Are we out of line here?

[Suburban Rhythm]

This is my situation.

We had a privacy fence put up in our backyard about 9 months after we moved into our house. Pretty large backyard, about 120 feet deep X 50 feet wide, 6 foot high wooden fence. As you can guess, it was not cheap.

Part of our reasoning was we (wife and I) are pretty private people. We want to be able to be in OUR yard and not deal with neighbors etc. Also, the fence was finished shortly before our first child was born (She's now 3, son nearly 1). We wanted them to be able to run and play while being safe (dead end street runs behind the house).

On our left is a single woman in her 40's we are friendly, but not overly so. On the right is a family with 3 kids--two boys, guessing about 12 and 9, and daughter about 7. The most conversation I've ever had with them is a hello. Which, for me, is absolutely fine. I don't need to be friends with my neighbors...just, well, neighborly.

Here is the problem-- in the last two weeks, two boards have been completely removed from the fence on this family's side, as well as several more which are cracked. We are going to approach the parents with an estimate for repair. The lady on the opposite side thinks we are being a little harsh, although admits she's had problems with the kids "bothering" her dog in the past.

Are we out of line in thinking of going to them with an estimate? I guess technically we have no true proof the kids did anything. However, the rest of the length of the fence, there is a single board that has come loose which I re-nailed.

[DaddyTorgo]

hmm. Tough one. I'd say it really depends on whether you want to have any type of relationship with them.

in an ideal world they would recognize what happened and offer to pay for the damages. But since you don't really have a friendly relationship I'm not sure how to get that to come about. Not like you can just invite them over for a cookout and talk about how much you love your fence and how well it holds up while staring at the busted-parts with them...

[Desnudo]

flaming bag of dog poop

[Suburban Rhythm]

DT-- my feelings are if we don't have a "relationship" with them after 3+ years living here, it's not going to happen. And as stated before, I am OK with that.

It's not like either family goes out of their way to piss off the other. We've got locked gates on the fence, so typically when I head out to cut grass, I find of bunch of baseballs etc, that I gladly toss back over the fence. I was a kid once I understand that sort of stuff happens. I don't understand "Sorry, mister...we were just standing by the fence and these 2 pieces fell off."

I do agree with you...we sort of hoped the parents would come forward with some sort of apology or something. The first board showed up missing about 2 weeks ago...the 2nd last weekend, which we then were out of town for 3 days. The cracked boards have been happening for about a year, since last summer, about 5-6 of them total. I was able to look past last year when 1-2 got dinged...again, I was a kid, I get that accidents happen. 1-2 is an accident, 5-6 is a pattern.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Absent any proof their kids are responsible, I'd say you're wasting your time.

It's your time to waste of course, so I'm not saying don't give it a try but I would strongly recommend going into it with very low expectations.

[Eaglesfan27]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Absent any proof their kids are responsible, I'd say you're wasting your time.

It's your time to waste of course, so I'm not saying don't give it a try but I would strongly recommend going into it with very low expectations.

Ditto. We've already had a board or two get damaged on the side where the neighbors aren't our friends. I have no proof their kids did it and they haven't volunteered that information, so I've just let it slide. Shrug.

[sabotai]

If you really want them to pay for it, I'd suggest talking to them first and telling them to tell their kids that your fence is not a batting cage. I wouldn't just show up with an estimate. I'd probably be pretty annoyed if a neighbor of mine just dropped a bill on my lap without talking to me about it first.

It's not like either family goes out of their way to piss off the other.

If you just show up with an estimate, that might be what ends up happening.

[Glengoyne]

Originally Posted by sabotai

If you really want them to pay for it, I'd suggest talking to them first and telling them to tell their kids that your fence is not a batting cage. I wouldn't just show up with an estimate. I'd probably be pretty annoyed if a neighbor of mine just dropped a bill on my lap without talking to me about it first.



If you just show up with an estimate, that might be what ends up happening.

This is what I'm thinking as well.


More specifically I'd say.

Talk to them. Let them know that there might be an issue, and what the deal is. I might even go further, and let them know that you are paying for the repairs, but you want them to know why you think their kids might not be treating your fence with the proper respect and that you are having to deal with the financial consequences. They might even discuss it with their kids and pony up to fix the fence. Ok, that isn't likely.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Glengoyne

This is what I'm thinking as well.


More specifically I'd say.

Talk to them. Let them know that there might be an issue, and what the deal is. I might even go further, and let them know that you are paying for the repairs, but you want them to know why you think their kids might not be treating your fence with the proper respect and that you are having to deal with the financial consequences. They might even discuss it with their kids and pony up to fix the fence. Ok, that isn't likely.

that's sort of what I think would be the best-case scenario I think.

[Logan]

I thought this was going to be about SkyDog locking the "Greatest TV drama" thread .

I'll side with the "don't just drop an estimate, but bring up the issue first." A friendly "Hey, our fence has been broken a few times...can you speak to your kids and ask them to be more careful when they're playing?" should suffice.

[Barkeep49]

Originally Posted by Logan

I thought this was going to be about SkyDog locking the "Greatest TV drama" thread .

I kinda thought the same thing.

And I will join the chorus which suggests you talk to your neighbors first. Showing up with a bill isn't just unfriendly, it's also not neighborly.

[nilodor]

Originally Posted by Glengoyne

This is what I'm thinking as well.


More specifically I'd say.

Talk to them. Let them know that there might be an issue, and what the deal is. I might even go further, and let them know that you are paying for the repairs, but you want them to know why you think their kids might not be treating your fence with the proper respect and that you are having to deal with the financial consequences. They might even discuss it with their kids and pony up to fix the fence. Ok, that isn't likely.

This is about what I think as well. If you don't really have a repore with them, don't really have any proof, although circumstance would say your hunch is probably right, I think you need to give them a heads up and say this is what I think is going on, I'm not asking anything of you guys, I just want you to know and keep an eye out. If it keeps happening then you can go back with the estimate the next time. Just because you don't really know them that well and you haven't broached the subject with them before I don't think it's wise to ask for money first time by.

[Suburban Rhythm]

Probably didn't present it well the first time around.

Not planning on showing up the first time with the estimate in hand. But do plan on mentioning we are in the process of getting an estimate. Hoping at that point, as most of you had noted, best-case scenario they say "OK, please let us know when you get numbers."

Also, while we have no definitive proof...as an example of what leads us to believe it's them.

We are in a two-story, they are in a ranch. Since there are windows on both sides of their house, the two boys have taken to taking fielding practice by throwing baseballs/tennis balls on our house (lower level nearest them is the garage, no windows). I've lost count the number of times my wife or I have gone out to ask them to stop...but they hear the front door open and take off. So, obviously they know they shouldn't be doing it, but don't really care...until caught anyway.

So, we are surmising the fence is much of the same...just haven't caught anyone yet.

[Suburban Rhythm]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

I kinda thought the same thing.

And I will join the chorus which suggests you talk to your neighbors first. Showing up with a bill isn't just unfriendly, it's also not neighborly.

DOLA-- I agree with you 100%. But part of me also thinks that watching your kids destroy your neighbors property...or at the very least take fielding practice of the side of their house (see above), is also not neighborly.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Suburban Rhythm

Probably didn't present it well the first time around.

Not planning on showing up the first time with the estimate in hand. But do plan on mentioning we are in the process of getting an estimate. Hoping at that point, as most of you had noted, best-case scenario they say "OK, please let us know when you get numbers."

Also, while we have no definitive proof...as an example of what leads us to believe it's them.

We are in a two-story, they are in a ranch. Since there are windows on both sides of their house, the two boys have taken to taking fielding practice by throwing baseballs/tennis balls on our house (lower level nearest them is the garage, no windows). I've lost count the number of times my wife or I have gone out to ask them to stop...but they hear the front door open and take off. So, obviously they know they shouldn't be doing it, but don't really care...until caught anyway.

So, we are surmising the fence is much of the same...just haven't caught anyone yet.

that's not acceptable. In that instance...I'd be a crotchety ole bastard and call the motherfucking cops. Have a friendly neighborhood cop show up to throw a scare into the kids. fuck them. And fuck the parents for not teaching their kids better

[Suburban Rhythm]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

that's not acceptable. In that instance...I'd be a crotchety ole bastard and call the motherfucking cops. Have a friendly neighborhood cop show up to throw a scare into the kids. fuck them. And fuck the parents for not teaching their kids better

And I feel like I am actually trying to avoid being a crotchety old bastard. I've never once yelled at the kids.

[flashback]I remember growing up, we had the old guy next to the neighbor kids down the street from us...who would stand in his doorway waiting for us to chase a ball into his yard just to scream "STAY OFF MY LAWN!"[/flashback].

But it's become pretty obvious to us they see nothing wrong with it, because they aren't being told otherwise. Had the first time they used the house the parents told them to quit it, and the first time they used the fence they were told the same, this thread would probably not be written. I'd have accepted a board or 2 got cracked, replace them, and move on.

We are trying to do it as civilly (sp??) as possible, because we realize everyone still needs to live here.

[CU Tiger]

yeah Id have a conversation with the neighbors about all this.
Maybe [looking for the beest in people] they are real busy and just dont pay enough attention to their kids.
maybe their kids have freinds who come over and damage stuff.

I'd at least give the neighbors a chance to fix the situation. I am sure the kidss aren't runninghome "Mommy the guy caught us throwing a ball against his house again"

[sabotai]

Yeah, I would definitely tell the neighbors what their kids are doing. There's no part what they are doing that is even remotely acceptable.

[cougarfreak]

Do the kids have a rabbit in a cage in their backyard you could go all Glenn Close on???? That'd put a stop to both the fence bashing and the ball bouncing I'd bet.

[SteveMax58]

If you know that the parents' bedroom is on the same side of the house as your fence...you could go over there(irregardless of where your broken pickets are) and just start hammering in nails at around 6 or 7 am on a Saturday. Better yet...maybe it works better to be on the kids' side.

If they happen to approach you about it being too f'n early for this shit...you can tell them you wanted to make sure the fence is ready for batting practice for THEIR kids today.

Seriously though...you're probably right about the parents. They are most likely oblivious to, or do not care about anything their kids are doing so long as it doesnt inconvenience them.

[gstelmack]

Originally Posted by sabotai

Yeah, I would definitely tell the neighbors what their kids are doing. There's no part what they are doing that is even remotely acceptable.

Yup. You have to start this by talking to the parents and being reasonable. When they are bouncing balls off the side of your house, don't go out the front door to tell them to stop, call the parents so the kids don't know it's coming.

Then see how the parents react. If they decide to work with you to correct the kids, great. If they don't, move, as you're just going to get in a war with these neighbors that won't go anywhere but downhill. Everyone is offering "fun" suggestions, but it will just start escalating as they do similar things back. You don't want to be messing with this if you've got kids around.

[Suburban Rhythm]

Originally Posted by gstelmack

Yup. You have to start this by talking to the parents and being reasonable. When they are bouncing balls off the side of your house, don't go out the front door to tell them to stop, call the parents so the kids don't know it's coming.

Then see how the parents react. If they decide to work with you to correct the kids, great. If they don't, move, as you're just going to get in a war with these neighbors that won't go anywhere but downhill. Everyone is offering "fun" suggestions, but it will just start escalating as they do similar things back. You don't want to be messing with this if you've got kids around.

I get what you are saying...but me having to move my family because I've got assholes for neighbors might be extreme.

Which is why I am trying to go about this as civilly as possible. If they decline to accept their kids did this, I fix the fence. At least then they are on notice, and maybe if it starts costing them to fix our fence or whatever else could be next (car?) getting beaned with a baseball, they'll move. Or at the very least start to watch their kids.

As far as bouncing balls off the side of the house, I imagine I go to the parents, the kids deny it, and the parents look at me and say "sorry, must have been someone else. my kid says it wasn't him."

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Suburban Rhythm

At least then they are on notice, and maybe if it starts costing them to fix our fence or whatever else could be next (car?) getting beaned with a baseball, they'll move.

Good luck with that underlined part. Assholes hardly ever go away.

If they don't step up immediately and the problems persist, your next step is to get the police out to investigate a criminal damage to property (or vandalism) complaint. While it's unlikely that you could actually get a DA to proceed, it does give you a leg up on the civil suit you'll end up having to file to recover anything (unless you've got a very good small claims court system).

[Desnudo]

Originally Posted by Suburban Rhythm

I get what you are saying...but me having to move my family because I've got assholes for neighbors might be extreme.

Which is why I am trying to go about this as civilly as possible. If they decline to accept their kids did this, I fix the fence. At least then they are on notice, and maybe if it starts costing them to fix our fence or whatever else could be next (car?) getting beaned with a baseball, they'll move. Or at the very least start to watch their kids.

As far as bouncing balls off the side of the house, I imagine I go to the parents, the kids deny it, and the parents look at me and say "sorry, must have been someone else. my kid says it wasn't him."

Just have the conversation. What have you got to lose? If they turn out to be knuckleheads, then so be it.

[Vinatieri for Prez]

We're talking about 5 or 6 wood boards here? What does that cost - less than $20? Just replace them and don't waste your time with the talk. Or if you do, don't bother asking them to chip in. That will get you some goodwill and get the message. If more get broken, then I would bring it up. This way you look like a reasonable guy. Trust me, you more than in your right to ask for the money, but also believe me that while it's ok not to have a relationship with a neigbhor, it's just downright sucks to have a lousy relationship with the neighbor, which can occur even if you're in the right. If it was hundred or thousands of dollars, then I would bring it up, but for $20?

[Karlifornia]

I understand that nude sunbathing is important to you, and you don't want the neighborhood Tom & Huck peeping your soon to be tanned twig and berries. If you just told the neighbors "Listen, unless you get my fence fixed, your whole family is going to be subjected to the daily sight of me getting Vitamin K on my Vitamin D and Vitamin B's.....see you at sunrise"

[Cringer]

I tend to stake out my own house in these kind of situations. Of course I have also physically gone after people these stake outs.

The best is throwing golf balls at the golfers (public golf course behind my house) if they piss me off.

[Celeval]

Borrow a mean dog. Let him sit in the yard for a few days; they'll never expect it.

[Synovia]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Absent any proof their kids are responsible, I'd say you're wasting your time.

It's your time to waste of course, so I'm not saying don't give it a try but I would strongly recommend going into it with very low expectations.

Theres baseballs in the yard. Thats proof enough.


We started losing fence tines about the same time lacrosse balls started showing up in the yard. Go over and tell the parents that their kids are breaking the fence tines. Dont expect any money or anything, but you may be able to get them to play baseball in a different direction.

[Anthony]

this is what i'd do. i would pay out of my own pocket and fix the fence. i would take the bill and talk to the neighbors and say "this is what i had to pay to fix this fence that your kids have damaged. i understand they're kids, we all were once too. i did a lot of things as a kid, but i didn't ever ruin someone else's property. if you can have a talk with them and remind them to respect things that don't belong to them i would appreciate it". that's all. maybe add in "i'm sure you'll understand if it happens again i'll have to get you to pay for the repairs. this time it's on me."

not saying anything is a form of communicating that you don't have a problem with it. that's not the case here. my main philosophy in life is "people can do whatever the hell they want - just as long as i don't have to pay for it". once i have to put my hand in my wallet the rules change.

[Mustang]

If you think the baseballs are damaging the boards, why are you tossing them back? I'd be keeping them. If they come over, just say 'oops, I hit it with the lawnmower'. Actually, run one over a few times and then take it over to them. Say you don't like to ruin their kid's baseballs so, maybe they could play a different way... make it seem like you are trying to do them a favor.

Plus, If their parents are buying them replacement balls, sooner or later they are going to bitch at them to play somewhere else and stop losing their baseballs over your fence.

Other than that, the only thing you can do is setup a webcam to record your fence everyday and submit police reports for vandalism and try to catch the kids in the act.

[Glengoyne]

Originally Posted by Cringer

I tend to stake out my own house in these kind of situations. Of course I have also physically gone after people these stake outs.

The best is throwing golf balls at the golfers (public golf course behind my house) if they piss me off.

I want to revoke my previous advice about being diplomatic, and suggest you take this route.

See if Cringer can help you out with some stake out helpful hints, and then start a Dynasty about it.

[johnnyshaka]

I'd definitely go over and talk to the parents. I wouldn't say anything about the cost to repair the fence...I would just pay for it out of my own pocket...but make sure they know that you had to do it because of what their kids are doing. Then mention that you'd rather not have to replace the siding on your house because of what their kids are doing as that is going to be much more expensive.

If I'm understanding the lay of the land correctly...they essentially share your fence so there is no way that other neighbourhood kids could damage your fence without being in your yard or your neighbour's yard...right? If so, I don't understand how they could deny that their kids wouldn't be responsible for the damage?

Neighbour relations are difficult at the best of times but nipping stuff in the bud is definitely the way to go because the sooner these kids learn some respect the better everybody will be.

[MikeVic]

Maybe your 3-year-old broke the fence?


Kidding.

[Suburban Rhythm]

Originally Posted by johnnyshaka

I'd definitely go over and talk to the parents. I wouldn't say anything about the cost to repair the fence...I would just pay for it out of my own pocket...but make sure they know that you had to do it because of what their kids are doing. Then mention that you'd rather not have to replace the siding on your house because of what their kids are doing as that is going to be much more expensive.

If I'm understanding the lay of the land correctly...they essentially share your fence so there is no way that other neighbourhood kids could damage your fence without being in your yard or your neighbour's yard...right? If so, I don't understand how they could deny that their kids wouldn't be responsible for the damage?

Neighbour relations are difficult at the best of times but nipping stuff in the bud is definitely the way to go because the sooner these kids learn some respect the better everybody will be.

That is correct. Could it have been someone else? I suppose...but that someone else would need to be hanging out in the neighbors yard to do it.

And like I stated earlier, one time...OK maybe it's an accident, and possibly not them. 5-6 times? Now it's becoming a habit.

And I think you hit the nail on the head in your last statement. Just bother me that it's taking us to bring this to the parents attention for the kids to be told it's wrong.

Originally Posted by MikeVic

Maybe your 3-year-old broke the fence?


Kidding.

My 3 year old, no. Now, if my son (10 months) was walking, I might believe it...he is part child, part animal.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by Hell Atlantic

this is what i'd do. i would pay out of my own pocket and fix the fence. i would take the bill and talk to the neighbors and say "this is what i had to pay to fix this fence that your kids have damaged. i understand they're kids, we all were once too. i did a lot of things as a kid, but i didn't ever ruin someone else's property. if you can have a talk with them and remind them to respect things that don't belong to them i would appreciate it". that's all. maybe add in "i'm sure you'll understand if it happens again i'll have to get you to pay for the repairs. this time it's on me."

not saying anything is a form of communicating that you don't have a problem with it. that's not the case here. my main philosophy in life is "people can do whatever the hell they want - just as long as i don't have to pay for it". once i have to put my hand in my wallet the rules change.

That's like 2 for 2 on good advice this week.

SI

[Lathum]

If you do repair it yourself I would take before and after pictures so when more damage shows up you have a reference.