What Better?? Rocky's Opponents

[Dr. Sak]

On WGN they have been showing one Rocky Movie a day. Although if asked, I pretend that Rocky V does not exist, but for this poll, I'll let it slide. I have had this debate with my friends at the bar so I am going to ask the members of FOFC...

Besides Rocky, which opponent do you think was the toughest in their prime?

Initially I was going to go with Ivan Drago, mainly cause he was juiced up and beat Apollo Creed to death. But I think Clubber Lang was one bad ass mother fucker. I think he would've stood toe to toe with Drago and won.

[MikeVic]

Drago.

[Butter]

Mason "The Line" Dixon? Seriously?

[ISiddiqui]

Drago killed Apollo man!

[cubboyroy1826]

Drago for sure. Lang was tough but had no stamina and only had the big punch. Drago had the big punch as well as the superior training, stamina, and of course Brigette Nielsen (when she looked good).

[Dr. Sak]

Originally Posted by cubboyroy1826

Drago for sure. Lang was tough but had no stamina and only had the big punch. Drago had the big punch as well as the superior training, stamina, and of course Brigette Nielsen (when she looked good).

"You think you are so good...and we are so berry berry bad."

The only thing berry berry bad was her russian accent.

[Swaggs]

Trout McCockerson is a close second, but my vote goes to Drago.

[spleen1015]

Fuck that. Drago's ability was artificial.

Apollo Creed all the way.

[st.cronin]

Drago wouldn't have lost if he hadn't had the home field advantage yanked out from under him.

[Dr. Sak]

Look at Rocky after his first fight with Clubber. He looks worse in that fight than all the other combined, and that was only 3 rounds.

[VPI97]

Clubber by a knockout.

[spleen1015]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

Drago wouldn't have lost if he hadn't had the home field advantage yanked out from under him.

He never would have been in the ring if he wasn't juiced!

[st.cronin]

Hey, Rocky was juiced, too.

[gottimd]

I don't even remember Spider Rico from the first one. I voted Drago, might've been artificial, but still the toughest. Clubber was all talk, he was strong but not on the same level as Drago.

I crush you.

[Noop]

The Russian made me believe as a kid Rocky had no chance. I remember cheering when Rocky won like it was a real fight.

[Raiders Army]

This is easy. Apollo was the only one that beat Rocky.

[Raiders Army]

dola, and Mason Dixon doesn't count either.

[Cringer]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Drago killed Apollo man!

Apollo wasn't in his prime then, doesn't count.

[hukarez]

I'm torn between Lang and Drago.

I recall watching Rocky 3 numerous times on Beta, and could've recalled that he went up against Lang more than once before finally winning one out?

Of course, Drago was always intimidating too, and he was He-Man...

Oh hell. I wish there was a 'Thunderlips' option to make this easier.

[sabotai]

Originally Posted by Raiders Army

This is easy. Apollo was the only one that beat Rocky.

You need to watch Rocky 3 again (or for the first time).

I went with Apollo Creed. By the time he fought Drago, he was like Ali in 1980. Creed in his prime beats Drago.

[Raiders Army]

Originally Posted by sabotai

You need to watch Rocky 3 again (or for the first time).

I went with Apollo Creed. By the time he fought Drago, he was like Ali in 1980. Creed in his prime beats Drago.

Doh, you're right of course. I don't really count the "warm-up" fights.

Yeah, that's it...

[Sun Tzu]

Creed without a doubt. I don't see why this is even an arguement. Sure Drago was strong, but he was on the juice...and even then Rocky beat him. Apollo beat Rocky in his prime, in case you had forgotten. Clubber beat Rocky, but if Mickey was my manager and he was dying, I think my mind would be elsewhere too.

The King of Sting
The Master of Disaster
The Count of Monte Fisto
The Dancing Destroyer
The One and Only...Apollo Creed

[spleen1015]

Apollo never beat Rocky. Their first bout was a draw and the second, Rocky beat him.

"Yo Adrian! I DID IT!"

[larrymcg421]

Originally Posted by spleen1015

Apollo never beat Rocky. Their first bout was a draw and the second, Rocky beat him.

"Yo Adrian! I DID IT!"

What movie did you watch? Apollo won by decision in the first match. Rocky "DID IT!" because he went the distance, which no one thought he had a chance of doing.

[Logan]

Someone needs to take spleen's Man Card.

[Crim]

Originally Posted by Sun Tzu

Creed without a doubt. I don't see why this is even an arguement. Sure Drago was strong, but he was on the juice...and even then Rocky beat him. Apollo beat Rocky in his prime, in case you had forgotten. Clubber beat Rocky, but if Mickey was my manager and he was dying, I think my mind would be elsewhere too.

The King of Sting
The Master of Disaster
The Count of Monte Fisto
The Dancing Destroyer
The One and Only...Apollo Creed

My personal favorite... I still crack up a little bit when I hear that.

[Crim]

Originally Posted by spleen1015

Apollo Creed all the way.

Dammit, people! Listen to spleen1015!!! He speaks TRUUUUTH!!!11!

[Vegas Vic]

Apollo Creed was presumably slightly past his prime in the first Rocky movie, so I would tend to think that he would be the most formidable of the group when he was at his peak. He definitely had the best boxing skills.

Dixon (who was portrayed masterfully by Antonio Tarver) was undefeated, but he had never really faced a serious challenge, as this poignant exchange with his old trainer demonstrates:



One thing I really liked about this movie was the depth in Dixon's development as a character, unlike the caricatures that Rocky fought in the previous movies. I got the feeling that the champ was a real person, struggling with self respect and recognition issues.

[Sun Tzu]

Rocky didn't actually say the famous line "Yo Adrianne...I DID IT!!!" until right after Creed/Balboa II when he won the belt, and he was holding it over his head.

Old Rocko definetely did go the distance in their first meeting though, and that's all that mattered to him...

'Cause I was thinkin', it really don't matter if I lose this fight. It really don't matter if this guy opens my head, either. 'Cause all I wanna do is go the distance. Nobody's ever gone the distance with Creed, and if I can go that distance, you see, and that bell rings and I'm still standin', I'm gonna know for the first time in my life, see, that I weren't just another bum from the neighborhood.

[fantom1979]

Drago killed Creed... nuff said.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by hukarez

I recall watching Rocky 3 numerous times on Beta

Just bolded for emphasis...

SI

[RendeR]

"I must Brrrrreeak You"

nuff said, Drago was a monster. he'd have wiped the floor with everyone in that list.

He nearly did it to Rocky too, but Rocky is too stubborn and too stupid to give up =)

[Grammaticus]

Drago

The punch meter says it all!

[BYU 14]

Gotta go with Clubber for the mean streak

[Axxon]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

Just bolded for emphasis...

SI

Yeah, I know and it was an entirely different movie once it went GOLD.

As for the poll I went with Drago. We'll never know how Creed was in his prime. All we got to see was him in his "cherry picking opponents" days and we don't know what level of competition he faced in his prime.

Drago, we know what he was in his prime and he's a monster. That's why I picked him but I think my mind is about split between the two exactly where the poll itself is so that's really good.

[14ers]

This is not even a close one. Clubber Lang beat the living crap out of Rocky in their first fight. It wasn't even close.


Then Clubber went all Hollywood and lost his Eye of the Tiger and he beat himself the next fight.

[Antmeister]

Apollo is the toughest.

Past-his-prime Apollo beats Rocky.
Rocky finally beats more-past-his-prime Apollo.
Clubber Lang beats Rocky Balboa then loses to Rocky is the same film.
Ivan Drago kills way-past-his prime-Apollo, but still loses to past-his-prime Rocky.

The way I see it, Rocky's toughest opponent would have been Apollo since he didn't defeat him in the first movie when he was in the latter stages of his career. Ivan Drago basically beat up on two retired old guys and lost to one of them.

[Axxon]

Originally Posted by Antmeister

Apollo is the toughest.

Past-his-prime Apollo beats Rocky.
Rocky finally beats more-past-his-prime Apollo.
Clubber Lang beats Rocky Balboa then loses to Rocky is the same film.
Ivan Drago kills way-past-his prime-Apollo, but still loses to past-his-prime Rocky.

The way I see it, Rocky's toughest opponent would have been Apollo since he didn't defeat him in the first movie when he was in the latter stages of his career. Ivan Drago basically beat up on two retired old guys and lost to one of them.

I'm curious, and I'm a Creed fan but when did he ever beat a strong opponent in the movies? He beat a club fighter Rocky who was hand picked as his opponent because he would lose. He lost to him the second time they fought and Drago killed him.

What do we have, except the hype from Creed's camp to consider Creed in his prime that formidable? We have no clue since we were never shown this. Why does everyone think he had to be that great since we entered the scene where he wasn't that good IMHO and was looking for a can to beat up on.

Maybe he fought at a time when the division wasn't that strong. He could have been a Larry Holmes. Now, nothing against Holmes but the level of competition he had vs Ali for example was relatively poor unless you consider Clooney and Shavers equal to Frazier and Foreman. His legacy is the product of his time not vice versa. Maybe Creed was the same way???


PS, no offense meant to Holmes, he was indeed a champion and defended the belt well and with class but his level of opposition wasn't that great. Not his fault.

[larrymcg421]

Originally Posted by Axxon

I'm curious, and I'm a Creed fan but when did he ever beat a strong opponent in the movies? He beat a club fighter Rocky who was hand picked as his opponent because he would lose. He lost to him the second time they fought and Drago killed him.

I don't think it's fair to say Apollo hand-picked Rocky because he would lose. Apollo was set to fight #1 contender Mac Lee Green, who had to drop out due to injury. Apollo then looked to fight other top ranked contenders, but they all refused. It wasn't until after that when he looked for Rocky. And the main reason he picked him wasn't for an easy victory (if that was the case, he would've heeded his manager's advice and not picked a southpaw), it was because he knew Rocky "The Italian Stallion" Balboa would be a huge draw.

What do we have, except the hype from Creed's camp to consider Creed in his prime that formidable? We have no clue since we were never shown this. Why does everyone think he had to be that great since we entered the scene where he wasn't that good IMHO and was looking for a can to beat up on.

What we do know about Apollo is that nobody had gone the distance with him. That's a pretty amazing feat, even if the division was weak at the time. Even Tyson can't claim that, as guys like James Tillis, Mitch Green, James Smith, Tony Tucker, and Razor Ruddock all took him the distance in his prime.

I think Apollo is definitely the best of Rocky's opponents. Sure, Drago killed him, but Creed was 39 at the time. We saw Mr. Roid Man's endurance issues against Rocky. Well, Apollo was even quicker and more athletic than Rocky. In his prime he would've wore Drago out. As for Lang, he wouldn't have been able to get under Apollo's skin like he did to Rocky.

[Eilim]

Ok, we need someone with Titlebout boxing to settle this for us.

[Grammaticus]

Originally Posted by Eilim

Ok, we need someone with Titlebout boxing to settle this for us.

Do you have cards for them?

[jbergey22]

I voted for Creed...Lang and Drago were all hype... Gunn couldnt hold any of their jockstraps.

Creed actually had some credentials going into his matches with Rocky.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by Grammaticus

Do you have cards for them?

Drago = Max Baer with no stamina
Langer= past his prime Tyson(good hitting power, no defense or tactical ability)
Creed=Holyfield

http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/tb/fighter.php

[Eilim]

Originally Posted by Grammaticus

Do you have cards for them?

Not anymore, and the Cornerworks site is down. I know there used to be a set of "Rocky" boxers that supposedly contained all fighters from the movies.

[Raiders Army]

You don't get a lot of nicknames by beating jobbers.

[Dr. Sak]

Originally Posted by Raiders Army

You don't get a lot of nicknames by beating jobbers.

The Master of Disaster, The King of Sting, The Dancing Destroyer, and The Count of Monte Fisto.

[Schmidty]

Originally Posted by Raiders Army

This is easy. Apollo was the only one that beat Rocky.

QFT


Edit: Oops.

[Vinatieri for Prez]

Originally Posted by Antmeister

Apollo is the toughest.

Past-his-prime Apollo beats Rocky.
Rocky finally beats more-past-his-prime Apollo.
Clubber Lang beats Rocky Balboa then loses to Rocky is the same film.
Ivan Drago kills way-past-his prime-Apollo, but still loses to past-his-prime Rocky.

The way I see it, Rocky's toughest opponent would have been Apollo since he didn't defeat him in the first movie when he was in the latter stages of his career. Ivan Drago basically beat up on two retired old guys and lost to one of them.

Yep.

And let's not forget that while he was fighting, but before he died, Apollo was also kicking Craig T. Nelson's ass under his other lesser known nickname, "Action Jackson."