Ping: Marines. Suck it.

[Subby]

Berkeley to Marines: You're 'not welcome in our city'

* Berkeley, California, tells Marine recruiters they're "not welcome in our city"
* GOP lawmakers introduce bill to take $2 million in federal funds from city
* Protester says recruiters attract youth "to go to Iraq to kill and be killed"
* Veteran blasts City Council, says Marines are "the best thing we have"

(CNN) -- Berkeley, the famously liberal college town in California, has taken aim at Marine recruiters, saying they are "not welcome in our city."

Republican lawmakers in Washington fired back this week, threatening to take back more than $2 million of federal funding to the city as well as money designated for the University of California-Berkeley, the campus that became a haven of protests during the Vietnam War.

The battle erupted after the Berkeley City Council approved a measure last week urging the Marine recruiters to leave their downtown office.

"If recruiters choose to stay, they do so as uninvited and unwelcome intruders," the item says.

It goes on to say the council applauds residents and organizations that "volunteer to impede, passively or actively, by nonviolent means, the work of any military recruiting office located in the City of Berkeley."

Outside the Shattuck Avenue recruiting station earlier this week, a handful of protesters with the anti-war group Code Pink camped out, strumming a guitar as they sang anti-war songs and held signs against the Iraq war.

"Time to end the war, time to end the war, time to end the war right now," they sang to the beat of "I've Been Working on the Railroad."

One giant sign said, "No Military Predators in Our Town." Another message on a pink placard read, "Join the Marines. Travel to Exotic Lands. Meet Exciting and Unusual People -- And Kill Them."

Zanne Joi peered out from under her straw hat. "This Marine recruiting station is trying to recruit our youth to go to Iraq to kill and be killed. And we are against that," said Joi, a member of Code Pink Women for Peace.

"This is part of a multi-pronged effort to end this war."

Protester Sharon Adams added: "This recruiting station recruits people to go fight and then once they fight and they serve their country, our country doesn't take care of them. That's a shame."

But not everyone here supports the protesters.

Forrest Smith, who described himself as a veteran of U.S. Special Forces, said his son recently returned from a tour in Iraq and his daughter served in Afghanistan.

"My position on this is the Marines are the best thing we have," said Smith, decked out in Army fatigues.

He blasted the City Council for its action. "It's clearly an abuse of power."

A group of young students who strolled down the sidewalk shared that sentiment. They derided one of the protesters who argued the United States was involved in an illegal war in Iraq.

"Where's the logic in that whatsoever?" one of the young men said. "That's our national security, and you're here protesting the Marines."

Another said, "It makes me sick. It makes me sick."

Gunnery Sgt. Pauline Franklin, a spokeswoman for the Marine Corps Recruiting Command, told CNN there is "no plan for that office to move."

She said recruiters are there to "provide information to qualified men and women who are looking for opportunities that they may benefit from by serving in the military."

"The Marine Corps is here to support and defend the Constitution of the United States, which does guarantee the freedom of speech," Franklin said. "In terms of the situation in Berkeley, the City Council and the protesters are exercising their right to do so."

In Washington, a group of Republican lawmakers have introduced the Semper Fi Act of 2008 -- named after the Marine motto -- to rescind more than $2 million of funds for Berkeley and transfer it to the Marine Corps.

"Like most Americans, I really get disturbed when taxpayer money goes to institutions which proceed to take votes, make policy or make statements that really denigrate the military," said Sen. David Vitter, R-Louisiana, a co-sponsor of the bill.

He told CNN he believes the bill will pass. "I think it's going to have significant support."

The bill's co-sponsor, Sen. Jim DeMint, R-South Carolina, said in a written statement, "Berkeley needs to learn that their actions have consequences."

Berkeley's declaration, which was introduced by the city's Peace and Justice Commission, accuses the United States of having a history of "launching illegal, immoral and unprovoked wars of aggression and the Bush administration launched the most recent of those wars in Iraq and is threatening the possibility of war in Iran."

It adds, "Military recruiters are salespeople known to lie to and seduce minors and young adults into contracting themselves into military service with false promises regarding jobs, job training, education and other benefits."

Out on Shattuck Avenue, it appears the protesters have no plans to leave anytime soon. "We are the civilian population; we control the military," Adams said. "We the people have to take back our control of the military."

[Greyroofoo]

Air Force > Marines

[JonInMiddleGA]

If there's ever been a place that should be bombed off the face of the earth, it's Bezerkley.

[rkmsuf]

Why would the Marines even want any of the pussies from Berkeley?

[Honolulu_Blue]

Why does it seem like every city council in every city across America is retarded?

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by rkmsuf

Why would the Marines even want any of the pussies from Berkeley?

Target practice?

[Butter]

Berkeley's still virulently liberal and anti-war.

In other news, cell phones are now a hot item. Who knew?

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

Why does it seem like every city council in every city across America is retarded?

And yet people wonder why I'm not really a big fan of too much "local control".

[Klinglerware]

It's Berkeley, what do you want?

[Subby]

Regardless of how you feel about the protest, do you think this approach could be considered as an unconstitutional infringement on free speech?:

In Washington, a group of Republican lawmakers have introduced the Semper Fi Act of 2008 -- named after the Marine motto -- to rescind more than $2 million of funds for Berkeley and transfer it to the Marine Corps.

"Like most Americans, I really get disturbed when taxpayer money goes to institutions which proceed to take votes, make policy or make statements that really denigrate the military," said Sen. David Vitter, R-Louisiana, a co-sponsor of the bill.

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by rkmsuf

Why would the Marines even want any of the pussies from Berkeley?

+1

The surprising thing from that story is that the Marines actually recruit in Berkeley.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Subby

Regardless of how you feel about the protest, do you think this approach could be considered as an unconstitutional infringement on free speech?:

Not at all, as funds can be reallocated if a more deserving need is found. I mean, there's nothing preventing them from saying what they want, but actions have consequences (and rightfully so).

[Sgran]

has ahnold reacted?

[JPhillips]

"Like most Americans, I really get disturbed when taxpayer money goes to institutions which proceed to take votes, make policy or make statements that really denigrate paying for sex," said Sen. David Vitter, R-Louisiana, a co-sponsor of the bill.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by Subby

Regardless of how you feel about the protest, do you think this approach could be considered as an unconstitutional infringement on free speech?:

Congress has spending power. They don't have to give federal funding out to everyone. They can place conditions on it.

[molson]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Congress has spending power. They don't have to give federal funding out to everyone. They can place conditions on it.

Yup see, "raise your drinking age to 21 or we'll cut your federal highway funding" for the most famous example.

[Dr. Sak]

I wonder if these were the same kids that were camped out in the trees outside Cal's football stadium in protesting the University's decision to cut the trees down to build a bigger facility?

[Karlifornia]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

If there's ever been a place that should be bombed off the face of the earth, it's Bezerkley.

JonInMiddleQatar

Originally Posted by article

"Time to end the war, time to end the war, time to end the war right now," they sang to the beat of "I've Been Working on the Railroad."

How does this even work? I'm trying to figure it out...but I just wind up holding notes for way too long.

[Anthony]

this pic is the funniest:

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Karlifornia

How does this even work? I'm trying to figure it out...but I just wind up holding notes for way too long.

+1

[Mustang]

Originally Posted by Hell Atlantic

this pic is the funniest:

Which part?

The guy quoting Full Metal Jacket or the shaved Yeti?

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

I mean, there's nothing preventing them from saying what they want, but actions have consequences (and rightfully so).

then it's not exactly free speech then. free speech is just what it is - a right that you have with no strings attached.


that's like your neighbor telling you you're free to bang his hot wife all you want, but if you do it he's gonna shit in your mailbox and shove your own penis up your anus.

that's not exactly a great deal.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by Mustang

Which part?

The guy quoting Full Metal Jacket or the shaved Yeti?

i'm going to assume that is a female.


i shudder to think if that thing is married. that would mean someone is actually legally obligated to fornicate with her - and only her - for the rest of his life. ooof.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Hell Atlantic

free speech is just what it is - a right that you have with no strings attached.

Except that isn't what "free speech" is, and never has been.

[DaddyTorgo]

my take: they can protest and pass resolutions saying "we don't like you."

that's all protected under freedom of speech and they should be able to keep their $$.

it's when they actively ban them and remove them from town that they cross the line.

[cartman]

Originally Posted by Hell Atlantic

but if you do it he's gonna shit in your mailbox

I thought we already went over what is allowed in mailboxes in another thread.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

they should be able to keep their $$.

They're extremely lucky they aren't prosecuted for treason, really no sense getting greedy.

[Dr. Sak]

Maybe the US should allow Berkley to make itself its own country and when it does send the Marines in to flatten it.

[King of New York]

I don't see how withholding federal funds could be construed as censorship. It's not as though municipalities have a constitutional right to federal money. Retaliation, sure, but censorship?

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

They're extremely lucky they aren't prosecuted for treason, really no sense getting greedy.

and this is the part when i remind myself not to bother engaging in debate with a kook.

[Drake]

Originally Posted by bsak16

Maybe the US should allow Berkley to make itself its own country and when it does send the Marines in to flatten it.

Okay, that made me laugh. Damn you, bsak!

My take is simple: it's a good rule of thumb that one should always avoid pissing off people with ready access to firearms and the training to use them.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Hell Atlantic

and this is the part when i remind myself not to bother engaging in debate with a kook.

If engaging in public relations attacks on the United States military does not provide (psychological) aid and/or comfort to our enemies, I'll eat my fucking hat and yours too.

If you're too fucking stupid to understand that, there's not really anything I can do help you.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

If engaging in public relations attacks on the United States military does not provide (psychological) aid and/or comfort to our enemies, I'll eat my fucking hat and yours too.

If you're too fucking stupid to understand that, there's not really anything I can do help you.

and voting Democrat to remove the Republican (ie, Pro War) Administration validates the actions of our enemies. so what's your point?

free speech means you take the good with the bad. men have died so the public can prevent the government from going unchecked. you don't have to respect the message, but you have to respect the right for the person to express the message. what you want to advocate is the beginning of the govenment getting their foot in the door of censorship.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Hell Atlantic

and voting Democrat to remove the Republican (ie, Pro War) Administration validates the actions of our enemies. so what's your point?

Read your first quoted sentence and see if you didn't just answer your own question.

free speech means you take the good with the bad.

Not when the speech is treasonous it doesn't, or rather, it shouldn't.

[JAG]

Originally Posted by Karlifornia

How does this even work? I'm trying to figure it out...but I just wind up holding notes for way too long.

I thought so too, then I tried this:

'Been working on the railroad': Dinah won't you blow? Dinah won't you blow? Dinah won't you blow your hor-or-orn?

'Time to end the war': Time to end the war. Time to end the war. Time to end the war right now-ow-ow.

[rkmsuf]

Bamp bamp bamp bamp ba nah nah nah bamp bamp bamp bamp ba nah nah nah

[Critch]

Originally Posted by Karlifornia

How does this even work? I'm trying to figure it out...but I just wind up holding notes for way too long.

"Time to end the war right now
Time to end the war
end the war
end the war
Time to end the war right now"

to the tune of "99 bottles of beer" works better.

[sachmo71]

Originally Posted by Greyroofoo

Air Force > Marines

At scrabble and having the shiniest shoes.

[lordscarlet]

I didn't really read this thread, but I don't like recruiters.

[Calis]

Originally Posted by lordscarlet

I didn't really read this thread, but I don't like recruiters.

Yeah, stupid reasoning on Berkley's part and can't agree with that, but if they were trying to get rid of recruiters because they're douchebags, I'd be 100% behind them.

[duckman]

To the Berkeley City Council and Code Pink protesters:

You're Welcome.

Signed,

A U.S. Military Veteran (1997-2004)

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by Hell Atlantic

then it's not exactly free speech then. free speech is just what it is - a right that you have with no strings attached.

To double up on JimGA, no, that's not what free speech is according to our Constitution.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by Calis

Yeah, stupid reasoning on Berkley's part and can't agree with that, but if they were trying to get rid of recruiters because they're douchebags, I'd be 100% behind them.

Ehhh.... they aren't all douchebags. One of my friends just signed up for OCS after graduating college. It was hilarious seeing him walk in the door, saying he wanted to sign up for OCS, had a college degree and could easily pass the physical requirements, and the guy kept trying to talk him into signing up for enlisted instead (probably because that's where he needed his quota met.) After getting nowhere with this guy for a decent amount of time, we decided to leave but the other guy there called us over, closed his door, said don't listen to him and walked my friend through the process straight and honest. I've also talked to a number here at UMass, and while the majority have been chiefs, a couple seemed like decent guys.

[Calis]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

Ehhh.... they aren't all douchebags. One of my friends just signed up for OCS after graduating college. It was hilarious seeing him walk in the door, saying he wanted to sign up for OCS, had a college degree and could easily pass the physical requirements, and the guy kept trying to talk him into signing up for enlisted instead (probably because that's where he needed his quota met.) After getting nowhere with this guy for a decent amount of time, we decided to leave but the other guy there called us over, closed his door, said don't listen to him and walked my friend through the process straight and honest. I've also talked to a number here at UMass, and while the majority have been chiefs, a couple seemed like decent guys.

Oh yeah, there are always a few that are decent guys, but the vast majority I ran across(and that was quite a few), were tools, and I hate the way they go about manipulating kids who are usually in pretty dire straits to begin with. I'm not sure my recruiter told me one single thing that was actually true, and the recruiters of the other services were even worse.

I'd feel sorry for them because they get a lot of pressure and crap thrown on them, but the majority that I saw enjoyed what they were doing, so no pity here.

[Rizon]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

If there's ever been a place that should be bombed off the face of the earth, it's Bezerkley.

I couldn't agree more. It's currently a wasteland of useless flesh.

[Raiders Army]

Having had some of my soldiers become recruiters I feel a certain pity for them. You understand that the recruiters are not ultimately to blame for (most) of their methods? They are threatened by their commanders to "make mission" every month or they will be kicked out. Most of them are lifers and have hit the 10 year mark, so this is a pretty serious threat to them and their families.

If we had a draft that would solve the recruiter problems, the class problem of who's fighting this war, and the manning problems for the Army and Marines. It would also maybe make some of them men.

[Toddzilla]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

They're extremely lucky they aren't prosecuted for treason, really no sense getting greedy.

Treason? Are you the Mayor of Berzerkely? That's even nuttier than those DFHs.

[Toddzilla]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

If engaging in public relations attacks on the United States military does not provide (psychological) aid and/or comfort to our enemies, I'll eat my fucking hat and yours too.

If you're too fucking stupid to understand that, there's not really anything I can do help you.

LOL! I'm sure the terrorists are watching CNN right now and hearing of the protests in Berkeley and are now determined "just that much more" to destroy our culture. After a hard day in the desert practicing suicide bombings, there's nothing like hearing an American speak out against the war to really take the edge off.

You, sir, are fucking insane.

[Toddzilla]

And finally, what brain-dead moron thought it would be a good idea, much less a productive one, to go to Bezerkley to try and find kids willing to ship off to war? Now *thats* crazy.

[Rizon]

Originally Posted by Toddzilla

And finally, what brain-dead moron thought it would be a good idea, much less a productive one, to go to Bezerkley to try and find kids willing to ship off to war? Now *thats* crazy.

You honestly have no idea what kind of damage an 18 year old can do with a bong. Plus terrorists hate emo music.