FOF Data Mining

primelord · 08-03-2007, 09:48 PM

I have compiled data on a little over 70,000 MP plays in FOF. For those that are interested in that data you can access it at the following links:

http://www.fof-research.com/runinfo.php
http://www.fof-research.com/passinfo.php

Enjoy.

Sgran · 08-04-2007, 02:45 AM

Awesome. What does WF stand for?

Also, would it be asking a lot to see fumbles per carry?

gstelmack · 08-04-2007, 08:31 AM

Are these plays you generated or got from leagues? How many are from 2k7-only leagues (i.e. not skewed by 2k4 player ratings)?

Love the start of this idea. Is this from the HTML, or from the Solevision stuff? There's a lot we can track once we start reading the Solevision data.

primelord · 08-04-2007, 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sgran

Awesome. What does WF stand for?

Also, would it be asking a lot to see fumbles per carry?

WF Avg is a win/fail point system. It is based behind the theory that the most important thing to do in football is move the chains. It's what football outsiders based their VOA rankings off of. A play is considered a win if it gains 40% of the needed yards for a 1st down on 1st down, 60% of the needed yards on 2nd down, and only a successful 1st down is a win on 3dr or 4th down. There are bonus points given for big gains and negative points given for losses.

primelord · 08-04-2007, 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gstelmack

Are these plays you generated or got from leagues? How many are from 2k7-only leagues (i.e. not skewed by 2k4 player ratings)?

Love the start of this idea. Is this from the HTML, or from the Solevision stuff? There's a lot we can track once we start reading the Solevision data.

All plays are taken from MP leagues and they are all 2k7 6.0e.

All the data is also taken from the Solevision files.

marcmoustache · 08-05-2007, 02:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by primelord

All plays are taken from MP leagues and they are all 2k7 6.0e.

All the data is also taken from the Solevision files.

Have you cracked the solevision files then??

primelord · 08-05-2007, 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by marcmoustache

Have you cracked the solevision files then??

The vast majority of the files have been cracked, yes.

marcmoustache · 08-05-2007, 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by primelord

The vast majority of the files have been cracked, yes.

Are they sharable (is that a word?)? Would be great to see that data!!

primelord · 08-05-2007, 07:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by marcmoustache

Are they sharable (is that a word?)? Would be great to see that data!!

I am about 70% done with a utility for the public to read those files.

marcmoustache · 08-06-2007, 12:59 AM

Nice, thanks in advance!

marcmoustache · 08-29-2007, 08:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by primelord

I am about 70% done with a utility for the public to read those files.

Don't suppose you're any closer to finishing? Can any of us help?

primelord · 10-05-2007, 11:58 AM

Updated with stats from 6.1:

http://www.fof-research.com/runinfo61.php
http://www.fof-research.com/passinfo61.php

Nogram · 10-05-2007, 09:49 PM

So long passes are out, short passes are in, and your running game is not as good as before. Interesting.

Nogram

RedKingGold · 10-06-2007, 07:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nogram

So long passes are out, short passes are in, and your running game is not as good as before. Interesting.

Nogram

Wouldn't go that far, but it is nice to see the short pass have more of an effect.

RedKingGold · 10-06-2007, 07:49 AM

BTW, thanks again to Plord for taking the time to not only put this information together, but put it out into the community.

Nogram · 11-12-2007, 06:01 PM

Primelord,

I don't mean to be rude, or impatient, but I am wondering how progress on this is going....

If there is any testing or results validation I could do to help, please let me know.

Thank you!

Nogram

primelord · 11-12-2007, 07:28 PM

eh progress is going about as well as it is on the rest of my utilities. At the moment I am pretty close to finishing the next version of change tracker. So that is at the moment my main focus, although I have stalled a bit on it as well.

In the queue after that I think is going to be the automated testing tool. So I would say at the moment this is 3rd on my list. The completion of these things is all about my personal motivation to get them done. I get into moods where I want to code and I make progress. Unfortunately after doing similar tasks all day at work, I have a hard time being motivated ebough to continue doing more on my own time. *shurg*

Synovia · 12-04-2007, 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nogram

So long passes are out, short passes are in, and your running game is not as good as before. Interesting.

Nogram

Not necessarily. The data is pulled from MP leagues, and MP players have known/believed for a while that long passing was more effective. MP players are more likely to be playing deep zones, etc.

Short passing is most likely more effective, but the data is probably being skewed by defenses playing to stop the long pass. More balanced gameplans are probably the way to go.

Ben E Lou · 12-04-2007, 10:51 AM

No. The 6.1 data is pulled purely from SP.

Synovia · 12-04-2007, 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SkyDog

No. The 6.1 data is pulled purely from SP.

Is that the case? If so, my bad. I don't see Primelord stating anything other than that its pulled from MP in the first post in the thread.

Ben E Lou · 12-04-2007, 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Synovia

Is that the case?

Didn't I say that it was? I'm not sure how to be more explicit than "the 6.1 data is pulled purely from SP."

gstelmack · 12-04-2007, 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SkyDog

Didn't I say that it was? I'm not sure how to be more explicit than "the 6.1 data is pulled purely from SP."

By adding the missing "because I'm the one that pulled it for him" bit...

Ben E Lou · 12-04-2007, 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gstelmack

By adding the missing "because I'm the one that pulled it for him" bit...

Greg, I can't PROVE that I pulled the data for him, therefore I must be lying about it. *shurg*

Synovia · 12-04-2007, 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SkyDog

Greg, I can't PROVE that I pulled the data for him, therefore I must be lying about it. *shurg*

No, and I wasn't saying you were lying, nor was Greg. As Greg said, no one had any idea that you had anything to do with the data.

Seeing how the data is linked by primelord, and he said the data is from MP, the natural assumption is that it's primelord's data, and from MP. I had NO WAY to know that it was your data, nor did Greg.

Ben E Lou · 12-04-2007, 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Synovia

No, and I wasn't saying you were lying, nor was Greg. As Greg said, no one had any idea that you had anything to do with the data.

Seeing how the data is linked by primelord, and he said the data is from MP, the natural assumption is that it's primelord's data, and from MP. I had NO WAY to know that it was your data, nor did Greg.

So Greg just *guessed* that it was my data.

Got it.

Synovia · 12-04-2007, 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SkyDog

So Greg just *guessed* that it was my data.

Got it.

I'm not Greg, and I won't speak for him. I don't understand how you expected ME to guess that its your data, and not Primelord's, based on the content of this thread.

Ben E Lou · 12-04-2007, 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Synovia

I'm not Greg, and I won't speak for him. I don't understand how you expected ME to guess that its your data, and not Primelord's, based on the content of this thread.

I didn't expect you to guess that it's my data. Based on your history, I guess I should not have expected "the 6.1 data is pulled purely from SP" to be definitive and absolute enough, I reckon.

Synovia · 12-04-2007, 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SkyDog

I guess I should not have expected "the 6.1 data is pulled purely from SP" to be definitive and absolute enough, I reckon.

No, not when Primelord posted it and said "All plays are taken from MP leagues and they are all 2k7 6.0e." and then posted "Updated with stats from 6.1" with absolutely no mention of SP.

Should I just ignore everything he posted because you said something different, and gave absolutely no hint as to why it was so?

I made a post basically stating to take any MP data with a grain of salt, because players are gameplanning based on certain assumptions. My post was clearly not relevant to the subject at hand, but I had no way to know that at the time.

Ben E Lou · 12-04-2007, 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Synovia

Should I just ignore everything he posted because you said something different, and gave absolutely no hint as to why it was so?

Unless you think I'd tell a bald-faced lie for no reason, sure.

Synovia · 12-04-2007, 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SkyDog

Unless you think I'd tell a bald-faced lie for no reason, sure.

Thats why I asked if you were correct; I was looking for clarification. You proceeded to get all defensive.

Now, lets move on. Interesting note there, is it seems really clear in the running numbers that down/distance is somewhat of a problem. W/F helps, but the success rate in Goal Line, etc, is still rather low. It seems to me that throwing on 3rd and short might not be a bad idea.

Ben E Lou · 12-04-2007, 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Synovia

Thats why I asked if you were correct; I was looking for clarification. You proceeded to get all defensive.

Nah. Just ask my detractors. I'd have to think I was wrong to actually get defensive.

Quote:

Now, lets move on. Interesting note there, is it seems really clear in the running numbers that down/distance is somewhat of a problem. W/F helps, but the success rate in Goal Line, etc, is still rather low. It seems to me that throwing on 3rd and short might not be a bad idea.

I suspect that the GL numbers are skewed due to facing aggressive run a lot more than any other

tarcone · 12-04-2007, 05:41 PM

Based on yards per carry/pass, it seems that a 2 TE set is best to pass out of and wrost to run out of. I thought that would be the other way around.
Interesting

Ben E Lou · 12-04-2007, 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tarcone

Based on yards per carry/pass, it seems that a 2 TE set is best to pass out of and wrost to run out of. I thought that would be the other way around.
Interesting

Identical to the previous thing. Defensive expectation.

Synovia · 12-05-2007, 08:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SkyDog

Identical to the previous thing. Defensive expectation.

Right, which is why it may be better to come out in 3rd and 1 and throw the ball. You're almost always going to get run/aggressive run in that situation, so some 3-wide set and short passing may be a good idea. I still don't know if running on 3rd and long is a good idea though...you'll bust a lot of 8 yard runs, but those are useless when its 3rd and 13.

Yoda · 08-12-2010, 07:32 PM

Any chance something like this can be revived?

boberot · 08-13-2010, 09:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yoda

Any chance something like this can be revived?

What, a squabble between Ben and a newer board member?
I'm pretty sure.

Yoda · 08-13-2010, 10:29 AM

hehe

While as entertaining as that might be, no.

The information the data mining provided was good stuff.

Erik Holland · 08-15-2010, 05:59 AM

The links to the data doesn't work any more does it?

Yoda · 08-15-2010, 07:16 AM

No, they haven't for a while.

primelord · 08-17-2010, 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yoda

Any chance something like this can be revived?

Anything is possible.

Kodos · 08-17-2010, 03:12 PM

That's what Debbie Gibson taught us.

Yoda · 08-17-2010, 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by primelord

Anything is possible.

Is there anything I can do to help the process along?

primelord · 08-17-2010, 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yoda

Is there anything I can do to help the process along?

Got any money?

Yoda · 08-17-2010, 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by primelord

Got any money?

Not much atm. Dragon*Con is expensive, but a little.

primelord · 08-17-2010, 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yoda

Not much atm. Dragon*Con is expensive, but a little.

Hmm..... got any sandwiches?

primelord · 08-17-2010, 03:48 PM

or old porn magazines? Anything pre 1982 will do.

Yoda · 08-17-2010, 03:58 PM

nah, no porn, that is what the internet is for.

But if you live in/close to Georgia, I'll fix ya a snadwich or 12... or a steak dinner.

Yoda · 08-17-2010, 03:59 PM

Actually, about to go out and get Five Guys Burger and Fries for dinner. You're welcome to come along. If you live close to Woodstock, GA that is.

cuervo72 · 08-17-2010, 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by primelord

or old porn magazines? Anything pre 1982 will do.

Dang, if you would have told me this in 1997 or so...

primelord · 08-17-2010, 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yoda

Actually, about to go out and get Five Guys Burger and Fries for dinner. You're welcome to come along. If you live close to Woodstock, GA that is.

I do like Five Guys........

Ben is sending me a bunch of data tonight. I'll look into fixing those screens.

08-04-2007, 02:45 AM	#2
Sgran High School Varsity Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Budapest	Awesome. What does WF stand for? Also, would it be asking a lot to see fumbles per carry? Last edited by Sgran : 08-04-2007 at 02:52 AM.

08-04-2007, 08:31 AM	#3
gstelmack Pro Starter Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Cary, NC	Are these plays you generated or got from leagues? How many are from 2k7-only leagues (i.e. not skewed by 2k4 player ratings)? Love the start of this idea. Is this from the HTML, or from the Solevision stuff? There's a lot we can track once we start reading the Solevision data. __________________ -- Greg -- Author of various FOF utilities

12-04-2007, 10:51 AM	#19
Ben E Lou Morgado's Favorite Forum Fascist Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Greensboro, NC	No. The 6.1 data is pulled purely from SP. __________________ The media don't understand the kinds of problems and pressures 54 million come wit'!

08-12-2010, 07:32 PM	#35
Yoda High School Varsity Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Woodstock, GA	Any chance something like this can be revived? __________________ Championships Won CCFL 2040 PFL 2015 2022 2026 2046 FFL 2013 2014 2015 RNFL 2014 2029 GMFL 2009 HFL 1983 1987 1990 TFL 1983 vNFL 2024 GML 2011 WOOF 2018

08-13-2010, 10:29 AM	#37
Yoda High School Varsity Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Woodstock, GA	hehe While as entertaining as that might be, no. The information the data mining provided was good stuff. __________________ Championships Won CCFL 2040 PFL 2015 2022 2026 2046 FFL 2013 2014 2015 RNFL 2014 2029 GMFL 2009 HFL 1983 1987 1990 TFL 1983 vNFL 2024 GML 2011 WOOF 2018

08-06-2007, 12:59 AM	#10
marcmoustache H.S. Freshman Team Join Date: Jun 2005	Nice, thanks in advance!

10-05-2007, 11:58 AM	#12
primelord Pro Rookie Join Date: Oct 2000	Updated with stats from 6.1: http://www.fof-research.com/runinfo61.php http://www.fof-research.com/passinfo61.php

10-05-2007, 09:49 PM	#13
Nogram Mascot Join Date: Nov 2006	So long passes are out, short passes are in, and your running game is not as good as before. Interesting. Nogram

10-06-2007, 07:49 AM	#15
RedKingGold College Starter Join Date: Oct 2002	BTW, thanks again to Plord for taking the time to not only put this information together, but put it out into the community.

11-12-2007, 06:01 PM	#16
Nogram Mascot Join Date: Nov 2006	Primelord, I don't mean to be rude, or impatient, but I am wondering how progress on this is going.... If there is any testing or results validation I could do to help, please let me know. Thank you! Nogram

11-12-2007, 07:28 PM	#17
primelord Pro Rookie Join Date: Oct 2000	eh progress is going about as well as it is on the rest of my utilities. At the moment I am pretty close to finishing the next version of change tracker. So that is at the moment my main focus, although I have stalled a bit on it as well. In the queue after that I think is going to be the automated testing tool. So I would say at the moment this is 3rd on my list. The completion of these things is all about my personal motivation to get them done. I get into moods where I want to code and I make progress. Unfortunately after doing similar tasks all day at work, I have a hard time being motivated ebough to continue doing more on my own time. shurg

12-04-2007, 05:41 PM	#32
tarcone Coordinator Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Pacific	Based on yards per carry/pass, it seems that a 2 TE set is best to pass out of and wrost to run out of. I thought that would be the other way around. Interesting

08-15-2010, 05:59 AM	#38
Erik Holland n00b Join Date: Nov 2009	The links to the data doesn't work any more does it?

08-15-2010, 07:16 AM	#39
Yoda High School Varsity Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Woodstock, GA	No, they haven't for a while. __________________ Championships Won CCFL 2040 PFL 2015 2022 2026 2046 FFL 2013 2014 2015 RNFL 2014 2029 GMFL 2009 HFL 1983 1987 1990 TFL 1983 vNFL 2024 GML 2011 WOOF 2018

08-17-2010, 03:12 PM	#41
Kodos Resident Alien Join Date: Jun 2001	That's what Debbie Gibson taught us. __________________ Indiana Hoosiers Football - 2025-26 National Champs The FOFC Ladder History thread

08-17-2010, 03:48 PM	#46
primelord Pro Rookie Join Date: Oct 2000	or old porn magazines? Anything pre 1982 will do. __________________ .

08-17-2010, 03:58 PM	#47
Yoda High School Varsity Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Woodstock, GA	nah, no porn, that is what the internet is for. But if you live in/close to Georgia, I'll fix ya a snadwich or 12... or a steak dinner. __________________ Championships Won CCFL 2040 PFL 2015 2022 2026 2046 FFL 2013 2014 2015 RNFL 2014 2029 GMFL 2009 HFL 1983 1987 1990 TFL 1983 vNFL 2024 GML 2011 WOOF 2018

08-17-2010, 03:59 PM	#48
Yoda High School Varsity Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Woodstock, GA	Actually, about to go out and get Five Guys Burger and Fries for dinner. You're welcome to come along. If you live close to Woodstock, GA that is. __________________ Championships Won CCFL 2040 PFL 2015 2022 2026 2046 FFL 2013 2014 2015 RNFL 2014 2029 GMFL 2009 HFL 1983 1987 1990 TFL 1983 vNFL 2024 GML 2011 WOOF 2018

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