BREAKING NEWS: Limbo Doesn't Exist

[JPhillips]

Catholic Church buries limbo after centuries
Fri Apr 20, 2007 12:14 PM EDT147

By Philip Pullella

VATICAN CITY (Reuters) - The Roman Catholic Church has effectively buried the concept of limbo, the place where centuries of tradition and teaching held that babies who die without baptism went.

In a long-awaited document, the Church's International Theological Commission said limbo reflected an "unduly restrictive view of salvation," according to the U.S.-based Catholic News Service, which obtained a copy on Friday.

The thumbs-down verdict on limbo had been expected for years and the document, called "The Hope of Salvation for Infants Who Die Without Being Baptised," was seen as most likely to be final since limbo was never formally part of Church doctrine.

Pope Benedict authorized the publication of the document.

According to the CNS report, the 41-page document says the theologians advising the Pope concluded that since God is merciful he "wants all human beings to be saved."

It says grace has priority over sin, and the exclusion of innocent babies from heaven does not seem to reflect Christ's special love for children, CNS, which is owned by the U.S. Catholic Bishops Conference, quoted the document as saying.

Limbo, which comes from the Latin word meaning "border" or "edge," was considered by medieval theologians to be a state or place reserved for the unbaptised dead, including good people who lived before the coming of Christ.

"Our conclusion is that the many factors that we have considered ... give serious theological and liturgical grounds for hope that unbaptised infants who die will be saved and enjoy the beatific vision (of God)," the document said, according to CNS which is part of the U.S. Catholic Bishops Conference.

The Church teaches that baptism removes original sin which stained all souls since the fall from grace in the Garden of Eden.

The commission has been working on the document for some time and members have said in the past that it would recommend that the concept of limbo be scrapped.

In writings before his election as Pope in 2005, the then Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger made it clear he believed the concept of limbo should be abandoned because it was "only a theological hypothesis" and "never a defined truth of faith."

The Catholic Church's official catechism, issued in 1992 after decades of work, dropped the mention of limbo.

In his Divine Comedy, Dante placed virtuous pagans and great classical philosophers, including Plato and Socrates, in limbo.

[Draft Dodger]

how about the mambo? does papa still love that?

[SackAttack]

Limbo is an overly restrictive view of salvation, but purgatory is still okay?

Despite this newly found contention that the grace of God has ascendancy over sin? Or maybe that's just for the kiddies.

I'm not being ENTIRELY serious here...but yeah, at least a little bit serious.

[molson]

So does this work retroactively, or is church just admitting it was wrong? Doesn't the latter make the whole "faith" deal more complicated?

[King of New York]

At least we still have "pin the tail on the donkey."

[NoMyths]

A good PR move, but a poor theologic decision, especially based on the reasons given in the article. I'd be interested to know how baptism can still be considered a sacrament since it seems to now be unnecessary.

That said, ""Our conclusion is that the many factors that we have considered ... give serious theological and liturgical grounds for hope that unbaptised infants who die will be saved and enjoy the beatific vision (of God)," doesn't actually state that infant souls don't go to limbo -- it says there are grounds for hope that they don't. A very different matter.

My own sense is that Catholicism can't have it both ways -- either there is original sin and a path to salvation, or there isn't.

[MrBug708]

About time...

[Coder]

Puh.. for a while there I thought they'd remove the Limbo dance

[DanGarion]

Think of the children!

[Joker]

Originally Posted by Draft Dodger

how about the mambo? does papa still love that?

hahahahaha....LOVE IT!

[Pumpy Tudors]

hell yea i am posting in a thread with JOKER in it

[MikeVic]

hell yea i am posting in a thread with Pumpy Tudors in it

[Fonzie]

I'd much prefer that they get rid of hell, personally.

[sabotai]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

Christ's special love for children

I'm not too sure people should be using this phrase when refering to anything that deals with the Catholic church...

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by Coder

Puh.. for a while there I thought they'd remove the Limbo dance

Dude...they buried it. No way in hell anyone's getting under that stick!

[Drake]

Originally Posted by NoMyths

A good PR move, but a poor theologic decision, especially based on the reasons given in the article. I'd be interested to know how baptism can still be considered a sacrament since it seems to now be unnecessary.

That said, ""Our conclusion is that the many factors that we have considered ... give serious theological and liturgical grounds for hope that unbaptised infants who die will be saved and enjoy the beatific vision (of God)," doesn't actually state that infant souls don't go to limbo -- it says there are grounds for hope that they don't. A very different matter.

My own sense is that Catholicism can't have it both ways -- either there is original sin and a path to salvation, or there isn't.

I'm not Catholic and I don't believe in Limbo in the first place, so take this for what it's worth.

Without actually bothering to read the 41 page dissertation, I'm pretty confident that they're not invalidating baptism as a sacrament here. What they're likely saying is that unbaptised infants and those who died before the incarnation of Christ constitute "special cases" and are consequently accorded a special dispensation of mercy from God -- infants especially since they're not afforded the opportunity to reach an age where they can make a conscious decision for salvation. In that circumstance, God extends mercy despite original sin because of His love for us.

But I'd also agree with your analysis in your second paragraph (again, without having read the original document).

[Telle]

Originally Posted by Drake

I'm not Catholic and I don't believe in Limbo in the first place, so take this for what it's worth.

Without actually bothering to read the 41 page dissertation, I'm pretty confident that they're not invalidating baptism as a sacrament here. What they're likely saying is that unbaptised infants and those who died before the incarnation of Christ constitute "special cases" and are consequently accorded a special dispensation of mercy from God -- infants especially since they're not afforded the opportunity to reach an age where they can make a conscious decision for salvation. In that circumstance, God extends mercy despite original sin because of His love for us.

But I'd also agree with your analysis in your second paragraph (again, without having read the original document).

Catholics do infant baptism.. which is supposed to wash away original sin that the baby is born with. Confession later takes care of sings when the child has reached the age of reason. So basically they're saying that not only is original sin not damnable, it basically has zero affect. So then what's the point of baptizing and infant?

[DanGarion]

Originally Posted by Telle

Catholics do infant baptism.. which is supposed to wash away original sin that the baby is born with. Confession later takes care of sings when the child has reached the age of reason. So basically they're saying that not only is original sin not damnable, it basically has zero affect. So then what's the point of baptizing and infant?

So eventually sin in general shouldn't be damnable, if this trend continues.

[Bea-Arthurs Hip]

We cannot expect intelligent reporting of this in the secular press. Expect headlines to speak of the 'Pope' or 'the Vatican' 'abolishing Limbo'.
What we actually seem to have is a rather measured document which does not declare the automatic salvation of the unbaptized and does not totally dismiss limbo as being an unsupportable theological position. The report suggests that it does not obscure the genuine difficulty of the question and insists on the necessity and obligation of baptism.

The 30-member International Theological Commission acts as an advisory panel to the Vatican, in particular to the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith. Its documents are not considered expressions of authoritative church teaching, but they sometimes set the stage for official Vatican pronouncements.


St Thomas Aquinas taught what most uninformed Catholics believe to be the Churchs official teaching on this subject. While Catholics are free to believe in Limbo or not , the influence St Thomas had and still has is what we see and read from in secular reports. Limbo has never been a "Dogma" of the faith.

[Pyser]

i love being jewish.

[KWhit]

Originally Posted by molson

So does this work retroactively, or is church just admitting it was wrong? Doesn't the latter make the whole "faith" deal more complicated?

Don't even try to be logical. This is religion.

[Crim]

Catholics crack me up. I'm forwarding this to a couple of friends, one of which is a deacon's son. I used to tell his dad that since I don't adhere to Catholicism, I plan on using my friendship with his son as a hedge, so if they turn out to be right after all, the deacon can pull some strings for me and get me into the good place.

[SirFozzie]

*shakes head* Foz you idiot, that has to be the worst parody thread in the history of ever.

(going for the half-Schmidty here)

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by Telle

So basically they're saying that not only is original sin not damnable, it basically has zero affect. So then what's the point of baptizing and infant?

The Vatican is in bed with the Dasani people.

[Karlifornia]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

The Vatican is in bed with the Dasani people.

Better the Dasani people than little boys.

Zing!

[Ksyrup]

Ever since I found out that the Vatican looked into investing in a viatical settlement scheme, I've kinda lost a bit of respect for the institution - pedophilia notwithstanding.

[Noop]

Welcome 2 Hollywood

[Fidatelo]

So here's a question: I was never baptised because it didn't fit in with my parent's cottage schedule during the summer months, and my wife has stated that when we have kids I'll have to get baptised so that I won't be abandoning the family in the afterlife. Does this mean I'm ok? Or does it only work for babies that die having not yet been baptised?

[14ers]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

The Church teaches that baptism removes original sin which stained all souls since the fall from grace in the Garden of Eden.

I hate to ask this question in a sports forum, but.....

I thought Jesus Christ died on the cross to remove original sin?



BTW: I am Catholic and I do believe that this is what I was told in Sunday School. That Jesus Christ died on the cross to remove our sins, but that lecture was many, many years ago.