Ongoing pro/college basketball thread (2023-24)

[Atocep]

Texas went 6-12 in conference play and was safely in. UNC went 1-12 in quad 1 games.

The committee claims player availability hurt WVU with Tucker DeVries being out. He's been out for 4 months and all over WVU's biggest wins were without him.

[RainMaker]

How did UNC make it? :lol:

[Atocep]

How did UNC make it? :lol:

The committee chair had to justify the extension he handed Hubert Davis.

[bhlloy]

WVU becomes the first team that was a unanimous selection in the bracket project, which tracks 111 bracket projections, to not make the NCAA tournament. UNC gets in as the last team, coincidentally their AD is the chair on the committee.

When asked by Seth about it that was some of the most awkward TV I've seen in a while. But yeah, total name/brand/$$$ pick, I think they'd have liked to have Indiana over Drake too but even they couldn't justify that.

[Atocep]

Of the 111 brackets tracked by the bracket project.

WVU was in on all 111.

Indiana was in on 90.

Texas was in on 50.

Xavier was in on 30.

UNC was in on 27.

[Kodos]

IU didn’t deserve to make it in. No loss there. Now we are clear of the season and can name a new coach.

[Drake]

IU didn’t deserve to make it in. No loss there. Now we are clear of the season and can name a new coach.

Agreed. I told my dad (who's a season ticket holder*) that we needed at least one win in the Big Ten tourney to have a real shot.

Like everything else this season, IU fell short when they needed it...which is a shame, because I liked the kids on this team, but they just didn't seem capable of playing like a team when it counted.

* My mom died in March of last year from pancreatic cancer. Dad, who's always been a huge IU fan, was considering returning to Texas for the winter, so my brothers and I managed to secure season tickets for him as a lure to keep him in Indiana and close to family.

[Kodos]

Sorry to hear about your mom, Drake. That’s awful.

[Radii]

How did UNC make it? :lol:

It's truly absurd.

[albionmoonlight]

How did UNC make it? :lol:

People look at that uniform and see Jordan, Worthy, Carter, etc.

The past is a powerful drug.

[miami_fan]

How did UNC make it? :lol:

Because the committee had to pick 68 teams instead of 65? Maybe 64?

WVU should have gotten in but not as a replacement for UNC. UNC should not not have made it but I think WVU were worthy of at least a 10 seed if UNC as the last team in got an 11 seed.

[RainMaker]

Of the 111 brackets tracked by the bracket project.

WVU was in on all 111.

Indiana was in on 90.

Texas was in on 50.

Xavier was in on 30.

UNC was in on 27.

I'm sort of surprised they were even on 27 of those. I saw some where they weren't even listed as a last 4 in. I know they played a tough schedule but they didn't beat anyone good all year it seems.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Ngl, this is pretty dirty stuff

South Alabama has NIT invite rescinded - 'Unacceptable' - ESPN (https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/44293002/south-alabama-nit-invite-rescinded-unacceptable)

[Ksyrup]

My boss is a U of L donor/season ticket holder and he's getting 2 tickets for Session 1 at Rupp on Thursday, so he's invited me to go with him (seeing as though I live 20 minutes from Rupp). Pretty cool. I've never been to an NCAA tournament game of any kind. Auburn plays in game 2.

[Ksyrup]

Anybody seen or used this before? Any idea which stats have historically mattered the most in the tournament?

Algebracket (https://algebracket.com/?w=F000000000000000000000000)

[Atocep]

And Lucy pulls the ball again! Charlie desperately tries to kick it anyway and lands on his back with a tremendous thud. His back is broken.

x.com (https://x.com/goodmanhoops/status/1890512582395465906)

Jeff Goodman
@GoodmanHoops
BREAKING: Boston Celtics president of basketball operations Brad Stevens told @TheFieldOf68
that he is not a candidate for the Indiana University job.

“I thoroughly appreciate being a Celtic and love the people I get to work with every day,” Stevens told @TheFieldOf68
.

It sounds like WVU coach DeVries is a target at Indiana. Iowa tried but couldn't match the NIL and salary WVU has on the table for an extension. Indiana can and DeVries is a Midwest guy.

[Lathum]

about to fill out my Buffett bracket. Wish me luck!

[Swaggs]

It sounds like WVU coach DeVries is a target at Indiana. Iowa tried but couldn't match the NIL and salary WVU has on the table for an extension. Indiana can and DeVries is a Midwest guy.

I've been a season ticket holder for a long time and my interest in college basketball is landing at an all-time low. Seeing WVU go 19-13 (10-10 in the Big 12) with neutral court OOC wins over Gonzaga and Arizona and @ Kansas (plus beat Iowa St) and not get in, while UNC and Xavier and San Diego St. somehow did. And seeing Oklahoma win .333 of their SEC games (and both have the same number of ranked wins as WVU has, despite having more opportunities) and getting a 9-seed was defeating.

But, the dagger is if we end up losing Devries, that will be 4 coaches in 4 years and complete roster turnover each year. I can't blame him for wanting to go to Indiana, I guess. But I can't see me caring about the tournament and now next year is going to be another lost season. Meanwhile, I'm paying for seats, licensing, have to walk a mile if I want to park, and spend about $75 to feed my family when I go to games. Feels like an arms race that I'm just throwing money into and getting zero return.

I just paid almost $4000 for three football tickets and I'm guessing the best hope there is to win 8 or 9 games.

College sports is pretty darn broken for all but a handful of programs. Coaching contracts don't matter, player contracts don't seem to matter (or at least equal any type of long term stability), and conference affiliation feels like it is all temporary. I'm tired of every offseason feeling like we go back to square one.

[flere-imsaho]

Get some of these people to pony up some NIL money (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_West_Virginia_University_alumni), then.

[Atocep]

Get some of these people to pony up some NIL money (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_West_Virginia_University_alumni), then.

For basketball, WVU has a really strong NIL budget. Definitely top 25, but still not competing with Indiana there if Indiana really commits. NIL is really the only thing coaches are caring about right now and WVU can get closer to Indiana than most realize but still not good enough.

Indiana side are saying it's done but are probably jumping the gun. I think he goes if/when offered. There are some good coaches out there to replace him but the pool isn't as deep as last cycle when it was hard to make a bad hire.

[Swaggs]

Get some of these people to pony up some NIL money (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_West_Virginia_University_alumni), then.

I'd say we generally punch above our weight in fundraising and certainly with NIL. Guys like John Chambers and Ken Kendrick have been very generous over the years and Pat McAfee has been very supportive since he's gotten more famous and wealthy. Our athletic department has already said that they are fully funding the maximum profit sharing (about $22M beginning in the 25-26 season), so the commitment is there to maximize what we have, I think.

The bigger issue is that, even at our best, we can't expect to compete with the Ohio States and Texases of the world, but with the Big Ten and SEC now earning so much through TV/broadcasting, the gap between WVU and say Vanderbilt/Miss. St./Purdue/Iowa is soon going to be insurmountable, too - even if we do everything right. We won't be able to retain assistant coaches, have as many staff members, budgeting for recruiting, etc.

I'm not asking for anyone to feel sorry for me here. It's just frustrating that the a lot of the winners and losers in this system were largely chosen by who you aligned yourself with 50 or 100 years ago.

[Kodos]

Sounds like it might be Darian DeVries to IU.

[Lathum]

Insane ending to the first play in game

[wustin]

How did UNC make it? :lol:

Of all 8 of the first 4 and last 4 teams, UNC is ranked #1 in all relevant metrics except for quad 1 wins where they're last. Ever since UNC made their permanent starting lineup change, they've been playing like a top 25 team so that 1-12 quad 1 record was always a silly talking point. They nearly beat Florida and Duke (without Flagg). Previous 10 games UNC has had a top 10 offense and shooting 44% from 3. They were up 82 to 42 against SDSU at one point yesterday lol.

[Lathum]

American needs to get the Rogers kid out of the game before he does permanent damage, if he hasn't already

[Lathum]

dola- please stop showing his mom holding back tears

[Thomkal]

It was about this time last year that Coastal Carolina moved on from Cliff Ellis and I thought things were looking up for the program: much younger, more media/community friendly coach-all around campus/local news/town but sadly the team on the court might have been the worse yet. No wins in the Sun Belt until late in the season and then a first round loss as the 12th or 13 seed. :( If things don't improve with more of his own players on the team next season there may be a quick turnaround in head coaches.

[Lathum]

Jesus. Clemson scored 13 points in the first half.

[Atocep]

Jesus. Clemson scored 13 points in the first half.

Wade's a great coach and will make NC State dangerous in the NIL era. I'm not sure how long he stays there, though, because he'll be attractive at other places in a hurry and if NC State isn't giving him enough resources he won't hesitate to leave.

[Swaggs]

Wade's a great coach and will make NC State dangerous in the NIL era. I'm not sure how long he stays there, though, because he'll be attractive at other places in a hurry and if NC State isn't giving him enough resources he won't hesitate to leave.

Wade will have NC State near the top of the ACC in no time. I think he'll eventually end up at Clemson, though. He's obviously an alum, but I've heard he's super attached to them.

[Ksyrup]

Went to the Louisville game. From what I saw, bad matchup with Creighton, Creighton hit everything in sight, and the refs called a game that allowed heavy contact inside that did UL no favors on top of everything else that didn't go their way. It wasn't for lack of crowd, though - I'd say 90% UL fans, at UK's home court. A bunch of people taking pictures with middle fingers at the Rupp sign. Then they threw bottles on the court near the end, causing a delay.

Thanks to UL blowing it, we left after the game and didn't watch Auburn.

[RainMaker]

Wade's a great coach and will make NC State dangerous in the NIL era. I'm not sure how long he stays there, though, because he'll be attractive at other places in a hurry and if NC State isn't giving him enough resources he won't hesitate to leave.

NC State feels like a perfect fit but I'm a little surprised he isn't getting even bigger offers. That guy is a masterful tactician. Good lord that gameplan they had for Clemson in the first half was perfect.

[Atocep]

NC State feels like a perfect fit but I'm a little surprised he isn't getting even bigger offers. That guy is a masterful tactician. Good lord that gameplan they had for Clemson in the first half was perfect.

A lot of risk there. It takes a string AD or someone willing to accept the risk
He has guys that bankroll his NIL needs and insert themselves in the program with no loyalty to the school. NC State's AD is on the hot seat a bit and is likely fired if he doesn't nail this hire so the risk made sense.

[HerRealName]

Every time I watch Kansas I'm amazed by how sloppy they are. I don't know how Self has managed to keep his sanity this year. Hopefully this is the end of Dickinson.

[Lathum]

Went to the Louisville game. From what I saw, bad matchup with Creighton, Creighton hit everything in sight, and the refs called a game that allowed heavy contact inside that did UL no favors on top of everything else that didn't go their way. It wasn't for lack of crowd, though - I'd say 90% UL fans, at UK's home court. A bunch of people taking pictures with middle fingers at the Rupp sign. Then they threw bottles on the court near the end, causing a delay.

Thanks to UL blowing it, we left after the game and didn't watch Auburn.

Did you throw the water bottle?

[Lathum]

I think St Johns may be in some trouble

[Ksyrup]

Did you throw the water bottle?

I didn't care enough about who won to get that pissed. It also happened on the other side of the court from where we were sitting.

[Edward64]

Holy crap. Hogs beat Kansas!

[RainMaker]

Big 10 undefeated in round 1.

[Edward64]

Holy crap. Hogs beat St John’s

[Lathum]

The end of these games are unwatchable with all the reviews.

[Ghost Econ]

Duke is the only non SEC, B10, B12 team left. Underdogs.

[JPhillips]

Probably me and my stress/distractions, but this tournament just didn't grab me the way past tournaments have. Pretty uneventful/unexciting first weekend. With a couple of exceptions, UConn/FL is the biggest.

[BishopMVP]

Probably me and my stress/distractions, but this tournament just didn't grab me the way past tournaments have. Pretty uneventful/unexciting first weekend. With a couple of exceptions, UConn/FL is the biggest.I think it was a little better than people give it credit for because there weren't any buzzer beaters until a Colorado State/Maryland game that gave us two, but I think with the current rules the top teams have never been better and the gap between them and the best mid/low majors who are usually the fun upset teams has widen considerably. Gaulke got the attention but the real star player from last year's Cinderella Oakland team made it to the Sweet 16 last night (Trey Townsend), he just did it as a depth piece on Arizona putting up 2/3/2 instead of the guy putting up 30/17 vs NC State last year (and he did it next to a guy who put up 20/7 a game at Campbell).

There are still occasional lightning in a bottle teams like Drake that pulled their top players up with the coach, or guys like Robbie Avila and Yaxel Landeborg who prefer a coach and situation they like over chasing the $$$, but for every one of them there are dozens of others that could be starring as the 1-3 on a frisky lower conference champ and 12-15 seed that are instead filling out the depth chart as the 4-8 at the high major teams with all that $$$ advantage. Really sucks as someone whose two teams are Charlotte (Igor Milicic, Dishon Jackson, LuCye Patterson last year, all gone to start for power teams) and UMass (RJ Luis, Javohn Garcia, Matt Cross, Josh Cohen going from All-A10 to 13mpg for a bottom tier B1G team, etc) and I think it definitely tamps down the number of upsets or close games early, but the flip side is this is pretty easily the best the remaining 16 teams should be so it's not what I prefer but there is a different reward at least. Literally the only team close to an underdog is Coach Cal's Arkansas and they're rolling out multiple 5* NBA prospects and a guy like Johnell Davis who also lead a recent Cinderella run at a smaller conference school.

We'll see if this year was just a huge outlier - and we'll still get SOME upsets - but I think we're entering a new top heavy era instead of the fairly wild west one we've seen recently. Since 2013 the top 25 KenPom teams have averaged between +21.62 to +24.94, this year they're up at +27.4, and the B1G should catch up to the SEC in fully weaponizing their money and the NIL structure. Big 12/ACC/some lower powers like Memphis or Gonzaga will be able to keep up with the cap if they can get near it or if their school chooses to focus on basketball over football, but you can't build around hidden gems over a couple seasons at the lower levels, 90% of All-Conference guys are gone after one.

[Ksyrup]

The Sweet Sixteen matchups seem pretty good. UK/Tennessee is going to be interesting. I doubt UK can pull off a third victory against them this year.

UK, Arkansas and BYU all made the Sweet Sixteen. I think the coaching musical chairs worked out well for everyone.

[Atocep]

The Sweet Sixteen matchups seem pretty good. UK/Tennessee is going to be interesting. I doubt UK can pull off a third victory against them this year.

UK, Arkansas and BYU all made the Sweet Sixteen. I think the coaching musical chairs worked out well for everyone.

Last year's hiring cycle was arguably the strongest ever. This year's is not.

[HerRealName]

The Sweet Sixteen matchups seem pretty good. UK/Tennessee is going to be interesting. I doubt UK can pull off a third victory against them this year.

UK, Arkansas and BYU all made the Sweet Sixteen. I think the coaching musical chairs worked out well for everyone.

The good thing about the relative lack of upsets this year is that the rest of the tournament is going to be incredible.

[Arles]

Yeah, I'm pretty excited for:
AZ/Duke
BYU/Bama (BYU is live here)
Kentucky/Tenn
Michigan/Auburn

A lot of good teams left (including my finals duo Florida and Houston) - should be some good games.

[HerRealName]

I failed to get my brothers to change our yearly NCAA bet - I wanted to pick every game as they happen instead of the traditional bracket before the start of the tournament. I still think it's a good idea so I'm going to try again next year. We're really close on score and it will just come down to whoever picked the right winner. It feels lame to me.

[Atocep]

Women's basketball is watching 3-4 players hit the floor with no call and then a ticky tack call 2 seconds later.

[HerRealName]

It sucks to see Watkins go down with an ACL. She's a serious contender for the MJ of women's basketball. I've watched more USC games this year than Ohio State games.

[albionmoonlight]

NIL/Transfers look to have pretty much ended the era of the Cinderellas even making the Sweet 16.

If you're a smaller team who happens to luck into recruiting a player who turns out to be great, he not gonna to lead you to the Elite 8 as a senior. He's just gonna transfer into the Big 10 after his freshman year.

That said, the lack of Cinderella teams does make for some heavy hitting Sweet 16 games.

All depends on what you like, I suppose.

[Ksyrup]

Over 700 players in the portal today. Last year, day 1 had 291 hit the portal. College sports really sucks right now.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Right on cue

Drake star guard Bennett Stirtz plans to enter the transfer portal and follow coach Ben McCollum to Iowa, he told The Field of 68 on Tuesday.

Stirtz, one of the biggest breakout stars of the 2024-25 college basketball season, spent one season with the Bulldogs after transferring from Division II Northwest Missouri State when McCollum left for Drake.

A 6-foot-4 point guard, Stirtz won Missouri Valley Player of the Year and led the country in minutes played.

Meanwhile St. Francis (PA) announced intent to move all sports to D3 by 2026

[BishopMVP]

Do people think the cap will drag the SEC back to the pack as football uses up a big chunk at most schools (and a conference like the Big East rise), or will those schools just be able to skirt it in the gray area enough to keep it going down there?

[bronconick]

NIL/Transfers look to have pretty much ended the era of the Cinderellas even making the Sweet 16.

If you're a smaller team who happens to luck into recruiting a player who turns out to be great, he not gonna to lead you to the Elite 8 as a senior. He's just gonna transfer into the Big 10 after his freshman year.

That said, the lack of Cinderella teams does make for some heavy hitting Sweet 16 games.

All depends on what you like, I suppose.

And when the ratings decline because of the lack of upsets, the lesson learned by the powers that be will be that the auto bids for smaller conferences are not warranted anymore.

[BishopMVP]

And when the ratings decline because of the lack of upsets, the lesson learned by the powers that be will be that the auto bids for smaller conferences are not warranted anymore.
When power conference AD's and Presidents can either be fired or make 6 figure bonuses for making the tournament, and we let them make the rules and pick the at large teams of course we're going to get more power conference teams in.

The only answer seems to be enforceable multi year contracts at this point. There's a reason the NBA, NFL, etc don't allow everyone to enter free agency every season.

[Ksyrup]

I'm all for paying players and even free movement, but the combination of both, with barely any rules/restrictions, means a bunch of student-athletes (or pre-professionals, in some cases) have more rights and less restrictions to make money playing sports than actual professionals. It's insane.

[bhlloy]

Well over 3 players per D1 team in the portal right now, closer to 4. I'm in the same boat... I'm glad players are getting a share of the pie but where we are going to end up is a watered down pro setup rather than college sports as we know it. And the courts seem more likely to strike down a level playing field and enforceable contracts rather than move towards it. No idea what the solution is.

[Atocep]

WVU hires Ross Hodge from North Texas. He's from the Grant McCasland/Mark Adam's tree. I'm excited for the pack line to come to Morgantown.

[albionmoonlight]

No idea what the solution is.

Unionize the players and get a CBA.

It'll be weird the first time college games are cancelled due to a strike. But we'll get used to it.

[Arles]

The first step would be 2-year contracts for NIL payments with two exceptions:
1. A player can enter the draft after one season if good enough.
2. A player can transfer after one season if the coach leaves

Seems like a pretty sensible starting point. I would also like to see some form of "transfer fee" for non power 5 schools if a kid gets poached to a bigger program. This would allow that program to use that money as NIL to try and partially replace him.

[BishopMVP]

https://twitter.com/cobrastats/status/1904648292409237518
vs
https://twitter.com/cobrastats/status/1904586579764556144

[miami_fan]

Unionize the players and get a CBA.

It'll be weird the first time college games are cancelled due to a strike. But we'll get used to it.

And who will be on the other side of the CBA?

I suspect it will get to a point where it will be with the leader of whatever the SEC-Big Ten league is but still. Also how does that jive with the student part of the student-athlete?

I have to be honest though. I have heard too many complaints about Cinderella making the regular season worthless or ruining the second weekend of the tournament to get too riled up about it. The love for Cinderella usually dissipated before its Sweet Sixteen game began. The best teams in the regular season are proving to be the best teams of the postseason and that is a good thing.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Unionize the players and get a CBA.

It'll be weird the first time college games are cancelled due to a strike. But we'll get used to it.

Better to just put an end to it all at this point.

[bhlloy]

The first step would be 2-year contracts for NIL payments with two exceptions:
1. A player can enter the draft after one season if good enough.
2. A player can transfer after one season if the coach leaves

Seems like a pretty sensible starting point. I would also like to see some form of "transfer fee" for non power 5 schools if a kid gets poached to a bigger program. This would allow that program to use that money as NIL to try and partially replace him.

There’s no end of obvious suggestions to make things better. I probably worded this poorly. But how do you actually enforce any of this? The NCAA has already been shown to be totally toothless in any court fight. You have Oregon taking even the slightly restrictive things they’ve put in place today to a sympathetic state judiciary, you’ve had judges and lawmakers in multiple southern states wading in. There’s absolutely no chance the NCAA can put these things in place and have them stick, they will get pulled apart from every direction.

Unionize the players and get a CBA.

It'll be weird the first time college games are cancelled due to a strike. But we'll get used to it.

Bingo. This is where it ends up at which point they aren’t college athletes any more. You might get a 30 team league where you have a team called the Alabama Crimson Tide and the Michigan Wolverines, but it’s not college sports in any form we know it any more and the vast majority of schools are just not going to want the headache to be at that level. Or basically what the two posts above mine say in different ways.

[bhlloy]

I have to be honest though. I have heard too many complaints about Cinderella making the regular season worthless or ruining the second weekend of the tournament to get too riled up about it. The love for Cinderella usually dissipated before its Sweet Sixteen game began. The best teams in the regular season are proving to be the best teams of the postseason and that is a good thing.

Funny, I couldn’t disagree with this part more. Without the upsets and teams that come out of nowhere to make runs my interest in the tournament goes down about 95%. Each to their own.

[HerRealName]

Kevin Willard was negotiating to leave Maryland for Villanova while preparing and playing in the NCAA tournament. For as much as players get criticized, coaches are every bit as bad.

[Atocep]

Darian DeVries had a deal agreed to with Indiana by mid Feb while continuing to negotiate an extension with WVU that he never intended to sign.

He left in about as shitty of a way as a coach can and didn't bother to address the players or make the standard release thanking fans, etc. He's a good coach, but most of these guys aren't good people.

[dubb93]

Darian DeVries had a deal agreed to with Indiana by mid Feb while continuing to negotiate an extension with WVU that he never intended to sign.

He left in about as shitty of a way as a coach can and didn't bother to address the players or make the standard release thanking fans, etc. He's a good coach, but most of these guys aren't good people.

And he's moving to a team where the fanbase is already openly hostile towards him. I'm not hostile, but I'm really skeptical about how you fix a program that didn't make the tournament two years in a row by hiring a coach who also did not make the tournament.

This is a team that fired a coach with multiple sweet sixteens with the program recently because it wasn't good enough. Mike Woodson is a legend in the program and he got ran out in what was less than three years. He was allowed to finish his third because of his stature at Indiana.

If DeVries doesn't make a tournament in his first two years, which will be tough with everyone transferring, I'd say he's done. If he doesn't win atleast one tournament game in three years (this is assuming he makes it year 2 and 3) I'd say he's done. After that he really needs to produce. I honestly don't know that he is that guy but we will see.

[Atocep]

And he's moving to a team where the fanbase is already openly hostile towards him. I'm not hostile, but I'm really skeptical about how you fix a program that didn't make the tournament two years in a row by hiring a coach who also did not make the tournament.

This is a team that fired a coach with multiple sweet sixteens with the program recently because it wasn't good enough. Mike Woodson is a legend in the program and he got ran out in what was less than three years. He was allowed to finish his third because of his stature at Indiana.

If DeVries doesn't make a tournament in his first two years, which will be tough with everyone transferring, I'd say he's done. If he doesn't win atleast one tournament game in three years (this is assuming he makes it year 2 and 3) I'd say he's done. After that he really needs to produce. I honestly don't know that he is that guy but we will see.


He's a very good coach with everything on the court. He understands the game, handles rotations well, and gets the most out of a group of players.

Off the court, he's a mess. Our AD put his staff together because he was struggling that bad to land assistants. He is going to be awful with donors. For as fiery as he is on the court, he is really socially awkward and lacks personality off of it.

He can be a great coach and have a ton of success at Indiana but probably needs and AD willing to do some of the lifting for him.

[Swaggs]

Devries rolled a 0 in charisma. When I'd watch his press conferences, they would make me uncomfortable because he looked and sounded so nervous.

I will say that, in my opinion, Devries seems like a really good defensive coach and did a really good job at WVU to put together a very competitive roster in a short period of time. Ending 19-13 and 10-10 in conference while losing 2 of the 3 best offensive players left me feeling like he squeezed as much out of the guys we had as he could and, if health had been better, we would have won more like 22-24 games and been an upper seed. The pieces all fit together really well, which is something I don't think we had under Huggins (maybe ever). Huggins would get talented players that didn't fit together or somehow snag really good offensive players and chase them off when they weren't good at defending.

I think Devries will struggle at Indiana because he doesn't know how to (or care to) do the off the court stuff around the community and with donors. That was going to wear thin at WVU and even more quickly so at a place like Indiana.

[HerRealName]

I don't get that flagrant on Reese at all. He was the one that got hit in the face. The SEC came out to home cooking in the 2nd half in both games.

[HerRealName]

I fell asleep and missed all of the 2nd half of the Arkansas - TT game. Getting old sucks. I wasn't able to will Arkansas to victory and now I owe my daughter and her boyfriend dinner.

[Drake]

I think Devries will struggle at Indiana because he doesn't know how to (or care to) do the off the court stuff around the community and with donors. That was going to wear thin at WVU and even more quickly so at a place like Indiana.

That sounds like he's the opposite of Tom Crean. The local community here in Bloomington loved Crean because he was such a solid, stand-up guy. It was the X's and O's that were the problem.

On the other hand, never underestimate the average IU fan's willing to tolerate off-the-court issues or lack of charisma if you're winning. Bobby Knight was an absolute asshole and routinely horrible in public, but a solid chunk of (older) IU fans would hire him again tomorrow because of 'member berries.

[Swaggs]

There are rumors (conspiracy theories) that Devries and Indiana had been in touch for several months and had a deal ironed out before the end of the season. These are based on the late season slump, the fact that Woodson/Indiana knew they were making a change midseason, that WVU and Indiana both played in the same in-season tournament (so admins and donors were around in the Bahamas at the same time as Devries), and that Devries son (who was two time MVC POTY at Drake and did well in the early season at WVU) opted to take a medical redshirt despite seemingly playing well before "reinjuring" himself (and the team really being in need).

I don't know or believe all that, but it is possible, if Devries did have his foot out the door, he didn't want to play the political/fundraiser games or spend the time/effort with the WVU alums, so that may end up not being a problem at Indiana if that is/was the case.

One of the comments when there was talk of him leaving was that "he has no inner circle (at WVU)," so there were no rumors spilling and none of the "insiders (who buy their way in with donations and such)" knew anything around his departure. Him coming to terms with Indiana came along a lot more quickly than people expected.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Not sure I get this, but okay

Taylor Jenkins fired as Grizzlies coach after six seasons - ESPN (https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/44444002/taylor-jenkins-grizzlies-coach-six-seasons)

[miami_fan]

The Grizzlies have fired HC Taylor Jenkins with the team in 5th place in the West and nine game left in the season. Given the front office purged the staff of all but two of his assistants from last year and those two were hired prior to the 23-24 season, it was unlikely Jenkins was going to make it beyond this season regardless of what happened in the playoffs.

[miami_fan]

Not sure I get this, but okay

Taylor Jenkins fired as Grizzlies coach after six seasons - ESPN (https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/44444002/taylor-jenkins-grizzlies-coach-six-seasons)

In addition to my post, the Grizzlies have a 2.5 game lead over the Warriors and a 3 game lead over the T-Wolves to try and stay out of the play-in.

[RainMaker]

Not a lot of NBA talk here but last night's Bulls-Lakers game had a final 12 seconds for the ages.


<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/5bwLIRasSew?si=CveLNJKHy5QeU1ps" title="YouTube video player" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture; web-share" referrerpolicy="strict-origin-when-cross-origin" allowfullscreen=""></iframe>

[JonInMiddleGA]

The Grizzlies have fired HC Taylor Jenkins with the team in 5th place in the West and nine game left in the season. Given the front office purged the staff of all but two of his assistants from last year and those two were hired prior to the 23-24 season, it was unlikely Jenkins was going to make it beyond this season regardless of what happened in the playoffs.

But looking at it, I don't see anything more than a 3rd-5th place roster there so it's not like they're significantly underachieving or something. Feels more like an NHL firing (team position, timing, etc) than an NBA one, at least to me.

[Ksyrup]

The coaching merry-go-round of "if this, then that" continues with Buzz Williams apparently ready to ditch TX A&M for Maryland if Willard leaves.

[miami_fan]

But looking at it, I don't see anything more than a 3rd-5th place roster there so it's not like they're significantly underachieving or something. Feels more like an NHL firing (team position, timing, etc) than an NBA one, at least to me.

There probably is a little Lou Lamoriello bump expectation involved as well.

However this is pretty much the same team that had finished 2nd in the conference in consecutive years prior to last year where their star players had injury and other issues. Those young Grizzlie teams were significantly ahead of a similarly young team like OKC by 30 and 11 games both of those seasons. I am sure Grizzlie leadership don't see themselves as being seventeen games worse than OKC. As usual, the coach is the easiest thing to change as I don't think the front office thinks the roster is flawed.

It probably did not help things that there have been a few negative player interactions throughout this year though none as serious as the ones with Ja last year.

[miami_fan]

The HVL revenge tour continues!:D

Oh not really a revenge tour, but too many knowledgeable basketball folks were talking about Hailey Van Lith like she was a bum on the court.

[INDalltheway]

The Grizzlies have fired HC Taylor Jenkins with the team in 5th place in the West and nine game left in the season. Given the front office purged the staff of all but two of his assistants from last year and those two were hired prior to the 23-24 season, it was unlikely Jenkins was going to make it beyond this season regardless of what happened in the playoffs.

I love that Grizzlies moved on him right now. They may have the guy already on staff and they are giving him a 10 game interim shot and the playoffs to see if he is the guy. Iisalo was potentially going to get a HC gig in the offseason and I'm sure the Grizz would feel silly if he is as good of a coach as it appears he could be. The 4th quarter coaching/rotations Wednesday night at the Thunder was malpractice - the straw that broke the camels back. I respect the move as a new Grizzlies fan this year(Zach Edey fan).


As for cbb, tough ending for my Boilers last night vs Houston. Tough whistle the last 4 mins but next year should be special if they can keep their core and add a few pieces in the portal.

[HerRealName]

I think I'd play Haugh 30+ minutes if I were coaching Florida.

[HerRealName]

The Texas Tech deja vu in reverse is wild.

[bhlloy]

Unbelievable meltdown by Texas Tech. Just done every single thing wrong you possibly can when it matters.

[JPhillips]

Yeah. I though Florida was cooked and then a few shots, missed TT free throws, and suddenly it was tied.

[bhlloy]

I didn’t pay attention to how they used the TOs other than the last one but to have to go that long without having any to be able to calm things down has to be on the coach too.

Credit to Florida for hitting the shots but really that should have been a winnable situation just by not allowing open 3’s, going deep into the shot clock and hitting your free throws. Feels like the Falcons Pats Super Bowl a bit.

[Lathum]

Duke looks unbeatable.

They absolutely dismantled a great Bama team tonight.

[flere-imsaho]

Do people think the cap will drag the SEC back to the pack as football uses up a big chunk at most schools (and a conference like the Big East rise), or will those schools just be able to skirt it in the gray area enough to keep it going down there?

I suspect the Big 10 having far richer alumni is what's going to push the SEC back into the pack.

I'm all for paying players and even free movement, but the combination of both, with barely any rules/restrictions, means a bunch of student-athletes (or pre-professionals, in some cases) have more rights and less restrictions to make money playing sports than actual professionals. It's insane.

Maybe it's because I went to a D3 school and have no rooting affiliation to a D1 program, but it all seems fine to me.

The first step would be 2-year contracts for NIL payments with two exceptions:
1. A player can enter the draft after one season if good enough.
2. A player can transfer after one season if the coach leaves

Seems reasonable to me.

[Ksyrup]

Houston makes Bennett-era UVA look watchable. I want to see their D vs Duke. Actually, I'm not sure if want to watch it, but I want to see the outcome, at least.

[JonInMiddleGA]

A thorough bed-shitting in the Elite Eight by the Vols.

The various words that come to mind does NOT included "shocked"

[Ksyrup]

In honor of LSU losing to UCLA...

<blockquote class="reddit-embed-bq" style="height:500px" data-embed-height="546"><a href="https://www.reddit.com/r/CollegeBasketball/comments/1jmcgge/kim_mulkey_dressed_like_the_authoritarian_leader/">Kim Mulkey dressed like the authoritarian leader of a small island nation</a><br> by<a href="https://www.reddit.com/user/slotretriever/">u/slotretriever</a> in<a href="https://www.reddit.com/r/CollegeBasketball/">CollegeBasketball</a></blockquote><script async="" src="https://embed.reddit.com/widgets.js" charset="UTF-8"></script>

[Ksyrup]

So Maryland's coach bolts for Villanova, Buzz Williams bolts A&M for Maryland, and now A&M is targeting Chris Beard at Ole Miss to go head-to-head with Texas. Hilarious.

[Danny]

Pretty fantastic semifinal games.

[albionmoonlight]

Fuck Duke

[GrantDawg]

Well, there went my wife's bracket.

[Drake]

Fuck Duke

Like, in general or this year specifically? (Just curious. I have no affiliation with Duke.)

[Kodos]

Fuck Duke

Always.

[HerRealName]

I'm no Duke fan but that team played some aesthetically beautiful basketball interrupted occasionally by completely stupid mistakes. Houston pulling that one off was a massive upset in my eyes but I'm thinking Florida is in trouble tomorrow.

[Danny]

An absolutely dominant tournament for Uconn

[Edward64]

Not a big basketball fan, so sorry if this was obvious. But when I was checking on scores, it occurred to me that the Final 4 was made up of all No. 1 seeds.

Even with the expectation that top seeds have a better shot at reaching the Final Four, this year marks just the second time since NCAA Tournament seeding began in 1979 that all four No. 1 seeds advanced to the final weekend. The only other year such an occurrence unfolded was in 2008.

[albionmoonlight]

Like, in general or this year specifically? (Just curious. I have no affiliation with Duke.)

In general. I’m a UNC guy.

[Drake]

In general. I’m a UNC guy.

Fair. I feel the same way about the Yankees.

[wustin]

Not a big basketball fan, so sorry if this was obvious. But when I was checking on scores, it occurred to me that the Final 4 was made up of all No. 1 seeds.

2008 was loaded. UCLA had Kevin Love and Westbrook. Calipari was coaching Memphis and had Derrick Rose. The other side of the bracket were super stacked Kansas and UNC (Hansbrough) teams.

That was also the same year Steph Curry had his run with Davidson and nearly beat Kansas in the Elite 8.

[JonInMiddleGA]

I got curious, so I looked something up.

Of the 14 players who played the most minutes for the teams in tonight's title game (7 per), only half have played their entire college careers for those teams. And only 9/14 have played more games for their current team than any other.

[Ksyrup]

The attempted dunk against the rim, followed by a block on the rebound, followed by the ball going off the body out of bounds, is the basketball trifectic of LOL.

[miami_fan]

An absolutely dominant tournament for Uconn

I got a chance to go to the game yesterday and ended up in one of the executive suites for the very first time in my life. I am super grateful that I was in the suite and for just about any other event I would take a return invite. I hated the game watching experience yesterday. Not having to wait in line for food or the restroom? Tremendous. All you can drink Top shelf alcohol and access to someone to drive my son, my niece, her dad and I home? Yes please even though I don't drink that much in public. It just felt like I was watching the game at home. The last thing I wanted to do was not being around the basketball fans in that arena. The experience I had yesterday just walking around the arena before the game, at halftime and after the game was not like something I have ever experienced before. I know it is a trope but it just a fun atmosphere throughout the game and the entire day.

A couple of takeaways from the actual game. First, Paige Bueckers has the capability to be an all world defender based on her performance yesterday. My goodness she was everywhere on the defensive end. I was shocked that she only had one steal and 2 blocks when I looked at the box score. Second, I love Dawn Staley but Geno took to her to school tactically. He was a step ahead with every move he made. Finally, yesterday might as well have been Homecoming for the UConn basketball program. At least ten former UConn stars were lined up to congratulate the team but also stay off to the side so as to not take too much of the focus off this year's team.

[miami_fan]

In pro sports, we would blame the commissioner. Since this is college sports, who put in the call to have the refs call a foul every time a defender had the gall to breath on his man in the second half after allowing a mugging on just about every play in the first half. This is not a commentary on whether it help decide who won the game. Houston choke the game away but the officiating was horrendous for both sides.

[HerRealName]

In pro sports, we would blame the commissioner. Since this is college sports, who put in the call to have the refs call a foul every time a defender had the gall to breath on his man in the second half after allowing a mugging on just about every play in the first half. This is not a commentary on whether it help decide who won the game. Houston choke the game away but the officiating was horrendous for both sides.

It was really weird the difference between the 1st and 2nd halves. It was also strange how they went on foul spurts against one team. I think it was 6 of the first 7 against Florida and then something like 9 of the next ten against Houston. It was a conspiracy theorist's dream come true.

[HerRealName]

Dola to add that i think there were also 4 fouls in 10 seconds of game time.

[bhlloy]

Yeah, I agree. Not sure which half was called more correctly, but it was jarring and really didn’t help the quality of the game on the court.

If I’m an NBA playoff team or somebody picking in the mid late first I want Walter Clayton Jr on my team. I understand all the limitations and the physical template and upside teams are looking for but kid is just a gamer and last night showed on both ends of the floor.

[RainMaker]

So the Nuggest just fired Malone. Uhhhhhhh WTF?!

[RainMaker]

If I’m an NBA playoff team or somebody picking in the mid late first I want Walter Clayton Jr on my team. I understand all the limitations and the physical template and upside teams are looking for but kid is just a gamer and last night showed on both ends of the floor.

He gives me Jalen Brunson vibes. Not overly gifted physically but just a damn good basketball player with a high IQ. Maybe not the highest ceiling but definitely a very high floor. Worst case scenario I see is a pretty good backup PG.

I'd love the Bulls to take him at around 13 or wherever.

[Ksyrup]

Firing coaches of mid-tier playoff teams is the new fad, I guess.

[miami_fan]

So the Nuggest just fired Malone. Uhhhhhhh WTF?!

Now this one? This one right here? This one makes absolutely no sense UNLESS Mike Malone went to Stan Kronke's office and went Mike Malone on him.

[flere-imsaho]

The Nuggets problems seem to be a GM problem, not a HC problem.

[JonInMiddleGA]

The Nuggets problems seem to be a GM problem, not a HC problem.

He's not being extended (renewed?) either according to ESPN.

They report tension between Booth & Malone, so apparently BOTH are out. Interesting strategy.

[RainMaker]

There has to be more to the story. There's 3 games left in the season.

The only thing I've seen is that Booth and Malone didn't get along. But I just don't see how firing a coach this late fixes that. Feels like an offseason move.

[dubb93]

It probably should have waited until after the season but I’ve always been a big fan of letting GMs have a lot of say in the hiring of their coach so if they are both out then that makes more sense to me.

[miami_fan]

Back when he went by Mike Malone, he was fired by the Kings. I went back and looked at some of the reporting after that firing. He had issues with the front office not giving players he wanted and giving him players he did not want.

There is now reporting that Malone and Booth did not get along. I can imagine Booth getting fired and Malone believing that the title should have afforded him more personnel say and telling the owners he should be the GM as well.

[wustin]

Tim Connelly was the GM who created that Nuggets core who is Malone's guy. He left to Minny and Denver's record against the Connelly era Wolves is like 5-11 or something.

Michael Porter should've been traded ages ago for more rotation players and they still don't have a good backup center for Jokic. I'm pretty sure the last good one was Nurkic.

[RainMaker]

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[Ksyrup]

This morning's Athletic Pulse newsletter was recapping some of the NBA insanity this year, including this recent turn of events in Sacramento:

Literally an hour after losing to the Mavericks in the 9-10 Play-In game Wednesday night, the Kings — the same ones who not long ago installed a giant purple light beam just to broadcast their good vibes into the ether — parted with the architect of their recent turnaround, general manager Monte McNair.

Two Aprils ago, McNair was named the NBA’s Executive of the Year after hiring Mike Brown, who became Coach of the Year and then was fired last December — six months after signing a contract extension.

Just 12 hours after the loss to the Mavericks (speaking of chaos …), Sacramento finalized a deal to bring back its former VP of basketball ops, Scott Perry, as GM. Whiplash, anyone?

[miami_fan]

It gets even better.

Scott Perry was hired as the Kings' VP of Basketball Ops on April 21, 2017. He was then hired to be the Knicks' GM on July 14, 2017.

The guy who hired him to that position with the Kings? Vlade Divac.

Who did Monte McNair replace as permanent GM of the Kings? Vlade Divac.

Who reportedly has regained most of his influence with the Kings' owner over the last year or so? Vlade Divac.

Oh, since I don't feel he gets enough criticism for this and people need to be reminded of this over and over again, who passed on Luka Doncic with the #2 in the draft choosing instead to take Marvin Bagley Jr. because he already had DeAaron Fox on the roster?

Vlade Divac.

[Atocep]

Jeremy Lamb is dating the owner's daughter and has been playing the role of shadow GM because he has the owner's ear. That's reportedly why Fox refused to sign an extension and wanted out. Sabonis has also been asking for clarification on who's running the organization and may ask for a trade as well.



The kings are a mess.

[miami_fan]

I'm fine with the Heat earning the opportunity to lose to the Cavs in 4 or 5 games because they won their play in games and it will be good for the young guys to taste the playoff atmosphere. However, this team does not deserve to be in the playoffs based on their regular season record and their overall play this season.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Sending the Hawks home is reason enough afaic.

Yes, fans in Dallas aren't the only ones salty about trades that involved Doncic.

#fuckthehawks

[miami_fan]

Sending the Hawks home is reason enough afaic.

Yes, fans in Dallas aren't the only ones salty about trades that involved Doncic.

#fuckthehawks

You wanted Landry Fields to be the GM to be roasted for sending Luka to the Lakers? At least Nico was able to get the Mavs Anthony Davis based on his previous job at Nike. Landry might get you Jeremy Lin.

[JonInMiddleGA]

You wanted Landry Fields to be the GM to be roasted for sending Luka to the Lakers? At least Nico was able to get the Mavs Anthony Davis based on his previous job at Nike. Landry might get you Jeremy Lin.

Schlenk was the architecht of the draft day trade, at least he's gone. Fields really can't be any worse than that dumb SOB.

[miami_fan]

How many more wide open three's would Westbrook have to make before you don't leave him wide open in a end of the game situation?

I'm setting the over/under at 15 straight.

[miami_fan]

And just as I typed that... Westbrook goes Westbrook.

[bhlloy]

This has been a hell of a game one. The Nuggets are such an island of misfit toys that you would never think worked together but somehow do.

[miami_fan]

If the Grizzlies did not want to be in the playoffs, they could have forfeited the game to the Mavs.

I am not confident the Mavs would beat the Grizzlies in any other circumstance.

[miami_fan]

I don't understand the appeal of sitting behind the TV broadcast table if you are older than say twenty five years old. Yeah, they are on TV but most people look like they are waiting for their mugshot to be taken.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Hawks promote Onsi Saleh to GM after firing Landry Fields - ESPN (https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/44784004/hawks-promote-onsi-saleh-gm-firing-landry-fields)

[dubb93]

This has been a hell of a game one. The Nuggets are such an island of misfit toys that you would never think worked together but somehow do.

I’m pretty sure The Joker could get the best out of of anyone. I liken him to if Bird and Magic combined their talents into a random 50 year old 7 foot white guy. If he didn’t have the athleticism of Conan O’Brien he’d be the GOAT.

[Lathum]

Nico Harrison - Didn't know fans' level of love for Luka Doncic - ESPN (https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/44789369/nico-harrison-know-fans-level-love-luka-doncic)

You should be fired if you are this out of touch with your fan base.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Pistons won their first playoff game last night since Senator Barack Obama was a week away from securing the Democratic nomination for president.

[bronconick]

Pistons won their first playoff game last night since Senator Barack Obama was a week away from securing the Democratic nomination for president.

6,174 days, Cade Cunningham was 6. The leading scorer from their last win, Antonio McDyess, is now 50.

[Ksyrup]

Should be up 2-0 headed home.

[miami_fan]

Nico Harrison - Didn't know fans' level of love for Luka Doncic - ESPN (https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/44789369/nico-harrison-know-fans-level-love-luka-doncic)

You should be fired if you are this out of touch with your fan base.

Neither did the owner but he blames Nico as well. This is from Tim Cato who is pretty locked in with the Mavs.

“However, those team sources consistently express belief that Dumont no longer sees Harrison as a figure with irreproachable basketball expertise. Most notably, team and league sources say, Dumont has had frustration with Harrison not warning him — or, perhaps even more damningly, being unaware — of the fandom’s outrage following the trade. Those same sources say it had some influence over Dumont’s decision to make Harrison appear for last week’s closed media event, which Harrison did not want to.”

I don't agree with trading Luka for the reasons that have been articulated, nor do I agree with what they got back.

However, nothing has convinced me that Harrison is not providing a shield for ownership. Executing the deals to bring in Derrick Lively, PJ Washington and Kyrie Irving over the last couple of years was enough to convince the new owners Nico was the new Jerry West? I refuse to believe that the new owners spent $3.5B to basically give Nico Harrison a general power of attorney to do whatever he wanted to with the franchise because he is "a figure with irreproachable basketball expertise". I refuse to believe that Patrick Dumont spent the last year or so in Dallas, saw all those #77 Mavs jerseys all over the city and all over that arena and needed a warning from Nico Harrison that trading the guy who was currently wearing the #77 Mavs jersey and has since 2019 might cause a fan revolt. Stop it!

If that is the case, they need to hire Woody Johnson's son to make the final basketball decisions assuming he plays NBA 2K in addition to playing Madden.

[miami_fan]

It is not the best time to bring up Ben Simmons since he has picked up two silly fouls that put him on the bench for the rest of the first half but he has played surprisingly well in his limited role with the Clippers so far.

[miami_fan]

The NBA are using WNBA style of refereeing for the playoffs and I must say I approve. No blood, no foul!

[miami_fan]

There goes Lillard's Achilles.

[miami_fan]

If the Grizzlies did not want to be in the playoffs, they could have forfeited the game to the Mavs.

I am not confident the Mavs would beat the Grizzlies in any other circumstance.

In the same vain, this is an appropriate way for this Cavs-Heat series to conclude.

[Ksyrup]

Vacation reservations start tomorrow it appears.

[Thomkal]

wow Pacers

[SirFozzie]

Life comes at you fast:

The Bucks led game 5 118-111 with 40 seconds to play (and a bucks free throw left to take), and lost it (and their season).



Bucks: Missed FT

IND: 33 foot three pointer.

Bucks: Turnover (Gary Trent Jr)

IND: Halliburton hoop and 1

Bucks: Turnover (Trent Jr)

IND: Halliburton hoop

Bucks: Missed prayer at the buzzer

[miami_fan]

Anyone who has wanted a visual representation of the stuff that goes on in the Youth Sports thread, take a look at the action of John Haliburton at the end of that game yesterday. For those who did not see it, Tyrese Haliburton took Giannis one on one to the basket for the game winning layup. At the buzzer, John Haliburton came ON TO THE COURT and began popping his jersery and talking shit as he walked up on Giannis who was just standing on the court. They began jawing back and forth, went forehead to forehead until Giannis got pulled away and then the two teams got into it. The statement afterwards tells its own story.

: "I sincerely apologize to Giannis, the Milwaukee Bucks and the Pacers organization for my actions following tonight's game. This was not a good reflection on our sport or my son and I will not make that mistake again."

Sir, this is not your sport! You are not playing NBA basketball!

[bronconick]

That would usually get someone a complete ban.

[JonInMiddleGA]

To his credit, Tyrese Haliburton made it pretty clear in the post-game media that he did NOT approve of his father's antics.

Seems simple enough but these days I don't take even that much common sense for granted so I was glad to see it.

[miami_fan]

To his credit, Tyrese Haliburton made it pretty clear in the post-game media that he did NOT approve of his father's antics.

Seems simple enough but these days I don't take even that much common sense for granted so I was glad to see it.

You are right. That is simple enough. However, similar to the Jax Ulrich's prank call during the draft, I don't think Tyrese should be a part of this situation either. I don't want to put Tyrese in a position to have an opinion either way to be honest. There is already a discussion about how Tyrese softened what he said last night compared to what he said today.

[JonInMiddleGA]

You are right. That is simple enough. However, similar to the Jax Ulrich's prank call during the draft, I don't think Tyrese should be a part of this situation either. I don't want to put Tyrese in a position to have an opinion either way to be honest. There is already a discussion about how Tyrese softened what he said last night compared to what he said today.

He probably needs to tell nutjob Dad to keep his ass at home then. Otherwise this will continue indefinitely.

[sovereignstar v2]

Luka probably goes to the line 30 times tonight

[sovereignstar v2]

Don't put up any kind of fight or anything

[Honolulu_Blue]

I don't really follow basketball all that closely, but I follow sports enough to know that the Mavericks and, in particular their GM, got lambasted for trading Luka.

Are people having second thoughts bout this now with the Lakers losing their first round series 4-1? Aren't their concerns about Luka's commitment to conditioning and defense, such that making a massive financial commitment to him could be a risk?

[Atocep]

I don't really follow basketball all that closely, but I follow sports enough to know that the Mavericks and, in particular their GM, got lambasted for trading Luka.

Are people having second thoughts bout this now with the Lakers losing their first round series 4-1? Aren't their concerns about Luka's commitment to conditioning and defense, such that making a massive financial commitment to him could be a risk?


No, this Lakers team was very flawed and Dallas gave them a long term lifeline by trading them a 26 year old top 5 player. It's an all time had trade.

[bhlloy]

…checks notes on what happened with the Mavs season… nah

It wasn’t the worst trade of all time because Luka is really really good and could win a championship with the right pieces around him, although that’s true. It’s the worst trade ever because they deliberately decided to only allow one to team to bid, didn’t even get close to the most value out of that team they could have because they were too scared word would get out, and then the main piece they did get is always injured, despite them saying Luka’s conditioning was a big reason for the trade in the first place.

This season or even the next few won’t make it less of a shit trade, barring the Mavs team they put together around AD winning a title. Just willfully trading a top 3 piece in the league for cents on the dollar.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Are people having second thoughts bout this now with the Lakers losing their first round series 4-1?

None whatsoever.

It's the worst trade since Babe Ruth, not just because of the player(s) on the floor but because of the damage done to a brand.

[RainMaker]

It's still a good trade long term. Lebron is 40 and AD is 32 with a long injury history. They got a franchise guy for practically nothing. That's the hardest thing to acquire in the NBA.

[RainMaker]

Schlenk was the architecht of the draft day trade, at least he's gone. Fields really can't be any worse than that dumb SOB.

This is old but I don't think Fields did a bad job. The Luka trade by the previous GM was a disaster. Same goes for the Murray trade.

I thought he did a decent job of digging out of those disasters. Moving Murray for 2 firsts and Dyson Daniels (who is good!) was a great trade. Maybe I'm missing some terrible moves he made but he took over a pretty shit spot.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Tyrese Haliburton's father staying away from Pacers games - ESPN (https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/44954291/tyrese-haliburton-father-staying-away-pacers-games)

The interesting part of this to me is that "This was a decision made by the team's front office, and John Haliburton was understanding and accepted the decision."

Good on Pacers management I reckon.

[flere-imsaho]

It's the worst trade since Babe Ruth, not just because of the player(s) on the floor but because of the damage done to a brand.

There's a non-zero chance that the Mavs become the second-most-popular basketball team in Dallas unless the front office can win back the fans.

[flere-imsaho]

The interesting part of this to me is that "This was a decision made by the team's front office, and John Haliburton was understanding and accepted the decision."

Good on Pacers management I reckon.

Speaking as a referee (though not for basketball) this is good news. Parents (and coaches, for that matter) see what happens on TV and think it's A-OK to act like this at kids' games, which is how you get a 35-year-old Dad squaring up to a 16-year-old first-year ref at a U10 game.

[miami_fan]

Aren't their concerns about Luka's commitment to conditioning and defense, such that making a massive financial commitment to him could be a risk?

It may be an unpopular opinion but my answer to this question is yes. I would still sign him but the risk is there.

I assume he is going to get himself in better shape but he is a professional athlete. I would have assumed that he would be in the best shape already. I have seen him play at least average defense at times but again, I would have assumed he would always play at least average defense. Luka has flaws in his game that are worthy of criticism and his conditioning and his willingness to defend on among them. We criticized 25 year old Lebron despite the fact he had already won 2 MVPs and led a worse Cleveland team to the Finals by the end of his 7th season. We criticized a young Kobe for his flaws despite winning three titles by the end of his 7th season. Lebron is not the ultimate standard but when you compare him with Luka as players who came into the NBA at 19 through their 7th season, Lebron played 98 more games that Luka has at the same point in their careers. Kobe played 46 more games. The Kobe comparison will become more relevant the longer Luka is in purple and gold. Much like Nico, those fans have also been raised in the Mamba mentality religion. Slow walks to the bench and to the locker room due to injuries that may be connected to not being in shape will not sit well with them.

[Thomkal]

OMG Pacers steal another win from Cleveland

[INDalltheway]

wow Pacers

You can say this again! I blacked out for a few minutes after that comeback win. Haliburton has undoubtedly taken the "Most Overrated" vote personally.

[Thomkal]

Thanks restof the league-you just made a monster!

[Ksyrup]

First time in NBA history the home team has lost all 4 Game 1s in the second round.

I'd have to say I still expect Boston to win out, TWolves likely have a good chance depending on the extent of Curry's injury, and it wouldn't shock me if OKC won 4 straight (or at least pulled out the series). Cleveland may be in trouble, though, as they were only a half-game better than the Pacers since January 1st (I think that was the stat I saw). The Pacers are trouble, and with 2 games on the road in the bag, should win the series.

[miami_fan]

You can say this again! I blacked out for a few minutes after that comeback win. Haliburton has undoubtedly taken the "Most Overrated" vote personally.

Based on the reasoning that was given and how things are going this season, he can probably count on being voted #1 once again. For whatever that's worth.

[miami_fan]

About time Thibs. Any chance you get to take KAT off the court on the defensive end.

[JPhillips]

DO NOT GET A TWENTY-POINT LEAD!!!

[Jas_lov]

I hope the Celtics lose to punish the strategy of shooting 100 3 pointers and missing 75 of them. It's so horrible to watch and they have no other strategy except we need to make our 3s. Knicks and Pacers at least drive to the basket a little bit. That's how they both came back.

[JPhillips]

Saw this fun info.

Home teams in round 2 are +16 in points with a 1-7 record.

[dubb93]

I really hope we get another Pacers-Knicks series.

[miami_fan]

I hope the Celtics lose to punish the strategy of shooting 100 3 pointers and missing 75 of them. It's so horrible to watch and they have no other strategy except we need to make our 3s. Knicks and Pacers at least drive to the basket a little bit. That's how they both came back.

I agree with the general point but I am not that bothered by them taking the 100 threes. It is the lack of offensive flow that is the issue IMO. They need a U9 coach from one of the local rec leagues to tell them to make at least 5-10 passes before shooting the ball. The Celtics played like an offense in football up by three TDs in the 4th quarter going no huddle and snapping the ball with 35 seconds left on the play clock.

[JonInMiddleGA]

They need a U9 coach from one of the local rec leagues to tell them to make at least 5-10 passes before shooting the ball.

That implies that there are more than 1-2 coachable players on an NBA roster in 2025.

I don't believe that's the case.

[wustin]

The Knicks barely won and the Celtics missed a bunch of wide open 3s. 1 or 2 of those go in, the Celtics tie the series up despite Tatum playing poorly and how much of a non-factor Porzingis has been. That's how loaded the Celtics are.

Celtics need to clean up their half court offense when they aren't spamming their dribble drive kickouts. Tatum got triple teamed that last possession because Horford and White were lost on the floor. So a time out should've been called.

[wustin]

Dola

None of this matters cause OKC is gonna destroy everyone. Haven't seen a guard as dominant as SGA since Curry a decade ago.

[SirFozzie]

Ok.. file this under "cool but creepy". The guy who did those epic voiceover promos for the NBA on NBC in the 90's and early 2000's? He passed away in 2017.

But in 2025, he'll be doing promos for the return of the NBA on NBC.

How is this possible? AI of course. I don't mind this because they made a deal with the person's family. That's the important part, respecting the creator's rights. Most AI-projects just grab willy nilly and don't respect those rights.

The creepy part is a man who has been dead 8 years telling us all he'll see us all in October for the tip off the NBA season.

- YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JpUcuL7l1L0)

[dubb93]

It is an iconic voice. I wonder how far away we are from having other AI voices call games? Howard Cosell, Madden and Summerall, Harry Carey calling another Cubs game.

[Thomkal]

Wow Indy up 80-39 right now

[SirFozzie]

That Pacers-Cavs incident tonight would have gotten a "McFilthy and McNasty" (tm the late great Johnny Most) in that it would have worked back then, but sadly for instigators today, there is instant replay catching the instigator in the act.

John Salley, Isiah Thomas, Rick Mahorn, and Bill Lambeer are all shaking their heads in disgust about how SAWFT the game has become.

(To be honest, at full speed when I saw the highlight, I was confused that the man who threw the push was not the same man as being named as ejected on the title, then I saw the instant replay with the sneaky push/punch, and said "ooohhhhhhh"

[dubb93]

That Pacers-Cavs incident tonight would have gotten a "McFilthy and McNasty" (tm the late great Johnny Most) in that it would have worked back then, but sadly for instigators today, there is instant replay catching the instigator in the act.

John Salley, Isiah Thomas, Rick Mahorn, and Bill Lambeer are all shaking their heads in disgust about how SAWFT the game has become.

(To be honest, at full speed when I saw the highlight, I was confused that the man who threw the push was not the same man as being named as ejected on the title, then I saw the instant replay with the sneaky push/punch, and said "ooohhhhhhh"

If that was a punch I’m the Easter Bunny. They really let Hunter off the hook considering he barely got pushed by a guy moving backwards and then came and pushed Matherin as hard as he could knocking him completely down. ESPN’s headline calling it a punch is a real joke.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Mathurin is a clown.

This is the same half-wit that bumped a ref (female no less) while protesting an obvious hard foul and tried to stir shit with Giannis.

He seems intent on becoming the Pacers version of George Pickens.

[miami_fan]

If that was a punch I’m the Easter Bunny. They really let Hunter off the hook considering he barely got pushed by a guy moving backwards and then came and pushed Matherin as hard as he could knocking him completely down. ESPN’s headline calling it a punch is a real joke.

Identify however you want but of course that was a punch. It was not something I would have kicked him out of the game for but thems the rules.

The funny part is I'm not sure there would have been a clear view of this incident if not for this being a playoff game. Foz called it correctly. This is a clear case of a) trying to get into Hunter's head and b) hoping to get Hunter to react as he did so Mathurin could flop to the ground.

The Pacers getting back to back playoff series with division rivals is interesting to say the least.

[RainMaker]

First world problems but I sort of hate how all the teams use their alternate jerseys and courts in the playoffs. I get it as a fun little thing during the regular season, but I'll turn on a game and have no idea who's who for the first couple minutes.

Not a big deal now but I wonder in 20 years if it makes these old clips tough to decipher because every team has a whole new color scheme each season. There is something about just sticking to the basics in the playoffs.

[Lathum]

Mavs make a boneheaded deal to trade Luka then win the lottery.

hmm....

[miami_fan]

Outstanding job NBA! Way to protect Nico!:D

I don't believe the NBA did anything to rig the lottery and actually hate when that becomes the narrative.

[Lathum]

Outstanding job NBA! Way to protect Nico!:D

I don't believe the NBA did anything to rig the lottery and actually hate when that becomes the narrative.

I don't either.

[Atocep]

Dylan Harper and Wemby is going to be a hell of a combo.

[dubb93]

Sucks for Flagg bc idk how the fan base is going to react. If it was my team I’d be out until they are competitive again. I mean they punted a team that just finished as runner up the year before.

[RainMaker]

I don't know if it's a conspiracy but still fishy that one of the worst trades in history benefitting the NBA's premier franchise and then you magically win the lottery with a 1% chance is fishy.

[miami_fan]

Sucks for Flagg bc idk how the fan base is going to react. If it was my team I’d be out until they are competitive again. I mean they punted a team that just finished as runner up the year before.

The few Mavs games I saw after the trade, the fans still supported the players. Even in Luka's return game, they still supported Mavs players. I think Cooper Flagg fits most fans want and fit what Mavs fans have supported in their last two superstars. A potential great player that while not on Luka's level can grow to reach his full potential right before their eyes. He can be one of their own.

Here is the entire lottery order


1. Dallas
2. San Antonio
3. Philadelphia
4. Charlotte
5. Utah
6. Washington
7. New Orleans
8. Brooklyn
9. Toronto
10. Houston
11. Portland
12. Chicago
13. Atlanta
14. San Antonio

Do the Sixers draft another 6'10" forward who could not get his college team to the NCAA tournament?

[Atocep]

Do the Sixers draft another 6'10" forward who could not get his college team to the NCAA tournament?

I'd be really surprised considering how analytically based the franchise is under Morey. Analytics have Ace as a borderline 1st round guy. Right now he looks like he'd be a high usage, low efficiency offensive player that brings more value on the defensive end.

Assuming they hold onto the pick I think Edgecombe or Fears is more likely IMO.

[JonInMiddleGA]

I don't believe the NBA did anything to rig the lottery and actually hate when that becomes the narrative.

I'm your precise opposite.

[Kodos]

Add me to the not rigged camp.

[Ksyrup]

Sucks to see what happened to Tatum last night. I assume Achilles?

Regardless of sport, post-season injuries are especially cruel because, by definition, the best teams are still playing and an injury like that not only likely ends this season but significantly impacts the entire next season.

[miami_fan]

I know it sounds weird but I almost find it almost hopeful that it is something while serious is not an Achilles injury based solely Tatum's reaction. The more common reaction is the initial "felt like I got shot" injury tends to more shock than actually pain. Like wow, my Achilles just popped. Tatum looked like he was in severe pain last night. Like some other ligament tear or something more structural. I am just terrified basketball players and Achilles tears. That just feels like the one injury that is the closest to a career stopper for those players.

[dubb93]

I'm your precise opposite.

Why would they rig it for the Mavs? Wouldn’t they rather than Flagg in someplace like Chicago if they believe he’s a generational talent?

[miami_fan]

Back to the games, I still would not be shocked if the Celtics beat the Knicks three more times this season. I still trust the likes of Brown, Holiday, White, and Porzingis at their best more than I do the Knicks besides Brunson. Unfortunately, I don't think we have seen the best of any of those players this year.

A NBA final four of Thunder/Nuggets vs T-Wolves and Knicks vs. Pacers? And then the winner of those matchups in the Finals? I'm here for it.

[RainMaker]

Why would they rig it for the Mavs? Wouldn’t they rather than Flagg in someplace like Chicago if they believe he’s a generational talent?

Sending a top 5 player entering his prime to their premier market for pennies on the dollar was an enormous gift to the NBA.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Why would they rig it for the Mavs? Wouldn’t they rather than Flagg in someplace like Chicago if they believe he’s a generational talent?

As noted below, this was simply payback for sending a premier player to one of the two most important markets.

[miami_fan]

Well damn:(

Celtics' Jayson Tatum undergoes surgery for torn Achilles - ESPN (https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/45131551/celtics-jayson-tatum-undergoes-surgery-torn-achilles)

Boston Celtics forward Jayson Tatum underwent surgery on Tuesday to repair a ruptured right Achilles tendon, the team announced.

Tatum suffered the injury late in the fourth quarter of Monday night's loss to the New York Knicks.

Boston said there is no timetable currently available for his return but noted he is expected to make a full recovery.

[RainMaker]

Conspiracies aside, the funniest thing Nico could do is draft someone other than Cooper Flagg. Just go full on with the villain mode.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Conspiracies aside, the funniest thing Nico could do is draft someone other than Cooper Flagg. Just go full on with the villain mode.

Trade the pick to Atlanta ... I mean, it's only fair.

(though Atlanta would still have the woefully short end of the stick)

[GrantDawg]

I bought the WNBA League Pass today. What has happened to my life?

Sent from my SM-S938U using Tapatalk

[Sweed]

I bought the WNBA League Pass today. What has happened to my life?

Sent from my SM-S938U using Tapatalk

Glad to see it start up again. Clark with 10 assists, would have been 18-20 except Indiana missed a ton of layups.

[Ksyrup]

I can't do women's basketball. Too much PTSD from watching Mack play. However, I'm closing in on close to watching 24 hours of the college softball regionals in the past 36 hours.

[Kodos]

I bought the WNBA League Pass today. What has happened to my life?

Sent from my SM-S938U using Tapatalk

It’s a bargain.

[GrantDawg]

It’s a bargain.
No kidding. I just wantd to make sure I had most of the games, and just peeked at the price. $34.99 a year? Yes, please. I wish more leagues had that kind of deal. They want $29.95 a MONTH just for Braves games. No, that is not happening. So that means I have almost completely stopped watching baseball. Want to know how to kill off fans? Make your games hard to watch.

[Kodos]

I thought they raise the price some this year, but was happy to see they hadn’t.

[miami_fan]

It’s a bargain.

Depends on your perspective! It has increased over 57% since I first got my subscription!:rant:

Just kidding. Even going up from $19.99 when I first subscribed to the current price has not stopped it from being an automatic purchase for ten years running.

[miami_fan]

I can't do women's basketball. Too much PTSD from watching Mack play. However, I'm closing in on close to watching 24 hours of the college softball regionals in the past 36 hours.

I was this close to renewing ESPN+ for one month for the baseball and softball tournaments but I have been happy with the amounts of both that I have seen through YouTube TV.

[albionmoonlight]

The "Caitlin Clark is an innocent waif who must be protected from Angry Black Angel Reese" energy is strong on social media today.

[GrantDawg]

The "Caitlin Clark is an innocent waif who must be protected from Angry Black Angel Reese" energy is strong on social media today.
That crap is such a PIA. That rivalry could actually be fun, but instead we have to make it some white supremacist bullcrap. Clark's foul was clearly a blatant one. No big deal. Reese overreacted but that was pretty minor as well, and now the whole thing is overblown. Everybody got the fouls they deserved and no real damage done.

[Kodos]

I’m not a fan of Reese. Glad to see Caitlin kicking her ass on the court.

[Kodos]

TClark's foul was clearly a blatant one. No big deal. Reese overreacted but that was pretty minor as well, and now the whole thing is overblown. Everybody got the fouls they deserved and no real damage done.

Agreed.

[miami_fan]

That crap is such a PIA. That rivalry could actually be fun, but instead we have to make it some white supremacist bullcrap. Clark's foul was clearly a blatant one. No big deal. Reese overreacted but that was pretty minor as well, and now the whole thing is overblown. Everybody got the fouls they deserved and no real damage done.

Uncomfortable question for all. Is this an actual rivalry without all of that talk?

I mean this is not Bird vs Magic. That was a basketball rivalry that began in the national championship game that was tinged with race talk throughout the pregame talk. It grew in the pros fueled mostly by the basketball rivalry between the teams that drafted them that also included plenty of race talk and similar talk before Magic and Bird got there. Chicago is not LA, Indianapolis is not Boston. The Sky and Fever are not the storied franchises of the WNBA. Reese is not the only WNBA player who does not worship at the altar of CC. There are plenty of guards of all races for Clark to have a rivalry with. Let Reese have a rivalry with Aliyah Boston if there is a need of a rivalry between a Sky player and a Fever player.

[dubb93]

Yes the foul was intentional to stop an easy basket. Happens a million times a season. Reese is the one that escalated this and it’s easy to see why if you look into things she has said and how she has behaved towards Clark in the past. That’s removing all the racial stuff from the occasion.

[GrantDawg]

So we can only have rivalries if they follow exactly the Magic vs. Bird blueprint? They both played huge college playoff games against each other (which ended 1-1), drafted in the same year with lots of attention, and now play on regional rival teams. That seems like a good recipe for a rivalry to me. And it definitely pulls eyeballs. No, I dont think we have bad guy/good guy, or make it all about race to be fun. They both have big egos, and they are always going to have extra juice when they play each other.
Honestly, I like them both. Bigger fan of Clark, but I hope Reese continues to develop and Chicago puts things together.

Sent from my SM-S938U using Tapatalk

[miami_fan]

Yes the foul was intentional to stop an easy basket. Happens a million times a season. Reese is the one that escalated this and it’s easy to see why if you look into things she has said and how she has behaved towards Clark in the past. That’s removing all the racial stuff from the occasion.

The escalation also happens a million times a season. In fact, it is not the first time such a foul and the ensuing escalation happened in that building this month between two teams that plain don't like each other.

- YouTube (https://youtu.be/2C6cPy8m_Ek?si=YbzLze0uu7BXVkih)

Somehow, even with the dislike/hate between the Pacers and the Bucks, this incident occurred without the need for everyone to go into think piece mode because things like this happen a million time a season.

[dubb93]

The escalation also happens a million times a season. In fact, it is not the first time such a foul and the ensuing escalation happened in that building this month between two teams that plain don't like each other.

- YouTube (https://youtu.be/2C6cPy8m_Ek?si=YbzLze0uu7BXVkih)

Somehow, even with the dislike/hate between the Pacers and the Bucks, this incident occurred without the need for everyone to go into think piece mode because things like this happen a million time a season.

Yea, well Clark is different. What if that was LeBron there? There is a difference when things happens with lesser players and when it happens with generational players. You don’t have to like that Clark is that guy in the WNBA but it is what it is.

[Lathum]

Tyrese Haliburton invites heckled Pacers fan from New York City - ESPN (https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/45226433/tyrese-haliburton-invites-heckled-pacers-fan-new-york-city)

[miami_fan]

So we can only have rivalries if they follow exactly the Magic vs. Bird blueprint? They both played huge college playoff games against each other (which ended 1-1), drafted in the same year with lots of attention, and now play on regional rival teams. That seems like a good recipe for a rivalry to me. And it definitely pulls eyeballs. No, I dont think we have bad guy/good guy, or make it all about race to be fun. They both have big egos, and they are always going to have extra juice when they play each other.
Honestly, I like them both. Bigger fan of Clark, but I hope Reese continues to develop and Chicago puts things together.

Sent from my SM-S938U using Tapatalk

They also played in two regular season games and the Big Ten conference title game against each other which ended with Clark being on the losing end all three times. Does that count as part of the rivalry?

You can have whatever rivalry you want. It does not have to follow the Magic vs Bird blueprint. I just don't think Clark or Reese look at each other as rivals despite how much fans and the media would like to create one a la Magic and Bird. Do Reese and Clark like each other? Probably not even though they have said that that it is not the case But rivals? Nah. While I believe Reese is a very good player, she is not playing at the level that Caitlin Clark is playing at for anyone to consider them rivals at this point in both of their careers. Hate from the media and fans and their dislike of each other is not enough for me to call it a rivalry. I wouldn't say that there is a rivalry between Clark and

I would even go a step further and say even if Reese thinks Clark is her rival, I can see Clark privately being so arrogant about her standing in the game, that she would consider it insulting for anyone to think of Reese is a rival of hers.

Now the Liberty and the Aces and Breanna Stewart and A'ja Wilson specifically? That is a rivalry for me.

[miami_fan]

Yea, well Clark is different. What if that was LeBron there? There is a difference when things happens with lesser players and when it happens with generational players. You don’t have to like that Clark is that guy in the WNBA but it is what it is.

What if it was Lebron was in Clark's place committing the flagrant foul and the guy he committed the foul against took Reese's place and escalated things?

Don't take this as an endorsement of the behavior, just proof that it is not a rare occurrence. And with that, may I introduce you to Isaiah Stewart aka Beef Stew?

- YouTube (https://youtu.be/7fXDZ8RLB5I?si=1xVquTSq4dHG5oGI)

[dubb93]

What if it was Lebron was in Clark's place committing the flagrant foul and the guy he committed the foul against took Reese's place and escalated things?

Don't take this as an endorsement of the behavior, just proof that it is not a rare occurrence. And with that, may I introduce you to Isaiah Stewart aka Beef Stew?

- YouTube (https://youtu.be/7fXDZ8RLB5I?si=1xVquTSq4dHG5oGI)

Yea I see where you are going but a big difference between a hard basketball foul and an elbow to the dome. As I said that very play happens every close basketball game. You don’t get up acting like that. She had her hand on the ball she didn’t headlock her and take her down or bulldog her from behind or punch or elbow her. She fouled her hard enough on the ball that she made sure the shot wasn’t made.

[miami_fan]

Yea I see where you are going but a big difference between a hard basketball foul and an elbow to the dome. As I said that very play happens every close basketball game. You don’t get up acting like that. She had her hand on the ball she didn’t headlock her and take her down or bulldog her from behind or punch or elbow her. She fouled her hard enough on the ball that she made sure the shot wasn’t made.

First, the difference was this reaction was directed to a generational talent and not some lesser talent. Now the difference is that this generational talent's hard foul was not as severe as that other generational talent's hard foul.

If you are of the opinion that no player who receive a hard foul should never ever react in the way Reese reacted, that's fine even though I vehemently disagree. Suggesting that Angel Reese shouldn't react that way or players that Caitlin Clark fouls shouldn't react that way is problematic to say the least.

[RainMaker]

Really tough to watch SGA.

[dubb93]

First, the difference was this reaction was directed to a generational talent and not some lesser talent. Now the difference is that this generational talent's hard foul was not as severe as that other generational talent's hard foul.

If you are of the opinion that no player who receive a hard foul should never ever react in the way Reese reacted, that's fine even though I vehemently disagree. Suggesting that Angel Reese shouldn't react that way or players that Caitlin Clark fouls shouldn't react that way is problematic to say the least.

The reason people are talking about it is because it is a generational player. And I’m also 100% of the opinion that no one should react like that on a basketball play. Sorry if I wasn’t clear because we both seem to be drifting into different points. Also I think you should look at those two plays again and see if you can tell the difference between a hard foul on the ball and a loose ball elbow to the face. Drastically different offenses.

Where were you at last season when Chicago committed 4 flagrant fouls on Clark? Those are all OK because Clark didn’t try to start a fist fight with the person that fouled her?

[dubb93]

Unrelated but how do you watch the Fever in the Indianapolis market? They were on NBA Network but I was blacked out. They weren’t on any other channels.

[miami_fan]

The reason people are talking about it is because it is a generational player. And I’m also 100% of the opinion that no one should react like that on a basketball play. Sorry if I wasn’t clear because we both seem to be drifting into different points. Also I think you should look at those two plays again and see if you can tell the difference between a hard foul on the ball and a loose ball elbow to the face. Drastically different offenses.

Where were you at last season when Chicago committed 4 flagrant fouls on Clark? Those are all OK because Clark didn’t try to start a fist fight with the person that fouled her?

As I said, I disagree with that opinion. While intentional hard fouls are a part of the game, we can't act like they are not intentional and hard. It was not dirty, it was not malicious. It was not an elbow to the face. It also was not a touch foul. It was not a player wrapping their arms around a player's waist and holding them so they did not take a shot and did not fall to the ground. It was not just a foul. It was a HARD FOUL. It wasn't an accident. It was done forcefully with intent but again not with any malice. It is perfectly reasonable for a player to not take to kindly to someone hitting them beyond what we all know to be normal contact for basketball, doing so forcefully with intent even when it is without malice. I understand the reaction of the fouled player. I understood it when Siakam did it. I understood it when Stewart did it. I understood it when Reese did it. I will always understand that player's frustration. Will some take it too far like Stewart did? Sure. Reese's reaction was not that. And again, we don't need to make this more than it is by suggesting a fistfight when we have spent the better part of the last twenty years clowning basketball players because we all know none of them actually want to fight.

As far as where I was when Chicago was committing flagrant fouls against Clark last year? I was probably ripping her teammates for not knocking one of the Sky players on their ass to let them know that roughing up a Fever player would not be tolerated. Or ripping her coach for not tossing chairs a la Bobby Knight to show that she was not tolerating one of her players being roughed up. Maybe even ripping Clark for not standing up for herself if her teammates didn't and then ripping her teammates and her coach for not standing up for her.

[sovereignstar v2]

The NBA is a blast to watch nowadays. ____ for three! ____ for three!

SGA runs into the defender and he will go to the line for two!

[Atocep]

SGA runs into the defender and he will go to the line for two!
Hey now, half the time he just falls down without contact.

[sovereignstar v2]

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[Cuckoo]

Really tough to watch SGA.

Not hard for me at all. Go Thunder!

:popcorn:

[JPhillips]

What a great comeback by the Pacers.

[RainMaker]

That was a pretty damn good basketball game.

[Danny]

Pacers and Knicks likely to tire each other out i wouldn't be shocked if Thunder win their next 7 straight.

[GrantDawg]

Liberty is eating the Fever alive on the inside. Fever has to figure that out.

Sent from my SM-S938U using Tapatalk

[sovereignstar v2]

What a well refereed game of basketball:lol:

[Thomkal]

Pacers did it again! Man I don't think they lead the entire game, they sure seem like a team of destiny

[Ksyrup]

Mostly watched the softball game instead of this, and thanks to the weather in OKC, that game ended late - like, 22 seconds left in the basketball game late. Amazing ending.

[miami_fan]

Basketball is such a beautiful sport when all five players on a team decide they are bust their ass up and down the court. Not that I don't find beauty in the half court game offensively and/or defensively. It is just the transition from defense to offense that involves five people busting their ass down the court, a pass here, a pass there resulting in a uncontested simple layup....chef's kisses.

It is so beautiful and artsy it is enough to make some think basketball is not a contact sport.

[Swaggs]

I really, really wish SGA could go back in time and play against the 80's Pistons or 76ers. Watching him push off, arm hook, and head butt defenders and get foul calls is so infuriating to watch.

[RainMaker]

Its insane how hard both these teams play. Nesmith is relentless.

[miami_fan]

I really, really wish SGA could go back in time and play against the 80's Pistons or 76ers. Watching him push off, arm hook, and head butt defenders and get foul calls is so infuriating to watch.

No disrespect but no you don't.

IMO, this was the one way the players were allowed to police themselves and place a cost on foul seeking. Unfortunately, we all clutch our pearls and removed it from the game because allowing the players to police themselves was not a good product to watch.

Sorry if that came off as too harsh. Funny enough, there is a sort of irony in me apologizing. I am particularly sensitive to the foul seeking/chasing conversation today. I was listening to a podcast where the commentators were suggesting the Pacers needed to "be more physical" with the Thunder and not allow them to run their offense so easily. Then, the commentators immediately covered their asses by saying they weren't saying the Pacers should try and hurt the Thunder and they should be more aggressive within the rules and much more verbal diarrhea after that in order to walk back the talk of being more physical. In other words, be more physical without touching them too hard.