Ethical Question/Sexual Harassment?

[oliegirl]

I was just discussing something with a girl I with. Our former manager, who is no longer with the company, found her profile on AdultFriendFinder.com. Although she doesn't have any "naked" pictures up, she does have a face pic, as well as some pictures of her in a bra, so there is no actual nudity. She had a number of issues with the manager while he was here, and immediately prior to his leaving the company, he was gone for a month - we suspect he was in some sort of rehab facility or mental health facility. Anyway...to make a very long story somewhat shorter, he told me before he left the company that he had found her profile and that if he wanted to "get back at her" he could print it out and post it around the office. He also told one other person we work with around that same time, and since he left, has called/emailed the "office gossip whore" and told her, and she is of course telling everyone else. My question is this: would this be considered sexual harassment or slander? She has emailed the EEOC and is thinking about filing a claim, but isn't sure if she'd file it against the company since he worked here when this started, or if she would file it against the person. My point to her was that these things usually blow over and in a week or two, people will have forgotten or let it go, but if she takes this step, it will keep it as a "live" story and it will go on and on. She is worried that this could affect any future promotions she is up for, and just basically will take away from her credibility at the office and affect how she is viewed by her co-workers. I told her I'd post here and get some outsider/objective opinions.

Thoughts?

[gstelmack]

Wait. She put a public profile up in a public place and is upset that it got out to the public? Or am I missing something here?

[Logan]

I predict good things for this thread.

[st.cronin]

Is she hot? If so, pcs pls k thx.

[MikeVic]

If she didn't want her credibility shot, she shouldn't be posting pictures of herself in a bra on a public site! Unless this site requires membership or something.

[MikeVic]

Originally Posted by oliegirl

I was just discussing something with a girl I with.

What would oliegirl and this friend of her's be doing...

Thoughts?

[MikeVic]

To clarify my initial thoughts... I think it has to be some form of slander, but if she willingly posted the bra pics on a public site, I don't think you can make much of it.

[gstelmack]

Originally Posted by MikeVic

If she didn't want her credibility shot, she shouldn't be posting pictures of herself in a bra on a public site! Unless this site requires membership or something.

Even then, nothing stops other co-workers from having created similar accounts and seen this. You post a pic like this, how can you be mad when it gets out?

[stevew]

Is she into w4w or more into the group thing?

[oliegirl]

The site is "public", but in order to view pictures/communicate you need a paid membership. She isn't upset that he found it, she is upset that he is telling people she works with about it and giving details of her personal life/activities, especially now that he doesn't work here anymore. And she is upset that he is doing it to be spiteful b/c they had a falling out right before he left.

[MikeVic]

Ah a paid site too. I think it's unethical on his behalf... if he had similar pictures, would he like them getting out? If you're paying to be on this site, I think it's really bad form to use information on the site to hurt other members.

[gstelmack]

Sure, she can be mad at the spiteful way he's done it, but she gave out the details herself. She can't be mad they are out there.

[cartman]

It all goes back to the intent. It doesn't matter if she posed for Playboy, if the pigs have nothing to do with the job she is doing, then it could be considered harrassment for the manager to distribute them to "get back" at her.

[MikeVic]

Originally Posted by cartman

It all goes back to the intent. It doesn't matter if she posed for Playboy, if the pigs have nothing to do with the job she is doing, then it could be considered harrassment for the manager to distribute them to "get back" at her.

Yeah I agree with this.

[miked]

Guess what...if you don't want people to find out stuff like that, don't do it. Why join something and post pictures of yourself you don't want certain people to see, when anyone with an internet connection can see them? Sounds like by filing claims and such, she's being spiteful as well.

[gkb]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

Is she hot? If so, pcs pls k thx.

I'd like to take this a step further and ask for a link to her profile...k thx.

[oliegirl]

She doesn't hide the fact that she is single and dates and uses websites for her social life. When I asked her about it she was very open and honest, but we are friends. It's more of the fact that he is bringing her personal life to the office and using it against her maliciously than the fact that people know she is on the site and has pictures. She showed them to me, she isn't embarassed about that as much as she is angry at how it's being spread and why.

[cartman]

uh, that should be 'pics', not 'pigs' in my post. The auto-corrector got it before I noticed the change.

[Kevin]

How could it possibly be the company that has done something wrong? Also, it isn't slander to cite what she has posted on that website. Just like it wouldn't be slander or harrassment to tell that former person's mother, spouse and colleagues that he is a paying member of that site. She could also make a practice of cropdusting the gossiper's office. That is the appropriate method of getting back.

[st.cronin]

In the future, everybody will have 15 minutes of privacy.

[Swaggs]

It sounds like the manager is incredibly petty and the girl has made some bad decisions. I'm not sure how slander could apply in this situation, since the girl put the information/photos in a "public" location herself. The harrassment part is sort of contingent on her damages and his intent, I would think.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Please tell me she's a school teacher and she's nailing a 15 year old kid.

[SnDvls]

she could have a harrassment claim against the person in the office too.

[wade moore]

I have multiple opinions - none of which are legally based.

1. The guy is a jerk.
2. The woman needs to accept responsibility. If you are willing to post something like this, you need to accept that it may get to your office/co-workers.
3. The office workers shouldn't be passing it around.

It seems like from a legal standpoint she'd have a hard time proving something like slander, since there's no lies being spread - which I think is a requirement for slander. Sexual Harrassment seems a bit iffy to me because he's doing this while not employed - but admittedly I don't know how this works except from a business perspective. The coworkers I would think she would potentially have more of a case than the guy that doesn't work there anymore.

But in the end to me on a common sense level it is ridiculous for this woman to get upset over this. It was her poor judgement to put this photos/etc up if it's something she was embarrassed about or thought would negatively effect her in the work place.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by oliegirl

The site is "public", but in order to view pictures/communicate you need a paid membership. She isn't upset that he found it, she is upset that he is telling people she works with about it and giving details of her personal life/activities, especially now that he doesn't work here anymore. And she is upset that he is doing it to be spiteful b/c they had a falling out right before he left.

I think as long as the former manager doesn't distribute the pics, she may not have a claim. If I got the story right, all the former manager is doing is telling people who work at the office about what she has on her profile. I'm not sure that's enough to sue for sexual harrasment... especially since the manager doesn't work there anymore and she put all that stuff out there.

[Draft Dodger]

I had no idea adultfriendfinder was a legit service.

[Logan]

Agree with pretty much everything wade has said. I'm slightly embarrassed to admit that I have no idea if sexual harassment even applies outside of the workplace since that's the only context you ever hear about. If he doesn't work there anymore, I think the claim would be against the middle manager guy who is facilitating the passing of this info between the guy no longer working there and the current co-workers who will gobble it up.

[Subby]

Originally Posted by oliegirl

Thoughts?

I think you should gossip about this on an internet message board, duh...

[oliegirl]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

I think as long as the former manager doesn't distribute the pics, she may not have a claim. If I got the story right, all the former manager is doing is telling people who work at the office about what she has on her profile. I'm not sure that's enough to sue for sexual harrasment... especially since the manager doesn't work there anymore and she put all that stuff out there.

He has either shown people the pictures, or described them in a lot of detail, and actually made them sound worse then they are. People are saying that she has topless/naked photos where she isn't wearing anything, and that is not true.

I agree that she has some accountability for this, and she knows that. What she told me was that "it's just wrong, what he's doing is wrong...and if I don't do anything about it, then I'm saying it's OK for him to do things like this, and it's not"...not an actual quote but a paraphrase...

[st.cronin]

If I sued every person who ever pissed me off, I would never get out of court.

[Draft Dodger]

I think the "office gossip whore" has a case as well.

[stevew]

Is this actually a "girl you work with" or are you asking for personal advice here?

[Icy]

I have no idea about USA laws, but if the guy who started to spread the word about his profile is no longer working in the company, i can't see how she can demand the company. I guess she could only demand the guy sharing her profile and pics.

If i were her, i would check adultfriendfinder contract/legal agreement for members as probably they have something written there about not allowing any memeber to share other members pics or info outside the site. If the old manager saw the pics, it's because he paid to adultfriendfinder to become a full member, and in the process of paying/signing up, he must have been forced to agree to a contract about the site & members info usage. If he broke that contract and she has the proofs, it could be a good way to go after him.

[rkmsuf]

Just have her show everyone in the office her tits to difuse the tension. Take the power away from the harasser.

Let me know when this is happening.

[Swaggs]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

If I sued every person who ever pissed me off, I would never get out of court.

If you had Swaggus Swaggus representing you, you'd be golden.

[Icy]

Originally Posted by Draft Dodger

I had no idea adultfriendfinder was a legit service.

I have worked advertising a few dating services online, and for what i remember, AFF was the only legit one. With legit i mean having real girls inside the members area and looking for a real date. Most of the other dating clones around are just robot driven and have like a 99% of men population (in AFF it was more like 75 - 25 %).

[MikeVic]

Originally Posted by Icy

I have worked advertising a few dating services online, and for what i remember, AFF was the only legit one. With legit i mean having real girls inside the members area and looking for a real date. Most of the other dating clones around are just robot driven and have like a 99% of men population (in AFF it was more like 75 - 25 %).

What about like eHarmony and those one you see on TV?

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by Swaggs

If you had Swaggus Swaggus representing you, you'd be golden.

[oliegirl]

Originally Posted by stevew

Is this actually a "girl you work with" or are you asking for personal advice here?

LOL...I'm surprised it took that long for that to be asked. No, it's not me...I've seen the site, but even if I was going to join I woudn't put those type of pictures up for this exact reason.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by oliegirl

He has either shown people the pictures, or described them in a lot of detail, and actually made them sound worse then they are. People are saying that she has topless/naked photos where she isn't wearing anything, and that is not true.

I agree that she has some accountability for this, and she knows that. What she told me was that "it's just wrong, what he's doing is wrong...and if I don't do anything about it, then I'm saying it's OK for him to do things like this, and it's not"...not an actual quote but a paraphrase...

I'm extremely confused. Does this guy who no longer works there just hang around the office all day?

[Icy]

Originally Posted by MikeVic

What about like eHarmony and those one you see on TV?

Sorry, never worked with eHarmony and about those you see in TV... i don't know which ones you mean as only match.com advertises in Spain (and it's a more general dating service while AFF is more a dating for sex one). The comment i made is about "dating for sex" services, not about the "dating for friendship/love" ones as i have never worked with them.

Adultfriendfinder is more about "sex" than about "friends" (just take a look at their website).

[oliegirl]

Originally Posted by Logan

I'm extremely confused. Does this guy who no longer works there just hang around the office all day?

No, he's calling in and emailing people who work here.

[BrianD]

Reading through this thread, I don't think your friend has any remedy available to her. Slander might be in play if the guy is telling lies about the content of the pictures, but she would have to prove that he is lying and show some damages resulting from the lie. There is no action without damages. If he is in breech of contract by sharing site pictures and profiles against the contract, the site would have the cause of action, not your friend. If anyone at her company uses this information as a reason to deny her a promotion, she could sue the company, but again she would have to prove it.

I think she is screwed...and not in a good way.

[Lorena]

Originally Posted by Swaggs

If you had Swaggus Swaggus representing you, you'd be golden.

lol

[MikeVic]

Originally Posted by Icy

Sorry, never worked with eHarmony and about those you see in TV... i don't know which ones you mean as only match.com advertises in Spain (and it's a more general dating service while AFF is more a dating for sex one). The comment i made is about "dating for sex" services, not about the "dating for friendship/love" ones as i have never worked with them.

Adultfriendfinder is more about "sex" than about "friends" (just take a look at their website).

Oh ok, thanks. Just wondering. I've heard of the matchmaking ones actually working for some... I think someone on this board actually too.

[chesapeake]

Her case sounds weak based on the circumstances you have outlined. Slander is not an issue -- the allegations are fundamentally true. Since the primary antagonist is no longer with the company, it would be hard to prove the company is somehow liable in court.

I expect it will change how her coworkers view her. How could it not? When she made the decision to post even mildly provocative photos on a public website, she should have realized that anything you do in public may affect on how we are perceived professionally.

That said, the act of posting pictures on the internet should not have an effect on promotion potential or how she is able to do her job. If she is hard-working and professional in the office, her boss(es) should recognize and reward that. If they don't, she should find out why.

Oliegirl, I think your instincts are right on. Unless all the management is like the jackass that already left, this will probably blow over in a couple of weeks. If there's no blood in the water, the sharks will go away.

If this guy continues to wage an offensive campaign, you wouldn't go to the EEOC for a sexual harrassment lawsuit, you'd go to the local court and file for a restraining order and a civil suit for harrassment. You or she should try and get copies of the emails he is sending if legal action becomes necessary.

She is also best served by being truthful and confident with what she has actually done. People are going to look to her for how they should react to this. If she laughs at this jerk, others will too.

[Mustang]

A. I'm not sure if I'm happy or sad that I don't work at your place. Managers in rehab, "Office Gossip Whore" and a girl that posts pictures of herself on AFF.... sounds like an 'interesting' group.

B. I'm not sure who her beef is with. If the manager told someone that her pics were out there and it was twisted to be her naked out there, I'm not sure how you can pin that on him? Plus, in a weird way, some people consider showing your bra to be 'naked'.

From what I gather, he just told someone and didn't actually act on anything and just because you notice someones subscription or membership to something doesn't imply privacy (unless it was medical related like AA which is probably a entirely different ball game probably).

Just seems like she is pissed off at him due to past issues and trying to create something. I'm not sure what could be pinned on him though.... unless I'm missing something.

[Lorena]

Adultfriendfinder, if I recall correctly, is a site where people can find other people for sex: girl-girl, threesomes, swapping... so regardless of the pics if he's spreading stories about what he perceives is her sex life, it ain't cool.

[rkmsuf]

maybe she should sleep with him

[Mustang]

Originally Posted by MikeVic

Oh ok, thanks. Just wondering. I've heard of the matchmaking ones actually working for some... I think someone on this board actually too.

I met my wife via one of these sites. (Not AFF or Eharmony). Definetly meet some 'different' types of people but, most everyone I met was normal.