I'm tired of hearing that teachers are underpaid

[st.cronin]

Just noticed this ... the schedule that I asked this girl, a college freshman, to type up, included this note:

"if you can not come in or are goin to be late, plz let me now. also if you need a day of you are scheduled, let me know.

thx"

Is she kidding?

[Raiders Army]

pix pls, k thx

[MJ4H]

I have to echo the pics request because I have no idea what else is going on in this thread.

[GoldenEagle]

I need the Flasch v. 1.24 translator please.

[Shkspr]

I think cronin is laboring under the misapprehension that teachers have the magical ability to MAKE people use correct grammar and spelling.

[MJ4H]

That's all I could make of it, too.

[Poli]

I'd edit this for truthiness, but I wouldn't know where to start.

[King of New York]

How do you know that it's her teachers' fault that she cannot spell?

Maybe they taught her well, and she never bothered to learn because she is lazy. Or maybe she is just dumb as a stick.

Of the three individuals involved in the learning process (student, parent, teacher), the teacher has by far the smallest role in determining the outcome.

[st.cronin]

By the way she is a stone fox.

[Raiders Army]

I say again:

Originally Posted by Raiders Army

pix pls, k thx

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by King of New York

How do you know that it's her teachers' fault that she cannot spell?

Maybe they taught her well, and she never bothered to learn because she is lazy. Or maybe she is just dumb as a stick.

Of the three individuals involved in the learning process (student, parent, teacher), the teacher has by far the smallest role in determining the outcome.

Ok, then I'm right, teachers aren't overpaid.

[Glengoyne]

Nah, It's probably an administrator's fault. Probably not allowing the teachers to actually fail anyone.

Well either that or she had all male teachers, and all of them simply passed her along 'cause she is hawt.

[Poli]

Originally Posted by Glengoyne

Nah, It's probably an administrator's fault. Probably not allowing the teachers to actually fail anyone.

Edited for truthiness. At least that's the Navy's main problem at my schoolhouse.

[rowech]

At least in the state of Ohio, even on our graduation tests, spelling does not count. Instead, essays are graded on content. So at least in Ohio, in a way, it's directed by the state.

[wade moore]

I was all ready to come out fightin' like I did with Edwards64 in a thread awhile ago, but... I also cannot understand what st. cronin's point is.

[Raiders Army]

Originally Posted by ardent enthusiast

Edited for truthiness. At least that's the Navy's main problem at my schoolhouse.

Truthiness. Word of the year!

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by wade moore

I was all ready to come out fightin' like I did with Edwards64 in a thread awhile ago, but... I also cannot understand what st. cronin's point is.

I blame my teachers.

[Poli]

Originally Posted by Raiders Army

Truthiness. Word of the year!

I've been using it like it's going out of style.

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

I blame my teachers.

[MJ4H]

Originally Posted by ardent enthusiast

I've been using it like it's going out of style.

It is definitely doing that.

[Tekneek]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

Just noticed this ... the schedule that I asked this girl, a college freshman, to type up, included this note:

"if you can not come in or are goin to be late, plz let me now. also if you need a day of you are scheduled, let me know.

thx"

Is she kidding?

What school is she attending?

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by Tekneek

What school is she attending?

Colorado

[clintl]

You should be blaming the cell phone industry, not teachers, for her spelling.

[flere-imsaho]

...and her prematurely arthritic thumbs.

[Tekneek]

Originally Posted by clintl

You should be blaming the cell phone industry, not teachers, for her spelling.

So the cell phone industry is teaching people how to communicate now? People can't figure out when to turn off "sms-speak" and use real english by the time they enter university?

[Barkeep49]

Actually peers are teaching each other how to communicate due to the commonplace nature of instant messaging and so I blame her peers.

[stevew]

I'm awaiting rkmsuf's contribution to this thread.

[LoneStarGirl]

This is my first semester as a teacher and at Central High School in Little Rock (remember the little rock 9?) any teacher that has 25% of her students with a D or F gets severly repremanded and called out on at the end of the 9 week faculty staff meetings.Also, if the kid is 504, which basically means they have a learning disability, you aren't allowed to fail them. MY first nine weeks teaching I had a student who had a 7% because he refused to do any work at all. He just brought his calculator and played games on it all class. But the head of the math department and his assistant principal told me I had to pass him or the school would get sued and I would get fired.

[Shkspr]

Originally Posted by LoneStarGirl

MY first nine weeks teaching I had a student who had a 7% because he refused to do any work at all. He just brought his calculator and played games on it all class. But the head of the math department and his assistant principal told me I had to pass him or the school would get sued and I would get fired.

Clearly the answer, then, is to pass a law that says that anyone who sues the school district over being failed must employ a lawyer for the task who received similar marks (in this case 7%) on his exams at law school.
Problem solved. After all, if the answer is to pass them anyway, they must be qualified for those tasks.

[Young Drachma]

I overheard a mother at Fazoli's last night whining to her daughter about how text messaging is destroying conversation and language. I didn't realize that the paranoia brigade was complaining about this now, too.

[Joe]

Originally Posted by LoneStarGirl

This is my first semester as a teacher and at Central High School in Little Rock (remember the little rock 9?) any teacher that has 25% of her students with a D or F gets severly repremanded and called out on at the end of the 9 week faculty staff meetings.Also, if the kid is 504, which basically means they have a learning disability, you aren't allowed to fail them. MY first nine weeks teaching I had a student who had a 7% because he refused to do any work at all. He just brought his calculator and played games on it all class. But the head of the math department and his assistant principal told me I had to pass him or the school would get sued and I would get fired.

Was he learning disabled?

[Joe]

Originally Posted by Dark Cloud

I overheard a mother at Fazoli's last night whining to her daughter about how text messaging is destroying conversation and language. I didn't realize that the paranoia brigade was complaining about this now, too.

Fazoli's is doing more to destroy society than text messaging is

[panerd]

Originally Posted by LoneStarGirl

This is my first semester as a teacher and at Central High School in Little Rock (remember the little rock 9?) any teacher that has 25% of her students with a D or F gets severly repremanded and called out on at the end of the 9 week faculty staff meetings.Also, if the kid is 504, which basically means they have a learning disability, you aren't allowed to fail them. MY first nine weeks teaching I had a student who had a 7% because he refused to do any work at all. He just brought his calculator and played games on it all class. But the head of the math department and his assistant principal told me I had to pass him or the school would get sued and I would get fired.

Are you in a teacher's union? I ask only because your math chair and assistant principal are both full of shit. You can fail kids who are on 504's. Now it might get dicey seeing as it is your first year teaching and all, but our school has plenty of kids on 504's who fail and we have the exact same federal guidelines you guys have. I am sorry to hear (from the staff meeting callouts, etc.) that you teach at such a miserable school. Please get out and see what else is out there before you blow off the profession.

[LoneStarGirl]

I dont plan on blowing off the profession, I enjoy teaching math. The kid in question does not appear to have a learning disability. He was lazy and spoiled. He came to me twice asking for extra credit, and then proceeded to leave it on the ground at the end of the period. I wanted to fail him so bad but I was warned against it. It seems my school's administrators are very weak, the 50th anniversary of our school is next year, so we are going to have a lot of press. Bush is giong to visit us, etc. A month ago we took 2 guns off of kids but the principal refuses to put in metal detectors because it would make our school look ugly for the anniversary. They are scheduled to be put in in 2008.

[LoneStarGirl]

Oh and panerd I have not joined the union yet.... If things continue in this direction I will by next year

[wade moore]

So I'm confused. What is the specific logic on why you can't fail this kid? What grounds would this kid sue on that others wouldn't?

[Mac Howard]

I think the thread heading has it the wrong way around. You get what you pay for and we're simply not paying enough to get the best material. I'm not impressed with some of my daughter's teachers but nor would I do the job they do for the pay they get.

[clintl]

Originally Posted by LoneStarGirl

This is my first semester as a teacher and at Central High School in Little Rock (remember the little rock 9?) any teacher that has 25% of her students with a D or F gets severly repremanded and called out on at the end of the 9 week faculty staff meetings.Also, if the kid is 504, which basically means they have a learning disability, you aren't allowed to fail them. MY first nine weeks teaching I had a student who had a 7% because he refused to do any work at all. He just brought his calculator and played games on it all class. But the head of the math department and his assistant principal told me I had to pass him or the school would get sued and I would get fired.

I have to say that these kinds of stories astound me, because they are so at odds with what I have experienced both as a long-term substitute and now as a student teacher in two different school districts. If students failed, we failed them - there was no pressure from administrators to do otherwise. In fact, as a long-term sub, I had a vice principal specifically tell me to fail students who deserved to be failed, and not give them breaks they didn't deserve.

[LoneStarGirl]

Well i came in the semester about 4 weeks after it started, after these kids had run off 3 other teachers. They are the bottom of the barrel, the worst of the worst. I have 140 students and 30 are 504. To accomidate these kids you have to go to extremes, give them 4 hours instead of 2 to take tests, give the tests to them orally (its math!) Give them shorter tests, make them sit in the front of the classroom, write the notes out for them, give them 2-3 copies of every assignment, and give them a week to complete each page, instead of 2 nights like the other kids. 25 of the 30 504 kids I have are fine. They are lazy and have rich parents who know their kids are stupid, so they got a shrink to label them. The other 5 are trully disabled, dislexic, ADD, ADHD. But when its time for report cards, if you cannot prove that you did every single one of the things you were supposed to do to 'help' these 504's. You cannot fail them. The administrators won't let you. Also, by the 6th week, if the kid is failing, you have to have a parent conference with the 504 parents. If the conference does not take place because the parents work, or just didn't show up, you cannot fail the kids. Its crazy

[AZSpeechCoach]

Originally Posted by wade moore

So I'm confused. What is the specific logic on why you can't fail this kid? What grounds would this kid sue on that others wouldn't?

504 is a section of the Special Education law. Basically, 504 kids have some physical challenge, and require accommodations to help them succeed. An example would be a student woth hearing loss needs to be seated up front, or a student with ADD needs special instructions and reminders. The students do not have a specific learning disability, but need some more help. Having said that, there is no reason why LSG's student should have passed, other than the school was violating the federal law in some way, and did not want to risk a lawsuit in such a tricky year. Maybe the student's 504 plan was mishandled. Maybe the school didn't take care of the required paperwork. Maybe the required accommodations were not done correctly. Maybe the school knows that this parent will sue for any reason and just doesn't want to deal with that. We all have students like that.

edit...What LSG said...

[LoneStarGirl]

I didn't know there were so many teachers on this board.

[Barkeep49]

Originally Posted by LoneStarGirl

I didn't know there were so many teachers on this board.

I think there are at least half a dozen who post regularly.

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by LoneStarGirl

MY first nine weeks teaching I had a student who had a 7% because he refused to do any work at all. He just brought his calculator and played games on it all class. But the head of the math department and his assistant principal told me I had to pass him or the school would get sued and I would get fired.

I think I was confused by the "refused to do any work at all" and thought this was not a 504 kid...

Your explanation I understand (my fiance is a Kindergarten teacher).. that being said, I'm so stubborn that I would fail him if I think I have a good defense as to why and let the school deal with it. If they don't back me, I don't want to work for them anyways.

However, I understand why you wouldn't want to do that.

[AZSpeechCoach]

I just keep a low profile in education threads because every time a thread like this gets started, we wind up having to defend the entire profession against the people who had bad experiences in school, or know someone who had a bad teacher. We have to explain why we are so overpaid, and get so much time off, and why we need a union when we never do any work. I get it enough from the kids I teach, why would I deal with it here?

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by AZSpeechCoach

I just keep a low profile in education threads because every time a thread like this gets started, we wind up having to defend the entire profession against the people who had bad experiences in school, or know someone who had a bad teacher. We have to explain why we are so overpaid, and get so much time off, and why we need a union when we never do any work. I get it enough from the kids I teach, why would I deal with it here?

Yeah, I'm not sure if you were involved in the thread where I was on the defensive a couple of months back...

I'll never understand why people don't think that teaching should be one of the highest paid professions.

[MJ4H]

I have had no problem failing students with learning disabilities in the past at my school. You just need to make sure you've done your best with them and any modifications that are suggested in their IEPs have been made.

[AZSpeechCoach]

Originally Posted by wade moore

Yeah, I'm not sure if you were involved in the thread where I was on the defensive a couple of months back...

I'll never understand why people don't think that teaching should be one of the highest paid professions.

I think I posted a little bit. Despite being a debate coach, I have a hard time debating those who are convinced they are right, and have no defense other than that they are right. In my world, you have to back up your claims with evidence. It makes the debate so much better.

[LoneStarGirl]

I definitly understand that AZSpeechCoach, I am having to do that with my own family it seems. They dont understand why I have this whole week off and am getting paid for. I honestly dont think teachers are underpaid. I am content with my salary. Once I get my masters in 2 years I get about a $10,000 raise and I will be making more than other people who graduated college the same time i did. Once I get my PhD I will be making around 70K to work 9 months a year. I think I can deal with that

[AZSpeechCoach]

But you don't work 9 months a year. To keep up with certification requirements, curruciulum changes, district requirements, and national tournament preparation (okay, this is my deal), it winds up being a 10-11 month job, and that is if you make a concerted effort to avoid doing school stuff for the remaining month. I began on August 1, and I will not be done until Memorial Day. By golly, I want my three months off. Mrs. SpeechCoach would be very happy with my attitude then

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by LoneStarGirl

I definitly understand that AZSpeechCoach, I am having to do that with my own family it seems. They dont understand why I have this whole week off and am getting paid for. I honestly dont think teachers are underpaid. I am content with my salary. Once I get my masters in 2 years I get about a $10,000 raise and I will be making more than other people who graduated college the same time i did. Once I get my PhD I will be making around 70K to work 9 months a year. I think I can deal with that

The broad stroke of my position is that the best and the brightest should be teaching.

However, the payscale as it is now that just does not happen (no slight intended at you). Many teachers are sadly underskilled and our best go into professions that are much more lucrative. IMO, the payscale should be such that more of those folks choose teaching as their profession.