Weird Feelings...or going with the gut...

[MacroGuru]

So, I don't know if you guys have heard about the mall shooting here in Utah that happened last night, where 5 were killed at random by an 18 year old gun man.

Anyways, that mall is the only one with a Pottery Barn and Pottery Barn kids in it. My wife was wanting to go there yesterday evening to pick up some stuff from Pottery Barn and Pottery Barn Kids. Then she got the strangest feeling to not go. I mean, we were to the point of getting ready to load the kids in the van. She just turned to me and said, you know , I don't think we should go, we can do this at another time.

Then wham, breaking news story on T.V. an hour or two later where this happened. And come to find out, a few of the killings took place in front of the very stores we were supposed to visit.

This is the second "bullet" so to speak that I have dodged in my life by not going to where the bad stuff happened, I am feeling a little protected or rather watched over right now....

[MacroGuru]

Dola...

Anyone else have this happen to them?

[st.cronin]

yes

[Bee]

Yep, my wife waits until everything is ready and then changes her freaking mind all the time too.

[st.cronin]

Something similar happened to me on 9/11 or else I might have died.

[Toddzilla]

Not to diminish your experience, but this happens quite often for all of us - getting ready to do something or go somewhere, only to change our minds at the last minute. Only when something extraordinary happens do we attach the event to our decision not to go. Well, there I go diminishing...

[MikeVic]

Crazy. You have a good guardian. I don't think I've ever had something like that happen to me.

[flere-imsaho]

I fly every week for work. I'm not normally afraid of flying, but there's the occasional day I get a really ominous feeling before taking the flight. Sometimes it scares me that one day that ominous feeling could be right.

[st.cronin]

I believe this has happened to me more than once, actually. I believe it is not uncommon. I suspect this is something science will be able to explain eventually.

[MikeVic]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

I believe this has happened to me more than once, actually. I believe it is not uncommon. I suspect this is something science will be able to explain eventually.

I believe so too. There has to be some sort of "luck" factor in our lives too. I mean, it can't just be coincidence, can it?

I've never had something like what was explained in this thread, but I have had past situations where I sometimes feel that I might have more luck than other people. Then other times stuff goes all shitty, but that feels more like fate or my doing. Anyone know what I'm talking about here?

[molson]

Originally Posted by Toddzilla

Not to diminish your experience, but this happens quite often for all of us - getting ready to do something or go somewhere, only to change our minds at the last minute. Only when something extraordinary happens do we attach the event to our decision not to go. Well, there I go diminishing...

I think this is it. It's also pretty easy when you come upon a fiery car-wreck to think, MY GOD, if there wasn't that line at the rest station bathroom, THAT'D BE ME!

It's totally natural, but we're all limited to understanding the the world only from our own narrow and self-centered perspective. Those of us have survived as long as we have have necessarily dodged a bullet or two along the way. That's not anything supernatural, that's luck of the draw. The dead people at the mall would love to being speculating about the presence of guardians - were there's out taking a piss or something?

[st.cronin]

There is no such thing as "luck". There are things for which we don't have the tools to speculate on the causes. Like a coin flip - if we could isolate all the factors, we could absolutely know which side the coin will land on.

[MikeVic]

Maybe not luck... but there has to be some factor that can one day be explained? Say me and you flip a coin, and I get heads 8/10 times, while you get heads 3/10 times. Then the next time we both get heads 5/10 times... I think that implies that during the first run, there was something that gave me the "luck" or whatever to get heads, and you to get tails.

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by MikeVic

Maybe not luck... but there has to be some factor that can one day be explained? Say me and you flip a coin, and I get heads 8/10 times, while you get heads 3/10 times. Then the next time we both get heads 5/10 times... I think that implies that during the first run, there was something that gave me the "luck" or whatever to get heads, and you to get tails.

Right, see my post where I said "someday science will be able to explain this." I am not saying I know what the explanation will be, or that I will be satisfied by it.

[panerd]

Originally Posted by Toddzilla

Not to diminish your experience, but this happens quite often for all of us - getting ready to do something or go somewhere, only to change our minds at the last minute. Only when something extraordinary happens do we attach the event to our decision not to go. Well, there I go diminishing...

Not only do I agree with this explanation completely, but I believe there is a name for this phenomenon. I remember studying it. We do ordinary things all of the time like going to get the mail or deciding to sleep in another 5 minutes. I don't ever say hey I just made a right turn and nothing happened or any of the millions of other things I do all of the time. But if my house blows up while I am getting the mail or there is a major car accident happens 5 or so minutes ahead of me than it is attributed to the supernatural and some sort of divine intervention. Also not trying to diminish your experiance or get into any sorts of arguments about faith but I do beleive this has been very throughly explained somewhere.

[BrianD]

So does this mean you are eventually going to die in some amazingly horrific manner in Final Destination 37?

[MikeVic]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

Right, see my post where I said "someday science will be able to explain this." I am not saying I know what the explanation will be, or that I will be satisfied by it.

Oh ok. I was just trying to get more discussion on the subject.

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by MikeVic

Oh ok. I was just trying to get more discussion on the subject.

I thought you were trying to make fun of me.

Essentially, you can boil this down to a recognition that we are not in control of our world. There are things that happen that we don't understand. That feeling can be frightening or awe-inspiring.

[Kodos]

I had an experience like this back in the 80s. I was at Kmart, and had a Betamax machine in my cart, when something told me to put it back. I left the store safely, and 2 weeks later picked up a nice VHS machine.

[Fighter of Foo]

Originally Posted by panerd

Not only do I agree with this explanation completely, but I believe there is a name for this phenomenon. I remember studying it. We do ordinary things all of the time like going to get the mail or deciding to sleep in another 5 minutes. I don't ever say hey I just made a right turn and nothing happened or any of the millions of other things I do all of the time. But if my house blows up while I am getting the mail or there is a major car accident happens 5 or so minutes ahead of me than it is attributed to the supernatural and some sort of divine intervention. Also not trying to diminish your experiance or get into any sorts of arguments about faith but I do beleive this has been very throughly explained somewhere.

There's something similar that takes place with animals that's been documented right before an earthquake. The "strange" behavior is just a heightened sense of awareness triggered unconsciously. http://www.levity.com/mavericks/quake.htm

I seriously believe your wife's actions were similar to those described in the article above, only human, if that makes sense. And she probably can't explain it either.

I don't doubt it for a second though.

[CU Tiger]

"Blessed is the man who trusts in the heart of a virtuous woman, he shall have no lack of gain"

I have come to accept this. Women really do have a 6th sense sometimes.

We were in New York on 9/11. We had planned our vacation down to the minute. We were scheduled to come home on the 12th. The morning of 9/11 we were going to visit the WTC. While waiting on the cab, my wife said, she really thought it was a bad idea. but couldnt explain why, my son (10months old at the time) who was normally a very peaceful baby had been crying all morning. As soon as we decided to make other plans he immediately was soothed. So we went to try and find the neighborhood her grandmother had grown up in.

Now we may or may not have been inside the towers or even nearby at the exact moments, but I am glad I can specualte now. It was really weird and surreal at the time.

I never doubt her feelings. They have been wrong before (I've rescheduled 2 flights for no reason) but right one other time (when she kept me off a flight at Charlotte Douglas that crashed) in my mind she has probably saved my life twice...don't think I am going to get divorced anytime soon.

[Toddzilla]

Originally Posted by Fighter of Foo

There's something similar that takes place with animals that's been documented right before an earthquake. The "strange" behavior is just a heightened sense of awareness triggered unconsciously. http://www.levity.com/mavericks/quake.htm

I seriously believe your wife's actions were similar to those described in the article above, only human, if that makes sense. And she probably can't explain it either.

I don't doubt it for a second though.

Can't be the same thing. For certain, be it pre-quake tremors or small "before-shocks" that occur before an earthquake hits, there would be something environmental to oick up on, no matter how slight. The samecan be said for approaching storms or tornados.

How or what there would to "sense" in the event of a mall shooting, or a plane crash, etc. makes no rational sense.

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by MacroGuru

Dola...

Anyone else have this happen to them?

Maximus, but only if it involves John Travolta. And nothing happens.

[molson]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

There is no such thing as "luck". There are things for which we don't have the tools to speculate on the causes. Like a coin flip - if we could isolate all the factors, we could absolutely know which side the coin will land on.

True, but even though the result of a coin flip "happens for a reason", that doesn't make a leap everything "happens for a divine reason". I think "luck" exists, at least when it's defined as outcome that isn't related to one's own or someone else's personal influence.

[Fighter of Foo]

Originally Posted by Toddzilla

How or what there would to "sense" in the event of a mall shooting, or a plane crash, etc. makes no rational sense.

Nope.

[molson]

Originally Posted by CU Tiger

We were in New York on 9/11. We had planned our vacation down to the minute. We were scheduled to come home on the 12th. The morning of 9/11 we were going to visit the WTC. While waiting on the cab, my wife said, she really thought it was a bad idea. but couldnt explain why, my son (10months old at the time) who was normally a very peaceful baby had been crying all morning. As soon as we decided to make other plans he immediately was soothed. So we went to try and find the neighborhood her grandmother had grown up in.

But again, of all the people that did got to WTC that day, odds are SOMEONE would have decided not to go for no apparent reason. (Just like when a plane crashes, there's usually SOMEONE that missed the flight) That's the self-centered nature of this - since it's happening to THEM, they assume it must be something beyond luck. (But it had to be someone). (And the WTC observation deck hadn't opened yet at the time of the first crash, and then they were immediately closed - I'm sure there are dozens if not hundred of people that can claim "I could have been there").

I feel like the party pooper in this thread, but I guess I'm just turned off by the idea that someone can feel like they're somehow divinely protected at the expense of everyone else who had to die instead.

[MikeVic]

Originally Posted by Toddzilla

How or what there would to "sense" in the event of a mall shooting, or a plane crash, etc. makes no rational sense.

Maybe certain events happen no matter what, and some people can pick up "something" that clues them into these events? I don't agree with this, as I think nothing is guaranteed to happen in this world, but it is a possibility?

[MikeVic]

Originally Posted by molson

but I guess I'm just turned off by the idea that someone can feel like they're somehow divinely protected at the expense of everyone else who had to die instead.

It doesn't necessarily mean that the people that died were less protected or deserved it over the people that felt some sort of divine intervention. Maybe there's some really complex formula to determine this, and luck is some small part of it... I don't know what I'm saying anymore. :o

[CU Tiger]

Originally Posted by molson

I feel like the party pooper in this thread, but I guess I'm just turned off by the idea that someone can feel like they're somehow divinely protected at the expense of everyone else who had to die instead.

Im not meaning to imply that I felt my life was somehow spared while thousands of others weren' good enough. Merely it is odd that over a 10 day vacation, which everyday was planned and to that point not one deviation from the plan (my wife is a meticulous planner, the woman gets in the shower at 23 after every morning because it takes 7 minutes ) she says I have a bad feeling we need to not head that way.

Dude its weird. Another such episode, though very different. My son was born with an infection in his lungs (combination of wife being a beta strep carrier and a myconian birth) that went unnoticed by all the medical personnel. The day they were supposed to go home from the hospital, she told the nurse, he is not well I really think you need to check him out further. The nurse/doctor ordered a blood scan which unveiled the strep infection. Our OB/GYN had never conducted a strep test prior as he thought it was "inefficient" we later learned that that could have proven fatal if he was dismissed and sent home as planned.

Again, not that he is some how destined for greatness and was spared, I just fully believe my wife has some intuition or insight that I cant put my finger on. But Imnot about to bet the mortgage on a roulette number of her choosing either.

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by molson

But again, of all the people that did got to WTC that day, odds are SOMEONE would have decided not to go for no apparent reason. (Just like when a plane crashes, there's usually SOMEONE that missed the flight) That's the self-centered nature of this - since it's happening to THEM, they assume it must be something beyond luck. (But it had to be someone). (And the WTC observation deck hadn't opened yet at the time of the first crash, and then they were immediately closed - I'm sure there are dozens if not hundred of people that can claim "I could have been there").

I feel like the party pooper in this thread, but I guess I'm just turned off by the idea that someone can feel like they're somehow divinely protected at the expense of everyone else who had to die instead.

I tend to agree with the first paragraph, because this happens all the time. It's the reason why psychics and horoscopes, etc., are so popular - people tend to pick up on non-specific things that they see as relating specifically to them and ascribe a certain quality to that information (or the communicator) that may not be deserved. I don't necessarily agree with the conclusion you reach, but I think it's natural to question whether this is just part of a larger phenomenon we all experience in a variety of ways.

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by molson

I feel like the party pooper in this thread, but I guess I'm just turned off by the idea that someone can feel like they're somehow divinely protected at the expense of everyone else who had to die instead.

It's not a scale, where one good thing must be outweighed by one bad thing. What we're talking about, to me, are things that happen that reinforce my sense of gratitude at the gifts I have been given, including the gift of life.

[Fighter of Foo]

Originally Posted by MikeVic

Maybe certain events happen no matter what, and some people can pick up "something" that clues them into these events? I don't agree with this, as I think nothing is guaranteed to happen in this world, but it is a possibility?

I don't think anyone can predict specifics. That points to the roulette wheel example Tiger mentioned. There's a very big leap between sensing somthing amiss, and acting on it, and knowing what that something is.

Some people are naturally adept and sensing the types of things mentioned in this thread. Even fewer trust that intuition enough to act on it. That doesn't necessarily equate to any sort of divine intervenion, though it could; instead, IMHO, our subconscious, non-active part of the brain usually gets things right, even when we can't explain why or how.

Make of that what you will.

[Vince]

Wasn't there a study done at some point that showed that planes that crash have a higher percentage of empty seats than planes in general? The study was done in an effort to illustrate clairvoyance or precognition or something. I have no idea if this is true or not, but I seem to remember reading it at some point.

[kcchief19]

Originally Posted by MikeVic

Maybe not luck... but there has to be some factor that can one day be explained? Say me and you flip a coin, and I get heads 8/10 times, while you get heads 3/10 times. Then the next time we both get heads 5/10 times... I think that implies that during the first run, there was something that gave me the "luck" or whatever to get heads, and you to get tails.

See, I would take this as an example that supports Toddzilla's point. A flip of the coin is a 50/50 proposition. Variances in the 50/50 ratio isn't necessarily luck, simply a factor of statistical deviation.

Combining your example with Todd's point, let's say you flip a coin 100 times. Giving credence to a single action that avoids catastrophe while disregarding similar actions that result in nothing is askin to placing significance on the 38th flip while ignoring all the other flips. Each flip is equal and each outcome is significant. You have to take all the occassions into consideration.

I'm sure I change my mind 10 times a day ranging on dull topics from when to go to lunch, what route to take home or what to eat. The real significance would be to identify all the times that you change your mind.

That said, I can't totally dismiss the concept of clairvoyance. But I've never seen anyone demonstrate any proven or consistent ability, which to me suggests that most incidents of clairvoyance are merely luck. I'm not certain it's something that can be proven.

[Buccaneer]

We only remember when something out of the ordinary happens not realizing that we make minute decisions (as well as changes) all of the time. Once in a while, the two coincides.

Like when you are sitting at a red light and there's no one else coming the other way. All of when a car approaches, it starts to turn to red. You say to yourself, "yep, that happens ALL OF THE TIME" (to go SkyDog Hyperbolic). Except that you don't remember that 90+% of the time it didn't happen because you thoughts and memory storage was doing something else.

[KWhit]

Originally Posted by molson

But again, of all the people that did got to WTC that day, odds are SOMEONE would have decided not to go for no apparent reason. (Just like when a plane crashes, there's usually SOMEONE that missed the flight) That's the self-centered nature of this - since it's happening to THEM, they assume it must be something beyond luck. (But it had to be someone). (And the WTC observation deck hadn't opened yet at the time of the first crash, and then they were immediately closed - I'm sure there are dozens if not hundred of people that can claim "I could have been there").

I feel like the party pooper in this thread, but I guess I'm just turned off by the idea that someone can feel like they're somehow divinely protected at the expense of everyone else who had to die instead.

I agree with you. And it goes both ways.

I'm sure that on 9/11 there were tons of people that just had a spur of the moment urge to go down to the WTC and cruise the shops, or buy some theatre tickets, or try to go to the observation deck. They hadn't planned anything out, but they decided on a whim to go down there.

Were they pre-destined to die that day?

Or guys that were supposed to work from home that day, but forgot a file and had to go into the office anyway.

Or a maintenance man who had to fill in for someone else that called in sick.

It goes both ways.

[cartman]

The closest thing I've ever had to that was when I was back in college. I was in the car with my dad. I got a strange feeling, and turned to him and told him that I think my mom had just wrecked my car. We kind of laughed it off, since my mom had never been in a wreck, and never even had gotten a ticket. Well, when we got home, there was a message on the answering machine to come pick her up, because she had rear-ended someone while driving my car and the car was undriveable.

[AlexB]

Originally Posted by BrianD

So does this mean you are eventually going to die in some amazingly horrific manner in Final Destination 37?

Putting aside the irony of a film called Final Destination 37, if I had to watch more than about three of them you wouldn't need a 5,6,7 for me to top myself, let alone 37...

To echo Lionel Hutz, it would be clearest case of false advertising since The Neverending Story

[John Travolta]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

Maximus, but only if it involves John Travolta. And nothing happens.

Honestly, I've only increased my piloting since Maximus made his prediction.

[MacroGuru]

Great read guys, I apologize for not being on and responding yesterday, when I wasn't WoW I was out doing leg work for my business.

Anyways, my 2nd bullet was 9/11, but it wasn't that I had a bad feeling or not, the UAL 175 was a flight I took a lot for work, I was supposed to be on that plane, but I was laid off 2 months before, but had the e-ticket already purchased and had my weeks scheduled out in advance. I have the e-ticket printed out and in a saftey deposit box, but I will say this much when I found out what flight it was, I cried, and it took me a bit to compose myself.

[Axxon]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

Right, see my post where I said "someday science will be able to explain this." I am not saying I know what the explanation will be, or that I will be satisfied by it.

And I say that "someday +1, religions will quickly denounce said explanation and call scientists godless heathens yet again. "

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by Axxon

And I say that "someday +1, religions will quickly denounce said explanation and call scientists godless heathens yet again. "

You don't mean religions, you mean men.

[ThunderingHERD]

Karl Jung & modern day pseudoscientists would call it synchronicity. A short list drawn from the following phrases might come to mind for more rational thinkers: representativeness heuristic, comfirmation bias, law of large numbers, apophenia, post hoc ergo proctor hoc, availability heuristic, selective thinking, etc.

[Axxon]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

You don't mean religions, you mean men.

Well, you don't see many athiests calling folks godless heathens and meaning it.

[Butter]

Originally Posted by Jari Rantanen's Shorts

Putting aside the irony of a film called Final Destination 37, if I had to watch more than about three of them you wouldn't need a 5,6,7 for me to top myself, let alone 37...

To echo Lionel Hutz, it would be clearest case of false advertising since The Neverending Story

I laughed.