Oh hai, I doan wants 2 pulay Army nomore!

[Young Drachma]

Desert?

The Stark County Jail isn't where Michelle Harrold thought she would land when she signed up for the U.S. Army.

But that is where the 20-year-old found herself this week after she was arrested at her parents' home on a warrant for military desertion, a felony.

"I have no idea what's going on," Harrold, who was taken into custody at 9:58 p.m. Monday, said in a call from the jail.

The 2006 Jackson High School graduate went to college for a semester, but she didn't make the grades. She then went to work in a store at Westfield Belden Village Mall.

There, she met a military recruiter in June. If she committed for 3 years and 20 weeks, she would earn a $20,000 bonus, get money for college and a generous salary, Harrold said she was told.

"I wanted to go back to school," Harrold said. "I didn't know what for. I was supposed to get a $20,000 bonus. I guess that was kind of what I was thinking about, mostly."

It didn't take her long to sign the paperwork to enlist.

"One day, my daughter came to me and told me she signed up for the Army," her mother, Beverly Harrold said. "I asked her 'Do you know what you're doing?' All she saw was the dollar signs."

By July, Harrold realized she had made a mistake.

"There is virtually no way to get out if you find out you don't want to do it," Harrold said. She was deployed to Fort Jackson, S.C., in August.

I WANT OUT

Upon her arrival at Fort Jackson, Harrold told superiors she had made a mistake and wanted out.

"I guess I couldn't handle it," Harrold said. "It's not an easy process to go through, missing your family. People are really mean to you in the military. I got beat up twice."

Douglas Smith, a spokesperson for the Army's recruiting command at Fort Knox, said if someone truly wants out of their commitment, it's possible before or after leaving for boot camp.

"We're an all-volunteer force, but we don't go out of our way to talk about this," Smith said. "Our expectation is that they're going to honor their side of the contract, and were going to honor ours.

"Going AWOL (absent without official leave) is not the way to handle it. Until the person ships off to basic training, they can ask to be signed off."

No one listened to her desire to leave the military, Harrold said.

"Essentially, if they've done nothing wrong, our regulations prevent us from saying it was a mistake, see you later," Fort Jackson Deputy Public Affairs Officer Patrick Jones said. "We're bound to do counseling. If they've done nothing wrong, we cannot separate them."

OFF ON MY OWN

Within two months of Harrold's arrival at Fort Jackson, she decided to leave the base without permission.

She had never received a uniform. She was never a part of a company. She never took part in boot camp.

Harrold went AWOL on Sept. 24, two days before she was to meet with a counselor about leaving military life.

"There are official ways to do these things," Smith said. "Just disappearing from the formation isn't it."

Harrold did return to the base within 30 days.

"I went back the first time because my parents had me go back," Harrold said.

She didn't stay long. She left again on Oct. 24. That time she didn't return, her whereabouts were unknown.

After 30 days AWOL, Harrold was labeled a deserter and a warrant was issued for her arrest. She is one of 4,698 enlisted soldiers who left Army service without permission last year. That's nearly 1 percent of its enlistees.

On Feb. 10, Harrold returned to her parents' Jackson Township home. A day later, she was arrested by township police officers.

"We went to the defendant's home to serve a warrant for desertion," Maj. Dave Zink said. "We received an anonymous tip. It's actually like a federal warrant. The military will come in and take custody."

Harrold has been in jail since. Her parents planned to buy her a bus ticket to Fort Knox to get her situation straightened out, but they never had a chance.

"I told her, 'We all back you up,' " Beverly Harrold said. "We wish it hadn't gotten this far. Since it has, we have to deal with it from this standpoint. ... There is not a whole lot we can do."

Once in military custody, Harrold will be sent back to Fort Jackson. From there, she'll be disciplined.

"It can range anywhere from a counseling of don't do it again or, depending upon the circumstances, it could go to court marshal," Jones said. "The difference between the left and right parameters is extreme."

THINK HARD, THINK LONG

The Harrold family isn't making any excuses for Michelle Harrold's actions, but they want other teenagers and parents to learn from what she did.

"First of all, when you ask your child about it, if the first thing that comes out of that child's mouth is the money, tell them your life is worth more than $12,000 — $1,000 a month," Beverly Harrold said. "Tell them if they're truly serious, think about it for six months."

Smith said joining the military is a decision that should be thought out.

"A person who is considering service needs to think about the totality of what the commitment would mean," he said. "There are some obvious benefits to the Army — service to country, motivation for the tangible like cash or money for college. But they also need to weigh other aspects."

In a pilot program in Cleveland, the military is offering a $40,000 signing bonus. The first recruits for the program were sworn in this week.

"There is a better way to make money," Beverly Harrold said. "They do have good things to offer, but money, that shouldn't be the main thing."

If Harrold had it to do over, she wouldn't have signed up for the Army.

"I would honestly tell people not to do it," she said. "Everything is a lie. They will lie to you to have you do whatever."

Joining the military isn't an easy decision, Smith said. He noted recruiters should help with the decision, along with friends and family.

"People need to make a well thought-out decision," he said. "Our recruiters are there to help with the pros and cons."

And if a change of heart takes place, Jones said the official procedures, such as entry-level separation, can help a person de-enlist.

"Separation is a process," Jones said. "None are done overnight."

For Harrold, the future is a question mark, but she plans to go by the military's rules to get back home.

"I told her 'I hope you learn something from this,' " Beverly Harrold said. "I hope she makes it into something positive. If she doesn't, she's only going to hurt herself."

[st.cronin]

I like the thread title.

[Young Drachma]

I've been wanting to use lolcat in a thread for a while now. This one seemed appropriate.

[dacman]

This thread is useless without an angry cat in camo pic.

[Pumpy Tudors]

opened thread to find a pic of shane doan
stayed for the st.cronin appearance

[flere-imsaho]

Within two months of Harrold's arrival at Fort Jackson, she decided to leave the base without permission.

She had never received a uniform. She was never a part of a company. She never took part in boot camp.

Harrold went AWOL on Sept. 24, two days before she was to meet with a counselor about leaving military life.

Good to see the Army is as efficient as it was when my brother went through Basic.

[flere-imsaho]

Of course, it's too bad she doesn't suffer from PTSD, then it would be easy to get out!

Of course, it would kinda suck to be this guy:

Uloth says that when he went to the mental health center at Camp Pendleton's hospital to ask for help, they were so overwhelmed by returning troops with mental health problems that he couldn't book a therapy appointment for months. The staff eventually gave him sporadic counseling, and prescribed a cocktail of powerful medications, but Uloth complained that the drugs made him feel worse.

So, he took off from Camp Pendleton without permission: Uloth went AWOL, as it's commonly called. (The Marines call it UA for "unauthorized absence.")

But he didn't disappear. Instead, Uloth checked himself into a psychiatric center he had heard about at an Air Force base in Mississippi. He started getting intensive therapy, which he couldn't get at his own base.

When Uloth's commanders learned where he was, they sent two guards to arrest and restrain him with handcuffs and metal shackles. They locked him in a jail cell at Camp Pendleton for almost two months, even though a military medical staff member concluded that he was "unfit for confinement."

And then, commanders at Camp Pendleton gave Uloth a "less than honorable" discharge. That means the federal government won't give him disability payments, even though the military's medical staff diagnosed him with "uncontrollable trembling," "memory loss" and "chronic PTSD."

The government won't pay Uloth's way through college under the GI Bill. And Uloth's less than honorable discharge likely means that he can't get medical treatment at the VA. According to federal rules, officials at local VA centers have discretion to help vets with that discharge if officials consider the vets to be "meritorious," or turn them away.

[Raiders Army]

She had never received a uniform. She was never a part of a company. She never took part in boot camp.

I seriously doubt this part of the story.

[flere-imsaho]

Originally Posted by Raiders Army

I seriously doubt this part of the story.

Ben showed up to Ft. Benning in early August, 2001 and sat around doing nothing until the 2nd week of September, when he got assigned to a company (or whatever unit it is you get assigned to) and got his uniform. His first "formal" day of Basic was 9/11/01, sadly.

I don't find that part of the article outside the realm of reality.

By the way, what do you think of the Army & Marines discharging soldiers "less than honorably" for having PTSD?

[Mustang]

Originally Posted by Raiders Army

I seriously doubt this part of the story.

Possible that she showed up, expressed her desire to get out and they put her in a holdover company.

The guys that couldn't hack it in the Air Force they usually got rid of pretty quick, but wouldn't doubt the Army was slower.

[JS19]

I don't understand "never recieved a uniform" part. I don't know how the other branches do things, but in the Marine Corps, the only clothing you had was what you were wearing when you shipped off. I can, however, see how she was never assigned to a company. I remember guys down there that were waiting around for a month, some even longer, to get picked up for whatever reasons.

[Pumpy Tudors]

still waiting for shane doan pic

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by Raiders Army

I seriously doubt this part of the story.

Air Force basic training, you don't get uniforms until Week 3 and you didn't get dress blues until Week 4 or 5. You where PT gear everywhere for the beginning. Part of it is helpful because it lets people know who are eyeballing a training base what week you're in and who you might be...because in theory, there is no difference between an Airman Basic with name patches and in tech school, for a basic trainee. Especially at Lackland, where they have 'em all.

(Unless you were in the marching band flight like I was. Then that was all sooner.) This was of course about 10 years ago, but...I can't imagine it's changed drastically.

So it's probably true or at least within the realm of possibility.

I'm guessing knowing she was a person who didn't want to hang out, meant that she was probably in some sort of holding company until they decided what to do with her derelict non-committal ass.

[Mustang]

Originally Posted by Dark Cloud

Air Force basic training, you don't get uniforms until Week 3 and you didn't get dress blues until Week 4 or 5. You where PT gear everywhere for the beginning.

Guess that changed. We got our fatigues right away on day 1 back in 88' and only wore PT gear during PT.

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by Mustang

Guess that changed. We got our fatigues right away on day 1 back in 88' and only wore PT gear during PT.

I bet you guys still got smoke breaks, huh?

They used to tell us about that. It's possible they've changed it again, since I know they've added an extra week of basic since we were in.

I joined in '98 when they were "trying" to make it more hard core. We had an overnight FTX and a field march. Now, the kids go to the field for an entire week and they can even drop and make them do pushups. That wasn't allowed in '98, but they changed a year later when kids came to tech school and were telling us about it and we were horrified.

[Pumpy Tudors]

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by Pumpy Tudors

If you want shit done right, you gotta do it yourself.

[Pumpy Tudors]

Originally Posted by Dark Cloud

If you want shit done right, you gotta do it yourself.

Evidently.

[Mustang]

Originally Posted by Dark Cloud

I bet you guys still got smoke breaks, huh?

I don't even remember smoke breaks. (I don't smoke so, maybe that just glossed over in my memory)

Actually, I don't remember even being allowed to have smokes because those that were smokers when the TI left for the night the smokers in the squad would fight over the butts in the ashtray that he left behind.

[Greyroofoo]

I went through Air Force Basic in May 2004, We got our uniforms in about 3 days and dress blues in 3-4 weeks. The whole thing was 6 1/2 weeks. I believe they added another week or two since I went through.

We had no smoke breaks.

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by Mustang

I don't even remember smoke breaks. (I don't smoke so, maybe that just glossed over in my memory)

Actually, I don't remember even being allowed to have smokes because those that were smokers when the TI left for the night the smokers in the squad would fight over the butts in the ashtray that he left behind.

I don't smoke either. I just remember during Week 5 when we got to make phone calls, a TI telling us about how that in the "old days" they got smoke breaks and they could have candy and cigarettes or whatever. And that now people come and get free smoking cessation class in the form of PT and screaming.

[JediKooter]

Originally Posted by Mustang

Guess that changed. We got our fatigues right away on day 1 back in 88' and only wore PT gear during PT.

We got our uniforms (BDUs) on day 2 or 3 of basic at Lackland. We got our dress blues a few weeks after. That was August of 90. Every service is different, but, every service has no lack of dumb asses to screw something up. It sounds like a screw up to me if you are waiting more than a couple of days to get your uniforms.


Excuse me while I go find my Lackland laser...

[Mustang]

Originally Posted by JediKooter

Excuse me while I go find my Lackland laser...

Damn... I forgot about that name.

I actually have my PT shirt in a box still folded in the square from basic. Amazing and pathetic all rolled into one.

[st.cronin]

I actually remember almost nothing from Basic Training.

[Calis]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

I actually remember almost nothing from Basic Training.

I remember too much.

[RomaGoth]

"I would honestly tell people not to do it," she said. "Everything is a lie. They will lie to you to have you do whatever."

What a dumbass. Seriously. It is all a lie if you think that:

1) The military is going to "give you" $20k for nothing
2) You are a dumbass
3) You don't read the fine print when you sign up
4) You believe that you are joining Club Med
5) You are a dumbass

When I joined the Navy back in 1993, I knew what I was getting into and I was the same age as this dummy. She is the reason our military is becoming more and more inept. They should just boot her out with a dishonorable and be done with her.

[RomaGoth]

Originally Posted by Calis

I remember too much.

Same here.

[RomaGoth]

Originally Posted by Raiders Army

I seriously doubt this part of the story.

It is probably true, but you never really know for sure what happened. When I joined up, we got our gear and stuff the first week of boot camp but we were not allowed to wear it until about the 3rd week or so. Until then, we had to wear our PT gear (others have mentioned this here as well). You always knew who the new recruits were by the short blue shorts, blue/white t-shirt with the name of the base on it, and the ridiculous tennis shoes. Those shoes were the worst things I have ever seen.....

[Raiders Army]

Originally Posted by flere-imsaho

Ben showed up to Ft. Benning in early August, 2001 and sat around doing nothing until the 2nd week of September, when he got assigned to a company (or whatever unit it is you get assigned to) and got his uniform. His first "formal" day of Basic was 9/11/01, sadly.

I don't find that part of the article outside the realm of reality.

Gotcha. I was enlisted...sort of. We got our uniforms the 2nd day, but that may be a by-product of USMAPS.

By the way, what do you think of the Army & Marines discharging soldiers "less than honorably" for having PTSD?

Hmmmm....this is a tough one. I think that there's more to this story that what is being said here. In this particular situation, the soldier went AWOL which would be the primary reason why he would be discharged I imagine. There is no discharge that is "less than honorable" which is why I think the article is not telling the whole story. You can receive an Honorable discharge, a General Discharge, an Other than Honorable Discharge, and a Dishonorable Discharge.

I would guess that the soldier in question received a General Discharge, which he can upgrade to Honorable in six months. Soldiers who are discharged for drugs, etc. receive a General Discharge.

So the short answer to your question is that I don't think the soldier deserved even a General Discharge based upon the facts in the article...however, I think that there were other things he did that probably merited a General Discharge.

[Raiders Army]

Forgot to add...I chaptered two crazy people out of my battery for being crazy. They both received General discharges. It's a long story, but they were not crazy. They just pretended they were to get out of their enlistments.

[Groundhog]

Originally Posted by Raiders Army

Forgot to add...I chaptered two crazy people out of my battery for being crazy. They both received General discharges. It's a long story, but they were not crazy. They just pretended they were to get out of their enlistments.

Corporal Klinger must be rolling in his grave.

[Shepp]

Originally Posted by Mustang

Possible that she showed up, expressed her desire to get out and they put her in a holdover company.

The guys that couldn't hack it in the Air Force they usually got rid of pretty quick, but wouldn't doubt the Army was slower.

When I went to basic training there was a female that left the MEPS station for the same post. We ended up in different units but during the one of the last couple of weeks I was in training I saw her. She was in civilian clothes and was going home because she decided that the military wasn't for her. It took her almost as long to get out as it took me to complete my training.

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by Shepp

When I went to basic training there was a female that left the MEPS station for the same post. We ended up in different units but during the one of the last couple of weeks I was in training I saw her. She was in civilian clothes and was going home because she decided that the military wasn't for her. It took her almost as long to get out as it took me to complete my training.

I knew people like this, too. I like that they do it on purpose in a way, because it forces you to think about what you've done. Or people who got pregnant in tech school and who opted to discharge rather than stay in. I always thought the stuff was strange and didn't envy them at all. Meh.

[Young Drachma]

If a person is kicked out of the military with less than 6 months (or it might be more) time-in-service, they get an entry-level separation, usually citing "failure to adapt to military life" and it's basically as if they were never there at all. I know a girl who got discharged that way after she basically caused a ton of hassles in the unit after arriving at her first duty station.

That chick in this story won't get that, but would've had just hung around.

An entry level separation is available only if discharge processing is initiated by the command while you are in entry level status. Active duty servicemembers are in entry level status during the first 180 days of continuous active military service

Seems silly to get a bunch of Article 15s before getting kicked out, but..people seem to think that's the best idea before getting sent home and being embarrassed. But whatever worked for them, I guess. That Honorable Discharge made me feel good when I got done.

[BishopMVP]

I actually just got off the phone with my friend who came back from Marine OCS. He decided early on he didn't like it, but went through the channels, fulfilled the required 4 weeks and came home no problem, even getting paid for the time he was there. Thought about sticking out the 10 weeks and declining the commission, but didn't see things changing.

He also said the PT was a joke. I worked out with him before so he hit the 18min 3 mile/20 pull-ups/(the sit-ups are a joke anyway), but he said they had guys with pot bellies and who couldn't do more than 5 pull-ups sticking around. Maybe it was just that he only did the first 4 weeks, but he said there was little stuff on leadership or learning how to be effective and ridiculous amounts of drill at 4am, "Do this in a minute!" learn to follow orders bs. Didn't help in his opinion that most of the other guys there were complete straight-edge, wouldn't make jokes or laugh at them.

Either way, more evidence that if you don't want to be there and you go through the right channels, they aren't going to keep you against your will.