table border=1><tr><td>1 Brazil 6<tr><td>2 & 3 Switzerland 4 *C<tr><td>2 & 3 Cameroon 4 *C<tr><td>4 Serbia 2</table>
<tr><td>Serbia wins<td><table border=1><tr><td>1 Brazil 9<tr><td>2 Serbia 4<tr><td>3 Switzerland 3<tr><td>4 Cameroon 1</table><td><table border=1><tr><td>1 Brazil 7<tr><td>2 Serbia 4<tr><td>3 Switzerland 3<tr><td>4 Cameroon 2</table><td><table border=1><tr><td>1 Brazil 6<tr><td>2 & 3 Cameroon 4 *A<tr><td>2 & 3 Serbia 4 *A<tr><td>4 Switzerland 3</table>
</table>
*A comes down to overall goal difference (currently Cameroon leads -1 vs -2), then overall goals scored (currently tied 3 each), then overall yellow cards (currently Cameroon leads 3 vs 5), then draw of lots
*B comes down to overall goal difference (currently Brazil leads +3 vs 0), then overall goals scored (currently Brazil leads 3 vs 1), then head-to-head (Brazil won)
*C comes down to overall goal difference (currently Switzerland leads 0 vs -1), then overall goals scored (currently Cameroon leads 3 vs 1), then head-to-head (Switzerland won)

[sovereignstar v2]

This will be glossed over I'm sure, but the entire Juve board resigns in the wake of financial irregularities that were found.

[miami_fan]

Does it keep them out of the Super League?

[miami_fan]

I know that there is a desire to keep politics out of the World Cup but after the buildup to USA v Iran, I think FIFA has to be ecstatic that one of the countries with be heading home today.

[RainMaker]

Is there no one better than Sargent to play? Can't they move Weah up and have Gio in there?

[bronconick]

They can't finish for shit.

[miami_fan]

The U.S.'s inability to control the ball is maddening.

[GrantDawg]

Christian needs to be ok.

Sent from my SM-G996U using Tapatalk

[sterlingice]

Thank god USA scored. Yes, I obviously want them to win. But this means Iran can't just spend the rest of the game screwing around and faking long injuries just to burn clock.

EDIT: And the US will keep attacking because 1-0 is still a dangerous place to be

SI

[RainMaker]

Am I wrong in thinking Pulisic took a big shot to the nuts?

[GrantDawg]

No, you are not wrong.

Sent from my SM-G996U using Tapatalk

[whomario]

Best finish of Weahs career and it's all for nothing ...

[RainMaker]

I'd like to see how close that offsides was.

[Solecismic]

A lot I don't understand about refereeing. Seemed like Adams got carded for absolutely nothing. I guess we no longer can anticipate future Pulisics suiting up for USA in the 2040s.

They left quite a few opportunities out there. Great pressure, Iran couldn't counter. I hope they don't go into a shell like they did against Wales. Iran isn't going to quit trying.

[Ghost Econ]

Aaronson for Pulisic

[Ghost Econ]

Man, Wales has quit

[sovereignstar v2]

Adams was given a yellow for egregiously stopping a counter attack. A tactical found worthy of a yellow.

[Ghost Econ]

Berhalter needs to make a double switch

[sterlingice]

Is Teremi as good as he's looked this game or is our defense that bad?

SI

[RainMaker]

Berhalter needs to make a double switch

He seems to wait too long.

[Ghost Econ]

I think it's clear something is going on with Reyna and Berhalter or Reyna and the team.

[Ghost Econ]

Thank God and fuck Berhalter. Every sub was shittier than the next.

[GrantDawg]

Tell me this match didn't have your butt clinched.

Sent from my SM-G996U using Tapatalk

[sterlingice]

Thank God and fuck Berhalter. Every sub was shittier than the next.

I don't know word one about him, but Zimmerman had a ton of won headers in the last 15+ minutes. That said, I'm not educated enough to say whether any of the subs were good or bad

SI

[HomerSimpson98]

I also liked what Aaronson brought. Dude works his ass off.

[JonInMiddleGA]

I don't know word one about him, but Zimmerman had a ton of won headers in the last 15+ minutes. That said, I'm not educated enough to say whether any of the subs were good or bad

SI

Pretty much what I came into the thread to say. Talking heads hated on Moore and Wright afterwards which I kinda understood their explanations for but I thought Zimmerman was absolutely clutch.

[miami_fan]

Is there no one better than Sargent to play? Can't they move Weah up and have Gio in there?

Well if there was any question before, it has been confirmed that Haji Wright at least not as someone who needs to hold the ball up. At the very least Sargent did that well.

If it is just a nut shot, I would expect Pulisic to play on Saturday. But that Sargent injury looked like at the very least meniscus damage.

[SirFozzie]

Pulisic is gone to the hospital. Ruptured testicle? They're saying "Abdominal"...

[GrantDawg]

Nvm. Sir Fozzie got it

[BishopMVP]

Pretty much what I came into the thread to say. Talking heads hated on Moore and Wright afterwards which I kinda understood their explanations for but I thought Zimmerman was absolutely clutch.Yeah Aaronson was needed (and an easy call) and I liked bringing Zimmerman in even if I'm not sure we know how to play a 5 man backline (though I didn't love pulling McKennie to do it). Unless Dest was dead tired not sure why Moore over him this game, would've preferred more ball possession, and Wright was just baffling. And finally I can't believe I'm saying this but it wasn't even Gio I wanted brought in (killing a 1-0 game when he'd have no support isn't his game) it was Jordan Morris. If you bring Jordan Morris to a World Cup that's when he's useful! Dude works hard at least, Haji Wright did not...

[BishopMVP]

Honestly with what they've shown just start Aaronson and play with multiple false 9's. If Pulisic is out, put Gio in that spot.

[Ghost Econ]

Pulisic misunderstood No Nut November.

[SirFozzie]

Hopefully Pulisic is ok. He's already posted something on IG from the hospital all fired up and swearing he'll be ready for Saturday.

https://www.facebook.com/foxsoccer/photos/10159649121362946

[albionmoonlight]

That sounds like a variation of would you rather/truth or dare that you would play in high school.

“you score a goal that lets the United States advance in the World Cup, but you get hit in the nuts so hard that you have to go to the hospital when you do it.”

[Ksyrup]

Pulisic is gone to the hospital. Ruptured testicle? They're saying "Abdominal"...

Abdominal is where they ended up.

[miami_fan]

Christian Pulisic diagnosed with 'pelvic contusion' and listed 'day-to-day' after violent collision in USMNT's win over Iran (https://sports.yahoo.com/christian-pulisic-diagnosed-with-pelvic-contusion-and-listed-day-to-day-after-violent-collision-in-usmn-ts-win-over-iran-000309043.html)

[GrantDawg]

Abdominal is where my nuts stayed most of that match.

Sent from my SM-G996U using Tapatalk

[RainMaker]

I still think they've got to find a way to get Reyna out there. Also maybe time to give Ferriera a chance.

Feels like leaving Pepi off was a big mistake.

[Critch]

Seems like Cristiano Ronaldo has signed to play for Al Nassr of the Saudi Arabian league for around $200million per year.

And seems like his old team Juventus is in serious trouble too. All their directors have resigned, apparently being investigated for false submissions to the Italian stock market and false accounting. They've been forced down the divisions before for dishonesty, this time they've added in serious illegal activities to get the Italian police involved too.

[PilotMan]

The ME Sheiks are learning that everyone really does have their price. Ted DiBiase was right all along.

[miami_fan]

I still think they've got to find a way to get Reyna out there. Also maybe time to give Ferriera a chance.

Feels like leaving Pepi off was a big mistake.

I would like to see Reyna come on as a impact sub but I don't know who I would take out of the starting lineup if everyone is still healthy. I guess Musah is the guy who have to cede his place to Gio. I am not convinced that Gio is fit enough to start especially if the U.S. is not dominating the ball. Ferriera should be given an opportunity for sure. I am not sure if leaving Pepi off was right or not. It would be nice to have another option I guess. He has been on fire in the Eredivisie the last couple of months but before that he went almost a year without getting a goal. We just don't have that top flight striker at this point. Hopefully one of the young guys develop into one.

[miami_fan]

The ME Sheiks are learning that everyone really does have their price. Ted DiBiase was right all along.

The man is just trying to make a living to feed his wife and children.

[sovereignstar v2]

Mexico are out on goal diff at this moment in time.

[Edward64]

Mexico are out on goal diff at this moment in time.

Watching the game and surprised that I’m entertained by it

[miami_fan]

The announcers on Telemundo tried their best to be objective but now they are just lashing out at everyone. The Saudis for time wasting, Michael Oliver for buying it, and the Argentinians for not scoring their chances.

[sovereignstar v2]

I goofed. They are out on fair play and need goal diff to change to get in.

[sovereignstar v2]

KSA scores. Bye bye Mexico

[Ghost Econ]

While it would have been even sweeter if Mexico had gone out on fair play, it still feels almost as good as the US moving on.

[HomerSimpson98]

That ending was pretty insane.

[albionmoonlight]

Abdominal is where my nuts stayed most of that match.

Sent from my SM-G996U using Tapatalk

Mrs. A was working in the next room while I was watching. And after the match she was shocked to find out we had one based on the exasperated noises I made throughout the second half.

[MIJB#19]

While it would have been even sweeter if Mexico had gone out on fair playThat would have felt just.

[Edward64]

FWIW, I was watching the Mexico vs KSA game and wondered how much players run in a game.

How Far Do Soccer Players Run In A Game? (+ Most Athletic Players) â—‹ 2022 (https://soccerblade.com/soccer-players-run/)
On average soccer players run 7 miles per game with a high of 10 miles. This can be as low as 2 miles for a goalkeeper. This is a combination of short sprints and longer distances.

[Critch]

1978 World Cup, Argentina missed a penalty in their third group game (Kempes missed against Italy). Argentina went on to win the World Cup.

1986 World Cup, Argentina missed a penalty in their third group game (Maradona missed against Bulgaria). Argentina went on to win the World Cup.

2022 World Cup, Argentina missed a penalty in their third group game.

It's written in the stars.

[Ghost Econ]

Canada knows you don't go empty net in soccer, right?

[sovereignstar v2]

That is not a penalty.

[Critch]

Lukaku. Dear oh dear. What a carthorse.

[Ghost Econ]

I don't think I've seen a team care less than Belgium. Did they not realize a draw sends them home?

[Ksyrup]

Lukaku. Dear oh dear. What a carthorse.

I felt bad for him, watching him after the match. However, he's fortunate he's not from Brazil...

Also, I didn't watch all 3 games, but Kevin de Bruyne seemed mostly invisible from what I watched. Which seems impossible.

[Ksyrup]

What's the worst loss a team that has made it through to the final 16 ever had in group stage? Costa Rica has a decent shot to make it through despite a 7-0 loss. That's got to be unusual, right?

[whomario]

Good grief... That save though :)

[whomario]

Spain about to eliminate Germany.

Well,never mind. They manage to do that themselves

[Ksyrup]

Damn, I've been watching the CR game and didn't even realize Japan scored twice. Since Fox is broadcasting both games, I don't understand why they can't show the other score in a box in the upper right corner instead of telling us we're watching the World Cup on Fox or FS1. Gee, thanks!

[Ksyrup]

Costa Rica!

This holding up for 25 more minutes though...

[whomario]

Lol what

[whomario]

Costa Rica!

This holding up for 25 more minutes though...

German players nerves are shot.

[Solecismic]

They think everyone's watching with a cell phone glued to their hands, and have other apps that tell them what they want to know about other matches. I've noticed the NFL telecasts no longer have crawls. It really feels like I've stepped back 20 years in time when I watch games now. Expecting alcohol and Oldsmobile ads any week now.

[Ksyrup]

Or holding up for 5 minutes...

[Lathum]

These guys fighting over the ball, lol...

[whomario]

I repeat: lol what ?

[Ghost Econ]

I go to pick up my daughter from school and all hell breaks loose.

I hope Costa Rica win so they can go through on 6 points with -5 goal difference.

[whomario]

Too early, now Spain will stop trying

[Ksyrup]

Germany, again. This one is all but over.

[Solecismic]

Japan now hanging on for dear life and to avoid elimination with the German goal. Seems they've been in the back third for 30 straight minutes.

[GrantDawg]

Germans running away with it

[GrantDawg]

Japan trying to will the clock to move faster

[whomario]

Well,Spain is trying but not getting any good chances ...

Ginter finally getting on the pitch in his 3rd WC

[GrantDawg]

Great job, Japan!

[Solecismic]

Well, who had Japan beating Germany and Spain, but losing to Costa Rica, who gave up enough goals to fuel an entire group in their other matches?

[MIJB#19]

What's the worst loss a team that has made it through to the final 16 ever had in group stage? Costa Rica has a decent shot to make it through despite a 7-0 loss. That's got to be unusual, right?It would have been the largest loss while still advancing.

Closest thing, West Germany lost 8-3 to Hungary in 1954, but still finished 2nd in the group and eventually beat Hungary 3-2 in the final.


Next closest:
Cameroon lost 4-0 to the USSR in 1990 in the final group match, but still won that group with world champions Argentina and Romania.

Ukraine lost 4-0 to Spain in 2006, but still finished 2nd in thew group behind Spain.

[SirFozzie]

Man, the UEFA old guard are showing their age. No Germany, no Belgium in the knockout stages (and no Italy at all)....

[Ghost Econ]

Japan beat Germany and Spain while losing to Costa Rica 1-0, while Costa Rica lost 11-2 to Germany and Spain.

[MIJB#19]

It wouldn't surprise me if Spain purposely played for the loss against Japan once they found out 2nd place was safe, making it Japan vs Croatia and Spain vs Morocco in the next round, while also likely avoiding Brazil in the quarterfinals as well.

[BishopMVP]

Japan beat Germany and Spain while losing to Costa Rica 1-0, while Costa Rica lost 11-2 to Germany and Spain.
Japan also bizarrely didn't play their best players vs Costa Rica, though I guess it was the right move!

[miami_fan]

We have one more day of the group stage. Let's see how the confederations are doing.

CAF- Africa had 5 teams get in. 2(Senegal and Morocco) have moved on to the final 16. 2 more are possible (Cameroon and Ghana). 0 teams are currently in last place in their group but Cameroon and Ghana could both finish last after play is done. 4 out of 5 teams in the last 16 would be amazing.

AFC- Asia had 6 teams get in. The host, 4 automatics plus one through the playoff. 2(Japan and Australia) have moved on to the final 16. South Korea is the 1 possible left to make the next round. They have 2 teams who came last in their groups (Qatar and Saudi Arabia) and South Korea is also a DFL possibility.

UEFA- 13 teams in. 7 (France, Portugal, Netherlands, England, Poland, Croatia and Spain) in the 16. 1 more possible between Switzerland and Serbia. Wales and Denmark brought up the rear in their groups. The Swiss or the Serbs could also bring up the rear of their group.

CONMEBOL- It is still shocking for me to type that only 4 teams made it in to the World Cup from South America. Brazil and Argentina are through. No CONMEBOL team has finished bottom of their group. Uruguay has the possibility of going through or finishing bottom.

CONCACAF- 4 teams made it. The U.S. is the only CONCACAF team to make it to the next round. 2 teams (Canada and Costa Rica) came in last in their groups.

[Ksyrup]

That was one of the worst PKs I've ever seen. That dude should have just walked away and asked someone else to take it. Long pause, 2 stutter steps, then a weak kick. That was beyond awful.

[Ghost Econ]

Ghana missing penalties against Uruguay... where have I seen this before?

[MIJB#19]

The final 10 minutes in the Ghana - Uruguay match were pretty entertaining.

[Solecismic]

Seems strange to rest your top offensive players for the next round when you're only one goal elsewhere from being out of the tournament. Unless they were exhausted - television was on the other match until it ended.

I hope the referees get out OK. That looked like it could get ugly fast, with all those yellows after the match ended.

Why was the Uruguay match so much later than the Portugal match? I thought they coordinated them to avoid giving one squad information that could help. In this case, giving several extra minutes of desperation mode to Uruguay after the South Korea goal.

[Edward64]

The South Korea vs Portugal game was pretty entertaining. Saw the 2nd SK goal.

Changed to the other match, and did see the refs being accosted after the match. Do they have security for the refs?

[Ksyrup]

Yeah, I'm glad Uruguay lost because when you go physically after refs instead of shouldering the blame for coming up short, you dont deserve to move on.

On a related note, I believe Suarez got more screen time sitting on the sidelines than any non-participant in a sporting event I've watched since networks bizarrely decided we wanted to see Kurt Warner's wife instead of football games about 20 years ago.

[albionmoonlight]

since networks bizarrely decided we wanted to see Kurt Warner's wife instead of football games about 20 years ago.

What a (accurate) blast from the past.

[Solecismic]

Reading the BBC commentary... seems people are happier that Uruguay is out than in England winning their group. To them, they're the poster children for the cheating, diving, harassing the refs style of play that often makes me glad they don't have the World Cup every year. To me, it seems every squad does this.

The story so far seems to be how much the world is catching up to Europe and South America. More competitive matches, some surprising results. I now see why they wanted to expand to 48. It takes a lot of the drama out of the qualifying process, but there is more depth now. If only they'd expand the group stages as well.

[Solecismic]

What a (accurate) blast from the past.

Hard to forget that. That was right at the beginning of the collective network decision to "tell fan stories" rather than focus on the field between plays.

So each game, they'd bring in more of these expensive new cameras and focus them on individual fans all day and night.

Completely ruined baseball that way. It's not meant to be a game watched close up anywhere. And poor Mrs. Warner (Brenda?) was a memorable choice because the Rams were national so often with that incredible offense.

[Ksyrup]

That was the most screen time Warner's wife had gotten since she replaced Charlotte Rae on Facts of Life.

[miami_fan]

Why was the Uruguay match so much later than the Portugal match? I thought they coordinated them to avoid giving one squad information that could help. In this case, giving several extra minutes of desperation mode to Uruguay after the South Korea goal.

Extra time. The URU/GHA match had 9 minutes of extra time in the first half and then 10 minutes in the second half. KOR/POR was +3 and +7 respectively.

[Ksyrup]

Scenarios for next Friday:
<table border=2><tr><td>Group G<td>Portugal wins<td>draw Por - Kor<td>South Korea wins
<tr><td>Ghana wins<td><table border=1><tr><td>1 Portugal 9<tr><td>2 Ghana 6<tr><td>3 & 4 South Korea 1 *A<tr><td>3 & 4 Uruguay 1 *A</table><td><table border=1><tr><td>1 Portugal 7<tr><td>2 Ghana 6<tr><td>3 South Korea 2<tr><td>4 Uruguay 1</table><td><table border=1><tr><td>1 & 2 Portugal 6 *B<tr><td>1 & 2 Ghana 6 *B<tr><td>3 South Korea 4<tr><td>4 Uruguay 1</table>
<tr><td>draw Gha - Uru<td><table border=1><tr><td>1 Portugal 9<tr><td>2 Ghana 4<tr><td>3 Uruguay 2<tr><td>4 South Korea 1</table><td><table border=1><tr><td>1 Portugal 7<tr><td>2 Ghana 4<tr><td>3 & 4 South Korea 2 *A<tr><td>3 & 4 Uruguay 2 *A</table><td><table border=1><tr><td>1 Portugal 6<tr><td>2 & 3 Ghana 4 *C<tr><td>2 & 3 South Korea 4 *C<tr><td>4 Uruguay 2</table>
<tr><td>Uruguay wins<td><table border=1><tr><td>1 Portugal 9<tr><td>2 Uruguay 4<tr><td>3 Ghana 3<tr><td>4 South Korea 1</table><td><table border=1><tr><td>1 Portugal 7<tr><td>2 Uruguay 4<tr><td>3 Ghana 3<tr><td>4 South Korea 2</table><td><table border=1><tr><td>1 Portugal 6<tr><td>2 & 3 South Korea 4 *A<tr><td>2 & 3 Uruguay 4 *A<tr><td>4 Ghana 3</table>
</table>
*A comes down to overall goal difference (currently South Korea leads -1 vs -2), then overall goals scored (South Korea leads 2 vs 0), then overal yellow cards (currently tied 3 each), then draw of lots
*B comes down to overal goal difference (currently Portugal leads +3 vs 0), then overall goals scored (curreltny tied 5 each), then head-to-head (Portugal won)
*C comes down to overal goal difference (currently Ghana leads 0 vs -1), then overall goals scored (currently Ghana leads 5 vs 2), then head-to-head (Ghana won)



<table border=2><tr><td>Group H<td>Brazil wins<td>draw Bra - Cmr<td>Cameroon wins
<tr><td>Switzerland wins<td><table border=1><tr><td>1 Brazil 9<tr><td>2 Switzerland 6<tr><td>3 & 4 Cameroon 1 *A<tr><td>3 & 4 Serbia 1 *A</table><td><table border=1><tr><td>1 Brazil 7<tr><td>2 Switzerland 6<tr><td>3 Cameroon 2<tr><td>4 Serbia 1</table><td><table border=1><tr><td>1 & 2 Brazil 6 *<tr><td>1 & 2 Switzerland 6 *<tr><td>3 Cameroon 4<tr><td>4 Serbia 1</table>
<tr><td>draw Sui - Srb<td><table border=1><tr><td>1 Brazil 9<tr><td>2 Switzerland 4<tr><td>3 Serbia 2<tr><td>4 Cameroon 1</table><td><table border=1><tr><td>1 Brazil 7<tr><td>2 Switzerland 4<tr><td>3 & 4 Cameroon 2 *A<tr><td>3 & 4 Serbia 2 *A</table><td><table border=1><tr><td>1 Brazil 6<tr><td>2 & 3 Switzerland 4 *C<tr><td>2 & 3 Cameroon 4 *C<tr><td>4 Serbia 2</table>
<tr><td>Serbia wins<td><table border=1><tr><td>1 Brazil 9<tr><td>2 Serbia 4<tr><td>3 Switzerland 3<tr><td>4 Cameroon 1</table><td><table border=1><tr><td>1 Brazil 7<tr><td>2 Serbia 4<tr><td>3 Switzerland 3<tr><td>4 Cameroon 2</table><td><table border=1><tr><td>1 Brazil 6<tr><td>2 & 3 Cameroon 4 *A<tr><td>2 & 3 Serbia 4 *A<tr><td>4 Switzerland 3</table>
</table>
*A comes down to overall goal difference (currently Cameroon leads -1 vs -2), then overall goals scored (currently tied 3 each), then overall yellow cards (currently Cameroon leads 3 vs 5), then draw of lots
*B comes down to overall goal difference (currently Brazil leads +3 vs 0), then overall goals scored (currently Brazil leads 3 vs 1), then head-to-head (Brazil won)
*C comes down to overall goal difference (currently Switzerland leads 0 vs -1), then overall goals scored (currently Cameroon leads 3 vs 1), then head-to-head (Switzerland won)

BTW, thanks for these. They have been invaluable as I try to make sense of what's going on in real time.

[Solecismic]

Extra time. The URU/GHA match had 9 minutes of extra time in the first half and then 10 minutes in the second half. KOR/POR was +3 and +7 respectively.

Certainly, the second half is obvious. With the emphasis on adding extra time where warranted (a good decision, I think) and technology making instant updates available wherever you are, I'm surprised they didn't give the Portugal match a longer halftime break. I noticed when South Korea scored in the 91st minute, Uruguay was in the 84th.

Serbia/Switzerland seems fun, goals flying back and forth with everything on the line. Fox is giving us a relaxed Brazil against a game, but thoroughly outclassed Cameroon. That's a shame.

[MIJB#19]

BTW, thanks for these. They have been invaluable as I try to make sense of what's going on in real time.Thanks. It was quite the pleasure to make them and I figured there'd be at least one other person out there interested in having these available without needing to keep a spreadsheet nearby to keep track.

[Solecismic]

Thanks. It was quite the pleasure to make them and I figured there'd be at least one other person out there interested in having these available without needing to keep a spreadsheet nearby to keep track.

Yours are more accurate than at least a couple of major sources, as well, including FIFA's own site.

[MIJB#19]

Certainly, the second half is obvious. With the emphasis on adding extra time where warranted (a good decision, I think) and technology making instant updates available wherever you are, I'm surprised they didn't give the Portugal match a longer halftime break. I noticed when South Korea scored in the 91st minute, Uruguay was in the 84th.It seems like an easy fix to me to make the second halves also start at the same time like the first half. Would it really harm to have South Korea and Portugal wait 5 additional matches to kick off the second half?

[MIJB#19]

Serbia/Switzerland seems fun, goals flying back and forth with everything on the line. Fox is giving us a relaxed Brazil against a game, but thoroughly outclassed Cameroon. That's a shame.And the second half continues to deliver. :D

[miami_fan]

Certainly, the second half is obvious. With the emphasis on adding extra time where warranted (a good decision, I think) and technology making instant updates available wherever you are, I'm surprised they didn't give the Portugal match a longer halftime break. I noticed when South Korea scored in the 91st minute, Uruguay was in the 84th.

Yeah that feels like too much of an attempt to manufacture the drama. Uruguay had 45 minutes to increase their goal difference to insure their progression to the knockouts.

Let's be honest. I would not put it pass Luis Suarez to fake a catastrophic knee injury for 25 minutes in order to make sure that Uruguay had extra time to see what was required to make it through.:devil:

[Edward64]

So close to a real fight in the Switzerland Serbia game.

[MIJB#19]

What a silly mistake to take off your shirt while already being booked, but Brazil going 1-0 down in a nothing to lose was never in doubt, was it? It would be nice for Switzerland to go for it now, 4-2 means winning the group now, while 3-3 keeps them in second place. Although 2-0 for Cameroon would also work in Swiss' favor (but not if it's 3-3 in the Swiss' match).

[miami_fan]

So close to a real fight in the Switzerland Serbia game.

An explainer for anyone unaware of the tensions between the two teams.

Qatar World Cup: Switzerland vs. Serbia Match Is Really All About Kosovo (https://foreignpolicy.com/2022/12/02/switzerland-serbia-kosovo-soccer-world-cup-qatar/)

[Edward64]

Thanks. It's behind a paywall but was able to read the first couple paragraphs and got the idea. Runs deeper than just poor sportsmanship.

[Ksyrup]

Interesting, thanks.

[MIJB#19]

When all is said and done, Qatar will be ranked 32nd out the 32 teams of this year's finals tournament field, making Qatar by far the worst host nation in World Cup history.
Ranks of the teams knocked out in the first round: 17 Germany, 18 Ecuador, 19 Mexico, 20 Cameroon, 21 Uruguay, 22 Tunisia, 23 Belgium, 24 Ghana, 25 Saudi Arabia, 26 Iran, 27 Costa Rica, 28 Denmark, 29 Serbia, 30 Wales, 31 Canada, 32 Qatar.

[MIJB#19]

Curiously, all 3 teams that were already qualified for the Round of 16 after their first two matches, which is only possible with 2 victories, lost their 3rd group match: France 1-0 vs Tunisia, Portugal 2-1 vs South Korea and Brazil 1-0 vs Cameroon. All three still won their group.

The only 2 teams knocked out after their first two matches, which is only possible with 2 losses, both also lost their final group match: Qatar 2-0 vs Netherlands and Canada 2-1 vs Morocco.

[PilotMan]

Alright boyz....let's go!!!

[GrantDawg]

Alright boyz....let's go!!!
Hype!!!!
<samp class="EmbedCode-container"><code class="EmbedCode-code"><blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">BEAT THE DUTCH<br><br>🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸 <a href="https://t.co/OMk1RTbcgp">pic.twitter.com/OMk1RTbcgp</a></p>&mdash; Eric Hubbs (@BarstoolHubbs) <a href="https://twitter.com/BarstoolHubbs/status/1599032971012366336?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 3, 2022</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script> </code></samp>

[Lathum]

Gotta convert chances like that

[GrantDawg]

Gotta convert chances like that
So painfully close.

[Ghost Econ]

Well, at least we might see Reyna before the 85th minute.

[PilotMan]

The opening tactics aren't going to cut it now with the Dutch content to play a lot of defense and counter. We'll need to keep playing aggressive.

[Ghost Econ]

MMA Midfield looks exhausted and the Dutch are content to make any attack have to start with Ream or Zimmerman.

Pulisic has disappeared after the first 5 minutes.

[Ksyrup]

The relative lack of finishing skill is apparent.

[sovereignstar v2]

Game, set, and match

[GrantDawg]

That would be the match. I just don't see three goals coming from the US.

[bronconick]

See you in '26

[Ksyrup]

Man I called that. After that short, unsuccessful flurry in their box I told my daughter - this is where good teams turn it around and score before half. Sure enough...

[Ghost Econ]

Halftime needs wholesale changes unless we care about getting blown out. Reyna, Aaronson, LDLT and CCV for Ferreira, Musah, McKennie and Zimmerman.

[Critch]

Fox coverage review:

Landon Donovan - talks a lot of sense, gives good insight.
Clint Dempsey - same, but sometimes seems like he needs a prod to actually say anything
Alexi Lalas - shut up! shut up! shut up!

[RainMaker]

Ok now I know why Ferreira wasn't playing.

[sterlingice]

I thought being down 1-0 was not the worst place for the US to be. The Dutch were content to just sit back and play around. Sure, the US had to expend some energy but after that little flurry around the 15-25 minute mark, everyone was content to just let the US attack and they didn't have to defend much except for a couple of weak counters. Unfortunately, that all unraveled in the last few minutes

SI

[Ghost Econ]

Musah is exhausted and needs to be subbed.

[sovereignstar v2]

Lol. US forwards in a class of their own

[Ksyrup]

The relative lack of finishing skill is apparent.

I repeat.

[sovereignstar v2]

Masterclass by Wright. Move over Lionel

[albionmoonlight]

As a guy who does not follow this much at all, I was happy with the US this tournament. They seemed to have a chance and they played like it, versus the last few cups where they played like they were just trying to lose by as little as possible.

[cuervo72]

As a guy who does not follow this much at all, I was happy with the US this tournament. They seemed to have a chance and they played like it, versus the last few cups where they played like they were just trying to lose by as little as possible.

As another guy who really doesn't follow this at all, isn't this the cycle this team is perpetually in? Make it to the knockout stage, get immediately knocked out, everyone all THIS TEAM IS ON THE RIGHT TRACK! THIS IS GOING TO SPARK A WHOLE NEW INTEREST IN SOCCER!! Next time, either they don't make it out of the group stage or don't make the tournament. Wringing of hands. Rinse, repeat.

[GrantDawg]

Next time they are in guaranteed as a host country. If they can go on a good run in 4 years, it will be big.

Sent from my SM-G996U using Tapatalk

[MIJB#19]

Next time, either they don't make it out of the group stage or don't make the tournament.Next time it will be the obnoxious 48-country format. The USA will get a 3-team group, with one opponent on the level of Wales and Iran and the 3rd opponent the level of a team that didn't make the final tournament. Not to mention that it's likely they will be handed a favorable schedule where a stalemate 0-0 draw in their final group match will put them and their opponents that day both into the round of 32.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Next time it will be the obnoxious 48-country format.

I think I just figured out what the model for the CFP must be.

"Don't stop until there are more teams involved than there are relatively competitive teams"

[Solecismic]

It was definitely a different vibe than Cups past for the USA team. They have some energetic, skilled young players.

I was fooled into thinking they had solved some defensive issues after going through the group stage with no goals allowed other than the penalty. Some serious lapses, not really understanding how a counter-attack offense works. The back four can't ever stop watching, even for a second.

They obviously could use a great finisher, but those don't come along very often. Pulisic is a gamer, you could see he wasn't 100% and was playing in some pain there. 75% of Pulisic is still a big asset. I think I'm thoroughly tired of Dest, though he'd probably be really good at eating time with a one-goal lead in the closing moments - if he ever lasted that long.

[BishopMVP]

Next time it will be the obnoxious 48-country format. The USA will get a 3-team group, with one opponent on the level of Wales and Iran and the 3rd opponent the level of a team that didn't make the final tournament. Not to mention that it's likely they will be handed a favorable schedule where a stalemate 0-0 draw in their final group match will put them and their opponents that day both into the round of 32.
It's not finalized yet. Fingers crossed FIFA realizes how dumb 3 team groups are and moves to 12 4's at least by then. Which somehow wasn't even an option when they initially debated 48.

[MIJB#19]

It's not finalized yet. Fingers crossed FIFA realizes how dumb 3 team groups are and moves to 12 4's at least by then. Which somehow wasn't even an option when they initially debated 48.I would hope it's not final yet, but until then, I'll ridicule the broken 3-team group idea anytime the WC2026 format gets mentioned. :D

[BishopMVP]

I would hope it's not final yet, but until then, I'll ridicule the broken 3-team group idea anytime the WC2026 format gets mentioned. :DWhy not? It's not like we've just seen how important having the last group matches at the same time are, and how much drama they can create.

[sovereignstar v2]

Want to see England and their six City players (I count Jude as one already) advance, but for the sake of the match I wish Mane was playing for Senegal.

[miami_fan]

Oh England just needed me to come in from hanging up the Christmas lights and watch the match to score?

[flere-imsaho]

Next time it will be the obnoxious 48-country format. The USA will get a 3-team group, with one opponent on the level of Wales and Iran and the 3rd opponent the level of a team that didn't make the final tournament. Not to mention that it's likely they will be handed a favorable schedule where a stalemate 0-0 draw in their final group match will put them and their opponents that day both into the round of 32.

I haven't been paying attention, but is the plan that the round of 32 will be made up of 16 group winners and 16 runners-up? So the group stage only eliminates 16 teams (who likely wouldn't have made previous finals)?

In most groups that's going to mean only one game, at most, is meaningful. Like, Brazil gets grouped with Scotland and Ivory Coast and annhiliates both of them. So, Scotland vs. Ivory Coast is the only game that matters, and since they're both on 0 points, goal difference doesn't matter. Sure, I guess that's fun for Scotland and Ivory Coast fans, but what was the point of making Brazil play two pushover games?

Oh wait, money. :D

[flere-imsaho]

It was definitely a different vibe than Cups past for the USA team. They have some energetic, skilled young players.

Yeah, the difference this time seems to be that basically the whole team is young, and the few who aren't are apparently replaceable. Usually in the past there's some star in his prime (or just barely past it) that the USA was trying to leverage, but the one star here, Pulisic, is still pre-prime.

I was fooled into thinking they had solved some defensive issues after going through the group stage with no goals allowed other than the penalty.

That's kind of the problem with group stages. If England had really needed a win I think (or would hope) that Southgate would have played a more aggressive team and/or style, so the result there makes one think the US was better than we thought.

Honestly, I think the defense did about as expected for a starting 5 that includes a reserve keeper for Arsenal who doesn't play, a fullback for Milan who hasn't broken into the team, two defenders on EPL team Fulham who have let in more goals than all but 4 teams in that league, and another defender who plays in the MLS, which is closer to the Scottish Championship in quality than, say, the UK's 2nd tier.

The same idea runs through most of the rest of the squad, who are either playing for teams that run the gamut from, say, the Eredivisie to the MLS, or are on English/Italian/German/Spanish teams and either a) not playing regularly or b) not playing with a lot of distinction.

But arguably this is a positive. You have so many young players already in top or near-top leagues and so starting to get better competition, that it's potentially reasonable to expect a much greater proportion in 4 years to be coming in with strong experience in those top leagues, which will make a lot of difference.


In the meantime, however, USA Soccer and whomever the HC continues to be needs to determine if a 9 is going to emerge from that group (my understanding is that Reyna is not a 9) or if they can play without a true 9. That's tough to do at the international level, when you can't really control where they play. Maybe Reyna can be a great False 9 which would unlock Pulisic and Weah (if he continues to improve), but do we see Dortmund playing him as a False 9? I don't think you can get cute like this at international level unless you have players playing unique positions regularly for their club teams.

[miami_fan]

Do we need spoilers for today's matches?

[Ghost Econ]

We need something other than a penalty for when your fouled at the edge of the box running away from goal.

[Solecismic]

Generally, it's odd to spoiler events that are shown live. Especially major ones, where you'll see the score on the front page of most sports sites. I wouldn't start a new item with "Netherlands 3, USA 1" immediately after the match here, but I would stay away from the internet entirely if I had DVRed a match and didn't want to see anything.

I did with the USA/Netherlands match, but my wife gave it away simply by the tone of her "I know you're taping this, so I won't say anything." I've been with her too long not to know when she's excited to talk about something and when she isn't.

Given the way Japan had played in group stage and Croatia not being one of the big five or six heavily favored squads out there, maybe that was the most compelling of the round of 16. The match going on right now doesn't exactly fall into the intriguing category. I guess you never know, but it seems like the extra time added for celebrations will make this the longest match of the entire tournament.

[miami_fan]

The match going on right now doesn't exactly fall into the intriguing category. I guess you never know, but it seems like the extra time added for celebrations will make this the longest match of the entire tournament.

The possibility of a 7-1 OR 9-0?

[MIJB#19]

In most groups that's going to mean only one game, at most, is meaningful. Like, Brazil gets grouped with Scotland and Ivory Coast and annhiliates both of them. So, Scotland vs. Ivory Coast is the only game that matters, and since they're both on 0 points, goal difference doesn't matter. Sure, I guess that's fun for Scotland and Ivory Coast fans, but what was the point of making Brazil play two pushover games?Yes. Except that in schedule situations that doesn't work out that way. Here's a couple of collaboration scenarios that could wind down:

Brazil 2-0 Scotland
Scotland 1-1 Ivory Coast; Brazil to 2nd round
Brazil 0-0 Ivory Coast; Scotland fucked

Ivory Coast 1-1 Scotland
Brazil 2-0 Ivory Coast; Brazil to 2nd round
Brazil 0-0 Scotland; Ivory Coast fucked

Ivory Coast 0-0 Scotland
Brazil 1-1 Scotland; nobody qualified yet?
Brazil 2-2 Ivory Coast; Scotland fucked

/rant

[MIJB#19]

... and if Brazil actually plays both the first and second match:
Brazil 2-0 Scotland
Brazil 1-0 Ivory Coast; Brazil qualifies
Ivory Coast parks the bus vs Scotland
or
Brazil 2-0 Scotland
Brazil 0-1 Ivory Coast; Brazil qualifies
Ivory Coast parks the bus vs Scotland
or
Brazil 2-0 Scotland
Brazil 0-0 Ivory Coast; Brazil qualifies
Ivory Coast parks the bus vs Scotland

[flere-imsaho]

Yeah, that's not good reading, MIJB....

[flere-imsaho]

The sad part here is that absent corruption or the grasping need for FIFA to make as much money as possible, you could probably have a reasonable discussion about what kind of format delivers the best results, starting by defining "best".

Let's say the goals were to a) incorporate a lot of teams and b) have fewer meaningless games. If you had to stick with 3-team groups because of overall duration, then let each group winner get in, but pick the other 16 on points, then GF, then GD, regardless of group. Better yet, go to 12 groups of 4, let the top two get in, and then another 8 based on points, then GF, then GD, regardless of group. Then instead of pre-planning groups against groups, just seed by tier 1-32:

Group winners are 1-12 based on points, then GF, then GD.
Group runners-up are 13-24, based on points, then GF, then GD.
Lucky bitches are 25-32, based on points, then GF, then GD.

[RainMaker]

Yeah, the difference this time seems to be that basically the whole team is young, and the few who aren't are apparently replaceable. Usually in the past there's some star in his prime (or just barely past it) that the USA was trying to leverage, but the one star here, Pulisic, is still pre-prime.

They have way more talent than I can ever remember. Like you said, used to have 1 or 2 stars in their prime but not much else. Now they have a much deeper team.

Feels like their midfield is set for the next cycle. They'll need to figure out CB, but it appears there are options. The rumor mill keeps talking about Balogun committing which would be a really nice answer up front.

They still need to upgrade from Berhalter if they want to ever be serious about competing with the elite teams. What they choose to do with that will say a lot about the future direction of the team.

[flere-imsaho]

I'm perfectly fine with the Brazilians dancing to celebrate their goals, because this is supposed to be entertainment, but it would have been classy if, when South Korea scored what was an excellent goal they gave the player some kudos on the field.

[miami_fan]

Is there an international manager that their country's fans actually like?

[Solecismic]

If you've DVRed this one, just skip regulation time. I might edit this to skipping the overtime periods in a half-hour or so.

The referee could have added a lot of extra time for all the Moroccan rolling about on the turf, but I think he's had enough of Spain's eternal possession without threat, too.

[Ghost Econ]

Making 1000 passes and putting 1 shot on target is not what would be considered efficient.

[Solecismic]

Added time had at least some moments. Morocco's finishing makes the USA look deadly by comparison. Spain actually took some interest in the goal, but the best chance, right at the end, was an impossible angle and glanced off the post. On to penalty kicks, which I think was Morocco's strategy since the game of soccer was invented.

[sovereignstar v2]

.............

[Ksyrup]

Remarkable.

[Solecismic]

The Spanish efforts were so awful they might as well have tried passing to teammates on the sidelines. Morocco's were hardly better, but it was more than enough. What an awful display of soccer today.

[Ghost Econ]

It's like the goal was water and Spain has rabies.

[Critch]

Today was the first game I skipped, a boring defensive team against a boring possession team, had 0-0 written all over it.

Not holding out much hope for the next game either.

[miami_fan]

Act like you’ve been there Morocco! All this excessive celebration is too much! Stop acting like you have already won the World Cup!

#sarcasm

[whomario]

Ronaldo on the bench

[miami_fan]

My mother in law (half Spanish, half German) has spent the last 45 minutes with her sister yelling and cussing about the Spanish defeat. Tactics, heart, management are all being slaughtered. She will definitely spend most of the night doing her rosary for these sins.:lol:

[Ghost Econ]

Ramos >>>> Ronaldo

[whomario]

Goal of the tournament so far this 4-0, perfection from start to finish.

[sovereignstar v2]

Ronaldo >> Ramos >> Cristiano Ronaldo

[miami_fan]

This might be the most delightful result of the tournament for me. I feel for the Swiss but Portugal being dominated, Ramos getting a hat trick and Ronaldo not scoring is a perfect scenario for me.

[flere-imsaho]

Ronaldo's appeal to potential suitors in the January transfer window just cratered. I think he's looking at China or Saudi Arabia at this point. He's a net negative to any team not explicity set up to feed him the ball in high xG situations, and even then it appears he can no longer convert those at the rate he used to.

[miami_fan]

Ronaldo's appeal to potential suitors in the January transfer window just cratered. I think he's looking at China or Saudi Arabia at this point. He's a net negative to any team not explicity set up to feed him the ball in high xG situations, and even then it appears he can no longer convert those at the rate he used to.

I think you are forgetting the dearth of competent strikers in club football. Diego Costa just signed with a club because they needed a striker. Also, club owners know they will make a mint selling Ronaldo shirts around the world to all the Ronaldo fans. Finally, I also think Ronaldo needs to be in a system that is explicitly set up for him to score goals. But it is equally important for him that we see him score those goals. Now he may go to China or Saudi because he has to take the two hundred million euros per season to feed his family. His pride may not allow him to lower himself to play for clubs that did not make the top ten on Forbes most valued clubs lists. However, Ronaldo can definitely still play for a mid level club in one of the top European leagues and there are definitely clubs that will scrap everything they do to get him in their club colors.

[flere-imsaho]

Agreed, generally, but I should have added the context that he's going to be holding out for a club still in the UCL or (possibly) the Europa league, and I don't know how many of those need a striker so badly that they're willing to gamble like that.

I do agree that there are definitely plenty of European teams who will be happy to sign him for the commercial revenue alone.

[flere-imsaho]

dola, I mean, that's what makes this so fascinating. Based on how he was playing for Man Utd this Autumn, he's still somewhat in denial about his declining abilities, so a team that signs him is going to have to try and figure out how to work around that in a way that doesn't compromise the team.

Specifically, it appears he still thinks he has the pace to play on the counter, but that's mostly not true anymore.

In addition, he's lost enough accuracy that he's no longer as lethal as he once was in penalty area situations.

He still wants to take free kicks, but his success rate has been declining there, too.

And, of course, he brings no defensive work rate.

My point is that you can probably define "here's how we could successfully use Ronaldo", but I don't think he's ready to agree to a role that adequately addresses his diminished abilities. So, he'll clog space because he wants the ball fed to him, he'll command a high usage rate, and he'll invite balls played on the counter that he can't turn into opportunities.

I still think he can be effective, perhaps very effective, for the right side, but all of these factors (including clubs willing to take risks, man-management abilities of various managers, etc...) are what makes this story so fascinating.

[sterlingice]

I don't know soccer at an international level very well but this sounds like Russell Westbrook the last few years

SI

[flere-imsaho]

It's really just been this season (the physical decline, at least). He still had good speed and lethal finishing for Man Utd last season (though his lack of off-the-ball movement was a key contributor to the team being predictable on offense).

[MIJB#19]

The way Cristiano Ronaldo talked Manchester United and its ownership down, how could he walk with a straight face into a club that doesn't still compete in the Champions' League and also isn't known for money grabbing? I mean, those two things just don't compute, it's either joining a circle jerk club or accept getting paid below €500K per day.

[miami_fan]

dola, I mean, that's what makes this so fascinating. Based on how he was playing for Man Utd this Autumn, he's still somewhat in denial about his declining abilities, so a team that signs him is going to have to try and figure out how to work around that in a way that doesn't compromise the team.

Specifically, it appears he still thinks he has the pace to play on the counter, but that's mostly not true anymore.

In addition, he's lost enough accuracy that he's no longer as lethal as he once was in penalty area situations.

He still wants to take free kicks, but his success rate has been declining there, too.

And, of course, he brings no defensive work rate.

My point is that you can probably define "here's how we could successfully use Ronaldo", but I don't think he's ready to agree to a role that adequately addresses his diminished abilities. So, he'll clog space because he wants the ball fed to him, he'll command a high usage rate, and he'll invite balls played on the counter that he can't turn into opportunities.

I still think he can be effective, perhaps very effective, for the right side, but all of these factors (including clubs willing to take risks, man-management abilities of various managers, etc...) are what makes this story so fascinating.

TBH, I am probably also in denial of what his physical abilities are right now because I think he still has the ability to perform at the highest level. I just think he has refused to put forth the effort other than to score goals to be top level consistently.

Is Ronaldo at 37 the same as Ronaldo at 27? Absolutely not. Can he perform at a Ballon d'Or level week in week out for an entire season? No. But can he do all the things that you listed (well besides free kicks) by just given a bit of effort and being less selfish? Absolutely. His desire for it to be all about him scoring goals has hurt him and his teams way more than any decline in his athletic ability or skills IMO.