Little Girls are Sluts these days

[Samdari]

Most of you here are really underestimating how important it is for teens to appear 'cool'. Part of that is wearing the 'right' clothing. Teen pregnancy and sexual activity is down from 10 years ago. I would venture a guess that most of the girls wearing low riding pants and thongs and microskirts do so not because they are 'sluts' but because of the paralyzing fear that they will get laughed at for wearing clothes that look like their mothers'.

Don't get me wrong - I hate it, and despite my attempts to see teens naked on the internet, when I see it in person it disgusts me. But, I think the assumption that all girls who dress like that are sluts is a bit overreaching.

And for those of you bashing the parents, go try to buy clothing for girls that age/size that is not low cut. It is extremely difficult to find - everyone has their racks filled with the slutty looking stuff.

Its kind of funny, when I was in high school, the 'slutty' girls were the ones who wore tight designer jeans. After numerous dates, I found out this was not true in most cases.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally posted by Samdari
Most of you here are really underestimating how important it is for teens to appear 'cool'. Part of that is wearing the 'right' clothing. Teen pregnancy and sexual activity is down from 10 years ago. I would venture a guess that most of the girls wearing low riding pants and thongs and microskirts do so not because they are 'sluts' but because of the paralyzing fear that they will get laughed at for wearing clothes that look like their mothers'.

Well, I'm well aware of that importance in their mind. However, at least where I am, there are plenty of "cool" and popular teenage girls who don't wear the low riding pants, thongs and microskirts. They don't *have* to dress that over-the-top to be cool.

I'm also fairly certain that there are plenty of girls who do dress that way who aren't easy, and probably some that are virgins. However, the guys I know perceive that *all* of them who dress that way are easy.

[Cards4ever]

Originally posted by CamEdwards

I'll continue to repeat what I've been saying all along. If you have no problem with your daughter intentionally showing off her ass crack, chest, or crotch, that's your right as a parent. I really don't understand your hostility towards people who might believe differently. Based on your arguments, however, you seem to be saying it's a bad thing to teach your child to resist peer pressure, because that can make them social outcasts.

In my opinion, parenting has very little to do with helping your kids become popular.

My "hostility" is towards the thinking of someone being a slut, just by the clothes they wear. That veers dangerously towards the thinking of a girl deserving to be raped, cause, hey, look at what she was wearing.

I'm also not talking about making your kid popular, I'm talking about helping your kid fit in. Because my kid always seems to be taking gymnastics, swimming or dance at the local HS, I don't see the extreme that is being talked about in the first post. I also haven't seen it at the many HS hockey games I attend in the winter. Low rise jeans are just the trend of the moment, I hardly think that makes the girls look like sluts, but to each their own I guess.

I'm trying to just let this topic go, I would suggest that those of you who haven't seen the movie, "The Accused" watch it and put yourself in her shoes or think of your wife/gf/sister in that spot and what you would do.

[sterlingice]

Originally posted by SkyDog
I don't know about anyone else, but when I think of QuikSand, the first thing that comes to mind is panty-less teenage girls...

Is it because the logical opposite of "panty-less teenage girls" is "lecherous old men"?

SI

[cuervo72]

Originally posted by sterlingice
Is it because the logical opposite of "panty-less teenage girls" is "lecherous old men"?

SI

I thought KickStand was a computer - how can a computer be lecherous?

[Anrhydeddu]

Cards, you are out of line. You bring up pedophiles and for each one, I will counter with thousands of selfless folks who have given their time, their resources and for some, their lives to make a difference in people's lives throughout the world. I will also counter with responsible parents and friends who can intelligently encourage positive values and behaviors instead of promoting self-centered and degrading values and behaviors.

QS: In all cases? I don't know but I do personally know of anecdotal evidence that there is a connection. It's about a destructive cycle of sin. If a teen's self-esteem (which is fragile enough already) starts in a downward cycle where he/she doesn't care about his/her body, what is put in it or how it is abused, then it could reach a point of not caring about life. It takes effort by those that care to turn that around and make a positive difference. That is why I keep emphasizing that. It is too easy to succumb to destructive behaviors, esp. from value-less peers and parents that either do nothing or even encourages that. It takes strength and courage to be different, not to do or go along with others, but the results will be more positive and fulfilling.

[Cards4ever]

Can we all sing Cumbaya now? That is before we go into the house behind the white picket fence and mom is there in her apron and I can smell the apple pie she made that day! I'm still blaming Elvis and those swiveling hips!

[CamEdwards]

Originally posted by Cards4ever
Can we all sing Cumbaya now? That is before we go into the house behind the white picket fence and mom is there in her apron and I can smell the apple pie she made that day! I'm still blaming Elvis and those swiveling hips!

This is what passes for intelligent debate when you're wrong.

[bigjdotcom01]

This a pretty interesting thread. In fact, I had almost the exact same convesation at a picnic on Sunday.

[QuikSand]

In response to my semi-rhetorical question...

Does this study demonstrate that youngsters are depressed because they are having sex? Do we know that the cause-effect relationship, if any, works in that direction?

Anrhydeddu responded thusly:

Originally posted by Anrhydeddu
QS: In all cases? I don't know but I do personally know of anecdotal evidence that there is a connection. It's about a destructive cycle of sin. If a teen's self-esteem (which is fragile enough already) starts in a downward cycle where he/she doesn't care about his/her body, what is put in it or how it is abused, then it could reach a point of not caring about life. It takes effort by those that care to turn that around and make a positive difference. That is why I keep emphasizing that. It is too easy to succumb to destructive behaviors, esp. from value-less peers and parents that either do nothing or even encourages that. It takes strength and courage to be different, not to do or go along with others, but the results will be more positive and fulfilling.

I don't find any fault with the assertion that there may well be a link between depression and sexual activity - but I'm not so sure that there's evidence that it's predominantly the sexual activity that leads to the depression. It may well be that the cause-and-effect relationship is happening in the other direction (the inference I hoped would be received from my original question).

When you say, as part of your argument, "If a teen's self-esteem starts in a downward cycle where he/she doesn't care about his/her body" - it seems to me that you are committing the logical fallacy of assuming your conclusion. You assume that the downward cycle begins with a lack of care about one's body and/or sex as part of defending that very position.

I think it might well be that in many cases, the downward cycle of self-esteem might start in completely other places-- the parental relationship, peer pressures, substance abuse, or any of the range of topics being discussed throughout this thread. Then, after the person is lacking in self-esteem, she may reach out to sex as an attempt to remedy these life problems. A young person, specifically a young girl, who decides to become sexually active under these circumstances might find a sense of "value" in that-- boys start to appreciate her, pay more attention to her-- and she might be likely to confuse that level of "attention" with the more desirable level of "appreciation" or "respect" or (most likely) 'love" that she might really seek. It's a very common malady, and premature sexual activity can certanly be a symptom, rather than a cause.

(I'd also note that much of the same can be said about dressing provocatively - it, too, generates a level of "attention" that might be confused for more genuine and benevolent emotions. I agree that there is a slipperly slope argument here.)

I'm not suggesting that I'm a fan of young girls making bad life decisions in this way. I'm just suggesting that when we see a "link" between two things, it's tempting to define the relationshuip the way that supports our beliefs. Often, it's not necessarily so, and I thnk this is such a case.

[Cards4ever]

Originally posted by CamEdwards
This is what passes for intelligent debate when you're wrong.

Well of course, cause we all know that you guys are always right.

[Ben E Lou]

Quik:

In my experience working with teenagers, you're spot-on. Sexual activity (and other reckless teenage behavior) is nearly always the result of something deeper going on. In most cases, an experienced youth worker can tell which kids are going to be partiers/drinkers/sexually active/etc. before they begin such acting out. (I'd imagine that this is also true for elementary and middle school teachers as well.)

[Anrhydeddu]

I guess I was not clear. There is a connection to any destructive behaviors (more than just teen sex but drug abuse, crime, etc.) and suicide. The behaviors are symptoms to the real problem but one would not readily engage in such behaviors if there was not a root, as Ben mentioned. I was only speaking from reverse engineering, which for some, is all we have to go on and what the study implies. I don't think I said that teen sex is the cause of suicide (nor do I think the study said that either), but it is evidence of something that could lead to suicide - much like a symptom is an indicator of a disease.

[cuervo72]

Originally posted by QuikSand

(I'd also note that much of the same can be said about dressing provocatively - it, too, generates a level of "attention" that might be confused for more genuine and benevolent emotions. I agree that there is a slipperly slope argument here.)

Good post as usual, QS. The above section reminded me of a girl who was in my computer math class junior year (she was a senior, and was also my "Gym Night" partner). She usually dressed fairly standard, but one day she came in with tight, black pseudo-leather pants and a black leather jacket (not a lot of skin). The teacher (who had always reminded me of Sally Jesse-Rafael - boy, this teacher was a real trip) took this as a desperate plea for help and immediately sought to counsel her (she overreacted just a bit).

I never did figure out what the deal was with the outfit though. I had a mild crush on this girl as it was (cute/adorable/hot all rolled together), but for me, the outfit was jaw-dropping. She may have had confidence issues, I don't know. But it sure was curious.

[Anrhydeddu]

cuervo, think Grease.

[cuervo72]

Um, I have never actually seen Grease . But it was that kind of outfit, now that you mention it.

Oh, for "Gym Night" (which was the HS extension of "Field Day") we were the "cheerleaders" (all grades could be partners on the cheerleading team), and were outfitted like genies. Talk about another fantasy

Ok, everyone can resume arguing again!

[Anrhydeddu]

Ok, everyone can resume arguing again!

Nah, sometimes I get too philosophical.

Back when I was in HS , there was something called Slave Day (iirc) where girls (usually the popular ones like the cheerleaders) were put on an auction block (they volunteered) and anyone could bid on them and be a slave for the day. Me, being a nerd, just watched this from afar but I do recall some of the girls coming off crying because they didn't get won by a popular jock. There just seems to be many things that a teen went through, at least the more sociable ones (which wasn't me), but I can't imagine nowadays with its increased pressures, exposures (no pun intended) and interest in starting early.

[cuervo72]

Slave day...that's funny. I could imagine some of the girls being upset. I wonder what their thoughts were after the slave day...probably none of them changed much.

My problem was that I should have been popular, or was in some regards, but was too insecure to feel like I fit in. I think my shyness often was mistaken for aloofness. Oh, and the very few times I took any interest in a girl, it was the "secret admirer" route, which made me look like a complete idiot, damaging my confidence further.

Looking back, I should have had many more opportunities to date. The above example being one. Well, actually two. The girl who initially asked me to be her gym night partner might have had some interest in me, after all she did ask me to do that. For a while she mentioned not having a date for the senior prom (she was a year older than me), but I didn't know exactly how to ask/offer to go to her prom with her. This was also complicated (in my mind) by the fact that another of the "genies", one of her friends, asked me to the junior prom (I went with her). That didn't go anywhere either; we had a good time at the prom, but I didn't quite know what to do at the end - she drove me home in her van, and I basically just said, "ok, well, see you tomorrow" through the window. The next day we and a few of her friends went to Great Adventure (Six Flags), but the girls' behavior was strange, so the guys just hung out. I didn't really talk to her much after that.

I was pretty inept in HS.

[korme]

Originally posted by SkyDog
Quik:

In my experience working with teenagers, you're spot-on. Sexual activity (and other reckless teenage behavior)

Sexual behavior is reckless behavior?

[McSweeny]

Originally posted by Shorty3281
Sexual behavior is reckless behavior?

if not practiced safely it can be

[korme]

ok, then that makes sense

[cuervo72]

Originally posted by McSweeny
if not practiced safely it can be

As a reminder:
http://dynamic2.gamespy.com/~fof/for...&threadid=9060

[Anrhydeddu]

Originally posted by McSweeny
if not practiced safely it can be

Assuming you would completely ignore the emotional consequences.

Shane, this is an alternative view to the popular "safe sex" culture
http://www.abstinence.net/

[CamEdwards]

Shorty,

Jacking off into your mom's underpants could be considered very reckless, especially if she catches you.

[sabotai]

"Jacking off into your mom's underpants could be considered very reckless, especially if she catches you. "

Somethign tells me Cam knows this by first-hand experience....but I seriously don't want to know about it.

[CamEdwards]

first hand experience with Shorty's mom's underpants...

I was making reference to another thread, actually.

[ISiddiqui]

Let me join the crowd .

Females that dress 'provacatively' know what they are doing. They aren't doing it to be 'cool', they are doing it to catch the eye of a guy. I would say that they probably know what the guys are thinking when they see her in her obviously provacative clothing (they want to screw her). You have to be naive if you don't think that guys look at these women and don't think 'slut'. Maybe it is wrong, but that's the way it is. And those women will attract a certain kind of guy, who doesn't respect her for her mind, but simply treats her as a plaything.

The 'normal' guy, who is into having a relationship and treating a woman with respect isn't going to think about going after a woman dressed provacatively. Usually in his mind, he is also thinking she is a slut, and thus doesn't have anything to offer mentally to a relationship.

Maybe it ain't fair, but that's the way it is.

It's kinda similar to African-Americans who dress like gangsta's. They might be very nice people, but they are looked at in a different way. It may not be fair, but that is the way it is... and I think those that dress and look that way know the stereotype.

edit: That isn't to say they deserve rape at all! What I am saying is that women dressing in these ways usually attract a type of man who isn't interested in them for much other than sex.

[Jersey_Girl]

Um ok thais is a guys web site but who cares...ok not all girls are like that....only the really preppy girls are...I hate the preppy girls...and trust since I'm a 15 year old girl I have rights to say what I want...and plus it's the parents fault for letting them dress like that and buy other stuff like that...it's mostly Hollister and Aeropostal who sell stuff like that because I buy from American Eagle only and I wear jeans no matter how hot it is...and moms who let their daughters wear thongs at the age of like 13 are crazy I mean I stated at 14 but at least I didn't show mine.....and plus guys just think about them selfs not the girls feelings and just want to get laid which is what most guys talk about....and people who smoke are not kool cause I know a couple of 14 year olds who smoke and I don't hang around them

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by Jersey_Girl

Um ok thais is a guys web site but who cares...ok not all girls are like that....only the really preppy girls are...I hate the preppy girls...and trust since I'm a 15 year old girl I have rights to say what I want...and plus it's the parents fault for letting them dress like that and buy other stuff like that...it's mostly Hollister and Aeropostal who sell stuff like that because I buy from American Eagle only and I wear jeans no matter how hot it is...and moms who let their daughters wear thongs at the age of like 13 are crazy I mean I stated at 14 but at least I didn't show mine.....and plus guys just think about them selfs not the girls feelings and just want to get laid which is what most guys talk about....and people who smoke are not kool cause I know a couple of 14 year olds who smoke and I don't hang around them

qft, or something

[MrBigglesworth]

I wonder what term she put into google in order to find this three and a half year old thread?

[dj_morton]

Originally Posted by MrBigglesworth

I wonder what term she put into google in order to find this three and a half year old thread?

Haha

[CU Tiger]

Did anyone else just read that and immediately go back to the Pauly Shore valley girl impression....

Twirling hair around a finger and blowing a bubble...Like D'uh Okay?