NHL:EHM Good and Bad news ..

[Marc Vaughan]

Hi,

Good and bad news on the EHM front today - the new patch is now available for download from sigames.com, however we have also announced that sadly this will be the last game in the series.

Details at:

http://community.sigames.com/eve/for...5/m/8602070492

Many thanks to everyone who supported the game.

Hope this helps,

Marc

[SirFozzie]

Had a feeling this would be it for the series..

Too bad.

[Marc Vaughan]

PS> For those of you who can't view the forums the gist of things is that the game was available on warez this year before we managed to release it - the torrent downloads have been very busy but sales haven't been high enough to keep the series going.

All of the EHM team are still going to be at SI and will be happily beavering away on other products here ...

[Marc Duffy]

Reposted in full here.

Well, there's good news, bad news, then some good news again. So....

The first bit of good news, is that we are happy to announce and make available the final patch for Eastside Hockey Manager 2007. This includes lots of little improvements and bug fixes, and you can find the patch http://www.sigames.com/news.php?type...rticle_id=1260. We hope that this will increase the longevity and enjoyability (ooh, new made up word) for the release of the game.

Now onto the bad news. As you know, the last Eastside release was via digital download. At the time, people complained about this as a distribution method, but it was the only one open to us - the first version of Eastside did very well in Scandinavia, pretty well in Europe and just about OK in the US & Canada. The second also did just about OK in the US and Canada, just about OK in Europe, but despite great review scores and decent pre-orders, the sales in Scandinavia, that had pretty much kept the game going, dropped heavily, from our analysis of the situation, mainly due to the game getting hacked before release, and pirated. Because of this, a retail release wasn't worthwhile with the pre-orders that we were going to get from retail, so we thought we'd go digi download, and encourage people to buy that way, whilst having a lower break even point due to retail not taking their cut.

So the game came out to glowing reviews, and decent online pre-orders, and we sat and waited to see the numbers going up and up. The forums were full of people constructively criticising, and praising (just the way we like it) and we were all pretty buoyant. We had more licenses than any other hockey game in history, it was the best Hockey management game in the history of gaming ever, and Riz and his team had done an amazing job. So, despite Hockey being a bit less popular post the hiatus of the sport in the US in 2004, we still couldn't fail, right?

Wrong. The orders came in a drizzle, rather than a flood. We scratched our heads trying to work out what had gone wrong. And then someone pointed out that the game was being pirated, and was available as a torrent from lots of different pirating sites. Then sat there and watched as the claimed amount of downloads on those sites went up and up, as sales stayed static.

Basically, the game did not bring in enough money to cover the development costs, let alone the license fees on top of that. So we've had to make the decision to stop development on the game for now - it doesn't mean that it'll never come back, but for the foreseeable future, there will not be another version of Eastside Hockey Manager.

The good news is that the amazing talented people on the Eastside team have all decided to stay with Sports Interactive. Riz, Ed & Phil are going to be working on Football Manager moving forward, and Graeme has joined our R&D department to work on developing a new idea forward, which we'll be announcing later in the year.

Thank you to all of you out there who supported the Eastside Hockey Manager project by buying the game, and especially those who helped with testing and research. And to those of you who pirated it, this is what happens when you steal. There are no excuses you can give that are valid for stealing - you have lead to the demise of a game that you enjoyed playing.

[miked]

So there's no way possible to keep it from getting hacked? How come we don't hear about this for OOTP, FOF, or other digital downloads? Seems kind of silly to end a great series because you can't figure out how to beat the hackers in this one instance...

I had a fun time with the demo, though I don't like the SI interface and how much "work" I have to do for basic things some times. It seemed like a good game and I was thinking about picking it up, but this leaves me scratching my head.

[wade moore]

I never played EHM because I'm not a hockey fan, but unfortunate to see any game in the text sim genre go away, let alone when it is because of Pirating.

This line on the forum is so true in this situation:

And to those of you who pirated it, this is what happens when you steal. There are no excuses you can give that are valid for stealing - you have lead to the demise of a game that you enjoyed playing.

[Pumpy Tudors]

I was just coming here to post about this.

Marc, you and your guys at SI did a great job on the two NHL EHM games. I know that there were bugs, but there was nothing else on the market like it. I'm very sad that there will be no further development on the game, but I understand.

Selfishly, I wish that we could change all of your minds about this. I was waiting for this patch before purchasing. I wish that I could just say, "Hey, I'm buying it tonight! Now you can keep working on EHM!" Of course, I know the reality of the situation. EHM is done.

I look forward to future versions of FM, and I'm sure that having a guy like Riz on the FM team is going to help the game in a big way.

Thanks for your work on EHM, guys, and thanks for bringing Riz onto your team.

[Ksyrup]

For all the complaining people do about Jim's method of protecting FOF, especially with regard to the demo, I'd rather see the criticism of Jim than an announcement like this.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by Pumpy Tudors

I was just coming here to post about this.

Marc, you and your guys at SI did a great job on the two NHL EHM games. I know that there were bugs, but there was nothing else on the market like it. I'm very sad that there will be no further development on the game, but I understand.

Selfishly, I wish that we could change all of your minds about this. I was waiting for this patch before purchasing. I wish that I could just say, "Hey, I'm buying it tonight! Now you can keep working on EHM!" Of course, I know the reality of the situation. EHM is done.

I look forward to future versions of FM, and I'm sure that having a guy like Riz on the FM team is going to help the game in a big way.

Thanks for your work on EHM, guys, and thanks for bringing Riz onto your team.

I agree with everything Pumpy said.

I loved these games. I played the hell out of them. It was really the perfect game for me.

Thanks for all the hardwork, time, effort, and money you put into making them. It was great appreciated by the folks who played it.

I'm glad to see all the EHM folks are staying on. They are a talented group and SI is lucky to have them.

Thanks for all the good times, fellas...

[Draft Dodger]

sorry to see EHM go. 2007 was my first introduction to the series, and I think there's a lot of promise there.

[JPhillips]

I wonder if this decision comes from Sega.

It really sucks. I try to support text sim developers even when I don't really have the money/time to do so. EHM has been great fun and I looked forward to it's continued development. This just goes to show that all of the graphics/2d engine/expanded interface stuff comes with the cost of extra salaries and resources. In the end we EHM fans couldn't spend enough money to keep the game going.

If I were Markus I'd be really worried about the future of OOTP.

[Pumpy Tudors]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

Had a feeling this would be it for the series..

Why?

[Fidatelo]

As someone who bought the first NHL:EHM but not the second, I think the "pirating killed the game" excuse is not entirely accurate (and no, I did not pirate any version of EHM).

When the recent version of the game came out, I almost immediately went to the link to buy it. But then I thought to myself "I hardly played the last one; why is that?". Then I re-installed the old VB6 freeware version and had a blast, and realised that most of what made the original fun was missing in the SI version, and the new one wasn't going to change that fact.

So I'd argue that the fact that NHL:EHM was never even close to as "fun" as the old freeware version had a major hand in killing the game as well.

[sachmo71]

This is really terrible news. I was looking forward to the progression of the series, and now I see that this is the end.

[Coder]

A few comments, and reasons why a game relying so heavily on the Scandinavian market is not good for the business-decision that was made regarding offering the game as "download-only".

1) Scandinavian countries still suffer from the "afraid of paying stuff online", which is weird how "net-savvy" most Scandinavians are. The majority of online-sales to Scandinavian citizens are through invoicing, not by credit card online.

2) Broadband connections are more of a standard than just "common" here and piracy has become more and more prominent. Kids don't seem to want to understand that there's a production-cost behind something.

I bought EHM the first time around, but didn't bother with the latest version for two reasons.

First was that the more it looked like FM, the more it felt like "FM without the bells and whistles".. Secondly, the pricing.. knowing that the US-price was almost €10 below the Euro-price simply turned me off.

EHM also didn't appeal to me and my personal "wish" of a hockey-game. I've grown to love the multiplayer aspects of sims. I've never played a SP-season "properly" in either OOTP nor FOF, but I have every version I've been able to purchase (download only!).

I'm not always looking for a strict NHL-replay, but I'd like the option to re-sim historical seasons, participate in multiplayer leagues, create "alternate" universes etc. None of which EHM offers me.. I never got the same "wohaa" feeling out of EHM that I got from FHL, which is VASTLY less complex, yet offers me more of what I want than EHM did. Please note I'm saying I here.. it's only my personal opinion as a hockeysimmer .

I say good luck to Riz, the idea was great!

[Deattribution]

I wonder if there really is a big enough market for a Hockey text sim to begin with and I also wonder whether or not despite talk of games being 'more like FM/CM' if people really want the same system and the same interface for a completely different game.

I understand piracy probably took away some of the sales but the majority of piracy is done by people who never intended on making a purchase in the first place.

[Coder]

Originally Posted by Deattribution

I wonder if there really is a big enough market for a Hockey text sim to begin with and I also wonder whether or not despite talk of games being 'more like FM/CM' if people really want the same system and the same interface for a completely different game.

I understand piracy probably took away some of the sales but the majority of piracy is done by people who never intended on making a purchase in the first place.

Bettman has killed the NHL, but I think there's still a huge market, especially in Canada (and judging by the FHL-forums, French Canada in particular), for a FLEXIBLE Text sim that would let you re-create the pre-Bettman NHL .

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Deattribution

... but the majority of piracy is done by people who never intended on making a purchase in the first place.

I usually think along those lines myself when it comes to software, but this announcement does make me wonder if that's equally true in all parts of the world. Maybe Coder (or any of our other Scandanavian/European posters) could comment on that a little, is the culture for software piracy significantly different from the US in that regard?

[SirFozzie]

Originally Posted by Pumpy Tudors

Why?

Lack of interest in the sport (like soccer, it's now a niche sport, tops in the US), online only option.

edit: Let me expand a bit further. When I saw the latest Here We Go Boyz thread peter out with three-four posters being the only ones really discussing the game at the end, and then realized that if FOFC is a barometer of interest in various sims (text especially)..

The crowd just wasn't there for it.

[Marc Duffy]

Originally Posted by Coder

Secondly, the pricing.. knowing that the US-price was almost €10 below the Euro-price simply turned me off.

$34.99 and €29.99, theres not that much difference in pricing for EHM 2007

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by Deattribution

I understand piracy probably took away some of the sales but the majority of piracy is done by people who never intended on making a purchase in the first place.

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

I usually think along those lines myself when it comes to software, but this announcement does make me wonder if that's equally true in all parts of the world. Maybe Coder (or any of our other Scandanavian/European posters) could comment on that a little, is the culture for software piracy significantly different from the US in that regard?

I used to think this way, back when I pirated (Like HS and early College). The more I grow and learn, the more I think this is mostly an excuse for pirates. Sure, there are some that have no intention of buying the game, but more and more I realize there are a large number that could buy the games, but don't bother when they can get them for free.

For instance, me in HS. Say I pirated 4 games in a month. Yeah, I probably couldn't buy 4 games, but I could buy 1. Instead I pirate 4 and then buy zero.

[scooter]

I'm really going to miss this game. It has, by FAR, been my most-played game series. I also played the freeware version, but I have never wanted to go back to that one after playing SI's versions (there have actually been 3).

Thanks to Riz, Graeme, Phil and everyone else that has worked on this game over the years. It is sad to see it go.

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by Fidatelo

I'd argue that the fact that NHL:EHM was never even close to as "fun" as the old freeware version had a major hand in killing the game as well.

""

I still play the freeware from time to time.

[Coder]

Originally Posted by Marc Duffy

$34.99 and €29.99, theres not that much difference in pricing for EHM 2007

I've had this gripe with both OOTP and EHM (the first version). I paid SEK 399 for the first EHM, about €39.99, while the dollar-price was considerably lower if you converted the price to both SEK and Euro. OOTP is also a "what-feels-like" unfair price-difference for us Euros.

[Marc Duffy]

Yes but we reviewed our pricing for EHM 2007 and it was €29.99

[Coder]

Originally Posted by wade moore

I used to think this way, back when I pirated (Like HS and early College). The more I grow and learn, the more I think this is mostly an excuse for pirates. Sure, there are some that have no intention of buying the game, but more and more I realize there are a large number that could buy the games, but don't bother when they can get them for free.

For instance, me in HS. Say I pirated 4 games in a month. Yeah, I probably couldn't buy 4 games, but I could buy 1. Instead I pirate 4 and then buy zero.

This is both for this post and for Jon's post.

I'm not sure what's going on but there's definately an increase in pirated games in Scandinavia. I have a few theories.

There's an increase in games being released, heck, an increase in "entertainment options".. basically, increasing the choices for gamers. To compensate for this, companies do not lower prices, instead they jack them up (see new console-generations etc).

The gamer is then faced with a situation where he/she wants two games, but can only afford one. Then combine this with the availability of broadband and the open pirating going on and you have a situation where at least one of the games can be downloaded for free... the gamer then thinks, well, if I can download one for free... why not the other?

Another factor is MMORPGs like World of Warcraft sucking up not only money, but also gametime. If a kid is playing WoW for 3 hours a night, why would his parents even consider allowing him to get another game?

I think one of the first things that needs to be done is to lower the pricing. If a game is distributed online only, the price should reflect that. There's no boxing-cost, no distribution costs, no profit-margin for the stores to be considered. Lower the price and see your sales-volume increase.

I buy quite a few DVDs.. I'm talking about 5-6 a month, sometimes more. I never, ever, buy fullprice DVDs, I'm always hogging the bargain-bins. I can get a year old DVD-release for a third of the price.. seriously, I can wait, I don't need to see a movie again 6 months after I saw it in the theatre.

Whew.. lots of points here, not sure how coherent.

[Deattribution]

Originally Posted by wade moore

I used to think this way, back when I pirated (Like HS and early College). The more I grow and learn, the more I think this is mostly an excuse for pirates. Sure, there are some that have no intention of buying the game, but more and more I realize there are a large number that could buy the games, but don't bother when they can get them for free.

For instance, me in HS. Say I pirated 4 games in a month. Yeah, I probably couldn't buy 4 games, but I could buy 1. Instead I pirate 4 and then buy zero.

To clarify, I was suggesting that I wouldn't denote poor sales directly on piracy, not that piracy wasn't a big deal because they weren't going to buy it anyway.

It's easier to save face by blaming it on piracy instead of just saying the game wasn't garnering enough interest to be profitable. I mean, if it was such a rampant problem I doubt that out of all the games that could be pirated to death EHM would be #1 on everyone's list.

[Fouts]

I bought the last 2 EHM releases, and enjoy them. Sorry to see it won't be moving forward.

I didn't buy the last WWSM version because I kept waiting for the digital download, then gave up on it.

Still looking forward to future products from SI.

[Marc Duffy]

I don't think it's got anything to do with saving face. From our point of view, what you read from our studio director is from the heart honesty and us calling the situation as best we can. There is no window dressing in his post.

[Coder]

Originally Posted by Marc Duffy

I don't think it's got anything to do with saving face. From our point of view, what you read from our studio director is from the heart honesty and us calling the situation as best we can. There is no window dressing in his post.

Saving face was a bit harsh, I agree, but he's got a point. I'd like to re-iterate what I said about EHM feeling like FM without the bells and whistles.

I don't think it's a good business decision to make all SI-games look so much alike for the simple reason that FM is so outstanding. The likeness in the games make a comparison with FM next to impossible and it makes all other games feel watered down.

[Marc Vaughan]

It's easier to save face by blaming it on piracy instead of just saying the game wasn't garnering enough interest to be profitable. I mean, if it was such a rampant problem I doubt that out of all the games that could be pirated to death EHM would be #1 on everyone's list.

The reason piracy was mentioned was simply because of the figures which we've obtained regarding downloads from illegal sources - EHM was heavily pirated .... and unfortunately it didn't have a large enough user base to remain profitable.

One of the reasons it was mentioned was simply that its sad that this is a contributing cause to the canning of the game and in the past most publishers/developers simply avoid the issue .... rather than do this I think its worthwhile indicating that peoples decisions do have an effect and hopefully it might make a small percentage of pirates think twice and actually purchase products (and thus keep them alive for people to enjoy in the future).

[JonInMiddleGA]

Although I really don't want to go too far down this particular sidetrack, strictly FWIW, I really don't see any undue "spin" being put on the situation. Actually, I thought the announcement was handled pretty darned well considering the unpleasant situation it has to be for all involved.

I know that my .02 really doesn't amount to a helluva lot in the grand scheme, but fair's fair -- if I'll rip on them when I think they screw something up, then I feel like I ought to give them credit when I think they get something right.

[Draft Dodger]

Originally Posted by Marc Duffy

I don't think it's got anything to do with saving face. From our point of view, what you read from our studio director is from the heart honesty and us calling the situation as best we can. There is no window dressing in his post.

which is why I am a fan of SI. for the most part, you guys don't mess around with feeding us a bunch of bullshit.

Deattribution makes a great point - one that I was trying to find the words for myself. Yes, piracy sucks. But I hope when SI goes to evaluate the franchise, they don't dismiss the failure simply on that one factor. There are a lot of things that could have been better - from the game itself to marketing. Piracy was just one element that has hurt the series.

[MizzouRah]

Well that sucks.

[Icy]

Sad news, I bought both versions but i'm also one of the guys who had more fun with the freeware version in the past. the best news are that the EHM developers, Riz and company, will keep working with SI, they are great guys and it would be really sad for them to lose their jobs.

About the piracy thing, I hope this will make more developers to go to the elicense route. Search in torrent sites, you can download ALL the games released in CD/DVD while you can't find even one of elicense games. The download and play approach is the future and slowly becoming also the present.

[Deattribution]

It probably wasn't the best way of putting it and I apologize for that, I certainly didn't mean to imply there was some sort of shady practice going on. Marc (both of them) have always been pretty straight-forward with everyone here.

I just hope in the next endeavor (OOTP potentially, or another sport) that the failure of this game isn't wrote off as 'niche sport, too many pirates'. So far the other games outside of FM have had more realism but lacked alot on the fun side IMO.

[Draft Dodger]

Originally Posted by Icy

About the piracy thing, I hope this will make more developers to go to the elicense route. Search in torrent sites, you can download ALL the games released in CD/DVD while you can't find even one of elicense games. The download and play approach is the future and slowly becoming also the present.

I'm confused - isn't EHM elicense?

[Icy]

Originally Posted by Draft Dodger

I'm confused - isn't EHM elicense?

The past version was on CD too and i guess that is the one that got leaked and pirated as FM is pirated every year too. You won't find OOTP2k6 pirated anywhere on the other hand.

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

Lack of interest in the sport (like soccer, it's now a niche sport, tops in the US), online only option.

edit: Let me expand a bit further. When I saw the latest Here We Go Boyz thread peter out with three-four posters being the only ones really discussing the game at the end, and then realized that if FOFC is a barometer of interest in various sims (text especially)..

The crowd just wasn't there for it.

I don't know if I represent an American view on this, or just my own warped view, but I have found that I cannot get into games which have virtually unlimited international leagues as a "feature" of the game - FM, EHM, the latest OOTP, etc. I haven't bought any of them, and it wasn't because I refused to give them a try. I just want a small, pre-defined universe of leagues to work with. The prospect of scouting and accounting for prospects and minor league or developmental teams in multiple countries or regions doesn't appeal to me in the slightest - even if doing so would make the game more realistic.

Add in the unfamiliar rules related to signing/retaining prospects or, in the case of soccer, just the idea of "transfers," and it's more of a chore to learn and master all of that than to play the game for fun. With a sport like baseball that I care about, I'm even on the fence about a game that would bring in the Latin America and Japanese prospects - or, I'd like to see them in the game, but in a manner where they are "spoon-fed" to me, not some limitless universe of players I have to individually account for by specifically scouting them and signing them. It's just too overwhelming for me and is too much of a burden relative to the main reason I want to play the game in the first place.

I'm not sure if that helps explain it or not, because this may solely be my issue. But I wouldn't be adverse to a hockey sim, just not in the way EHM is set up. And I spologize to "the Marc's" if I'm indirectly criticizing the way you develop your games, because I don't mean for it to come off that way.

[Capital]

I purchased the game via pre-order even though I did not play it all that much. I did find time for FOF2007, but I think the above post about MMORG is accurate.

I have bought a couple of other games, Oblivion amd NWN2 come to mind, but they are mostly on the shelf due to WoW (especially now with the expansion that changes the game). They suck the life out of the other games and are timesinks. I think this is a legitimate factor in computer gaming today.

I'm making a new stand that until I shelve WoW, the only games I will buy will be text based sports games. Games like FOF and DDS basketball allow a different universe that another fantasy game like NWN2 and Gothic 3. If I want fantasy, then I will play WoW or EQ2.

[sachmo71]

btw...i also appreciate the statement as to why the game is being shelved. i've always been a fan of more communication with the customer. with people like me, it builds goodwill.

[Markus Heinsohn]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

If I were Markus I'd be really worried about the future of OOTP.

I'm not

But this is too bad for Riz. EHM is a fantastic game... I wish it sold more, but hockey isn't a big market obviously

[SirFozzie]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

I don't know if I represent an American view on this, or just my own warped view, but I have found that I cannot get into games which have virtually unlimited international leagues as a "feature" of the game - FM, EHM, the latest OOTP, etc. I haven't bought any of them, and it wasn't because I refused to give them a try. I just want a small, pre-defined universe of leagues to work with. The prospect of scouting and accounting for prospects and minor league or developmental teams in multiple countries or regions doesn't appeal to me in the slightest - even if doing so would make the game more realistic.

Add in the unfamiliar rules related to signing/retaining prospects or, in the case of soccer, just the idea of "transfers," and it's more of a chore to learn and master all of that than to play the game for fun. With a sport like baseball that I care about, I'm even on the fence about a game that would bring in the Latin America and Japanese prospects - or, I'd like to see them in the game, but in a manner where they are "spoon-fed" to me, not some limitless universe of players I have to individually account for by specifically scouting them and signing them. It's just too overwhelming for me and is too much of a burden relative to the main reason I want to play the game in the first place.

I'm not sure if that helps explain it or not, because this may solely be my issue. But I wouldn't be adverse to a hockey sim, just not in the way EHM is set up. And I spologize to "the Marc's" if I'm indirectly criticizing the way you develop your games, because I don't mean for it to come off that way.

Although I don't subscribe to that (in fact, I love the "unlimited" options available in OOTP/FM), I can understand that. Maybe that can go in the thread of determining things yourself versus spoon feeding, how much is too much?

[MIJB#19]

Originally Posted by Coder

I'm not sure what's going on but there's definately an increase in pirated games in Scandinavia. I have a few theories.

There's an increase in games being released, heck, an increase in "entertainment options".. basically, increasing the choices for gamers. To compensate for this, companies do not lower prices, instead they jack them up (see new console-generations etc).

The gamer is then faced with a situation where he/she wants two games, but can only afford one. Then combine this with the availability of broadband and the open pirating going on and you have a situation where at least one of the games can be downloaded for free... the gamer then thinks, well, if I can download one for free... why not the other?

Nothing different from the Netherlands. It's considered 'normal' to get stuff for 'free'. Yes, even those who are software builders for a living do this. I do here stories from people who get the game 'for free' to use it as a demo and then buy the original when they like it. But I'm sure it's a tiny minority that does that. Nope, I can't be proud about my country about it.

[Icy]

Originally Posted by MIJB#19

Nothing different from the Netherlands. It's considered 'normal' to get stuff for 'free'. Yes, even those who are software builders for a living do this. I do here stories from people who get the game 'for free' to use it as a demo and then buy the original when they like it. But I'm sure it's a tiny minority that does that. Nope, I can't be proud about my country about it.

I'm even less proud of my country that you guys are, the piracy rate in Spain is a 46% while the average in Europe is a 36%.

USA is the country with the lower, a 21% while China is the worst country with a 86%.

(2006 Data from the BSA).

[Eaglesfan27]

Count me among those who enjoyed the freeware version more. I bought the first version from SI and just never got into it. I think when some of us dream about Solecismic merging with SI, we think about what we want and at least for me it is more media interaction, a 2D representation of the football game, etc. It is not to have football being played in as many countries as possible. I understand why SI goes that route since more countries equals more potential sales, but I think this provides some evidence that it might be important to work on other phases of the game before expanding into many countries as possible with the first joint version.

In any case, I agree with others that this announcement was handed well, and I'm looking forward to the next version of OOTP proving Markus is right..

[Cringer]

Well too bad. When I got the latest EHM it was my first experience playing it, and I enjoyed it. It was a blast taking my local Rio Grande Valley Killer Bees on a championship run, I had never done that with a game (controling a real-life local team). The game faded away for me mainly because of what was then my new job. I am sure I will get back into it though once my FOF2007 high wears off.

[Cringer]

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

I think when some of us dream about Solecismic merging with SI, we think about what we want and at least for me it is more media interaction, a 2D representation of the football game, etc. It is not to have football being played in as many countries as possible.

I do think it would be pretty cool to have NFL-Europe (aka, the Summer League) in the game, just to see how my guy is actually playing over there. Maybe even the Canadian league running in the background to scout.

But much more then that would be major overkill for me and would be avoided.

[Honolulu_Blue]

I never found the "as many countries as possible" angle of EHM to that distracting at all. I basically played the game as a NHL sim. Other than sending my scouts to Russia, Czech Republic, Sweden, Finland, and other "European" hockey hot beds and keeping track of my prospects in those respective countries, and International tournaments, I never really paid any attention at all to what was going on anywhere else in the world. I found it pretty easy to ignore and it didn't affect my enjoyment of the game at all.

Given the number of European-born players in the NHL, any self-respecting NHL sim would have to include European leagues or at least generate players from those leagues to build a draft.

There is a real-lieft dynamic between the NHL and foreign leagues. I think it's great that the game captured that. The fact that the foreign leagues were actually playable is just gravy for my European brothers and sisters.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by Cringer

I do think it would be pretty cool to have NFL-Europe (aka, the Summer League) in the game, just to see how my guy is actually playing over there. Maybe even the Canadian league running in the background to scout.

But much more then that would be major overkill for me and would be avoided.

Outside of NFL Europe or maybe the Canadian league, it wouldn't make sense for a NFL sim to have other leagues. For all intents and purposes, it's college ball and the NFL. That's it.

Not including European teams, or at least players from these teams, in a NHL game would be like not having players available from the PAC-10 and ACC or something.

Baseball is a bit of a grey area. I don't follow baseball all that closely, but I know there is interaction between MLB and Japan (for a small number of players) and there are many South American born players, but I don't know how those leagues and MLB interact.