Toddler's temper ousts family from plane

[SuperGrover]

Sorry, it's not that hard to get your kids under control. She's 3 years old, not 3 months. With any type of discipline she would know that she can't in fact throw a tantrum and not have reprecussions.

Parents are all about coddling these days. It doesn't work. You don't neeed to beat your kids to have effective discipline. You do need to give them consequences for their actions. Even at three, they will understand.

This kid has no discipline whicih is why they couldn't console her. Now it's everyone's fault but the parents. Imagine how angry they would be if the situation were reversed, the airline waited, and they missed a connection because some brat couldn't be contained.

Control your kids. Not everyone thinks they're cute.

[SuperGrover]

One more thing, when did it become okay to hit your parents. Had I hit my mother when I was three, she would've beat the living Hell out of me.


I only got spanked once in my life but I knew my boundaries.

[Toddzilla]

Originally Posted by SuperGrover

Sorry, it's not that hard to get your kids under control.

[Butter]

Originally Posted by Huckleberry

1.) Spanking the kid would have made the situation worse, knucklehead.

Not if you do it right. Although more than likely in this case, I would've spanked the kid after the fact for causing the scene in the first place... but first, as someone else said I would've gotten my kid in the seat, strapped them in, and been done with it. That's how it would've gone down. My 4 year old has lost it before. And usually if we're at home I just let him cry it out.... but if it is in public, then we either adjourn to the bathroom for a nice chat, or we can leave. My 6 year old still has control problems, but is much better about them now than he was 3 years ago.

It's never come to that, because he knows to calm down before we have to visit the bathroom. It's all about what works with your kids. My kids are good most of the time, but all kids push boundaries. In this case, whether the kid was remembering the pain of the initial flight in or not, they still needed to be in a seat... and delaying a flight for 15 minutes while somebody calms their kid down is excessive and was dealt with appropriately. If I couldn't control my child for that length of time, I would fully expect to be excused and asked to leave wherever I was.

[Subby]

Originally Posted by SuperGrover

Sorry, it's not that hard to get your kids under control.

Sorry, but this is a dumb blanket statement.

[molson]

Originally Posted by Subby

Sorry, but this is a dumb blanket statement.

Maybe, but it's irrelevant. It's doesn't matter to me how difficult it is, if you can't control them, keep them the hell out of movie theaters, restaurants, and even planes except in extremely rare circumstances.

[Toddzilla]

Originally Posted by Subby

Sorry, but this is a dumb blanket statement.

Originally Posted by molson

It's doesn't matter to me how difficult it is, if you can't control them, keep them the hell out of movie theaters, restaurants, and even planes except in extremely rare circumstances.

True and True.

[Subby]

Originally Posted by molson

Maybe, but it's irrelevant. It's doesn't matter to me how difficult it is, if you can't control them, keep them the hell out of movie theaters, restaurants, and even planes except in extremely rare circumstances.

Unfortunately, there are some people who *don't* have kids that are so self-involved that even the slightest peep from a kid qualifies as the child being out of control. I guess as long as my kids are behaving to my satisfaction, I'll take them wherever I want.

[oykib]

Originally Posted by Subby

Unfortunately, there are some people who *don't* have kids that are so self-involved that even the slightest peep from a kid qualifies as the child being out of control. I guess as long as my kids are behaving to my satisfaction, I'll take them wherever I want.

I think that you're missing the point. Your kids are ypur responsibility. I have no idea whether you keep your kids under control or not. But When someone goes to a movie or out for dinner or whatever, they didn'rt pay good money to be bothered by what you consider to be a reasonable amount of tantrum from your kids.

It wouldn't surprise me to see AirTran get an uptick in business from this story. All things being equal, I'd fly them over another bargain carrier if this were their normal policy. That goes any restaurants, cafes, or thetres that had such a policy too.

[DanGarion]

Originally Posted by Toddzilla

Well ,the plane takes off and my daughter starts to lose it. She's scared and the change in pressure is really hurting her head and ears. Buckled in her seat, he's crying pretty loud and kicking the seat in front of her. Well this guy just loses his temper, too. Yelling at us to make her stop, etc. I re-iterate my offer to switch seats, but he refuses. So what can I do? I told the guy "Listen, you're probably in your 40's, and my daughter is 3. She can't help the way she acts, but you can. Either let me help you or shut the hell up." He groused the entire flight, but didn't make to big of a scene. On the way back, we gave my daughter a big dose of cold medicine to clear up her head and make her drowsy, and we checked the car seat so her legs wouldn't reach the seat in front.

See this guy was just a plain ass. You did everything you could in regards to the problem and he just wanted to be a dick.

[Toddzilla]

Just so we're clear (a parent speaking to non-parents), the phrase "keeping you kid under control" does not equal "keeping your kid perfectly still and silent". Kids make noise. They talk, they laugh, they yell, they cry. It certainly is *not* appropriate for kids to scream and cry continuously in an environment where atmosphere is important (out to dinner, at the movies, in an airplane to a much lesser extent), but to expect children - be them babies, toddlers, or teenagers - to be silent is a complete misunderstanding and misconception on your part, and that is your problem to deal with, not the parents.

[Butter]

Originally Posted by oykib

But When someone goes to a movie or out for dinner or whatever, they didn'rt pay good money to be bothered by what you consider to be a reasonable amount of tantrum from your kids.

When I'm paying good money for that same dinner, then no one else gets to fucking tell me what is a reasonable amount of noise from my child, so long as they are not being physically disruptive. Deal with it. There are lines that are crossed, but as others said, a kid who is making a bit of noise is not necessarily out of control just because there are people nearby who don't like kids.

However, in this case we are talking about a kid causing a physical disruption in others' lives. There is a large difference.

[Subby]

Originally Posted by oykib

I think that you're missing the point. Your kids are ypur responsibility. I have no idea whether you keep your kids under control or not. But When someone goes to a movie or out for dinner or whatever, they didn'rt pay good money to be bothered by what you consider to be a reasonable amount of tantrum from your kids.

Oh they are MY responsibility? Thanks. That's probably where I fucked up.

[Mustang]

It took a few messages but, glad to see the thread devolved into the 'I have kids so you can't say anything' vs 'I don't have kids so control them' argument.

Nicely done...

[DanGarion]

You know what I get tired of? Parents that let their children run all around a restaurant (even if it's just around where they are seated). I also hate it when parents don't do anything about their children yelling, there is a time and a place for yelling and it's not when you are at the movies or out to dinner.

If a child is being disruptive, be it vocally or physically it is the parents responsibility to control them and to be extra sensitive to the others around them. This is the responsibility you take on by having children and taking them out, you have to be more aware as to how it affects others.

[Butter]

Originally Posted by Mustang

It took a few messages but, glad to see the thread devolved into ridiculous blanket statements about uncontrollable monster children.

Fix'd.

I think we all agree there are limits. I think the argument is who gets to set the limits. And for some people there is no middle ground.

[DanGarion]

Originally Posted by Butter_of_69

Fix'd.

I think we all agree there are limits. I think the argument is who gets to set the limits. And for some people there is no middle ground.

The middle ground is a well behaved child.

[BrianD]

Originally Posted by Butter_of_69

When I'm paying good money for that same dinner, then no one else gets to fucking tell me what is a reasonable amount of noise from my child, so long as they are not being physically disruptive. Deal with it. There are lines that are crossed, but as others said, a kid who is making a bit of noise is not necessarily out of control just because there are people nearby who don't like kids.

However, in this case we are talking about a kid causing a physical disruption in others' lives. There is a large difference.

I've often thought that restaurants should have a family section of the restaurant. Kids do make noise and parents shouldn't be prevented from going to the restaurant (assuming they make reasonable efforts with their kids), but even reasonable noise can be disturbing to people. Why not put all the families with kids in one section and the families without kids in another section? At least that would localize the noise and hopefully be a decent compromise.

[Butter]

Originally Posted by dangarion

The middle ground is a well behaved child.

As mentioned before, well behaved is in the eye of the beholder. A bit of noise that is reasonable to some is outrageous to others. For some there is no middle ground.

[molson]

Originally Posted by Butter_of_69

When I'm paying good money for that same dinner, then no one else gets to fucking tell me what is a reasonable amount of noise from my child, so long as they are not being physically disruptive. Deal with it. There are lines that are crossed, but as others said, a kid who is making a bit of noise is not necessarily out of control just because there are people nearby who don't like kids.

There's a "bit of noise" and there's "no one else gets to fucking tell me what is a reasonable amount of noise from my child". Your latter comment is a little ridiculous, because courtesy is ALL about the other party, not your own interpretations of what is reasonable. If someone thinks its reasonable to park across 3 handicap spaces, they're still a jackass. I honestly think some parents are amused by watching the rest of deal with what they deal with all day.

Here are the lines, (just in my opinion), since people are talking about different things:
Restaurants: Everyone's talking and laughing, so obviously that's no big deal. I don't give a crap what a little kid or anyone else is doing unless it's volume is to the point I have trouble conversing myself.
Movies: If it's a G-rated kids movie, then there's leeway, but you have to expect that going in. But if you're taking your kids to a movie that the general population is attending, and they don't have the discipline to stay completely quiet, wait for the video.
Planes: I really think planes demand the most courtesy in terms of drugging your kid or taking the long drive instead. Some people need to work on planes, some people need to sleep, and everyone can hear what everyone else is doing. Talking at a reasonable volume is fine (and from my experiences, most kids are great on planes - either that or parents are politely drugging them or waiting until they're older to take the long vacation).
Public places: People really need to pay attention to where their kids are. If I have use to an ATM, and there's a random little kid playing with it, it shouldn't be my job to discipline him in getting him to move and figure out where his parents are (that happened yesterday).
Court: My favorite place - any peep and the bailiff whisks the kid and mother away.

I don't hate kids. But I personally would never have any until I was financially comfortable to the point where I could afford child care or have a stay-at-home parent. I am alarmed daily at the kinds of people are that reproducing quickly in our country.

[Drake]

I figure we were all children once, and as such, surely annoyed somebody. I'm willing to cut parents and kids some slack.

[Subby]

We were at TGI Fridays one time and one of my four year olds got up from the table because he had to go to the bathroom and he totally dropped his pants and started peeing right next to the booth!

Fortunately he did this quielty and did not disturb the surrounding casual dining patrons. Plus he is a little angel and has the cutest little bottom. Like two little bubbles!

[Drake]

Okay, Subby wasn't ever a kid. He emerged fully formed from the forehead of Zeus. He's that sexy.

[DanGarion]

Originally Posted by Butter_of_69

As mentioned before, well behaved is in the eye of the beholder. A bit of noise that is reasonable to some is outrageous to others. For some there is no middle ground.

Think of what bothered you when you didn't have children and then times it by two. That's probably a good place to start.

A bit of noise is fine, but is that bit of noise the kid going. "MOM! MOM! LOOK AT THAT!", "MOM I' HUNGRY!", "MOMMY"

For 15 minutes? That disruptive.

[BrianD]

Originally Posted by Drake

I figure we were all children once, and as such, surely annoyed somebody. I'm willing to cut parents and kids some slack.

Nah, parents earn their slack. If they make an effort and are willing to take their kids outside for a talk when they get really bad, I'll give them some slack. The parents who feel that they deserve a meal out and can take that time to not pay attention to their kids get no slack. Efforts need to be made on both sides.

[DanGarion]

Originally Posted by Subby

We were at TGI Fridays one time and one of my four year olds got up from the table because he had to go to the bathroom and he totally dropped his pants and started peeing right next to the booth!

Fortunately he did this quielty and did not disturb the surrounding casual dining patrons. Plus he is a little angel and has the cutest little bottom. Like two little bubbles!

First problem was that you took your child to TGIFridays.

[DanGarion]

Parents look at it this way. If there was a group sitting next to and they are being loud and obnoxious (such as cussing loudly and yelling). What are you going to do about it?

[DanGarion]

Originally Posted by BrianD

Nah, parents earn their slack. If they make an effort and are willing to take their kids outside for a talk when they get really bad, I'll give them some slack. The parents who feel that they deserve a meal out and can take that time to not pay attention to their kids get no slack. Efforts need to be made on both sides.

Agreed. It's the ones that let their children talk over the PG-13/R rated movie that the child shouldn't be watching in the first place. And the parents that let their children run around the theater without doing anything about it that get no slack.

[Butter]

Originally Posted by molson

There's a "bit of noise" and there's "no one else gets to fucking tell me what is a reasonable amount of noise from my child". Your latter comment is a little ridiculous, because courtesy is ALL about the other party, not your own interpretations of what is reasonable.

The previous statement I was referencing, however, said that people going out "didn't pay good money to be bothered" by a child. So, the inference I got was that the childless get to determine what is reasonable behavior for the child, instead of the parents. And, insofar as that statement is concerned, "no one else gets to fucking tell me what is a reasonable amount of noise from my child". I've never had a complaint, but on occasion my wife has been approached by people in grocery stores with suggestions about how to control our crying, fit-pitching child... to which her response has always been: fuck off (well, in more polite terms).

If you want to get into a discussion about a lack of civility in society, that's one thing... But it is certainly not confined to children's behavior, and it is certainly not confined to people being overall less tolerant of any perceived slights. They're both contributing factors.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by Toddzilla

Just so we're clear (a parent speaking to non-parents), the phrase "keeping you kid under control" does not equal "keeping your kid perfectly still and silent". Kids make noise. They talk, they laugh, they yell, they cry. It certainly is *not* appropriate for kids to scream and cry continuously in an environment where atmosphere is important (out to dinner, at the movies, in an airplane to a much lesser extent), but to expect children - be them babies, toddlers, or teenagers - to be silent is a complete misunderstanding and misconception on your part, and that is your problem to deal with, not the parents.

Aside from the fact that in a non-children's movie, if you kid is talking, laughing, yelling, or crying, even if it isn't "continuously", you are completely ruining the movie experience for everyone else in the theater as much as some guy who wants to talk during the movie is.

[DanGarion]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Aside from the fact that in a non-children's movie, if you kid is talking, laughing, yelling, or crying, even if it isn't "continuously", you are completely ruining the movie experience for everyone else in the theater as much as some guy who wants to talk during the movie is.

Unfortunately there is a certain amount of parents that don't think there is such a movie. They think their children should go with them to see, "The Hitcher" with a side of "Wedding Crashers". And then they wonder why Johnny misbehaves.

[Subby]

Sin City is my six year old's favorite movie. The cartoon-style violence and clever dialogue remind him of Tom and Jerry. When we saw it in the theater together he kept screaming for Rosario Dawson's character to get killed because she had such a frightening hair style. A couple of people yelled at him to shut up, but his yelling was really cute in a Verne Troyer sort of way that I just threw my hands up in the air and chuckled!

[DanGarion]

Originally Posted by Subby

Sin City is my six year old's favorite movie. The cartoon-style violence and clever dialogue remind him of Tom and Jerry. When we saw it in the theater together he kept screaming for Rosario Dawson's character to get killed because she had such a frightening hair style. A couple of people yelled at him to shut up, but his yelling was really cute in a Verne Troyer sort of way that I just threw my hands up in the air and chuckled!

Haha. comedy gold.

[ISiddiqui]

Depends on your meaning of comedy... I guess. If I paid to see the movie, I wouldn't have found it funny.

[DanGarion]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Depends on your meaning of comedy... I guess. If I paid to see the movie, I wouldn't have found it funny.

I'm assuming he was joking. If he's not then it's not funny...

[ISiddiqui]

I'm lost when there is a lack of smilies .

[panerd]

Can we come to an agreement on this one then? I will give you and your family some slack at restaurants like Applebee's (etc.) because kids will be kids and I do understand a little bit about how kids behave. And then when you choose to take your kids to a bar to eat and the adults around you are rowdy you can give us some slack with occasional cussing and debauchery because you know you are with your 6 year olds eating at a fucking bar.

[Subby]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Depends on your meaning of comedy... I guess. If I paid to see the movie, I wouldn't have found it funny.

I guess you had to be there, then - because he is really, really cute (like Danny Pintauro in his heyday cute) - so you see this cute kid screaming at the screen and pleading for violence - I don't know - I guess it just struck me as completely hilarious.

[ISiddiqui]

We should have a scared smilie... oh, and as hilarious as it may have been, I wouldn't have minded it in a restaurant like a Fridays or something, it isn't so much in a movie theater, especially with the cost of tickets these days.

[rkmsuf]

lol at dudes getting upset because they took their date to Fridays and families were there with loud kids.

[ISiddiqui]

No one should be upset if they went to Fridays and some kids were loud. It's Fridays for fuck's sake! Now if the kid was constantly screaming... that's another issue, as I'm sure the resulting headache wouldn't be welcomed by anyone. But just loud kids... pfft. It's a Fridays for crying out loud.

[Butter]

Originally Posted by panerd

Can we come to an agreement on this one then? I will give you and your family some slack at restaurants like Applebee's (etc.) because kids will be kids and I do understand a little bit about how kids behave. And then when you choose to take your kids to a bar to eat and the adults around you are rowdy you can give us some slack with occasional cussing and debauchery because you know you are with your 6 year olds eating at a fucking bar.

Is it the "bar" at that same Applebee's?

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by panerd

Can we come to an agreement on this one then? I will give you and your family some slack at restaurants like Applebee's (etc.) because kids will be kids and I do understand a little bit about how kids behave. And then when you choose to take your kids to a bar to eat and the adults around you are rowdy you can give us some slack with occasional cussing and debauchery because you know you are with your 6 year olds eating at a fucking bar.

Forgetting about bars, and moving on to restaurants, doesn't this just make noise in general louder and louder? I moved to Chicago recently, and it feels like every time I go to a nice restaurant, everyone is just way too loud. I blame yuppies most, but kids are to blame as well. Or at least families -- come to think of it, the last time I remember was at a Trattoria, and there was a family (or two) at a table near us, and the parents were by far more annoying than the kids.

[panerd]

Originally Posted by Butter_of_69

Is it the "bar" at that same Applebee's?

I am talking actual bars. They have tables to sit at and eat but after 8:00 those same tables will be filled with people drinking alcohol. This is obviously from personal experience. There is a Missouri home football game during the day, afterwards the fans go to actual bars to celebrate (not McDonalds, not even Fridays, real bars), and then people with their kids get upset when it is rowdy and loud.

[heybrad]

Originally Posted by Butter_of_69

If you want to get into a discussion about a lack of civility in society, that's one thing...

That's what keeps running through my mind when reading this thread. Everyone is so bent out of shape on how a child might disrupt their movie or restaurant experience. The following scenario is far more likely and highly annoying.

*sitting in a restaurant or movie theater quiety*
*cell phone rings... answered by stupid fuck*
"JOHNSON HERE.... pause.... YEA, I'M IN A RESTAURANT, CAN'T TALK."
"WHAT, YOU'RE BREAKING UP"

[Huckleberry]

Originally Posted by Butter_of_69

In this case, whether the kid was remembering the pain of the initial flight in or not, they still needed to be in a seat... and delaying a flight for 15 minutes while somebody calms their kid down is excessive and was dealt with appropriately.

Once again absolutely nowhere does it say that the 15 minute delay was because of the child.

[rkmsuf]

Originally Posted by panerd

I am talking actual bars. They have tables to sit at and eat but after 8:00 those same tables will be filled with people drinking alcohol. This is obviously from personal experience. There is a Missouri home football game during the day, afterwards the fans go to actual bars to celebrate (not McDonalds, not even Fridays, real bars), and then people with their kids get upset when it is rowdy and loud.

ah, so what? I'm assuming they leave. Unless a couple of crooked stares derail the party train.

After 8:00 these things normally take care of themselves.

[DanGarion]

Originally Posted by Huckleberry

Once again absolutely nowhere does it say that the 15 minute delay was because of the child.

They already had 15 minutes to shut the kid up. Regardless if it was because of them.

[rkmsuf]

Originally Posted by dangarion

They already had 15 minutes to shut the kid up. Regardless if it was because of them.

If it has gone on since boarding and for 15 minutes since with little visable hope I think a resonable person would beging to think this may in fact be a problem for the flight.

That's just me. Some people would sit there for a couple hours hoping the child tired themself out. I think it's safe to assume the airline acted in good faith in trying to do what was best for the safe and timely completion of this flight.

[panerd]

Originally Posted by rkmsuf

ah, so what? I'm assuming they leave. Unless a couple of crooked stares derail the party train.

After 8:00 these things normally take care of themselves.

No they don't leave. They complain to the manager.